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{"contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"health"}

23-year-coma recovery case attracts doubters

Some scientists are raising doubts about the case of a Belgian man who reportedly started communicating again after spending 23 years locked in a paralyzed body.

{"contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"health"}
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
{"commentId":10908804,"authorDomain":"vickyt"}

There has been some discussion of this story on a neurofeedback professionals group.

There are now eeg (brainwave) guided programs that could be effectively used with this patient. There is one that was developed at Stanford as a virtual reality video game interface, but it can be used with quadraplegics and those with locked-in syndrome, as well as other diseases such as ALS.

Vicky T, Occupational Therapist

{"commentId":10908804,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"vickyt"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:18 PM EST
{"commentId":10908890,"authorDomain":"curious-1"}

He appears to be as competent as our leadership in Washington and some corporate CEO's.

{"commentId":10908890,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"curious-1"}
  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:37 PM EST
{"commentId":10908993,"authorDomain":"homi02"}

And the award goes to Craig Speakman for being the person in the forum that brings the completely unrelated subject of any given article back to politics first!!! Well done Craig!

Granted there is always some A$$hole that has to bring politics into every single forum discussion, but you Craig Speakman are today's A$$hole!!

{"commentId":10908993,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"homi02"}
  • 12 votes
#1.2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:56 PM EST
{"commentId":10909209,"authorDomain":"curious-1"}

StMiller, I gladly accept my award, and I will sue you if you fail to send it to me. By the way, what did you have to say so informative about the article itself?

I take it back, you keep the award for being the biggest hypocrite on Newsvine! You see how it works now, you have to be bright if your going to attempt to be a smart-ass in life, and I think you just failed!

{"commentId":10909209,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"curious-1"}
    #1.3 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:41 PM EST
    {"commentId":10909794,"authorDomain":"mike-51"}

    No Craig, StMiller is right. You are the frustrated wipe who HAS to whine about politics. Congratulations.

    I'll add something relevant to the conversation below.

    {"commentId":10909794,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"mike-51"}
    • 6 votes
    #1.4 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:24 PM EST
    {"commentId":10910500,"authorDomain":"grammie"}

    Be nice boys !! no need for this

    {"commentId":10910500,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"grammie"}
    • 2 votes
    #1.5 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:52 PM EST
    {"commentId":10916220,"authorDomain":"homi02"}

    Craig, I don't have to add comments everytime I visit the Newsvine portion of an article. I can just read the comments as there is no requirement for someone to write each time they open Newsvine. You might try it sometime when you have nothing of import to add.

    {"commentId":10916220,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"homi02"}
    • 3 votes
    #1.6 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:56 PM EST
    {"commentId":10917329,"authorDomain":"torgo2009"}
    torgo2009Deleted
    {"commentId":10938404,"authorDomain":"Levin777"}

    seems to me there should be some mechanical device that could support the weight of his arm and then all he has to do is move his fingers. Not only would that erase any doubts, and would probably free up the therapist for other patients.

    Anyway, I wish Rom well. What a horrendous event. Could you imagine if he was in the former Soviet Union, or some other country where they would think, "Ah, he's unconscious. Let's do the surgery, and we don't even need to medicate him." And it seems like a mother's love safeguarded him all these years. How wonderful it is that she is not only vindicated in her insistence that he was conscious, but that in some form she has her son back.

    {"commentId":10938404,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"Levin777"}
      #1.8 - Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:23 PM EST
      {"commentId":10994591,"authorDomain":"parthur169"}

      Who cares! He may as well be dead. That is not a life.

      {"commentId":10994591,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"parthur169"}
        #1.9 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 1:47 PM EST
        Reply
        {"commentId":10908860,"authorDomain":"gregat"}

        I am not judging the validity of the story yet, but it is interesting (and a bit ironic) that the first two critics mentioned in the article - professor Caplan, a professor of 'Bioethics', and Dr. Powell, a member of the British Psychological Society - are themselves associated with disciplines involving as much if not more 'pseudoscience' as the science upon which they claim to doubt the story.

