Much better for there to helicopter parents than parents who don't give a s*** about their kids.

Another helicopter parent who justifies their neurotic behaviour. Thanks for calling attention to yourself, Megan.

Our job is to raise them to become functioning, responsible, reliable, competent adults. Sometimes kids have to learn by trial and error, and if the parent is hovering it stunts their growth. They never get the chance to learn and fail and pick themselves back up and fix it.

Yeah. Government licensing seems like a great idea. Unless you're the one paying the taxes . . .

@Megan: Helicopter parents are not better than those who don't give a s*** about their kids. Both parenting styles are inevitably harmful to children in different ways.

My mother fits the description of a 'helicopter parent' to a T. She called me EVERY SINGLE DAY of my Freshmen year in college despite my pleading with her to let me grow up. She tried to intervene with the staff at the dorm and have me moved into a different room when she deemed my dormitory roommate not good enough (happily, the dorm staff wouldn't give in to her requests to move me). She constantly stayed on top of me about whether or not I was meeting deadlines. She would call to remind me that tax season was approaching and if I had not already sent in my information to the family accountant, she would hound me on a daily basis until I had completed the task. She did the same things to my brother.

Wanna know what resulted from this parenting style? My brother hardly speaks to my mother. He resents the hell out of her for her infantilizing him and being intrusive. I have a generally good relationship with my mother, but my life has been the classic story of an adolescent living in an adult's body. I've never found a job that I enjoyed so, even though I am intelligent and well educated, I've never had much of a career. And I am terrible at meeting deadlines (such as paying a bill on time) even though I have money in the bank. And yes, I fully accept that I have some responsibility here to act like an adult, but my mother's over-parenting severely stunted my growth and made it very difficult to make the transition into adulthood.

If, as 'Metal Guitarist' assumes, you are a 'helicopter parent', I urge you to seek counseling for parental skills so that you can back off and let your child(ren) grow up.

Sorry Megan, but I agree with Metal... There has been a huge problem with "over parenting". I'm not saying you personally either over- parent, or under-parent, but for many that do, there is an in-between... you just need to find it and stick with it. Too many parents can't seem to discipline their kids and they wonder why they turn out to be the way they are now - most of them brats.

Why do you think we have so many kids killing themselves over being bullied now, or showing up to school with guns and killing indiscriminately? There was a breakdown somewhere between now and 20-25 years ago and it has to do with parenting. I certainly don't remember these problems when I was in school, except for the bullying which has been around since man could walk. When I was in school (86) I can't remember one school shooting anywhere in the country, not one.

These kids get whatever their heart desires, then turn out to expect everything, not only from their parents, but from others as well. And what happens when they don't get it? They throw a fit the only way teens know how to do lately - by killing.

My 12 yr old is in tae kwon do and has been for a year, along with a boy about a year younger than her and almost twice her size (he's been there a lot longer too). He is the biggest baby I've ever seen - when he doesn't get his way or gets hurt - which they all do - he literally cries like his 2 yr old sister. He's at the point now where he hasn't been promoted in close to a year, my daughter is now a black belt like he is and he's actually afraid to spar with her because she beats him - figuratively and literally. So what he does instead is pick much smaller partners and then takes his aggression out on them, like little girls, and he has hurt a few of them... worst of all he's actually proud of himself because he finally "wins". (Yes, this is being dealt with).

My point is, you can hover over your kid and think you're doing the right thing because you don't want to make the same "mistakes" your parents made... when not realizing they probably did things the right way to begin with. It's called discipline - and I don't mean to imply that gives any parent the right to hit/beat their kid. Geez, all I have to do is give my daughter a "look" when I'm angry and she immediately stops what she's doing and apologizes. And I never laid a hand on her in her life.

I've been around so many parents that just don't have a clue it makes me sick. Do I make mistakes? - ALL THE TIME! However, I am one of the few parents who thinks it's appropriate that if I make a mistake regarding my kid, I apologize to her - just as we expect our kids to apologize to us. You have no idea what that simple gesture can do for a kid's self esteem.

Parenting is really not that hard... why it seems to be such a problem lately is beyond me. All I can do is hope I did right by my daughter and that she doesn't end up shot in the back by some sick kid who has to get back at the world for all his problems.

oh Peter stop blaiming others for you issues..yes your issues..grow up..waa waa

You think I'm a helicopter parent? Ha. I'm 21-years-old. I have worked with children and I can see that a lot more damage is done when kids have parents who don't care about them at all. Maybe some kids with helicopter parents don't turn out well, but I'm going to guess that most of them do very well in life. A lot of the kids in my town had helicopter parents and they're all going to school at places like Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard & whatnot. All generations of parents have issues, but I don't helicopter parenting is the worst kind of parenting the world has ever known. It seems like an overblown issue to me.

