Childfree... I like that term. Childless sounds like an unfortunate condition for all those without children. But as you've shown, not everyone without children desires to have them... it varies from one couple to another.

I chose to remain childfree until I was in my (very) late 30's. I am one of those well-educated white women who decided to focus on my career and my relationship with my husband rather than rushing into having offspring. Finally deciding to have children was a very challenging decision for me. There was really no compelling reason I could see to do it other than selfish reasons, and so many reasons not to.

That said, I decided to take a dip in the gene pool and contribute to the propagation of my DNA. And selfishly speaking, I love my 2 girls so much it just stops my breath. I've never been happier about any decision I've made in my life. I used to think people who said you aren't a "full" person without kids were insane. I had a very full life. Now, my life is dedicated to my children, but I wouldn't change it. My heart has grown 10 times bigger. I have so much more compassion for others now, and a greater drive to care for people, not just my kids, but everyone. It is a life-altering experience.

I just wish everyone put more thought into whether or not to have children. The ones we do have would be cherished, and we'd have a lot more resources.

I used to think people who said you aren't a "full" person without kids were insane. I had a very full life. Now, my life is dedicated to my children, but I wouldn't change it. My heart has grown 10 times bigger. I have so much more compassion for others now, and a greater drive to care for people, not just my kids, but everyone. It is a life-altering experience.

-dys

Only a mother could convey this message as well as you have. A mother that thoughtfully put off procreation but later in life answered her maternal instinct.

If I'd have said it, it would have been dismissed but you are so right.

To me, the childFREE remain adolescent in so many ways and some revel in their immaturity and do seem to be "underdeveloped", not fully adults. They just don't know what they are missing.

I wouldn't want to raise a child in this country today. Teachers handing out condoms to kindergartners and first graders.... teaching kids to think of Obama as a deity or a king.... forcing gay rights down their little throats...

This world is not good enough for a child.

yeah this planet is screwed up to bring in a child. lots of parent now shouldnt be a parent to begin with, bad mouthing children now dressing up like sluts and thugs, kids nowaday have no respect.

no reason to bring a child into this world.

as the words of Dr. Laura. "Im sorry they brought you into this world, some people should not bring babies into this world"

Good. It's about time the trend turned away from producing more kids than people need to replace themselves. It's time for zero population growth and can't occur soon enough to stop humans from causing the destruction of the planet and themselves with overpopulation. All those countries that don't have or advocate birth control need to get with the program or suffer the consequences - of which there are many.

Yeah, I was trying to find a better word myself. I like child free! Wish I were!! :) But then I wouldn't have my awesome grandson so I will take it back.

Hey Rich....how do you think you got here??? How do you think the human race continues???

The devoping social ideology of aversion to having children is sick-minded and plainly mindless because people are a valuable species to this planet. Think again beyond yourself.

To me, the childFREE remain adolescent in so many ways and some revel in their immaturity and do seem to be "underdeveloped", not fully adults. They just don't know what they are missing.

As one of those "childFREE, underdeveloped, not fully adult" people, I can say that we know EXACTLY what we are missing. Many of us realize that we are not cut out to be parents, and are smart enough to refrain.

I see many more people WITH children who are not fully adults, treat their kids as "friends", and have no idea how to discipline or raise them than I see "underdeveloped" childless people. Look around the next time you get on a plane or go to a restaurant if you don't believe me!

The devoping social ideology of aversion to having children is sick-minded and plainly mindless because people are a valuable species to this planet. Think again beyond yourself.

I don't see how we are so valuable to this planet. Take a peek at the Gulf of Mexico! The human race has done more to destroy the planet than any other species! In fact, one of the BIGGEST problems we've created is overpopulation! With the earth in real danger because of that, voluntarily choosing NOT to add to the problem is hardly "sick minded" it's just as valid a choice as choosing to have children.

mr-arcadian-1548803 wrote "yeah this planet is screwed up to bring in a child."

This era is the safest, cleanest the US has ever known despite media messages that everyone will be murdered at least once in their lifetimes and every man is a criminal pedophile and that every woman is a super hero.

Many of us realize that we are not cut out to be parents, and are smart enough to refrain.

To those of you who realize you are not cut out for parenting, and never brought a child into this world to pay for it....Thank You for having more decency and compassion than a whole lot of other people whose kids do suffer the consequences! :)

Reproduction is, essentially, the meaning of life. But I think that with birth control technology men and women can still satisfy their biological imperatives to a reasonable extent (well, I suppose I can't speak for maternal instinct, having never experienced it) without the consequence of children. This is probably an improvement on the natural way. Besides, it's not like people are an endangered species. We live in a time now where you can choose to have kids or not, and the only negative side effect is disdain between the two groups (which is stupid).

