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{"contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"health"}

6 kids plus 8 babies: What was doctor thinking?

How in the world does a woman with six children get a fertility doctor to help her have more - eight more?

{"contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"health"}
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{"commentId":5090115,"authorDomain":"linda-dahlstrom"}

What ethical guidelines do you think fertility doctors should be bound by?

{"commentId":5090115,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"linda-dahlstrom"}
    Reply#1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:15 PM EST
    {"commentId":5092934,"authorDomain":"mgrossman13"}

    Some network will give this woman her own reality show (like the Gosselins on TLC) and use that money to live off of............so advertisers will be paying for those kids and that family.  Just like the Duggars, etc.

    How else do you think the Gosselins and the Duggars can afford the house that they've built or moving into........from their TV shows!

    Doh!

    {"commentId":5092934,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mgrossman13"}
      #1.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:52 PM EST
      {"commentId":5093433,"authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}

      No, they are not there to say whether or not someone should have a large family. But fertility doctors are creating the family!! It should be for those who have none! Not for those that have 6 already! If she had 14 naturally...ok, fine. The Duggars (ugh) did it...(and I think they're trying again...UGH) But anywho....there should be something that says if you've got kids you're not a viable candidate for fertilization treatments!

      {"commentId":5093433,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}
      • 5 votes
      #1.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:19 PM EST
      {"commentId":5093656,"authorDomain":"thegskis"}
      Stevo-Deleted
      {"commentId":5094142,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

      The world's record for one woman having children naturally is 69. There are a number of women who have had 50 or so kids.

      I really can't fault them or the doctors for this. If they want the kids, fine. If they want help from medical science, how is that different from getting help from medical science for anything else?

      I think they are nuts myself. But 14 kids is only a large family in the modern world, it's not all that remarkable in most of the world.

      Regarding the medical bills, I don't care. Why? Because this is nothing in the total picture. There are so many old people who are going to be a burden on society getting care they can't pay for it's pathetic.

      Believe me. The world is not going to fill with mommas having 8 kids at a time. It's an extraordinary event.

      {"commentId":5094142,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
      • 3 votes
      #1.4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:58 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094297,"authorDomain":"ecmobaby"}

      Its nobodys business who wants to have more children. She has to raise them and pay for them. There are too many guidelines on who can and should have kids and who can and should adopt. The world would be better if everyone tended to their own gardens and stood out of everyone elses. Good luck to you, Mom. God Bless all your children and hope they live long happy healthy lives.

      {"commentId":5094297,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"ecmobaby"}
      • 2 votes
      #1.5 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:08 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094327,"authorDomain":"perspectives76"}

      Stevo, you are 100% correct. That is what some people don't seem to understand. Yes, you can have as many kids as you want if YOU can afford it. Remember the politician in Arkansas who had 14 kids. He did not ask for public assistance, so his decision to have a large family did not bother me. However, if this woman cannot afford to take care of her 14 kids, that bothers me. Since, I have to chip in to help, it becomes my business.

      {"commentId":5094327,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"perspectives76"}
      • 7 votes
      #1.6 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:11 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094346,"authorDomain":"PlayingGod384"}

      I think that doctor who helped her do this should be sued or help pay for the kids. After all, it was his doing. He should've looked at the family background before considering impregnating her.

      {"commentId":5094346,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"PlayingGod384"}
      • 8 votes
      #1.7 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:12 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094553,"authorDomain":"hparker-7"}

      who cares. everyone needs to mind their own business and worry about bigger problems in the world and how they can contribute to make a difference in the world. we are not in china people. we are allowed to decide how many children we want and how big of a family we want to have. people are making this into such a big deal. do you really want doctors policing how many children we can have? leave it alone and tend to your own matters and business.

      {"commentId":5094553,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"hparker-7"}
      • 3 votes
      #1.8 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:24 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094650,"authorDomain":"jebarnes1228"}

      So many people support a woman's "right" to have an abortion - why don't we support a woman's right to have as many children as she wants? I'm pro-choice meaning I'm for the choice to have children. I'm proud of this mother for not terminating any of these babies. Many people are being judgemental in her decision to have these babies and how she went about doing it. We don't know her reasoning for it. It's her body, her decision and if she wants to raise 14 children, more power to her. You like the idea of limiting children? Move to China.

      {"commentId":5094650,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jebarnes1228"}
      • 7 votes
      #1.9 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:31 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094661,"authorDomain":"wrarelywrational-online"}

      John T. To my thinking you are not making sense on many levels:

      1) Getting a fertility doctor to help you have more kids when you already have 6 is a world of difference from getting a doctor to do a nose job. Bringing more babies into this world puts a burden on so many systems of society I don't have space to list them all. But I'll just bring up one of the more glaring: school system costs. This woman's kids now will be 1/4 of a entire class. Will she have to pay 8x the taxes of the rest of us?

      2) Her medical costs are astronomical. Start with her 8 week hospital stay in high risk pre-natal unit: the base cost is at least $185,000.00. That doesn't include drugs & tests or anything except room and board. The whole cost is more likely 400,000.00. Figure actual delivery is estimated at about $175,000.00 (more than 40 doctors & nurses took part). The post-natal care in NICU for 8 babies adds approximately another 1.5 million. Evidently this woman has Kaiser insurance - how many others WON'T get care because of this obviously mentally ill woman? What's also not mentioned in a lot of articles is this person's husband is in the military, so she clearly CANNOT afford to raise the extra kids without government support! That makes her actions not just insane, but unethical & downright immoral.

      3) People who get old (which is something that is inevitable if one avoids fatal traffic accidents and getting shot, etc) a 'burden on society'? YOU are clearly a [very] young person. Are you of the school of thought we should declare all those over 70 as nonpersons with no rights to medical care or property? That we should deny them any medical care? Perhaps give them all a shot and get rid of these 'burdens'? To equate old age with a mentally ill woman who had NO NEED of more children sucking over 1.5 million dollars out of the medical community is ludicrous.

      Consider how other (and more long-term stable)societies treasure their elderly. They respect their longevity and look to them for solutions. If we'd listened to our elderly these past 40 years we wouldn't be in the financial mess we find ourselves now. (Actually, I DID...and am still in zero debt, with a paid off home and cars..the only thing I need to pay for is food and utilities. Thanks, Gramps!)

      The only thing extraordinary about this woman having 8 kids is how she conned the fertility doc to help her. 5 gets you 10 Kaiser (and every other insurance company) is busy re-writing their fertility rules to ban help to those with more than 2 or 3 kids- if not just one.

      I think it's interesting many companies who usually like to drown these mommas with lots of freebies (diapers, formula, etc) have opted to bypass this nut-case. They don't want her to profit off them. So, if she was hoping for people to build her a nice, new spacious house [reportedly they live in a 3 bedroom home now] or give her free diapers she can forget it.

      I wonder if in the future Social Services will have to remove some or all of the kids from this woman for inability to care for them, abuse, etc...adding yet another level of cost to her decision.

      John, I wonder if you'll think of the elderly as a 'burden' when you join their ranks in 50 years?

      {"commentId":5094661,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"wrarelywrational-online"}
      • 15 votes
      #1.10 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:31 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094662,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

      Now don't you think it's interesting that all the other litters of kids that have been celebrated are white, and now a non-white one comes along and all of a sudden it's:

      "Oh my god! This is just so wrong! Call the law! Sue the doctor!"

      Oh, no. You aren't racist. Not you.

      {"commentId":5094662,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
      • 1 vote
      #1.11 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:31 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094771,"authorDomain":"julielyn64"}

      How in the world can someone so far in debt and have 6 kids and then have a fertility doctor help her have 8 more kids? Not saying we should be like China (1 child only) but come on the one is a shrink and she does something so irrashinable?(sp) i hope this isn't going to be bad for the kids. Being raised on welfare isnt exactly the life i would choose for my children, and rightnow who can afford all those kids? Don't the kids have a say in anything? this is just ludicrious! and as far as the Duggars family goes they are a bunch of hypocrits. where does it say in the bible to plenish the earth and use your children for capital gain??? No I am not a racist however there is no way in todays times that she will ever give all those kids the life they deserve and a paid college education.. some people dont think outside the box or look at another persons perspective. I dont usually judge people because we are not suppose to however this was completely crazy!

      {"commentId":5094771,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"julielyn64"}
      • 3 votes
      #1.12 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:38 PM EST
      {"commentId":5094923,"authorDomain":"rosssgal"}

      All white, not all white.  You know what, until I read this, I had no idea what color she was, and it didn't matter.  What does matter, is that she used absolutely no common sense at all.  Everyone keeps commenting on the Duggars.  Well, the Duggars are a well balanced family that works as a  team.  How can you do that, as  a single parent?  And now, all 14 of her kids are under 8!!!   Yes, she lives with her folks, but they won't live forever.  None of us do.  Get over the racist stuff.  This might even be a little jealousy on my part.  My wonderful daughter and son-in-law want kids, and can't have them.  And they could provide a wonderful, loving home life for any child.  And  this chick is mass producing, it's crazy.

      {"commentId":5094923,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"rosssgal"}
      • 11 votes
      #1.13 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:47 PM EST
      {"commentId":5095044,"authorDomain":"kalaska"}

      It is so unethical, I can't even come up with more discussion.

      {"commentId":5095044,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"kalaska"}
      • 3 votes
      #1.14 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:54 PM EST
      {"commentId":5095174,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

      Logika-

      1) Getting a fertility doctor to help you have more kids when you already have 6 is a world of difference from getting a doctor to do a nose job. Bringing more babies into this world puts a burden on so many systems of society I don't have space to list them all. But I'll just bring up one of the more glaring: school system costs. This woman's kids now will be 1/4 of a entire class. Will she have to pay 8x the taxes of the rest of us?

      Children have always been a collective responsibility of civilized societies. I realize that it has become fashionable in places like California to not want to pay taxes for anything that you aren't personally using. That attitude is narcissistic bullcrap, and it is why the state is crashing. By your logic a family with zero children should pay nothing for schools and a family of 4 should pay four times what a family of 1 child pays. That is ridiculous and sophomoric. Get a grip. In her county she is an extra 8 kids in a school. It doesn't matter.

      2) Her medical costs are astronomical. Start with her 8 week hospital stay in high risk pre-natal unit: the base cost is at least $185,000.00. That doesn't include drugs & tests or anything except room and board. The whole cost is more likely 400,000.00. Figure actual delivery is estimated at about $175,000.00 (more than 40 doctors & nurses took part). The post-natal care in NICU for 8 babies adds approximately another 1.5 million.

