Reid and crew left for the weekend, so I am sure they dont care......

RAM IT THROUGH!!!!

This whole administration is a SHAM

Didn't he just threaten that the Senate may not even get Christmas off if this wasn't passed? Reid and crew are a bunch of nincompoops.

Reid had a fund raiser to get to!!!Seriously!!!

You know, the other news agencies reported this hours ago. Why is it just now on MSNBC?

Give you three guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and President Obama are going to have a joint news conference next week explaining why they have decided to do away with the Health and Human Services Department. STAND BY FOR THE REPORT

Nanana, nanana, say hey, goodbye!

Now, can we properly fix the health-care industry by using capitalistic ideologies?

HEY OLD PEOPLE!!! GUESS WHAT AARP CLAIMS TO REPRESENT YOU AND IS PUSHING THIS INSANITY!!

My guess is that the leaders of AARP are covering their eyes about now, pretending that they don't see this. Or perhaps they know that once this sham is passed it will be tweaked to death by future legislators who will increase its cost by trillions.

If health care reform passes, medicare will go bankrupt....sorry, but some things are true if you believe them or not.

They report this on a Friday because it is a slow news day, and they hope that the public will forget by Monday. They hope you will not remember why you thought they should all be tarred and feathered.

The cost predictions do not matter. How it will impact the future does not matter. The fact that the percentage against it is over 60% does not matter. They must and will push through this plan to save face. I has nothing to do with health care at this point. It has everything to do with projecting the power to push through a bill, even if this bill works like the iceberg that titanic hit, with the economy being the Titanic. For the good of the party, not the people, the party, they will push through this bill. They want Obama to have a win for the state of the union address in Jan. ,and by God, even if the economy takes a major hit because of this behemoth , they are going to give him that win.

What a revolting waste of time this entire health care debate has been. Months and months of negotiations, pandering, arm twisting, begging, etc and this is the best they can come up with? It will cost us more than doing nothing? This is incredulous! This congress needs to go! November 2010 cannot get here soon enough. In their first 11 months, the congress and president have failed at every turn. We are worse off today than this time 1 year ago, regardless of what the stock market says.

al-queda and the muslim extermists are now a very distant runner up to the well being and security of the united states.the biggest threat to our continued existance is the self loving imbeciles who refuse to acknowledge that the vast majority of americans oppose the treason that is being proffered by the criminals running congress along with their self absorbed leader......

In other words, Obama, Pelosi and Reid have been LYING LYING LYING all along.

It is only lying if you don't believe your own words. I truly believe that Obama, Pelosi and Reid believe this plan will save money and is good for the country. I also believe that this health care "reform" will be the biggest mistake made in Washington since another well-meaning idiot, named George W. Bush, led us into an unnecessary and ruinous war in Iraq.

To all those angered and alarmed by this "reform" bill, as am I, start by writing your congressman or woman and in this upcoming Congressional elections, vote Republican, vote independent and vote against incumbents. Maybe if the Democrats lose a dozen or more seats in the two houses, they'll smarten up and realize the vast majority of Americans are not to the left of Lenin politically.

Why can't the Democrats realize that the great tide which swept them into power in 2006 was not a mandate for ultra-liberal policies, any more than the 1994 shift was a mandate for the ultra-conservatives. In each case voters were sick of the excesses of the current party in power.

Well, they can pass this plan in 2009, but it will get repealed in 2011.

I don't think the CBO analyzed for the extension of Medicare to people as young as 55. So why are the Dems still pushing the old analysis?

In time congress and the senate will slowly but completely realize the reality that the conservatives were right about evrything all along.

Yet again the bad news comes out late Friday night, thank God the main stream media is hear to "take out the trash" for the liberals. By Monday its old news and buried, the poor huddled masses none the wiser.

This is reaching the point of absurdity.

These ****ers couldn't legislate their way out of a wet paper bag.

In time congress and the senate will slowly but completely realize the reality that the conservatives were right about evrything all along.

You are an optimist. I believe they will hem, haw, go through 7 stages of denial, and blame everyone except the architects of the bill.

You know this Obama thing about Hope and Change is really starting to catch on.

I Hope we can survive until November without passing some disastrous, bumbling legislation on health care and illegal alien amnesty.

Why don't they can this elephant?

We have more pressing issues! They are wasting their time fiddling while the U.S. burns. Just think how much further along we could be if they would have put all this time into helping the economy and reconstruction of Industry and private sector jobs!

Good bye to all the insensible incumbents!

WTF? WTF? WTF?

Why in Gods name are we wasting time on this POS if this article is true.

Why do these people - be it Republican or Deomocrat lie to us over and over and over.

I am so GD sick and tired of this crap.

I SWEAR - next election - I WILL NOT vote for anything but Independent. ANYTHING ELSE is an automatic L-I-A-R in my book.

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.

They all make me sick to my stomach and I hope all of these people go to hell!

I am sick and tired of all of them!

