At my high school dances we all grinded, and you know what, nobody got pregnant from that! They aren't going to screw on the dance floor, but if they find the dance itself to be boring or overbearing, they will leave to go someplace unsupervised where they are more likely to screw. The only way to protect them is to educate them on situations and the consequences, not by trying to over-shelter them. And as soon as they get out from underneath that shelter, they are left to make all the mistakes without the aid of a safety net.

I remember being a kid. Being a quite child. I still tried to test the limits sometimes. We allowed lower morals in our schools. Lowered dress codes. Now we have more teen age pregnancy and births. None of my classmates died from coat hangers.

Wow, the more things change the more they stay the same. Parents were having the exact same worries 60-80 years ago (maybe forever) with those new fangled dances like the jitter bug and the lindy hop, not to mention that outrageous new rock music which was songs of the devil. Did you see Elvis gyrating his hips all over the place?? That's obscene!!!

Maybe the solution is to do like the Baptists and ban all dancing entirely. That'll show those uppity, out of control kids.

Good for the parents letting the kids go! Each generation has to do its own thing and so many old farts end up whining each time these silly kids DO whatever stupidity they dream up. Let them do it and get it out of their system and have something to fondly look back on when they become the next old farts whining about their kids or being cool letting their kids LIVE a little. This disgusting dance thing sounds way better than if they really screwed or doing drugs which could get them pregnant or kill them.

What exactly is the purpose of grinding? Is it just for dancing? If that's the case, then I would think these kids would be doing all types of dance moves just for dancing and not just grinding. Let's just call it what it is, purposefully dancing in an inappropriate way to get a rise out of the adults. That is why kids grind. They do it to bug the people who don't like it, period. Its not for dancing or for fun, it is expressly for the purpose of pushing the envelope.

The problem is there are kids who don't like grinding, but like so many things, they feel pressured to do it even if they don't necessarily want to. And then there are kids who do grind dance, but it goes in a direction and takes on a dynamic they didn't want or didn't expect. If grinding is going on, its likely that groping is also going on.

While I understand that provocative dancing has always been an issue, we need to remember there is a big distinction between teenagers grind dancing and Elvis' shimmying pelvis, or Adam Lamberts simulated oral sex: Elvis and Adam are (were) both adults. They may have an influence on youth, but kids are still kids.

It's a Catholic school. They found a condom on the floor? Oh no, a responsible teen, can't have.

What they can't do at the dance, they can do elsewhere. Teens will be teens, raging hormones, building sense of self, etc. No amount of religious dogma will stop that.

Teach the kids to be responsible adults and to deal with the world in which we live.

Being a parent chaperon at a middle school dance back East was a shocker for me. All I could say was "I'm glad my husband isn't here to see this, he'd never let our daughter go to another dance". At that age, it wasn't all the kids - a big group of the boys in the gym just hung out playing basketball, or in the "games room" parents had set up. Most of us newbie parents of teens looked on in dismay, but the teachers knew what was up and kept the "dancing" kids from "inappropriate contact". Now in SoCal, the high school will turn up the lights and cut the music if it is out of hand, and this has improved due to the school taking a stand.

What self-respecting human doesn't grind in public while at a middle school or high school dance?

I mean, c'mon, dignity is sooo overrated.

Did our ancestors really lose their lives in WWI, WWII, etc. so that their progeny could "grind" without blushing?

I mean, I am a Libertarian's Libertarian, but, seriously, people....

Before students at Aliso Niguel High School in Aliso Viejo, Calif., can attend the Feb. 20 winter formal they'll also have to sign a dance contract that specifically forbids grinding, garters or other exposed lingerie, excessively short skirts and the removal of shirts.

I can get on-board with the regulations about keeping your shirt on and your underwear under...

But getting upset over grinding?? Some of the best times of my high-school times were when I had a pretty girl pressed up against me so tight not even the holy spirit could get in there...GOOD TIMES GOOD TIMES

So as long as the clothes stay on and everyone is comfortable, grind on kiddies grind on!

This is news? Didn't anybody see the movie 'Dirty Dancing'. And what year was that in?

Geez, all those examples and yet not one reference to Michael Jackson's um, body motions during his dancing.

Guess he's going to be forgotten far sooner than I thought.

This is news? Didn't anybody see the movie 'Dirty Dancing'. And what year was that in?

Geez, all those examples and yet not one reference to Michael Jackson's um, body motions during his dancing.

They weren't very classy and I really didn't think that their moves were that spectacular.

But getting upset over grinding?? Some of the best times of my high-school times were when I had a pretty girl pressed up against me so tight not even the holy spirit could get in there...GOOD TIMES GOOD TIMES

So you would be allright if the chaperones got on the dance floor and showed the kidies what grinding really is or one of the male chaperones grinding with your 14-18 year old daughter?

I got an idea. If kids start grinding start playing some bluegrass music. That will surely get them to stop.

So you would be allright if the chaperones got on the dance floor and showed the kidies what grinding really is or one of the male chaperones grinding with your 14-18 year old daughter?

Right, because that's totally the same thing. Hey, let's apply that logic to everything else! You think it's ok that your 14 year old son is kissing his girlfriend? WELL, WOULD YOU BE OK WITH HIM KISSING HIS 40 YEAR OLD TEACHER? BOOM!!!

Your analogy is ridiculous.

So your compareing kissing to dancing? If this is "dancing" shouldn't it be O.K. for adults and kids to dance together? I wouldn't think it funny if a father and daughter waltzed or hip hoped together. They are supposedly dancing if its not dancing what is it? If it is simulated sex it should not be on the dance floor.

I think parents need to know there is a difference between what people do on the dance floor and what they do elsewhere.

I used to "freak dance" all the time at dances from the time I was about 12 or 13 and I didnt loose my virginity till I was in my 20's.

It was the ones who acted sweet and innocent in public (or around their parents)that you had to watch out for. All teens want to rebel and if parents make sex the ultimate taboo... well lets just say there is a reason that the preacher's daughters have a reputation.

My parents made me carry a condom with me from the time I was 16, and partly because of the rebellion was no longer there, I was the last of any of my friends to become sexually active.... and I had some religious friends (gotta watch them, they think oral doesnt count, lol)

And as for the condoms on the floor, think about it... if they were going to use them, they would not be on the floor. They probably stole a couple from their parent's drawer and put them on the floor to freak out the adults there. Apparently it worked. Freaking out only encourages them, I am sure they are pleased.

I like snake09's idea... Make it a give and take instead of showing repulsion. They want you to be shocked, or it would not be as good. So when they start grinding go with a half an hour bluegrass medley. Then square dancing lessons. You don't have to tell them your going to... just do it every time they start.

I'm a senior in high school. Everyone grinds. It's just what's in. While I personally don't like it when the friction between my pelvis and another could start a small fire, I say to each his own. It's better than going into an empty class room and screwing.

Stop acting like old people and get with the times. :P

Let's put this in perspective of current laws:

One can very well be arrested, fined, jailed, and labeled as a sex offender if a person touches another person in an inappropriate way, even if that touching is done through clothing. (You don't believe me? Check your local ordinances.)

I'm no prude, that's for sure. However, we are talking about dancing which, in some places, would be considered not only lewd and immoral, but illegal as well.

Yea, go ahead, call me old-fashioned. But, when some 18 year-old winds up in jail and is labeled a sex offender for the rest of their life for grinding with a minor, then we will see grinding stop.

"Grinding" or Freak dancing is not like Dirty Dancing. It's pretty gross. There is no dancing about it. It's the girl rubbing her butt on the guy's crotch. and vice versa. It's very awkward looking, and gross. If they're going to dance nasty, at least make it look nice. Dancing should be artistic.

Greg, do you realize that most commentators are not in the Middle East? In "some places" everything is illegal, lewd and immoral. Have you been hearing about the morality police raiding the high school dance and dragging the kids away? The local school dance is hardly the sex offender generator you make it out to be.

explorerdog, like I said, I'm no prude, and no, I don't know anything about moraility police raiding any high school dances.

But, I've been around long enough to know that somewhere, some 18-year-old kid is going to be "dancing/grinding" with a 14-year-old, and someone is going to wind up being labeled as a sexual offender, as silly as that might sound to some.

