Do you think this woman cares if she is a "good" parent or not. When are these kind of people going to be stopped from taking advantage of the system. Anything goes because these people are being allowed and rewarded for what they do. For instance now she will get tv time and book contracts even though she is ignorant and not working or supporting all these kids that she has. Here goes another case for WELFARE. Maybe she will have a few more kids so that she can collect more money from the system.

i see her dad is bailing to go back to iraq for his job...what a mad house, he's smart to leave...as far as the mother....well you can't help but give your love, but the daughter needs her head examined...i wonder if her spokesperson is donating her time, or maybe she will have a partial rights to her own book deal...i agree that no one should buy any books or movies about this. those poor innocent babies...used as pawns like this...i think the state should evaluate the financial means *which are zip* of this gal, and put the babies up for adoption so that the taxpayers don't have to foot this bill.you would think that the mom would have done this awhile ago, but that just proves, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, yes i know it says the mom is rattled, just wait till 8 mouths are wailing and hungry and have dirty diapers, and need to be cuddled and hugged and held and loved, STOP THE WORLD LORD, I WANT TO GET OFF.!!

What about the ethics of having so many kids in a world way way over-populated? So many of us who have had no more than two for that very reason and she has 14! If she likes children that much then adopt!!!!

What I want to know is how did she pay for this procedure in the first place. It is very expensive and some very hard working couples have a hard time paying for it.

This will keep happening as long as the welfare system is alloying it, The system should implement some rules.......if you are a single mother, without a job and receiving public support, you are not aloud to have any more kids and should have to wear one of those band that stop you from getting pregnant for any period of time as long as you are living under public assistant. any more kids out of wedlock and no job it should be considered a violation of the rules and your benefits stop.

This is the only way to stop this unconsidered people from abusing the system.

My daughter and her husband ha a very hard time conceiving.They spent 10's of thousands of dollars...It paid off with a beautiful child..

I also wondered if the government paid for this woman's procedure....

She pops out kids like they are coming form a pez dispenser...It's sad when people who would be good parents can't have children...

She knew going into this that she couldn't afford their care....the state should refuse to provide welfare & health benefits and the home and mother should be evaluated.....if she or the home is found to be unfit to properly provide for the children on her own then they should assume custody and place them in foster care.

The doctor who performed this procedure should be censored by the medical board and he/she should be held financially responsible for all cost associated with the birth and care of the was reckless.

I guess she saw all the fuss and stories like lifetime's Jon and Kate Plus Eight where these people with all these children are making big money and thought she could capitalize on it. Why do people watch this foolishness? I have no sympathy for any of these people and would not contribute to any person who has 1 child and uses fertility treatment for more. I am one of 14 and my parents raised two additional children. They never took any help from outsiders.

She is working on her master's degree...It wont happen. Working on a high end degree requires time and commitment, something she wont have with all those kids, unless she neglects them. NO one's going to change their opinion of her for the good. She abused her ethical rights to have children and she expects symphathy from the world? She's gone and lost her mind. Again where is social services? Oh that's right, California is now broke and one of the things they cut IS social services. This evil woman planned it somehow, she knew all along!

I think she needs to see a psychiatrist and a psychologist. You can't force them, but I think people should be evaluated by a psychological doctor and medical doctor before they undergo embryo implants or artificial insemination. This woman was doing it solely for the publicity and that is not being a good parent.

You need a license to fish, hunt, drive, and even own a dog, but ANY IDIOT out there can have as many children as they'd like. I know the powers that be want more consumers in the world, but some sort of regulation would be nice.

I'm not saying lets adopt China's childbirth policies, but something's gotta give.

there's definitely selfish motives here.. cashing in at all levels plus national media attention..what a dirty shame. the public is not stupid, for the publicist to deny the true issues is phoney baloney. this lady had a chance to remove several embryos, she denied it. now she wants book deals, media attention, freebies. the very nerve of her. a motive for freebies at all levels..welfare to media..what a monster!! if she's unemployed and there are dire circumstances. where is the social services dept/ their not doing there job here....

There is nothing against the law about having 20 kids, or even 20 kids at once. Look at the ultra religious 18 and counting family, clan. They are so celebrated they have a TV show!

Jack and Kate plus 8! I don't see him celebrating, but they've found a nice little income for themselves.

I want to know how many millions of fertilized embryos there are in the country, and exactly how many pro-lifers are willing to donate up their uteri to do what this woman did?

A degree in psychology? Maybe her first patient should be herself. . . .

What a selfish-pig to have 14 kids without caring enough to give them a dad (to have been married before getting pregnant in the very first instance). A real dad that will love them, spend time with them, and support his family. Despite not being politically correct, studies have proven that kids need a fathers support or they are much more likely to be screwed up. She's in it for the attention, and this is a incredibly immature stunt. Apparently she does not think things through, or think of others (like the babies) before herself - that alone will make her a bad mother.

This really isn't a 'big family' issue - for those of you that think the world is overpopulated, do the math for yourself and stop swallowing what the ZGP wants you to think. The world is definately not overpopulated! Your neighborhood may be, but the earth is not. I think that big families are absolutely wonderful, but lets be honest, most are just healthy families (whether birth or adoptive), who don't want people to notice them, they just want to raise their kids to be great citizens - they do what's best for their kids when making decisions, and few are on public assistance. Our best family friends are big families (multiple), no welfare, you don't even pay taxes for their kids to go to public schools - they believe that their kids are completely their responsibility.

I don't really think that this issue should be about big families - it should stay with the thread of Farming batches of kids, and most especially the ethical debate of whether one should have children without a spouse. Like it or not, kids do better with 2 parents. I know that there are things that happen that justify a divorce, but lets be real, most just divorce because they fell out of love or felt like it. Selfish if you have kids. And here we have a woman that has 14 children without ever being married??? Her doctor should have his license revoked for breach of ethics. It must have been in her file that she was unmarried and already had 6 illegitimate kids! Who in their right mind would say, "Gee, lucky kids, lets give you some more!"

Couples pay thousands of dollars to have these procedures done. How did a single, unemployed woman afford this??? Is there a rogue doctor out there who thought this would get him attention????

