drushalli

It is a good idea to get this concept out in the open. So many people feel guilty but as some have posted, it's the only humane end.

The issue for the state is always the behavior of unscrupulous characters who use these methods for ulterior motives.

Yes, this occurs in patients of any age. It probably is less stressful (never easy) for the doctors when easing the suffering of older patients. When there is a DNR (do not resuscitate) request from the patient, the doctor knows that this person does not want to be in a prolonged condition of agony, when there is no hope of recovery.

Exactly. If you are terminal, please just make them comfortable with pain meds. Addiction is not a concern for dying patients.

Thats what I was thinking. Who gives a crap about addiction when you're dying? Sometimes doctors have no common sense.

Yup. We just went through it with my wife's grandfather. What difference does it really make in the end? A human being in terrible agony is not something you wish to prolong no matter how old or young they are.

We told the physician to make him "comfortable" and that's just what he did.

It's just real tough to think about with children, but it is very real.

RIP - to your Grandfather in law..

Paintcraze I'm sorry for the loss of your father, but know that it must have been comforting that he went peacefully with dignity and no pain. It's very hard for many families to go through this with all ages, but I too hope someone forwards the same dignity to me when it's my time. God bless you.

Has anyone ever told you that your family is awesome?

We did the same for my husbands grandmother, and it was the most serene, loving, and touching experience for us. Let them have thier meds, and thier dignity!

Thanks RiverDog. The path is not always an easy one but so far we've found the way. As mommamarss said, the experience is worth the price.

As I started reading rrobeson I knew I would respond. After finishing I realized I just don't know how !!!

They put a computer in the local nut house for an hour tonight!

problem robeerson.... most the people we are reffering to are children, in the article anyway. i cant off hand for the life of me, think of one child, that should suffer in agony, because someone feels it is gods will for them to do so. I must admit, there are adults, i may agree to your view on, however, you need to have done some really wrong things for me to want to see you suffer, especially, from the likes of cancer.

It was obviously a sarcastic rant, so I voted it up.

blah, blah, blah......a religious zealot, misinformed and blinded...

yet there are relious folk who feel doctors are the tool of the devil, however, if god didn't want us to be doing any type of healing, he wouldn't allow the medicial fiels to be as it is today. God grants us all wisdom, and compassion, satan does not. Therefore, the relgious who fear the healer, are afraid more of something they do not understand. Rather in reference to the salem witch trials, and of sorts.

If you have children and/or pets rrobeson, please tell us where you live.

All I can say after reading that is I am glad I really don't believe in a God like that..Have fun with that...

R YourRobesON.....Are you off your Meds today Buddy???????????????????

This is obviously a sarcastic comment, guys. rrobeson is pointing out the stupidity of opposing euthanasia for terminal patients.

Obviously he is using sarcasm to make his point that, this country has lost its way in religious BS and just plain idiocy. This mercy killing happens every day. It has happened for much longer than we realize and it is OK. I hope that a nice big morphine bolus is delivered to my wasting carcass at the moment my pain from terminal illness is too much to tolerate. I am a Vet and I've allowed many animals to end life without prolonged horrible pain. Dieing is part of living, but ending in insufferable pain does not need to be in the equation.

Wow, so people who help ease the pain of children should be tortured? Quite a hypocrisy there. Especially if you insist this in the name of God. Don't distort the words of the Lord to fit some twisted hate scheme you have going here.

Your "god" sucks.

If there is anything I have learned posting in online forums, it is that sarcasm is too often taken seriously. Hehehe.

rrobeson------- If there is justice in the universe, you will contract some loathsome disease, that will keep you in extreme screaming pain for an incredibly long time.

I stood beside my wife's bed for 5 long days, listening to her moan and cry. Fortunately for both of us she passed away, I was at the point where a doctor was going to do some thing for her, or I was.

An obvious bit of spiteful sarcasm. How unfortunate that those who believed the rant to be ernest have most likely had encounters with individuals who would opine thusly.

Why are there so many people who cant see the sarcasm in rrobeson's comment? lighten up people, if my loved one was terminal, I would push for a quick ending, and would hope my loved ones would do the same for me, these are not times for religion, but times for intelligent thought, and mercy, Dr. Kevorkian was way ahead of his time.

You religionists should have the right to die in pain if you so choose. I respect that right. But you have no right to use your superstition to deny others assisted death.

I don't think this is a topic where someone should be like "oh hai wouldn't it be funny to be a sarcastic asshatt?!". Then you have the people who say it while we all sit here thinking "man I hope that's just a sick joke", only to find out that in fact they were serious. Sadly I have seen my fair share of people who would say BS like this, and mean it. More of them than the sarcastic asshattery type.

