'I always feel this element of danger,' doctor says, as concerns grow over violence against medical staff.
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comWhat Chinese hospitals need most: Police?
Seeded on Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:15 AM EDT (msnbc.com)
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I have lived in China for four years. This story is very accurate. One doctor told me I had a serious disease and needed many expensive tests and treatments. I declined. When I returned home to the US, my regular physician found nothing to even indicate I had the disease. That was two years ago, and still no symptoms.
I, too, have experienced supposed health care in China and know that it can drive anyone mad.
Yet another super power that is not not caring for the populace. It is time for change!
Exactly. We should send 1/2 the Mexicans in our emergency rooms to China.
Why not send all the Mexicans to China. Why do they use the Word Doctor when they didn't even graduate from high school.
"Drug sales are hospitals' second biggest source of revenue, and many offer incentives that can lead doctors to overprescribe or link doctors' salaries to the money they generate from prescriptions and costly diagnostic tests. Some pharmaceutical companies offer additional under-the-table inducements for prescribing drugs, doctors and experts say."
Sounds a lot like healthcare in the US
For living in china for four years, despite their underdeveloped health care system, how does it compare to life in the U.S. overall? This question is not at all to detract from the matter at hand, but it doesn't go without saying that here in the states Ive found many hospital staff guilty of totally inaccurate diagnosing of patients. Right down to many forms of cancer that either aren't as far along as reported to some patients and are most times treatable threw proper dieting, as poor eating is a catalyst for many forms of disease (i.e. liver cancer) What i think it boils down to is who has enough money. those who have a sufficient amount get top dollar care while the working class get the scraps...its more or less the same structure here in the U.S. Id have to say i agree suzanne and the Dr. above, its time for change, universal healthcare
You stated, "Cancer...most times treatable threw proper dieting..."
Uh, no it is not. Cancer is caused by a mutating gene. Proper eating will make you healthier, but it will NOT "cure" or stop cancer from occurring.
I do NOT believe that US doctors prescribe multiple drugs or several if any diagnostic tests for people with colds. And US people with colds don't typically go to the ER/hospital either as a person with insurance usually has deductibles that have to be met and some insurance companies won't pay for an ER/hospital visit unless specific criteria is met. If you don't pay the bill, (in the US) your credit is ruined and you would have bill collectors chasing after you for the rest of your life.
The exception may be illegals (Mexican or otherwise). Illegals don't have credit for the most part so they don't care if they are creating bills for which they have no intention of paying.
Barb,
I agree on some points, but a big problem ERs acroos the country are having is people showing up at the ER with conditions that could and should be treated in a physicians office. many of these are uninsured, but some are those that are having difficulty getting a doctors appointment. Ever try to get an appointment on a Saturday. And the urgent care centers are fairly useless. Litle diagnostics go on and you generally wind up with a prescription for some pain meds regardless of the condition or maybe a referal to the ER if it looks like its serious.
People continually malign the healthcare system here, but let me tell you, there are few that are more affordable and better. Yes, there are problems, but they are minor compared to many other places. I have had a severe chronic illness since I was 13 (over 35 years now) and I am so fortunte to have have been born American. I've spoken to a few Chinese Doctors, real college educated MDs)and they have said if I had been born in China I would never have survived or even treated.
This is why Obamacare scares me. Whenever a government starts pumping cash into these social programs, they become a focal point for graft and the unscrupulous. Just look at Medicare! I do agree that it is a travesty however to have so many, especially kids unable to get decent medical care. I'm talking about the middle class that are living just on the edge, who work hard, but can't get basic coverage.
I am not wealthy, and I pay over $12K each year for coverage for my family and generally max out my copays at 10K each year, and quite frankly, I'm happy that I have coverage with my needs. I think China is a prime example of what happens when governments become too involved and controlling. The populas begins to think that everything is a right and that they deserve to be given things.
If the insurance companies get their way, you will be dumped in a heartbeat. I work at a hospital, and I can tell you that insurance companies loathe people like you who actually need to use their product and are constantly working on ways to deny coverage or increase premiums. Anyone who thinks the current system is sustainable for the long term is living in a fantasy world. Whether it's more "Obamacare" or some convoluted system the Republicans dream up, there will be some kind of healthcare reform in the years to come.
There's no knowing for sure thatf there will be some kiind of health care reform in the future, but the present system, even with the recent changes simply is not working. It is inequitable and far too costly. Unfortunately, insurance companies are publicly owned and their first obligation is to the shareholders, not to the policy holders. And hospitals, paid by the insurance companies, have no incentive to hold down costs.
Steve, it is estimated that approximately 45,000 Americans DIE every year due to lack of insurance. (I wish I could quote the source, but I do remember reading that figure in a reputable article.)
It is not unusual in our country that when there are free clinics run every now and then in certain areas, people drive hundreds of miles because they can't get emergency care otherwise. These clinics will begin with hundreds even thousands of people lined up for hours and hours.....
