It's a free country. Let the insurance industry decide what kinds of coverage to offer, and how complex and expensive it should be. We trust them. They're private for-profit businesses, and the free market always knows whats best. Just look at the housing and financial markets! We don't trust our democratically elected leaders. Tea Party 2010!!!! woooo000!

There is a reason people between 18 and 35 are called "the young indestructibles". It is because a vast majority of them don't need insurance and it is pretty much a complete waste of their money (and ours). An illness being costly enough to require insurance is absolutely NOT guaranteed before the age of 35, in fact it is extremely unlikely.

In the highly unlikely case that they do become ill, our bankruptcy laws are set up so that a bankruptcy wouldn't even show up on their record after 40 or so. Yet for some reason we are set on bankrupting the nation as a whole to keep this from happening to a small percentage of people.

Health care needs to be affordable to all. We give billions to fight in two wars, and still prioritize that over the health care needs of all Americans.

SAME old crap, ERIC, you want insurance pay for it, you expect me to pay for it, do without.

Right, people age 18 to 35 never get sick or have serious accidents. And I'll bet that when they do get sick or have an accident most of them are perfectly capable of paying tens of thousands of dollars that it costs just to stay in the hospital. Especially those 18 year-old burger flippers. You know what? I think I'll just cancel my health insurance. After all, I have been wanting that expensive pair of shoes. If something happens I'll just declare bankruptcy and everybody else can pay for me.

I think we should do away with our socialistic Public Education system, and instead divert all the money to a Public Health system. That way, everyone gets health care, and for those of you who want kids, fine, have all you want, but you have to pay for their education.

Education is not a federal responsibility, neither is health care. So, your comment really makes no sense.

She can look forward to getting fined for not paying for insurance she can not afford

Eric - Blah Blah

Greg - Strawman much

Everyone is talking about their "right to this...", "their right to that ..."

When exactly does MY right to keep what I have earned, regardless of the amount, kick in? When exactly does MY right to NOT have the govt pick my pocket go into effect?

Why does it seem that everyone else seems to be having more of a right to my paycheck than I do?

Up Uranus –

The new Federal minimum wage has been raised to $7.25 per hour according to my research. $10 per hour is a step up. $7.25 per a 40-hour week for 48 weeks is $13,920. If you consider a FICA tax (mandatory) of 7.5% and other mandatory state taxes such as State Disability Tax and other mandatory taxes I estimate a 90% take home pay. 90% of comes out to $12,528 income per year. Now………

An average apartment in an area of Los Angeles where you don’t have gang members as neighbors and can live in minimal safety runs about $900 to $1,100 (one bedroom) this is to live just a step above doghouse level. Lets split the difference and say $1,000 a month, this does not include food, and utilities or fuel and insurance for your auto should you own an automobile. You can add the numerous costs of life and see what the picture looks like.

Lets wrap it up $1,000 rent per month for twelve months is $12,000 a difference from a $12,528 take home pay of $528 dollars. Can a person live on $528? Wait I forgot to mention utilities oh what the heck you can do the rest of the numbers yourself. What about out of pocket health care costs?

Was there a recent book with the title “Savage Nation”?

“No Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." - Leviathan

I would only add mercifully short……………..

PS: California is seriously considering reducing the hourly wage (to $7.25) for something like six months because of our budget deficit for state workers and then making up the loss of pay down the road when the state is economically stable. If things were not bad enough to drive most folks insane as we watch millions being paid in “bonus” money. Like the bonus pay for the top CEOs of the health industry, makes one want to holler.

Have a nice day………ask for a raise, wait you might get fired, forget it.

moind, again...they are called "the young indestructibles' because for every 1 that may temporarily need coverage, there are 1,000 who will pay a couple thousand dollars a year (every year) and never need it.

"After all, I have been wanting that expensive pair of shoes."

Try replacing "that expensive pair of shoes" with "to fix my car so I can get to work" or "to get a two bedroom apartment for my family" or "to feed my kid" or....

Boo Hoo!!!

#1 There are 52 Weeks a Year. Not 48.

Sorry that you feel entitled to a vacation too.

#2 Maybe you should have prepared better in life if you are making minimum wage. Maybe made some better choices, or maybe the choice you made was that money didn't matter to you. Again look at yourself in the mirror!

#3 If you live in California you pay much more for just about everything. Maybe you should move to a State with no income tax, but wait, if you make minimum wage you probably get that back at the end of the year in a refund too.

I should not have to pay because you did not want to pay attention in school or whatever lame excuse you want to use for your low income.

I work 80 hours a week so that my wife can stay at home with the kids and I can pay for my own private insurance. I did not grow up wealthy. I did not not graduate from college.

I JUST DON'T BLAME PEOPLE WHO MADE BETTER CHOICES THAN I DID FOR MY PROBLEMS AND EXPECT THEM TO PAY MY WAY BECAUSE OF MY SHORTCOMINGS!

2005fxdwgi -

Are You Talking to Me?

I could not give a hoot how many hours you work nor do I care if you ever take time off, possibly only your fellow workers would appreciate that. Nor do I want to hear how hard you work, your breaking my heart. Try working 110 hours and then come back and I might be impressed other than that you are only impressing yourself.

As for me I am retired living in paradise and I did not have to work 80 hours a week I did get a college education and then some more education (its called "post grad"), I thought it would not hurt, you know book learning. This was after I served my country, actually a member of a small group that volunteered (RA) during a time of war - Vietnam. You sound as if you are bitter in consideration to your station in life, that's not my problem, work more hours.

Furthermore, I could care less if you pay for your private health insurance or not, I have my mine and could give a squat if you have health insurance or not or if your wife and kids have to work or if they have health insurance. Not my problem. Your life situation is of no concern to me not in the least. I couldn't care if you and your family go homeless, you see its not my problem, its yours not mine. If so you probably made some poor choices, get it?

Keep working and paying taxes when you get to my age if you invested wisely you can sit back and watch the likes of yourself whine and bark of how hard you work then you can say as I have 'I made it", and I could give a squat if you do or not.

Have a nice day……….

Hey knuckledragger -

I came back only to blast that whiner I suspect was aiming at me and read your post, I only have a short amount of time and I don't have the motivation to explain in detail why we citizens and all modern civilized citizens of westernized and not westernized nations pay taxes.

I can only assume, as you describe yourself, you are an angry white male, to me you are an embarrassment to us other so-called white males. I'm supposing you are what my sister, and I do not approve of it, calls "white trash", the attributes of such you can delineate yourself because "white trash" is in defined differently according to the definer. Though I do recognize certain common markers one being a low level of education and ability to express and comprehend rudimentary subjects. Then there is the ego-centric aspect of entitlement, envy of non-whites that have achieved greater material success and so forth.

