yes, this 'article' is yet another lame msn attempt at journalism. trying to turn 160 cases and 2 deaths into an epidemic. but then creating panic is all the media s good for these days, remember how the bird flu was going to wipe out mankind, then it was swine flu? obviously this so called reporter is out of ideas to fill space.

@cmon-864012 "another lame msn attempt at journalism" - Question: why do you read MSN then?

@Carmen-1965629 There are far better, more effective ways of quieting a child then feeding them drugs.

perhaps msn should address the epidemic of pathetic excuse-makers and deniers.

like carmen and cmon.

Carmen, why would any sane being use drugs to quiet a child? Unless there is something medically wrong with the child the use of drugs is abuse. Maybe someone should send CPS to your house...

I believe the key passage in this article was the one that mentioned the phenomenon as 'rare, bur recognized'.

ugh, I usually don't bother responding to stupid comments, but carmen wasn't advocating using drugs, just speculating that that's what the abusers are doing. read, people!

I let my son spend the night at my good friend and neighbor's house one night with her kids. When I came to pick him up the next morning, she told me, "Oh, by the way, I gave him some cough syrup last night before he went to bed because he coughed." I was stunnned, because he did not have a cold, nor did he have a cough. Needless to say, I never let him sleep over her house again. No one should administer a drug to another person's (or any) child unless the child is ill. I think she just wanted to make sure the kids slept through the night and didn't disturb her. Some good parenting, huh?

I know in our rural area where high school sports reign, many parents of wrestlers give them laxatives in the few days leading up to weigh ins so they can make the lower weight class and then take them to Golden Corral or another buffet so they can bulk up on protein-rich and heavy foods.

Carmen, don't be naive -- child abuse is extremely common, and anyone who's worked with abused kids has seen many cases of parents using drugs and alcohol on their children in the same way they'd use a fist or a belt.

You "not believing" something is abuse is ridiculous -- you either know it's abuse (which you clearly don't, given that you don't work directly with these cases) or you don't know. And you, Carmen, DO NOT KNOW.

You can come back and offer your opinion when you have a basis for making a decision that involves something other than reading things on the internet.

I agree that this is one of the worst written story I have seen an a long time. I saw a poster who had an issue with someone that stated something to the effect that 160 children is not a large number to worry about. Well I hate to say it but the birth rate in the U.S. each year is over 4,00000 per http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html and that is as off 2005. 160 kids a year is .0004%. Not seeing the scare or the epidemic here. Also the author really does not use any facts to support the case. What do I mean by that? Well things like the actual number of kids and how they were hurt, the general results of the criminal investigations such as intent. The one fact they did use was a man who put lighter fluid in the soup so he could sue a soup company. How that is related is beyond me because it seems like a story of prescription drug and over the counter drug abuse.

Also this doctor that is cited as a source Doctor Yin states that “I don’t think it’s right at any time to give unprescribed medicine to a child,” he said. “Did the parent do it out of frustration? Did they do it at their wits’ end? If that’s the case, we need to be even more aggressive in terms of parent education.”

What he does not seem to understand is almost every time a parent takes their child in for a cold or sniffle, the doctor and nurse tells then the same old b.s. story. Take lots of fluids and get rest. All for a reasonable price of $70 visit fee in my area and $300 in the er visits. Sorry I am not daddy warbucks and do have to live in a budget. So I like many parents give a little children's cold medication to reduce any fevers or to help with a cough and congestion so ALL family members can rest through the night. This is not abuse and I believe to sit and watch a child suffer and cry all night and do nothing is more abuse.

I keep waiting for MSN to start providing more in depth stories but as always am left wanting more.

That Cunningham guy has set himself up for some pretty serious karma. Tsk tsk. Taxpayers have to support him for the rest of his (hopefully short) life.

Obviously beconti's mommy didn't give him/her their meds.

I am reminded that back in the day, we used to give our babies "sugar tits" when they were teething. Anyone here old enough to remember that?

An old sock or handkerchief, (yes people, it was clean), with some sugar tied up in it, dipped in whiskey. The chewing was soothing, the sugar tasted good, and the whiskey dulled the pain.

Generations of children were no worse the wear for it. But of course, this is something different. This is diabolical.

Sleeping pills, cough syrup, laxatives harm 160 children a year, study says

What? No mention of ritalin?

No, ritalin is what state funded foster parents use to control otherwise normal healthy children, so that they can have as many "paychecks" in their homes at one time.

Look at the studies done on Ritalin use, seizure disorders (epilepsy), and later life drug addictions and you can see that the use of ritalin is in fact increasing the problem children must deal with instead of helping. I have 6 high energy, highly emotional children. They also have a 50-50 chance of inheriting epilepsy from their father. Structure, routine and diet - exercise are all the requirements they need to function. They also don't sit and play video games, watch TV, or text on cell phones all day long.

Aren't you just high and mighty. Sounds like you are bitter that the state is not paying you to parent your children. What in God's name does seizure medication have to do with this story? Maybe I'm not reading your post correctly, but some of it does not make sense to me.

It is clear that a recent string of MSN articles related to "pain meds". and recent visit of " pain association Drs to the White House ( who's members number approx 300, which does not make them a force in medicine even if you are on pain medications) that pain medications, legitimate ones, are for some reason once again, under attack.

Legitimate pain management, is needed and warranted in many many medical cases. The Majority of legitimate pain management patients take them as prescribed, and the Drs prescribe them properly. .

There is a small fraction of pill mills, which could easily be stopped. Other than that, one reason for this attack is that they cannot stop the flow of Illegal drugs, coke, heroin etc , so they are going after legitimate pain management patients and Drs. I see it everywhere. Drug stores are now managing precriptions for Drs, and local police try and try in vain, to get good legitimate Drs to "give them a script for fun". Drs won't do it, and don't prescribe them for money.

160 compared to the number of children in this world, is statistically nothing to be concerned about as far as an epidemic. It wouldn't even register in any other disease or treatment, or abuse cases. Millions of children are sexually abused, yet this reporter reports on 160 kids who have been giving cough medicine?

This is about a poor an article as one could write, and this reporter must have some agenda. I wish he/she would explain the purpose of this, as it it isn't about 160 kids.

ANY child being hurt or abused is wrong, and people should be prosecuted, but to say there is a new drug epedemic because of 160 kids were ABUSED , and that is the word for it, and the only subject here would not hold up to any legitimate scientific study. None.

Millions more are sexually abused

Millions more are given or take alcohol , yet the writer doesnt mention alcohol at all. What is the agenda here?

I am seeing this attack on pain meds. People abuse twinkies, cup cakes, alcohol, text while driving, and so on and so on. The only conclusion I can think of is the Government is going to cut pin medications and management , in the new healthcare bill to cut cost.

Or, the Police are trying to justify the BILLIONS of dollars in there budgets, in a war, they have never made a dent in.

Abuse of children, and abuse of any substance is a problem. One group can go to jail, the other can get treatment, but this story is bogus, and one has to question why it was written.

Explain your motivation writer!

The bottom line here.

You have to take a test to be able to drive a care. It is easier to have a child than it is to get the right to drive a car. That is absurd.

There are many many people who shouldn't be driving, ever, and there are many people who will never be good parents.

In stead of going after Pain meds, go after the abusers. Write about that . It is a far far far bigger problem than the content of this article .

Abuse of children is wrong. Anyone who abuses their child, should be under a one strike rule. Giving a child lighter fluid would be a 1 stike deal.

Other than that, to use a car as instance, if you drive badly, you have to take a class. You have to appear in court . If you give your kid, or anyone a precibed drug, you should go to jail, but again STATISTICALLY this article doesnt merrit the space.

we all know 1 kid too many is abused.

Anyone who gives drugs of any kind other than from a prescription for that child should be locked away as a criminal. This is the worst kind of abuse. I don't care what the motive, any adult who is involved in this activity is a criminal, period.

You don't think they are malicious? Ridiculous, they are criminals.