If you have no insurance in our country, you often just can't get a doctor's appointment. So you have to wait until the problem is serious enough to go to the emergency room, and then pay a huge amount for something that could have been easily treated earlier. ANd if you are unemployed with no income (and some people have NO income, and I don't mean just perennial slackers either), you have to try to judge yourself if you can afford the fee and if you are sick enough to warrent the cost of seeking medical care.
And having no insurance is not a "cheapskate decision". It is often simply unaffordable, or unobtainable due to pre-existing conditions (I was refused because I had seen my doc a number of times over the years because of a bum knee that bothers me once in a while and I had been on an anti-depressant (thereby taking care of my problem!).
I have had economic ups and downs, sometimes have insurance, sometimes don't.....fortunately I have a decent family doctor who will see me no matter what the situation, but many people aren't as fortunate.
"Steve, it is estimated that approximately 45,000 Americans DIE every year due to lack of insurance. "
Give me a bleeping break, this widely quoted statistic has been proven false many times over. It is derived from taking the number of people who died that didn't have insurance and generally assuming that if they had insurance they would have gotten treatment that would have saved them. First, even people with insurance often wait too long to seek treatment and just because you have insurance it doesn't mean that your disease was treatable in the first place. What would have happened if they had insurance was that even more money would have been wasted on fruitless end of life care than is common now now in the USA. The vast majority of the average persons health care cost is spent in the last months of their life and a signicant chunk of that is wasted. That is a verifiable fact, BTW.
The health effect of insurance is being widely overstated and it has been proven over and over in many, many countries even countries with national health insurance. Health is probably the worst reason for health care rewform even though it is the one most thrown about because people through their ignorance of the topic latch on to it.
Reality, first, insurance companies would choose to not cover people with pre-existing conditions if they were able to, I agree. When I was young and had to go off my parents insurance, I could not get coverage, unless I got into a large group. I went without coverage foir a few years until I got married and was covered under my wife's plan. For the last 25 years I have had numerous plans through different carriers nad have never been denied treatment. I have heard horror stories too, but many of these involve lousy, inexpensive plans, or "desperation treatments" that are not yet approved.
Famous, Here is reality, the insurance companie, while not blameless have been thrust into the middle of the consumer patient / healthcare provider because the healthcare industry has become a monolithic cash cow, a money laundering operation for the healthcare industry, including; pharmaseutical companies , medical supply and equipment makers, Doctors, Nurses and medical support staff all making substantial profits. Imagine now what would happen if insurance companies just decidede to no longere offer any kind of health insuranec. What do you think would happen to the health care industry?
Yank,
It's not all that tough to get treatment in the US even if you have no coverage, at least for serious conditions. From my experience I have seen that many patients that have no insurance must resort to state programs or work their way into the system through emergency medicine. It's not optimal, but I see many uninsured people paying a lot less for the same care I get.
Do you know what US hospitals need most? They need to Deport the illegal aliens that use their emergency rooms to steal free health care from the country they are in illegally. Why don't we require restaurants to provide free food to illegal immigrants? Makes as much sense. Why pick on only the health care industry?
"Officials at all levels of government are on guard against unrest that could spiral and threaten the Communist Party's power" is an interesting comment. Communism failed miserably in the past so why would anything be any different today.? It's the same cheap rhetoric, antiquated ideas, and propaganda as before. The Communist leaders should be scared.
so.... even the commies dumped obamacare back in the '90s?
Wasn't there an article on this website about how a US ER needed full time police to protect the nurses from the patients? We need to run the ER patients into a metal detector to disarm them from their guns and knives before we can treat them.
I see little that is socialist in China. China is a pure dictatorship of the military and the Communist party.
We live in a capitalist society. This means that a child born to poor parents has a chance to become the CEO of a major corporation. Yes, that child will have to work harder than his wealthier peers but his work will be greatly rewarded. Capitalism does not reward those who are too sick to work, unable to speak English or those who are just plain lazy. Whether you are born in America or not, know the principles of this society. Money and top-tier health care are limited resources. Some will win, some will lose. This system can be quite brutal and painful for those who cannot get adequate preventative care. However, we have managed to largely standardize care for all patients, regardless of insurance, while in the hospital. It's the follow up that's a problem. Universal healthcare will remove the capitalist incentives for the most talented physicians and scientists. What will follow will be a dramatic loss of the ingenuity and tireless work ethic that the most talented individuals bring into a capitalist institution. Pick your poison.
Your position is total libertarian crap. You are espousing social Darwinism, a concept that has been shown time and time again to be false. Who are you that you should dictate a system where the weak and needy are disposed of? That's an ideology held by a minute fraction of Western society, since the built-in nature of most humans is to show at least some charity to those not as well off as they are. Your stance is not only inhumane, it is inhuman.
In November 2007, I was in Wuhan, China, and started throwing up - 4 times. My Chinese friend, a former nurse, called an ambulance and took me to a hospital emergency room. It looked more like a concrete block warehouse. Anyway, after the doctor visit, lab work, a shot for nausea, and antibiotics for the GI infection, my bill was $15 US.
