I was doing all my ex-wife's close friends and she still doesn't know about it. They are my spies now. She thought I was screwing the Chinese language tutor who came to help her learn the language though, but I never touched that woman. Is my wife dense or am I just good at deception? I don't think either are true. I never tried to hide what I was doing.
All I can say is you didn't live with the spoiled, manipulative little princess. I spent the last 5 years of that relationship trying to create a way out. In the end, I still had to just walk because she wouldn't let go.
1) why did you marry her? and 2) why did you cheat? Cheating wasn't better than leaving. I know it's complicated, but really how did it change the outcome?
The finding that women are more bothered by an emotional infidelity is evidently behind the male cheater's cry when exposed of "she didn't mean a thing to me!"
The story needs copyeditor. She refers to sexual "discretions" when it should be INdiscretions. She mistakenly misconstrues the actual phrase "deep seated" for the erroneous "deep seeded." (Ask any dictionary, and the linguistic experts.)
Lastly, a relationship study based on a population of undergraduates? Are you kidding? What does anyone that young know about relationships, the give and take, ebb and flow . . . it makes no sense to be basing conclusions on a too young and inexperienced in life population.
You make really great points. My husband and I were married in our last year of undergrad; back then I would have been more upset by an emotional affair. Now, fifteen years into the marriage, I would be more upset by a physical affair. I think this is a maturing process not a lack of attachment on my part. This study seems too specific and small to be able to make accurate generalizations on human emotions. ( BTW, not worried about my husband having an affair of either kind--- lucked out and married an amazing man even though I was young and dumb--;)
This might be an important study group if you were trying to cultural programming, since they have not had enough life to be really experienced in this area?
Another question is how big the study group was and other issues about what sub-cultures they came from.
My thoughts exactly...the last place to do meaningful research about infidelity is a group of undergraduate students - especially when your sample is 3/4 female. I'd say a group of 500-800 from each decade would be a more meaningful study. 20-29, 30-39, etc.
What the heck do a bunch of college kids know? Interesting study....for 18-25 year olds. It really doesn't explain what its like when you are 35, not sleeping at night taking care of baby. Dealing with spouses post partum depression and gender disappointment as well as subtle hateful undertones of "you did this to me". When the whole, I'm not going to cook for you or do your laundry things starts in and the honey do list keeps growing. Then, one day you go to work feeling completely unloved and lonely and the hot intern wants a drink after work to secure a new position. Oh yeah....I said it. Don't even get me started on the deep freeze that starts when you bring home an elliptical machine two years later to work on the "baby weight". Know that screeching scolding sound a parakeet makes? Put that on your Ipod and press continuous play. That is marriage :)
WOW, you need some sleep, and a break, and a babysitter for the weekend. I have SO been where you are ( not the hot intern part) it does get better after all the kids are in school. so so sorry--but we all go through that
In the study of human evolution we see an inate desire to breed with multiple partners. This aspect of humanity is indeed what has propagated our species to the current domination of 6 billion. We owe our success as a species to the "Cheaters". So in the name of future species domination i say lift those skirts and drop those pants it is time to take one for the team folks! You may love your family and that is ok but try to remember to be a good citizen as well.
It seems men don't have a problem with their sexual infidelity, only their partners. I guess I still don't understand either one. Everyone has a choice, and why do some people choose to be unfaithful. It has to be that they don't put much store in their so called 'relationship". Otherwise they wouldn't make the choice to be with someone else, whether for sexual pleasure or emotional satisfaction. When everything is about what makes me happy, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?
I think this study will be replaced by the old evolutionary model again within a few years. The study has a huge response bias (college students) and runs in circles because it focuses on one subgroup while ignoring another. But maybe I'm just being too dismissive.....
