Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comFindings may explain why no recent drop in birth rate
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These children need to be educated about the efficacy of this method and either be abstinent (yeah right) or use more effective birth control methods. Kids having kids is never fun.
And it's not just about avoiding pregnancy. If kids aren't using condoms they are exposing themself to disease. Not smart.
I found it interesting that the study didn't break down the statistics by race, socio-economic, and geographic factors. I'd also like to know the percentages, by race and ethnicity, of these girls who think that it's OK to have babies without being legally married.
In this age of texting and sexting and teens' inabilities to absorb only miniscule bits of information at a time, do we really think that these kids can possibly be responsible enough to monitor complex fertility cycles? To boot, why on Earth would they use a totally unreliable means of birth control (unless it's for a draconian religious reason) when they all have access to more reliable means of birth control for their unprotected sex encounters.
Even in the pre-AIDS 1970s, we knew better. We weren't given years of STD and birth control classes in elementary through high school years as today's children and teens receive. Our biggest fears were gonorrhea, syphilis, and pregnancy.
Stupid kids.
I thought the "Rhythm Nation" would be in their 30's by now.
My mom had three kids in three years using "the rhythm method."
Adults need to remember, TEENS HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS!
Get rid of the welfare support network completely and lets see how 'OK' it is to be an unmarried teen mother. Evolution must continue... survival of the fittest.
Not just the welfare support, but also the parental support. My parents made it VERY clear that they only had three children to raise. Any children beyond us were not their responsibility.
When teenagers say they use the rhythm method of birth control, they mean they do not use any birth control.
No joke. Most of the adult women I know don't really seem to have a grasp of tracking ovulation. I don't even want to know how a bunch of teenagers think they're doing.
The typical teen female has irregular periods or more than one a month. It's impossible to think that this works. I am a 32 single mom of two boys. I had my first son at 21 and wasn't ready. However, I grew up fast and can't imagine not being a mom. I took a bad situation and dealt with it and now have 2 amazing kids. My youngest son is special needs and as a single parent it was beyond difficult I can't imagine being a teen mom. We need to teach them young how to avoid getting pregnant.
The technical term for a woman who uses the rhythm method of birth control is "mother".
I would like some clarification on this sentence that was in the article.
Are the boys saying that they think it's fine to date an unwed mom?
That they prefer that their pregnant girlfriends not push to marry them?
That they'd rather be with girls who aren't looking for support with their babies?
That having multiple "baby mamas" for their kids is cool?
Please refence the researach that this came from. Otherwise, it just looks like something that was made up.
(Don't these article writers have editors anymore?)
from the article "Also, the percentage of teen boys supporting unmarried motherhood rose dramatically."
Modern feminism pushes a doctrine that women shouldn't *need* a man for anything, including a father for their child. When teachers, parents and the media push this message to young girls, young boys are listening and learn that they are neither needed nor wanted.
Boys are also learning that women are interested in a short six year marriage and saddling the father of children with two decades of shild support while booting him out of the house and depriving him of his role as a father.
We shouldn't feel sorry for any hardships burdened by single mothers. The job to raise children in a single parent household is difficult, but the is a choice made by unwed mothers to burden family and friends with distributing child care simply because these women are unwilling and unable to sustain a relationship with a man.
Generalize much, Vincent? Yes, EVERY single mother got pregnant SOLELY to take some poor schmuck to the cleaners, because, after all, pregnancy and child-rearing are actually a walk in the park. Hey, here's a novel idea! If a man doesn't want offspring, maybe he should wear a condom? What, not reliable enough? Well, then maybe he should practice abstinence. Why is it the woman's responsibility to prevent pregnancy if it's the MAN who doesn't want a baby? Every child has TWO parents. If you don't want to be one, all you have to do is keep it zipped.
Women do need men, just not men like you.
Oh, and while you're not feeling sorry for all those single mothers, why don't you ask the ones who are war widows whether that was part of their scheme?
Flbikerchick, if a young woman (who is after all the one who will end up pregnant) not mature and responsible enough to use birth control, why would you expect a young man (who is NOT the one who will end up pregnant) to be mature and responsible enough to use birth control?
fbikerchick wrote "Hey, here's a novel idea! If a man doesn't want offspring, maybe he should wear a condom?"
Here's a novel idea: give a man equal say in the outcome of a pregnancy. If a man is expected to be responsible for a child, let it begin at conception instead of delivery. Some women defer the start of that responsibility until years after the child is born.
Why are women allowed to keep pregnancy/abortion a secret or even dupe another man into fathering a child that is not his own?
