I have met two vets in my time that I wondered why in the world they became vets in the first place. There is a vet here, one of 5 in the on-call rotation for emergencies, and without fail, when a customer calls the dispatch to find out which vet is on-duty for emergencies and his name comes up, most people either groan or postpone the need to for help. I cannot begin to tell you how awful that is.

All of the vets I have otherwise had the pleasure of doing business with were great folks.

The one other doc I didn't care for I stopped going to see a few years back. I used to do a lot of work in rescue (20+yrs) and I would bring in cats for an exam and for shots. She insisted they all get rabies vaxes regardless of whether or not the cats were indoor only. I started noticing in my older cats (<7yrs of age or so), that they would end up with kidney failure within 4-6 weeks of the rabies shot. So I delayed the shots for a couple just to see if maybe it was something else, and had kidney function tests run before the shots were given. The next 3 older cats with perfect tests, died of kidney failure again within 4-6 weeks. So I refused to let her give the shots anymore if the cat was older. She went ballistic and told me I was a horrible pet owner so I left the practice. After the deaths of 5-6 cats within weeks of a rabies shot, I sure would have been irresponsible to let her continue.

With my current vet, I explained the situation and that I want vaxes given one per visit and no rabies vaxes over 5yrs, and she was fine with that. I haven't had a single cat die over the last 4-5 years since then (and no issues with rabies). I have 9 cats over the age of 5yrs.

It may be that just like in human healthcare, you often have to be your own (or in this case, your pet's) advocate to get the best care.

Malpractice lawsuits against vets resulting in costly malpractice insurance rates?! Sounds to me like a bunch of idle lawyers mining for new ambulances to chase. But what the hell, if foolish pet owners insist on paying much higher vet costs, I'm sure we can accommodate them

Don't start suing the veterinarians! It will only mean we will not be able to take our pets to the dr at all, we will not be able to get pets. Thousands more animals will die in shelters alone. This is ridiculous. Look where the medical profession is. Grow up and face life, face reality. Mistakes happen, heart breaking mistakes. That's why they call them mistakes. You know all those little papers you sign for yourself and your pet before they go in forprocedures? That's what they SAY!

Support a lawyer and sue your vet.

It's just like any other profession, in that some providers are good at what they practice, and others are not.

I can tell within minutes whether or not the vet is genuinely trying to help, or genuinely trying to get paid......or both.

Nothing wrong with making money, as long as you put my pet's well-being ahead of your new car.

I've dealt with as many caring vets, as I have the "move 'em through like cattle" type doctors, and God know's there are plenty to choose from. So if you don't like them, hit 'em where it hurts! The wallet.

In general, I avoid the vet at all costs. It seems like my pets live longer without all these new "beneficial" products.

But, if your dog eats rat poison, and you're not quite sure what to do, rest assured there is an emergency vet there that will happily tell you: "You need to bring him in", even after you've explained to him that you've been painting your house and drinking all afternoon, but not before he makes sure you understand he doesn't condone driving if you've been drinking, (Am I supposed to call a cab?) and charge you $185 to make him throw-up, which I could have done at home with a penny's worth of hydrogen peroxide.

But other than that, it's a noble profession.lol

I've always been a big advocate for researching veterinarians, as there had been bad apples, especially in the ER settings, late nighters, etc... . I've now found several vets that I don't hestitate to give names out to those who are in need of one they can trust. And, a 24 hr. emergency clinic that is top notch, day or night.

I was a bit worried when this article first appeared, but completely agree with this excerpt:

If any of these mistakes had occurred in human patients, they’d be classified as medical errors worthy of investigation, public reporting and professional discipline, including dismissal.

That is what needs to happen across the medical board... human animals and our companion animals alike. Not what I was worried this article may have been... AGAINST TORT REFORMS. I've noticed more and more of these articles coming out recently....

For any that are buying into some of the chearleading going on for "no tort reforms" there ARE much better ways to deal with the bad apples and incompetents. They can spin whatever, however, .... most of us will still see the truth, and demand tort reforms be part of any health care reforms (should some actual ones be discussed there on the HIll).

if it’s a big problem, it would have been addressed by legislation,

These people are hilarious. The problem lies in the FACT that the more someone is paid the less responsibility they actually have.

Animal medicine is so diferent from human medicine. When you have something wrong, your doctor will run every test available to determine treatment. In animal medicine, cost often plays a role in determining treatment. Your vet may advise "it could be this, and it will cost $2000 to diagnose & treat or we could try this that costs $300 and see what happens" these factors are never considered in human medicine. Will you be happy when your vet advises you your pet needs $5000 woth of treatment and when you refuse you must sign a refusal of care cert and be reported? Many times the person who declined the more expensive option howls the loadest when the cheaper option does not work for their pet & they don't want to pay.

My wife has worked at a Vetrinary Clinic as a Certified Vet Technitian for several years. These problems come from 2 sources:

1) The Vets gain their experience by making mistakes on animlas. Many are trained abroad and businesses hire a mixture of trained and untrained Doctors in order to save money. Personalities and turf wars are waged at the pets' expense.

2) They do the same for Vet Techs. They have the trained ones that pull in $17 hourly and up... and they hire a bunch at minimum wage, while promising them eventual high pay... these 2nd class vet techs are horrible at reading medication amounts, administering medicine, etc..., but unfortunately certified vet techs like to act like Doctors and interact with patients, so they leave much of the vital foot work to the minimum wagers.

All these scenarios I read about (my wife read along with me) fall into these two categories. Very sad... the poor animals have no voice. Only if the walls could talk... People treat animals like crap. From those "so called" well meaning health professionals, to farmers, pet shops, vets, and trainers to outright abusers. Horses are some of the worst treated animals. I live in a rural community, and while there are EXCEPTIONS (capitalized for all the idiots that will miss that word), by large the animals suffer in silence and without any justice.

While it is definitely possible for a vet to make a mistake I found this section of the article the most disturbing:

Stenfani Olsen said Toonces, her diabeticcat, spent the last two years of his life grappling with severe brain damage, while she spent $16,000 caring for him. It turned out that the vet who cared for Toonces, Marc S. Katz, of Silver Spring, Md., had allowed his adult son, who was not licensed as a veterinary technician, to administer insulin to the animal without supervision, records show.

She forced that cat to suffer for 2 more years!!!!! The owner was not a licensed veterinary technician, but it was OK for her to give insulin to the cat, but not for the son of the Vet? I have cared for hundreds of animals in my life and loved them all very much, but I would never force an animal to suffer as the article describes. I will give the article the benefit of the doubt, if they were using sensationalist descriptions to encourage an emotional reaction. (You certainly got one out of me!) Let alone the $16000, that is a whole other story.

Take the time to make sure the vet is one you are compatible with.

I am so saddened by this article; the press is trying to make it seem as if the general public is consistently wronged by the veterinary profession without recourse. This is ridiculous. This is a profession made up largely of animal loving individuals who care as much for their patients as the pet owners themselves. Veterinarians are the LOWEST paid medical profession, yet they graduate with an average of over $100,000 in debt. They must also purchase the same x-ray machines, ultrasounds, microscopes, and other expensive medical equipment as human doctors. Clients fight tooth and nail against paying a veterinarian a few hundred dollars to perform a procedure that would cost many thousands of dollars in a human hospital. You simply cannot expect the same standard of care until you are willing to pay the same price for that care. Even so, every veterinarian I know does everything within their power to provide the best possible care to each and every animal they see. When a complaint is brought against them, it is generally taken very seriously.

