Kansas man and wife accused of running painkiller 'pill mill'
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comDoctor tied to 68 overdose deaths found guilty
Seeded on Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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Before the usual suspects "hang" this doc, you guys do realize it's THE LAW (thank you stupid bureaucrats) to treat "PAIN". Even when us docs suspect the patient is lying. Change the damn law!
So what specific changes to the law do you propose?
frodobaggins
Let me see if I understand this.
Allegedly, I am a patient with severe chronic pain. I need painkillers because of the severe pain I am experiencing.
I go to the doctor and tell him I'm in constant horrific pain and the doctor has to prescribe me pain killers - is that right?!
Would it be possible to provide a link to this " pain law" that you are referring too?!
have you ever really been in 24/7 intractable pain?
i am, most drs consider the amount of pain killers im on as a deadly level, and it is as a first dose. but i built up that level over more than a 7 year time period. with each dose after a time limit it didnt lower the pain level anymore so the amount of medicine had to be increased.
i went into the hospital and the doc who saw me thought the amount i was taking should be fatal. well its not, but at this point the pain is just barely below the surface now when any other pain that comes up breaks thru it pretty much disables me from being able to do anything.
i have to sleep for over 16 hours a day now, thats the only time im out of pain, trust me thats not much of a life.
now we will lose medical coverage with the new obama thing. the one pain med alone is over $ 1,800 a month the other is over $ 740 a month.
im unemployed, been trying for disability for over 2 years, wife works 2 jobs her total pay wont even pay for the first med. so what am i supposed to do? i cant rob banks, people, or businesses, i cant steal the meds, so when we lose the medical coverage i only have 1 option left to me, so ive got a handfull of the largest pain meds set aside for that bad day.
some people are in real bad pain and desperately need these pain killers.
i am one of those people. to be blunt when i cant get them anymore i have to end it myself.
the pain is that bad, and now were about to lose medical coverage because of this obama medical bill, so that does me in.
Like this is news as we see Rand Paul gave himself a Doctor's license because he couldn't pass the Board test. Senator Brownback looks at a video to give medical treatment without ever seeing the patient. We have more quacks as Law Makers, that's why rich people go overseas for medical care it's safer and less cost. Sarah Palin suggest NO for Universal Heath Care for America because she get's free health care in Canada and didn't feel people in the US needed it. Our Law Makers have the best health care that the taxpayers pay the premiums. Like Senator Glassy said let people die if they get sick it's not the Govenments problem but just keep paying for the Law Makers full coverage.
I really don't know why Obama is fighting so hard for all Americans when it seems they really don't want his help and would rather have Bush/Cheney back in office to continue to rob the US Treasury and increas taxes.
Jackierawlings. You need to check your sources as much of your information is incorrect. One statement you made is totally opposite of the truth. You to say that people are leaving this country to get care. The opposite is true! People from all over the world come here to the U.S. for care.
The U.S. system isn't perfect but it is the best medical care in the world.
Are you simply mistaken or are you off your meds?
j,,, Alaska is a State,,, not "in Canada". you are hallucinating, again.
As an ICU/ER nurse, I've always maintained - and always will - that we can boast about our health care delivery system until we turn blue in the face. But when a health care system delivers the goods based on the patient's ability to pay and NOT on his/her medical needs, then our medical "care" becomes the worst medical care in the world, no ifs and buts about it. I've witnessed the disparity for nearly 20 years, and I've heard excuses from all sectors of the health care system. The truth is we all want a piece of the great pie that we feel we've worked so hard for; the bigger the piece, the better. Greed takes over humanity and bull@!$%# walks. You may disagree and that is your prerogative; we're all entitled to our opinion. A good day to all, got to head to work.
I don't want bush or obama
The sad part is, that those who really need pain medications, are treated like drug users. The drug users are given anything they want. With so much crap in the world today, we really need to look at this a bit closer.
In my opinion, we SHOULD give drug users ANY AND ALL that they can consume. Did you know, if you go to Walmart and buy 3in1 oil, you have to show I.D. Because stupid kids are sucking it up their nose to get high!
No matter what we do to stop this insane actions, by so few MINDLESS IDIOTS, they will keep finding better ways to screw themselves up. SO WHY BOTHER?
Give them ANYTHING they want, let them kill themselves off and it will be 1 less idiot to worry about.
People say "We have to PROTECT the kids" I say, "If the kids are this friggen stupid now, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE LIKE WHEN THEY GROW UP?"
We really need FEWER @!$%#s in the future!