I know that in my city, it is illegal (I am not making this up) for anyone to touch the clothed genital area of another person in public. It's a city ordinance primarily put in place to protect lap dancers, but it is an ordinance, and one can be arrested and jailed. Believe me, I know, as I am in law enforcement.

I know all about how kids want to be themselves, and I know all about rebellion (dirty faded jeans, anyone?), and I've seen Footloose and loved it, but I also understand the law.

This again? *sigh*

I graduated 12 years ago. It's no different now than it was back in 1994 when I was a freshman in high school and doing the same thing. This is overbearing, overreaching policy from educators and parents who have clearly forgotten what it means to be a teenager. This isn't new, and it isn't dangerous.

Every generation, adults tighten the rules and teenagers push back harder. The more repressed you are, the more it drives you to revolt. I know, I never outgrew it because I was under the thumb of an extremely overprotective family. Drop the rules, drop the drama, and let teenagers be teenagers. Stop pushing them to rebel and make things worse for you.

Also, NOBODY EFFING CALLS IT FREAK DANCING. NOBODY.

On the other hand, if you're a parent and you WANT your kid to grow up and be a lap dancer/exotic dancer/whatever, then maybe you should go to your school board and recommemend classes for your child.

JK-415873

So you would be alright if the chaperones got on the dance floor and showed the kiddies what grinding really is or one of the male chaperones grinding with your 14-18 year old daughter?

Wow, were you and I reading the same article?? I didn't see anywhere where chaperons were getting involved with kids at all...

Classes such as ballet and gymnastics? Or a class where they teach them the number one rule of exotic dance: Dancing is a visual art - DON'T TOUCH! From what I am reading here, these dancers might benefit from that type of instruction.

Just asking, but what the hell does Burt Bacharach have to do with this?

What does the subject in this article expect?

It's what the TV shows all of the time while she either sits idly by or doesn't care in the first place.

I am a mother of two high school students and understand that they are at a rebellious stage. The only humor of it is that there is nothing new about their dancing. While personally I do not like it, I cannot say that I did not do dances that were considered derogatory while I was younger. I remember just moving my hips around the wrong way and my mother yelling at me. This dance is only a fad. There will be better and worst dances out there in the future, just calm down. Also, I have actually never heard my kids call it freak dancing...only grinding lol. And I must point out that just because condoms were found on the floor does not mean anything. Teenagers act stupid and play with condoms, it does not mean that they used them. I remember when Dirty Dancing came out, it was considered horrific, but now, its just "ok....whats so bad?" People need to understand that times change, and this is not the only generation, has ever been, or will ever be, a sexual generation. Every teenage generation is, it is life and biological as well.

People are supposed to be inherently courious. Saying no and closing all the doors, will just make things worse; they'll just go do their inappropriate behavior elsewhere. Has anybody ever considered making dance classes more available, advertising their exsistence to promote interest? If the beaurocrats weren't sucking so much out of the system, the schools might even be able to include various classes as required curriculum. For now, going outside of the school environment is necessary: parents are just going to have to take things into their own hands, and open their children's eyes.

So what's next after grinding?

Stop acting like old people and get with the times.

Acoe, it would be just as easy for me to say "stop being so naive and grow up".

So, you'd be ok with your 13 year old younger brother or sister dancing like that?

Whether you think this dancing is okay or not is sort of beside the point.

There are city/state/local ordinances which do specifically ban the touching of certain body parts in public, regardless of whether those body parts are clothed or unclothed.

True, these laws may be very silly to some people. (Many of us like to drive faster than the posted speed limit, for example.) But, just because you think a law is silly, or just because you might not know the law, doesn't mean you can't get arrested and/or prosecuted.

Beware.

Acoe, it would be just as easy for me to say "stop being so naive and grow up".

So, you'd be ok with your 13 year old younger brother or sister dancing like that?

By growing up, I'm going to stop dancing like adults do? It's not kids thinking up these moves, it's older people. If you don't want kids to dance like this, stop the adults they're emulating. Either that, or stop acting like such an old fart. :D

And yes. Because he does.

There are city/state/local ordinances which do specifically ban the touching of certain body parts in public, regardless of whether those body parts are clothed or unclothed.

This reminds me of the plot to Footloose. However, back in reality, I've never heard of a single modern instance of a person being arrested for dancing. I'm sure we've all heard of silly laws in our counties or states, and I'm sure we're all equally aware that they are never enforced.

Acoe, children are a little like monkeys. They copy what they see others doing. Just because adults are participating in this behavior doesn't mean its appropriate for children to behave that way. (The old "if your friends jumped of a cliff, would you do it too?" argument.) That's why we have laws regarding drinking ages and ages of consent, because young people are lacking in the areas of understanding the consequences of their actions and the lasting effects they can have on their lives. You say stop the adults from acting this way, but we can't always do that. Instead, as parents, we are supposed to help our children see what the benefits and drawbacks that can occur from some kinds of behaviors.

So you see nothing wrong with a 13 year old grinding, eh? As the parent of a 13 year old I could tell you all kinds of things wrong with it. You have come to your conclusion as a teenager, making your decision based on your experiences as a teenager, not an adult. Instead I will just say your immaturity is showing.

Wow. Everyone should consider that every part of our society favors sexuality, emphasizes it. It's no wonder that our kids are fully engaged in it. These teens are reflecting what are society wants. Addressing the teens as doing something wrong is alot easier than tackling the fact that our shallow society lacks character and values, our society favors short term gratification over more valuable priorities that will get you further in life.

When we shift our thinking to things of greater societal reward, instead of individualistic "getting mine", maybe our kids will follow that.

America, with all its ability and gifts, is reduced to wasting these wonderful blessings, because we clearly have our priorities mixed up. When learning becomes cool, our school "issues" will go away.

OK coming from today's generation one thing is clear... honestly, these guys are WAY, WAY, WAY overreacting to basically not much. Making a mountain out of a stinking molehill.

I mean what do you want, the whole 6-inches-arms-length rule? That just makes these events terribly boring.

So you're saying that the only way these kids can have fun at a dance is if they grind dance? That's just silly, and its also not true. Kids grind to get a rise out of the adults, and that's pretty much it. There's lots of other dancing that is just as much fun, looks cool and more kids want to participate. There's swing dancing, popping, break dancing, salsa dancing, stepping, then there's always the throwback dancers who just step back and forth.

Actually the 6 inch rule is one of the dance rules at my son's school. (Still in Jr. High)

In my opinion, an adult running around at a high school dance with a ruler making sure minor's body parts are at least 6 inches apart is a pretty sick and twisted person.

I'm a live and let live person. Dance however you want, with whomever you want, where ever you want and whenever, but you gotta obey the laws.

Jane, are you saying that every couple grinding is going to have sex later that night? That's just silly, and its also not true. Kids grind because basically it is fun and feels good, and that's pretty much it. There's lots of other dancing that isn't as fun, doesn't feel as good (is more prudish), and has extremely steep learning curves. Meanwhile there's grinding and slow dancing which is easy to do and doesn't require effort and time to learn about which suits otherwise-busy kids.

Actually most people who grind DON'T end up having sex later, and the ones that do would be having sex anyway, prudish dance rules or no.

Here's what I find telling:

Teenagers have posted here to say "this is innocent, it does not lead to sex, it is an acceptable form of dancing in our generation." They know because.. uh.. they're the ones involved.

Then adults follow and say "no! I know teens better than you know yourselves! Even though you experience this all the time and have first-hand knowledge (and an open mind), I am 100% sure that as soon as these dances are over, all these kids are sneaking behind the school and having sex! If your girlfriend goes to a high school dance without you, she'll probably get an STD!"

Come on, people. As I've stated, this is no different than the dancing we did in high school a decade and a half ago. I have witnessed it. What's happening here is that parents are afraid their kids are going to do the same things they did at 15, which is understandably scary, but also understandably something that they need to allow... because, parents, look how well you turned out. Teenage years are the years of learning, experimenting, and developing into a normal adult... and going through those years thinking you shouldn't dance close to someone (IMO) could really screw up that development.

Jane, are you saying that every couple grinding is going to have sex later that night?

Kevin, I didn't say anything like that. Nothing even close. And grinding isn't the only kind of dancing out there. There are lots of other kinds of dancing that these kids could be doing, they are choosing the one they know will bring them attention and really tick off the people charged with keeping order at the dance. Why do they want to do that? Just to be pains in the butt, that's why.

