I saw no mention of a couple. The way this article reads.. I don't see a single mention of a dad. Just a fairly young woman living with her parents and now 14 fricking kids...

a family acquaintance told CBS' "The Early Show" on Thursday that the mother is "fairly young" and lives with her parents and her six children, including twins.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible of people to have so many kids. Children deserve individual attention from their parents and with that many it seems there is no way they can get that much of their mom's much needed attention without always having to share it or be interrupted.

I know I sound mean but I think it's just stupid and irresponsible.

That being said, she's allowed to have as many as she wants. If she can make it work (and some people have) good on her. Good luck to her and her over-sized family.

They will not have any problem paying for the kids as they will get all the dough they need from corporations that sell baby products for endorsments.

The better question is why is a woman who has 6 kids taking fertility drugs?

Wow! She has 6 other children and now 8! and I read that she is young as well?!

I don't hear if she is married? but she lives with her parents.

If I was her I would let the media in on this miracle birth, they also offer money and companies offer donations on products!

May God Bless her and her family!

Though I agree with you skipster, you can't blame Obama - yet. Her pregnancy started BEFORE the elections. This kind of crap has been going on for years! It's bc of all of our idiot politicians AND the narcissistic judges who don't allow them to do what's right the few times they try.

easy money from the go'ment, maybe...........

I am sure they will get a TV show just like the idiots with 18 kids. WHY, with six children under her belt, did this woman go to a fertility clinic? For the donations that are already puoring in.

At the end of the day, when the Mother, (Father out of the Picture),Grandparents, and 14 are at home, we, as taxpayers, will be footing the bill. It is her "reproductive right" to continue to go for hormone injections. Our Medicaid and Welfare system allows this to exist--from the injections, pre-natal care, healthcare, WIC.

First of all Why do you need more kids when you already have 6. I understand they were not expecting 8 but why even try for more. And to answer your question on who is going to take care of they kids... We are !!!!! If they owned a farm I wpould say it for child labor as in the old days. It's just to bacd for the kids. No one can kep up with this many kids and truly guide them thru life. I don't care how good the parents are..

My thoughts exactly. I too have seen nothing regarding Dad in the picture. Just Mom and 6 kids and grandparents. What I completely do not understand is how this woman was a candidate for fertilization treatments. I thought they were for women who could not conceive. Why would someone really want 1 or 2 or even 3 more when you already have 6? And if she's single, I really don't get it. Can someone really be this greedy to think they'll get a tv show and donations etc to raise their kids? This is insain!!

Dad is in Iraq

Apparently the mother or her parents do not have good sense. Because this story has now had such publicity there will be many who feel sorry for this family. Regardless of their nationality it seems rediculous that ANY government agency should help them care of those kids. The really sad thing is the children had nothing to do with the assanine way they entered this world. I will be sickened to hear later that some unfortunate event has befallen the family. I'm sure they know better but some how this to be their meal ticket.....will they sell the babies? Since grandfather is so adamant the press will never know where they really live (today's news said a 3 BR home) there is a distinct possibilty they could skip and no one will ever know.

Tempest19: There is a dad - he is a contractor and is set to return to Iraq (read this in a CNN aritcle). They had 6 kids and she was taking fertility drugs!!!! Are you kidding me! What on earth possessed them to want more?

as much as i hate to say this she defrauded the system by using student loan monies to pay for fertility treatments! she defrauded the medical community by getting the drugs when she has 6 kids at home already! she's unmarried and living in a small house with her parents and 6 kids so you know she is on welfare! what kind of check will she get for 14 kids??? wow she may not need TLC to give her a tv show! and her father says they have a big house waiting for them somewhere which must mean they are sponging already unless of course they got a new section 8 house, lol. no one will be able to find them in their new house (how mature the grandfather sounds)...sure we will. the stench of dirty diapers will give them away!

this is appalling!

what a MORAL OUTRAGE. no mention of a husband , just grandparents. I an insensed, that as a new adoptive parent, I had to provide to the court system/social services my ability to financially affford my child. WHY is it so different for birth parents. Should they all provide such a financial statement????

Just what was she thinking on having more children????? Can she really financially afford to take care of all 14 chidren??? NO IT WILL BE UP TO THE TAXPAYERS. Corporations will only give supplies for a limited time - maybe 6 months. SHAME of the fertility physicians for allowing this procedure to take place. And SHAME on this mother for being SELFISH on putting her health and welfare at risk for herself and those babies.

Somebody suggested that she should write a book. I would not buy a book from this woman, what an idiot.

Happy and sad at same time. Happy the chidren were born alive and seem to be doing well. Sad, that a person such as this, has such an immoral disregard for the lives of her existing children and now eight more! Surely there seems to be a mental capacity problem here.

wHAT dR. would give a woman who already has six kids, fertility drugs?

While I had already thought this woman was selfish and irresponsible to bring eight babies into the world who may be facing a myriad of health problems (NEC, respiratory problems, digestive problems, cerebral palsy, vision problems, developmental problems, the list goes on and on), now we find out that she is already the mother of six other children. This woman had better be a millionaire or she is going to be the biggest parasite on the American taxpayer that we have ever seen. Besides turning her other children's lives into a national freakshow, she has irresponsibly and selfishly put her own desires above the welfare (a term she may be all to familiar with) of her family. I can only imagine how this must gaul those couples who go through repeated attempts at fertility treatments just to have one healthy child and some never do. I am usually a "live and let live" kind of person, but this woman has put her own needs ahead of 14 small lives with her selfish and irresponsible attention seeking behavior. Shame on her. Just sayin'

Osny - come corporations actually commit to give diapers, formula, clothing to these type of people until the children are of a certain age, ie potty trained or school age. Some also agree to pay for their college education. I believe John and Kate mentioned who donated diapers to them and the kids are always wearing GAP or Gymboree. I am sure that is donated also, since those clothes are very expensive for 8 kids. So I am sure she won't have to worry about it for a while.

The whole situation is ludicrous. I can't imagine why a person who already has SIX!!!!! children wants more. She should watch her back because I can imagine that some government child welfare agency will be checking to make sure all of the 14 children are being well cared for.

osny02004

congratulations on your adoption :)

Tom343 - what generation are you from? Back when my parents' parents had big families: 1) many were farming families 2) THEY DID NOT LIVE OFF THE GOV'T 3)medical costs were not as atocious 4) the death rate was higher.

If the kids' father is going to Iraq, he may not want to come home!

If he is, I wonder if the grandparents are his parents and everyone is trying to make sure there are as many "reminders" as possible in case he doesn't come home. Were the first 6 kids his?

What doctor would give her fertility treatments with 6 children? DR. Mandhir Gupta who was born in India, thats who.... Lives at her parents etc.... more welfare fraud. People should get permission to have kids. I know it's Logans Runnish but you should have to prove you can support kids before you have them.

Okay you are not being mean at all, I have a hard enough time with 4 kids. I mean what heck I am so sick of the duggarts, john and kate plus 8 and now this one who quote "didnt realise that she would have so many at once" did she not hear the fertility speacilist whom warn of such things? I mean come on, look at the grandfather who says they have a huge house and no one will ever find them, does that sound like a hidden compound maybe? And wheres the father is there one nothing has been said about it. I dont see this as a miracle I see this as a woman who had 6 kids alread and for some reason maybe she was licking windows too long and thought hey maybe I will add 8 more kids that she really didnt need. What is wrong with these people, I am all for people having kids with help if they cant have them on there own but come on, to repeatedly do it when so many cant even have 1, I see this a selfish move on so many levels. I say good luck on remembering the kids names without name tags and making them feel individually special, mornons. Even the brady bunch would say give it a break people!

I love how people jump to conclusions about the race...

my boyfriend and i were discussing this mess just last night... yes it was more of a thing back in the day to have large families because everyone did help out on the farm, etc. but that isn't necessary anymore so please dont' use that excuse. this planet is horribly over populated, our resources are being consumed much too quickly, and the fact that she already had 6 kids and then had fertility treatments to have more just makes me ill. and i hope she doesn't get a lot of donations and help just because she was able to pop out a lot of kids. good for her. there are many people who can't afford their children (that's a whole other subject) but you don't see them getting donations and whatnot. this whole thing is just a mess and i could go on and on about how wrong it all is.

I think the old saying about welfare mommas may well apply "one more child and I can retire" Well, there was no mention of a husband and she no doubt thinks that she'll be getting all sorts of assistance for this litter.

Irresponsiblity does not go by occupation, color, or race - who in is this time can support 6 children without living in their parents' home? Add 8 more and you have total foolishness. She had 6 why did she need to take fertility drugs for more? The whol invetro process is extremely expensive and if her husband is military that means we, the taxpayers, paid for that and will pay for all their insurance and hospital bills(for 46 delivery room doctors and nurses plus 2 more months in ICU/nursery care for 8 -)

I totally laugh at the idea her father has about "you won't find us" - they had a license plate on their van, they have neighbors who will spill that information for a few dollars, they will be followed, .........don't kid yourself gramps, you are not going to get any privacy.