"If you don't want to be one, all you have to do is keep it zipped."
If a woman wants a responsible father for her child, let her keep her legs closed until she is married.
"why don't you ask the ones who are war widows"
Widows are different, and they are nearly negligible in number to the single mothers that make up the 2008 statistic of 40% of babies born out of wedlock. They didn't chose to have a baby without the marital commitment of the father.
I don't disagree that it's okay for an unwed female to have a child. I'm part of that statistic group. Then again I was also almost 26 at the time of my youngest daughter's birth, and I've been with her father for nearly 5 years (she is almost 3).
The problem is that parent make sex and protection taboo still, and we have people who push for abstinence only sex-ed classes. I know better than to think that my two daughters will just not have sex because I tell them not to. As a responsible parent I will educate them about diseases, pregnancy, and how they can protect themselves. It goes beyond just sex in caring for themselves too. Once again, knowledge is power.
Does the father cohabitate with you and your child?
I have an 11 year and he has known about sex since 9. He looks like he could pass for 13 or 14. I was worried about the fast girls at school. I taught him that in our house we practice abstience but at some point he was going to have to make his own mind up. I taught him about safe sex, condoms, std's and most importantly it's ok to say NO thank you. I was shocked that I needed to have this talk with him at the age of nine but these kids now days are way to sexual.
Vincent - I actually moved into the home my boyfriend owns a few months after we began dating. He's been the sole supporter of our family since the last trimester of my pregnancy with our daughter. He's also recently adopted my eldest daughter from my ex-husband. Their choice of wording in saying "unwed female" leaves it open to females of any age, and I fall into that statistic regardless of what my relationship is with my daughters father. We are not now, nor do we have any immediate plans to get married.
Angie - The rate at which kids seem to be "growing up" scares me, and I'm not even into my 30s yet. It wasn't long ago I was a teenager and sex at 16 was still fairly young, but 13 or 14 was shocking to almost all of us. I'm just hoping that being open and honest with my daughters will keep them from making poor choices when it comes to sex.
I agree 100% kids growing up way to fast. I knew I needed to talk to my son when a girl who was already 12 came up and sat her barely covered bottom down on my 9 yr old lap. He looks and acts much older than he is. He is aware that in our house abstinence is the only way I want it. However, clearly I didn't wait so I give him all the info up front. That was the hardest conversation I ever had. I sometimes see those talk shows where young teens want to be parents. I would gladly have one come to my home and see how difficult it is. My youngest son was born with special needs and was on feeding tube and heart monitors I was 26 when he was born and can't imagine a teen dealing with those kinds of problems.
ferrferr wrote "Vincent - I actually moved into the home my boyfriend owns a few months after we began dating. He's been the sole supporter of our family since the last trimester of my pregnancy with our daughter."
There used to be a word for long-term family commitment : marriage.
Vincent, the thing you don't take into consideration are circumstances. Obviously I was married once as stated before. I had an abusive and philandering husband. My boyfriend lost his wife 6 years ago this month. Our relationship has been something that has healed us both from the most horrific events of our life. Having both been married before it's not something we feel the need to rush off and do. We love each other, we're committed to each other and our children, and we don't need a slip of paper to prove that.
I think we've had enough trials and heartbreak in our lives thus far so slowing down and just being together, without worrying about the expenses and stresses that come with planning a wedding, is more important. Life is not cookie cutter Vincent, ours certainly isn't, and there's no problem with that. We're happy and our kids are taken care of, that matters more than anything or anyone's opinion.
Q: What do you call people who use the rhythm method?
A: Parents
I think this is attitude is the by-product of idiotic political correctness. All the candy-a**es are afraid of hurting anyone's feelings and, therefore, are afraid to speak honestly. The term bastard is commonly defined as "a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child". It has negative connotations, and rightly so (just think Octomom). Now, with the PC craziness, I wouldn't be surprised if most teens don't have a clue as to the definition of the word. As such, ignorance is bliss for today's teens. They don't know what the word means and are not aware of the negative connotations associated with it. Why would they not think it's OK when they are ignorant of all the facts?
Because the social cost is less with public funding, out-of-wedlock birth is more acceptable. Girls are no longer expelled from school due to pregnancy. Schools provide free day-care for students, although this is not the case at every school and a transfer is typically required for that support.
I agree with your comments. What I think so many teens don't get, is that its not just having the baby. It is a lifelong committment, which is one of the hardest and most wonderful experiences for most. I have a young adult son and have always told him to always use a condom no matter what. If the girl says she is on birthcontrol, still use a condom. I also told him the consequences of having a baby at a young age and how it changes what your plans may be and that it is forever it's not just a blip for 6 months or so. I will say he was uncomfortable at times during these talks but he gets it.