        {"commentId":10908860,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"gregat"}
          Reply#2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:33 PM EST
          {"commentId":10909143,"authorDomain":"piscojim"}

          This isnt exactly difficult to verify......grab a person walking through the door of the hospital, take them to the room. Tell everyone to leave except the unknown person, have them speak their name to him and ask him to type it. Case closed......

          {"commentId":10909143,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"piscojim"}
          • 2 votes
          Reply#3 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:28 PM EST
          {"commentId":10909175,"authorDomain":"mcseatwizard"}

          They don`t want to cut thier "fifteen minutes of fame" short Jim!

          {"commentId":10909175,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"mcseatwizard"}
          • 2 votes
          #3.1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:34 PM EST
          {"commentId":10910050,"authorDomain":"penguin15"}

          Did you not read the article? THEY DID THAT. Straight outta the article:

          One of the checks Laureys applied to verify Houben was really communicating was to send the speech therapist away before showing his patient different objects. When the aide came back and Houben was asked to say what he saw, that same hand held by the aide punched in the right information, he said.

          What now?

          {"commentId":10910050,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"penguin15"}
          • 2 votes
          #3.2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:56 PM EST
          {"commentId":10994636,"authorDomain":"parthur169"}

          Watch magic aide hand.

          {"commentId":10994636,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"parthur169"}
            #3.3 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 1:49 PM EST
            Reply
            {"commentId":10909293,"authorDomain":"crowder451"}

            I do hope the recovery is true.

            {"commentId":10909293,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"crowder451"}
              Reply#4 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:00 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909333,"authorDomain":"tommyb"}

              Why don't they blindfold to facilitator. If she is feeling his answers then she will move him to the correct spot. Better yet, I can't take credit for this, Get a facilitator who only speaks English and engage in a Flemish Dialogue. I this is truthful it is wonderful, but if it is false this is a cruel hoax on the family.

              {"commentId":10909333,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"tommyb"}
              • 2 votes
              Reply#5 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:10 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909517,"authorDomain":"jjmb"}

              I saw the video and I did not think he was typing for himself. I worked at a school where the P/T people would come and work with the handicapped kids they would write reports about how they were doing so great but if you were around the kids you could see that the reports they wrote were full of @!$%#. They are still handicapped they are not getting up out the wheelchair and walk,run or speak it is sad but that is the hard cold fact.

              {"commentId":10909517,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"jjmb"}
              • 3 votes
              Reply#6 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:41 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909716,"authorDomain":"cumquat"}

              The quickest way to discredit the doubters is to get a second translator, one with no connection with the case, replicate the translation technique used by the first translator. If they find the man can only communicate through the original translator, we'll know it's a hoax.

              {"commentId":10909716,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"cumquat"}
              • 1 vote
              Reply#7 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:13 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909831,"authorDomain":"mike-51"}

              When the doctor claimed "medical privacy" to protect his verification methods then it was obvious this was a ruse from way up the ladder. Anyone looking at the video of this fraud can tell that the patient often is not looking towards the keyboard, or even has his eyes closed while "typing". Somebody in the media that keep repeating these claims as facts are duty-bound to demand the simple tests that have been proposed by others on this board, in front of a running camera - or declare them the frauds that they are.

              {"commentId":10909831,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"mike-51"}
              • 4 votes
              Reply#8 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:29 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909943,"authorDomain":"Tvar"}

              In a world where people pay to watch dogs tear themselves apart, and people cheer to see some low life dressed in laces wearing ballerina shoes ram a sword into the spine of a magnificent creature called Toro...does it really surprise anyone to hear this story could possibly be a scam? I would hope not; to exploit this poor creature with such a story would confirm a part of our society has sunken to a level of moral character that is almost terrifying.

              {"commentId":10909943,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"Tvar"}
              • 1 vote
              Reply#9 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:43 PM EST
              {"commentId":10909978,"authorDomain":"morndew247-1"}

              The reason everyone is questioning it so much is that in the video I saw, his eyes were closed. I mean...they were CLOSED! He wasn't even looking.

              I don't doubt it's possible, and hope it is...but at least show us a video that makes him look awake!!