I suppose this is what the late Senator Byrd, among many "whites" I know call "white nig@!$s", no offense to people of darker complexion, I have played a round of Golf and have heard "black" Americans refer to this group of disgruntled sub-species of the human race in these terms. I do not use such language even if I see where it may fit.

I am only picking you out as representative of those that don't understand how governments work, no personnel offense intended, and have a veiled sense of entitlement, transparent, as I see it.

Have a nice day...................

Mike, why should I give a damn about the size of your apartment, your car, or your kid. That would be SOCIALIST.

moind, I see you've gone to the Bill Clinton/Barack Obama school of redefining words. Allowing people to keep their own money to spend as they please is anything BUT socialist. Forcing them into paying for something that they don't want or need "for the public good" IS socialist.

You are right Mike in SA, I don't need the public education system because I am single with no kids and I don't need the police force because I have my own gun.

I don't care how you spend your money as long as you are ready to refuse medical treatment for anything you can't pay for.

persevere,

Actually, the tag of "knuckledraggin angry white male" was bestowed upon me by a Now Gang/Code Pink beast. Someone that you and your sister undoubtedly are able to relate to.

am only picking you out as representative of those that don't understand how governments work, no personnel offense intended, and have a veiled sense of entitlement, transparent, as I see it.

Actually, I do understand how government works quite well thank you. I also understand how persons like yourself work. You are unable to answer the most simple of questions as to why others that choose to be a burden on society have more of a right to my paycheck vs those of us that have earned it. I certainly understand why we pay taxes, it is a simple concept actually so I can definitely understand how you would be so proud of yourself for understanding it, good for you and your sister! As for "no personnel offense", don'tworry I do not employ anyone so none of my personnel will take offense. As for PERSONAL offense, none taken in case that was your intent. For you to offend me I would have to actually respect your opinion, and I don't.

What you and your sister seem to be lacking in the understanding department is that those of us that earn a paycheck that does not come from the government are tired of busting our asses so that others can sit on theirs. Simple enough for you spunky?

And I noticed that you yourself spent a rather large portion of your diatribe on the race of a person posting on Newsvine. It seems that you are more predisposed to focus on a persons race vs. focusing on what the person has to say on a subject. I personally do not care if you are white, black, red, yellow, or whatever, but you certainly made that an issue, a persons race must be rather important to you.

Have a nice day ... both you and your sister.

P.S. Lastly, if you could please explain how I have a sense of entitlement for wanting to keep my own paycheck that would be great. You run your festering maw trying to "blast whiners" when in fact you simply end up making yourself look like a tool.

Knuckldragger AngryWhiteMale –

I like the way you put off on someone else your race laced screen name, I think you said someone gave that name to you, as though you are compelled to use such a name and are not comfortable but since this whomever “gave” it to you, you run with it regardless of the connotations and denotations. Somewhat of a flimsy excuse, rational for referring to yourself as an “Angry White Male”, what can you do, right? Someone “gave” you this name. Woo Hoo that really gives you credibility to spout your “they are taking my money”. If you didn’t know we have a progressive tax and the same amount is taken out of mine and all the other tax payers but you want to use race as a calling card and whine as a baby as though you are being singled out.

You say you understand the rational for a nation to levy a tax and talk out of the other side of your mouth to the contrary of being taxed, do you see the contradiction? As for my sister, she is a top executive for a national company and has a superior attitude and zero tolerance for what she call “white trash”, as though you are a reflection on all whites (I don’t think so). She would probably, all things considered, regard you as “white trash”, due to the race card screen name and your whining about paying an income tax as though you are the only one. Boo Hoo.

I see you caught the personal and personnel difference; wow you are some bright angry white male, you had to point out that makes you really impressive. So impressive, as far as I know one cannot go back and edit after the time runs out for changes to one’s post or I would have edited that just for you, I noticed after I posted it. Last thought before I return, is your anger does not impress me in the least it is rather laughable, you’re angry and white…….so what!!!!…who cares?

Who are these people sitting around taking money from “your paycheck”? To whom are you referring? Would you mind identifying the people taking money straight from your paycheck?

Your sense of entitlement is based on the fact that you fancy yourself as so significant that your anger; concerning your paycheck is so much more noteworthy than others or mine. There is a sense of entitlement that goes right over your head when you have this attitude, as you express such. This sense of infringement on only YOU screams out that you are entitled to dictate the terms of tax withholding, that YOU are being wronged and worse probably have no idea of the tax history of our nation. Did you know we had an income tax that went as high as 90% for many years after World War Two?

The entire country prospered as never before, but, “Then Came the Revolution”, the TRA of 1986 and Reagan. I’m sure you know all about that. You contradict yourself and are not aware of it, we have a need for national tax but don't tax "angrywhitemale"......What? Taxes have never been lower and we face a budget and deficit that must be dealt with but you wouldn't care for those issues. You know the future?

I have to leave make some money and this income will be taxed. Should I start whining now?

Hey angrywhitemale -

I quickly re-read my post and found an error in word and one in tense, rational for the country or something along those lines where I should have used "rationale". You have a number of redundancies as "you yourself". I like grammar but detest self styled grammarians on these websites if one considers that we are not writing for Pulitzers nor for pay. Most of us have little time to proof read every single word and sentence. I write and if time permits quickly proof read and then I am gone. I almost always come back and can find an error. I do not have the time to scrutinize any post for grammar, its the content that interests me not a dangling participle. Those that don't want to address the issues always, and I do mean always deflect and will use grammar, among other means, as their tool of avoidance.

Persevere,

Actually I find the fact that I said nothing to this person at the rally but yet they were somehow able to label me without knowing anything about me to be quite funny. Much like you making your inferences about me without knowing anything about me. I would suppose that you get a thrill out of dressing down big guys named "Tiny" and bald guys named "Curly" also. The screen name does not give me any more, or any less right to voice my opinions, that I attribute to the Constitution. As far as the connotations and denotations that are linked to this name they make no difference to me, they do however seem to inflame self righteous blowhards on the internet. I always seem to have one person take issue with the name and extrapolate out what kind of person they think I am. They seem to think they are able to use it as a tool to beat me up with when in fact all they end up doing is making themselves look like a fool.

As for the income tax issue, your rant was interesting, not pertinent, but interesting none the same. The fact that I make a solid living and work hard for my money and find the wasteful spending being exibited in this country allow me to gripe all I wish. The fact that you seem to subscribe to the "death and taxes" mentality is your issue, not mine. If I think something is unfair I say so. If I do not like how the tax money is being spent I voice my opinion, regardless of whether or not it sets off some dolt on some self appointed duty to tell others that they should be happy with their taxes and thankful for what they have to pay. I would equate that logic the same as Biden stating that we should be thankful and happy about higher taxes and that paying them is the "patriotic" thing to do. If you receive a bill from a service agent and it is higher than you think it should be do you simply pay it or do you take issue with it? Or do you pay it and tell others that take issue with it to stop whining like babies?

