Yes, she selfishly and defiantly took her own life regardless of how it would affect others. The height of our me-me-me society is clear, your feelings, your needs be damned, its all about me! Have an "inconvenient" pregnancy? Just "terminate" it. Not happy with life, feeling a bit down? Just choose "euthanize".

Notice there was no discussion of pain, or agony... it's just "she was in declining health". She was suffering the same "terminal" illness we all are, it's called life. I could understand, perhaps, if she did have some terminal, painful condition, but there is no mention of it. This just seems like the actions of a selfish woman, more concerned about her pain, her "dignity" over the needs of others.

But that's what we're all about now.

I agree with you. Simply sick. She wasn't terminal with cancer. After reading the whole article, it is pretty apparent that this woman was severely depressed, and had been so for much of her life. Being depressed will make you sick. It will wear you down. She was really depressed and her kids and this agency gave her the out and said it was okay to kill herself because she was sad, not terminally ill. Simply sick. Perhaps her and her kids like the film Logan's Run. When your little light goes out, time to stroll on over to the incinerator. After all, if life is difficult or imperfect, perhaps it shouldn't be at all. Whatver.

My 22 year old son took his life 2 years ago because he was in so much pain. He was in continuous mental anguish because he was bi-polar type 2. He could not sleep, he was always in an agitated state, he didn't like the drugs prescribed to him and refused to take them. His manic highs and debilitating lows were too much for him to bear - he said he loved me and we parted ways from his sister's wedding shower and 3 hours later he blew his brains out with a hand gun.

Now my wife and his sisters suffer every day over this tragic loss, what could we have done to help, why didn't we see it coming, why would he do this?

So - I think this thoughtful but otherwise academic debate is missing something - and that is a discussion on the effects of those left behind.

Any organization that encourages and enables people who suffer to end their lives should consider the survivor’s stories after they enable an "event". Check back in 6 months once the headstone is in the ground and see how those relatives feel then about the decision.

No one likes to see a loved one suffer - but we are not dogs to be put down when we can't walk to the dog bowl unaided any more.

So - I agree with Darrel, don't check out - your loved ones need you more than you or they know.

Bob

Maxine did what she did for herself. RIP....Maxine.
Marcia in Pennsylvania

I have one constant fear in my life and that is that I live too long...that I become a burden on someone...to cost taxpayers money for unnecessary medical care...for the potential of abuse at the hand of strangers or family when I no longer am able to protect myself, care for my self...I believe Maxine did what she did not just to end the pain but to free her children from evenually having to decide whether she should lay in a bed not able to do anything maybe on a resperator, tube feeding, why should children be expected to deal with all the end things.....if a person is facing a painful, long drawn out life what good does it do for anyone...except those that are afraid of death? My question to people who believe in God is: If God is great and good, and heaven is a place of peace, no more pain, suffering, problems, why is it so bad to die? I believe in God and I am ready to meet him at the end of my life....Hopefully there will be someone there to help me in my final moments if I end up with the pain and suffering that Maxine lived with and all she had to look forward to for the rest of her life.....

to M burke and anyone else who would try to decide for someone else, may you experience a horrible horible death and may your family members be forced to witness and experience the whole thing.

Well said, Thank you. Yes, You must know or have suffered from depression at some point in your life... these others maybe have not??? Depression is treatable but is painful to live with. For people who have this disease it is a constant struggle. Ignorance is bliss.

Wow. What a cold, cruel sentiment to wish on anyone for any reason. In my 50 years, I've had a few opportunities to see loved ones leave this world. My dad died at home of a sudden heart attack when I was a teenager. 12 years later my mom's second husband - my beloved step-dad - died after a brief battle with lung cancer. My precious grandfather lingered for 10 long, agonzing years after a series of strokes left his beautiful mind intact, but his body partially paralyzed and wracked with constant pain. I had a front row seat to all three, and none was any easier to watch than the other. Fatal heart attacks like my dad's do not often provide a quick, painless death as some imagine. My dad's was a profoundly agonizing departure as we waited for the ambulance to arrive at our country home. My step-dad's death was mercifully quick for lung cancer, although suffocating to death is never an easy exit for anyone and certainly not easy to witness. My grandfather's suffering was hardest, but perhaps taught me more than anything in this life has about courage, grace, strength, selflessness, generosity and the capacity to love. None of these things are achieved by throwing away the most precious thing any of us is ever given - the gift of life. Not one soul who has ever lived had any say in whether or not he or she would be given the precious gift of life. So why should we be given a say in when or how it ends. Life is not ours to give nor ours to take.

MBurke,

Maxine made the right choice for herself on her own accord and nobody has the right to tell her otherwise, especially religious lunatics with personal opinions who love to put their noses in everyone's business.

You want to be "pro-life?" Go to parts of the world like Africa where children starve to death everyday and change the world. Don't claim to stand for the right to life behind a computer screen like a coward who doesn't intend to lift a finger, but only judge others for their freedom to make individual choices in life.

