That's all well and good, but we aren't mind readers. If there was no formal policy there shouldn't be a formal punishment. There are certain things that should be known (like anything related to patient privacy), but...profanity? Are they serious?

People consider doctors and doctors-to-be almost super-human sometimes....we do make mistakes, you know? We are just like everyone else.

I agree. These are not college students. They have graduated and are not in their teens.

lax morality and sketchy ethical behavior is the result of too many years of political correctness running amok.the issue of accountability and taking responsibility for ones actions contradict the essence of the political correct mantra.

the misguided belief that there are circumstances that absolve one from the impact their behavior that affects others is the basic flaw in the P.C. movement.this type of behavior is only going to escalate as the legions of politically correct youth move into adulthood.unintended consequences in the worst possible way.

Profanity use by adults, young or old? Say it isn't so! Oh, the horror!

Land-grant medical schools should be forced to raise their number of admissions. Private schools can and will likely do what they want.

It's the age old story or getting on your Marx, getting set, stopping.

These students cannot tolerate uncertainty or varied levels of it. Culture of Narcissism. Far too much elitism, good old boy/girl-ism, nepotism, affirmative action, and subjectivity. Too much caste system.

Not near enough objectivity. Not near enough morality.

It's the New Deal or the Monroe Doctrine. One or the other.

What ever happened to confidentiality? A Doctor cannot legally discuss his patients with anyone outside their immediate family members. These students are well aware of that and have violated that.

Furthermore, people should take a good look at this behavior as these are the future doctors that Obama thinks are going to be qualified to handle government run healthcare and this shows just what a farce that would be. These aren't teenagers or kids -these are 20-30 year olds showing just how immature they are.

Sorry, but until there is a written policy, there can be no punishment. And, in a high stress environment (like med school), sometimes you blow off steam. Just make a first year class include a few hours of training in what is correct. That should fix the problem. Obama is going to drive a lot of established doctors out of the practice, we will need all these young people we can get.

No formal policy...........what a cheap copout. Anybody who isn't smart enough to figure out what's ok to post on the internet has absolutely no business being in charge of other people's health.

Period.

If there aren't formal policies, then make some. Are they allowed to use school properties as video props??? I think not.... Discipline should be applied. We are what we sowed.

I really don't need pranksters addressing my health issues. I consider this a serious career. Not a place for adolescence speaking publicly on sensitive issues.

As a retired nurse I am ashamed of these young men. They are taught from the beginning not to say anything a bout a patient in less it is with another Dr. and trying to figure out what is wrong.You do not talk about a patient or their record, that is a big no no and is taught from day one. Some times it gets rough and you have to let off steam someway but not on line and not by treating a body with any disrespect. Everyone knows that is a no no. Even as nurses we were taught these things. Yes we played pranks on new students, like putting their mattresses outside, a lot of things that didn't hurt anyone.Most of the time we were too busy to do anything but study and work the floor. They are taught these things from day one Respect for person, privacy, and honor.Never knew you had to have a policy that said if you do this you will be out. But believe me if you did you would be out the door. Health care is not for pranksters on the Internet and they should have been brought up better. They are not children any longer.They are adults and should act like one.Wonder what their families think of what they are doing and saying.

My point was not that their behaviour was not reprehensible, because it is. My point is that until they make rules expressly PROHIBITING a behaviour, you can't punish them for sheer stupidity. ANY ACT WHICH VIOLATES AN EXISTING RULE IS STILL PUNISHABLE.

As a retired nurse I am ashamed of these young men.

I missed the part where the article said it was just men.

wah!wah! wah! why don't u go cry about it a little more. How about you don't be jealous of those that have worked harder than you and deserve to live THEIR OWN LIVES!....wow, no wonder malpractice claims are overturned....its because crazy people like you are probably behind them.

Do us all a favor and become a conservative congressman and f up the rest of our country's medical system.

shock the Monkey !!!... Bizarre Behavior, they think it's cute..darn attention seekers...

wah!wah! wah! why don't u go cry about it a little more. How about you stop being jealous of those that have worked harder than you and deserve to live THEIR OWN LIVES!....wow, no wonder malpractice claims are overturned....its because crazy people like you are probably behind them.

Do us all a favor and become a conservative congressman and f up the rest of our country's medical system.

Sorry, but until there is a written policy, there can be no punishment.