You think swing dancing is not fun and prudish? It's a great way to look really polished and cool, and its certainly not prudish. (It was considered very risque at one point, remember? Or maybe you don't, because you're a teenager, I don't know.)

However, it doesn't take any talent or even practice to learn how to grind, and it looks ridiculous, especially when its a pair of 13 or 14 or 15 year olds doing it.

And Alan, we were all teenagers at one time. But as adults we have more experience to pile on top of that. Many of us look back at some of the things we did as teens and we think, "Damnit, those stupid grown ups were right!"

Cracks me up how many people think kids do this stuff to "get a rise" out of adults. I was a teen not too long ago, I can tell ya, they really don't give a crap about what you think or how outraged you are. The only thing they care about is the guy/girl they are pressed up against. The only thing banning it at school dances ensures is that no one will show up at them, meaning they will be completely out of adult supervision, and things much worse than grinding will happen.

Wanna bet? They live to bug the crap outta us, especially when they are teenagers. Kids push the buttons for the sole purpose of pushing the buttons. They're putting on a show, and they're challenging the authority and that is the only real purpose behind it.

Sure I'll bet. 5 years ago I WAS a teenager. What you say is true of preteens and children, they love to show off and get attention from adults. Teenagers really don't care, you are not important to them anymore in that way. They don't want or need your attention, they want the approval their friends and especially that of the opposite sex. I don't ever remember myself or any of my friends saying "Hey, lets do this cause it will make so and so's mom freak out!" I really think you are overestimating your importance as a motivating factor to your kids.

Sorry Remydon, but I disagree. Today's teenagers are all too aware that they are being watched. They want to be watched. They put on a show for the express purpose of being watched. Some of them walk around like they have a camera crew following them around. Maybe you, specifically, never thought that way, but I have seen, heard and observed teenagers and adolescents (as a public school employee for 20 years) and I know what I've seen and heard and observed. Most teens think the world revolves around them.

Teens do want the approval of almost everyone around them, peers, teachers, parents, etc. I really think you are underestimating the important motivating factor that adults have on their kids.

Maybe so, just relating my experiences as a recent teen. These dances really aren't that bad, I really don't see why they upset you so much. I met my wife at my highschool homecoming dance 6 years ago. Yes, we danced as the article described, no we didn't sneak off and have sex afterward. And we STILL dance like that when we go out and the venue is appropriate, because it is fun and we enjoy it. We learned swing dancing for our wedding, and we are taking other dancing lessons for fun. I just think this is a case of an older generation flipping out over something that really isn't a big deal, just like your parents did and their parents before them.

And we STILL dance like that when we go out and the venue is appropriate, because it is fun and we enjoy it. We learned swing dancing for our wedding, and we are taking other dancing lessons for fun.

That is your maturity speaking, right there. Other kinds of dancing is fun (more fun than grinding, even). You admit that there is an appropriate venue for this type of activity and that it likely is more appropriate for adults.

So, let's just say its ok for high school seniors or even juniors to dance like that. (I still don't think its appropriate at a high school dance, though.) We're not just talking about 16 and 17 year olds. My son is 13 and still in junior high and his class mates grind dance. It is not appropriate for healthy emotional, physical and psychological development to encourage two hormonally crazy youngsters to rub their crotches together, or crotch to backside, and then say "its just dancing". Because, really, its not just dancing, there's more to it than that.

And its not like it really upsets me that much. I'm not going into meltdown when I see this happening at my son's school dances. In fact, most of the time I don't even have to say anything, I only need to stand next to the "dancers" and they get embarrassed enough that they stop. They fully know that what they're doing is seen as inappropriate. I see it as just one more thing that immature and clueless kids do, inappropriate behavior that needs to be addressed. Not much different from most kinds of etiquette we try to teach our kids.

And I never said kids would go have sex because they're grinding. What I'm more concerned about is an escalation of the behavior, non-consensual grinding, if you will. And other kinds of sexually charged behavior that kids just don't know how to handle.

My junior high didn't really have dances, so can't say I have any experience there. But in general junior high kids are going to do what high school kids do because they see thier older brothers or sisters or neighbors do it and emmulate them. If your goal is to prevent them from dancing like that, then I'm afraid the only real solution is to not have dances.

The reason we learned swing dancing for our wedding was because we didn't want to make our older relatives uncomfortable, not because we thought it was inappropriate; this is probably the reason the kids stopped when you came over and stood next to the dancers. The point I'm trying to make is that to our generation, it really isn't a big deal until the adults make it one. I'm sure there are some kids that really are getting turned on and what not, but to the majority of us it was just dancing until some chaperone or adult started making it out to be something it is not. If anything I think that reflects on how insecure some older folks are when they start interpreting any kind of contact as sexual behavior.

But in general junior high kids are going to do what high school kids do because they see thier older brothers or sisters or neighbors do it and emmulate them. If your goal is to prevent them from dancing like that, then I'm afraid the only real solution is to not have dances.

That is exactly what happens at many schools. It happened at a high school I worked at, but it was because too many kids would go out and get loaded then come to the dance drunk and high. Its too bad because there are lots of kids who do want to go and dance and not participate in the grinding and other behavior that gets kids into trouble. But now they have no choice because of the few who choose to push the boundaries.

The reason we learned swing dancing for our wedding was because we didn't want to make our older relatives uncomfortable, not because we thought it was inappropriate;

Obviously you thought it was inappropriate to make your older relatives uncomfortable and you knew this type of dancing would do just that. No one is saying any kind of contact is sexual behavior, but I'm not sure how you can say that grinding isn't a type of sexual behavior. You yourself said it was fun and feels good. Isn't that why people start having sex?

Have a couple kids. Then get back to me.

That's why we have laws regarding drinking ages and ages of consent, because young people are lacking in the areas of understanding the consequences of their actions and the lasting effects they can have on their lives.

I challenge you to cite any study that links grinding to having underage sex. One. Any one. Can you do that, oh wise Jane? Chance are you can't, and if you can, I'll provide you with several detailing why teenagers are actually having sex. Students who are going to have sex after a school dance are students who would have done it whether the dance happened or not. You're showing an amazing lack of insight by implying that something as simple as a dance is going to convince one to have sex.

Furthermore, I'll inform you that I am 18, have grinded untold times at school dances, parties, and clubs, and have managed to remain chaste. Dancing /=/ sex. However, banning something does make it infinitely more appealing to try.

You have come to your conclusion as a teenager, making your decision based on your experiences as a teenager, not an adult. Instead I will just say your immaturity is showing.

I'll say you're resorting to ad hominem attacks and are therefore not worth debating. Such lack of respect is startling from someone claming to be so mature.

I have not once said that grinding leads to sex. I'm not sure where you got that.

What I have said is that grinding is a form of dancing that kids participate in more to get a rise out of the authority figures than for any purpose of having fun or dancing just for dancing. What I have said is that kids participate in a variety of activities of which they don't really understand the potential consequences of their actions. I'm sure most kids who grind dance at school dances are very surprised when the school simply cancels dances because the students won't follow the rules of conduct, which can and does happen.

And if I'm not worth debating, then why'd you come back? I am simply expressing my opinions, as an adult, as someone who worked with adolescents and teenagers for over 20 years, as a parent of teenagers and as someone who was once a teenager as well (believe it or not, I was a teenager). I have not attacked anyone, I have not disrespected anyone. Disagreement does not equal disrespect. I simply said that you have come to a conclusion based on your own experience, which is limited at best.

I'm not sure you're getting something: you repeatedly say we were doing it just to p/o the authority figures, not for fun or any other reason. But you have two people repeatedly telling you that as teens, we enjoyed dancing this way. I still do as a young adult, that is after college, marriage, a career, and having a daughter a year ago. It really is just a generational disconnect that you and a lot of people are interpreting as something that it is not.

Jane,

Please explain to me how you can sit there as an adult and tell teenagers on this board why they do what they do? THEY are the teenagers. If anyone is qualified to explain why a teenager would grind at a high school dance, it's the person doing it, not the person 20 years removed from it.

You're saying "I know you better than you know you." This is where parents go wrong, and this is the type of parenting that causes rebellion. I know, because I grew up with a father who knew my intentions, even when I didn't. That's nonsense.

