I am sure that the occupier in the white house is already working to have that silenced..............

clarke

Have you read the CBO letter?

No.

You should. It was just released.

clarke-

I have a great health care plan, and I just paid it for 2010. It wasnt an "astonishing" increase of 25-30%, like the fear mongerer Obama has claimed, it was 3%. No big deal.

My issue has never been with reforms of any kind, I think they are necessary. What I do have an issue with is the egregious manner in which our elected leaders are conducting their business. No, it is nothing new, but it has never reached this level...

The debt will be staggering, anyone that doesnt think that is foolish but people just dont want to believe that they might have been misled.

No one can honestly, including you, look at this bill and say that it is the right thing to do, financially.

Most on this blog are only here to engage in a pissing contest, and that is too bad. It is a direct result of their own lack of interest in electing leaders.

With that Clarke, I wish you and your family a merry christmas.....

Passing despite the fact that two thirds of the populace have stated again and again they don't want it. And during double digit unemployment and a failing economy.

And what's humorous is the libs can't see that this is nothing but a giant present to the insurance industry. Why else would Obama be the second largest recipient of medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance lobbyists contributions (after Clinton) unless he planned to pay them back for their "generosity" with interest with this bill?

From politifact.com:The next (after Clinton)most popular recipient of health care industry funds was Barack Obama, who pulled in $2.2 million, or 19 percent of the total.

You libs have been had...bad.

They double counted the savings, just like with the jobs "saved or created". CBO states it is going to COST $$ not Save $$$.

clarke ong,

Please read the letter then tell me how the President will be able to keep his promise that this legislation will be "revenue neutral"?

Oh, and to use a much bandied about phrase these days....your choice regarding a person's ability to be fiscally responsible and a stooge of the health insurance industry is a false choice!

Read, think, then speak....too bad the Senate hasn't read this legislation or thought about its consequences....they just like to speak.....

'Twas the nightmare before Christmas . . .

I will read the letter.

ANOTHER ATTACK on the American people, take away our rights like sharp razors slicing into our souls.

SAY NO to this crazy "health care BILL" because that is what it will end up being, a huge bill for the Americans to pay.

I for one will NOT BUY health insurance from the government. And if someone comes knocking on my door to arrest me for NOT buying it, they will have their own NEW medical bills instantly.

...and all through the land,

People said "what's that in my pocket?"

Oh, it's the government's hand.

The letter doesn't say it adds to the deficit, it says that the savings are overstated. Quite a different thing.

..when up from the hill

arose a great clatter

and much to my anger

the government just got fatter!!

I read the letter, Clarke. Read the letter, THEN do a little math. Come on, I know you can.

Summary:

Liberal math. Take money out of your left pocket, put it in your right pocket and count it as double.

Go ahead, Democrats, pass this. It's not deficit neutral, it does not cover everyone, the $250 billion "doctor fix" is STILL not included, it may cover abortion (despite an existing Federal law prohibiting that), it WILL cover illegal aliens by not providing guarantees that they're NOT covered. It is a massive gift to the insurance companies and pharma, it will result in millions of people getting priced OUT of the market, and create an entitlement that will burden our economy until it crashes under it's own weight.

Nevermind the three major constitutional issues:

The Cornhusker Caper, wherein Nebraska is exempt IN PERPETUITY from funding their portion of the unfunded Medicaid mandate, the other 49 states will just pick that up for them, AND BC/BS in Nebraska will be exempt from taxes ever other BC/BS will have to pay.

Is it constitutional for the government to require the citizens of this country to purchase something to remain citizens in good standing? The Democrats don't care.

The Democrats CANNOT enact a change in Senate rules without a 2/3's vote to cloture. A change in Senate rules in buried in this bill, that would make it virtually impossible for any future Congress to amend the Medicare oversight board this bill establishes. They are, unconstitutionally, trying to set at least part of this disaster in stone.

Yep, you go right ahead with that, Democrats.

DB- HAAA! I like that...

"...and all through the Whitehouse. Not a realist was lurking, they ALL had sold out..."

Hopefully others join in; there has to be some solace in this somewhere...

This will truly be looked back on as one of those "what in the HELL were they thinking" moments in history. Immense, no.... a BOOK'S worth of legislation passed, loopholes galore, back-door policies soon to come, caving to big pharma, no REAL reforms, no regulations across state borders or ANY sound, money or life saving regulations, no cost controls, illegal promises to CERTAIN senators (that will hopefully be challenged in the highest courts), no TORT REFORMS of any kind, coverage for illegals soon to come, millions STILL to be uninsured, debt upon interest of debt that NONE can afford, forced purchasing of insurance for UNDEREMPLOYED middle class workers WHILE the "poor" get more for free (as if that wasn't already the case; what the heck was all that 'no insurance for the poor' anyways, they WERE covered).

I'm sure I've missed a few things, but that's the big picture, really. History and fame. Go down in the history books as accomplishing "this"; but, history will judge this garbage HARSHLY, as will the inevitable consequences.

"Ohh... there's only a few right wing nutjobs that oppose this... the majority of Americans support it... you right wingers don't WANT health care reform... where were all of you, blah-blah no input, not working on this bill.... pockets of the insurance companies" and on... and on.... and on...

For those that don't understand TRUE reform as compared to THIS, perhaps someone else can explain it better... but, I'm at a loss for words. 2K + pages of NOTHING but financial misery, for the sake of passing SOMETHING, and NO ONE........ NO ONE .... knows what's really in the thing.

Failure for the sake of ego... maybe we should all be glad they DIDN'T work on theconomy or jobs; could've been much worse.

Sorry, Colonel and DC is--- typed a long post, beat me to it. At least SOME fun can be had, albeit to hide the anguish.....

When what to my wondering eyes should appear

but a government letter that stated quite clear,

"ObamaCare rules from the West to the East,

your care will be rationed, your income decreased..."

Pragmatic

I read the letter, it says that the savings are overstated, not that it will add to the deficit.

with a "make no mistake" and a "let me be clear"

I knew that, unfortunately, Obama was here.

He said "you will fund it, you'll do as I say,

10 thousand and two people die everyday..."

The masses rebelled, but Obama shrugged like a jerk

gave more to big pharma and sent his henchmen to work.

The lobbyists, insurance folk and yes, high paid lobbyists as well

with no reforms whatsoever he's sent us to hell.

None of what Congress is doing matters, and it wouldn't be any different with a Republican majority. Basically, nobody will get taken care of, and there isn't a soul who posted above, or out there in the public, that will do anything about it. Basically because nobody really cares enough to do anything about it. I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just talking about all the faux outrage at Bush/Obama/Congress/banks/whomever.

clarke

Where do you apply the overstated savings?

But lo, what is this? a light at the end of the tunnel?

The supreme court has ruled "money's not free, taxes not your personal funnel".

The deceit was clear, the bill over turned

and for the next 3 years, the administration was burned.

I believe the letter is talking about those savings being applied to Medicare trust fund to keep it solvent for longer.

So he sprang in his limo, gave his driver a glance

and away he did race while exclaiming these rants

"I'm not a lame duck and I'll make you all pay"

But you already have, since Inauguration day.

So to all of the libs I can only refrain,

"You screwed us this time. Please don't do it again!"

clarke

From the CBO's letter to Sessions:

The improvement in Medicare’s finances would not be matched by a corresponding improvement in the federal government’s overall finances. CBO and JCT estimated that the PPACA as originally proposed would add more than $300 billion ($246 billion + $69 billion + interest) to the balance of the HI trust fund by 2019, while reducing federal budget deficits by a total of $130 billion by 2019. Thus, the trust fund would be recording additional saving of more than $300 billion during the next 10 years, but the government as a whole would be doing much less additional saving.

According to this part of the letter, it pertains to the deficit.

I thought of the Nantucket theme, and started

"there once was a man from Chigago..."

But, I figured that's certainly good for a banning for the day at least, so..... back to Christmas themes.....

"Obama hell...Obama hell... bankrupting all the way...."

Could you rewrite that in a Haiku please?

...Why anyone believe anything these people say? HEY...

Obama hell.... Obama hell.... don't let common sense get in the way....

"Republicans are just seeking "an opportunity to mislead and distort," Nelson contended. " Senator Nelson needs to go..he actually condones back room dealing...at the expense of the people of this country. But then so do everyone of the other senators and representatives . None of them are above reproach. Am not sure which one is worse...wall street for the money they hand out to congress to get what they want ,,and do,,,or a congress that is so crooked it can do nothing right for the people that elect them.

Hmmmmmmmm !!!!!

Forcing almost every American to buy Health Insurance---Wow ought to be the Health Insurance Industries Dream come true !!!

Now for the most important comment----As I have repeated numerous times, It is now time for most of you to go out and Google--"10th Amendment Nullification Laws / Bills" passed by the States. Review the power of the States to OPT-OUT of any Federal Government Bill that is not enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. We don't have to accept this Federal C--P !!. Quit Whining and start reading and acting--contact your State Legislators.

Remember the Third Great Lie ! "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

The Colonel-964761

And what's humorous is the libs can't see that this is nothing but a giant present to the insurance industry.

Yes, it is a present to the insurance companies, but only for the time being. You see, the insurance companies will initially make a lot of money on this with the government forcing Americans to purchase coverage for them. But over time the Cloward-Piven effect will come down on the insurance companies.

Once people with start flooding the system they will be paing out more than they take in and will collapse under the weight the government places upon them. When that happens, say hello to 100% government issued socialist healthcare. This is what the Libs want. They are doing to insuranced what they did to the banking industry via government mandates. Only this time, there will be no bailouts for healthcare insurance providers. It will be all out nationalization just as the Liberals desire.

Democrats begged to differ. "Senate Democrats are poised to pass historic health reform legislation on Thursday that will extend affordable, quality coverage to millions of Americans in a fiscally responsible way. Our bill saves lives, saves money and saves Medicare," Senate leaders said in a statement.

Even without this quote, it is obvious that posters on today's thread know this statement is Big Time BS!!!!!!!!

Only the crooks pushing this will benefit, not Americans.

It does not say that. It speaks only about trust fund accounting and budgetary accounting and moving between accounting systems it does not deny a savings only where it resides.

JKHayes

"Obama hell...Obama hell...we're in bankruptcy

Next year all my money's going to the RNC

Dashing to my doc because my back is sore

crap look at that line, it stretches out the door

Here's my voucher, nurse. I swear I'm a citizen

Yes I'll sit and wait another six hours, what then?...

O.K.-

Dashing through America, making sure it's just my say

Fullfilling my ego prophecies, laughing all the way....

I saw Republicans beating Santa Claus

Underneath Emergency Room lights...............

We'll just have to see them in court. There are just too many violations to the US Constitution for this to fly. We could also see some criminal charges levied.

hey clark get a life you call any one here a commie the only commie is you..if you think your so called obama and these dumocraps are so great you are like the other axs sniffers as they are..obama is a HIPOCRATE AND HE TAKES ABOUT THE WASTE OF TAX PAYERS MONEY..this so called deathbill is a nothing but a big fat tax bill..so clark eat with the pigs...

And to Santa the liberals did say

we must take half your reindeers away

so just tighten your belt

while we redistribute your wealth!!

The CBO did not take into consideration the bond (or IOU) that the US Treasury must put into the Medicare trust fund when they use Medicare dollars to fund the health care plan. This will add $170 billion to the debt.

Nice prose Rod. You might have a future..............

clarke ong,

Nice try....nice but very weak. The Colonel and Moderation have made the rape of America by the Democratic Congress almost laughable.

What will be laughable is to watch B.O.'s reaction after 2010 elections send him a message. Fraudulent accounting has sent some members of the accounting profession to prison and that is where Reid and Pelosi belong.

Dc and Oldva, thanx for the fun... and Colonel, kudos...

Clarke ong, there has to be truth in the "rhyme" for it to be any fun.... you fail.

Something as completely SKREWED as this supposed bill is, (and yes, BILL is the right word) can't be defended. This isn't opinion, it's fact. If... IF you have the time, please tell ALL OF US exactly what it entails and WHOM it really helps.

Until then, partisan guy....

"Over capitol hill and amongst the lobbyists, to Bammy's house we go...."

Each costs around $1 trillion over 10 years and installs new requirements for nearly all Americans to buy insurance

If the point was to make health insurance accessible to everyone, then I think that I am missing something here. There are already health plans available, aren't there? This just seems to be making it mandatory for every American to purchase one. This really seems to me to be a benefit to the insurance companies. If you can't afford health insurance now, how will making it mandatory make it affordable? Will some liberal please explain that to me. I can't seem to connect the dots here....