Oh yeah , without a father, kids are screwed up! Hnmmmm..Michael Phelps, 8 golds last Olys, 7 the time before. Oh wait a minute, he smoked pot so he's screwed up because he wasn't raised with his father present!

OBAMA! wow, now there's a fatherless piece of human crap all because he had no father present in his life.

This isn't about whether its politically correct or incorrect, when there is love as the main substenance in any child's rearing, children are well-off. I KNOW many single mom large families (and single father llarge families) that all the kids grew up with great success. How many men died in wartimes leaving the woman to raise the broods of kids and did just fine. Catholics and Mormons must be amongst the largest breeders historically, all for religious reasons. When I was a kid, most Mormons had no less than 8 kids, some as many as 10-13. Same with Catholics. Large breeding practices have diminished and I'd say it probably has more to do with woman getting a clue they have more to offer and personally gain than being just a homebound breeder.

Get off the Father Knows Best and June and Ward Clever mentality.. There is a much more diverse world out there. Open your eyes and your mind.

What a selfish-pig to have 14 kids without caring enough to give them a dad (to have been married before getting pregnant in the very first instance)

whats a pig ever done to be compared to this woman?

Robin-6, You are right, there are a lot of really great kids that came from single parent families(I never said they didn't), but that certainly doesn't mean that this was the best for the child! I'm only saying that people need to start thinking more of their kids and the impact that their choices have on their children! (I don't get where the Mormon and Catholic thing comes to play, and kids whose fathers have passed know that their dad would have/was there for them - that makes a big impact.)

This lady obviously wasn't thinking of these babies whether there was one or eight, she was only thinking of herself. I do think that it is sad that single-parenthood is so socially acceptable - this woman probably would have thought through her choice to have so many (even to get pregant a second or third time) had it not been socially OK to have children out of wed-lock. If society had the guts to say "This isn't fair to the kids" and she knew there wouldn't the big-money buy-outs/hand-outs to someone so irresponsible, she probably would have not done this again. Society with it's acceptance of single motherhood, and it's payouts encouraging families to advertise their brood on TV every week have contributed to this catastrophe. I only have the guts to say what others won't. Why else is there so much controversy over her case and not John&Kate+8, or whoever else is on and gets all those great ratings. The woman is wacked, and now the babies will pay for it.

And it really doesn't have anything to do with being a 'home-bound' breeder - I guess that I would be considered a home-bound breeder. I stay at home and raise my own children. I choose to realize that investing in the children that I have is more important than pushing papers (or a keyboard) all day (been there, done that). Don't get me wrong, I realize that there are many women who would like to stay home with their kids but simply cannot. I just feel bad for the kids that know that their moms would rather be at work than with them. This woman plans on ditching her 14 kids so that she can pursue her degree. If she wasn't going to raise them herself, why did she have them? Children are not toys! Society looks at them as glorified pets. The deserve more.

The problem right now about this story is that there is WAY too much missing information. What do we know about this woman? Very little. We understand she is unemployed and doesn't have a partner, but she has a college education and wants to work toward a Master's. All of those things are in conflict with each other.

And how did she get all those babies? We just don't know. In-vitro? Seems unlikely considering the costs, unless she managed to get someone else to pay for it six times, which also seems unlikely. Ovary stimulation? Possible, but still expensive to do six different times for someone who isn't activly employed. And it likely took more than that to get an egg to "stick".

As for getting support from baby supply companies, has she asked for any help? Has she requested assistance? Doesn't seem like anyone is offering her anything.

As for no husband or partner, well so what? Sure, its great if a kid can have two parents, but what's really important is that they have loving and supportive adults around to help raise them. There are lots of kids out there with one parent and they do just fine! Single parents CAN raise children successfully. Let's come into the 21st century on that issue, at least.

Jane, she has a PUBLICIST shopping around for book and TV deals. I'm thinking it's a pretty safe bet that she wanted/expected to get all sorts of free merchandaise donated to her. And the reason no one (to our knowledge) is offering her anything is that they've seen the public reaction to this irresponsible woman's actions.

I have to agree with all the people questioning the IVF. How did a single, unemployed mom of six pay for an elective procedure?

Did the diaper and baby food companies pony up the cash for that as well? Who was the IVF doctor? Does anyone know? I doubt it was handled pro bono.

This is a baby mill scam and the public is going to pay for it one way or another. Think of all the medical care for each child, WIC coupons for gallons of milk and boxes upon boxes of cereal, free or reduced child care, then free or reduced lunch at school for 14 kids for decades and then financial aid for college.

I thought Wall Street was a band of thieves, but this woman has the potential to single-handedly ruin some state's budget for years to come as well as add significantly to the national debt.

The entity that implanted eight embryos into this womans womb should be held responsible for the welfare of these babies..... Child Protective Services should be taking charge untill this woman assures society that she can care for her offspring.... The babies do not deserve to grow up in a freak show...they should be adopted by families that can provide a normal, loving environment....This is an extreme case of child abuse...but of course no one has any ethics....as long as you can extort money from idiots.... it's a go.....it's ok........ it's sick.....

Beentheredonethat; You said it in a nutshell. you do not think it should be socailly acceptable for single parentage. There it is. A value judgment of right and wrong, based on a predisposition to a belief that somehow single parenting is less valuable and should be less acceptable and it causes children harm.

I call bull@!$%#...

How many kids suffer because of bad marriages where the parents stay together for the kids? The father beats or emotionally batters the wife or visa vie? Believe me, I know many a family that would have benefitted greatly by the absenteeism of the father. (or mother in many cases.) Life does not exist in a vacuum.

From what you have said here, it sounds like your kind of thinking is about control of others when you're best bet in life is to control what you can in your own life, not others. In this case, this woman didn't ask for your permission and it sounds like she didn't need it. Her life is not your matter.

If there are laws to be changed that you don't like, then work on them. But understand, freedom is about individual choices and when there are those that want to take away from that just because "they think"..then you're most likely not going to like the outcome.

I still see zero evidence of state funding for her choices.

