Absolutely the way to go right now until the over-population problem is resolved. Several years ago,we adopted our German shepherd online from German shepherd rescue. Not to be prejudiced or anything, but she is the most beautiful German shepherd in the entire world--and the most skilled ballplayer to boot. She's a champ. I highly recommend rescue, even if you demand a specific breed.

When I lived in the states I bought a Pomeranian pup for an old girl friend of mine. Within two days it died. I later found out that this store like many others sold sick pups usually from a puppy mill. Not to mention the legalities to get my money back (I eventually walked into the store with the dead pup and wouldnt leave till I had a 1200.00 refund) but it was very upsetting to the girl I gave the pup to.

now in China and if you look at my Avatar is a pup I bought here. Not only did I meet the owners but also saw the sire and dame (b*tch). Here the pups are sold in a large open area where the breeders come to sell dogs. Really a good experience and the only b*tch here were my new pups mom, not like in the states where the owners of the store was the b*tch , when trying to get my money back

Area 52- shelters are not all bad. The ones around where I live work feverishly to place dogs and cats. If not in permenat homes then in foster homes also till they find a new home. The shelter has a huge yard and kennels for the dogs to run and exercise. The cats are in larger cages to move around. they work very hard to get the animals into new homes fast. And Yes money is a factor, it takes money to run shelters. I try to make a donation of food or litter each week if possible to help out. They take the time to get to know the animals to make sure they go to homes that will suit the animal to the owner. There are also other animal networks that work with shelters and people who can no longer keep there pets and have them placed. These people are highly respected for all of the hard work they do to help these animals. I have 3 cats of my own that came from a home that could no longer house them due to moving, I love them and they have been the best pets. And so for those of you who have never been to a shelter, don't knock it till you go. help out and bring in a donation of food or treats. These animals need a good home. And another thing to keep in mind is not all of the animals in the shelter have been abused. Most come from loving homes where the owners can no longer afford to keep them due to the economy and loosing there jobs and homes. My friend is adopting a boxer who came from a family who could no longer care due to them selling there home and moving into an apartment because of money. She is a great dog and and my friend is greatful to have her.

I volunteer at a no-kill shelter in Elmsford, NY.

We get animals from all over the country, currently we have about 300 dogs & over 400 cats. About 80% of our dogs are Pit Bull mixes. Some live here for YEARS.

Funding is a HUGE part of any lack of care. People that refuse to spay/neuter their animals is another. At least if you adopt from a shelter, it's already been done.

I'm so happy that this is being done. People confuse animals with toys/accessories. They are living things! People buy chicks/bunnies at Easter for their kids, then they get dumped at shelters 2 months later. They also give pups, cats, ferrets as gifts--not always the best idea. Animals need care-feeding, walking, grooming & TRAINING! Pups get dumped off because they chew things or pee on the floor. That's what they DO! They need to be trained!

Anyway, there are some great rescue groups all over the U.S., many have purebreeds. If you want a small purebreed & realize that they are not an accessory and will need love and actual care, here's a great place to start: http://www.stfbr.org/

If you really want to make a difference & save a life, and understand the horrors that puppymills create, go here: http://dogsindanger.com/

A little education can make a big difference. If you can't adopt, you can also foster or volunteer at many organizations. You personally can make a difference.

Why not punish the people with the "mills" and "factories" instead of the stores selling animals? Or the poeple mistreating the animals? Ah what ever close em down. While your are at it close down liquor stores, smoking shops, Wal mart for selling non organic foods..........

This is the best thing since sliced bread and I do not like Government control. Throughout my lifetime I have always bought dogs directly through reputable breeders. My dogs , (who have all been companion dogs) have been excellent! Going forward, I will never again buy direct from a breeder and discourage any parent who just wants to show their kids about having puppies to stop! We have way too many loving dogs in shelters and in rescue. I am positive that my next dog will be rescue. I just started volunteering for PetSmart adoptions here and there and it breaks my heart to see all these beautiful dogs needing homes.

The best option would be a tax on pet sales instead of a ban.

The revenue could be used to provide free spaying or neuterings, or to fund animal shelters/adoptions.

Our family had 3 purebred Shelties. They came directly from the breeders.

But my Australian cattle dog mix from the shelter could literally run circles around them (physically and mentally). She could jump over them to catch a frisbee. And she only barked at people who were walking down the street. My neighbors have a home business behind their house and she didn't bark at any of their numerous clients when they walked back there.

Obviously, if you raise the price (or make it more difficult) to buy a pet from a pet store, less animals will be produced by puppy mills. We have an oversupply of animals. You either kill the ones that are here, or prevent the production of too many new ones.

I also believe that the pet stores encourage the impulse buy of pets. It's not exactly the same as a regular impulse buy, but still it encourages alot of unwanted animals.

So now we got "pet nazis" that are forcing people to adopt animals they otherwise didn't want. What is wrong with you people? I understand there is an overpopulation problem, but that doesn't mean stepping on the rights of others to force them into buying a pet they don't really want. This is a violation of consumer rights and I believe the states and cities in-acting this should be sued big time. Just because some places buy from puppy mills doesn't mean they are all buying from puppy mills. Unless you actually catch a store buying from a puppy mill, then the government has nothing to stand on. All the businesses affected should get together and sue their local governments.

Additionally, you all piss and moan about puppy mills...if people don't buy those puppys, what happens to the puppys? Tell me you friggin' Einsteins!

I just bought a dog online and she was shipped to us via American Airlines. She is great and was given an A+ on her health by my veterinarian of 13 years. She was also competitively priced to dogs at our local pet stores here in Fort Lauderdale, FL even with the shipping included. In fact, puppies have to be checked and certified by a veterinarian to fly within 10 days of shipping . If you live in one of these places where they are banning the sale of dogs, then order your dog online. Don't let the socialist scum bags tell you what you can and can't buy or do. If you don't care where your dog comes from, by all means adopt from an animal shelter, but nobody and no government has the right to tell you that you can't buy a dog from a store or a breeder if that is what you want to do.

This "killing the disease by killing the patient" socialist attitude is just crazy and a violation of your rights. Demand the people who made this decision step down and if the don't vote them out!

Area52: I don't understand your post, and I'm not a card carrying SEIU member or a fan of government control. I don't know where you live, but many shelters are run by non-profit, non-governmental agencies. I realize that many shelters, both government run and non-government run, are understaffed. Perhaps you should volunteer your effort and time to a local shelter in your area.

Bloggerich - The thing is that in a large city like Houston, over 1 MILLION pets are "put down" a year.

There is no shortage of potential pets for the consumer.

In fact, there is over supply.

If you don't understand that taking the financial incentive out of producing more dogs will result in less supply, then I can't help you.

I've no time to teach supply and demand (you should have learned in high school economics).

But when people don't buy something, the production of that thing falls.

The easy, impulse buys of pets at petstores increases the overall supply of animals. It would be OK if we didn't have to kill the excess "stock".

Bloggerich: I'm no socialist, but I totally disagree with your post. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, but you need to understand that you are promoting an industry that is responsible for enormous cruelty and the death of thousands and thousands of innocent animals. You need to read more about it and the people who operate and profit from the misery of puppy mills.

what...the outrage didn't bother them.

Off with their heads !

Just bustin on the topic...I'm sure it has merit, but what doesn't. One could easily argue we should miminize pet ownership and try spending the money on reducing human misery.

I'm originally from Missouri. Puppy mills there have been operating for years and they were a cruel and inexcusable disgrace back then. If the Agriculture Department is the entity overseeing the conditions at these mills, they have not been doing their job for years.

There should be a national ban on these canine concentration camps. I have taken in rescue dogs for years and you wouldn't believe some of the conditions you come up against, many so bad that I keep the dogs rather than put them through the trauma of being sent to yet another place and the cost of the medical attention they need. Is it expensive, yes. Is it worth it, yes. The only decent way to get a dog now is through reputable shelters and the many rescue organizations that operate in the US. Will you get a perfect dog, many times, no. Can it be expensive, yes. But, if the government won't act to put a stop to this horror, cutting out the middle man (the pet stores) is the only way to financially hurt the puppy mills.

If you want to pay hundreds of dollars for a puppy, before purchase, ask for the origins of the dog and check it out. Many rescue groups are now going to dog auctions and buying puppy mill dogs. It's not the best solution but at least it's saving a few.