I must say that I am somewhat biased on this particular topic; after all, I am a veterinay school student myself. However, articles such as this one leave me feeling bitter and disenchanted. I have worked extremely hard to become the best veterinarian I can possibly be, and I have done it because I genuinely love animals and wish to help them every single day. Will I make any mistakes in my career? Likely so. I am not perfect, after all. I can only pray that my mistakes will not undo every bit of good that I can do with the rest of my career because the client sues me for every penny I will ever earn because they think I don't care about their pet. Our profession cares; we have each given up so much to work with the animals we love. After all, we could have gone to medical school and made twice the money! To be portrayed as a careless, incompetent profession is extraordinarily disheartening. It is unfortunate that the media can reach so many people with such a negative message.

Hey yvonne...just so you know, rabies vaccination is required by law. Even if your cats live in the house. It is a HUMAN health concern. Here's what happens if your cat bites someone and you are not current on rabies vaccination...depending on where you live and the laws in your area, you cat may be quarantined (at your expense) OR your cat may be seized, euthanized, have it's head cut off and it's brain submitted for rabies testing in order to protect HUMAN health...there is no pre-mortem test to verify rabies infection in animals. There is also not a rabies vaccine anywhere that causes kidney failure...your "scientific method" leaves a bit to be desired. Lots of things can cause kidney failure, but I've never heard of a vaccine doing it. If the cats were older, as you say, well, older cats commonly have kidney failure, and strays, then you have no idea of their history and what they may already have going on. Use your brain, woman.

Vets are human, they make mistakes. What other industry requires 100% perfection outside of the healthcare profession? Add to that the fact that vets must learn ALL specialities and learn them for how many different species of animals, reptiles, even fish! Yes, they can specialize in small animal or large animal (equine, bovine, etc), exoticx, or whatever, but they learn in four years more information than doctors learn in four, that is a given. Vets learn dental, cardiac, endocrinology, anesthesia, osteo, the list is endless!! Not to mention behavior --- and they must treat patients who cannot tell them where it hurts nor can the patient even make the decision when to go to the doctor! Vets must learn anesthesia for a rat, a snake, a parakeet, a horse, oh, and that includes pediatric patients, geriatric patients and pregnant patients. They must learn the medicines for all these different diseases and applications along with the dosing, etc. Vets are surgeons. It is now expected that vets learn all the "natural" medicines along with hydro therapy and acupuncture. I can see where a mistake could be made. However...........

When a vet makes a gross mistake, it should be dealt with by the licensing board of that state. There should be ramifications for those who do not take seriously their patient care. Licenses should be pulled for gross negligence as in the case of the vet allowing his son to inject the cat with insulin unsupervised. If the vets' associations and licensing boards address these issues internally, then there is no need to bring in lawyers and laws. BUT, they need to do something immediately and it needs to be effective.

I agree with those who say keep the lawyers out of this!!! Lawyers will ultimately result in skyrocketing vet costs, mandatory pet insurance to pay for those costs, and ultimately, we'll end up with what is being rammed down our throats in human healthcare.

armyvetgirl

Mind your own business. Let yvonne do what she wants and you do what you want... You are not the pet police! She sounds compassionate about her cats, you don't...

My dog went to get a little cyst removed from the vet last year. It was a very small surgery instead my dog had a heart attack and died in vets office over a small cyst doctor said we should remove...

No ones perfect but if you make a mistake why not say that? If it wasnt for vet asking us to do a minor surgery over something thats not needed than to top it have our dog killed???

I dont ever trust vets every again after this. I still miss her dearly...

I do care...I don't want to see her cats tested for rabies when SHE could have avoided it with proper preventive care. I'm sorry, I guess I shouldn't suggest that people obey the law. Maybe she just doesn't realize the ramifications. My job (as a vet) is to educate and that is what I was doing.

Oh yeah, and part of the Veterinary Oath..."Protect the public health"

Disenchanted; I wish you all the best.... the world needs people like you (at least, the animal world).

I place value on my furry friends as high as any other family members. They're a part of my life. I do a great deal of research before seeing any vet, or use the grapevine for first chance encounters (those are more of emergency in nature; just always listening and remembering, as my dogs come up in converstion A LOT).

I'm not saying that all vets do this, but I've noticed it's more common; known, established veterinarians will grow their practice by adding new docs. The problem is, people that know and DO trust the original vet are skeptical of the newbies, and in some of my own experiences, it's with good reason. They're looking to make more, and take the extra bucks from partnershipping and not supervising or working the new ones into the practice they've taken a long time to build. I guess it may be greed, or loss of income from defaulted payments, not certain really.

When I was younger, my parent raised Great Danes. That had one trusted vet, and I spent a lot of time going with my mom for visits there. Others had simliar trust. As our vet aged, people did start asking 'what when...'. He took in another vet for his eventual replacement, and worked him into the practice. Naturally, people were skeptical, and it take 2-3 years before people really accepted him as being the same, more or less.... the original vet had his replacement in for surgeries, consults, end of life,.. the whole shebang. Not only did it work as the practice is still alive and well, but a very high quality vet came to be... and, trust and confidence were maintained. Great for the pets and their human friends!

I agree with disenchanted...being a veterinary technician and pet owner i understand the quality of care people expect as well as the care i would want for my own animals. Veterinarians have to go to med school too and specialize in animal medicine but do not get the salary of a medical doctor. I understand that mistakes are made, and as much as they say action is not taken, often times it is! however, some of the "mistakes" that are made are not really so much mistakes as they are lack of a diagnosis. Veterinarians dont get to make the call to do all the testing known to man like human doctors are...the pet owners are the ones who call the shots. If they do not want the most expansive blood panel and x-rays due to cost we have to abide by their wishes. If the pet dies on our watch it is then our fault for not finding the problem when in all reality we were not given the permission to find it. There have been many occasions where a suspected diagnosis is made but a definititive diagnosis could not be made because of lack of further testing. For example it was not stated what the pathologist in this article actually studied to find a diagnosis of osteosarcoma. The pathologist may have only had an x-ray to go off of and in that case a suspected diagnosis was likely made. If he actually had a bone marrow biopsy and studied that under the microscope and made the misdiagnosis than yes he should have been investigated. There is no excuse for malpractice but what people need to understand in the veterinary field is that a lot of the time we are given very little to work with and have to make a diagnosis based on half of a puzzle. It is hard to get the full and accurate picture with pieces missing. Now the vet who did botched surgery on the wrong leg and then went on to botch the leg that actually needed fixing is the true malpractice case. He had all the pieces but did not read his chart obviously or was in too big of a hurry to pay attention and there is really no excuse for that. (the only question i have to that is why if the surgeon botched the wrong leg would you let him even touch the other leg???)

armyvetgirl, actually there is a concern especially in elderly cats with rabies vaccine causing kidney damage.

cg, are you a vet? Just curious where your veiwpoint comes from. Just to be thorough, I did a search on a prominent veterinary forum (VIN) and can find no information to support such a claim. Vaccines are designed for "healthy" animals, so if an animal already had some degree of renal failure, then it is possible, though not common that the antigen-antibody complexes created by vaccination (any vaccination, not just rabies) could have some effect on already diminished renal function. Or, if the animal happens to have a severe vaccine reaction and resultant anaphylaxis (rabies is the least likely to cause such a reaction as most are unadjuvanted) that results in prolonged hypovolemia and shock that could cause an acute renal injury. In an otherwise healthy animal, all of the board certified experts comments regarding the topic are supportive of rabies vaccination in accordance with one's local laws. I support modified vaccination protocols for other infectious diseases (FVRCP, FeLV, etc) as appropriate for the individual animal's situation. Bringing in strays and not keeping your others vaccinated is a good way to spread disease throughout your population of cats. However, the issue remains that rabies is a zoonotic (transmissible to humans) disease and therefore of higher importance than the others. If yvonne is consistently bringing strays (or rescues, as she calls them) into her home and refuses to have them vaccinated for rabies, she is asking for trouble. With no known vaccination history, the victim of such a bite would have significant grounds to demand euthanasia and testing in order to protect their own health.

