You are both seriously in need of a wake up call!

Sex before marriage usualy ends a marriage in divorce because of guilt

Are you really trying to say this is true? Because, let me guess....you know the stats right? This is the most absurd thing I've ever heard!

And to top it off that they never had respect for the parents that brought her up into adaulthood.

Yes, because we all know I should live my life according to what my parents want, right? I suppose you don't realize the divorce rates are 51%. Which means, that I & 51% of other children were raised watching our parents get divorced. I expect my parents to respect themselves 1st, just like my parents expect me to respect myself 1st. I will do what is right for me, just as they & you will do what's right for you!

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not), but the Bible also says "Thou shall not judge".....guess you must've missed that part too huh?! When you stop picking & choosing the parts of the bible that suit your needs....then you can tell the rest of us how to live. Until that time hush your mouth!

John, you're so funny.

Do not fornify your body? Fornify? What the....? You think that's a real word?

That works for you john. That does not mean it works for everyone. Your god and bible are not the law of the land. Your opinions are not the only way either.

Good for you John, good for you! You can make an ass outta yourself all day I see. You assume you know me, you assume I'm some kind of whore, you assume my daughter's will be whores too....yep, you're not judgemental at all! As a matter of fact, regardless of how long you've been married & how old you are, I bet I can teach you a few things about the real world. Not all women are whores, not everyone who has sex has a disease, not everyone who has sex gets pregnant. Stop being so foolish!

Statistically speaking John.....you just think your daughters have used your example in their lives. With 5 daughters, I'd bet a million bucks not all of them (if any) were virgins until marriage. I'd also bet they don't talk to you about any real relationship or sexual issues because they fear you'll judge them. It's ok though John, believe what you want. I'm sure your worls looks beautiful inj those rose colored glasses you're wearing. Good luck with that!

As a Godless Heathen, I have tried to cut as wide a sexual swath as possible. In my travels I have met quite a few Good Christian Women and have determined that they are my favorites. Unlike girls who were raised with modern sexual ethics, GCW have no clue how to moderate their sexual impulses and tend (in my experience) to "put out" quicker. Experienced and mature women, however, are more wary of whom they share a bed with and much more likely to insist upon using protection.

So, to the original poster of this tread, I must thank you for providing society with a little more female naivety. I wish that there were more Real Men out there like you, having daughters.

"Experienced and mature women"

Interesting. My experience with more girlfriends than I would care to remember is the polar opposite. Younger women, particularly those from families with a strong religious background, were very concerned about preventing pregnancy, asking for HIV test results (though not carrying through, especially when they were asked for the same) and the use of condoms. They were very concerned about their father's reaction to their sexual activity. In my experience, this included Catholic, Protestant, Jewish girls and even several Muslim and one Hindu girl. Mature women (those 35 and over) were the least concerned, to the point where it scared me into avoiding this category of easy play. These professional, top university-educated, "strong" women needed little more than one proper date. I suppose I have women's studies programs to thank for that ease.

I lived with one boyfriend for 3 years. I didn't marry him. (THANK GOD!)

I lived with another boyfriend for 4 years. We are about to celebrate our 17th wedding anniversary.

We were just above "poverty level" for a good portion of that, and now we are comfortable. We've been completely faithful to each other the whole time. Our kids from a previous marriage as well as this one are doing just fine.

Marriage isn't "supposed" to be anything more than each of us makes it into. There are ideals, sure, but the bottom line is each of us is only responsible for our own marriage. Sometimes we make mistakes and choose wrong. Life goes on.

Amen Jane, Amen!

I have an aunt who is VERY Christian. Very, very Christian, like Evangelical Southern Baptist. So it took her 6 children and 17 years to realize that her marriage was no good. The difference now is that her ex-husband (still consider him my uncle) is very happy and in love with a woman who he has NO intention of either marrying or leaving. My aunt, on the other hand, finally divorced a nasty little scumbag she married a few years ago. I guess having a spiritual threesome with Jesus Christ just isn't enough to either change someones true nature or save a marriage.

Okay, thanks for sharing that data. The studies about cohabitation and divorce that I had heard of didn't come from any pulpits that I've sat under, and I was wondering why he used the word "dogma." This article didn't make sense to me since there wasn't reference to studies just "dogma."

