I have always found it hard to understand the elitist view by so-called "experts" that animals don't share, although on a different scale, the same fears and reactions we do. Considering how much more sensitive a dogs senses are, who are we to say they don't feel emotional pain to that degree as well. Many species other than ours have been shown to be emotional, ie the elephants mourning their dead. A pet mourning its missing master. Such arrogance is insulting to all that revere life in all its forms.
Not all working dogs are true working dogs. Working dogs from the same breed and bloodlines can range from totally wrecks with timid temperments to mentaly sound and unflappable. I know from my experiece with my dog breed - German Pinschers, that some are mental marshmellows and have problems adjusting to heavy demands, they make good pets for the right people. I've had other dogs that the more you throw at them, the more you challenge them mentally and psychially they more they love it. These unflappable working dogs trust their handlers and thrive on challenge. They can rebound from scares or stress situations unharmed and ready to work more.
More proof of this difference in mental strength of dogs is shown by Schutzhund training. It's very a demanding test for any dog and very few are able to pass successfully. Dogs that pass Schutzhund tests should be suitable for a wide variety of tasks: police work, specific odor detection, search and rescue, and many others. The purpose of Schutzhund is to identify dogs that have or do not have the character traits required for these demanding jobs. Some of those traits are:
Strong desire to work
Courage
Intelligence
Trainability
Strong bond to the handler
Perseverance
Protective Instinct
Schutzhund training tests these traits. Dogs are tested at various levels. The higher the level passed the higher trained and stronger the desired traits are. It also tests physical traits such as strength, endurance, agility, and scenting ability. The goal of Schutzhund is to illuminate the character of a dog through training.
Sounds like this poor Shepard is like one of my show dogs. He was always willing to do what I asked but his heart and mental adaptablity was just not there. He was far happier being in a low stress, quiet house as a pet then a show ring or "working". She would be far better served and used as a patrol dog on a State side base and not used as a combat working dog. And if that was not possible she should be allowed to become a pet of one of the Military dog Handler's families. No need to put her down for not having the right stuff. It's not her fault she was misidentified as a combat working dog.
For you posters who are not military savy...training a military dog to the level Gina was trained costs mega money and time. To put her down because she does not have the ability to adapt and recover quickly from trama and mental injury is wasting an otherwise good dog's life and taxpayers dollars. Just as with humans, some are able to handle more hell on earth then others.
I was never in combat - women were not allowed in combat zones when I served but I have had plenty of male friends who were. I was blessed with a empathetic nature and have been used as a sounding board many times. People need that they are working out a personal stress issue. Talking can sometimes be more helpful then a handfull of pills in helping someone recovering from PTSD.
Only those who have been in the thick of battle with the terror, the noise, the smells and the carnage can truly understand what a combat soilder and combat dog have gone through. Combat dogs have saved thousands of service members lives. They have abilities we humans are sorely lacking. The combat dog deserve respect, care and understanding. A combat dog can't tell us they are overloaded except by their actions - cowering, hiding, tail tucked, etc. A good dog handler should have spotted her stress level was ramping up long before she reacted this point. Then again, it is war in a time of limited resources so he may have been told by his supervisors to shut the f**k and get her back to work or was his warnings and attemps to help her early on was blown off by the High Command. We on the outside don't know the full story of Gina and her handler's efforts.
The Washington Elite can rename it anything they want to make it combat sound a kinder, gentler and acceptable to the rest of the world - WAR is Hell on normal e on the outside don't have the full story.men and women and animals. Combat folks and animals REALLY need understanding, time and help adjusting to being back in the world after spending days on end enduring the horror of being in country during a time of armed conflict.
Kitty - I understand your post totally. I've seen animals do everything you mentioned and then some.
When my father died at age 49 from a heart attack our Pekingese-beagle mix, Sheba, morned for him for months. You could just tell by her body langauge and her expression. One day, a few months after he was gone it was time to do the dreaded task of cleaning out his personal items. Goodwill came and collected the useable items. He had been working on painting the house, began to feel bad so had come in to shower. As he was getting dressed after the shower when the heart attack hit full force. We had just shoved all the items he had been wearing in the closet after we came back from the hospital. Emotions were to just too raw and the grief too harsh to worry about simple things like dirty clothes on the floor in the closet.
Sheba found a dirty sock he had worn while the Goodwill crew and family friends helped with the task of removing his items. She grabbed that sock and wandered around the house, crying and whimpering for all she was worth. She went to every room with that sock in her mouth and looked everywhere she could for him. When she still could find him she laid in the corner for hours with that sock under her nose or in her mouth as she mourned some more. Don't tell me dogs don't morn.
I had a wonderful little German Pinscher named Baby. She suffered a spinal cord stroke . When we had to leave her at the Vet ER while the Tech worked to stabilize her over night, I left my shoe and sock in the crate with her. She loved to sleep with one of my shoes as a pillow. Despite the pain medications and her not understanding why we were leaving her there she managed to sit up and drag her useless back end to the crate door. I never knew dogs could cry tears but there she was - tears rolling down her face as she pleaded with me in her doggie way to take her home.
So, you see, I do know what you are talking about.
I pray for this brave dog, she was in just as much danger as our wonderful soldiers. God bless all of the people who are taking care of her and hopefully very soon all of our hero's won't need her to come back over there because they will be coming home themselves. I pray for this every night. God speed
Yes I am happy that the dog is doing better. I hope that they give our brave soldiers the care and treatment they also need when they too come back with PTSD.
She's a beautiful dog. If her trauma doesn't tell people that anyone involved in war, be they human or canine, must be treated with respect. I truly hope that she is allowed to retire from her work (don't even get me started on using dogs to sniff bombs - that's deplorable in its own right), and allowed to be adopted with a nice quiet family who appreciates her.
Kitty-1341278. Your comment was well received, accept for your introduction. I don't understand why these posts are so often used to attack or criticize some "other" group. Can't we just comment on articles and how they make us feel, or what we find interesting about them, without trying to always attack another group? I don't know who the "elitists" or "experts" are that think animals don't have emotions. Even though I'm not a pet person, I fully agree with you that it seems animals probably have many of the same sensitivities that people do.
i am a dog lover having a dog ever since i was young, the last two i had were siberian huskys, ours have always loved kids but back to gina , i think she has served her time helping our service men out and think she deserves the time to retire at home with her handler who she she has been with all the time and live out the rest of her life in peace with out of the fear of being hurt anymore! i would take her anytime
I sincerely hope with all of my heart that they do not send this poor dog back to Iraq!! It's done its service to this country, now let it live peacefully.