I have not once said that grinding leads to sex. I'm not sure where you got that.

I apologize. My orginal comments were to Greg, and when you jumped in I didn't catch the shift in speaker. This was probably aided by you continuing his point about laws.

With that out of the way though, your actual point is even more illogical. Kids are grinding to make adults mad? Please, kids could care less what their parents think. We aren't seeking to make parents mad, we're doing what's fun and what feels good.
Answer me this: if a child grind dances to piss off adults, why do adults do it? Because they get something else from it that teens don't?

I have not disrespected anyone

Now that, hun, is a whole lot of bs. If you discount an opinion because you think yours is more worthy, be it based on age or some twisted idea of "experience", you're not only disrespecting another person, you're attempting to deflect their argument. By claming that I was speaking from immaturity, and that somehow my opinion would be more valid if I was older you committed a fallacy (or more specifically, an appeal to tradition). If not disrespect, then it's ignorance. Disagreeing is very different from disrespect.

THe quickest way to end grinding is to have the parents start doing it and raving about how "cool" it is.

I don't actually do the dance, I just stand next to the ones who are, and that seems to do the trick.

Acoe, I think part of the disagreement is that perhaps you are reading something more into my comments than is actually there. That can happen often in this type of format because we each read each other comments within the context of how we think and interpret them, rather than how the writer thinks and interprets them. You may have taken my disagreement as disrespect, but I do not intend it as such. Maybe the problem is that we just aren't speaking the same language, so to speak.

I am not discounting your opinion at all. In fact I understand your opinion very well. But your opinion is based on a certain experience within a certain period of time. You haven't yet had the opportunity to be able to look back on your experiences with the eyes of an adult. And not having children, its definitely harder for you to form an opinion about the things which effect the development of adolescents. And there is a whole different standard for adults because they are adults. Why do they dance that way? I'm not sure, because it looks stupid and if they're trying to look hot, they're not succeeding.

I don't know about Alan, but I remember being a teenager. Maybe he was born fully grown as an adult with only the experiences of an adult. But I wasn't. I was a teenager and I remember being a teenager and there were times when I engaged in behavior simply because it pissed people off. I'm not the only one who knows this. Even teens admit that they behave this way. Psychologists call it "acting out" and its quite common among young people. I'm not saying I know better, but I do know.

Remydon, when was the last time you went to a school dance as an adult? If you want to go to a club and grind dance, have at! No one is stopping you and it is perfectly legal. But you will probably be doing it at a night club that admits patrons over the age of 18 at least, if not 21, not a high school dance. I can tell you that if you become a chaperone at your child's school dance one day and you do start grind dancing, the principal is likely to have a serious talk with you about it and may not ask you back as a chaperone.

As for kids dancing to tick off the adults, here's the "bottom" line: if a kid is asked repeatedly to stop a certain behavior and he repeatedly does not stop, then he is doing it on purpose in order to elicit a certain response. The problem comes in because the response he might elicit could be that extra school related activities will be canceled altogether because a small number of kids choose not to follow the rules for conduct. This actually happened at a school I worked at, all dances were canceled, for several years (again, not because of grind dancing). Is this the end result that kids want?

Age demographics on this topic is so obvious. What is said on the vine regarding "the grind" is the same they said about Rock-N-Roll, the same they said about Heavy Metal, Punk Music, Hip-Hop...

It is us who are building the box that restrain the imagination of our children. It is clear to me that many of the parents are not able to control their sexual arousal during the dance. However we should be not so quick to apply that to a form of dance is widely accepted by the younger generation. We may not like it, nor understand it. However it does not make it bad.

As a parent, I like to think I have instilled character and decision skills in my children so that they can achieve their goals. I don't believe my interpretation of what is good and bad, and my road map to life is ANY GOOD. My road map is old and decrepid, and only applicable for ME. I hope I can practice more of what I preach.

It is us who are building the box that restrain the imagination of our children.

When I was a teenager we were watching Madonna wearing her underwear on the outside, writhe around the MTV stage and sing Like a Virgin in a wedding dress. Michael Jackson was grabbing his crotch (and continued to do so for the next 27 years, inspiring copycats galore). Go ahead and laugh, but that was seriously pushing boundaries in 1982. It certainly wasn't called restrained and it left nothing to the imagination.

Wonder what it will be in 2025. Remydon's daughter will be about 16 then. Acoe could have an adolescent by then too. Let me know how it turns out guys.

yup, and my parents and the school called it soft porn... They wanted those 2 artists, music and clothing banned. Well, it backed fired. The more our parents wanted, the less they are gonna get!

Jane, you've proven a point that goes against your theory... you say you did things as a teenager that were against the wishes of your parents. You "acted out." You sound successful and well-adjusted as a result of learning from your actions, so why would you wish to coddle the next generation and deny them the same experiences from which they can mature and develop?

I was a horrid teenager. I dabbled in drugs, and I don't mean marijuana. I could've messed myself up. My parents hovered constantly and when they said not to do something, I assumed they were afraid I'd like it. I didn't go do those things to rebel, I did them because the overzealous parents made me exceptionally curious.

At age 18, I realized it was dumb, expensive, unhealthy, and risky legally and career-wise. In other words, based on my experiences, I grew up. The counter to that is "well don't you wish someone had just told you so you wouldn't have had to go through those mistakes?" My answer? Absolutely not, because I wouldn't have believed it without firsthand experience... that curiosity is what drives development into a mature adult.

Jane... I have to disagree with you. These kids are not doing this to make adults angry... Maybe one or two, but for the most part it is about learning and understanding THEIR OWN sexuality. When kids are dancing they aren't thinking about the faculty member standing to their left... they are thinking about the young man or woman they are dancing with, and about how they may have waited years for that moment. You sound a bit full of yourself thinking it is about you. When you come stand next to them, they stop dancing because they are embarrassed.... of you. Sorry if that sounds rude. I am 27 and remember high school dances.. we did all this too when I was there, it's not new. Thinking that kids are going to learn the 'appropriate' dances you describe is hilarious, though. That was good for a laugh. Sorry, Jane, but you are so out of touch with today's youth you should retire if you haven't already.

"They're putting on a show, and they're challenging the authority and that is the only real purpose behind it."

You are right, they are putting on a show... for each other, not you.

"here's the "bottom" line: if a kid is asked repeatedly to stop a certain behavior and he repeatedly does not stop, then he is doing it on purpose in order to elicit a certain response."

No, it means they really wanted to do it, and they didn't care what you thought. Again, you are making it about you because the kids don't respect your authority or opinion. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU. That is the most important message I can send you. Kids don't care what you think, they care about each other! If they only dance that way to make you 'uncomfortable' then explain to me why it is the same way kids dance at house parties where the adults are not in direct supervision? Kinda blows holes in your whole silly theory.

"Why do they dance that way? I'm not sure, because it looks stupid and if they're trying to look hot, they're not succeeding."

Well, Jane... I don't think it is you they are trying to impress, and how would you have any idea of what looks 'hot'?

Look, every generation has its own share of problems as far as raising the next generation. But really we're talking about the same things from generation to generation. We're talking about how to teach our kids how to gauge different situations and adjust themselves to those situations based not only on what they want but also what is acceptable for everyone else as well.

You can disagree about how and why kids behave the way they do, but there are literally mountains of research that show that kids are thoughtful, sensitive and are influenced by lots of things. Some of those things are subtle, some are not so subtle. Kids not only care about what people think about them, they can become seriously depressed if they think they're being rejected. Almost everything they do is with the idea that they hope other people will be impressed or think its cool. But don't believe me if you don't want to, go look at the evidence yourself.

If you're asking me to argue every single angle of every single point, forget it, there's too much. I can tell you from the point of view of my 13 year old son that he is not comfortable with some of the types of dancing out there and he's not the only one. He isn't comfortable doing it, he isn't comfortable watching it, but no one here seems to care about his right to not have to deal with this behavior. However, if they start to cancel dances because kids can't behave appropriately he absolutely will be effected in spite of the fact that he follows the rules for conduct at school. If you think kids aren't pushing boundaries a lot in their formative years, then you are either naive or in denial. Again, there is tons of research on the subject. LOOK IT UP!