As I said in another post; we do NOT know if this could have been 1 set of quads/sextuplets + the remainder, or 4 twins or whatever the breakdown. If the laws requires no more than 4 implants, it may be possible that was ALL that was implanted, yet the eggs multiplied after planting. Whatever the case is, there are 8 new babies.

Nothing about this or the direction of her life are going to be easy as it would be for any large family, single or otherwise. How she obtains the means is a private matter and frankly, NONE of your business.

The Catholic/Mormon thing comes in from the same idealogy as you. A value judgment of right and wrong. It's okay to have a dozen children as long as the Church okays it (regardless of wallet size). It's okay to have a dozen kids when the parent/s own a farm and have child labor in mind to make their life of prosperity how they deem fit.

In this article the granmother said that her daughter wanted one more little girl. Well, that one became eight. I don't think the mother should be blamed, blame the doctors. If you are going to blame her then you should blame her for not having an abortion. That now is a different kettle of fish.

I have no desire to control others, I just think that society should give children a little more worth.

And I can speak from experience. I HAVE BEEN a single mother. And it was never what was best for my son! I had a professional job, I was responsible in my care for him, and I did all that I could so that he had the best life that was possible for him at that time.

I have been on both sides. Having a child out of wedlock grew me up enough that I realized that no matter what, I would never do that to another child. Even if it meant that I would never have more children. I have always wanted to have kids just like this lady, but I realized that they are not play-things and I couldn't create another person just because I had the desire to.

Society has to have some value judgement. Just as you said, life cannot exist in a vacuum; life without some ethical boundaries is life in a vacuum.

Been there; I think there are alot more of women who can also say they've been on both sides of this coin. just because you have one experience doesn't mean there is a result that is better or worse for anybody else. It was your experience only. Anything else is control of others. Let it be, let it be.

From what you've said here, you ought to not beat yourself up for having a child out of wedlock but rather, congratulate yourself on making a healthy choice for your child.. Many are chastized into having abortions because their pregnancy is out of wedlock. (that OLD very old hypocrisy I keep griping about!) Big damn deal on having achild out of wedlock. yes its hard.. I was there too and although I eventually married, my children would have survived just fine without the father figure. He didn't sculpt their ethics or morals, i did (although he certainly was a dream come true for them and for me.) I have 2 very successful happy grown really good people now-adult children with families of their own --all going thru their own lessons and choices which are different experiences of what I experienced, so ...again, SO what?! No absolutes of right or wrong!

I think if anything, you ought to do a better job patting yourself on the back and do women a favor and pat them on the back as you pass along the way.

In this case, don't you think you/we are missing alot of vital information to be even passing judgment on this woman?

This is a baby mill scam and the public is going to pay for it one way or another. Think of all the medical care for each child, WIC coupons for gallons of milk and boxes upon boxes of cereal, free or reduced child care, then free or reduced lunch at school for 14 kids for decades and then financial aid for college.

I thought Wall Street was a band of thieves, but this woman has the potential to single-handedly ruin some state's budget for years to come as well as add significantly to the national debt.

Oh give me a break! First of all, how do you KNOW this woman is going to apply for WIC benefits, or free school lunches, or if any or all of these kids will go to college and apply for financial aid??? How do you know? Huh?

While you're at it, why not blame the mortgage crisis on her, as well?

Well, I don't think the taxpayers should have to pay for this at all. She defrauded the school loan system and should have to face criminal charges for misuse of those funds and it does not sound like the first time either when she told this other woman she got "payed to have then" . Hate to tell this publisher but you are wasting your money because there is no way I'd pay to read any story about some woman who has mental problems if she's crazy about having babies and I sure won't watch any program she is on. I suggest we all boycott both. Send emails to the baby products companies and tell them if they want to support such foolishness we wont buy products they make either.

They are her income and that's all they are to her. The doctor and the one's involved in paying for her to be inseminated should be sued by the state for what they have done and for all the bills incurred. Make them be responsible for a change and then see just how quickly this bs stops. These poor kids have a mom that is cashing in on them. So wrong in every way! All book and media sales should go into a bank account for the kids. After all, they are the reason for her even getting the attention and a book deal, so if it weren't for them, she would still be broke!

They are her income and that's all they are to her.

Did she tell you this or are you just psychic? And if you are psychic, I think there are more pressing issues out there for you to use your powers on.

Vicki, she has a publicist because she has been inundated with requests for interviews from the media. You are making an assumption that she was expecting free swag from baby companies, we don't know that's true.

I am also troubled by this woman and her behavior, but until we know the whole story we are only guessing at what her motivations were.

The beauty of all this fake outrage is that you've all expressed enough interest in this woman that any publisher, cable network or daytime talk show host with half a brain would pay for this story.

She will say, "Due to all the rumors and false accusations out there, it is incumbent upon me to clear the air. To protect the dignity of myself and my family, I need the chance to tell my story. Please, everyone leave my family alone at least until I tell the truth to dispell all the rumors." And you too can buy a piece of history for just $29.95 at your local Joseph Beth book sellers. Call in within the next 24 hours, and we'll throw in a "I ain't the babies-daddy!" T-shirt ABSOLUTELY FREE!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. ONLY IN AMERICA!!!

Robin - just as you said, you did shape their ethics and morals. Your children have ethics/morals; it is impossible not to have any (that life in a vacuum thing). I don't know how old your children were when you married, but I don't understand how your husband (as a father figure) could not have contributed to their development? Could you say that growing up without a father would have been the BEST for your 2 children, and if it was, why would you get married? As a responsible parent, we should give up our own desires for our childrens well-being. That doesn't mean that we can't ever do anything that we would like, it is just a time in our lives when we give to others because that is what is best for them. This decision making should start (ideally) before conception. For some people, like this mother, they don't put the self-control, or maybe the selflessness, to put the needs of others (like these babies) before their own wants. Can we say that this is an ideal situation for these babies? Now that they are here, they need a loving home - if she is in it for the money, they won't get that. If she is in it for the $, then the kids will grow up knowing that and it will reflect in the persons that they become.

I don't beat myself up for my single-motherhood; I made the best of the situation as I possibly could. But I do have the responsibility to say that it was not the best for my son, and I would not choose to do that again to him.