There is: HIPPA law applies to not only doctors but anyone who works with medical records or in a medical facility.

"s these are the future doctors that Obama thinks are going to be qualified to handle government run healthcare"

Oh. So it's acceptable for these to be the doctors that you go to under your PRIVATE health insurance?

Boy, the odd arguments people come up with...anything to inject silly politics into the conversation.

These kids are med students, they will be in charge of literal life altering decisions, yet cannot be burdened with common sense life choices on their own?

We should hold these young adults to a higher standard. We MUST hold them to a higher standard.

As a lawyer, we have to go through professional responsibility courses and PR is a non-trivial portion of most states bar exams.

Like a lawyer, doctors are also professionals and should be held to such standards the second they decide to enter into a professional educational curriculum.

There are stories across the board, regardless of profession, which hold people accountable for dumb shi t actions. Doctors are at the top of the formal list of who should not be exempt from formal punishment.

Once again, this is common sense. One should not have to be told not to do the actions outlined in this article. It should come natural if not self evident to such learned persons.

Yeah, you probably never had any wild parties in law school or did anything "naughty" did you? There is no excuse for the patient specific info online but the other stuff is kids, (yes they are kids) blowing off well-earned steam. Doesn't mean they won't make great physicians. Most of you have no clue what these students go through no a daily basis.

Please do not misunderstand me. Their behavior was reprehensible. And, if hippa applies to students, nail their asses to the wall on patient confidentiality issues. But just being a little crazy, cut them some slack. I have not seen the videos, so if they involve divulging patient info, I will, of course, eat my words.

tc: PLEASE STOP with the sobbing excuses... There are wild parties, and there are wild parties that cross the line. Here are cases, where they have crossed the line. In most cases, we are dealing with college grads, not you typical 0 IQ kids. No, these young adults know what is right and what is wrong. If they can't figure out that that they have crossed the line, then they have ZERO reason being doctors.

I can careless if they are brilliant, if they are unable to have certain social understanding of order and right vs wrong. No, they will not make a good doctor, if they are ignorant to the fact that they have overstepped the boundry. If they are not willing accept the disciplines that come with the misguided attempts at humor, then FINE. They should not be in medical school.

It is simple, if your mother donated her body to the school for medical study, and someone disicreated her good intentions, and you don't feel A THING??? YOU SHOULD NOT BE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. You can have a doctrine degree, but dealing with patients is not your thing.

Yeah, look what happens to law students that go into politics. No morals, ethics or anything else.

No big deal.

This is the world today, gone are the days of honor.

Politics. Philosophically, everything is politcal.

At The University of Iowa, as freshman, 2 semesters of Rhetoric is required before a student can continue. If you do not have an opinion, then you don't get the grades. Divide and conquer. They condemn wall-walkers. Wall-walkers will likely get C's which get degrees but will more often NOT get anyone into law school (or graduate school - G. Bush got into Harvard Business School with a C average but not everyone had a dad who was Old Money, CIA Director, and later President of the US).

Colleges FORCE the opinion.

This is why the US Supreme Court decisions are 4 to 5 or 5 to 4.

How is this possible? One Constitution. Precedents.

My opinion: Decisions should ALWAYS be 9 to 0 or 0 to 9.

And, THEY have puppet masters pulling strings from BOTH sides.

Tom - At 22 I did certain things I would not do today at 54. This behavior didn't exist when I entered practice but that is not to say we didn't party vigorously. I would like to direct everyone's attention to a recent survey from www.medpagetoday.com/Surveys. This column asks frequent questions of the medical community in the form of surveys. In this case the question was: SHOULD DOCTORS 'FRIEND' PATIENTS? There were three possible answers: the first was "great idea", the second was "OK for some docs, but I'm too busy for it" and the third and most often selected answer was: "Bad idea, information on the site is too public".