Until people demand that the DOA raise their standards on how these animals should be kept this problem will go on. Personally, I have no problem with cutting the money these puppy mill owners make. Not when they shoot or club dogs that can no longer breed or drown puppies born with birth defects from over breeding. The day they die is the first time they have ever been out of filthy, over crowded cages and had the grass under their feet. As far as I'm concerned, the farmers involved in this puppy mill horror can go plant corn. The others can go bankrupt.

I'm glad pet stores are on their way out. PETCO I don't mind because their people know what they are doing. Years back, you could buy pets at places like KMART and other similar places. They would have to send in somebody early to dispose of animals that had died overnight or over the weekend. The people who "managed" those places were the same people who ask you if you want fries with that. Go to a shelter and save a dog/cats life. Expensive dogs can be very beautiful, and certain dogs are excellent "tools" like search and rescue dogs, or sheep herders like border collies. Do you really need to have the same dog as Paris Hilton? Nah, not really.

Offering an opposing view to most posters here, I bought my beautiful purebred bulldog from a pet store in a mall. She is now going on six years old and I have had no problems, health or psycho. She is the most lovable and absolutely the best dog I've ever had. The srore even gave an iron-clad health guarantee for the first year. Woof, woof from Littleton, CO.

DenverYo, so your puppy got lucky, and five died in her place...and this is somehow a good story.

I wish it was done all over under a federal law!!!

Where are our representatives???

California one of the most liberal place in America ,where are you politically correct liberals when you need to do something to stop this mill trend of cruelty and greed !!!

The smartest dog I ever had was a mutt.

Well if I cannot find the kind of dog I want at a shelter, I will buy it some place else. Not going to get a dog I do not want, to make people happy.

Are you people kidding me??? Im sick of the Government intrusions this is B.S. and absolutely Illegal!!!! Law suit!!! The only problem I have ever had with pet stores was their prices. I just saw a video of people beating and stabbing cows at a butcher shop why havent we outlawed the sale of beef chicken and pork? Those animals are specifically raised to be slaughtered for our food and we can live on vegetation just fine!!! Before you go running your mouth about me being a vegan..IM NOT!!! I love eating meat Im just making a point. This is rediculous what is it going to take for us as THE PEOPLE to stand up and defend our rights? So what if YOU dont like people to sell puppies its not YOUR place to tell someone they cant sell them. If YOU dont like it DONT buy one dont even go to the pet store. Let me tell you this I "donated"(puchased) 2 kittens from am Animal shelter they were both sick even though I was told they were fine one Nearly Died the other on DID DIE. So Animal shelters are just as bad as pet stores as far as taking care of their animals. The only difference is that Animal shelters are usually run by the state or County(government) and they get an alotted budget to take care of their animals on top of the "donation" you give them to adopt the pet. This is clearly a case of Government takeover of the Pet industry since theres obviously money in it. Government already owns the land, they own the airlines, the car companies, liquor stores, Hospitals and clinics now, schools, and roads. They take 30% or more of your paychecks and they continually try to tell you what where and when you can do something. WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH???

This is directed at Bloggerich: I don't get what you are so upset about. First of all, no one is "forced" into anything. Get a pet, don't get a pet, that is a choice. Secondly, there are lots of reputable breeders where you can buy any kind of dog you want. No one is talking about shutting down breeders or "forcing" anyone into rescuing a pet from the shelter.

Pet stores have enjoyed the ability to buy relatively cheap dogs from inhumane puppy mills and sell them for a profit. Buyers have no way to see where their dog came from or who sired it. Puppies from puppy mills are viewed and treated as commodities, not living things. The vast amount of dogs sold in pet stores come from puppy mills. It is unfortunate that the smaller pet stores who sell dogs from reputable breeders are affected. My guess is that they are few and far between, however. When something isn't working, and a living creature is tormented in the process, it means you need to consider change. Change is inevitable in life. Those pet stores can focus on other types of pets, and pet supplies.

Lastly Bloggerich, you are all in a lather about your "consumer rights." This is about the grossly inhumane treatment of a living thing. Piss on your consumer rights!!!

Great move.

Well if I cannot find the kind of dog I want at a shelter, I will buy it some place else. Not going to get a dog I do not want, to make people happy.

No one is trying to make you get a dog you don't want. If you don't want a shelter dog, that's fine. But that doesn't mean you have to buy a puppy from a pet store, where the odds are very good the dogs come from a puppy mill (how else do you think these places make a profit?). Buy a dog from a reputable breeder, and you'll not only get the dog you want - you'll get a much better guarantee with the dog than you will if you buy at a pet store.

Our local Petco has both cats and dogs in the store - BUT they are from local shelters.

I agree with the ban on profiteers selling cats and dogs. I have had many firends stupidly buy "pure bred" (more like in-bred) animals versus adopting. I would have to lean towards the adopting rescue animals because the liklihood of the in-bred animals almost always will have some sort of genetic or functional issue. It's sad that we can afford to pay for the secret service to protect criminals like politicians but dont have resources to fund prevention of these animal mills.

I'm From Missouri, and we've been fighting this law. I have friends who run a breeding facility here, one of 11 in the whole state to have the "Blue Ribbon Rating". The doge there have better care, and better LIVING conditions than many HUMANS in this county!!! So the "Puppy Mill thing is a bogus overuse of a "buzz word".... try and "sue" a Puppy Mill". You CAN'T!! No legal definition exists! Just ENFORCE the laws already on the Books, and PUNISH the bad guys!! Funny thing I see is, Liberals love to do "feel good" laws (BANS mostly) yet never seek HARSH PENALTIES for the law breakers!!! If you don't make the crime NOT profitable, it won't stop!!!

Leave the LEGAL breeders and retailers alone, and SLAM the dirtbags!!!!! Enough of the "Government save me" routine already!!

you are all crazy to jump on this crazy train,shelters are charging as much for a mut as you will pay for pure breed dogs,we stopped at a shelter last year to get a dog and by the time they added all their fees it was 375.00 for a mix breed, no freakin way , you are all nutts and MOST shelters are run by county governments sure there are Private run shelters but they are few and far between and they want even more for their dogs, its all about money or their would not be any Private run shelters, dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining..

Yes, by all means, pass more laws. That always works. Good grief. And before all you feel-gooders go postal on me, I have a shelter dog and cat and they are both great pets and companions.

Well said, Hankster.

Missouri just passed new legislation which will overhaul the breeder business. The law is so detailed and crazy that pig, beef cattle, and chicken farmers MAY fall under these same new requirements. What will your eggs cost if the farmer has to place the chickens in an air conditioned building between May and September?

Anyone breeding *pets* should be limited in the number of breeding animals creating litters. Keep that number low enough so that a person can not live ONLY on breeding profits. Breeding pets as extra income would be easier for inspectors to control and for breeders to operate an animal friendly business.

When the pet shops close down, where will you buy a quality-made dog bed, good toys, a harness, a travel cage? Walmart, K-Mart, Target, Dollar General......yeah, right.

I think it's great, if people want a dog adopt! want a specific breed then go to the breader. I have two shelties that we rescued from people who had no idea what it involves to own a dog, they think they are turn key and should come with instructions!

usa1:

Not all Chinese pet stores are like that. I have personally seen quite a few of them during my time there and if they were in America, the ASPCA would have had a fit. You just happened to go to a reputable place, and the same holds true for places in America. If you were so dead-set on having a Pomeranian, you could have picked up a Dog Fancy magazine or gone on Google and found a reputable breeder in your area.

Bloggerrich- I have found another person who's Parents must have been cousins. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. This is to stop puppymills where dogs are shot and left layng, sometimes for days, to die because they don't want to waste another bullet. Petsmart is one of the biggest puopymill stores and I wouldn't buy an animal from them. To those who ask what happens to the animals if we close them down. They will most likely be slaughtered but it will be the final slaughter and not something to go on in continuence forever. I also think this should become a Fed. Gov. law and banned nationwide.

This is just another result of our failing economy. Pets are all cute and cuddly when the paychecks allow them but when things get bad Meow-Meow and Woof-Woof are the first to go.

People need to realizze pets are a RESPONSIBILITY not a toy that you can just throw out when you're bored with it.