So glad to see the dog is recuperating and getting the help it needs. You never hear of things happening to animals but I guess after all the dog has been thru , must have been terrifying !!! Good luck to the brave dog----one hero along with many others. Thank you to the Service men and women who give us freedom and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
Gina, "Thank You" for your loyal service and dedication to the American people and the world. Without fearless beings like you, our brave soldiers would not be able to perform their jobs efficiently. I am so sorry that you came home with fear and saddness in your heart. Just like our human soldiers it takes time to readjust to life. I pray with all my heart that you make a full recovery. You sound like a very loving and senitive being. Take one day at a time and move forward always. "Thank you for your service".
Guess what......IT'S AN FN' DOG!!! If it can't serve it's purpose then put it down. Dogs like this are not pets and need to be treated as tools, because thats what they are. Get over it.
Jake, while , in a twisted sort of way, you are right that she is just a dog and a 'tool' you are forgetting the bigger picture. Dogs have been part of human civilization for thousands of years. She was trained to perform a job, but she isn't just a malfunctioning rifle one tosses aside after it has done it's job. Research done by revered institutions such as the Max Planck institute in Germany have shown that dogs have human like instincts, behaviors and intuitions unlike any other animal. They couldn't even get chimps and other great apes to do what dogs are able to do. Does that make Gina human? Nope. Not one bit. But I think she is closer to it than you clearly can ever hope to be.
Wow Jake what a stupid comment. Wouldn't you hate that if your wife or someone said that about you? There is no need to put this dog down. Send this dog to a good home to live out it's life.
Guess what...... YOU'RE AN FN' JERK!!! If you can't serve your purpose then let's put you down. People like you are not human and need to be treated as tools, because thats what they are. Get over it.
Gina... you did your duty to the best of your ability. I say we send 'jerk'.. I mean 'Jake' to take over your job!
jusmyopinion, we can't send Jerk, errr Jake because he would get soldiers killed while Gina protected them and saved their lives. But I think a tour of duty over there might get him to rethink his statements.
Jake - I'm going to guess that you don't have pets, and I am sorry for you. Too bad, because you'll never know the great love that those sentient beings have for their humans, wheather owner or handler. I hope for your well being that you, at some time in your life, can come to know that kind of love and affection. I am happy to hear that Gina is getting the love and care she deserves and has earned. I also feel that Gina has earned the right to live the balance of her life in peace. I hope that she, as well as any other soldier, does not have to go back to that part of the world. Let us all pray for peace.
Jake must have future vision. How else would he know that the dog had served its purpose? Or maybe the dog's purpose is to go to a great home with loving humans and make them happy every day when they come home from work, take walks with them and protect them from scorpions and snakes. Just because the dog had a job, it doesn't define her as a dog - it was just what the humans made her do. No more than acting like an ass defines you as a human - or at least I hope it doesn't.
Jake/Jerk - You poor soul, what a hateful life you must live. Yeah obviously you've never had a pet, but might have been one of those very sick puppies who torture animals, because to make the comment you made makes you rather subhuman. My, my aren't we so macho with your comments....no doubt you are a total loser, thinking your comments make you one tough man...all it does is show what a loser moron you are.
I think you should be put down you heartless @!$%#! You are a prick and deserve to be beat down! That dog is a service dog to this country and should be respected, honored and allowed to retire from service. Every creature should be able to enjoy life, even you, but you need training started with a beating!
Id like to add also, I have never served my country like this and my hat is off to all service men and women and yea dogs. But I would love to serve my country by beating your ass Jake.. I live in Hortonville Wisconsin and would love,, ABSOLUTELY LOVE to meet you and beat you the the brink of death you dickhead @!$%#! You are a parasite and I'd love to smash your little bug ass! You have me so friggin mad! I know people like you that have no respect for animals, yous are really sorry beings! God I wish you were here in front of me so I could teach you alittle respect and humility, I hope someone seriously beats your ass! @!$%# JERK!
Very dumb comment Jake. Gina does deserve special treatment. She didn't volunteer for the Army, she was drafted as a pup. I hate the fact that we take innocent animals and subject them to the worst in humanity. Then we seem to act suprised when the poor creature is actually frightened to death to participate in warfare anymore. To press her back into service overseas is a crime against her and against human decency. Gina is only a dog-leave her alone. To send her back into a combat environment seems to me to be animal abuse of the highest order. Let her live out her days on a nice peaceful farm somewhere. She has done more than her share for the Nation- leave her be. Are we so desperate that we need to send the wounded back into battle?
Jake, what a sad statement u made. I would suppose that all soldiers are a tool in some oppinions, so does that mean we should also put down the many brave soldiers that came back affected by PTSD? That would include my own son who has come back with it also. I think u need mental help if u truely believe that of any living creature, let alone one that has saved lives and preformed a duty most people couldn't handle themselves without some form of PTSD themselves. I do believe u suffer from something far worst then the disorder that this brave dog has.
Hey Jake: do you also like to pull the wings off flies in your spare time?
Oh, wait a minute, I've got it: you have it all figured out. The dog is faking it so she can go on disability, get food stamps and watch Jerry Springer all day. Jake, you're a friggin' genius!!
"IT'S AN FN' DOG!!! If it can't serve it's purpose then put it down."
Your Micheal Vick mentality lables you immediately as a major, inhumane fool. I wonder what purpose you have in life beyond being a Troll. And the way I see it being a troll is a pretty low priority purpose.
If you had an ounce of military experince or were well informed and perceptive you would know training a military dog to the level Gina was trained costs mega money and time. To put her down because she does not have the ability to adapt and recover quickly from trama and mental injury is wasting an otherwise good dog's life and taxpayers dollars. Just as with humans, some are able to handle more hell on earth then others. I was never in combat - women were not allowed in combat zones when I served but I have had plenty of male friends who were. Only those who have been in the thick of battle with the terror, the noise, the smells and the carnage can truly understand what a combat soilder and combat dog have gone through. I was blessed with a empathetic nature and have been used as a sounding board many times. People need that they are working out a personal stress issue. Talking can sometimes be more helpful then a handfull of pills in helping someone recovering from PTSD.