Has the term and act of "adoption" suddenly become obsolete?

The devoping social ideology of aversion to having children is sick-minded and plainly mindless because people are a valuable species to this planet.Think again beyond yourself.

Yeah. Even if you don't want children, bring them into your family where you don't want them. Great plan.

To me, the childFREE remain adolescent in so many ways and some revel in their immaturity and do seem to be "underdeveloped", not fully adults. They just don't know what they are missing.

If you don't want children and don't have them, all you're missing is a life dealing with children you didn't want. You don't have to be "mature" to get pregnant and have children....sadly.

Think again beyond yourself.

Take your own advice. Also, respect your gender.

This article is misleading. Welfare benefits have been slashed. No more money for 'new additions', makes having more kids not worth it. I'm not being 'racist', just a realist. When Welfare is finally done away with all together (and I'll predict it will come to fruition within the next 5 to 10 years) the numbers will drop dramatically lower still...

If a male birth control pill would become available (one that worked like the female version), we would have a population crash.

To me, the childFREE remain adolescent in so many ways and some revel in their immaturity and do seem to be "underdeveloped", not fully adults. They just don't know what they are missing.

Quite the opposite. It takes a mature and wise person to realize that they are not cut out to be parents or to even admit to themselves that they don't want to have children and stand by their own convictions. Giving into societal pressure to have children simply because you are "supposed to" shows a lack of maturity and backbone.

I question the intelligence of anyone who listens to Dr. Laura.

If a male birth control pill would become available (one that worked like the female version), we would have a population crash.

With the world as over populated as it is now, the very thought of a "population crash" is laughable at best.

With the world as over populated as it is now, the very thought of a "population crash" is laughable at best.

Not really. I won't argue that we could stand to shed a couple billion people over time, but it does need to be somewhat gradual or else you are left with a substantial elderly population and nobody around to take care of them.

but it does need to be somewhat gradual or else you are left with a substantial elderly population and nobody around to take care of them.

Evidence?

Evidence?

Mathematics?

If you can't provide any evidence then your claim is non-legit.

X = the number of people required to take care of the elderly

Y = the number of people available to take care of the elderly

Z = the fractional reduction in Y

X = Y

X > Y * Z

I suppose we could depend on the mass production of assisted-living robots.

uhhhhh....EU anyone? Have ya heard the stories about their "aging population" and the issues it poses for them?

Yeah they don't have enough children to pay for their socialist support system. They have more issues with the fact that the Muslims are reproducing like rabits and living off the system.
(My wife is French so quite knowledgeable of the situation)

GimDan, Re the Muslims...are they illegal immigrants or just "career welfare"? Why the Muslims in particular?

France has a long tie with the Muslim countries in the past. It is similar to the situation that we have with legal and illegal aliens from south America. However since so many have made their way there things are getting hostile. They want to make it their own instead of following their host nations rules and customs. There are a lot of ghetto areas in all the EU countries where they are always causing problems. Fire and police do not go in certain parts of them because they get attacked. We don't see this on American TV but they are being over run.... A great deal of the legal immigrants are career welfare.

The devoping social ideology of aversion to having children is sick-minded and plainly mindless because people are a valuable species to this planet.Think again beyond yourself.

Yeah. Even if you don't want children, bring them into your family where you don't want them. Great plan.

***********************************************************

I chalk it up to a "misery loves company" mentality. People who make such comments are so miserable in their own lives, feel trapped by circumstances they believe they can't control and can't stand to see other people who appear to be happy and free in their lives.

I've known several people who waxed eloquent, getting warm and fuzzy about babies. Until they actually had them. Then they seemed not only frazzled, tired, etc but also regretful of their choice to have kids.

I am totally with you on that one. I think children are a strain on marriages because a lot of people are simply not up to the challenge but do it anyway because it's expected. Case in point. My husband and I don't have kids and we are very happy. I have one friend who is married no kids and is very happy also. My other friend with kids, although she will never admit it, isn't very happy. She just gets through the day. It's not the kids fault per se, but the fact that her husband doesn't help her enough with the kids and he doesn't contribute anything to their relationship. He just goes to work and then hangs out with his friends.

Sunshine, Do you suppose then if your friend had no kids her hubby would be a better guy and would contribute to their relationship?

Saturday my hubby and I celebrate 28 childFREE years and are very happy! We host exchange students, get involved with the community and school and in general support the young people of our community.