If you didn’t know we have a progressive tax and the same amount is taken out of mine and all the other tax payers but you want to use race as a calling card and whine as a baby as though you are being singled out.

Lastly, a progressive tax does NOT mean that the same is being taken out of my check as someone others. A flat tax with a fixed percentage would allow that statement to be true. If a progressive tax allowed the same amount to be taken from each person you would not have tax brackets and different tax rates.

But hey, I don't think I am coming off as angry but if you think so, so be it. I am not the one going on the offensive and attacking others and calling names like "white trash", I leave that to others that think so highly of themselves and their sisters. It is those kind of people that have the entitlement attitude to tell others that they should be happy and thankful for what they have and to stop whining like babies.

Taxes have never been lower and we face a budget and deficit that must be dealt with but you wouldn't care for those issues.

Actually I do care about those issues. I however do not see the need to raise taxes, I see the need to lower our expenses. When a person does not live within their means should they ask for a raise or reign in their spending?

I have to leave make some money and this income will be taxed. Should I start whining now?

If you are happy with your taxes that you pay, enjoy. But for those of us that are tired of the high taxes regardless of who put them into place, and yes I consider them high for the type of return that I get for my money, we are allowed to gripe all we wish.

Furthermore, I could care less if you pay for your private health insurance or not, I have my mine and could give a squat if you have health insurance or not or if your wife and kids have to work or if they have health insurance. Not my problem. Your life situation is of no concern to me not in the least. I couldn't care if you and your family go homeless, you see its not my problem, its yours not mine. If so you probably made some poor choices, get it?

Keep working and paying taxes when you get to my age if you invested wisely you can sit back and watch the likes of yourself whine and bark of how hard you work then you can say as I have 'I made it", and I could give a squat if you do or not.

You say you are a Vietname vet, who cares? You say you are retired, who gives a squat? You say you live in paradise, who gives a crap? you say "made it", unimportant. You make may statements that are truly tellin about the kind of person you are, and yet somehow you feel that you are superior to others? You tell someone that you could not care less if their family goes homeless and yet you somehow seem to think that I am the "white trash"?

Try again ... your funny.

WhiteAngrymale –

What is wrong with your wussy ass, first you attribute your obnoxious and embarrassing screen name to have been “given” as though it is a present from some “Now Gang/Code Pink beast”, what the hell is that? Now you contradict yourself and say “person at the rally but yet they were somehow able to label me without knowing anything about me to be quite funny. Much like you making your inferences about me without knowing anything about me”. Well which is it? Which of these people "gave" you this name? Maybe your mere presence invites ridicule and vomit. What kind of wuss just takes an offensive race laced screen name as you have described such and runs with it? What manner of human beings do you associate yourself with? This portrayal is surreal and reeks of duplicity. They ‘gave” me this name, what a wuss…..why not give it back, duh? What compels you to use it?

Your suppositions are so effeminate they make me want to go running into the night, such as: Lets look at some of the more insane statements:

“Knuckledraggin angry white male was bestowed upon me” bestowed upon you? As a crown?

“Someone that you and your sister undoubtedly are able to relate to.” How do you figure that? I know we would not associate with your type, “Code” and the “rally group”.

“I also understand how persons like yourself work. You are unable to answer the most simple of questions as to why others that choose to be a burden on society have more of a right to my paycheck vs those of us that have earned it” My work you know nothing of and I dare any objective reader to say this sentence makes any sense. I asked you to name these people, did you forget? I don’t know whom in heavens name you are referring to. Again, what others are you referring to? What burdens? Just a little specificity would help.

‘I personally do not care if you are white, black, red, yellow, or whatever you certainly made that an issue, a persons race must be rather important to you’. Yes I don’t like white trash, black, brown and yellow trash, trash is trash to me.

“I would suppose that you get a thrill out of dressing down big guys…” What are you talking about? More wild suppositions, figments of a neurotic mind at work.

“The screen name does not give me any more, or any less right to voice my opinions I always seem to have one person take issue with the name and extrapolate out what kind of person they think I am.” Now what would you expect? How stupid can you get? Are you really that dense?

“The fact that you seem to subscribe to the "death and taxes" mentality is your issue” What is that mentality? I don’t have any idea of what you are referring to, what issue?

“Lastly, a progressive tax does NOT mean that the same is being taken out of my check as someone others” (some others). I don’t think you understand the taxable income brackets and how you are taxed if your taxable income falls into specific brackets. It’s the same for everyone in such bracket. How are you being taxed more? Another unaccredited feeling of entitlement and sense of being wronged you think you are taxed higher and by a black man as president ha ha hee hee must make you angry. Come on admit it, just a little angry?

“But for those of us that are tired of the high taxes regardless of who put them into place, and yes I consider them high for the type of return that I get for my money, we are allowed to gripe all we wish”. Whine all you like, the return for “my money” oh please, more unaccredited sense of entitlement and being singled out. I would be angry if I felt as such. But, you say you are not angry, a fallacious transparent childish fish tale.

“You say you are a Vietname (its Vietnam) vet, who cares? You say you are retired, who gives a squat? You say you live in paradise, who gives a crap? you say "made it", unimportant. You make may (my) statements that are truly tellin (telling) about the kind of person you are, and yet somehow you feel that you are superior to others? This sentence is muddy, confused and almost impossible to make any sense of; Yes I do feel superior to you and others of your ilk

“You tell someone that you could not care less if their family goes homeless and yet you somehow seem to think that I am "white trash". Yes I do think you are white trash and give us white people a bad name, so to speak. My response to 2005fxdwgi was a parody of his post. If you would take the time and use the art of juxtaposition you would see I use many of the same phrasing, words, tone and attitude to mimic said poster. You do know how to use the writer’s technique of parody? I doubt it nor do you recognize when it is being employed.

Your flimsy suppositions and avoidance of my questions makes it abundantly clear that I am dealing with a neurotic closet racist hiding behind all of these effeminate statements. I would bet you never have served our country in arms, right? Don't lie.............

Come down to the Legion Hall and say “who cares” if anyone is a vet and see how fast you get your ass kicked. I am done with you “AngryWhiteMaletrash” I only feel contempt for a pathetic little wimp like you, whining, whining with all that anger to deal with. Pathetic………..

PS: I made a few corrections in parenthesis there are more but lets be done with you.

Final Post: This has been an exercise in futility but amusing nonetheless.........Bye

Well said, personally I am really PO'd at the entire system which seems oblivious to the needs of the real people. Are the politicians not the one's who dictate minimum wage? Then surely they can figure out what is and what is not affordable!

Exactly, and ole Joe uses his healthcare from his time in state office and has the federal system available to him. Let the politicians pay the entire cost of their insurance and let every American buy into their insurance at their rates. The one with no pre existing conditions. United States of Corporate America..

The nice thing about health care is that it will drop pre-existing conditions. So if you're over 50 you'll be able to get insurance.

