James, check with a Service Representative at Social Security on the check. They should be able to help you.

Good Luck!

This registered Democrat wants to know how much more it will cost me and if any of this pos law is overturned do we get our money back?

For those of you thanking BO and his cronies I really really hope I never have to say "told you so".

Is THIS what the tea republicans are fighting? They think these provisions are bad, evil and the end of the world??? The whole damn world can do this but we can't. Pitiful.

James, my mom had been in the doughnut hole for many years. She did receive her $250.00 rebate check. That barely touched the $5,000.00 she has had to shell out of pocket. She is however greatful for even that small amount for the rebate.

Is THIS what the tea republicans are fighting? They think these provisions are bad, evil and the end of the world??? The whole damn world can do this but we can't. Pitiful.

Grunt- this is a prescription (pun intended) to bankrupt every insurance company and force universal care on us. Tell you what- if I have to pay for your sorry ass; I get to determine what you eat, what lifestyle choices you make, where you live, not allow you to drive, etc. etc.

It's working real well for europe now, huh?

In looking at the list, every one of these provisions will cost the insurance companies more money.

Does anyone realistically believe that premiums for EVERYONE will not skyrocket?

Some of the provisions are good - especially limiting pre-existing exclusions, but I wish Congress would have been honest about the real cost - which will be in the $Trillions over 10 years.

PS - When does the $500 Billion "savings" from Medicare start? You know, the money that Democrats are going to use twice - once to pay for HCR, and then again to extend the viability of the Medicare program, which now has a $90 TRILLION unfunded liability?

To begin, I support health care reform because doing nothing is not an option per the Republican Party of No. With that said...

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds, and yes there will need to be fine tuning. For example, it is one thing to say people can't be rejected due to pre-existing conditions, but that is not to say they can't be charged rates so high as to be rejected. Whether the cost for insurance goes down remains to be seen. If not, it will be hard to make it mandatory.

But requiring insurance companies to actually provide benefits for the premiums paid is excellent, and in particular preventative care. Preventative care like mamograms will help reduce higher costs by detecting these things early.

As for Medicare, this is a fee-for-service program. People must pay into the program through income tax withholdings. Then they must pay premiums and out-of-pocket percentages--it is NOT free. This is a much better idea than a welfare system or a system in which people go bankrupt--and MUCH better than the old days when people died all the time from simple things like infection, child bearing, etc. Also, I don't believe health care benefits should be provided by companies as this makes U.S. companies less competitive globally.

This is the kind of thing government is for. We're talking about life and death matters, even national security matters here. And ultimately health care should be non-profit because it's not moral to profit from sickness. In fact, government should oversee health care more than education or postal service, for example. I'd love to see people pay the full cost to educate their own children and get rid of public schools. I'd like to see UPS, FedEx, etc. buy the postal offices. These services are more appropriate for the private sector.

The Exchange will force hospitals and doctors to be more cost effective. The right-wing fear mongering that this will result in lower quality care doesn't hold water since the U.S. already ranks at the bottom compared to other industrialized countries (often worse than some third-world countries). Also current abuses, like charging $100 for Tylenol, must be ended.

In regard to individual responsibility, the reason there is a high tax on cigarettes is to help off-set the cost to society for lung disease. Disease associated with a bad diet is more complicated--taxes on soft drinks and juice has been blocked for example, but removing soft drink and candy machines from schools is a good start. Regulations (yes the other 'R' word) requiring labels and nutrition information is really important. It forces food manufacturers and even restaurants to make healthier foods.

Reform was greatly needed, and I'm glad we are at least starting to do so. I hope people understand that Dems were willing to risk their jobs for this and other reforms and will vote for Dems in November. The recent analogy of putting your car in 'D' to go forward, and 'R' to go backward is so true.

TruePatriot-445959 " The recent analogy of putting your car in 'D' to go forward, and 'R' to go backward is so true."

If only it weren't for that cliff right ahead.

If you look at the list in the article, can you name a single thing that will cause insurance costs to go DOWN? All I saw were more costs on insurance companies, and those increased costs will increase premiums for everyone.

i agree roy, couldnt even finish reading it to be honest. I just got a job, when i am eligable at this moment, it will be a tad over $200.00 a month, now i know i cant afford that, and the new hike when i am going to be eligable? ya, right! They can say all they want to if i cant afford it i dont have to take it, but i have child support obligastions, and am forced to take it. means i get paid 3 weeks out of 4 weeks work....if i am lucky...wth....

AtlasWillShrug if I have to pay for your sorry ass; I get to determine what you eat, what lifestyle choices you make, where you live, not allow you to drive, etc. etc.

I personally, am getting sick and tired of the same old response to illness. I have pre-existing conditions by NO FAULT OF MY OWN. ATRIAL FIBRILLATION. Look it up! You don't do anything to cause it. It just happens. ASTHMA. Look it up. It's not what you eat. It just happens!
It wasn't because I didn't take care of myself, and the same goes for many others with illnesses. You think Leukemia is brought on by the person that has it did or didn't do? You think a hemorrhage is cause by something someone did or didn't do?

For God's sake and the rest of ours, get Off your High Horses! How the h3\\ do you think YOU"LL be paying mine or any of the other's way?
You haven't seen what WE have to pay for insurance. It was all fine and dandy when I was employed and had group insurance, which by the way, I paid out of my check every week... but now that I'm laid off, not by any fault of my own... the only insurance I can get is HEPPA. They want $700 a month. My unemployment pays $800 a month. Figure that crap out!

Oh yes, Obama was going to make this affordable for all of us. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. They can't deny for pre-existing conditions and that starts WHEN again? Health care will be affordable for everyone...when again?
The only people I see this reform for, is the children and young adults.
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't ever begrudge a child health care, but many of those hardly NEED health care, exept for wellness checks and vaccinations and colds and flues. The older adults that actually NEED some help paying for this mess, aren't getting that helping hand Obama promised. Everything he promises doesn't happen for years after the bill is passed. (and then, by the way, he will be elected out).

So at $700 a month, how is you think YOU'RE paying for MY health care (or anyone elses that you claim your footing the bill for)? Time to grow up and stop thinking you are a victim. Some of you people think the whole world revolves around you.

I'll say it again. You better hope you and your family never get diagnosed with an illness or get in an accident. You'll be the first one hollering how unfair the insurance company is. And you have no right to tell me or others what they can eat, wear, or be.
I'm sorry, but who the h3\\ do you think you are?