There are many ways of being fulfilled without adding to the population!

Sunshine, Do you suppose then if your friend had no kids her hubby would be a better guy and would contribute to their relationship?

If she didn't have kids she wouldn't be as wore down and it wouldn't matter if he contributed much to the relationship or not. There would be less to do if they didn't have kids.

The supposition was that children are a strain on marriage and this is the reason her friend is not happy. In reality the reason her friend is not happy is because her husband contributes nothing to their marriage. That has zero to do with having kids. The example given is not a good case in point because even if they did not have children, chances are he'd still be contributing nothing and she'd still be unhappy but maybe just a little less tired. Maybe the kids are actually an improvement for her in that they are the bright spot in her life while she languishes in a crappy marriage.

The father of my child turned out to be pretty much the same - zero contribution. With my schedule I'm often tired. Having a kid didn't make him an @!$%# and didn't ruin the relationship. If I didn't have a kid he'd still be one but I would no longer have the greatest source of joy I've ever known. The only thing having a kid did was give him a false sense of security which led him to believe he no longer had to pretend to be a good person. That mask would have eventually disappeared anyhow.

Some people have this need to procreate. Children definitely put stress on a marriage, emotionally, time-wise and financially. Now that my husband and I have raised our children and let our children raise their own with little input from us, we also feel like newlyweds again. I adore my children and think our grandchildren are neat. Would I do it again? Not sure. The idea that childfree couples don't mature is ridiculous. If anything, you are free to pursue adult pleasures, to grow without always being in a child's world - children can keep you young ad nauseum. And, if you think that your rewards come through having children, think again. It's a crap shoot.

Sunshine, Do you suppose then if your friend had no kids her hubby would be a better guy and would contribute to their relationship?

These problems don't exist because the friend has kids. This has little to do with the fact that children do exist in this relationship and more to do with the level of maturity and the lack of communication between the husband and the wife.

msannomalley, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing that. She'd be less tired but she'd still have a not-so-great marriage so I really doubt she'd be happy without the kids. It's really not fair or accurate to blame the hubby's behaviour on the kids and imply that the kids are the reason for her unhappiness. My one friend had a solid marriage and had been married for a while before she had her twins. Her hubby fully embraced his fair share and does a wonderful job. If anything the kids have solidified and confirmed a good marriage.

My marriage would be a disaster if DH and I had kids, because NEITHER of us wants kids or to parent kids (and in my mind wanting a kid and wanting to be a parent are the ONLY reasons to have a kid).

This applies only to my marriage and is not a comment on any other marriage.

Before the turn of the century, it was believed that too much education ruined a woman's uterus and caused her to dry up. I guess it must be true.

I have to point out that intelligent, educated people can still give birth to less productive/intelligent etc. children. I know lots of college profs, lawyers and doctors who have 30 year old kids still living at home in their basements. Similarly, those you term "less capable" can have brilliant, motivated kids. So, anyone deciding to opt out of overpopulation is helping conserve resources for the future, and giving other kids a chance.

No doubt, dys, exceptions abound and should be celebrated but the reality is that the "less capable" inflict a huge toll on society when near 50% of their spawn fail to graduate from HS and continue a downward trend in their communities of public assistance dependency and crime. The numbers don't lie...

The less able of society are reproducing themselves at record rates while those who would produce socially responsible children are opting out of parenthood. Bodes a Clockwork Orange kind of world in store for everyone. I am afraid for my grandchildren's future.

That is, until the new dominant sectors enforce laws upon the hooligans and society regenerates itself in a new order. Still scary, though.

The less able of society are reproducing themselves at record rates while those who would produce socially responsible children are opting out of parenthood. Bodes a Clockwork Orange kind of world in store for everyone. I am afraid for my grandchildren's future.

Rent the movie Idiocracy, it will explain everything. :)

Rent the movie Idiocracy, it will explain everything. :)

Prepare to laugh and cry. Laugh at the stupidity; cry because it's true.

The genes in my jeans r talkin' to themselves...their escape route has been 8<--snip-->8

Well that's one heck of a leap of logic. You assume educated white females would automatically make the most capable parents, but besides being racist, it's just plain wrong. (and I'm an educated white female). Character, compassion and common sense aren't direcctly correlated to formal education, as your post seems to demonstrate.

I question the IQ of anyone who listens to Dr. Laura

And don't forget the gay populations which are also increasing. That is mother nature's way of enforcing birth control and avoiding overpopulation. Lord knows, humans need help in this regard. So far, they have shown no restraint whatsoever when it comes to reproducing themselves.