People are too literal. The sarcasm was obvious, I think most see it..

The point was clearly lost on all posters here, both to the truly stupidly religious and the supposedly enlightened who actually opened a book a couple of times in their life.

It is clearly impossible for any majority of our brother humans, including most posters above, to advocate for a merciful ending to a terminally painful end for 1000's of your brother humans. How sad for you all. May you all hope to endure the same suffering during your end and wonder when the abyss appears before you, how and why your fellow man can be so cruel, stupid and inhuman and yet still even try to speak and spell the word of God. Unfortunately, God is so omnipotent he created the entire universe. Equally unfortunately, he's clearly too stupid to be able to read and write a simple book. Same for his son I guess.

It is also truly amazing how many people actually believe that sarcasm is reality. I guess that's the only logical explanation for the followers of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. They must laugh all the way to the bank at how stupid humans are.

Does this make sense to any sane person?

Uno Solei:

Don't know, what does 'this' mean? Didn't your teachers teach you how to communicate clearly?

There is NO god- The Bible is fiction.

What we do on Earth stays on Earth.

from Rrobeson:

It is also truly amazing how many people actually believe that sarcasm is reality

Unfortunately, there are enough truly bizarre people on the vine that it can sometimes be difficult to tell when someone is being sarcastic. unless one already recognizes the poster when they are being serious.

Of course, I also wonder how many people stopped at the first paragraph of your original post, and therefore missed the part where the sarcasm became obvious.

I've seen a few posters where the first paragraph would have been just about right.

I, like rrobeson, think one should be wary of anyone who claims to know God's will. From Pat Robertson to Osama bin Laden to phillyboy (scroll down) they ALL want to dictate how you live and the choices you make.

I'm also strangely reminded that following Katrina, some of the NO Doctors that actually stayed behind to care for hospitalized people that could not be evacuated, were prosecuted, criminally, for doing the exact same thing on the terminally ill patients in their care, and under these most difficult of circumstances.

While I understand that doctors get to bury their mistakes, and that our trust in them should necessarily be limited, we should at least provide a common legal basis for making these terribly difficult choices. Or else some do-gooder, who claims to know the will of God, will prosecute you, also, for hastening your terminally ill child's demise.

I do not believe in a God that will allow children and adults to suffer horrific agony. That is not a loving God to me. "Suffer the children to come unto me"...No parent in their right mind would let their child lay there in agony and pain while knowing there is no hope of cure and death is near. I would never, ever let a family member of mine suffer until the end that way. For those who believe that God wants us to suffer....I say you are idiots. I do not believe that. Which is why I believe most of the printed words in the Bible were man-words...not God's. I do believe the Bible was written in the time of King James and use as a tool to keep the slaves in line, for fear that they would go against the bible is they waivered. I want to believe in a God who is kind, and does not take lives and wants people to suffer.

I would want relief for my loved ones during their twilight hours. I would want to remember them that way.

Cassandra,

Though I agree with you in principle, this issue, like many others in our society, lives, and country, is much more complicated than it seems. Fortunately, it does seem as though most people here are rather enlightened, at least to the point of respecting the patient's and parent's/guardian's wishes in regards to their own families. However, nothing is as it seems on the surface.

The truth is, Dr. Wolfe is being politic. She must deny any knowledge of these cases, and in fact must condemn them (openly) for her to keep doing her job. The AMA guidelines aside, these doctors must live a constrained life considering their interests - save life, end pain - when the two are diametrically opposed in a situation. Many doctors, I would hope, would choose the pain-ending option as the person is dying anyway, though of course with respect to the wishes of the patient (if they can communicate) or their guardian.

I have been fortunate enough not to have anyone in my family die of cancer. Alzheimer's is another issue. Dr. Wolfe may be sincerely expressing her beliefs that euthanasia is wrong in any circumstance, but it seemed to me that, reading between the lines, she is simply stating that if euthanasia is occuring at either of her hospitals, she must not admit to knowing it because admission would require her to interfere under law. At least, that's my opinion.

How do you know when there is no hope for survival. Where does prayer and faith in God come into play. I know it would be very difficult to see your child suffering but when there is even the slightest chance for a miracle happening I hope I would wait out on a miracle or on seeing my child die when they themselves die. I honestly cannot say what I would do in that circumstance but I hope I would trust God and leave it in his hands to heal or take life.

Please take this in this best posible way, phillyboy. The Lord made morphine possible, and I do not believe that He would hold it against me or my doctor if I wanted to end the suffering of a family member.