If you are still wanting it to be more affordable yet, then we should have included a public option. Yes, Republicans, Americans wanted it and you didn't listen.

Toby - you've got a very good point. Why not ask Joe L. to calculate a budget for three people (man, woman, and child) making federal minimum wage. Housing, food, clothing, tranportation, and the new medical insurance premimum with enough left for deductible/copay. I personally would like to see the figures he comes up with. I serious here people! Joe, show me the numbers!

ERIC-------- You don't ever quit do you? Republicans didn't listen, yes they did, we told them we didn't want op pay for insurance for the parasites/parasite enablers, they listened.

Every one who is not to lazy or doesn't really want to know can google the European plans, everyone ended up in the hole.

Same old crap from you parasites/ parasite enablers.

Face it ERIC you folks are without worth, merit or value, why would we want to pay for your insurance?

Being born entitles you to oxygen, the rest of it, someone has to pay for.

It's true that people with pre-existing conditions will be able to get insurance under the new health plan, but what's new about that? For a price, anyone, anywhere, can get great health coverage.

Guess Eric missed the Vine about the pre-existing Health care that is coming up that most of the people posting were amazed at the amount they were being asked to pay to get Insurance.

Oh since they were able to pass HC without the Republicans why would they have been the decider to not include the Public Option/seems to me the POTUS was the one that put the stop to the Public Option

It's also true that your kids as old as 26 years could always have health insurance, all they needed to do was buy it. I wonder how long it will be before it will be mandatory for parents to cover their "kids". I'll bet the cost of covering the kids is going to more than most parents want to spend on their grown up "kids".

This Bill should anger everyone on both side of the issue. If it was so good for the people of this country, the Insurance Industry, the AMA and the big Pharmaceutical Companies would have taken out full page ads in the newspaper and bought time on TV and Radio to tell us how bad the bill was. They were quiet because they know that it will soon be business as usual. There was NO REAL REFORM!!!! For a real change, Vote out all incumbents in 2010.........That is a change I can believe in.

Up Uranus –

The new Federal minimum wage has been raised to $7.25 per hour according to my research. $10 per hour is a step up. $7.25 peer a 40-hour week for 48 weeks is $13,920. If you consider a FICA of 7.5% and other state taxes such as State Disability Tax and other mandatory taxes I estimate a 90% take home pay. 90% of comes out to $12,528 income per year. Now………

An average apartment in an area of Los Angeles where you don’t have gang members as neighbors and can live in minimal safety runs about $900 to $1,100 (one bedroom) this is to live just a step above doghouse level. Lets split the difference and say $1,000 a month, this does not include food, and utilities or fuel and insurance for your auto should you own an automobile. You can add the numerous costs of life and see what the picture looks like.

Lets wrap it up $1,000 rent per month for twelve months is $12,000 a difference from a $12,528 take home pay of $528 dollars. Can a person live on $528? Wait I forgot to mention utilities oh what the heck you can do the rest of the numbers yourself. What about out of pocket health care costs?

Was there a recent book with the title “Savage Nation”? Does the word appropriate fit?

“No Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." - Leviathan by Hobbes

I would only add mercifully short……………..

PS: California is seriously considering reducing the hourly wage (to $7.25) for something like six months because of our budget deficit for state workers and then making up the loss of pay down the road when the state is economically stable (paying out the difference). If things were not bad enough to drive most folks insane as we watch millions being paid in “bonus” money. Like the bonus pay for the top CEOs of the health industry, makes one want to holler.

Have a nice day……………………

Who the hell in their right mind would live in California if they were only making minimum wage? The only ones that should would be someones dependent, otherwise get the hell out.

Absolutely. Do you realize that we have, by far, the most expensive health care system in the world, and we're not even outperforming other democratic countries that spend a fraction of what we spend?

France pays over 20% less than the USA, per capita, for health care. And yet, they have 37 doctors per 10,000 citizens (compared to only 24 in the USA). And lower infant mortality rates. And they don't have 44,000 families going bankrupt every year with medical bills being the largest source of debt.

We are the only wealthy democracy without a universal public health insurance program, and we also have the most expensive system in the world, and the worst access to insurance coverage, more medical bankruptcies, and poorer outcomes than any democratic country on Earth.

So yes, what we need is a universal, public health care plan. The law passed earlier this year is a step in the right direction.

If your insurance bill has already gone up 120.00 a month, then it's not the government that is screwing you...

Private health insurance only works if you are healthy, or if you are lucky enough to be in a large pool of employees. I'm not an advocate for government run insurance, but the government has to regulate it. The private insurance companies are in the business to make money, not to make sure that people are actually being cared for in times of illness. In fact most companies will fight a large bill in the hopes that the patient will give up or die.

exactly right, kidrambler. What I think often gets missed in the folly of having a for-profit health insurance system is that what should be the most important goal in a health care system is also the worst thing for profits:

helping sick people get care.

If you're an insurer, the worst thing you can have is a sick or injured person on your policy who needs health care. Insurers will ALWAYS have a huge financial incentive to do whatever they can to find ways to provide less coverage to fewer sick people.

Except the tax rate of France is crushing to the population. Most French people have alternative insurance as well. Our current proposed plan will do the same to the U.S.

The health care reform was illconcieved and needs quite a bit of work. As it stands today it does not move us closer to the intention nor what the American people need.

@ Jersey mom: Social Security is not broke, it was designed to handle the baby boomers before going back to the pay-as-you-go system it was decades ago. Furthermore, your health care premium is not going up to pay for PPACA; it's going up, as it does every year, to ensure the insurer's profits. As for what the government can run well, do you know that Medicare's administrative costs are only about 3 percent, whereas a for-profit health insurer's administrative costs are at least 20 percent?

Just the Facts: "Medicare's administrative costs are only about 3 percent".

I am not for administrative costs. However, that is possibly why there is so much Medicare FRAUD, and that costs the patients and the program big money.

I don't know what the fraud rate is with for-profit health insurers, but I would bet not what it is with Medicare.

Medicare needs more policing. It is cheaper to pay 1,000 workers 40-60K per year trained to monitor claims and fraud, than to pay out billions to cheaters and fake clinics and fake physicians.

Oh, and I am for NATIONAL not-for-profit health care for all, like Medicare. Just not run like a free-for-all, meaning fraudsters and illegals.

CARL---------- You lie, French citizens pay 68% in income taxes and VAT, then, they have to buy a private policy to have 100% coverage.

France announced last year that the system was 12 billion in the hole and that the system was not sustainable and that they would reduce services.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are ignorant and not just lying.

