The only thing wrong with your post is that they have always known the mercury IS bad and has always been bad.

It comes down to them finally admitting they denied it to promote every other vaccine and that they were guaranteed to make money.

So no matter the denial of problems they keep rejecting, there are people who know the truth reguardless their propaganda.

I agree with Misty 100%

Jeezus. Nobody is bullying or threatening you in the slightest!!!! Where the hell do you get this crap? You fully well know you have the right and freedom to not get it and there is no one that is saying anything different. Where is the supposed bullying and threats coming from? Talk about fear mongering, your implications that there is somebody forcing you down and shooting you and your family up with the vaccine is laughable!!!!!!!! Enjoy the misery of this flu this winter.

If you are so worried about too much mercury--don't eat certain fish!! Give me a break!! If you don't want to get the vaccine, don't get it. No one is trying to force anyone into getting vaccinated. BUT--don't want to hear any of you whining if you or someone in your family gets the flu or the swine flu and gets one of the life threatening secondary infections that is possible to get--like pneumonia. If you don't want it--don't get it. It's just really sad that people are so worried about vaccines--not just the flu vaccines but the other ones. Diseases like pertussis were virtually wiped out until some people started not vaccinating their kids. The health department in my area is boostering the Dtap vaccine to some of the older kids because of outbreaks of whooping cough. Very sad.

Missy,

Maybe one of the side effects is death! Hope the guinea pig doesn't die from your lack of action.

I still haven't seen anyone refute NU's post 1.4 in the slightest. I've seen references to the current administration, to profiteering, to some belief that multiple vaccines will kick off autism (a belief bastardized from invalidated research that tried to link an MMR vaccine to brain damage caused by meningitis), but I haven't seen any arguments against the information in 1.4. I feel sorry for any family that has had a child suffer from a severe reaction or even death as stated in 1.13 but it seems unwise to decide against all vaccinations based on the statistical equivalent of a lightning strike. This is a cold thing to say, but medical decisions should not be driven by emotions, no matter how raw and powerful. Everything we do in this world has some possibility of disaster. Flying on a plane, walking across the street, our last president almost choked to death on a pretzel. Getting a vaccine has far more benefits to the patients and the community than any of these other things.

To those who would assert that vacinated people are in no danger from unvaccinated people may be technically true in the short term, but the more unvaccinated people there are, the larger the population available for a virus live in, the more oppertunity that virus has to diversify and mutate. That is also part of herd immunity--the fact that if you keep the vulnerable population low, you don't allow the virus that 95% of the herd is immune to, time to change into something none of the herd is immune to.

I would add that frankly speaking, I believe the odds that symptoms an unvaccinated child will experience from H1N1 will be severe or even life threatening are going to be far higher than the odds that the vaccine itself will give them severe or life threatening. That is my unqualified opinion though perhaps NU can weigh in on this as well.

1 Opinion, you are correct. It's all about risk and benefit. We have some facts, but some unknowns, so we have to speculate sometimes, and base our speculations on our knowledge and experience. Herd immunity is a pretty important issue, and what you said about mutations is correct. That said, I'll agree with whatever decision patients make, so long as I know they have the facts. I won't lose sleep over it (unless the fatality rate turns out to be higher than currently estimated).

One slight correction to what you said: "vaccinated people are in no danger from unvaccinated people may be technically true in the short term." Remember, not everyone who gets vaccinated develops immunity. Herd immunity helps protect these people, as well as unvaccinated people.

Misty, Misty...Thanks for making Ken from Illinois point. Thiomersal (not Thermosil) is not mercury as you seem to think but a mercurial compound. And, it didn't take "how long to realize it was dangerous?" as it was already known to be dangerous. However, contrary to popular, and erroneous, belief it has never been shown to be dangerous in the minute amounts used in vaccines. In fact it's use in vaccines actually has prevented deaths due to the lack of the presence of a preservative. The flu vaccine, seasonal or H1N1, does not take years to study because it's already been studied and proven effective and safe.

Misty B - short for misty Brain? Pedro is being too kind and rational.

The swine flu vaccine is made just the same way any other flu vaccine is made...... Just the same way. EVERY study ever done has eliminated the Thimerisol / autism connection. Spreading junk science / ignorance around does not do anybody any good.

Frankly, I think those people who do NOT want vaccinations should not get them. BUT, if they get sick, they get no medical help from hospitals either. This would triage most of the idiots right out of the system , over time, so the rest of us could live healthy lives free of spurious infections. Better yet, go live in Afghanistan or someplace that is fundamentalist controlled- they are already in the 17th century.

If you think vaccines are too risky, I suggest you not drive your car, ride a bike, use the shower, eat ice cream, hamburger, whatever, as those activities are THOUSANDS of times mnore risky than getting a shot.

Stay home and watch Oprah, but realize that she too will be telling you go get vaccinated. Your kids should be taken away from you- you are obviously too stupid to raise them responsibly.

The ignorance in this country is astounding. Peoples lives and well being - MY kids well being- is constantly being threatened by stupidity , all in the name of "safety" . This has to stop.

Remember, not everyone who gets vaccinated develops immunity. Herd immunity helps protect these people, as well as unvaccinated people.

NU,

Tell those people to take 2 shots then. Hell, tell them to take 10,000. Mr. Vaccine himself, Dr. Paul Offit, says we can. Apparently some in charge think that it won't hurt. LOL.

It is truly scary how much the anti-education, anti-science, anti-medicine Luddite movement has taken hold in this country. We are behind Latvia and Kazakhstan in the percentage of our people who graduate from college, and even further down in the percentage of science and math graduates. Thanks to recent anti-science policies, we are a solid last place in the industrialized world in particle physics, one of the most difficult and basic forms of science that is critical to future discoveries in technology.