Hey, M Burke, did you read the article and miss the point that Maxine took her life only after she had reconciled this with her family?

Yes, great, so she took them all to the beach... I'm quite sure they would have preferred to have her around. She was 'suffering' from diseases that are either 1) not diseases (fibromyalgia) or 2) treatable and/or managable. Again, it is my position that this is the act of a selfish (and perhaps mentally ill) woman, and rather than applauding it we should recognize it for what it is.

Or should she have continued to suffer because it goes against your beliefs?

This is a great slippery slope that we're on. It used to be that it was only 'acceptable' for those with terminal illness, now you can take your life if you're having a bad day/week or whatever.

Look, I don't doubt that she, or anyone else has it rough. But this IS the 21st century, and have the technology to manage most pain... but this isn't really about pain, this is about someone who simply lost the "will" to live and found an organization willing to commit homicide.

-

Maxine made the right choice for herself on her own accord and nobody has the right to tell her otherwise

(Actually, the government does. Suicide has been illegal for many years in most states... not that you can prosecute someone for the successful attempt) But should we now make suicide available for teens who feeling the intense pressures of life want out? If not, on what consistent basis can you claim the above?

You want to be "pro-life?" Go to parts of the world like Africa where children starve to death everyday and change the world

Since they're in pain, shouldn't we provide them with euthanasia too? Should we euthanasize all those we think are incapable of having a decent life?

Don't claim to stand for the right to life behind a computer screen like a coward who doesn't intend to lift a finger, but only judge others for their freedom to make individual choices in life.

Since when is homicide a "individual choice"? Oh, yes, I forgot... since Roe v. Wade.

Melissa and M. Burke, get off of your HIGH HORSE and stop thinking of yourselves. Until you can say you walked into her shoes YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. OF course thats all you moral religious freaks do is pass judgement and expect others to live exactly as you do. Thank god I don't otherwise I would kill myself. Maxine you were brave and not weak to stop the suffering. RIP and know that all these mortal retards that think they have figured out what exactly God wants really are satans tools. You made the right choice because it was YOUR choice and nobody elses. I hope to be as brave as you. RIP

Bob 1:3 , I'm sorry to hear about your son . I'm sure that he was suffering and had a MENTAL illness . That's the big difference between him and Maxine . She just wanted to check out . Apparently she didn't feel like handling the physical pain .

If it's any consolation to you Bob , I have a brother that was so close to the edge of physically hurting himself that it's just a miracle he is alive now . This was about 15 years ago before he was diagnosed with psychophrenia . Here's the thing , he was living with my father who was a M.D. . I'm guilty as well as my brothers because I'd go to the house and check on him a few times a week . He clearly was getting worse . We finally got him the help he needed after he had a disagreement with a police officer . However , that was just luck , it EASILY could have been way too late like in your case . I think it's human nature that we don't want to acknowledge a weak link in our families . I'm sorry Bob , I just wanted you to know that I don't think it's uncommon for a parent / brother /sister / wife / husband , to put what others see as obvious on the back burner and hope for the best . I think it's human nature .

May God bless you, Bob-- and your family. You will be in my prayers.

Sad, very sad! Not only is suicide illegal it's immoral. Suicide is the only unforgivable sin. God gives us life and HE alone chooses when we die. Although I feel very sad for people when they get so low that their only way out, in their mind, is suicide. Unfortunately for them where they spend eternity will be far more painful then where they spent their living years. She will continue to be miserable even in death and for what. The only one she didn't consult with and the only important one was God. And since it was obvious she had no faith then God did not know her and turned her away. It's very sad.

And shame on the daughters for condoning such an act. Just another selfish act in this grossly me-istic society we live in. I like to call it the "disposable society". We use and waste everything even other people. How pathetic we have become.

Tire of the BS

Melissa and M. Burke, get off of your HIGH HORSE and stop thinking of yourselves. Until you can say you walked into her shoes YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. OF course thats all you moral religious freaks do is pass judgement and expect others to live exactly as you do. Thank god I don't otherwise I would kill myself. Maxine you were brave and not weak to stop the suffering. RIP and know that all these mortal retards that think they have figured out what exactly God wants really are satans tools. You made the right choice because it was YOUR choice and nobody elses. I hope to be as brave as you. RIP

You are pathetic. You really put your ignorance on display here. You're talking to a dead person. Do you think Maxine is reading these posts? IF you knew anything about God, which you don't, you would have a better understanding of how life works. However, God has chosen to harden your heart and therefore leaving you blind to His truth. You are the self-rightoues judemental ass being rude. People are poor examples of true Christianity therefore they should not be used to determine God's purpose. It is you who are satans tool spreading hatred with your ignorance. Perhaps you should try praying to the Lord and asking for some guidance. In your post you "thank god I'm not otherwise I would kill myself."..Number one, God isn't listening to you but satan is. You better watch what you wish for because satan will drive you mad and make you kill yourself. Just like he did to Maxine. I will pray for you and your soul because you are truly at a loss for the truth. No human is perfect and anyone that professes to be is not a person of God or faith. I'm sorry for you.

