It has not taken long for communities to feel the downstream effects of a nationwide
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comWith Medicaid cuts, docs and patients drop out
Seeded on Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:33 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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Here's where the B.S. comes into play. Only $29.42 for a office visit. Well that visit was for 10 minutes. Which translates to approximately $180 per hour or an annual salary of 360k for the same education as a college professor. Give me a break!
Then you have to pay for malpractice insurance, rent for the office space, pay for your staff of nurses to file all of the many forms that medicare requires. The doctor will be broke before he can even build a practice let alone make any money that way.
No problem Obama just will AMEND Obamacare to FORCE doctors to treat needy patients for NOTHING.
That is if we let him jam through Obamacare in the first place.
___________________________________________________________________________
"From each according to his ability to each according to his needs."
-- Communist (Obama) Manifesto
College professors have zero liability. If your college professor tells you the wrong date the declaration of independence, do you win an absurd lawsuit because you got a C instead of a B on that final. No. Didnt think so. Not to mention, them minimum medical education takes 14-15 years to be fully certified. 4 years of college, 3 if youre smart, 4 more of med school and at least 3 years of residency where all you do is serve patients who are on Medicaid and Medicare. Then, after all that hard work, and say you are now an Obstetrician, you deliver a child who has some sort abnormalities mentally and physically and you get sued by the mom that thought it would be ok to have a few glasses of wine while she was pregnant and to avoid the legal process you settle out of court for 250,000 at least. Where is the BS in that. Bottom line, if Americans weren't as fat as they were then they wouldn't need doctors and healthcare would be a lot less for everybody.
Give me a break. Think a little bit, how about that? The building costs money. The utilities cost money.
Everyone working there gets a salary...and they didn't skip their math and science classes, in highschool or college, to take it easy. They don't get minimum wage, and they shouldn't!
The people suing doctors? All that money comes from the other patients. Of course.
Everyone who doesn't pay their bills? Government payments that don't cover the actual cost? All that comes out of the other patients' bills.
The salary of the people who have to work so hard to collect money from insurance agencies and individuals who don't pay right away? Who have to be called over and over and forms filed again and again so someone has to be paid to get that money...all covered by the other patient's bills. Collection agencies cuts when the office finally hands them the unpaid accounts? All paid by other patients' bills.
Sorry, complaining about primary care doctors' wages doesn't cut it. You stop paying, they switch to another field. Lets see how that helps out the shortage we already have of primary care doctors.
You can't make them be doctors. Once they quit, they won't come back.
The irony is that we have an entire class of people who dropped out of school, had kids they couldn't afford, and likely don't even work for much, if any of what they get. However, they expect others who sacrificed and studied for years, who put in staggering hours into their profession, while assuming massive debt -- well those people should simply provide free service or lose money for the priveledge of serving the freeloaders in our society.
We are now a welfare nation and if Obamacare passes, our best physicians will flock to other countries where they can escape the iron fist of oppression that comes with communism.
If they switch to another field, let it be insurance sales.
After your above opinion, I take it you would like another Government run Insurance Program. Obama-care . Probably would pay out like Med- Care,Caid. And I don't see how anyone can live on 1-2 million a year. I feel for them.
I am a family practice physician who has accepted Medicaid patients. My overhead (not counting malpractice) is almost 60% of gross revenue. Add to that malpractice premium of $8 per patient visit ($32K divided by 4000 patients annually; never had a lawsuit, but Cook County, IL is one of the most litiginous counties in the country). Then figure in a 50% no-call no-show rate for Medicaid patients. Then figure in the time spent documenting patient visits, red tape, phone calls, 24 hour on-call coverage (even if split with partners, it works out to an 80 hour work week) with after-hours pages for an occasional emergency mixed in with a majority of calls from patients who don't have the courtesy of calling during regular office hours, countless forms to fill out - all of which are not reimbursed. A lot more time and effort goes into that 10 minute visit than you think (and in my office it is 15 min for routine visit and 30 min for physicals and complex patients). Then subtract taxes and I take home $60K per year - and that is with other patients with higher-paying insurance plans than Medicare and Medicaid. Vacation time is limited due to opportunity cost and the several hours of paperwork that piles up per day whether I'm there or not and this cannot be done by other docs (not their patients). Career satisfaction is derived only from helping people. This is what working my ass off in high school to earn valedictorian + 1 year of college credits got me. Most patients just don't understand.
I will say that we do need health care reform, but that neither party (or even a compromise plan) has proposed solutions that would actually work. Not that I support it, but single payer would help reduce overhead costs, since less staff would be needed for referrals and other paperwork. Tort reform would reduce excess test ordering (you don't get sued for ordering a test, but you do get sued if you miss any diagnosis the test could have detected even if the yield is low).
To Skohl and GlobalScaring
You make it sound like a class issue. Or a level of education issue. People of all class are loosing jobs. All pay ranges are affected. You assume your work or level gains a preference in life. You couldn't do what you do if it wasn't for others. We all need each other!!! With out lights, cars, meds,water, food ect. how would do? And if you went to a state college, the tax payers helped pay your way in college too. Tax dollars at work
The only thig I agree with you is we should be affraid of Obamma-care.
Many here should be ashamed to call your selves Americans, I guess it's all for one and all for me, just makes me wonder what morals you people in stow into your children, talking about people should be bared from having children, better look into the mirror fisrt, are you the kinds of people we want walking the earth?
FYI Medicaid is for children. Medicare is for adults. sometimes a child will have both but it is usually a special case. Whomever wrote this article has mixed them up. Medicaid is funded federally Medicare is funded through state
Sorry Heather- you have it mixed up- Medicare is for the elderly and is a tax on income paid directly to a trust, it is never needs tested. Medicaid is a joint fed state program for adults and children based on need.
The post about a 30 dollar reimbursement being for ten minutes shows a high degree of ignorance- an OB appt takes at least 30 minutes, then there is all the paperwork and you don't run people through like cattle.
Face it- I have been saying all the things in this NYT article for months and no one believes me- there will not be doctors willing to lose money to take care of you. We didn't go to med school because we are dumb.
After reading a lot of these response I havent found one mention of the added strain illegal immigrants use of the US medical system has created. It would not solve the problem but the billions of $$s used might help. The medical provision issue is one that is very complex and has no simple solution. Proper medical attention is always of the utmost importance to each individual giving and receiving it. Nobody wants to bear the burden of everybody else because it results in taking away from one to give another which is blasphemy in a capitalistic system. Each politician that has tried to tackle this problem has not been able to resolve anything. Nobody here either has been able to offer a reasonable or sustainable solution for this problem. This issue will probably never go away with our current economic structure and I dont pretend to know the answer.
It is stunning to me that so many are so uninformed.
So to recap, we have this government run healthcare program, Medicaid, which reimburses too little per patient, per visit, etc... so more and more Doctors are refusing to waste their time on money-losing patients - and they are money-losing because they have government insurance that will not pay but a tiny % of the actual bill.
How can anyone miss this clear message - Government run healthcare is a train-wreck - not will be, might be, assume the worst, but IS a train-wreck.
How about the sharp-witted Democrats explain exactly how they will fix Medicaid and Medicare before they put a finger on the healthcare that is actually paying for those fortunate enough to have good insurance.
Oh, and the other thing that seems to be missed is the fact that most of us with traditional healthcare pay higher costs because we have to cover the lack of payments from the government covered patients. Does anyone fail to understand that Government is the CAUSE of much of our huge increases as they have to pay for all of this somehow - as NU Wildcat Fan so clearly stated.
Paul F- you rock- frp!!!
I guess Heather doesn't own property or pay taxes, or she would have seen that little Medicare line item on her pay stub, and would have known her property taxes go to help fund Medicaid.
Lower rates being paid by Medicare and Medicaid is killing small practices and hospitals. As of this year, the facility I work for will lose almost a million dollars due to cuts in those programs. That is a million dollars that will not be put back into the local economy, will not be used for debt forgiveness, and will not be used to hire more staff, increase electronic medical records, or buy new equipment.
Of course it will the facilities fault when they have to reduce services, cut staff, and then get out of the govt programs, even though it may be the only way to survive at all.
It will be an entitlement, and that is a narcotic to people who have been made to accept that they can't get this for themselves. It is amazing to be that so many people have tacitly accepted the idea that they cannot and they must let the government when the slogan was we can.
It sounds as if medicaid to another 15 million will mean nothing if there will be no one to treat them. Somehow I feel the vote in the House and Senate will be an empty offering. If they don't address the legal issue, waste and fraud, it will help nothing. Just increase cost and the waste connected with government will escalate.
Just another sign of ignorance. Unfortunately, there's too many people who think doctors really make that much money. In reality, very few doctors make that much. I suggest you read NU Wildcat Fan's post just under yours so you can get a better grasp of what it is really like.
If doctors made that much, especially primary care physicians, there would be a SURPLUS of doctors. Seriously, it's basic supply vs demand... something most people like yourself and sadly the politicians that represent you fail miserably to understand.
Cynic and some of the other posters are really clueless when it comes to the cost of being a physician. Firstly, it's not "the same time in school as a college professor". A Ph.D. can be earned in three years post college. Even if it were 8 years that still doesn't compare to the 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3-5 yrs residency plus other specialized training. In addition, most grad students in Ph.D. programs go to school for free on teaching fellowships while the average physician graduates with a quarter million in debt and starts work in their mid thirties. The 360K gross Cynic waxed about is nothing. Imagine office overhead of 50K before support staff salaries. Then add just one nurse and a lab tech. (100K easily) plus another 50K malpractice insurance. That leaves 160K a year (pre-tax) to pay back loans and actually live on. If you started teaching high school chemistry for 80 grand at the age of 22, you would have already earned 1.2 million dollars at the same age the physician was just starting to pay back his 250K in loans. My personal solution? Twenty five years ago I stopped accepting BOTH insurance and Medicare patients. All patients pay out of pocket and I can make a living without going broke and living my days overworked and full of resentment.
Medicaid payments in the suburban area of Chicago are about 25 cents on the dollar billed. That's too low. But this is NOT an Obama problem. Not by a long shot. Those payment structures have been in place for DECADES. Now, the Republicans had the Congress from 1994 to 2006. They didn't do one damm thing except pass a basically unfunded Medicare addendum for prescription drugs.
My problem with this whole health care debate is that Republicans set out to take down Obama no matter what - and the American people are in the crosshairs. The only reason the current SENATE bill is such a mess is that Obama and Democratic members tried to work with Republicans who simply could not, would not, be pleased.
The Senate bill sucks eggs IMHO, but I'll do anything in my power to see to it that the Republicans don't win this one. Had they been HONEST about their agendas and HONEST in helping to put together a decent bill, this country would not be so divided. That is specifically the Republicans' fault. I will not forget that in future elections. And I will be politically active in campaigns.
This country needs a public option. Even with House changes to the Senate bill - if it passes - millions of Americans will be left uninsured. Right now, someone with a pre-existing condition will be able to go to an exchange immediately - this year. BUT that person has to have a job so they can afford to pay their share of premium. The government will pay the other part, as has been discussed in the past, and information for which can be found at Kaiser's website. BUT WITHOUT A JOB, THAT PERSON REMAINS UNINSURED. THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO WON'T BE COVERED, NOT EVEN WITH MEDICAID. We have a 9/7% unemployment rate and the UNDERemployment rate is more than twice that. According to BLS this month, 14.9 million Americans are out of work. How many millions of them have pre-existing and won't be able to participate in whatever the new structure is?