      First, those costs are a hoax for the yokels. For instance, I had a back surgery that was priced at $28,000 without hospital stay. (I had switched insurance and it was a pre-existing condition.) My insurance billed the hospital and I paid them, and with 2 days stay plus the operation, it cost me $6,000. I kid you not. Divide those by four, minimum.

      Evidently this woman has Kaiser insurance - how many others WON'T get care because of this obviously mentally ill woman?

      Excuse me? She is described as an "awesome mom". Who are you to say she is mentally ill?

      The answer to how many won't get care is zero. It won't make any difference. No different than any other extraordinary event. Do you know how much it costs to care for a motorcycle accident victim? How about the guy who fell 4 stories drunk onto a sidewalk and was in intensive care for 6 months and in regular care for another year?

      What's also not mentioned in a lot of articles is this person's husband is in the military, so she clearly CANNOT afford to raise the extra kids without government support! That makes her actions not just insane, but unethical & downright immoral.

      This comment is so outrageous you should be ashamed of yourself. Who are you to say that because someone is in the military they shouldn't get government support? And who are you to suggest that because he is in the military he will never amount to a hill of beans? Hmm? Are you getting a clue yet? This woman has a support system - her parents. She's fine.

      3) People who get old (which is something that is inevitable if one avoids fatal traffic accidents and getting shot, etc) a 'burden on society'? YOU are clearly a [very] young person. Are you of the school of thought we should declare all those over 70 as nonpersons with no rights to medical care or property?

      I am 52 my brother and I am currently doing medical research. I know how things work. I know where the costs are. It is simply a fact that about 50% of all the costs to the medical system are from extraordinary care delivered in the last 6 months of life. Go look it up. This problem is also the primary destroyer of middle class family fortunes.

      Consider how other (and more long-term stable)societies treasure their elderly. They respect their longevity and look to them for solutions. If we'd listened to our elderly these past 40 years we wouldn't be in the financial mess we find ourselves now. (Actually, I DID...and am still in zero debt, with a paid off home and cars..the only thing I need to pay for is food and utilities. Thanks, Gramps!)

      Well, many societies put their non-functional elders out to die. In Fijian traditional culture it was the responsibility of the eldest son to strangle his parents before they became infirm. Your view of other societies is unsalted by anthropological study. :-)

      I too have no debt, and listened to my elders. My parents trusted me with their wish not to be disturbed if they decided to take a sleeping pill and go out in a snowdrift. I had no influence on that, they had that influence on me.

      5 gets you 10 Kaiser (and every other insurance company) is busy re-writing their fertility rules to ban help to those with more than 2 or 3 kids- if not just one.

      I guarantee you they are not. They would get in so much trouble with the insurance commissioner. They cannot do that.

      I think it's interesting many companies who usually like to drown these mommas with lots of freebies (diapers, formula, etc) have opted to bypass this nut-case.

      First, you don't know that yet. Second, she is learning one thing - be white. The companies will jump on this like flies on poop if the tied of public opinion turns. You can be sure of that. It's all about marketing.

      I wonder if in the future Social Services will have to remove some or all of the kids from this woman for inability to care for them, abuse, etc...adding yet another level of cost to her decision.

      She is described as "an awesome mom." The doctors said she is strong and breast feeding them all. Now, if morons like you turn her into a pariah for the terrible crime of reproducing too much while non-white, yes, she may wind up in that system. But I don't expect her to. See, one of my inlaws runs a CPS caseload of 600+ kids.

      John, I wonder if you'll think of the elderly as a 'burden' when you join their ranks in 50 years?

      Guess I'm going to have to get rid of my AARP card. Darn. I liked those discounts!

      {"commentId":5095174,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
        #1.15 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:02 PM EST
        {"commentId":5095909,"authorDomain":"barry-r"}

        John -- You are obviously an educated author of fiction! And a man as well, that is unless John is only your writing name (or whatever the accurate term may be). Strangely, it's usually men who believe having multitudes of children is great. There is a man (well, actually he was a woman & changed to a man) who has given birth & is pregnant again. John, you might want to look into that.

        Seriously, it was a great tale you wrote. Hope you win the Pulitzer!

        {"commentId":5095909,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"barry-r"}
        • 4 votes
        #1.16 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:44 PM EST
        {"commentId":5096044,"authorDomain":"mozark"}

        Don't know about the ethical guidelines but I'm all for a good old fashioned horse whipping for this a-hole doctor and the mother, and I used the term cautiously, should have all 8 taken from her and placed in homes where there are two loving individuals waiting for 1 child. How this woman's parents can defend her is beyond me. And to suggest, as some have, that she is going to be responsible for feeding and clothing them and taking care of them is missing a bolt or two. She will have everything given to her that she needs, maybe even given a new house, likely a year's worth of free helpers, diapers till the kids are toilet trained, money for their education, etc. Have none of you ever seen an Oprah show honoring these horrific types?

        {"commentId":5096044,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mozark"}
        • 5 votes
        #1.17 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:54 PM EST
        {"commentId":5096213,"authorDomain":"mysteryone1950"}

        Now don't you think it's interesting that all the other litters of kids that have been celebrated are white, and now a non-white one comes along and all of a sudden it's:

        "Oh my god! This is just so wrong! Call the law! Sue the doctor!"

        Oh, no. You aren't racist. Not you.

        Wrong John!

        The other Octuplets, the only other Octuplets born in the US, were born to an Nigerian born American citizens in Houston in 1998, They got lots of publicity.

        {"commentId":5096213,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mysteryone1950"}
        • 3 votes
        #1.18 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:07 AM EST
        {"commentId":5096475,"authorDomain":"windtempest69"}

        There should be a limit as to how many embryos can be implanted. 8 was a ridiculous number and a risk to all of the babies. If there are guidelines already in place this doctor and any doctor that can't follow them shouldn't be allowed to practice anymore.

        The fact that this family is being so secretive and she is having so many kids ... (she already had 6) I think there is more to this story than we know. Just seems odd to me. Something about this just stinks.

        {"commentId":5096475,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"windtempest69"}
        • 4 votes
        #1.19 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 AM EST
        {"commentId":5097310,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

        All I can say is WOW. As I read through this I'm amazed. Obama reverse's Bush Policy on funding and I see one pro-lifer after another up in arms because even though the money will help with education and pre-natal care since it can help with abortion Obama is the anti-Christ. Here we have the opposite and they condemn her for not having had some of the babies aborted when all of the in-vitros took (most of the time only 1 or 2 become viable).

        Can't have it both ways people. The Medical technology is out there for both but if your here shouting abortion is wrong and turn right around and condemn this woman your nothing but a hypocrite.

        {"commentId":5097310,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
        • 1 vote
        #1.20 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:04 AM EST
        {"commentId":5097700,"authorDomain":"gregbpc"}

        Someone called into the Jon & Ken show on KFI-640 in LA today. He said his g/f works at a grocery store near where this lady is from. She has waited on this lady and her father. He said she pays for groceries with WIC and EBT (welfare). Go ahead and have 14 kids, but don't make the taxpayers pick up the tab.

        {"commentId":5097700,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"gregbpc"}
        • 11 votes
        #1.21 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:20 AM EST
        {"commentId":5098469,"authorDomain":"consultant13"}
        Consultant13Deleted
        {"commentId":5098537,"authorDomain":"sammie1398"}

        As a kaiser patient I think that they were wrong and also the mother is wrong. Reason to follow:

        As a kaiser patient I have had alot of issues in regards to this. I could not conseive for six years and what i got was a hsyterectomy. and to this day 4 years later it is one problem after another.

        14 kids when is it going to stop???? Like the Duggars 18 childeren. which i think is now 19 or 20 by now. if she has that many kids and no father and lives with her parents, who the hell is paying for them??? Is something we all are going to do later???

        It is like all the people from Mexico that are here illagal and we are paying for them as well. And Someone on disibility and i went for assistance and was told i couldn't because i did not have a couple of kids, I was white and I belong here.

        What dose that say for our system? Pretty screwed up in my eyes!

        {"commentId":5098537,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sammie1398"}
        • 6 votes
        #1.23 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:46 AM EST
        {"commentId":5098840,"authorDomain":"abanks830"}

        I so agree- this woman is in debt and wanted the babies so she coud become famous and get her own reality show- give me a break. Even her statement to the press sounded so planned. We should all ignore her- she just wants attention- let her raise her kids and pay for them on her own- that is real life...

        {"commentId":5098840,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"abanks830"}
        • 2 votes
        #1.24 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:37 AM EST
        {"commentId":5099250,"authorDomain":"sal1967"}

        This is extremely selfish and detrimental to the planet.

        The media exploits this and we here more examples of this. Look at the woman with 18 children... and she wants more.

        Babies become children. Children become adolescents. All will become adults, baring tragedy.

        Inside of 20 years 14 more adults will join a nation of people seeking employment... and that just comes from this woman.

        I hear she lives with her mom and is not married.

        What the hell!!!!

        There are thousands out there looking for homes.... ADOPT!!!

        {"commentId":5099250,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sal1967"}
        • 8 votes
        #1.25 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:21 AM EST
        {"commentId":5099480,"authorDomain":"meneisler"}

        I think that Dr needs to be banned from ever doing this again. The Dr and the Mother & Grandparents saw $$$$$$$. Who in their right mind would want 14 children in this economy and she is living w/her parents and 6 other children. The children should be taken away and given a chance at a better life. This is a disgrace, medically and morally!!Maybe they wanted their own TV show!!???

        {"commentId":5099480,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"meneisler"}
        • 2 votes
        #1.26 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:41 AM EST
        {"commentId":5099493,"authorDomain":"sondra-neace"}

        6 kids was already plenty, and if they wanted more, adoption is a beautiful thing, yeah maybe they are shooting for their own show, I sure hope not, and the thoughts of our tax dollars keeping them up makes my blood boil.

        {"commentId":5099493,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sondra-neace"}
        • 2 votes
        #1.27 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:42 AM EST
        {"commentId":5099998,"authorDomain":"dagah"}

        I think the mother should always provide socio-economic information as well as have a psychological evaluation. The medical staff can attempt, then, to guide the mother to appropriate avenues. If it doesn't work, then she will get fertility treatments if she can pay.