The AP article linked below discusses emergency room use and wait times. It doesn't mention illegal immigrants as a problem.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38054844/from/toolbar
This is really with scary. A communist country practicing a market based capitalist economy WITH PROFIT FOR HIRE MEDICAL SYSTEM. Just look at China to see what we have waiting for us. stem is You fools that think our systems problems is because of illeagal aliens need mental help!
I lived in China for over five years, and obtained treatment at a number of different hospitals. My experience is only anecdotal, but I had good impressions as well as bad. There are extremely good, reputable hospitals in China, as well as hospitals that are terrible. Unfortunately, China is still a developing country with 1.3 billion people. The good thing is that there is a general awareness about the problems that exist in hospitals, as well as the prevailing situation with affordable care. The Chinese people I talked to were candid and open about the existing problems. There is a lot of public debate about what must be done. So, I believe there is a positive trend in people's thinking, that something must and will be done to make health care much better on the mainland.
I am amazed how no matter what the article is about, at least one person leaves a comment regarding illegal immigrants. Do they hire people to go around and do this, or are there really that many people who hate immigrants and have ALOT of spare time on their hands? Seriously, it is a joke.
We are all tired of bailing water. There is a big friggin hole in the boat. Let's stop being stupid and plug the hole as our first order of business. Then maybe we can start to catch up with this problem. I don’t expect Obama to understand this because it is common sense. He will only be around for two more years thank God.
I have lived and worked in China for over a decade now, and having had to use the Hospital system here, I can definitely say that it has made significant improvements in its care, delivery, and service during this time.
The article does hit a few points which are true about the Chinese health care system:
1. There is a growing gap between those that can afford and those that can't.
2. Those that can are being charged with unneccesary tests, drugs, etc. (it's happened to me.)
3. Those that can (i.e. foreigners) are routinely charged 2x or 3x or charged for the most expensive medicine.
In saying that - let me also say that like any health care system, you'll have your good and bad points. Like everything else in China, its growth and development has been uneven. But it's not like China's health care is stuck in the stone ages, or consists of acupuncture and herbal medicine only.
Like anything, if the first doctor I go to says I might have such and such, I do my due diligence and get it checked out by a second or third doctor. People in the US still do this too, I assume?
Finally, I don't understand why people choose to add their personal politics into an article that gives you a glimpse into another country's health care system. The point of the article is to open your eyes, not for people to hijack the thread and turn it into their own bully pulpit for commentary on the state of healthcare. You do that in your own blogs.
2 out of every 5 sick people go untreated, and only 1 in 10 have health insurance? Oh my God! If this keeps up China will be as bad as the United States!
The funny part is, that's no joke; just look at the numbers and think about it. (And they are what, in 188th place?)
The other horror-stories thankfully are not common here. Our medical care, as far as being advanced, is pretty much state-of-the-art, and Americans doctors are generally decent people. But the 'have-nots' are 'SOL' when it comes to real access; no insurance, no money-you'd better be dying or there's the door.
The only reason our uncaring health care system is not headline news everywhere is politics as usual.
The thing that really pisses me off is that I have to pay for my food in a fancy restaurant. When is Obama going to do something about that? I’m hungry.
"Four years ago, 2,000 people rioted at a hospital after reports that a 3-year-old was refused treatment because his grandfather could not pay $82 in upfront fees. The child died."
What the H*** is the use of living under an oppressive communist government if you still have to pay for health care?
I think the Chinese government had better reconsider protecting their doctors -- a finite number of individuals after all. It takes a good long while to train a doctor. Duh!
There are plenty of chinamen and apparently it doesn't take that long to train them over there.
"Chinamen"? Really? Is this 1910 or 2010? Seriously, you need to keep your racist comments to yourself.
Don't hate the chinamen.
If you are on unemployment then go visit your local emergency room. All day long you will see illegal immigrants having babies that are automatically American citizens. It will cheer you up to see US tax dollars spent in this heartwarming manner. Good luck surviving without a job by the way.
The hospitals need police? How about the grade schools? Every other day some chinaman is going bat stink with a knife.
Many of the schools now do have security guards and police protection, like so many US schools. And at least when the Chinese go bonkers, they can only get a hold of a knife because the country has proper gun laws. They don't suffer nearly the number of deaths as the US does from similar attacks (I think the max. number of deaths from one of these attacks is six; compare that to Columbine or Virginia Tech.)
Honest Chinese doctors? Say it isn't so.
If those Chinese doctors are to act honestly, they can't afford rent and car note.
Most importantly, they can't afford their misstresses!
Just goes to show you that communist oppression eventually elicits a reaction from even the most obedient sheep
What they need is more medical malpractice lawyers. That way the patients and their families would feel that they have a recourse and would not have to resort to violence. The experts would investigate to determine if malpractice had occurred. Doctors who had several malpractice losses would be denied insurance and would not be able to work. Why do they not have this system in China??
Do you have the delusion that China is a free country? Sue a doctor or hospital, not very likely. Do doctors even need insurance to work in China?
"Four years ago, 2,000 people rioted at a hospital after reports that a 3-year-old was refused treatment because his grandfather could not pay $82 in upfront fees. The child died."
I'll say it again...
What the H*** is the use of living under an oppressive communist government if you still have to pay for health care?