TruePatriot-445959

Actually, I agree with much of what you have to say, especially that health care should be a government responsibility, and most other countries have shown that it can be both good quality and cost effective. Unfortunately, I doubt that most doctors and lawyers would agree, since they are the ones that will take the biggest hit. The average doctor in France makes about the same amount as the typical doctor in the United States pays for liability insurance alone.

The "taxes on cigarettes" is a poor analogy, since those taxes are not allocated for public treatment of diseases caused by cigarettes, but instead are just used for politician's pet projects. But under the principle of "If you want to discourage something, tax it, and if you want to encourage something, subsidize it", these do accomplish something beneficial - better health.

Personally, I think that universal insurance should be provided for all citizens, and the cost should be paid by a National Sales Tax (not a VAT). This will make our companies much more competitive internationally, and spur job growth. Unfortunately, the Democrats will oppose this as a "disproportionate tax on poor people".

At times like this, we should be looking for every possible way to spur economic growth and employment, but it's unfortunate that most of the programs I've seen over the last 18 months actually increase business costs and discourage hiring.

Conway-

It's simple really. You don't a right to healthcare. A lot of people claim a right to healthcare which demands responsibility on a third party such as the doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc. that must provide the care and taxpayers that must foot the bill. So, in order to provide this so-called right, you are infringing on my rights to property which is actually a right.

While I feel for you and others with diseases, it does not change my opinion that the government should tax us higher (those of us who actually pay taxes) to provide healthcare to others, nor does it change the fact that the HCR is unconstitutional and lead our country closer to complete financial ruin.

But, if we're going to play the, "it's my right," game, let's try the following:

If you drive without a seatbelt and receive injuries resulting from failure to wear a seatbelt, you receive only life-saving treatment.

If you smoke (which I do), you receive no care for lung-related illnesses, as smoking is a choice of the individual.

If you have unprotected sex and contract an STD, no care for you. Again, this is a choice.

If you eat poorly, don't exercise, and are obese, no healthcare for you.

If you get pregnant, because you chose to have unprotected sex, no abortion for you.

No contraceptives for the sexually active. Sex is a choice and has inherent risks.

If you use illegal drugs, no healthcare for you. Illegal drug use is a choice.

If you're injured in the commission of a crime, no healthcare for you.

If you don't finish high school which we have paid for, no healthcare for you.

The list goes on.

So, if we're going to play the rights and responsibilities game, let's put some limits on behavior. No? Why not? Because it becomes an infringement of your rights? You can't have it both ways.

I'm fine with a state providing healthcare; I have the option of moving to another state. This is not a federal responsibility. I do understand that the federal government interference with healthcare has created the majority of the problems with healthcare. Anytime something is subsidized for people to receive, the provider increases the cost. Similar to college tuition. If there was less subsidizing, colleges would reduce their tuitions to maintain enrollment levels. If healthcare wasn't subsidized, people wouldn't abuse the system going to the doctor or ER for the sniffles.

Adequate health care is a basic, fundamental need for everyone on the planet. Ayn Rand fans may proudly proclaim that those who cannot get it for themselves should die and leave the wealth to the rest of us. That's fine...as long as they embrace their own fate, should they receive the fatal, dreaded diagnosis that will shove them firmly out of the ranks of the fittest. Social Darwinism is easy (if shallow) when you and those you love are healthy. It's a different story when that changes.

Adequate health care is integral to the general welfare (the Constitutional purpose of our federal government). If we fail to provide for that welfare, opting instead for the selfishness of social Darwinism, than shame on us all. I choose to believe we're better than that.

I agree! Love your analogy! And have you looked at what the federal pre-existing coverage is going to cost? It's as much as a mortgage payment in Texas!!! Some states are higher or lower, but it's all too high to be affordable for working class Americans. BO must think we all have $$$$.

I'm not sure Karen but wasn't part of the bill vouchers to help the poor and middle class pay for this.

boba, whose paying for those vouchers??

Harold - if all we had to pay for was emergency medicine then we'd be fine. The issue is that we are paying for diseases of modern society like diabetes and heart disease. Eighty percent of both of those is preventable. The most glaring omission in this healthcare bill is that patients are not gong to be held accountable for their healthcare. It does nothing to address the obesity epidemic or punish smokers. It does nothing to get folks to turn around their diabetes via lifestyle modification. The main cost burden of this bill is going to be treating people with preventable conditions, not getting people coverage for cancer or some horrible genetic disorder. This bill did NOTHING to change the healthcare paradigm, it only furthered everything that is already wrong with it AND got the gov't involved in something they have already proven inept at (Medicare is a bureaucratic joke).

If you want to know what it is that can cause people to spout off about "death panels" you need look no further than this. Where is the line between a lifestyle that caused a disease and one that didn't? How overweight do you have to be before being forced to make a "lifestyle modification"? For that matter, what standard do you use to determine whether someone is overweight or not? On top of that, could you not make the same argument that people who do something others might deem as risky, such as skiing or rock-climbing, should also face the same sorts of penalties if they get hurt since it was their choice to engage in behavior that caused them to need medical treatment?

That all said, I do agree with you on the fact that many of our society's health issues are self inflicted and changing our eating habits, quitting smoking, etc would make a large dent in the money spent on health-care, though it still won't affect the cost of individual procedures.

hey Dano, get your facts straight. 80% of diabetes and heart disease is preventable?

My father contracted juveniel diabetes when he was 2, his brother and sister were 4, and my brother and sister were 8. Tell me how THAT is preventable? What can a 2 year old do to prevent diabetes? Stop drinking formula? Actually in the 40's it was probably milk, or mother's milk.

Tell me how preventing this can bring back my father, died when he was 45, or his daughter, my sister, died when she was 32. Preventable, 80%? Please!!

My heart problems, as those of my brother's (both of them) are preventable? we were all told, while recovering from CABG, "there is NOTHING that can be done about genetics".

Your ignorance, far out weighs your intellegence!

There is plenty wrong with the Health Insurance in this country, BUT DO NOT CONDEMN THOSE THAT ARE SICK to rationalize your inability to get the facts straight!

People like you VOTED for the idiots that passed this bill!