My first puppy was a white poodle (toy), I found the ad in the city newspaper. When I got there I was appalled at the conditions, there were at least 30 dogs/puppys in cages stacked one on the other. The little one I picked out had never been out of her cage, she was six months old, I really didn't know if I was going to buy one at that time, but after seeing the conditions, I knew I couldn't leave with out taking at least one, wanted to take several, couldn't afford to, but at least I saved one. Over the last 50 years we have had several pets. We lived in the country, had plenty of space, not alot, but around 10 acres, at one time we had 7 kids (3 were hubby's and 4 were mine), 2 momma dogs (mutts) 12 puppies, 1 cat ,1 horse (that we rescued) and 2 hogs, they were pets, because after raising them, the kids all said that they would never be able to eat pork if we butchered them, 1 calf (600lbs. that we had bottle fed, and a little he-she goat. And at least a dozen hens & rooster Just about every kid in the area was always at our house too. All of my children have pets for their children. They are healthy, well fed, and well behaved animals. Pets are good company for children, the children learn how to take care, train, and learn to respect the animals. And the kids all stayed busy and out of trouble, not a one in any police trouble. After my husband passed away, I finally decided to get a little dog again, she is a maltese, bought her from a breeder that kept the dogs in their home, they were treated like pampered pets not just objects for sale. I wouldn't take a million dollars for my baby girl, she weighs 4lbs. and she is a year old now even sleeps with me, very good company for an old lady. It is about time puppy mills were outlawed. Pet stores will not go out of business, just change the way they do business. People will always need food, and other things for their pets. If some one wants to buy/rescue an animal, the store can direct them to breeders/ and or shelters!! If the shop directs you to good reputable breeders, you will more then likely go back for your pet supplies from them!!

BKLYNJ: You must be talking about Your parents since you obviously dont grasp the fact that banning pet stores from selling pets WILL NOT stop puppy mills. If you want to lose weight you dont ban the grocery store from selling food you go on a diet. If you want to stop puppy mills shut THEM down dont ban pet stores from selling pets.

Trying to say Petsmart supports puppy mills is the BIGGEST load of B.S. and an absolute lie.

Petsmart sells aminals from local shelters.

I know as a business owner and a Republican I should be against this invasion of government - but I think it is a great idea. All the dogs I have ever owned have been dogs that we have rescued (from the pound or someone who no longer wanted their pet).

Michele--

I'm with you! My adopted daughter bought a beagle puppy from an upscale mall pet shop in Scottsdale, AZ. She bought on impulse and thought she could lock him in an apt. for 12 hours a day. The pet shop wouldn't take him back after two days, when she realized the error of her decision. She paid $1300 dollars for this pup who had a limited registration in a hunting org. in the Midwest, no AKC registration.

As I was thinking of getting a dog, I took the dog for her. He is sweet, but no show dog. His legs are bowed, he is pigeon-toed, has too slender a frame and a pointed muzzle. Not very beaglish. In addition he had huge anxiety problems. I spent a year loving him and training him. He is now a lovely companion dog. To help with his separation anxiety I bought a female beagle pup from a supposedly reputable breeder. She had neurological problems and constantly attacked my male beagle, almost killing him. We re-homed her.

Then we got smart and rescued first, a female from animal control, then a male from an AZ beagle rescue group. The female had some abuse issues at first, but now all three get on famously and are therapy dogs at the local VA.

If you adopt from a rescue group, they keep their dogs in foster care, so you can get lots of info on the dogs. The also do home visits and checks so they do not have many revolving door dogs.

I am so impressed with our local rescue groups that I now occasionally foster, and handle rescued dogs at adoption events. Closing unscrupulous shops and mills is a big step forward.

I served as a rescue agent for a breed association for many years. I have seen the puppy mills and they are disgusting and heartbreaking. I tried to close some down but ended up finding out that it took a state law to get it done. I had no connections with the in crowd and could not get anything done but......

The AKC does nothing to stop these breeders. That is the best source to look for puppy mill operators. They know who these puppy mills are and still continue to allow them them to register for their meager price of $10.00 per puppy. If you multiply the millions of dogs from puppy mills by $10.00 you are look at 10's of millions of dollars to the AKC alone.

If we hit them from both ends.....at the point of registry and point of sale the middle man is out of business and bye, bye puppy mills.

All pet stores? So where are people going to go to get their kids pet hamsters and goldfish and turtles, or get birds, snakes, lizards, etc? Shutting down ALL pet stores isn't the solution. It seemes like the puppy mills are the problem here. If we regulate the puppy mills, the stores will have to look for alternate sources, like private breeders who, for the most part, put better time and energy and focus into making sure their animals are healthy. And while we bought our dog from a breeder, not everyone has the kind of money to do so if you're looking for a higher-end breed of dog if it suits your lifestyle (my fiance is allergic to dogs so we went got a tiny-toy poodle that runs circle around our roomie's Chihuahua.) Keep the pet-store option open and crack down on the mills. My family dog came from a shelter, my old roommate's dog was adopted from a shelter. I have nothing against them. The shelters in our area take a different cat or dog each week to the radio stations and go on air to talk about them, give the website links to be able to check them out online. Our community is head over heels for pets and animal adoption and animal rescuing an they reallty do their part to make sure the animals have a good quality of life while they wait for someone to adopt them.

catastic - They are not shutting down pet stores. Read the article.

They only block the sale of cats and dogs at that particular place (retail location).

You can still get the pet you want, just not cats or dogs at a retail location. And they can still sell all the expensive toys, foods, and accessories that the consumer wants.

Greta, I see two problems with your friend buying a dog. First she did an impulse buy. Second, she didn't realize what it actually means to care for a dog. I don't care where you get the dog. Locking it up for 12 hours a day is NOT good for the dog regardless of how well it's trained. In short, she made a stupid decision and expecting the pet store to give her her money back, unless they have a return policy, is even more stupid. I am glad though that you were able to take the dog rather then it ending up in some shelter somewhere. So many do.

Back in 1992 I bought a cat from the animal shelter here in san diego. she was a beautiful 3 year old himalayan (yes, lots of shedding in the spring, but that's ok). she was somewhat skittish around new people, but otherwise a good companion. she lived until she was 19 years old. If I do get a pet (kids have been asking about a dog) I do plan on going to the shelters first.

Blogerrich, so you think it's a god-given right to own, abuse, and harm animals? Someone just like you ran down a whole familyof geese at the local fuel stop. They believed they had the "right" because they were male, had a big honkin truck, and could. Hopefully one of these days those like you will pay dearly.

Kitty: shut up; that was the dumbest post Ive read in a long time and not because I disagree with you but because it was ignorant, steroetypical, and just mean spirited. Some man ran over some geese so now every man and anyone who has the opinion of bloggerich should pay dearly? Grow up!!

Greta: Have you ever seen a beagle before you recieved this one? I doubt it, since all beagles are short, bowlegged, and have pointy noses. Next your gonna complain because it has big ears and smells like a dog. You already admitted it was a good dog and the dog you got from the shelter has neurological problems. You completely disproved your position. I think the main thing your mad about is the lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills you were unable to instill in your step daughter.

I think most of you lack critical thinking skills since you dont undaerstand the harm you cause by allowing the Government to put a ban on such an absurd thing as selling puppies from store. Oh its ok to sell them from an animal shelter though even though most shelters are horrible foul smelling disease infested cells just barely big enough for and animal to fit in. Shelters can get away with leaving animals locked up all day urinating and deficating in their litle cell until is so full and nasty they have to come in and sprey them down with a hose and shovel out the feces. how many of you think a pet store would be able to sell an animal for $500-$1000+ dollars if they stunk and had feces all over them from wallowing in their own waste for days?? Dont try to tell me that what pet stores do got to petco or petsmart and show me the animal waste and dirty conditions in their building. I can prove all the conditions Ive just stated in many shelters in many cities. Never have I seen that in even what I thought were nasty pet stores.

Guito, you are missing the point. Of course the pet stores are clean and neat -- they wouldn't be able to sell the puppies if they weren't. But the mills where the puppies are born and raised BEFORE coming to the pet store are horrendous. The mothers have litter after litter after litter with no break and no veterinary care, their whole life is spent in cages having babies -- no human contact, no running or playing in the yard, just pure puppy machines. The mothers and fathers are vermin infested and have all kinds of health problems due to the lack of care and living in their own filth. Their feet are deformed because they spend their whole life in cages standing on wire. They are often in such deplorable physical condition that when animal control finally is able to gain access, many of the animals need to be humanely euthanized. Others need extensive help to be able to be adopted because they have had so little human contact, they are terrified of people. And because the parents are in such poor condition, the puppies are as well. The people running these puppy mills have no regard for the animals --their only motivation is money.

As to you comment about shelters, all the shelters that I have visited have been clean and well kept. There is a cadre of staff and volunteers that take very good care of the facility and the animals. However, I'm sure there are some shelters that don't meet this standard, but I would bet this wasn't because of greed (like the puppy mills) but rather some well-intentioned people who got overwhelmed. Plus those that are government run entities, they are subject to inspections and standards, unlike puppy mills.