Carl W, you crazy and don't know what you are talking about. I lived in Europe for 3 years and my wife is French. The system there is extremely broke, they pay over 25% of their income in taxes to support health care and social service projects and are actually rolling back to the same system we once had of independent care. You must have been watching the Michael Moore's SICKO movie which is really wrong. The system in the united states is far better and can see a doctor quicker with better equipment then you can in France or Germany. I was told I had to wait 6 months for a doctor to look at my back when I had 2 herniated disks in my lower back and just gave meds for the mean time. State side you are seeing a can see a specialist worse case within a week. The media makes the systems overseas look so good but my wife and I will tell you its not. Granted I agree there are some issues with our system that does need reform but not this national health care. I have coverage that includes in my coverage any and all preexisting conditions as part of services they pay for. I had to have surgery for a pre existing condition and covered 100% of it with no issues. I love my service provider and to see that I now have to pay for the fcukers who don't know how to budget their expenses. It is extremely unsetting to see so many people that want something for nothing these days. You have to work for the American dream, its not given to you.

What company will sell insurance covering pre-existing conditions? And how much does it cost you?

Is it constitutional to legally require a hospital to treat somebody? yes or no.

I hope the Republicans don't get their hands on health care, or it'll get worse. The old boys club with make sure to line their pockets first.

Because if you answer "no", then you have to accept uninsured/underinsured Americans dying outside the emergency room because they don't have coverage to pay for their treatment. Welcome to the third world.

But if you say "yes", then you have a massive unfunded mandate on your hands. You want to require hospitals to save people's lives, even if it costs a lot to treat them, but you can't require people to buy coverage to pay for their treatment.

This is the question conservatives/teabaggers refuse to answer: "Who should pay the huge medical costs for the working poor uninsured/underinsured?"

The hospital has to get the money from somewhere. And all patients cannot reasonably be expected to have tens of thousands of dollars laying around for serious illnesses and injuries that require many many doctor-hours of care. You can bankrupt people for getting sick (and the USA leads all developed democracies in medical bankruptcies), but the hospital still has to recover the costs.

Either we require everybody to buy insurance, the same way we require everybody to pay for police protection, fire protection, military protection, etc (funny how conservatives never complain about those universal, socialist, life-saving government programs), OR, we take the "it's a free country" approach: you decide whether to buy insurance, and a hospital decides whether to treat you based on if you have money/coverage to pay for your treatment.

which is it?

Either we require everybody to buy insurance, the same way we require everybody to pay for police protection, fire protection, military protection, etc

Here's your problem. Not everyone pays for these protections. If I were not married, I could work at Walmart, and, claiming my four children, would qualify for earned income credit. Thus, I would get back all that I paid into the system, plus some more. Therefore, I am benefitting from military protection without paying for it.

Offering subsidies for insurance is the same thing---getting services that are you do not contribute towards.

O.K. Carl W,I like the black or white mentality,no gray area, your right can't have it both ways,so I want my healthcare paid for out of my Taxes,Just like the Police and Fire departments,not out of my paycheck,the cost to me would be less, and that way it's legal for them to tell me I have to have healthcare,maybe they could take a paycut,{like so many have} and quit spending money like a bunch of kids, who just won the lottery,boy if there was a such thing as "blue collar mentality"left in this country,thing's would sure be rolling differently. lol,

CARL--------- Tired of hearing it from you and the parasites/parasite enablers.

The laws requiring hospitals to treat anyone free are the resaon for the cost of medical care in this country.

If you want to pay for it, feel free, we are sick and tired of leeches/leech enablers trying to hang it on us.

Carl,

I worked in health insurance for 25 years, part of that time in the statistical/actuarial department (the one that determines rates). The rating formula had a component called "bad debt and free service" which passed the cost of uninsured people who go to the emergency room and get treated along to the people who have insurance (something like "uninsured motorist " coverage in car insurance) . In the 1980's when nearly everyone had coverage and many had double coverage, it was about 3 percent of the rate. If you CHOOSE not to buy health insurance, you are gambling with other people's health insurance premiums.

Carl W,

This is the question conservatives/teabaggers refuse to answer: "Who should pay the huge medical costs for the working poor uninsured/underinsured?"

Nobody is suppose to pay for them. Health care is provided to everybody in the country. What dumb asses like you don't realize is that some of us pay for insurance to cover cost if we ever need it vice paying up front. They are not denied what so ever. Its is their own responsibility to buy insurance, not the rest of tax payers. The issue is that these poor people can afford it but don't want to sacrifice their lifestyle to pay for it. For a smoker if you quit you have more then enough money a moth to pay for a middle tier plan. Quit drinking, stop eating out and blowing money on crap you don't need. If you still cant afford it then guess what.... Odds are then you are qualified for state aid and coverage that already exists. :,( that was a tear because those like you don't understand this and most likely never will.

Actually they are denied GimDan, many people are denied by their insurance for claims. This is a known fact and it just for common items like a certain medication a doctor prescribes. The insurance company will literally force you to take the cheaper one unless there is prevailing reason why.

Because it cost more. What is wrong with a cheaper med if the same ingredients and quantity? Got a buddy that a pharmacist and 9 time out 10 the generics are as good as the name brand. You pay for the name Nav. We are lucky to have the medical choose that we do in this country. Live over seas and you will see they do not have the same access as do we. Here is what you see in the news over seas all the time in the system you @!$%#s are trying force us into. You don't see the big picture and often never do.

Thousands of kidney cancer patients are likely to lose out on life-prolonging drugs.
The NHS rationing body, NICE, has confirmed a ban on three out of four new treatments.

It has reversed its position on just one, Sutent, which will now be allowed for patients with advanced cancer. But campaigners who fought NICE's original blanket ban said this was not enough. They said some patients with heart problems cannot tolerate Sutent.

Kate Spall, head of the Pamela Northcott Fund campaign group, said the ruling meant that fewer than half of newly diagnosed patients would be eligible for therapy.

She added: 'Families will be denied time together and doctors will be unable to give patients the best treatment.'

Campaigners are angry that NICE appears to have ignored new official guidelines widening access to life-prolonging drugs.

Sutent, also known as sunitinib, can double the life expectancy of patients, to 28 months, compared with standard interferon treatment. It costs around £24,000 a year.

The rejected drugs - bevacizumab (Avastin), sorafenib (Nexavar) and temsirolimus (Torisel) - have similar costs and are used in other countries.

Nicole Farmer, of Bayer Schering Pharma Oncology, which makes Nexavar, said: 'This shows why the UK sits 16 out of 18 EU countries with regard to cancer outcomes'.

Dr Thomas Powles, Clinical Senior Lecturer, at Barts and The London NHS Trust, said the 'one size fits all' policy would disadvantage many of the 7,000 patients diagnosed each year with kidney cancer.

He said: 'This one dimensional approach will leave some patients without potentially beneficial treatments, indeed some patients will not be eligible for any effective treatments whatsoever.'

Stella Pendleton, executive director of the Rarer Cancers Forum, said: 'This decision contradicts the spirit of the recommendations made by Professor Mike Richards on improving access to medicines for NHS patients, and highlights flaws in the current system for appraising drugs.