Stunned - I think we should get some really bright minds together and see if they can hash out some standards. If we use current evidence based medicine as a starting point then we can go from there. There are medical definitions for things like obesity; maybe they need some tweaking, but as they are they aren't all bad. Again, let's get some really smart people together to set some standards.

I also think we should use incentives. For example, you go to the doc under an incentive plan and he determines you are obese based on whatever standard some really smart people come up with. You now have a certain amount of time to lose a specified amount of weight to keep your current costs from rising. If you don't make it to goal then there could be a protocol (that those really smart folks come up with) over the course of which your costs go up if you don't hold up your end of the bargain (lose weight). At some point, if you get to a healthy weight you will be utilizing far fewer health care resources and eventually almost none thus reducing costs over the long haul. It seems this whole thing is driven by money anyway, so let's use it as an incentive.

As far as the rock climbing/skiing, that's an interesting situation. I can't say I'm totally against charging more for care needed due to a dangerous activity. Consequences need to be a bigger part of healthcare. It's a great question that I will have to digest for a while.

@Harold

Obviously you haven't read the bill.

Section under Insufficient funds. Which gives the Health-Care Secretary the right to cut back or eliminate medical services if there are more expenses than funds.

What does that sound like?

whyc-doons - I don't seem to recall saying Type 1 diabetes (what the kids get) is preventable. I'm fully aware that it is not. Maybe I should be more specific - 80% of Type II diabetes is preventable. I stand behind 80% of heart disease being preventable. Hypertension and elevated cholesterol are rampant in this country, right along with obesity and smoking, ALL KNOWN RISK FACTORS FOR CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE - google Framingham risk Assessment. Yes, genetics plays a role, and maybe in your case (the 20% that isn't preventable - a little math for ya - let me know if I should slow down) that was the culprit. But when 80% IS preventable I'm going to play the odds. Healthcare should be for folks like you (assuming it wasn't an extra 50 lbs or a 2-pack a day habit that caused necessity for bypass) not for people who continually ignore a risk infested lifestyle and expect someone else to bail them out when their lifestyle catches up to them.

I'm condemning no one, I'm just willing to admit there is an elephant in the room that no one is willing to address and that elephant is patient responsibility.

Dano,

Thanks for a thoughtful answer to my questions. I can't honestly say I can see how anyone could come up a system that would work, but the ideas you expressed seem sound to me. I don't have a problem with a system that has consequences for bad behavior except for fear of those running it abusing it for their own purposes. I say this knowing full well that I would be one that faces those very same consequences as I am a smoker (as light as my habit may be, it is still self-destructive behavior that I don't feel anyone else ought to be responsible for in any way).

I just wish our politicians would have really tried to do something to fix the system instead of this half baked rush to vote bill we all ended up with.

Well said Stunned...well said

Harold, tell me are all libs dysfunctional, mentally?

Perhaps you didn't notice that Mr Obama has recently, on a recess appoint, no less inatalled a man by thr name of Donald Berwick to head up medicare.

Mr, Berwick is an admireer of the UK systems and an advocate of denials of service and product as an economy mesure.

That does kind of sound like DEATH PANEL. doesn't it?

Obviuosly you have not read the legislation nor listened to the new chief ofCMS.

GARY----- Kindly, take your bs down the road.

I not only have read the medical bill I have spent roughly 30 hoiurs researching Mr Berwick

Mr Berwick was one of the early admirers of the UK system and has abeen a consistent, advocate of denial of service and product for economy reasons.

Any one who atteempts to tell me differently, is a bare faced liar.

Dano, while I agree with patient responsibility, it does sucks when the diseases you mention are caused by heredity. I am 24, not overweight, very active, eat well, and just found out my cholesterol is elevated. I'm hoping to get it down with the meds my doc is having me try after she prescribed the whole "diet and exercise" (which I already was doing before) for three months and it didn't drop.

Anyway I agree about many people needing to take responsibility and living a healthier lifestyle if they want to reap benefits, but I'm sure there are many like me who take offense to that as well.

As I stated before, it's people like you that we need to be willing to treat, as genetics does account for some diseases - I recognize that. But too many folks use gentics as a crutch when in reality it's lifestyle that is the issue. It is these folks that would take offense because someone is being critical of them and telling them the truth they don't want to hear. They want to wallow in self pity and feel entitled to someone else doing the hardwork. I wish you well with your cholesterol. Stay patient with it. Somone with your attitude will come out on top of this.

No I know that you were conceeding the heredity thing, i was just trying to come from a more middle ground on that issue and not immediately crying out "whoa is me, its not fair, etc". I could probably do even more to lower it but hey, I'm still gonna treat myself to a juicy hamburger and fries once in a while :)

Still hearing those crickets chirping, Pinget. Not surprising.

WHAT!? They're trying to fix the healthcare system!? Better tell all the low-class redneck repubs. they best get out their pitch-forks and torches because this may actually benefit them.

Did you guys know that the penalty for denying someone with a pre-existing condition after this bill takes effect is $100 a day? So the insurance company can either pay $36,500 for denying a cancer patient... OR they can insure them and pay 3, 4, 5, ... 10x that to insure them. - Just one example of how the Repubs. watered this bill down until it was a steaming pile of crappy legislation. Thanks for trying Obama, it was more than the fascists would have done.

How is this bad? Well let us start with the idea, you want someone else to pay your way. Not what you want to hear. Those evil rich people got more than they need so take it from them the highest percentage of what they make and spread it around to those that don't. That is more than fair right. Just because they got it, people like you want it. So that in it's self makes it right. Oh my, what will you do when the rich run out of money?

Obviously the term "insurance" is lost on you. It's not low cost health care. Would you pile all your 401k money into an investment that would guarantee a loss? Of course you wouldn't. Why would an insurance carrier cover a preexisting condition they know will cost them 100x the premium.

Now I'm not against them getting care, I just find it foolish that one would blame the insurance companies for not covering a preexisting condition which guarantees them a loss. It's an assine argument.

