Read you loud and clear. Unfortunately, I'm not a liberal in Congress and won't get to vote on it.

Well said chop007, glad you were first on the Vine today! But we also need to fix the job problem first as well. Not going to matter if the other things you ask for is fixed, when there will be so many without a job. Those jobs would create opportunities for more enrollment in employer sponsored health care programs. Every person on a private program will be better off and less of a burden on the govt. Keep the govt. programs for those who TRULY need it, not those who think the govt. owes them everything.

You are exactly right chop007. That would work if that was the real plan behind government health care. The problem is that it is all about control. When the government controls your health care, they control your capital, your choices, your freedom, and another chunk of your life. This Marxist president, this Marxist Congress, are out of control. Margaret Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is eventually they run out of YOUR money." Vote against anyone who votes for this tyrannical government health care bill or "Cap and Trade". The Marxists are trying their hardest to ruin our economy and our way of life.

The liberals like to brag about England's Health Care. Did you know there are more government administrators in their health care system than there are Doctors and Nurses combined. Did you know that England's Health care System is the third largest employer in the world? China's Red Army is #1. Funny thing... England doesn't brag about it's health care.

Total BS. The reform is meant to cover the uninsured, the unable to afford insurance and the insurable. So that only leaves the illegals. I've heard that shouldn't be a problem in their own countries since the ERs are empty because everyone came here. So once its set up, any one going to an ER without health insurance will have a big flag blinking over their head saying :illegal, illegal".

For Republicans, life is cheap; all that matters is corporate profits.

Note that at the end of the article it says the support for these hospitals has been a target for years. So when Republicans finally defund there hospitals and block healthcare reform, I guess the poor will just have to die. But be assured, for-profit hospitals and insurance companies will be free to charge even more because there will be no alternatives for anybody.

The Dems are asking for these cuts also. So get your head out into the light The system does need change, but to ram something through is idiotic. They keep using 47 million uninsured in this country, but how many of that 47 million are illegals, or people who would rather spend the money on something else.

This Marxist president, this Marxist Congress,

Yes, because these capitalist insurance companies are doing such a fine job of taking care of everyone.

They keep using 47 million uninsured in this country, but how many of that 47 million are illegals

That would be none of them.

They are illegal, they don't get counted. 

or people who would rather spend the money on something else.

Like food or rent.

Quit trying to justify this mess by trying to say "it's only the bad people that have this problem" 

Start being ashamed that America can not come up with a better plan for itself.

Only both sides are not the same. Democrats are doing their best to get you a fair deal on insurance and trying to be honest. Republicans are spreading lies to get old people all upset.

The fate of these hospitals actually has nothing to do with the healthcare reform bill, and a lot to do with the bias of Associated Press.

The last paragraph says funding for these hospitals has been a target for years (probably exactly the last 8 years); the only connection to Health care reform is that their clients might soon have alternatives.

The savings of going single-payer would cover everybody for less than we pay now. Most of the complexity in health care reform is in trying to keep the thieving health insurance corporations around. Insurance companies send 30% of premiums trying to not insure people who need insurance, paying insurance CEOs hundreds of millions of dollars that don't improve anybody's health, or on advertising to convince us we are getting something we are not.

85% of us have insurance. so cutting insurance companies out would save 30%, insuring those without insurance would cost 15%. That means we could cover everybody and still spend 15% less than we do now.

Numerous representatives have said on many occasions, health care reform will not cover illegal aliens.

When the illegals walk into the ER they can't be refused treatment due to existing federal laws.

I see, you don't want health care reform so everybody has decent coverage, but I am supposed to believe that you do have compassion for the people who use these hospitals? Why am I not convinced?

I had suggested that we put a 5-8 year expiration on it. If it works vote it in for good, if not then it will not get the votes and will expire. Similar to the Bush tax cuts.

Carl---Good idea, but we were told the same thing about the income tax. Remember, it was only suppose to be temporary. Yes, put everyone on it (gov't officials too) for 5 yrs. with a renew option.

I guess that sounds reasonable. It's like leasing before you buy. One question I have is what will be the qualifications and who will be eligible to receive a government insurance card?

As I think about it, whether illegal immigrants, the mentally ill and drug addicts get a card or not, there will be no change in over crowding and funding shortfall, right?

Good idea - No one including Obama is exempt form the plan and it automatically expires.

hey pickled pepper if you include the mentally ill and drug addicts then glenn beck and rush limbaugh will be part of it and I am not paying for those rich elite bastards healthcare.

If we do nothing, insurance premiums will double again over the next 7 years. This time employers are not in a position to pay any of that like they have in the past, so what you see coming out of your paycheck will be more than twice as much. How many times can your premium double before you no longer can afford insurance?

Conservatives ran amuck for the last 8 years; got us involved in 2 wars, doubled the national debt again, let deficits explode, and set us on the path to another great depression. Now they just carp from the sidelines while the adults try to clean up their mess.