Peter - when I read your post it reminded me of a woman from the 1990's. She used to have a website - I think it was called Finding Amy or something like that - and she posted voicemail messages from her mom. They were insane - and insanely funny. This woman called incessantly and would threaten to call the police if she didn't call back. That was entertaining but now seems a wee bit creepy.

I agree, Megan - heli parents certainly aren't the worst! They may annoy the rest of us (and their kids) but at least they care about their kids.

Yeah, until you're one of those kids' teaching assistants who get threatened to be sued because you didn't give their precious, special, and infinately perfect angels straight a's . . . .

Helicopter parents may have good motives, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And don't pat them on the back because "at least they care about their kids". That's what you are supposed to do as a parent. That's the bare minimum.

Some of those over parented kids break out one day and BAM! They don't know how to handle life and take everything to excess. Not all, but some of the ones I knew went ape@!$%# when they finally broke away, and they didn't always make good decisions.

I totally agree lib50!

PeterParker...wow! You turned out well compared to me. My mom wouldn't let me shower, dress, pick out food, decide my own bedtime, choose how to spend my money, etc. until I was well into double digits. Even into my 20s she would call my boss, friends, roommates, parents of friends, sports coaches, etc. daily to learn every detail of my life but never once came to me to talk about anything. She interfered in school, work, sports, my own purchases of cars, my relationships, you name it she interfered there too. I never did my own laundry or put away my own toys. End result is being unemployed & homeless because I have no clue how to take care of myself. All I've managed to learn is that being confrontational and a bully works. Only problem there is that with everything my mom has done I have so low self esteem that I don't have the ability to be either of those things let alone stand up for myself. I know kids who have parents who stayed out of their lives and let them learn and live on their own and they all turned out ok. I have no friends in part because no one wants to put up with my mother. So for those parents out there who think that you are doing something good for your kids by micromanaging and interfering you are wrong. You are screwing them over for the rest of their lives by making them incapabale and insecure.

Its not too late to take the reins and move forward. Start at the beginning and start doing what you need to do for yourself. If you don't know where to start, read some books or go online for resources and just start on step at a time, and before you know it you will see the changes, and more self confidence. Good luck.

Lee-453088
Yeah. Government licensing seems like a great idea. Unless you're the one paying the taxes . . .

Lee, it's because I pay taxes that I advocate licensing of parents through the federal government. I suppose you want the Duggars to have kid #20 when you know God damn well that they can't afford another one. How 'bout Britney? How many additional kids should she be allowed to inflict upon society?

Only an irresponsible parent who enables their brats or abandons them altogether on a desert road near Las Vegas would oppose this idea.

TV shows like the Duggars "19 and counting" from Northwest Arkansas who are raising "kid bots" who can not read, watch tv, choose clothes or activities are "role models" to conservative, religious fanatics who think "home schooling" protects kids. Who will protect the kids from their parents? There is a whole culture of people who will not let their kids leave their sight from the day they are born. They have to control their "thoughts" and beliefs about everything. This doesn't transfer values it transfers neuroticism.

Who cares about the Duggars? If those kids want to live with mom and dad the rest of their lives........... Who cares? They aren't hurting anyone. So you don't believe in their life style, did you ever stop to think they might not like your life style?

Right, because we all know parenting has been absolutely flawless over all time before this study.

Come on. There've always been overprotective parents and there've always been parents who could only loosely claim that title. Nothing new here except continuing evidence about the impact of bad parenting.

This one time, I saw a blimp.

Yeah but this "study" seems off to me. Asking kids who just left the home for college if their parents were overbearing is bound to get skewed results. I would bet $$ that over 80% say yes. They've never had to bear that burden themselves and would see something like telling them not to smoke or drink as overbearing at that age. College professors are notaurious for being out of touch with reality anyway. Not one thing I was ever told about "once you get in the real world" applied. Think about it. They (not all) went all the way through highschool, college, then stayed in college and just sat at a bigger desk.

I'm sitting at my desk, drinking coffee by the computer, chewing gum, reading the internet while I wait on multiple automated tasks to finish on the servers, and sometimes wear shorts that *gasp* expose my KNEES.

Too many seemed to be on power trips and professors complaining about parents "interfering in normal student-teacher only issues" raises a red flag for me.