        Instead of guidelines for the number of embryos implanted or whether or not the drugs have overstimulated egg production so insemination should be delayed, I am in favor of laws that restrict the number. Apparently we have some medical folks here or elsewere in the world who want to do harm with high multiple births which are dangerous to the mother and to the fetuses. There's a reason few of these higher number multiple births occur--the pregnancy ends in miscarriage. There is no reason to do such harm with today's technology.

        However, once a multiple pregnancy has occured, then we revert back to the mother making a choice. I think at this point it would have to be left to the mother to choose. We simply can't legislate to prevent all foolishness.

        My two cents....

        {"commentId":5099998,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"dagah"}
          #1.28 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:23 AM EST
          {"commentId":5101457,"authorDomain":"arsine3463"}

          From my experience, many reproductive endocronologists have a strict sense of ethics and morality. It is something that many of them struggle with - as do the patients. Don't use the newsworthy actions of the very few color your opinion of the rest.

          {"commentId":5101457,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"arsine3463"}
          • 4 votes
          #1.29 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:06 PM EST
          {"commentId":5101781,"authorDomain":"agboola-2"}
          What ethical guidelines do you think fertility doctors should be bound by?

          They should be bound by the heath concerns of their patients.

          one woman having that many children can lead a range of problems from physiological concerns such as a increased risk of having a prolapsed uterus or incontinence and mental concerns such as depression and anxiety from being overwhelmed. Not to mention the health and mental well being of the other children.

          Thats why a thorough history and risk assessment should be done prior to fertility treatment.

          I've heard the patient lied to the doctor, but rather she did or not, An investigation should be done to see what counseling the doctor gave his/her patient and why this option for fertility treatment went forward.

          {"commentId":5101781,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"agboola-2"}
          • 5 votes
          #1.30 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:29 PM EST
          {"commentId":5101882,"authorDomain":"frankblack"}

          This freakish episode is the result of 12 years of the Republican War on Common Sense and Science.

          {"commentId":5101882,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"frankblack"}
          • 3 votes
          #1.31 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:36 PM EST
          {"commentId":5102769,"authorDomain":"vix1972"}

          I don't believe the doctor's should be held responsible. This woman is the only one at fault, considering that she admitted to Yolanda Garcia (a former caretaker for one of her children) that she's getting paid for having so many children, I can't help but think that money is what's motivating her to do this. If she loves children so much, why didn't she pursue her career in childcare??? Apparently this woman is working on her master's degree, when does she see her kids? As a responsible parent you ensure a job before you have a baby and if for any reason you couldn't, then you ensure it as soon as possible, she had plenty of time to ensure a job or career. I only hope that the media doesn't encourage this type of irresponsible reasoning. It seems that a tv network has been creating reality shows about large families, I hope they don't start a show following her family. Someone mentioned that other families are taking advantage of the publicity, families that have eight kids and more. However, these families are couples with JOBS and these shows started after all of these kids were born. The octuplet's mom, on the other hand, is a single mom with no job and, COINCIDENTLY, had all eight kids after all these shows

          {"commentId":5102769,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"vix1972"}
            #1.32 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:36 PM EST
            {"commentId":5102785,"authorDomain":"goodphuggy"}

            John Toradze Regarding the medical bills, I don't care. Why? Because this is nothing in the total picture. There are so many old people who are going to be a burden on society getting care they can't pay for it's pathetic.

            John, you are a total freaking idiot. Old people have paid their dues to society, and by GOD, they deserve medical care. I am one of those people, and I am getting care that I need. When I was able to work, I held 2 and 3 jobs just to be able to feed and clothe myself. Why? Because I was single with no dependents HALF of every check went into taxes, a good portion to help support these kids because one or both parents had no self control. DON'T YOU DARE SIT THERE AND RAG ON OLDER PEOPLE WHO IN SOME CASES HAVE MORE THAN PAID THEIR DUES TO THIS MESSED UP SOCIETY. How DARE you. I'm glad you are not in front of me right now, I would make sure you spent the rest of your miserable life sounding like a little girl.

            {"commentId":5102785,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"goodphuggy"}
            • 7 votes
            #1.33 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:37 PM EST
            {"commentId":5102983,"authorDomain":"Davo5674"}

            Ah, news flash. 8 years Republican, 4 years "It aint sex" Clinton. At least get the timetable right.

            {"commentId":5102983,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Davo5674"}
              #1.34 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:51 PM EST
              {"commentId":5104012,"authorDomain":"judyatkilauea"}

              I think that the doctors responsible for the fertility treatment or embrio transplant should be made FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE for the support of these children until they are 18 !!

              {"commentId":5104012,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"judyatkilauea"}
              • 2 votes
              #1.35 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:20 PM EST
              {"commentId":5105192,"authorDomain":"sal1967"}

              There is another vine on this and she is not married (does not want to be) and this was invitro using sperm donor.

              Here is the delimma...

              Do we as a society help her out financially and thereby encourage her and others to continue?

              or ....

              Not and risk the children not having the care they need?

              {"commentId":5105192,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sal1967"}
              • 6 votes
              #1.36 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:48 PM EST
              {"commentId":5106300,"authorDomain":"nchekwube"}

              If she was using a simple fertility pill, she was responsible for the outcome. If the doctor transplanted in more than 2 fetuses or gave the patient fertility pills without informing the patient of a plan to abort extra fetuses for the sake of the mother and remaining fetuses, he goofed. If she had agreed to the plan and then changed her mind, do not blame the doctor because he is not allowed to force her to do otherwise!

              It is the responsibility not of the doctor but of society to deal with bigger questions like fertility, birth control, abortions, using fetuses instead of cord or blood or bone for stem cells (without even having a way to keep the stems cells from growing like cancer), euthanasia, etc.

              This discussion is good and needed. Society should make the law and expect the doctor to follow it to the best of his ability to do so without offending God.

              As for the idea of a woman who already has more than 2 children expecting society to spend its scarce resources for her selfish desire to have more genetic children - why shouldn't medical insurance companies deny costly elective procedures that do not enhance the health of the insured so that the resources will be there for patients who need medical care? And why shouldn't society have limits to prevent someone from usurping an unfair share of the common resources (be they day traders or capitalists stealing capital from the nation or people who could but do not work or ...). Half of the country already hates "entitlements" and any abuse of same could only grow that number.

              As for the children, we can only hope that all of the already born will be treated like the children of God, which is what they are.

              {"commentId":5106300,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"nchekwube"}
              • 1 vote
              #1.37 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:21 PM EST
              {"commentId":5106912,"authorDomain":"ggillesp"}

              This is AlQuida planning ahead to produce future terrorists in mulitiple in our country. These children are being born here for American status but being brought up with Alquida's brainwashing. What better than to blend in with our society, yet be the enemy. This may be far fetched however it should be considered. One plus one doesn't seem to equal two here. This family is acting shady and hiding from the public and the facts and questions are being avoided on the eight babies and how they were conceived. Fourteen kids and counting. Their army is growing. What do you think?

              {"commentId":5106912,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"ggillesp"}
              • 1 vote
              #1.38 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:11 PM EST
              {"commentId":5110527,"authorDomain":"reality101"}

              What were the doctors thinking you say? Probably, how they would see their names in all the medical publications around the world, in broadcast news and newspapers, etc., telling how they were finally able to secure a guinea pig.... I mean a test subject..... no, I mean a mental specimen, who would let them pack a litter of babies inside them, so that they could study it. They simply wanted to test the limitations of just how many subjects they could stuff inside the woman (like how a clown car would do it)...... and for a price, she let them.

              To the fertility specialists, listen you "diddle doctors". Just because a mental person comes to you and say "fill 'em up" doesn't excuse your part in this, by saying "she let me". If you just wanted to see someone with a bunch of babies piled up in them, you should have just stuck to impregnating fish, rats, spiders, dogs, cats, roaches, strange bugs, etc, not some woman, who has obviously gone mental.

              The ONLY innocents in this who sideshow are those little babies, and her other 6 kids. For their sakes only, I hope that everything turns out alright for them all.

              {"commentId":5110527,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"reality101"}
              • 3 votes
              #1.39 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 1:11 AM EST
              {"commentId":5113532,"authorDomain":"sal1967"}

              You know ....

              a bartender has the right to tell a customer you have had too much, and I am going to call you a cab buddy....

              why can't the doctor... knowing the patients history say no.

              {"commentId":5113532,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sal1967"}
              • 4 votes
              #1.40 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 10:22 AM EST
              {"commentId":5115611,"authorDomain":"margaretpeeler"}

              Exactly, Dragonwoman. The IVF Dr. should have a screening process to be sure the prospective parent can handle this, and implanting 8 at once is dangerous to the mother and all the babies.

              A person who lives with 4 cats is a cat-lover...a person who lives with 47 cats has mental health problems that should be addressed. I can sympathize with a woman wanting a baby even if she doesn't have a husband...but this woman's desires indicate an unhealthy obsession (as even her own mother said). Such an obsession is unlikely to lead to good parenting. I've known a couple of women who kept popping out babies because they adored BABIES. Their babies were adored. Meanwhile their older kids were being neglected (and in one case molested by a stepfather) while Mom was only interested in babies babies more babies. If you want to collect limitless numbers of something cute, cultivate an interest in Hummel figures or Beanie Babies. Human babies aren't just cute things to collect in large numbers.

              If raising a few kids doesn't exhaust you mentally, physically, and emotionally, you're not giving your kids enough. If you think an impoverished single mom can do justice for 14 children under the age of 8, you have no idea what it means to be an "awesome" parent. I'm not wild about the Duggars, but their children are spaced out (so the older kids help w/ younger kids) and they have enough money to support their clan. Celebrity couples collecting orphans-around-the-world creep me out too, but they have the resources to handle it AND they're rescuing these kids from a miserable future not willfully creating babies they'll expect the public to support.

              P.S. I don't give a rat's tail about this woman's ethnicity. I just think people should consider babies a major responsibility not a cute thing to collect. I raised ONE child (with help from her father sometimes) and gave her my all. She turned out great. If I'd had ten or twenty kids I couldn't have done as well.

              Now I'm middle-aged and my health is failing badly, so I wonder if John T. thinks I don't deserve to be a "burden" on society? What will you do with us John, when our bodies wear out? Turn us into Soylent Green to feed the toddlers of people who just couldn't resist having a dozen or more babies?