My only hope is that the mother won't get a bunch of free stuff from baby companies or all the money and donations from the public or companies. She wanted this to happen so let them support them all by themselves. They knew good and well that people all this country are struggling to keep their homes, jobs, and feed their families before she took the first fertility treatment.

Isn't invitro expensive to begin with? How was this affordable, especially when you are burdened with the financial responsibility of 6 other children to begin with? What idiot doctor approved this procedure? I hope she is not expecting the taxpayers to bail her out...oh that's right...we only do that with lending instituions, not people who should be institutionalized. I will not buy a book or watch any reality show to support this kind of subversive planning of underlying greed. That is what this is. But apparently, that is what is driving this sick country. Wow...My mind is going into overload with what people won't do for money....destroy children, destroy a country, destroy the world.

"Parents"??? There are no "parents" here, there has been no mention of a father to any of these children, as the young woman lives with her parents. I'm not sure she's ever going to be able to see her children because she's going to have to work her life away to pay for them all!! While I can empathize with the heartache of having to choose to reduce the number of embryos, who is she to say that the rest of the world must now help financially take care of her and her children? I find it selfish. Adoption is another option, there are SO MANY coulpes who can't even have ONE healthy child, never mind 14!!!!! This woman is almost as crazy as the Duggar lady!

Shame on medicine for allowing this, shame on the government for helping take care of it, and shame onher and her family for being so selfish! I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a alterior reason why this "young" girl has had so many children.....

My question is what doctor would provide fertility treatments for a woman with 6 kids? That sounds like both medical and moral malpractice if you ask me!

Wait a minute! I work for Welfare and I can definitely tell you this kind of stuff is happening all over. The costs are astronomical to this country. Illegals and non-working citizens are absolutely draining our economy. More than likely she is married or baby's daddy (daddies) is/are in the picture. It's just that "they" say they are separated or daddy is unknown, so the taypayers will shoulder the financial burden. Do the math, each individual gets $176 in food stamps times 15 = $2640 per month. She gets WIC - so free diapers, formula, etc. Someone will "feel sorry" for her and give her a house, furnishings, cars (or in this case a bus), free gas. Publicity! That's when daddy will appear. Whadda ya know? How was she able to afford the fertility drugs? They are not cheap. What irresponsible doctor would give her fertility drugs when she is obviously not infertile. No wonder our economy is in the tank and the states are going broke. What's going to happen when all these Welfare babies start multiplying? Who's going to be working. I know this is a controversial statement, but I see it so much every day and am just being realistic, but we are just beginning to see the affects; but every state should pay for one baby - THAT's IT! If you are stupid enough to keep having babies you can't afford, you are on your own. If you can't afford them, there are couples out there who would love to have a baby and would be willing to adopt them.

Someone correct if I'm wrong, but didn't Clinton put into law that welfare mom's could only be on the dole for two years during which time she had to find the means to support herself and her children? It was supposed to end the revolving door of generational welfare.

Answer to Karma-667522. Re 2-yr limit. Cash benefits are for 5 years. But indefinite if there is a "hardship". Food stamps no limit. Medical no limit. If mom is a non-citizenship their is no limit on cash for each child (do the math on that one, the state where I work is $389 per child). If mom receives SSI (social security welfare payment currently at $674) no limit on years she can receive cash for each child. Any child declared "disabled" they too will get SSI of $674 for the rest of their lives. Also, the limit of 5 years is determined in each state. Some are 5-year consecutive, my state is 2-years on, 1 year off, 2 years on, 1 year off. California, where she lives, is called a cash-out state, which means not only will she get $176 per person but additional cash for food. I do not know how much they pay, but it is quite a bit more. California's 5-year limit is meaningless, but then they have what they call Cal Works - additional cash. Now you see why California is BROKE!

is it just me or can this situation be equated (for lack of a better analogy) a cat hoarder?

It's like she is having kids just to satisfy her own needs, while she forgets about the needs of the kids she already has. ( unlike others on here, I don't know if the woman is rich or poor, I'm not going to make assumtions that she is on welfare. She obviously had enough money to go to a fertility clinic to begin with.)

The kids maybe able to be taken care of materially but what about emotionally? The other six kids will probably suffer from lack of attention while the mother grandparents (and maybe father and other relatives and friends) are catering to the new 8 kids. The new kids are already at higher risk for other ailments, due to being premature, and if that happens than more attention will be diverted away from the other kids.

What happens when they go to grade school? middle school? Will everyone get the same attention when it comes to homework?

what about high school? college? Was that even thought about?

IMHO, this woman is irresponsible and the sad part is the children are the ones that are going to have to pay for their mother's actions.

write a book? that is exactly what she is going to do - these kids are her cash calves! she is going to pimp them out for ever dollar she can get. DISGUSTING!

Thanks Deborah. Not only do we need regulations attached to our cooperate world but obviously our reproductive one as well!

For all you people that are talking dung about these kids and parents, it's none of your business to question it. I bet they make good parents to ALL of their kids which is a hell of a lot more than I can say about a lot of parents living in America. It's none of our business at all and I hope the best for them. Some of my friends and people that I know only have one or two kids and they make lousy parents. If you can't deal with kids then clip your stuff. What were they supposed to do? Selectively abort some of the babies. How many people would that piss off? Probably the same ones that are bashing them now. Get a life.

Why would a "young" mother of 6 other children already living with grandparents, want or need fertility treatments to conceive more????? The fertility clinic or doc who agreed to treat this pt is an idiot. While it's not their job to police how many children a woman has, he/she can refuse to treat the pt if they seem psychologically off base and ill prepared. Additionally, who implants 8 embryos with today's successuful IVF treatments? What about 2 or 3 to help prevent octuplets!!?? Sure, some of the embryos may have split into twins or trips but that is quite rare and hasn't been reported in this case. The appropriateness of this whole situation reeks of irresponsible medicine and bad parental judgement. This mother and babies could have died. They are still not out of the woods yet.

"What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed," Suleman told the Times. "That is a very painful thing."

Painful? You can't love something you don't know...unless she "loved" the man she might have had a fling with which spawned all her children, if maybe it was more men who knows. But for one thing, all mammals look the same during an embryo stage, a blob, are you telling me because of her misguided mindset for more children when she already has 6 that she can't let go of an embryo? I know for those anti abortion people that they think an embryo is life and yadda yadda, well spare me the talk, if you can't save the animals going extinct in our world then the anti abortion claims are all hot air.

Still though, the kids are here, I hope she gets to work and pays for all the diapers and medical checkups and be a real woman and care for her children herself and not live off of welfare. Best of luck to her, she's going to need it.

This is for D.J. Ellender: How dare you chastise and malign this woman's race? First of all, she is not BLACK like you would stereotypical think, like most of your racist ilk!!! You also do not know what kind of money she will be receiving! Whites are not the only people who pay taxes. Blacks, latino's, Indians etc,. pay taxes as well!How come you are not chastising the white couples who in the past few years, have underwent fertility treatments, and gave birth to a liter of children? Why is this fine for whites and not any other ethnic group? It is amazing how bigots like yourself, have selective amnesia, and rules for yourself and your race of inbreds hillbilly whites who bred multitudes of children and cannot afford them!

I do not in any way agree with or condone DJ's comments. However, do you really think the best way to get your point across about the horrific nature of his comments is to insult white people? Thats just as racist as what DJ said.

From what I understand (from someone claiming to be a neighbor who contacted a reputable talk radio station here in LA on Tuesday) the fertility treatment was done in Mexico (which would explain why she showed up at Kaiser already pregnant), the other 6 kids were also the results of fertility treatments and/or artificial insemination, and there are no dads. Apparently she is already on public assistance, but I don't recall the details. According to the neighbor, the woman is trying to achieve some sort of record.

IMO if someone wants 14 kids, then it's really no one else's business.....until they choose to involve other people, such as the tax-payers. If they need to take even one cent of tax money, gov't assistance, or charity to raise those their kids then they shouldn't be having them! It's time we stop rewarding selfish and irresponsible behavior with our tax money. I really wonder how many people would think twice about popping out more mouths to feed if they knew the government was not going to pay the bills.

Problem is, they are not a couple. She lives with her parents...

But for one thing, all mammals look the same during an embryo stage, a blob, are you telling me because of her misguided mindset for more children when she already has 6 that she can't let go of an embryo? I know for those anti abortion people that they think an embryo is life and yadda yadda, well spare me the talk, if you can't save the animals going extinct in our world then the anti abortion claims are all hot air.

Yes, there are those of us who believe that the baby's DNA indicates it is a HUMAN, not some animal, and as such, believe it is taking the life of that unborn child. And what in the world does that have to do with an animal species going extinct? It's not as if pro-lifers are out in force, wiping out species around the globe. Being committed to protecting the life of unborn humans doesn't mean we all want other creatures to die. Apples and oranges.

I believe this is very irresponsible. Who in their right mind seeks fertility treatments when you already have 6 kids that you are not caring for on your own? I certainly hope these children are not some part of a bigger plot to be exploited.

I am a mother of 17 month old twins, mine were free as nature intended. The state and federal government have no help for families who are not expecting to have multiples. The cost of diapers and formula alone is staggering. But when you have multiples by choice people line up and down giving donations and money. I certainly do not wish any harm to any of her children as they did not ask to be born. However, I do not feel I should have to contribute to their welfare with tax payer money because their mother makes poor choices. What incentive is there for me and my husband not to seek state and federal aid? It is one word EDUCATION!