Mom1206 mentions, "when everything is about what makes me happy, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?" Weak use of pronouns aside, she fails to grasp that the deeper issue is not caring what makes the OTHER person happy. Most of us deny things to our partners out of possessiveness and envy - among the worst of human emotions. American's silly attitudes towards sex and commitment are just an embarrassment. What matters most is commitment to each other no matter what comes along, not some Pilgrim's view of "cheating." We divorce each other at scorching rate, yet chastise one another over "infidelity," because we can't be honest about the basic flaw in forcing one another to be chaste (as so many relationships do without sex after a short time) or to lie to ourselves and our partners about the difficulties of monogamy.
'...not caring about what makes the OTHER person happy...' hit the nail on the head. I dated someone who when I told him that I wanted him to just send me a card (even just an e-card!) for our 1 yr. anniversary, nothing big, but that it was important that day be acknowledged, I didn't hear from him that day...nothing. Then five days later, I got a box of souvenirs from the trip he was on. He told me that if I tell him what I want, I won't get it. No joke. If I asked for something, he said he wouldn't do it. We are no longer together...thank goodness!
"A recent study found that men feel guiltier after a sexual discretion, while women feel guiltier after an emotional one." — isn't it 'indiscretion' or is this a Freudian slip?
You tested immature - hormonal raging young adults, and people (dismissive types) who don't want relationships already can't be cheating. And:
Every-time a man looks at a woman as a piece of meat - is already cheating. For their is sexual excitement solicited by a barely clad woman's posing. These 'men' are becoming emasculated, due to the negative feminine - there is a manipulation of energies occurring. As long as their penis is being stroked, everything's good. Men should learn how to tell women to put their clothes on, so they can interact with them on an equal level - but of course, many (on both sides of the fence) do not want this equality. This saying 'boys will be boys' really means, boys will be animals, and it's ok. Well guess what, it is not ok. Put your clothes back on, and men quit jacking off and quit letting women lead you around by your dicks.. Develop yourself in order to HAVE a real, rich, deep relationship with a real person. This is where the joy and magic in life can be found. Everything else, is lack of love and respect. For self and each other. We need real men, as leaders and role models...not manipulated milksops.
Roberta you misunderstand male sexuality. Just because a guy looks at a woman sexually doesn't mean they think less of women or that their stature is somehow reduced. It doesn't mean men regard them as just "pieces of meat". First for a man sex and love are often two separate things, sex is a need that gnaws at us not too unlike women who crave salt during that time of the month. The male drive is highly visual, and it's incredibly strong.
All men are wired this way, if you have heard otherwise from a man it was simply to make you feel better. Women who share your sentiments do a fine job to try and make men feel bad for being born the way we are, many of us are told we should feel bad to have such thoughts. Despite all this many men exercise self control, and can be faithful in a marriage. If you could have the thoughts of a man for a day I think you would be shell shocked at the frequency and strength of urges you experienced. No man should have to apologize for the natural desires we we're born with. You can immerse a man in the bible and still it won't change his underlying nature. Women who truly understand this about men can make their sexuality a strength when dealing with men.
Men will move mountains for women who know how to use their sexuality from a position of strength.
Does it really matter which type of cheating is "worse" ? Cheating is cheating, it's wrong no matter what. If you can't commit, then don't get involved in a committed relationship.
If I shared my story here some here would wonder why I haven't had an affair in my nearly 15 years of marriage. Honestly though I'm not really all that jealous of a person, my wife wouldn't have an affair, but if she did I would be more interested in having her video tape it for me. I'm sure this post will melt a few peoples brains here. I really don't care what people think anymore, it's quite liberating when you can reach that point.
I am one to put more of a value on both sexual and emotional fidelity. I would be very hurt with the sexual, but at the same time if you don't have your other there for you emotionally what is the point of a relationship. I feel that to have a great relationship you have to have both sexual and emotional fidelity there. A man or a woman who will cheat on you is not faithful in either area, so move on. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man who is faithful in both areas because the moment he is not it is over, I will kick his a** shortly after, problem fixed..lol. All joking aside a relationship has to have both to be truly fulfilling and powerful, take one over the other and you lose.One is not more important than the other to me.