The bottom line here is that the writer was not trying to analyze the mentally imparied sociopathic people who create children and then call themselves parents after they harm their child by giving them wrong doses of medicine with intent to cause impairment or bodily harm with, drugs, alcohol, etc. The writer was simply trying to provide a story about children who are being abused by their care givers in ways the public may not be aware of because it's not all over the news like other forms of child abuse is. Those who state their opinions so strongly and have many words to say about abused children, be a CASA advocate and help fight child abuse by protecting the children. There are also other ways and organizations that provide emotional support for people who really shouldn't have children to begin with but have that responsibility. Those reading this, search online and form groups in your area toHELP prevent child abuse by forming education support centers. www.meetups.com where you can start a meetup group and work together in the community to help prevent another case of abuse on a child. Yes, I have a meetup group in Orlando that's starting next week. Educational Support Group for Parents. I also have worked as a casa advocate in my area. One of the best forms of protection you can provide is volunteering as a CASA advocate in your area for children who are victims of this abuse by care givers. Good Luck to everyone

As the worker for 13 of my own wonderfully state funded foster parents, I just have to wonder what rock you crawled out from under Mom of 6? When was the last time you opened your home to a very troubled child and was willing to make them a part of your family? When was the last time you had to deal with PTSD symptoms that exhibited as hyperactivity and had to try a variety of medications to deal with anxiety, depression, anger, and manic moods? When was the last time you had to console a schizophrenic child who was trying to self harm and the only solution was a mood stabilizer? Oh wait, you think eating more carrots will fix that! I'll tell my schizo-affective 10 year old to quit playing video games with his imaginary friend and have a banana. By the way, since when are children yanked from their biological families (who they have extreme attachments to) where they may or may not have endured physical or emotional abuse "otherwise normal"? Cite your source on that one!

This rant is totally off the topic of the article, but definitely needed to point the ignorance of some people out. Open your home or shut your mouth!

It is obvious that we need to panic and get every level of government from township, municipal clear thru federal and WHO involved and immediately start a process where all kids are drug and alcohol tested at every turn!! We simply cannot trust parents with their own kids, now that there is an unverified report of chemically abusing children that has been published on msn, oh we knew it would happen!!! We have got to organize fast, no time for sleep, start investigating your neighbors now, it could already be too late, we can do this and it will be painless and there will be no beaurocratic red tape or innocent people questioned or convicted! A fair long prison sentence will discourage people from doing this kind of thing to their children that are at their mercy! You see this shows that people cannot think for themselves, they need other people to guide them to where it is that they should go, what it is that they need to do and more importantly, how they should think!! Since this report has surfaced, there is no excuse to hesitate this call to action, as stated above the key passage rare but recognized, but why wait to find out if it is epidemic as some on here have claimed, and the report said that there was more likely some unreported cases, why it could be billions as far as we know!! There could be people who could be filling a prison cell, better safe than sorry!!

I worked at a school for MR/DD and saw my share of abuse, kids with black eyes to broken femurs! I more than once felt the urge to hit a piece of @!$%# who I KNEW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT had hurt a child, but I would have lost my job and I also would not have been there to look for the signs of abuse! Yes chemicals were used by parents, it was obvious too, kids would come in looking like they were in college and it was the end of the semester! Parents would too! You could tell when the scripts were filled or the eagle has landed and they had money. There are going to be more MR/DD children involved in this for the simple fact that these children are prescribed meds to begin with! Their parents are prescribed meds to help deal with or calm down from their own kids! Sometimes the children are in the boat they are in because of their parents drug use during pregnancy to begin with, or because of an abusive father on alcohol or drugs assaulting a pregnant mother! My point is, don't pull the typical American reaction and OVERREACT! The report just came out and hit MSN, people are divided over something that has been going on for a hell of a lot longer than most folks like to believe! That doesn't mean that it isn't worthy of being addressed! Just not in the typical knee jerk all inclusive yet better than that not me it's them there kind of people fashion!! This nation rushes to judgment faster than anything that I have ever seen!! Everyone knows what is best for everyone else!! This report will plant seeds and things will happen, hopefully in the right time for the right reasons to the right people!!

I have heard stories in the past of baby sitters overdosing children in their care on Benadryl to get them to sleep on more than one occasion. We don't need to overreact but we do need to be vigilant and be aware that this is occuring and help the children.

There are a lot of extremely sick people in this world we live in. And way too many people who should not have children.

Agreed some people shouldnt have children or should at least try and seek help if they start having feelings about giving their children drugs. For example like post pardon depression i under stand some parents feel overwhelmed and out of control and their young child who needs them is acting like a young child wanting to play or throwing a fit but that's when you call a responsible person for help to give you a break and you seek professional help so you dont end up hurting your child. If you keep giving your child drugs made for adults or you overdose your child they can have long term and long lasting affects. So yea parents shut them up now but what about in the near future when because of parents the kid end up with sever mental disability.

pretty rude there ivanho75. whether you know this or NOT some schools back in the seventies experimented with phonectic spelling, that experiment failed and some of us are a little screwed up for it and don't deserve bashing

There are three types of parents. Type one gives their children medicines to help the child, and asks questions before using medications. Type two is the parent who gives their kid medicines to make life easier for themselves (i.e. thinks it's ok to give their kids antihistamines to knock them out). Type three are the sickos who give kids drugs for their own amusement. Both type two and type three are being abusive and need to seek help. I am pretty sure there are probably thousands of cases of this that have not come out, yet. I raised four kids and sure it would have been easier to drug them everynight, but I chose to give them warm baths to help them relax instead. Being a parent is both a priviledge and a responsibility and we adults need to act grown ups.

Parents and sitters unable to cope with children have been doing this forever.

Before drugs they out right killed or abandoned them.

Paregoric was in late 18th and early 19th century the drug of choice.

There is another kind of parent/caregiver that pimps out their child and uses drugs like rohypnol, valium, or large amounts of cough syrup to make the child malleable. It happens quite a bit. One way you can suspect this is when a young teen shows up with HIV/AIDS but has no memory of anything happening. It takes 5-7 years to show up, so a child of 12-16 with AIDS was probably drugged and used at parties when very young.

Alicia... so giving soup with lighter fluid to a child over the age of 7 is ok?? no child I don't care how bad they act from time to time, or even most of the time EVER deserve to be treated with suck a lack of care and respect that their lives can be snuffed out just like that and it will not be a big deal.

We may be seeing much more of this in years to come, however.

There is a rapidly growing population of essentially unwanted children out there. Quite a few, uh, 'just happened' as they sometimes say. This is likely the case where the grandparents are always having to take care of the kids while the biological parents are running all over the place doing anything except raising their children. Many, many, I fear, are the ones who were intentionally born, but only for financial reasons: a monthly check from somebody, meant to provide for the child, but in reality diverted to the mother's exclusive use as often as she can make it happen.

I've known of cases where women have done everything they could to ensure they'd have a child with some guy, convinced he was rich and hoping for generous child support from him for the next 18 years. Sadly, it often happens they belatedly learn that their prince was worthless and up to his neck in debt, and that was if he stuck around that long. In other cases I've heard of, the dude skips town and the new mother learns she didn't know his real name and the one he told her isn't getting her anywhere in finding him!

And then, there's the government check. The women who've figured out that babies can be profitable start having them every year. They go through the motions of parenting, but they're not having the children for the joys of parenting. The kids are just a cost of doing 'business'. I'm pretty sure that situation is ripe for what John Toradze describes in post 2.7, along with all kinds of other unsavory stuff. Since the mother couldn't care less about the welfare of her children, I'm sure she'll see drugging them as a very acceptable option when they start to act like natural children and scream, jump, and run through the house.

the TiGor --

Talk about stereotypes! You've covered them very well!

Just Me - I think TiGor needs to start hanging around a better class of people!

@JustMe Stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason....because it happens more often than not. Our social care system is broken...when you pay people to care for children with little oversight you will have the type of parents that TiGor is talking about "raising" kids, and abusing them with various drugs to shut them up and/or use them. I work in the social system and I see it way too often, but its hard to stop because the system is set up in a way that "catching" the evil, lazy, horrible user of a parent is very difficult. You can be a bleeding heart, but the facts are facts. I also see wonderful parents, just trying to get by, but the others far outnumber them.