The conservatives have been right about one, And that is they will do everything to kill health care for Americans. They weren't to damn conservative about two endless wars, tax cuts during these endless wars, and adding six trillion more dollars to the national debt under King George.

I'm really sorry these idiots, the Repuklicans, do not believe taking care of Americans first at any cost versus taking care of the world and all of it's troubles. Health Care costs are destroying America from within and the fricking capitalist's have proven they don't care by shipping every job abroad because of these costs.

America will never compete in a world economy with these staggering costs that are laid on small businesses like mine. I don't know what the solution is, but I can see Republicans will do nothing but obstruct any and all Democratic proposals. Not one thing other than war have they stood by this administration on... SAD..

I for one do believe in America's government, we have the best of many things in the world here in America, and this government needs come together and step in and fix this problem. It can be done...........

Uncontrolled capitalism is what caused this economic meltdown in America and these rich people must be stopped from further damaging this country... Shipping every job out of America for cheap labor, health care, and environmental costs is treason and UnAmerican........... Only America's Government can reverse this downward spiral were in now and I hope it happens soon.......

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SO, 6 MONTHS OF BRAINFARTING, IQ DEPLETING, LIEBERAL INCOMPETENCE AND WE END UP WITH THIS????????????????????????????????????????????????

OHHHHHHHHH,,,,,THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!

No bipartisanship, the group of three, the group of 5, the gang of 10, closed door meetings, public option, no public option, single-payer, options, exchanges, Medicare for 55 yo's, pay-as-you-go, pay for 4 years before you get a benefit, waste, fraud, abuse, abortion, no abortion, savings, no savings, public plans, private plans, death panels, sticker-shock, $300 MILLION DOLLAR bribe, Reid, Dodd, Schumer, Snowe, Obama, CBO, 1,000 pages, 2074 pages.

A THOUSAND STUPID IDEAS AND NOW A RECKLESS FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Government shows its total incompetence to create let alone run a successful social program, entitelment or business again. This MOB posing as politicians have degraded to a desperate, out of touch, irresponsible gang of buffoons. To come up with this after wasting all that time and money should remind us to be very careful of ANY other legislation they try to ram down our throat.

PERHAPS THIS LIEBERAL CONGRESS HAS LEARNED THAT A TRUE BIPARTISAN EFFORT IS THE ONLY WAY ANY TYPE OF HEALTH CARE REDISTRIBUTION WILL EVER WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5 objectives that MUST BE INCLUDED.

1) Allow private insurance to be purchased across state lines.

2) Tort Reform.

3) Demand the $500 BILLION DOLLARS of waste, fraud and abuse is real, not just some BUZZ-WORDS to appease what you think is a unaware population.

4) Regulate portablility, transferability, no loss of coverage due to pre-existing conditions or new onset illness.

5) Make the bill 200-300 pages that EVERYONE who will be affected by this reform can understand it.

THESE SUGGESTIONS HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE FOUNDATION OF ANY SUSTAINABLE, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE REDISTRIBUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG

quit worshiping at the altar of government!

Only America's Government can reverse this downward spiral were in now and I hope it happens soon.......

This attitude is WHY we have the jerks running the country now! You sit on your butt and you wait for government to save you! You get going! You fix your life! Quit waiting for Washington to give you a hand-out!

Do something! I'm volunteering to help with the 2010 campaign in Virginia. Sen. Webb is up for election, and I'm going to do everything in my power to see that SOB out of office! As one little person, I'm going to do my part. I'm not going to sit around and whine that the government needs to fix my life. I want them to get the F**k out of my way!

lol all this time and this is what we get. and the liberals still believe in global warming and the takeover of the financial crisis too.....can anyone say sheep?

silentmajority good one, you can start by voting libertarian. limited government it believes in. but be careful i read the government has the list of all registered libertarians and listed them as possible terrorists.......ask yourself this...what type of government would list an organization whose goal is limited federal government, more power to the states, and personal freedom to do what you want as long as it doesnt interfere with the rights of others? i can name three...fascism, communism, socialism....a democratic republic would not view them as terrorists so there would be no list. the government is crooked dems and repubs...heck probably all are ......

I'm shocked! Shocked I say! I can't believe that a bunch of our estemed lawmakers could be screwing up something this important.

Er. . . maybe that's too sarcastic?

If Chris Dodd says it's okay,then gosh darn it, it must be okay! I mean Chris and his buddy Barney have never been wrong about anything before,have they??

They're politicians they can't handle truth!

Everett -

Obama has spent more in under a year than Bush did in eight.

Wars? The Congress voted for them. The current Democratic President is increaing them. Why do you blame Republicans, and slimily smear their name?

Capitalism did not caused this. The government has so interfered with capitalism that we have a mishmash of indusries, including the medical one, with random regulations that obscure the capitalism.

Why don't you speak to the obvious lying of the Democrats on this health care bill's costs...BTW, they have also lied about who will be covered (illegals) and death panels (they are in the bill...need you look further ALREADY than that mammogram screening edict from a bunch of family practice doctors and statisticians?)