Yes, teenagers are ignorant of the facts. Because the conservatives have decided to teach abstinence only and NOT empower teens with knowledge; they are totally unaware that "the rythym method" is not a serious method of birth control.
Step, we're not in the 1950's anymore. Adults have children out of wedlock with frequency now. If someone dared to call my daughter a "bastard child" they would likely get my hand (or fist) in their face. My daughter is raised in a household no different from that of any "normal" married couple. Well, save for the fact that her mother and father are not married. Oh and then you get the twist that my eldest has been adopted by my boyfriend. Yep, my house is all sorts of dysfunctional, but you know what .. we don't need any bull@!$%# labels from an era when sex before marriage was taboo.
ferrferr wrote "we don't need any bull@!$%# labels from an era when sex before marriage was taboo."
The labels were practical and intended to discourage children that would be raised without fathers and instead were a financial burden on family and society. It was thought that biological fathers would have a greater interest in their children than cuckolds. Modern women apparently know better.
"we're not in the 1950's anymore."
Yes, paternal influence and culture are misunderstood and undervalued by women. Fathers are dispensible and undesirable except for money.
Did you ever think that maybe some woman made a bad decision in their mate they chose and they really are better off as a single parent then to stay in a marriage or relationship that wasn't good for anyone? I am a single mom to two boys I didn't choose it but it happened and they are better off without their father. And he has paid less that $300 in support and they are 11 and 7.
40% of American women are delivering children out of wedlock. The average marriage lasts six years. Apparently, *most* mothers are making the decision to be a single/unwed mother and deciding that very young children do not need their biological father.
American women believe that as long as they are happy, their children will also be happy. Who cares about the father?
Yeah sure it made since to stay with a lying, cheating drug user for the sake of my kids then give it a go on my own. And for the record my children are happy. They have a mom who adores them and works hard to provide for them. My kids may not have a father but they are doing excellent in their schooling. They are well rounded intelligent kids who will succeed only because mom was smart enough not to stay in a situation what wasn't smart or safe.
I'm with Angie. My ex was a cheater and abusive (I cannot prove that he used drugs during our marriage, but I highly suspect so). You're damn right I CHOSE to walk away from it. My ex-husband lost his rights to my daughter last year. He's paid less than $1,500 in child support, and the only reason I got that much was because the state went after him and garnished his wages.
My boyfriend has taken full responsibility for my daughter since we began living together. He adopted her earlier this year. Prior to my being a stay at home mother I worked full time for the same company for just over 7 years. I was on assistance ONCE for her, and it was when I was married and my husband lost his job.
Vincent, once again you're trying to push everyone in to one happy little moral mold and it just doesn't work. I'm sorry that you can't grasp the fact that people can function withing adhering to what you think is the proper way for it to be done. That's called reality.
And no, I don't give a single tiny itty bitty sh*t about my ex husband. He could fall down a mine shaft for all I care.
This is great! A generation that can't make change without a cash register telling them how much to give back is going to depend on counting as a form of birth control.
I imagine that the teens today are using a rhythm method in sex, but it ain't for birth control.
Bow chicka wow wow!
Social acceptability of teen pregnancy is one of the great failings of this society. An unwed thirty something, who is financially viable, and wanting a child is one thing. A teen-ager getting pregnant, because she can, is both irresponsible and dangerous. We, as a community, are forced to live with the consequences of these peoples lack of judgement. Additionally, children born into this situation are often neurotic, at best, and sociopathic in far too many cases.
It is difficult to raise a child with a strong family foundation. These young people who think it shows how grown up they are to have children before they are adults themselves are a great American tragedy.
The "rhythm" method of birth contol has vaulted many a wife, into a mother. It is also comparable to killing elephants with a fly swatter. Responsible parents should forego any embarrassment, or moral indignation, and talk to their children about sex and the consequences of irresponsible behavior. That is the only way you can really stem the tide of this ongoing problem.
And guess who has to pay for the bastards...using the term literally.
I wonder if they even bothered to ask the kids for a definition of the "rhythmn method?"
Most teens probably think it's doin the "wild thing" with some tunes blastin in the background.
I think it's real cool to make love with some music you really like. also it's great to have a kid while your still in school and get all the benefits of having a child. Now you don't have to go to college and you don't need a job because the system will reward you.
