This is why laws allowing patients like this to sue the doctor for medical malpractice are necessary in a sane society. No one should be exempt from responsibility for their negligence.
I would guess that: A. Her family may not have been strongly involved. B. That for the surgeons, usually they work on much younger patients. The legs of many 91 year olds look diseased compared to younger legs. Because of that, they didn't catch it just by looking at it as would usually be the case. C. They were in a hurry, or it was the second or third surgery of the day. D. The patient was prepped and draped by a different crew than the OR nurses. Walking into an OR with the patient prepped and draped, the limb the only thing exposed, they just didn't check. E. The surgeons didn't look at the chart carefully to determine why they were removing the leg. Without knowing that, they may have assumed bone cancer or something else invisible.
And it is possible that the chart had right instead of left leg or vice versa. Once in a great while that happens.
John Toradze - NONE of your explanations is a valid excuse for this accident. This should have been checked and rechecked by more than one person before the surgery began. I hope that she ends up owning the hospital and everything that belongs to the surgeon, including a portion of his future earnings. I bet he would have paid better attention to what he was doing if this had been his mother or one of his kids.
John Toradze, do you work in the medical field? Sounds like you do. A surgeon worth his money would have been double positive that he was amputating the right leg.
Someone other than the OR nurses draped the patient? Are you nuts? Someone not on the OR team just walks in and drapes the patient and leaves?
The surgeon didn't look at the chart to see why they were removing the leg? The surgeon is the one who made the choice to amputate her leg. Her ob/gyn certainly had nothing to do with it.
Surgeons do amputate older patient's legs. Have you heard of diabetes? Have you heard of surgeons who only see geriatric patients? It's true. There are doctors/surgeons who specialize in geriatric medicine.
I know that you are in the medical field. You may only be a scrub tech but you know enough about OR to write about it.
Next time you write something up like this, use "I" statements.
This is a tragedy. I hope the doctor gets his license suspended for a good amount of time.
A.) Once a patient is up in the O.R., family "involvement" is a moot point.
B.) Yes, surgeons usually do work on younger patients because MOST of the people alive are UNDER 91. Having said that, I don't know about you, but I could never tell just by "looking" which leg needed amputation ALL THE TIME.
When I was in nursing school, my 1st. day of clincals at the hospital entailed "shadowing" a patient who was diabetic & needed a toe removed. We were taught that as a nurse preping a patient for amputation surgery, to use a marker to either right on the extremity or at least, in the case of a Big Toe to circle it with marker. This is only one of several things done to reinforce that patient's I.D. & reason for surgery are properly identified.
C.) Maybe they WERE in a hurry or it was the 2nd or 3rd surg. of the day or maybe, as I've seen, a surgeon was "hung-over" & wanted NO TALKING in the surgical theatre other than minimal sound & then, nearly a whisper.
D.) Yes, charts can be wrong which is why we have loads of redundant back-ups to PREVENT incidents such as this fro happening. It is the nurse's responsibility as much as the surgeon's to KNOW what is going on with the patient most esp. what they are having done.
Sometimes things like this do happen & they are a tragedy. But NOT knowing the patient nor her medical Hx., I'd guess that at that age, it was diabetic related & w/o either of her legs, she will fairly soon fall into a terminal case of pneumonia due to inactivity, weakened immune system or as often happens, losing the will to live. TRULY TRAGIC!
I sometimes think that some people just assume that patients in their 90s are going to die anyway so they are really doing their best for them. Had a great aunt at 99, that got gangreen from an infected toe. Nursing home didn't catch it until her 70 year old daughter in law demanded they get the doctor to look at it. They put her in the hospital and amputated the leg without checking how far the infection had gone. It was already up in her abdomin. Since at that point they could have done nothing to stop the infection, they should have kept her comfortable and let her die with dignity, rather than put her through an amputation.
It's all very simple John, it's called a permenent marker. X marks the spot. There was no precaution taken by the hospital. There are no excuses, that is their job to make sure they are doing things right. Hopefully something will happen to these idiot's that have done this. Here in America they would probably be promoted to Cheif of Staff, and in turn blame it on the janitor.
What a shame.....can't imagine what I'd do. Can you say KACHING!!!! I guess her great greandchildren's children won't have to worry about paying for college or anything else for that matter.
Edward my boy, how would you like it if you went to this same surgeon for the same operation and instead of removing your ailing leg, he removed your testicles instead? ...just sayin
How bad a doctor do they have to be not to be able to tell the difference between a healthy and diseased leg?? Do you want a doctor that negligent to keep his license and maybe someday operate on you or your loved one?
The only way she can protect others from suffering a similar fate at that idiot's hands is to make sure the law strips him of his license and pays her for her loss, including the added cost of special care and equipment for a now leg-less person.
With one leg, she still could have gotten around some and even had a prosthetic leg made so she could have still walked. Now, she is wheelchair bound for life and will need help getting in and out of bed and even going to the bathroom. She'll require 24 hour care that she may not have needed before. How is she supposed to pay for all of that and (more importantly) why should she have to when it was 100% their mistake??
I'm the first person to spout off about frivolous lawsuits, but if someone amputated my HEALTHY leg, I'd have a lawyer on the phone as soon as I regained consciousness. Prosthetics or not, it's inexcusable.
yep doctor made a mistake on my dads catorac eye,put 2 lens instead of one,made him blind in that eye,then sent him to another doctor to fix it,but the doctor who made him blind still got paid,had the nerve to send my dad a bill every month,which my dad paid..my dad live on 600 dollars amonth ss.....that happend in camp hill pa...
What happened to all the safety checks. Right patient, right surgery, right limb etc. Are those in the healthcare system getting sloppy because of assembly-line service?
Not in the hospital I work in. Surgical patients good limbs are always marked "wrong limb" as a safeguard check. and we have a "time out" before surgery begins to perform our checks, such as right patient, right limb, right procedure, etc. I would like to think that here in the United States, those precautions are a standard of care in every hospital.
I worked in an ER and we had a doctor who really scared me. She would ask for our opinions and also read out of anatomy book. One night a patient was admitted who was 1. elderly 2. frail 3. had asthma.3. thin.