Has anyone seen America's government? I think a lobbyist carted the last piece of it out about 1991!!

In 2010 and 2012, we need to have our voices heard. The one thing they haven't tried to take from us yet is the power of the vote. That's the only way we might make congress understand that we've had enough and we'll start switching some seats in the joint. Let's get a few of those long timers out of the place, rock a few boats, and MAYBE they'll get the message. A lot of these old timers just think they have a lock on the seat and we won't vote them out. I look at these blogs daily and I don't see too many, if any, saying yeah we're going the right way. I don't think anybody wants what's going on now.

Not only do they warn that the program faces a high likely-hood of failure, but there are also a lot people out there like myself that will be dedicated to hastening the failure of this program. We will do this in two ways. First, many of us will "go on strike", cutting back our work hours and therefore our salary to a level that makes us eligible for the maximum government subsidy to pay the insurance premium. This will also cut our total income tax paid to zero. Second, we will visit the doctor frequently, using our free time to do a lot of reading at the doctors office. This will burden the system with no improvement in total health care and with less money available for medical procedures. These measures will eventually bring down what is already going to be an insolvent program. And good riddance. I hope we also break Medicare while we are at it.

So the truth is coming out, and the Democratic plan is more costly than doing nothing at all, and the changes to Medicare will bankrupt the system.

Time to start some smoke and mirrors, or go back to square one.

Of course the Democrats want to focus attention on the "deficit", because they'll collect taxes for 10 years, but only provide benefits for 6 years. After that, it's all cost and little benefit.

They must think the American public is too dumb to see what's going on.

Let's see now.

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

Higher taxes and costs on businesses and investors – that should help job growth.

Collect taxes and penalties for 4 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 4 years before we get to see it.

A "Public Option" that will drive insurance companies out of business because they won't have the taxpayer subsidies to compete, which will lose a million jobs or more,

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business, which will lead to severe rationing of care – especially with 30 million more “insured” and much higher malpractice insurance premiums because they have to work 20% faster, and will have dramatic cuts in their “reimbursement rates” for services.

Is there any group that the Democrats left out when finding ways to screw up the economy?????

Oh - I almost forgot - They project the National Debt will go up by $1.2 Trillion more, which means it will ACTUALLY go up by about $3 Trillion because of this bill. Obama's own Budget calls for the National Debt to increase to over $23 Trillion in 10 years WITHOUT this bill's cost, but it's extremely optimistic, and will probably be over $30 Trillion, which will put our children and grandchildren hopelessly in debt to foreigners (like China).

I think that covers just about everyone, except perhaps the illegal immigrants, who will get free or subsidized health care at taxpayer expense, but they can't vote (at least for now).

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR'S ELECTIONS TO SHOW OUR “APPRECIATION”.

Of course we'll have to contend with ACORN, who will register a few million extra imaginary voters and illegal immigrants for the next election. It worked well in Minnesota, where they registered 48,000 new voters (using taxpayer funds), which allowed Al Franken to win the key 60^th Senate seat by 312 votes. Somehow they “misplaced” most of their registrations for Republicans.

You voted for “Change we can believe in”, and you certainly got it, didn't you.

CONGRATULATIONS.

"it would attract people in poor health" -- what should be done with people in poor health?

I really can't see obama listening to anyone with any grasp of reality. He will force it through and let us deal with the damage. This administration has gone off the deep end on most issues. We really need clearer heads in these positions.

"it would attract people in poor health" -- what should be done with people in poor health?

Doug, your comment points to a good question. A better wording of it might be, what can our society afford to do with people in poor health.

Today, we spend about 15% of our GNP on health care and cover approximately 70% of the people in the country. State by state, the yearly inflation rate of health care costs ranges from a low of about 7%, in Michigan, to a high of 10 or 11% in states like Texas. Here in Massachusetts, a state which [attempted to] address this problem, it is about 8.2%. And in Massachusetts, the health care insurance industry is highly competitive, and includes several not-for-profit companies, none of which has helped hold down costs.

Any discussion of health care reform has to begin with a program to reduce costs, otherwise attempts to extend coverage to the remaining 30% of population and to "people in poor health", will bankrupt our nation. If we cannot control and reverse the upward climb of medical care costs in this country, then our society cannot afford universal coverage.

It really is that simple.

I see nothing in the proposed bill which will do anything to contain medical care costs. The public option is just another entitlement program, which will entail higher taxes and higher medical care costs. I'm against it. And I'm against any politician who is for it.

In Massachusetts we have an impending Senatorial election between another liberal Democrat and a virtually unknown Republican. I hope a lot of concerned, middle-of-the-road voters get out and vote for this unknown. Maybe, just maybe, if Martha Coakley doesn't win in a landslide, it will send a message to Washington that voters are not pleased with this health care reform plan. ...and no, I don't believe Republican candidate, Scott Brown, has any more chance than a 65-year-old running wind sprints across the Massachusetts turnpike during rush hour traffic.