If every child bearing women in the states would follow suit, within 20 years we would have enough new tax payers to support the spending plan.

She's a single mother with 6 previous kids. I love kids but this is just irresponsible behavior. I agree no one can tell anyone how big your family should be, but come on !

This happens when you mess with Mother Nature!

Sad!

If every child bearing women in the states would follow suit, within 20 years we would have enough new tax payers to support the spending plan.

Not necessarily, most kids learn from their parents. If these children grow up expecting a handout like she's doing, then it only teaches them they can mooch off the system.

My question and concern is who is financially responsible for these children, the parents or tax dollars of the working class in the United States? With today's economy who on earthh can financially support a family of 14?

The Grandfather mentioned they have a huge house and that we will never know where they are. Are they moving in to the White House?

Whoever the doctor is that allowed this idiot woman to have this enhanced fertilization should not be allowed to practice anymore. I'm really tired of these talk shows/news/reality shows showing these large families like it's something really great. These people are making money, and fools out of the rest of us. I can barely afford food, can't afford medical insurance and now my tax dollars will give these people housing, food, free medical, free dental, free eye care and probably free college.

I did not see any mention of a father. Did I miss that? This woman's doctor should be banned from medicine.

The father is out of the picture, the woman is in/on Welfare, the family filed bankruptcy, she had already 6 babies, why in the heck has she to take fertility treatment.

Eventually the woman has to be known cashing her Welfare check.

This case stinks.

Each baby will require about $100,000 in care before being able to go home. The total bill will be $750,000 to $1M. She is not a member of the Kaiser Insurance system. Guess who gets to pay?

http://www.newsy.com/videos/and_then_there_were_eight/

this was an interesting story about this it brings up a good question about abortion. what do you guys think about elective abortion in such cases. Some fertility clinics take part in the practice in the case of multiples because it is seen as a health risk for the mother. Any thoughts?

No, abortion never, just tie the Fallopian of the lady when is know that she does get pregnant for the heck of it.

determined0a1 so are saying abortion is bad but eugenics is ok?

She is the pathetic POSTER CHILD "Mother" for Speaker Pelosi's cause to use stimulus dollars for birth control and condom distribution.

I am not certain there is a "father" in the traditional sense. It was reported that the 8 babies are due to invitro of 8 embryos.

According to press reports, the mother of these 14 children lives with her parents. It was reported that the grandfather of these 14 children has a contractor job in Iraq to pay for their upbringing.

I wonder about all of these. According to CNN's medical correspondent, medical experts believe the implantation of 8 embryos is dangerous and not within the guidelines of medical practice.

I feel for the kids. My mother is the oldest of 11 children, but they were not all born at the same time. She is 22 years older than the youngest.

where do i start, first to dumbrepublican abortion isnt an available method of birth control, this woman only bolsters the argument for personel responsibility. really she has six kids , lives with her parents and is taking fertility drugs? that is systematic of stupidity and irresponsibility on her part , her parents(if they knew) and the doctor for administering the drugs in the first place! now they are born they will be a burden on the state. the responsibility lies with the mother and only the mother now. and to tyler, get a grip fool, what do you think this article will bring out in the newsvine? oh no! dont be racist! you are clueless and not god. go make your kid sit in the corner and grow up.

My question is why this would not be medical malpractice. A responsible physician would not treat someone for Diabetes or Asthma or even an infection if the treatment was not necessary. So why would a doctor treat this woman for an infertility problem that obviously didn't exist given that she already had six children with twins being born just two years ago? I understand that it is not a physician's job to be the fertility police as one doctor stated, but what about the medical treatment aspect of this situation and the possible dangers that exist for both the mother and the children? There are doctors that decline to perform elective procedures every day because it is not necessary or is not in the best interest of the patient.

"this was an interesting story about this it brings up a good question about abortion. what do you guys think about elective abortion in such cases. Some fertility clinics take part in the practice in the case of multiples because it is seen as a health risk for the mother. Any thoughts?"

Yeah, I've got some. I partially blame the fertility company for inserting so many embryos at once to begin with. Think about it. In most cases (clearly not this one) a woman is desparate enough to have a baby that she goes to this clinic and pays big bucks to get invitro treatment. THEN they want to "selectively reduce" the embryos if more than one takes????? How exactly do they do this? How can they be sure they won't accidentally take all of the embryos? I mean, the point IS to have a baby, right? They only insert so many embryos to boost their statistics anyway. There are lots of problems with fertility clinics.

Having said that, she's young and already had 6 kids, why was she doing this again? My sister, who had no kids of her own, tried for over a year with in vitro (she was over 40) and ended up having a hysterectomy instead of a baby. This just doesn't square at all.

has this woman completely lost her ever loving mind to even do the fertility drugs again? no wonder the man is going to irag, i would too! i have 2 and that is plenty for me sheshh! our country is already in a financial stuggle why add to it? i mean lets asks this young absent minded woman the famous JFK quote "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"! my suggestion to her is to close down the freaking baby factory for good!!!!!

This debauchle is the height of irresponsibility, both, on the part of the physician and the mother. I believe that all women seeking infertility treatment should be required to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, this women should be referred immediately! For those of you that feel this is a gift from God, then if it truly were, there would have been no need for infertility treatments! For those that feel the government should pay, then why don't you just cough up the bucks. As far as this family having a nice big house to go to, then why aren't they there already, or do they enjoy housing 9 people in a small house? This is a ludicrous situation and it only helps to solidify the stupidity that is rampant in this country!

The simple news of octuplets made my blood boil! Why do women feel then need to stuff their bodies full of embryos like a gumball machine?! Why do they want to give birth to a litter of children?! Why do they want to overwelm themselves & families with the huge burden of so many children at once? I have twins (without drugs or any other medical intervention) and that's hard enough. I can't imagine 8 at all, let alone 8 at once! That was bad enough when I heard about these octuplets; then I heard she already had 6 other kids! OH MY LORD! What was this woman thinking?! And there is NO mention of a father to these kids. Aparently she's on her own. OR NO WAIT; not on her own, she lives with her parents. Even more irresponsible! You already have 6 kids, you live with your folks & you decide to have more kids! DISGUSTING! And you just know she's gonna get tons of free stuff from corporations just for giving birth to her litter of children! She better not be on welfare! That would push me over the edge!

this is to all who think this is a miracle. IVF and fertility drugs are purely science. there is no miracle involved. The miracle will be when this mother actually pays for the hospital bill and the upbringing of all her children w/o the help of the taxpayer!

robot,

Yes, I don't believe in abortion. However, indeed this woman should have her Fallopian tied and when she becomes a more responsible mother and able to feed her 14 babies and not to be in Welfare, maybe she can have more babies at her own expenses.

she says her husband is in iraq....the neighbors say SHE IS SINGLE

she better NOT get any social service help. i'm not paying for this kind of irresponsibility (or any other).

she's also in serious need of constant monitoring. bet some of those kids aren't cared for properly as it is.

get A JOB, wench

nothing like raising kids who haven't got a shot in he ll good job, dumba**

Um, justice fleeting, you said

"She is the pathetic POSTER CHILD "Mother" for Speaker Pelosi's cause to use stimulus dollars for birth control and condom distribution. "

How so? This woman didn't use birth control at all. She's more of a poster child for the nutty anti-abortion freaks who think every one of 8 embryos should be brought to term.

I'll bet that the taxpayers will end up paying the millions of dollars needed to pay the huge hospital bills, continued specialized medical care, and other costs associated with caring and educating these 8 pre-mature babies. I think that the fertility clinic/s and fertility physicians should be sued to pay much of it if the mom or her family cannot pay. Where's the ethics and parental responsibility?

OK, is it a human being or not? You can't have it both ways. Obama's "expert" appears to be pretty confused - rightfully so.

How is it different than when a man has sex with a woman that results in an unwanted pregnancy, it is OK for her to get an abortion, but for a woman who has multiple embryos implanted but only wanted one child, it isn't OK and is called "killing?"

Obama's guy claims it all depends upon the goal - termination of a pregnancy (which is NOT killing) vs the "healthiest possible birth" (which IS killing.)

Outside the womb, does someone who is killed by another person care about the reason why or does he/she just care about getting murdered? If not, why does this logic somehow apply inside the womb?

A quote from the CNN article:

"[M. Sara] Rosenthal [bioethicist at the University of Kentucky's College of Medicine], questions the woman's capacity to make a good decision under the circumstances. Some neonatologists believe that when pregnant women are told about dangers of prematurity or have great expectations about giving birth, their judgment can be impaired, she said.

The situation raises the issue of whether a doctor ought to override a patient's wishes for the sake of saving lives, she said. Although the health care system in America gives patients autonomy in making decisions about their own bodies, when emotionally distraught, some people decide poorly, she said."
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So...again we want it both ways. A woman who really, really, really wants to have a baby, maybe multiple babies, has 'impaired judgment' but a teenage girl, who is afraid of telling her parents about her unwanted pregnancy and is worried about how having a baby at 16 will ostracize her at school and change her future, has great judgment?