Rule for Medicaid - a person 19-64 has to have a minor child in the house and/or have a disability (usually recognized by SSA) or that person DOES NOT GET Medicaid. The, as NU above points out, the reimbursements to doctors is, frankly, insulting.
But federal employees, and Congressmen sure get their coverage. Their payroll, before all THEIR insurance subsidies, is nearly $100 million a year. For 535 people alone.
This country is ranked well below most other developed countries in health care. Our infant mortality rates are only better than Turkey's and Mexico's. That's ridiculous. We spend $7,290 per person on health care. The OECD average is $2,964. Year 2007. www.oecd.org/health/healthdata www.oecd.org/us
With statistics and records like that, the U.S. does not have anything to criticize other countries on when it comes to health care. Nothing.
We paid $775 BILLION to insurance companies in 2007 - representing 5.6% of our entire GDP. Our health care cost 16% of GDP ($2.21 Trillion). We pay the most per person and people still cannot get heath care. Insurance premiums have increased over 100% in the last decade and Anthem BC/BS just tried a money/power grab with increases of 24-39% in California alone. California has 12% of the U.S. population, so that's one hell of a premium grab. Insurance companies are protected by anti-trust laws passed in 1945 - WHY?
We need health care for every American, better health care outcomes, and CHEAPER COSTS. Eliminate insurance companies, which operate at 30% administration cost, and we save over $232 billion right off the bat.
What the Republicans are doing is unconscionable. It has to stop. Insurance companies must be competitive. People are dying at a rate of 45,000/year JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. That's absurd.
does the kool aide at least taste good. Nobody dies because of health insurance you are quoting a complete supposition. There was never any attempt to appease republicans- they couldn't get DEMOCRATS to sign on to this because the medicaid expansion will raise state taxes. The negotiations with repubs were "I won"
And medicaid rules are set by each state- CA is very liberal, TX isn't too bad.
Apply your kool-aid where the sun don't shine. Might do you some good.
Here are links to that report that you can't seem to believe is real. Pick one. Read it.
http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf
TOP LINK IS REPORT, SECOND LINK IS THE STATE-BY-STATE DATA RUN-DOWN:
http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/short/99/12/2289
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/714353
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/hinsure.htm
Denial: indicator that someone can't understand a concept.
i read the original NEJM- and it is all based on supposition and conjecture. For one moment step back and accept what you are saying. 45,000 people are dying when they could have been saved and no law firm has jumped on that? Really the kool aide is really strong to believe that. I know several very good lawyers who would take that case- but it does not exist.
Part of the problem is unecessarily high costs of treatment of diseases like cancer.
For some startling information on the treatment of cancer, go to Google Video and watch:
"Run From The Cure - The Rick Simpson Story".
You will be completely astounded.
Cynic
If president Pelosi and BO BO, push this wreck the us reform bill through I fear for their well being, people are really, really, really MAD about what these clowns are doing with this, DO they even have a Conscioust, or a heart, how can they sleep at night.
I'm not going to leave this alone or tolerate anymore misinformation about this study. Below is a synopsis on methodology. Note: This study was a do-over of a 1993 study - as in, long before this health care debate came up - wherein there existed a 25% higher risk of death when the patient had no insurance compared to those who had insurance. 1993. And another thing, this current study eliminated populations at Medicare age - just because they were more likely to die due to age. So THIS study is looking at the adult working population, you know, the people who are supposed to be able to afford health insurance because they are employed.
I am posting it because I am sick to death of the stupid "kool-aid" reference - especially from those who are so critical of anyone who drinks sweetened drinks, etc. (And no I don't. Kool-aid is c.r.a.p.) The hypocrisy embedded in the health care reform is simply breathtaking. Again, denial is simply an admission that the concept is beyond the understanding of the one in denial.
I defy any doctor to pull that off.. Are you kidding me... ?
What do you think, this is a assembly line...?
If more doctors would start taking cash only, we'd see market forces begin to be re-established in the medical industry. Save insurance for catastrophic emergencies, but pay out of pocket for routine visits and minor medical treatments.
What? Actually pay cash for something? Isn't health care a RIGHT? Don't the doctors HAVE to see me?
Actually there are high deductible plans which, when coupled with Health Savings Accounts, do exactly what you suggest. Trouble is most people want full coverage with no deductible for about no coat. Welcome to never never land.
I agree Lee.
Lee,
Doctors have a serious problem taking cash. Their problem is that their insurance contracts (and Medicaid/Medicare, too, I think) pay them a percentage of the LOWEST charge they make to the uninsured public. So, if a doctor lowers his price because a customer pays cash, he has to lower it again for EVERYONE else. Go figure.
Actually no, the rates are negotiated from the market- and the guv sets very low reimbursement. There are a number of folks going concierge- all cash, and you pay to be in the practice. People are dropping their hospital privileges because then they are not required to have med mal insurance.
Lee, it was this way once. In my dad's day the physician DID take cash.But then it was DR and pt. ONLY in the relationship: no managed case manager or fiscal intermediary. There were pts my dad (RIP) charged the 'going rate' and some he charged a pittance. If he chose, a colleague would be given a professional courtesy and he always did clinic patient cases on a rotating basis as a choice through the university affiliation. The difference? HE was in CHARGE, made his own choices and no insurance goon told him what he could or could not do. The Hospital treated him well because he brought in the $$$$. This was not a perfect arrangement and the public clamored for more involvement and control. Many options were on the table and different approaches were used. As I followed him into the practice he began seeing the changes from total medical freedom to the uses of DRG in hospital based surgical practices. This changed things on the business side of inpatient care and surgery itself. It was during THIS era when the AMA gained power as a lobby and 'spoke' for all physicians. Here we are at present and few are content with the status quo. Specialists now and I include myself, do have better circumstances because of less interference from fiscal intermediaries and third party payors but make no mistake - we DO have to deal with them. The new generation of doctors are facing even more change and I am impressed by many of them. THEY have been trained and educated within this dynamic change of healthcare and I will look with great interest on how their generation bridges the void. My fear is that in a backlash, healthcare availability will indeed become a world of pay as you go and no more 'charity' care as in Medicaid and sliding scale. This story shows the failure within medicaid. it's now more unpopular than ever and is more expensive to administer than it's worth. MANY providers won't touch it due to the inherent flaws that this article details. Often the medicaid patients have a very peculiar entitlement disposition which makes it clear they don't understand it. It's not 'insurance'. Insurance is what you purchase. Medicaid is what you are GIVEN by virtue of what you DON't have and often this has been intentional. i.e intentional pregancy when unemployed, unmarried and no prospect of every achieveing this minimal status of productive citizen. But nonethess, as I prepare to retire from active medicine I hope that all decisions are made in the sane light of day without utopian ideals. It anything has been proven via the failure of Medicaid and other entitlement programs it is this: NOTHING is valued if it is 'free'. More importantly - No one will choose medicine/surgery/elite specialties for careers which take two decades of your life and vast debt owed upon independent practice for the same wages as the toll collector. This has been proven by the failure of communism - take away the rewards in society and you also take away the motives. That is the human condition and there is no way around it. Maybe when the entire health care encounter can be automated and undertaken by robotic programs who are foolproof and charge no fees? But then there WILL be fees for the programmers, NO? I don't envy those tasked with figuring this out but I wish it WAS as SIMPLE as in my dad's day when HE was the boss. Those days are gone forever.
Paul F on 1.13- you are exactly right. Even though they try, heavy-handed federal governments can't overcome the natural laws of economics, and their interference always makes things worse.
Law 1- exempt employee health insurance from taxes. Result- healthcare is "free" to users. Prices grow exponentially.
Law 2 - restrict hospitals from building & buying expensive equipment (CON laws) Result- no market competition and prices escalate.
Law 3 - establish Medicaid for the poor & pay providers less than cost of care. Result- unquenchable demand becomes biggest part of state budgets; states face bankruptcy; Care is restricted since since patients can't find a physician who will serve them.
Law 4 - Medicare for all Americans over age 65- Result- federal government raids funds to spend elsewhere just as huge wave of aging baby boomers needs care. Insolvency date moves earlier due to unemployment.
Law 5? - Health reform proposed to charge premiums to all Americans now required to purchase insurance. Increases taxes to every provider in the health care supply chain in order to postpone government-created Medicare insolvency. Includes incentives for employers to drop commercial insurance. Government uses IRS tax code & army of auditors to enforce compliance. New "voluntary" entitlement program created for long-term care. Potential result: Businesses drop coverage; citizens forced into government insurance exchanges; government must restrict costs through coverage restrictions on drugs & procedures, annual budget ceilings; eligibility limitations, long waits, etc. Physicians retire early. Care quality and access diminished.
excellent, clear and right on- frp!
Here are the TRUE facts concerning the ENTITLEMENT mentality........
USA average incomes May 2008;
OCCUPATIONS - Average Income Year - Average per Hour
All Occupations - $42,270 Year - $20.32 Hour
Surgeons - $206,770 Year - $99.41 Hour
Internists General - $176,740 Year - $84.97 Hour
General Practitioners - $161,490 Year - $77.64 Hour
Dentists General - $154,270 Year - $91.55 Hour
Psychologists - $90,460 Year - $43.49 Hour
Health Manager - $88,750 Year - $42.67 Hour
Medical Assistants - $29,060 Year - $13.97 Hour
see www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat
The Doctors not only demand to be paid for their training at rates above most other professionals, but pay their assistants almost nothing.......
We will not address their refusal to accept responsibility for their mistakes and the inability to hold them legally accountable. Unless they cut the wrong leg or arm off, which still happens with regularity........
facts are pretty accurate- but an MA is a high school grad- if you hate doctors stay home and don't bother us- but you can't make us slaves cuz you flunked out
What is wrong the true facts biting you in the A$$????????
I'll be glad to put my GPA after eight years of college up against yours...... Or my GCT.....
I'll still go to Thailand where the Dentist charge $30.00 a hour and I can get a complete physical for $160.00 USD. And that included; X-rays, ultra-sound, blood work, needed vacanees, and a consultation....... The average Thai only has to pay $1.00-USD for a doctors visit....
I sorry you were not smart enough to have seen what has been evolving for the last 50+years in the medical/government entitlement arena........
I doubt that very much- and BTW you can't sue them if they screw it up- look at all the people on the dateline and 60 minutes specials- India is probably a better deaL- most of the docs are trained in America.
You are right concerning you can not sue the average Doctor in Thailand because they are working for the Thai Government. Just like the US Military Doctors. You have to sue the Government and that does happen in Thailand. Though the Thai Doctors serving only the foreign patients can be held liable.
Doctors should be paid for their services just like other professionals. They should also be held ACCOUNTABLE for their mistakes, just like other professionals.
In the USA Doctors can not be sued or be held accountable because;
It is a common mistake.
It was caused by a side-effect of the medication, they had prescribed.
Another Doctor will not testify against them.