Tom, you might be pleased and relieved to happy to know that over 94% of the survey participants would NOT post to 'Facebook' or 'friend a patient'. We ARE too busy! Not only this, but we are more attuned to patient privacy than these students. Those of us established in practice and facing retirement in the near future have NOT come of age on the information superhighway. Our training meant spending hours and even days in the medical libraries of various universities. When we DO use the web for research it's on specific sites like our own specialty organizations. We are acutely aware of patient privacy since whenever we use study participants, a myriad of safeguards must be enacted and even THEN, when all legal mandates are in place - identity blurring data must go into effect., i.e. 'the patient was a 54 year old cauc. male who presented to the office with fever, cough and rash......." you see? NOW - when we huddle in the OR or have office meetings in our practices, of course we discuss our patients with one another and YES - we certainly DO discuss some patients in less than reverent ways. If a patient of mine was well known to the public and found out I had openly discussed his oozing lesions in an open forum like some poster has indicated here, then that 'famous' person certainly wouldn't be my patient for very long.........A patient's medical record is where lots of information gets leaked. Despite every attempt to secure private data (such as someone's husband's penile ulcers secondary to a venereal disease) it continues to happen especially in small communities without EMR - at least with EMR there are SOME safeguards which do not permit everyone in the office to open the more sensitive notes section. When we are at national meetings (once a year which are closed to the general public) we do discuss patients, but again only in broad and general terms and only if their case is one which is of medical/surgical interest. In presentations, all identifying data are obscured for if not - they violate the rules of research and are never accepted for publication. I am sure there are a few blabbermouths who get off on 'naming names'. However, they are typically shunned or simply avoided and labelled as stooges without medical gravitas. And as my generation (fifties, stable and at the peak of our professional status and ability) we know only too well that we either ARE or HAVE BEEN patients, too! The kids coming up? If that have THAT much free time in MEDICAL SCHOOL they will have a stunning revelation during their internship year during which time they'll sleep four hours ever two days. There will be little or ANY time for web surfing and by then, their minds will grasp the reality of what it means to practice pmedicine in the US today. Of course - by then the world of HC will have morphed from 'health reform', so who knows?

The kids coming up? If that have THAT much free time in MEDICAL SCHOOL they will have a stunning revelation during their internship year during which time they'll sleep four hours ever two days.

Ok, what is the point of having interns do those kind of hours?

This behavior is not confined to med students. The medical profession is made up of people who do not need to compete. They contain within their organization their supply and demand. There are doctors who have been in practice for years, highly recommended, who make saps out of selected patients. This is a profession that takes care of people after a traumatic experience occurs and does little to practice advising prevention and wellness. Most doctors have their patients best interests at heart but, unfortunately, not all of them.

Believe me, I know. They are no longer healers. They are arrogant and feel that they are above all of us. This brings to point the fact that they should not advertise this attitude on FB.

They are arrogant and feel that they are above all of us.

What a sweeping generalization.

Please be assured that not all of us are this way.  I have never witnessed this, likely because I do not make a habit of socializing with my work colleagues.  But I am shocked and appalled by what you have witnessed, and would never tolerate it in my company.  Such behavior is beyond unprofessional.

Michelle,

Don't get me wrong. My family doc is a wonderful guy and I would probably tell him anything. He just personally called me this morning to tell me that my potassium levels are elevated, so my blood work needs to be repeated. So obviously he is not among the 14% of physicians who never even look at the results of blood work. And he is not among the 6% who do not notify patients of adverse data from tests.

But medicine has become much like teaching in that people who want to deliver quality service because their specific "calling" is to help or teach people are considered 2nd class professionals. Many people are deterred from both teaching and medicine because they do not perceive they are nurturing professions for caregivers.

The profession needs revitalization. We are already down to 52nd in the world in number of physicians per capita and it is expected to drop further. In teaching, we are 48th in the world of you count all licensed teachers, but 77th if you only count teachers who actually teach.

We need to start valuing the caregivers and marginalizing the money-grabbers. A good friend who is a MD PhD said that the smartest medical students become family pracs or pediatricians because those are the hardest speciaties. The greediest go after orthopedics or surgery because that is where the money is. The dumbwads become Ob/Gyn's because that is the easiest specialty.

The same applies to teaching in that administrators are paid much more highly than classroom teachers, who are often considered to be lacking in ambition.

We need to start redefining what medicine is and how it is administered so that family practice and pediatrics and other difficult specialties are at the top of the pyramid and attract the best candidates and areas requiring much less expertise are relegated to positions further down the scale.

IMHO --- just my opinion.

Physicians that share confidential information (exposing names and information of patients) with peers and/or medical students will sooner or later; hopefully sooner, will stand before a board facing steep fines, possibly have their license revoked, or suspended. I have witnessed physicians' lose their license and practice. Sadly to say, years of education and experience down the drain because he/she do not keep their mouth shut and abide by HIPAA.