              {"commentId":5115611,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"margaretpeeler"}
              • 3 votes
              #1.41 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 1:15 PM EST
              {"commentId":5124600,"authorDomain":"casey-wells"}

              I think that it is crazy that people are sayingthat doctors have the right to tell us how many kids we should or should not have. I myself did IVF and I had 3 kids already. We don't know the whole story and shouldn't know as it is none of our business. America is about freedom but yet some want our freedom to make our own choices on how many kids someone can have. Get real and get over yourselves.

              {"commentId":5124600,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"casey-wells"}
                #1.42 - Mon Feb 2, 2009 8:45 AM EST
                {"commentId":5125589,"authorDomain":"bracelets08"}

                A woman near my hometown had 3 kids and did IVF for the simple reason she wasn't getting pregnant as fast as she wanted. See they had two older kids and then a 2 year old and wanted that one to have a playmate so they wouldn't feel like an only child when they were older. They ended up with 5 playmates for the 2 year old. They got all sorts of public showers and people asking for donations for them. The quints are 2 themselves now and recently were in the paper. The parents are whining about not having enough room. I don't feel sorry for them and will not donate a single cent. They get enough of my tax money.

                I would probably have to go on drugs to get pregnant and refuse to do it. I do believe there is a reason some people can't get pregnant, including possibly myself. I may try some natural methods to regulate my hormones but it won't stimulate extra eggs or let some doctor play God with my body.

                {"commentId":5125589,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"bracelets08"}
                  #1.43 - Mon Feb 2, 2009 10:02 AM EST
                  {"commentId":5152906,"authorDomain":"dduell"}

                  It is everyone's business if we have to pay for 14 kids, mother etc.. And who is thinking of the children? Most times in multiple births there are health problems. How is that thinking of the children. Some or all of them might possibly have health issues, serious ones. What happend to having one at a time.

                  {"commentId":5152906,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"dduell"}
                    #1.44 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 3:33 PM EST
                    {"commentId":5165988,"authorDomain":"skinnytie"}

                    I do not understand this at all? Whan the story first hit the airwaves all I heard was just leave us alone! People who have kids have got to raise their own kids or sometimes Grandmaw and paw does or at least helps. Why does she feel that she should get free food, diapers and a house, talk shows and money from the government for her kids? This is so crazy and anyone that gives this person a red cent will never get my business again nor will I watch a talk show that has this person on it. There was a day when a person had respect for them selves and did not take handouts without returning the favor! To have kids to make money.... I guess to some this is the oldest write off in the book and that is how and only way they live because they are to lazy to do it the old fashion way.. Work for it! My opinion is my opinion but by the way it sounds is it is also my tax dollars! Does anyone know how much is a tax write off for a single parent? How much goevernment help funds does she get? Food stamps? Free school lunches, clothes etc.? Please email me at skinnytie@yahoo.com I would like to start a form of signatures against this happening again. This is wrong, wrong for ALL the wrong reasons!

                    {"commentId":5165988,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"skinnytie"}
                    • 2 votes
                    #1.45 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:38 AM EST
                    {"commentId":5166003,"authorDomain":"skinnytie"}

                    I do not understand this at all? Whan the story first hit the airwaves all I heard was just leave us alone! People who have kids have got to raise their own kids or sometimes Grandmaw and paw does or at least helps. Why does she feel that she should get free food, diapers and a house, talk shows and money from the government for her kids? This is so crazy and anyone that gives this person a red cent will never get my business again nor will I watch a talk show that has this person on it. There was a day when a person had respect for them selves and did not take handouts without returning the favor! To have kids to make money.... I guess to some this is the oldest write off in the book and that is how and only way they live because they are to lazy to do it the old fashion way.. Work for it! My opinion is my opinion but by the way it sounds is it is also my tax dollars! Does anyone know how much is a tax write off for a single parent? How much goevernment help funds does she get? Food stamps? Free school lunches, clothes etc.? Please email me at skinnytie@yahoo.com I would like to start a form of signatures against this happening again. This is wrong, wrong for ALL the wrong reasons!

                    {"commentId":5166003,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"skinnytie"}
                      #1.46 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:41 AM EST
                      {"commentId":5250352,"authorDomain":"julianne2saw"}

                      terrible, terrible, terrible. In haiti, some "parents" list their children as hiv positive and give them drugs which do harm them just for the money. its about this nut job being a bigger star than angelina and brad for a week and then the poor kids pay all their lives..... Dont watch any reality shows, this is not reality at all except that the taxpayers lose again.

                      {"commentId":5250352,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"julianne2saw"}
                        #1.47 - Sun Feb 8, 2009 4:25 PM EST
                        {"commentId":5370754,"authorDomain":"curtmimi-1"}

                        Seems to me that the fertility clinic is responsible for these children, and should support them when the parent can't, of won't.

                        {"commentId":5370754,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"curtmimi-1"}
                          #1.48 - Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:51 AM EST
                          {"commentId":5663623,"authorDomain":"dav-ded"}

                          The whole medical community that was involved in this should be held responsible and be able to hide behind the screen of "I'm not one to dictate the size of a family" They should have to cover the cost of raising these kids till they are 18 years of age and beyond if they go to college. Then maybe next time they would be more careful of what they are doing.

                          {"commentId":5663623,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"dav-ded"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #1.49 - Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:32 PM EST
                          Reply
                          {"commentId":5090462,"authorDomain":"erinkeithly"}

                          I think that only two -- three max -- embryos should be implanted. If triplets are the result, that's alright ... twins better ... singleton BEST!! I don't approve of this current practice of implanting so many babies. It's unfair to the babies and the other family members. I'm sorry to be blunt but if you can't have children "naturally" maybe you're not meant to have them.

                          {"commentId":5090462,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"erinkeithly"}
                          • 9 votes
                          Reply#2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:33 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5094205,"authorDomain":"crothkopf"}

                          The majority of doctors will not TRANSFER that many embryos...so it's really not current practice. The majority of high multiples comes from other ART techniques, such as clomid which stimulates the ovaries to produce several mature follicles. However, a good doctor will monitor those cycles and stop the medications if too many follicles are mature.

                          I guess I was not meant to have my three gorgeous children. I, personally, thank god for the scientific advances that made them possible.

                          {"commentId":5094205,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"crothkopf"}
                          • 5 votes
                          #2.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:01 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5094453,"authorDomain":"caroline851773"}

                          Most people who undergo fertility treatments do so and go about trying to get pregnant in an informed manner ... perhaps even more so than the population of those who can get pregnant "naturally." I have never met any doctor or fellow patient who would ever agree to transferring eight or more embryos. It is simply not standard practice.

                          What a cruel, horribly judgmental suggestion that those of us whose biology doesn't work properly aren't "meant" to have children. Are certain people "meant" to suffer other other biological malfunctions -- opportunistic diseases, cancers, and the like? It must feel quite powerful to sit on a pedestal and mete out those sorts of pronouncements on those who aren't fortunate enough to become pregnant with ease.

                          {"commentId":5094453,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"caroline851773"}
                          • 5 votes
                          #2.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:18 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5094709,"authorDomain":"wrarelywrational-online"}

                          Either you already have your quota of children or you haven't found out whether or not you can have children. Right now 1 of 3 women in the Western world needs some sort of medical assistance to get (and stay) pregnant.

                          Gotta ask yourself what's happened in the last 40 years to change our fertility? Is it an accident of nature or something more nefarious?

                          {"commentId":5094709,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"wrarelywrational-online"}
                          • 5 votes
                          #2.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:34 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5101574,"authorDomain":"arsine3463"}
                          I think that only two -- three max -- embryos should be implanted. If triplets are the result, that's alright ... twins better ... singleton BEST!

                          The disability/death rates skyrocket once you get to triplets or quadruplets. Back ten years ago (when this was of utmost importance to me) the odds for a problem were 50% at triplets and 80% at quads. At eight, it is almost a given.

                          I'm sorry to be blunt but if you can't have children "naturally" maybe you're not meant to have them.

                          I suggest you don't tell an infertility patient that. For women living with that issue, just seeing a happy, pregnant woman is tear-inducing. Infertile women already believe that there is something wrong with them, however irrational that may be.

                          {"commentId":5101574,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"arsine3463"}
                          • 6 votes
                          #2.4 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:14 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5106325,"authorDomain":"iopialaska"}

                          If you cannot have kids, ADOPT! My aunt and uncle wanted a big family and adopted 8 kids 20 years ago, 4 of them of the same family. I love my cousins I grew up with! It is selfish to want biologically YOURS, when you can have a wonderful child of your own through adoption. The kids in foster homes just want a family, dream of a mom and dad, something they may NEVER get.

                          {"commentId":5106325,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"iopialaska"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #2.5 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:23 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5116938,"authorDomain":"caroline851773"}

                          If you have not adopted children yourself, then don't tell other people that is what they should do. As it happens, I have three adopted children, and it is a difficult, painful, and potentially very expensive process in and of itself. For me, it has been incredibly rewarding to have adopted, and I wouldn't change that outcome for anything in the world. But while adoption may have been right for me, I wouldn't dare dream of telling other people it is right for them. In fact, I believe that people should not adopt unless they are cut out for the particular challenges inherent to the process!

                          ArcticWitness, I certainly hope that you have adopted children in need of homes rather than having biological children since you view the desire for biological children as selfish. That said, even if you have adopted, it is still not your place to dictate that others do so.

                          {"commentId":5116938,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"caroline851773"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #2.6 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 2:56 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5117554,"authorDomain":"lbdenning"}

                          winomaama - is it lonely up there on your pedastal? Do you really think that everyone who has children was meant to? I'll remember that the next time I see the news about a baby killed by his/her parent. Sheesh.

                          Adoption isn't a solution for everyone. It's not the responsibility of infertiles people to provide homes for children that can't stay in their own homes. Just like it's not the responsibility of fertiles to make children for those who can't.

                          {"commentId":5117554,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"lbdenning"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #2.7 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 3:48 PM EST
                          {"commentId":5177760,"authorDomain":"iopialaska"}
                          Caroline- I have three adopted children, and it is a difficult, painful, and potentially very expensive process in and of itself.

                          Welcome to motherhood! When you are a parent, of ANY child, all the above apply.

                          {"commentId":5177760,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"iopialaska"}
                            #2.8 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 3:48 PM EST
                            {"commentId":5204674,"authorDomain":"anflifestyle"}

                            It's sad to see people who are so against the idea of adopting unless you have NO other option. ie:

                            In fact, I believe that people should not adopt unless they are cut out for the particular challenges inherent to the process!