Or a Lawyer will not bring suit, because it is not financially viable......
Just remember your oath, "Primum non nocere" - (First, do no harm). You will be held accountable and hiding behind HIPAA will only just delay the consequences......
And I base my observations on actual experiences, not the TV..............
I am just not sure why the vitriol. I agree- if a mistake is made there is accountability- but everything you said can happen too. We do not work on Chevys, every single person is a unique amalgam of cells- organs and systems and they do not always do the same thing- as we like to say the patients do not read the books.
Just remember- what you say is true, but the other side is true too, there are many frivolous lawsuits- I see it every day- know why? Malpractice insurance. If they could only go after us for what we are actually worth, it would NEVER ( almost) be financialy viable.
Even if you have insurance you pay a deductible and mine is 250 a year. They only pay after you satisfy the deductible. This is the fallacy with the opposition to the HC reform bill which makes most of the opposition mute. You pay for those 30 million or 40 million people on Medicaid because they have no insurance with you taxes now.
I would agree we should pay for office visits if it is not for serious circumstances but how do you choose what is serious? We did not have these problems before the Insurance companies were taken over by people who turned them into cash cows to line their pockets with. Why do you think they are fighting the bill so hard. They now have carte blanche to swindle you any way they choose and they do not want to give that right up.
Doctorsteph
I will give you two examples;
A 72-year old woman had bypass heart surgery in 1992. The anesthesiologist charged $30,000+ more that what was allowed by her insurance company. When the Doctor found it was a private insurance company, he lowered the charges by $10,000. When the 89-year old husband questioned the charges. The Doctor stated, "I attended extra schools and if I had not received this extra training, your wife would have died. How much is your wife's LIFE worth to you?" And he was not the person preforming the surgery........ The woman was a former RN... Would you consider this ethical????
A 37-year old woman is suffering from Anxiety attacks, diagnosed by her RNP and verified by numerous test. She passes out after a appointment with the RNP and is taken to a ED, where the Doctor prescribes; Ativan, Zofan, and Vicodin, after taking this medication for 5 days the patient tries to commit suicide. The Doctor refused to contact the RNP or review the two CT scans , citing HIPAA....... No prior history of any medical, mental, or drug/alcohol problems and no family history..... The Anxiety attacks had been attributed to being homesick and she spoke little English....... The psychotic event had been triggered by OVER-MEDICATION, according to two Psychologists... and resulted her being commited for 29 days in a mental health care hospital..... Would you consider this a 'Frivolous Law Suit'??????
You are right patients are not a chevy. Chevy's change models every year and now have numerous computers and electronics. And the mechanics are held accountable for ANY oversight or misdiagnosis, which they have to correct, for FREE.........
AC -
That Medical Assistant with a high school education, would you be willing to let him/her do a triple bypass on you?
I spend 35k a year on malpractice insurance. If I was unable to be sued, great, lower my pay by 35k a year. I am all for it.
Just as in everything, there are bad - dishonest doctors. There are also bad - dishonest bankers, bad - dishonest police, etc.
Don't forget, insurance companies are out to make a profit. They don't make money by paying. If insurance companies were not for profit, we wouldn't be seeing these 30% premium increases as it seems like they do every year.
John,
The medical assistant is not the one making the final diagnosis. But they and the RN's are doing the routine work that is beneath the Doctor...... Your bedside manner and empathy has suffered because of your time/income restraints.......
Blue Cross in NC made 3.1% profit last year, XOM made over 5% and DcDonalds made over 20% profit..... So who is ripping off the consumer??????
The majority of the insurance increases are due to the health-insurance mandates that the states keep adding on....... Not counting the EXTRA & Duplicate medical test that Doctors are preforming to cover their A$$......
IMO - The USA needs to standardize health insurance policies and Malpractice liabilities across state lines... Maybe review boards for low end medical error/problems would reduce un-needed legal/Lawyer procedures...
Something needs to be done about the escalating cost and government regulations. IMO - The bill currently being pushed through is only going to drive-up cost and decrease Doctor availability..... I would not want to be a Doctor or chronically ill patient that is facing this regulatory nightmare....
Good Luck to all of you Doctors......
Why do people have such a problem with Drs making a decent living? It is staggering. Apparently it's great when celebrities make millions per year for dropping out of high school and singing on American Idol, but highly intelligent people who have sacrificed for decades, and have huge loans to repay are supposed to ignore economic reality in the name of 'helping people'. And are the people making those claims giving away their own income to charity?
And would those be the same folks who would scream out against a $40,000 tab for a world class neurosurgen to save their life, while in their driveway sits $50,000 in automobiles?
Well if Obamacare passes we won't have to worry about that anymore. But not because the cost will be 'free', but because we will no longer have world class specialists like neurosurgens here. Just look at how few neurosurgens are left in the UKs NHS. Or the fact that the NHS has more 'administrators' in it now to direct the care that people can receive, than they have healthcare professionals to provide it.
You know, you cite 2 examples in the face of millions of patients every year. I do not know when you were told anesthesia got 30k for a bypass- but it would be a LONG time ago- anesthesia now makes about 18 dollars per unit ( 15 minutes) so unless the bypass lasted several days your information is either very old, or incorrect. As for HIPPA, that was just wrong and the doctor either did not know- and needs education about HIPPA( there are waaaay too many misconceptions and rumours about HIPPA) or he was dodging.
In any event I would encourage you to report both instances because both of the doctors are at best inept in the vignets you present, at worst incompetent and I do not want to be judged in that company. Please make it very public and invite the media- please!!!!
Yes Blue cross made 3.1% profit last year. But don't forget all the perks they pay out to employees, CEO and executive bonuses, dividends to shareholders, etc etc.............all lower there profit %.
Profit % is meaningless to be quite honest. What was the Profit amount in dollars for 2009? You don't pay shareholders based on %. Bonuses aren't calculated based on the profit % either.
Oil companies make extremely low profit % too, but last year they were making record amounts for any company in history, around 30 billion net profit a quarter.
Great points about the malpractice though.
Doctorsteph,
The 72-year old woman was my mother and it was 1991, when I was fighting in 'Desert Storm.' She did not inform me of the operation until I had returned to the USA..... Her decision and my father informed me what the Doctor did after she had died, 5 years later... After I had sat with her through months of cancer treatments that were required because the split sternum had become cancerous.....
I do not know about the thousands of other medical treatments. I just know about the ones that have effected my immediate family..... Daughter - anaphylatic shock and almost died, because she was prescribed medication she was allergic to....... My wife was the 37-year old female........ Personally I avoid ALL doctors and take no medications.... They only see me when I need a Visa medical sign-off.......
The local Lawyers will not touch the case and the local paper will not publish a 'Letter to the Editor' because the Hospital and their political power........
1991 was already into cuts- so I wonder about the amount- but if it was 10 cents his statement was out of line. Call the medicine board/medical board of examiners, and report him. It isn't right to say I do not care who you are- and try surrounding counties and cities for media help- bet there is a competition hospital that would love to make it public- but it is a little far back there.
Make sure everybody carries medalert bracelets, cards etc- and knows their allergies off the top of their heads!!! This is the #1 cause of unintended hospital days- no med history or inapropriate with giving meds that either are allergy meds or incompatible.
AC Robertson,
Sorry, but you're way out in tin foil hat land. You sir, are an idiot. You have a couple personal examples along with some emotional baggage, and you're using that alone to make suggestions and claims about the entire medical profession. BTW, I'm a retired military guy myself on my 2nd career, so don't even try to make claims about medicine in the military.
First of all, physicians are forced (by the same pseudo intellectual group pushing this health care "plan") to incur hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt - along with a decade of post secondary education. To suggest that they should be paid the same as your "average" family or some bubble gum machine doc in Thailand simply illustrates ignorance and class envy. Period. Medical professionals sacrifice a great deal and make huge efforts to develop their career - and then they take on great debt to get there. What have YOU done?
Second, physicians are sued all the time. That's why malpractice insurance is a career an finance killer. Take OB-GYN for example. Ask yourself why they are in such short supply in so many areas? Answer: Extremely high malpractice insurance costs.
"Personally I avoid ALL doctors and take no medications.... They only see me when I need a Visa medical sign-off"? Wow - that's GREAT advice. Shazam! You found the solution to everything. Just get rid of physicians and medications altogether.
John,
As for the idea that you cannot use profits as a metric towards what is going on - ridiculous. Pure nonsense. Let's even forget about the actual "percentages" then, shall we? Let's talk total actual money. The total profits in dollars for insurance carriers adds up to .4% (four tenths of one percent) of health care spending in the US. So, if the insurance carriers are the real problem, let's assume you take away every penny of their profit. You've reduced health care spending by a whopping .4%.
But, you've also added 30k consumers.
So, exactly how does the current proposal "lower cost"? How does it "prevent cost increases"? How does it "reduce the deficit?"
It does not. It only further stresses the existing system, and pushes $500B of Medicare spending into Medicaid, demanding but not funding states obligations to pay for Health Care.
slowclimber- thank you, frp.
slowclimber -
If you think doctors salaries are the reason behind the rapidly escalating prices in insurance and not the Insurance Companies wanting larger profits..................................dear goodness.
Bottom line, as said before...doctors aren't slaves. Just because people are ignorant of the incredible amount of work it is to become a doctor and stay one, doesn't make doctors unable to change professions if those people get their way and short their pay or think they can in any way increase their hours. Doctors are able to earn a living somewhere else, somewhere else a lot less stressful and demanding...and they will if people don't pay for what they provide appropriately.
Some people are selfish. They think they are great because they work all day--the doctor is working all day too, longer hours. They don't care that they get off while the doctor is working, relax and watch TV while the doctor is working, go to bed and sleep while the doctor is working, get up go to work--doctor still working. People who did this for years while the doctor was studying instead of relaxing, morning till night, have no right to be ungrateful or complain about paying the costs. They aren't excused because they are ignorant of how the doctor worked harder than they do for almost nothing while they were in residency for years.
Doctors are no longer working three days and nights with no sleep as often as they used to, even in residency...and it was never a good idea, nor was it ever appreciated--because people are ignorant of anything they don't personally experience. Doctors are tired of dying 20 years earlier than they should be because their own health is compromised. They're no longer willing to lose their families and relationships with their kids because of a completely unreasonable schedule. If some people get their way, they'll soon be tired of providing medical care at all for ungrateful people who won't pay for it. People need to be willing to pay the real cost for things, not their imagined cost--ignorance is bliss, and everything is cheap if someone else pays the price!
I say, 55-60 hours a week of work and doctors today should get to go home, with a good paycheck and a "thank you" for the studying they do to maintain skills on their own time, on top of the studying they did all through school on their own time, and the integrity to go the extra mile when providing care to sick folks.
How about we do some health care reform by training some more people? Start with making those who complain work with medical residents and earn the same pay for the same hours...no whining that third day you're awake or when you get sued because someone figures you are rich and won't miss it, mistaking you for a slot machine.
I wonder how long the complainers would last? No question...they wouldn't.
Lee, most doctors will take cash. Go for it and start setting the example
John, is English your second language? Where in the world do you get the impression that I believe doctors salaries are behind health care increases? I absolutely do NOT. I was responding to somebody elses idiotic post essentially indicating that US physicians should be paid like physicians in Thailand. There are many reasons for increasing health care costs. Do you know what the primary reason is?