We are 52nd in the number of physicians per citizen. We are 31st in health care and we are 40th in infant mortality. But we are a solid number one in the world in medical malpractice which is the 5th leading cause of death in this country (it's not even in the top ten in any other country in the world.)

The religious right stirs up a lot of resentment against education, science and medicine with its violent opposition to biology, medical research, evolution theory, and anything else that they feel does not directly substantiate their narrow view. The South has become an anti-education fortress, one supposes because they could not keep blacks from being educated, they have turned against all education as somehow corrupted. The entire public education system is under attack with grotesquely misplaced emphasis on home schooling and "Christian academies" that insure that students are not able to be accepted into traditional colleges and universities. The current debate on health care has aggravated a great distrust of medicine in this country. That a third of parents do not trust the flu vaccines is absurd, but indicative. They are willing to sacrifice their children to a Luddite fear of the unknown whipped up by forces seeking political advantage.

Education, science, and medicine require rational and critical thinking. In an irrational atmosphere where people like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin determine public opinion, the progress of this country is undere a severe attack.

Some people say that we should abandon the irrational to their own devices. If they are so stupid that they don't get vaccinations they they deserve to watch their children sicken and possibly die. Others say that if people cannot accept science taught in public schools and universities that they should keep their children home or send them to schools where these things are not taught. They act as if this is some sort of Darwinian punishment to be meted out to the irrational. But I stop and think ---- these are children --- do children deserve to be punished by being condemned to a lifetime of Luddite ignorance?

Are we a Mensa member?

While our country is founded on "All Men are Created Equal" - It really is not so; everyone is different with different risks and unequal chances in nature.

If America is about freedom, why are there helmet & seatbelt laws? Sometimes the professionals can make your decisions for you, even if you disagree - Consider Typhoid Mary?

Every study that the FDA and the American Dental Association has published on dental amalgam (mercury fillings) has eliminated the connection of myriads of people claiming health issues that seemingly have improved or gone away entirely once the fillings are replaced. Could you imagine what financial harm would come to the ADA if they ever admitted the fillings they have approved in millions of Americans are toxic?

Every study that the FDA has published on MSG (monosodium glutamate a.k.a. free glutamic acid) and aspartame has eliminated the connection of over 25% of the population (including myself) claiming health issues that seemingly have improved or gone away entirely once they are completely removed from the diet, and return when these are accidentally ingested. There are literally billions of pounds as well as billions of dollars of these additives going into our food, drinks, pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, and vaccines.

* For anyone else that is reading this MSG is also in various vaccines. The glutamic acid in vaccines are often described as "stabilizers", i.e., ingredients to keep the virus alive. They are simply a hidden source of processed free glutamic acid (MSG). MSG is a neurotoxin and an endocrine disruptor as well as an excitotoxin. This additive has been reported to cause behavioral problems in children, as well as attention deficit disorder. Considering it destroys brain cells and they put this additive in practically everything children ingest including infant formula, perhaps someone should look at this as a possible link to the rise in autism.*

Every study that the FDA and the American Chemistry Council has published on the effects of petrochemicals they approve for daily use (pesticides, fertilizers, personal care products, cleaning products, food, etc.) has eliminated the connection of the rising number of people (including myself) claiming health issues from exposure that have seemingly improved or gone away entirely once they are completely removed from exposure, and return when they are reintroduced to exposure. Think about the amount you pay for things you use in your daily life that contain chemicals, these add up to more money than you can imagine when you multiply that by the total population.

Are you seeing a pattern here? If you do a little research (as I have) you will find that the same companies that make the chemicals that make us sick are conveniently enough the exact same companies that produce the pharmaceuticals that make us feel better. The people that work for these companies go and work for the FDA long enough to get things approved and then they go back to work for their chemical companies to reap the financial benefits. There is a lot of money involved here. No one in these companies care what they are doing to our health because they are getting even more money when we are ill.

Seems like it should be considered a conflict of public interest and not permitted, however it goes on all the time at all government levels. So...do you still want to trust the government with you and your childrens' health?

It's your choice, but personally I would rather trust my immune system...which by the way has been compromised (as has yours) by all the chemicals we are all subjected to on a daily basis thanks to the studies that the FDA and the American Chemistry Council has published on the effects of petrochemicals they approve for daily use....but at least I have the sense to research these chemicals, come to my own conclusions, and remove as many as possible from my daily life in the hopes of improving that.

...by the way Chris-537131...I have a background in both biological and physical science...I just have come to the conclusion that money outweighs legitimate scientific research in this country.

Chris-537131:

Medical malpractice is not the 5th leading cause of death in this country. It's not even the 5th leading cause of accidental death. But the U.S. leads the world in medical malpractice SUITS. We also lead the world in number of lawyers per capita.

http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_in_US.html

http://www.notsoboringlife.com/ramblings/top-10-causes-of-accidental-death/

In my 16 years on clinical rotations, residency, and in practice, I have never been personally involved in a case or heard of a case where a patient died or had a serious complication of malpractice. The author Chris might refer to an actual study that claimed 100,000 people die in hospitals every year as the result of medical malpractice - I highly doubt the accuracy of this claim, and how such data could even be gathered.

I paid $32,000 for malpractice coverage as a family practitioner last year, saw 4,000 patients, for an average of $8 per patient visit. I've never been sued, yet. My partner has been the victim of at least 2 frivolous lawsuits, one of them after the patient's life was saved (by self-induced illness I might add). I know from the case nothing wrong was done. I know from personal experience that many expensive medical tests (esp. CT scans and MRI's, heart tests) are ordered by docs out of fear of being sued rather than medical necessity.