The one bright note: The bill would provide coverage to 93 percent of U.S. residents, reducing the number of uninsured people by about 33 million, the report said.

Wow! I never knew there was only about 36 million people in the U.S. I always thought it was 10 times that.

Colonel - The statement says it would provide coverage for 93% of U.S. residents, which does not imply it was starting at 0%. That is total coverage under the plan, not expanded coverage.

But I think that you knew that.

Playing with numbers, or misinterpreting them, only increases the confusion on this complex and intractable issue.

The conservatives have been right about one, And that is they will do everything to kill health care for Americans.

Wow, do you seriously believe that? I was unaware the GOP wanted to kill private insurance and prevent people from going to hospitals. Learn something new every day! What you are doing is called MISREPRESENTATION OF FACTS.

Misrepresentation of facts is the norm from Washington these days.

The laws that are made most often represent what will get people elected rather than furthering our country to more secure positions. The mortgage crisis is a supreme example of this problem. Masses of people got into homes that were not qualified because Fannie and Freddie opened the door. This led to a new balance of Political demographics. New home owners migrated into areas that turned from conservative to liberal because housing became affordable to them. Their votes tilted the political dynamic in those communities.

ACORN used the government funds to register folks. tilting the election in key districts towards a liberal agenda. All accomplished under the guise of helping people.

The Health Care issue is no different. It is being pushed to help those who do not have and cannot pay... kind of like those who couldn't afford a down payment for a home. This ends up taking everybody in the middle class down a notch on the "way of life" scale. So, good hard working people end up struggling to make ends meet. And more votes are bought and paid fpr through Health Care.

This Health Care Package cannot go through... even if compromises are made. All a compromise will end up doing is opening the door for it to evolve into a huge government bureaucracy. Liberals know this! The same principle has worked for the EPA. They started off with limited power but today they are on the verge of mandating Climate change regulations if an accord is not reached in Copenhagen.

That's why I say that the whole proposal needs to be canned and thrown out. The government cannot be trusted to stay small because history tells us that these entities just become part of the fabric and grow! Government is already too big.

This report told most of us who live in the "real world" and not Obama's fantasy land, what we already knew. The only thing new is that a branch of the Federal Government confirmed it. I would not be surprised to find that sometime next week they print a retraction saying they made a huge mistake and that Oamacare will actually make money ha! ha!. I also expect to see the head of Health and Human Services suddenly resigns to save face for the three stooges Obama, Reid and Pelosi.

They have been misleading us on this from the beginning. When Senator Wilson called POTUS Obama a liar he was out of line and just plain wrong. He was wrong because when POTUS Obama said illegal immigrants would not have access to Obamacare he was telling the truth, but not giving us the whole picture. If they succeed in ramming Obamacare down our throats, they will tackle Immigration Reform in the not to distant future. Guess what? Most of those 12 million illegal immigrants will become U.S. Citizens and be eligible for Obamacare. The salt in the wound on this is that at the time POTUS Obama said they would not be eligible for Obamacare he was well aware of the intent to give them all amnesty, so he knowingly made a misleading statement and Congress knew this as well. This is what Senator Wilson should have questioned POTUS Obama on instead of calling him an outright liar. POTUS Obama to his credit (never said the man was stupid) did not engage Wilson in a debate about being called a liar or it is very well possible that Wilson would have been able to expose him on national TV.

POTUS Obama built his campaign on misleading the American Public. He said "Hope" and "Change." However he never said what we could "hope" for or what "change" he would make. He said he would "reshape" America. He never said what shape we would be in when he was done with us. 2010 to get rid of Reid can't come quick enough for the people in Nevada. 2012 can't come quick enough to get rid of the Misleader In Chief.

A great clip about CRA and how the Democrats got us into the financial crisis then defended it by grilling the regulator who blew the whistle..4 years before the bottom dropped out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4A0RuXhnQA

A harbinger for healthcare? Personally I know I can sue an insurance provider and win if I am right...How are you going to sue the government.

I honestly hope that this so called nin com poop congress takes away ALL tax exemptions, including the home mortgage interest...We will see how much you all really whine then. Also I hope that they institute a value added tax so you can finally pay a tax on the computers that you all whine on.Insurance across state lines don't mean squat, and never will because people do that now. If hospitals didn't RENT personnel from overblown temp agencies who also gets a cut, it wouldn't be so bad. If a ER nurse makes 50K how much does the agency make. They dont do that for nothing

ACORN used the government funds to register folks.

Gus - Registering folks to vote is hardly a subversive activity. If you tell me they were helping to register fictitious people, or people who had no right to vote, I'd say that is worth investigating.

It really is a moot point today; if you thought the Democrats were not going to win big in 2006 and 2008, than you were deluding yourself. The state of the economy and of the two wars being fought at the time gave people a lot of reasons to vote for the out-of-power party. If you add Hurricane Katrina and the Ambramoff scandal, it is almost a wonder you can find a Republican in Washington. ACORN had very little to do with it.