Have a blessed day! Unless you chose not too.

No blind patriot

to M burke and anyone else who would try to decide for someone else, may you experience a horrible horible death and may your family members be forced to witness and experience the whole thing.

Be careful what you wish for...what goes around comes around. Shame on you for your hatred of a complete stranger. May God have mercy on your pathetic soul.

M. Burke....AMEN!

LP7691 says: "You are the self-rightoues judemental ass being rude."

As one Christian to another...isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?? Be careful how you display your values...stone throwing is not becoming and puts a blight on Christianity.

If, as Christians we believe in free will, then it was of Maxines own free will in which she ended her life. Perhaps God was calling her home. Perhaps this was God's plan for Maxine. Who are we to judge her decision? All we can do is love and forgive.

I'm sure that many people offered her alternatives to her final choice, but in the end, it was her choice. Yes, depression does do silly things to your mind. I have been depressed many times and in significant pain as well. My choice would be different to Maxine's but then again, it's mine.

I myself have seen people with fibromyalgia. It is too painful beyond words. I know 2 people who have it. It isn't in their heads the pain is real. If I was in the way that Maxine was I more than likely would do the same thing. Can you imagine being in pain almost everyday of your life?

She wasn't heartless one bit. I had to do the same thing for my cat. Being heartless is letting the person suffer. it was really hard to put my cat to sleep but I knew she was in unbearable pain, I could see it. She was beyond the scope of her getting healed.

Going off topic sorry, but Maxine felt the same way about herself as I felt about my cat. it isn't heartless. What would have been heartless would have been her daughters if they did not agree. Though I can understand their perspective too. The thought of losing one of my parents would be heartbreaking and an unbearable thought.

LP7691 said: "Suicide is the only unforgivable sin. "

Wrong.

Denying the Holy Spirit is the only "unforgivable" sin - that's Biblical.
If you're going to argue with religion (which you were partly right on - about God valuing life), don't mess it up by extending Scripture beyond what it is. That's a sin, too (read last part of Revelations).

Personally, I don't know how I feel about this. Not been in the position of having someone commit suicide, so can't speak for that.

My dad had lung cancer - chemo and radiation had stopped the growth, but wasn't shrinking the tumors. So did he kill himself by deciding to stop treatment because he was suffering? It's kind of dangerous to lean to far in either direction on this.

Bless you, Darrel. I am so sorry you are suffering with such horrible pain. I wish they could help you more. My hopes and prayers.

At least, Maxine is no longer suffering agonizing, pain. RIP. It was her body and her mind that set her free. None of us wish to see our pets suffer, and we act quickly to end their agony. Why do we even question a person's right to end their journey here?

Why should it be criminal to end the suffering and misery of a fellow human? We feel the need to, at least, do this final act of compassion and kindness for our pets. Why do we expect our beloved to endure and endure...

Very well written Darrel. Chronic pain is something that people can only imagine unless they live with it on a daily basis. I work on people with chronic pain and have a mother with it. Too bad our medical system is based on pills and not on holistic care. We are afraid as a society to speak openly about death. The difference between suicide and this article is the grieving process can occur WITH the person. You can say what you want, hold their hand, etc. It would be scary to know you're just biding time (can't have everyone around all the time....probably scared to be alone). BUT this is where good dialogue would be very beneficial. Dietary considerations are HUGE. An AMAZING read for anyone with serious health problems is The pH Miracle (ISBN# 0-446-69049-x). Good quality mental health care in our country is WAY behind the game. It's more of a pharmacy ran program than anything. No talk of how precious life is. Why can't we have free health care again? Outreach programs for people with chronic pain and/or terminal illness? There's a lot more to the picture than meets the eyes unfortunately. RIP Maxine.

I met a person with debilitating arthritis...he found pills no longer help...but marijuana did...

He was a foster father for many children in this state, and would have them leave as teens if they took drugs...it was hard for him, but he totally complies with state regulations...nobody in the home when he doses and regrets it is the only thing that helps...

There are forms of massage, physical therapy, chiropractry, nutritional supplements that can be of great help that only in the past 3 years are now finally being looked at by the medical profession for better patient comfort care.

Kayleen, I use many of the therapies that you have suggested. I was into bodybuilding when I fell, one of the doctors that bolted me back together stated that if I had not been in premium shape I would probably have ended up quadriplegic. In addition to the therapies you stated I have found accupressure to also be a help. The marijuana use falls into one of the discussions of this string, the practice of telling someone what they can or can not do with their own body. When presented with the opportunity I can actually get some sleep without my usual routine of washing down the muscle relaxers and pain killers with a couple of drinks. Personally I believe that it is the ignorance of the general public and the effect of the alchohol industry PAC that keeps marijuana illegal but this discussion is best left for a different string.

Good post Darrel

I'm not a fan of suicide but understand that some people are really suffering without any hope of getting better.

I lost Mom in a car accident. I wish more than anything I would have had the chance to tell her goodbye.