Gay populations are not increasing - "out" gays are increasing. It is not natures way of anything.

I am also inclined to think that fertility rates are not increasing either - just reported more now that there is a "solution". It is due mostly to people waiting too long to have a child - infertility is pretty much the result as a rule.

Thank you for pointing this out Amy-1918884! I am in the exact same boat as you. We tried for years and continue to live childfree not by choice. I am happy for people that chose to be childfree and are o.k. with it.

Larry, calling those of us who have no children -regardless of the reason - as adolescent, immature, underdeveloped and not fully adults is incredibly cruel and simply untrue. Don't forget also that people may tell you to your face, even in a flippant manner, that they don't want children for all number of reasons when in reality, they have been unable to have them. I have told countless people this exact same thing because it is too painful for me for to tell them otherwise and be subjected to their pity or their ridiculous suggestions that maybe things haven't worked out because I have to relax more or go on vacation or have sex in different position, etc. or tell you that they'll carry your baby for you or jokingly tell you that they'll give some of their husband's sperm to you because "he gets me pregnant just by looking at me". You can't even begin to imagine the hurtful comments other people fortunate enough to have children say. Despite articles stating that it is not a stigma to not have children, as a childless woman who wants children, it sure feels like a stigma to me. And believe me Larry, A LOT of us know what we are missing and have to be reminded of daily every time we see children, pregnant women, hear stories about the good, bad and ugly that someone's children have done, click onto FaceBook only to get stung by having someone's ultrasound picture pop up to announce a pregnancy because it has become socially acceptable to announce things this way, ride behind cars which have baby on board signs or those new mommy-or pregnant mommy-daddy-kids-dogs stickers on them, see license plates saying things like nanaof9 or dadof5, get xmas cards with pictures of people's children on them (especially without the parents' pictures included too as if only the children count), etc.... Having children is not for everyone, and it is good when people recognize this and make the choice to do what is right for them, but there are a lot of us who are childfree not by choice.

The Catholic Church teaches that there is only one reason to marry- to raise a family. That's why they hate birth control, gays, and anything else that threatens increasing the ranks of future cash donors. Such a nicely brainwashed indentured following. And the Pedo-Priests are just killing Rome's percentage.

nn

Is insurance about lower costs that is paid for by others (costs distributed over a group) or lower costs per pay period (costs distributed over time)? In my opinion, there should never be coverage for infertility treatments. Why should five people pay for one that decided to delay childbirth?

Society does a good job of suppressing the information for women that their chances of pregnancy approach zero as they age. Low single digit women in their 40's will ever get pregnant despite Madonna's success. At least men know this. The cutoff age for on-line dating profiles for female marriage candidates is 35 even as men age.

Vincent: what woman hasn't yet gotten the message that her chances of pregnancy drop as she ages? What television can you turn on and not hear about the "biological clock"?? No, "society" isn't hiding anything from women. As the study points out, this is what happens when you educate women. By golly, they make choices.

Others make the extremely annoying, costly investment to raise the next generation that will run society.

"Then there is the extremely annoying but some how necessary inclusion of children of airplanes."

I'd rather have a baby crying a little on a plane than be seated next to a chatty old person.

I'll remember to keep my mouth shut next time I fly!

I'm with you GimDan. Some people think everyone is enjoying their pain in the a$$ children while their crying, making strange sounds, running all over unsupervised, putting their hands all over and into everything. Well as a childFREE adult I'm here to tell parents that I am not enjoying their children while they are crying or doing the above other stated annoyances on the airplane or the cruise ship or any other place that I cannot get away from them and their parents refuse to correct or control their children.

Vincent Denali said "I'd rather have a baby crying a little on a plane than be seated next to a chatty old person."

Maybe your child rearing has made your thinking infantile and adult conversation is above your comprehension.

Not all kids are awful. Why all the whining about how crappy society is and how no one raises their kids with discipline, THEN, for those of us who do try to control and discipline our kids we get crapped on with your stereotypes? We just can't win can we?

I'd rather have a baby crying a little on a plane than be seated next to a chatty old person.

Yeah, but the reason they're chatty old people who blather along with no sense of how they're annoying people is because they were allowed to run rampant over people as children. They grew up to be what their parents raised them to be.

THEN, for those of us who do try to control and discipline our kids we get crapped on with your stereotypes?

Hey, not from me. I appreciate people who are raising their kids to be aware of others.

The trouble is, you seldom hear about the well-behaved, cute children on a plane or at the restaurant. The newsmakers and the ones remembered are the disruptors.

