Dentists are like auto mechanics in that we pay what they tell us to. I went to a new dentist who gave me an estimate (yes estimate) for close to $3800.00. I walked out not making an appointment. I called my former dentist who wasn't on my insurance's list but his estimate, even at the higher rate, was less than $1200.00! I don't trust most dentists. I had one that billed my insurance for surgical planing of my gums which I never had. I had a simple teeth cleaning! He got busted.

Absolutely always insist on alternative treatment options and there is never any harm in going to a couple different dentists to get their view/estimate. Surgical planing is part of teeth cleaning. At dental school, we use to do that every 6 months for our pts. It's just a fancing way of saying you are having something that vibrates really fast stuck below your gum lines while water is beng flushed down there, sometimes containing medicine. Very useful if you have messed up gums, kinda debated on the benefit in health. If you don't remember water being used on something, there are also hand instruments that are just sharp metal and they also can be put below the gumline to smooth out and remove whatever is on the tooths root. Typically the hygienist does it.

A Believer815

I wonder how much they'll charge for this? Probably have to take out a loan just to get it done.

They'll charge the same as a crown, probably! lol
The problem with the Dentist I have (small town, few choices), is that every time I go for a checkup and he congratulates me on my great care, I come back with a cavity two weeks later!
Wonder if that's done on purpose? Repeat business!
After all, if I don't have cavities, I probably wouldn't go as much.

It's a gel that will only be able to help a small percentage of cavities--- the one's that are newly formed. It will be cheaper than getting a filling and only used on those who catch them in time.

Most employer dental plans are absolute crap. If you obtain coinsurance your costs will drop dramatically (the cost of the coinsurance is a fraction of annual reactionary spending and is FSA applicable).

On the other hand, you can lobby for better dental plans from your employer. My employer has the best dental plan I have ever seen (granted, I work in benefits administration) and it's due to the fact that employees started calling for better group insurance plans.

I haven't had dental insurance since the mid-90's due to employers no longer carrying it.

All my dental costs are 100% out of pocket.

I love this idea, but a side effect is that this particular nanotechnology makes you feel strongly that Big Pharmaceuticals should rule the world and that 1/2 of your salary should go to the CEOs of these companies.

Beware.

Mark D-1621162 when I said he got "busted" I meant that literally. He was billing people for all kinds of work he wasn't doing. Enough people complained and an investigation was done and he got shut down. He was playing games with "welfare" billing as well and they found no actual patients on welfare in his office. His big thing was billing for surgical pulling of teeth (molars and wisdom type) and no he was not an oral surgeon. He was doing a normal extraction with pliars, no sutures, and he did not offer gas as an option to novacaine. I have no clue if he practices elsewhere now and wasn't able to find a link to the story in the local newspaper. I do know he is no longer living around here.

BTW, my teeth cleaning was done by the oral hygenist in his office and was the same type of cleaning I have always had. I never have plaque in my teeth. My dentist from my childhood gave me a metal picker (sorry but no clue to the actual name thought it's what dentists pick the plaque with in the office) and I use it faithfully. The work I needed done that was so expensive was a new crown (on a tooth broken when I was 17) and replacement of some old metal fillings from the early 70's.

Actually, most medical advances happen at public universities and are partially funded by drug companies...so we're screwed either way.

The clinical trials should be short as MSH has already undergone human trials in a different use and, many of the consumption requirements have already been met.

Dustin, exactly.

For the same reason that most insurance companies don't cover drugs like Viagra (costing users up to $25.00 per doseage), most insurance companies won't cover these gels, but we'll pay pretty much whatever not to hear/see the drill/needles.

...and the drug companies' CEOs get richer...but then again that's the name of the game...

On the contrary...since MSH can be manufactured as a generic, it will most certainly be covered by dental plans. The delivery of the drug is cheap, the drug itself will be, and the dentist will be able to lower their malpractice premium by utilizing a non-destructive method.

Drilling cavities is not cost-effective for dentists so we'll be seeing drilling become the non-covered expense that will skyrocket in costs and this new method will be the standard. It's just how things work in the medical industry.

I would think you'd have to go to the dentist to get it done.Like now you can go and get things done like cleaning and sealants that PREVENT cavities.

Very cynical JC. But, you're probably right.