Combat dogs have saved thousands of service members lives. They have abilities we humans are sorely lacking. The combat dog deserve respect, care and understanding. A combat dog can't tell us they've reched a stress overload point except by their actions - cowering, hiding, tail tucked, etc. A good dog handler should have spotted her stress level was ramping up long before she reacted this point. Then again, it is war in a time of limited resources so he may have been told by his supervisors to shut the f**k and get her back to work or was his warnings and attemps to help her early on was blown off by the High Command. We on the outside don't know the full story of Gina and her handler's efforts.
The Washington Elite can rename it anything they want to make it combat sound a kinder, gentler and acceptable to the rest of the world - WAR is Hell on normal people and animals. Combat folks and animals REALLY need understanding, time and help adjusting to being back in the world after spending days on end enduring the horror of being in country during a time of armed conflict.
First, wrong response. Purely from a military logistics perspective, if a tool or piece of a equipment is damaged and can be repaired, you repair it. Cost effective, strategically and tactically sound. If a Hum-vee's steering is out of alignment, do you trash it? Nope. There is an immense amount of money invested in an animal like this. OF COURSE you "repair" the damage as much as possible.
Second, wrong attitude. We as a species of animal have domesticated another species. We have altered it, modified it, twisted it to our every whim. Destroying a for any reason except the lack of quality of life or imminent threat to others is unconscionable. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I hope you don't own a dog. If you do, it should be confiscated. You don't deserve it.
Guess what...... YOU'RE AN FN' JERK!!! If you can't serve your purpose then let's put you down. People like you are not human and need to be treated as tools, because that's what they are. Get over it.
Gina, you've done your duty... I'd like to see 'jerk'... I mean Jake sent over in your place.
As a dog trainer myself, if feels good to know that Gina's trainer/handler is doing a great job making sure that Gina is treated like a Dog and not like a human being. With a lot of respect for the animal and caring for it and loving it, this a great example how to understand the animal world. They are our best companions in many ways even with the most difficult situations. Bravo to Gina and her trainer/handler. Keep up the good work, time for a Treat! Both of you! Enjoy the good life!
Jake, I have a feeling that if you made that comment to that dogs handler, or any military dog handler for that matter, you would find yourself suffering a little tauma yourself. These dogs are considered partners. Not a tool.
This great milatry dog soilder is a American hero and should never go back to combat for Gina has served with honer,she can serve at bases but should never go back to combat,she did her duty to the fullest with honor,why they even said she would go back to combat makes me sick,let her serve here in America,since she has PTSD she should never go into combat again,like I said let her serve here in America at a base or other places,I still can not believe they said she may go back to combat-WTF are they thinking.I hope Gina heals up 100% and serve here in America.Gina the hero dog.
How lovely it would be that a soldier would serve their country and be done with their service. Dog or human a job well done is a job well done. Unfortunately this is not the case in a time of active war, which is what we are and have been in for some time. Here's the deal. She, along with everyother soldier (the human variety) have been trained to do a job, time and money has been spent in their training. They do their job and sometimes get injured, they are treated, rehabilitated and guess what, more time and money has been spent on said soldier. To just retire them or allow them to serve in a safe environment, because they have fulfilled their active service would seem logical. But we are in an illogical situation, and logic is cast aside. Would you not want the same luxury for a HUMAN soldier who has experienced the same trauma? This is not realistic.... IF she can be rehabilitated to be of good service, I know I sure want her back over there doing her job, which is to assist the HUMAN soldiers to do theirs.
Now then...that's my head speaking, as you can see by my name, I am speaking from experience, does my husband cower and tuck his 'tail' when he approaches and enters a building? Is he now uncomforatble around crowds of people?? Does he jump or startle at loud noises. You'd better believe he does...it's worst when he just returns from deployment and just about subsides when, you guessed it, he's deployed again. They don't/can't even take the time to fully rehabilitate our soldiers before sending them back out. Why? Because they can't afford to. Would you ever KNOW that my husband goes through ALL of this repeatedly upon returning? Not at all.... because he's an American Soldier, sworn to defend our nation against all enemies..foriegn and domestic. And that's what he does for each of you. I am the one to deal with the fall out, and I do...for you.
So...should Gina the dog be sent back into action once rehabilitated and trained with new coping measures, so that she can effectively do her job? You'd better believe it. She's not the only hero that comes back a little shattered, but she makes all the difference in helping the human heros who are expected to rejoin their units once they are deemed fit for duty.
Your logic is fine- if someone enlists, volunteers for and/or reenlists for duty. That is NOT what happens with dogs. They are pressed into service whether they like it or not while little more than pups. Gina didn't ask for or volunteer to participate in warfare. The whole damned situation is an imposition on her. Your husband can end the repeat tours by simply not reenlisting, so it is very much his own choice that sends him back. Not so for Gina- she never took any oath or promised anyone to serve. She has no duty (duty= self imposed obligation) to this Nation, merely a job and situation inflicted on her by us.
Right Merlin, and I say give her her freedom, if any dog deserves it, it would be her. Yeah it costs time and money to train these dogs, but they did their job and should be respected. If America has any heart this dog should be retired and fed the best food money can buy her, health care and all for her. I would rather know my tax dollars are being spent on something like this.
I believe there is a difference in humans and animals serving. Not only the things mentioned so far in comments, but also the thought process. A human being knows that their country is at war, the reasons the country is at war (sometimes), who the country is fighting, etc. Then humans make an educated decision to enlist in a military environment. Unfortunately animals are seen as less important and more expendable. They go to war not knowing what war is, not knowing who they are fighting or why.
You are all right...my husband and any other soldier joined of free will. They believe in the rights which we are all exercising here in this medium. Gina serves more than just as a bomb sniffing dog... she is a morale booster and comfort for the soldiers who are there. I didn't say put her down, I didn't say return her if she's not able to rehabilitate, though that is what we are doing with humans beings. The fact that a human can rationalize, reason and comprehend the situation does nothing to diminish the damage which is being done. And with regard to the dog not knowing what war is, who they are fighting or why.... there are quite a few young soldiers who really have the same amount of comprehension as Gina. She has a sense of loyalty, which is what many men and women have, not fully understanding what they will see or face while out there. And it's their willingness to face that, which prevents the remainder of us to sit back here safe, never having to see the truth of war.
True - Gina did not volunteer to be a combat dog. But keep in mind she is not like your Aunt Tillie's toy poodle or Uncle Bobby's Pug. She is not a sporting dog. She is not a hound nor is she a terrier. She is a working breed. That means she was bred for generations back to when ever to be a dog with a purpose beyond laying at the feet of their Alpha.
