Why risk it to treat a SYMPTOM? High cholesterol is a symptom not a primary cause, even using these drugs to lower it has virtually no effect on overall life quality or length.

Amazing that pharmaceuticals aimed at treating a symptom frequently come with warnings about causing several others.

What's the point?

I understand now why our president wasn't prescribed a cholesterol lowering drug when they diagnosed him last month with high cholesterol. I believe now that they really are trying to get rid of the peons by poisoning us. I will now quit taking this drug even though I am only on a 20 mg dose. Eat right and just move it as the commercial says. We are part of the natural process on this planet earth so shouldn't we be relying on natural things and not man made remedies to relieve all our ills?

High cholesterol is usually just an indicator that your body is not in good health, it is caused by inflammation/damage to your blood vessels from high blood pressure/too much sodium/etc. The body actually creates the majority of the cholesterol in the body, food has very little to do with blood levels of it, and genetics also play a part in the ratios of 'good' and 'bad' forms of it. Cholesterol is often raised by the body as a way to combat the damage to the blood vessels, a lot of which is caused by our poor diets of high sodium low potassium foods and sedentary lifestyles. If you fix the cause, cholesterol will take care of itself naturally.

Actually, most high or low cholesterol is caused by genetics. The current thinking is that viruses once thought to be benign, such as CMV, cause inflammation in arteries and that people with high LDL start getting deposits at the inflammation sites because they are roughened instead of smooth. Eventually these deposits grow large enough that they break loose and cause stroke or heart attack.

But HDL seems to smooth out the rough patches in arteries, so it is a "good" cholesterol and too low a number is a bad thing.

Then there is considerable research that is saying that LDL is not a single type of cholesterol, but 6-8 different types, pretty much based on relative density. And apparently within these types of LDL, some appear to be "good" and some appear to be "bad."

Medicine had been trying to get this down to a couple of numbers --- LDL and HDL:LDL ratio to fit in with the one-size-pill fits all philosophy of pharmaceutical companies. What is emerging is a picture of cholesterol that is thousands of times more complicated than your family physician was taught in med school. And to make it worse, there are no practical tests for determining the relative densities of LDL at this point. So stay tuned for changes in the whole scenario over the next couple of years.

But at this point there is good evidence that, even with the risks, statins do a pretty good job of reducing plaque buildup and therefore reducing heart attacks and strokes. I am 66 and my dad died at 37 from a massive heart attack. I have very low HDL which is typically hereditary. Statins lower LDL, but they also raise HDL a little. So I will stay with my statins.

There are two problems that the article did not address, however:

1) the data on muscle damage came from grad students "mining" clinical data that was suppressed by the drug company during clinical trials. The FDA allows this --- the drug companies can cherrypick which clinical data they wish to use to support their application and which they do not. This is often (but not always) used to suppress adverse data. Now you have a lot of grad students and post-docs going back into the total data (including that suppressed by the drug companies) and looking for adverse side effects (and good side effects as well --- statins appear to reduce the risk of colon cancer, for example). They are finding a lot of effects that are both statistically significant and previously unseen. Lawyers are watching all this very, very carefully.

2) Physicians simply do not spend enough time with patients. When a patient is started on statins a physician is behooved to explain the way the drug works and to explain the possible side effects and what to watch for. Instead, the physician only has enough time to say, "Here, take this." and order a liver panel. Physicians argue that they don't want to trigger the "nocebo effect" where a patient told of side effects, manifests many of them as a result. (There is no scientific literature to support this reasoning.) Mostly, physicians want to see as many patients as possible ---- it's about income, mostly.

Anyone already on statins deciding to quit taking them should do so in a slow, weaning process unless there are compelling reasons otherwise. Abruptly quitting statins can cause a rebound effect sufficient to clog an artery in some cases. There is considerable evidence for this from New Zealand where a bureaucratic glitch deprived many patients temporarily of their drugs. There is also considerable evidence that even without elevated liver enzymes, statins in some individuals can cause muscle damage, kidney damage and neurological damage. There is also controversy regarding statins and cancer, especially with Lipitor.

That's what you should do - talk to you doctor and if the side effects outweigh the benefit opt for a different med or something different.

All meds - even tylenol - have side effects.

Thank You Summer. Yes, the FDA last yr. reduced the maximum safe dosages of Tylenol-aka acetaminophen from 4 Grams ( on the label ) to 3 Grams ( 3,000 mg.) I think it was also causing liver damage.

I do know, as a retired nurse, that statin drugs have done wonders for many people. Double Blind studies with placebos have proved that the lipid levels have been lowered. And there's a direct connection between fats & heart attacks and/or blood clots. I've noticed antedotally that there have been more poeple living longer with the advent of many new meds over the last 30 yrs. & how people having heart attacks or strokes don't have as many reoccurances after beginning taking a statin drug.

V. Bevis - You're welcome, and good points. All meds are really a balance between symptoms of what is being treated and the side effects of the med. Some meds have less side effects, some have tremendous side effects. The warnings help patients and physicians determine what is best for them.