Thank you. I just received, from the State of Michigan Dept. of Agriculture, a nine page, double sided document, listing all the confirmed positive rabies cases in 2009 in Michigan. This is a HUGE increase and the largest in recent history. There were 66 cases and almost half were encounters with bats INSIDE the persons' house. The majority of those people had pets, many were "indoor-only" cats and an alarming number were unvaccinated. All unvaccinated animals were placed under 6 month mandatory quarantine or euthanized. I love it when people give medical opinions and feel qualified to do so because they have 16 cats, or some such thing. Don't wait until you wake up one day to find a bat in your bath towel and/or your unvaccinated cat brings one to you after it flies into the living room.

Have your bats vaccinated today.

I agree with yvonnemari that some people should not be vets. I have moved 4 times in 10 years with my five dogs. I have had a vet who was afraid of my German Shep, simply because he was "a big dog." I have had a vet who "examined" my rescue dog with her eyes shut (no joke), I have had a vet who "neutered" another rescue partly - meaning when I took the dog back to have stitches removed (10 yrs ago), the vet FORGOT TO REMOVE ONE TESTICLE....there are only TWO (I took the dog to another vet to remove the remaining one & made the bad vet pay for it), I had a vet tell me I should euthanize my healthy happy doberman mix when I took her in because her back hurt (she had a very slight slipped disk), I said can you please give her medicine for the pain and I'll keep her from running around so it can heal, the vet refused because my dog would become an addict!!! Took the dog to another vet who gave her pain meds and prednisone and told me to not let her run for a couple weeks - the dog was fine and running until the age of 15...she had one more bout of back trouble and the good vet and I did the same thing (as for the pain meds, the dog only had a 10 day supply - she was not an "addict)", she did not need to be euthanized (per the recommendation of the first vet) at the age of 7.

To be honest, I have had and have now a wonderful vet. It's a crap shoot - I have no problem leaving a vet's office (after paying a fortune for nothing) and going to another to keep my dog healthy. If the vet is an idiot, I walk out and go elsewhere. My neighbors love a vet who I do not like (they also put down a perfectly healthy dog when it's brother died, so they could get a matching pair of brother and sister pedigree dogs), I have a problem with a vet that will do that as well.

At UPCO.COM you can buy a bottle of 3-year rabies vaccine for less than $5.00 and they ship it on ice to most states along with injection needles...the vial gives 10 vaccinations, I go to the vet and pay around $40.00 for the SAME thing (I used to volunteer at a shelter and I gave all the vaccinations, so I know how to give them). The mark-up is ridiculous...so if people sued their vets, I think the vet's would be OK....Saline is not $75 for 16oz in the "real world."

they are caring animal lovers that do the best they can to keep your pet healthy

We have been using the same vet for 18 years and he goes above and beyond.

I have a 15 yr old dog that can't chew food anymore, plus she is going deaf and blind. I trust my vet completely, and when he says it is time to let her go, I will. But he also tells me that she is in no pain, and she does not need her senses for survival. Her appetite is great and she is usually very bouncy. I have worked as a vet tech in clinics and shelters (I am not licensed; all my training is OTJ), so I am able to know if an emergency visit is called for if something happens. One night she was having symptoms of poisoning, and our vet met us at the clinic at 10:30 on a Sunday night and never even charged an emergency fee. His patients are only referred to an emergency clinic when he is out of town.

We have 10 dogs of our own now, and they all come due for vacs at the same time. He comes to our house so we don't have to spend the day hauling dogs back and forth.

My aunt had a boxer for 13 years. When the vet told her there was nothing else he could do, the dog was already at the clinic (he had been admitted the day before). Our vet brought that dog back to my aunt's house and put him to sleep in the backyard under his favorite tree. Very few vets would do that.

In 18 years he has not lost any of his caring and compassion, and those are also qualities he requires for any staff member.

They have the trained ones that pull in $17 hourly and up... and they hire a bunch at minimum wage, while promising them eventual high pay... these 2nd class vet techs are horrible at reading medication amounts, administering medicine, etc

I am not certified and all my training has been OTJ, and I have never had any problems understanding and following orders, or with medicating.

And if anyone takes a vet tech job because of the promise of higher wages, they do not need to be working there in the first place.

I live in a rural community, and while there are EXCEPTIONS (capitalized for all the idiots that will miss that word), by large the animals suffer in silence and without any justice.

I think that is a problem in most rural areas; it certainly applies here. Our biggest problem in animal welfare is law enforcement; they don't think animal abuse is a priority. We had a major blow-up here about a year and a half ago. Dogs were in pens that were filthy, with no food and water. There were 2 dead dogs that the others had been eating; one of those was still alive when the others started eating him. It got a lot of news coverage for a while, but in the end nothing was done and no one was held accountable... and these were the CITY HOLDING PENS.

We can't do much with the large animals, but abused and neglected dogs have been known to 'disappear' in the middle of the night.

armyvetgirl

Mind your own business. Let yvonne do what she wants and you do what you want... You are not the pet police! She sounds compassionate about her cats, you don't...

armyvetgirl IS minding her own business... she's a vet and that is what vets do... the good ones, anyway. Besides, she is right. Not vaccinating your pets is a health risk to the animal, other animals, and humans.

Veterinarians have to go to med school too and specialize in animal medicine but do not get the salary of a medical doctor.

Plus, people are all put together the same. Vets have to learn dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.

IMy neighbors love a vet who I do not like (they also put down a perfectly healthy dog when it's brother died, so they could get a matching pair of brother and sister pedigree dogs), I have a problem with a vet that will do that as well.

As you should. And your neighbors are also bad pet owners and don't need more dogs. My vet would rather keep the dog and find it a home; he will not put a healthy animal down if it can possible be avoided. No reputable breeder would deal with them if they knew about that.

At UPCO.COM you can buy a bottle of 3-year rabies vaccine for less than $5.00 and they ship it on ice to most states along with injection needles...the vial gives 10 vaccinations, I go to the vet and pay around $40.00 for the SAME thing (I used to volunteer at a shelter and I gave all the vaccinations, so I know how to give them).

There is more to consider than cost there. If you give your pets rabies shots they will be protected, but you will not. If your pet bites someone and you have given the rabies vacs at home, it will be treated as if it has not been vaccinated. Other vacs are fine to give at home as long as you keep up with lot#, dates, etc... easiest way is to just hang on the the vial labels. With rabies, it will not be recognized unless it is given by a vet.

@armyvetgirl

I don't know where you are, but is your area having the Heartgard/+HW issue. This is mosquito central, so we have seen some positives even with ivermectin, and the Immiticide unavailability just compounds the problem. We can give doxycycline, but since it won't kill the adult males they can stay positive for a while.

So what would be a better way to make it clear how important it is not to cause this undo suffering - other than to sue? What might work better to make people more careful?

It will become like the human health care industry: waits for appointments, vet shortages, high insurance premiums. As it is now, everyone and their pet has a pet, and vet clinics are busy, busy. Plus, lots of people expect expert care and inividual time and attention for low cost, 24 hr availability, losts of freebies.

if the systems fails to compensate people for mistakes, and Vets are making ridiculous malpractice insurance premiums..then who benefits out of this?? the insurance industry of course..this almost sounds like the pathway for health care reform..Is the Government and Insurance Industry a team ??..A Legal Mafia is tormenting people and their pets....

Malpractice insurance is NOT expensive! This is a scare tactic.

Just wait.