Blondeness, I agree with you. What I don't understand is why people in the second and third categories have kids at all. I know full and well that kids will completely disrupt your life, and that's not something that I want to or would be able to deal with. So you know what I did? I chose not to have them. Why does this option escape so many people? Granted, it would be easier if society didn't look down on people who choose to not reproduce (and tried not to convince us that "it's different when it's your own!"), but still.

My sister in law had friends who were spitting out babies with different men just for the checks. Great system huh?

I'm the parent of a 30 year-old and back when she was a child (1-5), you would have never read an article like this! What the hell is goin' on?! Call me naive but this kind of stuff just doesn't register with me. And please don't reply with "You're naive..." I know i am.

It happened then too JGT. Unfortunately, all these things that happen to kids, from molestation, alcohol etc, have happened for 1,000's of years.

There are some people in this world who do not deserve to be around kids, but this writer, in this article, was paiting this picture with a VERY broad brush.

Just me 1436687 and Kat 1015719,

I would love to hang out with a 'better' class of people. Unfortunately, where I live in the upper Midwest, this is pretty much what you see. The neighborhood I live in was what used to be known as a 'nice, normal' one thirty years ago. Blue collar, for sure, but decent. In the past few years, my house is the only one in the neighborhood that has not seen a visit from the police for service of search or arrest warrants or for settling a domestic disturbance. Three of the six houses adjacent to mine were vacant for a period in the past five years after the tenants were arrested, tried, and convicted on felony charges. One of them was the kingpin of a large burglary ring and fencing operation, and another is now serving a long sentence for attempted murder after he stabbed someone.

But, just so you know, I don't actually 'hang out' with any of these people. My closes friends live far away and I work a lot. I'm usually up at 3AM most mornings, so I'm not up late and not ever seen at parties or engaging in other forms of 'night life'. Past my bedtime!

It had been for awhile that this kind of thing was in the 'lower class' neighborhoods and never seen in the enclaves where professional people lived. That was maybe ten years ago. Since then, a good portion of those people's kids have fallen down and now those folks get to deal with their kids being all over the place all the time while their grandchildren live with them. It's spreading rapidly and it would seem that no place will be immune to it.

So, Just Me, I have to wonder. Since you declared my precise descriptions of a behavior often demonstrated by people today as a 'stereotype' and noted that I've cover it pretty well, does this mean you have an intimate knowledge of this behavior, or do you see it everywhere in your community as well and wonder just what happened?

"No" to both questions. I also live in the Upper Midwest. But there are still areas of the country where everyone does not fit into your categories. I'm sorry you have to live in such an area.

@ Just Me - 1436687,

Suspicion confirmed. As soon as I read "...where everyone does not..." I knew that what I thought was happening really was. If you go back and read both my post 2.9 and 2.17, you may notice that I never made any mention whatsoever that EVERYONE did fit into 'my categories'.

I did state that it is a rapidly growing population of unwanted children that are especially at risk from the horrors John described in post 2.7.

I'm a bit puzzled at why you would infer that I was trying to say that everyone who had children didn't want them and would have no problem endangering them for their own convenience. Of course, anytime someone offers up the word 'stereotype', that raises a flag with me. Quite often, a person will fall back on that when they know they're guilty of doing something and have no valid defense for it. Not too much unlike the person caught breaking the law, who instead of making amends and not repeating the offense, makes a point of hating police officers, essentially for doing their jobs. That being said, you can see why I was left wondering.

As far as stereotypes go, Jenn G. has a point in the observations she shares. Realistically, for a stereotype to be such, one has to be offering a generalization that applies to all people sharing some common trait that is completely beyond their control. Like their gender, ethnic heritage, or the color of their skin. That link has to be there. In my observation, there is no link. The people I'm referencing have only one thing in common, which is the behavior. I see it being done by people of all backgrounds.

It is true that they are all women of child bearing age, as senior citizens aren't in a position to engage in the behavior, however, I can assert that a startling number of men I've met have put themselves into essentially a reverse mode of it. They openly brag about how many children they've fathered with different women. I can understand their claiming to have slept with a lot of women, but having had kids with them? Huh? All of these men that I've encountered recently are still unemployed, have no problem coming up with money for motorcycles, cars, electronic entertainment, new tattoos, ad nauseum, but they seem to be equally as 'proud' to NOT be paying child support as they are to have all of these kids. My neighbor two doors down tells everyone he's got six! I don't get it.

My pointing out that the ever-increasing amount of children who are unwanted and unloved are at extreme risk of being illicitly medicated for nefarious reasons being a stereotype is about like saying, 'Those dang thieves, they're always stealing things!'. No kidding? If it's going to be a valid sterotype, you need 'Those dang _________, they're always thieves!'.

I'm hoping your home in the Upper Midwest is rural enough that you're not seeing the disgusting 'Children For Fun and Profit' phenomenon. You do not have to live in a very large city to see far more of it than you ever want to.

So what you're saying is that the 160 kids don't matter because there are millions of others? I'm not sure I understand that line of thought, but I do agree with you that too many parents allow their kids to be medicated merely because they are over active.

I have a 9 year old who I am sure is hyperactive. Does he drive me nuts? Yes, at times he can. But I don't medicate him. I do my best to make sure he has a structured routine each day. I seldom allow soda or candy, but he does get these things on occasion for a treat. In other words, I am parenting my child. Something millions of parents don't do either because they don't know how or they're just too damn lazy.

I'm fairly certain that there are a multitude of kids out there that are medicated for ADHD that are just simply being kids. Kids are active. They have short attention spans. That's part of being a NORMAL child. As far as kids in school, maybe that's where homeschool should come in. Public schools in this country are a joke. And I'm speaking as a someone who went to high school for a year and then finished at home. (I was learning stuff I'd learned in 6th grade at home) I'm also speaking as someone who's husband is a paraeducator in a class of middle school boys who are too disruptive to be in the regular classroom.

DJMO -I can appreciate the fact that you are a teacher as my husband teaches at the high school level. However, I cannot appreciate that you believe to know my son or myself.

We have had our son evaluated by a pediatrician, who like me doesn't like to medicate kids unless there is no other alternative. Our son is extremely bright with an IQ on the cusp of the genius level. He is in the gifted program. He does very well in school, not only getting good grades, but also well behaved. His teachers, so far, have very made very nice comments about his social and intellectual skills.

I attribute this to a couple of different things; his routine is well structured at home and school, his diet is monitored and as his parents we pay attention to what's going on with him. I am not in denial, nor am I neglecting my child because I have failed to medicate him.

Perhaps you would now like to pull your own head out of your ass.

Any child abuse is heart breaking to read about. Especially intentional harm.

I think the American psychiatric profession does much greater harm. I cannot reconcile that over 90% of the Attention Deficit Disorder drugs are prescribed in America and to Children under the age of 14.

That would suggest that only America has this "disease". Only American Children.... Personally I suspect we are doing much more damage to Millions of children a year by over prescribed pshyc drugs. Strong anti-depressant Drugs that are not even supposed to be prescribed to kids are being used as sleeping drugs on 12 year olds. Apparently psychiatrist can ignore warnings on age and dose by the FDA whenever they want. I know this from a personal experience in Foster parenting. Nothing I could do since I only had physical custody...

ADHD may be a real concern although I have never met anyone who didn't agree it is completely out of control and over diagnosed. Had a shrink tell me that if he didn't give a diagnosis he didn't get paid by insurance.

I have also heard many school teachers referred to as incompetent when they wish that all of their students were exactly the same. If you want to teach brain dead zombies perhaps you should leave the school system and work at a morgue. Perhaps DJMO needs to get her head out of the sand. Perhaps DJMO needs to get off the meds she is on.

DJMO while I agree that there are kids who are rightly diagnosed with ADHD I also know that it is being over-diagnosed.

There are too many kids who really do just have behavioral issues being diagnosed with ADHD.