I picked his chart up and started back to the trauma desk when I saw she had ordered 150mg of Demerol. I rushed back to find her and showed her the chart and her exact words were "thank you,______, you saved my life". I said "no, I saved the patient's life.
All doctors aren't airheads. In ER there were usually enough people around that it would be hard to make a mistake, at least in the one where I worked. I know I stopped a doctor from sending an elderly man home one night. The doctor was angry and made me help hold the man's leg while he did another exam. Part of the man's bowel was looped around and he would have died within hours had he been sent home.
OMG patA! I just cked. Mosby's & a sub-Q, IM or P.O. is 50-150 mg. q. 3-4 hrs. prn, but for a elderly, frail, asthma & thin it would of KILLED him! Talk about an Angel of Mercy as opposed to an Angel of DEATH.
Bet she-the doctor- was from another country. I have NO idea how they get licenses. I think it's because they can READ English as opposed to SPEAKING/WRITING it.
We have one here now that is an idiot & although I'm retired, yrs. of keeping quiet when NOT asked for MY opinion makes me cringe when someone tells me he's their Dr., but he flat-out lied to my husband & his sister when their father was dying & his mother STILL goes to him. His idea of Tx. of her Rheumatoid Arthritis is giving my mother-in-law Oxycontin for pain at night. GGGGRRRRRRRR! But some people just can't be helped.
I am very concerned with how some (not all) medical people treat our elderly. I got a first hand look at it when taking care of my father. I had to intervene a number of times when I felt he was not getting appropriate treatment. One time I walked out of an emergency room and left my Dad there to force them to admit him. (Talk about tough love!) Primary care doctor had told me to take him to the emergency room so he would be admitted that night and she wouldn't have been able to until the next day so I knew he needed to be admitted. I had one specialist refuse to change a medicine my father reacted to so badly to that he was hospitallized, who took off on a trip with no other doctors covering his patients. I got the family doctor to take him off the med, found another specialist, who actually disagreed totally with the first specialist's diagnosis. I was actually told by the first specialist that Medicare would not allow me to change my father's doctors so I had to go along with whatever he said. Anyone who takes care of an elderly family member over a period of years has a number of tales to tell about having to fight for proper care for their family members.
On the other side of the coin, I also ran into a number of caring respectful doctors, nurses, therapists, etc. who would give elderly patients their very best.
I certainly hope this 91 year old lady was not a case of someone just thinking "she won't be around much longer anyway" and getting careless because they did not think her important. It is sad that parts of our society does not always value our elderly, once they are no longer able to care for themsleves.
EAE -- my mother lived to be 97 with a good quality of life and part of that was due to the several wonderful doctors who treated her over the last 15 years of her life. There was only one who didn't give their best attention to her and I fired his @$$ after he showed me that he just wasn't interested in giving her his best. Her other doctors were just wonderful and, while she had a number of health problems, she remained active physically and mentally right up until the day she died. And her death that day was a surprise since she had been out with friends earlier and had been just fine.
I know there are doctors out there who aren't that caring but good ones can be found and we were very lucky to have found great ones for every health concern for which she needed treatment.
At 91 year's old she should have been at least compensated or her family in the millions for @!$%# like that, and everyone involved should have been FIRED !
Your absolutely right...It wouldn't have happened under Obama Care because the poor 91 yr old lady wouldn't have been able to be treated. Live the system before you praise it dude.
And it has nothing at all to do with the health care plan anyhow. The doctors messed up not the system. Blame the idiotic doctors. They should be the ones paying for the costs!!
and aww poor lady. Man I would sue their @$$#$ for my amputated good-leg, psychological trauma, and the leg that was Supposed to be amputated!!!
Your absolutely right...It wouldn't have happened under Obama Care because the poor 91 yr old lady wouldn't have been able to be treated.
What are you basing your completely biased and incorrect statement on? If she's 91, in the USA she's got Medicare and would totally be treated. You have no facts, just anger. It's like all the teabaggers that we're questioned about Obamas tax policy and they all said how angry they are about having to pay more taxes, when THE FACTS are that their taxes actually went DOWN. They don't even know anything about what they are so angry about, and neither do you.
You should ease up, learn more about what you seem to be somehow passionate about, and try to emulate your username more.... live, laugh, love.
If everyone is covered rationing will be necessary as occurrs in countries with similar systems. At 91 she will be deemed to old to spend the money on and will not be allowed to receive the operation.
Jesus: FYI i have lived it, experienced it, and watch my grandmother be put on "hold" because she wasn't young enough to get the procedure she needed. and that is what I base my facts on...Not anger or ignorance.
V...: I said absolutely nothing about taxes. And yes i agree with you..half of the people who critisize Obama Care DON'T know hardley anything about it. But there IS more to it than what is said in the media. oh and i do practice my name, just not when it comes to something that I oppose.
Me neither, patA. Any surgeon who takes the "word " of what was written on the chart w/o doing at least a cursery exam of the extremity to be operated on, is an accident waiting to happen.
Wow!!!! The ignorance of some people. Always ready to blame someone else. It is a shame that this lady had her legs removed. Why not concentrate on the sadness of it rather that point fingers. It is the doctors who are to blame not the U.S President. You really need to get a life. Focus on trying to change the system. Instead of b****** about it. And the fact it didnt happen here.
Really -- Medical malpractice similar to this case happens everyday in the USA. Many thousands of people are injured and killed by medical mistakes every year. Do you seriously not know this? The information is readily available with minimal effort. Check it out.
I think that "Really!!!!"'s point is that teh majority of the comments on this page are crusading this and that, arguing about who did what and how what works.
When really, a "that sucks, I hope she gets compensation for that. and check that doctor's credentials" would probably have sufficed.
Maybe some extra stuff on advice to avoid shady/incompetent doctors
You and Edward from a few posts back, should have a comedy act routine in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm sure you'll find one legged, survivors of landmines who would give you a sitting ovation! .....just sayin!
Actually... Austria (this womans surgery took place in Vienna) was ranked #9 on the World Health Organizations list of countries healthcare... The US came in at #37 just above Slovenia and Cuba...