Spankings both at home and at school were common for me. My parents making sure they knew what I was doing was normal. I didn't like it at the time, but most kids don't. If they had asked me I would have said they were helicopter parents. But now that I'm approaching 40, I see things MUCH differently. Kids these days who don't go through that are just out of control.

Jeff - when I was a grad student I was a teaching assistant at the university I was attending. Some of the parents were HIDEOUS and would call me if their child got a B on a paper. Our very strict policy (that most universities uphold as they stated in the story) was that anyone over the age of 18 was an adult. We were not to discuss anything with the parents. I can't tell you how many times I "was going to be sued." Whatever. Get over yourselves. And btw, most of those students partied hard and didn't care anyway so they just let the parents make fools of themselves because the heli-kids were feeling the freedom and loving it! But of course, they did feel entitled and let their parents deal with it. Wonder if their mommies and daddies call their bosses now?

The feeling of entitlement by some of those very same students always intrigued me. Their argument always was "Well, I pay my tuition, you owe me this grade."

Tuition = $5,000 a semester
keg =$30 a night
Sense of entitlement for not working? Priceless.

These are two PERFECT examples of the concept of the "helicoptering" parent, or what used to be called an "overbearing" parent.

peterparker: "She tried to intervene with the staff at the dorm and have me moved into a different room when she deemed my dormitory roommate not good enough."

Lee: "Some of the parents were HIDEOUS and would call me if their child got a B on a paper."

Parents who step in and "do the work" for the kids are NOT helping, they are interfering! They, for whatever reason, do not want or are afraid to let their college age kids grow up. They are, in essence, giving their kids (young adults) the message that they (the kid) can't or won't to take care of themselves properly without their parents' "help" and will ALWAYS NEED their mother/father to take care of them. THIS is the neurosis of the parents!

There must be a middle road here somewhere. I always told my kids that it was my job to take care of their health, safety, and welfare. How they did in school was their job. They knew how to pass and they knew how to fail. It was their choice. At junior high it was time to loosen the reins so that by the time they went off to college they were able to take care of themselves. They knew it was up to them. They had their ups and downs but all did extremely well and have successful careers. You can't "smother love" your kids and expect them to suddenly be self relient when they get that high school diploma.

to ObservantOne-1858931. I have to disagree with you. crime is not as big as you think it is in this world. did you know its a 1 in 1.5 million chance your child will be abducted? and that 80% of molested/raped children have been molested/raped by their family members? I don't think you do. you are making this world seem completely dangerous and unsafe. I am 19 and going to MIT, and guess what? I got there all by my self. I was raised by a single mother, and she worked 3 days a week as a surgeon to provide for me and my brother. because her lyme disease took all of her energy. I know she loved me very much and always was trying to get me to do more, but never pushing me into something I didn't want to do. in no way was she a helicopter parent, and look how well I turned out. also, there are three times as many helicopter as parents who don't bother with their kids. There are even more parents who can find the middle ground, ever heard of that? all the news stories of child abduction cases make it seem like they're common, but they aren't. you need to back off, big time. i feel awful for your kids, somewhere inside them selves they are screaming at you to stop controlling them.

O One - You have a very dark and paranoid view of the world. And try using paragraphs; otherwise it looks like you're rambling.

O One is rightly ticked off at our sick society, but is exaggerating everything. Must have been abused and has issues, or lives in a VERY bad area. I'd bet she (?) is the WORST type of overbearing parent and that her kids NEVER learn to cope on their own. Her paranoia level is WAY up there.

That said, I'd prefer overbearing to neglectful any day, as I do see both every day. Not too many perfect middle-of-the-roaders around anymore - that's sad...

I'd agree with you that as a parent you have the right to raise your child within your own belief structure...but all those things that you mentioned are NOT helped by heli-parents. Bullies have been around forever and will continue to be around...your ability to micromanage your child makes that kid a stronger target for a bully. They need to learn how to handle themselves...not sit around and cry until they're rescued by overprotective parents. These are the parents calling the school principal because Johhny doesnt know time management because mommy always did it for him and Johnny just got an f on a paper because he turned it in late. Or the child who fails home ec because mommy always did his laundry, or the boy scout whose DAD builds his pinewood derby car?!? or the child who doesn't get a drivers license until after college because mommy and daddy always drove them EVERYWHERE. I went to school with those kids. And it's pathetic that the parents are allowed to disadvantage their progeny like that. Critical thinking is a lucrative skill, as is time management, and emotional IQ (EQ). Overprotected children don't have a chance to develop any of those life skills on their own, because they're never allowed to think for themselves. And then they get caught up in it, "hey, I just failed this paper. I'll call Mom. She'll get it fixed for me. Then I don't have to look like a bad kid, OR stand up for myself. Win Win!" And the mother is thinking, if I don't stand up for my child no one will. Wrong. Your child will learn how to do it on his or her own, and become a better person for it.

