Mentally ill people were routinely injected with potentially dangerous impurities
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comFDA: Brain lab used impure injections on patients
Seeded on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:32 AM EDT (msnbc.com)
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Is there no area of science, politics or corporate business that remains ethical and competent? Does anyone, who should care about these things, care about these things? Is there anyone a patient can trust these days of those in the medical field,... since we've given up on politics and big business and the Catholic Church!?
I can't speak for politics, corporations, or the Catholic Church. But I CAN speak for science.
It's a rather broad brush to condemn the entire field of science after reading this article. Scientific research has had a profound impact on the life of everyone reading this post. Just a few examples:
There are so many other examples. Airplanes, electricity, diabetes treatments, solar energy - the list is endless.
This story is news precisely because it's unusual. To use this as a reason to dismiss all scientific research is a poor idea, indeed.
Physicist Retired....The flaw in your logic is that this Educational institute while being in part financed by a private company also received FEDERAL funding to play mad scientist with the lives of real people in an effort to teach our next gen Doctors and Scientists.
Truly, we wish for the best and the brightest in our Scientific fields, particularly medicine. Why are we funding institutions to teach how to be a-moral with the lives of real people by bastardizing their bodies with agents beyond the reasonable protocol. Why are we allowing Scientists to break the rules just to fulfill a study that in the future could truly harm the general public because the Scientist felt entitled to lie and falsify results.
The Fed should get their money back. The companies who consigned the studies should sue to get their money back. Anyone guilty of placing a test subject at risk should be jailed and the Imaging center should be closed by Federal Authority.
There should be no tolerance for placing a patient at risk, particularly one from a vulnerable position.
txmom,
I agree that the people in this case should be severely punished. All cases of research that place people at unreasonable risk are simply wrong.
My response was to the posting by BearTruth, concerning this quote:
I think that I clearly pointed out just a few of the many examples where dedicated, moral scientists have had a dramatic and positive impact on our lives.
Did you die from sepsis after giving birth? Science. Did you take your high blood pressure medicine today? Science. Did you post your comment on a computer? Science. Will you drive your car today? Science. How about TV? Running water in your house? Air conditioning (I know I need it where I live today!)? Science.
Don't paint all science as wrong, bad or corrupt just because these researchers clearly were. You benefit from science in so many ways, every day of your life - which will probably be much longer than that of your great-grandparents due, of course, to science.
Bear Truth. I can see that you hate the Catholic Church for reasons all to yourself but stick to the story. It serves no purpose.
The real impure issue here is the blatant over use and over prescription of drugs.
I'll have to find out what exactly those impurities were. I worked under a few scientists in grad school who were like this. I spoke up loudly and got nearly run out of the university for it until word got around and some of the honest ones realized that this honors student was getting shafted for doing the right thing and helped me out.
But I am aware also that sometimes a huge amount of noise is made over not very much. Sometimes these things can be politically motivated, although this one sounds pretty suspicious.
Riverddog while I am not certain as to whether your comment fits exactly with the story you are absolutely right about that.
drug companies who contract these studies with physicians assure them selves that they will get the result they want. example. one of the statins, widely prescribed. started with nearly 6000 subjects to become fda approved. immediately 3000 os so were dropped because they were normal humans with some medical problem. next another 1500 dropped when the trial began because of some form of intolerance to the drug. this leaves 25% of the original group to determine rate of tolerance and side effects. 75% already didnt tolerate it. and to date no long term study has been run because at 5 yrs nearly 75% of patients have stopped taking the meds for some reason. thats the way the system works when drug companies judge their own product by proxy, paying the doctor for the study
Physicist-retired, I agree with your comments here. This is not a systemic issue, the field as a whole does not protect this type of behavior, and the FDA is acting effectively so it seems that the mechanisms designed to protect us are working. It is not similar to, say, AIG which engaged in practices that undermined the financial markets, practices which were condoned by the system as a whole and which the system as a whole not only engaged in but fostered. And the Federal Reserve, which should have regulated the derivatives market, failed to act.
david1159, BearTruth is not expressing hatred for the church. He is lamenting the publicized ethical and moral failings of institutions he once believed held, as groups, to certain standards of behavior - he is referring to unethical behaviors that are widespread in these institutions, in fact protected by them, that harmed many. Citing the Catholic Church as one of those institutions is valid based on what has been made public. Noting that is not a matter of expressing hatred, just dismay.