The really sad part about all this is the blatant dishonesty being used by the opponents of reform. For example:

The Colonel claims that 60% don't want this bill. Sadly...that is only half the story. If the Colonel were being honest, then he would include the fact that 60% DO want the public option. But instead he would rather mislead the gullible and uninformed into thinking that the bill is too liberal.

And PragmaticToAFault in pretending that the dems accounting is double counting the savings. What the letter ACTUALLY says is that it would be improper to count that $300 billion transfer as savings...but that the $130 billion deficit reduction that the dems are claiming DIDN'T count on that accounting gimmick. Here is the pertiennt paragraph:

"The improvement in Medicare’s finances would not be matched by a corresponding improvement in the federal government’s overall finances. CBO and JCT estimated that the PPACA as originally proposed would add more than $300 billion ($246 billion + $69 billion + interest) to the balance of the HI trust fund by 2019, while reducing federal budget deficits by a total of $130 billion by 2019. Thus, the trust fund would be recording additional saving of more than $300 billion during the next 10 years, but the government as a whole would be doing much less additional saving."

The accounting gimmick the dems are accused of using would be claiming the $300 billion savings to Medicare AND the $130 billion savings to the federal government. But they are SEPARATE NUMBERS. Medicare saves $300 billion (which also represents $300 billion the federal government doesn't have to pay back those years...but will continue to owe) and the federal government will will do much less with only $130 billion in "additional savings".

And of course you have the morons like doubting thomas 1 that claim the 10th Amendment lets states overrule this. The 10th Amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So...is this a power granted by the Constitution to the federal government? Well...the preamble specifically states that the constitution is intended to "promote the general Welfare"...and most reasonable people would consider the peoples health as a major component of the "general welfare".

The fact that the opponents of reform have to engage is such dishonest behavior tells me that the louder they shriek...the better the bill must be.

I think it's time to start holding politicians personally responsible for their lies. If the numbers don't work out they way they say, let them make up the difference.

Obama is a liar. The Senators that voted for this bill are a disgrace. I can't wait until this coming November. I hope they are all kicked out.

They will lie, bride, etc. Anything to get something through. So I hear several states are ticked off they didn't get their fair share of the bribe money from Reid....

The methods that gained passage of the Senate bill should be a shameful message of how this country is truly run. The Administration condemns lobbyists but when the Senate does the very same thing with your money its called leadership.

This country should not accept the immoral and unethical methods in Washington, no matter what bill is being worked on. Our country is sadly broken when this behavior is accepted as the norm. We need government reform...

If it's so wonderful, why are the numbskulls that wrote the legislation so quick to exclude themselves from all it's wonderous glory?

I don't know which one is the bigger HOAX, Obamacare or Cap and Tax?

oldcavscout

Great man. Thanks. I especially loved the "cause I'm the president" line. LOL!

We should have done more with "Nightmare before Christmas...

I had a whole thing about:

"On reid, on Pelosi, On Gethner, on Biden

On Nelson whose vote to get I had to bribe 'em."

Here is what YOUR SENATE is doing to you:

HARRY REID SLIPS IN A BOMBSHELL FOR OBAMACARE FOES
Courtesy of Chuck

American Thinker
December 22, 2009
Rick Moran

What did we ever do to deserve Harry Reid?

When the "manager's amendment" was passed in the dead of night, I pointed out that the wonks had yet to give it a good going over to discern what other surprises might lurk in the convoluted language used to obscure so much in the bill.

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the wonks have not disappointed us.

Buried in the amendment is a bombshell; there will be no way to amend parts of Obamacare. Apparently, Reid wants to make this bill something like a royal decree where no one can change what has already been wrought.

The Weekly Standard blog has the story:

Senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) pointed out some rather astounding language in the Senate health care bill during floor remarks tonight. First, he noted that there are a number of changes to Senate rules in the bill--and it's supposed to take a 2/3 vote to change the rules. And then he pointed out that the Reid bill declares on page 1020 that the Independent Medicare Advisory Board cannot be repealed by future Congresses: there's one provision that I found particularly troubling and it's under section c, titled "limitations on changes to this subsection."

there's one provision that i found particularly troubling and it's under section c, titled "limitations on changes to this subsection."

and i quote -- "it shall not be in order in the senate or the house of representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection."

this is not legislation. it's not law. this is a rule change. it's a pretty big deal. we will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law.

i'm not even sure that it's constitutional, but if it is, it most certainly is a senate rule. i don't see why the majority party wouldn't put this in every bill. if you like your law, you most certainly would want it to have force for future senates.

i mean, we want to bind future congresses. this goes to the fundamental purpose of senate rules: to prevent a tyrannical majority from trampling the rights of the minority or of future co congresses.

Get that? No repeal, no amendments, no nothing. That part of Obamacare is as set in stone as the idea that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It is unalterable - which, of course, means the entire bill is off limits.

The goal is to guard against the possibility that the GOP may win back the House and Senate some day and may wish to repeal or drastically alter Obamacare. In the dead of night, Harry Reid has turned the United States from a constitutional republic into a banana republic monarchy.

Dizzy, that's ding-dong logic. Lawyers do much dishonesty, no doubt.... but, there's no exaggeration in saying that at least 1,000 could have a field day with that "10th Amendment" arguement.

What you're saying then, is that the Fed has the final say? The people don't count as the supposed elected representatives of the supposed republic have the final say, even though in the BEST of circumstances Congress is sorely divided, partisan, thus ineffective as a functioning unit, wants you and others to believe that NOTHING in the 2,000 PLUS PAGES of this BOOK eludes them, they understand ALL WORDING, ANY POSSIBLE LOOPHOLES, embodies what is TRUE reform, tort reform, reining in big pharma, allowing---no, LEGISLATING-- that insurance co's compete across state lines.....

Yet, this is the Republicans fighting ANYTHING done by the new Democratic administration. Even though many, including myself, don't see much good coming from that corner in the past decade or so, I'd gladly take that back over this debauchery....

Those that defend this travesty by citing past travesties are only grasping at last straws in an attempt to defend their party blindly.... face it. Obama was more than just a huge PC mistake, done at the right time for the wrong reasons...... it's costing us BIG TIME... and at a time when we can't afford it, not that it should EVER have to be tolerated.

Can ANY actually cite any real reforms in this? Can any really remember the campaign promises, the wording in them?

I'd be more than thrilled to get behind the first president of color, it should be a milestone and an end to an ugly era. But this, THIS was orchestrated, haphazzard, and the results are dangerous, not just haphazzard.

To a large extent, this wasn't only an example of the reverse-racism pendulum swinging too far in order to APPEAR non-racist, but a politco-planned movement of BOTH PARTIES to continue business as usual.....

keep 'em distracted and run them through. Conquer by dividing. Focus on the trees, not the forrest.

Those that would bash Bush; what's changed? Not a fan of his, either. But-

"no" to pharmaceutical competition, "no" to tort reforms, "no" to erasing state line insurance blockades, "no" to regulating the industry as a whole TO WHAT THE CONSTITUENTS demand, "no" to increased taxes, "no" to mandated insurance purchase while unemployment and underemployment continue to grow, "no" to JOBS THAT PROVIDE SALARIES AND INSURANCE COVERAGE while continued touting of "creating jobs" (thus creating needs that none can pay for).....

"yes" to insurance lobbyists, "yes" to big pharma and it's continued control, "yes" to China and India on the continued sell-out of American manufacturing (even though our EPA standards blow IC's away), "yes" to expanded government, "yes" to MORE TAXES across the board, "yes" to Un-Constitutional bartering and select state monetary promises, "yes" to complete and utter partisanship, "yes" to ignoring MORE THAN HALF OF AMERICANS THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THIS BILL OR DON'T TRUST THE BACK DOOR LOOPHOLES.....

The list could go on, but the point has been made. Surely this is going to go "so far", but that CONSTITUTUIONALLY has to be it. Snark all you want, THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE LEGALLY BINDING. It can't be; Nelson himself set the stage for that.

Go to Hawaii and make sand castles, think all is well.....

Unpopular insurance company practices such as denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions would be banned.. MEDICARE disallows more Americans than any Private Insurance Companies.. Also Private Insurance Companies are the real winners in this BILL. They will get more people signed up with them.. Pharmaceutical Companies will also be the big winner here.. AMERICA WAKE UP.. CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN and or SENATOR AND TELL THEM NO.. While they are on the Christmas Break.. ONLY YOU CAN STOP THIS..

Both good and bad will come out of this so called Health Care Reform Bill." The good thing is that all bad things insurance companies are doing now will stop or at least become more difficult. Yet another good thing is that once American Taxpayers begin to see just how much the "real" cost of this so called "affordable" health care is, they will get rid of those who rammed it down their throats. Example: The most recent polls in the State of Nevada show that less than 40% of the voters want what Harry Reid is selling as Health Care Reform. Does Harry Reid care what the taxpayers/voters in his state want? Quite apparently by his actions, the answer is NO! Will we reward Harry Reid for his devotion to POTUS Obama and the Democratic party over the wishes of those who put him in office? Hell YES by voting his sorry butt out of office in 2010. I suspect this will be the fate of many Democrat and Republican alike who ignored the wishes of the people that they work for and they will receive a not so subtle reminder in the form of being voted out of office as they come up for re-election. By the time 2012 rolls around we will be getting a very good view of impact the Obama Administration's actions have had on this country and unless things change I suspect we will see a "change" in the White House.

On one thing we can be certain: If and when Obama is not re-elected and he and his party crash in defeat, it will be all Bush's fault!

AMERICA are you AWARE that included in this HEALTHCARE BILL an Organization CALLED ACORN will begin anew to recieve money from YOU THE TAXPAYER..

Oh come, all ye that paid me....

joyful and triumphant

oh come ye, oh come ye, to barack-oh-hem.

You will be rewarded, both pharma and insurance industry.....

So come now and adore me, so come now and adore me, so come now and adore meeeeee, I'll have- nothing - less.

If this bill is so great why did the Democrat senator from Georgia just switch parties?

Dizzykat....There you go again, citing polls that do not exist. A few days ago I called you on this. Show me the poll that shows that American's want a public option. I have not seen a signle one even when asked. Most polls show that Americans want reform, not a public option. That is according to Rasmussen, Gallup, CBS, NBC, American Thinker, and Ipsys, all since December 1. I see on here time and again Dems saying that the majority of Americans want a public option. Yet, when I ask for the proof, no one can provide any.

Secondly, you are quoting the wrong letter. The letter you are quoting is from the original CBO estimate released on December 19. There was a follow up letter released on December 20th... here is the entire letter right from the CBO's own website. Pay attention to the last paragraph. It essentially says the CBO can't estimate if it is possible to reduce medicare costs per the estimate and it is unclear if it will be able to reduce the costs through greater efficiencies in care or less access to care or reduced quality of care.

Essentially the CBO is saying it doesn't know what the affect will be and could lead to less quality care or rationing. Being that this bill is being touted as deficit neutral any increased costs will add to the deficit. So any incorrect estimates as to the growth of medicare costs will lead to incorrect cost estimates of this bill.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10870/12-20-Reid_Letter_Managers_Correction1.pdf

Dear Mr. Leader:

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has discovered an error in the cost estimate released on December 19, 2009, related to the longer-term effects on direct spending of the manager’s amendment to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), Senate Amendment 2786 in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 3590 (as printed in the Congressional Record on November 19, 2009).

Dear M

Correcting that error has no impact on the estimated effects of the legislation during the 2010–2019 period. However, the correction reduces the degree to which the legislation would lower federal deficits in the decade after 2019.

The legislation would establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board, which would be required, under certain circumstances, to recommend changes to the Medicare program to limit the rate of growth in that program’s spending. Those recommendations would go into effect automatically unless blocked by subsequent legislative action. In its original estimate, CBO wrote that: "Such recommendations would be required if the Chief Actuary for the Medicare program projected that the program’s spending per beneficiary would grow more rapidly than a measure of inflation (the average of the growth rates of the consumer price index for medical services and the overall index for all urban consumers)." That statement is correct for fiscal years 2015 through 2019. After 2019, however, the threshold for Medicare spending growth that would trigger recommendations for spending reductions would be higher—specifically, the rate of increase in gross domestic product (GDP) per capita plus 1 percentage point.