My brother has been a prescription drug addict for decades. I don't know if I should blame the doctors who prescribe him 200 pain pills at a time, or him for seeking them out to do it for him. He has a medical condition that requires pain pills, but he takes 4 or 5 times the amount written on the bottle.....when we call the doctors to explain whats going on, they just blow us off. He looks like a concentration camp victim.....don't the doctors notice????? They just keep giving him more and more and more.................
With all due respect, if you think your brother looks like a concentration camp victim, why do you let his doctors blow you off? Why don't you report them? "First, do no harm" - but it looks like these health care professionals ARE harming your brother! Speak up, don't let anyone's credentials intimidate you, and good luck to you and yours. :-)
Dear Mickey1456937, the doctors say we don't have the right to information on our brother. We have contacted agencies, they have no answers, we have tried to take his meds when he is "out", but now he carries them in his pockets.....he does not want help. Thanks for your words of encouragement though, it is appreciated.
Does that mean we lock away all the doctors and throw away the key? We cannot blame the smallest one at the bottom. I am telling you this is our government at it's best. It's all red tape, it's all about money and power. And God talks about this in the Bible, so take it for what it's worth....
I find this hard to imagine. When I had a biopsy on a tumor on my head, the surgeon prescribed 2 Zanax: 1 for the night before and 1 for an hour before the surgery. When I told him that it was the best sleep I had had in months, his response was "Well don't get used to it because you are never getting any more of those. They are just too addictive." My doctors hate to prescribe anything that is not absolutely necessary, including antibiotics.
some bacteria can develop immunity to antibiotics easily. Frequent antibiotics is a bad idea.
Consider yourself lucky; not all doctors are like yours. However, we simply cannot put all the blame on them. As patients, most of us would feel short-handed if we didn't come out of the doc's office without a prescription.. or some samples at least! Many of us don't want to give our body time to heal itself, so we run to the doc demanding some magic pill. If we catch a virus, we run for antibiotics in order to prevent some secondary bacterial infection, then as soon as we feel better we stop taking them and help create some new superbug.... yikes! We need to educate ourselves, become informed patients and consumers.
mickey-1456937
Hate to disagree with you, but every time I went to the doctor because of upper respitory problems, I was AUTOMATICALLY given an antibiotic, "because its must be a sinus infection." These doctors NEVER ONCE did a throat swap and culture a gram stain to determine IF it was viral or bacterial. THEY just handed out antibiotics like candy! Look at almost all larger pharmacies today, they literally GIVE away most antibiotics.
I asked a doctor to do a gram stain and his reply was "For what?" Another doctor told me that the sinuses are a very hard area to treat, since they are so tight, there is little blood flow there and NORMAL antibiotics just cant get enough medicine in there to kill off the bacteria, he prescribed a heavy duty antibiotic (Z-Pac) for at least 14 days, double the normal dose and time.
I have had this confrotation with multiple doctors, not just 1 or 2 and their opinions rarely varied. They under treat serious conditions, then overtreat the simple.
This is why I refuse to see any more QUACKS!. I just dont go to the doctor anymore!
Sure; prosecute this guy on made up charges, but excuse those M.D.s prescribing pot for "pain". If the patient is in pain, or claims to be, the M.D. must prescribe for relief. The problem here is that the liberal judges have no payola from doctors like they have from drug dealers??? Get that rich doctor. He is using his 20 years of formal education and his 16 hour days to make a good living. No jealousy, though.
Ah, Kansas! The state that gets all knicker-twisted over teens with raging hormones and a woman's right to choose but lets medical fraud/homocide slide by for how long?
Betty, I am not for 1 second doubting what you wrote. But I am confessing to be puzzled. I have no problem getting virtually all the Xanax I wish. At present I have at a minimum 60 tabs on hand. I take it for a panic disorder/PTSD, have done for years. I have never felt even close to becoming addicted. At present I may take a tab every few months.
I realized everyone has an idiosyncratic physiology and attitude toward drugs. I also know how how I worked to reclaim my life after others tried to take it. Still, the ado over Xanax leaves me with questions.
Did you doctor even try to explore your risk factors with you?
Whether the doctor and his wife are responsible for all the deaths are just some, is irrelevant. The attorney's arguement was weak on that. The fact that he was called the "Candy Man" let's you know that he was loose with prescribing. As a pain management doctor, he should have recognized the signs of addiction. If one of 2 people died, he's still responsible and therefore should be punished. Oh yeah, he also laundered money .
I see nothing wrong with what the doctor did. If you're in that much pain death is likely welcome, and if you're addicted death is also welcome.