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems. Source: WHO World Health Report -
1. The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as every other developed nation. This is largely due to administrative costs which account for 19-25% of healthcare costs, and up to 34% at for-profit hospitals.
2. Other than South Africa, America is the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens.
3. Yet, the US ranks 26th in infant mortality and 24th in the number of healthy years a person can expect to live - putting America’s healthcare system in the company of Cuba and Slovenia rather than Canada and Western European nations.
4. And, despite ludicrous right-wing anecdotal claims of high dissatisfaction among those who live in countries with universal healthcare, the reality is that, with the exception of Italy, Americans are more dissatisfied with their healthcare than are the citizens of every other developed nation, including England, France, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, US doctors spend less time with patients that do doctors in other nations.
V -- The World Health Organization you cite is a United Nations entity. That tells us all we need to know about their objectivity. The UN is a know hater of the USA. When the rich around the world need top quality health care they come to the USA, not to Andorra , Malta or Greece. The next time you have an emergency why don't you head to France?
Oh please! This happens/ed currently and in the past. Don't go blaming a great solution to make things seem bad. I heard about a botched surgery like this one, and the insurance company refused to pay for the botch job (which it should...that needs to be absorbed by the hospital), but then they refused to pay for the second surgery because it had 'already' been done. Sounds like money hungry grubbing to me, not socialized medicine.
Two examples that I found in two minutes of searching Google. Mistakes are not restricted to countries with universal health care, so let's not try to make this woman's tragedy about your political views.
BTW, "V" the WHO report you cite is 10 YEARS OLD! And although i didn't get into it, it superficially didn't cite statistics & criteria for their judgements.
mybestfriend: your records are more public than you realize. The hospital you go into OWNS your records. Quality goes down when records become public? And you know this HOW since you've never had any other kind of insurance as we all have had here in the U.S. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, Sweetie, but NURSES are UNIONIZED in many places. Better be sure to ck. that out in case you need to go into a hospital or let your EMTs know after your car accident or fall down the steps or seizure, etc. You get my drift?
...........and this is why malpractice suits have to be the "hammer" over the heads of medical practioners, nurses and hospitals. Incompetence does not recognize a degree!
A doctor never read the file...the 85 year old patient was given a medication which she was ALLERGIC to. Within days, her skin broke into a rash. A clear indication to anyone with eyes to see and with ears to her complaints that something was WRONG!
No nurse made an "alert" call to the doctor. Hospice nurse dismissed the incident as a figament of an old woman's imagination as she sat in her wheelchair and scratched at her skin.
When,she passed away 3 months later, her skin looked as if she had been beaten with a meat mallet as she was viewed at the funeral parlor.
The elderly have a small voice and when they try to project: "pay attention", they do get ignored. With any human being subjected to dangerous medical care, everyone involved needs to be held accountable. If, you "see" it and it is wrong...you make it right!
People complain about malpractice suits costing the system....if, you do not like it...then change the system that allows mistakes to be made so easily by those that have those degrees that allow them to open up your skin and cut.
All patients, and especially the elderly, need an advocate. Everyone!
I was with a friend who had been in a horrible car accident. His jaw was hanging down, his trachea was ruptured and his forehead had 71 stitches in it. The consulting ENT told him to go home and come back for the surgery. I was sitting there with my mouth hanging open so I followed the doctor outside and chewed him out. When he walked off from me, every nurse at the nurse's station applauded. The charge nurse walked over and said "that ass-chewing was long overdue, thank you".
The point is that my friend would have possibly gone home had I not been sitting there. This was in OKC and he lived in Austin!!
patA: I am truly blest with a son, who, like Shirley McClain in "Terms of Endearment" when her daughter was dying of breast cancer, pitched a bitch to get her her pain meds. on time, & would do the same thing only MORE so. lol And his 6'2" former Marine brother would be standing behind him with a "withering" stare to back him up.
They BOTH know how important it is to have an "advocate" for a patient; I taught them well! And I'm so proud of them as terrific people making the world a little better place.
Advocates for the elderly is certainly a great need. See my post at 8.6 about my mother's situation. She did pretty well, but she just wasn't up to dealing with a doctor or hospital if things weren't going just right. Fortunately, I'm pushy so I could make sure that they didn't ignore things -- they knew I was right there watching and they were pretty careful and attentive. They might have been anyway, but it doesn't hurt to have someone keeping an eye on them.
Socialized Medicine at it's best! Might want to make sure you tatoo "good" or "bad" if you are having an amputation in the near future in the US as we will be in the same situation soon. Even the liberal media is starting to implode on Obama and his minions. Big govt means big problems.
I agree that the insurance / medical industries need regulation but not direction and definatly not be run by the govt. Is there anything they don't F up? At least with previous admistrations "Rep & Dem" alike I could expect to still be a free country and proud of what we stand for. Now with Obama, Pelosi and Reed at the helm we are going to be a weak nation just like these little socialist nations.
Yes, Kevin they don't F***-up S.S. checks-right on time EVERY month & I have LESS trouble with Medicare for my husband than I EVER had with ANY private insurance. Who could of guessed?
Back in the '60's/'70's, two ladies underwent surgery on the same day in the UK - one had a radical mastectomy, the other had surgery to remove growths on her vocal cords. They both happened to be named Mrs. Robinson, as I recall - and, yes, the surgeons got it wrong way round - but, whatever excuse one might make regarding confusing the names, one of the ladies was white and the other black - so, for this poor lady - I don't thing writing "WRONG LEG" in bright red letters would have helped - the arrogant, careless s-o-b of a surgeon was probably dyslexic, illiterate and drunk - apart altogether from obviously not giving a "s**t" in the first place. Whenever the courts get around to assessing damages, there should be absolutely no consideration given to her obviously limited life-expectancy - she should be awarded the utter maximum possible settlement - just as might be made to a child one 1/10th of her age - as some miserable compensation and apology for this gross and callous intrusion into the peace and serenity she is entitled to in her late years.
Had Shoulder surgery 3 months ago (here in USA). Before I was given any kind of sedative at all the surgeon came it and ask me to verify which shoulder I was having surgery on and then put his initials on that shoulder with a marking pen. Now how simple is that. Surgeons see hundreds of patient and do a lot of surgeries. If you rely on their memory to know what comes off you are putting your self at risk but then there is the fact that some surgeons are just totally incompetent.