Miracles do occur, but sometimes those miracles are allowing someone to reach there end as peacefully as possible. To me it is no different than allowing a cancer patient to slip peacefully in a comatose state once their kidney's begin to fail, and they comfortably reach the end of their lives. Sure, it may be possible to try and keep the kidneys functioning longer, but that would also require the patient to suffer through treatments that are may only allow a few days or perhaps only hours of life, therefore making the treatments truly unnecessary.

I do trust in God, and I trust Him to guide my Doctor's hand and my voice when the time comes.

Excellent post, Karen.

Your pure evil

Joe 1588888.....Are you also off your meds today pal???????????????

Joe,

I'm going to burn for this, but I literally laughed out loud at that comment. Very funny.

That's terrible, Joe.

Terrible, just terrible....sometimes, a sick sense of humor is not appreciated, but thanks for the chuckle..

At least there are doctors that are willing to do the merciful thing.

Phillyboy, try being a hospice nurse for the day. It's not a job for the faint. People are suffering and God gave us the ability to help them by making them comfortable. Even morphine prescribed in small amounts have the potential to decrease your respiratory rate, but it eases pain, and helps those suffering die with a bit of dignity. God bless the doctors and nurses who are in this line of work, and doing the best they can for thier patients.

Phillyboy, go to a children's hospital in your area and find a child who's terminal and suffering. And while the child's parents are praying for some relief for their baby, try to grasp that Morphine might be God's answer to them.

Phillyboy, The problem with religion is this... You believe that everyone must believe what you do. Not everybody does. I am atheist, but that does not mean that I don't have ethics and morals. I do not force this view on anyone, in fact my twins (eleven) are christians. But, if one of them was suffering with terminal cancer, my duty as a mother is to protect them, even if that means from excruciating pain, I would. Nature can teach us alot. Even in the wild, if a young cub has a disease that will eventually kill it, the mother will mercifully kill the cub to put it out of its misery. That is real love, .... not sitting back and watching the one you love so much, suffering. There are worse things than death.

Do you know where Madolyn O'hair is??

Yes, she was murdered along with her family. I don't see anything wrong with prayer in school. It's not effecting me. But, don't tell me that watching a family member suffering, rather than be humanely overdosed on morphine, is wrong.

That is what they did to my mother in law. She was in the final stages of Alzheimers. The hospice nurse kept giving her the morphine. When it was oover the nurse poured the remainder down the sink, washed the bottle out, took the label off & threw it in the trash.

I'd choose a kind, loving atheist at my dying child's bedside over you. You have become your own god - making pronouncements to further YOUR agenda.

Philly: Doesn't the Bible say that God made man in his own image? What ever do you think that means?

No, we just believe we're talking to Gods. It makes us just so much more important than our neighbors!

Alise42.

It means that some male egomaniac wanted to believe that God looked like him!

Phillyboy,

Obviously, you have never seen a child die a slow, painful death. I have- many times, as a pediatric oncology nurse. Death is not like it is in the movies where someone says something profound, shudders a few times, and that's it. It's slow, and often, agonizing. To think that there can be a "miracle" once someone is ACTIVELY DYING from cancer that has metastasized everywhere is to be an ignorant fool, and again, you've never seen it. I can guarantee you would not be able to tolerate watching your child SCREAM their way out of this life for days on end while new tumors seemed to be almost exploding through his tiny body despite large amounts of pain medicine. I've seen that happen, where the only solution was "terminal sedation," in other words- sedating and medicating the child into pain-free unconsciousness and keeping them that way until they died. And if they stop breathing a few hours earlier? If you are religious, then THAT is the true mercy of God, who made the drugs available. Anyone, absolutely ANYONE who could stand there while this dying child screamed and screamed for hours and hours (or slowly choked on the inoperable tumor closing up his airway) and say that God meant for them to suffer like that or that we are playing God by relieving that suffering is a MONSTER. I'm betting you wouldn't be able to watch this happen in real life and deny the child the medication needed to stop the pain, because you have a heart. As for me, I consider a peaceful death to be deeply spiritual, and I'm proud to have helped ease the suffering when I could. Would some kids have lasted a few hours/ days longer without the drugs? Yes. Would that have been horrible and wrong to let them suffer without the medication? Yes. Were many of these families deeply religious with solid faith? Yes. Have I EVER seen any last-minute "miracles" where the cancer suddenly vanished? Never.