Haven't you noticed you hardly ever hear anything good on the news. People are more likely to complain. There is good and bad in everything.

It's not the kids I can't stand. It's the parents! My brother's family always eats out and because his daughter never finishes what she's ordered, he's gotten into the habit of eating off of other people's plates. LOL!!! I cannot tell you how annoyed this makes other adults. The last time I sat next to him at dinner I honestly thought he was going to cut up my meat for me. I still think he started to and caught himself in the act.

What is most annoying for me are the nosey snots who glare at others and say "I can't stand people who...." Until you win the lottery and can buy your own planet suck it up and deal with the reality that you have to share the planet with other people - old people, children, nosey snots, young punks with their pants around their ankles, etc etc. Grow up and get over yourself. There are tons of things people do that annoy me. Oh well. That's life. I just try to mind my own and go on about my way.

Joe12pack wrote "Maybe your child rearing has made your thinking infantile and adult conversation is above your comprehension."

Typical seniors usually start with 10 minutes of weather followed by detailed discussions of their bodily pains, interrupted only by 15 minutes of complaining about the food or the bathroom. All of that is the preamble to a few hours of cheap politics. Seat me next to an intellectual senior.

Dont know about what you are saying Vincent Denali but all the old people I have sat next to on plane were passed out 90% of the flight.

Thank you Larry!

And you know what's ten times sadder, Larry? Those elderly who have plenty of children and are still lonely & ignored.

As someone who does not have children, I am, in my mid-40s, already planning for my retirement & old age, because I am a realist & know it is harder without the family support. I am childless not because I am somehow "anti-child" by any means, but I do not want to be a single parent, & it is marriage that I do not want.

I believe it is wrong to have a child or children for the purpose of having someone to take care of you when you are old. There are no guarantees they will even bother.

I can't think of a more selfish reason to have kids than to have someone to look after you when you're old. And by the way, the majority of people in nursing homes HAVE kids. Kids aren't an insurance policy.

Who said anything about having kids, "to look after you"? You two have interjected your own thoughts on the matter where I made no allusions to "needing or wanting to be looked after or visited by these seniors."

I agree, that would be a sad reason to have children indeed.

Not only is it selfish. It's also unrealistic. Your children aren't going to take care of your old a@@. They'll just shove you in a nursing home and let you rot (if you are lucky). Unless you are from one of the Asian countries where they honor the elderly, you aren't likely to get a whole lot from your kids. They have their own lives to live.

And you know what's ten times sadder, Larry? Those elderly who have plenty of children and are still lonely & ignored.

Agreed. I am living with a couple that had 6 kids, who in turn gave them *counting* 15 grandchildren, which some have already given them 15 great grandchildren.

Wanna guess how many of them come over to visit per month? Per year? One daughter, bringing one grandaughter, and the 3 great grandchildren. That's it. Other than that, the rest of the family couldn't be bothered and the majority of them live less than a half hour away. That's embarrassing and shameful. They were probably better off having no kids instead of falling into a constant depression that their own children (except 1) doesn't visit them.

I feel sorry for families like you describe. My children were raised in Germany and have been taught that caring for your elders is the natural and proper thing to do. When my great grandmother started having problems living on her own, she moved in with us. She was well cared for and loved until the day she died. My children loved talking with her and hearing stories about the "old days"

My parents are getting to the point were they are going to need help and we are preparing the house for them now. Again my kids are looking forward to spending more time with their grandparents.

My eldest son is going to attend university in Germany and will be living with my in-laws. They have already converted a floor of their house into an apartment for him.

I would think of living any other way. And I know that my children will be there for me and my wife when we need them. Our family will always take care of each other. It was how we were raised.

Nothing quite as heartbreaking as talking to the childFREE or barren as they await death lamenting their decision or inabilithy to not procreate. Sad, really...

Sorry, but you're wrong. What's heartbreaking are the parents who have been shuffled off to nursing homes to whither away, complaining that the kids never visit or even call. Or the ones who sit in their dark little homes, with caregivers coming in every day, because their children won't assist them.

At least the childfree know they will be on their own, and make plans accordingly.

They'll never sit and wait in vain for children that never show up.

Nothing quite as heartbreaking as talking to the childFREE or barren as they await death lamenting their decision or inabilithy to not procreate. Sad, really...

The only one who is sad is you.