A woman who is willing to cohabitate, is also more likely to leave an abusive dirtbag or a loveless marriage. In my family there has been many divorces. The only mistake amongst most of them is that they didn't get divorced sooner. Especially when my Mom married my sister's father. My little sister is one of the only good things to ever come out of that useless drunk.

I've always thought that to. The divorce rate does go up when a women or man (it goes both ways) does not HAVE to stay in the relationship. Being divorced is better then a bad relationship, especially if physical, mental or emotional abuse is present.

It's also possible you both had the same personality type which can be a huge problem. Perhaps you would both do better to find someone more easygoing. I'm sorry, but relationships will be more successful if you realize not everything is 50/50; sometimes, one partner needs to let more slide, but that's ok, because it doesn't bother that partner's personality type as much.

I'm sorry you have ruled out marriage in your life, Ben. It's very possible you just haven't met your other half yet. I spent almost 8 years with the same man living with him for the last 4 years of the relationship. Never got married and left him because I grew up and he didn't - I even had doubts throughout the 8 years starting right away. Then I met my now husband. And its like night and day. I knew right away I wanted to get married to him and couldn't imagine anyone else being in his place, never had doubts. I also lived with him for almost 2 years before we got married. Just saying you shouldn't rule out all options without knowing what your options are. But I do agree that living with your boyfriend/girlfriend before getting married can help you figure out if marriage is what you want with that person. :)

Jeklo wrote "It's very possible you just haven't met your other half yet."

This is such a female way of viewing marriage: the search for a soulmate to fulfill every emotional need instead of a father and husband.

Wow, Ian you are such a sad man. No bother...I am not here to please anyone on here anyway. Have a nice day though.

Jeklo, don't take offense to Ian. Through many of his posts most of us have come to realize he had an ugly divorce (or more) & isn't real fond of women in general. It's ok though.....with his outlook, I'm sure no woman's knockin down his door. At least he's honest about how he feels, I'll give him that.

Marriage is SO last millennium. I have enough skill at cooking to eat healthy, a dishwasher and access to more porn than I could ever watch in its entirety. What do I need a wife for? Companionship? I have many great friend, male and female, gay and straight, single and couples. I am 30 and get paid good money, don't need much else. I do want children one day, so I'll just have to convince my best (female) friend to let me knock her up. But not for atleast 5 to 10 years though.

While parental structure seems to be of little importance to you, your love-child will ache for the biological father that abandoned her/him and left them with a string of erratic part-time male fatherly substitutes that get boat loads of easy sex from single Mom for an annual trip to Disney Land. If you're not married to the mother of your child, you may get lucky with a short stint of visitation privileges while saddled with a couple of decades of child support payments. You'll be physically locked out of her childhood while she is building up a fantasy life with her real (biological) Dad.

Hey, I've been there with the 100+ girlfriends just throwing themselves at you. Eventually, you reach the age at which it becomes difficult to attract an early 30's mother. When they hit 33, you're seriously risking not ever having children. Though, these women are constantly citing Madonna as a role model for deferred motherhood.

Check out the new data - 30-32 is the new average age of getting married - meaning there are plenty who get married later. And the world keeps turning....

I know everyone has their opinion though I have to disagree with what you are saying. Because otherwise whats the point of staying in the marriage after the kids move away?

My Grandpa was married 5 times in his life. My biological Grandmother died before I was ever born. He just continued to just try and find the happiness again I suppose. I remember when he met my latest grandmother though - he was about 65 and she the same age. I was 12 at the time. He was so happy, they stayed married for about 7 years until they both died within 6 months of each other in 1999 - I strongly believe my grandma died of a broken heart because he was gone. I still think if he would have met her earlier there wouldn't have been any others. They were just destined to be together.

Marriage isn't just about having babies...that usually comes because of the love you have for one another - or the horniness of men, I haven't figured it out yet. lol. The companionship and financial relief sure did play a big part in my decision to get married. I want to have a baby, sure, but I would rather have him, my best friend, in my life and childless then be without him with a child.

Amen Jeklo!