                            Just because you feel that adopting children was so horrible, doesn't mean other poeple wouldn't. And ArcticWitness is absolutely correct! Parenting children is all the same no matter where they came from, your's or someone else's womb. I have to say i've never been so upset by someone's words until I read your's! There are so many children out there that are alone without homes or parents of their own, and you want to tell people not to adopt them unless they absolutely have to?! Shame on you.

                            {"commentId":5204674,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"anflifestyle"}
                              #2.9 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:12 PM EST
                              {"commentId":5205001,"authorDomain":"sailor-anubis"}

                              I'm adopted. However I do not want to adopt! I want my own biological children! Why? Because I am the only one adopted in my family, and I want blood relatives. I don't think I could get attacted to someone else's kid. Sure, maybe that's selfish, but I only want 2 or three kids.

                              However, I don't think any of that will ever happen. I have no husband, and I make too much male hormone. That means likely I can't even get pregnant, with the cysts on the ovaries and all that jazz.

                              Besides, to adopt you have to prove you'd be a good parent with nice place for the kid to live and may have to wait for a long time if you want an infant! If you're pregnant, no one gives a crap if you have the nice place and prove you'll be a good parent! It's stupid.

                              {"commentId":5205001,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sailor-anubis"}
                              • 1 vote
                              #2.10 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:28 PM EST
                              {"commentId":5205207,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                              People aren't against adoption there against the red tape. They made it easy to be foster care and look where that's gotten. Children in and out of homes not fit for a pig. Try to adopt and they ring you over the coals in every manor possible. The expense of just going through the process disqualifies a lot of people.

                              {"commentId":5205207,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                              • 1 vote
                              #2.11 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:39 PM EST
                              {"commentId":5213636,"authorDomain":"caroline851773"}

                              I can't believe how misconstrued my comments were. Peacelovensurf, did you even read what I said? I am not against adoption! I ADORE my children -- who are adopted! What I am saying is that while adoption was right for me, it might not be for someone else, and I would not dream of telling someone else to do so without understanding their personal situation. It really bothers me when people with no fertility problems and no adopted children of their own announce to those with infertility issues that they should adopt instead of pursuing means to get pregnant and have biological kids. Most people just want biological kids -- they want to experience pregnancy and some crave that biological tie to their children. I am NOT, in fact, someone who needs that biological tie to my children, but I'm saying that we need to respect people who feel that way.

                              I am not telling people NOT to adopt. I'm telling people that it is totally insensitive to make these pronouncements that infertile couples should "just adopt," or that it is "selfish" to want biological children. If that is the case, then why shoudn't everyone adopt, regardless of their biological ability to have children?

                              Tony Williams is right. The red tape involved in adoption is a nightmare, and my point is that some people are not cut out for dealing with it -- it's an expensive process that includes sharing very personal information and justifying one's dreams to parent to virtual strangers. Even then, the rug can sometimes be yanked out from under you at the discretion of another individual or faceless agency. If you have not adopted yourself, then you probably don't realize how tricky a process it is to navigate. There are lots of bumps along the way when the control over whether you get a child is in someone else's hands. Some people prefer to go the route with IVF and other (responsible) fertility treatments, and I think it is unfair to term their journeys "selfish."

                              {"commentId":5213636,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"caroline851773"}
                              • 1 vote
                              #2.12 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:00 AM EST
                              {"commentId":5226155,"authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}

                              No one was not "MEANT" to have children. There are drug addicts who have seven. Are they more meant to have children than those who make a stable living and can support one child??? Think before you type.

                              {"commentId":5226155,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}
                                #2.13 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:10 PM EST
                                {"commentId":5235216,"authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}

                                I don't know why the previous thing I posted posted under this one. I couldn't agree with Caroline more. Adoption ISN'T for everyone and telling someone to adopt when they can't have biological children is self richeous. The process is long and many times heartbreaking as babies get given back to birthparents or birthmothers change their minds at the last minute. IVF is NOT the only term for fertility treatments that so many think. ONLY 3% of infertiles go through it(I just get to be one of those) the rest have success earlier in the process.

                                {"commentId":5235216,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}
                                  #2.14 - Sat Feb 7, 2009 11:32 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  {"commentId":5090740,"authorDomain":"lardbrick"}

                                  Not only were these eight babies born with donor sperm but her previous six children were also the product of a sperm donor. This very young woman who has been reported as less than 30 years of age is single and living with her parents. None of their financial status sounds very stable so it sounds like the state of California will be supporting not only these eight but her other six children as well.

                                  If the mother was planning on cashing in on the celebrity of this litter birth to support her brood, I think she gambled and lost. Public sentiment is not with her at all. If we contribute to this insanity, it only encourages other idiots to do the same thing.

                                  {"commentId":5090740,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"lardbrick"}
                                  • 10 votes
                                  Reply#3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:45 PM EST
                                  {"commentId":5093193,"authorDomain":"smartblonde"}

                                  I haven't read anywhere before that the kids were all from sperm donors. Could you please tell me where the reference is that said that her other 6 children were from sperm donors? Thanks. By the way, California can't even pay for it's employees or to educate it's children so I doubt it will be able to pay for 14 children.

                                  {"commentId":5093193,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"smartblonde"}
                                    #3.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:06 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5094476,"authorDomain":"linda-marty"}
                                    If the mother was planning on cashing in on the celebrity of this litter birth to support her brood, I think she gambled and lost. Public sentiment is not with her at all. If we contribute to this insanity, it only encourages other idiots to do the same thing

                                    Then what about the Duggers!?? They are parading their 19 children around like freaks on reality shows and daytime talk shows. They don't deserve attention nor any money to help them raise their freakish army of choice. Why don't the networks cancel their shows? They preach about the sanctity of children and then go on to discipline the children with quotes from the Bible. They make the older children work as nannies, cooks, and housekeepers for their younger children. They supposedly homeschool them (how and with what time? God only knows!). The girls are forced to wear all the same dresses with anklets and peter pan collars, while the boys get khakis and polo shirts. I'm sure the only math they learn at home is how to penny pinch, calculate enough food in a meal for 21 people, and how to mooch off of others to get them to pay for stuff they need like a house, trips to talk shows (probably their only way to take the kids on vacation...if you call parading around like freaks a vacation). Why do the networks have sponsors willing to pay for the Duggers to preach their caveman mentality? I refuse to watch any programs these losers are on. Get a life Duggers!! Quit trying to say you are self sufficient when it's a big farse. I hope this psychologically unstable woman with now 14 children is not given any help raising these children and heaven forbid, a reality show! C'mon - stop the insanity now!

                                    {"commentId":5094476,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"linda-marty"}
                                    • 4 votes
                                    #3.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:20 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5095023,"authorDomain":"rosssgal"}

                                    laurisarno, what is your deal with the Duggars? Maybe jealous? Maybe scared? This is probably one of the most awesome families in America. They teach their kids responsiblity, they teach them finances, as you suggested w/ the penny pinching remark. As far as their mode of dress, they are not dressed as sluts, as a lot of girls are. And Khaki's for the boys? What's the problem with that? Do you want them to wear blue jeans down around their behind? This family has standards, something missing in todays' society. Maybe they are not the looser, maybe they just have something your family does not. And it bothers you.

                                    {"commentId":5095023,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"rosssgal"}
                                    • 2 votes
                                    #3.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:53 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5095681,"authorDomain":"pete-5"}

                                    To Smartblond,

                                    If you had gotten your butt away from the computer for a while and listened to the news this evening, you would have found out a lot more about this poor maligned woman.

                                    She is unmarried, and get this, SHE WORKS AT THE FERTILITY CLINIC!

                                    Your comment about the Duggars is somewhere in left field, they are in the same class as this dingbat. No one in this day and age of overpopulation needs to have massive families. Years ago when many of the children died before reaching maturity having large families made sure that the human race survived. Unfortunately, we have through the benefits of modern medicine survived to the point that we now compare favorably to being a planet wide cancer.

                                    In the past sixty years, the population of this blue-green marble has jumped from 2.5 billion to just a frogs hair under seven billion. We are doing to Earth what rabbits did to Australia.

                                    How many are seven billion?If you had every person now alive stand on lines drawn two feet apart around the equator. the line would wrap around the planet approximately one hundred and six times!

                                    My personal opinion is that any woman delivering her second live birth should be sterilized. Just to make sure that you women that read this can't claim that I'm sexist, each man that has fathered two live births should have an equivalent procedure.

                                    I fathered two sons and then had a vasectomy......When my first wife took off and got pregnant elsewhere, I married a lady whose husband had left for greener pastures, and added two stepsons the the household. No regrets whatsoever.

                                    People on Newsvine have commented on China having a law limiting families to one child..........if not in my remaining few years, probably within my children's lifetime there will be worldwide mandatory birth control. If not, Mother Earth will impose it herself, and no one alive at the time will be happy about it.

                                    The woman should be institutionalized as a danger to herself. The doctors (quacks?) that assisted in this disaster should have their licences to practice revoked and be required to pay all current and future medical expenses and pay for support for the eight babies until they graduate from college. Kaiser isn't going to lose a penny on this fiasco, they'll just raise their rates to make up the difference.

                                    To the lady that commented on the dropping fertility rates, blame it on the governments of the world.

                                    For many years, we (the human race) have sent millions of the worlds finest physical and mental specimens off to die in combat while the 4F's have remained home to turn the gene pool into a cess pool - think about that for at least two or three seconds!

                                    {"commentId":5095681,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"pete-5"}
                                    • 4 votes
                                    #3.4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:31 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5099569,"authorDomain":"karb63"}

                                    sad but true... I just hope these babies will be healthy with no problems like mental handicappes, Learning problems and the list goes on. The clinic should in no way have done this, single mothers with 6 children already one has to ask WHY????

                                    {"commentId":5099569,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"karb63"}
                                    • 1 vote
                                    #3.5 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:49 AM EST
                                    Reply
                                    {"commentId":5091018,"authorDomain":"Legofan"}

                                    there really should be a limit on how many eggs should be inplanted.

                                    In todays ecomony, can u just imagaine trying to properly care for 14 children (i'm talking about food, clothing and toys)

                                    The poor kids are doomed to being watched and followed up on like the are circus freaks

                                    {"commentId":5091018,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Legofan"}
                                    • 3 votes
                                    Reply#4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:59 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5091213,"authorDomain":"teacherlady"}

                                    That's enough babies to give eight infertile couples a chance to be parents. What on earth does a single parent of six need eight more babies for? Sounds like welfare will be pickng up the tab for the next 18 years.