I have 5 other siblings and for those of us who live far away, money is the primary factor in why we don't visit more often. We love being together to laugh, cry, and bitch about random grudges we might still have from our childhood. At this point, it's no longer competitiveness, but rapport. I think you have to have a level of maturity in order to get past the BS you went through with your family in order to love and accept them, even though you still may feel pain and will never receive validation. I'm honestly scared for the day when one or both of my parents either dies or can no longer care for themselves, who will do this? Both my parents are so healthy and fiercely independent, so it hasn't been discussed among my siblings (or so I think). I also consider the possibility that my husband and I may have to care for his parent(s) someday because his lazy brother can't be bothered to move out of their basement and do something with his life. So who do you choose?

I think, in other cultures like Japan, it helps for there to be a social expectation to care for your parents. The government and workplace won't create policies around such things unless the majority felt this obligation.

I worked in the trust and financial services area for 34 years.

I was appalled at the number of elderly customers I had whose kids virtually ignored them; all they did was check with me once in a while to see how mom/pop was doing and discuss the trust portfolio and how "their inheritence" was coming along. I even had kids complain that the trust was spending too much money to take care of the parent (who earned the money) and that the parent didn't really need this or that - and that we were drawing down "their inheritence" too much. Nice.

Were they all like that? No. But, I'd say the majority of the kids had nothing or little to do with their parents, expecting me to handle things that came up that weren't really in the realm of trustee duties. Others would call their parents, send cards, gifts and pictures, but even they didn't visit much, even when the customers were still in their own homes.

The people that I live with, only one daughter comes around. When we had serious flooding a few months ago, the daughter contacted her surviving family (a brother died a year ago) to start a plan if something should happen and the parents needed to be moved (they're wheelchair bound). Let's see the excuses: 1 couldn't do anything because he lived in another state (understandable). The other didn't bother picking up. One cared more about her pets than her parents (literally, I am not joking. One of her parents was in the hospital and when she was asked if she would be visiting, she said she couldn't; she had dogs. She can't be away from her dogs for more than 2 hours). And the other said let the fire department handle it.

Nice, huh? Only the one daughter does the food shopping for the parents. The siblings? Can't be bothered. Anything like taking a parent to a doctor or picking up a car? Can't be bothered.

Checkmate - Sounds like the parents did a horrible job of raising their children. One child with a bad attitude you can blame on the child. Several with bad attitudes falls on the parents. If that had been my parents, all my sibling would do what ever was necessary to take care of our parents. We were raised to take care of each other.

Remember that you will reap what you so.

I know the parents. The siblings just don't want to be around the parents because all they do is make them do things for them (which, wouldn't happen if they stopped over frequently; one may do this, the others wouldn't be asked to do it if they show up). The parents were farmers and all but 2 (one being the daughter that stops by, the other deceased) were not interested in the farm life despite what their parents have done for them. Some of them see the stereotype as farmer=idiot/poor and don't want to be associated with them. . .including their own parents.

The one that loves her animals more than her parents? It's not just her parents; she missed both of her kids' high school graduations because her dogs were more important.
The one that lives out of state? Only comes around and asks for money and has an overbearing wife.
The one that said to let the fire dept. handle it? She put one of her parent's in the nut house for no reason (tests were done and even the doctors said to the parent, 'you don't belong here.') and a lot of money went missing from their account when she took over and started to handle things (she was the only one that could have taken money out at the time). This one is conniving and is looking for any reason to put the parents in a home.

Why do they (except 1) want the parents to go into a home? Because they don't have to worry about anyone calling them asking if they can do something for the parents. All they have to wait for is that one call that says they are dead/dying. Plus, the parents have money. Lots of it and there are cases that when an elderly is moved into a home, their health diminishes. They tried putting the parents in a home a few times; the parents don't want any of it. Their money is being spent on aides to come and help them, which means when they die, less inheritance to be spread upon the remaining children.

As for the grandchildren and great grandchildren not coming around? Well, look at it this way: Your parents want nothing to do with a family member and don't bring you over to them. So, why would you visit them years later? Happened in my family; I never knew I had an aunt. There was a falling out with the family and the aunt moved off. I have never met/saw her. Would I meet her? Most likely no. I have no interest. I have cousins that apparently have no interest in me or my family even though we tried to get in touch with them.

Where I live, I am treated almost like that except instead of children, it's "you need a boyfriend." If you don't have a boyfriend you are not treated as an adult. And it goes farther than that because if you don't have a boyfriend, how do you expect to get married. I'm only 25. It's sickening and the excuses for why I need a man or to have children are pathetic.