In southeastern Virginia 17 percent of elementary school children have been diagnosed with ADHD. That's more than double the national average according to one study.

These days there is a freaking name and drug for every single problem we can think of. It's abundant and out of hand.

The one thing we are short on is personal responsibility.

I tend to agree that we're labeling normal behavior as ADHD - especially in boys. A big part of the problem is that our society is designed in such a way that kids can't run their energy off. Structured activities are not the same thing as play. Studies have shown that boys are better able to relate a story read to them if they are allowed to pace while the story is being read.

Then there is also the issue that we've made things so 'family friendly' that people only see kids in certain settings. In other words, many adults don' KNOW how kids act. It's sad that our society really does divide everyone up by age. :-(

DMJO, as a fellow teacher, I would like to tell you that medication isn't the only answer. I have seen many ADHD students whose parents are able to control their behavior through diet, sport, and a highly structured routine. Is medication for ADHD appropriate in some cases? Absolutely. Is it appropriate in all cases? Not at all. If all other options are not able to control the child's behavior, then parents should consider medication. But just because one parent has found a way to control her child's behavior using methods other than drugs does not mean she is not caring for him properly. Finally, as a teacher, I would like to remind you that you are an educational professional NOT a medical professional. Many of my fellow teachers are far too quick to suggest medicating children as a way of controlling them. Teachers, for the most part, do not have medical degrees. Our field of expertise is eduation, not medicine.

My son was ADHD...we treated it with diet and exercise..he played soccer from the time he was 5 until he graduated from college. Yes, ADHD and was excepted into SMU....all through diet and excercise..no medication. He is now 32 and doing well. I am thankful we didn't use drugs on him.

DMJO, I also have to ask what you are doing to foster acceptance of the kid with ADHD in your classroom and lower the resentment from the other kids. resentment turns into bullying and exclusion, 2 things you are responsible for curbing in your class room. Have you tried to make your classroom more structured and less stimming? Have only one instruction focal point in the class room to help them focus?What are you doing to help kids with ADHD in your classroom during classroom time?

Unfortunately you seem, based on your posts, to be a bit like most teachers I have encountered , "Have you medicated your child to thier eyeballs so I dont have to work too hard to "educate" the kids"?

Any teacher pushing meds for an ADHD child before they try accomodations in the classroom is a bad one in my book. The meds arent the best solution for these kids, they only learn to take a drug not to handle thier disability adn the drugs only work to a certain point and the drugs dont work on all children. If the drugs dont work or the child gets too much stim the drugs will stop working. How does the child handle that if they havent been taught coping techniques? The answer is they dont.

Teachers , stop pushing ADHD drugs and look to your class rooms to assist ADHD students. the accommodations needed for ADHD will also help those who do not have ADHD. One focal point in the class room (chairs face front, use a chalk board,etc), less stim environment, and make sure the kids understand what you are teaching before moving on and teach with structure not hippy chick style. the playground is the place to work on their peer to peer interactions, not at their desk by arranging them in social circles. The desk is for education and learning so they should all face the teacher!

Well said Genenut, I agree.

My son had ADHD. He is 9 and going into 4th grade. I have worked with his teachers every year and monitor his sleep and his diet. He is not medicated. His teacher last year adored him. And although he may have been sitting on his feet or changing position in his chair while he was working, he has learned to stay on task. He works hard at it and it can be frustrating some times, but he is not any more of a disruption than the other students in the class. He has been taught to also be extremely polite and well mannered and his teachers love that. He is the first to volunteer and the first to say please and thankyou.

His behavior is controlled through a very strict routine. He gets up and goes to bed at the same time each day. He is limited on sugar and caffeine as well as preservatives, steroids in food and red dye. All of which can add to hyperactivity. He also participates in sports year round (wrestling, baseball and football) In his free time he plays outside to run off as much energy as he can.

I love my sons personality and have seen far too many cases where the child is medicated and their entire personality changes. If his behavior takes a turn for the worse or we have additional issues I will re-evaluate the decision not to medicate him, but for now, I am happy with that choice.

160 out of hundreds of millions does not matter on a national scale. Of course, it does matter to the individuals affected. However, I would hardly call this an important societal problem worthy of national attention.

As for ADHD, I believe that is a modern invention that simply provides a clinincal definition of "squirrely kid." The number of kids being medicated based on a diagnosis of ADHD clearly IS a problem worthy of national attention.

DJMO - you should not be teaching. ADHD is over diagnosed and is more fiction than fact. Its a good excuse for children to be disruptive and their parents buy into it. The children Ive seen with ADHD, just need their butts spanked and few rules put into place. But the parents dont have the backbone or the intelligence to cure their own child by being parents.

ADHD is a manipulation by the pharmaceutical companies to sell drugs. Drugs for kids, what a concept!!!! The more you give labels, the more people understand----oh yeah right

DMJO, you are as bad as the lazy parents that put their kids to sleep with whatever in order to give themselves a break. You want to make kids easier to control because you evidently don't know how to do it yourself. Do the students in your town a favor by changing occupations.

I'm speaking from personal experience some 50+ years ago when they still hadn't coined the terms "hyperactivity' or "ADHD". I can recall being disruptive in class along with other kids but on each occasion a teacher asked me a question trying to catch my inattention, I always had the correct answer. Although I did not realize that I had ADHD until much later in my life, it did not prevent me from maintaining a B average in H.S., graduating from college in four years, serving as an officer in the USAF and having a successful career afterwards.

Good for you, Michele and Gene, you have said what needs to be said about the subject. The one thing that you didn't say is that the real culprits are corporate pharmaceutical "pushers" of psychotropic drugs turning Americans into mental midgets.

So a good spanking and tighter rules is the cure? Really? I am a bipolar adult who was diagnosed w/ hyperactivitiy back in the late '70s. I got plenty of spankings, with a leather belt, from a frustrated father who weighed in at 6'5" and 270lbs. He beat me like a drum daily and it never cured me. It wasn't until a failed suicide attempt that I received any counseling and medication (my doc opted for Lithium, yuck). The meds made me feel like I was in a fog and on a 5 minute delay from the real world. It also kept me from acting out against myself and others long enough to recognize my triggers and symptoms and build a plan to improve my emotional self control.

Is ADHD over diagnosed? Yes, I would agree. Is the solution for a consistently mercurial, volatile personality corporal punishment? Only if you want that child to return the favor when they're old enough to. After all, what example have you set? That the answer to frustration with others is to physically attack them- sounds more like breeding a future criminal than being a good parent.

The real solution is to use the meds when necessary as a temporary tool to buy enough time to make an impact thru counseling. One without the other is useless. Too many parents think meds are the final step instead of seeing them as only one part of the cure. Lithium may have kept me alive, but it's the tools to recognize and control my emotions that I learned in counseling that have kept me out of jail, happily married and a productive, even if a little weird, member of society.

DJMO

Since when does a teaching credential come with MD diagnostic capablities.

I don't know where you teach, but I sure hope it's not at my child's school!

How dare you interpret an elementary school kids natural hyperactivity as ADHD.

If you feel someone in your class has problems you should talk to your Principal and the child's parents if they are disrupting the class above and beyond normal behavior.

My husband was dragged from doctor to doctor as a child medicated with every ADHD drug that was available in the early 70s and 80s. He has never gotten over this - he has chronic insomnia, a phase shifted sleep pattern so severe that he now genuinely needs provigil to stay awake all day. We both wonder exactly what damage the ritalin and all the other drugs he was given did his developing brain, let alone other long term effects. There are no studies of how these drugs impact people in the long term. My mother in-law even had the nerve to comment "Oh are you going to be a hyperactive child" to our daughter when she was 5 weeks old! Why? Because she was holding her head up and was very alert even then. The first time a teacher suggests we medicate our child will be the last time that teacher has anything to do with her - teachers are teachers they are not pediatricians or child psychiatrists and have no business diagnosing children.

DJMO

Wow, I agree with most of the posts in this conversation, the ones that say you are a horrible teacher if you just want to medicate your kids. Ive noticed most of the people I am in contact with that have kids on ADHD meds are innattentive parents with very smart children. Kids need mental stimulation, structure, discipline. ONLY after all of these avenues should a medication even be considered.