But what goes around, comes around, and the Democrats are already losing [have lost?] touch with the American people, just as the Republicans did. I expect that in next year's congressional elections the GOP will make serious inroads in both houses of congress.

This is probably a good thing. More was accomplished under the Clinton presidency, when he was forced to work with the opposition party in Congress than prior to 1994, when the Democrats were ascendant. And the Republicans' our way or the highway attitude from 2001 - 2006 brought us nothing good.

Despite the "Odumba" epithets one sees here, Barack Obama is a smart man. He will learn from his mistakes. Maybe the best years of his presidency will be from Jan., 2011 onwards.

dman...

exactly what my implication is! As far as a balanced congress to the Presidency, I think Obama has an agenda in mind regardless of who sits where. He is steeped in his beliefs... and will use any other type of authority to circumvent the system. As it is right now... he has his liberal buddies ramming his agenda at us!

I see that the next Presidential election will bring a change in his ticket for a second term. No Biden... and possibly Winfrey as his running mate.

Not too far fetched... especially with her recent announcement.

Every President, since and including George Washington, has had an agenda. The ruthless pursuit of an "Agenda", you attribute to Obama, was also attributed to Bush. Thus far, I haven't seen any end runs around the Constitution by Obama.

BTW: I'll repeat my initial point that ACORN helping to register voters is hardly subversive, unless it involves fraud, and ACORN had very little to do with last November's election results. That result was largely due to the deep animosity many middle-of-the-road voters felt regarding the failed policies of the Bush administration, which I will not enumerate a second time.

What the Democrats forget, and what the Republicans forgot, is that these swings in voter sentiment do not mean people are embracing a new liberal or a new conservative ideology. It just means they are pretty sick and disgusted with the current batch of clowns.

The lesson could have been learned in 1994, or in 2006. I suspect a new opportunity to learn, a teachable moment, if you will allow, will occur in November of next year.

dman...

The agenda that Mr Obama has is more subversive than any I have seen. Maybe you think that the people he embraces and surrounds himself with are harmless, and maybe you cannot see how things have been shaping up for the last 50 years... but I have watched the current bunch try to implement government control of our lives through means that I can only label as anti-American.

"Teachable moments" are full of cr@p at this point. The lives of masses are on the fringe and the agenda from this government is only going to make it worse. To say that people are not grasping a philosophy is partially true. But it's about time that they do because a-moral approaches do not work!

I tend to believe (and hope) that many are beginning to wake-up to Conservatism and common sense.

As far as Acorn goes... they are in the pockets of the liberal left and I would wager to believe that they worked very hard to only register those that agree with the liberal left... on our tax dollars.

I do not think that they won the election for Obama... John McCain ran a lousy campaign, and we the people voted for the wrong guy!

and maybe you cannot see how things have been shaping up for the last 50 years...

Your memory must be better than mine. I thought Obama has only been in office for about 11 months.

This discussion would be easier if you focused your remarks on the specific programs and how they tie to a subversive goals.

If it is about health care reform, I too disagree with much that is proposed. But I don't see a government run or controlled insurance program as part of a plan to turn us all into followers of Chairman Mao.

Regarding your ACORN remark, to believe something is not to demonstrate its truth. It is probable that the goal of ACORN was to register as many probable Democrats as possible and that they did so by targeting certain demographic groups. It is highly unlikely that they quizzed prospective voters about their voting preferences and walked away from anybody who said they would vote Republican.

I thought that McCain's campaign was ok. He just seemed too old (which he is) for the job and he was too closely tied to the war in Iraq and the Bush Doctrine of preemptive wars.

You think McCain ran a decent campaign? One of the first that has thrown that one out!

And what does the last 50 years have to do with the Obama doctrine? It's the epitomy of what the far left has been planting and growing for that time period.

And ACORN... c'mon!

Dead end....

Gus, McCain just was not going to win. He had too much of an uphill climb, being of George W. Bush's party, being for the war in iraq (i do admire his adherence to principal), his being just about 70 years old ...and looking it.

Sarah Palin didn't help. For a lot of middle-of-the-road voters, the thought of that shoot from the hip, yahoo being one very shaky heartbeat from the presidency was not a pretty thought.

Later dude.

Madison from NY's first post needs repeating: "A new report from government economic analysts at the Health and Human Services Department found that the nation's $2.5 trillion annual health care tab won't shrink under the Democratic blueprint that senators are debating. Instead, it would grow somewhat more rapidly than if Congress does nothing.

More troubling was the report's assessment that the Democrats' plan to squeeze Medicare for $493 billion over 10 years in savings relies on specific policy changes that "may be unrealistic" and could lead to cuts in services."

Maybe it's a "new" report, but this info has been given by many on the right, including many on the vine for MONTHS!

WAKE UP, Obama lovers! This guy is ten times worse for the country than Bush EVER was!

WHAT A SURPRISE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll bet not one teenager who avidly supported and voted for Mr. Obama will even have read this news report. Or much cares what's in the report.

Thanks for your help, kiddies.

This guy is ten times worse for the country than Bush EVER was!