It's time we cracked down on the the doctors that are getting people hooked on these drugs. There are people who are in severe pain that need the drugs. There are many more that are nothing but prescription drug abusers.
I didn't give much weight to the "Candy Man" story. This sounds like a patient just making an off-hand comment/joke. The big thing that wasn't explained was the medical examiner supposedly was not doing full autopsies and declaring OD if he found high levels of drugs- Duh! These folks are chronic pain patients, they are going to have significantly higher levels of drugs in their system anyway. With no further data given in the story, it looks like the ME was just guessing instead of doing his job. This is Kansas (right up there with South Carolina and OK.) so a little knee-jerk reaction would not seem out of the question on the total number of ODs.
The DRs practice sounds like it was sort of a sloppy mess with some questionable operations anyway though.
The DEA likes to go after pain doctors instead of real drug dealers because it's a lot safer for them---nobody at the doctor's office is likely to shoot at them---and doctors have property the government can seize. There's a huge difference between addiction and physical dependence, which is what develops when people take opiate painkillers over a period of time. Addiction is not only withdrawals when the drug is stopped, but also continued use despite negative consequences in one's life.
The story that doctors "get people hooked on pills" is a crock, for the most part. Sure some of the patients who do get into trouble with medication blame the doctors, but very few are so naive that it was all the doctor's fault. If a patient gets addicted the vast majority have a hand in their condition. Usually they've at least lied to the doctor about the extent of their pain in order to keep getting prescriptions.
Most of the patients seeing pain doctors are legitimately in pain and it's almost impossible to find doctors who are willing to stand up to the DEA and prescribe enough medication to keep them functioning. I can't even fathom what these doctor's patients went through when what was probably the only thing that kept them out of bed was taken away. And other doctors, seeing the examply of what happens when you prescribe generously, aren't going to be willing to take them on. I hope that when people start committing suicide because they can't get their pain treated adequately, at least some of them get very public about their plight before they do so. That's the only thing that will make the government stop this draconian punishing of doctors is enough bad press that most people stop buying the lie that pain patients are all addicts and any doctor who has any kind of empathy is a drug pusher.
You all know the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes", Some of you would kill yourselves after a week walking in my shoes. Thank God I have a doctor who believes me and has compassion.
The Truth will never be known if this Doc and his wife were just in this for the money, my guess there was a real role of trying to relieve suffering and they are getting screwed. But hey welcome to America the land where cops and prosecutor think that it's OK to lie because they are doing God's work... putting away the bad guys. Trust me when I tell you they are not doing God's work by breaking God's law, "Thou shall not lie", And yes I have seen them even prepping witnesses to lie in the hall right out side the court room.
There is no justice in this land any more, unless you got the bucks!
It's not the law to treat pain by prescribing potent drugs to patients without adequate physicals first. That's the standard. Using "it's the law" is a naive excuse for script-writing doctors with little scruples.
Can you say quack-quack? Not only was this "doctor" found guilty of being responsible for the deaths, but also of money laundering. And, hey, it was by a jury. Isn't that amazing!!!!
Your local Pusher Man, Mr/Mrs MD
Too many parts of this story just don't come together.
Candy Man??? Right! That was some dopehead saving his own butt.
And I'll bet that one of the OD's was some relative of some political big shot.
As for the OD's - the directions are on the bottle. The doc has no control over how many they actually take. And when they come back for the refill - the abusers always have some soap story about spilling them in the toilet, blah, blah, blah.
Dopeheads are dopeheads and they are going to do or say what ever they have to do or say to get their fix.
Sure there are bad apples in any profession. But blaming the doc for the drug head going OD is a reach. Even if he prescribed 5000 pills - I'll bet the dosage instructions still said one a day. And if the dopehead takes 10 - that is his problem - not the docs.
So - hold the doc and his wife out for all to see what really bad, bad people they are. And if they did launder money - what is it that they have done that every politician hasn't?
1
A 26-year-old man with a horribly painful eye condition, incurable despite several operations, was unable to get painkillers from his doctors. They said they didn't want him to become addicted. About a year after I met him, he killed himself with a shotgun. He's not just an isolated example. Our culture has apparently taken the position, whether it realizes it or not, that being an addict is worse than being dead.
Some people need painkillers in order to have any kind of life. I was so pleased when this was shown in the t.v. show House. Some probably complained that they were glorifying drugs. After a couple seasons they turned him into a "drug addict" who didn't really need the drugs. That's the prevailing narrative about pain. And it's wrong!