In answer to Roberta, Vegas hit the nail on the head. My ex-wife's parents were very happily married for 65 years and my mother-in-law always said that if her husband stopped looking at women sexually, then something was wrong with him.
My husband, now my exhusband but we live together, cheated on me some years ago, and for all I know, still does. I'm not sure there's a point to knowing what causes the most hurt: emotional or sexual infidelity. I think the cheater delves into both types. And the spurned spouse is hurt by both. When the cheater's caught, he or she can expect, at the least, that the relationship is forever altered. Very difficult to lie to someone like a cheat does... these lies are numerous and pervasive, and expect trust again. The spurned spouse is also hurt by the lies. It's all betrayal. I maintain a relationship with my exhusband for a complex set of reasons, and one day, I may drop him altogether. And maybe I won't. I have been emotionally unfaithful. Don't feel a drop of guilt. I think that's what the cheat can expect. I have I suppose been a tad physically unfaithful. Again, don't feel a drop of guilt. I haven't been entirely physically unfaithful. I think I should one day. Why not? I haven't because I'm middle aged and busy. Really don't want the headache of silly attachments. People calling me about their day, and such. I'm probably the dismissive kind when it comes to sex, and since the days of the AIDS epidemic, hard to find people like I once could, who had sex and left.
I had, what I THOUGHT was a great relationship with my boyfriend (now husband). We've been together 12 years (married for 3 now). Shortlyafter he moved in I was on his computer, and discovered he was cheating on me. It really wasn't a relationship with anybody (that I'm aware of anyway). When he went to Ireland on business he would pay for an escort to come to his hotel. When I found out I wasn't sure how I felt. I felt hurt, deceived and pissed. We had sex ALL THE TIME, and it was great!! That's the part that puzzles me. Sex isn't now, or will ever be, the same. What was sacred and special to me isn't anymore. I've caught him a few times, and he always lies about it. Until I throw out a name of the person he's @!$%#ed....then he can't deny it anymore. I don't trust him anymore...all the respect i had for him is gone...and i sure as hell don't give him sex all the time like i used to. Why am I married you ask?? Good question...sometimes I wonder why, but the real reason is I can't afford to be on my own. Finding work for a woman in her 50's is like finding a needle in a haystack. Maybe I should become a hooker?? I used to be really good at phone sex....hmmmm...maybe I should try that and see how it goes.
So I cheated on him and that didn't make me feel any better. Two wrongs don't make a right. He has no idea.. he totally trusts me. Sometimes I wonder how he'd feel if he found out I was screwing around on him?? I know he hasnt' come clean with eventhing... he has with some stuff I know about ....
If he could have been honest about it when I confronted him (numerous times) I really think I'd be inclined to believe him, but he's a good liar (or tries to be)....I give him the oportunity to tell the truth and until I come up with the proof... he tells me I'm crazy... CRAZY my ass...
Men and women alike, should think about the consequences of their relationships when they cheat. I know it'd be an embarassment to him if I filed for divorce...cuz you can bet I won't be covering his ass should that ever happen.
What we had (or what i thought we had) will never be the same. The relationship is tainted.. and it's too bad, because we were really good together until I caught his cheating ass...
A women always knows when her man cheats on her! Our society are full of cheats, its in our DNA!
I was doing all my ex-wife's close friends and she still doesn't know about it. They are my spies now. She thought I was screwing the Chinese language tutor who came to help her learn the language though, but I never touched that woman. Is my wife dense or am I just good at deception? I don't think either are true. I never tried to hide what I was doing.
Stay classy, tamusan.
All I can say is you didn't live with the spoiled, manipulative little princess. I spent the last 5 years of that relationship trying to create a way out. In the end, I still had to just walk because she wouldn't let go.
1) why did you marry her? and 2) why did you cheat? Cheating wasn't better than leaving. I know it's complicated, but really how did it change the outcome?