A true working dog must have something to do. If not given a purpose, they find things to do which often is things we humans don't approve of. Eat the sofa, herd the kids and the cat, chase cars, chew the carpet, etc.
I'd be a nervous wreck also if I was asked to enter a door right after a flash gernade had just gone off not to mention hearing the sharp crack of gun fire and smelling the blood, vomit and fear. She should never be subjected to combat again. She's done her time in hell. She should be used as an education dog for training new handlers or maybe used for a Elementary School Program. Something low key and far way from the noise and smells of explosives.
First off "Jake" you're an @!$%#! If you failed to perform your duties as prescribed, should we put YOU down?
That being said, there is an old adage that a society is guaged by the way it treats it's animals. This dog has done her service to this country. Let her heal in peace. I think it was Will Rogers (could be wrong) that said, "If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go"
Cesar Millan treated a case similar to this on his program last year - a bomb sniffing ATF dog that had been in either Iraq or Afghanistan and had come back traumatized. I hope this soldierly dog recieves the help she needs to fully recover. Even if she can't serve anymore, I hope she can have a good, peaceful life.
Jake you need a serious A$$ whipping by a highly trained soilder-a special forces soilder,your also a stupid so called human,you on the level of islamic muslim terrorist-scum,I would rather this dog live than you and your not man enough to go to the front lines of combat,your a coward and a asinine prick and have a IQ under 70.
I sort of disagree Kitty. I've never heard an "elitist" view by so-called "experts" that animals don't share emotions. Most people agree that animals feel emotion. However, check out Jake. He's no elitist; seems to be more of a carefree, heartless redneck!
Please don't insult rednecks, I was tempted to use words like that, he is below any "term" you could through at him. I agree with the person that wrote, " I'd rather see Jake put down then this dog"!
I think it's really sad that no one has brought up that this dog is getting better treatment for her PTSD than our human warriors do. I wonder how many fewer stories we would read about concerning skyrocketing suicide and homicide rates among soldiers if this kind of quality care was available.
The problem with humans and PTSD is the stigma attached to admitting you may have it, and thus, the reluctance of people getting treated for it. This is not so with the dog.
As a person with PTSD (from Gulf War 1), most sufferers don't really know that they have it. Most recognized that "something " is wrong, but it usually takes a meltdown to become aware what that "something" was. It took me 10 years before I realized my problems were PTSD. I am still in treatment. And for the Viet Nam Vets I know, average time for for recognition and seeking treatment: 30-35 years.
From my personal experience, at least in the Air Force, many of the medical groups are not trained to handle returning vets with physical or mental issues. The typical attention that is received is a quick computer survey followed MAYBE by a 15 minute visit with a doc. If you have issues, you'll be run in circles till frustration kicks in and you give up. I was personally denied mental health attention and it took a full year before i was seen for knee and back issues (which were bad enough that I could barely walk) upon returning from Afghanistan.
The stigma also extends to people who get PTSD from non-combat things, i.e. getting your ass whooped by your parents(like punching, kicking, choking, getting thrown into things, picked up by your hair/ears/neck, bruises,cuts, and repetition, not getting spanked for not doing your chores), or being abandoned, rape(not so much stigma there), fatal car wrecks, etc.
But you can get it from other events... I know noone was condemning it, but since you guys were on the topic of PTSD and stigmas and such, I just wanted to point that out too.
Just goes to show that animals can think, understand, fear, love, hate, know the difference and protect his best friend, man, without thinking twice about his own life. Animals need more protection from people who abuse them. A good jail time would make someone think twice about how they treat animals.
You all fell right into Jake's lap! People like him make outrageous posts just for the hope he gets the kind of respons he did here. In future, it would be better just to ignore idiots like Jake...posts like his do not merit our energies to respond. That said, Gina should never have to go back to Iraq, and should just be used to sniff out bombs in cars on domestic army bases if she's to remain an army dog.
I agree with you, whole-heartedly about Jake. If you click on his name you can see all of the idiotic inflamatory comments he has made for the last 6 months. I think that's the only rise he's capable of getting. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Jake is yet another trash-poster who would off himself if he didn't have the forum to spew his venom. What a sad sack. Euthanize Jake? Nah, waste of money. Too simple. Let him sit behind his computer in his underwear while he giggles at his outrageous posts. I'll bet he has never served one day in defense of his country.
Gina is a hero along with all her other service brothers and sisters. All my wishes for her continued recovery.
It blows me away they STILL use this particular breed of dog for this type of job. It has been my experience as a veterinary professional that german shephards are just scary. In my opinion these dogs don't have the right temperment for anything stressful.
I have been around many working dogs as I own a pet boarding facility and German Shepherds make WONDERFUL bomb sniffing/rescue/guard dogs! Their temperament was playful when not "on the job" and totally professional when it came time to "work".
That said - Many blessings to both Gina and her partner! How wonderful she is getting the help she needs while still being treated like a dog and not like a person as treating her like a traumatized person would just make her problems worse, not better. She, like some many of our other brave soldiers who came back with very real spiritual and mental wounds deserves any and all help, support and appreciation all of us can give them.
Honestly, I agree with Modern One. Because of inbreeding, a lot of German Shepherds nowadays have less than trustworthy temperaments. I've seen firsthand evidence of this. Personally, I think they should use (well trained, of course) pitbulls, instead. Contrary to "general opinion", pitbulls were actually bred to be more people friendly than most breeds, and they're absolutely fearless. They have gotten a bad rep because of unsavory characters making them vicious, but by nature, that's NOT their character at all...
This should be an example of what war does to some of our troops. This also should be an example of what more help could be done for our troops after they return, and not make this out to be a repeat of the Korean War. Oh, I'm sorry! The Korean Police Action!
I hope the oil is worth all of this. War kills and traumatizes not just man, but man's best friend as well. At least we're finally getting ready to leave, we'll see how long democracy lasts.
I have always found it hard to understand the elitist view by so-called "experts" that animals don't share, although on a different scale, the same fears and reactions we do. Considering how much more sensitive a dogs senses are, who are we to say they don't feel emotional pain to that degree as well. Many species other than ours have been shown to be emotional, ie the elephants mourning their dead. A pet mourning its missing master. Such arrogance is insulting to all that revere life in all its forms.