The Catholic Church falls into this category as a matter of fact. There is international awareness of this, created by the results of investigations conducted in the US, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Canada, Norway, Argentina, Kenya, the Philippines - in short, anywhere that the Catholic Church has a significant presence. The Murphy Report summed it up when they noted that "clerical child sexual abuse was covered up by the Archdioceses of Dublin...the structures and rules of the Catholic Church facilitated the cover up."
These are the facts. You may not like them, and you may want to accuse the people who cite them as "haters," but that will not change the reality.
This type of experimentation is commonplace in the "mental health care" industry.
Oh yeah, and if you have a loved one in an assisted living facility or managed care facility, DON'T sign any blanket medications releases either. These facilities regularly contract with drug companies to provide a test group of patients from which to test experimental medications. FYI.
But here's the REAL story:
and in the next paragraph:
Your tax dollars at work.
As a Reg. nurse of almost 30 yrs I have to agree with your statement. The problem, widespread, in the great halls of medicine is that the people who really care, who consider themselves true patient advocates have little to no clout. Our American system of Medicine rewards those who are shrewd, bottomline money savers, and who can defeat or altogether avoid law suits. No bonus', awards, or applause for those who provide a margin of care above the average.
Barbara:
I think that's the core problem with Capitalism. When money matters most, quality of life pays the price.
The NAZI Eugenics program continues...
Wake up America, we live under the Fourth Reich
If science is so grand at this time, why are they experimenting on people during war time?
Sorry, but "no". I wish all science was impartial and driven by truth and data. However, the fact is that tenure and promotion in an academic setting depend ENTIRELY upon the acquisition of extramural funding (i.e., not teaching, not service, not finding truth -- just obtaining extramural $). Given that pressure, many scientists forget the basic tenets of the scientific method and fabricate, exaggerate, and falsify research data. Why? For the $ and job security. Otherwise, highly-trained scientists are out on the street and looking for a new job. Blame poor NIH funding of research. Only 10% of academic scientists can secure NIH funding for their grants. Given that highly competitive atmosphere, some scientists lose their morals. Sad, but true.
GEE THE POOR B$st$rds had to do this to PEOPLE with DISABLITIES. Why dont would you offer yourself to that research as they did to the disabled population. It sounds like condone and approve this behavior....THERE is NO EXCUSE for these " SCIENTISTS" They did not inform these people and they did not have thier informed consent....
I don't get that Dickman is in anyway justifying what happened. But he IS pointing out an unpleasant truth. Because of expectations of tenure at research institutions, professors and researchers are under tremendous pressure to produce. The whole 'publish or perish' has turned in to a situation where you can publish and publish and publish and STILL perish. THen you are out of a job with a huge amount of student loan debt.
I've been a librarian at a pretty major state university in the Midwest. This is true not just in the hard sciences, but throughout the entire system. It's not longer the best and brightest who succeed - it's the one who is the best professional panhandler. And being able to sell a project doesn't mean you have the ablity to actually do it from beginning to end. But it's the these professional panhandlers who are the stars of the show - the rest of the faculty is being worked into the ground.
And before anyone goes 'boo-hoo' you might want to stop and consider the fact that MORE pressure often results in sloppy and dangerous results. People need downtime in order to be truly creative and innovative. There is a reason why so many of the BEST advances to modern life happened during a time when 'We the People' decided to fund the research, instead of depending on a business model.
I do not condone what happened. There is no excuse for such immoral behavior. I was only trying to point out a potential flaw in academia that might actually contribute to unethical actions.
Not only that, Middle girl, but I know of highly placed scientists who literally stole their grants that made their careers. The universities knew, and did nothing, because the universities are likewise under huge pressure, and they get 1/3 of the total dollars (i.e. millions of dollars).