The GREAT part of this new way to make millions of dollars via a lawsuit is that any pet owner can say things like, "My dog has suffered mentally and physically for years now and just isn't the same and I need $10 million," and the dog will never have to testify and then all you need is some animal lovers on the jury, and you're rich!

I might just go get a dog and take it to a vet and then sue!

Don't people just put their pets down anymore? People spend thousands of dollars getting hip sugery for a 14 year old dog - come on, doesn't anyone have common sense? Be thankful for the good years, put the old boy down and get a new puppy.

Malpractice insurance is not free and its cost will be passed on to the customers (the people, not the dogs).

teach-646943 - your example is extreme.

What if the dog is only a few years old and needs $5,000 worth in surgery?

Do you put your child down when it needs medical help and then make a new one? And don't even try to argue that this is something different.

Richard hopefully you were being sarcastic. There's a BIG difference between a child and a pet. My problem with vets has been the ones with no common sense and use crap logic like Richard's to pressure you into expensive surgery.

Wow comparing humans to animals someone needs to go to the loony bin

sds, You are so right, some people just don't understand the idea of love or understand that all lives matter not just those unfortunate enough to look or be related to them. We have to pity them, their lives are so much poorer then those of us truly capable of love and compassion.

sds, there is no comparison. Give me an animal anyday!

To We're in Trouble,

To a lot of people there is no difference between a child and a pet.

They both deserve the best medical care.

I have 2 cats and 1 dog, and have had cats all my life. I found one kitty as a stray when she was 7 weeks old and almost dead of malnutrition. The vet told me then that she may have permenant problems from that and die young, but you forget over time. When she was 7 yrs old she became very ill and I took her in to the vet. Their quick test showed 3 major systems in failure, and they offered to keep her overnight to stabilize her and run more thorough tests on her the next day. There was no way to fix the 3 failing systems that we had already identified; the best to hope for was to prolong her life and suffering at heaven knows what expense. I had her put down that day. This is where there is a huge difference between a beloved pet and a child. For my child I would have spent any amount of money we didn't have and consulted with experts from all over the globe, tried absolutely anything to save their live. I don't think I would ever give up. For my pet, I recognized there was nothing further I could do that wouldn't add to her suffering, was thankful she had had 7 healthy and happy years, and said a tearful goodbye.

We had a saying in law school: "be careful before you get rid of all the sleazy lawyers; you will need one some day."

Seems we have the same issue with both people and pets. We use lawsuits to enforce quality assurance in both medical industries. It would be so much better for standard of care if both medical professions would quit covering up errors, and instead develop methods of measuring, analyzing, and eliminating the causes of errors.

I've worked in manufacturing companies my entire adult life, including medical devices. I know firsthand that MD's "scream bloody murder" if anyone in the industry suggests their performance be subject to peer examination, review, and remedial action. Sounds like the veternarian industry has some of the same issues.

The cop investigated two accidents one day--the first involved a car running over a skunk and the second involved a car running over a lawyer. At the first accident--there were skid marks and at the second there were none....

Upon assuming control of Wallachia and Transylvania, Vlad the Impaler threw a party for all the Boyars (Lawyers). While they partied--he locked the doors and burned the building to the ground.

Don't let the lawyers sue vets over mistakes--or no one will be able to afford a pet!

With pets-owners have the ability to do something that they cannot do for their relatives--give them a painless death to end horrible suffering. IF lawyers get involved--more animals will suffer--needlessly.

For crying out loud everone who does something wrong should be held accountale.

I agree with you, money is the important thing in this industry. We bought two puppies that were sisters and one day they were wrestling. The smaller of the two broke her leg while playing. Sounds like there would be no problem right? Nope. The vet gave her too much anestesia (sp) and she never woke up after the operation. The vet still made us pay for the surgery, time, AND the anestesia that killed our dog!!!!!!!! I hate those people and I wish my family would have sued or something.

Caitlan, I am so sorry that you lost your pet the way you did. Pat

Anesthesia is ALWAYS a risk that should NEVER be taken lightly. There are perfectly healthy animals (and people) that are anesthetized for routine procedures that don't wake up. It's not that something was done wrong or too much of a particular drug was used, it's just life. The risks of anesthesia are what we have to live with, there is no way to get around it. We in the veterinary profession do the same monitoring during anesthesia that is done in human hospitals and we do it as safely as possible, but tragedies happen everyday. I'm sorry you lost your new puppy, but YOU made the decision to have her put under anesthesia and assumed the inherent risks. If you don't know what the risks associated with a particular procedure are ASK YOUR VET! Ignorance is no excuse.

An industry that only cares about money? If that were true, I doubt veterinarians would go through 8+ years of school, usually racking up at least $100,000 in student loans, to work long hours 7 days a week taking care of cranky people's pets just for the money. Most vets can expect to make about a third of what human doctors make. If they were only in it for the money, they would have just become a human doctor! Ever watch Dirty Jobs? About 80% of those jobs are things a vet would do. Being a veterinarian is not glamorous or easy, it is hard, backbreaking, dirty, smelly, and often heartbreaking. Vets become vets because they love what they do, and they enjoy taking care of animals. They understand better than anyone how important the human-animal bond is, and they work hard to make sure our pets are healthy and happy. Of course veterinarians are human and make mistakes, and often they suffer with guilt over their own errors, not because of the money they might lose, but because they genuinely care about the lives of their patients, and know exactly what you're going through when something happens to your pet.

You DVM Matt would not be a vet for my animals. Although you are right about the risks of anesthesia, you were very cold about one thing, you blamed the pet owner for signing the paper and knowing the risk. What the heck else is she supposed to do? Have her dog's leg fixed without it!? You also called her ignorant, nope, you definitely wouldn't be my vet.

Animals are living things, not cars or televisions. Every animal responds differently to treatments and medications. There are standards and recommendations for using drugs like anesthesia, but because every animal reacts differently, there are always risks. Veterinarians use consent forms to inform you of these risks. If you don't read it but sign it anyway, then you are ignorant. And if you do read it but don't understand, then I would think that you, someone who so obviously cares about their pet, will take the effort to find out more or ask the veterinarian.

DVM Matt wasn't being cold, he was being realistic, and any veterinarian who doesn't have the same outlook is not practicing in a way that benefits the patient or the client. The client has to understand that the outcome is not based solely on the veterinarian's actions, but has a lot to do with how the animal responds. When you sign a form to allow the vet to treat your animal, you are saying that you understand those risks, which means you cannot punish the vet when something goes wrong.

As a young veterinarian I am very sad about this article and some of the comments I have read here. Granted I have only been in practice for 4 years I can tell you I have meet my share of Veterinarians. Most of us care about our patients and clients and we deeply understand the human animal bond. After all almost all us have pets as members of our families. I also have to said that we are not just after people's money. We made it through Vet School with some serious sacrifices As some people have said already if we were only after client's money we would have been in different career choice.I work long hours in a difficult field and I am currently an Army Veterinarian. I can tell you that my goal every day when I go to work is to practice high quality medicine and to make a positive change in our Soldier's life by taking care of their pets. Do not judge the whole profession just because you had one bad experience.

Anesthesia can be different. Recently my dog, a yellow Labrador, had been operated for a tumor, located on her belly. Because her liver was not working properly and she was 12 years old, I asked a vet about the best and lightest anesthesia. They gave her a shot in the spine, the one, which is used for humans during a Caesarian section. The cost of this anesthesia was higher than the cost of the operation. Gven, which is her name, had a long seam all through her belly. However, she now recovered and is safe.