Not all working dogs are true working dogs. Working dogs from the same breed and bloodlines can range from totally wrecks with timid temperments to mentaly sound and unflappable. I know from my experiece with my dog breed - German Pinschers, that some are mental marshmellows and have problems adjusting to heavy demands, they make good pets for the right people. I've had other dogs that the more you throw at them, the more you challenge them mentally and psychially they more they love it. These unflappable working dogs trust their handlers and thrive on challenge. They can rebound from scares or stress situations unharmed and ready to work more.
More proof of this difference in mental strength of dogs is shown by Schutzhund training. It's very a demanding test for any dog and very few are able to pass successfully. Dogs that pass Schutzhund tests should be suitable for a wide variety of tasks: police work, specific odor detection, search and rescue, and many others. The purpose of Schutzhund is to identify dogs that have or do not have the character traits required for these demanding jobs. Some of those traits are:
Schutzhund training tests these traits. Dogs are tested at various levels. The higher the level passed the higher trained and stronger the desired traits are. It also tests physical traits such as strength, endurance, agility, and scenting ability. The goal of Schutzhund is to illuminate the character of a dog through training.
Sounds like this poor Shepard is like one of my show dogs. He was always willing to do what I asked but his heart and mental adaptablity was just not there. He was far happier being in a low stress, quiet house as a pet then a show ring or "working". She would be far better served and used as a patrol dog on a State side base and not used as a combat working dog. And if that was not possible she should be allowed to become a pet of one of the Military dog Handler's families. No need to put her down for not having the right stuff. It's not her fault she was misidentified as a combat working dog.
For you posters who are not military savy...training a military dog to the level Gina was trained costs mega money and time. To put her down because she does not have the ability to adapt and recover quickly from trama and mental injury is wasting an otherwise good dog's life and taxpayers dollars. Just as with humans, some are able to handle more hell on earth then others.
I was never in combat - women were not allowed in combat zones when I served but I have had plenty of male friends who were. I was blessed with a empathetic nature and have been used as a sounding board many times. People need that they are working out a personal stress issue. Talking can sometimes be more helpful then a handfull of pills in helping someone recovering from PTSD.
Only those who have been in the thick of battle with the terror, the noise, the smells and the carnage can truly understand what a combat soilder and combat dog have gone through. Combat dogs have saved thousands of service members lives. They have abilities we humans are sorely lacking. The combat dog deserve respect, care and understanding. A combat dog can't tell us they are overloaded except by their actions - cowering, hiding, tail tucked, etc. A good dog handler should have spotted her stress level was ramping up long before she reacted this point. Then again, it is war in a time of limited resources so he may have been told by his supervisors to shut the f**k and get her back to work or was his warnings and attemps to help her early on was blown off by the High Command. We on the outside don't know the full story of Gina and her handler's efforts.
The Washington Elite can rename it anything they want to make it combat sound a kinder, gentler and acceptable to the rest of the world - WAR is Hell on normal e on the outside don't have the full story.men and women and animals. Combat folks and animals REALLY need understanding, time and help adjusting to being back in the world after spending days on end enduring the horror of being in country during a time of armed conflict.
Kitty - I understand your post totally. I've seen animals do everything you mentioned and then some.
When my father died at age 49 from a heart attack our Pekingese-beagle mix, Sheba, morned for him for months. You could just tell by her body langauge and her expression. One day, a few months after he was gone it was time to do the dreaded task of cleaning out his personal items. Goodwill came and collected the useable items. He had been working on painting the house, began to feel bad so had come in to shower. As he was getting dressed after the shower when the heart attack hit full force. We had just shoved all the items he had been wearing in the closet after we came back from the hospital. Emotions were to just too raw and the grief too harsh to worry about simple things like dirty clothes on the floor in the closet.
Sheba found a dirty sock he had worn while the Goodwill crew and family friends helped with the task of removing his items. She grabbed that sock and wandered around the house, crying and whimpering for all she was worth. She went to every room with that sock in her mouth and looked everywhere she could for him. When she still could find him she laid in the corner for hours with that sock under her nose or in her mouth as she mourned some more. Don't tell me dogs don't morn.
I had a wonderful little German Pinscher named Baby. She suffered a spinal cord stroke . When we had to leave her at the Vet ER while the Tech worked to stabilize her over night, I left my shoe and sock in the crate with her. She loved to sleep with one of my shoes as a pillow. Despite the pain medications and her not understanding why we were leaving her there she managed to sit up and drag her useless back end to the crate door. I never knew dogs could cry tears but there she was - tears rolling down her face as she pleaded with me in her doggie way to take her home.
So, you see, I do know what you are talking about.
I pray for this brave dog, she was in just as much danger as our wonderful soldiers. God bless all of the people who are taking care of her and hopefully very soon all of our hero's won't need her to come back over there because they will be coming home themselves. I pray for this every night. God speed
Yes I am happy that the dog is doing better. I hope that they give our brave soldiers the care and treatment they also need when they too come back with PTSD.
AMEN to both comments!
She's a beautiful dog. If her trauma doesn't tell people that anyone involved in war, be they human or canine, must be treated with respect. I truly hope that she is allowed to retire from her work (don't even get me started on using dogs to sniff bombs - that's deplorable in its own right), and allowed to be adopted with a nice quiet family who appreciates her.
Kitty-1341278. Your comment was well received, accept for your introduction. I don't understand why these posts are so often used to attack or criticize some "other" group. Can't we just comment on articles and how they make us feel, or what we find interesting about them, without trying to always attack another group? I don't know who the "elitists" or "experts" are that think animals don't have emotions. Even though I'm not a pet person, I fully agree with you that it seems animals probably have many of the same sensitivities that people do.
i am a dog lover having a dog ever since i was young, the last two i had were siberian huskys, ours have always loved kids but back to gina , i think she has served her time helping our service men out and think she deserves the time to retire at home with her handler who she she has been with all the time and live out the rest of her life in peace with out of the fear of being hurt anymore! i would take her anytime
I sincerely hope with all of my heart that they do not send this poor dog back to Iraq!! It's done its service to this country, now let it live peacefully.
I agree, but...why are you referring to Gina as 'it'? Gina is a SHE not an it.
So glad to see the dog is recuperating and getting the help it needs. You never hear of things happening to animals but I guess after all the dog has been thru , must have been terrifying !!! Good luck to the brave dog----one hero along with many others. Thank you to the Service men and women who give us freedom and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
Gina, "Thank You" for your loyal service and dedication to the American people and the world. Without fearless beings like you, our brave soldiers would not be able to perform their jobs efficiently. I am so sorry that you came home with fear and saddness in your heart. Just like our human soldiers it takes time to readjust to life. I pray with all my heart that you make a full recovery. You sound like a very loving and senitive being. Take one day at a time and move forward always. "Thank you for your service".