My daughter doesn't have a kid , she graduated from college last year she can't find a job after being let go because they were eliminating jobs and she has no insurance and can't be added on to her parents because we are both retired and are on Social Security. Obinbo's health plan doesn't cover something like this. We suggested she get pregnant and she'll have all the benefits. Good ole USA
Two rhythm method children live in my house, it doesn't work for married couples, either. :D
the rhythm method was proven to be ineffective years ago. their are effective, natural means of birth control that as as effective as the pill if used correctly. I have been using the sympto thermal method of natural family planning http://ccli.org/ for a year and I have never used any other form of birth control. i am not and never have been pregnant.
What is that?
TV seems to be idolizing teen pregnancy. Why shouldn't there be more. "If it feels good; do it." Consequences? What's that.
There are many teens in the Capital District of New York State that I've seen for years where the woman isn't much out of her teens pregnant w/her 4,5,6th child! Where are the father's...NOwhere...they don't pay anything for the future of these fatherless children...mostly these mother's have a life of poverty...they have no skills that are employable...and how can a young mother go to work full time w/3,4,5...babies!...It's madness. And it's alot of monies out of our property taxes that keep the small city's throughout NY State in a state of disrepair and run down...you wonder why there are so many violent crimes amongst this age group...we should come up w/laws that, if you're a single unemployed/uneducated mother, you'll only be allowed to have one child since the Mother or Father of these children won't be paying any of the upkeep...why should I pay for someone elses's kids...especially if they're not in my family?! The Rhythm method is fine...that's why the birthrate has come down, what's wrong w/that...oops - psycho-analyze everything and get no real answers for the financial aspect of such an endeavor as teens having baby's or baby's having baby's...charge the father's w/rape, usually they are alot older than the teen girls. Unbelievale. These new baby's have no future w/out two parents or - @ least an older, mature, economically set young woman. Enough said...
GPlante2ndDistDems12305
gerald - I have two adult children. When my cousin visited me in the hospital after each were born, she recognized several of her high school students in neighboring rooms who had also just given birth. Some were 16 on child number 2. Older ones were on child 3 or 4. Suffice it to say that these girls were not white. There were no grandfathers, boyfriends, or husbands to be role models for these babies. That's not to say that white girls don't get pregnant, because they do. But, the majority are not white.
The Pill and other very reliable birth control methods have been available, for free, for decades. Public school sex ed classes were much more common than in my youth, yet young girls STILL didn't care. And sadly, they don't care today as well.
Children having children don't understand that the cute little "doll" cries at 2AM, will quickly become an irrational toddler when tired and grows to be a rebellious adolescent.
Many criticize Bristol Palin. Yes, she should have "known better," but she has the full support of her mother AND father. Do all girls have that? No. As I have posted, this survey lacks details. But, it's common knowledge that lower income minority teens have the highest illegitimate birth rates and are drains on society.
If responsible adults in a monogamous, long-term, dedicated relationship choose to use less effective means of birth control, that's fine. They have the means to provide for their children and not be society's burden.
Many of today's kids have difficulty with simple arithmetic. They're not equipped with enough knowledge to compute and effectively monitor often erratic menstrual cycles and use unreliable birth control. Many can't even figure out how to take The Pill appropriately.
Bunch of stupid, selfish "women" who think of children as fashion accessories, rather than a responsibility.
How @!$%#ing hard is it to take a birth control pill?
"Remember ladies; your mouth can't get pregnant."
17, Craig-1284267 with a slick derail:
Your comment history is abysmal. You're suspended for a day for violating #1 and #5 of the Code of Honor.
Tyler I been trying to get some other berating person off this vine on a different thread. He harasses people.
anybody who uses the rhythm method and gets pregnant is because they don;t know how to use it, or it is just confusing and they just call counting days the rhythm method, which is very much WRONG¡. I have used the rhythm or the new term is Natural Family Planning to space my children. I have two children 5 and 9 and I have been using this since 1998. This is the best thing that has ever happened to my husband and I. I don;t have to put crappy hormones in my body and we only stop having sex for only a few days which we need, because when it;s time to have it, it;s non stop. I feel bad for this children who probably get educated in public schools who offer this kind of poor information and from parents who are probably on the pill or have the wrong impression about the NFP.
Emme - I think it's rather presumptuous to place responsibility for morals and sex ed on public schools or say that it's the fault of parents "probably" on the pill. Public schools provide sex ed as a public service, because many parents do not teach their children about this. It's the responsibility of PARENTS, not schools, to teach morals, sex ed, and responsibility. Public schools have enough in their mandated core curricula without having to be mommy and daddy, too (even though most teachers have to do that job as well).