As to your comment about beef, pork, and chicken, these facilities are subject to inspection by the USDA to ensure they meet the requirements for handling and processing such animals. Most puppy mills are not subject to inspection and will go to great lengths to prevent any type of inspection on their property. Because of this some states are starting to enact laws directed at ensuring breeders meet a minimum standards and allow for inspections.

Puppy mills are a real problem and I for one am encouraged that the laws are starting to address this horrible practice.

yeah, the Federal gov'ment does such a great job of enforcing its laws.

Greta that's a great story and it always is amzing how forgiving an animal is and how they can always find compassion in another person even after being abused.

These are city ordinances -- the feds aren't involved. There are probably just a handful of pet stores that these laws actually impact.

However, these local laws are a sign of things to come. If the pet stores are concerned about how these laws may eventually impact their bottom line, then they should be proactive now to ensure the puppies they offer for sale were born and raised by healthy parents in clean conditions with the appropriate health care, nutrition, and shelter. If pet stores would do that, and guarantee and prove their puppies don't come from puppy mills, maybe some of these breeders would clean up their act. The really bad ones would go out of business.

No kidding! That woman seems like the type that would ditch a dog in a heartbeat if she didn't get what she paid for -- like it was a designer purse or something. Completely misses the joy of having a dog in your life to begin with.

Viva la Mutts!

As a foster mom, I can relate to people wanting to know exactly what "baggage" the animal has. If someone wants to know about an animal before they get it, the best way to know that is by meeting the foster parent. I know exactly what issues my foster has. My current foster is a great, cuddly dog, but doesn't like cats, and can climb the fence. If you don't have cats, or live in an area where a loose dog isn't an issue, these last two issues are moot. If you have a cat or live in an area where the dog must stay in the yard, you look at another dog. It's that simple. Rescuing from an organization that has foster parents is the way to go.

It sounds like this woman is just trying to make excuses why she bought from a puppy mill.

But don't the dogs and cats in shelters come from mills after some well-meaning but uneducated person buys the animal either from the breeder or a pet shop, then causes more emotional damage to the animal because they do not know what they are doing and then dumps the critter off at the crowded, underfunded, understaffed animal shelter?

So the logic that says stop pet shops from offering dogs/cats because they come from mills.....should hold true for shelters as well. Don't let shelters sale dogs/cats and the mills will stop cranking out critters.

The pet store solution does nothing to address the REAL puppy mill/feline factory problem.

If the shelter has any dogs or cats that originally came from a mill it is because the person who abandoned the animal got it from a mill, not the shelter. The shelter, unlike the pet store that animal was purchased from, did not pay the puppy mill for the animal. That's a big difference. Shelter also probably has no knowledge where the animal was born, unlike the pet store.

The majority of shelters will also do a thorough evaluation of the dogs/cats before placing them for adoption -- such things as health, temperment, obedience, how well they get along with other animals. You'll often see where shelters will recommend that some dogs not go to homes with young children or with cats for example. Dogs/cats that are unsuitable for adoption are not offered, they are either euthanized or taken to a no-kill shelter. Reputable breeders also do these types of evaluations. When I got my youngest dog (purchased from a breeder) -- I drove 4 hours 1 way to pick her up and so I could see where she was born, her mother, talk to the breeder, etc), the breeder was able to tell me how the puppy I had chosen was on the timid side as part of her nature, how to work with her to overcome that, etc. When I got to the breeder's home, it was a beautiful spring day, and my puppy was out in the yard playing with the breeder's young daughter. When you buy from the pet store, it's a crap shoot -- no evaluations, no real health checks (I don't care what the paperwork says), and you have no idea if the puppy you are buying is coming from healthy parents and conditions. Plus the stores ENCOURAGE impulse buying without regard to where these animals are going -- which is why, later, so many wind up in shelters. I don't see the shelters adding to the problem at all -- if anything their resources are being used even more because of the puppy mills!

I agree 100%. There are a lot of wild animals which should not be sold in pet stores. The animals should have rights.

we eat animals and kill them for food.....cut off their heads and mutilate their bodies.....why do dogs and cats deserve better treatment because they are fuzzy and cute?....so then if your fuzzy and cute can you get certain protections...but if your not...or if you happen to be tasty on a sandwich, then so sorry for you.....off with your head!!!!.(i hear in some areas of the world dogs and cats are considered quite delicious on a bun) ...

....while i don't like puppy mills any more than anyone else......i don't see how banning pet stores from selling dogs and cats altogether is going to solve the issue.....why not just impose an ordinance that requires them to sell dogs that come from reputable breeders?...duh....why does there have to be an total ban?....seems to be "slightly" overzeloous.....and rescue shelter dogs are no better than pet store dogs....as they are just as likely to have been abused as one coming from a pet store.....but hey....lets just over react any way and blow the whole thing out of proportion for the heck of it without any objectivity or perspective at all,.....because we have nothing else to worry about in this world....its not like there arn't actual people starving and dying by the millions or anything.

Several years ago I saw an undercover expose from one of the news magazine-type shows. They followed a high-end dog boutique in manhattan to see the "reputable breeder" that the puppies came from.... You guessed it, from a puppy mill. The fact that Le Petit is tight-lipped on the puppy source is a red flag. There might be a legitimate reason for not providing the sources, but it's still worth questioning.

Thank you for stating that a reputable breeder would not consider selling a puppy to a pet store. I am probably opening myself up for a lot of comments here, but I am one of those reputable breeders.

I am a small home breeder and all of my dogs are in my home with me. They are kept in wonderful conditions, as testified to by my customers and my vet. They have beds, and toys, and pet doors to go outside whenever they want to a fenced-in yard. They get to feel the grass between their toes, snuggle in cozy beds, and are healthy and happy members of my family. Of course, I realize this is not normally the case.

I sell only to individuals and would never consider getting a USDA license required to sell to brokers or pet stores. READ the USDA guidelines, and you will find that many of their rules create the actual "puppy mills" you are complaining about. They require dogs to be kept on wire runs, in buildings 50 feet from your living quarters, and many more things. I am state licensed and have a retail sales tax permit to sell dirctly to the public.

I prefer to have people come to my home, meet the puppies and their parents, and see the conditions in which they are raised, but that is not always possible. I have puppies from the east coast to the west, and even in Canada. I am in the dreaded state of Missouri and just delivered a puppy to Massachusetts in my own car because she was too tiny to safely fly. The health and welfare of my babies is of the utmost importance.

It really bothers me that all breeders seem to be thrust into the category of "puppy mill", when there are many of us that are anything but. I think the easiest way to get rid of puppy mills is to limit the amount of breeding stock to say 10 or 15 females. I personally have 9. The large commercial kennels with 400-500 dogs obviously are there only to produce as many puppies as possible. How can they possibly produce well-adjusted, socialized puppies from a facility that large? I also attend dog auctions, mainly as a rescue mission. I but the dogs nobody else wants because they are no longer a good breeder, bring them home, clean them up, socialize them, and find them a good home. In most cases I place them for the cost of any veterinary care I had to provide, and sometimes I give them to a suitable home at no charge. I retire my females after 2 or 3 litters at about 6 years old and spay them before giving them away to a good home.

If you want a purebred puppy, do your research. Ask to visit the facility and see the parents. Or ask for a referral from someone that has seen the facility if you are too far away. There are quality home breeders out there. If everyone would concentrate on finding one before they purchase a puppy and not buy from the "puppy mills", they would soon be out of buisiness - and good riddance!

Zippety, thank you for your post. I wish there were more breeders out there whom are as compassionate as you. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I don't think the name "breeder" and "puppy mill operator" come even close to belonging in the same category! Breeders care about their animals - they work to improve the breed, they think about what sires and dames to use when wanting to produce a litter of puppies to help ensure the best outcome (healthy puppies!). They care about where the puppies go. When I got my puppy, she was perfectly healthy but her markings were outside of the breed standard so I had to sign a spay agreement - she is a miniature australian shepherd and she had some extra white on her. I had no trouble signing the agreement because I was looking for a pet. A week or so after I brought my puppy home, the breeder called me to see how she was doing and if everything was OK. To lump breeders and puppy mill operators in the same category is so wrong on so many levels.

Agreed, Shipup. You can't compare the two.