I disagree with Chris that malpractice "is one significant reason why our health care system is #37 in the world." Americans do not take care of themselves. Smoking, obesity, alcohol and drug abuse are prevalent. Patients don't follow my instructions on preventive health care. Lack of insurance coverage is a huge problem too. But even people in lower socioeconomic classes who qualify for Medicaid have poor outcomes due to being unable or unwilling to care for themselves. Our educational system is similarly ranked and we also spend more on education per student than any other country. If patients and students took more responsibility for their lives, the stats would improve. We spend the most on health too. Advances in technology and medical breakthroughs are a double-edged sword: fascinating scientifically but incredibly expensive. We spend a fortune on end-of-life care. If a family wants to "do everything" for grandma on life support (despite no chance for making it out of the hospital with any meaningful quality of life), we docs have little recourse, as we watch the ICU bill exceed $100-200K.

I feel for any patient who is hurt by errors made by the medical system. We are only human. I've been on committees in the hospital where we constantly try to upgrade safety measures. I check and double-check my work to reduce the chance of mistakes. My hospital uses surgical checklists, and it has been standard of care for years. The constant threat of malpractice does not improve safety. It wastes money. It wastes our time documenting in the medical record.

Caps on noneconomic damages don't work because they are often ruled unconstitutional, and do not dissuade lawyers from filing lawsuits anyway. Many frivolous suits are filed because lawyers figure they will often get a settlement rather than having the case fought out in court. And why do lawyers get their 33% contingency fees at the expense of patients and doctors? Doctors have jobs to do, and our tort system interferes with that job.

I'm sorry Chris feels the way he does. But he does not further a solution to improve the health system in this country either in terms of outcomes or safety. Tort reform is only a component of reducing medical costs. Much more reform must be done, esp. reducing the uninsured and underinsured, covering preexisting conditions, and focusing on preventive health care (short term costs more, long term saves money [but only if you account for longer life and productivity and more taxes paid]).

Typical endoctrinated response.

Heil Hitler, I mean heil vaccine propaganda and proponants. You are all SOOOOO smart.

Hey , Dave in NM, I'm one right wing Glenn Beck viewer who has more education than you will ever hope to complete, and I too plan to get the immunization as soon as it is available. So, maybe your "experience'" is faulty.

Dave in NM:

Uneducated? Right-wing? Glenn Beck? You are sooo off base it's laughable. Try listening to Glenn Beck, Rush, Hannity etc. sometime and you might learn something. Also go to a few Tea Party's and see more educated people in one area at one time. You are so misled by your leaders that I feel sorry for you. This is just about the flu shot not polio! Take the shot, I really don't care. It's just not for me nor is any flu shot of any kind. If I get the flu, I just deal with it. By the way, Fox News is number #1!

FOX is foreign owned!!

HI Dave in N M. I am Gary from Santa fe and have to agree with you 100%.I see that spider thinks a 6th grade education is all you will need to understand the complexaties of this flu bug or of politics that the right wing think iis intelligence. people who follow right wing unpatrotic anti american leaders will always thing haveing a 6 grade education is the same as having a masters. funny bunch that kool aid drinking right wing idiots are

sorry about the misspelling just phat fingers and not double checking my spelling lol

spider.... when YOU guess someone else's, education level...... well...... don't you look the tool.................

Gary z: You and Dave really need to get out more and see how real working class people with educations, such as medical doctors, business owners etc. We are what is GOOD in this country, not the low life politicians. Try listening to both sides of a story and go to a Tea Party before you shoot off at the mouth. You only show how ignorant you are with the same line like, anti-american, 6th grade education and so on. By the way, the Kool Aid is Obama lovers flavor.

Aaaaand ... right on cue, the righties pop right out of the woodwork: all insults, assumptions and lies, no facts. It's a good thing - I don't have time to respond to substance. Mindless fluff, I can ignore.

Nice to meet you, Gary. Good to see another thinking New Mexican.

Dave in NM-

Here's another one!!

Hey Dave,

Who brought up the insults? Looks like you're the mindless fluff that I try real hard to ignore.

Ummm...sorry, but yeah, many crunchy granola types prefer delayed or skipped vaccination schedules. I live up here with a bunch of them. The article was quite accurate about this being one consituency that is generally against vaccinations.

We are not that crunchy, but our kid will be getting delayed vaccinations. I do not let my vet give my dogs more than one vaccine shot at one time, so I have no intention of letting our Peds doc give our kid multiple vaccinations on a single day. He will generally get most shots but he will get them over a 5 year period not on the 2 year AAP recommended schedule.

No one in this family has any respiratory illnesses (comorbidities), we are not immunocompromised, and we are likely to survive any bout with a virus (600 out of 350 million are pretty good odds; how's your math?). Despite the fact that I work in a hospital (generally not in clinical areas) and DS goes to daycare, I turned down both shots for both of us so that those more at risk could have the opportunity to be protected. In all my 21 years in healthcare, I have never had a flu shot and only had the flu once in that time (without any pneumonia complication).

Please be aware that the CDC has announced that the vast majority of those who died from H1N1 had a secondary pneumonia infection so getting the pneumovax shot is also recommended (if you are really that worried about dying).

FWIW: I watch Chris Matthews, have a BA from a top-ranked university, make over $100k/yr, am a conservative democrat, have no desire to home school, and abhor Glenn Beck (though if I had his talent [for hyperbole], I'd probably be milking it for all it was worth too) and organized religion, and still I have no desire to be a guinea pig for this vaccine. Just in case anyone was counting...:-)

FOX NEWS:

Fair and balanced.