                                    {"commentId":5091213,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"teacherlady"}
                                    • 13 votes
                                    Reply#5 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:10 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5094521,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

                                    Hello?
                                    The problem is not finding fertile embryos.

                                    {"commentId":5094521,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
                                    • 1 vote
                                    #5.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:22 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":5235241,"authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}

                                    Not finding Fertile Embryos??? You odviously have no idea what you are talking about.

                                    {"commentId":5235241,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jamiegraham1979"}
                                      #5.2 - Sat Feb 7, 2009 11:34 AM EST
                                      Reply
                                      {"commentId":5091294,"authorDomain":"civil-cindy"}

                                      Why on this earth would anyone want more children after having 6?  And why does she need fertility treatments--she has 6, obviously the fertility gods have blessed her already.  I think it's irresponsible.  How can you give time to 14 children?  How would you even feed them?  Educate them?  Pay the mountain of medical bills for the 8 preemies, much less the routine insurance and medical bills for the other 8?  If she and her family can handle it, more power to them,but if no father is in the picture and if she dies, no one will take 14 kids.  I make decent money and have only one child but am concerned about the ability to send him to college.  I can't even imagine her wanting to do this or any doctor willing to help her do this. 

                                      {"commentId":5091294,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"civil-cindy"}
                                      • 9 votes
                                      Reply#6 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:13 PM EST
                                      {"commentId":5096304,"authorDomain":"mysteryone1950"}

                                      However, the children's grandmother, Angela Suleman, told The Associated Press her daughter resorted to in vitro fertilization because "her fallopian tubes are plugged up" and she had trouble conceiving.

                                      Doctors said the woman rejected an offer from doctors to abort some of the embryos.

                                      Suleman said her daughter is not married. It was not clear who the father of the babies is. Her six other children range in age from 2 to 7.

                                      Records show that she held a psychiatric technician's license from 1997 to 2002. It was unclear whether she is now employed.

                                      MORE HERE

                                      {"commentId":5096304,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mysteryone1950"}
                                        #6.1 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:13 AM EST
                                        {"commentId":5112551,"authorDomain":"civil-cindy"}

                                        Thank you, I read the article already.

                                        {"commentId":5112551,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"civil-cindy"}
                                          #6.2 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 8:30 AM EST
                                          Reply
                                          {"commentId":5091438,"authorDomain":"jessica-7"}

                                          I do not support the government being in control of who can have children and how many. This is a moral issue and should not be discussed as a legal issue. I think doctors should create an industry standard regarding how many eggs are harvested and implanted. Humans are not cats and we are not meant to have children in litters.

                                          That being said, we as a society need to take some responsibility. Over the past (at least) 10 years, this has been treated as “so cute” and “sweet” by us (via the media). Doesn’t one of the families have their own realty show? I wonder if the hundreds, if not thousands, of children that would have otherwise been adopted but instead grew up in foster homes or State custody, feel these litters of babies are cute. I have sympathy for those who cannot have their own biological children. I am sure it is heartbreaking. I implore those who cannot have their own biological children to ADOPT. There are so many wonderful, beautiful children who need good homes. If you believe in God, you may believe there is a reason for everything and everything is part of His plan. Perhaps your inability to have a biological child is God’s way of helping you find that child, meant for you, through adoption.

                                          {"commentId":5091438,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jessica-7"}
                                          • 3 votes
                                          Reply#7 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:21 PM EST
                                          {"commentId":5097576,"authorDomain":"md588909"}

                                          Exactly. No one talks about how it will be for these kids. Even if she does have enough money to pay for them, she can't give them the proper love and attention. My boyfriend's father is one of 12 that were spread out in years w/ no fertility help, and yet they all seem to dislike each other. When you see them at a family reunion, you get the feeling they're still fighting for attention. And they were spread out enough that some were out of the house by the time the youngest ones were born. I can't even imagine having 7 siblings your own age. You don't even get one day a week of personal attention.

                                          {"commentId":5097576,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"md588909"}
                                          • 2 votes
                                          #7.1 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:54 AM EST
                                          {"commentId":5101309,"authorDomain":"cmfejzullah"}

                                          Maggie, that is also my problem with it. The attention that the 14 children will get. I think this is part of the reason you don't have eight children naturally. No matter what you do, with 14 you can not possibly, especially as a single parent, ever give all those children the attention that they should be getting. It in a way becomes very unfair to all of these children.

                                          {"commentId":5101309,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"cmfejzullah"}
                                          • 2 votes
                                          #7.2 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:57 AM EST
                                          Reply
                                          {"commentId":5091748,"authorDomain":"freshesttomato"}

                                          none of my business, none of your business.

                                          {"commentId":5091748,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"freshesttomato"}
                                          • 2 votes
                                          Reply#8 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:38 PM EST
                                          {"commentId":5092631,"authorDomain":"crotchity"}

                                          Oh yeah it our business. World resourses. Taxpayer money. Abuse of limited health care...there is only so many doctors, hospitals, etc. We all subsidize through tax deductions given per child. There are sooooo many ways it is our business.

                                          {"commentId":5092631,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"crotchity"}
                                          • 17 votes
                                          #8.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:33 PM EST
                                          {"commentId":5092734,"authorDomain":"smazey"}

                                          it most certainly is the world's business. I live here too and don't want my world overpopulated by people like this self-centered woman.

                                          {"commentId":5092734,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"smazey"}
                                          • 14 votes
                                          #8.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:40 PM EST
                                          {"commentId":5092819,"authorDomain":"zippygiggle"}

                                          yes it is our business. Who do you think is going to end up paying for these babies???

                                          If she has medical insurance, I am in such disbelief that they would even pay for fertility treatments for a (single ?)mom with 6 other kids (and in that group is a set of twins). If she does not have insurance then I hope the State of California isn't considering it as they cannot even afford to pay their employees!

                                          I don't care how good of a Mom/Dad you are, FOURTEEN kids under the age of 7!!! You have to be a loon. I am glad Grandpa & Grandma said how great this is. They better be held responsible to pay for all of this if Mom cannot! They allowed it, they can bail her out.

                                          I heard on TV that in one year those 8 babies will go through 20,000 diapers. Normally I would say, " hey come on corporate America , step up and help these people with some donations" Now? Forget it! Again 20,000 diapers!!!

                                          In the end, all of us taxpayers will pay for this. If MY $$$ are to be spent, let it be for adoptions for parents who cannot come up with the $$$ to give a loving home to a kid or to put food on a struggling families plate so the kids don't starve. Not this wack-a-doodle!

                                          {"commentId":5092819,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"zippygiggle"}
                                            #8.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:45 PM EST
                                            {"commentId":5092885,"authorDomain":"gypsy214"}

                                            It is indeed our business. If the mother has insurance coverage, this kind of situation affects EVERYONE's premiums. If she doesn't, then MY tax dollars (and yours) will be paying, at minimum, the hospital bills (which will run into seven figures) and very possibly supporting these children for the next 18 years. And above and beyond the financial aspect, we will ALL be affected by the overuse of natural resources that will be caused by having 14 children.

                                            {"commentId":5092885,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"gypsy214"}
                                            • 12 votes
                                            #8.4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:49 PM EST
                                            {"commentId":5093196,"authorDomain":"mompod"}

                                            It certainly is nobody's business but their own. Nobody has reproductive rights beyond their own.

                                            As far as natural resources are concerned, every person born on the face of this earth has a natural born right to resources. Medical insurance complaints are beside the point and not a valid argument to restrict the reproduction of a person and certainly not a person protected with natural born rights under a Constitution.

                                            The next time our world has a bottleneck reduction in population, such as it did with the eruption of Mt. Toba, 74,000 years ago, folks might wish they had left 14 kids behind to spread their genes!

                                            {"commentId":5093196,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mompod"}
                                              #8.5 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:06 PM EST
                                              {"commentId":5094548,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

                                              Oh, it is NOT your business! This sort of thing is extremely rare.

                                              What is bringing down the medical system is regular people who are too lazy to make an appointment with their regular doctor going to the ER. What is bringing down the medical system is old people being given incredible care so they can survive another few weeks.

                                              {"commentId":5094548,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #8.6 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:24 PM EST
                                              {"commentId":5094882,"authorDomain":"firemedic258"}

                                              Yes, John, it may be rare, but it also just created EIGHT children. These EIGHT children will possibly have long-term health problems that will cost LOTS of money and resources. This is OUR business when there is a possibility the mother can't pay for it (if she could pay for ALL of it, I would say, it was only her business.) The mother is nearly $1 million in debt. Let's get real. WE will be paying these bills.

                                              {"commentId":5094882,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"firemedic258"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #8.7 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:45 PM EST
                                              {"commentId":5106710,"authorDomain":"goodphuggy"}

                                              Oh, it is NOT your business! This sort of thing is extremely rare.

                                              What is bringing down the medical system is regular people who are too lazy to make an appointment with their regular doctor going to the ER. What is bringing down the medical system is old people being given incredible care so they can survive another few weeks.

                                              No, you dipwit. What IS bringing down the medical system is all the illegals coming in here jumping on the free medical care bandwagon, and DO NOT make the stupid assumption that it isn't true. The other thing is that broodsows like this one and other breeders that don't take responsibility for their own actions.

                                              Do us elderly people a huge favor. Do NOT study us, as according to your theory, you will be more than willing to start putting us down like unwanted strays. As a fully grown and elderly person, and in case your Mama didn't tell you. respect your elders, boy.

                                              {"commentId":5106710,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"goodphuggy"}
                                                #8.8 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 PM EST
                                                {"commentId":5204894,"authorDomain":"anflifestyle"}

                                                John, how dare you talk about elders that way!!! How DARE you! I can't wait until you are considered a senior citizen, I wonder how you would treat yourself!

                                                When John is old and sick, someone do me a favor and cut off his life support without his consent, so he feels what it's like. What it's like to have given SO MUCH to the world and then get your life ripped away from you without you even getting a word in.

                                                You're disgusting.

                                                {"commentId":5204894,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"anflifestyle"}
                                                  #8.9 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:23 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  {"commentId":5091832,"authorDomain":"cyml"}

                                                  As an NICU nurse, I felt this was a blatant abuse of fertility treatments by both the Dr and the mom. If you already have six children as a single parent, a dr should not have o.k.'d this type of procedure or performed it for that matter. This is an ethical decision that should have been pondered. Instead the state of California probably paid for her fertility treatment and will end up paying for all of her children. I hope that the diaper companies, formula companies, ect don't play into to this and offer any help whatsoever. The Dr. needs to be investigated for his own personal ethical decision instead of making decisions that aloow people to bleed the welfare system.