You are the type of teacher I pray my son does not have to deal with. The type that wants to show up at the school, work your 9-5, and never have to "try" with your challenging students. Shame on you

I think everyone is jumping on DJMO with out really understanding where she/he maybe coming from. I think that medicating children just because is never the answer. I applaude all the parents that took the additional work and changed their childs diet and routine etc... but lets be real here some parents can't do that. And the ones that can't are not lazy or don't care they are trying to work to keep a roof over their childs head and food on the table. Sometime they are working two jobs to accomplish that. Sure there are lazy parents but to assume that every parent is that way is just wrong. I had a cousin that was medicated for ADHD and it was like he was a diffrent child he has since finish school with honors and is college bound. DJMO is right that as a teacher with 30 students and you have one child that is a distraction that you have to deal with that first before you are able to ever start teaching. Are their ways for teachers to change things up to make things better sure. But again when schools are closing faster than you can blink and class room sizes are growing school budgets shrinking its not that easy. Teachers have the hardest job there is, but get paid the worst. There was a time when being a teacher was a bid deal now college graduates don't see the value in it. I would walk lightly before I slam a teacher because after all they are helping your child to grow up and become a productive citizen.

Being a counselor I would say that ADD or ADHD is over dianosed. ADD and ADHD symptoms also mimic symptoms of depression, bipolar disorder or PTSD (to name a few!). I also realize how much a kid who cannot concentrate in school takes away from other children who don't display those symptoms. I don't know if Michelle's child suffers from ADD but I can understand why Michelle has not put him on medication. Psychotropic medications are not well tested on children, or if they are, the testing is paid by the drug company who skews the data. I worked a case were a 3 year old was on 23 different psychotropic medications that are nomally used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder all because the child was severaly neglected and wanted attention. She wasn't acting homicidal, suicidal or psychotic and I could see no reason for her to be on Respirdol or Zydis. Teachers often believe they are diagnosticians who give a child the ADD or ADHD label because they simply don't understand what is going on with a child who displays a lack of attention and/is restless and the teacher is fustrated with the child. Keep up what your doing Michelle! Don't let any teacher tell you you are raising your child wrong.

To Showmeman-

Maybe the reason 90% are issued in the US is because we are less than 20 % of the population, yet have the one of the highest rates of access to Western style pharmacies. The drugs aren't distributed into South America, Central Asia or Africa, for instance, where large populations are located but don't have practical access.

It could also be that the social and physical/medical conditions that lead to ADHD are a result of some harmful stimulus common in Western lifestyle (too much is just about right), nutrition (processed foods) or inadvertant exposure to chemicals (detergents, pesticides, etc). It doesn't make it a conspiracy.

As for the whole teacher/student concern, unfortunately an elementary school home room teacher on average probably spends more time directly interacting with their students than the parents do in the evening. The teacher doesn't prescribe the meds, but if they are recommending it to the parents there may be a good reason. The parents are the next step in observing the child and analyzing any relevant behavior parents. If the parents agree, or if the child is in danger of causing a longterm issue (criminal behavior, being held back or expelled from school due to the symptoms reported by the teacher, etc), then the next step is to take the child to a PSYCHOLOGIST to determine if the behavior is a result of immaturity or if it is indeed dysfunctional. If the psychologist determines dysfunction, and the parents agree, then the process of teaching the child to control their destructive impulses is introduced. If the parents and psychologist feel that the child will likely continue act out unacceptably during the introduction of these programs, then a psychiatrist may be called in to analyze whether there is an opportunity for pharmacology to serve as an effective tool in acheiving the primary goals. It's never a matter of convenience to the parents, or anyone else for that matter.

Any longterm medication needs to be closely supervised and re-evaluated regularly. Although some people may required to be medicated for a substantial period, even for life, the goal should be for the child to obtain the tools necessary to recognize the symptoms of their condition proactively and implement these learned methods to function free of constant personal conflict.

Wow, gotta say I think everybody needs to get off DMJO's back. He only suggested an evaluation. He said Michelle's child "may" benefit from treatment. He didn't recommend that the whole student body be medicated, in fact, his comment made a lot of sense. An individual manic, bipolar, or ADHD child is a huge distraction in a classroom setting, and the pitfalls of allowing it to recur over time are wide reaching and can affect the entire class.

There is a difference between a child acting immaturely or being a pain and a child who is physically unable to control their emotions. ADHD is as real as Autism or Diabetes. The impact on the child's quality of life and the family's overall happiness is not something to take lightly.

That was intended to say "less than 2% of the population," let the grammar-cop dogpile commence.

Jo -

My mother in-law even had the nerve to comment "Oh are you going to be a hyperactive child" to our daughter when she was 5 weeks old!

I hope she doesn't encourage the child to become hyperactive. Very young children are so quick to pick up on subtle expectations.

Hyperactive... I hate that term. What a strange thing to say to a baby.

I agree that everyone needs to get off DJMO's back. I also agree that it is likely that children are overdiagnosed with ADHD. We had my daughter tested years ago because she literally could not focus on her homework at all without constant redirection. Not only were we told that she had ADD, we were also told she had a significant learning disability in math. I know I was devastated by the diagnosis. However, we were a little skeptical since she had always done well on yearly SAT's given by the school in all subjects. Many years later when she was excelling in AP Calculus, we finally asked her about the test; and she said that she had gotten bored and angry with the whole thing and had just started pushing buttons at random. The ADD diagnosis had not proven to be accurate either. That does not mean that there are not kids who really do have ADHD, however. I've personally known kids who were treated for other conditions like depression who made amazing recoveries.

By the way, we did not use any ADD meds. Her MD was into natural stuff like herbs and vitamens, and she only actually used those for maybe a year or so.

@DJMO

Teachers like you are exactly the reason why I was concerned about sending my child to kindergarten last year. Fortunately, our wonderful school system does not hire teachers with small minds.

I really hope you meet with a parent that rips you a new one, you need to be put back in your place.

I agree with everything you have posted.

If kids are "absolute angels" in the classroom, but annoying or otherwise disruptive at home, then they do not have ADHD. Kids who truly have ADHD cannot control themselves anywhere. Others who have selective behavior problems are reacting to an environment and do not need medication. DJMO was referring to kids who truly have ADHD, and yes, medication would truly improve their lives.

How many kids have ADHD? Why only American kids? Why so many drugs? Why such powerful drugs? The FDA reccomends that children on meds for ADHD be re-evaluated at least twice a year. The evaluation is suppose to include a complete Detox of the drugs to see how the child is doing. Guess what doesn't happen?

Wow DJMO.... you make it sound like any middle school kid that shows any signs of hyperactivity should be checked immediately for ADHD and given medication? And you're qualification is that you are a middle school teacher? It's safe to say that you have some sort of medical background on ADHD. Heaven forbids if a kid can be kid at times.

It's safe to say that you have some sort of medical background on ADHD

LOL

Probably up close and personal. At the very least, he's beginning to sound a tad hysterical.

I think one of the worst things that had happened in recent history is that the Pharm co's were allowed to start advertising again on television. Have an issue? Take a pill. Depressed, have a pill etc. Anyone ever listen to the sode effects and warnings? God, can lose your liver, throat swell up, etc.

The close second is allowing teachers to diagnoses ADD or ADHD. That's where the "give a kid a pill really kicked in.

No teacher is qualified to diagnose these conditions. Hard enough for a DR, let a lone a teacher.

Giving the kids a chill pill really kicked in from the schools. wrong wrong wrong.

Sorry jwhite1083...I for one won't swallow your reasoning or your justification for it. Parents who intentionally or unintentionally do something to harm their child (or anyone's child, for that matter) are guilty of abuse...or at the very least, neglect.

Anyone can be a parent, unfortunately. Its harder to get a driver's license than to be a parent.