Maxine gave her family closure. That was a very valuable gift.

Bless you Darrel, my heart goes out to you as well as prayers, Thank god your mind is strong enough to help you live with your tragedy and to see your worth in helping others, No one truly knows what it's like till your there, god gives some the ability to almost feel the total pain of other people, But only the person there knows the whole story.

Though I may not agree with the concept of killing one self, And who knows I may feel alot different about it if and when I get there, I can how ever see or feel why some would choose to do so. I just pray I can be half the person Darrel seems to be if it comes.

And at-least she DID talk to her children about it, as it said the one was against it at first. So they being older kinda learned to understand why she was going to do this.

IF anyone on here is thinking of doing this for any reason and especially if they have young children, STOP DON'T DO IT, Younger children are more apt to see it as the mother didn't love them no matter how much you have told them other wise, and that will have repercussions for them the rest of their lives, not only with self esteem but relationships with others as well.

As for name calling it has no purpose but to degrade someone and make them feel bad and there response in turn usually does the same, Let God be the judge. Judge not lest we be judged. Add views on a matter with out names and attacking each other is the wisest thing to do.

I agree wholeheartedly. Why should society decide what one can live with? RIP indeed!

Amen, SouthernBelle! It's not my body, it's Maxine's, and if she decides her pain is unbearable and she doesn't wish to have more suffering, who am I to tell her otherwise, impose my beliefs, or force her to live with more pain? I'm not the one who can barely stand, it's her, it's none of my business, nor anyone else's, so everyone who is not in this position should butt out. Let people do what they wish with their bodies, and if you believe it's a sin or whatever, then let them take it up with their God, don't try to impose your religious beliefs on these people! RIP Maxine, I am glad your suffering has ended.

It's an interesting topic that's not as clear cut as most of the comments make it out to be. We're all "terminal", we just don't know exactly what's going to do us in. Having two doctors give it a name doesn't really change anything.

On one hand you have cases like Maxine, where it wasn't so much that she was terminally ill, it was that she had so much pain that death seemed a reasonable alternative. But what about a severely depressed mother or father of young children? It's possible that their outlook on life could improve dramatically with treatment and medication...Would we stand by while they choose to end their lives?

I wonder, if agencies like Final Exit became more mainstream, might some people be saved from suicide because there would be someone there to intervene and provide treatment in the cases of clinical depression?

If I were in Maxine's shoes, I might have chosen to end my life as well...No way to know for sure. But I definitely wouldn't want some random dude there holding my hand while I did it...That's well on the other side of the creepy line. But if Maxine wanted it, it is, as they say, her funeral.

So if it is her body, and she should be allowed to kill herself, should she also have the choice to be a prostitute? I am curious. WE allow women to terminate their unborn child's life, and those here want to let women (people) choose to die when they may, so shouldn't we also allow people, men and women, to prostitute legally or do illicit drugs "legally"? It's their body, they aren't hurting anyone, right? Who is the government to say what we can and can't do with our own bodies? I find it ridiculous that people want to be able to end their lives because we shouldn't let the government determine that for us, yet we want the government to determine wages for company executives; we want them to determine our health care; determine our education; determine our religion; andl limit our choices for so many other "freedoms". What makes the choice to kill yourself different than the other choices? Please, enlighten me, because I think people are so screwed up right now. All I hear is "I want my cake and I want to eat it too (and I also want someone else to pay for it!)

I think the first series of questions you asked are to be answered with YES, exactly!! Should you be able to do what you want with your body? HELL YES!! Drugs? If that's your thing. Prostitution? If that's your thing. Are they morally correct? That's up for debate. "As long as they're not hurting people" is an interesting point Don. Take smoking for instance. It was "legal" inside buildings and still is in places. Does that have the propensity to kill you? YUP. Ever been affected by a drunk person? That's "legal." "What makes the choice to kill yourself different from the other choices?" Nothing. If you really want to do them you will. The problem is Don there are these problems out there but we do the "cover your eyes" routine to them instead of making them a societal focus. We are too caught up in the fodder of it all. The truth and the hard talk are an elusive beast. We'll all have tough choices to make as our lives wear on. May we all enjoy our blessings to be here, right NOW!!

Another aspect of the dilemma is that advances in medicine have prolonged the lifespan of very ill people. Unfortunately, it is not always a good quality of life. Once the patient is on the meds, then it becomes "wrong" for them to stop taking them and let nature take its course. Having watched my Father live through 9 years of dialysis, I don't believe others should tell the ill what they are supposed to do. My Father was in constant pain the last years of his life, taking doses of pain meds that would have normal people out cold and STILL he was in pain. He endured the pain because he chose to. His life ended with a massive stroke, but, that ended up good for him as he didn't want to have to be put in a Nursing Home. He dreaded that option and had stated he would stop dialysis treatment if he became that debilitated. Our family respected his decisions about his treatment, and made his life the best that we could. He had 6 Doctors and it is extremely difficult to treat a person with multiple health problems. No person is exactly like the next, there is no one answer for this issue.