              {"commentId":10909978,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"morndew247-1"}
              • 3 votes
              Reply#10 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:48 PM EST
              {"commentId":10911106,"authorDomain":"dwilli10"}

              The segment I saw seemed to show his eyes were open, at least a bit, HOWEVER . . . He wasn't looking at the board the assistant was using to type on and I seriously doubt anyone could follow slight hand signals at the speed she was. I would be hard-pressed to type out messages on that board at the speed I saw on a TV segment.

              This is clearly not proof that he is actually generating the data being typed.

              {"commentId":10911106,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"dwilli10"}
              • 4 votes
              #10.1 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:09 AM EST
              {"commentId":10917082,"authorDomain":"morndew247-1"}

              Agreed.

              {"commentId":10917082,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"morndew247-1"}
                #10.2 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:06 PM EST
                Reply
                {"commentId":10910001,"authorDomain":"ditkoquestion"}

                Facilitated communication was demonstrated to be a hoax years ago. If I believed in a hell, I'd wish it on the person exploiting this family's hopes.

                {"commentId":10910001,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"ditkoquestion"}
                • 4 votes
                Reply#11 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:51 PM EST
                {"commentId":10910540,"authorDomain":"terryatkins"}

                Why are people doubting this? Do they KNOW the patient? Have they been to visit the patient? I'd say they do not and have not. Therefore, they are not qualified to make a judgment. Get a life people and move on. As for Morndew, I can type with my eyes closed as well...doesn't mean that I'm not doing the typing just because my eyes are closed....

                {"commentId":10910540,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"terryatkins"}
                • 2 votes
                Reply#12 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:57 PM EST
                {"commentId":10910698,"authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}

                But can you direct another person's hands to the appropriate keys with your eyes closed?

                If this is done through mental telepathy, then there is no need for actual contact. But of course that would make it even more unbelievable.

                {"commentId":10910698,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}
                • 2 votes
                #12.1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:19 PM EST
                {"commentId":10910712,"authorDomain":"apixie"}

                does it matter lol you know what they say about people with opnions. Only thing I can think of is how lucky he is not to live here in the USA. He'd have been Terri Shiavo'd 13 years ago. May be worth moving there someday really soon.

                {"commentId":10910712,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"apixie"}
                • 1 vote
                #12.2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:20 PM EST
                {"commentId":10923752,"authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}

                The official autopsy indicated that the brain of Terri weighed less than half of the brain of an average adult. Lends credence to the old adage "if you don't use it, you lose it." Keeping a mind active keeps it from going through stages of atrophy just like it does for muscles. Make me wonder about the real mental abilities of this guy who has been in a coma for 23 years.

                {"commentId":10923752,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}
                  #12.3 - Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:25 AM EST
                  {"commentId":10938842,"authorDomain":"penguin15"}

                  Schiavo had brain death, leading to brain weight loss. This guy's brain was active for the entire time, as shown by brain scans, hence the ability to recover. You're comparing apples and oranges, my friend.

                  {"commentId":10938842,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"penguin15"}
                    #12.4 - Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:57 PM EST
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":10910667,"authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}
                    He said there are many more tests he and his team conducted that he won't divulge because they are covered by medical secrecy and patients rights. "How would you like me discussing your IQ on the Internet?" he asked.

                    He wasn't asked to divulge the results of the tests but how about releasing the types of tests. Those are not covered by medical secrecy. What a joke. I accept the patients' right to privacy and the right to confidentiality - but SECRECY?

                    I think Laureys has been taking too many self prescribed medications. When he comes out of his altered state of consciousness maybe he will realize how ridiculous his comments are.

                    {"commentId":10910667,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"doug-wentzell"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#13 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:16 PM EST
                    {"commentId":10911402,"authorDomain":"r-katt"}

                    Everything I've seen and read about this guy indicates that he is NOT communicating. His so-called "facillitator" is doing all the work. I fully supported Terry Shiavo. This poor guy is not in the same situation.

                    {"commentId":10911402,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"r-katt"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#14 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:54 AM EST
                    {"commentId":10912772,"authorDomain":"louise-v"}

                    I saw the "facilitator" moving this guy's hand so his fingers would type! This is a lying scam, to say this poor fellow is "communicating!"