The problem here is what seems to be society's belief that being a parent is a 'right' and not a 'responsibility'.....getting pregnant and having a child just to have an identity or purpose in life..... Who knows? Just seems to me that in the past 10-15 years, having a child is something that a lot of our children see as something they 'have' to do...whether or not they should.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if you place the most important job in society into the hands of naive, uneducated, inexperienced, unmotivated, and sometimes just plain ignorant children, these things are bound to happen.

Sad, isn't it....that the 'nut doesn't fall far from the tree' - this disturbing trend will probably get much worse before it gets better.....

"Sorry jwhite1083...I for one won't swallow your reasoning or your justification for it. Parents who intentionally or unintentionally do something to harm their child (or anyone's child, for that matter) are guilty of abuse...or at the very least, neglect"

That's overly harsh, Jet. You are not making the allowance that mistakes happen. It's called an accident. It isn't negligence or intentional. The most educated and well meaning parent can have a situation arise that they simply had no foresight of. We can try to minimize them all we want, but mistakes do happen. You've either never been a parent or were extremely lucky that your children never had an accident of any kind.

I am a baby proofing maniac, and I ALMOST overdosed my child with a prescribed medicine simply because the directions weren't clear. Thankfully, I called her pediatrician and verified, which led to a moment of panic on her part. She also choked (turning blue) on a piece of strawberry as a toddler. Again, thankfully I knew what to do from the classes I took, but it was still a moment of terror. I could have lost her on either occasion.

There is a clear difference between abusing parents and parents that obviously made a mistake. JWhite was making the note that some parents do not have all the information necessary to be able to avoid those moments that arise unexpectedly. It's not intentional or neglectful, it's called an accident. The idea of more education is right on, not punishing people for their ignorance when it's too late.

what a lame uninspired comment......

Hey if the government is paying for it, theres always a no mind doctor who will take the money, thus, Dr Yin.

2 out of the 160 died. The study found upwards of 1000 kids who had been poisoned. Out of those 1000 or so, 18 total died.

Good for you and your parents. I had 4 sons, 2 diagnoses ADHD. One was medicated and one wasn't for different reasons. Both did well. It definately depends on the child.

Ihave no issue with parents or kids who choose to be medicated by thier own choice. Its the teachers who first ask a parent of these kids, have you tried medication, like its the wonder one size fits all cure for ADHD. Too many teachers push medication first rather than accomodation and the medicine unfortunately does not work for all. My son tried them ALL and even a few off label and none really worked for him. Trying to get the school to accomodate him has been more than just an uphill battle. They only seem to want to medicate the kids, not accomodate them.

Genenut - teachers will find any excuse for their deficiencies. One teacher put my son through tests, psychiatrists, and tried to label him, learning disabled, which the school receivbed money for LD students. The psychiatrist found my son was perfectly normal, the problem he said, is the teacher, she's lazy and cant compensate for your expectations as parents. The teacher is a bigger problem than my son. She did not know how to teach, goal set, and instruct kids. She was a former nun, who got pregnant and was kicked out of the nunnery - go figure, they put her in as a teacher. Brilliant!!!!!

Rebecca, you rock! Your post was the best I have seen in a very long time!! I have two boys (both ADHD), and I do medicate one of them. The other responds well to non-medication interventions; at least for now. I resisted medication at first as I am a medical researcher in the drug abuse field and know well the pharmacology of these drugs. It took some time to adjust the medication, but it has changed his life for the better; academically and socially.

Amen. I am more concerned with these 20oz Monster Drinks, etc, than pharmeceuticals prescribed by a physician.

We medicate my son for his depression (which is VERY common in ADHD kids) but choose not to medicate the ADHD as none of the regular drugs work to help him with it. You can choose to medicate the 2nd issues and not the ADHD..

I was also diagnosed with ADHD. Then I was medicated. For a year my parents watched me become a zombie. My grades improved nominally, but as a person I was a shell of my former self.

That was in the sixth grade. I don't remember exactly what my IQ score was when I was that age but I'm thinking around 140-something.

I never went to college. Now I am a land surveyor and have even taught at university.

You didn't have a learning disability, you're just lazy. And if it took you three tries to pass an Algebra course you should probably go and take another IQ test.

Please. A 150+ on the American Mensa Admission test puts you in the triple 9 society or the OATH society. Which I highly doubt if you couldn't pass algebra.

Confederate Son - A 140 + IQ is the range of physics and math professors. Again. Please.

People should be forced to post results of obvious hyperbolic b.s. they expound on web posts.

I said when I was in the sixth grade and I took a battery of tests. I saw the results again a few weeks ago and thought to myself "I doubt I'm that smart".

IQ tests are not just cognitive learning, they involve many aspects of mental development and are quite subjective. Many "intelligent" people show a marked propensity for creativity and artistry. Few, if any, of these people would be teaching math or physics.

Perhaps if you would like I can scan and post those results sometime. But, like I said, I have taught at university in my particular field, a field that I am well-versed and quite accomplished in.

Anyone with half a brain (you included) should know that knowledge without the temperance of wisdom is akin to udders on a bull - useless.

What does ADHD has to do with not going to college? Sounds like maybe you were hanging out with the wrong crowd in high school, cutting class and trying to have a good time. Hey, I had a hard time focusing on lots of things growing up but that's because I was kid and sometimes as a kid we have the attention span of a puppy. My folks didn't medicate me but they were on my case everyday making sure that I can be the best that I can be. And no, I didn't go to college and not because of that, it was because I just couldn't afford it. And now I'm a middle aged person, with a great paying job, my own house on an acre of land and I owe this NOT to drugs to calm me down but to my parents

The best medication for many ADHD patients, is building confidence. Confidence is a great medication. Ive seen ADHD patients and if you give them a small task, let them succeed and praise them, then tell the story in their presence of how good of a job that person did. It works wonders, one mom told me she took her daughter off of medication and has repeated my philosophy with great results. ADHD people need stern direction and confidence. They need to know they can succeed and not use the ADHD as a crutch.

Granted there are genuine cases of ADHD, but theres more than medication to overcome the problem.

I am a paramedic and was a psychology major, so I have seen lots of this and have developed some theories.

Confederate Son and Jimmy G-

How did you come to the conclusion that mohican was lazy or hanging with the wrong crowd? You don't know sh1t about them!

Just because you don't believe ADHD can be an obstacle doesn't make it so- you're opinion and reality are completely independent of each other. One does not depend on the other.

ADHD kids are frequently called "smarter" than their peers BECAUSE OF THE CONDITION. The ADHD brain is causing the affected person to work harder than someone who is able to concentrate normally to acheive the same goal. It may take 2-3x more effort for a child with ADHD to acheive the same grade. Yet many/most do exactly that!

If a one-legged person could run as fast as a person without physical limitations you'd be impressed, right?? But the truth is, as you get into more and more demanding scholastic settings the peers can "run" faster and faster. Eventually it can become a true obstacle to continuing education or employment.

Both of your comments made me think of petty school yard bullies.

It is very possible for someone to have a 150 IQ and not pass algerbra. IQ does not measure what a person can acheive in school, its measure a person's intelligence quota. I had this friend in college who was a mensa candidate who could not do simple arthimatic. I also dated another mensa candidate who was totally inept when it came to social skills.

I have had 2 IQ tests, one in elem school -- score 156 and one in HS -- score 151, both done by psychologists my parents took me to see to try to find out what my problem was. I don't care if you all believe me or not. I am actually ashamed of the fact that I am smart and have been blessed with intelligence that I have done nothing with. It is embarrassing that so many people have done better with less.

I must apologize. I have just been back through my records (such that they are) and it (my IQ) appears to have been between 115 and 120 (superior to very-superior intelligence) when I was tested in the 4th Grade and not "140-something" as I originally published.

If that changes anyone's opinion of me (which I find doubtful) then I am sorry.

Need a tissue?

You're an idiot

barbara, what about all the bamboozled, new-age idiots that presume to have all the answers?

Barbara there isn't a blood test for Alzheimer's either but it also exists. MRI tests can show ADHD and Alzheimer's. Please post what ever school district you work in so we can report your view points to the school administrator for your district. You should not be working with children who are coded for ADHD if this is your viewpoint. You have most likely violated their ADA and FAPE rights and should have your teaching certification pulled. Its time to retire Barbara.