Again, you've never seen it, you have no idea of what it looks like or what you're talking about, and I pray you never do, that you may go on living in your blissful ignorance and never have to know the unimaginable pain these parents go through, watching their children suffer and die. Their final act as parents is to help their children die well, and they do it filled with love and with totally broken hearts.

phillyboy,I don't actually wish it upon you, but when you are terminal and in such agony that you can't even speak and only want the pain to end, just rely on prayer, don't even take a tylenol to reduce your pain, after all, God wants you to suffer in screaming agony at the end of your days, so you should just take it as He dishes it out to you, right?

Do as you wish, Phillyboy, but don't you DARE PRESUME to judge others!

otherwise you are commiting the very same sin you accuse others of.

(I really hate hypocrites.)

Augh!, I can't even imagine the heartbreaking pain of having a terminally ill child suffering needlessly alongside the equally horribly painful decision to end their pain.

for all that have been there; I AM TRULY SORRY!

Actually, I think the saying is "man created god in his own image". One always makes an almighty that resembles him/herself. (sarcasm)

Yes - everyone should be able to make their own choice. Their life and their death. No one should have to suffer with pain, especially children.

I believe though that there are many in the health care profession who are just afraid of any type of lawsuit that may develop from 'pulling the plug', or 'over dosing' the patient. Therefore, they are not willing to help end the suffering, and prolong a life regardless of what the individual wants or what family members request.

Living wills do help in many situations like this.

coloradogal - you're right about health care providers being so afraid of lawsuits, they're afraid to do now what doctors did quietly in the past. Doctors know that at a certain point, giving enough pain meds to keep the person comfortable will lead to respiratory depression and death. Their fear of doing this now is the unintended result of the "right to die" activists who made a public spectacle out of what used to be a private matter between the doctor, this patient and the family. People knew, but also understood somethings didn't need to be talked about. It's also the unfortunate consequence of our country's discomfort with death as a natural part of life. We have all these advanced life-saving and life-extending technologies, which I'm grateful for and have benefited from. However, these situations illustrate that we sometimes have technology beyond our wisdom and judgement regarding how and when to use it.

For adults, have a living will and make sure the people you name as medical power of attorney will follow your wishes. My living will includes "my" definition of "quality of life" and "reasonable medical expectation of recovery". It also states that I believe that death is a part of life and there are things I consider to be worse than death. . . and yes, I am a Christian and believe that God will intervene as He sees fit until my purpose here is finished.

rustyautumn - RIGHT ON and I completely AGREE with everything you've posted!

There comes a point when quantity of life means absolutely nothing without quality of life, at which point death would certainly be a welcome relief, especially if one is experiencing pain.

I greatly appreciate your comments and similarly subscribe to your beliefs.

You poor girl. I wish you nothing but the best. Couldn't imagine going through what you did.

You're stronger than me. I don't think I could handle it.

Ashleysmom, you gave your daughter comfort and dignity and most of all LOVE, and know that she's still very much alive in your heart and memories. You carry her with you everywhere you go. Everytime you feel the sun on your face, and a surge of happiness in your heart know that, that's your daughter saying "I love you Mom". We lost our little Abby three years ago, and having to have made a similar decision by the means of life support, it's very hard. But you did the most compassionate loving thing a parentin your situation could do, you let go. God bless you!

I pray that the Lord will give you peace in knowing that your child is with Him.

ashleysmom, be careful what you write lest you be prosecuted or murder.

A man in my home town, in his 80s killed his terminal wife and then killed himself. It was done for love, but call a murder - suicide

ashleysmom, i am glad you wrote because i was reading the posts wondering if anyone regretted what they asked for even if it was to end suffering.

Danielle,

Something for you to think about:

Suppose you were a very old woman miserably wasting away in a nursing home at great expense to your estate. Your children, your heirs, see what they consider to be your pointless suffering, and so they suggest to you that perhaps you might want to increase your morphine dosage for the obvious reasons.

How would you feel about your "right to die" becoming a "duty to die"?

(P.S., that's why euthanasia (assisted suicide) is illegal in most states.)

Economan - I hear what your concern is - that this will become a "slippery slope" situation where it moves from pain relief to others making judgements about the worth and value of your life.

There are no easy answers to your concern, but I think there is a fundamental difference between pain relief in terminal illness that may hasten death versus what you're describing.

The really difficult ethical and moral question for me is people who are suffering from horrible diseases like Lou Gehrig's, etc. who ask others to assist them. I pray I never have to face that situation with a loved one. . .

Rusty,

I agree with you about "no easy answers". Re your last paragraph, I've had several close relatives ask late in their lives, "Why won't they let me die?" I didn't have an answer.

Amen....I agree........ we asked for this assistance with my mother and were grateful for the

end to her unbelievable agony..........she was begging...... God love you tonight mama, I am glad it is over for you..............