This is the height of hypocrisy. The mental gymnastics abortion supporters have to go through to maintain their point of view is amazing. At no place in history has it been shown to be OK to kill another human being based on their age (just conceived), their location (the womb) or the intent of the killer (termination of an unwanted pregnancy vs health of the mother/other babies). ~ BH

dmkatt ... read the other msnbc article where Grandma speaks out. Different picture than what Grandpa has painted. This mother is 33, unmarried, and has been obsessed with having babies since her teens.

The Ms. has a personal army.

First, perhaps commentators should be more watchful because they have made statements and arguments that are unfounded- the news articles do not even address a lot of what is said in the comment sections. Please be careful about jumping to rash conclusions. Writing such arguments just results in clouding the facts and confusing readers... and defamating character, which isn't fair because she is not even here to defend herself.

I applaud this woman for not aborting any of those babies. By week 12, the baby is very little, but is fully formed. It has tiny arms, hands, fingers, feet and toes and can open and close its fists and mouth. Fingernails and toenails are beginning to develop and the external ears are formed. The beginnings of teeth are forming. The baby's reproductive organs also develop, but the baby's gender is difficult to distinguish on ultrasound. The circulatory and urinary systems are working and the liver produces bile. Eye color has developed. That is a human being. And they have a right to life too.

Perhaps some have a misunderstanding about Abortion, also known as "selective reduction", "termination of pregnancy", etc. and that is why they believe she should have used it as an option. I will list a few methods so that you can have an idea what some people want this woman and children to experience. Abortion is achieved in many different ways, and these are the medical definitions. By suction aspiration, the little developing baby is cut apart and suctioned out into a canister. By Medical Abortions, the pregnant woman is given pills (like RU486) that forces the womb to not produce nutrients, so the undeveloped baby starves, dies, and is contracted out. In Dilation & Evacuation, which is used from 12 week on, when the baby is fully formed (see above paragraph), after dilation, forceps are inserted into the womb and is used to dismember the baby by seizing a leg or arm and twisting it until it tears off and can be pulled out. This will continue until only the head remains. Finally the skull is crushed and also pulled out. The body parts must then be reassembled to ensure that the entire baby has been removed. Yes, it is tragic. And it's not the right solution to unwanted pregnancy.

Some of you are saying that she should have had that done on all or a few of those little babies, or even that the government should’ve stepped in and FORCE that, as China does. If we had access to those babies, would we go down the line and decide which little lives should be snuffed out? Should ANYONE decide which babies should be killed because its inconvenient, already has bros and sisses, or out of fear of overpopulation? I say no. "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish” (Mother Teresa)

One question: Would it bother us more if they used guns?

Elisabeth

bonepony (at post #1.30,)

Dr. Mandhir Gupta, whom you have seen in the photos and news conferences, is not a fertility specialist, he is a neonatologist. He did not get this woman pregnant, and in fact did not even meet her until she was already three months along.

His specialty is to care for very sick and premature infants. He is trying his best to help these kids, just like the high-risk OB team that handled the delivery. The medical professionals who ended up caring for this woman and her babies were all blindsided by this case, I'm sure. Someone else handled her fertility treatments.

And what does being born in India have to do with any of this? What will you say if you find out the fertility specialist responsible for this high-order multiple pregnancy was in fact a homegrown physician of European descent?

At least the grandmother has finally gained her senses and says she's informed her daughter that she will not be there to help when she gets home from the hospital. Obviously, it's not the grandmother's responsibility, however I'm sure things would have turned out differently if this woman's parent's had put their foot down years earlier about the mother taking responsibility for the children she already has.

On a side note, I can't believe the nerve of the media blairing those lights at the house at night when it's surely bedtime for the six children there! Now that would definately have me barking at them like the Grandfather did!

I too a mother of two....can't even begin to imagine this family's dynamics. More power to them.. and I'm going to assume....since they had quite a healthy family beforehand.............that money is not an issue or end goal. First of all they actually have to be able to afford the treatments that blessed them THIS time 8X over.....in addition to a pretty healthy family to start with.

While I can't begin to understand........I can say, I feel blesesd they did not selectively terminate "some" of the implanted embryos.

I am just fine with the procedure as long as as taxpayers do not have to shell out any dinero for the care of these eight new ones. I can only hope that the mom was not already receiving public assistance for her current 6, because if so that would have been very irresponsible of the clinic that gave her the intervention.

So NBC was the forst to pay $2 million? Journalistic integrity at its finest!!!!

"How selfish and irresponsible !!! The planet has close to 7 billion people and has reach a point where it cannot provide for every human beings. "

The planet's population is exploding everywhere but in the USA, which is operating at lower than replacement rate. How about cutting down on food and foreign aid to other countries? They apparently have enough to eat to explode to 20 Billion people in another 50 years.

I don't care how this woman tries to rationalize this irrational act, she needs to be hospitalized for mental illness, not interviewed as though she were a celebrity! Bringing children into the world that you can't provide for is irresponsible, and exploiting them for book and interview deals is immoral! Isn't it also supposed to be illegal to exploit children?And did I read the article right? She hurt her back in a riot? Oh brother!!! It's good that the infants are healthy, but this woman is a mental case, and there is no other up side to this story!

Adopting is wonderful! If this idiot had tried to adopt-she would have been turned down because she has no income, no stability, mental issues and is trying to solve her problems with babies.

My husband I raised our 2 kids, sent them to band camp, took them to Tai Kwon do, coached their soccer games. It was a full-time job to help with homework and answer their questions and tend to them.

They turned out great. We never asked for or received any "help" from anyone. We provided for our own children and family.

I would have a problem with 14 kids-even if this woman was an heiress who would be able to provide a home, nannies, and horses/TVs for all of them. Even Brangelina is being irresponsible to HAVE so many children.

Being a mother is not a cure for loneliness or neglect. It simply visits your maladies on your children. This woman is a nutjob. She needs meds/therapy, not babies.

I think the doctor who implanted her ought to have his license pulled. "First do no harm!" It is harmful for this woman to have babies she cannot afford-time-wise or money-wise.

It is unbelievable that any educated person would participate in this scam. And the media frenzy makes me sick. A book deal?

Purposely bringing children into the world that you know are damaged, suffering, uncared for and paid for with other people's hard work DISGUSTS me!

This is NOT good news.

Regarding the octuplet mom: Everyone's kicking around the word "irresponsible" but I disagree. She is totally, without question.....MENTALLY ILL! Everyone's overlooking that she is obsessed with having children to the point of mental illness. And, for a doctor to implant that many embryos into a mentally ill person is like letting a registered child molester adopt a child. The fault would be with the adoption agency just like the fault, in this case, is with the fertility doctor. The mom is sick and the doctor should have discerned that and protected her. Of course, he was probably looking at the $$$. Sad, sad, sad....the babies are the losers.

What "parents"? - there are no parent - this is a single mom.

I see all kinds of judgement passed here on this mother and her family without the real knowledge of facts. The media doesn't know everything but yet everyone here knows it all! Do u really think that our welfare system is going to pay for the fertilization in this country??? Before you pass out credit to yourselves about taking care of this woman by tax money and/or welfare program, know the facts first. Here in America we have babies having babies without even knowing who the fathers are and the welfare paying for it. We accept that don't we. In fact, we allow our children to go out and have sex, get pregnant with 3 and/or 4 different fathers, allow the welfare system to pay for each of them, and encourage our children not to get married "just because they are pregnant." It seems people here should clean out our own closets before we try to tell others to clean out theirs!

PI

The same father donated all the sperm - he just isn't in the picture right now.  She says when she gets her degree she can afford to take care of them.  Has she checked into the cost of childcare for 8 babies??? At $3.00 an hour x 8 x8 .  That's close to $200 /day.  Maybe her mom that raised her in such a dysfunctional home is going to provide daycare.  If she was so awful I sure wouldn't intrust my children to her.  She says she's holding the babies 45 minutes/day that's 6 hours/day.  What about attention to the other kids 14 x 45 is  a full time job!!  Can't cry over spilt milk - it should have been stopped but wasn't.  Let her deal with her decision. 

Remember if there is anything slightly wrong with these children, Parents can get some kind of social security disability. I agree the taxpayer will be footing the bill for these children and probably are for those high medical costs.

So? What's money for, anyway? Beemers? Big screen?

She may have plenty of money for breeding programs and fertility treatments, but eventually she may end up living in a shoe...

I don't think women should have children unless it happens naturally, but it's none of my business.

Ha DH she will be almost literally the old woman who lived in the shoe. Now that would make a great reality show. "The Old Woman Who Live in a Shoe Show" Build the woman a shoe house and go from there. Again, I won't watch it....just had to throw it out there. The irony.

with 14 kids, she's coming eerily close to the Dugger family who have 19!!!! Those half-breeds parade around their 19 children as if they are some freak show! It's disgusting! Plus, they say that they are self sufficent and provide everything for their kids.... Sadly, I think they must parade them around and collect money for all their interviews in order to feed and clothe them. Again, another example of irresponsible parenting.