As for what looks hot...I can tell you that two 14 year old kids rubbing their crotches together on the dance floor is NOT hot. It is disturbing. And they know that. They aren't embarrassed of me, they're embarrassed for themselves. Personally I find two adults engaged in the same behavior in a public place to also be disturbing and not at all attractive. Who here likes to watch people dancing that way? Who here likes to watch 14 year olds dance that way? I'd really like to know.

I've worked with kids since I was 14 years old, younger even because I started babysitting when I was 11. Almost every job I've had in the last 30 years has been with children of all ages and all ability levels. I've yet to hear from anyone who has an equal amount of experience make any comments contrary to what I've said.

So, tell me, what kind of dancing would be considered inappropriate to you people? (Let's keep thinking of 14 year olds here, since that is the age many kids enter high school. If it helps you can always picture your own 14 year old in these situations.) If a boy rubbing his covered penis against a girls covered pelvis or her covered behind is acceptable then what is not? If a boy cupped a girls breasts on the dance floor would that be ok? As long as they're "just dancing"? How about a girl on her knees in front of a boy with her face pushed against the fly of his jeans? Would that be ok? As long as they're "just dancing"? How about a boy on the floor with a girl doing squats over his face? Again, "just dancing". Hell, why don't we just install a pole in every gymnasium so all the 14 year olds can go ahead and practice their strip tease moves?

Honestly people, I'm just a parent doing the best I can under the circumstances.

Should our kids be duct taped before they go out?

Why not make all the women wear black hoods and scarfs etc?

The people that make a big deal out of kids being kids just like they were are the real perverts.

Sexuality is human nature. Look at the world, stop the prude American church movement. Stop boxing people in with more and more laws!

So then.....you must be one of the ones who likes to watch 14 year olds grind?

Jane, you've done one personal attack after another. Give it up.

Everytime a damn teenager grinds he/she is OBVIOUSLY going to have sex immediately.

Oh wait? You're WRONG?! Oh no, it must be to piss you off, which although it's not intentional, I can see happening very well with your ageist attitude.

Oh wait... it can't be that?! They don't actually CARE what you think?!! God forbid! Well at least the adults are with you, right?

Oh wait... a lot of them disagree?! Oh, LAWD! They must be pedophiles that secretly get a kick out of watching the teens!

Hey guess what I got news for you Jane... most likely, they just like the fact that kids are having fun just like we were back then, not getting some sick kick. Most parents are actually really cool at dances, you don't even know what you're missing out on. Seriously, lighten up. Perhaps your kids will like you better.

Oh and by the way, at this quote:

As for what looks hot...I can tell you that two 14 year old kids rubbing their crotches together on the dance floor is NOT hot. It is disturbing. And they know that. They aren't embarrassed of me, they're embarrassed for themselves. Personally I find two adults engaged in the same behavior in a public place to also be disturbing and not at all attractive. Who here likes to watch people dancing that way? Who here likes to watch 14 year olds dance that way? I'd really like to know.

Maybe you've never danced like that, but as a 19 year old I can tell you that even at 14, that kind of dancing was pretty hot. And it did feel pretty good. And when you're in that dance you could get two f**ks what the kids and adults around you thought... like you focus on the feeling not on being cleverly "offensive" to all adults around.

In other words, you have your opinions all wrong.

I have not personally attacked anyone. Not once. I have not said kids are going to go have sex because of grinding. Not once. My opinions are not wrong. They're just different from yours.

Thank you everyone. I appreciate all who were respectful and thoughtful and even those who were not. This is part of the learning and growing process.

http://www.focusas.com/PeerInfluence.html

This is just one of many. Lots of information about adolescents and how to create positive boundaries But don't take my word for it. Go find your own information.

I don't know about you Jane... but I'd say that when your opinions are along the lines of "all adolescents care to do is make adults angry and embarrass themselves to make adults uncomfortable," I'd say that that's not a "different" but a wrong opinion.

I'd say the best way to get "information about adolescents" - be more open and talk to your kids. Nothing is a better source than actual adolescents about adolescent life, and if you are open and honest with your children then you can expect them to be more open and honest with you: of course you're not going to hear all the facts, realistically, but you'd probably get the best picture of what contemporary adolescent life is like.

They said this about rock 'n roll, they said it about the waltz, they certainly said it about the tango...

I am shocked, shocked, that Jim-346431 wrote "grinded". Never mind the dances, what's (not) happening in the classrooms?

As adults, we're are more and more permissive. Kids of all ages need bounderies. Boundaries mean that we care and that they matter. Add to no boundaries,we have given the media a green light to put whatever they want on TV. Those people on the tube or computer are our kids role models ( have step away from that by our behavior. What you see on TV, kids will be doing. Including being sexually active, bad attitudes, the 'I deserve a break today' or you are stomping on my rights.
Maybe we should stop allowing the media to dictate what comes into our homes. You pay the bills by watching - high rating mean ads have a chance to convince you, you can't be happy unless you have this -- whatever that is. So your kids want you to hand them everything - including a green light to behave in a manner that will effect their lives - probably negatively.And all the things they could think they need as of yesterday.

Yes, I agree. Justifiable boundaries are correct, but you need more than boundaries. You need good values-based education. A teenager correctly should be able to watch MTV and STILL realize why being sexually active early is wrong.

In other words teens need a reason for a boundary beyond simply "Because I said so," which parents are amazingly ignorant to the fact that the phrase does absolutely nothing.

Also I'd err on the other side - don't put "Red lights" on things that are only "probably negative" because that will be more negative than anything else. I'd say instead, put "red lights" on things that are only "definitely negative."

This means, obviously, think twice before sending your kids overnight to a random "opposite-sex friend's" house. Obviously don't buy alcohol for them. But, as for school dances and grinding, usually that's pretty innocuous.

That's their parents' job, jeannie not yours or mine or anyone else's.

Larry and god, you're probably right. My friends in the medical profession are seeing teenagers with cancer the cervix and all kinds of diseases. Yep, they're having sex anyway, so why not have foreplay at a school dance? btw, some of these teenagers are thirteen. It is now customary to test teenage girls for pregnancy before surgery. You get some really shocked parents when they learn that their daughter is pregnant. They are even more shocked when they learn that their daughter has no idea who the father is. Eight year olds are now considered pre-teens. Why are they growing up so fast?

Maybe if schools had more parent support at activities like school dances, we would be able to curtail a lot of behavior. I know when I chaperoned my teenager's dances, just being in the general vicinity discouraged a lot of inappropriate behavior.

Bottom line, if parents don't want to support their kids schools, what other choices do the schools have except to cancel otherwise benign activities.

Grinding is foreplay. No more and no less.

I find it absolutely disgusting to think about an adult watching minors in the act of public foreplay.

Yuck. Sick.

Some really twisted people here, foreplay? Jeannie, did you ever think about banning bible camp, where it all begins. Technically eight year olds are pre-teens, thats what it means, very pre-teen, but still it applies. While grinding may cross the line to bad behavior, the reasons are deeper than what the Southern Baptists would have you believe. Put the bible down and start being parents (plural).

explorerdog, I'm 100% with you on that one!

Parents, start being parents!

How did religion get in to this discussion? How dare you accuse someone who is spiritual of not being a good parent. who are you the religion police. You non-religion people are really starting to violate the rights of those of us that choose to believe in a higher being and have morals and integrity. My son was raised believing in something more than himself, and that he had responsibilities to not only himself but to others, now it has become all about me me me, and if it violates your rights to bad it is about me. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I try very hard not to judge others although I am as guilty as the next and slip at times but if we as a society are going to make it we do need to consider the people next to us. What you believe or do in your own home as long as you are not committing a crime is your business. and as far as the dancing I agree with those who have stated that this is for shocking the adults which has been done for years, some rules maybe but the harder you push the harder they will push back. Open communication with your children is the best way to help your child grow into a responsible and respectful adult.

Religion ends up in all discussions of this type by people who believe that religion is more important than reality, and also by people who have removed religion from our schools and other public places.

The government, and the courts keep bowing down to only a few even though the majority want to have prayer in school, or even a moment of silence for those who deserve it.

My children were brought up with a choice..... church, or not. They chose church at first and then decided that they could still keep god in thier life and not goto church. My daughter told me that too many priests were being accused of molesting kids (mostly boys) and no longer wanted to goto church. I agreed and allowed them to stay at home. Neither of my daughters wanted anything to do with sex until they were married. Yes, they have morals!! If you can help your kids to make good decision's then it should make no difference what kind of dancing they do. To finish, if you do not like what your children are doing, talk first, but ensure that your children understand how you feel and where you are coming from so they can continue to make good decisions they will not regret later in life.