With this corrected reading, savings from changes to the Medicare program (along with other changes to direct spending that are not associated directly with expanded insurance coverage) would increase at a rate that is between 10 percent and 15 percent per year during the 2020–2029 period, compared with a growth rate of nearly 15 percent reported in the initial estimate. The long-run budgetary effects of the other broad categories of the legislation are unchanged from the initial estimate. All told, CBO expects that the legislation, if enacted, would reduce federal budget deficits over the decade after 2019

relative to those projected under current law—with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between one-quarter percent and one-half percent of GDP. In comparison, the extrapolations in the initial estimate implied a reduction in deficits in the 2020–2029 period that would be in a broad range around one-half percent of GDP. The imprecision of these calculations reflects the even greater degree of uncertainty that attends to them, compared with CBO’s 10-year budget estimates. The expected reduction in deficits would represent a small share of the total deficits that would be likely to arise in that decade under current policies.

Relative to the legislation as originally proposed, the expected reduction in deficits during the 2020–2029 period remains somewhat larger for the legislation incorporating the manager’s amendment. It also remains that case that most of that difference arises because the manager’s amendment would lower the threshold for Medicare spending growth that would trigger recommendations for spending reductions by the Independent Payment Advisory Board. Such recommendations would be required, in the legislation as originally proposed, if projected growth in Medicare spending per beneficiary exceeded the rate of increase in national health expenditures per capita—and in the legislation incorporating the manager’s amendment, if it exceeded the rate of increase in GDP plus 1 percentage point.

Based on this extrapolation, CBO expects that Medicare spending under the legislation would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 6 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 8 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades (excluding the effect of establishing the Medicare prescription drug benefit). Adjusting for inflation, Medicare spending per beneficiary under the legislation would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 2 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 4 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades. It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or would reduce access to care or diminish the quality of care.

I apologize for any confusion created by this error. If you have any questions, please contact me.

Sincerely,

Douglas W. Elmendorf

Director

Don't know where he got that letter from, it is not on the site.

Why do you think there was a big doing about ammunition this summer. It was all planned from the getgo.They dont want the american citizens to be armed and take matters in their own hands. They have tried to control us and because of everyones wishful thinking instead of seeing what goes on around us, WE ARE SCREWED!!!!!! I am packing my sh@% and moving to Canada. At least there they dont lie to you.

YOU lie. Get your facts straight, buster.

How amazing it is to see the Republicans here in newsvine complain about health care reform when they are the cause of a less than perfect bill. Where were they when this bill was being crafted? They were in the shadows screaming "NO" at every opportunity when they should have been actively engaged in process to ensure every American was benefiting the absolute maximum from this legislation. I think this bill is heading us in the right direction although I would have much preferred a public option to keep costs down. Quit complaining Republicans because you have no one to blame but yourselves.

IF they truly cared about the uninsured, the bill would take effect immediately NOT in 2014. We pay for all those years with no benefit. I think it is so they can play games with balancing the books with more money coming in.

And we get snookered and pay them to do it to us. They are not servants of the people. Our politicians are parasites living off us.

Dee Rice

Are you really as stupid as you write?

Read the piece of s**t before making any comments; I have.

The democrats have kept the Republicans from having any input into this obamation/demonrat healthcareless bill from day 1, the lame stream media have been willing participants in creating the news, not reporting it.

The only bright light will be the elections in 2010; unless Adolph obama changes the voting laws and declares himself president for life.

I think we are in for a very bad time. Working in health care I can assure you no one is ever denied treatment. if this plan passes those of us that are provided a good insurance plan through employers will likely loose that as employers will no longer have to provide us an option. We will be forced to seek out a "lesser" plan, likely pay more money and TRUST THIS we will have taxes raised. NOT THE SOLUTION. go after the drug manufacturers and the welfare system first.

Of all else said, in the end this is really just SOOOO grade school;

"I'm king for the day! I'm king for the day!"

Whether or not this has been done by the other party in the past, really... so proud? A completely partisan, NON-BINDING (if citizens stand together), non-effectual, non-reformist, ego-centric "do nothing but spend tax dollars and FURTHER endanger any meaningful employment" bill was passed, AS PROMISED, by Christmas.

Again, see my post 1.17 above (Dee, especially); WE ALL JUST GOT COAL FOR CHRISTMAS....THE ONES THAT 'WERE BAD' DIDN'T, THEY GOT GOLD.

The last remaining bastion of hope; the House' contradictories and Justice Scalia.

The last time the Senate voted on Christmas Eve was Dec. 24, 1895, on a military affairs bill concerning employment of former Confederate officers, according to the Senate Historical Office.

Democrats also cast several votes Wednesday turning back points of order questioning the constitutionality of requiring most every American to buy health insurance.

Worst crisis since the Civil War! Obama may not get what he wants for Christmas. Better hold a special vote while the people of America are distracted by some silly celebration over some 2000 year old OTHER messiah.

And certainly the senate has no interest in exploring the constitutionality of these new Federal mandates. With their new (we've got a super-majority so we can do whatever we want) mentality, the constitution is just a temporary inconvenience anyway.

It would not surprise me if the Speaker of the House invoked the ASSEMBLY OUTSIDE THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT RULE for the final vote on the UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE BILL. The following concerns the rule:

"The Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader of the Senate or their respective designees, acting jointly after consultation with the Minority Leader of the House and the Minority Leader of the Senate, notify the Members of the House and the Senate, respectively, to assemble at a place outside the District of Columbia if, in their opinion, the public interest shall warrant it."

Source: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:hc1eh.txt

Our Congressional Representatives will probably hide in closets during the Christmas and New Years break if they pass this legislation. They certainly will not want to face their State constituents.

Kathy...

The letter is directly from the CBO website. Go to www.cbo.gov. it is the first link under recent publications. I provided the direct link for everyone to use as well on my previous post.

To all of the Republcans who have no interest in doing anything:

Why didn't your party try to reform healthcare during the Bush years? Answer: Because you losers like the current system.

The only reason that we have shorter waits to see a doctor (than some of the universal Health care countries) is that we have so many people that can't see a doctor. Think about it and do the math: If you don't have many people insured, you don't have to wait as long to see a doctor.

In otherwords: selfish Republicans don't mind that they can see a doctor quicker, because of the misfortune of some poor sucker who has no health coverage. And some of you think you are Christians? Your type is as Christian as a mass muderer. Real Christians share with others and our current healthcare system does not do that.

REPUBLICANS ARE TO BLAME FOR KILLING MANY AMERICANS.

Healthcare is as much of a right as fire and police protection. Your disgusting immoral party doesn't mind that my taxes pay to protect your house and your money, but you don't want your taxes to protect my health.

Republicans are the PRO DEATH party.

oldcavscout- They were on the other side of a closed door because they refused to meaningfully participate in the process, choosing only to derail any attempt to reform health care. That's why they were on the other side of a closed door. The American public deserves better than that.

Jon Jonzz- Typical Republican style, calling people names. That is exactly why your party is in the minority in both the House and Senate.

its gona pass, give it up repubs. the debate is over.

dizzykat - "And of course you have the morons like doubting thomas 1 that claim the 10th Amendment lets states overrule this. The 10th Amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." "

- Typically calling someone a "moron" doesn't violate the constitution, but it might violate the Newsvine Code of Honor.

With that being said, there are other people who actually agree with Doubting Thomas on the constitutionality of this bill (not necessarily because of the 10th Amendment) - especially regarding the $45 million given to Nebraska:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34551523/

You might want to do some research before you resort to name calling.

oldcavscout- Your right about the debt, debt that was inherited from the previous administration and due to the mistakes from the past required added debt to jump start our failing economy. I could care less about parties, in fact, I am registered Republican, however I will never vote Republican again because of the behavior of the the party of late. This bill could have been better and should have been better if everyone could have worked together. No need to lecture on earmarks and bloated bills, this has been going on forever. The finality of the situation is healthcare reform will pass and hopefully can be improved upon in the future in a bipartisan way.

Who can trust Sessions and any other Repubs after all the nonsense they have exhibited?

He is a historical figure, that being the case, you would think he would do remarkable things to ensure a 'George Washington' like stature to put his name in the history books as a picture perfect first, no a complete bumbling failure that deficated all over the American people. Sorry if I offended anyone, just saying....

In addition to violating the 10th amdendment, the payout to Nebraska also may violate Section 8 of the Consitution which enumerates the powers of Congress. This section of the Consitution is where Congress gets it power "To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare." Many people say this gives them the right to impose this bill based on the term general welfare. However, one can look to the case United States v Butler (1936). In this case, the supreme court construed the meaning of "general welfare."

According to this case "The dispute centered on a tax collected from processors of agricultural products such as meat; the funds raised by the tax were not paid into the general funds of the treasury, but were rather specially earmarked for farmers. The Court struck down the tax, ruling that the general welfare language in the Taxing and Spending Clause related only to "matters of national, as distinguished from local, welfare".

It appears to me, that Congress is expressly concerned with the local welfare of Nebraska in this case and cannot fund a states medicaid increases using this case as precedence.

Stupid bill…stupid bill… our country’s ran by some morons

The people cringe; at Barack’s spending binge

Soon we will be poor as sh!t

Pelosi’s nose job… Nelson’s blow job… courtesy of Harry

Hide two different things but both are equally scary

People gasping, the senate grasping at straws but catching air

We all say no, but they don’t really seem to care

Stupid bill…stupid bill… our country’s ran by some morons

The people cringe; at Barack’s spending binge

Soon we will be poor as sh!t

Was there any doubt the CBO numbers and any other numbers coming out for this shaft job were wrong and cooked- nothing Reid has said or done in this has been on the up and up- the only transparency is he is getting paid off big time some where to cover all the bribes he has handed out along with the high handed pressure he has used to coerce anyone that did not parrot his wants.

You can also bet the numbers will be even worse once it is passed and the lies are uncovered- This is the biggest rip off of the people this bunch has gotten thru if it goes and the only thing Reid is really interested in is like Obama and the rest of the left- making history not fixing anything-

The sad thing about the bill they will pass is not that they want Health care Reform it is that with this bill there will be no health care reform at all. The republicans wanted reform, they were willing to comprimise to what the president proclamed in joint session. It is not what the president wanted.

If the president wanted to pass Health Care Reform which he stated in his joint speech, and garrentee a realection he must veto this bill, there by putting the debacle back on Congress and building trust for this president in the eyes of the people, the Senate would then be forced to give the president what he stated was possible during that session. Now, the presiddent was made to look like a liar with congress his taskmaster and the people as the losers.

Constitution schmonstitution, lets fcuk over 90% of Americans and make a name for ourselves in the history books.

I love all the Christmas jingles. Kudos to all. LOL!

Dee Rice How amazing it is to see the Republicans here in newsvine complain about health care reform when they are the cause of a less than perfect bill.I

 think this bill is heading us in the right direction although I would have much preferred a public option to keep costs down. Quit complaining Republicans because you have no one to blame but yourselves.

More democrap lies. Republicans were completely shut out of any part of this entirely democrap authored bill. If you wanted your precious public option so bad then you should ask why your own party removed it from the bill:

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/democrats-strip-singlepayer-healthcare-proposal-health-overhaul/

And I've got dozens of links on this so you can forget it with the "it's the Republicans fault" shee-ite. Everbody knows that's more BS from the left cause now they realize they've got a POS on their hands and want to deflect the blame for their stupidity. If you don't like it blame your president for pushing it, yourself for supporting it, and your party for passing it. It's all on the heads of the libs. You wanted this monstrosity. You got it.

Merry Christmas

The PT BARNUM theory is proven again. There is a sucker born every minute and a Congress waiting to take advantage of them. You know they are lying, and yet you 'believe' them. How STUPID and GULLIBLE can the average 52% voter be?

This healthcare bill is all about controlling-destroying our freedoms. IT IS TIME TO THROW OUT ANYBODY WHO VOTED FOR THIS DEBACLE. PAY NOW, COLLECT IN 5 YEARS. TRICKERY/THIEVERY/BRIBERY

Time for the Confederacy to rise again.

The Colonel- Merry Christmas to you too. I am happy this will bill pass because I happen to care about my fellow Americans. No need to proclaim how the poor Republicans were shut out. We all know what really happened and why it happened. Go cry in your beer and let the election go. It's over.

2.5 trillion is the real cost.

I wish someone would push Harry Reid out the doorstep and have him land on his head. It certainly wouldn't make a difference for a man with sh.t for brains.

Hmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!

By the way Promote is not the same as Provide !! (Also note that is in the Preamble and in no way delegates power to the Congress to act as though it had the power over some particular area.)

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD

star48dizzykat apparently has problems with reading the context or meaning of our Constitution. (He apparently has no problem with name calling--A definite Liberal argument.)