Jude that was very beautiful and very well said. Blessings to you for stating it.
Guess what......IT'S AN FN' DOG!!! If it can't serve it's purpose then put it down. Dogs like this are not pets and need to be treated as tools, because thats what they are. Get over it.
Jake, while , in a twisted sort of way, you are right that she is just a dog and a 'tool' you are forgetting the bigger picture. Dogs have been part of human civilization for thousands of years. She was trained to perform a job, but she isn't just a malfunctioning rifle one tosses aside after it has done it's job. Research done by revered institutions such as the Max Planck institute in Germany have shown that dogs have human like instincts, behaviors and intuitions unlike any other animal. They couldn't even get chimps and other great apes to do what dogs are able to do. Does that make Gina human? Nope. Not one bit. But I think she is closer to it than you clearly can ever hope to be.
Wow Jake what a stupid comment. Wouldn't you hate that if your wife or someone said that about you? There is no need to put this dog down. Send this dog to a good home to live out it's life.
Epic FAIL...
@Jake-1653250
Guess what...... YOU'RE AN FN' JERK!!! If you can't serve your purpose then let's put you down. People like you are not human and need to be treated as tools, because thats what they are. Get over it.
Gina... you did your duty to the best of your ability. I say we send 'jerk'.. I mean 'Jake' to take over your job!
jusmyopinion, we can't send Jerk, errr Jake because he would get soldiers killed while Gina protected them and saved their lives. But I think a tour of duty over there might get him to rethink his statements.
Jake - I'm going to guess that you don't have pets, and I am sorry for you. Too bad, because you'll never know the great love that those sentient beings have for their humans, wheather owner or handler. I hope for your well being that you, at some time in your life, can come to know that kind of love and affection. I am happy to hear that Gina is getting the love and care she deserves and has earned. I also feel that Gina has earned the right to live the balance of her life in peace. I hope that she, as well as any other soldier, does not have to go back to that part of the world. Let us all pray for peace.
I would rather see your cowardly pitiful life put down than our hero dog. You sick bastard & go the hell Jake.
Hmn. I don't think the dog is a tool, it's pretty clear JAKE 1653250 is the tool around here. What a moron.
Jake must have future vision. How else would he know that the dog had served its purpose? Or maybe the dog's purpose is to go to a great home with loving humans and make them happy every day when they come home from work, take walks with them and protect them from scorpions and snakes. Just because the dog had a job, it doesn't define her as a dog - it was just what the humans made her do. No more than acting like an ass defines you as a human - or at least I hope it doesn't.
Jake/Jerk - You poor soul, what a hateful life you must live. Yeah obviously you've never had a pet, but might have been one of those very sick puppies who torture animals, because to make the comment you made makes you rather subhuman. My, my aren't we so macho with your comments....no doubt you are a total loser, thinking your comments make you one tough man...all it does is show what a loser moron you are.
I think you should be put down you heartless @!$%#! You are a prick and deserve to be beat down! That dog is a service dog to this country and should be respected, honored and allowed to retire from service. Every creature should be able to enjoy life, even you, but you need training started with a beating!
Id like to add also, I have never served my country like this and my hat is off to all service men and women and yea dogs. But I would love to serve my country by beating your ass Jake.. I live in Hortonville Wisconsin and would love,, ABSOLUTELY LOVE to meet you and beat you the the brink of death you dickhead @!$%#! You are a parasite and I'd love to smash your little bug ass! You have me so friggin mad! I know people like you that have no respect for animals, yous are really sorry beings! God I wish you were here in front of me so I could teach you alittle respect and humility, I hope someone seriously beats your ass! @!$%# JERK!
Very dumb comment Jake. Gina does deserve special treatment. She didn't volunteer for the Army, she was drafted as a pup. I hate the fact that we take innocent animals and subject them to the worst in humanity. Then we seem to act suprised when the poor creature is actually frightened to death to participate in warfare anymore. To press her back into service overseas is a crime against her and against human decency. Gina is only a dog-leave her alone. To send her back into a combat environment seems to me to be animal abuse of the highest order. Let her live out her days on a nice peaceful farm somewhere. She has done more than her share for the Nation- leave her be. Are we so desperate that we need to send the wounded back into battle?
Jake, you are one sick person and should be put down yourself!
Jake you are an idiot. enough said.
Jake, what a sad statement u made. I would suppose that all soldiers are a tool in some oppinions, so does that mean we should also put down the many brave soldiers that came back affected by PTSD? That would include my own son who has come back with it also. I think u need mental help if u truely believe that of any living creature, let alone one that has saved lives and preformed a duty most people couldn't handle themselves without some form of PTSD themselves. I do believe u suffer from something far worst then the disorder that this brave dog has.
Hey Jake: do you also like to pull the wings off flies in your spare time?
Oh, wait a minute, I've got it: you have it all figured out. The dog is faking it so she can go on disability, get food stamps and watch Jerry Springer all day. Jake, you're a friggin' genius!!
admit it folks — Jake is a tool..nothing more to say
Jake -
Your Micheal Vick mentality lables you immediately as a major, inhumane fool. I wonder what purpose you have in life beyond being a Troll. And the way I see it being a troll is a pretty low priority purpose.
If you had an ounce of military experince or were well informed and perceptive you would know training a military dog to the level Gina was trained costs mega money and time. To put her down because she does not have the ability to adapt and recover quickly from trama and mental injury is wasting an otherwise good dog's life and taxpayers dollars. Just as with humans, some are able to handle more hell on earth then others. I was never in combat - women were not allowed in combat zones when I served but I have had plenty of male friends who were. Only those who have been in the thick of battle with the terror, the noise, the smells and the carnage can truly understand what a combat soilder and combat dog have gone through. I was blessed with a empathetic nature and have been used as a sounding board many times. People need that they are working out a personal stress issue. Talking can sometimes be more helpful then a handfull of pills in helping someone recovering from PTSD.