We have many problems with vets here in Russia as well. My dog had been operated last year for a tooth, which she broken while chewing a snack, big artificial bone. An infection spread and we had to have the tooth removed. She went through an operation under an anesthesia, which was hard for her. After this, in two weeks she had a cystitis, which we were curing by giving her antibiotics. As a result of this treatment her liver failed. She turned yellow, including her eyes white body and mouth. We brought her to the vet. After the analysis they suggested to keep her in a day care under permanent injections. They were cleaning her blood for a week. I was visiting her every day and taking her for a walk. My poor dog looked so sad. Her veins were all hard after many injections and inserted droppers. It was hard to find a vein to take a blood test. During her stay in the day care the vets were not taking her anything to protect her liver or cure it. Every day I was going there, there was another person meeting me and telling me something. My dog had no vet, who would lead her treatment, like we normally have for humans.

Here in Russia many things depend on personal contacts. I started calling my former classmates, who became professional veterinaries. The already knew my dog, because some years before I called them to my home to help her bring puppies. One of my friends told me that her relative was working in the vet, in which I had my dog under day care. She also gave me the mobile phone number of the surgeon, who appeared to be the Head of practice. She also contacted him about my case. He called me when I was in the underground on my way home. Oh, I told him everything! I spoke to him for an hour or so complaining about the treatment. And look – everything changed then. We were give one vet, whom we could meet during her working hours. My dog was given back to me. He recommended us a selection of drugs to treat her liver. We bought the best one, of course. My dog was put on a diet.

My friend, who is a vet herself, privately told me that this is a business now. All they are doing is making money. They were keeping my dog in a day care without proper treatment, simply cleaning her blood, because this way they could charge me for every day of her stay. It did not matter much for them that she was suffering pain and that her veins were all hurt.

The last thing we had was that operation for a tumor. The vet took the tumor for analysis and diagnosed cancer. However, they told me one sort of it, whereas in the result of the text (which I asked to print out) there is another name for it. The most important part is that my lovely dog is home. She loves to run outdoors and take snow bath. I love her very much. I believe in reincarnation. I think we all live more than once. And our pets live more than once. And, as Alice Bailey wrote, one day, many years and may be centuries from now, pets would reincarnate as humans. I do not know how long she would live. No-one knows how long he or she would live. I only hope that we will be together always.

With all my best wishes.

Galina from Moscow

Forgot to add that for the last operation the vet told us to buy 350 mg of plasma of dog’s blood. There is only one place in Moscow where you could buy it. And it is expensive. However, because my dog is 12 years old, had one operation less that a year ago, and her hemoglobin was low, they told us to buy it for the operation. This was what we did and brought it to the vet the day of the operation. Happily, the operation was a success. I think if proper care is given by the vet, then they can do much for the pets. They can avoid many unnecessary deaths, if they care enough. And the owners, who love their pets, should not suffer of the vet’s ignorance or lack of facilities. I have a message for the owners. Choose the best vet in your area. Insist that you have one person in charge for your pet. Discuss all opportunities they have. Consult all your friends on the matter. And, doing all you can for your pet, have a hope on God’s love.

OKS, if vets go through 8 years of school than they shouod be 8 years the smarter and know how to pay attention to a simple peice of paper in a chart every now and then so they can avoid doing surgery on the wrong leg...

"If there are negligent doctors — and there are probably a few in every system — if it's a big problem, it would have been addressed by legislation," he added.

Ahh...hope springs eternal

Are you kidding me?????? If vets only were in the business of making money than there would be NO WAY that 67% of Americans could have a freaking pet!!!!! Pets should not be a luxury but a gift. They are proven to help OUR health. If we make it too expensive to have pets, then WE WILL SUFFER!!!

Human Dr.'s have it much easier than vets. They only have to know one species - human. Vet's not only have to know about the major groups canine, feline, bovine, equine but hundreds of others.

It is harder to get into vet school than med school. Look it up!! I wish my vet studied human medicine.

I agree. Still, they are not the equivalant of humans (PETA propaganda aside).

an indepdent. it is a shame you are a pet owner. human limbs are no more valuable than pet limbs. this thinking is sick! there is no hierarchy in LIFE and living beings! I feel sorry for your pets.

PETA propaganda. There most certainly is a heirarchy to life.

An Independent-1507131

I agree. Still, they are not the equivalent of humans (PETA propaganda aside).

Yah but in Most cases they are Much Better than People.

Being human doesn't mean your better than any other life form on this planet. Just Arrogant

I hope that Cat Guardian (or anyone that thinks like Cat Guardian) is never put into a position of having to choose between saving their child's life and saving their pet's life. It would not be a hard choice for me. I feel for Cat Guardian's children (if any, which I doubt).

Being human doesn't mean your better than any other life form on this planet.

Ummm, yes, it does. At least as far as being a higher form of life is better.

Hierarchy to life, An Independent? Because you are an animal with a bigger brain pan than some other creatures who have as much right to be on this planet as you do? Science is only now studying and discovering the remarkable abilities of many animals to adapt and actually learn--not mimic. Those studies have so far yielded a recommendation that dolphins be accorded the same consideration and rights as humans. And no, no animal rights organization had any input to the study.

For many centuries, physically and mentally challenged humans were considered to be on the lower rung of the "hierarchy" and were treated as such, culminating in Hitler's determination that they must be obliterated because they could, in his warped mind, offer no measurable worth to society as he envisioned it. I'm certain we can all agree that he considered his dogs to be more valuable to his Reich than he did those poor souls he murdered.

My point is that it becomes a slippery slope when any life is treated as less worthy than another. All animals--those on 2 legs or those on 4---have their place and reason for being and must be equally valued and respected, regardless of who thinks they are in control.

Pat G,

Nice and well thought out response. I don't agree with your point of view, but I do respect that you did not just rant propaganda like so many do on this topic. That's a refreshing approach to the subject.

To an independent: No where in this article did anyone talk about chosing a child over a pet or vice versa. Stay on the subject...or are you here just to inflame and take us off the subject of VET ABUSE?

Thank you, A.I.--we can agree to disagree.

No where in this article did anyone talk about chosing a child over a pet or vice versa. Stay on the subject.

No, the article didn't bring that up...but YOU DID:

there is no hierarchy in LIFE and living beings!

My response on that was to what YOU said, not what the article said. Maybe you are the one that needs to stay on topic.

BTW, I don't think that vet abuse is the point of this article. The point is that vets are not being sued enough! The article promotes law suit abuse.

An Independent, why don't you find another story to post on. It is sickening that there are people like you that want to attack animal lovers. Do you have any humanity in you? I doubt it. Just because people care deeply for animals does not mean they dislike humans. I feel sorry for you.

The quality of being humane; the kind feelings, dispositions, and sympathies of man; especially, a disposition to relieve persons or animals in distress, and to treat all creatures with kindness and tenderness.

Sandra, I think that you need to re-read. I did not attack any animal lovers. I was attacked for saying only that pets are not the equivalant of humans (a position that I thought was common sense and common consensus). I have only defended my position. I am an animal lover, myself. I care extremely deeply for animals, but I don't equivacate them with humans.

An Independent, I stand by what I said. You appear to be very snide and arrogant in all your posts. This article is about mistakes Doctor's made on pets. It is not a debate on Humans being the end all to everything. Human beings are not the end-all of life on this earth. In my opinion, we share this planet and should respect all beings. I would hate to be your pet!

An Independent, I believe you were attacked for having common sense - a very rare attribute these days.

Thank you, very much, WIT!

Any living thing that can experience pain and suffering deserves just as much attention as humans.

I would hate to be your pet!

Sandra, I would hate to be your human!

Listen I have two pets; a dog and a cat that I do love, but that love has a price. It's about $500.00, if one requires surgury or treatment that goes beyond 500 the pet will be Euphenized. There are many more pets that need homes. I think the Vet business preys on the the love that pet owners have for their pets, especialy elderly people on fixed incomes. If you don't agree to there surguries they try to make you feel guilty.