Personal behavior. Poor personal behavior leading to chronic obesity, creating incredibly high risks for all kinds of comorbidity factors. Diabetes. Heart Disease. The list goes on.
As for "Insurance companies wanting higher profits" let me ask you again. Is English your second language?
Let me be excruciatingly blunt for you. Insurance company profits - added all up in total - equal FOUR TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT OF HEALTH CARE SPENDING. What part of that do you not understand? So, please, PLEASE inform me as to how FOUR TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT can somehow equal 40% premium increases?
May I suggest "Math for Dummies"?
1.) You stated that health insurance contribute .4% of health care spending.
2.) You claim that doctors in the US should make the same as doctors in Thailand.
One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together what you are trying to say. If you didn't think doctors salaries were behind the costs of insurance or outrageous expenses, why would you say doctors in the US should make what doctors do in Thailand? If insurance companies aren't making any profits, whats your reasoning why health insurance costs are outrageous?
You should probably read the COH on posting in these forums too.
Here:
http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/cms/info/codeOfHonor
That is not what slow said at all.
MY BAD!!!!!!!!!!!
My apologies to slowclimber!!!!!!!!!!!!! I "meant" to respond to that AC Robertson!
But still, read the COH, personal attacks and name calling are uncalled for, no matter how many languages I speak. :-)
absolutely right- CoH is paramount.
We have a shortage of american born and american educated doctors right now. The next 5 to 8 years it will be a crisis! America has failed to prepare. Hillary tried to tell us in 1994 but America laughed at her and voted in republicans who only represent monied interests.
New Political Party:
Not Democrat, Not Republican, Not Independent.
It's called the "PISSED OFF PARTY" (or POP).
This party is dedicated to vote every incumbent out of office in the next elections.
If you're Democrat, vote Democrat. Just don't vote for the incumbent.
If you're Republican, vote Republican. Just don’t Vote for the incumbent.
We need to send a message to all politicians, that we're tired of their B.S.
If the country votes out all the incumbents, the new incoming politicians will get the message.
It's pretty simple. Nobody needs to change parties, and let’s face it, there's plenty of blame to spread around.
A few good politicians will lose their job but they probably have better retirement and insurance then 95% of the American public.
You've had to struggle for the last 5 years. Some of you have lost your job and may be working in some other sector just to feed your family. I guarantee you; none of them will suffer like this country has.
To All 535 voting members of the Legislature; it is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:
A.. The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broken.
B.. Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broken.
C.. Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 Years to get it right and it is broken.
D.. War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.
E.. Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.
F.. Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broken.
G.. The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.
You, the government, have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars!
AND NOW YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM? IT'S NOT ABOUT THE NEED FOR GOOD HEALTH CARE; IT'S ABOUT TRUSTING THE GOVERNMENT TO RUN IT!
With another 30 million to be insured by the new bill, we should expect that this will affect everyone soon.
We'll have two systems of care;
Prompt service for those who can afford to pay.
Months of delay for everyone else.
Agreed. The financial issues need to change. My profession now seems to be caught in an irreversible downward spiral. We're in a quagmire, we are sinking, and our government and our profession have failed us. Most primary care physicians (I am one) have seen their earnings steadily decrease since the 1990's (Inflation? Higher costs of living? Higher malpractice premiums? Tough. Deal with it.), having to hire often FIVE TIMES more office staff, in large part just to negotiate the loads of paperwork and "preauthorizations" before nearly every decision about how to treat our patients, what tests can be ordered, even what medicine to prescribe! Now there are whispers of ADDITIONAL taxes on whatever money the practice earns! Why do physicians always get the "butt end?" We're always the target, because people still think we make gobs of money. That hasn't happened since the 60's or 70's, since the insurance companies turned Medicine into a "business," instead of a respectful profession. I've just about had it. Between the increasingly invasive demands from our Federal government, the new, also invasive specialty board requirements, the health insurance companies' endless preauths and paperwork, the consequences of the computerized medical record mandate on productivity and therefore income (The computer slows things WAAY down, again decreasing income.), the high cost and risk of malpractice insurance along with the constant threat of lawsuit (97% of physicians are sued at least once in the course of their career), and the financial drain of keeping up one's affiliations with state boards, specialty boards and professional organizations (Everybody wants a piece of you.); I've come to realize that I could make more money as a plumber, continue to help people, and still not have to deal with as much fecal matter as I do now. Not to mention, a plumber is still considered a professional. Physicians, on the other hand, are now regarded as little more than hired servants who make too much money and need to be "shown their place" by getting knocked down a few pegs. LaBrea tar pits, here we come!
Lee actually proposed exactly what I thought healthcare reform should entail. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t pay cash for normal office visits and that EVERYONE should contribute to a single pool that covers care over a certain threshold, determined by income. This stupid system of having dozens (more?) of prices for each service is just plain stupid.
I love my HCFSA. I’ve never even really missed the money that I put into it and it lowers my taxes! What’s now to love? You could just draw from that for your basic care – we could even roll out an EBT system for that.
I had a baby last year and poured over my coverage statements from my insurance company. My provider might bill $300 for something. I’d pony up my $20 and then United Healthcare would pay $160. So then what the heck happened to the other $120 of “cost?” I mean, if the provider can do the procedure for $180 why can’t the service just have cost $180 no matter who you are?
Lastly, people keep yapping about insurance company profits, but what about their overhead? They’re taking in enough to pay claims and all of their admin costs and still irk out a profit – that’s a problem. I’m quite sure we could streamline the process if there weren’t a bazillion different companies all doing the same crap – and then we probably wouldn’t need all of these office assistants wasting so much time justifying this or that to some profit driven company.
P.S. I don’t think this sort of plan would require 2,000 pages to explain.
This perfect example PROVES OBAMACARE will cause RATIONING.
Michigan is cutting costs TODAY just like the federal government will cut costs TOMORROW.
The doctors will say "so sorry" you will die from lack of treatment.
Maybe GOVERNMENT CONTROL is not so great after all?
Oh please, all the politicians. They have been putting off the actual cuts to medicare for a decade yet they include them in the budget projections they create to pass stupid bills that give away money. They are ALL doing it. Bush, Obama it doesnt matter which politician you say.
Big Difference:
Obama wants to FORCE us out of private insurance into GOVERNMENT INSURANCE
Then the GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS will CUT SERVICES TO PAY FOR OTHERS.
Shouldn't we have the right to pay for ourselves and our families LIKE WE DO ALREADY?
A guy (and truly poor soul he is!) cannot afford to pay for his root channel out of pocket; no dentist within reasonable driving distance will take his Medicaid. Therefore, he's going to have this VERY painful, and potentially dangerous thing just sitting where it is - and get on with Tylenol pills. Not even antibiotic - only Tylenol.
At the same time, some one hour' drive up north, another guy, possibly with the same education, experience, etc, etc. , but also with, for example, Dow Chemical insurance, can have his root channel done with antibiotics, anesthesia, relaxing music and all that in any dentist's office he might prefer.
If it is not "medical care rationing", tell me, please, what's it? And it's all going on headlong, all over the country, RIGHT NOW!
MichGirl,
Good point. And ObamaCare will make it even worse.
As an aside, I would also point out that 60 years ago, the guy in your example (or the richest man in the country) would have had a quick, cheap, extraction. Notice how the country's attitude has changed about health care. People barely notice that we expect Cadillac health care for all (paid for by someone else). The problem is that the costs are escalating with even more miracle cures, and we truly cannot afford it all.
NO michigan medicaid QUIT paying for the dental services- reread the article- they also stopped paying for podiatry and chiropractic.
tea tree oil works on absessed teethe if you don't want them pulled. i'm scared to go to the dentist as every time i go, i end up worse off than i was to start. fact. if you are on medicaid you will not have teethe by the time you're 60 if you go to the dentist.
if they're going to make a national health care system, it needs to be across the board same for everyone. including them. i feel the ONLY way a health care plan will work is if it's government owned. period. government pays the overhead, docs get a salary. 50 yrs. ago drs. didn't get a fraction of what they get today.
Debbie, you are looking at high paid specialists who make that much money. Not general doctors. Also, 50 years ago it was cheaper to be a doctor; less regulation, less staff, less inspection costs, less certification, etc.
It is damn expensive to be a doctor. And who is going to pay that salary? The government? I work with salaried doctors, it does not make providing service to Medicare and Medicaid patients any more profitable.
Sure some of these guys make obscene money, but when you are the best of the best you get to charge what others think is fair.
If I am going to die and doctor one tells me that he can try to save me for $1000 and doctor two tells me he will save me for $2000 and has the track record to prove it, guess who I am going to go with.
Bill M- you are the best- great posts- well reasoned, and I appreciate your insights! FRP
There is no such thing as Obamacare
Tea tree oil will not heal an abscessed tooth. It may temporarily ease the symptoms but the abscess will still be there. Eventually the nerve in the tooth will die. The problem is still there. Also the infection, if severe enough can go to your brain and kill you.
The dental office I worked at we did not accept medicaid, but we worked with the patients. We would not send them out the door without antibiotics if they had an infection. We actually took payments and we took "X" amount of charity cases a year and wrote them off as a loss.
saw a kid 24 die of an abcessed tooth into the brain- so not pretty.
People on Medicaid should not be allowed to have kids. If the taxpayers have to pay for the birth the parents are responsible for, what else are we going to have to pay for? The kids housing? Food? If you cannot feed them, don't breed them. Keep your legs together and stay out of my wallet.
Agree 100%!!!
Taxed,
You got that right brother
Should be forced sterilization for any man/woman w a child on welfare.
Quit breeding if you can't take care of them.
Is this the real reason the democrats want the federal government to pay for abortions?
Wouldn't have to pay for multiple kids or abortions for Welfare recipients.
Just pay for one snip-snip operation and we will be fine.
I am sorry, but not all medicaid people are as you describe. I know a family who is on it because the primary wage earner got hurt a work. They have four children who were 6, 8, 10 and 12 before they had to get this "help". They had Blue Cross from the employer before the Dad got hurt. BTW: Back injury with signifigant nerve damage, and signifigant loss of large motor on the right side of the body. This whole family is nicer than most and still has my respect and others around them. I think the system was designed for folks like this family. It is sad that so many use and abuse it. Ruins it for those who deserve help.
On the other hand, those who just live off the system and make babies they already cannot afford to pay for need to be drug tested monthly. Pop poositive, you lose all benifits and I do not care how many kids you have.
There are a difference between someone getting sick/hurt and using medicaid and people using welfare as a lifestyle.
I've used medicaid when I was out of work and very very ill. I've PAID more than my fair share in taxes not to. People like myself and the family you are describing are who welfare and medicaid were ORIGINAL intended to help. Not as a supplement to someones lifestyle because they are too lazy to go out and work.
I predict very soon ALL forms of welfare will be done away with, we simply can't afford the to carry the deadbeats any longer.
"Is this the real reason the democrats want the federal government to pay for abortions?"