The unfortunate problem here is that the insurance company will try to "spin" this case out for years hoping that the poor lady will have passed on by the time the courts make an award. The "system" is cruel and heartless. I'm very pleased for you, Tamara, that you were in the hands of a surgeon who cared!
Similar situation happened with my family, there wasn't anything to mark as it was sinus surgery - but we were asked no less than 4 times by 4 different people on the surgical team including the surgeon what proceedure was being done. Plus, just prior to surgery both the surgeon and myself signed off on a paper that was rather explicit on the proceedure - oh and it was witnessed by the or nurse.
I've been marked prior to going under for every surgery I've ever had. I didn't know until I started reading stories like this that there are doctors who don't do that. It seems like common sense! Why don't they do it?
The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons advocate for the surgeon to sign the site of the proposed future surgery. JAHCO is also a joint accreditation service of hospitals that require the surgical to be signed prior to the patient even going to the operating room. I am a surgeon and I always sign the site and explain to the patient that I have to sign their body part, so as to let everyone know what part I am operating on. Once the OR, I prep my own patient and drape my own patient. Before any skin incision is even made, a time out is taken and the surgical consent is then again reviewed to let everyone know what is being done and why. It is wrong and unfortunate what happened to the lady in the article, and she and her family should sued the surgeon in this case. If the the surgeon and OR personnel had done the things that I just described, this could have been prevented.
Never, never go into a hospital without your personal patient advocate with you...and insist that they are sitting in on all conferences with doctors, surgeons, and anyone else connected with your care while you are there. Get a friend or family member to be there. When you are ailing you do not always think of the right questions to ask...You do not always hear what is being told you by the doctor(S). Someone you trust, who has your best interest at heart may be your only hope in a situation like this.
Granted...it does take someone willing to 'be there' for you. But it is really worth it. I was hospitalized a few years ago, and had it not been for my friend I would've been given the wrong meds post op. It seems that in the room directly above me there was another woman with the same name as mine. Somehow the meds for her were sent to me. My friend had made herself known to the hospital staff and my surgeon by being there with me through the whole episode. She familiarized herself, through our talks with the doctor and others, with what to expect post op, my meds while in the hospital, and recovery and follow up after I went home. When the meds were brought into the room, my friend asked what the meds were (She did this with each person who brought me medication.). When told what they were she knew that they were not mine...and kept the nurse from making me take the pills. Of course I also refused, once Janet questioned the nurse...but had I been alone, I probably would've taken them.
I know. I know. Not nearly so bad as what happened to the 91 year old lady....but someone should've been there....the magic marker could've been used....to make sure the people who took her to surgery knew which leg was to be amputated.
In the end we are still 'on our own' in these situations. You must be vocal and stand up for your self...ask questions and don't take anything for granted. And always have your own 'team' there with you...you patient advocate.
Actually... Austria (this womans surgery took place in Vienna) was ranked #9 on the World Health Organizations list of countries healthcare... The US came in at #37 just above Slovenia and Cuba...
Some more Global Healthcare facts for you.....
1. The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as every other developed nation. This is largely due to administrative costs which account for 19-25% of healthcare costs, and up to 34% at for-profit hospitals.
2. Other than South Africa, America is the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens.
3. Yet, the US ranks 26th in infant mortality and 24th in the number of healthy years a person can expect to live - putting America’s healthcare system in the company of Cuba and Slovenia rather than Canada and Western European nations.
4. And, despite ludicrous right-wing anecdotal claims of high dissatisfaction among those who live in countries with universal healthcare, the reality is that, with the exception of Italy, Americans are more dissatisfied with their healthcare than are the citizens of every other developed nation, including England, France, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, US doctors spend less time with patients that do doctors in other nations.
how sad!
This is why laws allowing patients like this to sue the doctor for medical malpractice are necessary in a sane society. No one should be exempt from responsibility for their negligence.
This is what happened when doctors don't follow protocol.
I would guess that: A. Her family may not have been strongly involved. B. That for the surgeons, usually they work on much younger patients. The legs of many 91 year olds look diseased compared to younger legs. Because of that, they didn't catch it just by looking at it as would usually be the case. C. They were in a hurry, or it was the second or third surgery of the day. D. The patient was prepped and draped by a different crew than the OR nurses. Walking into an OR with the patient prepped and draped, the limb the only thing exposed, they just didn't check. E. The surgeons didn't look at the chart carefully to determine why they were removing the leg. Without knowing that, they may have assumed bone cancer or something else invisible.
And it is possible that the chart had right instead of left leg or vice versa. Once in a great while that happens.
John Toradze - NONE of your explanations is a valid excuse for this accident. This should have been checked and rechecked by more than one person before the surgery began. I hope that she ends up owning the hospital and everything that belongs to the surgeon, including a portion of his future earnings. I bet he would have paid better attention to what he was doing if this had been his mother or one of his kids.
John Toradze, do you work in the medical field? Sounds like you do. A surgeon worth his money would have been double positive that he was amputating the right leg.
Someone other than the OR nurses draped the patient? Are you nuts? Someone not on the OR team just walks in and drapes the patient and leaves?
The surgeon didn't look at the chart to see why they were removing the leg? The surgeon is the one who made the choice to amputate her leg. Her ob/gyn certainly had nothing to do with it.
Surgeons do amputate older patient's legs. Have you heard of diabetes? Have you heard of surgeons who only see geriatric patients? It's true. There are doctors/surgeons who specialize in geriatric medicine.
I know that you are in the medical field. You may only be a scrub tech but you know enough about OR to write about it.
Next time you write something up like this, use "I" statements.
This is a tragedy. I hope the doctor gets his license suspended for a good amount of time.
Poor lady.
John T. #1.3:
A.) Once a patient is up in the O.R., family "involvement" is a moot point.
B.) Yes, surgeons usually do work on younger patients because MOST of the people alive are UNDER 91. Having said that, I don't know about you, but I could never tell just by "looking" which leg needed amputation ALL THE TIME.