People should mind their own business - this is a democracy and people can have as many children as they want - regardless of the circumstances! If people want the welfare system changed please do so but do not personally attack someone verbally because they have exercised their right to have a large family. A large family should be a blessing not a curse and this family should have their right to privacy! This young woman has enough to deal with - leave her alone! Anyone who wants to dictate how many children someone should have should move to a country where a dictator rules!

Concerned, yes you're right- this IS a democracy. So I vote to NOT pay for the food, clothing, diapers, medical expenses and educations for these 14 kids. Can you please tell me how I can go about getting my taxes put to better, more appropriate uses? Thanks so much!!

It's not the 14 kids' "dad" that's in Iraq....their "grandfather" is going to Iraq to earn money to help pay for raising the team...or simply to get away from all the diapers and crying that's on the way.

DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK THIS STORY IS BOGUS???

Fertility drugs are very expenxive and not covered by Insurance.

The 'mom' lives with her parents and has 6 kids , why would she be taking fertility drugs?

No name, No photos, and grandpa ED is going to hide them away....

I guess the media wants us to waste our time reading and thinking about this instead of more pressing things!

I think the whole story is MADE UP

This morning it was reported that she went to Mexico to receive the treatments.

I am all for large families as long as you the parents has the ability to care for them on your own. Where is the father of the other 6?

I agree with DH's opinion, if you can't have kids naturally than you aren't meant to get pregnant or get someone pregnant. There are enough children in the world that need parents, and IMO people who just HAVE to have a child with their own DNA are self-centered. I do not believe in boosting any body's fertility. It's just not a necessity in an overpopulated world.

I don't want to think about a case of incest or having the children for adoption and providing money.

i am not really one for large families, i dont get to worked up if you can support them yourself, but what about when they are older, especially in todays economy, do we really have 14 extra houses available, 14 more cars on the road, can we find 14 more jobs and can we afford 14 more people on unemployment, you've got 14 from this woman, 18 from the duggars and 8 from jon and kate, there is also another show on tlc that has 13 kids - thats 52 children from just 4 families, if you want that many kids why dont you adopt????? but i dont want to pay for anyone elses when i have to pay for my own, welfare should be capped for family regardless of how much you breed

"I think the whole story is MADE UP"

Wow, wouldn't that be a crack-up if it was???

"I don't think women should have children unless it happens naturally, but it's none of my business. "

I feel the same way about men's boners (Viagra), but it's none of my business either.

:)

i would image the grandparents would adopt them if the are on social security,then we can all raise them.

News just stated they are Iraqi, and of COURSE donations have started pouring in. This is NOT a "young woman" she is a bloody broodsow. I agree 100% w/jpooch00. This is SICK, SICK, SICK! Why in the name of God would she be implanted with no job, no home but with her parents. This makes no sense at all.

Free money from the government! Ain't that why they keep having more babies? Wonder how much this is costing the taxpayers?

Iraqi? Wow, anchor babies gone wild? The grandfather's surname, Suleman, usually I see spelled Suliman, but it is an Arabic name, so that makes sense. Crazy. Hope the kids get assimilated when they get to be school age, so they don't think this is normal in America.

The mother is already in Welfare.

This works like this: The more children the more money from the Welfare.

Also, the clinic that inseminated her with the litter should be shut down.

Well, maybe the mother lied about the other 6 children.

I'm guessing that it's because she's welfare trash.

I've got an idea:.. Let's boycott this story, any television shows, any movies, any book deals, any magazines that run this story. And if any companies do have the nerve to come forward to give out a bunch of freebies, let's stop buying their products. This is the most asinine event I've ever heard of!!

Embryos were implanted in her uterus.....multiple sperm donor possible for the latest eight.

Shouldn't that be reserved for couples who cannot have any children?

Why is some woman that already has 6 kids getting this procedure done?

I think she was a surrogate, we'll soon find out.

There is NO father and the question arose as to where she got the fertility drugs and HOW she paid for them. The home she lived in, prior to her parents, she walked away from it and let it go into foreclosure.

The author--or perhaps the alleged grandmother who gave the interview--has probably made a false assumption here. I highly doubt this woman was "implanted" with any embryos at all. High-order multiples like this are almost always the result of injectable fertility drugs, plus IUI (intrauterine insemination) or regular intercourse. In those procedures, you have limited control over the number of follicles produced, and little to no control over the number of sperm released. Any viable egg that makes it to a fallopian tube could potentially be fertilized, and could then implant. The Dilleys, Gosselins, Chukwus, McCaugheys, and all the other modern "litters" you have seen on TV over the years resulted from these procedures. These were not IVF pregnancies!

I doubt someone who has to live with her parents could afford IVF on her own unless she has really phenomenal health insurance coverage. The cost is about $8,000-15,000 per cycle depending on whether or not the lab and ultrasound monitoring, and drugs, are covered by insurance; the surgical procedures involved in the process are usually not covered. An IVF cycle allows strict control of the number of embryos implanted. It is also way more expensive than an IUI or "natural intercourse" cycle. I'm guessing this young woman already had 6 kids to care for from a previous relationship, but wanted to have a baby with her new boyfriend. Perhaps she found she could not conceive easily despite her past track record of good fertility. The next step for a young and previously fertile woman would usually be something far less expensive and less invasive than IVF anyway, i.e. the IUI (usually less than $2000 per cycle) or natural intercourse (free except for the drugs and lab monitoring) cycles combined with injectable fertility drugs (usually less than $800 per cycle) mentioned above.

No legitimate IVF clinic would transfer more than 4 or 5 embryos at a time, even if the patient (or biological mother who supplied the eggs in the case of a surrogate pregnancy) had been older or had a history of failed cycles. For younger moms having their first IVF cycle, they are more likely to transfer only 2 or 3 embryos. Usually, the RE (reproductive endocrinologist) will cancel an IUI cycle or recommend converting the cycle to IVF if a large number of follicles are present near the time of ovulation. Responsible patients will choose one of these two options. Irresponsible patients will go home and have sex anyway, taking their chances. I suspect this was the case here.

Once in a while, even an otherwise cautious and respectable RE will end up causing an "oops" multiple gestation like this when the last ultrasound only showed 3 to 4 follicles, but a few more surprise follicles developed and matured after the insemination was performed. I'm pretty sure this is what happened to the Gosselins, for example. Remember, the egg has less than 24 hours to "live" after ovulation, but sperm can survive for several days within the woman's body.

She may have used Clomid (very cheap--about $50 per cycle even w/o insurance) plus intercourse (free) but that is less likely as most Clomid cycles only produce 3-4 good follicles, and most Clomid-induced pregnancies are singleton or twin. I suppose if natural twinning runs in her family, she could have ovulated 4 eggs, all were fertilized (three with Y, 1 with X) and then all 4 then split into twins giving her 6 boys and 2 girls--but that is a longshot.

IVF patients also usually sign a consent form prior to treatment that states they will consider selective reduction in the case of a high-order multiple gestation. Of course, saying "sure, I'd do selective reduction" is easier when you are not yet pregnant and the possibility of high-order multiples is so remote in the first place, but it is probably much harder to go through with it once you see the heartbeats on the ultrasound.

I don't blame the fertility specialist as much as the patient in this case. IVF clinics do not want high-order multiples on their records. Those pregnancies are considered a bad outcome due to the extreme risks to both mom and babies.

Took43583,

Thank you for writing such an informative post. I, too, thought that no fertility clinic would implant that many embryos. I hope the other posters read your post for clarification.

This is such an strange situation, to have 6 kids at home and go for infertility drugs. I don't think they are looking for publicity or hand outs as it seems the grampa wants to keep this to themselves.

I can't help, as 1 of 8 siblings myself how much those 6 will have to do without (even as little as attention as I always felt my parents had to work too hard to go beyond basic attention and not the nurturing deeper love I think matters so much to have healthy people. None of us, me and my siblings, are capable of really great relationships (most of us have low self esteem issues and/or addictions of some kind) and I can't imagine that this didn't impact us. Those were the old days though were parents weren't as cognizant and just "did what they could do".

I am glad the kids are relatively healthy (for now) but damn...I don't have any children and some people can do this after 6? What a world.

Hope they're not illegal immigrants.

In this economy, I don't know anyone who can afford fourteen kids under seven years old.

What happened to common sense?

Since prior to the birth of this litter the woman produced 2 single births and 2 sets of twins, I seriously doubt she needed IVF. She probably did not need any kind of fertility drugs at all. It sounds like this was done intentionally in order to gain attention.

Well, breeding kids is not the way to gain attention, she needs to see a shrink and a good lawyer to defend her in what is going on.

If the mother in question isn't supported by Welfare then is not my business, but many copycats will be doing the same in the future.

S-621550/Sandi,

I agree, her history of many successful pregnancies makes the need for fertility drugs very questionable. I also suspect this was an IUI pregnancy, not an IVF pregnancy, as I mentioned above. I can think of several scenarios that may have led to this outcome, although only a few of them are very realistic.