Abortion is wrong, but it wouldn't happen if our society held a proper value on children. I just believe (yes, this is my belief, but it has as much value as others) that if society would give children the worth that they deserve, and make more decisions based on what is best for the children (even before they are conceived) instead of doing whatever the parent feels like without considering the fallout for all of society.

Yes, what happened to me was my experience only, and other women have other experiences - but ususally, how you feel about a situation is based on your ethical beliefs. Without a common ground, we will never agree as there is no longer any basis for moral beliefs in this society.

Maybe we should get Congress to BAIL HER OUT!

Robin 6 - What is your problem with Been There, Done That? State your opinion & move on, you don't have to nit pick her opinion to death. If you can't read opinions without getting so bent out of shape, you are on the wrong page! Nobody wants to read a "know it all" opinion. We are all here to read other people's opinions, and maybe comment ourselves. I personally am not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking or have anyone pick out what I have to say just to critcize it.

After I state my opinion once about something, I usually move on to another article mainly because of people like you. I refuse to argue my opinions with nit pickers like you. Get over it & move on.

Skky:

Don't you hope Michael Jackson is the father?....Oooh, or the father of Jon Benet Ramsey is impregnating women in an evil plot to recreate his daughter?

Respectfully and respectively I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

"Robin - just as you said, you did shape their ethics and morals. Your children have ethics/morals; it is impossible not to have any (that life in a vacuum thing). I don't know how old your children were when you married, but I don't understand how your husband (as a father figure) could not have contributed to their development? **I never implied he never contributed. Daughter, 11, son 9 when I married. Both old enough that much of who they was already founded, which were very strong individuals then. Both children don't look back on their chiildhoods as a traumatic event because there was no father in their formative years but that life was a wonderful loving fun event. By their successes, that's all the proof I need I know what I am talking about. Could you say that growing up without a father would have been the BEST for your 2 children, and if it was, why would you get married? **From your questions, it is sounding like "BEST" is in a vaccuum in your mind. What is your best may not be someone else's idea of best. It is an ideology and not one based in facts or truth. Loving good teaching of morals and values come from loving homes which may or may not be single or dualistic. As a responsible parent, we should give up our own desires for our childrens well-being. **Some times we have no choice. Choosing to raise children on one's own is not NOT being a responsible parent. I highly disagree with anyone who asserts otherwise. That doesn't mean that we can't ever do anything that we would like, it is just a time in our lives when we give to others because that is what is best for them. What did you want me to do, go out and find the first MAN who was ready for fatherhood just because society would prefer it that way? End up with some schmuck who I didn't really know just cause it was the right thing to do for my kids? (no need to answer but your questions begs for more questions!)
This decision making should start (ideally) before conception. **That is your opinion. Life, as we know it, is made up along the way for most people.
For some people, like this mother, they don't put the self-control, or maybe the selflessness, to put the needs of others (like these babies) before their own wants. **You don't know her wants or needs or the babies. You only are deciding to jump on a bandwagon of half cocked bits and pieces of information and speculation about someone else's life. Can we say that this is an ideal situation for these babies? Now that they are here, they need a loving home - if she is in it for the money, they won't get that. If she is in it for the $, then the kids will grow up knowing that and it will reflect in the persons that they become. ** so you have a crystal ball and think you know the absolute outcome of these children's future? Where do you get one of these crystal balls?

************************

SK-ky...WHY dont' you move on and mind your own business?. I'm not nitpicking, we're having a discussion. Don't you see she also asked me a zillion questions. I think if she didn't want to debate she would have moved on.
If you don't want to listen, then you move on.
See, another fine example of a control freak. Just can't help yourself or what?

See I think you are on the wrong side of the coin here.......been there is the one who will not let it go and is hollier than thou about the whole thing.

Here is the publicist's e-mail address: Forum: This is a public e-mail address that I simply looked up. Anyone can find her. JoannK @ kileenfurtney group . com

"Abortion is wrong, but it wouldn't happen if our society held a proper value on children. "

I don't agree.  Abortion wouldn't happen if our society held a proper value on WOMEN.

Nadya was wrong, the "medical" folks who assisted/encouraged her were wrong...this entire world is wrong...and getting wronger by the day.

Robin, I didn't necessarily want public answers to the ?s that I asked, I only asked them for you to think about. If the answers strengthen you stance, then great... just as the answers for our family and the experiences that we have had with other families have strengthened ours. ~One of the problems with these little forum-thingys (whatever they are called), is that you cannot see a persons countenance or hear their tone of voice, so it is very easy to read something into what is written, especially if that person isn't really talented at conveying feeling (as I am not). I am not backtracking on ANYTHING that I have said, but I would hope that you would give me a small amount of grace - I am not a hate-monger, but I do have distinct feelings on this matter having worked with families and abused children for years as foster parents. Every foster child that we had placed with us (no, this is not every child in the system), was from a single parent household, and most had their children for attention - then when the children reaced 2 and 3, mom couldn't handle it and the abuse/neglect started. It is sad to encourage women having children for the attention of it. Works great when they are little babies, but when they get a little older...

I am stressing that when it comes to children, we need to have the attitude that they are so important that (ideally), we need to start making decisions based on their best interests, and these choices need to start before they are born. Basically, it is a different mindset. Until that mindset on the value of children is altered, there will be parents that pull stuff like this in their best interest and not the childs (yes, I know, that is my OPINION, just as all that you have said is your opinion). This woman has 14 children and still lives with her parents...I am all for family involvement, but grandma should not be expected to raise the 6 this lady had before, and now the poor lady will have 14 to care for instead of preparing for retirement... The whole thing just saddens me... :(

Jane - I don't understand how abortion would not happen if the world had the proper value of women? Abortion is a choice that we make because of a previous choice that we have made (rape pregnancies accounts for less than 1/4 of 1% of abortions). If we women made responsible choices to begin with, abortion would be unnecessary. If I am missing something, please let me know (as I'm sure you will :) ).

Been there, I'm not dogging you, I'm trying to get you to think outside the box that got painted on this story. first, there will be plenty of time for the hens to guard the hen house but my take here has more to do with the hypocrisy of people making judgment on others when they really don't even know the story. OR in this case with what you did,, surmise a perceived future from a complelety hypervisualized unknown past. Sorry, i call 'em as I see 'em.