I have also experienced this at parties I have attended. Unprofessionalism shouldn't be tolerated and is certainly very different from light-hearted humor - what I am surprised about is how little "peer review" doctors of the MD variety have compared to their engineer/scientist Ph.D. counterparts.

Chris, I am married to a family practitioner (and have numerous friends, not through marriage, who are nurses and doctors), and never -- in any social setting, or in my home -- has patient information been discussed, confidential or otherwise. The only thing I can tell you is my husband does bring home fresh produce from some of his patient's gardens, and also homebaked goodies. I think some of his patients have a crush on him, but that will be our little secret. I do know there have been some "serious" discussions between my husband and some of his patients about tomato plants this year ....

Chris, sounds like you need to get some new dinner buddies. Don't you just hate social "obligations" where you are forced to dine with obnoxious people? All of a sudden ... migraines don't seem like such a bad excuse after all.

Sandra,

Sounds like you have a good one. And I appreciate that. Family pracs tend to be good guys. We have moved from Atlanta to Tuscaloosa, Alabama (there, go figure out what Tier 1 medical school) and have acquired new "dinner buddies."

I am not slandering docs in general, but medical schools have become pretty corrupt institutions and corruption tends to filter down. Teaching medical students is much like teaching any other children. They will follow examples.

This is what a bad one looks like:

http://www.naturalnews.com/025171.html

That is one reason why I would never trust the dean of a medical school to pay even scant attention to HIPAA.

How about those doctors of Anna Nicole Smith's? They took PICTURES of their misconduct with her. I think when you're a celebrity or in the public eye, you have to be most concerned.

But seriously, if my doctor talked about me at a party, I doubt anyone would really care - and probably wouldn't know who I am anyway.

I think that you're expected to maintain a certain professionalism in many professions and that should mean on the internet as well.

When my husband was younger and a sales rep, I used to remind him that when he went to the parties at national conferences that he was still "on the clock" and watch his behavior. Of course now he's more interested in getting a good night's sleep than having a good time.

Seems to me it's logical to that you would try to maintain yourself as a professional if you are one.

People who would post things like that should have jobs that include the words "you want fries with that?".

This is going on everywhere and if you will go to your own state's medical licensing board web site (they all have one) and look at disciplinary actions (they are required by both MediCare and MedicAid to list them) you will be absolutely stunned at how few physicians and other licensed professionals are disciplined.

What will find, if you do a lot of searching, is a large number of medical records clerks who look at celebrities' medical records. Am I the only one who finds it strange that more medical records clerks are disciplined than physicians?

Not strange at all. That's how it works when you let the fox guard the chicken coop.

You are correct it isn't just med students but nurses and doctors already in the profession doing it which I absolutely abhore. If fact I had an incident a couple of weeks ago. I saw a photo on Face Book that came from a hospital. The photo was that of a person dressed as a doctor and holding a drill and there was blood all over a hospital bed. I called the daughter's mother and asked her what was wrong with her daughter posting awful photo's like that. She told me they are all twisted and that they see this behavior as humerous. Later the mother called me back and told me she saw nothing wrong with the photo since it wasn't the real deal. I was apalled.

This sort of thing happens because doctors don't get penalized for bad behavior, even killing people. They get sued, the insurance pays, their insurance costs go up, they pass it on to their customers. Simple deal. The state boards that decide who gets punished are made up of doctors, so it's very rare that any even lose their privilege to practice, much less actually get punished.

It's way past time to stop letting doctors run our health care system. They're bankrupting us as a society and have proven that they can't be trusted with our money or our health.

Exactly. A profession that has no peer review cannot be expected (or left) to police itself.

hey abortions legal whats wrong with messing with a dead person? what can you possibly do to a dead person that causes harm?? somehow this twisted society thinks its someone's "right" to chop up an unborn fetus but gross and unhuman to take pictures of a dead body..... don't worry more "change" is on the way!!!!!!!!

It's a Class A Misdemeanor to abuse a corpse. It's also very sick!!!