Bad is working every day and not making enough to be able to afford health insurance. If you can't afford it, you don't have it. If you don't have it and end up with a serious illness you have no money to pay for it. The bill is passed on to ALL who purchase insurance. Better to require ALL people to contribute something towards their coverage for just this instance instead of what we have now. Then there are the people who can afford it but choose not to have insurance. When their bill multiplies we end up paying for their illness also, after creditors have made them homeless. The other solution is if you are born poor, you get no healthcare (republican plan). Better off just not working and receiving Medicaid. Why does the person in the million dollar house pay 10 times more school tax than the person in the 100K house? Does he have 10 times more children in school? Lets get rid of public education next. The first dollar out of anyone's pocket for healthcare should be their own families healthcare. No more paying taxes to pay for government employees (members of congress). Tell them that generous compensation package is coming to an end. Pay for your own healthcare like the rest of us so we can cut that large debt that we are all of a sudden so concerned about.

I can tell you how its a bad thing...

1. All the goodiies (which include many things that even the eveil republicans agreed needed to be done) are being implemented now. So the sheeple can sing its praises.

2. All the bad things except the taxes (see #3) will come in Jan. 2013, after the 2012 election, hmmm who's up for election in 2012?

3. The taxes, most of them hidden (like the tax on medical devices) will start Jan 1 even though the majority of the expensive outlays won't start till 2014. This is how you make a 6 year program pay for itself in 10 years. Its like buying a car now and making the payments for 10 years but not being able to drive it for the first four years.

4. My individual plan rates (I pay for my families health insurance out of my own pocket) went up 14% after the bill was passed. Why, to pay for all the great goodies we are getting next month because nothing is really free, someone has to pay for it.

5. "Death panels" are coming just search youtube for videos of Berwick who is now in charge of medicare/medicaid and see how much he likes the British National Health System and the need for "tough choices" and "supply control" which means rationing plan and simple. That is why Britain has the lowest cancer and heart disease survival rate in the industrialized world. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1234276/Britain-sick-man-Europe-Heart-cancer-survival-rates-worst-developed-world.html

Ask someone who lives there if they want our plan. Even consevatives in Britain don't want our corporate greed system. 92% don't want the national health system touched, tell the whole story.

I cant even decipher half of what these sheep are saying. Their reasons why they don't like this bill are just regurgitated from Fox. I don't think they even understand why they don't like healthcare reform. IT OBVIOUSLY NEEDS TO BE REFORMED. WE JUST NEED TO DO IT CORRECTLY. I make $2000 bucks a month but I only end up with $1400 of that after health insurance and taxes are taken out. Thats almost a 1/3 of my pay. And I dont care. I just want to see that money go towards bettering our country. Not to a war. Not to contracting oil companies to get paid to drill oil AND THEN sell it to us. I dont want to pay cops to bust people growing a plant(pot). And I don't give a crap if there are Mexicans in America. Just get them legalized and make em pay taxes. Our government is supposed to be there to help us, quit letting politicians rape you for taxes and then tell you they cant spend it because its not the responsible thing to do!

I tell more of the story than you do. At least I link to the article in the Daily Mail. Where do you get 92%? You know studies show that 92% of statistics quoted on the fly are 100% B.S.

That's not the crickets chirping you hear. It's the Obammy supporter's sphincters closing when they realize it will cost them also. Something for nothing? I don't think so.

Wow! All of you losers need to go find a job and quit mooching off of other people. Lazy mother fers. Take responsibility for yourself. It is fn frightening how many fn losers put there trust in fn government.

The Daily Mail, Ruppert Murdock's rag. That's right, he owns a big stake in Fox News. And your British Prime minister, a conservative, fully supports that health system, just like Maggie Thatcher. Why does every American military and State Dept member and their families receive their care in that system. If you believe their system is so bad you must not support the troops.

Let me answer just one small part of your statement Toby. I am not supporting or against the UK health system, I know some about it but not having lived with it I don't think I am qualified to speak on its merits or lack thereof. However, you bring up the US military having their own health-care, separate from what the average American deals with. As a both a military brat and veteran myself, let me clue you in on two things we used to say in my time about the quality of care we received:

1. "You get what you pay for"

2. "Motrin! It'll cure anything"

The only difference being a service member in a British hospital getting care paid for through the US government or if you qualify through the National Health is food in hospital on the National Health is included. Through the US military you pay for the food. Some make a distinction between how many MRI machines there are per population in Canada or the US (many more in US). Compare the number of veterans treated in VA health facilities and those treated in Canada when it comes to MRI machines. Fewer at VA health facilities where I receive my care by choice, not necessisty.

Its ignorant people like you and all democrats that believe this garbage health bill. You are the suckers and it will be because of people like you that this country will no longer be what it was. Good job ignorance!

Well isn't this interesting, all of the parasites/parasite enablers are out tonight.

Perspnally, I would cut my head off, with a broken coke bottles, before going on a public forum and advocating stealing money from the people that earned it and using it to buy my insurance or insuranc for the leeches..

You have to be an advocate of theft and parasiticalism, to support this plan.

Trot aout all the sweetheart reasons, you like, that's the bottom line.

My hero, a text book Marine. Jerry, have you brought any broke, down and out veterans home lately?

well, the way I'm understanding this is we all should stay home on the sofa and use our treadmills every day because if we ride a bike to work on city streets, hike, boat, or do any of the other pasttimes that we americans love we are indulging in risky behavior. Guess anyone who earns a decent living will face large insurance premiums or give up living life to the fullest. Knitting classes, here I come!!

TOBY ----- One ofmY favorite parasitse/parasite enablers.

Odd that you should bring that up Toby, 22 of us just finished, we bought material and erected a home for indigent vets, in N TN. Todate only houses 10, but we hope to find some more volunteers.

We didn't go to the government Toby, we contributed our money and our time, TOBY.

Difference between conservatives and parsites, Toby, we contributed our time and our money.

Jerry, I hope you people who are the only ones working, come back to read this. Not every person who works and has insurance wants to see someone who can't afford insurance or doesn't qualify because of one of those pre existing conditions to go without GOOD health coverage. The ones that work and when they become ill can't afford the premiums and end up going broke due to medical bills. All to create more profit for the people at the top.

Keep buying cupcakes at the church bake sale to raise $140 for grandma's 150K medical bill, right before they kick her out of it. In your world, there is no problem with our healthcare in this country. Put your capitalist therory to work and tell your member of congress to pay for his own health insurance, the whole thing. No more generous compensation package. When I send tax money to pay for their health insurance it's called a compensation package. When I receive healthcare it's called socialism. Their care is mostly paid for with OUR tax money. Be a good little soldier and tell them to pay for their own care. Then tell them no more of your tax money for public education, pay for their own child's education. Be a good American capitalist. Corporate America.