CNN is getting better than it's original format for the last many years.

Dave,

I can always count on you. You have an uncanny ability to put into words of what I'm thinking.

Stupidity transcends all races, religions and ideologies, (WOW, writing this actually makes me feel better).

My entire family will get the H1N1 shot, maybe even the dog.

yvonnemari - As you may know, the pneumonia vaccine is indicated for only a certain segment of the population, and only protects against Streptococcus pneumoniae strains of bacteria. Pneumonias secondary to influenza can be caused by multiple different species of bacteria, so the pneumonia vaccine would only protect against some of the secondary pneumonias. For those people who decide to get the seasonal and swine flu shots, that will help them a lot more than just getting a pneumonia shot. For those patients outside the target groups for Pneumovax, I would not recommend it, but I wouldn't withhold it either from someone who specifically requested it and insisted on it.

I'm moderate right, and believe politics should have nothing to do with what I tell my patients. :)

I'm moderate right, and believe politics should have nothing to do with what I tell my patients. :)

You'll get no argument from me on that.

I never said they should only get the pneumovax. That isn't what the CDC suggested. It was to get the pneumovax in addition to the H1N1. I was just saying that if you are really worried about dying from swine flu consider that most have actually died from complications of pneumonia and if you think that a vaccine will protect you from death, perhaps you should consider the pneumovax.

I know it isn't given to everyone generally, I think though you'll find in this climate of hysteria, an uptick in the dispensing of this vax.

yvonnemari - Your comment is noted. I'd say more people on this blog are anti- vaccine than wanting more vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm58e0929a1.htm - 10 of 22 cases of secondary pneumonia in this study were S. pneumo.

Sorry again, I am a left wing, commie, pinko faggot with a much higher than average IQ who has done alot of reading, from all sides of the issue and drawn my own granola crunching conclusion, (after watching my mom die from an autoimmune disorder), that vaccines should be given/taken with thought and care.

I don't believe for 1 second that a normal, healthy person needs to get a shot for every possible illness...a healthy person, with a healthy immune system can bedrest for a few days while their immune system does what it is made to do and fights it off.

Yes there are the religious nuts, and anti-govt. wackos, but there are many, educated, well read, thinking people, who do the research for themselves, and draw their own conclusions.....

BTW....and the amount of Thimerosol in a vaccine is cumulative.....so the more shots you give your tiny person, the more the Mercury accumulates....and the aluminum....and...and...and...

and what about squalene, is that not linked to Gulf War syndrome? and autoimmune disorders?....(of course not, just get the shot, that'll be $24 dollars please, have a nice day)

Agree completely. Take a flu shot or don't, it is your body and people should be able to make their own decisions regarding what they choose to accept as medical interventions and preventative interventions regarding their own health. But I can see where some parents would be wary of their children receiving the flu vaccine. There are many, many published documented reports regarding the warnings of Thimerosol used in the multi dose vials of the vaccine. This is an inorganic mercury compound metabolized into the human body that is both an anticeptic and antifungal agent. It prevents bacterial contamination in multi dose vials of vaccines. There has been an established link to Autism from this compound, and that is why the CDC finally in 2002 issued warnings to Pediatricians to spread out childhood innoculations over a period of time, as more vaccines for childhood diseases where developed, suddenly children where receiving a host of multiple vaccinations at one time and there are many studies to indicate a relationship with this practice in conjunction with the high rate of Autism in our country today. That is why informed and educated parents are questioning if they should have their children receive this vaccine as well. The nasal inhalation does not have thimerosol in it because it is a single dose system, but all multi dose vials of all vaccines do. I really do not know if I had small children today if I would get them vaccinated. They are grown men and can make that decision on their own. But, I for one and healthy, active, have no respiratory illnesses, don't smoke and run marathons at 52, I will pass on this flu shot as I do every year. I have not had the influenza in perhaps 20 years...I'll wash my hands frequently and stay away from people who are obviously ill and take my chances.

LindaAllen - I'm running Chicago on Sunday.

See my post 1.4. There has been no thimerosal in routine childhood vaccinations since 2001 except in some multi-dose vials of flu shots.

I'll get the shot, not because I'm afraid, but because I can't afford to be sick for a week.

NU Wildcat Fan

Is that the marathon somewhere around Navy Pier? My cousin is running in the B of A marathon this weekend. Have a great run.

I think it's probably a good idea for healthcare workers, teachers, and public service personnel to get an annual flu shot. I got one once and got very ill, the doctor told me it was because I am allergic to eggs and should not have gotten one, but it sounded like a good idea at the time. I was almost hospitalized with a rash and swelling in my face and neck, so I have never gotten another one. And luckily, have not had the flu, but I stay pretty aggressive with hand washing and watching what I touch and where I put my hands anyway.

NU Wildcat Fan: thimerasol is in the injection of the flu vaccine (as the article accurately stated).

The nasal spray, which does not have thimerasol, is only indicated for those age 2 and older.

Therefore, any child between 6 months (the flu shot is contraindicated for anyone under 6 months) and 2 yrs will require an injection.

I can certainly understand why someone won't want to give mercury to a 6 month old child whatever the amount.

I know this because our hospital just received its first shipment of swine flu vaccines and we spent part of the day today updating our pharmacy formulary with the information provided by the manufacturer so that these meds could be dispensed.

HTH clarify things.

Graybeard:

No one can make anyone do anything, even jump off a Narrow Bridge.

One has to use their own judgement when taking medication or any activity that might harm them.