As far as the questions. If that's what you don't neccessarily want, it would behoove you to speak up and say that. (generalization of you). You talked about yourself, I talked about myself which led me to answer your questions. I perceived since you addressed me specifically and we had these already, that you were asking me to answer the questions. I would rather have not wasted my time if the answers were a waste of my time and yours. Your experiences are a minute slice of a huge ocean of possibilities and outcomes. Don't rest on just your experiences alone. I can come up with plenty of proof opposing your assertions.

Okay, so I'm off the Been there" solely and on to the general 'you'...

Most of this has to do withcore beliefs. In the case of this story, I have read more people who follow a core belief and don't even underrstand what it is or why. Just that it's there bygod and they're stickin' with it. I find most core beliefs (especially those empowered by religion or faith) to be basically flawed when it comes to the asolute right's of others to live and do and be how they best find what those paths are.

In this case, leave the woman alone. Stop with passing negative judgment when you don't have only a tiny fraction of the real story. She isn't taking a thing away from you but your energy of a rant. They are her children, whether you like it how they came about or not and she's responsible for them. How she best does that is up to her. HER right, not yours. Whether its' "money for nothin and the chicks for free". You aren't paying for them. Never were and most likely never will be. Her parenting skills, potential or real are not yours to decide if they cut the mustard. Plenty of children in any perceived perfect way of being are plenty screwed up, hence futher proof that core beliefs can easily be flawed.

Whatever happened here with this woman and her babies. be rest assured you don't know a thing about how she feels or her capabillites.

If you really want to give advice and advocate for the well-being of these children, donate and get your friends to donate. You might even come away with feeling better about yourselves.

Robin, the issue that I have with your take on the 'it's none of my business' stance is that this does effect others besides this woman. It effects the 14 children that she has brought into this world but cannot soley care for, it effects the hospital and who-ever has to foot the bill for these children, it effects the taxpayers who will have to foot the bill to educate them... And they are not JUST her responsibility. She will NOT be able to care for 8 newborns by herself, therefore, they will be the responsibility of many, just as they are now in the hospital. I doubt that you know a thing about how she feels and her capabilities either.

I'm really OK about being at odds with you on this issue. I do find it ironic that generally, when you have 2 opposing sides, the more liberal of the 2 will say that the other needs to be more accepting, but yet they do not hold themselves to this same idea, or the more liberal of the 2 would realize that they also need to be more accepting of those who believe differently. ie. it's ok for me to rag on you for not accepting what I believe, but I don't have to accept what you believe. You are free to believe what you would like to, but so am I...

~sk-ky-3441, thanks for the info on how you add to these columns - I have only done this one other time - great stuff to know, I think that I will follow suite about the moving on thing :) I peeked at your posts, and it's great to see some fun and positive (and cheerful) postings!

The question here is ethics. Was it ethical for the doctor to implant her with 8 babies knowing she already had 6 children at home? Is there such a thing as professional ethics in our society?

As for this woman now having 14 children...I wonder at the quality of her parenting skills as a single mom. I still feel Social Services needs to investigate her...the safety, health, and well-being of all 14 children is paramount.

As a young person growing up in the '70's, I was raised with the Zero Population Growth movement. What ever happened to the concept of ZPG? It certainly made sense then and even more so in the 21st century. Care to compare the carbon footprints of 2 children to 14 children?

"Working on her master's degree."  Are you KIDDING me?  This awful, selfish woman has brought 14 children into the world, one of them with autism, and she wants to continue going to school to earn another degree??   On our dime, of course, while we also pay for her brood.  Oh, it just makes me sick, it really does.  And god help her autistic child, who needs and deserves full-time attention to ensure that he's able to overcome his difficulties.

I hope nobody will be stupid enough to buy any books or watch any movies about this farce of an event. She should have to WORK to support those children, pay a babysitter, lets see how well she does. This was her free ride, I hope it crashes on her.

My opinion of her will NOT change....no matter how a publisist spins it! And they will spin it! This woman did this of her own free will. Fine. Now let her raise them. Not me, not you, not any other taxpayer, and not the baby industry that she's hoping will offer her free goodies. No free cars (I didn't get one when my kids were born..did you?) No free houses (Again, I didn't get one) and no free diapers, or formula. Let her do the raising. After all these so called freebies, end up costing other consumers (Businesses will pass the cost on to the paying consumer). So, she gets nothing and can quietly go away and raise her village!

This strikes me as perfect place to have a mental evaluation of this woman and remove her children to a safe environment and close her reproductive shop down.

She is free market capitalism's dream come true. She found a niche in the economy - people like reading and hearing about multiple births - and she exploited that niche. I commend her as a capitalist. All you socialists out there who want to stop her from making a living doing what fits her talents should be ashamed of yourselves!

Ashamed!

I'll assume this is a subtle use of irony.

How selfish of one woman to breed children because of a compulsive addiction. Now we, as taxpayers, are responsible for their care, feeding, education and everything that goes along with this. It is estimated that it will take over $2.5 million dollars to raise these kids. (That does not include the hospital costs and doctor's fees that exceed $500,000.)

Fisherman is correct. The idiot doctors who made this mess possible should be helping to pay these bills. Even if this lady has insurance, which has not been made clear, the insurance company would spread the costs out among all their policyholders so that everybody pays a little bit of the tab.

Then there' s the local taxpayers in the lady's town who'll be dropping somewhere around $10,000+ per child, per year, to educate these kids from kindergarten thru high school...or about $2 million.

Fourteen kids under the age of 7...I'll bet they all turn out wonderfully. When will the thank you cards go out to everyone who will be forced to pay the tab for raising them.

LS-415070

My opinion of her will NOT change....no matter how a publisist spins it! And they will spin it! This woman did this of her own free will. Fine. Now let her raise them. Not me, not you, not any other taxpayer, and not the baby industry that she's hoping will offer her free goodies. No free cars (I didn't get one when my kids were born..did you?) No free houses (Again, I didn't get one) and no free diapers, or formula. Let her do the raising. After all these so called freebies, end up costing other consumers (Businesses will pass the cost on to the paying consumer). So, she gets nothing and can quietly go away and raise her village!

