Seeded on Wed Jun 9, 2010 12:15 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
When a vet told Nancy Gates that her dog Arabella had heart problems, needed surgery and it would cost $500, she had no choice but to put her pet down.
I am fortunate enough to have pet insurance and to be able to afford the vet fees. My dog just had ear surgery yesterday and after the surgery, teeth cleaning, my other dog's annual exam, medicine for an ear infection, heartworm and flea medicine, I was out $1,200. I think I would be devastated if I couldn't afford to care for my 2 dogs the way I wanted to without respect for the money.
I have insurance for my pets I have 4 I think that the government should give tax breaks to those who have animals and have to take care of them. I know that they are animals but some of us think of them as members of the family. Just my thoughts!
Especially the elderly and disabled should be entitled to veterinary discounts (not tax breaks because many live on fixed incomes and are not required to pay taxes). Pets are often their sole companionship.
My pets are family members. And they are no more or less animals than we.
It’s worth noting that a good chunk of vets recommend and/or sell foods that are known to cause health issues. The typical high-grain content foods offered and suggested by vets cause dental and gastrointestinal issues in many animals. If you think about it, it’s in their financial interests to sell you products that force you to keep coming back for their services. (For back-up of this statement, check out the nutrition articles at www.twobitdog.com)
I only wish I’d known this $850 dollars ago.
I fed my 8 year old cats a high-grain “prescription” food for seven years at the advice of my vet (who I’m sure was making $$$ off my purchase of that overpriced garbage!).
The female developed dental problems this year that necessitated the extraction of three teeth on top of the two she lost on her own. Then a couple of weeks later, she developed chronic diarrhea. We had her in the vet two more times with lots of samples. She could never find an infection, but we shoved close to 60 pills down her throat over the course of several weeks anyway. Nothing helped.
I seriously considered taking her to a holistic vet until I found out that the initial visit would cost $200 plus whatever special food and supplements she recommended. The thought of being out over a $1,000 on this cat when we weren’t even half way through the year made me sick. Then again, that I was putting a price on my cat’s health made me ill too.
I finally decided to do some research myself, and I learned a ton about feline nutrition. I finally found the answer for my cat in the form of a grain, chicken, and fish-free food from Natural Balance. It’s actually less expensive that the crap my vet used to sell me and my cats are thriving on it.
I'm not totally anti-vet, but I will never listen to nutrition advice from one again.
Wow I don't think I've ever encountered a post before where every single line is either a lie or an ignorant statement. Let's analyze each one individually:
Veterinarians are the highest paid specialists in the country.
They make 4x what medical doctors earn.
False. Veterinarians make consistently less than medical doctors make, although this gap is rapidly closing according to the AVMA.
Moreover, they have relatively little overhead (compared to MDs), and do not carry malpractice insurance.
False. They have greater overhead compared to MDs and every veterinarian carries malpractice insurance.
Think your vet is compassionate? More likely he/she sees $$$ whenever you walk through the door.
If I wasn't compassionate towards animals, I wouldn't be spending $200,000 to go to veterinary medical school to ultimate make considerably less money than other medical professions. Every single veterinarian or student that I know does it because they love animals, particularly moreso than people :).
Unfortunately, there is no governmental oversight of veterinary medicine
Blatantly false. There is an enormous amount of governmental oversight in veterinary medicine, especially in agriculture. I don't even know where to begin with this one. What you probably meant was that there are less frivolous malpractice lawsuits. But then again, your circular logic is so convoluted that I wouldn't dare to presume what the hell the point you were trying to actually convey was.
I have had many kinds of pets all my life...only in the last few years has the vet care become almost unmanageable. Vet care for felines has increased by 117% in the last two years. My vet is very good and compassionate, but I always swallow hard when I go to the desk to pay my bill. One thing he does have at the desk is a "fur & feathers" jar....a donation jar for those less fortunate.