'We call on Nice to reverse this decision.'

The govenement is always looking for way to cut spending and cost so what makes you think health care is any different.

Here is another one for you on national health care in regards to meds....

Lung patients 'condemned to death as NHS withdraws
their too expensive drugs'

Hundreds of patients with a rare lung disease will be sentenced to death by plans to stop doctors prescribing a range of drugs on the NHS, it was claimed last night.

Campaigners have condemned proposals by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence to withdraw the drugs because they are too expensive.

The condition, pulmonary hypertension, affects an estimated 4,000 people in the UK.

Only a quarter of these need the most expensive level of treatment.

Yet the plans by NICE, the Government's drug rationing body, mean no life-extending therapies will be available to new patients because the cost of the most expensive exceeds its threshold of £30,000 per head.

Only the cheapest drug used to combat the condition will remain available for patients.

The impotence drug Viagra is valuable in combating pulmonary hypertension's symptoms of breathlessness but sufferers say it will not prevent the heart failure the disease can induce.

Lung specialists currently combine it with inhaled or infused drugs such as prostacyclins for the most seriously affected, which can add £40,000 a year to the £12,000 cost.

Another group of drugs, endothelin receptor antagonists, are also under threat.

The cost of the most expensive treatments is on a par with approved HIV treatments or keeping one criminal in prison for a year.

The final decision, to be taken in July, will apply to England but doctors believe Scotland will follow suit.

Patients with pulmonary hypertension are usually diagnosed in their 40s and 50s and the time from diagnosis to death is only 30 months without effective treatment.

The disease causes blood pressure in the pulmonary artery to rise. Those who go downhill need hospital care - with a lung transplant the only other option.

Professor Andrew Peacock, one of the world's leading experts on the condition at the Western Infirmary, Glasgow, said: "One of the drugs we routinely use for the very sickest of the sick patients, prostacyclin, we're not going to be able to use at all.

"We're going to have to say to people, 'Sorry, no treatment. You're just going to have to have palliative care and you're going to die basically'."

Anna Baker, 25, a mother, from Ashby de la Zouch in Leicestershire, was diagnosed with pulmonary hypertension just over a year ago.

"This medication has given me my life back," she said. "I have to take the drug via a small pump 24 hours a day. I still get tired and have to limit what I do, but I have the confidence to do normal everyday things that just weren't possible last year."

As an existing patient, Mrs Baker will continue to get the expensive drugs prescribed on the NHS.

But she said: "I think it's outrageous that people with pulmonary hypertension in future might be denied the treatment."

NICE said its appraisal recommendations are preliminary and "may change after consultation".

You are wrong, under the present system if you dont have a job then you qualify for Medicaid, which is free to those who are unemployed. I love the spin this journalist put on it with regards to the lady photed having three part time jobs and yet she has no insurance. Dont fear miss Odumbocare is here to help you in 2014, so dont get sick before that.

You are wrond - you do not qualify for Medicaid if you are single, 40 years old, no dependents.

To USA is great: you don't just get Medicaid.

If you are legal, you have to be at poverty level or below for Medicaid. Or a substance abuser and alcohol abuser, which by the way is a substance same as heroin. Mental health units in not-for-profit hospitals have uninsured addicted frequent fliers who are staples at the units. And the common practice is to apply to Medicaid for reimbursement, and to put these folks on Medicaid for the future.

Oh wait, no, for illegals it is FREE. Here is how it works. Someone who works here illegally will come in with a crushed leg, spend several days in a medical unit. When the social workers try to get their social and income history, they have no address and no job, and don't speak English. Yet they look well fed.

The hospital has a budget for charity care, but it comes from our taxes. If the budget dries up, the hospital eats the costs and so do we all who pay taxes. Health coverage premiums go up for employers, and therefore, the employees. Yes, the hospital needs to and should be paid somehow. Or it would not exist. I've translated for such people and when they are speaking their native language to the translator they relax, and guess what, they feel that they are OWED this free care. I've actually lost my cool with some of them, and told them off by telling them the facts. I'm glad they don't know that they could have cost me my job for that because they are afraid to make waves. In the end I refused to be a translator.

If anyone tries to go after these illegals for payment, or they fear that will happen, they will leave and go back to their native country to avoid payment. Only to return a year or two later. And these are people from Europe!

yes my husband is unemployed,after 38yrs of work,ret army...we have no health care for the first time in our adult working lifes...yes we both need to see a doctor,but no money...No government help out there for us...you have to be on welfare to get help,we dont want walfare.we want jobs...I guess we will die looking for jobs,here in Maryland...companys are to scared to hire now,things just keep getting worse for them everyday with this government,more taxes,more regs,the prices of health care going up..they cant make a profit here anymore,all must go over seas....nobody in this government cares,busy giving our money to aid other countries..if another country has a flood we will be there to rebuild them save them,whatever it takes,but no help for us...If anybody out there can really help I wish they would...Im so sick of the names,Bush,Clinton,Bush,Obama and you know Clinton is gonna run again to finish what is going on,it never ends....Thank mr.Clinton for N.F.T.A, and that work to warfare is really working.The locked box social security,lie after lie...mr Bush,we love the oil wars...

And oh, telling administration about such cases is useless. Their hands are tied, and the employee is viewed as a trouble maker.

Nope you're wrong about how conservatives view people but then how would you know. Most conservatives believe the HC system needs to be fixed, but can you explain to me what this law does to fix the broken system? Most states are going broke and a big reason for it is Medicaid. Please explain how putting 30 million more people on a broken system fixes anything? Your left wing talking points and name calling mean nothing w/o a meaningful debate.

Wilfred

I call BS on your supposed conversations with conservatives. I am conservative and own a business and talk to other conservatives all the time. I don't know anybody that doesn't want to see some sort of health care reform. What our current administration is giving us is a terrible reform. It doesn't reform anything. All it does is shift the cost of the current system. None of theses articles that are coming out about how wonderful life is going to be in 2014 mention the true costs to everyone of us. That lady working three jobs is doing what she wants to do with her life. She will find out that after all the reform measures are implemented she probably will have to go get a fourth job.

The county I live in has stated that their cost for the taxes on the so-called "cadillac plans" will run about $20 million a year after 2014. Where is that money going to come from? More taxes from everyone in the county to pay for a few county workers? I live in a very liberal county. I just wish that liberals would open their eyes and see what their policies are doing to this country.

JH - you are correct that it shifts the cost. Just like 401Ks freed employers from providing defined pension plans, the insurance system as it stands now is not affordable, who can afford $600+ per person per month, even in a family of 2?

And the end result will be -- same as with defined pension plans. Employer health care coverage will disappear and we will be left to our own devices like we are with surviving when we are old.