A-freakin'-MEN!!!!!!!  No free ride!!  I pay enough for the lazy-ass people on welfare that want to sit home, do nothing & collect to buy themselves jewelry & expensive cars (probably doing illegal things on the side for that extra money).  WHAT DO I GET DAMN IT?   

How did she pay for it in the first place??? The procedure is expensive and usually not covered by insurance.

My word exactly! Shame on her.

Shwanomin- Live fast, troll hard. Awesome.

Schwannomin

Free market capitalists don't have 14 kids, no job, and live with their mommies. And, we sure as hell wouldn't expect welfare to take care of our brood. Lame attempt at sarcasm but, kudos for trying!

What makes you think she doesn't have a job. This woman has been offered a book deal and TV interviews for cash. That IS her job!

I'm sorry I didn't think of it first.

Uh....the article states she is unemployed and she went into this without any source of income. Those book and TV deals may or may not materialize....and I if they do...I don't see too many people buying that book. I've yet to come across anyone who thinks she is anything less than a scheming gold digger.

A lot of rumors around, but she actually did work in a MENTAL INSTITUTION a few years back. I couldn't even make that up if I wanted to.

I propose that a DNA test be done on her parents too. I bet they are just free loaders living with Ms. Suleman. How about that for a rumor.

yeah and I heard she actually is a Taliban Muslim extremist and is secretly hording a commue full of terrorists who go around in disquise when in public as the Jonas Brothers.

yeah, that's the ticket!

Anyone responsible for the Jonas Bros. needs to be executed...or at least sent to Guantanamo.

That's why I wanted to start THIS rumor. It makes as much sense as the rest of the rumor-mongerers on the vine.

PS. I also heard that the Devil made her do it and we are in for big trouble because one of these male children is really....shsshhhhhhhh...*whispers*...the anti-christ...

Not the anti-christ baby. Osama Bin Laden is the father. Hell, I'll even take Michael Jackson as the father. That would basically be the best story in the history of television. Robin, check out 1.35. Tell me that won't happen.

A lot of rumors around, but she actually did work in a MENTAL INSTITUTION a few years back. I couldn't even make that up if I wanted to.

I guess that old saying is true..."You are the company you keep."

Where is this woman getting her money from???? Not only to pay for Invitro but now to hire publicists! She's reported to be unemployed. Regardless of the news reporting correct information or not.......my opinion remains the same. I feel sorry for these kids and what future they may have because of someones (hers and/or the doctors) stupidity.

Salem,

I hope nobody will be stupid enough to buy any books or watch any movies about this farce of an event.

The majority of our society is stupid. Their prurient fascination with this woman and her children will compel them to follow anything written or filmed about her. Look at how many Enquirers are sold every day.

No she is not off her rocker she is money hungry and she is going to use these kids to make her fortune and not have to work for it. If she makes enough she can hire all the help she needs put them all in a big house and live like a queen at their expense.

Does anyone remember the Dionone quintuplets. This it that plus three. She should be charged with child cruelty and the kids taken and given a good home.

Someone has to answer this question for me - how did an unwed, unemployed woman pay for any of this anyway? If you tell me that medicare or some other welfare program covers the cost of having this done then all of us have been hoodwinked. The estimated cost to the taxpayer of this "miracle" is over $3.2 million and climbing. I'm betting the doctor who did this is headed somewhere that doesn't have extradition.....

I agree with everyone. In this difficult times she found a easy way to make people pay for her ........ expenses. She will use this kids to make easy money. Can't the government see that?Doesn't the situation is already difficult for everyone? Hopefully the right thing will be done and she will have to support all those poor kids, that in reality don't deserve to have a person like that as a mother. Shamefull.

I'm willing to bet a VERY unethical doctor is involved in all this. It's a huge scam, and that doctor and the donor firm may be getting a cut. I really don't think it begins and ends with this woman; baby-addicted as she may be. Someone helped her for exactly these ends.

It's a shame because there are many, many couples who are unable to have children on their own. And, when they committ themselves, and live through the heartaches and disappointments and the trials and errors while trying to have at least one baby, and this "lady" does what she did? It really blows. I know this is a free country and all, but this is going too far. Can you imagine how it must feel if you are a couple who have tried for years, and haven't yet succeeded, and this is all over the news? Invitro and other medical procedures should not be allowed for those like this woman. I am not saying someone can only have 2 or 5 or whatever, but she now has 14. That is shameful. To any book publishers: If you publish a book on this, I will not buy it. To any broadcast companies: If you make a movie or reality show out of this, I will not watch it. To any manufacturers of baby products: If you donate anything, I will not buy your products.

Why don't you lend her a hand and offer to take a couple of babies off her hands? That may be the answer to your prayers.

Nah, I already have two of my own and they are grown. I am waiting on the grandkids now, although they can wait until I'm older. I haven't quite got the "grandma frame of mind in place" just yet.

Kaiser should not be expected to pay for this!

Oh, they won't. They'll pass on the cost to other ensured individuals in their network! We ALL end up paying for this woman and her village of babies!

squadawg: I've been following this story from the beginning too. Ms. Suleman already has an autistic child and probably knows every in and out of SSI from that. In addition, she is receiving welfare and payed for her invitro fertilization with funds for her student loan. More knowledgeable people than me have said that underweight preemies will automatically qualify for SSI payments, at least until the age of one. She clearly knows the system and how to use it.

I may be alone on this, but I hope some publisher, magazine, tv show, or science fiction series does pay a fortune for her story. I hope she makes enough money from them that she no longer qualifies for any form of public assistance. Otherwise, the taxpayer is going to foot the bill and I'd prefer her little "meal tickets" are payed for by the private sector.

The doctor who implanted 8 eggs should pay all the expenses.

Sarah Palin thinks it's wonderful that this woman wanted to have such a large number of children. She would do it if she could.

Fisherman-what a really putrid post. I wondered how long it would take for some idiot to bring politics into this discussion. Besides, we all know it is Bush's fault.