You're too cynical and also wrong. The dental profession has, for years, promoted the use of fluoride to prevent cavities. If this gel is proven to actually be effective you can count on the dental profession to actively promote it. Yes, you will have to pay to have it placed on a tooth. Do you think all of that equipment and staff you see in the office is free?

Oh yeah those doctors and dentists make way too much......until you add in the cost of their education, training, equipment, malpractice insurance, etc.

So JC, quit yer bitchin and open wide!

I totally agree with doc-1! JC is obviously dentally uneducated. Who goes anywhere and expects that their bill will be entirely taken care of? Do these people go to the grocery store & expect their food to be free? A restaurant? No! As a dental professional, teeth ARE our business. It's what we're passionate about. We are always looking for next best products for our patients. They do come at a price because with any other health profession equipment & staff is very expensive. AND insurances are the ones to blame. They cover what is less expensive for THEM! NOT what's best or needed for the patient. THEY are the ones taking your money. There are ALREADY a number of products out that remineralize small lesions & control the acid levels of the mouth therefore minimizing bacteria levels & decreasing risk of decay. CARIFREE is a great program, very similar, combined with a high level of fluoride worn in trays once a day has had similar proven benefits. Google it :)

JC, your theory only holds true if people will be allowed to self treat with this product - which they won't for a multitude of reasons.

Let's say a dentist now charges $100 to fill a cavity in the traditional way.

All this means is he'll now charge you at least $100 (maybe more) to fill it with the new regenerative paste.

It's a win-win.

In addition to Elvoids 3.6 comment, it may also bring the people who avoid the dentist visits for years at a time. It should make it easier for them to visit a dentist more freaquently to have their cavities filled. Therefore, increasing the dentist's annual revenues.

With that senereo it may lower the cost to maybe, $75. But still win-win.

Did you read the whole article? It details that this type of solution would only be viable for a small number of cases, and that most would probably still need regular dental work for cavities. Dentistry has been on the cutting-edge of technology in terms of better therapies, better service, and better patient-care. Moreover, there is definitely NO single type of treatment that would eradicate the need for dentistry. People don't take care of themselves, from their teeth to their toes, and with the growing population of people in need of health care, it is imperative that we continue to find ways to work smarter, not harder in medicine.

JC's comment has a ring of truth to it. I can see endodontists and prosthodontists being against it. There's also the fact that the research is being done in France so I'm sure Europe will have it long before (if ever) it comes to the US.

Jherek, Please say hello to Mrs Amelia Underwood, your mother and Lord Jagged; whatever time in which you might find yourself.

Sincerely,

MM

As a dentist, I will tell you that a similar product to this hit the market last year and is currently being used. This product sounds like an improvement and if it pans out, I guarantee dentists will love it and use it.

Anne; sorry your dental experiences make you think jc is correct. if the treatment is easy and quick it makes me and the patient very happy and i will charge less because it is easy (unless the company that sells it to me STICKS ME IN THE ASS ----then i will be FORCED to SCREW you as well to make myself enough to pay my 45%- 55% MONTHLY OVERHEAD BILL ). Dentistry aint easy and problems are the NORM not the exception; the patients are stressed and the work is difficult and tricky 80% of the time. the outcomes can be unpredictable and expensive and huge liabilities for big cases. If you have a slow month the overhead can be 125% and you have to make it up next month, dentistry can be great and it can be terrifying for both dentists and patients on any given day.

unless the company that sells it to me STICKS ME IN THE ASS ----then i will be FORCED to SCREW you as well

Yeah, thanks a lot! I thought the Health Professions were to HELP PEOPLE!
Ever thought of a new profession? Something where you have lower overhead, so you won't have to cheat people.

Affair girl -- I appreciate your honesty. But I also know that many dentists aren't hurting financially, at least where I live, and many are dropping out of dental plans and demanding payment up front. So, I'll stick by my original comment as I don't see how endodontists, prosthodontists, etc., will exactly be jumping for joy about this development.

I absolutely agree that this new technology will never be seen by Americans, there is to much money at stake for any Dentist to use it.

doc-1, have you read up on flouride?

1. It is in rat and cockroach poison

2. The Nazi's use it in the water supply in the ghettos to make their citizens docile and to sterilize them.

3. .It is associated with a number of serious health related problems including kidney damage

4. Ask most dentists if they give their kids fluoride and they won't answer you....I wonder why....

Devlin... nitroglycerine was originally used as an explosive that is stonger than black powder and now it is put under the tongue to widening vessels, whats your point?