When I was in nursing school, my 1st. day of clincals at the hospital entailed "shadowing" a patient who was diabetic & needed a toe removed. We were taught that as a nurse preping a patient for amputation surgery, to use a marker to either right on the extremity or at least, in the case of a Big Toe to circle it with marker. This is only one of several things done to reinforce that patient's I.D. & reason for surgery are properly identified.
C.) Maybe they WERE in a hurry or it was the 2nd or 3rd surg. of the day or maybe, as I've seen, a surgeon was "hung-over" & wanted NO TALKING in the surgical theatre other than minimal sound & then, nearly a whisper.
D.) Yes, charts can be wrong which is why we have loads of redundant back-ups to PREVENT incidents such as this fro happening. It is the nurse's responsibility as much as the surgeon's to KNOW what is going on with the patient most esp. what they are having done.
Sometimes things like this do happen & they are a tragedy. But NOT knowing the patient nor her medical Hx., I'd guess that at that age, it was diabetic related & w/o either of her legs, she will fairly soon fall into a terminal case of pneumonia due to inactivity, weakened immune system or as often happens, losing the will to live. TRULY TRAGIC!
When I'm 91 they can amputate my wrong cashew; I'll not sue.
I sometimes think that some people just assume that patients in their 90s are going to die anyway so they are really doing their best for them. Had a great aunt at 99, that got gangreen from an infected toe. Nursing home didn't catch it until her 70 year old daughter in law demanded they get the doctor to look at it. They put her in the hospital and amputated the leg without checking how far the infection had gone. It was already up in her abdomin. Since at that point they could have done nothing to stop the infection, they should have kept her comfortable and let her die with dignity, rather than put her through an amputation.
It's all very simple John, it's called a permenent marker. X marks the spot. There was no precaution taken by the hospital. There are no excuses, that is their job to make sure they are doing things right. Hopefully something will happen to these idiot's that have done this. Here in America they would probably be promoted to Cheif of Staff, and in turn blame it on the janitor.
Why are people trying to justify bulls**t with a bunch of lame excuses why this could have happened.
What a shame.....can't imagine what I'd do. Can you say KACHING!!!! I guess her great greandchildren's children won't have to worry about paying for college or anything else for that matter.
Hey they had a 50/50 chance ....
I cannot believe that you would joke about this. What an ugly person you are.
She hasn't a chance of winning a law suit........... She doesn't have a leg to stand on!
LOL
Thats not funny how you like it if it was your mother,father or one of your children if you have any which i hope you dont!!!!!!
Edward, you are an ass. I put you on ignore.
When I saw the headline, I wondered how long it would take for some a-hole to bring up that OLD,OLD joke. It took 27 minutes!!!!
Edward my boy, how would you like it if you went to this same surgeon for the same operation and instead of removing your ailing leg, he removed your testicles instead? ...just sayin
:-)
I do not know about anyone else. But I hear applause in my state:)
Maybe in the sue happy USA. Not sure about other countries.
Sue happy???
The doctors amputated a HEALTHY leg.
How bad a doctor do they have to be not to be able to tell the difference between a healthy and diseased leg?? Do you want a doctor that negligent to keep his license and maybe someday operate on you or your loved one?
The only way she can protect others from suffering a similar fate at that idiot's hands is to make sure the law strips him of his license and pays her for her loss, including the added cost of special care and equipment for a now leg-less person.
With one leg, she still could have gotten around some and even had a prosthetic leg made so she could have still walked. Now, she is wheelchair bound for life and will need help getting in and out of bed and even going to the bathroom. She'll require 24 hour care that she may not have needed before. How is she supposed to pay for all of that and (more importantly) why should she have to when it was 100% their mistake??
She could walk on two prostheses. Many amputees do. But at 91 it is very unlikely to happen.
What she can do is swim with fins on her stumps. If she can manage it.
I'm the first person to spout off about frivolous lawsuits, but if someone amputated my HEALTHY leg, I'd have a lawyer on the phone as soon as I regained consciousness. Prosthetics or not, it's inexcusable.
Anybody who thinks that's funny is a true a*^#@!e......
when I had surgery on my shoulder the surgeon met with me before anesthesia and used a magic marker to mark the broken shoulder. Simple.
This is not the first time that it has happend.It has Happend here in the USA .
This is a good argument to use a magic marker to write: WRONG LEG!!!!
Seriously, you have to do this for any limb amputation. I wonder if you get the second (correct) one for free...?
That's no pun - I wonder if the doc would get away with double-billing you or your insurance carrier?!?
yep doctor made a mistake on my dads catorac eye,put 2 lens instead of one,made him blind in that eye,then sent him to another doctor to fix it,but the doctor who made him blind still got paid,had the nerve to send my dad a bill every month,which my dad paid..my dad live on 600 dollars amonth ss.....that happend in camp hill pa...
Too bad that your father paid the doctor a dime. How did the doctor have the nerve to ask for payment when this was his mistake?
I'm sorry about your dad.
dewalt: What hospital? #1 son lives in Wormleysburg. No eye probs., but want to warn him. Thanks! (NOT Holy Spirit, I HOPE!)
What happened to all the safety checks. Right patient, right surgery, right limb etc. Are those in the healthcare system getting sloppy because of assembly-line service?
Not in the hospital I work in. Surgical patients good limbs are always marked "wrong limb" as a safeguard check. and we have a "time out" before surgery begins to perform our checks, such as right patient, right limb, right procedure, etc. I would like to think that here in the United States, those precautions are a standard of care in every hospital.
They have free government healthcare. This is what you get for free.
I worked in an ER and we had a doctor who really scared me. She would ask for our opinions and also read out of anatomy book. One night a patient was admitted who was 1. elderly 2. frail 3. had asthma.3. thin.
I picked his chart up and started back to the trauma desk when I saw she had ordered 150mg of Demerol. I rushed back to find her and showed her the chart and her exact words were "thank you,______, you saved my life". I said "no, I saved the patient's life.
All doctors aren't airheads. In ER there were usually enough people around that it would be hard to make a mistake, at least in the one where I worked. I know I stopped a doctor from sending an elderly man home one night. The doctor was angry and made me help hold the man's leg while he did another exam. Part of the man's bowel was looped around and he would have died within hours had he been sent home.