My son took his life 7 months ago. I would really like to know what is going through your mind when you do this. Not in Maxine's case with reasons but just a young person doing this.

To Mrspostman,

You can never truly know what goes through someone else mind, no matter how close, or how much you love them. As a person with a chronic, incurable illness, I know how someone could reach that place in their heart and mind where they just can't go on. Sometimes the pain, mental or physical, is just too much. I love my family and my spouse, but, they can never truly feel what I feel. Find someone to talk to, a support person or group, you can survive this loss if you want to. Survive and thrive!

Sorry to tell you CMF, but it's a free country, whether you like NBC to publish the name "FEN" or all the list of all instruments Maxine used, these are all easy to obtain goods and can easily be found on the internet. If you don't want to read or research the means to end your life, that's your right, but you can't censor the internet either. The information is out there for all who seek it.

I'm glad you made it back. I hope you have a long happy life. Apparently, the only person Maxine didn't talk to was a priest.

mrspostman, my condolescences on the loss of your son.

Some people don't need a priest.

Choosing to die is a private decision.

@ CMF:

You got your information somewhere.

Don't kill the messenger.

Mrspostman:

I'm sorry for your loss and the pain it caused. I don't know the circumstances, but it probably had nothing to do with you as a person or a mother.

I try to remember that we all die eventually and a longer life is not necessarily a better one. I think of all the people that have come before me in human history and all that will come after me and know that I'm just one of them, no better, no worse. I'm not religious anymore (though raised Catholic), but recognize a spark or energy in all of us that probably endures afterwards.

I hope you can find some peace.

Thank you for the all the condolences. It's been awhile since I checked this sight, as you can see. We are getting through this somehow. It was a year last week and we made it. My other son and his family, my husband and myself spent a long weekend together and we got through the first year. It doesn't get easier but we just take it day by day. Thanks again.

Been an athiest for the last 40 years. These sorts of stories always anger me because I don't see why society makes it so difficult for people that want to end their life for whatever reason.

My life is my responsibility and in a nation that prides itself on allowing people to be individuals the hassle that we are made to go through is criminal.

yes i am...i would have done the same thing....i dont believe in god ,never met, never heard from, no need for, they say he is just there to make people feel that there not alone....

and yes we are alone , we die and we disapear,execpt in minds of others

science has proven all organized religions lacking to some degree. The greatest use a person could make of his/ her lifetime is to find some way that will benifit others and leave the world a better place.

I am Roman Catholic. Suicide is a sin. I have contemplated it many times.

I do not believe a loving God will condemn a person who chooses death over a life of pain. God does not give the pain nor take it away. He does allow us free will.

Those of you who can't conceive the notion that death is a choice for people, also can't conceive the level of pain people are in, be it physical or emotional. Pain is pain and there isn't always a pill to take it away.

Death can be merciful.

I don't know if I consider myself an aetheist or just an agnostic. I think we all came from somewhere, but that's a far cry from saying we all came from one God with a plan for us and all that.

But in reading the responses here, I'm...disappointed to see so many religious people sounding so judgemental and closed minded. People oftentimes don't die well, surrounded by loved ones in a peaceful setting. Determining the time and place of one's own death is a personal decision that we all actually possess, it's just that religious types and other control freaks want us to feel guilty and bad about ever considering it.

We're all going to die eventually--doctors certainly know this. Why is there so much judgement and negative talk about others who choose to go at a time they decide upon?

This was a positive story for me. I'm glad Maxine and her family, in their own circumstances, could be at some peace with this decision.

Maxine made the right choice for herself on her own accord and nobody has the right to tell her otherwise, especially religious lunatics with flawed personal opinions who love to put their noses in everyone's business.

For all intents and purposes, yes, I'm not sure I believe in God, and yet, I'm pro-life (for the most part) and don't think assisted suicide should be legal in all but the most terminal of situations. I question the motive of these"euthanasia providers". They get paid you know. Money talks. Same reason abortion is legal. It pays well, very well. My older brother is severely depressed. Has been his whole life. Never diagnosed, not interested. He chooses to blame everyone else for all the bad things in his life. He turned to food and is now morbidly obese. He has to have a machine breathe into him at night because he suffers apnea, his backbone had to be fused (his weight was crushing it), he suffers horrible joint pain, he has very low self-esteem and is often angry and antisocial. All this is related to untreated depression from his earliest days. This group would take advantage of one like my brother and convince him that it is better to die than take responsibilty for his mental health, begin treatment and counceling, take charge with bariatric (or exercise) and start living again. In this case, I think it was an issue of mental health, not true terminal illness or quality of life questions. I watched my beloved grandmother take 5 years to fade into oblivion from Alzheimer's. She forgot to eat, she broke her bones, but refused casts because she didn't know why she had them on. In the end, we prayed for her peaceful passing, yet not once, not once, did wee request she receive a little extra sedative or anything like that. We didn't go out of our way to preserve her (did not authorize a feeding tube) and we didn't have someone snuff her out with a lethal mixture of barbituates. Her body was very strong. My grandfather passed from lung cancer that spread to his brain. He said, well, let's head home when they diagnosed him. He knew they couldn't save him. We took him home against medical advice and he passed 3 weeks later surrounded by family. Not once, did we ask for anyone to speed him into that good night. It is a case by case basis no doubt, but for the most part, not trusting the motive of these organizations that deal in death, I'd say it should be illegal.