Cbarker -

"You non-religion people are really starting to violate the rights of those of us that choose to believe in a higher being and have morals and integrity."

You should be ashamed of this statement. Period.

". Neither of my daughters wanted anything to do with sex until they were married."

Yeah, girls always tell their dads that to make them feel better. But one wonders anyway, why a girl would even be discussing her personal life with daddy. Hint: she shouldn't be. It's her business.

bonos~ You are right. Normally girls start distancing themselves away from their fathers because the fathers are usually very protective of their daughters because they know what they were like at that age.

The more you say NO to teenagers the more they will do it anyway. They are testing their independence and they will continue testing because you are the stupid dork parent.

My daughter has dated some real goons and I would bite my tounge and keep it to myself. I knew she would ask my opinion sooner or later. My philosphy is to ask him to dinner, every family function, every church function etc. Either I was going to learn to like them or they would get tired of me and my functions and leave. Now when she has new boyfriend I will tell her, "Don't waste much time with this one!"

well way i look at it is, altho a "freedom of exspression", it isnt proper for underage kids to act like adults. it is a school function, kids of all ages, not the club where you pick up your next lay, if you get my drift.

Right, why don't they just screw on the dance floor? I don't want to see adults rubbing pelvises in public and the same for teens -- it doesn't matter if it's a dance or the mall.

Maybe parents should start "grinding" out in public and see what happens. Their kids would be mortified.

No, its not just the way kids dance. If it were they'd be experimenting with other types of dancing and not just the ones that get them thrown out of the dance.

Maybe parents should start "grinding" out in public and see what happens. Their kids would be mortified.

This might do the trick.

Thank you, megalodon, it's adult behavoir that kids get into that grow them up way too fast...i go out to clubs and I don't like random guys grinding up against me...like a friend of mine said last time we went out, "apparently dancing with me is humping my butt...yeah, that's classy." Us adult girls don't like it all the time and we respect ourselves enough to put the brakes on if it gets too weird...these kids (girls especially, the younger ones) aren't always seeing that its the "next step" down the road to something else that they're willing to do with their partner that could get them in trouble. I think it's totally innapropriate for kids to be doing and high schools should be cracking down on it!

Wow cat - if some idiot grinded on me in a club, back in the day (Disco was king), I'd have been mortified first, and pissed second. Ugh!!

dcer.....You call that DANCING? Get real...it's meant to give the guy a boner and let the girl feel lika goddess for giving him one. He could get the same effect "grinding" on a fence post.

It's gross, and it is NOT dancing! Dancing is an art, not stand-up screwing.

If these kids can't have respect for themselves or others...then no school sponsored dances..

You call that DANCING? Get real

That the reaction of EVERY generation about the dancing styles of the next. I have no doubt that the minuet was scandalous at some point.

Stop worrying about it. We grew up OK. They will, too.

Barry...You are comparing "grinding" to the Minuet?? THAT'S quite a stretch.... Nice that you grew up okay after dancing that nasty Minuet. How OLD are you????

The late 1990's early 2000's it was the Raves where adults would rent warehouses or barns to kid's so they could dance to RAVE music and do Ecstasy all night. Not everyone did drugs but people had a problem with that also.

I totally agree but just because they'll find a way doesn't mean the school has to allow them to simulate it on a dance floor with a mixture of school ages to see...they're not adults yet, they still have to play by the rules...if a student deciees later on she was sexually harrased and that the school did "nothing about it" in this day and age her paretns will sue the scool and win because the school wasn't tough enough to put rules in place to teach kids how to behave in public and respect on another...our general manners are slipping and treating kids likes by letting them do what they want isn't the best idea.

And you know Dave if parents didn't let their kids "Date" at 12 and have boyfriends and girlfriends their wouldn't be so much trouble as well.

JK - you are probably right. It seems a lot of kids just hang out and then hook up. If you bring a child up correctly, hopefully you should have to worry about it!

Right Dave...If they want to go out to the car and screw, you can't stop them. But why give them the venue for foreplay.

Aggie

Great point. And why give the boys a chance to bet all worked up that when a girl thinks about it and says no, he keeps pushing her. Not that I promote being a total square. But if you keep some limits, you keep the bar a little higher. If you set the drinking age at 21, well the 18 - 19 year olds are drinking more often. If you set the drinking age at 18, the 14- 15 year olds are drinking more often. Yes, I know they do it now, but it just makes it easier and therefore more of it.

Kevin....I THINK I know what you mean. The lower the bar is set, the lower the kids will behave. Right? And I agree...

No, it's all about if the kids RESPECT the bar that is set. Most kids will respect the law because . . . it's the law. It's not, what seems to them, parents freaking out about something stupid.

Only if you raise the bar in a respectful manner will the effect work. If not, kids will hate you for it.

And you know Dave if parents didn't let their kids "Date" at 12 and have boyfriends and girlfriends their wouldn't be so much trouble as well.

That's right! My 19 y/o son has never really "dated" because the only girl he has liked is still not allowed to date (same age as him). He courted with her parents permission, but no dating. There is nothing wrong with that. My 14 y/o daughter will not date until I say so.

So, zera, you are saying the kids have to respect the bar? The schools have to set the bar in a respectful manner? Since when do kids dictate how far up the bar should be set? From their vast life experiences? The schools are trying to protect the kids from themselves. That's why there are rules. And if the kids hate you for them, so be it. They'll grow up someday and get wiser.

Did anyone else think it is odd for a school to let teens sign a form stating they wouldn't grind before going to a dance? Think about it, legally. If the kid is under 18, don't they need a parent/guardian signature?

I thought signing a form was a bit off the wall. Having the parents sign a form.......... promising that their kids won't grind at a function that they weren't even at? That would be a can of worms. Wouldn't that say to the parents "We want to have a school function but we have no idea how to control your kid's".

School dances in my area went by the way side. When both of my kids were in school, 2003 & 2007, the only dance was prom. In Jr. High they had dances for birthday parties, church dances, school, nothing fancy. If I felt like they were getting to chummy, I'd turn the lights up and have a game, like blanket races, tricycle races.

Who is being forced to watch?

Don't want it, then have your own dance like the kids who did want it in the school that banned it had. Have a No Freak Dancing dance! See how many kids show up to that!

A school I worked for had to cancel all dances because they were having so many problems with kids showing up drunk or on drugs. So if schools don't want to allow drunk dances, kids should have their own? I'm sure you'll get lots of adult chaperones for that one.

Jane - our high schools had the kids line up to go in, had to do a breathalyzer to check for alcohol - to discourage drunks. They only do this randomly now, as it causes quite a back-up at the door.

Can you miss it? What about all the others who want to go their for a good time watching this? People should be mortified if their kids were acting like this. The kids should be embarrassed.

doing something right? Being the same old control freaks they always are, while they give the kids the lies about what a free country we are. Free to do only as WE say you can! God forbid you have a mind of your own. Surrre, we could smoke in schools, we had streaking, we had love ins and communes and partied away, but you kids now better not do any of that or dream up anything for your own generation to do. You are free and in a free nation. Just do your homework and organized sports and wear your school uniforms and stay in your place which is not wearing pants WE say are too low, Freak dancing, or even doing some awful thing like drinking a soda. Ain't it great being free to do what you're told!!

We're talking about kids. Teenagers. Have you ever seen a couple of 13 year olds grinding?

Schools are supposed to set appropriate boundaries. I don't know of any school that allows students to smoke, allowed streaking or sponsored love-ins or communes. If my stopping my 13 year old from grinding makes me a control freak, then so be it. I happen to think something else more important is being taught at the moment.

I'm not for schools being control freaks -- I think they should leave that little boy alone about his hair --- I don't like pieced lips or noses, but they are harmless..... But, simulated sex on a dance floor goes beyond decency standards--- kids today are totally out of control.

I do like the idea of parents doing the grinding in public--- the quickest way for something to become UNcool is for parents to do it...... Choose your battles.

I also think they should get the grandparents of these kids to chaperone the dances--- that would funny.