My dental insurance wouldn't pay for flouride.

This is very true. When I was an EMT in 2005 I did a refresher course at the local hospital. In 2005 an aids specialist came to this course and advised us they had CURED 25 people who had aids with a new drug, further they had also PREVENTED aids in 25 who did not have it with an aids vaccine. The people who did not have it were currently in relationships with people with aids and agreed to try and get the disease by unprotected sex. They were given the vaccine and they did not get aids. The cure is out there. As I am sure they have been able to cure cancer. This country refuses to use oxygen therapy (hydrogen peroxide) although it prevents all kinds of illnesses and cures many. Look up hydrogen peroxide therapy. I have not had a cold in five years since I started drinking food grade H2O2.

Doc 1 is right. The dental profession will use this new technology and YES They, like everyone else, have to be paid.....and they give us an ESSENTIAL service/product, unlike the shell game moneychanger scam artists over at goldman suchs, our dentists leave valuable and often times life saving services and their training and equipment are not free.

In the Far Far Far Future when America is free of the elite corporate class and we have a National Healthcare System, the dental profession will thrive in helping everyone.

Good Going Doc 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I work in benefits and I would like to clarify some things for a specific genius who started this subthread:

1 - Fillings and other routine work do not pay the bills. Dentists only perform this work as a way to get you through the door. While you're getting your routine work done, they contact your insurance company to get a coverage breakdown and determine what your insurance covers. They then cross-reference your oral examination results with what issues are covered and set out a treatment plan. This treatment plan is the lucrative part...crowns, root canals, flouride treatments, whitening, straightening, removals, mezoden removal, etc.

2 - Dentists do not perform unnecessary procedures. They do have to submit evidence to the insurance company proving that the problem exists.

3 - All dental procedures are at great risk of infection, they would not risk their malpractice insurance as the premiums would skyrocket at first instance.

Jherek Carnelian I believe you're right , the medical community might try to bury technology such as this. It's all about the money. Just look at the new study on MS called "CCSVI'" which stands for Chronic Cerebral Spinal Insufficiency. This idea that MS is caused by vascular blockagehas been circulating since last Summer, but barely anyone has heard about it outside the MS community. Why? Because it is too simple of a treatment and it would cost the pharmaceutical industry billions. As a footnote, the majority of people with MS have this blockage, and when treated, many of their symptoms disappeared if not all of their symptoms in a large percentage of these people.

This guy doc-1 cracks me up. He/she talks about fluoride and insinuates that it was a good thing. Fluoride is a toxin, slightly less toxic then arsenic and more toxic then lead. Fluoride use to be disposed of by the government until someone got the idea that it was good for teeth. Funny thing is ever since I stopped using fluoride I haven't had a cavity in over 16 years. Ask your dentist not to use fluoride.

Wah, wah. I'm a dentist I have overhead and I don't make any money. Give me a break. Dentists make money hand over fist. I got billed $800 for a root canal that took my dentist all of 30 minutes to do and that of course does not include the crown.

As for the other poster who implied that all would be right with the world once we have nationalized healthcare, you really are naive aren't you. Start talking to people that actually live in the UK or Sweden for example. The veil of happy customers hides a terrible system by which people often have to wait years for "non-essential" procedures. The healthcare system in the UK will be bankrupt within ten years and it's the country's largest employer. Please educate yourself before you spew your Kool-aid.

amen

Really?? Is that why the ADA has been the primary promoter of fluoridated water systems?? Or how about the American Acedemy of Pediatric Dentists pushing sealants like crazy?? Dental Medicine almost tries to put themselves out of business.

I'm sorry, but how much power do you think the ADA has? Care to cite a source?

Besides, cavities are the easiest thing to prevent, and the easiest thing for a dentist to fix.

HAHAHA todd... "but how much power do you think the ADA has?" Awesome comment man.

JacobOKC, there isn't a vaccine for strep mutans since the surface proteins on the exteior of the bacterial cell wall is very similar to the surface proteins on cardiac cells - heart muscle! So a vaccine that stimulates antibodies to attack S. Mutans would likely also attack our heart muscle. A pretty bad side effect, wouldn't you say? The ADA and organized dentistry have a track record of supporting many technologies that makes dental care safer for patients.