Bravo, the point I came on here to make: no reputable breeder would ever consider allowing their puppies/kittens to be sold in this fashion. I too am a small breeder. I have 7 dogs in my home, my 2 oldies who hold down the couch mostly, my retired foundation girl who I'm spaying this summer, two of her sons I am not breeding but kept them because they are great performance/working dogs, her daughter who also is a great performance dog and she will be my next generation for show/working/breeding, and then a son out of my foundation girl who I think will be a very nice show dog and already at a year of age shows great working promise. To keep my personal numbers smallish I have sold puppies on co-ownerships to other show homes. One of the conditions of the co-ownership is that I may breed to those dogs or get a puppy out of them in the future if I wish. Those dogs are in homes with small numbers and their owners are competing with them in shows, performance events, and working events. It's an ideal situation. It's important to a reputable breeder to keep their personal dogs at such a level that they get the attention they deserve. I have spent FAR more money on them than I've ever received breeding and I don't care: that isn't why I do it. It's preserving a historic breed and my dogs thoroughly enjoy the things we do or we don't do it. When one of my pups from my first litter was 18mos old and the people had a situation change he came back 'home' and when the perfect new owner came along I placed him. The dog is so happy! I have a lot of breeder friends and they all manage their dogs about the same as I do.

One thing that really gets me about people purchasing at pet stores: you can buy a puppy from a REPUTABLE breeder who has done health clearances and taken great care to evaluate pedigrees to minimize problems most of the time for the same or LESS money than you would spend in the pet store. Or if you don't care about what breed of dog, go to the local shelter. There's nothing wrong with getting shelter dogs, just like there's nothing wrong with getting a purebred.

I know a lot of people have this 'vision' of puppy mills but the largest puppy mill in the country is an immaculate place, clean, not cramped, etc. They get whatever vet care they need. The AKC inspected the facility and one of the inspectors being someone in the dog fancy said he was just struck because while they couldn't find a single violation and the kennel was impeccable but he was hit very hard that not one of these dogs had a name, they just had a number. How can any one not tear up to think about that? It's not just about the conditions. Every dog deserves to be loved and cared for and good doG they deserve to have a name!!!

The answer IS to not buy from these stores. Buy nothing from them, not a comb, not pet food, nothing. I don't, I just buy elsewhere. The market will take care of pet stores--if no one shops there then they will go out of business. I know it's hard to think about what will happen to the puppies. In the short term yes it will be bad. But if it means saving future generations the illness and torture...it's not a great solution but I think it's the only one that will ultimately work without screwing over the reputable breeders. Somehow all of this legislation to get rid of puppy mills ends up screwing the people who are trying to do the right thing.

This is a serious question that I (and several other people I know) have grappled with regarding buying animals at stores. I support adoption and will only get my pets through rescue agencies, but at the same time, it breaks my heart to know that the animals in the stores, who did nothing wrong, are going to just be stuck there. What will happen to them? They deserve good lives with loving families, too.

I know that people need to stop buying animals in stores to stop the demand (or a law needs to be passed, which I fully support), but what about the animals that are already there? Are they just supposed to die? I know every time I go to PetSmart (which "sells" most of their animals through local adoption agencies, which is good), I look at the cute little animals and can't help wanting to save them all.

Gah, I'm just a big softy when it comes to things small and furry.

It's hard to say this but people should just not go into the pet stores if they think they will be weakened by the cute puppies. I avoid those stores. I wouldn't personally be compelled to purchase but it does make me really depressed to see them. But people should remember that buying one just means another will take its place...

There are also breed specific rescue organizations and reputable breeders out there. you just have to do your research!

"pure breeds" from pet stores are rarely that and usually have tons of heath issues as adults because of inbreeding.

Face it people, some people want a purebred dog, they want puppies, they want to raise them with their own rules and personalities

then they should do some research about the breed. when the talk to the breeder ask questions they already know to see if the breeder does. If they don't move on.

Now wait a minute I brought a toy poodle from the store and I have had no problems at all and on top of that the store was very clean. All the dogs in the store were being treated well and the service was great so not all stores are bad.

of course they are going to look good in the store they are trying to sell them but the problem is not were they are its were they come from.

http://www.livevideo.com/video/63342C94D2B847B29AFCAC0788AEA981/puppy-mill-video-2.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HM8UmHM8Uo

If you want a pure bread dog look up an AKC registered breeder. I grew up with chocolate labs and love them so when I decided to get a dog that is what I had to have even though I could have probably been happy with any dog. I found a breeder and got a pup with full AKC certification and "family history" going back three generations. You don't need to buy from some random person, and a good breeder is way better than any pet store.

The problem with the pet stores is the inbreeding and treatment. Not that it allows people to buy pups or purebreds.

Happyfeet, you need to do more research. If you want a specific breed, locate a breed-specific rescue group. They are everywhere, for every kind of breed. Or contact a reputable breeder, and by reputable I mean the ones who specifically want you to come to their house and see the puppies WITH THEIR MOTHER. That is the most important thing to verify.

If they ask to meet in a neutral location, that is a red flag and you need to report them. My dog is a purebred Siberian Husky, but I got him from a general dog rescue group, not even breed specific. And he's wonderful. The fact is that puppy mills dogs are much more likely to have actual behavioral and medical problems than shelter dogs are. Puppy mill puppies are inbred and are more likely to develop severe medical issues. They don't get the time they need with their mother, or any experience outside of a cage, so they are harder to incorporate into a home and are more likely to have severe behavioral issues.

Banning retail stores from selling dogs and cats IS the solution. Without that option to get a pet, you then either have to go directly to a breeder, or you have to adopt from a shelter or a rescue group. Either way you can get exactly the dog you want, but this way you're not funding a puppy mill. That solves a lot of issues - all shelters and rescue groups neuter and spay so you're not contributing to overpopulation; by taking a dog out of a shelter you are reducing the number of dogs that have to be killed; by not buying from a pet store you are not directly funding a puppy mill; and rescued dogs are grateful to have a home. They know the difference, and they love you for it.

This banning of pet sales in retail stores needs to be more widespread. It needs to happen everywhere. We need to put the puppy mills out of business. And if you don't care enough about a pet to do the slight amount of extra work by going to shelters and calling rescue groups to find just the right dog, then you probably don't deserve to have a dog in the first place.

American society IN GENERAL wants pure-breed puppies with no emotional baggage or visible defects. We want to give them their name and watch them grow up.

We go about the adoption of human *puppies./kittens* with the same attitude. We want to name them. We want them to be pure-breeds with no emotional or visible defects.

In my opinion if you can't afford to pay that much money to rescue a pet or get one from a reputable breeder you really don't deserve one. The lifetime cost of owning a pet can be very expensive. When I worked at an animal hospital it was shocking how many people could not pay their vet bills for simple procedures. I'm sorry but if you can't afford these things DON'T GET A PET! You can't pay a couple hundred $$ to a shelter for an animal? What happens if it breaks its leg and the vet bill is a few hundred? One of my cats was rescued from owners who wanted to euthanize him after he broke his leg and couldn't pay for the xray. he was 8 months old! now his leg is healed and he is a happy healthy cat. The lack of responsibility is SHOCKING!

rockin, that's an absolutely ridiculous response. Paying more money up front is NOT the way to ensure you can afford the long term expenses of owning an animal. In fact, all it does is take MORE money out of your pocket that you can use for the cost of owning the pet. Maybe you're some rich person for whom that extra money is a drop in the bucket, but for a guy working retail at the time, I couldn't afford that much extra. If you do the math here, that's $400 out of the gate, $800 for the landlord if I had requested the official approval, and the cost of the vet checkups, shots, and eventual nuetering that are a standard part of getting a new animal. Why would I willing throw an additional $1200 into the mix when I don't need to?

You, my friend, have a terrible attitude, and an unrealistic set of expectations if you think that being a responsible pet owner means putting yourself into debt during the adoption process. Like most pet owners, I take very good care of my animals, and I'll pay whatever costs come up along the course of that ownership. But like a person who understands basic personal finances, I see no added value in spending more than I need to.

Frank, you are quite right and rockin, you do have a crappy attitude! Not everyone who will make a wonderful pet owner can toss out a huge outlay in the beginning. Our Animal Control had a "sale" on July 4th last year and sold puppies, dogs and cats for $17.76. I did not particularly agree with it but was there and over 90% of the animals sold went to elderly people or those on lower incomes who desperately wanted a pet but could not afford a $500+ outlay in the beginning. These animals were just as loved and wanted. Owning a dog or cat is not just for the wealthy.