I agree it is kind of a non-story. Most pet owners really love their pets and would do everything for them but it does get very pricey and sometimes we have to make difficult decisions. We have 2 dogs and a cat. Everytime we take them to the vet, even for routine stuff, we can't seem to get out of there for less than 100.00 minimum.. Our 6 yr old dog just had a bug of some kind and it was 400.00 for exam, bloodwork and xray... plus some horse pills they gave us and special food which he wouldn't touch but the cat is eating. HA HA It's very costly, more than human care and it does go up every year. Most vets will work out some kind of payment plan if you are a long term customer and need some major stuff like surgery done. Still it hurts!!
I am currently a student of veterinary medicine, and prior to that I have worked in the veterinary field for many years.
I have seen many cases where people simply cannot afford the cost of the medical care for their pet, and a tough decision has to be made. What this story fails to mention is the fact that most veterinarians are reasonable people, and will work out payment plans with people that cannot afford expensive medical procedures. Additionally, most specialist vets that you would find charging for a procedure that would cost $5,000, as referenced here, will accept some form of care credit to help their clients afford it. Think expensive orthopedic surgery, diagnostics, etc. - a person should not be expected to shell out 5 grand right away.
Additionally, my own philosophical perspective on the matter is as follows: Individuals who work in a profession in which moral decisions are made every day should take it upon themselves to perform pro bono work when necessary - such as lawyers, M.Ds, and D.V.Ms. Don't get me wrong, my vet school student loans will be nearly $200,000 by the time I pay them off. Veterinary medicine is a highly specialized field. Vets do things that no one else can, they go to school for a very long time to learn how to do it, so you're damn right that they should be paid a lot in return. But we should make money where we can and when necessary we should do the right thing. For example, if an elderly couple came to me and their dog had a condition that was treatable but without expensive treatment would cause a great deal of suffering, and they had this dog for his entire life - then OF COURSE I would make a deal with them to save their dogs life if they couldn't afford it.
I will not euthanize an animal for a condition that is medically treatable - within reason of course. Other vets will - so go to them, because I'll be able to sleep at night over it. Every case is unique and moral decisions have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but in the event that it comes down to money or the animal dying, there is no price to the value of life. I will work with the client, and in certain circumstances I think it is completely acceptable for a medical professional to take on a case completely for free. I consider it a form of charity.
Remember, vets aren't monsters - we want to help your pet first and foremost, and we want to help you as well. But you've got to support us in return or we can't do that. Veterinary medical care is a two-way street people.
I find it interesting that the people interviewed in this story continue getting new pets. If you could not afford $500 to save the life of one pet, what makes you think you deserve to go out and get a new, hopefully healthy, pet? I have two adopted animals. They are both older and both require special care. I realize now that when I adopted them, I was not considering the possibility of illnesses, etc. Thankfully I do have the funds to care for them (including emergencies). Just because you want a dog or cat doesn't mean you have the right to one, especially if you cannot afford to care for them. And any pet you do take is potentially being stripped of a full life had someone with the means to care for them adopted them instead.
I couldn't afford to pay medical bills for MYSELF at $5,000 a pop, are you kidding? Nor can most people. If it weren't for my health insurance, a recent car accident would've bankrupted me for sure. It's a good thing you can pull thousands of dollars out of mid-air. Most people can't. And a fair number wouldn't pay out the nose just to have their pet suffer anyway.
And a fair number wouldn't pay out the nose just to have their pet suffer anyway.
I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood this sentence (since the rest of your post seemed somewhat rational and all), but it seems to me that you are suggesting that transient suffering with the possibility of future well-being, happiness, and long life is less preferable to euthanasia in the instance where an owner can afford medical care for their elderly pet but doesn't wish to pursue it. Please elaborate.
And as I pointed out in my above post, a vet bill of $5,000 is most commonly associated with specialist procedures. Most specialist vets offer a method of care credit and do not expect you to pay that entire sum up front - similar to insurance in a way. Additionally, most people that seek specialist veterinary care not only love their pets unconditionally but also have the funds for expensive medical care in the first place. That is a dualism that is not encountered much in an rDVM practice. What regular DVM do you think would charge a 5k bill, exactly? That suggests that you are fundamentally unfamiliar with how much veterinary care typically costs.
I have price resistance @ $50 for cats and $2-300 for dogs! What we do with our time and money says everything about us and we have become obsessed with pets and treat people like crap!! National disgrace, it's wrong and you need to seek help soon! PETA should be a sick act at a carnival!