It's not anyone's place to condone or condemn usage of The Pill. I'm glad that rhythm roulette has worked for you, but I highly doubt that most kids can understand the complexities. As I said in another post, the article omits pertinent details as to how this survey was done: race, socio-economics, and geographics.
Your post leads me to believe that you seem to have a very low regard for public school education and birth control methods that other parents use.
According to
http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/women/contraceptive/126.html
the effectiveness rate of NPF can be 90-98%, but it doesn't address women whose ovulation cycles are out of normal range or women who are breast-feeding. To me, that's pretty risky from a pregnancy perspective.
For people not in a committed, monogamous relationship, there's the unprotected sex (STD/AIDS) factor as well .... just as there is with any form of contraception other than a condom.
I completely agree. I have been using NFP the Sympto Thermal Method...which is actually completely different than the rhythm method that was proved ineffective. The risks and side effects of taking birth control are so bad for you. at the age of 41 my mom had been taking birth control for 25 years and was told by her obgyn that she has ovaries and a cervix of a 70 something year old....how is that good for you!
Also, many women do not realize that the Birth control is an abortifacient, which will allow you to become pregnant and abort the baby.
These kids need to be educated and hopefully they would make the right decision on their own.
Mantha....I am on IUD and do not get a monthly so therefore if I was to have unprotected sex conception wouldn't occur because no egg is released. That isn't a spontaneous abortion. When I was on Depo didn't get one either...no release of an egg=no period. I chose the IUD because I didn't want a monthly nor anymore children.
I know nobody wants to hear this, but teenagers enjoy using condoms as much as we adults do. I don't care how much lubrication is used and how supposedly sensitive the manufacturers make them, they still feel like crap and spoil the experience. Now I'll probably be crucified for saying what nobody else has the testicular fortitude to say.
Natural Family Planning *WHEN ALL THE RULES ARE PROPERLY FOLLOWED* is 99% effective at preventing pregnancy, not the 75% claimed in the article. The bold part is crucial, however. I doubt that many of these teen girls know how to properly chart their bodies' fertility signals in order to calculate their fertile window. It took awhile for me to get the hang of it, and I was an adult with the benefit of an experienced instructor reviewing my charts. NFP works but you need to know how to do it properly AND have the self-discipline to abstain rather than give in to temptation.
It's pretty complicated. And then you have to have time and have your partner cooperate in haing sex just during the safe times. A lot of men have a problem following a woman's schedule - teenage boys might be more willing to cooperate, but teenage girls have a harder time keeping track. Most of them do really good to take a pill every day at the same time.
Only Romen Cathice do the rhythm and it dosent work, look at all of the mexican women that have kids, there all Romen Cathices and have like 10 kids
Actually, the largest study of Natural Family Planning comes out of highly secular Germany. And it found that NFP is 99% effective when all the rules are followed.
FWIW, the average fertility rate in Mexico is currently 2.16 kids per woman, which is only slightly higher than America's (2.11).
Thanks GOP good job on the teen pregnancy and birth control front (increase in childbirth for teen and reduced use of functional birth control, way to go on funding abstinence programs). Lets see what you did to our environment (increased pollution ie: Dick Cheney's pet project to reduce regulations on oil rigs-unprecedented environmental catastrophe). Congrats destruction of a country in less than 10 years...
My Mother tried that in the 50s did not work then ....... :)
WOW! Must be a very slow news day, because who really cares? Sounds like values have disappeared and are not coming back, and welfare on society will only increase! Thanks kids go have your fun society is eagerly awaiting to pick up the bill for your foolishness! By the way those kids out of wedlock are called Ba$tards!
I get so tired of hearing how our teens are the future of America. They are not, they are the "me generation". All they care about is themselves. It all right to have babies as unwed teens, lets have unprotected sex, its all right, lets dump our babies in the trash, its all right. That is actually what is happening today. I feel its criminal the way teen don't care about anything that matters. How do they expect to get good jobs, how are they going to raise their children, they definitely will not take care of their parents in their old age. This is what happens when kids grow-up with no discipline or responsiblity. All they care about is texting, cell phones and where can we get money. Thank god all teens don't act like the above, but there are a lot that do.
Not all teens and young adults are irresponsible and self-centered. I congratulate the liberal media for yet another attempt to stretch the truth.
Notice that this "survey" made no mention of race or ethnicities that boosted the numbers. A simple Google search provides data as to which groups have the most single, uneducated teens giving birth to babies and rearing them without the "father" anywhere in the picture. I won't even go into how these groups glut social services and have stretched our tax dollars to the limit.