I work with a German Shepherd Dog breeder and trust me, I would rather sell the puppies to a middle class family most of the time than the well off. The middle class people treasure their dogs and treat them like family much more than the well off. To the well off, they are either fashion statements or something to show off with. The well off generally will not listen to advice or suggestions and are much more likely to ruin a dog than anyone simply because they generally will not raise their kids to be respectful either. I spend hours interviewing prospective buyers and turn down a lot of people. It's always the well off who threaten me because they are thwarted in their wants.

Also bear in mind, not all shelters are good. Our shelter here has 75% or more pit bulls and that is it. I don't want one and there is absolutely no reason I have to take one to satisfy other people. Breed specific rescue CAN be could but not always. One GSD Rescue here had only shepherds that were dangerous. One other, my son adopted a shepherd from and the dog had undisclosed EPI which is a very costly disease to deal with on a daily basis. The other shepherd was from a shelter and is highly dog aggressive. It comes down to be very careful...however, selling dogs and cats in pet stores should be banned. It's always cheaper to buy from a legitimate breeder and you can get the health guarantee, meet the parents and chose the one you want.

Like most pet owners, I take very good care of my animals, and I'll pay whatever costs come up along the course of that ownership.

Except for the landlords cost apparently..

Face it, you wanted a kitten, and wanted one without any strings attached. Animal shelters are looking out for the best interest of THE ANIMAL, not you. Yes, you'll have to fill out paperwork, yes they are going to want to make sure you can have pets where you live, because they don't want it coming back in the door when your landlord says "no, you can't have it" (or when you don't have the money for the additional animal deposit.

They are going to look at lots of different factors: Do you have kids; is this animal good with kids; are you working; if not, how are you going to afford its care; if you are working, and getting a puppy, who is going to walk it while you are gone for 9-10 hours a day; who is going to be responsible for its care - ie, is this going to be a test for your kids responsibility; are you going to breed this animal - which would be bad, because the reason shelters exist is because there are too many, and they don't want to add to their problem. So yeah, it may seem like a big deal to you, because you "just want a kitten" and don't think about all the little nuances that shelter personnel do. The pet store just wants there 20 bucks, and doesn't care if you bring it to an animal shelter in a month because its too much for you. This is a living being, and heaven forbid if you have to wait 3 hours doing paperwork and someone checking your references.

While the fees charged by the rescue you refer to might be a bit high, the only way that rescues can afford to help more animals is to charge fees. Perhaps costs in your area are higher which forces the rescue to charge more. Requiring that you neuter the cat is just standard procedure - the rescue doesn't want to see dozens of kittens sired by your cat coming through the door. I'm sure this shelter isn't the only one in your area.

We adopted a young cat from a an animal rescue group. We named her KiKi. Upfront cost was $80 - to pay for her being spayed and for shots. She's a wonderful kitty. But it's true that owning a pet can be an expensive proposition. I got my credit card bill the other day, and discovered Kiki had gone online and charged $300 in kitty toys from Petsmart.

ethan, your attitude sucks too. And you just did something that I complained about - you assumed I wouldn't be a responsible pet owner. You don't know me, you don't know my situation. So you have no effective way to make any value judgments about me as a pet owner. You're just another self-important know-it-all who thinks they can make an accurate snap judgment. And like those people you forgot the following important point:

I went to the shelters first and tried to adopt.

So OBVIOUSLY I care both about the problem we're talking about, and about the animals that sit in shelters waiting to be adopted or euthanized. That's what brings most people to shelters. That doesn't sound like the bad behavior you're trying to pin on people. If we turn up at a shelter and make the effort, you shouldn't start off looking at us as risks to the animal.

So again I say, the shelters in my area throw up way too many roadblocks and charge too much money for a lot of possibly great pet owners. Shame on you for making someone's wallet status your final barometer.

And while it's still in my head: I have no problem with paying a cleaning deposit for keeping an animal -- I objected to paying extra monthly rent. It was a greedy money-making scheme, and shame on the landlord for trying to level it. That said, I'd estimate that 90% of the apartment-dwelling cat owners I know own their cats "secretly" for the same reason. I suppose in ethan's eyes, these people are also irresponsible or bad pet owners.

Sadly, many people are very irresponsible when it comes to pet ownership. No one is assuming that you are a 'bad' owner, the shelters are only trying to protect the animals.

Many of the animals get dumped because people move(?!) (would you give away your kids?) or they think Pit Bulls and Chiahuahuas are a fashion statement. They keep them in cages for 14 or more hours a day, then finally dump them at shelters because they aren't housebroken. Many are also starved and neglected, or beaten.

They want you to fill out an application to make sure it's okay with your landlord. They can't give you a dog that hates cats, a cat that hates dogs, etc, because it will be abused again and dumped off again. If you work 20 hours a day, and travel the country, they want to make sure your pet won't be locked in a cage all weekend while you're gone. YES, these people really exist! One girl came into the shelter that I volunteer at, looking for a maltese, because she found a really cute bag to put it in, online!!!

The fees are meant to curb 'impulse' pet ownership, but also pay for spay/neutering, physical exams, vaccinations, and usually heartworm medication. Many shelters lack funding, and rely on volunteers to stay open. Many animals are euthanized due to lack of space & funding. Many of these animals are exceptional. Don't give the shelters a bad rap, they just want to help protect the animals from further damage.

Frank--

You are either the luckiest dude around, or you are not being honest. No doubt rescue groups vary, but you can always find responsible ones, and that's not true of puppy mill/pet shop operations. I paid under $100. for my beagle at animal control, and that included spaying and some shots. Because I fostered my last dog for Labor Day weekend, he was free. He wouldn't have cost more than $150. under normal conditions.

SickOfExcuses, shelters are "throwing out the baby with the bath water." Again, by assuming up front that the people that come to them are going to be negligent, or bad owners, they are demonizing almost everyone who comes in. And although there's a base logic at play when you talk about screening, it's a process that is poorly handled at best. I'm not necessarily advocating just giving a pet to anyone who wants it, but everyone at these shelters and rescue groups need to relax. Wallet biopsies, long questionnaires, and the poor attitude shown by people here are actually the REASON that there's a strong retail market for animals.

And let's look at the facts: exactly how many animals are rescued out of the total number of animals sold? I'd be shocked if it was more than a fraction of a percent. That alone should tell you that -- even in the case of "impulse" animal purchases -- the vast majority of pet owners are GOOD pet owners. People like ethan need to get over themselves and start acknowledging that fact.

And oh, yes. Let's also mention the paradox created by the folks who want you to shell out lots of money to the shelters, but don't want you to work too many hours. I'm not sure about the economic realities in their world, but the rest of us have to work to pay our bills. That means that pretty much without fail, almost every pet owner will leave their animals alone for 9-10 hours every day (excluding errands, sleep, other family obligations, etc). So using that as a reason to bar an adoption is just plain silly.

Frank, I hear what you are saying. I have not yet had the pleasure of seeking to officially adopt an animal, but I have been amazed and even offended at the stories I have heard regarding the interviews, costs, rules and contracts of adopting.

It's great for breeders and adoption agencies to be interested in the long-term welfare of the pets, but some of them go well beyond reason when they want to be able to "take back" the pet or refuse to let you adopt because someone works long hours (...because apparently people who work can't figure out a way to make sure their pets are well cared for?!).

I'm sure I wouldn't have any trouble adopting a pet, but I'm still disturbed by stories like Ellen Degeneris' "recalled" puppy atrocity. And, I strongly think that the fees for lower/fixed-income people like seniors should be affordable for them. It would be reasonable to council people on "can you really afford this?" and make sure people know they can return the pet if they can't take care of it or find a good home for it.

Frank, not everyone should be a pet owner. Shelters have no problem turning people away for this reason. My guess is you are one of them. They found something in your application, reference check, that led them to believe, you were not an appropriate home for the animal you were looking at, and denied you, and you took the opposite route and bought from a pet store. Having been an adoption counselor for 13 years at an animal shelter, I've seen it all.

As far as being home along for 9-10 hours a day, yes most people work BUT that doesn't meant they shouldn't own pets. It does mean they should not adopt a puppy, because while a housebroken dog can go that many hours without being let outside, a puppy cannot. And what usually happens at that point, is after a few months of the puppy crapping on the floor, the puppy comes back to the shelter and the owner says "i can't housebreak it".

As I said before, the animal shelter is looking out of the animals best interest. not yours. So you may very well be a responsible owner, but responsible means different things to different people, and different animals need different types of owners. My job is to match the right animal up with the right person. Just because you think you are a perfect home for said animal, doesn't mean you are. Employees at animal shelters have a lot of experience with animal behavior, and can tell fairly quickly from interviewing you, if your household situation will match up with the animals needs.