My grandparents were married for 52yrs before my grandmother passed. My grandfather passed some 3months later.....& I too believe it was from a broken heart. Their love was amazing, though as young as I was, I remember all too well how they even looked at each other. I can only hope I have that 1 day....as I believe all ppl deserve it.

My grandparents did the same thing. It happens, just not to everyone.

What about us couples who are considering not having kids? That really is a choice that no one has any right to chime in on.

Trust me, there are far worse.

Trust me, you are completely misconstruing the figurative intent of my opinion.

Kinda like, "What is worse than losing an arm?". Two arms.

Yeah, she could marry you.

Cause women are much much better looking than men. I don't knwo a single woman who has disagreed with that either. Doesn't mean that they all want to be with women more, but they think they are easier on the eyes.

And sucks to be you easystreet. Maybe you should have treated them better and they wouldn't have screwed you over.

Kyle-657446 wrote "Cause women are much much better looking than men."

Because women simply do not have the same libidinous response to either sex while men clearly experience that quick little swell in genitalia in communication with most women.

"Maybe you should have treated them better and they wouldn't have screwed you over."

Only women believe that all of their failures are due to a man that didn't help them.

Easystreet, that's why there are prenups.

Though I suppose its all her fault right? I bet you are an angel and couldnt have done anything wrong in either relationship...you are just the poor, innocent victim.

Ian,

Because women simply do not have the same libidinous response to either sex while men clearly experience that quick little swell in genitalia in communication with most women.

Actually you're wrong. Maybe you should do some research before saying ridiculous stuff like this. It is proven that straight women are in fact turned on by another beautiful woman. Maybe you just weren't doing something right between the sheets & that's why you think women don't have the libido men do.

Only women believe that all of their failures are due to a man that didn't help them.

This is just more of the same thing you always post. Maybe you're just a @!$%#ty guy....ever think of that? Maybe that's why you can't keep a woman! A real woman doesn't need a man.....a real woman wants a man, a husband, a father for her children. I pay my own bills, make twice what my boyfriend does, OUR house is in MY name (though we purchased it & picked it out together, his credit sucked from a previous divorce), car is in MY name, I pay my own schooling, & even buy most of my boyfriends food & clothing since I make more than he does. It doesn't bother me in the least & we are still equal contributors to the relationship....I just happen to have more $$. Get off your "victim" soapbox & get on with life! I can't imagine how unhappy you must be!

I'm married with kids. Why are unmarried people giving advice on marriage compatibility? It's like taking driving lessons from a someone that has never driven a car.

Does your wife know how you feel about women? I'm sure you have quite the bissful marriage.

I'd take marriage advice from an unmarried person in a long term relationship, before I'd take it from someone who never has anything good to say about women....especially someone who claims to be married to a woman! Last time I checked, every single person who gets married by a priest is subjected to marriage advice & counseling....though I've often wondered why we gotta listen to a man who isn't married & isn't allowed to have sex. Hmmm.

Futhermore, I really hope for the sake of your children, you aren't teaching your sons to hate women & aren't teaching your daughters it's ok to be hated by men.

hardworkinwoman wrote "man who isn't married & isn't allowed to have sex."

The Protestant Reformation included the provision for marriage among priests. Direct your complaints to the Catholic Church.

Men have been reading the women's perennial b*tchfest on TV, the self-help book industry, and every other medium known, and your posts are no different. I write for the men.

You can write for men, without disregarding women. I don't think the average men thinks, let alone speaks as badly of women as I've seen in many of your posts. You cannot compare yourself to me in our postings. You'll never find me bad mouthing men. I've known great ones & I've known @!$%#ty ones....doesn't mean I think badly of all men, just because of the @!$%#ty ones though. That's how you come across....as a woman hater. I get it, kind of. My mom went through a man hater stage after her & my dad's nasty divorce, but I didn't agree with her man hating ways. Some ppl just aren't meant to be together, it's as simple as that. We all get pissed off at the opposite sex....but I can't help but love them too!

I don't really care about the Catholic Churches rules either, I was trying to make a point as to the statement you made. I don't pretend I know everything about everything, but I also know that I do have a lot of knowledge & experience with many things, regardless of whether I'm married or not.