Combat dogs have saved thousands of service members lives. They have abilities we humans are sorely lacking. The combat dog deserve respect, care and understanding. A combat dog can't tell us they've reched a stress overload point except by their actions - cowering, hiding, tail tucked, etc. A good dog handler should have spotted her stress level was ramping up long before she reacted this point. Then again, it is war in a time of limited resources so he may have been told by his supervisors to shut the f**k and get her back to work or was his warnings and attemps to help her early on was blown off by the High Command. We on the outside don't know the full story of Gina and her handler's efforts.
The Washington Elite can rename it anything they want to make it combat sound a kinder, gentler and acceptable to the rest of the world - WAR is Hell on normal people and animals. Combat folks and animals REALLY need understanding, time and help adjusting to being back in the world after spending days on end enduring the horror of being in country during a time of armed conflict.
You're an idiot.
Douchebag!!!
First, wrong response. Purely from a military logistics perspective, if a tool or piece of a equipment is damaged and can be repaired, you repair it. Cost effective, strategically and tactically sound. If a Hum-vee's steering is out of alignment, do you trash it? Nope. There is an immense amount of money invested in an animal like this. OF COURSE you "repair" the damage as much as possible.
Second, wrong attitude. We as a species of animal have domesticated another species. We have altered it, modified it, twisted it to our every whim. Destroying a for any reason except the lack of quality of life or imminent threat to others is unconscionable. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I hope you don't own a dog. If you do, it should be confiscated. You don't deserve it.
Jake, right now she is more of a wounded soldier than anything else.
We ALL are "tools" in some capacity--or "assets."
Why not let her serve out her tour using her training on a post where stuff doesn't explode frequently?
@Jake-1653250
Guess what...... YOU'RE AN FN' JERK!!! If you can't serve your purpose then let's put you down. People like you are not human and need to be treated as tools, because that's what they are. Get over it.
Gina, you've done your duty... I'd like to see 'jerk'... I mean Jake sent over in your place.
Hedwig - Bravo - well said. Jake - no one could possibly be more of a "tool" than you my friend.
As a dog trainer myself, if feels good to know that Gina's trainer/handler is doing a great job making sure that Gina is treated like a Dog and not like a human being. With a lot of respect for the animal and caring for it and loving it, this a great example how to understand the animal world. They are our best companions in many ways even with the most difficult situations. Bravo to Gina and her trainer/handler. Keep up the good work, time for a Treat! Both of you! Enjoy the good life!
Jake, I have a feeling that if you made that comment to that dogs handler, or any military dog handler for that matter, you would find yourself suffering a little tauma yourself. These dogs are considered partners. Not a tool.
This great milatry dog soilder is a American hero and should never go back to combat for Gina has served with honer,she can serve at bases but should never go back to combat,she did her duty to the fullest with honor,why they even said she would go back to combat makes me sick,let her serve here in America,since she has PTSD she should never go into combat again,like I said let her serve here in America at a base or other places,I still can not believe they said she may go back to combat-WTF are they thinking.I hope Gina heals up 100% and serve here in America.Gina the hero dog.
How lovely it would be that a soldier would serve their country and be done with their service. Dog or human a job well done is a job well done. Unfortunately this is not the case in a time of active war, which is what we are and have been in for some time. Here's the deal. She, along with everyother soldier (the human variety) have been trained to do a job, time and money has been spent in their training. They do their job and sometimes get injured, they are treated, rehabilitated and guess what, more time and money has been spent on said soldier. To just retire them or allow them to serve in a safe environment, because they have fulfilled their active service would seem logical. But we are in an illogical situation, and logic is cast aside. Would you not want the same luxury for a HUMAN soldier who has experienced the same trauma? This is not realistic.... IF she can be rehabilitated to be of good service, I know I sure want her back over there doing her job, which is to assist the HUMAN soldiers to do theirs.
Now then...that's my head speaking, as you can see by my name, I am speaking from experience, does my husband cower and tuck his 'tail' when he approaches and enters a building? Is he now uncomforatble around crowds of people?? Does he jump or startle at loud noises. You'd better believe he does...it's worst when he just returns from deployment and just about subsides when, you guessed it, he's deployed again. They don't/can't even take the time to fully rehabilitate our soldiers before sending them back out. Why? Because they can't afford to. Would you ever KNOW that my husband goes through ALL of this repeatedly upon returning? Not at all.... because he's an American Soldier, sworn to defend our nation against all enemies..foriegn and domestic. And that's what he does for each of you. I am the one to deal with the fall out, and I do...for you.
So...should Gina the dog be sent back into action once rehabilitated and trained with new coping measures, so that she can effectively do her job? You'd better believe it. She's not the only hero that comes back a little shattered, but she makes all the difference in helping the human heros who are expected to rejoin their units once they are deemed fit for duty.
Army Wife Joy,
Your logic is fine- if someone enlists, volunteers for and/or reenlists for duty. That is NOT what happens with dogs. They are pressed into service whether they like it or not while little more than pups. Gina didn't ask for or volunteer to participate in warfare. The whole damned situation is an imposition on her. Your husband can end the repeat tours by simply not reenlisting, so it is very much his own choice that sends him back. Not so for Gina- she never took any oath or promised anyone to serve. She has no duty (duty= self imposed obligation) to this Nation, merely a job and situation inflicted on her by us.
Right Merlin, and I say give her her freedom, if any dog deserves it, it would be her. Yeah it costs time and money to train these dogs, but they did their job and should be respected. If America has any heart this dog should be retired and fed the best food money can buy her, health care and all for her. I would rather know my tax dollars are being spent on something like this.
I believe there is a difference in humans and animals serving. Not only the things mentioned so far in comments, but also the thought process. A human being knows that their country is at war, the reasons the country is at war (sometimes), who the country is fighting, etc. Then humans make an educated decision to enlist in a military environment. Unfortunately animals are seen as less important and more expendable. They go to war not knowing what war is, not knowing who they are fighting or why.
You are all right...my husband and any other soldier joined of free will. They believe in the rights which we are all exercising here in this medium. Gina serves more than just as a bomb sniffing dog... she is a morale booster and comfort for the soldiers who are there. I didn't say put her down, I didn't say return her if she's not able to rehabilitate, though that is what we are doing with humans beings. The fact that a human can rationalize, reason and comprehend the situation does nothing to diminish the damage which is being done. And with regard to the dog not knowing what war is, who they are fighting or why.... there are quite a few young soldiers who really have the same amount of comprehension as Gina. She has a sense of loyalty, which is what many men and women have, not fully understanding what they will see or face while out there. And it's their willingness to face that, which prevents the remainder of us to sit back here safe, never having to see the truth of war.