The Tenth Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Yes, the 10th Amendment is out there waiting to be used. Yes, there will be many Court challenges to this Health bill, but I would rather go forward than wait for a series of court ruling which may only chop away at parts of this terrible bill. All of you are capable of using computers--and I assume a search engine like Google, so go and see for yourself how the 10th Amendment is being used to combat Federal unjust or illegal laws that the States are saying they want no part of.

We need to get our State Legislatures to act, we should not just sit around and whine about how unfair something is.

For those of you who keep using the argument that the Christian thing to do is to give health care to your neighbor, I would like to add that the American thing to do, is to Honor our Laws and National Borders and not illegally cross them. We have the Highest illegal immigration going on today (last 10 years or more) and also the Highest Legal immigration going on in our Nations History. This is one of the major causes of the overloading of our Healthcare system and the other services that we normally provide to our Nations people.

This is not a Republican issue, this is a National issue. We are basically bankrupt as a Nation and have been for a while. Loading more DEBT onto the backs of the American people is not the right answer.

Some of the shills on Newsvine continue to post that it is only the Republicans who are opposing Healthcare, most of the debate in the Senate has taken place among the Democrats. When it returns to the House most of the debate will continue there. Does anyone believe that a bill with more than 2000 unread pages of Law will not be loaded with C--P.

Remember the Third Great Lie ! "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

The teabaggers are spreading lies again.

Harry Reid, That's not a doorstep. It's an elevator shaft, you moron.

Harry Reid stands at the doorstep of hell as the biggest criminal thug to hit Washington. He makes Richard M. Nixon look like Mother Teresa. He and his buddies will appear in future history books as the biggest crooks in time.

Shame on you, Mr. President, your massive ego about your career needs to take a back seat on this issue. You are just one person. This was all about YOU, not the citizens of the United States of America. I still respect the position of President, but have lost all respect for you because of the corruption surrounding the bill.

You are screwing over the entire nation, and for what? Your ego.

You, Nancy and Harry disgust me. All those connected with shoving this down the throats of Americans who have done nothing short of screaming from the mountain tops that "we the People" DO NOT WANT THIS BILL have no moral compass.

Please tell us How they lied to America... They wanted to pass a Medical Plan... If They pass it... It will be start in the right way of changing the plan... It has been over due for years... If the Republicans had Their way it would never change!!!

No need to proclaim how the poor Republicans were shut out. We all know what really happened and why it happened.

I have to say, democraps are nothing if not easy to see through. They have two talking points about this bill they like to spew now. Both opposite:

1. Republicans brought NO ideas to the table and deserved to be shut out because they offered nothing.

2. Republicans shape this into a bad bill with their contributions.

Sorry Dee Rice your hypocrisy is showing. You can't have it both ways. Either Republicans had nothing to offer or they shaped the bill. They couldn't have done both at the same time. So you can drop the BS.

You've got to have a LOGICAL basis for a position in an arguement. You probably missed that part in your text book.

Merry what-ever-you-libs-nuts-celebrate.

Thank You,

Now I can possibly afford health insurance! I hope they stay honest and don't find loop holes.

I believe the dems pulled off a victory that isn't going to hurt the insurance industry as well.

My distaste for insurance industry comes from experience, both as a client and a potential salesman. I quit after sales class had introduced me to the acting and con portion of the industry. I have to look myself in the mirror.

Merry Christmas!

I fully support this legislation! It is long over do.I understand it was first proposed in 1912. It is not perfect, but it is a start in the right direction. Let it be known, last year I voted for change; finally I see some. Thank you Democracts, even though I'm an independant, I have compassion for all my fellow Americans;Democrats, Republican, Independant, even the CONFUSED; which seems to represent most of the posters on this site.

"The Beverly Hillbillies"type, (fish out of water),spewing their hate and venom on this legislation are representative of the very people that got us in the situation we find ourselves today. I will also have you know"I FEEL YOUR PAIN", and since it is you in pain, it's sure feels good to me. You have been PAINING the rest of the population for decades.

Elections have consequences. We had an election! The person receiving the most votes WON; this time.That person is doing exactly what his supporters wanted him to do.I advise, get with the Freedom and Liberty and Rights and Constitution you so often babble about. And finally, stop being so chicken hearted and scared of everything. Change can be good sometimes! Like replacing an old worn out tire. Stop adding air or plugging it; CHANGE IT!!! LOL

Majority Leader Reid: 'We stand on the doorstep of history'......Remember who said this and who is responsible.......no more finger pointing.

The next doorstep of history....The Great Exit of 2010.

These posts are a lot like that game that you play in kindergarten where someone whispers something at the beginning of a line and by the end its something completely different.

Ok, first to answer Hoofarted, if someone can’t afford the cost of healthcare and they make below $88,000 per year, then they will receive subsidies to make the care either free or affordable. So unemployed will have care, lower income folks will have care and be a less strain on hospitals and etc. Since hospitals or county hospitals can’t turn people away, who do you really think pays for the healthcare of the uninsured? The general public and those that have insurance. Hospitals can’t print money or operate at a deficit so when someone doesn’t pay their bill and they have no insurance, hospitals must raise prices on everyone else to cover these folks. This will go away.

Secondly, the colonel and Dee are both wrong although Dee is a lot closer. Republicans weren’t shut out of negotiations. They boycotted them. During the development of the bill the republican parts of the committee on healthcare reform were absent and their seats were empty. They were invited to participate and they CHOSE not to. They were not restricted in their access to the talks, they simply said, we don’t like what you are doing, therefore we will not participate. I am from Alabama and I can tell you that Jeff Sessions is a hot headed idiot. Why? He could’ve gotten the deals for Alabama they what’s his name got for Nebraska. Why not? Because Republicans in this instance acted like 3 year olds. They simply said, its my way, my rules or we’re not playing. The Dems were basically in a position to say, Ok, we’re gonna play with or without you, sit over there and complain if you want to.

Third, this bill is far from perfect. I think that most people can agree that there are short falls because of the compromises that have been made to get it passed. It sucks, but this is our system of government. So as an American, I hope they did everything they could to save millions of Americans lives. I hope they improve it over time. It is sad that we believe ourselves to be a leader in the world, but we don’t take care of our own people. What is equally as interesting is that every other single world power does this and they do it without a hiccup. They do it with no conversations about death panels, they do it with no gossip of 6 month waiting periods. I have interviewed probably 100 foreign nationals over the past 10 years, and all of them say, its just not that big a deal to get a Dr’s appointment and that state hospitals are nicer than private hospitals. They wait, but its usually a week or two, just like it is here to see a doctor in the system we have now. Not one single person reported having to wait more than 3 weeks. Fault my survey if you want, but I have a Masters degree in marketing, I know how to do research objectively.

Finally, the whole healthcare debate isn’t a new problem. There was plenty of time for something to be done during the Bush years to fix healthcare. Republicans did nothing. Not to get overly analogous, but consider this. Consider healthcare as a burning house. The city fire department shows up and the volunteer fire department shows up. The city fire department says, “Oh, we don’t have any flame retardant with us, which is the only thing that will fully extinguish the flames and save the house.” The volunteer fire department says, “we don’t have any flame retardant, but here is a well, everybody grab some buckets and we will do what we can. We may not save the whole house, but hopefully we can save some of it and minimize the damage.” In this scenario, I’ll give you one guess as to which fire department represents what party. Did the democrats get it perfect, absolutely not, but what they did do is something, when the republicans did nothing. I am a firm believer that those who do not vote, can not complain about who is in office. Those that choose not to be involved in the development of healthcare reform can’t complain about the healthcare reform that is rammed down their throat. So as you are complaining about how the Democrats are evil awful people. Shouldn’t you be contacting your Republican Representative and ask him, why couldn’t you come up with anything. At least the Democrats were working. The republicans have been getting paid to do, well, from what I can tell, nothing. Now who is wasting the tax payer’s money. Have a merry Christmas.

oldcavscout- I will have a great Christmas knowing we are one step closer to most Americans have health insurance coverage. I am also very proud of the Democrats for having the fortitude to continue forward on health care reform through all the Republican propaganda and lies. Merry Christmas!

The Colonel- Again, resorting to name calling. You can call me a hypocrite or anything else you like. Remember one thing...health care reform will pass, with or without Republican support or input. Lives will be saved. Have a merry Christmas.

Let's see now.

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

Higher taxes and costs on businesses and investors – that should help job growth.

Collect taxes and penalties for 4 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 4 years before we get to see it.

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business, which will lead to severe rationing of care – especially with 30 million more “insured” and much higher malpractice insurance premiums because they have to work 20% faster, and will have dramatic cuts in their “reimbursement rates” for services. The trial lawyers are salivating over this.

Is there any group that the Democrats left out when finding ways to screw up the economy?????

Oh - I almost forgot - They project the National Debt will go up by $1.2 Trillion more, which means it will ACTUALLY go up by about $3 Trillion because of this bill. Obama's own Budget calls for the National Debt to increase to over $23 Trillion in 10 years WITHOUT this bill's cost, but it's extremely optimistic, and will probably be over $30 Trillion, which will put our children and grandchildren hopelessly in debt to foreigners (like China) for their entire lives.

I think that covers just about everyone, except perhaps the illegal immigrants, who will get free or subsidized health care at taxpayer expense, but they can't vote (at least for now).

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR'S ELECTIONS TO SHOW OUR “APPRECIATION”.

Of course we'll have to contend with ACORN, who will register a few million extra imaginary voters and illegal immigrants for the next election. It worked well in Minnesota, where they registered 48,000 new voters (using taxpayer funds), which allowed Al Franken to win the key 60^th Senate seat by 312 votes. Somehow they “misplaced” most of their registrations for Republicans.

You voted for “Change we can believe in”, and you certainly got it, didn't you.

CONGRATULATIONS.

TO BE READ WITH THE FAMILY THIS CHRISTMAS EVE IN FRONT OF THE THE BURNING OF YOUR FIREPLACE NEAR YOUR TREE AND (HOPEFULLY PRESENTS) HOT CHOCOLATE GOES GOOD WITH THIS WONDERFUL POEM.

"It was the night before Christmas, and all through the Senate
The Right held up our health care bill, no matter what was in it.

The people had voted a mandated reform
But Republicans blew off the gathering storm.

We'll clog up the Senate, they cried with a grin.
And in the midterm elections, we'll get voted in.

They knew regular folks needed help right this second
But fundraisers and lobbyists and politics beckoned.

So try as they might, Democrats could not win
Because the majority was simply too thin.

Then across every state there rose such a clatter
The whole Senate rushed out to see what was the matter.

All sprang up from their desk and ran from the floor
Straight through the cloakroom and right out the door.

What in the world would be quite so raucous
But a mandate for change from the Democratic caucus.

The President, the Speaker, and, of course, Leader Reid
Had answered the call in our hour of need.

More rapid than eagles, the provisions they came
And they whistled and shouted and called them by name.

Better coverage, cost savings, a strong public plan, accountable options.
We said, yes, we can. No exclusions or changes for preexisting conditions.

The Democrats all came together to fight
For the American people that Christmas Eve night.

And then in a twinkle, I heard under the dome
The roll call was closed, and it was time to go home.

Despite the obstructionist tactics of some
The filibuster had broken, the people had won.

And a good bill was ready for President Obama
Ready to sign and end health care drama.

Democrats explained as they drove out of sight
Better coverage for all, even our friends on the right.

And I say to all of my colleagues in this season, Merry Christmas and a happy, happy New Year".......Senator Burris, the Senate poet Laurette.

PS: Is there a saying about closing the barn door after the cows have left the barn? The Parties over its time to call it a day....Dandy Don and Howard Cosell.

Did you see the irony of having John Ensign extolling the solemnity of "The Senate Oath", not picking Rep. Virgina Foxx , Coburn, Rep. Skadegger, DeMint, Palin (total nut cases, all) no they have Ensign (the philanderer) extoll the oath. Has the height of comedy and irony sunk into the ego of the leaders of the right? Can anyone explain picking Ensign to extol the Oath? Please someone explain this to me, I cannot figure this out at all. Surreal.

I could go on with some Cole Porter, Johnny Mercer and such, even McConnel said let get this over with and agreed to move the time for "THE VOTE" which is now is set for 7AM EST. Then "THE VOTE". My TIVO is all set for this one.

Flail away if you enjoy swinging at phantoms, most people are trying to enjoy the love of family and friends, just as I am doing. I was able to sneak away and indulge myself for a few minutes on one of my favorite diversions - posting. My little time is up - bye for now. Everyone try and chill out the ball game is over, the fat lady is warming up for her solo, the orchestra members are tuning their instruments and the stage is set. I can happily say so long for now.

Merry Merry To All.......Good Night

I'm curious.

What is the CBO's track record for accuracy on their "scores"?