Pepster - It was a very long time ago but I will tell you this 'sick' story. A and P professors for decades make it clear in their initial lectures that those people who have bequeathed their bodies to Schools of Medicine have done so with the understanding that education of future physicians guided their decisions. These bequests are highly valued by the Universities and not taken lightly. The preparation of a cadaver for dissection is lengthy process and serious business for the school. So although it was MANY years ago, well before Facebook was even a word, a fellow student of mine thought it would be funny to place a bakery roll around the dessicated, male private part of one of the cadavers. When Professor X entered the lab, the room fell silent. All of a sudden, nothing was funny, NOTHING at all. I can STILL hear Professor X's booming stentorian basso profundo admonishing the class in no uncertain terms: 'anyone in my class caught defacing a cadaver will be immediately disenrolled from my class (knowing that one cannot graduate or move on in the med school curriculum WITHOUT A and P). He went on to add, "ladies and gentlemen - you claim to desire a career in a hallowed profession. Patients will trust you. If you think you need to clown around in here to 'blow off steam' you can leave right now. If you think this will harden you to the pain in medicine. Get out now. I won't train hardened doctors and I don't want hardened doctors treating me." We all felt like whale dung at the bottom of the sea (even though only ONE person did the deed - we were ALL at fault and felt properly admonished. Ours turned out to be memorable in the medical school's history for high achievement and NEVER again did I witness any provocative or rude acts from a single classmate.

just an anecdote from a long ago - still memorable from one who was there who NEVER forgot it. Take home: kids are often ill advised in their actions and don't always make good ones. Strong words from a respected 'elder statesman' can turn bad behavior around in a moments' time.

Pepster - It was a very long time ago but I will tell you this 'sick' story. A and P professors for decades make it clear in their initial lectures that those people who have bequeathed their bodies to Schools of Medicine have done so with the understanding that education of future physicians guided their decisions. These bequests are highly valued by the Universities and not taken lightly. The preparation of a cadaver for dissection is lengthy process and serious business for the school. So although it was MANY years ago, well before Facebook was even a word, a fellow student of mine thought it would be funny to place a bakery roll around the dessicated, male private part of one of the cadavers. When Professor X entered the lab, the room fell silent. All of a sudden, nothing was funny, NOTHING at all. I can STILL hear Professor X's booming stentorian basso profundo admonishing the class in no uncertain terms: 'anyone in my class caught defacing a cadaver will be immediately disenrolled from my class (knowing that one cannot graduate or move on in the med school curriculum WITHOUT AandP). He went on to add, "ladies and gentlemen - you claim to desire a career in a hallowed profession. Patients will trust you. If you think you need to clown around in here to 'blow off steam' you can leave right now. If you think this will harden you to the pain in medicine. Get out now. I won't train hardened doctors and I don't want hardened doctors treating me. We all felt like whale dung at the bottom of the sea (even though only ONE person did the deed - we were ALL at fault and felt properly admonished. Ours turned out to be a memorable class in the medical school's history for high achievement and NEVER again did I witness any provocative or rude acts from a single classmate.

just an anecdote from a long ago -I have NEVER forgotten it. Take home here: kids (and yes 22 yr olds are kids - are often ill advised in their actions and don't always make good choices. By learning important lessen WHILE THEY'RE YOUNG, the message will take and often Strong words from a respected 'elder statesman' can turn bad behavior around in a moments' time.

That's a great story! Definitely a learning experience. My cadaver story happened at a gas station. ..............

I went to the restroom at this gas station and the water in the tank kept running. Since we had several rental houses and I knew how to fix the running water. I took the lid off to fix it and there was an arm in the tank. To this day I can not tell you what I did next, except I did get out of there and told the guy working, he handled it worse than I did! The sheriff deputy wasn't any better. There was no blood in the tank because it was embalmed which at the time I wasn't thinking clearly to figure that out. I'm not sure if they ever found out where it belonged. To this day I will never try to fix a toilet or plumbing again!!!

If a 22 year old or older doesn't have the maturity to understand the meaning of the word confidentiality, they don't belong in medical school. It is one thing to unload or share dark humor wth a fellow student and another to post it on a public forum. I don't agree that all "young adults" do not have the maturity to understand professional behavior. Most have worked too hard to get to that point. If a 25 year old lawyer posted anything about their clients, s/he would be disbarred - and they have the maturity to understand that.