True - Gina did not volunteer to be a combat dog. But keep in mind she is not like your Aunt Tillie's toy poodle or Uncle Bobby's Pug. She is not a sporting dog. She is not a hound nor is she a terrier. She is a working breed. That means she was bred for generations back to when ever to be a dog with a purpose beyond laying at the feet of their Alpha.
A true working dog must have something to do. If not given a purpose, they find things to do which often is things we humans don't approve of. Eat the sofa, herd the kids and the cat, chase cars, chew the carpet, etc.
I'd be a nervous wreck also if I was asked to enter a door right after a flash gernade had just gone off not to mention hearing the sharp crack of gun fire and smelling the blood, vomit and fear. She should never be subjected to combat again. She's done her time in hell. She should be used as an education dog for training new handlers or maybe used for a Elementary School Program. Something low key and far way from the noise and smells of explosives.
First off "Jake" you're an @!$%#! If you failed to perform your duties as prescribed, should we put YOU down?
That being said, there is an old adage that a society is guaged by the way it treats it's animals. This dog has done her service to this country. Let her heal in peace. I think it was Will Rogers (could be wrong) that said, "If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go"
Cesar Millan treated a case similar to this on his program last year - a bomb sniffing ATF dog that had been in either Iraq or Afghanistan and had come back traumatized. I hope this soldierly dog recieves the help she needs to fully recover. Even if she can't serve anymore, I hope she can have a good, peaceful life.
Jake you need a serious A$$ whipping by a highly trained soilder-a special forces soilder,your also a stupid so called human,you on the level of islamic muslim terrorist-scum,I would rather this dog live than you and your not man enough to go to the front lines of combat,your a coward and a asinine prick and have a IQ under 70.
The IQ of a cucumber is what my old teacher would have said :).
I sort of disagree Kitty. I've never heard an "elitist" view by so-called "experts" that animals don't share emotions. Most people agree that animals feel emotion. However, check out Jake. He's no elitist; seems to be more of a carefree, heartless redneck!
Please don't insult rednecks, I was tempted to use words like that, he is below any "term" you could through at him. I agree with the person that wrote, " I'd rather see Jake put down then this dog"!
I think it's really sad that no one has brought up that this dog is getting better treatment for her PTSD than our human warriors do. I wonder how many fewer stories we would read about concerning skyrocketing suicide and homicide rates among soldiers if this kind of quality care was available.
The problem with humans and PTSD is the stigma attached to admitting you may have it, and thus, the reluctance of people getting treated for it. This is not so with the dog.
As a person with PTSD (from Gulf War 1), most sufferers don't really know that they have it. Most recognized that "something " is wrong, but it usually takes a meltdown to become aware what that "something" was. It took me 10 years before I realized my problems were PTSD. I am still in treatment. And for the Viet Nam Vets I know, average time for for recognition and seeking treatment: 30-35 years.
From my personal experience, at least in the Air Force, many of the medical groups are not trained to handle returning vets with physical or mental issues. The typical attention that is received is a quick computer survey followed MAYBE by a 15 minute visit with a doc. If you have issues, you'll be run in circles till frustration kicks in and you give up. I was personally denied mental health attention and it took a full year before i was seen for knee and back issues (which were bad enough that I could barely walk) upon returning from Afghanistan.
The stigma also extends to people who get PTSD from non-combat things, i.e. getting your ass whooped by your parents(like punching, kicking, choking, getting thrown into things, picked up by your hair/ears/neck, bruises,cuts, and repetition, not getting spanked for not doing your chores), or being abandoned, rape(not so much stigma there), fatal car wrecks, etc.
But you can get it from other events... I know noone was condemning it, but since you guys were on the topic of PTSD and stigmas and such, I just wanted to point that out too.
Just goes to show that animals can think, understand, fear, love, hate, know the difference and protect his best friend, man, without thinking twice about his own life. Animals need more protection from people who abuse them. A good jail time would make someone think twice about how they treat animals.
You all fell right into Jake's lap! People like him make outrageous posts just for the hope he gets the kind of respons he did here. In future, it would be better just to ignore idiots like Jake...posts like his do not merit our energies to respond. That said, Gina should never have to go back to Iraq, and should just be used to sniff out bombs in cars on domestic army bases if she's to remain an army dog.
I agree with you, whole-heartedly about Jake. If you click on his name you can see all of the idiotic inflamatory comments he has made for the last 6 months. I think that's the only rise he's capable of getting. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Jake is yet another trash-poster who would off himself if he didn't have the forum to spew his venom. What a sad sack. Euthanize Jake? Nah, waste of money. Too simple. Let him sit behind his computer in his underwear while he giggles at his outrageous posts. I'll bet he has never served one day in defense of his country.
Gina is a hero along with all her other service brothers and sisters. All my wishes for her continued recovery.
It blows me away they STILL use this particular breed of dog for this type of job. It has been my experience as a veterinary professional that german shephards are just scary. In my opinion these dogs don't have the right temperment for anything stressful.
Are you nuts?
Well bred GSDs are among the most stable dogs out there. Their TEMPERAMENT is perfect for this type of work.
I have been around many working dogs as I own a pet boarding facility and German Shepherds make WONDERFUL bomb sniffing/rescue/guard dogs! Their temperament was playful when not "on the job" and totally professional when it came time to "work".
That said - Many blessings to both Gina and her partner! How wonderful she is getting the help she needs while still being treated like a dog and not like a person as treating her like a traumatized person would just make her problems worse, not better. She, like some many of our other brave soldiers who came back with very real spiritual and mental wounds deserves any and all help, support and appreciation all of us can give them.
Honestly, I agree with Modern One. Because of inbreeding, a lot of German Shepherds nowadays have less than trustworthy temperaments. I've seen firsthand evidence of this. Personally, I think they should use (well trained, of course) pitbulls, instead. Contrary to "general opinion", pitbulls were actually bred to be more people friendly than most breeds, and they're absolutely fearless. They have gotten a bad rep because of unsavory characters making them vicious, but by nature, that's NOT their character at all...
Now let the flaming begin.
This should be an example of what war does to some of our troops. This also should be an example of what more help could be done for our troops after they return, and not make this out to be a repeat of the Korean War. Oh, I'm sorry! The Korean Police Action!
I hope the oil is worth all of this. War kills and traumatizes not just man, but man's best friend as well. At least we're finally getting ready to leave, we'll see how long democracy lasts.