Unfortunately, one week ago yesterday, I had to put my beloved cat down due to a sudden onset of the equivalent of human Congestive Heart Failure. The vet I took him to made him comfortable overnight and did all (I hope) he could've done for him. He was only 11 years old and I loved him very, very much. I have no children and he was like a child to me. I am still grieving for him and think I will for some time! The point is no matter what the cost, I was willing to pay what it took to keep him alive but to no avail. If you take on the responsibility of being a pet owner, you should count on unexpected costs for health care for your pet. I would give almost anything to have him still with me today. RIP......

Well devils's son: I spent $16,000 on my bad vet experience and I am still spending money. why don't you think so? do you know what a 24/7 critical care hospital bills costs??? You are very naive.

I think he is saying it is ridiculous to spend that much money on a cat who is 16 years old. Time to put the critter down. No way would I spend that much money on my dog or any animal. Love my dog but when it is time to go its time to go.

I have no problem spending money on my animals but I do have a set limit as to how much I will spend on them. It all depends on the quality of life after the treatment/surgery. I would not want my animal suffer for a long period of time. That is not fair to them. Just as I would not want to be on life support myself. I would never have a quality of life. We have a choice in either treatment or putting the animal to sleep. And by the way my animals are part of the family and they go everywhere I go.

Exactly kellidon. $16,000 for a animal that can be replaced for less than $30. Many shelters give cats away for free! IS it about taking care of the animal or just to please yourself. Stop tourturing the poor creature and allow it to die with SOME measure of dignity. Would you want to be hooked up to machines that just prolong your suffering just so someone else can feel better about themselves? No you would not!!! Your cat does not either

Pets cannot be replaced! They have spirits and personalities and there is a relationship. This thinking is very sad.

Yes your "thinking" is very sad. "Spirits" are make believe. Even your clegry man would say animals have no soul. Animals do not have personalities. Just different abilities and preferences. You are projecting human traits on a animal. I just bought my fifth Dobe. He can never replace the first one I had or any of the others for that matter, true. But he is just a dog. I will not torture him when his time comes but help him die using the human trait called compassion. You are one uncaring person do prolong your cat's pain and suffering just to please yourself. Everyone of my Dobes has been a rescue dog. They eat IAMS, get plenty of treats, exercise, toys and are played with all the time. They get to live longer and well because of me. BUT I DID NOT AND WILL NOT TOURTURE ONE JUST TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER.

Not sad just realistic!. I personally do not want to be hooked up to a machine prolonging my life so that my wife and kids can spend endless days caring for me or being in a hospital sitting around. My wife is of the same thought process. It would kill me to know that some one had to change mydiaper or spoon feed me etc. So with pets there has to be some dignity with quality of life. Not trying to be cold. When we had to put our family dog down due to a heart issue it was tough. She was suffering, not eating, very sad. But it had to be done. We were there when they put her down and i still think of her as does my wife. We have another dog now,not the same but we love her too. I know one day she will have to go as well but for the time being we enjoy her love and attention. Who knows, the dog may have to have me put down at some time.

I have a lovely little mixed breed dog. He was a Katrina rescue. I saw his face on the adoption web site and fell in love. We had him for about a month when the seizures started. They were horrible, violent affairs and every one broke our heart.

We took him to the vet we used for regular care of our other pets and we were satisfied with the treatment at first, the clinic was even kind enough to delay our billing on occasion as we are on a fixed income and sometimes find ourselves short of money. Then one weekend our dog had the worst episode ever and we again were short of money but the usual vet and office staff were not at the clinic and denied us treatment, even though our records were available and we always settled our debt within a few days.

We were blessed enough to find another vet in the area who did not know us, or care that we were unable to pay him that day. He was concerned for our dog. He has been treating him ever since. We spend around $60 a month for Dog's medications and another $200 - $300 a year for regualr visits and lab work. That's around a thousand a year just for the treatment of his seizure disorder. And you know what, we don't begrudge one single penny of it. We make our financial sacrifice willingly because we love our little dog and he brings incredible joy to our home.

It pains me for the human race that there are those who would say it is crazy to spend so much to care for one of the Creator's children but would probably be perfectly happy to spend $50,000 for a shiney new vehicle and its useless bells and whistles.

This is why I really do like the four-leggeds better than most with only two.

Okay, Devil's Son, I've got to respond to your vitriolic attack against extraordinary veterinary procedures. Obviously, you haven't availed your pets of any or you would know that it's only offered or considered when a good quality of life can be maintained. Furthermore, I don't know of any vet---and I am well acquainted with at least 10 in my area---who would allow any pet owner to continue with any extraordinary measures when it will prolong suffering. I've taken care of animals with impending renal failure who needed IV fluids on a regular basis---that I've administered; animals that required thyroid surgeries and life-long medication; animals that were diagnosed with cancers and received surgeries or chemotherapy, currently very much alive and a great number of years past the time they'd have had without the interventions; cats that had Feline Immunodeficiency Syndrome (Feline AIDS), who stayed healthy because of my vigilance and lived to be close to 20 years of age--and in every single case, any discomfort they may have experienced in all these life-savings efforts was easily controlled by mild medication for very short periods of time. And I defy anyone to look at my pets and tell me that they even appear sickly. They eat like horses, they play, their coats are healthy looking--and when the time comes that I see any degradation of those factors, that will be the time I give them to God. But to not afford sentient beings, for whom you are responsible, all that you can provide to enhance the quality and duration of life---simply because of some antiquated notions about animal care and ignorance of veterinary medicine---is simply unconscionable and absolutely nothing to brag about.

Kathy, I am very glad you found that vet. The same thing is happening to me right now. I have a 12 year old Boston Terrier that is full of life. Boston's easily live to 15+. Six weeks ago, she started having intestinal problems. I took her to the vet after a couple of days, noticing it was not getting better on its own. The vet did numerous tests and several medications,( I got them cheaper at the Pharmacy). It was $300 for that visit, no prognosis, more tests $350, no prognosis, another test $400, no prognosis. I am now faced with a $750 procedure and asked if I could pay half for the surgery, and then pay the remainder in the next two weeks. They said NO. Nikki is slightly better, so I may not need that procedure, but if I do, I better have the full $750!

$1000 for the care of a pet over a years time sounds ok to me but $16,000 is just plain nuts. Some Vets, just like some morticians play on peoples feelings and emotions during their time of worry and doubt. I had one that did. He missed diagnosed my Dobes muzzle cancer. He misread the biopsy. After an additional $1200 worth of worthless tests I went to my old Vet and he said the dog had ZERO chance of living 14 more days. The poor girl almost starved to death before I got my head out of my @ss and took HUMANE action. Was that Vet trying to save my dog or pay for his second Mercedes. A good Vet will tell you when your animals time is up. If the life your are prolonging has no quality or joy what is the point. If you love animals just think how many cats and dogs $16,000 could have helped. The root of the word Humane is human. As a human you have a duty to act humanely towards all creatures. I don't have a $50,000 car because that would be almost as stupid as a $16,000 cat.

Devils son, thanks for mentioning a good vet will tell you when your animals time is up. A bad vet may try to guilt you into a $16,000 cat. My girlfriends sister had a cat that was on its way out. She was paying all kinds of money for a cat with no time left. She finally called (I'm not making this up) a pet psychic, who told her it was time to let go of the cat.

The 16K belonged to the author of the post and you really don't have any business criticizing how anyone uses their money.

$16,000 for the cat is after tax money. She probably had to earn $24,000 pre tax dollars to come away with the $16,000. If she earns $72,000 a year she spent 1/3 of her years income on a cat. She brought it up in a public forum. That IS what gives me the business to comment on it. People on Newsvine have no sympathy for people who lost their jobs, are harrassed by credit card companies, and are being forclosed on. But $24,000 had to be earned to pay the VET BILL FOR A CAT. THAT'S OK! Really?