Melissa in NorCal:

A couple of things I don't understand. If you're not sure you believe in a God, then who did you pray to and why in your grandmother's case?

And seeing the way your brother does live--not the way he COULD live, but DOES live--why would you want him to continue living in that misery if he were to choose otherwise?

Perhaps I could elaborate a little more on my views. I agree wholeheartedly that the government should not have any input as to what a person wants to do with their body. I do not have the right or duty to tell someone else what to do and refuse to grant then the ability to tell me what to do.

I was raised in a christian (presbyterian) home. After my NDE my beliefs have changed dramatically to the point that I now believe that there is no one religion that has "it" right. However, I can not dismiss that presence, that entity which compelled me, very much against my wishes, back to this reality.

I am definitely a science oriented person but I have found that it in no way conflicts with my "experience/knowledge" gained in my NDE. A grossly oversimplified example could be stated as - prove to me that the missing link that scientists search for in the evolution of humans was not a simple input from an infinitley knowledgable being that operates in that other plane of existence. Another scientific point that plays into this discussion would be the 1st law of thermodynamics "energy is never created nor destroyed, the sum total of all energy remains constant." What happens to that energy that is our consciousness, the essence of our being, our soul, when we die? My experience is that is crosses into a different plane of existence. A plane that does not have the restrictions of time and space.

I could go on for hours but I just got a sick kid at school call and have to go. I will have to finish this post later.

Many in this string have stated that one of the issues here is how vile and morbid it is for some company to be making a profit for providing this service? and I couldn't agree more.

Kristie Powell stated what I have come to accept as the answer to the biggest question we face, what is the meaning of life? Why am I here? Stated a little differently than Kristie and summed into one sentence the answer is the acquisition and sharing of knowledge. Our existence here is a training ground for the next realm. My experience is in direct opposition of Brians statement that "yes we are alone , we die and we disapear,execpt in minds of others ". During my NDE I suffered no loss of cognitive capabilities. The closest analogy I could lay out for someone would be if a few seconds from now you would awaken to find yourself in a hospital bed and be told that you had been in a coma for years that your experiences in this realm were all a figment of your imagination. Would you believe the doctors or would you maintain that there is something else, that there is some other existence.

Good post, Darrel. We've spoken before, I think, and I, too, am a scientist. I certainly agree with what you say, and would like to add that I believe that God shows different faces to different people. The God that I believe in is merciful, just, and loving.

I have faced death twice, but never had a real NDE. I live with arthrits, heart failure, etc. Despite the constant, nagging arthitis, so far, nothing has gotten so bad that I need to end my life just to get some peace. But, I have had nights when I've thought about it. The worst part about the heart attack and subsequent by-pass surgery was living with the knowledge that I couldn't take care of myself, and was dependent on others for my daily subsistance--for awhile. And I had a 3 year old son to care for. I have since come to accept most of my physical limitations--yet, believe me, I fight to retain the abiity to take care of myself as much as possible.

I do not want to live my life as a burden on others. I don't want to use all of my family's resources to keep me alive when my son needs to go to school, and my husband may need care in the future. As long as I can add to society I want to be here adding. I hope with all of my heart, that when my time comes, I can go with dignity and grace, filled with love in my heart for my family, friends, and fellow man.

I say that Maxine made the decision that was right for her, and that her family came to terms with that-- understanding that it was the right decision for her. Maxine is in a better place. I can not presume to understand God's plan, but perhaps Maxine's death had a purpose for all of us. Maybe her death will allow us to become more accepting of our own mortality--and help us to see that each of us have our own limits, and that those limits can not be dictated by others.

May God bless Maxine and her family.

Melissa in NorCal,

If you think abortion is legal because it pays a lot, you are sadly mistaken. Do you know what women were doing before? Having abortions anyway, using anything from dangerous herbs to coat hangers to back-alley doctors. Would you rather the woman die in a pool of blood than go to a free clinic and get a legal, sterile abortion of an unwanted child who wouldn't've gotten the best of care anyway?

I've noticed that when you've never been in a situation like Maxine's, or ever had to make any kind of difficult choice regarding life and death, it's really easy to judge. I've been there thought. I watched my mother suffer and die from pancreatic cancer. She went from a strong, healthy woman to a wasted shell in a little under a year. She opted not to undergo treatment of any kind. She was a religious woman, a Christian, and I don't think she would have chosen to end her life, but it would be no one's place to forbid her if she had so chosen. At the end, her spirit was trapped inside a body that had quit responding. Who wants to be imprisoned thus?