A. She lied to the fertility clinic, denying that she had living children. Granted, during her physical exam they would have found evidence of prior pregnancies--if her previous kids had been born vaginally, she would have a stellate cervical os found on her speculum exam, and if by C-section she would have a healed abdominal scar--but she could have lied and said her child(ren) died after birth. They then jumped the gun and went straight to riskier and more advanced fertility treatments.

B. She was honest about her past fertility, and truly had difficulty conceiving this time. She then went through all the usual steps for a young woman with secondary infertility, moving on as each previous step failed: (1) She completed one year (or only 6 months depending on her age) of timed unmedicated intercourse, where she monitored her basal body temperature and cervical mucus at home to predict her most fertile days. (2) After the failed timed intercourse, she moved on to a couple of cycles of Clomid plus timed intercourse, although sometimes #2 is skipped entirely if the cervical mucus is found to be "hostile" under the influence of Clomid, requiring IUI to get the sperm past that barrier. (3) Clomid plus IUI. (4) Injectable fertility drugs plus timed intercourse. (5) Injectables plus IUI (which was finally successful, but led to a high-order multiple gestation.)

Much less likely given how many babies resulted: (6) after #5 failed she had injectables plus IVF, with a maverick RE who agreed to implant an insane number of embryos,

Or, bordering on science fiction: (7) A freak twinning incident where only 4 transferred embryos split into 4 sets of identical twins, or a smaller number split into sets of identical twins/triplets/quads.

C. She was acting as a surrogate for someone else, and had a maverick RE who was willing to transfer too many embryos, or a reasonable number were implanted and split as in (7) above.

D. She was actually trying to pay some of her old bills (I have read she had lost a home to foreclosure and filed for bankruptcy) by becoming an egg donor for someone else, and messed up by having sex with her boyfriend before the egg harvesting was done. Not that egg donors are paid enough to pay off a mortgage, but if she was desperate even $5000 could have motivated her to put her body through the ordeal of fertility drugs. Once she and her boyfriend realized she was pregnant, they decided to try to carry all the embryos as close to term as possible despite the huge risks to her and the babies.

E. She obtained the usual injectable drugs illegally over the internet, or by driving across the border to Mexico, and then "prescribed" them for herself without any of the necessary lab or ultrasound monitoring. If this is the case, she is very lucky she did not develop severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome, which could lead to organ failure, stroke, or even death. I hope we do not find out that this is true, because there may be a few infertile women out there who are stupid enough to try the same stunt, and will end up disabled or dead. These drugs are not to be used casually; even most OB/GYNs do not feel comfortable prescribing them or doing the required monitoring, so they refer patients to their local fertility clinic, where highly-experienced REs (who are OB/GYNs with additional fellowship training in endocrinology, embryology, etc) can take over.

F. She went to another country where regulations are very lax, had an IVF cycle where too many embryos were transferred, and then returned to the US once she was pregnant.

G. Her previous pregnancies were the result of fertility treatments, and she had leftover frozen embryos that she did not want to destroy. Due to her recent financial troubles, she could not afford the usual fee for a "frozen" cycle with a respectable RE. She then lied to her old fertility clinic and asked for the frozen embryos, claiming that she would thaw and discard them herself, having a little memorial service due to her religious beliefs. But instead, she drove the still frozen embryos directly to the office of an unscrupulous RE or OB/GYN in possession of the proper equipment and willing to complete the process "under the table" for less money. Since there would be no way to re-freeze the unused embryos after lying to clinic #1, she asked that all of them be transferred by back-alley clinic #2. Maybe there were 8, and all of them successfully implanted...maybe there were 20 and many of them failed to survive the thawing process or failed to implant (as is expected in a frozen cycle.)

The last three scenarios (E, F and G) range from highly unlikely to downright bizarre, but I include them because the group who delivered the babies did not meet her until she was already 3 moths pregnant! This makes me wonder, because a woman who becomes pregnant with multiples at an IVF clinic is usually referred straight to a high-risk OB/GYN practice, where she would have been followed closely from the very start.

All of this is purely conjecture on my part; I have no proof that any of these scenarios happened, and can only guess based on what has been reported so far in the media. There is obviously more to this story than has been revealed, and it will be interesting to find out the truth.

I stand corrected. Grandma claims this was an FET (frozen embryo transfer) cycle using leftover embryos from previous IVF cycles.

Angela Suleman said her daughter always had trouble conceiving and underwent in vitro fertilization treatments because her fallopian tubes are "plugged up." There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn't want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.

Her mother and doctors have said the woman was told she had the option to abort some of the embryos and, later, the fetuses. She refused.

Her mother said she does not believe her daughter will have any more children. "She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be."

She seems to imply that all of her daughter's pregnancies resulted from IVF or FET. Many IVF patients do not produce enough embryos to freeze in the first place, and end up doing a "fresh" stimulation cycle each time, so the fact that she had any frozen embryos available at all after 6 kids from 5 pregnancies is a hint about how good her egg quality must be. If the 8+ embryos that survived the thawing process all looked viable, why on earth did they agree to transfer so many at a time! Her proven record of successful pregnancies and her young age should have made them much more conservative. Two embryos per FET would be reasonable with this woman, and 4 embryos would be pushing things a bit, but 8 is insane.

Hard to tell how many were taken out to thaw in this case, but it would have been much better for her to have only allowed 4 to be thawed at a time, and take her chances with the (usually) smaller number that survived the thawing process. Even if she wanted to be sure none of her embryos were simply destroyed, she is young enough to have gone through several more FETs instead of gambling all her embryos at once. Re-freezing a thawed embryo is pretty rare, however, so if 8 or more survived the process perhaps she felt some religious obligation to "give them all a chance."

I had been defending the as-yet-unidentified fertility specialist(s) in this case, but now I place the blame on both the mother and the clinic. Unless we find out she has 4 sets of identical twins on her hands after a freak twinning of only 4 transferred embryos, I agree that the fertility clinic responsible for this crossed some ethical lines. If it is a clinic in the USA, there will hopefully be a review of their practices and some disciplinary action.

Child welfare will probably give her a pat on the back and then give her a ton of free taxpayer monies!

Agreed! This breeder needs to be spayed. So sad that these children are doomed before the even begin.

The Duggars have tv shows and run a '"church" from their home to avoid taxes.

The Duggars are a HUGE problem for me, they are disgusting. They think they are so special that they need to overpopulate the world with their offspring? They aren't intelligent, they have no more to offer the world than any other couple.

If you are not able to have children naturally, there is a good reason for it. Sorry, but there is!

So DH, if you can have kids and abuse/molest/murder them (as Casey Anthony is currently accused of), then it's okay? Not a good comment.

Thank you LS and Salem - I can't stand the Duggars also. They are weird on a major scale. And I hardly doubt that without all of their children they would have a TV show. Plus, then they would actually have to do something for themselves as opposed to having their children do it all for them. His wife is just a womb and the kids end up doing all of the work.

The Duggers are AWESOME...

They own large commercial properties which they lease out, and they are BOTH real estate agents.

They raise happy, polite children, who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. I don't believe they CARE what other people think of their choice. They are self sufficiant, and more power to them! (we DON'T have an over population problem in this country!)

Wow...they are WIERD...gee, they don't wear immodest clothing, and they built their house themselves. YUP, that's MY kind of wierd! We need more people in this country to be THAT wierd.

how can you say we don't have an overpopulation problem? yes there is still land out there, god forbid we leave it and dont' develop it. i dont' care what families like the Duggars do, there's no good reason to have that many kids, period. i hate the the media glorifies it too. dont' make it look all happy and sweet. yeah they're getting a lot of help and money. regular people cant' do that. especialy in today's world... do you really want to raise that many kids when the economy is tanking, violence is everywhere, etc. just a mess!

They raise happy, polite children, who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. I don't believe they CARE what other people think of their choice. They are self sufficiant, and more power to them! (we DON'T have an over population problem in this country!)

I don't care how much money they have, or how polite the children seem to be in public, the fact is its hard to give good attention to one kid (esp. in this modern society), let alone that many. Having that many kids isn't fair to the children, esp when they grow up and hit puberty. They are irresponsible, and they are thinking more about themselves and their image than they are about the psychological well being of their childern

I agree...you know...none of the older Duggar kids asked to be little Mommies and Daddies to their younger siblings. They're losing out ont heir childhoods by having to take care of all the kids and the house and the familiy business(es), all because Mom and Dad can't keep it in their pants, or don't want to! Theymaybe polite, smart, and sweet, but theyhave never known anything else besides babies,babies, and more babies- so why would they ever complain? If Mom and Dad WANT all these kids, then I think they should be theo nes to feed every feeding, change every diaper, wipe every face, every butt, kiss every scrape, and sing every lullaby, NOT the 12, 13, and 14 year olds!!

If you are not able to have children naturally, there is a good reason for it. Sorry, but there is!

Huh?? So my niece, who at age 8 had an ovary removed due to an accident, who may have trouble getting pregnant someday, is automatically an unfit candidate for motherhood?

Who are you to judge who is fit to be a parent, based on physiological issues?

Huh?? So my niece, who at age 8 had an ovary removed due to an accident, who may have trouble getting pregnant someday, is automatically an unfit candidate for motherhood? Who are you to judge who is fit to be a parent, based on physiological issues

Ever heard of natural selection? Survival of the fittest? Darwinism? The problem with humans, is that with our technology, we think we are now above nature - we have removed ourselves from the animal kingdom that we came from. If nature dictates you cannot have children, there's a reason for it.