Wow. Words cannot express what a disappointing specimen of the human race you are. You don't like animals? Fine. Don't have one then. Or better yet, don't waste your time reading the article and then posting your idiotic and hateful response to it.
If you have an animal and refuse to seek basic preventative medical care for them, then that is cruelty by medical neglect. Not to mention the fact that you are exposing yourself to potential zoonoses. What pleasure could you get from the human-animal bond, if you don't wish to take care of them? My only hope is that you don't ever decide to own a pet, for your own health and for the animals' as well.
Last night I was faced with exactly the circumstances of this article. Our beloved Thor had been having digestive problems for a couple weeks. We went to our vet and the initial treatment seemed to address the issues - Thor was himself almost immediately. Unfortunately that didn't last. Yesterday morning we awoke to vomit and a VERY sick dog. Previously, Thor would be peppy and have a normal apetite, but not this time. This time he refused all food and treats. He just laid on the floor next to the bed, refusing to budge.
The day progressed and nothing changed. At 4pm I forced Thor to go outside - he pottied and drank lots of water, and immediately returned to the bedroom. Long story short - we found ourselves at the emergency vet late in the afternoon. A battery of tests were recommended and we selected wisely. The initial estimate was over $1800. After the tests came back it was found that he most likely had a perferation in his gastro-intestinal track, he had sepsis, a high fever from the infection, and was dehydrated. The estimate for care rose to $6,000 - $8,000 for exploratory surgery and after care. Without insurance we were forced to make the decision to say goodbye. I know that it was the right thing. I know that Thor was a dog, not my child. I know that he was 9 years old and may not have had a large number of years ahead of him. Knowing all of that does nothing to remove the feelings of guilt and remorse. Would I have pursued treatment if I had the financial means - maybe, maybe not. But NOT being able to consider that option because of $$$ hurts profoundly.
This isn't an easy situation and I feel fortunate that I wrestled with these considerations over the care of my beloved pet. Many find themselves making these same decisions for the care of their mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, or spouses. It's horrific that we are not doing more to address that problem!!!
Nonstory, period. To all the cash-strapped idiots out there, do not get a pet.
what an ass you are.
patA; not an ass, a troll. Why even read the story, much less respond to it?
TMFT: Too Much Free Time!
I am fortunate enough to have pet insurance and to be able to afford the vet fees. My dog just had ear surgery yesterday and after the surgery, teeth cleaning, my other dog's annual exam, medicine for an ear infection, heartworm and flea medicine, I was out $1,200. I think I would be devastated if I couldn't afford to care for my 2 dogs the way I wanted to without respect for the money.
I have insurance for my pets I have 4 I think that the government should give tax breaks to those who have animals and have to take care of them. I know that they are animals but some of us think of them as members of the family. Just my thoughts!
.
Especially the elderly and disabled should be entitled to veterinary discounts (not tax breaks because many live on fixed incomes and are not required to pay taxes). Pets are often their sole companionship.
My pets are family members. And they are no more or less animals than we.
.
This is kind of a “duh” story to me.
It’s worth noting that a good chunk of vets recommend and/or sell foods that are known to cause health issues. The typical high-grain content foods offered and suggested by vets cause dental and gastrointestinal issues in many animals. If you think about it, it’s in their financial interests to sell you products that force you to keep coming back for their services. (For back-up of this statement, check out the nutrition articles at www.twobitdog.com)
I only wish I’d known this $850 dollars ago.
I fed my 8 year old cats a high-grain “prescription” food for seven years at the advice of my vet (who I’m sure was making $$$ off my purchase of that overpriced garbage!).
The female developed dental problems this year that necessitated the extraction of three teeth on top of the two she lost on her own. Then a couple of weeks later, she developed chronic diarrhea. We had her in the vet two more times with lots of samples. She could never find an infection, but we shoved close to 60 pills down her throat over the course of several weeks anyway. Nothing helped.
I seriously considered taking her to a holistic vet until I found out that the initial visit would cost $200 plus whatever special food and supplements she recommended. The thought of being out over a $1,000 on this cat when we weren’t even half way through the year made me sick. Then again, that I was putting a price on my cat’s health made me ill too.