What reward can there possibly be that is worth enduring such brutal agony? We all have our own beliefs about what comes after death--I for one think maybe we get a chance to come back and try again until we've achieved that transcendent understanding necessary to pass to the next stage of existence--but there is no proof. Who can say if an NDE is for real, or just an illusion cast by the dying mind? All we know for sure is we are here, in this life, and we must make the best of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating suicide. I've been affected too much by it. Over the years I've lost two friends to suicide, and when I was seven, the cops came knocking on our door at oh-dark-thirty to tell me that my brother killed himself and they found the body downtown. I also know what it's like to want to end your life. Gotten pretty close a couple times, but the thing that stopped me every time was the thought of my family and friends wondering "What could I have done differently to keep her alive? Was there something I could have said?" Yet, in the end, if someone is really determined to off themselves, there's nothing you can say or do that will change their mind. In the end, whatever it is that brings them down is bigger than love, bigger than life itself and all the fleeting splendor thereof.

We have the common decency to put old pets down when their bodies fail. No loving pet owner would be so selfish as to let their pet linger on in misery. Why should it be any different with humans?

Hello dark_faerie

I have had an NDE and can confirm your belief --I for one think maybe we get a chance to come back and try again until we've achieved that transcendent understanding necessary to pass to the next stage of existence. That is in the vein of what I was trying to say in my post above, that this is a school for us, a training ground for the next realm. It has been my experience that you can tell an individuals progression along that road. The term I use when discussing the topic is that person is an old soul or a young soul.

To those who are troubled by the abortion topic I would offer this word of comfort. Those little ones are so very special they in essence get to take the short track to Heaven. Those little ones you are so concerned about are actually old souls who are so lucky as to serve their purpose in life without being burdened by actually having to make one more trip through this existence. Peace be with you:-)

..and of course not for any human to 'judge'...RIP Maxine and condolences to the family..very sad when anyone or anything dies under such circumstances...lucky my Dad had my Mom to hold his hand and the morphine used to put him out...was the right thing to do... period

Bob, Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Not because he was having a crappy day and just decided to end his life. Get a clue

@ Dillweed:

Actually he was having a crappy day. The Romans were mad at him and the Jews betrayed him. He allowed himself to be crucified, he had a choice.

NTL, it's not relevant to the conversation.

Um...Jesus wasn't betrayed by the Jews. Get your history right before you comment. Jesus WAS a Jew. Stay on point. Jesus chose to allow himself to be killed as a martyr therefore it was like suicide. As for all of this...there so many ways a person can die before they actually die and it sounds like this Maxine's soul (no spirituality intended) had died a long time prior to her body. She was alone (article points out she had disengaged from her familiy at an earlier time), she was physically hurting with no actuall diagnosis, but many mini ailments. She was frustrated, alone, depressed, hurting and probably an empty shell of a human being. Finally, her one companion (her dog) was put down and she was left in a state of total dispair and isolation.

We can all sit here and judge and comment. We can say she was selfish, burn in hell, totally just and in her right as a human being. All I can say is after watching countless family members suffer through pain, dementia, mental illness, be kept alive too long...there are worse things than death.

If you're going to do it you're going to find a way. At least Ap get's it done right and painless.

If you're going to do it you're going to find a way. At least Ap get's it done right and painless.

I find that most of the people I know that favor assisted suicide, and please don't sugar coat because thats what it is, also tend to be pro choice and anti death penalty. So I sincerly ask, if this helium and hood method is absolutly painless and all you do is go to sleep, would you not protest it were it used for capital punishment? I am willing to bet that some group would try or the inmates themselves. And how do you know it is painless (for maxines sake I truly hope it was!) unless you've tried it? Well you know because in this case you choose to believe it so. It eases your minds and gives you justification.

The next question would be, what constitutes pain! Does it have to be physical? Maybe it should be enough for a teenager going through what we all went through but believing they are the first and only ones who know the pain. And then they can go to a group who believes unconditionally that everyone has the right to choose thier time! Or maybe we will become SO enlightened as a society that we can just turn over the decision to our kids teachers. You know, the way the laws say that teachers can council our daughters to have an abortion without consulting us as parents.

Oh, but there will never be systematic abuse of something as beautiful and tender and caring as someones right to choose! They thought the same thing right after Roe vs Wade! And abortion has become a huge corporation earning planned parenthood and others quite a tidy warchest (profit). I don't mean to digress into another issue, but if you are considering an issue on ethical basis, you must play it out to it's unfortunate logical and historical end. So I think there is a little more at stake then one sweet ladies sad and painful existance.

RIP Maxine, I hope you have found the place you sought. I mean that in only the kindest way.

The point is ....IT IS UP TO YOU. Besides, if you understood Darwin, once you have reproduced and passed on your genes, what you do afterwards is irrelevant.

The "selection" is before reproduction, not after...

Maybe someday you'll get there and see how she felt.

I have suffered through acid reflux and suffer from degenerative bone disease and insomnia. None of that is a reason to end my life. Fybromyalgia a controversial "disease" many call it a psychiatric not physical illness. Maxine's story sounds like someone who suffered lifelong depression.