What that means is that in far too many cases, the people actually running the grants are marginally competent, or sometimes plain old incompetent. They are in it for the money and fame, not for the science.
PS- I think this is one of the reasons why the cost to NIH per product that gets out to patients has gone up to $60 million. Too often, it's not the man or woman who had the idea to investigate something, but the cheater who stole it who runs the project. And those guys don't get anywhere. I think DOJ should be going after those guys for defrauding the federal government.
I don't get the impression this situation was like that though. I'm just saying that this is one of the other significant problems in science.
John Toradze is right about university making money off of research grant. It's lucrative business for Columbia University. For every dollar the scientist gets to do research, Columbia gets 61 cents on top of that from the funding institution. Their current Facilities & Administrative costs are 61% -- as seen here http://spa.columbia.edu/files_sponsoredprojects/imce_shared/IC_agreement_July_30_2009.pdf
The "average" or "typical" NIH R01 is $250k/yr for 5 yr. That's $1.25M for the "science". Columbia would get an additional $762,500 to keep the lights on, buy paper towels for the bathrooms, etc.
So just one research project at Columbia costs NIH/American taxpayers $2,012,500.
And of course we have the right wing folks that continue to argue for smaller or no government. That government "intervention" should stop. That Adam Smith's 1759 "Invisible Hand" magically has all businesses & men correct themselves by the market. They would love to shut down the "liberal" (i.e. "free") press completely so these organizations & violations disappear from attention.
Maybe in an era where honor, truth, morals, & decency meant something? Where a hand-shake & your word meant everything. Alas, America is becoming the first corporate state on earth. Once the first liberal (i.e. liberalis class) state on earth. Where billionaires like Meg Whitman just buy control of government. Soon all free press and pesky FDAs will be gone. The market will be "free". It can be like the 1600s all over again, with new Kings running the place, not those annoying "free" people. Amassing wealth. Kings and Lords will have their day again.
The ideals of the 1700s just don't work in a world gone mad with profit. Insane with profiteering off human addiction and suffering. An entire system meant to fatten & sicken people from birth so they can be treated for illness their entire life.
I never thought I'd see Science Fiction come true in my lifetime. Mass madness, war. Sigh...
And of course we have the left wing folks that want more science and studies done that is funded by big government where they are paid to to these types of guinea pig experiments.
It is a known fact that these studies are funded by the government so if someone gets pissed off at someone else's work or they do not like the methods of getting the results you have wistle blowers and the FDA looks like the saviors. Yeh right.
From the article it started in 2007. This is not anything new. if you read papers on various "studies" you find more then just the "contaminants" they pass of as being safe.
I can not figure out why they reprted on this other then the law suits it stated were possible. If it were not for the law suits, you would not have heard any of this or other cases like this.
Oh yeh, it is not just smaller government we need it is honest government. But then there would not be a need for big governmet then right?
What we need is less religious interference in the government. Much scientific research is stifled by the shackles of christian religious beliefs which have no scientific value but are used as a measure to determine which research will go forward. Religious values also play too much of a role in politics in general. Religion has no place in government or research. Religion is an utterly illogical value applied to practices that require logic and knowledge.
I am not certain as to why we are getting religion into this discussion. If the question is whether there is there is religious interference in research the answer is yes of course. There is just as much government interference however as well as financial difficulties. Whether you agree with it or not religion offers a moral compass. If you follow a world be dammed attitude there is no telling where you might go.
For what it's worth, I have funded some of my own science for the reason that it's simpler, less complicated that way.
etuck....Had the Federal Government not offered such a premium of a grant it is possible these mad scientists would not have had the full resources to play chemical games.
What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath, especially ," I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and NEVER DO HARM to anyone..." I guess it doesn't apply to CERTAIN researchers. I know not all researchers are unethical, but the ones that are unethical, give the ones who are ethical a bad name.