The finding that women are more bothered by an emotional infidelity is evidently behind the male cheater's cry when exposed of "she didn't mean a thing to me!"
The story needs copyeditor. She refers to sexual "discretions" when it should be INdiscretions. She mistakenly misconstrues the actual phrase "deep seated" for the erroneous "deep seeded." (Ask any dictionary, and the linguistic experts.)
Lastly, a relationship study based on a population of undergraduates? Are you kidding? What does anyone that young know about relationships, the give and take, ebb and flow . . . it makes no sense to be basing conclusions on a too young and inexperienced in life population.
You make really great points. My husband and I were married in our last year of undergrad; back then I would have been more upset by an emotional affair. Now, fifteen years into the marriage, I would be more upset by a physical affair. I think this is a maturing process not a lack of attachment on my part. This study seems too specific and small to be able to make accurate generalizations on human emotions. ( BTW, not worried about my husband having an affair of either kind--- lucked out and married an amazing man even though I was young and dumb--;)
This might be an important study group if you were trying to cultural programming, since they have not had enough life to be really experienced in this area?
Another question is how big the study group was and other issues about what sub-cultures they came from.
My thoughts exactly...the last place to do meaningful research about infidelity is a group of undergraduate students - especially when your sample is 3/4 female. I'd say a group of 500-800 from each decade would be a more meaningful study. 20-29, 30-39, etc.
What the heck do a bunch of college kids know? Interesting study....for 18-25 year olds. It really doesn't explain what its like when you are 35, not sleeping at night taking care of baby. Dealing with spouses post partum depression and gender disappointment as well as subtle hateful undertones of "you did this to me". When the whole, I'm not going to cook for you or do your laundry things starts in and the honey do list keeps growing. Then, one day you go to work feeling completely unloved and lonely and the hot intern wants a drink after work to secure a new position. Oh yeah....I said it. Don't even get me started on the deep freeze that starts when you bring home an elliptical machine two years later to work on the "baby weight". Know that screeching scolding sound a parakeet makes? Put that on your Ipod and press continuous play. That is marriage :)
WOW, you need some sleep, and a break, and a babysitter for the weekend. I have SO been where you are ( not the hot intern part) it does get better after all the kids are in school. so so sorry--but we all go through that
Kallie, after a rant like that you actually threw in some support and encouragement? You are golden. Thank you. What a good surprise.
Poor guy, sounds like there were some issues way before the arrival of a baby...hope things work out for the better.
Yesterday I was skeptical about the results of this study. Today, I am a starting to see the relevance.
Thanks for the encouragement Kate.
In the study of human evolution we see an inate desire to breed with multiple partners. This aspect of humanity is indeed what has propagated our species to the current domination of 6 billion. We owe our success as a species to the "Cheaters". So in the name of future species domination i say lift those skirts and drop those pants it is time to take one for the team folks! You may love your family and that is ok but try to remember to be a good citizen as well.
It seems men don't have a problem with their sexual infidelity, only their partners. I guess I still don't understand either one. Everyone has a choice, and why do some people choose to be unfaithful. It has to be that they don't put much store in their so called 'relationship". Otherwise they wouldn't make the choice to be with someone else, whether for sexual pleasure or emotional satisfaction. When everything is about what makes me happy, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?
I think this study will be replaced by the old evolutionary model again within a few years. The study has a huge response bias (college students) and runs in circles because it focuses on one subgroup while ignoring another. But maybe I'm just being too dismissive.....
Mom1206 mentions, "when everything is about what makes me happy, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?" Weak use of pronouns aside, she fails to grasp that the deeper issue is not caring what makes the OTHER person happy. Most of us deny things to our partners out of possessiveness and envy - among the worst of human emotions. American's silly attitudes towards sex and commitment are just an embarrassment. What matters most is commitment to each other no matter what comes along, not some Pilgrim's view of "cheating." We divorce each other at scorching rate, yet chastise one another over "infidelity," because we can't be honest about the basic flaw in forcing one another to be chaste (as so many relationships do without sex after a short time) or to lie to ourselves and our partners about the difficulties of monogamy.