This is a barrier to permanent relationships, although there will not be a single book from the female self-help industry that will mention that. It's scary enough for a man to move in with a woman and be subjected to the specificity of her ways. It's a complete nightmare when she owns (well, rents from the bank) the place and treats him as a permanent subject in her queendom.

Gotta be careful who you share the checkbook with!

We've lived together for two years and are now planning a wedding. I wouldn't have said "yes" without knowing what I was getting into. People have the right to their own believes. But I only know of one instance in my entire friend circle where it didn't end in marriage. I know of five marriages done the old fashioned way that ended very badly. Just how the world looks from where I stand.

The religious principles are based on practical experience. Do you really have to know someone's habits before you marry them?

"But I only know of one instance in my entire friend circle where it didn't end in marriage. I know of five marriages done the old fashioned way that ended very badly."

You probably can list the names of 2000 people that you know. If you take a poll among the generation of your parents, you will have better data on marriage longetivity.

In my circle of friends, living together led to late marriages and deferred or failed attempts to produce only one child.

In my circle of friends I know those that haven't lived together first that are still going strong, those that haven't lived together first that got divorced, those that lived together first then got married still ended up divorced and of those that lived together that got married and are still going strong. It matters for some and not for others. Same with long distance relationships that work out for some and not for others. Living with someone before marriage is not for me but I see why others choose that option.

Ian, I understand what you are saying but I believe you are in for a complete surprise if you don't live with someone before marriage than if you do - and why put yourself through a nasty divorce if its not necessary. Living with someone can let you know just how badly you want this person in your life. After all, not everyone is right for each other. I lived with my ex for 4 years (together for 8) before I met my husband. I am so glad that we never got married because I may not have met my husband who I am completely happy with (even with the quirky things he does). My husband and I lived together for 2 years before taking the plunge. As all people who are married know...not everyday is roses and sunshine but we tend to want more days of the good then the bad so why not find out early what you are signing up for? In short, I did not become a divorce rate statistic because I lived with my ex.

"Marriage" is western cultures is more a legal agreement then any form of spiritual commitment. Its just the way we went about doing things that made it so. Because of that any man would be a complete and utter *fool* not to get a feel for how a women acts during her "off time" (time she's not primed for a date / meeting) before marrying her. You really don't know someone until you've spent a few months to a year or more around them 24/7.

In marriage its the little things that eventually destroy the marriage. The big things (cheating / financial matters / unresolved differences) all become unbearable because the little things make daily life a nightmare. Stuff like bathroom habits, personal hygiene, food preferences, social obligations. As a man, I could not say I truly loved a women unless I've seen her get up in the morning with dragon breath, plod around the apartment in sweatpants and flip flops and complain about some random article of clothing.

There is a saying, you live someone for their good points, and you love them for their bad points. How can you possibly find someone to share your life with if you are not fully aware / comfortable with their bad points?

H=Johnson,

The Catholic Church does not approve of you living in sin and using birth control. Pope Benedick might use you as a bad example. Living in sin an using birth control are not great sins are far as the Catholic Church is concerned! Repent!

jeklo wrote "In short, I did not become a divorce rate statistic because I lived with my ex."

The rate of living together for a few years has increased over the last forty years. Has the divorce rate plummeted? While some may be more comfortable knowing how their partner cleans up their hairs from the shower, living together does even being to simulate financial combination/obligation and children.

Actually, many ppl who live together do share finances & have children. Though, like myself, there are many of us who don't share accounts but still share financial responsibility & don't have children also. Either way, let's not assume everyone is the same. There are many compatibility reasons ppl cannot/will not stay together forever & many of those things you don't get to see unless you live with a person & are together more than just date nights or on the wknds.

It really just depends on what each person is comfortable with. I know many married couples who don't even share bank accounts & split the bills amongst each other.

hardworkingwoman wrote "many of those things you don't get to see unless you live with a person & are together more than just date nights or on the wknds."

Generations before us were able to adapt and rise above these trivialities. We have yet to see proof that living together reduces divorce rates.

You describe what is functionally the relationship part of marriage. Why not formalize? Would it change your behavior if you knew that you couldn't jet with 30 days notice? Most defininitely.

theotherguy1234 wrote "How can you possibly find someone to share your life with if you are not fully aware / comfortable with their bad points?"