It is up to you, our population, as an individual to be your own Advocate today. Ask questions when certain procedures are done for your health. It could mean the choice between life and death in some cases. This is a fairly new approach by Americans to be treated for an illness. Doctors will write out prescriptions like they are home grown tomatoes. Watch out, do your own research, then decide yourself if it will be of benefit to your treatment.

Challenge your doctors, if it what he says doesn't seem not right. Get consultations with other doctors, if you are feeling any kind of doubt. Especially cancer.

LindaAllen you best site the research you believe indicates thimerosol and multiple vaccines somehow generate autism. Especially if it is an "established link" as I assume that means you have something more than simple manipulation of statistical data. I assume you have some medical information on how exactly the thimerosol or multiple vaccinations cause autism. I assume a lot, I hope you can ratify my assumptions.

Linda - Yes, I'm running in the Bank of America Chicago Marathon. The closest we get to Navy Pier is during the first mile when we are 0.5 miles west of Navy Pier. Chicagomarathon.com has a nice map. The weather may be in the 40's and sunny - perfect.

1 opinion

You know the old saying about "what making assumptions makes you". These are not assumptions. There is a multitude of literature on Autism out there, the most controversial study on MMR Vaccines and the increase in Autism was researched by the New England Journal of Medicine on a population based study in November 2002 that led CDC warnings and manufacturer Black Box warnings for the MMR vaccination. There are many theories on Autism and the MMR vaccinations and have been for years. Many advocate groups for Autism have one opinion based upon studies, many physicians believe the research may be credible enough that they space the injections out now instead of injecting tiny children all at once. I am simply stating that with the amount of information pro and con for children being vaccinated, parents need to be informed. I have not advocated for or against any child being vaccinated or receiving the H1N1 vaccine.

You know the old saying about "what making assumptions makes you".

You make an ass out of u and mptions?

Somehow that's not how I remember this saying...LOL. Although it is very reminiscent of a funny line from the Samuel Jackson movie, Long Kiss Goodnight.

Sorry...couldn't resist. :-)

LindaAllen - I have to disagree with you on the autism - MMR issue. Here is the study you mention: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/19/1477. You might not be able to access the article, and I could email it to you if you wish. Here is the abstract:

Volume 347:1477-1482

November 7, 2002

Number 19

Next

A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism

Kreesten Meldgaard Madsen, M.D., Anders Hviid, M.Sc., Mogens Vestergaard, M.D., Diana Schendel, Ph.D., Jan Wohlfahrt, M.Sc., Poul Thorsen, M.D., Jørn Olsen, M.D., and Mads Melbye, M.D.

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ABSTRACT

Background It has been suggested that vaccination against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) is a cause of autism.

Methods We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark.

Results Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

Conclusions This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

I respect your opinions, and request any useful links re: the black box warnings or studies that show a link to autism. MMR is given at 12-18 months of age and a booster at age 4-6. I'm not sure what you mean by spacing out vaccines. According to ACIP, spacing out vaccines is not needed and is not standard of care. I do believe that autism is genetic. Here is one article on this: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/7/667. I had a patient suddenly turn "autistic" and we subsequently diagnosed Fragile X syndrome. Other illnesses that cause autistic symptoms are Rett's syndrome, tuberous sclerosis, and Down's syndrome (this dx is easily made). Check out this NEJM info search: http://search.nejm.org/search?w=autism.

See my post 1.4. There has been no thimerosal in routine childhood vaccinations since 2001 except in some multi-dose vials of flu shots.

Not totally correct. see www.vaccinesafety.com for table of mercury content. If you are "allergic" to thimerosol you might want to know this info.

Robert, which routine childhood vaccines on this list contains thimerosal? Hint: There are several shots on this list that are not routine.

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table-09-0918.pdf

Otherwise, I will not be discussing the topic of thimerosal with you.

I agree with you totally, for some people getting this vaccine is the right thing to do and they feel totally safe doing so. Others have questions and rightfully so. If you have ever experienced really bad side effects from vaccines or watched as a small child has had severe side effects from vaccines you would understand the fear of some. Some of us are old enough to remember the Swine Flu shot in the 70's and remember many people having really bad side effects and some actually died, so again this makes some weary of this flu shot. I watched the news the other night and DR. OZ was on talking about this vaccine, he said he will be getting the shot, but his wife and children will not be getting the shot. I guess read from this what you will... but I don't think I want to be one of the first in line to recieve one of these shots... I'll wait and see how others fare with this vaccine before rolling up my sleeve, and I'm thankful I have that choice.

I'm recording Glenn Beck's program today, and will watch it later. I agree with him sometimes. I don't know what he has to say about the vaccine, but I really hope he doesn't add fuel to the fire and add more controversy. I actually emailed him my post 1.4, which I doubt he'll see. He has the ability to potentially harm a lot of people if he fearmongers.

gary z: If that happens, who is going to pay for your socialized society? Most of the Democrats and it's supporters are recipient's of my many years of hard work and other citizens' hard work and paying into society's "special programs"; that pretty much keeps people needy and on welfare. This discussion is about the flu vaccine, not wishing ill will upon your FELLOW AMERICANS! This is America, land of the FREE, and I continue to see our freedoms being taken away. You've got a real attitude problem. Get any shot you want, but you know what, I may or may not, but it's still my "CHOICE". Continue to drink the "kool-aid" and maybe it'll keep you immune to any real intelligence. You might benefit a little if you did quit listening to main-stream media, and THINK FOR YOURSELF! Oh, and God Bless You.....