The parenting you advocate keeps children from becoming independent, which, I suspect, is your goal. If your child becomes independent, then what purpose do you have anymore? Helicopter parenting is not about the children, it is about the selfishness of parents who have to feel needed every second of every day.

And I am sure that your local school system was thrilled that you chose to homeschool because dealing with you would have been a nightmare. I do feel sorry for your children though.

Another problem with home schooling is lack of social experience. You see the same thing with kids that go to small church-run schools. When finally (if ever) let out on their own, they either go hog-wild on booze and/or drugs or become de-facto hermits unable to cope with the everyday interactions we all take for granted.

Just how well do their parents (AND kids) do with the constant close proximity with each other. I know that with adults, like rats in a cage, friction is the result. Cannot help with emotions such as love, which actually need some separation to foster.

Altogether maladjusted individuals result from both home-schooling and small church-schooling, social misfits at best...just my opinion, but based on observation...

Well, take O as an example. She is paranoid and, frankly, weird. Because her kids were homeschooled, those are the only ideas they have been exposed to. In addition, because this mother so closely monitors her children, it is likely that the only people the children know are very much like their mother. In public school, at least they would have had a chance to see what normal looks like.

Must agree with JohnC. You care more about what makes you happy than what is best for your kids which is you being selfish. I should know-I was in diapers until I was 6 so my mom could feel needed. She didn't care that I am and was a social misfit. According to her I am lucky to have had such a wonderful mother.

You make some excellent points and made me think about those 26 year-olds still at home. Evolution. I'm probably wrong here, but I bet there's a kernel of truth - humans infants take the longest to develop of any animal due to our advanced brains...we are born with less 'natural' instincts, our learning curve is longer because everything has to be 'taught'.

Enter the information age. Maybe nature is trying to again extend our learning curve just to cope with the mental onslaught? Does increasing exposure to TV have an effect? Has anyone correlated average IQ scores by recent decades (most probably irrelevant this early)? We now live longer than ever before, that's another factor that also ties to evolution.

If I'm right, then at the very least we need to raise the minimum age for drinking, voting, and selective service if ever instituted again.

I'm not making excuses for them, I left home at the age of 19 and made a career of the Army, but it may not be ALL their fault. Devil's Advocate here.

Just a thought...

Hey, I have a tip on how to keep adult kids from moving home. I am the world's worst cook. None of my kids came home, not even over for dinner. They all taught themselves how to cook and are good at it because they like to eat. (I go to their homes for dinner!)

If you are 31 and still living at home (to save money or any other excuse), you are a big part of the problem. Yes, your parents are enabling you, but if you really wanted to rebel, you would have to do it without their roof over your head. You really need to grow up before you get married. You sound like you are sixteen instead of 31.

I agree with Mom above and will add even more. If you live in their house, you should live by their rules. Don't like it? Move out. Go share an apartment with a friend if you have to.

Beth - while I feel a wee bit sorry for you - actually I don't, I think you're the epitome of the article. Sense of entitlement. Check. Too dependent. Check. You've SHOWN your parents that you can't handle it out on your own. You're 31 years old for crying out loud. When I was 31 I had twin boys in the hospital and we were on the verge of losing our house because of the medical bills. Did we go running home to the comfort of our parents and then complain? No. We sucked it up, paid our bills, took care of our kids, and made the best of it.

Life is hard, honey. And if you're just "saving money" how much do you need? Why don't you just own up to it instead of blaming your parents and the world around you. We're in a recession and people are in dire straits right now. They aren't acting like 15 year olds complaining about their parents treating them as such.

If I were you, I'd be grateful. I would have LOVED to have the option of parents who were willing to give up a little bit of themselves to financially and/or emotionally help me out as an adult. I had neither.