I am one of those people who hates dentists. The problem with some people is their gag reflex, which makes it harder to have dental work done if it is in the back area of your mouth and it makes it harder to get the dental x-rays back there. I had a great dentist years ago for many years that retired, I have not found one yet that compares to him! I have had them crack a tooth when fixing another one. I have had them get rude in the chair. I have had them tell me they could fix a bad cavity on the first visit, then on the next one try to refer you to a specialist.

I have also had them try to do 3 visits for a dental cleaning, which is absolutely ridiculous. I have dental insurance, but the amount they tried to bill me last time was $450 above what the insurance indicated it should be!! I went to one dental office when I was looking for a new dentist and the staff was so rude, I never went back. This is customer service??

I think they would do well to invest in the gel if it works and try to be nicer to the patients and get more patients. Yes I read the article, and know at this point it can only help a few, but if we can grow new fingertips for people why couldn't this work. I think the information in the article is probably conservative because of the financial crisis it would cause for the dentists!! But to be able to treat a cavity, you would still have to be told you have one, so dentists would not loose out and maybe it would allow them to get more patients in and seen in a quicker amount of time. It would also help to get people that are afraid of dentists to visit more often with less fear of the drill or the gag reflex or choking.

PS I also had a friend who had the wrong tooth removed!

Not only that - I think this would encourage people to go to the dentist more often. I try to go every 6 months, but many people I know only go every 4 or 5 years because they hate it so much.

And thats why they hate it so much because they only show up when they have a problem. If you get preventive cleanings and early detection you get less drill.

I totally agree with TJ22...

When I was little I was taken to a pediodontist, who used leather straps to hold me down and used to slap me. He would drug me every time, making me sick. I was fearful of the DDS.

Then my older brother became a dentist and I experienced how good it feels to go to a nice dentist.

Now I love it! I LOVE to have my teeth cleaned...and I choose to go regularly because it's a treat to go! And if there is a problem, I would want the Dr. to be able to solve it earlier rather than later. With today's technology, going to the DDS is a GOOD experience...no pain...excellent experience always! My brother is not my dentist anymore...he passed away at a young age from cancer...and I've never seen a dentist that wasn't compassionate and very nice! I've never experienced anything but good from the dentists I've seen...they're always concerned about their patients and want you to have only a good experience! The dentists I've seen all have new technology and I feel lucky to have access to good, quality oral care...so that when I'm really old...my teeth will still be in good shape!!! Thanks to those dentist who take care of teeth of whimps like me!

Dentists have already figured out that there is no more money in cavities. The future lies in soft tissue issues - if they can define 99% of people's gums as diseased then there are all sorts of inneffective lifetime treatments like Perio Protect that they can prescribe and monitor.

And if you can't afford the treatment, well then they're act as a front for the GE scam called CareCredit which offers interest free two year deals that only turn out to be 3 month deals - something you discover only months later when you find you're paying 22.98% interest on a loan you thought was interest free. You know that dentists are getting a kickback for that scam.

I assure you dentist don't get a kick back from CareCredit. You can always use your credit card instead or pay cash then you won't get charged 22% or pay it off in the 3 months like it is designed to be.

Nice to know that people who have to HAVE CareCredit to pay your huge bills, can actually pay it OFF in 3 months!

I am now unemployed, so it doesn't count, but when I made "good money" (on paper), I couldn't have paid $800+ a month. A crown costs $1600 or better! That's more than a new car loan costs!

I used the GE carecredit for my vet bill, about $500 dollars for a surgery. I paid it off before the YEAR was up and paid ZERO interest... maybe you only get 3 months if you have really horrible credit or something? I got a year. After I paid it off they closed the account. It is nice to know that the GE carecredit is there if I need it again. Wish doctors and hospitals joined up with it too.

One thing the ADA did squash was OTC floride gels. Hmmm makes you wonder.

Too much fluoride is a bad thing. There is enough is the drinking water.

Mark D-1621162

But Larry the dog doesn't want to hear that he would rather bash the system.

So, it would only work on small cavities, thats a start.

If it was titled like you wanted it, you never would have clicked on it! HA!!

My question would be could another cavity come along side the one waiting to regenerate? As in a root canal sized hole?