Checkmate, I have a rather ignorant and chauvinistic cousin who used to constantly ask me when I was gonna get married. One day I just wasn't in the mood and responded with "What the hell would I do that for? I've got a nice paycheck and lots of fresh batteries!". He never asked again. ;)

Imo any debate or bickering about having a family is just a bunch of overinflated opinions about others' lives that are none of our business to begin with. If a couple wants a large family they are criticized and ridiculed for overpopulating the planet, reproducing like rabbits, and a bunch of other self-righteous crap. If a person wants and can take care of a big family, more power to them. Mind your own.

Likewise, if a person chooses not to have a family or even get married, they are ridiculed and called equally ignorant things like selfish, shallow, immature, or it is inferred there's something "wrong" with them. Again, if that is what they want and it makes them happy, more power to them. Mind you own.

Justme-517872 wrote "Checkmate, I have a rather ignorant and chauvinistic cousin who used to constantly ask me when I was gonna get married."

Your cousin assumed the necessary family burden of pressuring the unmarried into social arrangements conducive for the production of children. I'd pat him on the back.

I married because it was expected of me. Had children because that seemed the thing to do. I even enjoyed them some...ok, most of the time. Raised them up, sent them to college, and now they are on their own.

Now I am older, wiser, no longer married, and happily child free. Been there , done that. I have arrived!

See, you can have it all!

Vincent, I guess it would be his duty to make up for the fact that he's one who really shouldn't reproduce.

"What the hell would I do that for? I've got a nice paycheck and lots of fresh batteries!". He never asked again. ;)

Lol.

Your cousin assumed the necessary family burden of pressuring the unmarried into social arrangements conducive for the production of children. I'd pat him on the back.

Maybe the cousin should be more worried about his ability to breed and not hers? I know people who were pressured into getting married, got married, and then were beaten by their abusive husbands. Or they were tricked into getting married (false pregnancy or they are not the father). I know 2 people who were tricked this way (one of them was only engaged for a few months before he found out that his fiance lied about being pregnant. She wanted to marry him; he wasn't keen on marriage/children at the moment). They married/were going to marry due to the pressure that their girlfriend was pregnant. And that is also ridiculous. Marriage doesn't automatically mean that it is going to be the perfect family, the same way kids don't mean that it will be the perfect family. Kids can sometimes ruin a marriage/relationship. Sometimes, marriage can ruin a relationship (I know a couple who married, divorced, and they are still bf/gf.)

Your cousin assumed the necessary family burden of pressuring the unmarried into social arrangements conducive for the production of children. I'd pat him on the back.

I'd pat him on the head, say, "There, there, now," and attempt to drag him into the 21st century.

I'd pat him on the head, say, "There, there, now," and attempt to drag him into the 21st century.

I think my response was more of a frying pan than a pat lol. I think he found the 21st century to be a little shocking ;) I know I've never seen him speechless before. Presumptious, nosey people tick me off so I tend to go a little over the top in giving them back their assumption plus a whole lot more. I figure perhaps next time they'll hesitate to stick their nose where it isn't wanted in fear of hearing more than they really want to!

I have been pregnant 5 times, but I have tubal issues so the only way for a successful pregnancy is invitro fertilization which of course is anywhere from 12 to 15 thousand dollars a cycle with no guarantees that it will work. Adoption is just as expensive only thing is that there will be a baby taken home if you can hold out through the long waits and well there is the tax credit to help offset some of the expenses. It just kills me that insurance will not help out. So what I am to keep trying on my own and having life threatening pregnancies. I know for a fact that the insurance company has paid more for my three ectopic pregnancies then they would of had to pay for a couple cycles of IVF. I know a lot of people consider having children a lifestyle choice and that is why most do not agree with the insurance coverage, but then why do they pay maternity bills. It was a lifestyle choice for that person to get pregnant too.

If short-term costs are an issue, take out a secured loan and pay it back over a longer period of time. Everything shouldn't be covered by insurance because then the insurance premiums would be too high.

Sorry to read about your infertility troubles.

In the days of our grandparents the trend was many children now the trend is two if this trend continues the population should decrease with time shouldn't it?

Gee Mattwm, if all the women turn frigid as you approach, maybe, just maybe it's not the women--just sayin...

Not really planner.... Just want to do what we want and not have to worry.

What do you mean by "planners"? Even those that have children can be planners. Our first child was born 4 years after we married and our second child was born 3 1/2 years after our first. You know - get your marriage established - get the first one out of diapers - have enough space in between that putting them through college won't break the bank. Plan to limit the number of children so that you don't contribute to overpopulation or wear and tear on this planet.

Planners is exactly what people need to be when deciding to have children.