Next time, try explaining your argument in a rational fashion, rather than just spewing forth generalities.

Hooray for you Ethan!

If the price for an animal at a for profit store is less than at a "non"profit shelter, then the rational decision is to buy at the store. (Perhaps there are emotional reasons that may outweigh that.)

The silliest thing is the shelters using "we don't want it to come back" reasoning for not adopting out an animal. Think about it. If they return the animal, you are exactly where you were before the adoption. Except you didn't have to feed or provide medical care while it was away. Add on the adoption fees that you get to keep, and the shelter has a net benefit on a returned pet.

Now the dirty secret is that THE VAST MAJORITY of sheltered animals will be put down anyway. Some people try to think of it in human terms. They compare it to human adoption with all the many hurdles. But there is a huge difference. If a kid is not adopted, we don't kill them.

The best solution is a tax on all sold dogs and cats. The revenue generated should be used to pay for free spaying/nuetering. As well as paying for the shelters. You could really help the problem by raising the cost of a bred/produced animal and lowering the cost of the shelter animals.

Until they change the pricing structure, the first goal should be to save the animals from being "put down". Finding a good home for the few should never outweigh easing the killing rate of many more animals.

(Also note: if the staff is spending so much time on placing the animals (interviews/paperwork), it's just drives the labor cost up more.)

Frank, I actually agree with some of your points.

I feel that sometimes they do make it too difficult & expensive.

I went into the shelter that I now volunteer at, 'thinking' about getting a dog. I may have considered it right then and there, if a particular one caught my eye. I know I'm a good owner, I've had dogs all my life, and honestly, I like them better than my 3 kids most days. I worship dogs, and any one that came into my home would be pampered & loved forever.

When we wanted to see one, we couldn't. We were allowed to look through a fence from 20 feet away. We were not allowed any closer until we filled out an application. I haven't even MET the dog--how do I know it's 'the one'?! Adoption was $200, but not necessarily an issue. I would want to meet the dog, maybe go for a walk, ESPECIALLY because they're Pit Bull rescues!

I left feeling crappy & decided to volunteer & make an educated choice. The dog I liked is a total mush, but even as a volunteer, I haven't been allowed to walk her yet! I think this contributes to the reason why some of these dogs are here for YEARS.

They want to make sure it's a good fit, not an impulse, etc. but they do make it too difficult sometimes. It's almost a hoarder mentality. Every shelter is different, there's one in the next town that's amazing & friendly.

There's pros & cons to both shelters & breeders, I guess it's what works for the individual. I think sometimes impulse buying is the only way pets get adopted, because logically, pets are a lot of work & hassle, and expense. But once you have one, nothing else matters, it's your true love. If you take that away, it's a lot easier to say no to a picture online with an application download.

I still feel that pets in stores are a very shady business, but each store is different too. A reputable breeder or shelter is still a better choice.

They found something in your application, reference check, that led them to believe, you were not an appropriate home for the animal you were looking at, and denied you, and you took the opposite route and bought from a pet store.

ethan, you obviously didn't read what I actually wrote. I walked away from them, they didn't deny me. After all the time I had spent, and then reviewing the costs and laundry list of regulations, I decided to take the cheap and easy route. It made financial sense, and it got me away from pretentious people who really think they know so much more then the rest of us about pet ownership.

And those of you on ethan's side ignored the other point: The VAST MAJORITY of people who own pets are good owners. Stop justifying your fanatical behavior by citing the handful of cases where you met people YOU didn't think would be good owners.

So how exactly am I not explaining myself rationally?

Frank, dont try. I've found most of these bleeding hearts are ignorant morons like the person who doesnt like her beagle cause its bowlegged, pigeon toed, and has a pointy nose.

I wanted to adopt a Pitbull specifically 1 1/2 years ago so I went to the closest shelter. They had the same pretentious attitude your shelter has appearently. They told me they didnt have any pits wich was fine. Then they tried selling me on some other dogs so I entertained the Idea. I wanted to see them. They let me look through the cage but I couldnt play with them. Then they told me if I wanted one I had to come in everyday for 2 weeks and play with the dog for a couples hours to get to know it. I also had to fill out their application and answer all their questions and provide references from people so they knew I would be a good owner(probably because I have Tattoos). So I said FU and told them I dont need to provide references and where exactly would I get such a thing?

Basically I was treated like crap, like I would be a bad pet owner for what ever reasons. So I went home and called the shelter in the next town. I asked if they had a pitbull they said they had one but it was nine mo. old. I wanted a puppy so I wasnt sure but I said ok Ill come look. I went there and checked him out he seemed like a dog I could handle as long as his age didnt affect any training or baggage issues (thats why I wanted a puppy less change of behavioral problems. He was just nuetered so I couldnt have him till the next day. Then I went and picked him up. He has been a good family companion for the last year and a half although he does have some minor behavior problem such as excessive whining and ocassionally crapping in the house at night.

The shelter I got him from didnt treat me like a POS although they did go a little overboard on making sure I would be a good owner.

The moral of the story is that the first shelter lost out on a big opportunity for one of their "rescue" animals to have a good home even though he wasnt the breed I wanted because they treated me like crap.

On another note The first shelter is the one I bought my 2 kittens from the ones that were sick the one that died, if you read my previous posts. I gave them a second chance after the dog incident. They had an over abundance of kittens at the time and talked me into taking 2 when I just wanted one by giving me the second at half price.

So the shelters only care about how good of an owner you are when its in their best interest as they didnt treat me like crap or ask for references on the kittens.

Also, both shelters were disgusting, they stunk, they were dirty and the animals were dirty and very unhappy. Ive never seen that in a pet store.

And to the person that said "Its not the store were concered about, its where they get the animals" I say this to you: By your logic noone should ever adopt a child because they all come from bad homes to begin with thats why they're up for adoption so we can improve their lives!!!

Pet stores need some punitive action, not only breeders. They have been known to kill animals that are not selling and they do not spend money on vets for sick animals.

I am very curious, why has the AZ law, driven the responsible breeder out of existence?

First, Albuquerque is in New Mexico. The fees and rules have made it very difficult for a responsible breeder to participate in their endeavors. No reputable breeder I know has made a profit from breeding dogs. The selling price never covers the expenses of raising a litter responsibly. The law places high fees on owning intact dogs and limits the number of dogs allowed at a home to a number smaller than most litters. The fees and inspections and record keeping requirements are prohibitively high. Many reputable breeders have stopped breeding quality animals. People now buy purebred pups online and from out of town and out of state puppy mills. As with most ill conceived laws, the people who were doing things right are the ones punished and the people who don't care about animals keep on not caring and doing things in the wrong uncaring way.

Lol were not talking about immigrants, PGCL, AZ not to blame for everything!!

No kill shelters are really don't make a helluva lot of sense. For one thing, they really aren't no kill - they just "transfer" the ones they want euthanized to another shelter that does it.

Second, why on Earth would you want to keep alive an unadoptable animal. The dog that is vicious and can never have an owner. The dog that no one wants and will spend the rest of its life in a cage. Yeah, thats a life any social creature (ie, a dog) would want, to live in a 5x5 pen for 10 years. Sign me up.

Thirdly, most no kill shelters are the wonderful unfenced farm land, with green pastures as far as the eye can see, with dogs and cats bounding through the fields with joy. No, most are warehouses of s**t. Hundreds of yards of small kennels as far as the eye can see, with a central trough in the middle for the urine and feces to collect into, and large exhaust fans to drag the smell out. The side you see is the tidy little lobby with pretty polished stainless steel cages. Try going through that "authorized personnel only" sign, and see the real side.

Unfortunately, this is all true.

But the no-kill shelter I volunteer at does not transfer animals out. The ones that cannot be adopted, I agree, should be euthanized instead of imprisoned for life.

If they take the pets out of the pet stores, hopefully more of these animals can be adopted. They are all spayed & neutered, so it also helps with the breeding problem.

Ethan, you need to go here: http://www.bestfriends.org No kill shelters are very viable, and your preconceptions about what they're like are way off. Continue to live in ignorance if you want, but I suggest you look around a bit more.

Ethan, I've said this once or twice but I'll say it again...I'm down to have the "unadpotable, vicious" dogs to be placed in state prisons as one more line of defense between the inside and the outside....let them help patrol the fence line in their own section and let them chase down prisoners who try to escape. treat them well, feed them steak every once in a while. If they aren't safe and stable enough to eb around kids, give them another purpose in life and make them a detriment to the prison population.