There is a prolonged adolescence today in younger people but i think that is a function of longer life spans in general and of smaller families as well. When I was a freshman in HS (1970-71) the avg. family had five to seven children and only dad worked. While mom was at home, kids had to help mom run the house and the older ones watched/helped care for the little ones. Kids made their own fun after school and this was typically simple games, riding bikes around the neighborhood. Moms did not appreciate the neighborhood traipsing through their homes so we were outdoors most of the time. There was a concern for children's safety but not the pervading horror of today. That is due to the constant headline of every single national crime against a child being provided through our multiple ingestion of world news each day. Our parents only read local/NYC papers and most TV was turned off during the day until 4 or 5 in the afternoon. Today, WE read 'crime and punishment' on MSNBC which details each and every crime committed against kids in the entire nation and world. Moreover - there was less competition for resources and MUCH less expectation. Today, summer means a 'vacation' by default. When we were kids, the summer WAS the VACATION itself. There was no 'special trip'. I don't know if I am a helicopter parent, but I try very hard as does my husband to balance concern and common sense with our children. While they are not living in a gilded cage and I do NOT call their schools or their teachers (both are good students, so I have no need) , I do worry about the world they live in - what parent doesn't? But I have no doubt that when the time comes - they'll take their lumps in the world at large. Someday we'll be gone and I pray that by then, they'll be independent professionals and contributors to society at large. There is no guarantee but overall I have to say that in parenting skills, the parent who is uninvolved and does little other than provide a roof and food is not doing their job. To set an example - parents have to walk the walk. That, more than anything else, is the key to bringing up junior in a sane environment. So far - mine are doing quite well. PS - I had the first at age 40 and the second at 42. I started late - but I had all my ducks in a row when they were born. By this I mean financial stability, house nearly paid for, important bases covered and able to always have one parent home if not both. We have loved and are LOVING raising them ourselves (as opposed to babysitters). They're secure and we do not give them every single thing they ask for or want. I think there are confounding variables in the study and quite frankly - from the tone I don't really think it was an unbiased research process. But, parenting is hard work - let's not decry those parents who care about safety and give them a silly moniker 'helicopter'. It is an infantile and frankly, nondescript title for a poorly defined, perceived group of individuals.

Eventually, parents pass away and the next generation takes over. Pray that they have learned essential lessons well and are ready to be the standard bearers.

Well said!

Getting married to get out of your parents house is the wrong reason to be getting married.

Yeah I agree with Mom 1206. You're 31, and you're interested in proving to your parents that you can pay all your own bills? As an adult, you don't have ANY reason at ALL to even SHOW them your bills. And if you're not financially solvent at 31, then you've got MUCH bigger problems than that. 16 is right!! Do mommy and daddy still buy you clothes and cook you dinner? When I came home on summer break from college, my parents made me pay them $300 a month in rent, AND I was required to cook dinner at least 3 nights a week, do my own laundry, clean the main bathroom, etc etc. It taught me financial responsibility, and how much effort it took to maintain my own household. When I graduated, Dad gave me that money back, as an unexpected plus. Told me to use it as a down payment on a house. Which I had paid off completely by the time I was 37 on a 15 year mortgage. You've got 6 years. Get to work.

Wow, that is a really cool thing your parents did. Thanks for sharing that. Something to consider when my kids (now under 10) go to college.

OMG Karen, ever hear of paragraphs?

Karen - beautifully stated. I actually think I was falling under the helicopter parenting - possibly - when my kids were little. They're still little - 9 now, so it's hard to discern. I had twin boys who were born 9 weeks prematurely and required alot of care. CONSTANT care. I got so used to that, that as they grew older, I was still sort of doing things for them and not giving them the chance to do things for themselves. Long story short, I realized recently (within the last 6 months) that I was doing TOO much. Why shouldn't they do chores around the house. So, my hubby and I began to give them chores we knew that they could handle. And suddenly, they're just little rock stars trying to help us out around the house! In fact, we had to put down new mulch and without their help, we never would have finished in a day. They wake up in the morning and make their beds, take out garbage, and put new liners in without being asked. I'm really proud of them and they have a sense of pride that takes my breath away! They're learning they have to work and earn what they have - it's not just going to be given to them. Yeah, I could buy them a new video game, but I won't. They have to EARN it or put it on their wish list. They're now using their allowance to give to church and saving it for a rainy day.

I'm glad I realized it now, when they're 9. It's made all of our lives EASIER. And we've told them when they're in high school, they have to have jobs. I don't care what it is, but it's a necessity. I want them to learn the value of hard work and money before they become adults. Because I'm not spending my twilight years hovering over them and deciding whether I think they are making good decisions. They have to figure that out for themselves.

What age is the right age to 'let them experience the world'? Just curious...10 years of age? or 12? What about 15? What does 'letting them experience the world" even mean? These judgements that are being made are poorly defined so as to make the study meaningless to me. A good study has a tool which measures real data. This one is retrospective but offers little to no hard data. What tool was used to measure. Did all inept and 'loser' kids live in 2 parent households, were any in blended families? Were any of them adopted? And these 'helicopter' parents (stupid name); where they all male/female? Were any of them seperated, divorced or gay/lesbian? See what I mean.

Finally - the headline itself is inane.