A good doctor does good work.
OMG patA! I just cked. Mosby's & a sub-Q, IM or P.O. is 50-150 mg. q. 3-4 hrs. prn, but for a elderly, frail, asthma & thin it would of KILLED him! Talk about an Angel of Mercy as opposed to an Angel of DEATH.
Bet she-the doctor- was from another country. I have NO idea how they get licenses. I think it's because they can READ English as opposed to SPEAKING/WRITING it.
We have one here now that is an idiot & although I'm retired, yrs. of keeping quiet when NOT asked for MY opinion makes me cringe when someone tells me he's their Dr., but he flat-out lied to my husband & his sister when their father was dying & his mother STILL goes to him. His idea of Tx. of her Rheumatoid Arthritis is giving my mother-in-law Oxycontin for pain at night. GGGGRRRRRRRR! But some people just can't be helped.
Keep doing your good work! God Bless!
I am very concerned with how some (not all) medical people treat our elderly. I got a first hand look at it when taking care of my father. I had to intervene a number of times when I felt he was not getting appropriate treatment. One time I walked out of an emergency room and left my Dad there to force them to admit him. (Talk about tough love!) Primary care doctor had told me to take him to the emergency room so he would be admitted that night and she wouldn't have been able to until the next day so I knew he needed to be admitted. I had one specialist refuse to change a medicine my father reacted to so badly to that he was hospitallized, who took off on a trip with no other doctors covering his patients. I got the family doctor to take him off the med, found another specialist, who actually disagreed totally with the first specialist's diagnosis. I was actually told by the first specialist that Medicare would not allow me to change my father's doctors so I had to go along with whatever he said. Anyone who takes care of an elderly family member over a period of years has a number of tales to tell about having to fight for proper care for their family members.
On the other side of the coin, I also ran into a number of caring respectful doctors, nurses, therapists, etc. who would give elderly patients their very best.
I certainly hope this 91 year old lady was not a case of someone just thinking "she won't be around much longer anyway" and getting careless because they did not think her important. It is sad that parts of our society does not always value our elderly, once they are no longer able to care for themsleves.
EAE -- my mother lived to be 97 with a good quality of life and part of that was due to the several wonderful doctors who treated her over the last 15 years of her life. There was only one who didn't give their best attention to her and I fired his @$$ after he showed me that he just wasn't interested in giving her his best. Her other doctors were just wonderful and, while she had a number of health problems, she remained active physically and mentally right up until the day she died. And her death that day was a surprise since she had been out with friends earlier and had been just fine.
I know there are doctors out there who aren't that caring but good ones can be found and we were very lucky to have found great ones for every health concern for which she needed treatment.
At 91 year's old she should have been at least compensated or her family in the millions for @!$%# like that, and everyone involved should have been FIRED !
This would not have happened under OBAMA CARE !
Your absolutely right...It wouldn't have happened under Obama Care because the poor 91 yr old lady wouldn't have been able to be treated. Live the system before you praise it dude.
And it has nothing at all to do with the health care plan anyhow. The doctors messed up not the system. Blame the idiotic doctors. They should be the ones paying for the costs!!
and aww poor lady. Man I would sue their @$$#$ for my amputated good-leg, psychological trauma, and the leg that was Supposed to be amputated!!!
LIVE - and maybe you can live it before you criticize it.... fair is fair...but sure, doctor's fault.
What are you basing your completely biased and incorrect statement on? If she's 91, in the USA she's got Medicare and would totally be treated. You have no facts, just anger. It's like all the teabaggers that we're questioned about Obamas tax policy and they all said how angry they are about having to pay more taxes, when THE FACTS are that their taxes actually went DOWN. They don't even know anything about what they are so angry about, and neither do you.
You should ease up, learn more about what you seem to be somehow passionate about, and try to emulate your username more.... live, laugh, love.
If everyone is covered rationing will be necessary as occurrs in countries with similar systems. At 91 she will be deemed to old to spend the money on and will not be allowed to receive the operation.
B.S., Gary. You've been drinking the crazy Palin's koolaid, haven't you?
patA -- No koolaid, just investigated the systems in Canada and England. You can do it too, just takes a little time. Good luck with that naivete.
afeck1, #10: And you know this HOW?
Jesus: FYI i have lived it, experienced it, and watch my grandmother be put on "hold" because she wasn't young enough to get the procedure she needed. and that is what I base my facts on...Not anger or ignorance.
V...: I said absolutely nothing about taxes. And yes i agree with you..half of the people who critisize Obama Care DON'T know hardley anything about it. But there IS more to it than what is said in the media. oh and i do practice my name, just not when it comes to something that I oppose.
Now you think this is a joke? Because Obama anything would not have mistakes such as this? Have you been living in the real world?
This poor poor lady. What a horrible travesty!
don't those doctors know the difference between a healthy leg and one that is unhealthy
Obviously NOT
Surgeons don't do an examination prior to surgery... the patient is prepped and they do what the paperwork tells them to do...
That's scary. Why would they do it that way?
I bet it was due to diabetes and I can't imagine him not seeing the differences in her legs. I can see the difference.
Me neither, patA. Any surgeon who takes the "word " of what was written on the chart w/o doing at least a cursery exam of the extremity to be operated on, is an accident waiting to happen.
Incompetence knows no borders.
Ain't that the truth!
Wow!!!! The ignorance of some people. Always ready to blame someone else. It is a shame that this lady had her legs removed. Why not concentrate on the sadness of it rather that point fingers. It is the doctors who are to blame not the U.S President. You really need to get a life. Focus on trying to change the system. Instead of b****** about it. And the fact it didnt happen here.
Must be an American.
If you concentrate hard enough with enough sadness, will her leg grow back?
Really -- Medical malpractice similar to this case happens everyday in the USA. Many thousands of people are injured and killed by medical mistakes every year. Do you seriously not know this? The information is readily available with minimal effort. Check it out.
I think that "Really!!!!"'s point is that teh majority of the comments on this page are crusading this and that, arguing about who did what and how what works.
When really, a "that sucks, I hope she gets compensation for that. and check that doctor's credentials" would probably have sufficed.