V. Bevis,

There is not a "direct connection" between taking statins and heart attacks and strokes. There is a "surrogate connection." These two are often confused. In a direct connection a~b. In a surrogate connection a~c~b. In this case we know that low overall lipids are associated with fewer heart attacks and strokes. We also know that statins lower lipids. These are both direct connections. But we ASSUME that statins lower heart attacks/strokes. This is a surrogate connection.

It is important that people know the difference when the research on lipids is currently showing it to be a hugely more complicated interaction than previously thought. And we still do not definitively know why some people with very high lipids do not seem to risk plaques and some with very low numbers get them.

This is likely to be a changing situation with both lab tests and drugs for a very long time to come.

But you just take the best evidence that you have today and go with it. If tomorrow's story is different, then you change to the new best. You are not assured of being right, but you are assured that you are abiding by the best available evidence at the moment.

It's Obama's fault.Impeach him.

Drug Companies are "known" to hide "facts" and results for money...da

Omama should of known this 20years ago it's his fault.

Omama?

I thoght this was a forum about the Statin issues instead of about trying to curse each other.

what's that got to do with this subject? The constant addition of Obama/Bush/Cheny to everything ruins the sites for everyone. Why don't Gary & Kerry take their personal issues with each other someplace else. Sounds like you both are unhappy people; or you get your kicks by sounding so ugly. creeps.

Jessie,

Looks like you need to take another med so you can sing kum bi yah. Or better yet go ask a the FDA what med you can take to ignore people that are everywhere around you that are not taking any societal push for any FDA drug, just to be in harmony with YOUR center.

These forums are not just for band wagoners, lovers of the FDA or those with an authoritarian mentality. (Mao lovers)

I thank you for showing how not everyone is on medication or needs them prescribed for living.

Make your choice, Kerry. Take drugs or don't; no one is holding a gun to your head!

So articles like this is meant to make those who follow a prescription for living at the hands of those who trust agencies like the FDA? No wonder there are so many health problems with people

I make my choice every day not to get suckered into a dependency that it seems a lot of people in here have made.

I do not blame the FDA because I expect nothing more then what they are guilty of, it is how ever the individuals fault for falling ill after succumbing to the problems that stem from relying on agencies or science for telling people how to live and suffer just because there are sheeple.

Sorry V. but I am not going to console anyone who is affected by what can be considered blind devotion. People deserve what the seek.

I do not need the advise from the so called "professionals" to direct me how to live. I will however wait for the articles like this one that will cement more of my beliefs that the professionals are not always as smart as they profess.

Or death. That does not bother you?

I came here for some laughs and I have not been disappointed.

Kind of making sense why I'm not seeing any muscle mass from workouts...

MM,

I have been on 80 mg of Simvastatin for 2 years and my total cholesterol is very good. I have had no muscle problems or kidney problems and I get a blood test every 6 months.

For me the KNOWN risk was high cholesterol and the muscle and kidney problems that could possibly present are the UNKNOWN risk. My doc explained that the actual condition has to be treated and the possible ones monitored.

I definitely want to avoid a heart attach or stroke. He watches the blood tests and check my heart every year.

Talk to your doctor about your concerns. Ask HIS/HER opinion on what they've seen, read or heard about it or any drug you become concerned with in the future.

It's been my experience that the reason most people are sick all the time is because EVERYBODY IS FAT AND NOBODY EXERCISES.No wonder health care in this counrty is a nightmare.Americans are probably the dumbest people on the planet. And no probably here, the fatest.

Wait around long enough and you will hear of a study or evidence that links genetics to the fact that you get sick from statins. LMAO!

What a bizarre comment to make that everyone here is fat and nobody exercises.. I'm pretty sure we're probably quite an electic mix. Fat, thin, average, athetic, active, couch potato, maybe even an anorexic or two thrown in for good measure. What does that have to do with this article? There are way too many people taking way too many drugs and they are trusting that these drugs are safe when in fact a large majority of them have some horrendous side effects. Some we know about and some that are conveniently swept under the carpet because the FDA and Big Pharma are in cahoots. Uncle Sam is probably in on it too... hmmn let's see these drugs will shorten the average lifespan about 8 yrs .. that's alot of SS money saved...

I've been going to the gym for just short of 4 years. 7 days a week the first year witrh a gradual decrease over time to where it's nor 4-5 times a week. I have been taking zocor the entire time- 20 mg. My Doctor does blood work every 3-4 months to check for any negative signs. Nothing yet. My chloresterol is just over 100- my LDL

has been as low as 68 but 70-80 is common. I don't feel any better though. I also take 4 meds for hyper tension.

I know i would feel much better if i took no meds but i have a history of heart problems on both sides of my family and I've had a mini-stroke (4 years ago) and a TIA about 2 years ago. It's a tough decision. I would not increase the statin level- there are other studies showing no benefit to Zocor but it's hard to ignore the good numbers.

i agree.

you're an idiot.

Gary keep looking in the mirror.

The reason more deadly drugs and vaccines bypass the safety issue is the bigger the bribe.

Kerry, bad news. You're still an idiot.Besides,shouldn't you be over at the Fox News(LOL) site?