Sarah Palin would think that because she herself has no scrupples. Perhaps all the hard right wingers will get together and pay for all of her expenses and the babies for life! Yehhhh, right!! They always promote more children, but rarely do they get into the how're we gonna' pay for 'em issue!! Hypocrites, that's what they all are!!!

If that's the case, then how come professionally entitled are the ones listening?

Absolutely. Anyone who has children already, especially SIX, should not even be considered for fertility treatments.

Looking forward to my tax dollars and insurance premiums going to pay for this...

I guess our ethics differ. I say an ethical fertility specialist would have never created that many embryos in the first place years ago when they were created and frozen. But you can't change the past, and now that they have been created, to destroy them would be abortion. Ethically, I'm with Ms. Suleman on that issue. If she didn't get them implanted, they would have been aborted, which is murder. I personally have undergone fertility therapy, and I know first hand that you don't expect any treatment to work to its full potential. If 8 embryos were inserted, it's simply a miracle that they all latched on and 'took'. It's already been said publicly that she didn't intend for an octuplet result, but also that she was against abortion and would accept and care for whatever blessing(s) came along.

The Doctor MAY have implanted as few as 2 or as many as 4 embryos, and with the fertility drugs she was most likely on, some or all of the embryos may have just split. That isn't impossible, improbable, but not impossible. However, due to the overpopulation of our planet, somewhere between 10 and 30 million children die every year of the worst possible death; starvation and starvation related diseases. Yet this mother of 6 children, none of whom are over the age of 7, "...wanted one more little girl..." How selfish is that (even if you're wealthy enough to support them)? I mean, COME ON. Really?

It's a prime example of how people today are completely oblivious, and make every decision based on what they WANT, and not based on what would be best for them and every other person around them. Even if she had only given birth to ONE more baby, that would not be what is best for her parents, her other children, herself, or the rest of humanity.

Well, she obviously doesn't care what other people want, (I'm sure all those starving children WANT to live and be well feed), or what her 14 children NEED; but, here are some words of wisdom for her: Nobody cares what YOU want.

That is a lesson people sholuld be taught; unless you care what they want, nobody cares what YOU want, and sometimes not even then.

Let's say I agree with you 100%.

If I had a product you wanted, and you had the money to afford my services how likely am I to turn you down?

Secondly, with the nature of this product, I would feel obligated to warn you of all the risks involved.

Thirdly, if you were hell bent on having it done anyway, it then becomes an ethical decision for me.

Why are we focusing the blame solely on her shoulders?

You know thats a valid point. No one has thought to tap that fruitful vain.... I for one do believe that a child has a right to life, I also belive that a woman has a right to make decisions for her own body. HUM.... I think that the two have hit a bit of a snag here.

It simply bothers me that these children will suffer lack for years to come, because the mother said to herself, "IF I COULD ONLY HAVE ONE MORE GIRL". She has the adorable little girl now ... and end some.

Just because a person is for right to life doesn't mean they are for artificial insemination. If it wasn't for the welfare aspect of this case none of you would care a little bit.

Are you are refering to Pro-life? It's not the babies fault here. Abortion is not the answer to the problem. The problem is the woman and the doctors. I'm sure there a many couples out there that would love to adopt because they are not able to have children of their own.

tbsopinion - That's the problem with the 'right to life' people. They are vehemently against abortion, but won't take care of children throughout their 17 years of childhood. That is theft of tax dollars, our money, and they should all be charged with these crimes and forced to pay for their beliefs.

I guess those wacky "right to life" people would call it "personal responsibility". Crazy concept. This woman absolutely has none.

Give the kids to Casey Anthony. That should resolve the issue.

Stone Cold

That was bad......funny, but bad :)

"My question is where is all the "right to life" organizations? Why haven't they come out in support of her decision and step up to help?"

Probably because this isn't a "right to life" issue. The woman wanted to have "one more baby," and somehow got someone to give her fertility drugs. How I don't know, but that is not a "right to life" issue. Further, she hasn't said anything about wanting to give them up for adoption; on the contrary she wants to keep them all. I think "right to lifers" are equally appalled at this situation, where someone who already has mouths to feed did something unconcionable to conceive more children - no job, no husband, no way to care for them.

But you should be happy, she gave you the opportunity to score some political brownie-points by bringing up a totally unrelated issue.

Have to agree, Stone Cold & believer 369603...

Usually the truth is absurd - for example, an unwed, unemployed, de-literate with 6 kids having 8 more

I believe that is the plan.

Think people, this process is not simple not cheap and she got this done. Despite the wear and tear it put on her body and her childrens' health. Whatever money she gets out of this, it is not going to take away from her responsibility to raise 14 law abiding, socially acceptable children. That is her challenge, unless she has a plan for that as well. Beyond who is going to take care of these babies, where is the outrage about the ethics of this doctor? The one she is protecting, if her motives are so pure, why is she protecting the doctor instead of flaunting him like a banner?

Let's get our heads out the little clouds and start looking at the bigger picture. There are far more important questions surrounding this situation that is not getting the attention it needs.

I agree with you here it not the poor babies fault they were broght into this world but because of their mothers need or want these babies are by all means inocent and lord help them, but I disagree that we as christians are to be the one to foot the bills for this parade these children would be far better in the care of someone who can give them the true care they are going to need, I really hate to say or see it happen but these poor babies would be far better off in homes not to remain with their mother

God allowed this to happen for a reason. Though we may not now know the reason, we will someday. It is NOT our place as Christians to sit and judge, but to love this family as it was our own. Everyone keeps bringing up the issue of adopting them out or getting the babies into a better home situation. Isn't it best to keep them together ?? and who's going to adopt or foster octuplets? if you're not a parent already, taking on 8 new babies is not a good idea for anyone involved. so...no matter how you feel about the mother or doctor involved, the best solution for the babies really is to remain with her and let God's plan for them unfold and reveal itself in His time.

Glad to hear you say that Jessi, because they will be a part of your "home". Your tax dollars and higher health care preiums will be paying for this village for a longggg time! This was not God's will....she chose to do this! It was God's will that she not have kids naturally!! But she chose not to listen.