Does anyone have any info on this?

this dumbass Reid and the rest of these chumps don't give a flying shyte about the "health care" of America...their concern is that they "go down in history"......you asked for it , you got it, bend over , democrat

isn'tchangegood is out teabagging at night

Here's an interesting quote from Rudolph Penner, former Director of the Congressional Budget Office on the accuracy of 10 year budget projections;

"I would not compute a budget balance ten years hence and put it in a budget resolution, because that is essentially a useless exercise."

In other words, any projection looking forward 10 years by the CBO is completely unreliable.

I suspect the "budget surplus" projected by the CBO on the health bill falls in the same category.

Also, for the misinformed souls out there, the budget "surplus" or "deficit" is not the same as the change in the National Debt. Over the last 30 years, the budget "deficit" has been about $4.5 Trillion, but the National Debt increased over those same 30 years by over $9 Trillion. The difference is accounting gimmickry by the government when they calculate the "deficit". When they "borrow" money from other agencies, it increases the National Debt, but they claim it "reduces" the deficit. The media never points out this bit of fiction.

Correction: My brother sitting here next to me is a football trivia expert and after laughing hysterically thought he should spoil my fun and point out the misquote, though its a difference without a distinction, I think. So here is Willie Nelson's wonderful tune. In any regards THE PARTY IS OVER.........I remember Don saying "lets call it a night", after Don and Howard had a few drinks. That is what I remember!!!! The partying in the booth is well documented, good for them. May they RIP best booth ever, again in my opinion.

Turn out the lights
The party’s over
They say that
All good things must end
Call it tonight
The party’s over
And tomorrow starts
The same old thing again

Happy Happy........We all are ready to watch the movie "Cadillac Records" the blues baby..............

I enjoyed the completions to "Twas the nightmare before Christmas . . . "- post. Just think "a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down." Well, at least until you realize the medicine was an enema!

To those specifically on the left - Geez! lighten up! You will live a whole lot longer, be a whole lot happier and have a lot more REAL friends.

Instead of giving away other peoples sustenance, give of your own. If you think others don't give enough, give more yourselves. As the Indians used to say "Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins." That's what people on the right do - at least that's what hard statistics have said for years.

Merry Christmas to one and all!

And despite conservatives assuring us this is the beginning of Nazi Germany version 2.0...

...33 million more Americans will soon be guaranteed health insurance.

What else should we do? Wait? Keep pushing through the piles of legislative b.s. until something slimmer and sleeker emerges? Guess what Republicans, it ain't gonna happen. I'm not happy with what this bill has become any more than you are, but the fact remains that we can't wait another decade for another bill to slowly make its way through the tedious process and superficial politics.

If you're on a computer right now, it's likely you're not someone who actually needs this bill. But guess what? Some people do, and they're begging for someone to stand up and make this a civilized nation again, where we don't leave our lower class to wallow in squalor while the middle is ravaged by taxes and the rich get richer and richer.

Will this bill make things worse for us that actually have a computer to type on? Yes. But it's the first step into stepping outside this idiotic drain we've been circling for years now and putting our nation on a more sustainable, progressive start.

And Republicans? Don't fool yourself when you say "oh, we want health insurance for the poor too! we want everything you want, but you're killing our great nation to get it!" That's just not true. Every liberal president since FDR has tried to get some form of health insurance passed, and the Republicans have blocked it everytime. Not a single conservative president has ever proposed a health insurance bill. Not once. Conservative values are less government involvement, so why not stick by those? To say that you want better health care at lower prices while simultaneously cutting taxes is like saying that you want more surgical operations for less pain with no pain meds. It's just not logical and you know it.

Well, if they pass this they are going to have mass law suits filed that it is unconstitutional to treat any state unequally and they already have a bunch of State Attorney General gearing up to do just that with Nebraska not going to have to pay into the Medicare Fund and several of the New England state getting reduced rates on paying for Medicare. They simply cannot do that and why they think the rest of the states and taxpayers are going to stand still for it is just total idiocy. Reid and Obama have no common sense whatsoever! Do they honestly think that the people of this country are going to go along with being treated as unequal. Maybe we should all declare ourselves as a separate nation and revolt.

They want a 10% tax to fund this crap, no payments out before 2014 while they spend every dime of it and expect us to believe it is deficit neutral when it isn't. Out with the crooks in 2010!!

Get this bill out of Senate and away from the money influences. Put it into conference ASAP. I hope NYTime is correct with their reporting.

BO lied to the American people from the start the only time that person is not lying is when his mouth is shut. Nice to know that they crammed this down our throats, now Pelosi can fly back to California in her USAF C-32, Boeing 757 jet, maybe she can drop off the ones that they had to bribe on her way home if it is not too much a inconvenience for the queen of the dumocrates. By the way Pelosi are you paying for the gas or is this another screw job to the American public????

Dee Rice....... How amazing it is to see the Republicans here in newsvine complain about health care reform when they are the cause of a less than perfect bill. Where were they when this bill was being crafted?

Dee please turn MSNBC off.. and CNN.. The Republicans have been shut out from day one. Your Messiah told the world he was going to do this all in the light of day and on CSPAN.. LOL Harry Reid told us today that he did as much as he could to do it in the light of day. But he and Dodd and Harkin and some other Democrat were the only ones who worked on this BILL.. I dont remember any Republicans getting a kick back or a bribe to vote for this BILL... So can you point out exactly where Republicans are the ones who caused this BILL to be imperfect? Oh dont FORGET about the UNIONS GETTING A FREE RIDE IN THIS HEALTHCARE BILL AND ACORN AGAIN WILL GET Funding..

Let me see, the average health insurance for corporations is about 9,000 dollars per person. If they don't provide insurance, they will be fined 750 dollars per person. I wonder what they will decide to do? And you thought you were guaranteed that you could keep your present plan if you liked it.

So what if you have to buy insurance on your own? You can always go down to your local exchange office and purchase a new plan, right. Only now, since you've probably been to the Doctor once or twice under the old plan, you could probably have a "preexisting condition". Oh yeah, they have to accept you but your premiums just got raised. Of course they can charge you more, they just can't charge you more because of your age or sex. And of course, your new plan won't be the same as your old plan since it will have to conform to some nebulous standard (to be determined at a later date) set by cronies of your duly elected officials in Washington.

Most of the supporters of this health care takeover are going to be greatly surprised when the truth comes out about this bill.

In the mean time, Merry Christmas to all newsvine contributors.

Last-

I'm certainly pinning my hopes on that; there is NO way the Nebraska Numbskull can legally do what he did (though he's not alone).

So many excuse the travesty of what's been transpiring as being "normal business at Capitol Hill".....

Of ALL excuses for this, that has GOT to be the weakest..... BECAUSE YOU WERE PROMISED CHANGE!!!!!

This ISN'T about Blue vs. Red, this about complete and utterly dangerous idiocy from the Whitehouse and Congress; take out the party affiliation demonstratives and just read and explain this as "government did or didn't" instead of Dems this or Repubs that, and it'll become very azure....

This is the biggest waste of time, the most dangerous and partisan "anything" that's been done by government in some time.

For those that believe that at least "something" is being done or that those of us you believe are "obstructionist Repubs", see my posts 1.17 and 1.61.

THESE ARE REAL REFORMS, REAL ANSWERS, NOT COSTLY, ENSURE LEGITIMATE COVERAGE....

but unfortunately, reality, fiscal responsibility, true reform, and common sense were never intended..... BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR INSURANCE CO.'S AND BIG PHARMA JUST to get "names" in the history books AND buy votes (wait and see what's coming in 2010.... our population is "unexpectedly" going to grow).

History will judge us, and this, harshly.... somewhat to the tune of "in the name of health care reform and coverage, they did WHAT? WHAT did THAT do? Bilk Americans out of money, change NOTHING in costs, reformed nothing, and pandered to the very ones they were claiming NEEDED CHANGE? How in the HELL did that farce come to be? THAT'S why I'm screwed now?"

If Reid is on tghe verge of making history he is also on the verge of becoming unemployed

One of the things that has inadvertently came out of this reform is how our legislative body really works. How deals get cut and how certain parts of our country get benefits that others don't. Votes get bought with taxpayer money and I believe this reform will hit the legal system. Ironically, we worry about how American business conducts itself when we really need to worry about how our government runs itself. We balk at some exec getting a mega bonus when his company isn't doing well; yet, we'll throw hundreds of millions at a senator to get his vote when our country isn't doing well. It looks like a double standard to me. I don't think this is really acceptable to the American people and I believe the next time congress sticks it's nose into big business the outcry will be far greater than ever before. We need to clean out our own house first.

To oldcavscout - kudos on your song, well done!

To Dee Rice, You should stop posting Liberal talking points, it is not helping your cause. The bill has been "less than perfect" from the beginning and is full of pork as well. It is not going to get better until it hits the shredder and they start over. We need reform, not control. More important yet, we need jobs to pay for this health care. Congress has lost sight of where the biggest problems are. They are too busy trying to control our private lives.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!

You know what I hear from people who really don't pay any attention to what's going on?

"Give him (Obama) a chance"!

That's their entire argument!

I guess ignorance is bliss.

openminded

Obama said at the last PR bs session he held that 35 million people did not have access to health care...of course down from the 45 million he claimed earlier on...every article and cbo report currently says that after passage 25 million will still not be covered...and you are claiming "35 million more will soon have..." the liberal math is some stupid ass sh!t...buy a f'n abacus

Passing a healthcare bill no matter what was the theme by Democrats. They must live with this mistake. This bill and the CBO report is bringing an end to Obama's dream.

Obama is a bust. Socialism doesn't work. People do and they need jobs.

Humans have the ability to "justify" their actions. To remain functional in difficult sitituations this necessary, however, going to the extreme of blocking out facts to the opposite truth is also the begining of destruction,

You don't need to go to confession if you have no soul.

Obama himself said the Senate legislation accomplishes 95 percent of what he wanted. "Every single criteria for reform I put forward is in this bill," the president told The Washington Post.

One simple question should be asked of every senator, individually, and recorded for any person curious to know:

WHY SHOULD YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES BE EXEMPT FROM THE SAME "REFORM" THAT YOU'RE EXPECTING US TO EMBRACE?

Two questions..........WHY ARE THERE SEPERATE "CRITERIA" FOR THE BOZOS DRAFTING THIS LEGISLATION?????????

This pisses me off no end!

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free!

I don't think we can afford any more "free" $hit!

It costs too much!

well thats it we're screwed

Dee Rice, Stand up so you can hear better. What we are trying to get into your thick empty head is that the dems WOULD NOT LET ANYONE add to or compliment the bill!! Quit acting like them would ya!! Can you even read?? During the whole course of the debate the dems have repeatedly turned everyone away that had questions. Go ahead and run to the other side with your tail between your legs. We will galdly blame you along with all the other thieves.

O B A M A already cut a devious back-rool deal (Chicago style) with big Pharma, so our drugs will only go up, and up. So much for transparency - - - I wonder who got a big kickback on this deal.

MORE LIES AND BROKEN PROMISES-NO EARMARKS . . . Ha

Randy- Keep repeating the same Republican party lie. They never had any intention on reforming health care. We all know the truth so quit spouting lies. Also, you need to learn how to post on newsvine because you look pretty ignorant randomly inserting your comment where it doesn't belong.

Randy: Boy do you have it back words... the democrats always tried to keep the People up with what they were doing... The problem is You republicans only listen to the lies told to you!!!

Dee

gop.gov has several points about the republican plans that would help, even if they were only blended with some of your marxist schemes...try using a 21st century tool at your disposal called "the internet" and you may enlighten yourself and be able to add real contributions to the conversation

"the democrats always tried to keep the People up with what they were doing "...hahaha...how long have you been a pipe head?

Imk02

Truth is we are giving 300 million to a senators' state to buy a Senators vote.

A lie is taking 3+ Pages to describe Louisiana without mentioning Louisiana to give Louisiana 300 million dollars to ease the pain the bill was going to cause the residence of Louisiana just so a senator will give you a vote but the bill doesn't even give the reason the $300 million is in the bill for.

A lie is writing that illegal aliens are ineligible for health care benefits, while working on a bill to make all illegal aliens legal.

This is the most corrupt congress in history. They are so confident they will be returned, that they will pass this bill without the far majorities consent. That isn't a lie, it's arrogance. But we are the ones who have permitted this arrogance by listening to the wrong people for years.

Transparency -- yeah right......that would be refusing to publish the bill for the public to read

Bi-partisanship --that would be behind closed doors cutting deals for votes and paying out TARP money as pork programs to buy votes.