Most of these deficits were mentioned in the article - they admitted to being the first to study this phenomenon and that more studies were needed...

I don't know if that's necessarily helicopter parenting - or lazy parents who don't want to fill the time themselves.

I agree with Lee and Kaara: children need and desperately require simple down time with NOTHING to do when they are young. It is during such time when imagination develops and those simple, lazy days of summer vacations are the times looked back upon with smiles as young adulthood creeps in to mandate jobs and the loss of sweet, childhood lie-ins knowing that NOTHING has to be done RIGHT NOW. I do not mean to advocate that camp, sports etc. are not important. Certainly kids need to socialize and enjoy the various activities which they enjoy. But to FORCE children into endless activity is to sap the joy from their moments. These constant 'camps' are a function again, of working parents who cannot be home with their children during the summer as was the case many years ago. It is unfortunate for the child who must be up at 7am all summer long and have 'planned activities' until Sept. rolls around again. Mine are young and while both have one week of camp - and we do take a week to travel somewhere new each summer; the rest of the time is unstructured for beach, pool, amusement parks, or simple hanging around to read or play. School and september will be here soon enough and we enjoy reflecting on 'what we did during our summer vacations."

I felt it meant that every time your kid hits a bump in the road, the parent swoops down like a helecopter and rescues them. That's in just about everything, but mostly school. How many parents stay up half the night either doing their kids' homework, or trying to help them with it? If they're having that much trouble, it's the teacher they should be seeing, not their parent. When they get in a fight, some parents interfere and fight their battles for them, often battle other parents. (I found it easier to tell my kid to "get home" and follow him there.) Fight over! They'll be friends the next day but the parents will never speak again. Kids have to take their lumps. That's how they grow.

There is a difference between an involved parent and a helicopter parent.

Right JohnC. - Most have missed the definition of a helicopter parent here. Making sure they are doing well in school, i.e., doing their homework, keeping their grades up and doing "things" for them or scheduling lessons - is not the definition of a helicopter parent. You must be an involved parent but not constantly solving their social issues and making "all" their decisions for them and constantly "fixing" their mistakes or "hovering" over everything they do and everywhere that they are to make sure they are not mistreated, misbehaving or otherwise doing something that you deem necessary to "steer" them from. They must learn to make their own decisions and sometimes you need to let them fail otherwise they never learn themselves how to solve their own problems. Helicopter parents are the ones that wonder why their kids don't make responsible decisions as they are teenagers or young adults and it is because all of their decisions were made for them ALL of their lives and they don't know how and they question their own thought process because their own self esteem and confidence was never built up (ooh, bad grammar there!). You must start that at an early age and many parents do not want to let go. The best thing you can give them is their own wings to fly.

Shaydie - you're doing the right thing and I'll bet in 10 years your daughter will turn around, kiss you on the cheek and say, "thanks, mom" . Certain environments are simply DANGEROUS for youngsters and they NEED their parents to protect them from what may damage them for life. YOU have got your daughter's back and I salute you!

Shaydie - Keep on keeping on - she'll thank you later!

Glad you pointed that out JohnC. There is a certain amount of involvement that is a good thing and certain amount that is bad. It's all about finding the right amount.

Just so you know she won't later thank you. She may not even want you in her life. You need to let your kid fail at an early age when things are less of a big deal and you can be there to help. Later in life failures are a bigger deal and it won't always be possible to go to a parent for help.

I believe the article explicitly said that the study did not imply causation, just association.

The article leads the reader to believe there is a causal relationship and ends by suggesting that parents might want to consider behaving differently to prevent the neurotic traits which of course is pointless if the relationship is simply a correlation with other causal variables. The article also develops no other alternative hypotheses for the observed correlations (i.e. independent free ranger kids don't need, want or tolerate extended 'parenting'). I personally believe that since the advent of psychotropic meds there are lot's of kids who are now ABLE to go to college (like kids with severe ADD) who would not have been able to attend college a generation ago. Nonetheless, they are still more vulnerable and have parents who have needed to be more closely involved with them both in their youth and as they leave for college than those parents with healthier kids. It's like the old studies that pathologized "overinvolvement" behavior in mothers of autistic children and hypothesized it was the maternal behavior which "caused" autism. Turns out the maternal behavior was CAUSED by the childs autism rather than visa versa. I suspect this sort of study and the false conclusions drawn suffer from much the same confounds.

Newton - "Obviously a kid who is a 'free ranger' is not going to tolerate "helicopter parents...""

Tolerate? I believe you're giving the kids too much credit. While they all obviously have their own individual personalities, consistent parenting plays a much greater role in shaping those personalities than you might be willing to admit.