Under this line of thinking, there is also no such thing as depression, anxiety disorders, any mental health issue, Migraines, IBS or Fibromyalgia (to name a few). There are plenty of health problems that do not show up in a person's blood. Science is still advancing in the field of neurotransmitters, but mapping the brain is beyond the reach of science so far.

I call shenanigans on your argument.

Barbara, you have good points, however depression has no blood test and there are true ADHD people, but now it has become a crutch and label that teachers like, that gets them off the hook.

ADHD is over diagnosed, by choice, by parents, by teachers.

Wow- paranoid!

You cannot get a blood test that shows depression, Alzheimer's and several other diseases so therefore if it isn't inthe blood it isn't real. I think you need to take some biology classes and re learn some things.

Your argument is way off. I experienced a family member go through the stages of Alzheimers and every blood test that was taken never showed the disease. I know of people who suffer from depression and their blood tests never showed this disease. These diseases are in the brain and we haven't even begun to start the mapping of that incredible organ.

There's no test for Lupus, no test for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, no test for Fybromialgia...

alicia,danwill,genenut,et.al who insist on believing in that there is a biological marker for ADHD - i suggest you do a little studying. NIH and NIMH themselves have admitted there is NO biological marker for ADHD, including MRIs. you probably still believe in the left/right brain myth that even the doctor who originated it has retracted. we have unfolded the neocortex and seen the interconnectedness of it. Ooops! there goes the whole bipolar industry. Depression? get a life. only you can make yourself unhappy. UNLESS - there is a biochemical imbalance in the brain. Ahh! then chemical intervention is called for. this is rarely tested however. behaviours are used to diagnose. unfortunately most ADHD victims are boys (80%) or live in lower socio-economic areas (some school districts 0-3% vs. 40%-this is biological?). Boys are biologically different from girls in many ways and too many teachers do not bother studying how. Danwill? - new-age? you would laugh if you knew me.

I can't believe you think only problems that show up in a blood test are real. Mental issues don't show up in blood test. Unbelieveable!

Barbara, if you honestly believe the crap you just wrote..........then you were a failure of a student in college. Almost positive all schools require a general psychology class. With that how could you look at all the evidence and testing that has been done for years, which shows all of that exists, and still say those things. Personally, I think you are completely full of crap. I don't think you are a teacher, I don't think you have ever been properly educated, and I think you listened to a dumbass at some point in your life then decided he was speaking gospel. I think you should take a tour through some mental rehabilitation facilities and take a look at some of the people there. Not to mention I have a close friend who suffers from bipolar and my grandfather suffers from it. If you were to ever say something like that, or I heard someone say something like that, in front of me I would break protocol and hit a bitch.

Barbara, post the school you work for. Your opinions interfer with your ability to teach. Its time for forced retirment.

FYI Bipolar is a chemical imbalance and has nothing to do with the two sides of your brain. It used to be called manic depression as the person swings from the two polar opposites of mania and depression. Your appalling lack of knowledge of this very real disability is frightening when combined with your claim to be a teacher. Please leave the teaching profession this summer if you are indeed a teacher.

I'm with you Barbara (to some extent). I believe that developmental disabilities and other challenges are the result of genetics, environment and history, prenatal exposure to drugs/alcohol or infections, prematurity at birth, and poor diet and health care of the mother or the infant, among a few other things. I believe that there is a difference in the way the brain functions and/or in the brain itself, in children and adults who are categorized as having a disability/disorder vs. someone who isn't categorized as having a disability/disorder. I believe to some extent, the labels are useful (in obtaining funding and services) and in identifying the needs of the individual. However, I also believe that there are serious problems with the DSM-IV. The criteria by which people are diagnosed significantly overlap (i.e., many diagnoses share the same criteria). Because of the overlap across so many conditions, practitioners have to use their best judgment when choosing one diagnoses over another. This leads to serious questions in the reliability and the validity of the diagnoses. I've worked in human services for ten years, and have rarely found the diagnoses useful. Treat people in a way that works, and use data to support the efficacy of treatments. I've seen medication be successful in some cases, but I think it should be prescribed based on debilitating symptoms, not based on a label or diagnosis.

And we are seriously off topic, sorry about that. I think the article simply pointed out the risks of using non-prescribed drugs for children. Nothing new. And it sparked a debate on the risks of prescribed drugs, also nothing new. I love reading the discussions. It's nice to see passionate people. People who are responsible and educated will make good decisions. People who aren't, won't. Be the responsible and educated ones, and do your homework when considering using any drugs for your children. And in my opinion....less or none, is more. Don't be too mean to me, for my off-topic rant.

Kara, Barbara doesnt believe any mental health diagnosis is valid. You may want to re read her fantasy postings before you post you agree with her.

What does child abuse have to do with abortion?

at the very least, they should be prevented from ever breeding again

of course, someone couldn't resist making this an issue about abortion

quick, someone blame a political party next!

I had the same revolting reaction from Confederate Son's post as you did! Little does Old Confederate know that he/she DID harm his/her son in ways he/she may never fully comprehend. ALL PARENTS ARE ALL IMPERFECT! Nobody comes out of childhood perfectly stable! It takes YEARS to shake off the phobias, ideologies, theologies and general all around QUIRKS of our parents.

We're ALL happy you loved your son, Confederate Son. We ALL happy you did your best to raise him "right." We're ALL happy to indulge your fantasy that your son escaped childhood without a scratch. But, PLEASE, spare us the you're better than them malarkey. Many parents don't see their actions as "poisoning" when they're following a medical professionals advise and directives. Most parents do NOT "poison their own children" in any way, shape or form, that they KNOW of.

As to your view of abortion, we're happy to indulge your right to believe what you will believe. However, could you not exercise just a little restraint when it comes to commenting on an article that AIN'T ABOUT THAT???!!!

Good LORD! The moral immoral minority is alive and unwell, AND SPEAKS OUT OF TURN!

My son is still in childhood. Reading responses like these make me wonder if your children survived to adulthood, if you even have children.

Otherwise, you can go fellate yourself.

Besides, we're talking about chemically-induced mind-control, not ideologies. More harm is done to the youthful mind in federal internment camps and liberal bastions known as "public universities" than by any other method and we pay billions of dollars a year in taxes to fund these institutions of disinformation.

I see from your acute case of Diarrhea-of-the-mouth that you attended one (or more) of the institutions and that the programming was a success. I'm sure your handlers are quite pleased with their work.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha

Keep talking... it just proves exactly how ignorant you are, Confederate Son. Your son isn't the only one who's in doubt of having survived to adulthood, as evidenced by your "go fellate yourself" and diarrhea comments.

I wonder if your son feels as proud of his pappy??

He's very proud. And you can remain content in the knowledge that your sense of humor was undamaged by the programming process.

I have to warn you, I consider it immoral to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent, so I'm afraid this will be the last you hear from me.

You're a pompous arse, Con-Fed! I invite you to do unto yourself as you would have others do unto themselves with respect to "fella-ting." Yes, PLEASE read into the words! How sub-mental you are! That you speak of your enomous pride is no surprise. That is typical for people who suffer from self-esteem issues in terms of over compensating for their short comings. You're also nothing more than a blowhard, no doubt a practice you perfected in the service! You are, categorically, REVOLTING!

Says the guy whose sole points of argument are insult and ad-hominem.

Typical and predictable.

P.S. - What "service"? I serve the Lord and NO ONE ELSE.

Ridilin, eh? You don't even know the proper trade name of the chemicals you're forcing on your child? Brilliant.

BTW, it's "Ritalin".

Ding ding ding...we have a winner!

"Ridilin" "Excellerated" "Induring".... ARE YOU FOR REAL??? I think I know the problem with your child. He hit the genetic lottery in terms of stupidity.

For starter it's "Ritalin". Next it's either "acclerated" (which would make no sense - his grades have started moving faster and faster?? or "excelled" (which would make sense). Finally, it's "enduring" from the verb "endure".