Obama campaigned on public option insurance reforms.........this is not even close. The pharmacutical companies have had months to raise all their drugs and have done so. Just as they gave the Banks months to screw credit cardholders over with every fee they could come up with. Sure set Dr's fees and what you are getting is Doctors sending out notices that they will now charge a yearly retainer fee for their services which is not anything to do with the fee they charge for medical procedures. Slipped another fee through a huge loophole, didn't they?

Dee,

Howard Dean said that because of a republican senator saying he wanted Mr. Obama to fail and hoped it would be his Waterloo, the democrats vowed the republicans would have no input. And we all know that democrats never lie.

All you Libs who want to ignore what this bill is really going to do are putting your head in the sand. Remember, what is up in the air when your head is in the sand. That may not be a good thing when Barney Frank is lurking about. Unless, of course, you are in to that sort of thing.

Put Party Affiliation aside for 1 minute:

If you do not know this, this country is in debt, what is it now 12 TRILLION dollars??? If you think China owns this debt, you are wrong, China ownes about 800 billion. In all foreign Governments own about 2 Trillion dollars of US debt, the rest (10 TRILLION) is owned by the tax payers of the US!!!

Does anyone know how Social Security works? I bet less than 1% of you know. Go to this site and see how it works, and if you are still for "Health Care" reform, you are either stupid and cannot comprehend that this country is BROKE, or you are looking to just plain destroy this country. This web site has no party affiliation, it is just facts.

http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.asp

What they need to reform is Social Security, not health care. The only way to do that is to vote them out. Check this site out:

http://goooh.com/

Blind allegiance to any one politcal party is a sign of deminshed intellect, the sooner AMERICANS realize that the majority of politicians are crooks, the sooner we will be on the road to recovery.

Pitboss... well said, unfortunately, as you well know, it is virtually impossible for a TRUE independent to run for ANY office in this country. The major political parties have seen to that on a federal down to the local level. The other issue is funding. The average American cannot fund a political battle from savings, and the political parties in power (Republicrats and Demicans) have made sure THEY retain power at everyone's expense.

Even if you do manage to get on a ballot, the major parties wuill ensure that you'll never get sufficient votes, through whatever means available, to gain office.

Evilmonkey the dems have failed miserably but you're too blinded by the glare off the basketball player in chief's global sized ego to see it.

Here's why: the plan calls for lower payments to doctors for treatment.....doctors will simply stop seeing Medicare and new governement mess insurance because if they do they will go out of business. So in essence lower income people will have no insurance because quality doctor won't accept their government trash policies.....

Yeah Evil.....great plan the demonkrauts came up with...

Don't forget to call me a racist for saying basketball player in chief....

Thanks XDm9mm!! Hopefully the Progressives will split with the blue dogs and the bush repubs split with the fiscal conservatives, then there will be room for other parties, until thn we are screwed!!

Anyone know how to get a senator impeached???

Reagan agreed. The Republican party drifted from conservative to extremely conservative in 1960-64, and lost bad. It veered to the moderates which brought Nixon moderate and Ford a conservative leaning moderate. Both were really puppets of democrat majorities in the House and Senate.

Then came Reagan - not as conservative as Goldwater, but more conservative than Nixon and Ford. He believed that a new party would only split the republican party resulting in the democrats retaining or expanding their power. This is not lost on the democrats. They will spend democrat raised funds on independent candidates to steal votes from Republicans, especially conservatives - which is the only group they really FEAR!

Reagan believed that the nation would be better off with a revitalized Republican party. This is the similar to what the 9-12 organization and many of the other "tea party" groups believe. 9-12 specifically states that they want reform from within the parties.

The one thing that rang clear in November 2009, people want a more conservative government. In just a few weeks the conservative in NY-23 passed charade republican and lost the seat by a few thousand votes. If he had been the republican candidate - he wins. In Florida right now Gov. Crist is a moderate Republican has fallen quickly to even to a conservative Republican.

Think about it Obama was successful in positioning himself to appear more conservative and stable than any of his opponents. The key is "appear" Just because someone is a Republican doesn't mean they are conservative, and just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean they are a liberal.

The Republican party is moving conservative - just watch out for the fakers! The Bush years put 12 fakers in office and the results were ridiculous debt. If those years were ridiculous, what should we call the Democrat Dominated Years since 2007?

Evil-

See post 1.17 above. NOTHING has been addressed, and conservatives AREN'T all Bushies and Limbaugh fans. What REALLY needs addressed is there, and ALL 2K + pages FAILED MISERABLEY to do anything close.....

Moderation,

I would prefer many more things be addressed but this legislation certainly addresses many shortcomings of our insurance crisis. Approximately 30 million more Americans will be insured, existing condition goes away subsidies for those under $88,000.00 in income. Demanding spending minimums by the insurance industry may curtail costs, exchanges also may. The conservatives are ALL pandering to the party fringe that make Bush look like Adlai Stevenson. The GOP has forced over 100 cloture votes and delayed in and out of comitte another 100 they do it on virtually every bill in order to make change as difficult as possible so that Obama appears unwilling or unable to make good on his agenda. They even do it on bills that they support such as war funding it is politics at its worst. The GOP threatened nuclear options under Frist for blocking radical judicial appointments the GOP does it on evert major piece of legislation. The higher the level of edia coverage the greater the chance of filibuster the party of Palin is an embarrasment.

JKHayes

EvilMonkey1518747

As previously stated, take your self-righteous "gay" agenda and stuff it up your a**.

Difficult to communicate with you yahoo liberal monkeys through locked doors.

Jim Hayes,

Your rant would be amusing except that it has nothing to do with the article. Read the polls Buckaroo, Americans do not want this Piece of Crap legislation.

Oh by the way, one Democratic congressman was so embarassed by his party that he switched. The Democratic Party is now embarassed.........who am I kidding ??? They do not care, they are beyond embarassment since they have no sense of ethics. The party of Mary Landrieu, Chris Dodd and Ben Nelson is a sad joke.

"Party" IS the appropriate word.... it's happening on our dime. For those that would say "the GOP did this and that too" (which I don't happen to agree with ANY party's abuses)....

What the HELL makes that any excuse to continue it, ESPECIALLY when the campaign platform run on was "change, change, change.... change this, change that, NOT business as usual, read line by line ALL bills, single item legislation, NO TAX INCREASES, etc, etc, ".

This administration is using the Constitution as toilet paper, and if the court justices don't do something, if Nelson gets away with his illegal bits, then the jails will likely be full. Reform means "REFORM", NOT do absolutely NOTHING but redistribute wealth. See my post 1.17 above if you need educating.

Read DB's post.... to the point.

Jim Hayes,

That $88,000 figure is only for a family of 4. The figure is actually tied to whatever poverty level figure they want to tie it to and will be different for every situation. I believe that in the Senate version, anybody making under 150% of that poverty level will have to go on medicaid. Good luck with that and just wait till your states start raising their taxes to pay for the increased medicaid expenditures.

We need People like Obama... Otherwise This Country just keeps going nack wards!!!

I liked Obama, but his ego just killed our country.

Read the bill. Imk02.

Gee Carrie I like paying for things for 3 or 4 years before I get to use them, or should I say am forced to pay for them, I wonder where they will funnel these funds to??? Nice bribe job dumocrates, heh if you use the initials for bribe job it is bj fitting for congress.

Deerice, you need to get your facts correct. The debt for 2008 - 2009 would have been less than 400 billion. But when you add in the $408 billion from the democrat omnibus bill and the almost $800 billion from the stimulus and the raising of our debt ceiling, obama and the democrats deficits will be higher than all the other President's deficits combined. Also, you must be on welfare. If not, I would love to see your comment on this healthcare in about 3 years. The Medicare cuts do not take place until 2011 and the spending on healthcare does not take place until 2014. If this was such a good deal, then why isn't the democrats forcing themselves and all the federal workers on to this healthcare? The fact is now, that this healthcare plan will raise the deficit. The democrats are spending the money twice from the savings or cuts in Medicare. If you take the double accounting out, then the deficit is increased. Also, people need to remember that there is a $200 billion bill to reimburse doctors from the Medicare cuts paid out to doctors. This would also make the healthcare bill increase our deficit.

Mark- First of all, read my post, if you are capable, I never made a comment on the amount of debt. More Republican lies and propaganda from the party of "NO". I am not on welfare and have never been on welfare. I have private insurance which is employer based. I am thrilled that lives will be saved by this legislation and I would like to tell all the followers out there to not listen to the lies and propaganda being spewed by the Republican party. Read the bill yourself and then decide if you oppose it or not.

States have been releasing prisoners all year because they can't afford to keep them locked up....I doubt they'll keep you.

pjam09, no they'll keep me because I can't afford the insurance. Besides I haven't robbed anyone, hurt or assulted anyone, de-frauded anyone, done any illegal trafficing, etc.

In fact Madoff & Skilling would probably be out before you or I....

And that's when the government will have us all by the short ones.... (just what they are planning all along)

pjam: Thats because the Republicans rather spend the money on their War effert than take care of the People of Our Country... thery made cutds in everything the American needed to support Their war!!!

Imk02 - the Republican War effort? Gee, wasn't that Obama who just ordered 30,000 more soldiers to HIS war in Afghanistan?? Wasn't the Obama who gave the order to fire on Yemen just this week? Now step back and take a look at the Democratic Kennedy war of Viet Nam.........hmm, lets see. You'd rather these turkeys sent our young men to war with no money for ammo?

What you are calling Republican's war is a farce. I'd rather see our country pay to keep our soldiers' safe than to pay 30% of this healthcare to illegal immigrants and yes, that's in this bill. Or pay for abortions! Just because the Republicans have fought to keep our soldiers funded does not make it our war. However, if you try to put that slant on it, please remember the next bill in the wings is Obama's VAT which is a Federal Sales Tax on everything and has nothing to do with healthcare!

I wouldn't put all Democrats in with the liberals.That's like putting the birthers in with all Republicans.

OK.. my mistake...

Oh, by the way.. you'll be needing those shovels for more than snow in DC!!

Agreed!!

Ok, so getting back to my point, WHAT IS THE REPUBLICAN POSITION ON HEALTH CARE? Republican's quit evading the question, quit talking s*** for 5 minutes (I know that's asking a lot), and give me a straight answer. Since all the republican's have been doing is trash talking this health care plan and not presenting one of their own, there's really no reason to listen to them.

Monkey,

Not sure if you watched the Finance Committee on C-Span (before all the back room deals were made). Republicans couldn't say anything because Baucus would either not let the amendments come to a vote if he thought the mod dems in the committee would vote for it, or let them vote, when every Dem (there were 13 dems and 10 repubs) would vote against the amendment. Look at the Finance Committee records instead of taking what MSNBC or CNN tells you as fact. Look for yourself and you will see Baucus was a one man party of NO. I'm not going to do your homework for you, so take some time and educate yourself.

Blind allegiance to any one political party is sign of deminished intelligence

EvilMonkey.. There have been several "republican" proposals put forward.. but uhmmm.. they never got out of the Democrat controlled committee.. go figure...

But all of that is neither here nor there.. WHY is there such a rush to get this passed?? Are they that afraid of what the American people would have to say about this bill if they actually had a chance to read and understand it?

I know we need to do something... There is great disparity in the country.. but you want to know something.. I don't want to PAY for something for at least FIVE years before it becomes effective, and i DON'T want my Grandchildren to become destitute because MY government can't control it's spending.

EVERYONE of the clowns in BOTH houses of congress AND the White House need to be tossed out. They're ALL on major ego trips that frankly I and my grandkids can't afford.

There are something like 139 Republican amendments in the bill.

The Republican Minority Leader is on public record saying that Republicans DID NOT OFFER a comprehensive bill because as the minority party, it was not their responsibility.

monkey, you are what is wrong with america!! and by the way, when did the government start giving computers and internet access to welfare cases? Just another waste of my tax money!!

Oh whats wrong Pitboss? Mad because I figured out your little game? YOU'RE whats wrong with America, you attack people with valid points because they don't conform with your own. Maybe you should go take a nap, you're cranky.

when did you ever have a valid point??? Asking stupid questions, is not the same as having a valid point.

Here is a valid point...... the US cannot afford another entitlement. Don't try to argue it, because it us fact. Go to this website and check it out, simply facts!

http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.asp

Mr. Monkey Sir?

I'm on your side.

I got that Clarke, and my thanks was genuine, the internet isn't exactly a great communication method sometimes, sorry if you thought I was being sarcastic towards you or attacking you, I wasn't. Thanks for the support!