Well, I think it is for a lot of people. The facts seem to show that most abortions are obtained by the poor and minorities, and some people are just as happy to have those children killed asap. I've heard people say that those aborted babies would have just been abused and joined gangs later, so it is better for them to be aborted before birth. Save on the prison bill. Seriously.
http://www.abort73.com/abortion/abortion_and_race
As a physician I can generalize and state that the majority of Medicaid patients are decent folk, but compared to non-Medicaid patients, a higher percentage have "issues." They no-call no-show for appointments. They lose prescriptions, test order forms, and other paperwork which I have to re-do. They are non-compliant with medical advice. They need more time to understand even simple concepts. Drug-seekers are more common in the group as a whole. But I put in the extra effort with these patients (despite the crummy reimbursement rates) because that is why I went into the profession, the issues in my other post #1.7 notwithstanding.
lol@ example of good person on medicare...come to Chicago..I'll give you 2.3 MILLION examples of the opposite.
Taxed...that is a good starting point. If we can control the salaries of employees in the companies that we bailed out and tell where and when they can spend their money, why can't we tell welfare receipents what they can buy. Too many on welfare have great cars, cell phones, and nice clothes. They could afford health care if they spent their money more wisely.
tired - i just found out that if you are on welfare, wic, food stamps that there is a FREE cell phone program for you via tracphone??? I had been lookin for a cheaper rate for my sister and found this program available in all 50 states with a free phone!
We could reduce the welfare costs by about 70% with a simple drug text!
A lot of medicaid recipients are elderly people, many in nursing homes. These people are in that position because medicare does not cover catastrophic illness or extended care, these poor have exhausted their entire savings and are truly wards of the states. The fees medicaid dictates the provides accept are at best meager. I have had to drop out of the program after many years because I wait 8 months for reimbursement and in many cases receive little or nothing for services I provide. I still see people I have cared for over the years but its easier to just write it off. There are many who believe one or the other group makes too much money, I can tell you the cost of doing business in relation to the profit is not a financial jackpot. Further dealing with the government is different than insurance companies the government can use it's power to make providers miserable for any reason they choose. Take a good look at the level of care medicaid recipients receive and how they are forced to look high and low for a provider that may become your lot in life once this overhaul is in place.
Geez you would have made a good Nazi. Less exterminate the poor. I cannot believe I live in a country with idiots like yourself.
logdog, you need to be more specific to whom you are referring to. YOU do understand this country (and frankly, the world...read some foreign papers once in a while) are being inundated with the poor. They are breeding out of control and costing us responsible workers who pay our taxes money we longer have. I suggest you Google our National Debt and who our government is borrowing money from, just to stay afloat now! We can't afford them and we should NOT be expected to!
This is not all, Doctor owned hospitals are outlawed in healthcare reform. This is how government run healthcare has been subsidized for the last15 years. Medicare will go the way of medicaid within a year. Then watch the number of ER visits increase. This healthcare reform will cost at lease 50% more than what they are telling us.
The medical industry is a big business.
And the basic rule of business is to charge the maximum that the consumer will pay.
You can't blame that on health care reform.
That would be the "fault" of our Capitalist society.
LU,
A little oversimplified, but you've got the basic idea. That is what makes our country great.
Obviously, you don't approve, so I ask you:
Why didn't you spend 11+ years working 100+ hours per week at a cost of over a quarter of a million dollars so that self-entitled people could tell you that you are in the only business in the country where you're not allowed to make as much money as you can, but must work for what they want to pay?
Number 1..healthcare is Not For Profit. They do not allow competition for Pharma...so this is capitalist how? They have a MONOPOLY. Let in competition..this "issue" will go away.
Mark,
Yes, there are some non-profit hospitals, but all the docs I've ever heard of get paid for it. Most of them are small businessmen running small practices.
"Pharma" certainly does have competition. There are competing drugs, and when patents expire, there are generics. A typical drug has huge development costs, but not necessarily high production costs. The drug companies have to get back their development costs before the generics sell for the production costs plus a profit margin, or else they go out of business. Then, of course, there would be no new drugs, miracle or otherwise.
Getting back to my main point, I have little respect for those who think doctors should limit their incomes the way no other professional in this country does.
Econman:
I am a believer in the free market society.
I don't blame the medical industry, I blame the consumers for getting sucked into their scam.
People are way too quick to pop a pill or have an operation instead of controlling their health with diet and exercise.
The CBO is notorious for underestimating the costs of bills! They underestimated Medi-Care by a factor of 9! I'm afraid the costs will be much, much higher than 50%!
Many doctors do not accept medicare now. It is hard to find doctors now. With cut to medicare, which many have paid for, it will only get more difficult. HHS states what they will and will not pay for (last time I looked that is rationing) and now Obama's proposed cut it will be more difficult.
The states are getting Federal matching money for their dollars. The problem was that recently some states are taking money out of their Medicaid funds and putting it in their General Funds. Another recent problem is that not only did they cut the payments to physicians etc, but they raised the requirements to qualify for Medicaid. It was the States that are doing the schick on Medicaid, not the Federal gov't. States have always administered the Medicaid program according to how they wanted. The Federal gov't had to step in with "basic" requirements to keep the states from "cherry" picking their populations that signed up for Medicaid. As to the lowering of payments, again that is a State choice. So it's the locals doing in their physician and medical people and the people they care for. Don't think for a minute that any State legislature or govenor is going to keep out of health care. They're in it up to their necks already.
Here in Minnesota, health care for quadraplegics has been cut because the governor cut the hell out of the Health and Human Services budget, yet he imposed a 3% sales tax on all purchases of $20.00 or more in Hennepin County to help pay for the new Minnesota Twins Baseball Stadium. He is also looking to help Ziggy publicly fund a new Minnesota Vikings Football Stadium by using Minnesota Lottery Funds.
So, where there is a will to come up with money for pet projects, there is a way, but if it's to benefit people who have lost their jobs, there's no will and NO WAY!!!
That's because you have a Republican Governor. They believe health care is a privelege only for the rich. You can tell by their efforts in the past several years to improve health care.
Liberal babble. How the hell does Detroit have a stadium and a baseball field if what you say is true...back to your mumbling....
And we call it THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA a joke not one of the states unite with the Federal Government. Wake up America most European Countries have public health care WHY NOT US? In a word greed.
How do you expect to pay for this multi trillion dollar free service you are whining for?? We are trillions of dollars in debt, are not taking enough money to pay for soc. sec., medicaid is about broke, and states are cutting back because they can't pay for the needy. You cant continue to tax people to death and continue to drive business out of this country because of taxes either. There is no right to health insurance in the Constitution nor should there be. Before you have socialist obamacare first correct the flaws in the system like tort reform, elimination of pre-existing clause, and take away the states control to regulate and create insurance monopolies within their states. There is alot of changes that can be done that both parties and America in general would agree on.
How does every other Country in the World pay for their citizen's health care tired?
Maybe they have the funds because they don't blow all of their money on their military buildup??
absolutely right- and why should healthy compliant careful people have to pay for fat lazy smoker drinkers?? The euro societies are far more homogeneous and do not try to save you on your last legs like we do here. We should cut health care to the elderly.
Lu,
Then make it voluntary, so that you and Ed and other libs get extra taxes taken out of your pay and businesses and those of us who choose not to take obama care don't have to pay for it. How about that take care of yourself, be responsible.
DJ: I agree, that's a big part of the equation.
Tired: I am offered free health insurance with one of the companies I work for, but I decline to participate. I take care of myself through diet and exercise and if I want or need something I pay for it in cash.
It is my experience that the majority of people that oppose reforming health care are already on one of the "liberal socialist" government run health care programs and/or they are just towing the party line for the GOP.
Which one are you ....or is it both??
interesting but not entirely true - been to amsterdam lately? legal heroin use has upped the number of junkies astronomically since I was first there in 69 and it was most pot smoking. It's a sad arena today when those heroin users needing new livers...who will pay for THEIR transplants? Any ideas?
Lu, well - guess what? If the Democrats have their way and not only misuse reconciliation (as Byrd swore was not appropriate for sweeping changes of this magnitude and which Obama swore he would not use) but ALSO attempt to subvert the constitution by "deeming" a bill to pass - you will no longer have that choice. You'll be forced to pay.
Your experience that the "majority of people that oppose reforming health care are already on one of the "liberal socialist" government run..." is unfortunately not founded in any sort of facts whatsoever. Be that as it may, it does not matter. Perhaps you discount the idea that some of the people that ARE using that "socialist" program do not like it and are not satisfied with it. You discount their opinion? Or is it that you simply discount ANY opinion that doesn't agree with yours?
Instead of putting labels on it or making accusations, how about you discuss facts. I'll start first - though I seriously doubt that you'll want to participate. I've yet to see any meaningful dialogue about facts from any supporters of this legislation.
Let's discuss the percentage of ER visits by uninsured patients. 17%. Fact.
Now, the percentage of medical costs JUST WITH ER VISITS from uninsured patients? Less than 4%. Why the discrepency? Because the majority of uninsured just happen to be in the younger age group with a far lower percentage of disease states and therefore lower medical costs associated. Sorry. Facts.
Let's move on. Let's now talk about some of those costs that ARE passed on to other consumers, OK?
Medicare and Medicaid.
Why? Because the reimbursement rates are lower than actual costs, resulting in the cost delta to be passed on to all the OTHER (meaning non-government insurance) patients. Ooops.
Now, a little more along those lines. Let's talk about how this plan takes $500B out of Medicare. So, you're taking money AWAY from Medicare - which is ALREADY paying lower reimbursement rates than actual costs. Hmmmmm..... Seems like there's a problem in paradise, pal.
So let's dig in there a little. How exactly are those cuts being made? Well, some of them are based on transitioning reimbursements from Medicare to Medicaid. Uh oh! Who pays for that? Well, it's shared by Federal and State Goverments. So, let's say HALF of it isn't really going away (can you spell "deception" Mr Obama?). And the other HALF is an "unfunded mandate" by the Federal Government on State Goverments (which doesn't have the money).
Whoops!
So, let me get this straight. We're doing nothing whatsoever about underlying actual MEDICAL costs. We're reducing reimbursements. We're pushing some financial obligations to already bankrupt state governments which we're ALREADY having to bail out. And we're adding 30 million people to the roles.
WTH exactly are we "reforming"? How EXACTLY are premiums being reduced? How EXACTLY is the deficit being reduced?
Oh, that's right. By taking all that profit from the Insurance Companies.
The total profit that equals FOUR TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT OF HEALTH CARE COSTS.
Wow. I guess you need to have that super secret liberal decoder ring to understand this.
It's not about Health Care people. It's absolutely and clearly about transfer of wealth, and about building of dependent voter pools.
And it's not only sad. It's disgusting.
Maybe Doctors should be forced to treat the needy why should the poor suffer for lack of money or a job its not always a self choice. Not all people can have the good job and be well off,its just not possible;there will always be the need for someone to wait tables,work fast food,clean rooms,wash people cars or boats,baby sit,on and on. Or maybe this lady should just learn to fly a plane before she dies ? forget the landing part. This world is a sick f ing place..........Thanks for letting me vent
That would work out if the government paid for their education.......then what kind of doctors would we have?
In many cases the government does pay their way
maybe we should cut out all gov loans for education
Loans!!!! That means we pay them back, not gov paying our way...