The only affordable way is Medicare-like insurance, paid for with higher taxes. Sorry, but that is true, true, true. VAT is the most equitable way. I would be glad to pay higher sales taxes, if only I didn't have to pay for the brats' next door school education, such as swimming and flute lessons, and the schools' sports programs, with exorbitant school taxes on my little house, and no kids in the school system ever.

Ok, folks, tell me what kind of "health care system" you want to see. Is it going to be run by the for-profit, "free market" private insurance companies who do it now? Tell us how you would provide some safety net for the woman in this story and for hundreds of thousands of others who cannot get insurance on the "free market." And, please, spare us the bilge about health savings accounts. They are no help to this woman or others who cannot afford to fund them and certainly no help to those who have been denied insurance by the private sector. And since you want to end Medicare and Medicaid, what about the elderly who absolutely are locked out of the private insurance market due to multiple pre-existing conditions?

You can give us a thousand reasons why the current system and recently passed legislation is wrong. All I'm asking is how you would do it better, cheaper and more efficiently.

Hint: Don't give us the horsehockey about buying insurance across state lines. All health insurance in this country is controlled by about seven "master" companies. Every smaller insurance company, PPO, etc. is tied into one of those companies. The health insurance industry is exempt from federal antitrust laws. They are free to collude, set prices, allocate market share--and they do.

In addition, illegals spend enormous amounts of money here. The VAT tax that they would be forced to pay would help offset some of the costs of their "free to them" care.

Also, wiring money over the border needs to be controlled tightly. Right now a legal person can set up an account in their own name to be used by the illegal. Then the ILLEGAL will use that account to send money to their Country, no taxes paid. It takes only one minute after the account is set up. This can be done in your local supermarket, drug store, or travel agency. Or on-line.

bedebe - No money should be allowed to be sent out of this country until it has been taxed.

Wilfred - How about opening up the health care industry to competitive biddding on care? We should be able to call around to different hospitals and get bids on the care we need. There are so many hidden costs that it is nearly impossible to know what a procedure is going to cost until it is done and after that point you are stuck with the bill. I had a hernia repair recently that the hospital billed my insurance company over $8,000.00. When I called the accounting office at the hospital to pay my $850.00 share I asked if my statement was correct about my insurance company taking a $6,000.00 deduction. They informed me that yes, they only collected about $2,000.00 total for the whole thing. I asked if I could have called them and got the procedure for $2,000.00 if I didn't have insurance and they said NO. We need a much better system when it is our money. Government controlling this is not the best way to go.

JH-479998,

The dirty little secret in health care is that requiring all providers of medical care services and insurers adopt standardized diagnostic codes and costs for medical procedures would dramatically lower health care costs. It will never be done because providers and insurers have spent huge sums lobbying against it. One way that insurers and providers profit is by each having their own diagnostic codes and cost structures, which creates confusion and therefore more profit. It's almost impossible to call around and get an apples to apples comparison of costs for medical procedures.

People were against the public option for the same reason they were against the bill that passed. It is not a federal responsibility to provide health insurance or even access to insurance. It has yet to be decided if the federal government can coerce commerce. I know that they can regulate interstate commerce but there is nothing that states that they can coerce commerce.

Yes, I am aware of that argument. Our AG Rob McKenna is one of those who is currently enjoined in a suit against the Federal Government for that exact reason.

You can say that it's not a responsibility for the government to provide health care, however if you look at it as an issue in the national interest, you might see it another way. Health care costs are the #1 route to personal bankruptcy in the United States.

The insurance companies, big pharma and others have built an institutional machine that both squeezes small business (the majority employer in the US) and the policy holders themselves - making them very, very, VERY profitable as a result.

Having a healthy citizenry is in the national interest - and would stabilize a large number of our domestic problems - so you have to have some body that has this as their primary mission. To maintain such a mission you -cannot- have a body which has as a conflict of interest in the issue - such as making a profit - lest it impact their decision making over health vs. profit.

The insurance companies and others poisoned the well on this issue - and pumped out so many lies to the elderly and others that few are sure which end is up. As a result, the policy that was formulated was watered down and compromised - much of the same is happening now to the financial "reform" bill...

Most often, those who are opposed to such an option are either the wealthy (or those with financial interests in killing the bill) or (more often) the elderly who are on Medicare. If the effort was termed an "expansion of Medicare" there probably would have been harder to stop.

What is interesting is what if you ask those who decry government assistance - "Do you take SSI and Medicare payments?" - or - ask if they have a financial interest in these issues - and they say yes to either - then you suggest they stop accepting (or divest from) the very thing that they say they are against - you uncover the real hypocrisy of the issue.

I know that the country cannot afford much of what is happening now - but if you look at the future projections of health care and SSI costs into the next thirty years, a train wreck is coming - the US will be (if it is not already) insolvent. The greatest portion of our debt is tied to health care. Something has to be done to abate this mounting nightmare before it's too late.

You read my mind. I find it odd that at 24 years old, she cannot figure out to buy insurance herself, instead of depending on your employer for it. I did that when I was in college it was back then around $60 a month. Of course I didn't have cable, cell phones, a home computer, etc...etc...etc...

Exactly Karen...until she ACTUALLY needs the coverage! As soon as she gets really sick the insurance company will drop her. It's not that it's not available, the problem is that it (the system) doesn't work!

Quit letting the facts get in the way of that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they spend our money to feign compassion for the "unfortunates and disenfranchised". Never mind this bill does nothing to curtail costs, that doesn't matter. What matters is our tax money will continue to be wasted on the rampant fraud and abuse that already plagues this broken system.

kidrambler---this article was not about her being dropped from insurance. It is about her not acquiring it in the first place. The sob story she is selling is that she can't get insurance and that is a lie.

Yes and soon she'll be fined for not having it. Let's see how much the uninsured embrace the system once that process gets started. Let's not even consider the added costs to the IRS in having to monitor all of these potential criminals. That cost was not added into the bill like so many others so as to keep it artificially deflated.

Same as the dr. fix bill costs were not included into the bill to keep it out of the red by the CBO scoring

Not necessarily so - what about the $5,000 deductible. It takes one time and you are broke. I know because it happened to me and I am paying $700 a month for insurance because I am diabetic. I also have $20,000 in medical bills which includes the $5,000 deductible.

OMG727, karen's example is a middle of the road number for cost. I found for the zipcode the subject of the article lives in plans ranging from $53.48 a month with a $10K deductible through several plans around $75/month with $2600 deductible and 20% copays all the way up to $196/month with $1000 deductible and no copays. and ending with a $300/month plan with no deductible and no copay. There are plenty of websites that let you compare rates for almost every company licensed in your zipcode. People might be surprised how affordable it can be.

The trouble is what is more important to some people? Some prefer to spend their money on the latest 4G cellphone etc. It is only as unaffordable as some people want it to be. Whether or not we should be told to buy it is a different topic however.

Most people have a $500 deductible on their auto insurance to repair a car that is worth maybe $10,000.