I didn't say "all young adults." In fact I said "Not all...." I agree with what you said on maturity and that "It is one thing to unload or share dark humor wth a fellow student and another to post it on a public forum." Doesn't change the fact that its still happening. The person posting inappropriate stuff on facebook isn't going to just "unload" with a fellow student once they aren't allowed to or get in trouble for posting on facebook. Perhaps they will make their page private, or make a fake name, etc...Either way its still happening. That's the problem.

So you are arguing that unprofessional behavior should get a free pass because its members of your own profession? Way to go on "peer review." There are ways to relieve stress that do not involve unprofessional conduct. If you can't handle the stress in a professional way, then maybe you should pick another profession.

the stress of medical school

Why is medical school so stressful?

Being devoid of insight regarding med school you respond with the silliest of comments. I pity your doctor.

I was asking a question to get people thinking. Didn't work apparently.

Get people thinking? IF this was your intention, which it clearly was not, then yes, you absolutely failed. That is because the 'question' germinated from a supercilious intent, yours. If you are an adult and have read newspapers, books or any number of common treatments of the path to a medical career in this country you would already have the information you claim to seek. Such a remark screams disingenuity. I doubt that silly 8.2 has 'people thinking' anything other than, 'here is a silly person who ought to know better.' By the way - if you are so concerned about the answer, please, post it here for others to read so that they too can be edified by the apparently vast fund of knowledge which you lay claim to.

Wow, didn't mean to make anybody mad. Why is medical school so stressful? I think it's a very valid question.

jan - your school district is smart, I wish ours would hold that line. One of our young teachers got laid off, she is small, can be taken for a student at the high school. She added my daughter, and other students - and she either does not know or does not care that parents could see her facebook "notes" - and replies from her still teaching friends, which included reference to being hungover. Now, my daughter is a senior, and we are no prudes, but come on, where is the decorum of a professional?? This young teacher is back subbing I heard, and I like her or probably would have made a fuss - but I'll suggest she protect herself when I see her. At the middle school level, a brother of one of our teachers, also a teacher, got "outed" by a MySpace flap - just maybe it's a bad idea to air one's love life online?

I do not "tell all" (like from my youth), as my clinic provider keeps a thick chart in a central location, which travels to each and every doctor within the "clinic" set-up that I might see, for all to look at that might care to. When the charts get computerized, the ultimate portability, every embarrassing thing will go along as well. My father just retired, but he had the access password to the county set-up of his hospital's record system by patient, at his whim - but he didn't use it, as was supposed to be the plan. His wife and office manager had the password, and while they did not use it for just any reason - they well could have. I guess you could say, do NOT tick off your health provider.

Eric, I'm sorry, but that's baloney. Anybody too stupid to understand what's appropriate to post on the internet is too stupid to be in charge of other people's health.

You got that right.

I totally agree that the abuses on Facebook, by these medical students, should not be tolerated. In all reality, people that will become doctors are held to a higher standard, because of the immense responsibility for taking care of others. In addition, as a physician, you are a role model for other students in training, an educator for your patients. Your patients are vulnerable, and you have to earn and maintain their trust. Most physicians do not go into medicine for the money - most truly have empathy for others and want to help people lead better lives. These medical students ruin others' respect for a difficult profession.

Son of Liberty and Old Broad - I am a physician and I am proud of all the hard work I have put into becoming a physician. I put my patients first - and I have the respect of my patients because they know I truly care what happens to them. But I am a wife, and a mother too. I DO NOT drive a Beemer. I drive a 10 year-old minivan. I am struggling with the over $100,000 debt that I have. When my child was ill and I had to stay home over the course of a year, I still had to pay my malpractice each month. As a medical student and resident, you are constantly studying or taking care of patients, and rarely sleeping. You sacrifice and put off things like having a family, because you are serving others. You work at county hospitals and clinics, and help people that otherwise wouldn't get care.

PLEASE HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE REAL DOCTORS THAT LOVE WHAT THEY DO BUT ARE HUMAN BEINGS TOO!!!!

I'd suggest that the hours that interns are subjected to in no way is conducive to good training and is in fact a sham to justify inflated fees. I'd also suggest that given the rate that medicine is progressing, future doctors should probably spend a few less years training, since it's a business where training never ends, and some of what they learned in training is outdated by the time they finish.

I have great respect for those who are in the business to help people, but in 55 years have only met 2.

Come be my doctor, please.