I finally decided to do some research myself, and I learned a ton about feline nutrition. I finally found the answer for my cat in the form of a grain, chicken, and fish-free food from Natural Balance. It’s actually less expensive that the crap my vet used to sell me and my cats are thriving on it.
I'm not totally anti-vet, but I will never listen to nutrition advice from one again.
.
It’s a dirty little secret.
Veterinarians are the highest paid specialists in the country.
They make 4x what medical doctors earn.
Moreover, they have relatively little overhead (compared to MDs), and do not carry malpractice insurance.
Think your vet is compassionate? More likely he/she sees $$$ whenever you walk through the door.
Unfortunately, there is no governmental oversight of veterinary medicine.
.
You sir are completely full of crap.
Wow I don't think I've ever encountered a post before where every single line is either a lie or an ignorant statement. Let's analyze each one individually:
False. Veterinarians make consistently less than medical doctors make, although this gap is rapidly closing according to the AVMA.
False. They have greater overhead compared to MDs and every veterinarian carries malpractice insurance.
If I wasn't compassionate towards animals, I wouldn't be spending $200,000 to go to veterinary medical school to ultimate make considerably less money than other medical professions. Every single veterinarian or student that I know does it because they love animals, particularly moreso than people :).
Blatantly false. There is an enormous amount of governmental oversight in veterinary medicine, especially in agriculture. I don't even know where to begin with this one. What you probably meant was that there are less frivolous malpractice lawsuits. But then again, your circular logic is so convoluted that I wouldn't dare to presume what the hell the point you were trying to actually convey was.
I have had many kinds of pets all my life...only in the last few years has the vet care become almost unmanageable. Vet care for felines has increased by 117% in the last two years. My vet is very good and compassionate, but I always swallow hard when I go to the desk to pay my bill. One thing he does have at the desk is a "fur & feathers" jar....a donation jar for those less fortunate.
I agree it is kind of a non-story. Most pet owners really love their pets and would do everything for them but it does get very pricey and sometimes we have to make difficult decisions. We have 2 dogs and a cat. Everytime we take them to the vet, even for routine stuff, we can't seem to get out of there for less than 100.00 minimum.. Our 6 yr old dog just had a bug of some kind and it was 400.00 for exam, bloodwork and xray... plus some horse pills they gave us and special food which he wouldn't touch but the cat is eating. HA HA It's very costly, more than human care and it does go up every year. Most vets will work out some kind of payment plan if you are a long term customer and need some major stuff like surgery done. Still it hurts!!
I am currently a student of veterinary medicine, and prior to that I have worked in the veterinary field for many years.
I have seen many cases where people simply cannot afford the cost of the medical care for their pet, and a tough decision has to be made. What this story fails to mention is the fact that most veterinarians are reasonable people, and will work out payment plans with people that cannot afford expensive medical procedures. Additionally, most specialist vets that you would find charging for a procedure that would cost $5,000, as referenced here, will accept some form of care credit to help their clients afford it. Think expensive orthopedic surgery, diagnostics, etc. - a person should not be expected to shell out 5 grand right away.
Additionally, my own philosophical perspective on the matter is as follows: Individuals who work in a profession in which moral decisions are made every day should take it upon themselves to perform pro bono work when necessary - such as lawyers, M.Ds, and D.V.Ms. Don't get me wrong, my vet school student loans will be nearly $200,000 by the time I pay them off. Veterinary medicine is a highly specialized field. Vets do things that no one else can, they go to school for a very long time to learn how to do it, so you're damn right that they should be paid a lot in return. But we should make money where we can and when necessary we should do the right thing. For example, if an elderly couple came to me and their dog had a condition that was treatable but without expensive treatment would cause a great deal of suffering, and they had this dog for his entire life - then OF COURSE I would make a deal with them to save their dogs life if they couldn't afford it.
I will not euthanize an animal for a condition that is medically treatable - within reason of course. Other vets will - so go to them, because I'll be able to sleep at night over it. Every case is unique and moral decisions have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but in the event that it comes down to money or the animal dying, there is no price to the value of life. I will work with the client, and in certain circumstances I think it is completely acceptable for a medical professional to take on a case completely for free. I consider it a form of charity.