'...not caring about what makes the OTHER person happy...' hit the nail on the head. I dated someone who when I told him that I wanted him to just send me a card (even just an e-card!) for our 1 yr. anniversary, nothing big, but that it was important that day be acknowledged, I didn't hear from him that day...nothing. Then five days later, I got a box of souvenirs from the trip he was on. He told me that if I tell him what I want, I won't get it. No joke. If I asked for something, he said he wouldn't do it. We are no longer together...thank goodness!
"A recent study found that men feel guiltier after a sexual discretion, while women feel guiltier after an emotional one." — isn't it 'indiscretion' or is this a Freudian slip?
You tested immature - hormonal raging young adults, and people (dismissive types) who don't want relationships already can't be cheating. And:
Every-time a man looks at a woman as a piece of meat - is already cheating. For their is sexual excitement solicited by a barely clad woman's posing. These 'men' are becoming emasculated, due to the negative feminine - there is a manipulation of energies occurring. As long as their penis is being stroked, everything's good. Men should learn how to tell women to put their clothes on, so they can interact with them on an equal level - but of course, many (on both sides of the fence) do not want this equality. This saying 'boys will be boys' really means, boys will be animals, and it's ok. Well guess what, it is not ok. Put your clothes back on, and men quit jacking off and quit letting women lead you around by your dicks.. Develop yourself in order to HAVE a real, rich, deep relationship with a real person. This is where the joy and magic in life can be found. Everything else, is lack of love and respect. For self and each other. We need real men, as leaders and role models...not manipulated milksops.
Roberta you misunderstand male sexuality. Just because a guy looks at a woman sexually doesn't mean they think less of women or that their stature is somehow reduced. It doesn't mean men regard them as just "pieces of meat". First for a man sex and love are often two separate things, sex is a need that gnaws at us not too unlike women who crave salt during that time of the month. The male drive is highly visual, and it's incredibly strong.
All men are wired this way, if you have heard otherwise from a man it was simply to make you feel better. Women who share your sentiments do a fine job to try and make men feel bad for being born the way we are, many of us are told we should feel bad to have such thoughts. Despite all this many men exercise self control, and can be faithful in a marriage. If you could have the thoughts of a man for a day I think you would be shell shocked at the frequency and strength of urges you experienced. No man should have to apologize for the natural desires we we're born with. You can immerse a man in the bible and still it won't change his underlying nature. Women who truly understand this about men can make their sexuality a strength when dealing with men.
Men will move mountains for women who know how to use their sexuality from a position of strength.
#9-1
"If nay man is in Christ he is a new creation: old things have passed away, behold all things become new"
Now, whose words do you think have authority, yours or God's?
You, friend, speak for yourself, but don't' claim things for others you know nothing about!
Does it really matter which type of cheating is "worse" ? Cheating is cheating, it's wrong no matter what. If you can't commit, then don't get involved in a committed relationship.
If I shared my story here some here would wonder why I haven't had an affair in my nearly 15 years of marriage. Honestly though I'm not really all that jealous of a person, my wife wouldn't have an affair, but if she did I would be more interested in having her video tape it for me. I'm sure this post will melt a few peoples brains here. I really don't care what people think anymore, it's quite liberating when you can reach that point.
I am one to put more of a value on both sexual and emotional fidelity. I would be very hurt with the sexual, but at the same time if you don't have your other there for you emotionally what is the point of a relationship. I feel that to have a great relationship you have to have both sexual and emotional fidelity there. A man or a woman who will cheat on you is not faithful in either area, so move on. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man who is faithful in both areas because the moment he is not it is over, I will kick his a** shortly after, problem fixed..lol. All joking aside a relationship has to have both to be truly fulfilling and powerful, take one over the other and you lose.One is not more important than the other to me.