Sure he is. That's why at the end of the Bush years we had the worst recession in at least 30 years, 2 wars, the city of New Orleans devastated because FEMA was unprepared to respond and North Korea armed with nuclear weapons.

If God himself had been elected President last November, he could not have fixed all the problems left by Bush in 11 months. Obama? He may or may not be up to the challenge; I too have my reservations. But worse than Bush? A drug addled teenager, wandering into the White House by accident could not be worse than George W. Bush. It is just not possible.

Dman, you must be one of Obama's supporters with no clue and just want to stay at home and collect your free healthcare and let everyone else pay for your existence. What a shame

Dissapointed - I've worked all my life, and the economy-willing, I expect to continue working for some time. Your response is too typical of many on this board: if anyone disagrees with you make insulting references regarding their personal life and attitudes. Do anything except argue facts and issues.

I'm not impressed.

No, it won't grow more rapidly if congress would do the "right thing" and start over by working with the Republicans and doing this in parts. Like allowing consumers to buy across state lines, TORT reform and clean up the waste in medicare and medicaid that exists now. Start with a few concrete ideas and instead of overhauling the whole system, things could be added as needed.

Just got home from my doctor half hour ago. First thing they told me was if you think things are bad now, and you think there is going to be a free ride, then you are mistaken. This is not the kind of reform they were hoping for themselves or their patients.

Pat

Your preaching to the choir.If congress had any respectability,they would have started with baby steps and addressed this like adults.But instead they put a wall down the aisle and proceeded like children.

You are correct dcisshovelready.

Amen all! It's not that the current system doesn't have some major flaws, but expanding it without addressing them helps almost no one, and will cost us all.

There are a lot of reported poll results regarding the public's opinions on health care reform. I wonder if any of them has an "anger index", to help politicians understand the degree of displeasure people feel about this program.

If, on every home computer there were a button which, when pressed, would transmit a tiny electric shock to all the chairs in the Senate and the House of Representatives, it might give them a better sense of what is going on in this country. At the very least it would get them off their fat asses.

dci...

You are correct..."Onward We Go...".

'The Charge of the Dumb Brigade.'

"Ours is not to reason why. Ours is not to make reply..."

This president will burn this country down to get this costly, messy, and both financially and medically unpredictable health care disaster passed and he will take you, me, and everyone with two dollars in our pockets along for the ride whether we want to go or not.

their only goal is to recreate amerika in their image........zealots are devoid of the ability to employ judgement.

Give me enough money and I can get you reports stating that war is good for your health, that the earth is indeed flat, or wingnuts are sane, intelligent, and loving people. I would be willing to bet that a group of insurance lobbyists were instrumental in making this report.

If there's one thing I've learned in this pay to play government: There is always money for the programs you are for, but never enough for the programs you don't. So, don't get you panties all wadded up over some report some one wanted put out for an obvious reason.

One thing you can count on: The wingnuts hate government and polls unless they reflect their views, then both are relevant, otherwise they're irrelevant.

Sorry to tell you awfton but blocking opposing view points doesn't mean they're wrong. Just like "Man Made Global Warming" being exposed by climate gate the truth is starting to emerge about this disaster of a bill and it's not pretty. Plenty of issues need to be addressed but that doesn't mean expanding our current broken system is going to help people.

awfton,

I'm just curious, did you read the article? This is from an EXPERIENCED government agency. They clearly explain that they used data that Obama and Congress did not. And now we know why they didn't use it.

Why is it so hard for you to let your idiological beliefs not override your brain? Not an insult, really, but the facts are there, and this bill is bad. The GAO and CBO have said the same thing, again government agencies! In fact Pelosi ordered the CBO to "revamp" their report, or basically, to lie to the people.

This wasn't a poll. This wasn't from the wing-nuts. This was a government report, based on experience and facts. Something this bill never took into account.

So here's my thought. Let's not scrap health care reform. Let's scrap this bill, and write one that will provide care for those who need it and cannot afford it, and regulate the industry to stop the abuses and make it better and more cost effective. Why are the liberal wing-nuts so against this?

They're too busy having an O-gasm over on the other thread about Obama saying "Republicans want America to fail".

But,but, but more people will be covered you racist neocon!!!LOL

Blame Bush, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck...They are the liars....oh wait, nevermind...

Yeah and Joe Wilson too. Wait a minute, they removed the citizenship verification from the Senate bill, my bad.

It's Bush's fault!!

Gang, Remember in '92 Hillary Clinton got the call on healthcare reform, spent 2 years on it, and it didn't go. Now maybe, they have the votes to get it through in some form. That's the issue. What and how?? We're not yet out of a deep recession. BO is spending bucks like he can make money. Oops, he can. Inflation has yet to knock on the door, but it will. Interest rates will go back up. Oil will hit $150 a barrel again. What if it did now?? Lieberman may have a point. Now is not the time to be doing these things. It's not GWB's fault. Remember Clinton had trouble in Bosnia and Mogadishu. BO can end Iraq and Afganistan right now---today. He has the power to just say it's over----we're coming home. There should be no rush on healthcare reform and I don't want the government saying what businesses stay or go.