                                                  {"commentId":5091832,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"cyml"}
                                                  • 14 votes
                                                  Reply#9 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:43 PM EST
                                                  {"commentId":5093050,"authorDomain":"kinnes123"}

                                                  Right on, Vicki, this doctor should be investigated. Are there any guidelines at all?

                                                  {"commentId":5093050,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"kinnes123"}
                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  #9.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:59 PM EST
                                                  {"commentId":5094587,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

                                                  Oh, right. Paging Dr. God!

                                                  How is it the doctor's decision how many children this woman should have? How is it "ethical" for a doctor to dictate that?

                                                  Is it ethical for a doctor to dictate that a patient must have a child she is pregnant with? No. So how is the reverse true?

                                                  Face it. You're a PITA busybody.

                                                  {"commentId":5094587,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #9.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:27 PM EST
                                                  {"commentId":5094941,"authorDomain":"firemedic258"}

                                                  You are correct, John, in saying that a doctor cannot dictate to a woman whether or not she must have a child when she is already pregnant. He can advise, listen, guide, ect. However, when she is NOT pregnant and the woman requires HIS or HER assistance in getting pregnant, the physician then plays a significant decision in this matter including how many embryos (and therefore children) the woman will have.

                                                  {"commentId":5094941,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"firemedic258"}
                                                  • 4 votes
                                                  #9.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:48 PM EST
                                                  {"commentId":5099647,"authorDomain":"karb63"}

                                                  Let the doctor pay all her bills and not the tax payers. Because chances are ( I hope not but there is a good chance) something will be wrong with these kids. These treatments are meant for women/men who CANT get pregnant not for those who already have six, and she doesn't know who the father is OMG, these poor kids I feel sorry for them.. Sorry... Lord help them all

                                                  {"commentId":5099647,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"karb63"}
                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #9.4 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:56 AM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  {"commentId":5092141,"authorDomain":"vickyfromthenorth"}

                                                  Who does this woman think she is? A Duggard?

                                                  {"commentId":5092141,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"vickyfromthenorth"}
                                                    Reply#10 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:02 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5092733,"authorDomain":"young-2"}

                                                    The Duggard family is collectively repulsive (mainly mother and father).

                                                    {"commentId":5092733,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"young-2"}
                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #10.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:40 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5092784,"authorDomain":"Nancy1969"}

                                                    It's spelled "Duggar"....but yes, they are repulsive too.

                                                    {"commentId":5092784,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Nancy1969"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #10.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:43 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5092906,"authorDomain":"lauriemiller01"}

                                                    However, the Duggar's are totally financially debt free and do manage quite well with their brood. I certainly wouldn't have that many kids, but at least they're not living off the government for support.

                                                    No one really knows just yet anything about this mom of 8. I personally don't understand any doctor approving of implanting more than one embryo into her. Under 30, 6 kids so close in age?? Some people just don't think - they'd rather have the notoriety and face time on tv.

                                                    {"commentId":5092906,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"lauriemiller01"}
                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #10.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:50 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5093537,"authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}

                                                    The Duggars may appear to be financially free, but they sold out their kids to tv. They have tv shows and lots of assistance. Their home is also a "church" and therefore they live tax free. Must be nice. Just because they have a bunch of kids.

                                                    {"commentId":5093537,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}
                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    #10.4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:26 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5093578,"authorDomain":"potvinb"}

                                                    Why anyone would want to intentionally drop a litter like that is beyond me - and the Duggars creep me out - their family picture looks like a freak show / mini cult.

                                                    {"commentId":5093578,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"potvinb"}
                                                    • 5 votes
                                                    #10.5 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:27 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5094036,"authorDomain":"johanna-wozny"}

                                                    Maybe getting a show on a network like TLC was her motive. That network loves freak shows like this.

                                                    {"commentId":5094036,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"johanna-wozny"}
                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #10.6 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:53 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":5092240,"authorDomain":"sbrown43"}

                                                    Is Kaiser Permanente paying for this? If I were one of their insured, who WOULD eventually help pay for this travesty, I WOULD BE PISSED!

                                                    {"commentId":5092240,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"sbrown43"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#11 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:08 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5104008,"authorDomain":"kathybean60"}

                                                    A man killed his five children, wife and self last week or week before, because he and his wife both lost their jobs at KAISER PERMANENTE. Talk about both ends of the spectrum.

                                                    {"commentId":5104008,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"kathybean60"}
                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #11.1 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:19 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":5092470,"authorDomain":"beowulf39"}

                                                    There is nothing in this story that demonstrates rational, mature behavior, both on the part of the mother and her family and the doctors who aided this woman in her possibly insane quest.

                                                    {"commentId":5092470,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"beowulf39"}
                                                    • 10 votes
                                                    Reply#12 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:22 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5096118,"authorDomain":"barry-r"}

                                                    Tom -- Best of all, this woman was employed as a psychiatric aide. OMG, does this tell you anything about the mental health department. I think maybe John T. may be employed by them as well.

                                                    {"commentId":5096118,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"barry-r"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #12.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:59 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":5092537,"authorDomain":"alangwyn819"}

                                                    you said it all tom !!!

                                                    {"commentId":5092537,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"alangwyn819"}
                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#13 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:27 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5092556,"authorDomain":"mussers"}

                                                    I think that the state should step in take all 14 children into protective custody and examine the mother's mental and emotional stability. Who in their right mind (who already has 6 kids) goes to a fertility clinic to have more?

                                                    Where is the accountability as far as the fertility doctor is concerned. Did he/she check to see if this women had children?

                                                    The female human body is not made to bring 8 children into the world at one time!

                                                    I feel for all of her children they are the ones going to suffer.

                                                    {"commentId":5092556,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"mussers"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#14 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5093222,"authorDomain":"llepthien"}

                                                    She should be charged with "littering" (pun intended).

                                                    {"commentId":5093222,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"llepthien"}
                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #14.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:07 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5093423,"authorDomain":"smrtcookie04"}

                                                    What this young woman did was indeed irresponsible. The doctor probably would have been sued had he denied her fertility treaments. But what we DO NOT NEED in America, the land of the free, are social fascist butt-in-skis who think they should decide life issues for everyone else. "Protective custody" indeed! Live YOUR life responsibly, and let everyone else take care of their own lives. If they commit a crime, then it is YOUR business, but not until.

                                                    {"commentId":5093423,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"smrtcookie04"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #14.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:19 PM EST
                                                    {"commentId":5093873,"authorDomain":"tracyh451"}

                                                    I would agree that CPS involvement would not be appropriate. However, there are some serious ethical questions here that could possibly be interpreted as child abuse. One, I find it hard to accept that a woman with six children under the age of 8 has fertility problems. The only reason I can think of for someone without fertility problems to have IVF is to gaurantee high order multiples. Now, knowing what we all know (and I hope that a 33 year old woman with six kids would know)about high order multiples it seems that she may have intentionally put all of these children at risk of serious physical and developmental disabilities, serious health problems, or death. If she did not need fertility treatments, which seems logical if not provable, then placing these children at risk just for whatever she got out of having high order multiples (attention, money, whatever) seems medically neglectful and borders on child abuse.

                                                    {"commentId":5093873,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"tracyh451"}
                                                      #14.3 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:44 PM EST
                                                      {"commentId":5094619,"authorDomain":"Toradze"}

                                                      Oh, get a life you jerks.

                                                      {"commentId":5094619,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Toradze"}
                                                        #14.4 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:29 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5095088,"authorDomain":"millerfamily93"}

                                                        You must be her father or at least related to defend a free loader on our society.

                                                        {"commentId":5095088,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"millerfamily93"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #14.5 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:57 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5095942,"authorDomain":"hannah2775"}

                                                        John T,

                                                        You most definitely NEED to get a life, your comments are all irrational and border on mentally illness as well! you say you are in medical research? All this woman wanted was attention, if she wanted more children, why didn't she adopt?

                                                        also, if you are over 50, why are you so negative about our elderly getting care? Don't you think they have earned the right to get care? they have paid their dues to society? You, yourself will be in this situation sooner rather than later, will you not want care to help prolong your life?

                                                        {"commentId":5095942,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"hannah2775"}
                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        #14.6 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:46 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5096136,"authorDomain":"darinhornsby"}

                                                        John, I do not understand why you support this complete selfish idiot. Your illogical arguments that this freeloader and her litter of 8 will not be a huge burden on society is ridiculous. You can argue exact amounts, but you cannot deny that this will cost a fortune in hospital costs. Furthermore, they are expecting long term issues with these children. Who knows how much that will cost. And seeing that she tried to dump nearly a $1 MM in debt is further proof that she will continue to dump the cost of her stupid decisions on the rest of us.

                                                        Because you've failed to make one grounded point, I fail to see why you are even defending her? You completely discounted yourself by randomly throwing out the race card. Like many on this board, I didn't know she wasn't white. Why would that even matter? Maybe you are the racist?

                                                        Although this woman has the right to do what she did, it doesn't make it right. For everyone pointing the finger at the Doctor, although he's a fool, the full blame needs to be placed on this woman. It was her decision and all accountability is hers.

                                                        People like this are a drain on society. If it were up to me, people would be penalized for dumb, reckless decisions, rather than being paid for them (i.e. welfare).

                                                        {"commentId":5096136,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"darinhornsby"}
                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        #14.7 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:01 AM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5096684,"authorDomain":"windtempest69"}

                                                        I don't agree that a doctor should be able to decide to tell any woman how many kids she can have but I do think this doctor should not have planted so many embryos.

                                                        The Duggars.... I don't know what the hell those people are thinking.

                                                        {"commentId":5096684,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"windtempest69"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.8 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:44 AM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5104505,"authorDomain":"yeandels"}

                                                        Send the NICU bill to John.......This is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm an RN. Go to any hospital, any day, any town and 15 year-old girls are having babies....by the time they are 30 they are grandmothers and at 45 they are great-grandmothers. These babies don't have a chance and the entire health-care system is crumbling apart....

                                                        {"commentId":5104505,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"yeandels"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.9 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:56 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        {"commentId":5092558,"authorDomain":"veffers"}

                                                        Isn't this proof enough that man has taken over the power of God and that scares me to death. His will be done, not a Doctor.