I am a person with severe chronic spinal pain.there is a simple solution to this problem if every state require pain mg.doc's must take the extra step to be able to hang a sign out as a pain mg.doc.mine went as far as he needed to and has the best rep.in this county.he finished his pain.mg.degree as a fellow at mass.general.one of the best in this country.drug addicts don't visit his office more than once.first thing you do is sign the federal reg.page.Better read it,it can put you in jail if you lie.second,you r not going to get pain meds from him the first visit and maybe not at all.he trys everything else first.you have to have or be ordered to have the test needed to properly confirm you problem.you also have urine test when they ask.no excuses!his test not only checks for street drugs,he checks for the meds he has given you and the level in your body.you see him every month.his nurses can ask to count your meds anytime they want too.your count better match with the number of days along with the level in your body.If you have to go to another doc for some other problem,you must tell his nurses so they can document it.so simple.all they have to do is practice by the law.they make a lot of money.they r also very respected with the other doc's.we have had several doc mills here.they do not last long.people like me will report them if we find out(for sure)that is what is happening.
we need our doc's to take care of us.we are a group that will never what we consider a "normal"life.we do the best we can from day to day.as pain people we have to realize that no doc can or should give you so much medication to kill all of your pain.real chronic pain never goes away.It is there 24/7.we deal with it each day and hope the day gives us a level that we can stay out of the bed and do something productive.I was an r.n. for many yrs.When I was told I had to go home or risk a wheel chair or something worse it killed me.
I have learned many ways to focus on other things.there r those days that the pain is so bad you take your meds and spend the day down.
as I said,there is a simple solution if each state and the docs followed the rules.If not the day will come that people like me maybe left to suffer.
There is something not right with this case, and it has the feeling of a Salem Witchhunt. It is not a doctor fault addicts are in such MENTAL pain, they fake their symptoms. They are masters of it. I was married to one and I know how devious an addict can be - fooling everyone. I have also been in severe pain, and am grateful for my doctors who tried to relieve my pain with heavy narcotics, and I did not become addicted. The drugs served me during my time of pain, in order to bear the agony of the endless minutes in excruciating back spasms. I need to know a lot more about this case, but my gut reaction is the doctor does not have the motivation which would be deemed illegal and this is the outcome of overzealous persecution of an oblique cause, rather than look at the oxymorons as in the Night of the Living Dead. Drug Addicts are no longer human, as such as what you and I know. They operate from the animal brain - solely - reduced to hunger/need. That is their only focus. And they are in a very dark place which they created for themselves. And many never find there way out. This doctor listened to their pain, which is very real to an addict, and prescribed as if they were telling the truth. Let me underscore just how good an addict can lie. And if you don't know this, you have not known an addict.
he seems to be doing what military doctors are doing with soldiers on the battlefield with ptsd. they are taking meds and sleep aids with little oversight (as opposed to group and individual therapy which seems better in the longrun) and has been a concern with high homicide and suicide rates among vets according to reports on PBS. when are these doctors going to be scrutinized and held accountable, it seems like common practice even from the times of Elvis
Hey, it's not the doctor's fault! I mean, c'mon people, how does anyone expect a doctor, America's royalty, to struggle by on the mere $330,000 per year the average doctor makes? Jeez, the guy's gotta eat, right??
Spoken like a true Obama supporter who believes in spread the wealth and has class envy. Perhaps if you got an education and were dedicated to a career you would make $330,000 a year. If it makes you feel any better, your democratic buddies are going to tax the $hit out of doctors so they can give back to the "less fortunate" (aka: high school drop outs, teen moms, etc.). They are also cutting Medicare reimbursement to doctor by 20% because this spending spree we are on is bankrupting this entitlement program.
As a practicing physician myself, this just goes to show the lack of education physicians receive about addiction. My natural inclination is to support the doctor but I have to say that this sounds negligent at the least and probably criminal. I'm still not sure where the money laundering comes into play.
There's two cases. One, the guy is a drug dealer who gives out pills for money, and like it said he laundered it, which is illegal. Two, the guy is a complete idiot, who had no idea what he was doing. Either way, he deserves time.
I asked my doc for a pain medication prescription and had to sign a contract in regards to when I can have another and that I have to contact her if I were given any by another doctor and can only have them refilled at the pharmacy I chose the first time. Not all doctors are just handing them out anymore, I guess it depends on where you live and how much the doc cares about your welfare.
this doctor and his wife were making moneh on the side for sure and he got cought, they need to serve the time.