Oh, and according to the White House's own economists this bill will lower the growth rate in healthcare costs by 1% per year after the initial increase, during the first three years before the benefits go into effect but where the taxes and fees are collected. Given that this whole thing came about because of the 10-18% annual increases, the increases will now only be 9-17% after the reform fully kicks in. OMG, who are they kidding. (sarcasm) I know that I want to be mandated by Congress to pay 200-500/month from my own pocket (including money not received because my premiums are employer paid) with a 9-17% increase year after year after year after - oh, you get the point.

I am surprised they actually put this story out..... This will be terribly damaging but I think they dont care and will pass this anyway....Many of these people will sacrifice their careers for Obama and a chance at "history" for the Liberals...

Funny that none of them are anywhere to be heard huh?

Crickets....

One man's opinion was----they're not going to be there in 2010-----they know it-----so, they'll push it through anyway they can. Pelosi has been there since 1987, I believe. Gaycisco keeps putting her back. With a dabble of luck, the Repubs may regain a majority in the house; then, she would lose her speaker's seat. I believe the Dems think this is their best shot at healthcare and it'll be another 15-20 years before they get another whack at it. I don't read too many comments from folks who like what's coming down. Is there a silent majority or are we it? They say that the 25% of the people that vote speak for everyone else. I don't think, if he runs, BO's internet machine will get him back in.

It's always good news when they're at home and not in session. It's called "damage control". LOL

I wish we could pay these congressmen to stay home 365 days a year. Everytime they get together they just mess up the country more!

Madison-

Careful, the Lib's would call you a fear-mongerer, if they actually were on here to comment.............LOL

Where's that joulesbeef cat when you need him?

Amen to that!! Impeach them all!

Change your pants.... The CBO report isn't out yet,,, They are the ones with the PH D's

Jim, do you really think that the people in the Department of Health and Human Services don't have advanced degrees? And the degree is abbreviated PhD.

Oh Jimmy boy-

The CBO focuses strictly on the impact to the federal deficit...This report reflects the increases in costs to both the public and private sectors....

Go take a nap......

Thank you Out!!

Department of Health and Human Services or Congress/Politicians.

Hmmm, who would I guess has the experience, knowledge and dedication to health and human services....

Tough one, perhaps all you liberals can explain to me how the people who spent their careers doing this could know LESS than politicians who have sold us out a long time ago.

I believe the HHS report. I have no trust in Congress or their minions.

Jim,

there is a CBO report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html
(Washington Post, hardly a neocon news outlet).

Under questioning by members of the Senate Budget Committee, Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, said bills crafted by House leaders and the Senate health committee do not propose "the sort of fundamental changes" necessary to rein in the skyrocketing cost of government health programs, particularly Medicare. On the contrary, Elmendorf said, the measures would pile on an expensive new program to cover the uninsured.

Hank they will pass it to prove a point. The bill does not have to be good, work, actually lower coast, or fix any other problems that it is being touted to fix. They will pass it to prove they can get it done.

Single payer? We have that now. You're the payer. Now shut up and get to work making the money to cover our bills.

Companies getting rich....on average on an industry-average of a 2% margin? Quit taking for granted the s#it that the state media have been feeding you. It's not cheap for the private sector to insure the spectrum and it would be an absolute financial disaster if the state were to control healthcare. Every time I read the Constitution, it says nothing about a right to healthcare so I depend upon my own capabilities to insure coverage for my family and me. Why the hell do the socialists think that they can just keep creeping into my wallet to steal a few more of my hard-earned dollars?

HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT ITS A PRIVLEGE...kind of like home ownership and look at how the Democrats screwed the pooch on that one. Handing them 1/6th of the economy is like handing the drunk the keys to your car...this will only end in tears.

Yeah like tax cuts 01 and 02, Afgahnistan and Iraq wars, Medicare part D all done by the GOP between 01-06.

ndbltwy,

So those things were wrong and shouldn't be done. That is your reasoning for accepting another bad plan? Really, does that make any sense? How is that helping fix anything? Just another item to add to your list of bad decisions.

ndbltwy,

and don't forget you had the lowest unemployment up until the last month of bushes term. Get a basic understanding of economics. Kensyian econ only works well in a totalitarian state. He said so himself.

Ken unemployment lower under Clinton and Bush had the worse job creating record of any president. PS stop making up quotes

Making up quotes? I guess you're not as well read as you think.

Amen Chuck, are you running for office somewhere? Maybe what we need are a net set of politicians that are not in anybodies pocket. I am actually considering running in my state, it is time for the revolution.

...and no longer allow anyone receiving welfare to vote until they are off welfare.

Ken-974111 #20.2,

If they aren't paying income taxes, they shouldn't be allowed to vote !

That's why we are where we are today, the "takers" are now a majority, so they can keep elected officials in power who will keep giving them their freebies. Is it any wonder that the US is going downhill ever faster ?