When Bush lied to get us into the war in Iraq, was that instead of health care for all Americans? The rest of the industrialized world has national health care; why not us?

The rest of the world got national health care, and all we got is a lousy war in Iraq.

Protect doctors? who is protecting the patient? How much is a human life worth? When I take my car in to get fixed and the guy says he can't fix it he doesn't charge me, why do I have to pay a doctor if he doesn't do what he said he would? What happens when they kill your wife by screwing up a surgery? how much is your wife worth to you? What about the drug manufactures who rush drugs to market without proper testing and people begin to drop like flies? If I kill someone I go to prison, why do you want drug makers and doctors to get off with a slap on the wrist? Do you watch GOP state run news, Fox?

Republicans own the tobacco industry so don't be acting like they give a @!$%# how healthy Americans are. In fact they own the insurance Companies and HMO's so they sell you cigarettes to make you sick then profit off that illness. Republicans want people smoking and sick, they make a profit.

Dark Seducer, if you can't make an intelligent comment without hiding behind partisan politics and blaming Fox news, keep your mouth shut because your contributing to the problem. You just lost all credibility. I'm trying to offer solutions, not attack anyone else unlike yourself. I'm NOT a Republican and I DESPISE Fox News and their ridiculous pundits. Go back and read my comment, really. Then compare it with your response. You're venting and subsequently missing the point. I said you cannot completely lay the blame on doctors, which does leave room for some accountability. And by protecting doctors, I mean protect them from frivolous lawsuits with cause the cost of your care to explode! Doing so will lower the cost of YOUR care and your wife's care, my care, etc. If he's guilty of malpractice then sue on, you deserve appropriate compensation. Doctors are to be the patient advocates. THEY are supposed to protect the patient. I lament if you've been wronged personally. Go out and find yourself a good health care provider, voice your opinion in an intelligent, constructive way or no one is going to care what you think.

what was unintelligent about my comments, simply because they make your argument pointless? you are the problem, you have always been the problem, your greed, bigotry and ignorance is destroying this country and if our founding fathers were alive today they would have hung Bush and Cheney from the highest tree.

I know you hate freedom of speech unless it's the bile spewing form a wingnuts mouth. You people are the evil that will bring about the destruction of the human race.

There are a good portion of the people in this country that don't mind paying taxes as long as they go to make this a better country and a nicer place to live, it seems you republicans hate paying taxes unless it's for a war or used as give aways to haliburton. So you think war is good but helping sick people is bad?

You didn't even READ what Rubin said! Just straight into "wingnut, Bush, Cheney, greed..." More blah, blah, blah... Incredible!

Dark Seducer, thank you for discrediting yourself completely, you saved me and every other educated person out there about 30 seconds. Case closed.

I read everything he said and some I agreed with I was commenting on what I didn't agree with. That is what we are on here for to discuss the differences and come to an agreement but I can't have an intelligent converstaion with most of you because you come on here screaming socialism and racism to destract from the real issue of insurance fraud which is why our health care is so high, they are criminals and should be in prison.

Why didn't you butt in when pickled and the others were saying the moronic things he was saying about Obama. Your side always thinks it's fine to slander people but freak out when I finally get fed up and start calling them what they really are.

MY side? It's all about sides with you isn't it? I'm a Libertarian..more like a third wheel than a side, really. You're issues with Conservatives and Christians are clouding your ability to think and express yourself in a useful manner. Let it go!!!

When libertarians put a tatoo on their forehead, then they can opt out of national health care. The tatoo should read:

"If I am injured in an acident or found sick and dieing, DO NOT HELP ME. I would not help you.:

why do I have to pay a doctor if he doesn't do what he said he would?

I have often wondered this.

Any one know the answer?

You just lost all credibility.

No, it wasn't HIM that just lost credibility.

Thank you for making an intelligent observation and stating it in an educated way. I completely agree with you... and I work in the health care field!

Just wondering....

It concerns me that you have a problem with your rural doctors' lifestyles, i.e. their salaries. It's only natural that their salaries would be disproportionally higher than most rural residents. First of all, they spent many years of their lives getting the education needed to become a doctor. Medicine isn't a career field most people could enter. Med school is rigorous and very difficult. It requires tons of smarts, and even more tenacity. So... it makes me squirm when I hear the jealousy over their salaries. They have earned them. On a side note, I wonder how much the average doctor owes in student loans. Something else to think about, eh? Oh... I am personally not a doctor, or other medical professional, nor do I have anyone in my family who is in the medical field. We are only average in intelligence, obviously not the right stuff, and we know that. It makes it a lot easier for us to respect the efforts made by those who can achieve a degree in the most difficult occupations.

I agree, Alfster. Many candidates view medical school as too long, too hard, too costly...and decide to do something else. Why punish or put limitations on the best and the brightest who didn't share this view. Frankly, I don't want my surgeon to live just like I do. If they did, I would think something was amiss.