Wrong. The gov't LOANS us money for our educations. Then we have to pay back a 6-figure loan w/ a high interest rate.
why should doctors have to work for free? You do not want to work for free, and BTW only military trained docs have their med school paid for- the rest of us pay our way.
I always thought I had to care for people no matter what they could pay, but pldp19 you have changed my mind- if people are going to be ungrateful and greedy and want doctors to work for free after everything we do to get here- it just isn't worth it.
steph - as one who began my career via military commission we pay in a way which not equalled anywhere else on earth - by way of pay BACK on active duty service to our men and women in uniform wherever they are deployed on the planet. For bright future medical minds I recommend it strongly. There is much to be said for military service as a physician - I have never regretted it and found it a most viable means to an end - which in my case led to a surgical specialty. But Free? No. No tuition perhaps and no malpractice expenses while on AD; but not free. If you ask around you'll likely be amazed at just how many of our medical and dental colleagues began their careers as USUHS grads. Incredible surgical training ground, esp. in live theatre of forward deployed units. You get really good, really fast in an amazingly short period of time.
I'm sorry- I know you guys pay back the money in time and service- there was a comment that many of us had our schooling paid for- a thousand pardons!
buche de noel; As a Viet Nam veteran I needed the services of your colleagues on a couple of occasions. Given the situation I was rarely able to thank them directly. Please allow me to speak for many of us and Thank You for your service!
This notion of 'forcing doctors to .........." is doomed to failure. There ARE national health scholars who must pay back their medical school scholarships by service in areas considered 'underserved', but you might be surprised to note some of those areas. Do YOU want to be treated by any medical professionals who have been 'FORCED" to treat you?? I'd be wary of that inn any scenario. Actually, I am of the belief that services contracted for should absolutely be paid to those who render them to me. Moreover, I'd like to dispel the ideal that while Western culture is certainly growing fatter and more sedentary across the board (and this now extends to cultures traditionally slim who relocate here, and then become fat and sedentary) there are nonetheless disease entitites which afflict the human body whose aetiolgoies have nothing to do with obesity and smoking: pediatric malignancies come immediately to mind as do inborn errors of metabolism and genetic predispositions to certain anatomic flaws such as kinked ureters in newborns then setting up a lifetime of urologic ills (correctable by surgery and now, by FETAL SURGERY!) Do you think your baby, your grandchild having the need for this astonishing intervention would survive in another nation's system of health care? Unlikely in the extreme - the mother would miscarry or worse, experience fetal demise and then HER health would hang in the balance via an overwhelming sepsis and the answer THEN would be delivery of a dead infant. Please know ladies and gentlemen that it is NOT all about fat people smoking and drinking 12-packs at the Nascar stadium (no disrespect meant to Nascar fans). Try to realize simply this: the doctor is not your enemy despite all this online ferocity. The doctor you revile on the internet today might be the guy/gal you thank God for when the chips are down - and likely it won't be YOUR health but that of a small child that you love which will allow you to see the light of day. A 6 month old baby with neuroblastoma is NOT at fault (nor are the parents) for this horrifying, blinding cancer of babies' eyes that often requires that in order to save the baby - one or both eyes require enucleation (surgical removal). Things are not always so black and white and in cases such as this - thoughts of money recede until that baby you love so much, and would take a BULLET for, is restored back to best possible health. Who do you think makes that restoration possible? It is NOT a doctor who has been FORCED to do anything but a brilliant mind and skilled hands which are appropriately rewarded by soceity for their special and rare abilities. THAT'S WHY such skills are valued in this world.
Take away rewards and you remove motive. And yes - Mother Teresa was a saint for her charity work in the third world with lepers, etc. - but saints are in rare supply the last time I checked and Mother Teresa did NOT perform history making surgery like the first face transplant (done in France - to give credit where credit is due) American surgeons WANTED to do face transplants for years and the science has been there for quite some time but ETHICS boards stood in their way. Now - the facial transplant is becoming, thankfully routine - and those poor souls who qualify for the procedure stand ready, and waiting and willing to pay. Even though many of the surgeons will do the work pro bono - THE HOSPITALs do not give away their OR time, their staff time or their inpatient resources for FREE!
Think about this while you blast, curse and revile physicians because their salaries are 'too high'. Or as you get on the boat with your sick child for other nations where life is cheap. Think. That is all I ask.
What are you complaining about? Medicaid is the reason your state taxes are so high, and medicare and medicaid are the reasons your federal taxes are so high. The only way to cut taxes is to cut spending! So what if a few people can't get health care?
these are the income limits of MA/medicaid in MN
MA Income Limits for People Who areBlind, have a Disability, or are Age 65 or older
July 1, 2009 – June 30, 2010
Family Size
Monthly Income
1
$ 677
2
911
3
1,145
4
1,379
5
1,613
cyber - I try to make certain no one gets the two mixed up vis a vis Medicaid vs. Medicare. The latter is something the elderly and disabiled access at age 65 AND pay a monthly copay which currently is approximately one hundred dollars each month for part B which is your physician coverage. part A - hospitalization, is automatic.
Medicaid - or Medical in California is an ENTITLEMENT program for medical care which deems all your assets to ensure you have significant level of poverty to entitle you/ your unborn baby and then living baby to medical/pharmaceutical services. In California, this is why the citizens were so irate with octomom. She defrauded the State of Cal with her in vitro services/student loans and obvious lack of control as a parent. It's THAT use of Medicaid/Cal that makes taxpayers cringe with revulsion because it is MEANT to help those in critical need medically and not to finance a fake like octomom's litter which cost the state over a millions dollars to inseminate octomom, care for her multiple/high risk pregnancies and post natal expense to a woman who should be working but no may claim her multiples as her career that ALL Californian's must now support via taxes in a BANKRUPT economy which is modern California.
Everytone is suffering during these hard times, not just the ones that refused to prepare for tough times. The congress is about to pass a bill that will make every wage earner in this country eligible for food stamps and welfare. Now the circle is complete. Obama and the Socialists have succeeded in destroying the country as we knew it. I'm German-Irish. Thanks to Obama, I can claim I'm Mexican and get everything free. If I claim to be German-Irish, I'll have to work til the day I die to support those that won't.Â
All you have to do is repeat that insanity to a psychiatrist and all of your health care - and room and board - will be free...
...hopefully for the rest of your life...
Haha, my thoughts exactly LU.
Sorry the Medicaid patient cited in this article freely chooses not to go to another doctor. But under the Obama Health Care, a patient would go from doctor to doctor to doctor and have strangers looking at you that don't have a clue who you are. The services are the same for the unfortunate patient. The theme of many (not all) who want Obamacare is to have not just a qualfied physician, but one top quality physician and services at little or no cost.
Hey Retired ? You have know idea what you're talking about. There is NOTHING in the bill about going from Doctor to Doctor. You should read the bill before youmake an untrue statement. I have read every draft. they are online at C-span and many places. I can tell you just don't like President Obama. So just sit back and let the "REAL AMERICANS" Fix the problems of the last Administration and Republican Congress.
maybe you should go back and read the senate bill!! this bill goes thru and we all will be so screwed that even quote you "real americans" won't know which side you got screwed on.
Typical lib diatribes, you are not a TRUE American but a TRUE SOCIALIST who think wealth redistribution and taxing the middle class into extinction are the answer to your problems. All you and your COMRADES will do is turn this country into another broke third world country. Maybe that is your plan sad.
I love to see people that are completely dependent on "liberal socialist" programs extol the horrors of "liberal socialist" programs.
You have the option to not apply for Social Security and Medicare...
...but you "deserve it", right??
Ed,
Sorry you folks got the wrong impression. I was taking the words the unfortunate patient said. Should have written: The patient in the article said she didn't want to go from doctor to doctor to doctor and have strangers looking at (her).
PS: I pay for private health insurance.
People in this country were NOT given a choice about paying INTO the system, and it was a benefit they were promised. Most made retirement plans based on those promises, and they paid in why would they not use what they paid for?
What you want is entirely new taxes for people who will not do for themselves- and don't bring up one more exception - we all know they are out there but they are the minority- quit mythologizing the poor- they are not all wonderful hardworking people who fell on hard times- the vast majority are people who made BAD choices- drugs alcohol babies out of wedlock and way too early quit school etc.
Many of us were told by the government that our retirement is based on three legs: savings, a small pension, and social security. for forty years the government has stated this and now some of you want to take my savings, tax my pensions, and take my social security because you either have not been responsible and taken care of yourself or you want to force your morality on me. Aid to those that get hurt or sick is one thing but another entitlement for those who are druggies, irresponsible with their lives, etc. never should happen. If you have kids youtake care of them otherwise, don't have them. If you send money out of the country, you pay your own medical insurance and if you donate to a political party you need to pay your medical insurance first.
Headlines in the local newspaper today - Medicare patients unable to obtain care.. They report they are unable to process new sign ups and are also unable to get support from the government to help them. People are dying and going without medical care according to the news release. What will happen when these poor people have to depend on the Obama health care program after its the only program when the current Medicare program is not able to help the people. The entire Obama heath program is all about getting more tax dollars from the American people so they can be manipulated just like the Social Security funds that have been drained by the democrats.
Ding, ding, ding! Exactly right.
As a dentist it is insulting to even think of accepting medicaid. First of all you only get about 40 cents on the dollar. Second at least a third of those claims are denied for various reasons. Third, the majority of the people on are just plain sorry excuses for human beings who are angry because the government does not pay for all their expensive care. Fourth, 38% of the patients do not make their appointments leaving the doctor and staff sitting there staring at the walls. Fifth, the bureauocracy that the government places in front of you to get paid is insulting, especially since you are working at a reduced fee. Sixth, you are just as liable for hippa, osha, red flag, malpractice and all the other regulatiory BS the government places in front of us. And last, at least half of these people drive a more expensive car than I do and have no trouble paying for their cigarettes.
What ever happened to paying for your own needs instead of having the government put a gun to the head of your neighbor to pay for it?
You opened a new account just to list yourself as a Dentist?
TD- absolutely true- don't blame you a bit!! Rock on!
Tooth - I totally agree with you. I don't think most lay people have a CLUE what no shows do to provider schedule's. Interestingly - have you ever tracked your no shows via coverage? I worked for a time at a federally funded health collective where no one was ever turned down for service regardless of ability to pay. We even had a DRIVER who went out to pick up patients who did not have transportation. With Medicaid, free pickup and delivery to the clinic AND outreach to ensure their meds are covered via assorted programs for 'indigent' - STILL greater than 70 percent no shows which is why I was often triple booked. These are people who would not miss a beauty parlor appointment unlead dead or dying but wouldn't bother to pick up the phone to cancel their 45 minute office surgery during which time I could have seen three patients who did NOT get a appointment that day.............how is that responsible behavior? When the clinic van ran the bell they are all sitting around the TV eating Burger King and drinking cokes. PS - the patient who 'forgot' his surgical appoint was a diabetic with A1C of 8 on the avg visit. If it's 'free' it will have NO VALUE to the end user. Now, many years later in my career I will choose who my probono patient is - NOT Uncle Sam. When it comes to MY services to patients - My judgement rules. The day that choice is no longer mine (or any other doctor's) it the day your doctor hangs a 'closed' sign on the office. Want more insight? Go watch the movie 'Dr Zhivago - THAT's what medical care will be like. You think you wait a long time NOW? You have NO IDEA...............none.