Evil, You are distasteful sir, and have no respect for others. Please try to act with some decorum, and maybe people will take you seriously. All you have done is attack people, and presented boorish behavior. I will gladly debate these issues with you if you act mature and composed. Please realize that not everyone speaks with such filth and hatred towards others.

It's all crap. Healthcare, cap and trade... it's all a distraction for government takeover. NONE of these bills will come to fruition due to the fact that our dollar will crash within 2-5 years. Right... Left.... you're all being fools. The Federal Reserve is inflating us purposely for this takeover, and you're squabbling like children over nothing! Address the real problem for a "change". If we don't stop the evil, corrupt Fed and their underlings... all is lost.

And enter the 3rd party, the party of Conspiracy Theory. The fed Reserve taking us over? Really? For what purpose? You going to bring up chem trails, the VIP bunkers in Greenwood WV, and Bigfoot for us next?

I'm only behaving like everyone else on this site, I've tried having honest debates and only ended up being attacked on all ends myself, so now that you're getting it you cry foul? Sorry that doesn't seem right to me, so before you start lecturing me maybe you can lecture your friends on respect as well.

I have no friends here. I am an individual and speak my mind, not what I'm told to say. And no, you are behaving worse than anyone. Should I repost all the comments you made in every post just in this forum and let your mom read them, so she can be proud of the words you use? There's no debating you, so I'll let you off with Ron White's high school debate answer! If anyone watched that, you know what I mean!

Thank you. Have a good night.

Here evilmonkey..... you must totally inept at google searches.... took me less than sixty seconds ..... http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

@captcouragous- Remain blind all you want. Why don't you read up on Fed policies, statements, and actions throughout it's history. Every central banking system has FAILED and impoverished the nations that have had them. ALL OF THEM. It's simple math. Do you agree that a private, foreign owned central banking system should be in control of our monetary system, especially when it's unconstitutional to have a central bank in the first place?!? Read your history and your constitution. These current government actions are what the founding fathers fought against and warned future generations about.

Evil MOnkey,

Many Republicans believe in starting with Tort Reform because out of control malpractice lawsuits have forced doctors and hospitals to practice overly-defensive medicine.

Second, allow for more insurance competition across state lines by health insurers....it's called increasing competition.

Third, eliminate some of the bureaucratic crap our government has posed in recent years.

Allow for better portability of existing health insurance plans.

Tort reform.

Allow buying of insurance across statelines.

Tackle the actual costs of medical care, not just the insurance end.

Make better use of and streamline current entitlement programs in effect, such as Medicaid, Medicare, variations on children healthcare (such as TANF in Texas) Cobra et all.

Tax credits for small business to get healthcare for workers.

Slash taxes to allow people to keep more of their money in which to purchase health insurance.

All of which is easy to implement and does not shake down any monies form people. If you have read others posts where they have mentioned it, instead of yelling, you would have known about it.

When the pres gave his state of the Union adress, the repubplicans waved their solutions at the president, but hte camera never cut ot show it becuase well, you know why.

Your party leadership has no desire to let you know there are alternatives to this because then you would be against this plan. The speaker of the house controls what gets put on the floor and what does not. Same with the Senate Majority leader. Just becuase you were not told about them on your "progressive" (really oppressive) newsites, does not mean they did not exist. As others have said, you need to do your research, rather than being spoonfed it. That is why we are in this situation.

What scares the hell out of me, is how Obama and the Democrats are pushing hard to get this bill passed before christmas.

Are they trying to get it set in stone before the American public wakes up and truly see's how badly this bill will screw them?

It's more complicated than a poll showing the amount of people supporting/ opposing the final bill.

Take me, for instance. I said in a poll that I oppose the bill that's going to pass tomorrow. What nobody asked me, though, is whether I thought it should pass.

Much like Howard Dean, while I have problems with the bill, I still believe it needs to pass, to begin improving this country's broken health care system. It's not a contradiction, I'm not experiencing cognitive dissonance. I'm simply contrasting what I would like to have happen vs. what's realistic.

Which raises another point: of the people who oppose this bill, many of them are people who want health care reform, but feel this doesn't go far enough. It's not all ultra-conservatives who don't want any reform.

The fact is, if something isn't dont right now, it will take decades before an attempt can be made again. The American people can't afford to wait that long. The Republicans are not going to go after health care. Which means we need a Democratic President, plus a 60 Democrat majority in the Senate, to have a shot at change.

So no, I don't support this bill. Without a public option, it's a gift to big insurance. But, with no more denials for pre-existing conditions, policy costs limited (hopefully) by the Feds, and 95% of Americans having affordable health care, at least it's a start.

You hope that's how this bill is going to act, but I have a feeling that what they are telling us, and what is going to happen are two different animals completely.

Clotho,

You couldn't have said it any better. There are numerous issues with this bill, but the status quo is far worse. I abhor the sleazy manner in which this bill was crafted and voted on, but that is the state of the Beltway regardless of party.

I do believe that the Republican mantra of opposing everything and actively trying to make the President fail has greatly hindered this and other legislative priorities. A little less blind party allegiance and a little more thinking about the country's welfare would have led to a better bill and not force the Democrats cave in to their own profiteers to try and do what's best for the country.

If you honestly believe that this bill is going to ruin the united states, then I would suggest you go see a psychiatrist.

mike, bigeye isn't distressed, but maybe you are brainwashed. It's about the debt sir, and nothing else. We can't afford ANY more, and if you think we can, I have some nice beachfront property for you in the Everglades for sell.

Nice spout of mindless rhetoric there captain. Of course I am the brainwashed one because I don't think the healthcare bill will destroy america. Makes perfect sense.

mikegparty,

It's amazing how anyone disagreeing with you is declared mindless. Perhaps they have a better, realistic view of what this legislation truly means.

Medicare is broke. Social Security is headed that way. The Post Office is going broke. Virtually every government entitlement program ever created has been plagued with uncontrolled fraud and corruption.

And you want more of this ??? This bill will affect 1/6 of our country's already weak, debt-ridden struggling economy.

mike,
You are the one who needs the psychologist, to cure your brain-washed state.

I didn't declare him mindless, I called his rhetoric that. If you truly think that the bill destroying America is a more realistic view then you too have been suckered by right wing rhetoric. Go ahead and just ignore the projected decreases in the deficit. Its amazing to me that you guys believe pure bullcrap that the bill will destroy america.

Oh, is that the projected decreases before or after the needed correction uncovered by Jeff Sessions ? This is NOT what is meant by double-entry accounting.

I am a CPA and I do understand number crunching pretty well. Democrats can play the shell game with money but mainstream America knows the financial disaster this will bring to every American household......except in Nebraska !

mike not to mention that there is the unfunded doctors mandate to the tune of 240 million that was dropped from the bill to be reintroduced later. Additionally tell me how they will decrease medicare payments by 400 billion, increase the number of people who will receive subsidies from the government and still keep this bill deficit neutral.

In reality ther will be no savings because if they wanted to save 400 or 500 billion in medicare waste and fraud they would have done so already. Additionally no government program has ever saved any money at all no matter what the estimates. Every government program ends up costing more than was projected in cost overruns and increased personnel. Additionally this bill will create whole new layers of government requiring thousands of new government workers.

The only midless rhetoric here is that coming out of the democratic party and blind lemmings who refuse to think critically.

Jim04 and Eduardo just said it all...

Not expensive, not a takeover, not 2k + pages. Posters galore have come up with these ideas over and over debating this, yet multi -million dollars worth of "representation" came up with complete garbage.

Vile monkey keeps yelping about "what did the Red come up with?"

Why not concentrate on what most ALL with common sense have come up with?

Well said!

Sounds like the both of you have drunk the kool aid

Only the finest kool aid.

Probably from your couch waiting for your next govt. handout to arrive.

Evil, you are a bigot.

No, sorry you got me confused with every conservative on this board.

We learned to whine and gravel with the best of them. We will continue to whine until the crazies in Congress and the Senate are voted out in 2010. Make sure that we won't accpet this garbage administration quietly. I want to see 'term limits' imposed on our electees. They tend to get god-like in their own minds after a few years. They forget just who they work for and how they got there. Will someone with guts come up with a bill to enact term limits.

I honestly see about half your post as more conservative ranting and babying, but I will agree with one thing that you said and that's imposing term limits on congress, that would help curb a lot corruption.

Oplis,

When I read your rant, it truly reminds me of a term by former boss once used .........................Rectocranial inversion. Please grow up and realize the Democrats rebuffed every Republican idea from the start. It was a total lockout...........Democrats had an opportunity for the RAW ABUSE OF POWER and they took it, with all the shameful bribes and buyouts needed.

So is the republican party filled with saints in your mind, Jim?

No, the Republican party is not filled with saints. But you clowns keep crying that the Republicans didnt contribute to this bill, 30 seconds is all thats required to start on a path of enlightenment, not that you guys give a rats ass about the truth. Try educating yourselves instead of being spoon fed half truths and lies.

oplis, you are wrong. Every time the Republicans tried to put in an amendment or change, it was shot down. Every time! When obama had his meeting on the healthcare, not one Republican was invited, not one! Get some facts straight instead of spreading the typical liberal lies.

I have sent letters to my elected officials. I am pro reform but in the right way.

I suggested we fix the existng systems that obama said would banrupt the country. Turn them into a shining example of how the government can reform healthcare. Fix a lot of the easier issues such as tort reform and preexisting conditions.

I wanted the test and impliment approach over the big bang.

Noone listened to me. Go figure.

You really believe that propoganda Oplis?

Would you care to explain why over 200 Republican amendments in the House were voted down by the Democrats, and ALL of the amendments in the Senate were voted down by the Democrats, while the Democrats, and YOU, were saying, "they had their chance to change the bill, and help structure it"????????

Would you care to explain why doors were locked to Republicans while deals were made? Would you care to explain why Obama and even the Big She Witch herself, Pelosi said that this would be "bipartisan" and then totally shut out the Republicans?

Yeah, right, they had their chance.

Maybe the republican amendments were rejected because they didn't reform health care satisfactory? Or maybe because they wouldn't compromise on anything? Did you ever think of that?

You ever think that it might have been the people you're defending with such gusto that refused to be flexible. The Dems could have afforded to be magnanimous to the Reps and still had the majority of their way, but they acted like spoiled brats that took their ball and went home, to play with it themselves behind closed doors. He said, she said, doesn't matter. The simple facts are that the Dems did it alone. Period. End of story. Anything else said other than that is a lie. Please no spin, we're getting woozy as it is.

Once again, maybe the republican's amendments didn't contribute to the health care reform goal satisfactory.

spin, spin, spin. Believe what you want, the truth comes Nov 2010.

Or maybe the door was locked....what a moron.

I have no doubt that most average liberals have their heart in the right place, wanting to help the less fortunate. The sad part is, that they have no clue on how government works and even less an idea about economics.

Social Security is a ponzi scheme, it is going to destoy this country, if it isn't "reformed" soon, healthcare is going to be the least of everyones worries. People, go to this site and see how social security works and then ask yourself, if the government already owes the tax payers 10 TRILLION dollars, how can they afford to start another entitlement??? People if you believe that it is deficit neutral or even saves money, you are either naive or just plain stupid. With increasing liabilities and decreasing revenue in Social Security and Medicare, how can the government pay for health care?? They are going to pass it onto the states as unfunded mandates and make the states pay for it. Texas, New Hampshire, Florida, get ready for a State Income Tax.

We did not get into this mess by taxing to little, we got into this mess by spending too much (Ronald Reagan).

Email your congressmen and woman and tell them to stop spending and cut taxes and let us be free!!!

http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.asp

every tax payers worst nightmare

pitboss...well gee...thanks for saying that while I have my heart in the right place...since I am a liberal I am clearly to stupid to know how the government or how economics work...this is the kind of stuff that makes any valid points you try to make worthless...not all liberals are stupid nor are we looking for a hand out...just like not all republicans are tobacco chewing, truck driving, sister loving racists...

Agreed with Michelle, Pitboss you have a lot to learn about liberals.

Thanks Evil...I hope you and your loved ones have a Safe and Merry Christmas!

Michele, explain to me the basics of Social Security. What is Social Security, how does it work, where is the money that has been paid in???

Since Michele can't answer those questions, can any other Liberal answer those questions??

If 100% of tax paying Americans knew how Social Security worked, talk of another entitlement wouldn't even be whispered. Everyone, Libs, Conservs, anarchs, everyone that pays taxes, we are being robbed by these politicians!!

oplis, you are wrong. Every time the Republicans tried to put in an amendment or change, it was shot down. Every time! When obama had his meeting on the healthcare, not one Republican was invited, not one! Get some facts straight instead of spreading the typical liberal lies.