                    {"commentId":10912772,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"louise-v"}
                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#15 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:24 AM EST
                    {"commentId":10913815,"authorDomain":"ccfarris"}

                    For somebody who hadn’t been reading or writing for twenty-three years, his spelling is pretty good, and the story literally unbelievable.

                    {"commentId":10913815,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"ccfarris"}
                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#16 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:06 AM EST
                    {"commentId":10914457,"authorDomain":"phyllis1957"}

                    Politics?  fame-seeking? Ouiji boards?  As the mom of a non-verbal, 21-year- old, multipli-handicapped boy, who has had some incredible life-threatening odds to overcome, and has (and communicates quite well, THANK YOU VERY MUCH), first, I'd like to comment on Professor Arthur Caplans' comment on Ouiji board stuff:  sounds like you've had some experience!!!  Shouldn't you be doing more to study how to give life?  Unfortunately, I hope this doesn't, once again, come down to $$$, because we know how that usually ends up!!! So my suggestion, is to keep all arrogant, self-seeking, members of the medical profession out of this one, and let the doctors that are familiar with his case continue to try to give him life and enhance that life!!!  -  signed, speaking from experience

                    {"commentId":10914457,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"phyllis1957"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#17 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:55 AM EST
                    {"commentId":10917207,"authorDomain":"torgo2009"}
                    torgo2009Deleted
                    {"commentId":10922230,"authorDomain":"Slinger"}

                    Skeptics will always be skeptics, but these kind of stories actually give hope to families who have gone through the trauma of having a loved one in a coma. It does for me anyway. My sister was in a horrific car crash at 24 years old and ended up in a coma. Unfortunately, thirty years ago they didn't have the proficiency of equipment that is in use today. Anyone know how heart and gut wrenching it is to make a decision to take someone you absolutely love off of life support? Every time I walked in the room, she squeezed my hand and started crying. Doctor's told me it was "reflexes" and that she was brain "dead". Stories like this make me wonder if my distraught mother was right, and that we should NOT have removed her from life support...

                    {"commentId":10922230,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"Slinger"}
                      Reply#19 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:06 PM EST
                      {"commentId":10923917,"authorDomain":"rescue8"}

                      He was in a non communicative state for 23-years, comes out of it and is able to communicate like an english major (or french). People go crazy when put into solitary confinement for months, why not 23-years?

                      I would love for the family to have this miracle but I do not believe it is so. I also believe the family is as deep in this hoax as everyone else, but perhaps understand their part, they can't let him go (or maybe they want their own reality show).

                      Now we have all done the same remote diagnosis as the republicans were able to do with Terri Shiavo and she was as gone as this guy - imho.

                      {"commentId":10923917,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"rescue8"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#20 - Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:56 AM EST
                      {"commentId":10934667,"authorDomain":"arobed"}

                      If the facilitator is not guiding him, why wouldn't the results be the same with any person supporting his arms? Why does it have to be just that specific speech therapist guiding him in order for him to be able to type? If I hold his arms, will we get the same results?

                      {"commentId":10934667,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"arobed"}
                        Reply#21 - Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:16 AM EST
                        {"commentId":10935452,"authorDomain":"jeffreysmith-1"}

                        Regardless of the facilitated communication issue, this guy had been in virtual solitary confinement for 23 years. After that period of time with no outside communication, he would be as loony as they come. Solitary confinement for even relatively short periods of time has been shown to cause mental problems, after 23 years there is no way this guy would be able to have a coherent conversation with anyone. I feel sorry for the family being taken advantage of by this publicity seeking doctor with this hoax. The doctor deserves to do some time in prison for what he is doing to this family.

                        {"commentId":10935452,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"jeffreysmith-1"}
                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#22 - Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:26 AM EST
                        {"commentId":10977823,"authorDomain":"tricare"}

                        What a crock!

                        {"commentId":10977823,"threadId":"733481","contentId":"3550654","authorDomain":"tricare"}
                          #22.1 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 5:44 PM EST
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