I agree they don't elaborate on what the limitations are. Maybe you have to have teeth the size of mice and kind of look and act like a rodent. By the way we will have to wire your mouth shut and feed you via a tube while it is working. So unless you are comatose, it won't work.

depends on whether it's cheaper to pay out for drilling or gel.

And what will the dentist do for fun if drilling is eliminated?

logdump maybe they could do some drilling of their own at home, sorry couldn't help the joke.

Wow a logical person I am shocked.

Are you against Neosporin? And aloe vera lotion?

LOL I can imagine peop;e walking around looking like beavers...oops we put too much in that tooth...

logdump... you nailed that one! LOL

Probably because I have lived long enough to see so many valuable technologies announced that never reached people's hands. Ever heard of the "Keefer Cell"? It was a battery that ran off carbohydrates that was developed in the 1960's. When the battery runs down, you just topped it up with a sugar solution. How about the cancer "vaccines" made from heat shock proteins? They cured kidney cancer in terminal cases with no side effects. Kidney cancer is almost 100% fatal. Ever wonder why we don't have fuel cell cars? They are being tested and tested and tested and tested,.....

I believe you will find the tale about of the Ark of the Covenant being stored in a warehouse was in a fantasy movie. Do you only watch movies and think in those terms because looking at reality scares you? Reality is pretty scary, I agree but let's face up to it and realize that there are people out there who don't really give a damn about you or I but care very much about how much money they can earn.

Can you say "BP"? Do you hnestly think a large corporation would pollute the entire Gulf of Mexico with megatons of oil, just to save a few tens of thousands of dollars on a drilling operation? Of course they wouldn't. Clearly anyone who would think that is just paranoid! And of course no-one would give a phony excuse for a war, like weapons of mass destruction that didn't really exist. And no-one would form a cabal to assassinate a politician, or sell illegal drugs, etc, etc because those are just crazy conspiracy theories. Only a paranoid fool believes in conspiracy theories.

But perhaps I am boring you and you want to get back to your Indiana Jones and Harry Potter movies.

Don't be so sure about companies not burying technologies. I had a chemistry professor in college that invented a quick, safe and easy method for cleaning up oil spills in water. It was a combination of chemicals that turned into a gel when it came into contact with water and anything on the surface of the water was caught in the gel. The gel was then skimmed off the water and could be reprocessed to be used again and the oil removed for use. He was so proud of his invention and demonstrated it for us. He talked about the patent process and how he was selling it to a big oil company for a good bit of money. I wonder why we aren't seeing this technology right now in the gulf. Could be because it was buried.

There is also an article about, I believe it was BP, that bought a company that does oil containment just a week before this occurred.

Hey there is a technology that is effective against cavities, its called a toothbrush... oh and then there's floss and flouride and not drinking soda or brushing after meals, but yeah its probably your dentist's fault.

TJ... the media has failed to bring that technology to light, for many people.

You kind of miss the point TJ. There is plenty of cash in toothbrushes, floss and toothpaste because there are consumed and the user needs to buy more when they run out. They also only act to slow down dental decay. They do not reverse it and actually refurbish teeth.

There is no magic solution that is 100% effective against cavities. It is not even scientificaly possible. Cavities are caused by bacteria in your mouth which feed on plaque. The bacteria are held against the teeth in the plaque, feed off of it, then release acids which cause decay. A buffer solution could be used to make the teeth more "slippery" and make it more difficult for plaque to build up and keep bacteria off (this is how saliva protects the teeth), but you would need to coat the teeth on all surfaces every few minutes all day and night to ensure 100% cavity protection. Flouride helps make the teeth stronger, but even flouride has limitations. No solution or chemical can work without mechanical removal of plaque and calculus from the teeth by brushing, flossing and dental cleanings. Even the best solution in the world coating a tooth which has been exposed to plaque and bacteria will fail. On a long enough timeline (which does not have to be too long) plaque and bacteria which have not been physically removed from a tooth will cause decay, no matter how strong a tooth has become from Flouride or other mouthwashes. Because of this, there can be no solution which is 100% effective against cavities.

"There is no magic solution that is 100% effective against cavities. It is not even scientificaly possible. Cavities are caused by bacteria in your mouth which feed on plaque."

So if we killed the bacteria, we would not have cavities. Therefore, it clearly IS scientifically possible.