KW - that's funny on the grandparents! But my mother would absolutely croak if she saw some of that, she couldn't handle me in a halter top and bell bottoms in the 70's, and thought it was terrible kids were going to school in blue jeans, lol.

venter10....I hope you don't have any kids, ever. It's a good thing the school's are stepping in on this freak dancing, because parents like you are ,or might be, are clueless and negligent.

Addiem- right on! MY mother grabbed me when I was 16, and TOLD me to get a haircut because I wasn't going to be like "those hippies, the Beatles!" (this was 1966, before the drugs came in...you know- the bowl haircut with the bangs....)

Girls had to wear skirts (NOT skorts, even!) boys in slacks, NO jeans.

And we did a little grinding of our thighs even, and somehow survived.

I agree that schools should set standards. Unfortunately, the people who are setting the rules are too interested in imposing their OWN standards as though they are some sort of universal truth. That's why the kids don't respect those rules. They just seem arbitrary and out-of-step with the world around them.

If you're going to set rules for dances, make the reasons for those rules relevant. Don't ban "freak" dancing because it offends parents. Ban it because it makes other students uncomfortable and intrudes on their rights. And, get the kids involved in formulating the standards. You'd be surprised at how mature some of them can be.

"Ban it because it makes other students uncomfortable and intrudes on their rights"

Sure, until boys start complaining that girls complaining about their rights intrudes upon the boys' rights to get a free lap dance! Damned feminazi girls!

;)

What rights are being intruded upon?

and shows why parents need to be parents, and not just someone who dishes out food, clothes, and a roof over the head, letting them do whatever they please, as long as "nobody gets hurt".

The saying kids will be kids, is true in all respesct. They will rebell of course. Point is, they are still young, and growing. Monkey see, monkey do, from watching tv, plaing video games, or whatever, is where parents need to draw the line. As it said in the article, they do it because people on tv do it. That part i think i can take some part in believing, as well, wanting to be more grown up than they are.

Adults are the same thing. They see people on tv do or buy something, they have to do/have it too. Looks like we gotta outlaw tv and all other types of entertainment from kids and adults. Then everyone would be the same, never think of having any life but to work, eat and sleep and everything would be under control. How wonderful. (NOT!)

I am sure that during the grinding dance that no one is sexually aroused to the point that given a window of opportunity, kids will take it to the next level. Being sexually aroused several times over a regular dance time period would certainly make any normal male or female strongly consider going to the next level.

Right on Phillip! I think I remember hearing parents in the 1800's fussing about young people doing the waltzes on some program. Just the same old circle. Every time the parents act like nothing this dreadful happened before. "Oh what's this world coming to!" nonsense never ends.

really not sure i want to think about my parents griding...thanks... (lol)

No teenager likes grown-ups telling them what to do. Does that mean you just let them all do whatever they want, whenever they want? Some people on this post are just spineless. The kids will whine, push, accuse of the "P" word (Prude--ooooh!!), tell you it will happen anyway all in a effort to get you to back down. And for so many adults, afraid of the "P" word, that's exactly what they do, back down. It's just easier.

And, yes, every generation gets worse and worse. Yes, I said WORSE! Let your imagination run wild if you dare and picture what limits (if there are any left!) teens will be pushing next generation. Is that really where you people want us to go?? Yes, and dreadful things do happen. We wring our hands about teen-age pregnancy rates rising, about sexual diseases, single moms, kids growing up without a stable family but we fail to connect the dots when we continue to lower the bar of sexual behavior for teens.

AND DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THESE KIDS SAY---THIS DANCE IS SEXUAL IN NATURE AND IT ABSOLUTELY LEADS TO SEX. DON'T BE NAIVE.

HOORAY LISA....Finally a THINKING adult. The bar has been getting set lower and lower and lower, and it is indeed fearsome imagining what will be "acceptable" down the road. Or should I say, down the toilet.

Why would any parent think it's okay for their girls to be "humping posts" for hormone raging adolescent boys, or their boys to act like horney dogs?

LOL Rory, I feel you as I just lost a battle in my house over the "school approved tennis skirt" that measures just over 12 inches from the waist to the bottom hem.

But does it go that way or the other way? Don't scream and fuss and the kid pushes further? Here in Backwoods PA the schools are dreaming up crazy dress codes, (one school even controlling the color clothes kids would be allowed to wear!), that keep kids busy fighting, so they never have the time to think up new stuff to try. 1950's kids had to put up with static if they did the twist. Now they have to go further since nobody would tell them no and fuss and scream over that anymore.

LOL Rory, I feel you as I just lost a battle in my house over the "school approved tennis skirt" that measures just over 12 inches from the waist to the bottom hem.

How?

Rory, not so! In previous generations, this sort of behavior was not allowed, was not expected to happen, so it did not. The adults made sure of that. In more recent generations, the adults have not done this. However, this article shows that some are stepping up to the plate again, and they have the ability to stop the dances and make other rules to make the environment what they want it to be. My son went to a dance at his school last year, and the couples were not dancing this way, and the kids had a wonderful time. None of them went out and started their own freak dancing rebellion.

Perhaps we should take a step back? Come Megladon, be strong! You can do it. Setting rules for behavior is not whips and chains, it's actually being a loving, responsible adult.

dave i think if my kid asked me to go to a private held dance, because...lol ..olf geezers were going to ruin her fun, i'd have to say no. kids can have just as much fun without bumpin uglies in front of a crowd of kids as they can dancing like kids.

Maybe They Should Just Boycot School All Together, And Find A Way To Get An Education On There Own. ---------------Moron

You can keep your kids sheltered all you want. But, if you raise your kids right and you believe in them and trust them, then you have nothing to worry about. But, shackeling them and forbidding them to dance is overbearing and will cause your kids not to talk to you.

I have raised 4 wonderful children and have 13 grandchildren and all my kids can talk to me about anything without fear. And at first I was shocked. But, i held it in and was able to deliver a response that has garnered me more respect between all of us.

Even my grandchildren talk to me. All of my family to this day come to me for advice. They know they can trust me to give them all the pros and cons. We have a better understanding and love for each other now.

Like I said you have to able give them freedom and trust that they make the right decision. Sometimes they will make mistakes. But they grow and learn from them. I know it is a hhard thing to do at times. But, your children might surprise you and that is when you know that you have done right in raising them.

They can leave and have sex if they want. Not everyone at a high school dance is 16+ yrs old. Freshmen are 13 -14 years old.

And then the parent starts to act like a parent and exercises the authority to decide which dance the kid attends. I definately would insist that my child attend the school sponsered dance.

If you raise your kids right, they won't want any part of the smut described in the article. Your sons won't act like mindless animals, and your daughters won't act like pieces of meat. If they do act like that, you're failing as a parent and better start picking up the pieces before your kids fail at life.

I think the kids should get together and hold their dance at a different location where the schools have no authority

If you are a parent and saying that --- YOU are the problem!!!!

KW-463491

If you are a parent and saying that --- YOU are the problem!!!!

Well, you must have a really bad relationship with your children if you do not trust them! I feel sorry for your kids. You definetly should not be allowed to procreate! Your the type of parent that would keep their child locked up in a room. How many times have you abused your child? Your the one that should have child protective services come in and investigate your childrens welfare.

Dave, supervision and trust have nothing to do with each other. I do trust my 13 year old...I trust him to think, behave and make decisions like a 13 year old, not like an adult. There is a huge difference. His lack of experience and understanding of consequences is exactly why he needs supervision.

There is a reason the kids in the article chose to organize a different activity, it was expressly for the purpose of not having supervision, so they could do as they pleased. That doesn't seem either mature or trustworthy to me.

There is a huge difference

Exactly!!! It's called parenting! My relationship with my kids is just fine.

Janeinthisworld Dave, supervision and trust have nothing to do with each other.

Actually I believe they do. I have 4 grown children and 13 grandchildren. And when they attained the age of 13 they no longer required Supervision. Maybe my kids were more mature. We raised them differently, I guess. But, my children could talk to me about everything. They had no fear. And, to be quite honest they told me everything. Somethings would probably make you cringe. However, I raised them to be completely and without hestation honest in everything they did. They told me everything about their lives, and still do to this day. They get an honest an answer and they knew I would hold nothing back from them. That is why they were able to handle life probably a lot better than most kids at that age. And they knew when to leave a sutuation that was wrong. And they could call me at any time for help.