Now that man has developed the technology, everyone now thinks it's a right to have a child(ren), instead of simply letting nature take it's course. Does anyone stop to think that perhaps some of the behavioral, medical or psychiatric problems that seem to be more and more prevalent, could possibly be linked to people having children that, once-upon-a-time, couldn't?

As far as this 'womb' is concerned, I think she's disgusting. She's obviously fertile enough to have children the old-fashioned way, and is only looking for free handouts. I won't donate a penny. I feel very sorry for all of these kids. They probably mean nothing but dollar signs to this family.

Oh, if the rumors are true that they are illegal aliens, USCIS won't care a wit about deporting her. USCIS will tell her to take the kids with her, or give them to the state. There is no compassion with immigration. If she was looking for 'anchor baby' status, there is no such thing.

none of the older Duggar kids asked to be little Mommies and Daddies to their younger siblings

And, you don't think that helping out with their siblings gives them a good work ethic?

This is why we are raising a generation of spoiled brats in this country. ME FIRST! Why do I have to do it?

Nope...their kids are learning to put OTHERS first, as it should be.

They are less woried about their precious Ipod, and MORE worried about doing the right thing.

God bless the Duggers!

how can you say we don't have an overpopulation problem

Because, we DON'T!

Whatever_41 -

I watched one of those shows about the Duggars where one of the little boys (we're talking 4) was upset because he wanted to go and help the family at the grocery store. He wasn't allowed to go because they had to pull all the seats but one out of the 14 passenger van they owned just so they could get the food home. He was crying, but not carrying on by any stretch of the imagination. The mother looked at him, offered no comfort as any real mother would and then called his "helper" over to take care of the situation. As far as I could tell from the scene, the kids were doing all the work while she watched. Apparently in her eyes, the little guy was doing something wrong. I have two children in the same age group. I could watch that a hundred times and not get what the problem was or why she couldn't bring herself to take a minute to praise his willingness to help, but tell him that he still couldn't go. It made my heart ache for him that his mother could not offer him a simple hug and explain the issue herself.

Parenting is not parenting if you are using the trickle down theory. Those children may all act politely and do their chores, but it's because they learned it from their siblings. She has said on more than one occasion that after they are weaned at a year, they are handed over to their special helper sibling. That means that sibling is feeding, washing and getting up with that child in the middle of the night. They are NOT parented by the people who made their lives. They are parented by other children by association. Four year-olds don't have the ability to reason out why there can't be enough seats in the van so that they can help, too, and 12 year olds shouldn't be left holding the bag.

I agree that having chores creates responsibility and work ethic. Being forced to raise a sibling and being stuck with the laundry, cooking and cleaning for ten other girls and boys respectively is forced labor, not chores. And it is made worse by giving them the message that God expects it of them as is intimated on that show. My grandparents came from large families with 15 children respectively. They lived on farms at a time when many women and children died in childbirth or from childhood illnesses. Some of them did. Each had a task and each helped out. None of those tasks had anything to with being almost solely responsible for raising an assigned brother or sister who came after them. And they were still allowed time to be children. I can't think of a single time I've seen those children actually play with abandon. I respect that the Duggars have found ways to care for their offspring without depending on the government (if you don't count the church/tax loophole as a sort of handout,) but come on.

However, having stated that, I do agree with the idea that they can do what they want and at least they value life. (The people on this blog who suggest abortion as population control make me physically ill. Same with the people who like China's policy. Yup. Let's all drown our newborn daughters. Better yet, let's control the population by insuring that those bloggers are permanently turned off by parenthood.) I just wish the Duggars would actually parent the children they have and provide them with household tasks proportionate to their ages.

Bringing the conversation back to this woman and her children, I think she's ill and needs treatment OR it is the most elaborate and successful bid for welfare dollars ever conceived (pun intended) by three (yes I think the grandparents are involved) people. Think about it. Get pregnant in another country and come here for the benefits. Wherever this huge home is, I'm sure it's paid for, at least in part, by Uncle Sam. According to reports, the grandparents already bankrupted themselves taking care of the first six. Where, then, would the money for this house be coming from?

Oh...and I forgot to mention the blogger (Paige 502377) who commented on getting disability for children with "any little thing wrong with them." I certainly hope she never has a child with any little thing wrong with them. She'll be singing a different tune then. I have a special needs child. I'm sure if we lived in her world, my child would have been aborted so it didn't bother her. A child with a disability is not the same as having 14 children for the money.

My only question is what RE (reproductive endocrinologist..the fertility doctor) would implant that many embryos. Protocol is normally two embryos, and maybe, just maybe three.

Perhaps the doctors should be responsible for supporting her. We certainly shouldn't be.

Please see post #5.5 above. This was probably not an IVF pregnancy, but one that resulted from fertility drugs plus insemination. Fertility doctors do not want high-order multiples to occur, and would not intentionally transfer 8 embryos.

took43583, I read and reread your post #5.5 above but I am still baffled by something. She already had 6 children. What RE in their right mind would prescribe fertility drugs for someone who has already conceived 6 children if that is indeed what happened?

This was almost positively due to fertility drugs...maybe Clomid (oral) or Pergonal (injected). Also, how would any doctor know how many kids a woman has...after the first? People lie.... And this was supposedly done in Mexico....

I am also curious about the woman's financial status, if she has a husband, AND her mental state!

Voter-in-LA,

See post #5.10, which may be a few pages back in this thread. I agree that most ethical REs would not participate in such a situation knowingly. There may have been some dishonesty on the part of the patient, doctor, or both.

Not even worth the 42 cents it would cost to mail it!

I too feel sorry for the kids. No way you can take care of 8 at once!

Probably thought "just one more" for an anchor baby, and whoops - many lives changes forever by one dumb set of circumstances. For which the taxpayer gets to pay and pay on.

It is a fact that the cost for the care of one premature birth is nine times that of a normal full term birth. Who pays for the birth and cost to care while in hospital for eight babies? This almost is too weird a story to be believed.

Those of you that have Kaiser health insurance, get ready for a big premium increase!!! Even if the mother didn't have Kaiser insurance, the hospital is probably going to take a million dollar hit.

You will not have to feel sorry for the mommie, she is going to have all the money she will ever need and she will get it from the taxpayers.

geez i hope some tv channel is stupid enough to give her a tv show then at least we wont feel the burden through welfare

The frightening fact is that people would watch the show! With all this coverage, it's like the TV stations are promoting it! Book deals? TV shows? What is wrong with people today????

I just don't understand why a women would go through do this with already having 6 kids, having no husband and living with parents, unless she did it as a surrogate and for money to provide for her children. That may explain why she doesn't want anyone to know who she is. Food for thought.

She has a husband. Check CNN for a story with more details. He is a contract worker to return to Iraq shortly.

If I was her husband... I would probably run to Iraq too... And than again, there is Afghanistan...

RUN FOREST RUN!!!!!!! hehehe

Maybe she named them all "George" like George Forman...

Judoheidi,

LOL!!!

Hopefully, more will come out regarding this matter. It is a little hard to believe that someone would use any artificial means to have 8 kids at once when she already has 6. Craziness.

I agree witha previous post, that this should be investigated further, and if it is discovered that doctors implanted copious numbers of embryos- BILL'S ON THEM! I certainly do not have enough money to care for anyone else's kids besides my own, it's a tough economy out there, and any person with 6 kids, living at home w/Mom and Dad should NOT be considered a good candidate for this type of fertility treatment. I hope her uterus falls out.

Please read post #5.5! It's very informative. And explains why this birth is just about impossible to have been a result of implanted embryos.

I agree Bibb...have as many babies as you want...YOU PAY FOR THEM. Not the taxpayers. I just don't understand how she could afford any of this, she isn't working, living with her parents and trying to take care of 6 other kids ranging from 2-8 years old? She would have to have a HUGE savings account or is on welfare...no doubt about it.

Like the saying goes, "Don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em."

Agreed but I can promise you TONS of whiners would come out of the woodwork that "that is their riiiight and that is not fair". Appalling.

I agree, Zen. But our adoption laws are so ridiculious that people who deserve a child can't get one. I had some friends who wanted to adopt and couldn't because their bank account was hefty enough. Wow...if it takes a hefty bank account to have a child, I think most of us wouldn't have one. My account is never full!! These kids need love and a home; not millions in the bank. That should be the only requirement...love!

Unfortunately. that will never happen. Often people want to see themselves in their children & are unable to love a child that isn't their own. I won't even get started on the fact that most people able to adopt want a newborn-6month old white baby. The waiting lists for those qualifications are very long.

this makes me sad too. there are so many children out there that need good, loving homes and no one ever even considers that. dont' get me started on people like angelina and brad... granted, there are children all over the world that need loving homes, but why not start here and stop taking in children from other countries all the time?

Amen MB. I feel the same way. Why did Brangelina have to go to another country? They could have gotten children here and helped out a whole lot more!

Why should all the couples that can't procreate be forced to consider adoption first?