Just a layman's opinion, but from much experience.

Also, I've been accused of being an egghead, but I do attempt to break up comments with paragraphs. Not to call you one, but you use an awful lot of eleven-dollar words in a public forum...

No offense.

Markus: perhaps my words are over your head because your response isn't related to my points.

Consistency of parenting is not at issue in the article or in my comments. Consistency can be good or bad depending on what you are doing consistently. For example, it's obviously not constructive to beat your children consistently.

The issue at hand is whether parenting which extends into early adult years and is preceded by more intensive monitoring and oversight "causes" neurotic behavior in children. There is no evidence to support such a causal relation. The correlations noted in the study reviewed in the article demonstrate no causal pathway and falsely make claim to one.

I suggest another causal pathway: more neurotic children elicit closer and longer lasting parental monitoring than children without such problems. It's at least as likely (and I believe more likely) that like in autism and other inherited conditions, the childs pre-existing condition is the cause of the change of parenting style than visa versa. A third possibility which is also more likely than the one proposed in the article is that neurotic parents genetically pass their neuroticism to their children and both parent and child suffer from increased anxiety and isolation.

I am a physician/scientist by the way so I don't mind being thought an egg head by people who have trouble with big words. The paragraph thing? I usually don't take the extra time...but just for you I did it on this occasion. Did that make my meaning any clearer?

It took you that many words to NOT answer my question?

You can insult me as much as you want to make yourself feel superior, but since all you're doing is dancing around my original question to you, it's not flying!

You: "Obviously a kid who is a 'free ranger' is not going to tolerate "helicopter parents...""

Me: "Tolerate? I believe you're giving the kids too much credit. While they all obviously have their own individual personalities, consistent parenting plays a much greater role in shaping those personalities than you might be willing to admit."

You: "Consistency of parenting is not at issue in the article or in my comments. Consistency can be good or bad depending on what you are doing consistently. For example, it's obviously not constructive to beat your children consistently."

I wasn't talking about beating children. Consistency means not letting them slide three quarters of the time and being serious only one quarter of the time - you address blatant misbehavior immediately and never let it slide, then you won't have to worry about a child's personality TOLERATING anything. You follow through. Not anally over everything the child does, but with the important things.

My original question to you, in case it was "over your head", was posed in one word only:

Tolerate?

Your use of this word belittles your academic training IMHO. Your non-use of paragraphs simply means, again IMHO, that you're not concerned with actually conveying information to others, you're just trying to display how much of it you have in your cranium.

Perhaps a little less time studying children through texts and clinical settings and a little more time actually observing negligent/overbearing families at home might bring you down to earth enough to communicate with laymen.

I'm currently in a unique situation, living in a large house with two families that were recently brought together.

The homeowners are extreme helicopter parents whose adopted children, while in their teens, display the maturity of grade school kids.

Their much-older son (now in his mid-thirties) who was also extremely helicoptered and hasn't been able to hold onto a job for more than a few weeks at a time moved back home with his kids a few months ago. He's a terribly negligent parent whose kids are fiercely independent free rangers.

Observing and interacting with them doesn't make me an expert in any way, but it does make this article ring true to me.

MD, you really are rambling quite a lot and I don't have time to untangle the knots and misunderstandings. But if you think I don't have real world exerience with kids you are mistaken. Two of my own (grown) and have worked with hundred of parents and kids and contributed to the literature on the realationship between psychopathology and child rearing styles. And yes, grown ups (over 18) who are healthy and independent absolutely can decide not to "tolerate" parents who are neurotically wishing to be overinvolved in their lives or micromanaging them. Conversely, an already neurotic young adult may welcome and require the "overinvolvement". Peace out.

Morndew - don't be so hard on yourself. There's a difference between helicopter parenting and ensuring your child's safety. And all parents, myself included, have parenting habits that have bound us from our childhood. You're not trying to do everything for your kids, you're trying to keep them safe - and there's a big difference. And good for you for doing so! Don't be so hard on yourself. I agree though, it's hard not to pass on our fears to our kids. I know that I have some (like driving in the snow because of a bad car accident) that my kids feel and understand - despite trying to consciously NOT be nervous about it. (Oh, and I live in the Midwest where we have winter 8 months a year - go figure!)

Besides, if you think you're a heli parent - you're probably not. I think most heli parents don't even realize they are. At least not the ones I know.

I'm sorry for your past, but you seem to have risen above it - kudos.

IMHO, of the two extremes, helicoptering is the side to swing to when in doubt.