Buy your new lottery ticket today. Win a chance to see a real doctor. If you lose lick the back of the card to get your dose of poisen.

Gordon,

I agree.

SeattleDad we had good journalist at one time. What we have now are only good for opinion not reporting. They seem to view facts as getting in the way of the report they want to give. Facts have become minor details to avoid.

No kidding Gary. Somehow I think these journalists nowadays start out with whatever conclusion they want you to have, and build a story backwards from that.

Wouldn't you like to be in those meeting when the boss comes in with the headlines assigned to them from the white house. Now get started writing up stories for those!

Shinamoo,

We could develop groups of people on boards like this to start investigating each of the democrats. Find out what they have been investing in, what legislation gives them an insider advantage if they pass it, etc... Then submit the findings to Fox news to get aired out.

Any volunteers for the Pelosi's, Reids, etc...

I suspect there is rampant insider trading by spouses etc... Also its a direct conflict of interest for many of these politicians to get huge speaking fees from companies they pass legislation to help.

Really, think about how many of these crooks probably shorted Lehman once the decision was made behind closed doors to let them go under. Then they waited for people to panic sell Goldman. Then the politicians and their spouses, friends, family members etc, buy up Goldman stock at the bottom, and announce they will bail them out and the stock goes way back up to where it is today.

We could probably just start by finding out who is holding Goldman stock and when they bought it. And who sold Lehman stock and when.

There are just so many opportunities.

We could work in small groups, share information and plan the next research to collect on these people.

I thought Obama was against "cutting deals" with Special Interests...

LMAO

...a loss is a loss...until there is health care reform in coverage and delivery...don't hold your breath...the WH and Congress are too deep into satisfying special interest groups... to do anything meaningful...

If this thing passes it will be both a loss for Obama and America.

Should have been done correctly in the first place.

Look at all of the wasted time and money.

Congress fiddling whilst America burns.

So if I were the White House, I'd ask the republicans to put forth their legislation in the matter for public review. Unless they are beholding to the special interests also.

...they are...just like the Democrats... and Obama...

I'm getting tired of hearing that the Rep. should put forth their bill. They have many times and every time it was crushed by the Dems. The cost of their bill was something like 60B as judged by the CBO. So then they tried amendments, over 200 of them, all voted down by the Dems.

Stop blaming the Reps for this mess. It is the Dems. that have the majority and can't get their crap together. They are the ones doing back room buy offs like some kind of mafia, they are the ones selling votes for slush money, they are the ones that are stopping the bill dead in it's tracks because pharma is getting scared that they will lose 100B if this passes. They are the ones that want to get anything passed no matter what kind of mess it is just so they can get something for Obama to sign.

Both sides are crap and need to be voted out, but don't just blame one side or the other, there is plenty of blame to go around.

Hey Eric-

Maybe this time around Obama will actually get involved...instead of letting Reid and Pelosi destroy the country.... He has lost this "historic" battle because he has been on the sidelines. Its his "dream" to pass this, you would think he would be more involved....

If Obama gets involved and the bill is as economically as disastrous as the reports indicate, he will get the BLAME, something he's never been willing to risk, or he wouldn't have voted "present" all the time. Eric is upset that the righties don't support health care or jobs. I suppose I'm one of those "righties" and I support both and will throw the environment in the mix too, but not at the risk of our entire economy. What offends me is the lefties who are so anxious to push their agenda that they would force something through that they have been told repeatedly would ruin us and simply refuse to listen or consider that they might be wrong.

First do no harm. That's a key part of the Hippocratic Oath. Clearly, this bill does harm. It must die.

Once this abomination is killed, Congress can get to work on real health care reform. Instead of messing about with insurance, Congress needs to cut to the heart of the reasons for high health care costs. Those are excessive doctor fees, grossly obscenely excessive hospital charges, monopolistic pricing by drug dealers, and third party payers distorting the market for medical care.

The solution to all of those is a free and open competitive market with no restraints of trade (private or government), full and complete disclosure of pricing, and open competition by the health care industry for health care customers. The medical marketplace should be strictly open bid cash and carry. An open competitive marketplace will drive down prices.

The cost of their bill was something like 60B as judged by the CBO

That was 60 billion more than the Dems bill and only covered 3 million more than covered now, but what do expext from a 20 page bill. The GOP hahahahahaha!!!

Eric, you are misguided. Everything this Congress and President is doing is stopping the private sector from creating jobs.

Ken last I looked jobs were being lost at a rate of 700,000/month when Bush left. November 09 11,000 lost. Looks like Bush was the job killer!

Bush.........Obama. Repub..........Democrat. Who cares which party! Each has knuckleheads in Congress more vested in their own interests, Not those of the American people.

I'd like to see where he got the 700000 jobs lost a month under Bush...Oh that must have been in November and December of last year when business people realized the DNC was going to "fix" the economy...Just like they will "fix" health care. As a business owner I will tell you if they pass this crap and Cap and Tax too there will be a bloodbath