Seems to me that we are not the ones over populating the earth. Maybe you should be forced to adopt prior to having a biological child.

It still amazes me that those that havn't experience infertility know so much about it and the way infertile couples think. Until you have gone through it.. YOU SHOULD HAVE NO OPINION.

My husband and I have adopted two beautiful boys. We did what was best for us. We became foster parents and then were blessed with our sons. We have had them both since birth. This was our choice... this is what was best for our family. We will continue fostering because it is a wonderful thing. We are giving back to the world.

Maybe all of you should try it.

How dare any of you think it right to push your choice or what you think is best for another family. I don't begrudge anyone the right to have a biological child if it is in their heart to do so.

lifesmanyquestions, just thought I would let you know that I posted sentiments like the one you were opposed to, and I am unable to conceive. I do, however, applaud your decision to foster/adopt after your experience. I just figured, maybe I was not able to get pregnant for a reason and it's not nice to fool mother nature.

The reason many people go to other countries to adopt is because of various laws within this country.

If you wish to adopt, you much provide financial, social and psychological reports out the wazoo. You can have as many children as you want without any financial, etc. means (see the reports on the welfare litters), but do adopt you must jump through hoops!

If you adopt a child who has been given up by the parent(s) or the courts have removed the child for its safety, and the parent wants it back - dumba..... judges have been known to return the child to the biological parent(s) - even after the child has been abused/neglected. Even after the child is returned to the biological parent and the parent continues the abuse/neglect, many times a judge will not return the child to the adoptive parent - NO MATTER WHAT THE ADOPTIVE PARENT PROVES!

That is why many people go outside of the country to adopt (buy) a child.

Sad - and then we have this mess! The mother AND GRANDPARENTS have multiple screws loose! The doctor should be held accountable and for the hospital to continue this farce (the hospital knew months in advance that there were multiple embryos) is just plain WRONG.

Personally, when the "reality" shows come on, I note the advertisers and change the channel. And then we I choose a product at the store - I stear clear of that advertiser if possible. I refuse to willingly be a part of the financing of litters of children (and yes, I have one and I didn't ask anyone else to help me support him!)

To everyone out there that thinks adopting a newborn American born child is so hard and expensive, you obviously have not taken the time to investigate all the way.  My wife and I went through the whole IVF process once (I stress once because I agree with Zendust, there is no great pathetic group of people, than the ones that spend $25, $50k + on Fertility treatments)  Once that failed and the slimey dr's tried to talk us into spending more money we said NO!  We immediately decided that there are plenty of children out there or will be out there that need good parents.  We went through the adoption process and got a beautiful daughter 3 years ago.  More than that we met the most wonderful person on the planet, her birthmother and to this day have a strong relationship with her.  The other group of pathetic people are the ones that adopt internationationally.  The majority of the time they do it because they do not want to wait.  We waited a total of 8 months!  Most international Adoptions take much longer than that because the country of origin has harsh restrictions and it takes a long time to release the children.  I think fertility treatments should be limited to one try (btw, each time increases the risk of ovarian cancer), and international adoptions should be outlawed!

I agree with that comment. Why is having children by man made means okay but aborting one by man made means no okay. To me, if you can have them and you want them fine. But if not, then adopt. If people want to be Mom and Dad so bad and must love children so much, there are plenty out there.

I also agree that we are going to foot this bill. NICU care is expensive and even if one has health insurance, they won't for long after those bills. I choose not to have children and really don't like paying for people to breed. Even worse when there are adults who are not yet 65 who have worked their entire lives, saved, own their homes but at some point may not be able to work due to health or injury. There are very few government resourses for those people. But have a baby as a teen, you can have money and food. I am not saying it's a dream but you get something simply for giving birth. Any animal can breed, humans are supposed to have reason and judgement.

Even if she HAS insurance it should not be required to pay for the fertilization, her hospitalilization, her care while pregnant and the follow-up, or the kids' health problems. That's a huge burden on an insurance company - and guess what? EVERYONE ELSE'S PREMIUMS WILL GO UP!

Insurance should not pay for over a certain number of kids/pregnancies. (Though I realize setting a limit would entail tremendous debate).

I fully believe in neutering. Anyone w/o financial support at the time of pregnancy who already has two kids s/b neutered. Any dad who has fathered 2 kids and who does not support them s/b neutered if he gets someone pregnant a third time.

I have for YEARS thought that anyone on state aid should have their tubes tied after the second child. My GD would love to have a baby, but she can not afford the IV, and she cannot have one naturally. why is it that some one who would love to be a mother, and would be a great mom,.cannot get pregant, an someone else can be a brood sow.As for adoption, she and her DH do not qualify for a child since they do not have enought money in the bank to satisy state officials.

carole-313805, re # 17.1. Do you by any chance work for one of our poor oppressed insurance companies? Can you say Ponzi scheme?

Nope. My husband and I pay rising taxes, insurance premiums, college tuition for 2 kids and my last goes in the fall. I quit work to be there for them and still drive my youngest around for school activities. It's tough financially. I thank God that he knew what he was doing when I didn't get pregnant with a fourth child!

So 14yearold - are you on a public program?

Mary

First of all this lady is very sick. She should have been neutered a long time ago. Dont wait and let her have the chance to get pregnant prevent her from getting pregnant.

People are not neutered, animals are. This is America, no one should be forced to not have children if they want them and can take care of them. While I agree that this woman should have chosen to be more responsible and not had any more children, I'm sure there is a reason behind why she did. I wonder what the reason was.

Unfortunately Mary, common sense has become the biggest oxymoron on planet earth.

Enforced sterilization is not the answer. Once that box is opened, it allows for more and more government control over people reproductive rights. If this women had naturally had 8 children I would have no problem. The problem comes when extreme measures of reproduction are used when they are clearly unnecessary. I fear for the emotional & physical well being of all 14 children.

The article says she is a single mom I do believe. No insurance company should have to pay for this loon. This woman is very sick and needs to be institutionalized.

Even if insurance doesn't cover fertility treatments, I'll bet it covers the delivery, her prenatal care, and ALL of their medical costs. Every penny spent of this idiot would be a penny too much.

Her "insurance" probably come from the taxpayers, doled out by the dishonest politicians wanting to make themselves look wonderful in the eyes of those who elected them.

It is a totally irresponsible thing she did. I don't know what is her defination of parenting is, but I think besides giving birth to and feeding them, you need to EDUCATE them too!!! Do you how much it will cost to pay for college these days? I really hope all 14 kids are going to be so smart that they can all get scholarships and won't end up on the streets.

Go familiarize yourself with the welfare reform act of 1996, it caps the number of children you can collect for and it sets a lifetime limit for collecting welfare at 5 years. There is no such thing as "welfare families" collecting for a lifetime anymore. Welfare rolls have been reduced by 60% since 1996.

That's right. The helpful caseworkers help them obtain social security disability to make up for it when the time comes to cut them. My sister now gets paid for herself, her hubby, and all four of her kids, still receives food stamps, has free medical care and free medicine, housing assistance, etc. Hopefully someday I'll be able to work my way up to an equivilant level of what she's getting.

No wonder california is going broke, Arnold, redo your welfare standards.

I hope no sponsor or TV show will touch her.

If they do, and no one actually watches it, then they'll have to stop!! I hope no tv or sponsor either. Not a medical miracle.

They already have carole...they were at the door the second she dropped #2 and got into her room as soon as the others got off of the vent. Negotiations have already started.

Correct LS, this is not a miracle, this is a curse. It would only be a miracle if she has a total hysterectomy before this last round and she got knocked up anyway.

May her stretch marks and flab go to her knees.

If Bush hadn't been president for 8 years this wouldn't have happened. Look what this man has done to our country!

i am certainly no fan of george bush. but how about giving it a rest? at face value, your contention is ridiculous.

more free money...........

more free money...........

Common. You think that this is just for the money? That makes no sense.

I agree that this woman needs her head examined.

This is a medical ethics issue as nuch as anything. The docs that provided her the fertility drugs need to be investigated.

This is also a Pro-Life ethics issue. She was warned of the multiple pregnancy issue, but decided to proceed. The issue of the ability to care for so many babies is real.

I haven't seen any mention of any public support.

This should have been stopped at the fertility clinic

That is the question of the day! I find it hard to believe that any form of insurance would cover invetro for her, I don't think that procedure is covered. Certainly if she was on welfare (as some have suggested) the insurance did not cover it, that I am sure of. Apparently this family may have more money than we think.

Or less brains.

money or not I have the feeling if I lived with my mom and dad with 6 kids and then got pregnant with 8 more they would probably kill me

LM, considering how happy the grandparents are, I think they must have encouraged their daughter to have fertility treatments. I wonder about the responsibility of the doctor. Couldn't he have refused to take part in this insanity? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Linda: It's entirely possible I missed something, but everything I've read makes it sound like her mother is totally p!$$ed at the whole thing. Nothing I've read has said anything about encouragement, if anything I get the impression her own mother thinks she's nuts.

There is NO DAD in the picture. The woman was divorced, and the first 6 children are not the ex hubsand's kids.

So people. work some overtime, cause your tax dollars and going to this yo-yo.