Complete breakdown of morals in America I say. I blame the 60's for a lot of issues in today's society; including this one.
All cheating is good if you had an ex-wife like mine!!
In answer to Roberta, Vegas hit the nail on the head. My ex-wife's parents were very happily married for 65 years and my mother-in-law always said that if her husband stopped looking at women sexually, then something was wrong with him.
What about golfer Phil Mickelson? Is he cheating by using the old Ping wedges with square grooves?
who paid for this STUPID study??!!
My husband, now my exhusband but we live together, cheated on me some years ago, and for all I know, still does. I'm not sure there's a point to knowing what causes the most hurt: emotional or sexual infidelity. I think the cheater delves into both types. And the spurned spouse is hurt by both. When the cheater's caught, he or she can expect, at the least, that the relationship is forever altered. Very difficult to lie to someone like a cheat does... these lies are numerous and pervasive, and expect trust again. The spurned spouse is also hurt by the lies. It's all betrayal. I maintain a relationship with my exhusband for a complex set of reasons, and one day, I may drop him altogether. And maybe I won't. I have been emotionally unfaithful. Don't feel a drop of guilt. I think that's what the cheat can expect. I have I suppose been a tad physically unfaithful. Again, don't feel a drop of guilt. I haven't been entirely physically unfaithful. I think I should one day. Why not? I haven't because I'm middle aged and busy. Really don't want the headache of silly attachments. People calling me about their day, and such. I'm probably the dismissive kind when it comes to sex, and since the days of the AIDS epidemic, hard to find people like I once could, who had sex and left.
I wrote a blog entry in response to this article:
http://redlilypad.blogspot.com/2010/02/jealousy-nature-vs-nurture.html
All I know is that if a guy cheats, emotionally or physically, he's getting dumped. End of story.
I wish my ex-wife had shared your mentality... i swear she got shorter, fatter, and uglier every year.
Do you men know that for you to have an inflated ego, is only a cover -up for inferiority complex issue underneath?
i like what they do back in the old age. hang them in public & stone them!!!
I had, what I THOUGHT was a great relationship with my boyfriend (now husband). We've been together 12 years (married for 3 now). Shortlyafter he moved in I was on his computer, and discovered he was cheating on me. It really wasn't a relationship with anybody (that I'm aware of anyway). When he went to Ireland on business he would pay for an escort to come to his hotel. When I found out I wasn't sure how I felt. I felt hurt, deceived and pissed. We had sex ALL THE TIME, and it was great!! That's the part that puzzles me. Sex isn't now, or will ever be, the same. What was sacred and special to me isn't anymore. I've caught him a few times, and he always lies about it. Until I throw out a name of the person he's @!$%#ed....then he can't deny it anymore. I don't trust him anymore...all the respect i had for him is gone...and i sure as hell don't give him sex all the time like i used to. Why am I married you ask?? Good question...sometimes I wonder why, but the real reason is I can't afford to be on my own. Finding work for a woman in her 50's is like finding a needle in a haystack. Maybe I should become a hooker?? I used to be really good at phone sex....hmmmm...maybe I should try that and see how it goes.
So I cheated on him and that didn't make me feel any better. Two wrongs don't make a right. He has no idea.. he totally trusts me. Sometimes I wonder how he'd feel if he found out I was screwing around on him?? I know he hasnt' come clean with eventhing... he has with some stuff I know about ....
If he could have been honest about it when I confronted him (numerous times) I really think I'd be inclined to believe him, but he's a good liar (or tries to be)....I give him the oportunity to tell the truth and until I come up with the proof... he tells me I'm crazy... CRAZY my ass...
Men and women alike, should think about the consequences of their relationships when they cheat. I know it'd be an embarassment to him if I filed for divorce...cuz you can bet I won't be covering his ass should that ever happen.
What we had (or what i thought we had) will never be the same. The relationship is tainted.. and it's too bad, because we were really good together until I caught his cheating ass...
Comments???