Every state ought to get what Nebraska got. The fed pays for health care. Medicare for everyone. What's wrong with that?

Higher taxes? The highest brack for personal income taxes were at more than 90% until Reagan, and they included the 1950s, arguably the most prosperous decade in our history. Under Clinton they were 39%. Now they're 35% and the estate tax is suspended. We can afford to chip in a bit more than we are now.

People who are pulling their hair out of this very modest attempt to provide adequate health care for the 30M who don't have insurance, don't have much faith in the resilience or common sense in the USA.

The current program, for all its flaws, can be tweaked and improved over time. Somehow all of the rest of the industrialized world seems able to get along with national health care and still survive.

If this plan, weak as it is, turns out to be a catastrophe, we can get rid of it, just as we got rid of Prohibition, which was a Constitutional amendment.

It's getting tiresome hearing "the sky is falling".

The current program, for all its flaws, can be tweaked and improved over time. Somehow all of the rest of the industrialized world seems able to get along with national health care and still survive.

If the Fed quit wasting our tax money, we could pay for national healthcare. But now they want to keep wasting our money and tax us more. I have no doubt your heart is in the right place, do good for others, but come on, we are taxed enough!!! Only a fool is happy to give his money away!

Well stated Robert.

Good post. In the old days, whomever had the majority in the Senate would say to the minority "You're the minority. Feel free to vote your conscience, yes or no, on the legislation. But since the American people voted for us to be the majority, you need to accept that our legislation is probably going to pass."

And the minority party would sadly nod their heads, realizing that the people had spoken, and their ideas for the country were not the ones favored by the American people. Even 2000-2006, the Democrats were willing to accept that the American people wanted a majority of Republicans making the decisions.

Nowadays, even the minority party won't accept that the American people made them the minority for a reason. OK, some of that was anti-Bush hatred, but for whatever reason, they clearly, by a huge majority, wanted Democrats to have a shot in the majority.

Even 2000-2006, the Democrats were willing to accept that the American people wanted a majority of Republicans making the decisions. --- Clotho

Are you kidding me. For eight years all I heard was Dems saying that Bush didn't really win. He shouldn't be president. Americans don't belive in the Iraq War. Bush is a war criminal. Bush is horrible. For eight years the liberals didn't stop talking about how Bush didn't represent the true voice of America. Is your memory really that short?

How about coming to the independent side and voting the issues and your conscience rather than a party.

Judging by your other posts where you use republican rhetoric "drunk the kool-aid" and "you must be on welfare" I seriously doubt you were ever a democrat. If you were, then you have truly been brainwashed by the right wing.

I feel your pain, the public option would be nice. I'm still hoping it works it's way in. Though to be fair to the President, this falls on the Senate's shoulders. The President is not drafting legislation.

By the way, President Obama's first name is "Barack", with one "R". If you want to be informal, just call him "Barry". It's easier, and I doubt he minds. :)

The president is not drafting this bill??? Oh but he will be the one signing it. Call him barry....you libs are all ass kissers.

I agree with you and the CBO. Any idiot can see if you tax for ten years and only spend for 6 years, you may come out ahead. However sometime in the future when you have to spend for the full ten years, guess what you will be way short of cash, and then there goes the deficit. Not all Demos are liers, just our elected ones.

"overstate the improvement" does NOT mean add to the deficit, it means not as much improvement as was stated previously.

An overstated improvement is still an improvement, just not as much of an improvement.

An overstated improvement is still an improvement, a increase to the deficit ceiling is still a limit to spending, a bad health care bill is still a health care bill, a stupid comment is typically from a liberal.

clarke ong,

This simply proves they LIED in an effort to sell this garbage. False statistics make people of common sense wonder about how much more of this bill is a LIE.

CBO is non-partisan. Why would they lie? And if they did, why would they rat themselves out?

Ok they are supposed to be non-partisan lets see how the director is appointed:

The Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate jointly appoint the CBO Director, after considering recommendations from the two budget committees. The term of office is four years, with no limit on the number of terms a Director may serve. Either House of Congress, however, may remove the Director by resolution.

Speaker of the House: Rep. Pelosi - Democrat

President pro tempore: Senator Byrd - Democrat

Current CBO Director appointed January 2009

The Director appoints all CBO staff, including the Deputy Director, and all appointments are based solely on professional competence, without regard to political affiliation.

Think clarke think ! The Democratic Party reported their version of "cost savings". The CBO corrected it. If the CBO is truly non-partisan then that pretty well proves the Dems lied.

jim Clark couldnt find his a$$ with both hands give up he must be a kid or young adult

Obama is going through on-the-job training on the backs of Americans...

I also will be laughing next November when these libs get voted out of office by common sense Americans.

The Republicans actually put three different bills into committees between June and August. None made it out of the Democratically controlled committees.

If this bill turns out the way I think it will over the next 4-5 years, I'll be reverting to my VA benefits, which I have avoided doing because the system is already overtaxed. But I won't have a real choice.

rmc, maybe your idea will catch on because if it does it might force the government into a single pay system. So go ahead and when the single pay system kicks in you can say I helped do that.

luvenia: I suppose that is a good idea for you a single pay system? I would be more than glad to help with insurance for my employs but not this way. This way forces me to spend money I DONT have, therfore I have only a few options, 1: 1099 2: go out of business. MAybe you just dont understand but small businesses cannot offord any more expenses, the economy sucks no matter what msnbc or obama tells you. This bill is not what we as a country need. DO we need health care reform: yes nobody will disagree with you but taxing the @!$%# out of me and you is not going to solve the problem.

Fair Tax Act, NOW, I agree.

luvenia48,

You forget that the IRS has guidelines that determine what constitutes an employee, and what is an independent contractor. So, while rmc's comments are cute, yours fall into limbo somewhere and make no sense.

Pass it when everybody else is pre-occupied with the spirt of Christmas, and are too busy with family and friends. They will wish for another Christmas eve when they can't hide on election day 2010

You can blame the Republicans for that. They used every delay tactic, otherwise the final vote would have been taken days ago. Though I do want to thank the GOP for finally admitting they're going to lose and allowing the vote in the morning, rather than force everyone to wait until evening.

He was heard to exclaim ere he rode out of sight, "that Hope and Change was a great lie, alright"

You're wrong about that, Anna. The vote has been postponed as long as it has because the Republicans have fought tooth and nail to delay it, even demanding that a 700-page amendment by Bernie Sanders (D-VT) be read out loud, which would have taken eight to ten hours. Sanders finally withdrew his amendment in an attempt to get on with things.

The delay that has frustrated everyone isn't due to "Obama and the democrats" wanting to push the kind of change THEY believe in. It's due to the Republicans' determination to stop any kind of change in its tracks. The Dems have yielded repeatedly to oppositionists (including some Dems) to water down the bill, but each time they've compromised, the oppositionists have moved the goal posts and demanded more concessions.

So Maxwell,

It is ok for your elected officials to pass laws that they do not know or have not read? Guess you are one of the people to stupid to read and understand things on your own. I want representatives to know the full impact of laws they are creating. This piece of garbage will be a mess for at least the next decade. And, it will not be deficit neutral. Far from it. But, there is hope, because elections are just around the corner.

Rob. I hope and pray you are not the Rob Maxwell I know from Kindergarden through high school with at ERHS.

If this is you, I KNOW you are smarter than the average bear, but c'mon, you cannot be serious about your opinion that the repubs (I'm Independent) were delaying. They were SHUT OUT with any and all of the items they wanted to see in the bill.

Just like high school, remember? The jocks could miss 200 days of school, flunk every class, be the biggest drunks at prom, but everyone else had to toe the line.

That's what's happening here. The Dems are shoving it down the throats of the American citizen. Its all about ego, power, corruption and control.

I know you can see this!!!

clotho Whats the RUSH you will not see any thing for FOUR years LMFAO

Many will have already died great job by the DEMS and odumbo

You are saying that Americans don't want to help the needy Americans, where do you live Mars?

Patriot, i guess you support redistribution of wealth, where do you live, in Sherwood Forest?

pat, we already help the needy! You know what FICA and SS deductions are, assuming you get a paycheck? Ever heard of Medicaid, Medicare, Food Stamps, Headstart, Welfare, Vocational Rehab, ETC??? We already help every person that needs help in some form or fashion. That's not even bringing into play all the groups like Samaritan's Purse, Salvation Army, Red Cross, Goodwill, etc... I help people all the time, but this isn't helping people. Become better informed as to what this really is-carte balche for insurance companies to make 90 Million peoples' worth of profits off of 30 Million people that have been uninsurable. I'm tired of paying for people that won't help themselves get up, except to get the checks I pay for. About time the needy helped themselves to stand on their own 2 feet instead of the taxpayer till. People CAN NOT be denied treatment at a PUBLIC hospital under Federal law already. But they sure as hell can be denied at a doctor's office. Just wait until they refuse treatment on all the government plans. It's coming, but I suppose you'll force the doctors to treat them too, just like forcing us to buy something we may not want. See how that works when medical schools fold due to decreased enrollment. Then you can try to understand Punjab when he's giving you advice to follow on your Rx's or personal care.

I make less than 16,000 a year (working full time). I am able to pay my bills and groceries and have never had any public assistance. Tell me how I'm going to be able to help others less fortunate, seems like I will be in that category really soon.

The lazy people that sit around and hold their hands out and whine and beg for more and more really irrate me. Public assistance should last for a short period of time and not their life time.

What I am seeing with young people now is that they have no plans on working, they say that everything they need Obama will give them (house, food, clothing, cars, credit cards, cell phones, ipods, etc) and they don't have to pay a dime. Our future generation........blows the mind.

We don't mind helping needing families, not illegals and the lazy. In fact we already help the needy with our City, State and federal taxes. When it comes to helping the need The next time my property taxes come around where do i sent the bill

you are correct I as well as many others wont disagree with you, hence the reason to get rid of them all. To start new with a set of laws that wont allow our representatives to do what they are doing now. Libs can blame this one or reps can blame that one its all the same We The People have to force a change or it will never change from the way it is now.

So everyone just go ahead and argue party lines, the ones that do are the ones in deniel of the truth.

On page 92 there is also a added margin that ensures you make what the union worker makes. Sounds nice unless you own a business and then can you say unemployment. Union pay offs.

Very unhappy and confused person and I am being kind

onePatriot,

Kind of like this piece of crap legislation, and I am being more than kind.

If this is truly supposed to be good legislation, then why not allow sufficient time for all legislators to have sufficient time to read this gargantuan monstrosity before demanding a vote. Of course, Nelson and Landrieu do not need to read it........since they have already been bought and paid for like prostitutes. Only problem here is that the American people are the ones who will get screwed by this bill.

I agree this will be one terrible mistake, forced by the Presidents saying he must have the bill this year. The bill is so large that there are bound to be contradictions in it and who knows how much pork. So much for the Presidents promise of transparency in government. We need to get rid of everyone in Washington over the next 4 years by voting them out of office, and make our government accountable.

Hmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!

Most of us would agree that replacing the Current set of crooks is a good thing, but many of us would also like to ask---"How do we know that the new people will not be as Crooked as the last set ???"

The only way is to keep replacing the Congress on a regular basis, so they do not get entrenched. We have to many Senators who have been in the Senate or House since I was in college.

Senators: Byrd 1959, Inouye 1963, Leahy 1975, Lugar 1977, Hatch 1977, Baucus 1978, Cochran 1978, Levin 1979, Dodd, 1981, Grassley 1981, Specter 1981. Lets make a limit of 3 terms. (18 yrs)

House of Rep. Dingwell 1955, Conyers 1965, Obey 1969, Rangel 1971, Young 1971, Regula, 1973, Stark 1973, Young 1973, Murtha 1974, Miller 1975, Waxman 1975, Oberstar 1975, Markey 1976, Dick 1977, Kildee 1977, Rahall 1977, Skelton 1977. Lets set the limit to 6 terms (12 years).

While we will always get jerks in government whether they be Republicans, Democrats or other groups we can begin to limit the damage they can do. By also requiring all bills must be fully reported to the American people prior to it being passed. This way there will truly be transparency in government.

Hmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!

out of work-683218---Well said except I would give the Senators one two terms and the House people 3 terms.

Better to keep it short: and the President only 1 term.

Obama would never say exactly what he meant, Buster. This statement is not nuanced enough for the "orator" to cover himself when the public revolts over this bill and the way that congress has conducted itself.

and they never will most likely

Don't bet on it!

Oh look a talking pig!

It'll be a long time before republican's get the 60 majority votes needed to do what they want, thanks to the Bush Administration.