You think they told you everything. I'm more than willing to bet they held back on a lot of info they didn't think you needed to know.

Raising your children right doesn't mean they become immune to making mistakes. Nor does it mean that they will never, ever participate in inappropriate or unhealthy behavior.

I've known lots of "mature" kids, they got good grades, had good attendance, went to church, had a job, participated in volunteer positions and extracurricular activities and sports, they were the leaders in their classes. They all came from "good" families. But some of those same kids were the ones who went to raves on Friday nights, took a hit of ecstacy and got drunk until they were falling down. I remember one girl from the Christian Youth club who took her 11 year old sister (whom she was trusted to babysit) with her to a rave and told her to stay in the car, which younger sister did until 3 am when her sister finally came stumbling back to the car.

Like I said, trust and supervision are separate. Even as a school employee for 20 years, it took me a long time to come to that conclusion. (I used to think the same way you do.) I trust a teenager will act and think and behave like a teenager...not an adult....because they're not adults.

Real maturity comes with time and experience.

Jane, so nice to hear a mature, clear headed response. Dave is all proud of himself that his kids and grandkids "tell him everything." Is this the goal of parenting? Let them go and run wild and then tell you everything? Then you pat yourself on the back for being a good parent...

We were all 13 once, and if we're honest we will admit that we were nowhere near mature enough to make good decisions about the major issues of life on our own. We needed guidance and limits. Kids deep down want this. Nobody wants to flounder, end of getting a couple of abortions, sexual diseases, suffer the poverty of being a single parent as a way of "growing up." It is not necessary and can be avoided. Kids earn trust when they follow your guidance and limits.

And your guys' point is? It seems that Dave's children still grew up to be mature, responsible adults who seem to be responsible parents.

The point is that you can't be the "catcher in the rye" so to speak - yes, you have to teach your kids well and give them as much experience as you have from what you learned, but the point is they will still have to go out and find things out the hard way. Also Jane you speak of this:

I've known lots of "mature" kids, they got good grades, had good attendance, went to church, had a job, participated in volunteer positions and extracurricular activities and sports, they were the leaders in their classes. They all came from "good" families. But some of those same kids were the ones who went to raves on Friday nights, took a hit of ecstacy and got drunk until they were falling down.

--Frankly, I'd say that at least it's a good thing that they are still getting good grades and doing good things! I'd rather see that than some overstepped kid who may not be doing that, but is doing nothing good either... in fact I"d say that's an example of GOOD parenting, not bad parenting and most likely these students are on the side of growing up to be responsible adults.

Jane, Lisa, you guys were all 13, and you already admit you needed guidance and limits. But let me ask you: how often did you break those limits and disregard the guidance as well? The point is that kids, down to down, should do what they want to do.

And the final thing is this; the more limits my parents set on me, the more I knew to avoid talking about. If my mom really listened to everything I'd say, I would tell her a lot more and ask her about a lot more.... but because she was so adamant that I couldn't date I never told her about my girlfriends. Because she was so adamant on me *never drinking* and doing anything I always lied about what I did every weekend, or told her what she wanted to hear. The more she surfed to find out, the more I'd simply make up more stories. Nobody, especially not teenagers, want parents watching over them like their some overzealous dog on a short leash.

And on the whole grinding isn't really that sexual, it's more fun and there's not a steep learning curve. I really think this is just overzealous, jealous, adults overreacting.

The point is that kids, down to down, should do what they want to do.

Kevin, do you even have children? I can't help but read your comment and think that you just don't know what you're talking about.

but because she was so adamant that I couldn't date I never told her about my girlfriends. Because she was so adamant on me *never drinking* and doing anything I always lied about what I did every weekend, or told her what she wanted to hear. The more she surfed to find out, the more I'd simply make up more stories.

This is exactly why kids need appropriate supervision. You've just proved my point. Thanks.

No.... the point is simply that you can't supervise too much... it's basically a hopeless battle with 3 possible outcomes.

1 (the best outcome): Your kids lie to you and there is no trust whatsoever.

2: Your kids lie to you and screw their own lives up by doing things that are just TOO stupid for experimentation - aka crossing the real line. (Note, grinding will not screw your life up for good)

3: You are so totalitarian that you completely repress your kids, and they grow up to be all screwed up anyway because they never got a real taste of the world and instead were all sheltered and ignorant. This time they are screwed up not because of your inaction but your overreaction. The worst fate.

Give it up and do it fast. You're beginning to offend me now, are you implying I'm screwed up? Because the place I'm at, I'll *most likely* (I don't really know you so I can't make assumptions, but *if* you are at average...) be like 4 times as successful as you and your "high moral ground"

Nostalgia on the basement and the 45s - only we wanted at least one black light, oooh sooo cool, lol.

What I saw at middle school would have shut us down at my high schools tho'!

Your daughter went on a "date" and he rubbed his crothch on her? seems like someone didn't take the time to get to know a person before they went on a date. Did she think to walk off the dance floor. And where were the parents that check on what there kids wear to school, my daughter is not allowed to wear short, shorts to school, am I nieve enough to think that she can change clothes at school? No! but if and when I find out there will be reprecussions. But when the schools tennis, volleyball, uniforms leave little to the imagination then what do they expect at there dances?

mohican - that is above and beyond tasteless, I do know sometimes the really over-the-top "dancers" are being laughed at, sounds like you are describing one of those times. Gross.

I do wish the high schools could either take a stand on dress code - like actually enforce it, or just don't bother to make one and have uniforms. Sure they'd roll up the waistbands to shorten the skirts, but it would be an improvement over the free-for-all today. And cheaper for the parents.

Honestly some peoples reasoning amaze me. If grinding is allowed, with sexual stimulation using their hands be the next acceptable level. What would be the difference between sexual stimulation with ones leg or pelvic area and not ones hand/finger.

If parents truely beleive that their kids, by the time they're leaving middle school, have no concept of sex, masterbation, and sexual stimulation, then they are truely naive. I have 2 daughter (4 and 11) and a son (9). My two eldest know exactly what sex is with out me or their mother speaking overly on it. The school taught sex ed to my daughter in 5th grade. If that doesnt perk the youths imagination and curiousity i dont know what will. With all that is broadcast on TV, published in books, and taught in school, how can you expect them not to know. I don't object to the schools trying to set some limits, but there are those who might as well be fascist nazis and extremists when it come to their ideals of limitation and control. I have no objection to my kids experimenting, but I do emphisize to them that when the time comes for partners, there will be two major rules. It will be done using protection in the obvious cases and I will be the one who approves or disapproves of their partner if they so choose one. I know i started when I was 11 and my parents set the same rules.

Honestly it's meant to feel good, be fun, but also be casual. I think you guys have the wrong mentality behind grinding and just are sexophobic: usually it is just meant in good fun, the people who have sex will have sex regardless of grinding.

Oh, I have no qualms with anything sexual, let alone "grinding". You are right, they will have sex regardless of what they do at a dance and how they dance, and regardless of any controls the schools may try to impliment.

REPRESSED?? SERIOUSLY.. they will soon be having sex on the dance floor and then that will be ok too??! Leave the dry humping to the bedroom and for the girls..learn some self respect!

"and for the girls..learn some self respect!"

I should think that comment should be aimed at both girls AND boys.

First of all I can't even imagine how a boy must smell after he's done grinding, if you get my drift. He's got to go around the whole evening with sticky, smelly boxers; talk about no self-respect. Damn. LMAO.

I must address this fear of being called a "prude." This is a most dangerous fear and I am sure it is the root of all the problems we are discussing here. The word "Prude" is the root of the word "Prudence." This word--almost out of the current English vocabulary--can be defined as "caution with wisdom." If there is any word that is needed in the sexual behavior of our young people, it is this.

Yes, because violence solves everything.

The cattle prod is no comparison to labor pains...guess it all depends on what you call violence.

Wait, huh?

So if labor pains are a type of violence...

does that mean that abortion is self-defense?

arm the chaperones with cattle prods

The kids are acting like animals--- you might be onto something :-)

You have to remember. These days they don't teach kids how to survive in the real world. They don't tell them that things aren't just handed out on a platter. They teach them that everything is pieceful and jolly. They teach that money grows on trees. They don't tell them that the world is hell and how to survive. This is suppose to be our future. If you ask me, I'm not liking the odds.