Doesn't that alienate all the people who didn't plan? I didn't plan, not crying about it. Hardly think my son is a contribution to overpopulation. Human beings here, pro-created and child resulted. Should I just go get neutered now so I don't deprive anymore women of their god given right to personal freedom? LOL, is so many perfect people in this vine. You can all kiss me and my red neck kids ass....

P.S. When some of you non child havin penguin snatchin females hit adolescence at 35 (and you will) don't even try to snatch my penguin.

Planning means that you get your life in order before having children instead of saying screw it, have a kid, and expecting society to pick up tab (more than normal).

Noob, that is the preferred method. If only EVERYTHING worked out the way I planned it. Now I just roll with the punches and am thankful for the good things. Nothing wrong with a little pre-emptive strategery. Life has a way of surprising kind of like the free radical. I think we all look for a balance and a child is a great leveler and human intervention brings us farther from life. Are far worse trials to go through. IMHO

Nothing wrong with a little pre-emptive strategery.

I agree with most of what you said. The problem I have with the above is that more planning should be given. I'm not saying that there should be elaborate plans, but there should be more emphasis for planning contingencies when plans A and B fail. Most of the people I know who had financial problems due to having children were also the people who couldn't think more than 1 step ahead.

Exactly why a good relationship is the first in the foundation. Takes a long time to figure out if a good relationship is there. Is really easy to get caught up in the newness, honeymoon phase of a relationship. Companionship is the most important aspect for me. Course, I got there trial by error. Thing is, who am I to deprive anyone of discovery? I can share my experiences but ultimately everyone has to live their own lives. China might be on to something by making it illegal to have more than one child. How do you enforce that though?

You don't have to deprive someone of trial and error discovery, but you don't have to support it either. If someone wants to go through life making alot of errors, let the errors be painful. Stupidity should hurt.

One child laws can be enforcable depending on the laws of the country. They can force abortions after the first child. They can sterilize the parents after the second pregnancy.

Oh I could never stand for that Noob. Not even for people I don't like.

Google the laws in China. I'v read stories about it (not sure if accurate or not) and castrations in the rural areas.

lol, im not going to look into that. Hurts just thinking about it. I consider that a human rights violation. What do you think?

I could see it as a human rights violation. The alternative of letting him and the 2nd child starve (it's not your first child, we don't care) seems inhumane as well.

The story that stuck out in my mind was a young man from rural china that had a couple kids. The authorities captured him and put him in some device that castrated him. He maintained an erection until looking down and seeing his nuts on the ground. I have no idea if that story is true, but I do remember it years after reading it.

Not to defend the Chinese government but as we can see in our own country we have our own issue with people from "areas" if you will popping kids out all the time to keep the government bank roll coming. So you have the class of people breeding out of control leaching off the system increasing their populace exponentially while those who work their behinds off plan out the support for their offspring's to become a merit to society in some fashion. I get so tired of seeing the litters trailing the momma cats at the store shopping with their EBT cards while rocking Apple-bottom $150 pants and a $200 purse. I think there should be forced birth control in the country right now. And you can come off it when you and your significant other can prove that you two can raise a child. Not saying the standard would be high but just to cut the leaches off the system.

When you let nature take care of the problem (starvation, infant mortality), alot of people's hearts start bleeding.

Oh well, sad but that's life. You should not be allowed to bring a child into this world if you can not support him/her to the fullest extent. Its not the childs fault but the parents in this matter. Stupid is as stupid does.

Please don't feel sorry for us. You waste your time. We're not missing out on anything that matters to us. Most of us have given a lot of thought to why we dont' want to become parents and raise children. Don't second guess us, if you can help it (I do suppose it's the nature of a parent to do so?)

Sprayeir wrote "We were not in any position financially or mentally to raise children."

Is anyone ever in this position?

Sprayeir wrote "We were not in any position financially or mentally to raise children."

Is anyone ever in this position?

Exactly. My sister and her husband were married 10 years before they had kids because they wanted the perfect situation and because they enjoyed it just being the two of them. Fortunately, even though she is in her early 40s, she was able to have 3 perfect and healthy kids.

I think for some people, there is a natural maturity that happens when they have kids. But I do think it needs to be at the right time in their lives. If you have kids before you're ready, you have difficulty being the appropriate parental figure for your child, and if you wait too long then you risk not having them at all or your child being born challenged.

If you choose to have or not have kids, I don't think it matters so long as you use your head in your decision. I think having children when you are older and have to resort to IVF is equally disturbing to having kids without a second thought.