So right! That should end this discussion! lol

< p >

(...just for the record, yes I happen to be a big fan of paragraphs and use them often. However, as if it matters, I post to a number of forums -- one of which always takes OUT my paragraphs. Go figure. Sorry if I let this one slip by. I noticed all three of your comments mention paragraphs. I guess you really have a pet peeve about that .... heh, at least give me credit for knowing how to spell, unlieke sum peple woh typ on teh intrnet, write?

< / p >

As far as expecting my situation to "fit all" situations, that's hardly the case. I was only trying to give a different perspective.

//end of line

Karen - Good one!

I think rich people have nannies, don't they? They might be the OPPOSITE of helicopter parents. I think helicopter parents generally have a low sense of self worth and are desparately trying to make their kids into something big, important, blah, blah, blah because they felt like they never were important. I think they have such a high expectation of their children that they forget what their ultimate goals are as parents. And the children can't possibly meet those expectations so the parents continue to "make up" for that.

While extremes should always be avoided, having low expectations of our children is a form of neglect. If we do not talk about going to college, having a productive career and needing to be self supporting in a manner which they're used to - then who WILL introduce these ideas to them? I told my kids when they were very young that going to school and getting good grades was their 'job'. I told them that my husband and I would accept As and Bs, but Cs were not acceptable (unless they really were struggling in which case we'd get some extra help for them). Since they have good brains and are not challenged in any way - they have both done what we expect from them - As and Bs. I suspect that is because they were given rules about what was and wasn't acceptable from the time they started 2nd grade. These concepts of study, doing homework, etc., need to be embedded early on. The kid who grows up without tangible expectations from his/her parents is at a distinct disadvantage compared to the one that DOES.

There are involved parents and helicopter parents. Involved parents set expectation like: you will earn an A or a B (my parents did this). Helicopter parents attack and harass the teacher if little pumpkin did not receive the expected grade of A or B. Huge difference.

free on the range,

You are obviously wonderful, caring, and attentive parents. You deserve the love and devotion that your spouse in giving to you. Don't mistake this for the overbearing parents who seem to need to steer their growing children to paths that they themselves feel they should lead. I assure that you are not a burden to her but rather a wonderful gift that she will always treasure.

Thank you for your wisdom and a little glimpse of what many of us have forgotten what marriage and raising a family is all about.

Thank you for your kind words. We try to do our best and there are many wonderful people I have met in our life journey. Gratitude is the best word I can think of right now. This may be a bit off topic so I do apologize.

Good for you free on the range. I think I would have been more succesful in all aspects of life if I had been allowed to just take care of things (like doing homework and studying) instead of having my mom watch over me every second, criticizing me for getting 99% not 100%, going to school administrators over every grade she didn't like, etc. I wish I would have had a mom more like the type you describe yourself to be. The best way to learn and for many the only way to learn is from making mistakes.

"At least helicopter parents care about the well-being of their children."

Except for their emotional well-being.

Hey, I could be wrong, you didn't give much to go on, but you do sound pretty defensive there...

Did you go to college with them?

There's a lot of either/or thinking going on here. Being an indifferent parent isn't the only alternative to being a helicopter. Is that what motivates you to hover, the misperception that indifference is the only other approach? Or maybe it isn't really about the kids at all, but about the self-image of the hoverers.

People can be educated and still lack important skills such as social skills that keep from being successful. Congrats on being such an "awesome" parent. If you truly cared about the well-being of your kids you would back off. All I got from your posting is egotistical, defensive, selfish.

Why is the choice between a helicopter parent and a neglectful parent. I am neither one. I take care of my children. I love my children, but I do not try to control their lives. The most successful people in the world are the ones that are living the life they want to live, not trying to live a life that someone else wants them to live. Your children may have college degrees, but did you allow them to study what they wanted to study or did you tell them what to study? Are they in the career that they want to be in or did you tell them what profession to have? A good friend of mine in high school had helicopter parents, and he put a bullet through his head his junior year in college.

College degrees do not mean that your children are free from the harmful effects of helicopter parenting.

Helicopter parents are selfish. They want to keep their children dependent so they will feel needed. They justify their behavior by claiming they care about their children, but it is their own interests they are putting first.

I agree, Cassandra, we need to protect our daughters. Not only are they protected, in the end they know they were loved.

Excatly, at some point you are old enough to make your own decisions. It's so easy to blame your parents instead of taking the proactive approach and take responsability for yourself and your actions.

It might be out of print, but about 15 years ago there was a book called "Little house on the Freeway" that talks about getting your family out of the rat race. Never read it, but heard interviews and the concept is powerful and bold.