lady i do not wish to live in your world where all you think about is your self. you are stingy selfcentered and a drain on society. It all started with regan that this nation quite helping others and started thing of just themself and some still have the nerve to call themselfs Christians. as for who would pay for it. i will glady pony up more on my taxes just so you can go to the doctor if you can not afford it. that is the Christian thing today and that is coming from someone who is an atheist.as for our freedoms being taken away thank bush for that. him and your type used the constitution for butt wipe and then started two illegal wars and murdered millions for your type of freedom. if that is what i have to do for that type of freedom forget it.

gary z: You really need to get an education before you talk about other people. My mother is 84 years old and she's not getting this shot either. Why you ask? If she gets the flu, she'll just take care of herself like she's done in the past. People go to doctors way too often and you wonder why insurance rates are so high! And don't bring religion into this either. You and your kind are using any excuse in the book to make yourselves look good, but it's not working. Also, what freedom did Bush take away? Obama and his little bad of thieves are working on that, not Bush. Grow up and go away.

Jan, read the article. Your 84 year old mother likely doesn't even need the swine flu vaccine, as it says. What freedom did Bush take away? Just some "quaint" aspects of the Bill of Rights eroded by his Patriot Act. No big deal to those that didn't care for the Constitution anyway.

Okay Gary Z.......Your comments just verify the sick minds of most left-wing Democrats that live in a world of hate and make-believe. You have so much anger and resentment toward other people it's really sad. And the fact that you'd go out of your way to harm someone else, as per your quote: {"When you and your childern get the flu please go to gleen beck and the republicon party and sneeze on them, cough on them and give them all big hugs and sloppy wet kisses.compliments of the Democratic party and it's supporters."} Those comments are befitting a person like you! What a shame you are so narrow minded about the truth.

Conservative Lady, (Glenn and Rush girl)

Please explain to me which freedoms you've lost, by the current administration.

Was it from the "patriot act"? We've already trimmed that "bush".

Do you still have "freedom of speech"? Thought so.

Still got your guns? I do too.

Can you still vote for the party of your choice? So can I.

Can you attend the church of your choice? I can too.

Can you enjoy an adult beverage? I am.

Please tell me what you've lost.

gary z and anyone else making useless party affiliation comments: Please refer back to my earlier post. I am not Republican, nor am I Democrat. I have no party affiliation. I actually take the time to research the political background and personal stance on specific issues of each candidate and attempt to make an educated decision based on that knowledge.

After you read my post, you may want to reconsider your blind faith in any government agency.

its the flu..... look it up....... don't need a shot for the flu, unless you are in a high risk category,.... and even then I still wouldn't get one.... there is NO reason to, however if YOU want to then go right ahead...... are you a sickly, weak person??... if so, get in shape... on your own... you will be fine.

Brad,

Do you think that those fine young, healthy soldiers that died in WWI would have liked a flu shot?

Here's a positve, the flu can end wars.

It's the track record of this particular vaccine that has people worried. Google what happened last time the government gave this vaccine and why they had to halt the vaccination program suddenly.

Nami-381608:

As I mentioned earlier it isn't modern science I fear, it is the money behind it. Money outweighs legitimate scientific research in this country. Doctors and scientists tend to lean their findings in the direction of whoever is paying their bills.

the problem here is that most of these people here that do not wish to get the shot do not understand how bugs like the swine flu are spread. they think like the people in the 14th century do. if you can not explain it it must be God that made you sick or maybey it was bad water or bad air that made you sick. If you have symptoms of the swine flu and did not get the vaccine please stay home with your doors and windows closed and maybey like during the black plague we will send the wagons to pick up the dead

Good Point daylitte, if people would listen to the warnings and do everyone a favor and stay home when they are ill, we'd all be better off. I work from home most days, but have meetings and occasionally work from my main office and it is very aggravating to have a co-worker think they are doing the right thing by coming into the work place ill, coughing and sneezing and touching the same door knobs and computers as someone else so they can "spread it all around". But I have always had a rule in my office anyway. Don't use my desk phone, and don't use my computer when I am not there. I use alcohol wipes on my desk phone and computer key board regularly and a bottle of hand sanitizer in my desk drawer and car at all times, and people think I am probably compulsive, but I never get the flu and do not get "seasonal cold symptoms". And if your child is ill, the last place they need to be is at school. Keep them home, regardless of what inconvenience it is to you, they don't belong at school sick.

Gary,

The swine flu is weaker than the seasonal flu. Over 30,000 people die from the flu each year. Why don't we hear about that in the media? Why isn't every death from the seasonal flu highlighted in the news?

Actually "over 30,000 people die from the flu" each year is a greatly inflated statistic.....and when you weed out those with compromised immunity, the elderly, the number is even smaller.

so you trusted everything the last adminstration said was the truth. you are a fool and yes we do have a black president and I am so freaking proud that we have crossed that hurtel . but to the dismay of people like me there is still a long ways to go before we have a nation where all people are treat the same. with hope you have not passed your prejudices on to your childern. The last admin should be arrested and sent to the Hauge to face war crimes for crimes agaist humanity.as for fear mongering I do remember idiots from the republicon party scrambling to buy duct tape and plactic and how before every election or bad news for the admin that some terrorist threat come up and they tried to scare people. so it was the bush admin that used scare tatic. they are not using fear here just facts. but you would not know a fact if it bit you on the nose because you are obvious a republicon and republicons hate facts.

It may not have been the H1N1, but, we just had a 16 y/o die from it here..I'm sure her parents feel differently than you.

New:

This just doesn't happen at Wal Mart. It happens everywhere, every place.

Are you one of the guilty ones who tromps to work while being sick, thus spreading the germs to other employees. I don't like this one, either. Even if you are losing money, please stay home.

s-788405

Swine flu came out during the Bush administration. Why did the GOP start this? Did they spread it to Mexico to control illegal immigration?