Some of us choose to bring the minimums up for ALL Americans. Then others want to let millions go to sleep hungry every night.

Why? Do you have a wife and child needing coverage?

clarke, the poster has a child, under 26, that I am assuming still lives in his household and has a wife and a child of their own..

Yes thank you for this countries race to a third world status.

Third world status like in Canada or Sweden. Get a grip.

The next time, can he buy a tube of KY Jelly first? I'm tired of it hurting every time the government gets done with me. And I don't even get kissed....

After this bill got passed, my rates went up again. I'm now paying (before co-pays and deductible) almost $3400 a year - for a single male in the low 30's. I've needed it in the past, and was lucky to have insurance. But this mandatory health insurance requirement is doing nothing to help control the skyrocketing costs.

If anything will cause the U.S. to enter the third world it will be glib comments about serious issues. For example, comments that take so little thought that even Sarah Palin or people who think the possessive form of "country" is "countries" can make them.

Thomas,

Your rates did not go up because of the bill. Health insurance rates have been going up for years. While running our business we saw rates increase from 1997 to 2007 by at least 20% each year. This past year before the health reform passed our family rate increased 57%. This was all done by the insurance company and had nothing to do with the government.

Health care reform is just one element to Obama's plan to **PREVENT** us from reaching third-world status, which is exactly where we were headed under the policies of the previous administration. Damn good thing we don't allow three terms for our chief executives, or else Bush could have possibly had enough time to complete the job.

That's just the crux of it Terri. After this bill was passed - under the guise of making health care affordable - the rates just continue to rise. When are they going to come down? Other than when Satan starts lacing up his skates. If this bill was to make health care affordable, why is it still impossible for many Americans to afford health care? Why wasn't tort reform part of the health care bill? Why wasn't health insurance opened up on the federal level - I can get auto insurance in Indiana and if I have an accident anywhere in the nation, I'm covered; but, if I buy health insurance in Indiana and cross over a state line I'm suddenly "out-of-network"? Why this? Why that? Et Cetera, ad infinium.

And no, I don't think single-payer, i.e. government-run, health care is the answer. Unless the question is how can I put myself in more harm's way. The problem is health care by committee - be it government (Medicare, Medicaid) or private insurance. If I go to a doctor, my medical decisions should be between him and me - we decide on the best course of treatment. And if I happen to have insurance, no matter where I go, and who I see, the insurance will pay it - just like auto insurance. Unfortunately, we have too many people who should have no say in our medical lives having a say in our medical lives. I hope you never need or want an abortion, because now with the new law, if your insurance provided it previously, but they get federal tax dollars now, they CANNOT cover it. That's something that belongs between you, your doctor, your spouse/significant other, and whatever superstition/deity you believe in. I should have no more say in that, than you should have if I want a vasectomy or rhinoplasty or bariatric surgery.

But we didn't get what we wanted or needed. We got this bill. And we're going to get even bigger bills ($) in the future.

What I think our government should do is just take a 2 year vacation. I would love it if they would just stay out of my business. Let me manage my life and money the way I want. For all of you bleeding hearts out there who are for government healthcare, and that's what this will turn into, get a life. Look at the "rules" handed down by Obama Care. They are designed to put insurance companies out of business. Require everyone to have health care even if they are a drug addict or weigh 900 pounds. Check. Limit the premium insurers can charge that individual. Check. Do away with the life time max. Check. Pre-existing conditions? Sign up for insurance today and go get checked out. Cancel tomorrow. Check. In 10 years, we will have government health care and balloon our national debt to 25+ Trillion. So, I vote we give our law makers a raise and more vacation time. Take it all at once, and leave us alone...

Thomas, count yourself lucky that you are only paying single coverage - and at such a LOW yearly price. I have single coverage myself, pay twice that amount and have a $60.00 co-pay everytime I see the Dr. If I need meds on top of that, forget it! The co-pay on them is just as bad. Insurance through the company that you work for decides what coverage is going to be CHEAPEST for them - they aren't or don't think about what you have to pay out of pocket, they are just covering their azzes by providing you with the coverage.

Do you realize what it is like to work your azz off full time, work as much OT as you possiblt can in a week only to find out that your yearly income is LESS than what the average is come is for your area??? I think everyone needs to stop whinning and be thankful for a job and the ability to not only pay for insurance coverage but to have a job as well.

One of the provisions of the health care reform law is that once it goes into effect, there will also be limits on overhead and profit. Insurers will be required to spend between 80 cents and 85 cents of every premium dollar on health care. They have been paying about 74 cents on average.

So it seems the insurance companies are scrambling to make as much as they can ahead of all the parts of the legislation taking effect. They gonna have some 'splainin to do later.

please, if you lived on the northern border you would realize the canadians that can afford it cross into the U.S. for their serious medical care

Just a voter-490749

Not true... Canadians love their health plan.

You may say that a lot of Americans go across to Canada and Mexico to buy prescription drugs.

And you may also say that some people go to the US for specialized treatment the same way that people from other countries come to Canada or go to Europe. The US does not own all the discoveries in the medical field..

I live in Massachusetts and recently left my employer to start my own business. My former employer used United Healtcare (largest provider in the nation) who offered two plans.

Because of the Massachusetts reforms, I have a choice of five different providers (from the limited, low cost providers to Blue Cross/Blue shield) each offereing three different plans. After looking at my 15 choices, I was able to select the plan that best met my families needs - and saved $200/month.

Dont really see a downside to having a choice.

john, will I get that choice while still enjoying my employment, or will I have to stay with what is already being offered and at the same rate? In other words, tell me how this is going to benefit ME...

The answer to "how will this benefit ME...." depends on your own situation and employer.

If you work for a small business, the same plans are available to to them to offer their employees. (the rate is slightly lower to employers, the real value is the lower administrative costs for employers who do not have the skillset to administer this type of a program). You should have them google the program - Most businesses want to do right by their employees, they might add to their current HC offerings.

If you have a child with special needs (my son is autistic), there are also supplemental insurance offerings that would compliment your employers insurance. (saved me considerable $$$ in dealing with my sons disability)

If your employer will not consider enrolling in the Massachusetts program, you could consider changing your employment status/compensation package to accept a higher salary or subcontracting arrangement in exchange for forgoing HC benefits. You could then access the Massachusetts offerings independently.