Maybe some extra stuff on advice to avoid shady/incompetent doctors
If this woman or her family sue the hospital and / or doctor, they'll likely lose.
She no longer has a legal leg on which to stand.
I know. I am soooooo bad! But I couldn't help myself.
American health care costs an arm and a leg. Eurpoean healthcare costs two legs.
You and Edward from a few posts back, should have a comedy act routine in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm sure you'll find one legged, survivors of landmines who would give you a sitting ovation! .....just sayin!
Welcome to Socialized (Government controlled) healthcare.
I'm sorry for you leg, ma'am, and I hope they compensate you fully, and punish the guilty party(s).
Actually... Austria (this womans surgery took place in Vienna) was ranked #9 on the World Health Organizations list of countries healthcare... The US came in at #37 just above Slovenia and Cuba...
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report -
Rank Country
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
Some more Global Healthcare facts for you.....
1. The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as every other developed nation. This is largely due to administrative costs which account for 19-25% of healthcare costs, and up to 34% at for-profit hospitals.
2. Other than South Africa, America is the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens.
3. Yet, the US ranks 26th in infant mortality and 24th in the number of healthy years a person can expect to live - putting America’s healthcare system in the company of Cuba and Slovenia rather than Canada and Western European nations.
4. And, despite ludicrous right-wing anecdotal claims of high dissatisfaction among those who live in countries with universal healthcare, the reality is that, with the exception of Italy, Americans are more dissatisfied with their healthcare than are the citizens of every other developed nation, including England, France, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, US doctors spend less time with patients that do doctors in other nations.
V -- The World Health Organization you cite is a United Nations entity. That tells us all we need to know about their objectivity. The UN is a know hater of the USA. When the rich around the world need top quality health care they come to the USA, not to Andorra , Malta or Greece. The next time you have an emergency why don't you head to France?
Oh please! This happens/ed currently and in the past. Don't go blaming a great solution to make things seem bad. I heard about a botched surgery like this one, and the insurance company refused to pay for the botch job (which it should...that needs to be absorbed by the hospital), but then they refused to pay for the second surgery because it had 'already' been done. Sounds like money hungry grubbing to me, not socialized medicine.
I like my healthcare because it is private. Once it becomes public, the quality goes down. Remember that public employees are lazy union workers.
Hey V, SUSFROMBRISTOL on the second page says it happens everyday in the UK.....hmmmmmmm?
Ah, yes...shame on "socialized" health care. We never see that happen here in the U.S.
Oh, wait!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n19_v87/ai_16717100/
http://www.medindia.net/news/Mans-Wrong-Leg-Amputated-Facing-the-Language-Barrier-in-the-US-40250-1.htm
Two examples that I found in two minutes of searching Google. Mistakes are not restricted to countries with universal health care, so let's not try to make this woman's tragedy about your political views.
Why must you people bring you personal agendas to a thread that is about an elderly lady who lost her leg due to an incompetent staff in a hospital?
Agreed, patA:
BTW, "V" the WHO report you cite is 10 YEARS OLD! And although i didn't get into it, it superficially didn't cite statistics & criteria for their judgements.
mybestfriend: your records are more public than you realize. The hospital you go into OWNS your records. Quality goes down when records become public? And you know this HOW since you've never had any other kind of insurance as we all have had here in the U.S. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, Sweetie, but NURSES are UNIONIZED in many places. Better be sure to ck. that out in case you need to go into a hospital or let your EMTs know after your car accident or fall down the steps or seizure, etc. You get my drift?
...........and this is why malpractice suits have to be the "hammer" over the heads of medical practioners, nurses and hospitals. Incompetence does not recognize a degree!
A doctor never read the file...the 85 year old patient was given a medication which she was ALLERGIC to. Within days, her skin broke into a rash. A clear indication to anyone with eyes to see and with ears to her complaints that something was WRONG!
No nurse made an "alert" call to the doctor. Hospice nurse dismissed the incident as a figament of an old woman's imagination as she sat in her wheelchair and scratched at her skin.
When,she passed away 3 months later, her skin looked as if she had been beaten with a meat mallet as she was viewed at the funeral parlor.
The elderly have a small voice and when they try to project: "pay attention", they do get ignored. With any human being subjected to dangerous medical care, everyone involved needs to be held accountable. If, you "see" it and it is wrong...you make it right!
People complain about malpractice suits costing the system....if, you do not like it...then change the system that allows mistakes to be made so easily by those that have those degrees that allow them to open up your skin and cut.
All patients, and especially the elderly, need an advocate. Everyone!
I was with a friend who had been in a horrible car accident. His jaw was hanging down, his trachea was ruptured and his forehead had 71 stitches in it. The consulting ENT told him to go home and come back for the surgery. I was sitting there with my mouth hanging open so I followed the doctor outside and chewed him out. When he walked off from me, every nurse at the nurse's station applauded. The charge nurse walked over and said "that ass-chewing was long overdue, thank you".
The point is that my friend would have possibly gone home had I not been sitting there. This was in OKC and he lived in Austin!!
patA: I am truly blest with a son, who, like Shirley McClain in "Terms of Endearment" when her daughter was dying of breast cancer, pitched a bitch to get her her pain meds. on time, & would do the same thing only MORE so. lol And his 6'2" former Marine brother would be standing behind him with a "withering" stare to back him up.
They BOTH know how important it is to have an "advocate" for a patient; I taught them well! And I'm so proud of them as terrific people making the world a little better place.
Advocates for the elderly is certainly a great need. See my post at 8.6 about my mother's situation. She did pretty well, but she just wasn't up to dealing with a doctor or hospital if things weren't going just right. Fortunately, I'm pushy so I could make sure that they didn't ignore things -- they knew I was right there watching and they were pretty careful and attentive. They might have been anyway, but it doesn't hurt to have someone keeping an eye on them.
How anyone can make jokes about this leaves me speechless. What would they say if it happened to them?
I thought you were speechless.
Socialized Medicine at it's best! Might want to make sure you tatoo "good" or "bad" if you are having an amputation in the near future in the US as we will be in the same situation soon. Even the liberal media is starting to implode on Obama and his minions. Big govt means big problems.