                                                        {"commentId":5092558,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"veffers"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#15 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5092560,"authorDomain":"conspiritist"}

                                                        Fertility treatment should be restricted to those who are unable to conceive normally who do not have children yet. If you've had six already your fertility is not in question. And if this procedure has the risk to the fetus thats's been discribed, I don't see how a doctor isn't violating his Hypocratic oath to do no harm. It sounds to me that this causes the potential for harm to both the mother and the fetuses. Plus it bothers me that mothers would be ok with their children having birth defects just so they can fufill their selfish desire to reproduce no matter what the cost.

                                                        {"commentId":5092560,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"conspiritist"}
                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        Reply#16 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5117657,"authorDomain":"lbdenning"}

                                                        So someone who has 1 child through fertility treatments and would like to have 1 more shouldn't be allowed to because of this one case?

                                                        {"commentId":5117657,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"lbdenning"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #16.1 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 3:59 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        {"commentId":5092582,"authorDomain":"black-widow"}

                                                        This kind of procedure should be reserved for people having trouble conceiving - and with no more than with 0-2 children. The parent(s) should in a stable financial situation (so that they can provide for their children and pay their own bills). Implanting a litter should not be an option.

                                                        In this situation the doctor and the patient should have their ethics (and their heads) examined.

                                                        {"commentId":5092582,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"black-widow"}
                                                        • 7 votes
                                                        Reply#17 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:29 PM EST
                                                        {"commentId":5092689,"authorDomain":"bhoppy7"}

                                                        Agreed!

                                                        {"commentId":5092689,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"bhoppy7"}
                                                          #17.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:37 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          {"commentId":5092591,"authorDomain":"chris-walkenbach"}

                                                          Kaiser Permanentes slogan is "thrive", not make a welfare case! Sure this woman had a Pshychiatric Licence if I read the MSNBC article correct, but she held it from 1997-2002. She must have gotten loads of money, but she sounds like she squandered it all. Plus living with your parents is okay, but living with 6 kids and 8 more on the way, in a small house no less! Plus she is paying debt on two homes. Sounds like it was a winfall for the hospital, but she need psychiatric help if all of what was written about her is correct. I don't think she IS looking for welfare, perhaps she was just mentally ill. The media can be a great friend, but also the enemy to normal society. Hyping things that are really a bad idea sometimes.

                                                          {"commentId":5092591,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"chris-walkenbach"}
                                                            Reply#18 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:30 PM EST
                                                            {"commentId":5104540,"authorDomain":"yeandels"}

                                                            The hospital will boot them all out of there asap -- especially now that the press on this Brady Bunch is negative......

                                                            {"commentId":5104540,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"yeandels"}
                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #18.1 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:58 PM EST
                                                            Reply
                                                            {"commentId":5092598,"authorDomain":"ooo8"}

                                                            Ummmmmm can anyone say Duggard? Goslings? or anyone of those large families that have tv shows...(spell check on that last name). It' doesn't matter how many kids you have or if it's natural or with some sort of medical help. People need to focus on if they can be cared for properly, if so then leave it alone. She shouldn't be crucified just becuase she has many children, but if she can't care for them then that is a different story...

                                                            {"commentId":5092598,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"ooo8"}
                                                              Reply#19 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:30 PM EST
                                                              {"commentId":5099716,"authorDomain":"karb63"}

                                                              How bout the ones who had two kids already kate plus 8 or something like that. They go to Disneyland and all that, heck who can afford that nowdays, not I. And I only have two kids

                                                              {"commentId":5099716,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"karb63"}
                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #19.1 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:02 AM EST
                                                              {"commentId":5099751,"authorDomain":"karb63"}

                                                              sorry, also we will find out who will take care of them. Hopefully her insurance will cover all and it won't be past on to the others with the same insurance... I'm crossing my fingers that these kids will have their needs taken care of, because in all honestly with her as the only parent I don't see it happening. I'm not her, but in no way would I bring that many children into this world.

                                                              {"commentId":5099751,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"karb63"}
                                                                #19.2 - Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:05 AM EST
                                                                {"commentId":5125973,"authorDomain":"bracelets08"}

                                                                Jon & Kate don't pay for those vacations, the companies do for free publicity. They must also make a fortune off those kids cause neither of them work besides appearances and the books she's wrote or is writing.

                                                                {"commentId":5125973,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"bracelets08"}
                                                                  #19.3 - Mon Feb 2, 2009 10:23 AM EST
                                                                  {"commentId":5249504,"authorDomain":"Pat-293163"}

                                                                  Jon has a full time job!

                                                                  {"commentId":5249504,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"Pat-293163"}
                                                                    #19.4 - Sun Feb 8, 2009 3:04 PM EST
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    {"commentId":5092602,"authorDomain":"megamomm1"}

                                                                    she paid for it by using her college loan - heard she had it done in mexico, where she is from. not married - her father is from iraq. cost for one preemie is 400,000, so hospital bill at least 3.2 mil. costs couple million to raise a kid - so these people have enough money to take care of all these kids - if so why do such millionaires live in a modest home and why did they file for bankruptcy. so, when do We get to see Our kids - we will support them

                                                                    {"commentId":5092602,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"megamomm1"}
                                                                      Reply#20 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:31 PM EST
                                                                      {"commentId":5120469,"authorDomain":"njtomiami"}

                                                                      This woman needs to have her head examined! She is a nut job. Here is the best part, America is convinced Gay people should not be allowed to adopt. Because gay is not "normal"?

                                                                      {"commentId":5120469,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"njtomiami"}
                                                                        #20.1 - Sun Feb 1, 2009 8:54 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        {"commentId":5092621,"authorDomain":"walnetto"}

                                                                        I wonder if this litter is related to one of the religious breeding programs - Catholic, Mormon, etc. The mother must be at least psychologically compromised, if not mentally ill, leaving the possibility that the kids also will be off-kilter. And we will be paying for them!

                                                                        {"commentId":5092621,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"walnetto"}
                                                                          Reply#21 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:32 PM EST
                                                                          {"commentId":5092636,"authorDomain":"cbuckus"}

                                                                          I don't believe that any woman no matter how much of an awesome mother she is, can physically and mentally take care of 8 babies together at once. My mother had 7, myself being the oldest, we were all two and three years apart. The youngest child was born handicapped. Mom had her days where she felt she would go crazy, but we were old enough to pair off and play, us girls with their playmates, and the boys with theirs. My mom would be a frazzled mess if she had to deal with 8 infants at once. I don't see how any woman can claim they can take care of all these children alone. I hope she has alot of family and friends to support her. It would make the taxpayers very angry if she thinks that we should support her in this foolishness.

                                                                          {"commentId":5092636,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"cbuckus"}
                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          Reply#22 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:33 PM EST
                                                                          {"commentId":5092841,"authorDomain":"young-2"}

                                                                          I do not have children beause my mother made it look like the worst job in the world. She had six children and went bonzo. As a tribute to her, I never had them. This women will soon get everything she deserves. Fourteen crying children at one time--no way. She is mentally ill and this should have been examined before this ill-fated proposition.

                                                                          Can she love these 14 children unconditionally? Can she afford to put them through college? I doubt it.

                                                                          My worst nightmare would be her current life situation. Single, living with Mommy and Daddy with 14 kids. HeII, one child would scare me. Good luck, idiots!

                                                                          {"commentId":5092841,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"young-2"}
                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #22.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:46 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          {"commentId":5092643,"authorDomain":"robf"}

                                                                          Just because modern medicine now allows us to engineer mega-multiple births doesn't mean we should. Doctors who hide behind this fig leaf of "who am I to decide" are behaving recklessly. Many if not most of the children who survive will be consigned to life-long health problems. Their childhood will be more closely resemble a daycare center. Taxpayers will be picking up the tab for many hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of dollars, not just for the pregnancy and birth, but for two decades of subsidies for medical care, tuition assistance, home care assistance, diapers, etc. So long as these pregnancies depend upon high-tech intervention and massive taxpayer & insurer subsidies, it is not simply the mother's decision.

                                                                          {"commentId":5092643,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"robf"}
                                                                          • 4 votes
                                                                          Reply#23 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:33 PM EST
                                                                          {"commentId":5092986,"authorDomain":"jaallard"}

                                                                          Amen to that! Having children stops being a parent's choice when you start needing MY money to do it -- that means whether it be welfare, tuition assistance, medicaid, higher insurance premiums, or charity. If you can't afford to feed, clothe & educate children, you have no business having them.

                                                                          {"commentId":5092986,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"jaallard"}
                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          #23.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:55 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          {"commentId":5092694,"authorDomain":"smazey"}

                                                                          I think the whole thing is totally disgusting.  There are already way too many people on this earth.  Who does she think she is?

                                                                          {"commentId":5092694,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"smazey"}
                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          Reply#24 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:37 PM EST
                                                                          {"commentId":5095875,"authorDomain":"andreame6"}

                                                                          The woman is clearly more than a little unstable. It is the height of ignorance and arrogance to think that her DNA is important enough to breed like a rabbit in an already grossly overpopulated world.

                                                                          {"commentId":5095875,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"andreame6"}
                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #24.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:42 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          {"commentId":5092719,"authorDomain":"michaelarnold-contact"}

                                                                          This is no different than animal hoarders. Probably worse since the planet has to support them all. People have this primal urge to breed and breed some more, no matter what the costs.

                                                                          Its a sickness and should be treated & acknowledged as such.

                                                                          This is 2009, not the dark ages.

                                                                          Get a clue Cave People.

                                                                          {"commentId":5092719,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"michaelarnold-contact"}
                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          Reply#25 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:39 PM EST
                                                                          {"commentId":5092858,"authorDomain":"chris-walkenbach"}

                                                                          My Great Grandfather had 10 kids, he was a German Catholic immigrant, but this was in the early 1900's. Not many people in first world nations (The US, Canada, and Europe, Australlia, Japan) would dream of having that many kids now. It's Sick.

                                                                          {"commentId":5092858,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"chris-walkenbach"}
                                                                            #25.1 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:47 PM EST
                                                                            {"commentId":5093686,"authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}

                                                                            In that era, large families were needed. Farming needed to be done! The land needed to be settled. You had large families to fill the need of workers. Plus, they didn't live as long. Birth control was not heard of either. It was out of necessity. My great grandmother had 14.

                                                                            {"commentId":5093686,"threadId":"486623","contentId":"2375464","authorDomain":"laschulz0309"}
                                                                              #25.2 - Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:34 PM EST
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