Has anyone noticed that scientists targeted a population of people who are DISAB. LED? THEY selectively chose these people because of their differences." THESE SCIENTISTS" did not include neurotypical people . SICK,SICK , SICK.... WHen will people treat DISABLED people as equals as a standard. It is so hard to be disabled, the inequities exist all over, when will people learn. BTW I have low vison and eventually will be blind. I went to buy Books at Barnes & Nobles and I was shown to Large Print, all that was there were trashy novels by Danielle Steele and Nora Roberts...Yuck. The company assumed that the only people wanting those books were elderly.... I am very young.... The people involved in this should have the same procedure, they did to people with disabilities. FIRE EVERYONE! From the top down .
Yes, they did those experiments on people with disabilities, but that is only because that is what they were studying. There were also controls, normal people, and those people were also given the same stuff.
The people with disabilities weren't informed that they would get the tainted ,not untainted. The participants who were Neurotypical did not receive the tainted. Remember informed consent papers? A Pro Bono lawyer should be involved and get Big$$$ it could improve the quality of life. THink about the moral ethics should scientists be able to select purposely a community of people ? Remember how many black men were in a study and scientists singled them out to inject them with syphilis. That is criminal behavior.
"First, do no harm" was removed from the Hippocratic Oath several decades ago. It makes sense to relax medical morality for business profit and legal liability reasons.
This really sounds like the studies once done by those fabulous doctors in Nazi Germany on Hypothermia. Dr. Josef Mengele would be so proud!
Studies like this were also done in the early 20th century here in this country on mentally handicapped people and certain racial groups. I thought we were past all this, for God's sake.
He's right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
loli - i had the same thoughts although much more experimentation was done besides hypothermia. that was the least of it. sickening and very tragic. i do have one question about this from a scientific aspect rather than a humanitarian aspect...if you are using tainted or sub-par materials, how much accuracy could be expected in the testing??? sad.
Also the twins studies... during WWII
i guess, and strongly believe that F.D.R. was correct; we do need to be saved from ourselves. right, mr. reagan?
Tomjam I am not exactly certain as to where your going with that comment. Reagen never wanted to have no regulation but rather reduced regulation in areas where regulation was not necessary. The problem that you might have found with as a problem with Reagen is the area of government research grants. Reagen wanted to reduce them and without them some of this research may not have been done at all.
Those researchers who used the impure drugs need to have their professional accreditations removed and to be publicly censured so everyone knows who they are. They should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law- abusing the helpless- most states have laws protecting them. Science has a long record of doing things like this or worse here in the US. The MK ULTRA program of the CIA didn't hesitate to pay for abusive studies and researchers didn't have any qualms about performing it, no matter how destructive or abusive to the subjects being experimented on. People like Dr. Ewin Cameron destroyed people's lives and totally wiped out their memories yet were highly honored in their profession.
This should not be tolerated at all and should be punished heavily. Nazi like morality has no place in science being practiced here in the US, especially when it involves helpless or impaired subjects- or anyone or any animal for that matter. How do these researchers look in the mirror every morning? Does this not qualify as a crime against humanity?
That is too little punishment. They need to be put behind bars for life. Nazi like morality is exactly what current modern science is about - God haters like Hawkings and Dawkins who use science as a platform for atheism - evolution - evolution - evolution - there is no sanctity of life because men are created in God's image - that is an absurd notion to folks like this.
Michael Baun,
Your statement is insane, and is obviously twisted to fit your own perverted view of science. I suggest you do not visit your doctor anymore, give up all technology, and park your car immediately.
There is evil people everywhere and in everything. Don't believe me? Google "pedophiles and churches". The point is, they ALL need to be held accountable for their actions.
Big government, small government... doesn't matter, either way you'll be left with that greasy feeling in the end. Hey Washington where's my kiss. You guy's could at least take America out to dinner first.
constitutionally
Is that where you like it? In the end? Well, at least you use grease.
There is a perfectly safe drug that both sides, left and right should get behind. Google us patent 6630507 to find out what it is.
Does that mean producers will have to pay royalties?
First, a previous commenter infers the right wing cry for less government and services is at fault for this issue. He left out the right wing necessary condition on the above which is less "unnecessary government".