Living together for a few years gives you enough situational experience to learn if the mount the toilet paper with the leading sheet up or down. You only really know a person when times are tough, such as during the early years of childhood. Why do you think the average American marriage lasts only six years?

Generations before us were able to adapt and rise above these trivialities.

Very true! But look how different the world is now. Ppl rarely work 40hr weeks anymore, both ppl need to work, it's much less often mothers can stay home with children, more women attend college now, I would also say that cheating is much more prevalent in today's society also. There are many contributing factors to why the dynamics of relationships have changed. It wasn't that long ago that divorce was kept a secret & looked down upon. Not many ppl could actually say they knew of any divorced ppl. But now with divorce rates at 51%....who doesn't know a ton of divorcee's? All these things & more have contributed to major relationship changes.

I'm not scared of marriage....not in the least bit. I'm excited for the day I get married & have children. I'm currently in a 4yr relationship....that will soon be ending. I'm glad we lived together & lived through things together before getting married. He's not the one for me forever. I look at forever, I do. I want to make sure I find the person I can live with forever. I don't wanna get divorced, ever! My behaviors would absolutely not change. Why act a different way then you're gonna act forever? I want someone to marry me for who I am....not for who my 'representative' is.

hardworkingwoman wrote "I would also say that cheating is much more prevalent in today's society also."

It certainly seems less tolerated by women and more tolerated by men. To this day, family courts will assign child support payments to fathers that are verified not to be the biological fathers of their unmarried girlfriend's children.

hardworkingwoman wrote "My behaviors would absolutely not change. Why act a different way then you're gonna act forever?"

You'll have to resolve this yourself. In the four year, live-in relationship you mentioned as coming to an end, was there a difference between your behavior at the beginning and end? Every married couple states that they will not divorce, yet half do after only several years.

I'd like to believe in a backlash against the divorce plague, but it seems that the only changes are increasing expectations of marital bliss. That in turns perpetuates the divorce culture. My take is that it is fueled by the women's self-help publishing industry which publishes volumes and volumes of books on precisely how to choose a man and change his behavior. For unknown reasons, self-modification is unpopular.

The rate of living together for a few years has increased over the last forty years. Has the divorce rate plummeted?

Actually, the divorce rate has lowered in the past few years. Look it up.

That's my experience to . You have to realize alot of conservative think tanks put alot of effort into making it look bad, though. I've never seen what was so bad about it.

A lot of "conservative think tanks" mistrust the American divorce culture. Statistically, they are spot on with the evidence of very high divorce rates, out-of-wedlock child births and fatherless children, the latter two of which are trends that continue to grow.

Ian,

Why are divorce rates higher in parts of the country that identify with being more religious??

Ok time for some education for some people. There is a reason "conservatives" and religious leaders tend to be older men. Most religions as currently practiced (big difference from what they are in theory vs reality) are systems setup to impose the will of older males onto younger males, namely through the control of the thing most younger males desire the most, sex. By implementing various controls and procedures (rules and rituals) the older males can force the younger males to do as directed and thus gain control over them. These systems discourage independent thought as that would lead to a breakdown of the control system and the rebellion of the younger male against the older males. For this reason older males also seek to control the supply of sex through controlling the younger females. Teach the younger females that they can only have sex with the males the older males deem "worthy" and you can control the supply of sex to the younger males.

Anything that threatens or otherwise alters this system of control is considered "the enemy" of all conservative older males. For them social order must be maintained with the control of that order firmly in their hands. You can view almost anything involved with "religion" in this light and it'll make lots of sense (the reasoning behind the action, not the action itself).

Or government. Look at the volumes of restrictions on behavior we call laws.

There is another reason conservatives tend to be older: natural selection. These are the people that have survived to that age. The leaders of the communist (absent of organized religion) rebellions and socialist governments are also men. As for why they are men, the leaders of every successful civilization are men.

Notanidiotlikeolegunny wrote "Why are divorce rates higher in parts of the country that identify with being more religious??"

Are they? Provide some sources.

Natural selection worked back when life was kill the tiger before it kills you and the entire community worked together to store food before the winter months came. Now aday's the old men who have become the conservative leaders are just the ones who desire power the most and are willing to do everything / anything it takes to acquire that power.