BTW she admits in a post later on that she feels one Vet ripped her off for $4000. But she is still spending.

Devils Son:You sound very unhappy. Animals do have personalities and souls. If you don't think so then I guess I am very glad not to be your pet. I did not torture my cat! My cat is right here with me sitting on my lap and is living a good life. If you cann't pay your bills that is not MY problem. I make good money and can spend MY money on whatever I chose! Yes the first vet committed fraud and ripped me off for $4k. I then found a good and reputaable vet who got paid to bring my cat back to health. Money WELL spent!

I am quite happy thank you. I work for a major University, earn a good living, great benefits. I have been married to my high school sweet heart for 35+ years. I have a lovely daughter. Also a secure retirement. My dog has a 75 foot by 100 ft fenced backyard to play in. He was very under weight when we rescued him. Now he is at his proper weight and taking to his training quite well. You on the other hand sound like a sad lonely spinster. Who thinks her cat is her "baby". It is not! My dog goes to the Vet and the bill is paid before I leave every time. I asked twenty people in my office would they spend $16,000 on a cat's health NOT ONE said they would. If your cat makes you happy good for you. Just don't die alone in the house you live in your baby will eat your face before they find you.

Mr. Devil's son, if I had the money I would use it to save my baby, (Boston Terrier - Nikki). She loves life and gives and gives to me - PRICELESS.

I never want children, therefore my pets are more important to me than they are to some. It's just the way it is. Who is anyone to tell me what I should value more - that is none of your concern. Also, just because something can be replaced for "less than $30"...Hell, humans are born every second of every day; seems like they can be replaced for FREE.

Well devils's son: I spent $16,000 on my bad vet experience and I am still spending money. why don't you think so? do you know what a 24/7 critical care hospital bills costs??? You are very naive

Cat Guardian, the problem is, that $16,000 WASN'T spent on the initial vet experience - it was spent on keeping a cat alive for TWO YEARS that was brain damaged, blind, and having seizures. How can you see that as anything but selfishness on the owner's part?

Okay, Devil's Son, I've got to respond to your vitriolic attack against extraordinary veterinary procedures. Obviously, you haven't availed your pets of any or you would know that it's only offered or considered when a good quality of life can be maintained.

Pat G, that may have been your experience - but if you read the article, the cat that the owner spent $16,000 on did NOT have anything resembling good quality of life. I recently spent a considerable amount of money to have a cat in intensive care overnight - but when the vet told me the next morning that his kidneys had completely shut down, and that because of a severe drop in his body temperature, he probably had brain damage, I knew that it would be kinder to him to have him put to sleep. Had there been a chance of bringing him back to a normal state of health, I would have gladly spent the money - but you have to know when to quit.

Let's keep this in perspective. I am a nurse practitioner, my husband is a veterinarian. We spend a lot of money on our animals..five dogs, 13 sheep, 30 cattle, 15 horses and 1 lonely cat. He treats primarily large animals, ie livestock but has previously treated companion animals. We have gone to heroic measures both for clients animals and our own in order to save their lives. They are "like" family but....they are not...they are animals. We have also been unfortunate enough to have had one child die at the hands of a cardiac specialist during a "routine procedure". While I cried the day we buried my husband's constant companion, Duke, at the foot of my daughter's grave...his death pales in comparison and in relation to the loss of her life. I work 9-5 and moonlight in the ER, have 6 years of education in a Masters Degree and my husband has 8 with his veterinary degree. I earn more than him by quite a bit...he does not complain....he loves what he does...and is not in it for the money. Like human medicine...veterinary medicine may have bad apples and uncaring providers. As consumers, it is our responsibility to seek those that provide the best care. As pet/animal owners WE are responsible for preventative care for our animals, just as we are for our children. While I love my animals dearly, the life of a pet/animal is miniscule compared to the life of my children and loved ones. For those of you who are complaining about high bills for animal care...up to date technology is not cheap and if you want the best for your beloved animal then be prepared to pay for it and stop complaining...you asked for it. And like human medicine, veterinarians are human...they can make judgment errors, misread lab/test result, miss something...many are willing to admit they made a mistake. They are not omnipotent just like I am not with my patients and if you treat them as humans...you as pet owners may understand a little better where we are coming from when we just do not know the answers and have to keep running tests to determine a correct diagnosis.

Then I guess we should stop seeking new knowledge, procedures and drugs that can improve their quality of life...since that all costs money. Unfortunately, veterinary care is not free. The vet is the LAST person that makes any money in a practice...first the bills have to be paid, the employees have to be paid, etc...then the vet gets paid...which they've earned by the way. None of us expected to be rich when we decided to take on over $100K in student loans and go through 8+ years of schooling so that we could make 1/3 of what a physician with an equivalent education makes. Vet school is harder to get into, and harder to get through...vet school dropouts go to med school. Our patients can't tell us what's wrong...oh, and we have to learn all the species not just one (humans). I wanted to be a vet because I wanted to help animals, but I did not take a vow of poverty either. I expect to be reasonably paid for my services...you don't get to go to the grocery store and walk out with food without paying, do you?

That is just utterly ridiculous...do you dictate how much you pay to your doctor? NO...so how can you try to justify dictating how much you pay the veterinarian that YOU took your animal to in the first place? I am astonished at the absolute stupidity of some people! And Armyvetgirl, my hat is off to you...I am former Marine Corps and my husband is a retired Army veterinarian...you keep up the good work and thank you for your dedication to both animals and our country.

farmer, thank you for your and your husband's service. Hooah/Ooorah!

I already am being charged accordingly. I was charged by a vet who falsely advertised his credentials and charged me over $4k for it. That equals FRAUD!

If a vet is falsely claiming credentials that he does not possess, state veterinary boards take that very seriously. To claim otherwise is idiocy. We police our profession because we DO NOT WANT the bad apples representing us! With that said, other vets are the ones most qualified to judge whether a colleague was truly negligent or not. If you are not directly involved in the profession, then you are inadequately educated to make that determination. You are driven by emotion rather than rationality.

Vet schools are public institutions at state run/supported colleges. They are not in business to make money off students.

There are (+/-) 29 vet schools in the country. Each admits approximately 80 students a year. Each class has over 450 applicants (granted, many apply to more than one school). If Vet schools were in it for the money, I would think class sizes would be significantly increased to accommodate that. Instead, to focus on a quality educational experience, the admission process is more rigorous than medical school.

couldn't have said it better myself...

By far the best post here.

Joseph, one issue I see with the human/animal comparison is a person can always go into the emergency room even if they have no funds but it's really up to the vet to see what they'll do for you if you can't afford a needed procedure for the pet.

Most vets are great, very happy with the one I have. I even checked them out on Yelp and other patients seem to feel the same. research a vet before you need to visit one.

Agreed....many pet owners are negligent and if veterinarians were mandated reporters like human health care professionals, there would be many more lawsuits and pets removed from their owner's care. That is not to say that many owners are not very good caregivers and responsible. And as far going to the ER and being treated regardless of the ability to pay...do not ever think that you will not get a bill after the fact for that several thousand dollar ER experience. I work in an ER and see it on a regular basis. Then MY tax money goes to pay for that ER visit...so yes you can be seen in the ER regardless of ability to pay....but someone WILL and DOES pay for it....those of us out there busting our humps!!

They should lose their licenses for fraud and gross error....maybe not mistakes. They aren't losing their licenses for either!