I have seen HIPAA "prosecution" in action. I recently reported to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alabama that while I was on the telphone with them and on hold I could hear a physician's office conversing with a pharmacy tech about a patient's medication that a physician had prescribed in error. I jotted down the patient's name and the prescription number and the prescribing physician's name. Blue Cross responded the next day talleing me that they had deleted the tape of the conversation and that therefore no action would be taken on my complaint and they they would deny any future inquiries about my having overheard confidential patient information.

Chris,

Please send the info about your situation to the website I've posted. It's likely that both the Doctor's office and the insurance company are too relaxed on this subject and both need to be reported.

Since the doctors are the ones policing the doctors, it would be pretty naive to expect anything to happen.

Americanguy,

I appreciate your information. But I cannot report this particular incident. The reason is this: my wife (in whose name the insurance policy is listed) works for a state university. That makes her a state employee. The state self-insures, letting BCBSAL off the hook since they are only the administrator and not functioning under the aegis of the state insurance commission. State and Federal government agencies are exempt from HIPAA.

I had thought about making a stink about it, but who do I blame? It was a technical flaw in their phone system. The physician's office had no way of knowing that the BCBSAL telephone system was flawed. Probably the people on the phone system at BCBSAL knew something was amiss because I am sure that they had heard telephone conversation "leakage" before, but what responsibility did they actually have?

The other issue that HIPAA lets fall through the crack is that when you sign the privacy statement to become a physician's patient, you sign that your medical records are the sole property of the physician and they he may do what needs to be done with them unless you specifically opt out. Discussing a prescription with an insurance company is well within what most people have agreed to.

Like I say, I thought about making a stink, but decided against it. I was just trying to be helpful to BCBCAL and was rudely rebuffed. So I won't try to be helpful again.

"Regardless of profession, people should still be able to express themselves."

Yes, but they have to follow the law. Med students are covered in HIPAA guidelines and clearly broke the law.

Yes, people should be able to express themselves. But not at the expense of others; especially people who TRUST that their medical information and contact with their physicians remains CONFIDENTIAL. And disrespect for the dead? I'm sorry. While I agree with you that Dr.s are people like you and I, there are certain expectations put upon them that are different than what's put upon non-medical professionals.

I agree as long as they are not crossing HIPPA leave them alone.....

Damu Dame - by posting details of a particular patient's condition or pictures, even of a cadaver, they are violating the privacy section of HIPAA. And i'ts HIPAA, not HIPPA.

I respect your opinion however, can we really blame television?? I grew up in the 60's and 70's. We all have grown up with violence even disney movies with poison apples, wicked withches, the road reunner and the coyote, and I certainly did not believe it had any impact. Yes, we are responsible for our own behavior but it does not begin with television, but a home. Medical students are to smart for that kind of behavior and may not be going into medicine for the right reasons. It is character and what we believe. It is human behavior for teens to do stupid things however, we know right from wrong

You bring up great points that psychology and sociology has been concerned about for some time.

So the answer to crappy behavior is to allow more of it? How much sense does that make?

I think you misunderstood my point. Bottom line is we know the difference between right and wrong and base our decisions on that. So, is it peer pressure to fit in or does generation Y feel that morals and values are less imporant than fitting in?

I understand your point, mine is that there's only one way to change that, by punishing bad behavior instead of analyzing it.

There are no forms that students must sign, that's patently false. The things that are mentioned in the article (ie naming patients, drug paraphernalia, etc) are illegal and those students should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But as for being role models etc, that's not fair and that's not what a person signs up for when they become a physician. Physicians are on the frontlines of human misery and tragedy, just like police and firefighters. As a result, humor tends to become "dark" and "twisted." It's easy to point fingers when you're not in the field, but when you've had to diagnose toddlers with cancer or watched young men and women in their 30s and 40s die from cancer, you become more understanding of dark humor.

Medstudent, I hear what you're saying, but since the AMA insists that doctors should continue to run our health care system, which they've obviously done an abysmal job of, one might think it would behoove them to at least act like they have a small amount of class.

Wisdom, you state that "these students wouldn't make the type of health care professional most people would care to have." How do we know what kind of person your doctor is? I would think that at the very least they would respect human life. Why in the world would you become a doctor if you did not respect human life? Surely they wouldn't become a doctor just for money and prestige.

Surely they wouldn't become a doctor just for money and prestige.