Just think, for every single grey haired "leader" there must of been thousands of other men who vied for that same power. That leader must of stomped and defeated his foes in order to hold onto that power. In modern politics (including religions) this process is nasty and filled with lies and deceit. Its the biggest reason I refuse to adhere or otherwise follow any organized religion, the leaders must by definition be very bad men.

Natural selection is still alive in human populations and culture.

As per the divorce being more common in religious areas - basic government information plus any number of studies done by scientists and sociologists. In a phrase - Google it. You'll everything you're looking for.

I wouldn't say the institution is failing...I just think people are very stupid in how they go about relationships. There is nothing wrong with the instituation itself...there is something wrong with people getting married who shouldn't get married....or at least shouldn't marry the person they did.

We wouldn't have so many divorces if people actually knew what they were getting into and were prepared to work hard for the marriage and meant what they said in their vows. Note: I'm not talking about a situation where there is abuse or infidelity involved...those are some of the real reasons to get a divorce.

Know who you are as a person. If you know who you are you generally wont be changing into someone your partner doesn't like after you get married. I think it's preferable to not get married at least until 24/25 because by then you should have a good idea of who you are and what you want out of life. I'm not saying it can't work if you get married sooner...but I do happen to know two people in their 20's who got married before they were 21 and are now divorced.

Know who you are marrying...talk to each other about all the hard stuff before you get married (money,kids/parenting...etc). Make sure you have the same core values. Don't get married thinking "oh he/she will change eventually"...love who you are marrying the way they are. If you can't, then don't get married until you can.

Get rid of any romanticized notion of marriage you have. Yes, love is great and going through life with one you love is great. But marriage is ultimately two different people (who love and respect each other) in the trenches trying to navigate life together. It's not always going to be pretty, but with communication and compromise I would think most situations can be resolved.

Note: I'm not saying marriage is for everyone or that long-term committed relationships are any less valid...I'm just saying that anyone who expects to live the rest of their life with someone (marriage or not) should think about the above.

buxxy-1659411 wrote "myself included, happy to not be part of what seems to be a failing institution."

The fundamental purpose of marriage is the production of the next generation. It is certainly easier to watch others produce the society that supports you in your old age than to exert the energy and spend the money and time involved in raising children from conception to adulthood.

That's not a fair statement Ian. Do you really want everyone having kids? Don't you see how many kids act today? Not everyone is cut out for being a parent....anyone can have a kid & raise it....doesn't mean they are good parents, or they'll raise productive citizens who will one day positively contribute to our society.

hardworkinwoman wrote "Don't you see how many kids act today?"

The latest crop of children is the largest on American record that are born out of wedlock and spend the least amount of time with their fathers. They were raised with major behavioral expansions on girls and severe, new behavioral restrictions on boys. How does the latest generation, the "Millenials" and younger, all raised on "time-outs" instead of a proper whack on the butt by a heavy fatherly hand, compare with the previous generation?

You read me improperly, but that is no surprise because the masculine voice is rare and thus unrecognized. American family culture is disintegrating. Governments prefer to subsidize out-of-wedlock births and chase after the relatively rare unidentified father for 10% of his income instead of creating policies that encourage fathers to stay with their children.

I don't hate women. I hate the disproportionate and negative influence of unbalanced female culture on today's families. This culture takes advantage of laws that were enacted to protect children against the occasional father abandonment, and now, rewards the average wife with child custody, marital assets and child custody payments (alimony in disguise) such that divorce is an average phenomenon instead of a feared end of the family. Fathers are booted from the family with glee. Unfortunately, men have responded by avoiding marriage as evidenced by the 40% of out-of-wedlock births in 2008 (are 2009 #'s out yet?). Women call this "fear of commitment." Men call this a rational decision as the risk of marital and financial ruin is 50%. Women chase this blissful mental state called love. Men look at their best friend and realize that one of them will be ruined by divorce and having their children stripped from them to be tended to by a string of the mother's boyfriends.

I'm no stranger to a masculine voice, trust me! I need a man who isn't scared of putting me in my place! I had parents who spanked my ass....no doubt about that!