Doesn't God help those that help themselves?

Did Katie or Glen, it was probably Keith that started this swine flu thing?

learn how to spell

There have been many vigorous medical studies and NOT ONE has shown any link between childhood vaccines and Autism. Very sad--many of these diseases were basically wiped out and are now on the upswing again thanks to people not vaccinating their kids. They put alot of people at risk--especially older people with lower immune systems. As for the flu shot--if you don't want one--don't get one. This is not a conspiracy theory. Boy--people crawl out from under all kinds of rocks on this site.

Tonya......what planet are YOU living on? Why don't you get your facts straight before you make such ridiculous statements......there are actually people on this forum who will believe you!

For your information, kids are coming down with asthma and all kinds of allergies AND especially Autism due to the multitude of vaccinations they get from birth to starting school. How can you not know that! For you to say that people are NOT vaccinating their kids is just plain stupid! That's the problem.....they're vaccinating too much!!!!

A new born baby is only hours old before it's given a Hep B shot and then the assault on their tiny bodies begins from then on.

Okay if this doesn't convince you and the fact that vaccines cause harm to the body, then you need to read some history! Read the book (I think it's available online at no charge) titled "The Horrors of Vaccines". Now, this book for your information, was written back in 1913-14 and has extensive information. And yes, they mandated vaccines back then! The book also contains some photos of patients who had severe reactions to the vaccines and it showed the grotesque state their body was left in. How anyone can read this book without being convinced, should have themselves committed I think!

Karl, your "spellers" broke. Back up your accusations.

Tonya has her medical facts straight. I've read multiple studies that have debunked the link between autism and shots. If you believe us docs are part of the conspiracy, then I can't help you. Cause-and-effect is not the same as association. A patient of mine got developmental delay after a bunch of shots at age 1.5. We did testing which showed that he had Fragile X Syndrome, whose symptoms share a lot of commonalities with autism. I suspect that a lot of the cases of autism are genetic, and now that the human genome has been mapped, we can figure this out within the next few years.

I agree with Mare on one issue only - I disagree with giving hep B vaccine to babies unless mom is infected. Hepatitis B is acquired sexually or through infected neddles, and thus is based on lifestyle and occupation. I believe patients should be educated on this when they are older (teenage years).

By the way, there were no vaccines in 1913 and 1914. Can you give me more info about this so-called book?

Ok, but if you follow the money, may of those 'studies' were funded by the pharma companies themselves...or subsidiaries, or grants from, etc.

You cannot tell me, a child is normal, gets the shots and then is not....then insist it was not the shot, or a normal adolescent gets the Guardasil shot, and is paralyzed within 48 hours, or an infant dies, gets seizures, etc.....but it's never the shot, that was going to happen anyway...BS.

Actually I read about a study linking the Hep B vaccine with autism (check out Dr. Mercola's web page)...which I find interesting because autism started rising the same time that shot started to be given at birth...

luckily my Doc had common sense....(if the babe isn't going to be using IV drugs or having unprotected sex, they don't need the shot yet.....and it may wear off by adolescence, when they may start doing such things.....so wait until then)...and doesn't give Guardasil because there are too many questions.....like with this shot.

actually, Mare, I've read the book you're suggesting. A friend of mine, who has opted to not vaccinate her child, loaned it to me while I was pregnant. After reading it I did my own research (like I do with various other subjects) and found that a lot of the claims they made in that book (with our without studies referenced) pretty much came down to fear mongering, just the same as everyone is accusing both sides of the media of doing.

Keep in mind that most reports based off studies, and even the studies themselves, are biased against the point they're trying to prove. A lot of what I read in your book only gave you half of the details.

Teach kids to wash their hands and promote better hygiene first. You think a vaccine is going to prevent them from getting the flu? I got the flu shot last year and still got the flu. Go ahead and import all these drugs into your body. I wonder what ailment you'll get in a few years!

We are not giving the shot because we want to do all we can for our children...ps. Mercury lowers your IQ......

Theresa S.: Thanks for telling it like it is. Common sense is all that's needed right now. The media and Obama's administration is working on that fear thing all the time, but many of us don't need their advice. If you're sick, JUST STAY HOME!

Theresa,, I have been taking vaccines for years,, and I still breathe.

People who think like you cause epidemics.

YOU are doing far too much harm by spouting your opinions.

There are lots of gullible people in this forum who might mistake you for an expert.

Who gave you people WMD'S anyway (computers, Weapons of Mass Distribution)?

Theresa S,

The swine flu will do it's own testing. Those that live will have resistance to that strain, those that don't will be dead.

LoudMouth: You are absolutely correct. Chicken soup over all the drugs that are given to people on a daily basis is just wrong. People need to stop complaining about every ache and just deal with it. In this case of the flu, natural is the way to go if you don't have any underlying problems.

That remark is really rather unfair to those of us who have commented reasonably on the possible concerns that some parents might have regarding the H1N1 vaccine for their children in accordance with the article we are supposed to be commenting on. It is true that this H1N1 vaccine in multi dose vials does in fact have thimerosol in it. Not the single dose nasal inhalant, but multi dose vials of vaccine. Thimerosol has been linked to Autism in many studies around the world and that is a reasonable concern for some people regarding their children. The comments about government conspiracy theories are just the usual on this vine, that everything including a virus, has a political agenda and that is ridiculous. But there are some real concerns based upon real information for some people choosing not to receive a flu vaccine. That does not make those people wrong or of questionable intelligence.