So much for Drs. and Dentists being non-judgemental about their patients. I am certainly not saying that the system is not abused by people because it is. Of course you need to make a profit in your business. But if I were a patient of yours and found out you talked behind their backs as I bet you do as soon as they leave your practice, I'd be ashamed. People hold Physicians and Dentists in high regard. Most do anyway, but that's just mho. If you are that hateful towards Medicaid patients (no, I am not on Medicaid) and any others you don't make your fee off of, change your policies to not accept them and/or anyone else who comes up short in cash and whomever else you feel insulted by. I was employed by 2 Dentists 20 years ago for many years, and never once, did they say anything about patients being sorry human beings like you did. Everyone was treated with respect and as equals regardless of their financial status. And you know what? The people who couldn't afford to pay thousands all at once were trusted to make weekly or monthly payments. Very few ended up going to collections. I know it has been many yrs. since then and the financial climate has changed dramatically. But to call them sorry excuses for human beings well, it's just a guess but I bet your entire staff are better than anyone else too, and talk about patients terribly as soon as they are out the door. I worked for a Dentist for a very short time filling in for someone on vacation whose staff along with the Dr. talked terribly about people and not just the poorer patients. Everyone was a target. The gal I was filling in for was talked down terribly. No respect in that office for the feelings of anyone, even their own. And you might want to make a call list of your "well paying" patients who are able to show up in short order to make up for all those sorry human beings who didn't call to let you know they weren't going to make it to their appointments. Maybe you should change your policies soon before you blow a vessel.
That was 20 years ago, and the regulatory and legal climate has changed. As I said before- the fees just keep the doors open, appreciation is the issue.
Before you say anything about the way I or my colleagues speak about anyone on this board know this- I have and always will treat every single person with respect as each of the posters have and will-I have NEVER looked at billing sheets before I care for anyone- and mostly don't afterward. That is the admin- I do medicine. This is supposed to be a place to openly communicate- and even vent- as so may have against docs!
But walk a mile in my shoes and see patients gaming the system, treat the man who beat his child with deference, try to save the life of a man who just shot and killed two police officers, the woman who tried to drown her child, the man whose wife shot him in the chest- you grind that down with the woman having her fifth child on medicaid who doesn't speak english and see if you can drink it- I am willing to bet you can't. We don't all work in swanky offices where we can afford to let the bills go for long periods of time- and malpractice rates were low 20 years ago- so be sure to stay current about what is out there.
This is a story about "taking the focus OFF the Doctors and using it as a political tool". First of all, most doctors I know that are worth their salt DO NOT have an "Office Manager". They have a bustling practice and their receptionist/office person does all the work on the business side. How are these "SO CALLED" Doctors that have a big staff? They are just in the health care business for Financial reasons. NOT MEDICAL REASONS. They are hipocrits and shouldn't be allowed to practice. When I go to Europe, my friends that are doctors would SHOOT you if you called them an American doctor. It is the bigest insult you can make to any medical professional outside the U.S. And it is a TRUEISM. Doctors are supposed to make a sacred vow to "DO NO HARM", Yet they knowingly let patients die because of payment and in many cases like the first one in this article, they INDUCED the pain and death of a patient. I have personally seen it many times. It is a disgrace to that profession and the U.S.A. ! I can just see when THEY are near death and ready to meet THEIR maker......
Dr: "Lord, I tried to do my best ......" GOD: ( in a loud voice) BULL@!$%# !!!!!!
Or actually, most of them will realize THEIR real maker....... Dr: " I did what I could...". Satan: " Well done my child."
Any So Called "Doctor" that refuses a patient because of " Low" payments or NO payment is a WHITE'ED SEPULCER !!!
PERIOD !!!!! ( Truth Be Told ) VERITAS !!!!!
You are kidding aren't you. You are asking the doctors to take small payments that won't cover their expenses? Would you own a business and pay all the expenses to run your business and then take little or no money for your services? How would you stay in business?? you libs kill me, look at your god Sorros, if he cares sooo much why no donate some of his billions and help the poor.
This has turned into a game. The hospitals are charging far more than the care is worth. They do this knowing that insurance companies are only going to pay a portion of it. Those without insurance are completely screwed as the prices are way overblown!
You said, " You libs kill Me". My question is this " How did you already know that ? " We know that "Your-Kind" is on your way to the extinction list. As all Neanderthals go, so will the Greed, hate, fear, cowardice, lieing, chicken-headed, hide-behind-a-flag, routines that you us will go too. Then Real Americans will be all that's left to BURY the GOP/RNC signs.....
Ed's idea will solve a problem. Run all doctors out of business eliminating the need for care. Then all complaining stops and politics can play no role. Just think of the money it would free up and the bureaucracy it would eliminate? Break your leg? Tough it out. Cancer? See you the other side. No doctors -- no more hypocrites. One other solution is for Ed to put his money where his mouth is. Become one of these doctors he likes to criticize. You know, walk in another man's shoes before you decide what that guy should do.
i DO put my money where my mouth is. If you claim to be a Doctor, don't come crying to me or anyone about your life of lugury in colleges and the good life that most in this world could not even imagine. Just think, the doctor is crying because he missed his T-time. WHAT A BABY..... I fought for this country and I see cowards like you complaining about PAY ???? YOU MOMMA'S BOY....
Ed, you're ignorant. British doctors only think its an insult to be called an American doctor because Britains don't want to be compared to America period. Our country is statistically one of the highest spenders per capita on health. I have done numerous medical missions all over the world, and every time I go to a different country, we have more patients show up than can imagine. Go to Canada if you want your healthcare that way and wait in line like every one else waiting in line to die without care.
How many of your "doctor friends" in Europe paid for their own medical education? In France, Germany, England, (just to name a few), the government picks up their tab for their medical schooling and training. Most of these doctors don't have an office staff, because all medical records are computerized, billing is is done between the government and doctor(turn around time for payment is between 3 days to a week on average), and patients have access to all types of treatments, and the biggest of it all: malpractice insurance cost is next to nothing. Now these doctors don't make $250k a year, but they do make a very comfortable living, without all the hassle's associated with a doctors office in the US. But the best part of it all, they can spend more quality time with each patient they see.
So as long as these doctors in the US pay their own way for everything, they have every right to pick and choose who they want to treat, where to practice, and how much to charge. We may not like it, but that is the way it is. So what if they're in it for financial gain? That's their choice. Who are we to tell these drs who to treat and how much they should charge. As with everything else in the US, 99.9% of all professions is a business, and businesses are in the business to make a profit.
Ed, I take life as it comes. That's just the way it is. Sometimes there are no solutions. Life is not easy my man and I would never, ever, determine what another man's worth is. His earnings for his labor is his business. You take the dictators approach. You think you know what another man should earn. You see, if you read the story, you would have seen these doctors did everything possible to treat these patients while trying to stay in business. But you take the typical Liberal path and react emotionally without an once of logic behind your thinking.
Ed, whats a life of lugury?
Sorry, most doctors don't "party up" or live the high life while going to school. See, you need good grades throughout your education.
By the time a surgeon is done with school and all there training, 12+ years have passed. School loans totaling upwards of 100-300k+.
You want Doctors to making 40k a year? You would need to reduce schooling+training to 4 years, make doctors immune to lawsuits, etc.
Ed-
doctors in Europe work LESS hours than we do over here. They tend to practice medicine based on research and studies done over here by American doctors. And I saw many, many people over there learning how to deal w/ pain and suffering b/c the medical system wouldn't pay for the solution. For instance, I remember seeing an older woman walking on an obviously poorly healed broken hip. I have never, never once seen someone in the States learning how to walk on a broken hip. NOT ONCE.
You guys all rock- I have felt like a real outcast on the vine saying all the things ya'll are saying- except I will point out some doctors are girls!
You must not know alot of doctors Ed because offices don't run without office managers. Stupid
hey ed - I served this country too, IN UNIFORM for 12 years and until very recently still drilled with my reserve unit. My late father, also a military surgeon, was MY hero having served during our second world war. He set the bar very high for me and my brothers - first as a military surgeon and then on his own in the civilian sector and a tougher, smarter man did NOT exist. He made a lucrative career from being a surgeon and earned every single penny. Smart with his finances and put four kids through college and encouraged us all to seek medical degrees. Three from four did this in uniform including myself. No free rides given in our home and most importantly NO ENTITLEMENT MENTALITIES. What we have - we earned and we gave plenty of it away to those who needed help. Don't expect to get the best for a discount. The capitalist economy in which the nation was born doesn't work that way. IF YOU really served - then you should be more knowledgeable. Of course doctors go to college - and it was not 'lugury' to use your peculiar language. Grow up ed, and be a big boy and know that some of us are proud to have followed a legacy of greatness and accomplishment. There is nothing more satisfying - IF your father did something of value which made you proud to be his daughter. To be a military surgeon serving with your combat unit in a hot LZ. If that makes me a daddy's girl all I can say is that YOU should have been as fortunate as I was. You claim to have served - but sadly you did NOT get the take home which is YOUR country with all it's flaws in general and in health/medicine is better than anything else on the globe. Perhaps if you enjoy the medical advantages of other nations you might consider relocating there?
What in the world is this lady thinking? Doctors can't afford to treat Medicaid patients because they'll go out of business. So what does she do? Raise taxes even more on doctors which seems to me that it would force even more doctors to drop these patients. It will turn into one big destructive circle. And this article high-lights the real problem our government system has created. Their solution? Bring more healthy taxpayers into the system and push the problem out a little further. $42,000 per/year for mp insurance is just about equal to a medium income in the U.S. Is it any wonder why the cost medical care is exploding? The current bill in Congress does nothing to address this.
ed you are not a real american but a real socialist
Rather a Socialist than a Republican COWARD !!!
cheer up--just think the new health care reform bill is going to take another 500 billion dollar cut in medicare and tax the doctors revenue on top of that--boy, can't you just wait for obamacare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“My office manager was telling me to do this for a long time, and I resisted,” Dr. Sahouri said.
I bet this office manager makes a hefty salarie off of hospital patients no matter what .
another fear and smear right wing story .
Right on. There's no reason why the office manager shouldn't live in poverty.
Then we can provide him/her with subsidized government mandated health care too.
Leroy, it's really none of your business what another person's salary is. Maybe we think you should earn half of minimum wage because that is what you're worth in our view.
According to the US Gov dtd May 2008. The average Medical health manager makes $88,750 a year or $42.67 a hour...... and the Medical assistant only gets paid $13.97.....
LeRoy and AC,
Jealousy is an ugly emotion... if being a doc is so great, medical school starts every September, residencies start every July... knock yourself out!
Why would I want to become a Doctor, someone that is going to be 'FORCED' to become a Government employee...
The only jealousy is 'Doctors' are not held accountable for their mistakes, unlike other professionals, except Lawyers/Politicians........ Ha! Ha!
I retired 10 years ago and will be eligible for SS next year....... IMO Doctors are crying because they picked the WRONG Profession/Speciality and the rules are changing.......