Amen!!! We all suffer as we age. I just lost my beloved Mother in February. She was nearly 88 years old. Since I can remember she has not been well. She had an enlarged heart since I was a child. She had rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes and she lived alone for many years after my father died of cancer. This brave woman could hardly get about for the last few years, but maintained her love of life. I know she did not have a day without great pain, but she loved us and life. Thank God my mother didn't take this route. She made such an impact on her children as a role model for how to live one's life. It might be one's decision on whether to end their lives or not, but it affects everyone in the lives and around them. I would have never gone along with this. As for we put dog's to sleep, yes, but dogs can't reason as we do and make the best of things.

Insomnia, try melatonin, and for aching bones, try MSM pure form both over the counter; acid reflux raise the foot of your bed up with books or other blocks...learn to find out which foods trigger the reflux...eat protein, avoid coffee, alcohol, greasy food....

I am amazed that everyone can just "explain" away her pain. I know plenty of people with fibromyalgia and I don't think that the pain that they are in is psychiatric. When you are someone who lives with chronic pain, yes you can be depressed. But try this; remember your last toothache, the one that had you in tears because it hurt so much. Now imagine that pain everyday of your life. You take enough pain meds that it would make most people loopy, that's how you keep going. Imagine that you’re not able to sleep at night, that having someone give you a hug hurts, that on a pain scale you live at an eight, those are the people that consider suicide and it’s after years and years of this. It is not an easy decision that happens instantly. Don’t judge someone until you’ve walked in their shoes.

Kayleen, you are truly clueless.

Kayleen, don't mean to raise the HEAD of the bed? I have acid reflux, and raising the foot of the bed would make it worse...

Have a great day--

Why should one "fear" god...if there is one? Free will IS the gift we all have...my cat will never be able to make that choice.

Jon, if you want to fear god that's your choice. But I as an atheist can make my own decisions and if that means ending my life on my terms and at the time of my choosing, that's none of your or society's concern. It's my choice and mine alone.

Just looking at the response to this story is amazing. Most claim to be atheist or make suggestions there is no God therefore they see no reason not to end it all when you are tired of living instead of being called home by him. Sorry for you who are missing out on a relationship with God knowing him and loving him. There is no more precious gift than the gift of life. I feel badly that Maxine did not seek the help from the professionals that she needed during her lifetime. It sounded like many of the diseases she suffered from could have been from stress discord in her life that finially played out in making her so ill. I don't know which is sadder her poor quality of life or that she chose to end it.

Jon:
"The God fearing country we used to be" is all in your mind. Sure, some people did fear him and still do. But that old school fear-based religion seems to have faded away in modern times, so religions reinvented God as everyone's new best friend, someone to love instead of fear. So now it's in vogue to have a personal relationship with God...

But not everyone is monotheistic. Some are polytheistic. Some are agnostic. Others are aethiestic. Your one-size-fits-all answer really does not belong in America since the 1st Amendment of the Constitution gives us all freedom of religion--and freedom FROM it as well.

Jon You said it all in one sentence "God fearing country" and this is sound religious advice? As an athiest, not believing in god, I find it reprehensible that "god" instills so much fear into those who believe they may have sinned against him/her. What I fear is those who try to instill their own beliefs and insist that they are "gods" beliefs. I don't believe and never could in a "god" that is to be feared. That goes against common sense, but then who said religions made any sense. We have mercy on our pets when they are infirmed and in pain, yet we can't offer the same respect for humans. There is something terribly wrong here. RELIGION.

I second both of you.

And brave ones.

Heather, I applaud your open mindedness and your devotion. I'm agnostic (born & raised Catholic) and while I condemn no one's right to worship, there are many who condemn my (and other folks') right to question. If God is so good (and not to be feared, as I believe that is RIDICULOUSLY misinterpreted) he would not fault one of his "children" for deciding to end her pain and suffering in a responsible way. Personally, I would have done the medicinal cannibus route, but hey, that gets expensive if you linger on... ;-)

I highly doubt that Maxine went to heaven. It's Gods choice when you die, not your own. This story is very creepy to me. I'm Catholic and if you decide to take your own life, you better prepare for the extreme heat-Hell

Dillweed.....judge not brother.

Dillweed, sometimes a little compassion goes a long way.

Perhaps you are one of the fortunate ones...never having had anything devastating happen to you. So it may be hard for you to have genuine empathy for someone who is "shutting down".

Or perhaps you could be confined in a wheelchair, dead from the chest down, and feeling a sense of moral superiority because you had to "suck it up and deal", so why not everybody else.

Concider this, you won't know that for sure until it's your turn, and really, dude, your flippant and cruel remarks were very un-Christ like. Christian love should be compassionate and forgiving.

I don't know..sometimes it's hard to sort out the Christians from the pedantics.

Hahaha. I'm calling your bluff, Dillweed.

Dillweed:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Isn't that what YOUR savior said? I don't remember him picking up a stone to hurl.

Agreed!