Hey, it's ok! We have overpopulation anyways! Maybe this could turn out like the 1918 Flu and kill more americans in 7months than all people killed in WW1!

All of you vaccine lovers ought to get a life! You certainly haven't done any research yourselves yet you talk like you know it all. That's pathetic! Do the research for yourselves, not on what somebody else tells you. Compare the reports you read with lots of other reports and weigh the evidence. That's how you find the truth! Then when you've done all that, you use plain common sense and your own intuition about what represents the truth.

As for doctors......all I can say about them is that most of them.....not all....have been indoctrinated by the pharmaceutical company reps. Check that out too, there are reports from former drug reps. who turned into whistle blowers will testify that they were told what to say to doctors when making their sales pitches.

You just have to understand that the bottom line is all about the money! The drug companies stand to make billions in profits from these vaccine promotions. And as someone else stated on this forum......why aren't they promoting an alert for all the other diseases like Austism and Diabetes etc. that have become epidemic!

LindaAllen and Mare,

Show me the proof. I want to see the evidence of autism and vaccines.

I've been vaccinated as have my entire family, no autism.

Maybe, just maybe, it was drug use in your younger years.

Mosephus

How dare you assume that I have a child with autism and then make such an incensitive and juvenile comment regarding drug use. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being. If you are so damn smart, why not go to the New england Journal of Medicine website and do a search or why not just search Autism in relationship to vaccinations. There is plenty of research for your little brain to go through. My comments have continued to state clearly that "parents" have need to worry about vaccinating their children and clearly there are risks, though few and far between. You may not have autism in your family, but too bad you were not vaccinated against stupidity. I have not posted one comment advocating for children not to be vaccinated. All of mine were and none of them got autism either. I simply stated that I understand why some parents are being so challenged in their decision to do so. What you said was a horrible thing and completely unnecessary, I hope a parent of an autistic child does not read your mindless comment.

Your comment reinforces my case, thanks.

Heaven help that you grow an extra digit or two.

Maybe the government will provide you a handicapped keyboard.

I even stated my sources and that's the best comback you can do? Sheesh. No thanks. No keyboard for me. I don't need anything from this government thank you. People like you on the otherhand are used to getting injected in the rear by the government and their propaganda!

It's not a comeback.

It is a retort to silly @!$%#.

You can take a resource like the internet and use it to collect little snippets like the links

you provided and you can cause panic.

I can find you links to many sites that will tell you that even your own mother is bad for you.

Your site collections do not impress.

Facts do.

Fact is, if you do not get a free flu vaccine, you are ignorant of facts.

You can find articles where people died of vaccines,, of fires, earthquakes etc.

That does not make a simple flu vaccine a killing or maiming machine.

The odds are against those who don't take the vaccine, PERIOD.

If you decide not to,, fine.

That will leave more for the ones who are Darwin's proof.

Survival.

Loudmouth. FYI that girl with the cervical vaccine died from cancer she had growing in her already. The vaccine had nothing to do with her death. Unfortunately she did not know that she had cancer and coincidentally died on the same day. This info came from her autopsy results.

I agree with Jenny. Not all of the FACTS are known in the cases presented by your articles. It's all speculation and "I feel like I have suffered side effects but nothing has been proven yet" type reactions. FYI all sorts of things can cause the swelling of the brain. And yes, coincidences DO happen. I'm not saying she didn't have a reaction, just that your "proof" is not what you state it to be.

Corsair, while you have a point, your methods and attacks are idiotic and not helpful to anyone. BTW, just because you don't get the flu shot doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about. A lot of people HAVE educated themselves and have found too many IFs for their liking.

astroturfang

It's hard to find the words to write down that my heart feels in sorrow for your two boys. As a Mom, I can't even imagine what you must feel. Your comment reminded me of my own boys, tiny infants placed on the table in the pediatricians office and letting them be injected with multiple doses of vaccines at one time and God only knows how much Mercury their little bodies had to absorb and metabolize. But that was in the 70's and we, as Mom's did not know better. Today, parents have a sophisticated network of information available to them and I respect any parent who chooses not to vaccinate their children. As I stated in one of my earlier comments, given what I know today, I don't know what I would do as a parent of a child today.

Linda, childhood vaccines do NOT have mercury in them.

Everyone here is so full of information.

Here's some info. My daughter in law was so afraid her son might get autism from a vaccine, so no vaccinations for him. He died of measles last year at 7 months old.

Yes, the vaccine would have prevented it.

What are your comments now?......

Sorry for your loss. MMR isn't scheduled until at least 12 mos

That's my comment now

Mosephus -

Sorry for your loss. MMR isn't scheduled until 12-18 months of age, but he did likely get measles from someone who was not vaccinated. Herd immunity would have prevented his death. Again, I'm very sorry. Tell your daughter-in-law that it wasn't her fault, if she doesn't already know that - it would be a different story if he was past the age of routine vaccination.

Crowd control

what?

You are getting your information from the "Planted" source. They want all of you zombies to run to the news as a source but what you are forgetting is that they can play with words and move numbers to make things look real to the reader. I bet you can't wait to see the Terror Alert Level change to Red so that you can tell everyone that you told them so...oh wait a minute...where did that Terror Alert Level reader go? How will we know if there's going to be a terrorist attack? Hahahaha!

I don't let the news, President, CDC, or anyone else dictate what should go into my body. If I want it there then it would be solely my decision not the scared masses of sheeps. Dance puppet, dance! "The sky is falling, the sky is falling"! Now I know why they made that character a chicken....funny!

lol your funny.....thanks for your informed post. But on a serious note I really hope you do not get sick, I really hope this all turns out to be nothing.