I see your point, though I gotta admit, it's not always that way. I'm my state if a divorced couple has joint custody, the parent who makes more money pays the child support. One of my good friends is paying her ex child support even though she has the kids the majority of the time. Does it more often swing the other way....yes. I've seen many, many divorces within my family, my friends, etc. I watch many men lose half of their stuff all the time. I don't always agree with it. I think it should be 50/50, but how does that happen if a woman doesn't work? Do you think she doesn't deserve 1/2 because she didn't financially contribute 1/2? That's not fair either. Being a stay at home mom is a job, whether it's a financial contribution or not & they do still deserve 1/2.

Truth be told...the relationship I'm ending....I'm paying out the money, not him. He's getting money back from the house we've lived in for the last 1yr, plus anything we jointly purchased that I'll keep minus the joint purchases that he's keeping. I think that's the fair thing to do. Though it is much simpler not dividing bank accounts, pensions, 401k's, or dealing with child support. I do know some women who look at divorce like winning the lottery, but that's really not the norm. I don't know any couple who thinks divorce is easy or fun. Don't you think your generalization is slightly harsh?

hardworkingwoman wrote "I'm paying out the money, not him."

If I'm reading your description correctly, you're refunding money for assets that he paid for that you are keeping. You're not losing money that he didn't give you. Did I read incorrectly?

Please provide stats to back up your claim.

Not to negate your point, but in several of these circumstances divorce is impossible, extremely difficult, or social suicide. Not really something that should be quoted as a reference here.

Many can't get divorced. That does not make for a compatible relationship.

Divorce rates in the U.S. are very high. How are divorce rates in Canada? If they legalize same sex marriage in the U.S. the divorce rate may climb higher.

Yeah, the divorce rate may climb higher ONLY because there's more people who'll be married. Marriage, after all, is the number one reason for divorce.

Legalizing same sex marriage deemphasizes the exclusivity and thus cultural importance of marriage and its function to produce children from resident biological parents.

Optomyst,

No. The abuse that you suffered for most of your life changed your perception of inimate relationships so that you prefer to take things "day by day." It does not make you a bad person except among bible thumpers.

It's good to read that you have a happy companion. Marriage is for producing children. You've done your part. Senior citizen marriage is ridiculous.

Oh yes, we're all childbearing robots just here for the purpose of producing children....now thats scary. Yes comrad - I will run right out and marry somebody for the sake of producing children...it is my duty...ha. Where the heck are you from??? You are a very very scary person.

You don't need to be married if you have no intention of having children.

Optomyst,

I think that she would have. They had so much in common and the same perceived enemies that were out to get both of them. Bubba's heart condition has slowed him down in the amorous dept, and her position as Sec. of State does not provide a lot of time or available physical or mental energy for dallying.

They are now an "old married couple."

rattus......And it is my opinion she would have been elected President had she shown the strength of character that Jennie Sanford showed. Many people I know (particularly women) said they would have voted for her had her character won out over her need to get ahead.

Bubba's heart condition has only appeared in recent years.............and for the kind of "non-sex" he "didn't have" with Monica Lewinsky, hardly a strain.

Americans are hardly in a position to be giving advice on successful marriage. Though, they are highly qualified to give advice on divorces. American marriage is a great example of how leaving the choice of marriage partner to an individual leads to unstable unions.

Well, speaking as one who did not have sex before marriage--it was not for religious reasons--I was sexually molested (but not penetrated)as a 6 1/2 year old and was scared to death of guys for a LONG time...Having said that, as a Christian, I am very glad now that I waited to have sex till I was married--will be married 19 years this June and after 19 years and four children, marriage to me is terrific. I would not want to ever divorce my husband, and he feels the same about me, since we're still very happily married.

Been there, done that, Carolyn. Never again.

Actually, the bible clearly states that sex IS marriage. How else do two join together and 'become one flesh'. Or, why would Jesus say that eunichs would be unable to 'marry'. Clearly he meant SEX. They are equivalent words. Everyone you've had sex with, you've been married to. Therefore, one cannot have pre-marital sex. That's like saying you had sex before you had sex.

I love the warped interpretations that people come up with based off the bible. They are quite entertaining at times...thanks for the chuckle Raven. LOL