Perhaps you misunderstood my first comment. I do think that physicians should earn fair compensation for what they do. They have spent a great deal of time earning degrees and gaining expertise that any one of us might need to call on to heal an ailment or save a life. But surely their compensation plays some sort of role in our cost for healthcare. Maybe it is just my perception.

And in response to your comment about "squirming" Alfster. Not to be nasty, but it makes me "squirm" when people who have worked hard their entire lives are hesitant to take their sick children to the pediatrician because they are worried about their deductible and copays and said pediatrician has two Mercedes parked in front of his 7500 square-foot home located square in the middle of the golf course. I'm not jealous at all. I wouldn't trade my life, home or children for anything in the world, but there has to be a happier medium somewhere in between.

If people in rural areas resent the lifestyle of their doctors, maybe the doctors should not practice in the rural areas. Maybe that's why many rural areas don't have doctors.

I have a different problem with doctors. They often bill for a lot more than insurance will pay, like $150 for an office visit. Then insurance pays them $60, and they call it even. Why, then if someone without insurance comes to their office, or they have insurance but it refuses to pay, the doctor wants the whole $150 from the distressed person rather than the $60 they would find adequate if insurance is paying?

It's only natural that their salaries would be disproportionally higher than most rural residents

Natural? Like doctors are the ONLY ones that have to go to school to learn their trade...

First of all, they spent many years of their lives getting the education needed to become a doctor.

Their cholce, no one (maybe mom and dad) forced them to do this. No need to set up our health in such a nonsustainable way either.

Med school is rigorous and very difficult.

Boo Hoo

So... it makes me squirm when I hear the jealousy over their salaries

Ok so call it jealousy and you can feel better. Don't dare think that it is wrong to make a profit off of someones poor health, that just sounds bad, call it jealousy and then you can feel like you are some kind of noble soul.

I wonder how much the average doctor owes in student loans. Something else to think about, eh?

Do you wonder how much your plumber owes in student loans? If not, why not?

It makes it a lot easier for us to respect the efforts made by those who can achieve a degree in the most difficult occupations.

Really is that what you think you are doing? I think it has more to do with turning your nose brown, but that is just me.

It's funny that you should bring up the practice of physicians charging large fees and then accepting lesser payments from insurance companies. I have often wondered about that when we get our EOB (explanation of benefits) from the insurance company. I believe that practice is one that should be stopped as part of this coming reform. The minimum amount a physician or lab will accept as suitable payment should be the maximum they are allowed to bill. It shouldn't matter if that bill is be paid by the individual or the insurance company.

Dark Seducer,

"S" shut

"T" the

"F" f*%k

"U" up

OMG you have nothing constructive to add!

wow you really don't get how to do that game do you, you need more Beck, your not nasty and vulgar enough.

blah blah blah...either listen and take into account what people have to say, add something constructive, or keep your keyboard shut! Good grief...

either listen and take into account what people have to say, add something constructive, or keep your keyboard shut

Why is it that the people who have the best advice to give, so very seldom follow it?

why would you not insure the mentally ill? and the Cons seem to forget that their two biggest mouth pieces Limbaugh and Beck are drug addicts. Cindy McCain had a drug problem and used John's government supplied naval health care to get cured!!! Cons do drugs too, they are just in the closet about it the same way they are about being gay, hi Lindsay Graham!!! I knew he was gay the first time I saw him!!!

I just figured it out!!!!!!! the cons don't wan't the mentally ill on the plan because then the doctors would cure the disease that makes people cons. I knew it was either a mental illness or a chemical imbalance, no one can be that evil naturally!!!

I agree, how badly could she have been cut. Why not wash the cut and put a band-aid on it and quit giving herself pedicures. People without insurance run to the emergency room for minor colds, coughs, scratches, bruises, etc., Most of these can be taken care of at home with bed rest, fluids, and over the counter drugs. (aspirin, tylenol, etc). But because it's free they rush to emergency rooms. How about people just using good old common sense. Take some responsibility people and quit depending on the government for everything.

Take some responsibility people and quit depending on the government for everything.

UMMMM you were just ragging on people who run to the emergency room for minor things and now suddenly the hospital is the government?

How about people just using good old common sense.

You don't really seem to know much about this, why would you expect anyone else to do any better?

I agree, how badly could she have been cut.

See, you can diagnose this persons need from a description on the internet. Why the heck do we need to pay doctors all that money to do what you have just done for free?????????

You sound like one of those liberals that expect the government to do everything for you, because you are to lazy to do for yourself. Have you ever been in an emergency room and saw some of the people waiting to see the doctor? Most shouldn't even be there, and would have been better to stay home. When I was with the fire department we were required to take everyone to the emergency room even when we could tell there was nothing wrong that an over the counter treatment couldn't cure or relieve the pain. Visit an ER and see for yourself.