If neither of these options works, at least if your employer lays you off, you have insurance options other than COBRA that could save you money while you find another job.

Theses are just a few options, I know theer are others I am not aware of, Hope this helps

How can you be complaining if you don't even know the answer to this question.

Thank you President Obama. It's a hoot to have the gop threaten to overturn this. I guess they will just ask all those who have and are going to benefit to just drop those benefits. They will ask us to return to the preexisting clause era. They will ask people to now drop their college students who were just added to policies to now drop them. Sure they will/sarc.

The gop know this won't be overturned. It's just a continuation of NO NO NO. It's a rallying point but it is something that will not happen. It's a money making issue for them.

john colangelo-2123217
Not all of us live in Mass. What is available to us that live somewhere else? Self employed get breaks that others don't.

Exactly dirtyharriet... I do not live in MA either. Have another idea john?

dirtharriet and Ellie Mae,

Have you considered speaking with an insurance consultant? I am not talking about your BCBS or UHC office, but an independent sales representative. My previous employer could not offer heathcare. I purchased an individual plan from BCBS and paid less than $100 per month ($500 deduct - PPO). I used that plan until I started my small business. We do offer health and dental to our staff. We reviewed many different plans from all carriers before deciding on our plan. If you do this, you will be able to see all pricing, benefits and limitations of all plans available to you in your area if rules or other local laws affect coverage. You can pretty much choose any type of coverage. There were complete coverage plans that were extremely expensive and there were plans that had a higher deductable with a very economic premium. Of course, you may see different solutions, but ask to see them all - not just what the BCBS rep wants you to see. Hope that helps a little. The best advise I can give is 1) Check your options - we cannot be forced by gov't, employers or the insurance providers to choose a particular plan or carrier; and 2) build a budget and plan for necessities first. Not saying you don't, but I have seen cable TV service or cell service preempt basic needs.

Yes, thank you also...

Yes thank you also. My husband works for a medical supply company. When those taxes kick in, the company will have less money to offer to their employees in the form of a raise. Guess I will have to tighten the purse strings some more.

How can you be complaining if you don't even know the answer to this question.

Thank you President Obama. It's a hoot to have the gop threaten to overturn this. I guess they will just ask all those who have and are going to benefit to just drop those benefits. They will ask us to return to the preexisting clause era. They will ask people to now drop their college students who were just added to policies to now drop them. Sure they will/sarc.

The gop know this won't be overturned. It's just a continuation of NO NO NO. It's a rallying point but it is something that will not happen. It's a money making issue for them.

How can you be complaining if you don't even know the answer to this question.

How can you be so happy when you haven't seen the full costs of this bill?

He said, gushingly.

Disgusting.

Why they were labeled as "death panels" is beyond me? When they start rationing health care, particularly to our elderly citizens, then we will see how people feel..

I agree with your post. There are some good things in this bill. In fact, some of those good things are exactly what I assumed needed correcting. This administration and congress pushed it to far.

Healthcare is already rationed, by ability to pay. ALL countries ration care. Of course being on corporate/government insurance you wouldn't know how the other half live. Your ration care statement is the same one made by the people who came up with the term "death panels". Go sell another policy..

edit -deleted reply, misunderstood

I could not agree with you more.... This health care bill was fashioned by the lobbyists of Medical and Insurance Mafia Lords, who sent them to "negotiate" with our spineless politicians behind the closed doors....

Does anyone remember the speeches of B. Obama, when he gave them to starry eyed crowds? He said, he will not allow lobbyists to have say in making health care laws... Oh, really?! Why, that's just exactly what he did....

But is not just him! It's the whole dog-gone system.... it's dripping with corruption, it's decayed so far, being saturated with corruption through greed and apathy toward citizens of this country, that's beyond salvaging. We the people, have no one to make laws for us to protect us, they, our politicians , all are washed out and worthless parasites who live on fat salaries payed to them by labors of the people, but don't give a @#&% about the people which they use to further their political pursuits....

I broke my arm 3 weeks ago, and my hospital bill is (for less then 24 hr. stay) $30.000. This does not include the doctor's charge, which is yet to be revealed!... This was an eye opener for my husband. He said, we've got to get out of this country! I really believe he means it! No other civilized, modern country allows such heavy burdens on their citizens, for the gain of the feudal lords who rule in it.... Yes, indeed, that's what we're seeing here in this country Neo-Feudalism!!! Do you who doubt it, read the history! It bears an eerie similarity with what's going on in this country. And the bill they fashioned will not bring any relief. So long they can jack up prices, and no one puts a damper on their greed, we the people will see more abuses, more bankruptcies, more of our jobs going offshore, more people without health care, more dying without it. We the people have been sold to the highest bidder, and yet so many still think we don't need any change... How pathetic!

I am sorry to hear about your arm and the associated bills. I hope (no pun intended) that you have some sort of insurance to help offset the costs.

Hope - I'm guessing that $30.000 means thirty thousand dollars?? Understand that is extremely negotiable. They charge what they would like and then you negotiate it down. It does not cost that much to set a broken arm - anyone knows that. They have to inflate prices so the insurance companies don't completely gouge them and reimburse them nothing for provision of services. Let me ask you this though: how much is your arm worth to you?? What would life be like if it did not function properly?? And do you want some hack setting it or a pro?? Do you want someone to guess how to set it or to use the latest imaging technology to get it right?? My guess is that you value your arm and want the best care possible. But that care comes at a cost, a cost that needs to be shared by the patient. Is 30 grand a lot?? Yeah, probably too much. But in the grand scheme of things we are talking about healthcare and getting an arm of a human being fixed. If only both insurer and patient understand that concept.

Dano are you the doctor that has yet to send the bill? You want to pay for all your medical education with just one patient's charges?

How much do you need food, electricity, gasoline, a house, a car, clothes, etc. I think you need to pay more for those because it takes carbon based products to produce them and that hurts the environment.

Get real.

Even if I was the doc 30 large wouldn't TOUCH tuition for medschool!!

My point is that there is a cost associated with everything including health care and many patients simply don't uderstand that. Call it entitlement, ignorance, whatever, but it's fact that too many people think healthcare is free and it simply is not. Reform needed to happen, but making the gov't an even bigger payor is not the answer. Making healthcare delivery more efficient is the crux of the matter, but even then there is still a cost and I firmly believe that patients need to bear some of the the burden of that cost.