Secondly, we saw the how scientistist cooked the books with regard to global warming, steering research only to so called "peer reviews" to peers who were just as dishonest in their work. There was deliberate steering of research work away from peers who are honest, diligent in their review. Why the false concocted so called research.? To get the Grant Money. The result of this type of so called scientific work is poor quality, unsubstantiated conclusions and we who from our taxes which support grants, do not get the value for the money our tax dollars supplied.
In Columbia's Brain Lab, the "impurities" were probably most likely "filth". I would like to know who were those not the researchers, but the Quality Assurance team who are independent of the managment of the researchers, that did not verify and validate medicines before they were used. Again my guess is they were the foxes who guarded the research hen house.
Research Laboratories are subject to the CFR's for Good Laboratory Practices, GLPs, and also for Good Manufacturing Practices, GMPs. If they recieved "Notices of Adverse Findings" as are given to say Drug Companies who must respond in implementing corrective actions. If that does not happen, then the FDA issues a "Regulatory Letter" to the company or research organization which cites the infractions, penalties (fines and jail) given to the CEO or in case of research, the person or research grant benefactor. Both of these are time sensitive. I have seen on where 3years was a response time as was for Columbia.
To me this stinks of a serious crime as well as lousy science. Those resposible should loose their licenses, credentials and prohibited from any further grants.
I'd like to know what the impurities were. It is possible that they were a technicality sort of thing, but I don't know and would like to. There are impurities, and then there are impurities.
Consider, for instance, the impurities people put into their bodies with cigarettes, or pot, or other things. I would be surprised if these impurities were worse, and probably a whole lot less bad.
Correction to next to last paragraph: "I have never seen..." rather than "I have seen..."
I hope the FDA sues the crap out of Columbia. Then I hope the affected patients do the same. It's bad enough these people were ill -- Columbia and its so-called "scientists" took further advantage of them for their own aggrandizement, which sets them right up there with concentration camp doctors.
....."They raid the place like it was a crime scene..." Duh - It was a crime scene. These people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and the law should be closed down. If they can't do it right then they should not be permitted to continue their "experiments".
I agree with you totally. If these accusations are found to have merit, then they should be treated exactly like criminals too, because that is what they are. Everyone that is found to be involved or even aware of situation should be held accountable. If this is true, they are highly educated criminals, but criminals none the less. This stories remind me of the "Tuskegee syphilis experiment" and the Army "LSD experiments" from the past. I thought just maybe we could have learned something from our past mistakes. Hopefully, this time will be different and instead of apologizing years down the road for their "mistakes" will be dealt with like the crimes they are. If I was a vindictive person, I would say they just found a whole new group of "volunteers" for the study to continue too. However, I was taught that two wrongs don't make a right very early in life.
I would love to hear about every Shrink and Shrink-Sycophant out there in this country getting a monthly Halodal needle ( don't forget the cogentin for your stiff necks) and being housed in fourth-basement-level dorms w/one elevater to the surface. After a couple of years of that ...when they develop some kind of inCure-able blood disorder then they can be released.
Stinking Scum Shrinks each and every one. You get both my middle fingers plus...... can you feel the hate radiate?
I hope the errors in spelling and syntax in this post jerk your punk chains. Mouthy bunch a vermin. The whole pack of you, psychologists included, are nothing but drugPushing Thugs.
CopsAre....
Why, yes!
The medications obviously failed. Maybe a lobotomy would help. Sure couldn't hurt!
maybe its a choice between taking your meds or being locked up to prevent you from killing every human you come into contact with. seems a nobrainer there. play nice or you will be punished appropriately
Leave it to some atheistic scientists to treat men and women like chimps - not that even chimps should be treated this way! Evolutionary ethics is a clear problem here - who cares about the "inferior" -- inject them with plutonium, infect them with Syphilis -- inject them with impure mind altering drugs ... this is the legacy of evolutionary ethics. Where is the outrage here - these people should be put in prison.
Yeah, Reagan just put them on the streets WITHOUT drugs and treatments. I wonder if he was an atheist, too?
Religion has nothing to do with this. Or anything else, for that matter.
No, my friend, it isn't evolutionary ethics. The cause of all this is flawed human beings and they can be Christians or atheists. How about the Christian belief of eternal torture if you simply don't believe in a certain way? Is that evil or what?