I knew there were a lot of crazies in this country and this thread proves it. I have had pets all my life, but the people posting here are beyond all hope and reason. Owning 9 cats IS animal abuse. Your house must stink to high heaven. The spending thousands a year by low income people on a dog is misguided. Do you people have children? Are my tax dollars paying for this? Sick! Here's a thought for you demented people. Put your pets down and send the money to Haiti where it can do some real good. If you can't see it yourselves, let me be the first to inform you ... you're sick in the head!

YOu are so out of line sdhagerman.......rude and arrogant. maybe you need some anger management classes because your post is full of anger. AND no, your tax dollars are not paying for my animal's care. No way, Jose...

Owning 9 cats is not animal abuse. Where did you get the info that all nine are in her house? If they are in her house, it is NONE of your business. Get YOUR head out of your ass.

sdhagerman, you are the one who is sick in the head and rude on top of that. What difference does it make if your tax dollars pay for it? My tax dollars go to pay for your kids education, child care centers and other @!$%# folks without kids should not have to pay.

Hey sdhageman, I DO NOT have kids, never intend to, and you can bet your ass that my 3 cats are more pleasant to be around than ANY child. And none of your tax dollars pay for any part of my life, so re-direct your drivel.

Ming,

I COMPLETELY AGREE with you!!!

Appreciated, kelldon!

hmm sounds like the surgery and chemo prolonged her survival...so why are you refusing to pay?

I can prove all of mine and have an excellent case.

susan Lee, what is that website on caring for special needs cats?

Susan-- I'm sure you are a very intelligent individual but I am also quite sure that you do not know more than your veterinarian who has a far more extensive education and daily experiences to draw from than you do.

Your attitude is rude, arrogant and uncalled for. I guess you are trolling through comment threads upsetting people and being an ass. Good luck with your outlook on life. It sucks.

Your attitude is rude, arrogant and uncalled for. I guess you are trolling through comment threads upsetting people and being an ass. Good luck with your outlook on life. It sucks.

Thank you for your assessment. I might say much the same about your comment. As for it being "uncalled for", I would suggest you go back and read the comments to which I was replying.

Wow - I thought I was a little bit of a "crazy cat lady" (not really, I never own more than two at a time) but judging by the attacks on An Independent, there are some REAL CCLs out there. Stick to your guns, AI.

I get the feeling you are not a pet owner, oh oh oh, pets are a part of the family, some people love their dogs and cats, more than they do their human family members.

oh oh oh, i guess the same reason folks take newborns to the doc. You can make another one.

Are you kidding? Perhaps you should look into the cost of a veterinary education vs. the average salary. Veterinary medicine, like human medicine, is a business. Every business wants to make a profit. That doesn't mean veterinarians don't care about the illness/injury with which your dog is afflicted.

Your vet was recommending to have small masses removed so that in the event that they are cancerous, your pet has a much better chance of survival. But no, you would rather wait until it's a 5 lb tumor hanging off of him and now it's a MUCH more difficult and risky surgery, even if the mass is benign. It is his responsibility to advise you of what he feels is best for your pet...it is YOUR choice whether or not to have the procedure done.

armyvetgirl, while I applaud most of thie points you have made on this thread, you should rethink that last comment... When you get out of school and to the vet thing 'for real' (not implying you don't already have a ton of experience already, but you ARE still in school, I believe) you will learn the art of determining the fine line between "doing it all because the book says so" and "doing what is best for my patient", and "doing what is best for my client." Lumps on an old dog are serious -- you are right. Is anesthetizing the dog and doing excisional biopsies (with associated histopathology fees) the only way we can get the answer? Besides, I'm sure you know that surgery to remove a mass like a mast cell tumor (wide Wide WIDE margins) is much different than removing something like a lipoma (why remove it at all, in most cases...).

It is our duty as medical professionals to recommend the best -- but every pet is attached to a person, and that person is attached to a pocketbook. I would not be in business very long if I forgot that.

Wise old vet told me when I was in school: "People don't care what you know, they want to know that you care.."

Justavet, I understand where you are coming from. I was just pointing out that his vet was probably just informing his client of his exam finding and possible courses of action. The only reason I commented was because my impression was that Atlantaguy seemed to think that his vet was only relaying this information to make money. Maybe he was, I don't know his vet, but I have faith that most of our profession is not just trying to generate funds and would weigh all of the variables when discussing and recommending a course of action for each patient. I can recommend recommend recommend until I'm blue in the face, but the ultimate decision does lie with the owner. I've removed some pretty large lipomas (and some with mast cell tumors imbedded in them that the FNA missed) that I wish they would have let me remove before it was a 5lb monstrosity and subsequent surgical difficulties. I've also had to steer owners away from removing every little wart on their old dog just because they think it looks "ugly". If Atlantaguy's vet didn't care, he probably would just poke him in the butt and send him on his way.

some of you are trying and some of you are sick, mentally ill, sociopaths that need to have your licenses yanked. That said, it is true of any profession. Difference is plumbers, teachers and enginneers are not a position to mutilate and take lives! BIG difference!

Vet POV thank you for posting. I have a question I'd like to pose to you, which I've also asked a friend that's currently in her last year of veterinary school.

I know that doctors are required to take a number of ethics courses that deal with end of life care, delivering bad news to families, when it's advisable to just go with pain management measures and stop treatment, etc.

I'm just asking as a matter of curiosity if vets are required to take any courses in the ethics area and if so if you know if that's changed in recent years at all. I've seen widely varying attitudes in vets over the years from "If you give me money we'll help you keep your pet as long as possible, regardless of whether the animal is miserable or not" to "It's really in the animal's best interest to put them down because there's no way this will have a positive outcome."

I know these could certainly be because of personal interests/beliefs/etc. but I'm just curious if there's anything pedagogical that could be influencing these behaviors...?

I'm a Master Auto Tech, Master Scuba diver & former instructor, and have a Architectural Design degree, and 6 other years of college. If I make a MISTAKE, I'm held ACCOUNTABLE. And yes my MISTAKES could have resulted in people dying and being injured, just like YOU..... FYI - Those people that I taught SCUBA diving, 30+years ago, can still take me to court, if they become injured during a dive......

Plus, I worked on aircraft for 20+years. Even common MISTAKES are not a acceptable EXCUSE when peoples lives are at stake..... And military SUICIDE rates are a lot higher.....

SORRY - TRYING does not mean anything to the families of the dead or injured.............. Teachers, plumpers, mechanics, and Engineers are held - ACOUNTABLE for their MISTAKES...... Especially when their MISTAKES result in injuries or death.......

This is exactly the point I was going to make. Vets are supposed to be professionals with years of schooling to ensure they know what they are doing. That knowledge is why people trust the care of their animals to them. It doesn't matter if you personally believe it's "worth" it to pay for extended care for an animal, the fact is that many people do believe it to be a worthwhile expense. As such, they pay for a professional service. If that service isn't provided or if the vet in question makes an error that is preventable they should be held accountable just like any other professional.

I'm new to this so my "reply" to AC and vicious is on a separate post - page 3 (I think) if you care. :)

To Chibidraco: As with all things Vet education related, each school is different. Speaking to my own experience, we did get ethics and client communication training, but probably not enough. (Having said that, while training IS important, a lot of it inevitably comes down to the individual doctor's personalty, philosophy, and communication style.) One thing I really benefitted from was the fact that we had a WONDERFUL veterinary social work program at the college I attended. I learned a TON from them!

My advice is that if you don't feel comfortable with your vet (for whatever reason), keep looking - it's just like any professinal relationship you'll have, some people are good "fits" and others aren't!

VET Pov, I on the other hand have had excellent Vets. I am a dog lover and throughout the years have moved around a bit. Luckily two of my Vets in two separate towns were my personal friends. No I never asked or received special pricing etc., but all of my Vets were the most caring and knowledgeable Vets.