Stunned. yes we have insurance , and it's premium is $1,200 monthly. Insurance payed the hospital $12,000, no idea of doctor's fees yet, and we have to come up with 20% copay plus deductible. If we had no insurance, we would have to pay the whole amount of 30,000, because our (moderate) income would not put us in a category to have it written off or reduced. This is nothing new, and those are the reason for many bankrupcies in this country.....

My story is just to bring a point across. There is a terrible injustice in our system and no end of it in site.

As for your comment, Dano, I will not even bother to respond. Your vision of truth/reality is, let's say, so narrow that you could not pick out even the obvious what I was saying. But no surprise there... we have airwaves full of fear mongering propaganda, that preys on narrow minds to influence them for the benefit of those who push it...

I have nothing else to say. To those who can see reality, what I say is obvious. To the others, nothing else will do....

Good evening, everyone!

You have no response about bearing some of the cost for state-of-the-art healthcare?? How is my comment narrowminded?? I would call it hard truth about the double edged sword of healthcare in America. We have the best healthcare and it's because it's profit driven. Profit drives innovation. If you want second rate care and are willing to suffer the consequences of it, then fine. Just realize that these hospital bills, while inflated, do reflect the fact that proper modern healthcare has a cost and the justification for that cost is that you get the full use of your arm back (in all likelihood you won't even know it was ever broken).

What did you win?

Was this directed at me? If so, you might want to try taking some lessons on reading comprehension. Here's your first one, when trying to show one's intellectual superiority it dilutes the effect when using atrocious punctuation or making up words.

lol...you won?....i would hold off on the celebrations untill after the @!$%# hits the fan in 2014, when all these delicious health care goodies need to be payed for.

we won you lost is a prime example of the division rampant in our country, ultimately tearing us apart and destroying the greatest nation in the world. partisan politics and their followers, thank you so much for your emotion and fear based voting.

Amen fire. It never ceases to amaze me how everything now has to be either one side's way or the other. Maybe some day we will again live in a country where right and wrong matter more than winning or losing. The sad thing is so many of the rabid followers on both sides don't even see who their true master is, the almighty dollar.

Stunned-1980698,

I've read many of your comments on this thread and heartily agree with most.

I am disappointed that we did not obtain a single payor system, public option or medicare for all. I don't believe in healthcare for profit. I don't believe in an HMO standing between me and my physician. I know we needed reform and I think one side wanted it so bad that they allowed the other side to gut it. It is my hope that HCR gets reformed on down the road many times until we truly get what this country should have. I work. I pay and have been paying for HC for 43 years so i am not looking for a hand out. Health Insurers give outrageous bonuses and salaries when they don't heal anyone anywhere. Why is that?

It's exactly as I said in my earlier post. Many uninsured go to the ER, get treated, then default on the bills. This forces hospitals to either cut non-profitable services or pass on the costs to those who do pay. Both are nothing but a vicious cycle that, to my knowledge, this bill does nothing to address.

Except this is EXACTLY what the law addresses. That's why everybody has to have insurance (which the law addresses), either through their employer or the pools (also addressed), with subsidies for lower/middle income folks (also addressed) so we don't have this situation making it difficult for everybody. Here is a link that has a good summary of the law:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03/21/us/health-care-reform.html

Here is one that summarizes the effects on physicians:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/hsr-impacts-practice.shtml

And here is one that gives a timetable of the changes.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/8060.cfm

Enjoy!

Oh get over it. Republicans offered alternatives, you and people like you turned off your hearing aids and took off your reading glasses..

McCain's 5K tax break which his own experts said wouldn't help the people who couldn't afford it. Go drink some tea, how about some nice British tea, from a country who cover ALL their people for half the cost. Ration us some more.

Toby, I guess you haven't been keeping up with the latest news on Britians national health care woes, right? Now go drink some drano...

Perhaps the next time my son comes to visit you could let him know how bad his health care is in that evil socialist country. Tell him that the 32 British pounds he pays weekly is so much more than what we pay. Tell him the six pound and 85 pence for a prescription for any medication is too much. Let him know that just because he pays nothing else for healthcare how bad his coverage is. Let him know how a whole new market could be opened up there by letting our insurance companies in to suck off his paycheck just like thay suck off ours. Explain to him how when he was born he received that rationed care that you speak of. (Jane Seymour's father delivered him). Tell your congressman of the need to build military hospitals in Britain to provide service to the 100,00 plus service members and their families there. We can't have them receiving that same medical care that every British citizen receives. Let them know you support the troops and do not want them further exposed to the British National Health Service for their care. There is a congresswoman in Mn who has the same Fox News opinion you do. Death panels/rationed care = same thing. Scare mongering.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

Here ya go Toby.. Sorry you couldn't do your own leg work...

irenermiscione-1

Thank God this has finally started kicking in. Also, anyone that feels that this will put too much pressure on the insurance companies need only to look at their profits this quarter. Thank you President Obama and all the democrats who waged this war alone. People take note: your republican friends did not want to subject their friends in the health care business to any sort of regulation. I for one am very glad this is starting to come to pass.

How about if this Democrat feels it will put too much pressure on the average Joe. I guess you're one of those that doesn't have to pay so you don't care about those that do.

Thanks for the interesting post that you reposted, look above. One thing you might not know is British papers are very partison. Also, the British public is up in arms about this leaked information and see exactly what cuts are actually made. My son's grandfather didn't read this paper, he had his hip replaced at age 87 in the Spring. It was right for him as he is still very mobile. For all the scare mongering about lack of care there, you haven't even touched on any cases here. Why is that? Again, write your congressman to get building those hospitals in Britain so our service members won't be subjected to that substandard care. And talk of budget cuts in that article, that debt you talk of, the British are the third largest holder of our debt. Help pay our debt off for another war and send a check over there. Pay off our debt and shortcomings before you falsely speak of others.

Toby, no offense but are you posting from the Psychiatric Center computer room again?

ROLFLMAO.. Ha Ha.. Now the British papers are partisian...