What is so alarming about a $5,000 deductible on a $200,000 medical bill when you get cancer?

The problem is that MOST Americans are to irresponsible and undisciplined to save money over the years so that they are prepared when do get sick. Most Americans probably haven't bothered to save even $500 for their auto insurance deductible. Let's not even get into the topic of retirement savings.

I could have a real nice boat if I wasn't saving and preparing for my future.

Look up the definition of the word responsibility in the dictionary. If you can't understand it ask a conservative to explain it to you.

They must be breeding---Obama was elected.

Good one Karen!!

Obama being elected was one of the great moments for the country. This will be proven in the future. Republicans are just too stupid to realize that.

comment 12.3 is a coc violation

will it be ignored because the poster is a libral?

i give it 10 to 1 odds of standing

NAV---------- The inept liar had better hurry, another29 months, he is history,.

Nav-399861,it's a givin repub's are stupid,but it will be proven in the future that Obama being elected was one of the worst thing's that ever happened "TO" America,unless your a Muslim,only time will prove it,Obama Is playing out of the Bush handbook,look at the time line:in Bushes first 18 month's,we had 911,in Obama's:we have the Gulf Oil spill,both are good for "their"Agenda's,more to come, it's just a matter of time,think for yourself,to Hell with the rah team rah stuff already.

Health Insurance is not a right. It is not guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. We needed to do something to fix the system, but rushing something through was not the answer either. I love how you call everybody else idiots, but incorrectly spell words like "they're" and "right" when you have spell check available in the leave a comment box. Only time will tell for Obama, but it doesn't look good so far!

Marriage is neither a right also. So is sending a child to a public education. I am a single. Why should I be paying for all your rats since you can't educate them yourselves.

What are you talking, because of high insurance costs already most jobs are being moved to contractor and part-time. Where have you been, tea baggin.

Nav Rape jokes are not funny

KYLOMG

You are already raping the United States and its citizens with your right wing values.

personal attacks are not allowed someone needs to ban you allready

How much influence do you think the insurance companies have over health care costs Cindy? I'll tell you it's not much. What drives up health care costs is everyone wants the best of everything. You know what else Cindy, Medicaid recipients get the best of everything so as not to discriminate against the poor. Furthermore since they don't pay for it they don't care how much they abuse the services. Fact Cindy, the ER's are utilized as a primary place of service not be the uninsured, but by people on Medicaid by a margin of 5 to 1!! Do you think that's fair? If I use the ER I have to pay a $50 copay, but if I'm on medicaid it's free. So you think putting millions of more people on this horrible system is reform? It has nothing to do with caring, it's called fiscal responsibility and the coffers are running dry!

I don't care about my fellow man/woman, I expect them to pay for what they want, just like I do.

Questions?

Health insurers post record profits:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699

Anybody get a 56 percent raise last year?

The fairy tale is that for profit insurers have an incentive to operate more efficiently because they need to turn a profit. The nature of health insurance (I worked in the industry for more than 20 years) is that a small proportion of the insured population accounts for the bulk of the claims expense, and claims expense accounts for the bulk of the total cost. The for-profits figured out long ago that if they can deny coverage to people who are (or are likely to become) seriously ill, or deny payment once the claim comes in, they can make a TON of money and undercut the rates of any competitor who either refuses to, or is prevented from, engaging in these practices.

"Right-Wingers" do care. But the liberal definition of compassion is caring at other peoples expense

Jeff Franjevic, well that sucks you have that view. Its close but not quite. Nobody is denying services to anybody. You are simply given a bill afterward rather then the insurance company picking up that tab. Just like auto insurance. So as a "tea-bagger" I gladly oppose spending the money I bleed and sweet for to pay for some other persons benefit when they could be doing it their self. I am ex army and if you are able then you should be working to get you @!$%# done. If you are not then you get support however those who want are not in real need.

Great comment Jeff, I agree all the way.

yep

Jeff,I disagree,I don't want a handup or handout,guess I watched too many John Wayne Movie's,but healthcare is for "pussie's"die when it's your time is my motto,I had it all worked out: I made enought to pay for my house/electric/gas/water bill's and food,I could live til I got sick and died,but NOOO,these "i know better than you a-holes"are going to insist I pay for healthcare,there goes the house payment,I guess I should be Happy?oh yea,now I understand,they want me to be a heathy-homeless guy.

they get from the corporate care they get from their company while being so ignorant that they don't realize they would have a bigger paycheck without it?

Why would I get a bigger paycheck? Are you implying the money saved by my employer would "trickle down" to me in the form of a larger paycheck???? Wow---what a novel idea. How about lowering taxes on my employer and the savings will "trickle down" to me in the form of a larger paycheck? More money for me to spend on items in stores that would then encourage economic growth. Nah---forget about it. Dems don't believe in "trickle down" economics. They only advocate for "trickle up" poverty

And the public is so ignorant that they believe there health care is the best in the world because stupid doctors, often getting a kickback, order unnecessary tests on expensive gear. We don't have the "best healthcare" we have the "most expensive."

Can you think of another reason they maybe inclined to order unnecessary tests? Do you think it maybe because they may get sued if they don't? Can you show me in the HC reform bill where it addresses frivolous lawsuits which in turn would help bring down HC costs? There are so many out there like you to who are so easily led and swayed it's really scary.

There have been quite a few articles about how doctors have ordered unnecessary tests especially MRIs. I'll scare you some more: I've taken some alternative medicine courses and have also studied some mainstream medicine (even considered becoming an MD) so I understand the situation a little better than the average individual. I also watched as employees in a company I worked at would go running to the doctor with a "hangnail" just because they had the health care benefits. I've seen hospital bills where a 10 cent bandage was billed for $4. Don't tell me there is no abuse.

Like how Bush gets blamed for Katrina and everything else?

YOU are not going to get it, at all, we will repeal the insurance farc in February of 2013.

Right before we require the inept liar in the white house to go in front of a Grand Jury.

Wonder oif we have ever had a Noebel Peace Prize winner in a federal pen, before?

Hows that hopey changey stuff working.

OKAY, so tell me, why, I should care?

not chickens you need to pay for services you receive with $$

its called a job

Can you give me a link to your stats saying that medical debt is the reason for 60% of bankruptcies? I want to see where it says specifically that the medical bills caused the bankruptcies and it was not caused by lost wages due to lost time at work. Do I believe that 60% of bankruptcies had medical bills--yes. However, I think lost wages had an impact on that bankruptcy status rather than just the medical debt

karen: There isn't a link regarding bankruptcy being caused by medical debt. I agree with you that people who file bankruptcy may have medical debt, but that debt is not the cause of bankruptcy. Most doctors and hopsitals are willing to accept payments over time. Larry is just repeating the lefty talking points.

You mean indentured servitude, Go USA that is not always correct that hospitals accept payment over time.