Acclerated [sic]

Which also makes no sense. Oops (?)

lol...yeah. obv i meant "accelerated"...hmmm...foot in mouth..

Lady, your son's ADA and FAPE rights were and probably still are being violated at school. Sounds like he was being bullied and discriminated against in school. I'm glad the meds worked for you and your son is better but what you described before the meds sounds like the kids and the teachers were abusing him verbally during school hours. Kids don't think they are horrible people unless adults tell them so. Please, for your son, investigate what the school was doing.

Lady, I don't know how to say this any more succinctly: Your son needs a whole LOT of psychological/psychiatric help, and I mean NOW!

Something is very, VERY wrong in his environment, and I would start with his social and school life. Well, make those areas FIRST, right after his home life.

His feelings of inadequacy and expressions of regret for being born are NOT "usual and customary."

I wish you much luck in helping your son develop more self-esteem, coping skills and general social skills. He's hurting and hurting badly!

Make sure you tell him that he can be anything he wants to be and that he attends "Everybody Gets a Trophy" day.

It is much less damaging to give children unrealistic expectations than to talk straight with them. Because good intentions always lead to good citizenship.

It is better...she has really excelled this year in school. I just think if we had put her on ADHD medication in the 3rd grade we could have helped improve her self-esteem and maybe she would have never attempted suicide. She was definitely one of the quiet and shy kids and she suffered in silence for so long before she began acting out. If I could go back in time I would.

Thank you for saying that lady-2047781! That was a great response to some ridiculous ignorance we unfortunately deal with on a regular basis. I've read some of those articles stating ADHD is all a hoax...and it will obviously NEVER convince me. I mean it's laughable because I'm dealing with the "make believe disorder"...at the end of the day there would have NEVER been a disorder developed after years of behavioral testing and observation if they found no common thread, no patterns. I have nothing more to add because you hit the nail on the head...it's pure comedy that people are still trying to "prove everyone wrong" because they read a couple articles or talked to one doctor.

I have been battling migraine headaches fore over 50 years and can completely sympathize. My first doctors told me there was no such thing as an headache, I just made it up in my mind. Fortunately today, MRI's can actually scan the migraine while it is happening and one now has empirical proof that a problem exists. Hopefully one day there will a test / diagnostic tool to prove what you already know to be true in your battle with chronic anxiety.

It's true that these conditions exist, but being Bi-Polar myself, I have to believe there are genetic and/or environmental contributors to these ever-growing illnesses, diseases, "isms" and disorders. I've got a memory and I USE it!

I know a young man who is ADHD. He never took medications and did fine throughout school and college. He's working in a management position with a stable company, and making a more than decent salary. However, this guy is a walking billboard for the disorder. He's CLASSIC!

Why? Where did all of this come from? Is it our environment as a whole? Is it the food we eat? Is it the water we drink? Is it our lifestyles of virtual confinement for fear of what's out there? Is it lack of creative play time as children? Is it STRESS? Is it too much stimulus in the form of television, Internet and cell phones? Is it a lack of real connectivity to real social outlets and other human beings? Is it lack of appropriate discipline or, possibly, heavy handed disciplinarians like my parents were?

Who can we go to for the drill down theory on this subject matter? I'm sickened that ANY parent would willfully harm any defenseless child. But the "why" of the overall matter STILL needs to be addressed. Maybe it's all captured in that one Bible passage that says something about the sins of the father being passed down to future generations (sic). Maybe we're just reaping what we've sown as a society. I wish I knew the answers to all of these questions, and I wish no one would ever stoop so low as to willfully harm their children.

I wish a whole LOT of things. . . .

Maybe Obama's heath care can sneak in a new law that has everyone sterilized at birth, then after taking your Parenting Test, proving you know wtf you are doing, then you get to have kids.

Very interesting thought. Would you mind if I used this idea if need be?

I have stated this exact thought several times over the years and have been called everything from a Facist to a Communist (opposite ends of the political spectrum).

This would never go over, many consider it a GOD given right to have children. It is your God given responsibility to help all children, not necessary be breeding them yourself.

A final note, sad though it is, the number is very tiny. We should spend more time talking about the millions of people who are taking good care of their children.

You should of seen it beefour. It wuz unconsciousable.

call edge wurkd four mee :D

(but it still don't type worth a bean)

I was pacificlly gonna point that out. It's rediculus!

That's actually how I weed out the boneheads that post nonsence. If a person can't take the time to properly communicate through their spelling....they probably never gave much thought to what they posted.

Nonsence [sic]

?

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Oh my God WHO CARES?! You're picking apart spelling mistakes!? Good God get a different hobby. It's spelling folks. Someone messes up a word and that makes them a bonehead? Jesus. And no, people probably don't take the time to look through their comments for errors because NO ONE THINKS people like you are going to weed through their statement and make hooked on phonics jokes. Grow up...is it really that funny? No one has to be mean in a stupid msn discussion, but really take your opinions to the next level guys...everyone cares...

Or because people have become so apathetic and anesthetized to poor grammar and spelling that they simply dismiss it as acceptable and thereby propagate the insipidness.

Yeah...that's it. I'm a proof reader and copy writer at a marketing firm and I notice spelling mistakes and correct them when I NEED to...but I'm not that annoying person who chimes in every time someone misuses a word..or stalks online discussion boards for mistakes...and then uses big words to try and seem smarter...get over it...it's just a discussion...there's no need to be insulting.

They have spellcheck...use it!

Sorry, however; that's the result of a WR90 teacher making his students correct their classmates writings.

It's not spelling mistakes we're talking about. It's not knowing the definition and actual usage of a word. This individual has heard "postpartum" spoken and misinterpreted it as "post pardon". Firstly, the individual obviously can't infer what "post partum" means. "Post" meaning after and "Partum" from "partus" meaning to bring forth. How anyone would think "post pardon" works in this context is clearly ignorant. Not stupid, necessarily. But definitely ignorant. That's the point. Misspelling a word when typing quickly is fine. Making up words or using them incorrectly on newsvine should bring ridicule and scorn.

Right...I guess I don't take that stuff NEARLY as seriously...nor do I read into WHY someone misspelled something...it doesn't offend me at all...and I still don't think it deserves ridicule OR scorn...because that's a very dramatic reaction over a misspell, regardless of your argument behind it.

I have found that people respond with about equal frequency to positive and negative reinforcement and I simply find, for me, that ridiculing others make me feel better about myself.

Quick - can you spot the sarcasm?

Seriously, if people are not made aware of their mistakes what are the odds they will correct them? I submit that they are far more likely to repeat-offend if they remain ignorant of their transgressions than if given the opportunity to make amends.

And, this particular little thread-within-a-thread has allowed a few smart-asses like myself to enjoy a little impromptu bash session on our less well-versed contemporaries.

I use big words because here I have few other outlets for them. They're really only "big" words to those with limited vocabularies and inhibited communication skills. Besides, "sardonic", "irrefutable" and "predilection" are difficult to fit into rock songs... which I also write. ;)

Making up words or using them incorrectly on newsvine should bring ridicule and scorn.

I have rarely been moved to agree with a statement with such haste. Bravo.

Rebecca,

I find it ironic that you are having a hissy fit and have posted 3 comments so far on how you don't take things too seriously... right, that's why you are SCREAMING in your POSTS about CARING too much about SPELLING and GRAMMER!

Grammer

Sic.

ConfederateSon:

Good catch! LOL!

Wow! Confederate Son, I hope you went this crazy over Palin's "refudiate" comment. For some reason, I would bet she gets a pass from you, right?

I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about, since I don't believe either one of your pathetic "big" parties would be worthy of even a moment of my time.

I knew it wouldn't be long before some self-glorifying, party-line towing kiss-ass brought up a former candidacy. It's almost a given when someone has nothing else of value to contribute.

Distraction and ad-hominem. Such clever and original debating tactics. Would you care to pull the race card next? Maybe screaming "Astroturf!" would satisfy your appetite for misdirection, hmm?

Who cares!!???