Remember, vets aren't monsters - we want to help your pet first and foremost, and we want to help you as well. But you've got to support us in return or we can't do that. Veterinary medical care is a two-way street people.
I find it interesting that the people interviewed in this story continue getting new pets. If you could not afford $500 to save the life of one pet, what makes you think you deserve to go out and get a new, hopefully healthy, pet? I have two adopted animals. They are both older and both require special care. I realize now that when I adopted them, I was not considering the possibility of illnesses, etc. Thankfully I do have the funds to care for them (including emergencies). Just because you want a dog or cat doesn't mean you have the right to one, especially if you cannot afford to care for them. And any pet you do take is potentially being stripped of a full life had someone with the means to care for them adopted them instead.
I couldn't afford to pay medical bills for MYSELF at $5,000 a pop, are you kidding? Nor can most people. If it weren't for my health insurance, a recent car accident would've bankrupted me for sure. It's a good thing you can pull thousands of dollars out of mid-air. Most people can't. And a fair number wouldn't pay out the nose just to have their pet suffer anyway.
I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood this sentence (since the rest of your post seemed somewhat rational and all), but it seems to me that you are suggesting that transient suffering with the possibility of future well-being, happiness, and long life is less preferable to euthanasia in the instance where an owner can afford medical care for their elderly pet but doesn't wish to pursue it. Please elaborate.
And as I pointed out in my above post, a vet bill of $5,000 is most commonly associated with specialist procedures. Most specialist vets offer a method of care credit and do not expect you to pay that entire sum up front - similar to insurance in a way. Additionally, most people that seek specialist veterinary care not only love their pets unconditionally but also have the funds for expensive medical care in the first place. That is a dualism that is not encountered much in an rDVM practice. What regular DVM do you think would charge a 5k bill, exactly? That suggests that you are fundamentally unfamiliar with how much veterinary care typically costs.
I have price resistance @ $50 for cats and $2-300 for dogs! What we do with our time and money says everything about us and we have become obsessed with pets and treat people like crap!! National disgrace, it's wrong and you need to seek help soon! PETA should be a sick act at a carnival!
Wow. Words cannot express what a disappointing specimen of the human race you are. You don't like animals? Fine. Don't have one then. Or better yet, don't waste your time reading the article and then posting your idiotic and hateful response to it.
If you have an animal and refuse to seek basic preventative medical care for them, then that is cruelty by medical neglect. Not to mention the fact that you are exposing yourself to potential zoonoses. What pleasure could you get from the human-animal bond, if you don't wish to take care of them? My only hope is that you don't ever decide to own a pet, for your own health and for the animals' as well.
Last night I was faced with exactly the circumstances of this article. Our beloved Thor had been having digestive problems for a couple weeks. We went to our vet and the initial treatment seemed to address the issues - Thor was himself almost immediately. Unfortunately that didn't last. Yesterday morning we awoke to vomit and a VERY sick dog. Previously, Thor would be peppy and have a normal apetite, but not this time. This time he refused all food and treats. He just laid on the floor next to the bed, refusing to budge.
The day progressed and nothing changed. At 4pm I forced Thor to go outside - he pottied and drank lots of water, and immediately returned to the bedroom. Long story short - we found ourselves at the emergency vet late in the afternoon. A battery of tests were recommended and we selected wisely. The initial estimate was over $1800. After the tests came back it was found that he most likely had a perferation in his gastro-intestinal track, he had sepsis, a high fever from the infection, and was dehydrated. The estimate for care rose to $6,000 - $8,000 for exploratory surgery and after care. Without insurance we were forced to make the decision to say goodbye. I know that it was the right thing. I know that Thor was a dog, not my child. I know that he was 9 years old and may not have had a large number of years ahead of him. Knowing all of that does nothing to remove the feelings of guilt and remorse. Would I have pursued treatment if I had the financial means - maybe, maybe not. But NOT being able to consider that option because of $$$ hurts profoundly.
This isn't an easy situation and I feel fortunate that I wrestled with these considerations over the care of my beloved pet. Many find themselves making these same decisions for the care of their mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, or spouses. It's horrific that we are not doing more to address that problem!!!