I like checking out where the lower life forms live because they are the ones poisoning life.

Where is my crap scraper? I just stepped in another one.

Kerry, here's what you get in the land of the idiots. I'm out doing my daily 6 mile run on Monday.I've done it for 42 years.Never skip a day. A guy with a cigarette comes over and what does he say to me as I'm going past him? He says,"Hey buddy,can I ask you something? Why are you doing that?" Was that you, Kerry. Only in America , the land of the 200 lb butts.

LMAO! What difference does your idiosyncrasies have to do with a society dependent on FDA to tell them what they should or should not take?

Once again, you ran right on by and ASS U ME d I smoke, sorry. I believe in natural health, not a prescribed one.

Are you 42 or did you run from the time you came out of the womb Gary?

As much as I wish it weren't so, I have a real ****** for the drug companies & their "ethics " or what passes for them. I did a little research on a drug once ( G.I. problems-GERD) & found out that the drug was ONE MOLECULE different from an OTC drug that was infinately cheaper. When I confronted the drug rep about it, you should have seen the look in his eyes. And then he admitted I was correct.

We all have to be our own "keepers" when it comes to our eehalth.

Where is your pocket mirror? Are you not a person too?

I'm not, Gary. I have an M.S. in Nursing. And where did you say you went to Med. School?

So what you are saying is you have found your place here? Birds of a feather, flock together.

Gary,

Are you obese?

5'6'' 135 lbs

gary,

Did you include the weight of the chip on your shoulder?

Tried to correct & then delete this post, but my PC must be on some type of drug!!

To put it in a nutshell what I am trying to say is --stop using/taking drugs to correct bad habits. There are times when taking a medication is necessary and life saving, but that is the only time we should be taking them.

Follow the guidelines that have been around for years--follow a healthy diet and exercise daily. Male it part of your life and not a chore.

Our health care costs are out of sight because we don't follow the guildelines that have been around for years. Of course there are exceptions, but these exceptions are the only ones where medication is needed and health costs are expected.

I apologize for my long and poorly presented previous tirade, but I just get so frustrated and passionate that our society continues to push meds to correct bad habits and then wonder why we have a drug abuse problem. Grrrrrrr.

J.C.

I am not a lb. overweight but I take 80 mg of Simvastatin a day. I also excercise. The hypercholesterimia is heridary in both sides of my family. Of course, I watch what I eat as the drug is correcting or coping with a genetic defect that I have. I also take generic Voltaren for osteoarthritis.

I get blood tests every 6 months and asked is I have muscle aches or urinary problems.

J.C. I am glad that you mentioned that the body MAKES cholesterol. And some, like you, have an unfortunate predisposition towards it. But talk about "side" effects, I can hardly believe you are not having any on Voltaren. It is one of the worst side-effects drugs I know of-1st. hand experience also speaking here. It can really tear-up your stomach, so please get all the info. on side effects on it & be careful using it long-term. I get better results on ibuprophen. Good Luck!

JC,

I take Crestor daily. I have done considerable reading on the subject and try to stay up. (My wife is a PhD researcher, so I use her accounts to read the actual papers that some of these articles are based on.) Most of what is going on has the most to do with your genes. I guess I should shoot my Dad, but he died at 37 from a heart attack.

I am not overweight. I watch what I eat pretty closely. I am not a fanatic, but avoid too much fatty foods, seldom eat in fast food restaurants, and just prefer less salty food by nature. I get plenty of real exercise --- mostly yard work with a 2-acre front yard. I spent most of the day yesterday digging flower beds with a pick and the pr3evious day raking live oak leaves. (Not bad considering I had a knee replacement in December.) But in the end, I just take my meds and hope that I am doing the best things I can to keep healthy.

If you take all the NFL linemen and test their cholesterol, you will come up with the opposite conclusion than their true overall health. We just don't know as much as we think we do.

The medical society has been moving more and more towards prevention for years. In fact, the DO's have always emphasized preventative care, more so than MD's - though MD's are promoting it more and more. DO's aren't as prevalent as MD's - but we actually have more credit hours in school and our education and boards have been shown to be equivalent to that of MD's.

You mean we should be proactive instead of reactive--how UnAmerican that is. :).

Pat - you mean Bush-care? In Aug 2008 we were getting the direct benefits of 8 years of Repb. health care. In 8 years you can use Obamacare as an excuse.

p.s. how was that working? We are #37 in the World for health care. I had no complaints - I got an annual physical at Mayo but the other 99% of the population got zip. I was one of the folks who said we have the best health care in the world!! We do but only 1% get it.

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Jessie. I've tried to explain this to relatives in another 1st. world country & they look at me like I'm crazy. When they ask me how do we figure all this out, I tell 'em that we don't. It's a Charlie Foxtrot (military term that seems most appropiate here-C.F.) lol

"Soylent Green" is PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your nerve damage could be diabetic neuropathy, not statins.

You make a very good point - people on statins need to remember to have their blood work done regularly. It might make a huge difference in whether they experience the really bad side effects or not. It could catch the side effects creeping up before really noticeable.

Another excellent point. :-)