Perhaps you check out page three of the Sun every day. Keep reading about it, try living it. There is no advantage of a European living here legally in becoming an American citizen. With a major health crisis they simply return to their own country. The place where they don't put a lean on your house due to medical bills and corporations, including American corporations, pay their fair share of their employees health insurance. But if you say it enough, it must be true. Let's hear you bash Swedish health care next, or have you read about their system also. I haven't heard you comment back on any points yet, just yell liar and keep blabbing the same thing. Again, support those troops stationed in those evil socialist European countries and start building US hospitals there.

finally, something worth commenting too! Insurance got REALLY FAT during Bush Jr's. Admin. Yes, this bill is not going to change much in the big scheme of things, but its a start. A start to a situation that should have been addressed 25yrs ago. Sadly, cash is king and the kings have a lot of it stat.(97%) correct? Baby steps, at least it has been addressed. Of course its my back up plan to start learning Chinese. The meek shall inherit the earth.

Toby-365107,

Enjoy your posts on this topic. We want to think the we have the best HC in the world but that is not entirely true. We have great medical professionals. That is without a doubt, but our system is flawed.

There should be NO PROFIT on our health. The Health Companies (notice I did not say "Care" since they don't provide such) should not be between a patient and the doctor and profit by doing so.

No one should lose their home because of medical bills that, quite frankly, are outrageous.

They aren't howling because this bill does nothing but line their coffers by adding to their client list. Sure, they take a hit on having to cover those they would previously reject but they expect to make that money back and more with all the young, healthy people who are forced to buy coverage. It doesn't fix the underlying issue of spiraling medical treatment costs.

Don't you people understand? The insurance companies will not suffer one bit from this, just the opposite their profits will go up. For example, when a natural disaster hits and insurance companies have to pay out enormous claims, they raise everyone's premiums to cover any shortfalls so they can maintain their profit margin.

It is the taxpayers that will bare this burden, and as we all know, that group continues to shrink.

Stunned is right, they should have addressed the healthcare cost along with insurance reform and tort reform.

Please pray for this country!

I would trust Government before I would trust Wall Street and multi national corporations, you know the ones behind the Tea Party movement.

Yes, I'm ashamed you're an american citizen also.

Jail or the psych ward.

It does sound like you're ready.

Just some friendly advice Larry, you might want to watch making public statements which can be construed as a threat on the president's life. The secret service tends to frown on such things.

That was his other brother Larry.

Wait, you work for a company that provides health-care workers to the military and they don't offer insurance to their employees? Now that is just plain crazy......

Just like many companies who hire subcontractors to do the work they bid on so they don't have to cover health and workman comp insurance. (ex: Directv/Dish installers).

Your flex health insurance is mostly paid for from your employer, The government, in that very generous compensation package. That's what they call it when people who have government jobs get most of their health insurance paid for with tax money. When we receive part of our care with government money you call it socialism.

Toby-365107

Your flex health insurance is mostly paid for from your employer

Sorry Toby you're wron. Flex spending is pre tax $s deducted from your check to cover unreimbursed medical costs. You decide the amount and your taxable gross is reduced by that amount. Your employer pays ZERO.

Toby doesn't know what he/she is talking about.. I don't think he/she has read the health care bill either.

Oh and Toby, I do not work for the government in any way, shape or form. The place where I work didn't even get any "stimulus funded" jobs.

A government employee pays a small amount toward their healthcare bill. The rest is paid by their employer, the US government, with tax money. If your employer pays nothing towards your care, welcome to real America. Most good companies pay 80% of employee costs and 50% of their families care. Cut that debt, reduce federal employees health insurance compensation to zero, no more taxpayer money, it's socialism.

toby, are you serious? What the heck does that last post of yours have to do with FSA's (Flex Spending Accounts)? You are the reason I have to object to my tax dollars being used to pay the health care for people with self induced illnesses such as yours.

One thing you can do is insult someone who disagrees with you. But you never really have an answer to anything put to you. I fully understand flex accounts, used one for dental a few jobs ago, yes I said job. Not all people who have insurance coverage have the attitude of "I"m OK, they hell with you". The poor in this country are covered by Medicaid, as bad as it is. People still living in poverty who work and are above Medicaid limits, or people who become ill and loose their coverage or can't afford it, are the ones that will be helped by this bill. Too bad we couldn't just buy into Medicare if we chose and left the profitering insurance company behind. That would be a better solution, but corporations run the government. You don't know one person who has lost everything due to medical bills through no fault of their own? I do know people in other Western countries laugh at our system. Most there invested in healthcare in the 1940's. I love the guy in one post here who was feed up here and was going to immigrate to Aussie land. Someone should tell them that their healthcare is socialised also. So give us your opinion of Swedish and French healthcare, I'll even give you problems with their systems.

Listen Mr Wonderful... This specific part of the policy is focused toward helping recent college grads and/or people that are in college. I'm a recent college grad and this policy would help me tremendously. Some of us have a stack of student loans, that your brain is clearly not capable of understanding, because mommy and daddy didnt pay for our COLLEGE.

Given the state of the economy, I know plenty of college grads that are working as waiters because we can't find decent jobs right now. And we are still paying $500-$1000 a month on students loans.... or more.

Do you think that any college grad WANTS to be on their parents insurance?

Do you think we went to college to be free-loaders that can't afford anything because we can't find a decent jobs?

I'm sure you are one of the far-right wing... And I can tell by your arrogant, judgmental, elitist attitude. But I'm going to go against my better judgement here and ask you to do one thing... THINK before you spew your small-minded, ignorant, dinosaur rhetoric. It doesn't make you sound superior. It makes you sound like an idiot.

a recent grad would be 22-23 when they get out. 26 seems to be pushing it. Probably has some connection to claiming ones child on taxes...

I'm sure you are one of the far-right wing... And I can tell by your arrogant, judgmental, elitist attitude. But I'm going to go against my better judgement here and ask you to do one thing... THINK before you spew your small-minded, ignorant, dinosaur rhetoric. It doesn't make you sound superior. It makes you sound like an idiot.

Ha, that's a good one! They do seem to have an ability yo overlook the real issues and facts associated with them.....But one thing they know to do, is put everyone in the same category, calling all those who see our failing, unjust system lazy and freeloaders, wanting something for nothing... Blind bats with dysfunctioning radars!

Listen, some of you, ostriches!

We have a son who is past 26 years old, and will be out of VCU next year. He had to take out his own policy because of our existing crazy, insane system and it's life-draining claws- in- the -laws. Do yo know how long it takes to go to school for pharmaceutical research to earn a PhD?