LMFAO catastic what you think will happen when you have 2 or more Unadoptable vicious dogs locked in a fence together then feed them a piece of steak????

Youll have one unadopable vicious dog in a fence with a few really big furry steaks

And then PETA will shut the whole prision rehab program down for unadoptable dogs.

but most of them are. you also don't know where that dog came from or the conditions they are being kept in.

It's not the store where you purchased the animal from it's where they started is the problem.

Hmmm, idaho,

Sounds like you could use some training. Not very civilized are you.

Hey Ray,

I'll match my education with yours any day!!!

idahonative68 - You think Sunny is wrong? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and PROVE IT. Provide documentation regarding the breeders that produced the dog. If you can't do that, you really need to shut your mouth. Maybe you weren't paying attention, byt 99% - that is ninety-nine percent - of all dogs in pet stores come from puppy mills.

Your ill-conceived rant is based on ignorance and misinformation. I suggest you wise up and do some research.

Xaqtly Take your own advice, lets see that cash...Prove your rediculous stats 99% come from puppy mills!!!

To quote the most intelligent person you know:

"Your ill-conceived rant is based on ignorance and misinformation. I suggest you wise up and do some research."

Let me tell you this: Petsmart sells animals that come from rescue shelters... there goes your 99% R-tard. Petsmart is one of the largest pet store chains in the world.

Sunny IS wrong!!! And why do you people keep collapsing comment that have opposing viw-points from yours??? That Option is for people who are spamming/being abusive. If you call someone names and they reciprocate thats not being abusive its KARMA!!!

Your comments are ridiculous. While there are many venues available to obtain animals, banning the sale of them in pet stores is not going to raise prices or limit choices. Pet stores normally charge a much higher price that what you would pay if buying directly from a breeder. There are breed specific rescues that often have young animals and their adoption fees are much lower than purchasing from a breeder. Only those who buy animals on impulse will be impeded by this legislation - and those are the buyers who end up dumping their animals at shelters because they didn't do their research before buying.

pakchang--

Above I told the story of my adopted daughter's adoption from a pet store. After I rescued her Beagle puppy, one year later she bought another pup, a Yellow Lab from the same store. Down the road she gave that dog away also. He had hip dysplasia. Had the store been closed, she could not have made that mistake again. A reputable breeder and rescue groups don't encourage impulse buying. They want their animals in forever homes.

LOL, LMFAO, ROFL Greta are you trying to prove my point for me LMFAO!!!!! refer to post 2.8

Fedup: you are rediculous!!!

Ray and pakchang have it right!!!

Your right tom, it is a good Idea close the puppy mills down!!! But dont punish people for selling puppies because you dont like the mills. Pet store employees have families and pets to feed as well why take away their livelyhood?

Those laws were enacted by communities to stop the sale of puppy mill puppies by pet stores because state or federal efforts to get after the mills directly have either been ineffective or nonexistent (no money for it?). It's like going after the drug dealer in Miami because they can't stop the supplier in Columbia. It's not the ideal but nothing else has worked so far.

Pet store owners can still sell other animals and they can still sell dog/cat food and supplies.

You're right that many pet store animals come from mills. But you're deluding yourself if you believe that closing one retail distribution outlet will make the mill owners close up shop and rethink their lives. It's 2010 - brick and mortar stores are already dying out, and there are plenty of other alternatives.

And here's the ironic thing nobody seems to reckon - the animals you're adopting from shelters are just as likely to have come from a mill as not. Meaning you're STILL getting an animal that came from a mill. It's just gone through more hell before you got it.

I would agree that some animals in shelters originally came from mills - the ones whose owners bought them on impulse. But why on earth would you pay a pet store $1200 for a dog that you can get the same exact breed through a breed specific rescue for a couple of hundred?

While this legislation, even if passed nationwide, won't shut down every mill, it's a good start. Millers are only in it for the profit, if the profits dry up, the millers won't stay in the business. Reputable breeders are in the business to better the breed, and they will tell you that there is no profit in breeding.

FedUP, yes, but you're still making the same mistake - closing off this one retail channel doesn't do anything to fix the problem, and isn't likely to put any mills out of business.

They are not closing the pet stores;they are just not allowing them to sell cats and dogs. For now they can still sell fish, birds, rodents, reptiles and they can still sell food and accesories for the dogs and cats that you'll have to get somewhere else.

Fully agree with you. Once I was looking for Dande Dimont Terrier. One of breeder told me that he will not sell his puppies to foreigner. The other ask me a lot of personal questions and after 3 days he called me back and agree to sell. When he asked me which airlines I want the dog to be send and when I told him that I will fly from Chicago to Atlanta to get this puppy he had no more questions. I loved that some breeder take pride. Good for them

That's a bold-faced lie.

I have several birds here, and none of THEM are problems!! If YOU are scared of them, don't frighten off others just because!!! Cockatoo's main issue is, they become like a DOG, actually, very DEPENDENT on human contact, companionship and care!! If they don't get it. they will let you know!! That's an OWNERS problem, NOT the BIRD!! Oh, besides several birds, we have 2 house cats, 6 yard cats (mostly "dump off's who have just moved in) and 5 horses.... so yeah, we KNOW animals!

Why "punish the animal" for the OWNERS shortcomings??

Not all these pets have "issues" !!!! Plus, you know they are in fairly good health cause the shelters check them out pretty good !!!

I am sort of against this law somewhat....reason is....I know of some pet stores that actually adopt out HOMELESS animals after they get shots ect ....they arent breeding them and selling them. This will hurt that sector. For example if someone has a healthy litter of kittens they found and they have the room, they will take them in and the shop owner works with their vet for reduced prices to get them fixed ect , then charge a fee for adopting them. Of course they can only take in so many.....and sometimes someone is told "no". Such is the case if the kittens are too young or not healthy looking as well.

No kill shelters here are ALWAYS full to capacity....so....your only option is to keep the kittens NO MATTER WHERE YOU FOUND THEM or whatever stray dumps them on you.....or.....take them to a shelter where they will likely be put down cause there are too many there. It leaves animal lovers with a VERY hard choice. I have had 13 cats at one time, cause kids tried to kill every animal that moved in my old neighborhood....they would run to our fenced yard and it got to the point the kids were throwing rocks and stuff over the fence at them and STILL trying to torture them. Some never returned that I had been feeding....I know , they killed them :( After a couple didnt come home.....I took the others in ....it was TOUGH.

I know some probably belonged to people who hadnt been taking care of them perhaps....but some were sickly and needed vet care and a good feeding....they were starving and needed help. I got them fixed , they werent breeding....but it was still alot of cats. There isnt many options for those who.....are being responsible and trying to clean up other people's IRRESPONSIBILITY and trying to help animals that really arent even theirs.

At least I gave these animals a fighting chance of making it.....on the streets the kids would have surely killed them all one by one or a few at a time.....they were chasing them constantly. One day I thought kids were fighting across the street.....I went out to see they had a cat I had been feeding encircled throwing rocks at him, kicking at him....sticking sticks and poking him....I was ENRAGED.....I went over there and the poor cat who I had named "Boyfriend" cause he would come over to our door to see moms fixed cat "Fluffy" had his claws embedded in the concrete he was so terrified and I had to PRY him off cement?

I told those kids to go away and leave MY cat alone...."Oh he is your cat, they said....I said YES....no GO !" They probably knew I had been feeding him....as I said....they were trying to kill the cats all the time.....they just GOT CAUGHT that time !!!

Boyfriend lived a long and happy life as my cat.....he was VERY spoiled to me and I guess rightfully so.....and the feeling was mutual.....he was very loved.

I am against puppy or kitten mills....but if a pet store can show that they are adopting out strays/unwanted animals and properly handling things.....they should be allowed to do that. The ones I know of.....take in sort of "emergency situations"....its not really irresponsible people dropping them off either. Most kittens ect were from stray neighborhood cats they had been feeding but sometimes they are too skiddish to catch ect.....Just cause you wind up with kittens....doesnt necessarily mean it was YOUR fault....NOR does it mean you shouldnt try and HELP THEM either.

Rhonda, I'm with you 100%. I have a cat whose owner had to give her up when she left her abusive husband - who was also abusing the cat. The shelter where I adopted her gave me all of her history in advance - including the fact that she tended to be nervous around men-and I decided to adopt in spite of her issues. I have had her for almost a year and although she is still a little nervous with strange men, she has no problems being around my son and my son's father, the two males who are most likely to be visiting my house. And she's such a loving little girl that it was well worth working through her issues.