But, but, but .......
Obamacare is going to drain $500 billion from Medicare and Medicaid to fund yet another entitlement.
They wouldn't do something that would jeopardize health care of senior citizens ....
Uh, would they ?????
It will put no one's health care in jeopardy. But keep passing on the lies. Fewer people are buying into those every day.
Sounds like " FOX news" to the letter. Fox: for those who don't have a Clue and are angry about their life. LMAO.... WHAT COWARDS YOU ARE.... Read the bill and then you can apologize about not knowing aboutthe money coming from the Insurance companies and NOT the Medicare doctors re-inbursements.
I'm a conservative and it blows my mind that liberals watch and know more about FOX than I do..........
Ed - I haven't a clue what's on Fox news. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that taking this kind of money out of Medicare/Medicaid is going to have an impact.
That's what the article is about. Try reading it.
Medicaid is an unfunded tax drain. Many of use have paid for medicare for forty years and in fact our insurance becomes a secondary payee after 65. I would rather continue to have my insurance as the primary. the government created a mess and the people are now paying. Now they are making a bigger mess and so many people want soemthing for nothing that they will not open their eyes.
So, the basic gist of these comments is that if you don't have the means to have health insurance and need medicaid, for whatever reason in this tough economy, then "oh well, you are out of luck". My, my, my, what selfish people we in this nation have become. I wonder if any of you came into hard time would you want others to look down on you. Always remember, what goes around comes around, and anything can happen!!!
your wrong we are saying we all dont want to be in the same boat as this woman in which we will under obama care.You are heartless for wanting us all to suffer.
no, I am saying there are alot of people on this message board who feel as if people can't afford it, then tough. I am soo tired of the selfish society that we live in today. People only think of themselves. I wish that people would get together and start thinking of one another, maybe then we could get some things accomplished.
Sometimes people arnt good at expressing what thay mean.I think a lot of people are just saying they are against handouts. you are right though that there is a lot of misguided people.
Jenna, didn't you read the article? If the cost of doing business is more than you bring in, fold it up and go home. Let me know how you can afford to stay in business when your expenses are more than you bring in. Can you do that? Do your monthly expenses exceed your income? If so, how do you buy food, pay for Internet access, make house payments? Let me know how this trick works because I want to know the magical Leftie accounting scheme.
John, I did read the article, along with all the comments after it. I don't think that doctors should be run out of business because of this, but I also don't have the attitude that " I got mine, hopefully you will get yours". Everyone complains about the problem, but not enough people can sit down long enough to come with a solution. Soo many people just think about the effect of on themselves, instead of thinking of the common good. And as far as having monthly expenses exceed income, been there, done that, made sacrifices, and survived to get to a better place in life!!
Jenna = in many instances we have established relationships with our patients when they go on medicaid and it's not a happy moment for either party. Medicaid is some of the most cumbersome and tedious programs to administer through the office and in DENIALS. For the sake of simplicity, Imagine you are the doctor and the price you charge for a given service is ten dollars. After overhead (rent, salaries, malpractice, employee benefits,) you make net five dollars on the service via Blue Cross, Medicare, most pvt insurance. HMO pays you two dollars for the service. Medicaid pays you $1.10 for the service. Not only that - the forms and compliances they require COST you money due to their every increasing paper demands. To make matters worse - they routinely DENY you the pittance they DO pay based on a missing digit requring yet more staff just to run the MEDICAID forms. It's Medicaid the program which needs reform and review. We are not monsters or ogres but we DO when it's time to say UNCLE. We did NOT select medicine as our careers to LOSE Money and go bankrupt. Medicaid practices LOOSE MONEY and that is why you see them at federally funded health clinics NOT private groups practices. One is bouyed up by the government, the other is NOT and must fend for itself. Would you go to a restaurant and demand their finest meal be serve to you immedately for ten cents on the dollar? Would you go to the most elegant salon and ask for services (cut, color, manicure, facial and massage) for pennies on the dollar? Right now or else? Of course you wouldn't. But that is what Medicaid has become and THAT IS WHY the best surgeon will not accept it. We are not gorgon's and lots of us do probono work. That is our choice - and not a government mandate. Please study the healthcare initiative a bit more in depth so you can understand the facts in this country. Do you know which segment of society, is GUARANTEED HEALTH CARE..? GUARANTEED? PRISONERS. That is correct - under the 8th Amendment - *which needs reform in many ways" Inmates in jail are ENTITLED to complete medical care.which has even amounted to electrolysis for prisoners undergoing sex change surgery. Why don't we march to alter THOSE laws????? HMMMM? THAT is a total waste of taxpayer$$$$$
buche- well stated as always!
It's already started, hasn't it? Medicare sucks and it is going to get a lot worse, folks.
opto - why not ideal, I have never seen in nearly thirty years of professional medicine ANY PATIENT, rich or poor say to me, "....I am going to disenroll from Medicare because it stinks..." everyone who qualified for it takes it - even if it is a secondary payor. So I must say that while MDCRE is flawed, most seniors are anxious to get it and once covered by it - stay that way until they die.
but mostly because they paid for the privilege
amen - as those currently enrolling (leading edge of baby boom) have also paid.
Getting the government more involved in health care is wrong other than trying to reduce cost such as frivalous lawsuits. Blue cross does a good job and there is no reason to take away our quality health care so that people who dont work can have some lousy form of health care. Im not against helping the poor but they should be kept in a separate program from those who have earned quality care. Keep our insurance private so we who have paid dont have to suffer as well. If this sounds cold there is no perfect system and what we have now is better than a government run system.
And Congress should have the same program as we mere mortals as well.
No one is going to run your system. What do you not understand about this?!
So, "YOU" are a BETTER human Being sooooo... "YOU" get the Good health Care and the "Lesser" human beings get what's Left ???? As in " LET THEME EAT CAKE ???? " Is THAT what you mean to say ???
I am not better and i am self employed so i pay for my own health care.Im saying when there is only so much money to go around the people who have paid premiums either though employee coverage or on thier own should get what they payed for. If your in the government program you have to take what they give you.
Again, if you have your sacred overpriced Blue Cross, you get to keep it in all its glory!
As touching as these and similar stories are, the answer can't always be taxing the better off to pay for the problems of those who are, for whatever reasons, without the means of taking care of themselves. The principle of limits applies here.
Obama is going to save us all! He's busy printing more money in the basement of the White House right now! In between campaign speeches of course!
PRESIDENT OBAMA !!!! doesn't that just HURT you ???? It will feel worse when you realize he is fast becoming one of the most SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENTS THE NATION EVER SAW. RIGHT after the WORSE president this nation ever saw. Republicans: WHITE'ED SEPULCERSD ... ALL !!!
Ed..................You don't get out much, do you?
Nor do you make any sense. How has he been successful? Name me one thing he has done that has been a success/
iF YOU CAN'T FIND OUT ABOUT HIS SUCCESSES, well, I guess you're just not looking. And as far as trying a type of insulf about me getting out, You wouldn't believe if you were here anyway. You seem to be someone who thinks they're a medical doctor but are actually just an Optome---- opps ! just saw your handle sorry.... ROFLMAO....
Ed obviously you live in a bubble, his poll numbers are falling to rock bottom numbers. All he will be is a one term Jimmy Carter. You need to grow up and stop wanting others to take care of you and take care of yourself.
Ed...............Okay, since I am not looking, why don't you inform me??????? I;m waiting.
While I have not got the answer to what's wrong in the US in our health care system, we must be fair to the president because he has always said: IF you have insurance which you have purchased and you 'like', you'll keep it and no one will interfere or ask you to change. WE ALREADY PAY for indigient CARE via MEDICAID and by making it difficult for poor women to get abortions when thy need them or can't afford the pregnancy. When we say NO ABORTIONS for the poor - we cannot then say BUT NO FREE HEALTH CARE FOR THEM because we can't have it both ways. Let's face it - we are already paying and will continue to pay because that is a democracy. We must 'help the poor'. If we can't help them by agreeing that we'll pick up the tab for their unwanted preganancies - then we'll be paying for that 'welfare baby' for at least 18 years. WIC, MEDICAID, FOOD Stamps, section 8 housing, head start, magnet schools, tax credits, free breakfast, free lunch (really DOES exist), school entitlements for mentally disadvantaged kids, poor kids, kids with no one at home to love them, or help with homework, afternoon care/after care - everyone cares for these kids except their mothers and fathers. Why should they? Ask yourself these questions and then come up with the answers. Send them all to 'orphan missions'? Boys Town? Catholic Charities? Throw away kids wanted by no one become the wreckage of humanity as older citizens....mentally ill homeless? Group home schizophrenics? Adult mentally retarded? Who claims them? Who wants them? Who cares for them? Most families have all they can DO to raise their own children and give them a decent roof over their heads with BOTH mom and dad working full time......Ladies and gents - Americans must decide what they really want and then (this is the hard part) - be willing to work very, very hard for it. There is NO payoff without work. Not really. Let's decide what legacy we wish to leave our children and I do not only mean $$$$$$. Our core values must be more than a Religious chant about who's God is better or who'se religious is 'true'. Charities now suffer 'donor fatigue' because we've given and given and given and it's never enough. It will never be enough - history WILL repeat itself and we'll find ourselves living in 19th Century Dickensian pox-infesting rabbit warrens eventually where the Rich will be richer and the poor will get poorer and the middle class will cease to exist. THAT will be the end of civilization because FICA tax RUNS this country. If fewer work - the assets dry up and the more who clamor for cash at the bank doors mean fewer laboring at the . Well, long night on call - done at last, home to bed and sorry for the long rant with stream of consciousness images. There is a VERY thin veneer between our 'civilization' and savage 'every man for himself' survivial tactics. I pray we never have to see this come to fruition. We must help our fellow man - but not infantilize him. And remember - a LARGE middle class is a healthy indicator of societal health. When the middle class goes away, becomes smaller it's a red flag for national health......we must stop begging and whining but still should expect a measure of compassion from one another. The biggest growth industry I observe these days is: HATE. HATE IS on the rise everywhere and is robustly fed with our ability to find differences among groups via ethnicity, religion and political party. Lets find the commonalities for a change. Perhaps some day we'll find that we're all very similar and when the census pages come around we'll need to declare not race of origin but simply denote ourselves as citizens of "E-A-R-T-H".
Wouldn't THAT be something?
great rant- go to sleep!!
The bill as it is written now is only to get it passed and then they have said they will modify it further to get a government takeover of healthcare.
Everybody expects the govmt. to fix all these problems... social security , medicare, medicaid,wefare, healthcare, banking,insurance co's,un-employment .They can't fix any of it.. they are the people that caused all the problems in the first place .We have all these problems today because the federal govmt. let it get this way. look at what they are trying to do today with healthcare.. This is what they have been doing for 50 years, doing what they want and not what the people want. They are not serving us well..It's really too bad they justdon't get it !!!
Social Security was fixed. It was working fine until LBJ, ol'Jimmy and Billy Bob decided it was their personal trust funds.
opto - good point. Those guys were our own Jimmy Hoffa to the pension fund of SS. It's less easy to raid now - but bad guys in office are always tempted to get their hands on THAT till.