I'd agree, Santa and the Tooth Fairy told me so.

What people do not seem to realize about Facebook are two very real and very serious facts:

1) Nothing can ever be deleted from Facebook due to its design. Anything that you put there is there forever, even if you cannot see it.

2) Nothing on Facebook is private. You can download software that can access any information or pictures on Facebook that are associated with a user. Many Human Resources software systems contain the software necessary to delve into Facebook, MySpace, Youtube and other social networking sites as a part of pre-hiring "research."

If you don't want your mother or a future employer to see it, don't post it anywhere.

In case anyone cares that works with kids, a parent can install a sneaky little software that monitors all the student is doing, passwords, sites visited, snapshots of frames viewed online, online typed conversations... cheap. I learned of this from other parents, so there are others "watching". This also includes, possibly, employers - who are permitted to monitor their equipment - and whoever might be using it.

Surely, medical school students don't pass medical school if they fail tests, do they? (OK, I'm hearing Leslie Nielsen saying, "Don't call me Shirley", LOL). How could they pass tests if they just goof off through med school?

Great post, Jim!

Jim, great post and could not have been said any better however, as a mother of 3, it does have its challenges raising children in todays world. It is up to parents to learn how to raise children of todays world because the respect is different although, the values and morals are the same. Yes, teaching our children responsibility at an early age is where it needs to begin. As a non traditional grad student in public health and in the process of applying to medical school brings up the point when I went to a medical school for a tour and we were taken to the Anatomy lab although only allowed at the door way, students were working on the cadavers and let me tell you that they were disprespectful to them. I was very shocked and concerned because the instructor did nothing. Is there not ethics in labs or consequences by the schools? Maybe if there was, these young students would think twice.

Jim, I'd agree with you completely. I find it ironic that Dr. Spock was the the leader in this style of parenting, eh?

I think that this comment is extremely unfair. I'm a second year med student, and part of my education (and just how I've been brought up) is to not generalize large groups, particularly in derogatory ways. I would never sum up all of your generation based on stereotypes, why should you do it to me? A majority of my classmates are impressive, mature, caring people who genuinely want to help people. We are involved in any number of extra activities including volunteering at free clinics, raising money for charities, and next month some of my classmates are speaking in front of the state legislature about a health related matter that is important to them. Yes, there are exceptions (in every class), but they are exactly that: exceptions.

As for the entire thread - the behavior reported about is done by a minority of people. I am on facebook and have never seen any confidential information posted by classmates. Most status updates about school involve the stress people are going through, excitement over something going on, or nerves about tests (which makes me feel better to know I'm not in it alone). Yes, sometimes we need to blow off steam, considering we spent most of our time studying. As long as we do so in a responsible way and never betray the ethics of our profession, what's wrong with that? I have personally never seen a classmate violate HIPPA, disrespect a cadaver (in fact, compared to what I've heard about med school 50 years ago, I believe we treat our cadavers with far more respect than past students), and I believe that most of my classmates would step in and say something if they believed something inappropriate was being done.

Med2, in regard to Generation Y, you are the exception. If you read about the generalities of Generation Y, you are the Era of the Rise in Communications. Obviously, there are going to be boundaries and parameters that need to be established because there is always going to be that group of misfits who have no regard to the privacy or lack respect for others.

Thanks to you, and your parents, you seem to have grown into a fine, responsible person. When I was growing up, well-known child psychologists like Dr. Spock started to emerge. "You will hurt your children's self-esteem if you call them a loser, all children have to be winners, never losers .... blah ... blah ... blah." So, yes, in general terms, there is a whole generation behind me who have not learned ownership and responsibility for their actions.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm on the very tail end of the Baby Boomers, and we're called greedy. However, I'm one of the most non-materialistic people in the world. It's just a generalization for "most or alot" in that particular group.

You can't take it personally.

Good luck in Med School! We're going to need good, caring doctors like you!

Since doctors expect us to trust them completely with our health, and a giant chunk of this country's money, I'd suggest that they need to get their s&*t together and at least pretend to be responsible people.

What is an irsh anyway? I agree that there are plenty of dumb comments and yours is the grand champion. When we decide to actually hold people accountable for their behavior the country may move in the right direction - in the meantime, just remember these are the idiots you will be depending on for your medical care in a few years. They won't morph into good behavior unless they are expected to live up to it now.