While you agree with religion or not it has no part in this story. What it has to do with is the criminal activity to use in pure ingredients to prove their research. We the people are paying for this government reseach that can never be used and they new it.
rn, most of the intelligent comments come from the nurses. you know whats happening, so why does it persist? the rest of you are late for your injections.
I believe that the law of money is what talks and this is what has detroyed integrity. Doctors
prescribe drugs that they are unfamiliar with and cause no end of damage to people that would
otherwise be healthier, this is due to the big pharmaceuticals giving out freebies to the doctors!!
If you question the doctor he becomes irritated that you have the audacity to question his authority.
Ah, what ever happened to the bedside manner, humanity and caring??
You're obviously going to the wrong doctor. Change immediately and find one who will listen to you and respect the fact that you know your own body and what's happening to it.
This shows that the truth is seldom welcome in places that are caring for our mentally ill. The use of impure injection media is unacceptable ever in this special case because the issues it can cause are infinite. When compared to the benefit gained by taking a shortcut one could say that this represents a gross violation of human rights only slightly less than those that would get you called a terrorist. I would not want to be treated by these methods and it is high time higher education and govenment answered to the people being served. Too bad someone has to be exposed to the unknown in a mental patient setting. This is like me taking your kids for a high speed chase and when it ends peacefully saying, "Since no one was hurt, no harm no foul." Let me go and get water from sources I know I can't trust and inject you. But wait that would be wrong. Resignations and reassignments, ha, this was criminal behavior by people who could write the book on what is right and wrong.
The main reason these kinds of behaviour/actions/practices do not become a bother to us, is because we see ourselves as mere animals. And in some cases, are things we are rewarded for.
When reward merits are been considered, ethics and honesty usually rank close to the bottom.
As an imaging professional (not PET, x-ray), I can understand how the doctors in charge used their clout to intimidate the staff. What I don't get is why the staff didn't have the courage to report or leave. We imaging professionals are held to a standard of ethics, too, and cannot claim ignorance or fear just because the doctor says so. The imaging staff who came forward should be commended for their courage, and their sense of justice.
As a person with a mental illness, I'm aghast at the possibilities that tainted data can spawn. New drugs, so full of promise, delivered with the buried knowledge that it's very likely not all it promises to be.
And also, as a human, not disabled at all, but walking and working amongst you, I am your neighbor, a mother, a wife, a member of your workforce and so much more. I hold my diagnosis close to my vest so I won't offend you or frighten others with my---what?---latent maniacal tendencies?!? Once people with mental illnesses are destigmatized, some of this undercover "tainting" may stop as well. There simply won't be as many people keeping secrets.
Thank you. Finally someone who understands! It is a difficult road when people make false assumptions, based on what they "Think" they know vs actually know. Thank you so much for having the courage to speak out. It is not easy to do when you know that the general public does not always have a clue. Hopefully some day there will no longer false judgements. I have a son with anxiety and mood disorder, I walk the path because I am a mother and I love my son.
What happened to informed consent? Surely the patients did not consent to the administration of drugs that didn't meet minimum standards.
Read the book "The Human Radiation Experiments". I was told about some of these things happening when I was in college (Radiology) but this book goes into detail about the extent that people will go to see the effect of the unknown. Also for RT's lots of CE credits.
How can any schiczophrenic trust these Ivy League phonies, that shill for the drug companies?
makes you feel kind of "paranoid" problem is this happens more than anybody will ever know. "medical professionals' try to get good results on drugs any way they can. it keeps the drug company dollars coming back for more research. i dont trust any of it. like going to a ford salesman for the beat reviews on a chevy. aint gonna happen.
Despicable.
Patients with mental illness have enough to deal with without this kind of crap. We are not lab rats, we are human beings who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. There would be a much louder outcry if this had happened to cancer patients. Those researchers should be punished legally and lose and licensure or accreditation.
Time to get an attorney! Peace and Pay Up!
Let the lawsuits begin.
I'd say it was more than justified although whatever they may get would never be enough.