I agree that the insurance / medical industries need regulation but not direction and definatly not be run by the govt. Is there anything they don't F up? At least with previous admistrations "Rep & Dem" alike I could expect to still be a free country and proud of what we stand for. Now with Obama, Pelosi and Reed at the helm we are going to be a weak nation just like these little socialist nations.
Please look at my posts #16.1 and #16.2.... I don't want to cut and paste unnecessarily.
See above...............
Yes, Kevin they don't F***-up S.S. checks-right on time EVERY month & I have LESS trouble with Medicare for my husband than I EVER had with ANY private insurance. Who could of guessed?
V. please read #18.5, it is at least remotely legitimate.
Back in the '60's/'70's, two ladies underwent surgery on the same day in the UK - one had a radical mastectomy, the other had surgery to remove growths on her vocal cords. They both happened to be named Mrs. Robinson, as I recall - and, yes, the surgeons got it wrong way round - but, whatever excuse one might make regarding confusing the names, one of the ladies was white and the other black - so, for this poor lady - I don't thing writing "WRONG LEG" in bright red letters would have helped - the arrogant, careless s-o-b of a surgeon was probably dyslexic, illiterate and drunk - apart altogether from obviously not giving a "s**t" in the first place. Whenever the courts get around to assessing damages, there should be absolutely no consideration given to her obviously limited life-expectancy - she should be awarded the utter maximum possible settlement - just as might be made to a child one 1/10th of her age - as some miserable compensation and apology for this gross and callous intrusion into the peace and serenity she is entitled to in her late years.
Had Shoulder surgery 3 months ago (here in USA). Before I was given any kind of sedative at all the surgeon came it and ask me to verify which shoulder I was having surgery on and then put his initials on that shoulder with a marking pen. Now how simple is that. Surgeons see hundreds of patient and do a lot of surgeries. If you rely on their memory to know what comes off you are putting your self at risk but then there is the fact that some surgeons are just totally incompetent.
The unfortunate problem here is that the insurance company will try to "spin" this case out for years hoping that the poor lady will have passed on by the time the courts make an award. The "system" is cruel and heartless. I'm very pleased for you, Tamara, that you were in the hands of a surgeon who cared!
Similar situation happened with my family, there wasn't anything to mark as it was sinus surgery - but we were asked no less than 4 times by 4 different people on the surgical team including the surgeon what proceedure was being done. Plus, just prior to surgery both the surgeon and myself signed off on a paper that was rather explicit on the proceedure - oh and it was witnessed by the or nurse.
I can't fault the level of care we received :-)
Well put Tamara.
I've been marked prior to going under for every surgery I've ever had. I didn't know until I started reading stories like this that there are doctors who don't do that. It seems like common sense! Why don't they do it?
The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons advocate for the surgeon to sign the site of the proposed future surgery. JAHCO is also a joint accreditation service of hospitals that require the surgical to be signed prior to the patient even going to the operating room. I am a surgeon and I always sign the site and explain to the patient that I have to sign their body part, so as to let everyone know what part I am operating on. Once the OR, I prep my own patient and drape my own patient. Before any skin incision is even made, a time out is taken and the surgical consent is then again reviewed to let everyone know what is being done and why. It is wrong and unfortunate what happened to the lady in the article, and she and her family should sued the surgeon in this case. If the the surgeon and OR personnel had done the things that I just described, this could have been prevented.
what the ...If a doctor cannot tell the difference between a diseased leg and a bad leg
then they should be court marshalled or worse. Pinhead doctors . Yes use a magic marker
and make a dotted line where they are supposed to cut. this is unbelievable.
Never, never go into a hospital without your personal patient advocate with you...and insist that they are sitting in on all conferences with doctors, surgeons, and anyone else connected with your care while you are there. Get a friend or family member to be there. When you are ailing you do not always think of the right questions to ask...You do not always hear what is being told you by the doctor(S). Someone you trust, who has your best interest at heart may be your only hope in a situation like this.
Granted...it does take someone willing to 'be there' for you. But it is really worth it. I was hospitalized a few years ago, and had it not been for my friend I would've been given the wrong meds post op. It seems that in the room directly above me there was another woman with the same name as mine. Somehow the meds for her were sent to me. My friend had made herself known to the hospital staff and my surgeon by being there with me through the whole episode. She familiarized herself, through our talks with the doctor and others, with what to expect post op, my meds while in the hospital, and recovery and follow up after I went home. When the meds were brought into the room, my friend asked what the meds were (She did this with each person who brought me medication.). When told what they were she knew that they were not mine...and kept the nurse from making me take the pills. Of course I also refused, once Janet questioned the nurse...but had I been alone, I probably would've taken them.
I know. I know. Not nearly so bad as what happened to the 91 year old lady....but someone should've been there....the magic marker could've been used....to make sure the people who took her to surgery knew which leg was to be amputated.
In the end we are still 'on our own' in these situations. You must be vocal and stand up for your self...ask questions and don't take anything for granted. And always have your own 'team' there with you...you patient advocate.
The entire operating team should be tosses in the 'hole'..
LOL, I need to make a hole. Anyone who pisses me off goes in it. XD "You! In the hole!"
Where are all the must-have-tort-reform-now people now?
Actually... Austria (this womans surgery took place in Vienna) was ranked #9 on the World Health Organizations list of countries healthcare... The US came in at #37 just above Slovenia and Cuba...
Some more Global Healthcare facts for you.....
1. The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as every other developed nation. This is largely due to administrative costs which account for 19-25% of healthcare costs, and up to 34% at for-profit hospitals.
2. Other than South Africa, America is the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens.
3. Yet, the US ranks 26th in infant mortality and 24th in the number of healthy years a person can expect to live - putting America’s healthcare system in the company of Cuba and Slovenia rather than Canada and Western European nations.
4. And, despite ludicrous right-wing anecdotal claims of high dissatisfaction among those who live in countries with universal healthcare, the reality is that, with the exception of Italy, Americans are more dissatisfied with their healthcare than are the citizens of every other developed nation, including England, France, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, US doctors spend less time with patients that do doctors in other nations.