Coach Jessi if God really wanted her to have 14 kids don't you think that she would have been able to have them naturally? Her tubes are blocked, and that is why she had IVF. IVF isn't God's work, its man's. What she did is selfish, and unfair to those kids. They all have been born into poverty. How can she take care of them alone, go to school, and financially support them. Plus God didn't give women the ability naturally conceive that many babies at one time. The most that I have ever heard of naturally conceived it three.

So Coach Jessi,

I guess it is God's plan when kids born into homes like this one wind up joining street gangs and shooting innocent people, right?

I got news for you, everything is not God's plan. Man was granted the ability to make a choice by God's grace. Sometimes man (or woman) makes the wrong choice. That is not God's plan or his will.

By the way I am a Christian. I just get ticked off when someone does something stupid and then a Christian tries to say that God planned it.

God doesn't decided who can have kids and who can't. If this decision was left up to him do you really think god would allow people who abuse their children and even murder them to have them to begin with and not allow people who will give a child a loving home not to have kids.

If it's true that god decides who will be allowed to have kids and who doesn't then that make him a monster in my eyes.

Now that was deep!

I would like to believe, and I could be wrong, the only assistance that God provided was that these babies make it into this world safely. Everything happens for a reason and we are not to question his motives. Something good will come out of this ugly mess, we must have faith.

Her tubes are blocked. That is why she had IVF. She can't have babies without help. She shouldn't have been allowed to have any since she had no money and no means to support one let alone 14.

Exactly!! And while we're at it, what ABOUT child support? Last I heard, unless science has advanced dramatically, there still had to be a male donor abetting this insanity. Is she now going to hold this poor fool hostage for all 14?? If so, I bet he'll never, ever donate anything else in this lifetime. And not because he won't be able to afford it either ;-P

Roc "Rottiemom mom" give me a break!

You started this off so good. I agree with many of your points, but do you honestly believe a woman who has achieved a Bachelor's Degree, worked for a mental hospital is lazy? Premediatated yes, lazy????? I believe her and her Dr. came up with a plan and it is backfiring. It wouldn't surprise me if the Dr. was indeed the donor. Yes he should be disciplined severely for exploiting her, but look at the skills of this doctor and that should not be ignored either. I don't want to sit in judgement and say what should happen to either party because raising 14 children will be punishment enough on so many levels. Someone financed this, the doctor knew the risks as he put his plan in motion, and I'm sure she was well aware of the risks as well. Someone convinced them that the pay off would be worth the hassle, they forgot to anticipate society's reaction. Let's not be tooooooo judgemental until we hear the story from the "Horses mouth" ok?

jon and kate plus eight and the duggers were both sought out by the media channles for the rights to air their stories but itis a fact we will sit their and watch these shows. Now on the other hand the family who had eight and lost one from texas you don't see them on tv and the Iowa family who had 7 you don't see them on either they are the ones I respect the most as they are trying to keep their childrens life normal for the best and healthest growing up as possible, yes these families are brought out in the lime light everynow and then but its the media who is doing it and should never be comparied to this so called mother whos is obsessed with having babies she knew before hand that she could not afford or care for them in the proper family structure thats is needed.

Why shouldn't it be compared. Jon and Kate had twins and I suspect that there were fertility treatments involved in the 1st one. If you have 2, do you need to risk 6 and sit back and whine on TV all day?

I've watched Jon and Kate a few times, but no more. Never did watch the Duggars. I've had enough of glorification of these baby machines, out to make money while the rest of us work our butts off to feed one or two children. All these shows need to be cancelled and these families need to support THEMSELVES. They chose to have all these kids, then THEY can pay for them!

I agree completely with your comment about Jon & Kate plus 8. However, Jon does work and he seems to have a decent job. Kate stays home because it would be impractical of them to put that many kids in day care for her to work. No, I don't believe they would have it that easy if they hadn't been a photogenic family. Kate is attractive and their kids are cute. I don't watch their show, but I have seen the commercials for their show on TV.

Call it "8 Kids and Only Two Tits."

Kids are probably going to have to take a number to get fed.

How sad! Eight more fatherless children being raised in America--more breakdown of the family. How does an unemployed woman come up with the funds to pay for in-vitro fertilization, anyway?

I was thinking the same thing!

So was I. I'd like to expand on this too: if she's single and unemployed, who paid for:

the fertility treatment

the birth(s)

the publicist

I don't know how she got anybody to pay for this as I for one will tell you all I went thru phyc testing and personal history yes I had other children two they were 13-14 at the time- plus finacial check just to get one month of fertilty treatments after going thru months of intence bull crap just to have tubes untied after a bad marriage and then wonderful new marriage and five years waiting to decide if we truly wanted more children as he had none of his own, yes we both worked and had to fight just to get insurance to help cover the cost. we finally did get things done and we now have a ten yr old with multiple medical conditions but we love him no matter what, but in the same retro spect a friend of ours had no problem getting welfare to pay, she went to a clinic, they were prented her welfare card and and had fertility drugs in hand by time she left the office. where was all those questions not there as they knew they would get some payment even if at reduced rates, but what the heck pass the extra fees on to those who fight for just a chance a having a child but hey welfare mommies just show your card they'll help you have all you want so you can more of the state monies

If she had the money to get a fertility doctor to do this, then why in the heck is she on the welfare. WHERE IS THE FATHER ? She should have to pay back the welfare for all the money she has received, Let the government who now has to support these children get all the money from, book, movie, or any money that she gets for appearances on talk show. Why should we have to foot the bill, and who is going to take care of all these kids ? Oh YES WE WILL !

She likes to file disability and worker's comp claims for "work injuries". That's where her money comes from. Check out today's Los Angeles Times.

Lilly.....sperm donor! All 14 were! No daddy, no hubby, no nothing!

Still, who are you to say that having 2 and wanting just one more is any more ethical?

for one we made sure we had the finaces to provide for two we haave our own home three we are not living off the state four I said that she was a fool for doing whatshe did and we mad sure and had the doc follow our plan thank god we were smart enought to express that we did not want a pack and was percribed a very low doesage of a fertility drug and for gwcolem if you have children who says you have any more ethical rights than anybody else. I could afford to have what I got can you? thisNadyia person sure as heck can't she expects everybody else to work and give to her.