Nice, overly-simplified generalization, which completely misses the point of the article. You must be a Teabagger.

Read headline...post comment!

You must be a Teabagger.

In fact, I'm a Proud Tea Party Member !

Wanna join ?

Send the bill to the family of these inmates.

oh that makes alot of sense.

How about doing work for the state like stamping licence plates? Making road signs? printing forms?

The healthy, able-to-do-manual work minimum security guys like drug users, DUI manslaughter (didn't mean it but got his due punishment for it), bad check writers, forgery guys, etc., can be put to work on the roads (guarded carefully of course)...The money saved by the state in not having to pay outside contractors to do the work could go a long way in helping to pay for their incarceration....

Sounds good to me..

And they wouldn't be "slaves" either, they'd just be earning their keep, thats all...

I forgot to add, it might also help to eliminate a few of those overpaid, underworked government employee jobs.... :)

Oh right, over paid and underworked gov't employees. You ever work in a jail or prison? You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to prison/jail guards.

This ACLU clown alludes to stiff sentencing and three strike laws for the increased cost of housing inmates through their twilight years as some warped justification for exactly what? Releasing them back into society where someone else will have to address/fund their needs? As a general rule, people require added care as they age and this is true whether or not one is incarcerated.

I noticed this fellow made no mention of a reduced crime rate that many attribute to the harsher prison sentences.

As a general rule, people require added care as they age and this is true whether or not one is incarcerated.

Excellent point.

If there is a system in America that more closely mirrors the failure of the public too make informed judgments than the penal system, I don't know what it is.

Created by a public, terrified by criminals AND the people who run the system, it is funded via reactionary legislators who trade on the fear of the public and feed at the trough of union contributions from Correctional Officers. The recidivism rate is sky-high and the return on our investment makes Bernie Madoff's scheme look like a stunning success.

The criminals who go in are returned to the streets even more vicious than when they were imprisoned. The "us vs. them" mentality inside the prison walls is not unique to the prisoners but includes a staff similarly inclined. Too many wardens think The Shawshank Redemption is a training film.

Those who clamor for executions do not understand the arbitrary nature of the imposition of the death sentence, and even worse have no clue how often innocent people are condemned. I'm not talking technicalities, I'm talking wrongful convictions.

Spend two weeks inside the walls of a prison. If you have the capacity to learn you will understand that the only difference between the inmates and the staff is that you voluntarily give your money to the staff. However, just as you involuntarily hand you money over to an armed robber, the results are the same. You get nothing for your money.

The justice system is a disaster from top to bottom.

David Walker excellent posting. Glad you joined in the conversation.

BJs:

YOU must be a prison guard...I wanst talking about getting rid of guards, I was talking about getting rid of some overpaid government contractors for road work, office work, etc...

Try comprehending better please.....

Well, releasing an 80 year old is pretty much ok with me depending on the crime. I think it's silly for anyone to be serving hard time for smoking a joint or stealing a slice of pizza all because one was hungry.

That was the case in California. The 3 strikes law that put a man away from taking a slice of pizza from some teens on the beach. Since he was convicted of two other small crimes, he's now sentenced to 25 years behind bars.

As for people that have committed murder and the evidence is there, then why wait 15+ years before an execution. The killer didn't give it a second thought before killing his victim. As for rapists and pedophiles, they all need to be sent to an island where they will need to grow and take care of themselves. Give them seeds and water, if they cannot survive, then too bad.

To balance the system out, these people in jail for small crimes should be released to work labor camps that will keep them out of trouble, but they have to work for their room and board.

Take out all the red tape in the current prison system and we can resolve a lot of these financial issues very quickly. However, if a person has cancer, a heart condition and needs medical care, regardless if the person is in jail or not, it's still going to cost the taxpayers one way or another.

My heart just goes 'pitter patter' thinking we take such good care of all the murderers , rapists, robbers, illegal aliens, and any other type of felon. Bullxxxx . As far as i am concerned they gave up their rights as soon as they were convicted.

But, our society is hell bent on taking care of everybody, whether they deserve it or not. Even if they are released, it wont solve the problem. you think they are going to go to work if they get out? Think again. It now puts them on welfare, mostly the feds problem, because we say we have to take care of the poor illegal, murderer, etc.

You just change the source of where the money for support comes from, now its out of the penal system budget when they were released, now the state/fed have the problem, but ultimately we pay.

Yes, reform is needed, but it would be a lot easier if we could do like England did at one time, send them to Australia........

Chunky-Monkey:

It would stand you in good stead to go back and check the story about the guy who took the slice of pizza. The guy was indeed a three-time loser and he threatened his victims with physical violence. This was not a nice man and his previous crimes were not "small".

For all the failures, shortcomings, and inadequacies of the current system, there really are people who should not be allowed on the streets.

I must agree with you, David. Because of our eye-for-an-eye attitude we are only breeding more criminals and spending much needed tax money incarcerating instead of rehabilitating. We are no better than third world countries--hell, lets just do what they do and cane, maime or stone to death. Here's where we could put our eye for an eye justice to real use!

Personally, I think the death penalty is barbaric and only put in place to fuel society's need for revenge. It's the Salem Witch trials all over again! Does a life sentence or the death penalty REALLY ease the pain for a murder victim's family?

Seems to me that incarceration stops serving its purpose when an inmate becomes so old, ill or infirmed that they no longer pose a threat to society. I, for one, would rather see my tax dollars spent on helping young people live rather than incarcerating the sick, old or dying.

Regardless, there are millions of peer-reviewed studies that have concluded that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent to crime and recidivism rates are squed by outlandish sentences imposed by judges during re-election.

Just my opinion...

having known cops across the country most of them think that mandator sentances are bad ideas. mostly and from the ones that i know they think this because then it is really hard to get the small timer crimials to roll over on the suppliers because they are still going to go to jail for the min time no mater what. the us vs them mentality is everywhere not just in prisons its in the military in different companies ect. Having known prisons guards the us vs. them mentality decrease as how dangerous the prisononer is. IE the us vs. them does not apply as much in min security prisons as it does in max. I can also understand why that is in max or on death row. what does the inmate care if he kills a guard? his life is over for the most part anyways. Hats off to General Patton more work less creature comforts. to Kate Rate and David Walker. some people are always going to get conficted wrongfully mistakes will ALWAYS happen. the death penality does not work because it is not used enough. the list of crimes that have the death penalty should be exspanded but it should also be used much more quickly. if there were exacutions ever day in every state for the crimes that are already on the books in those states then people mint think about what they are doing before they are done. also if there was a lesser time limit then prison may not be so crowded as they are. why does it matter if you are on death row and you draw it out of 10 years no one cares. Also and again in respond to Kate Rate the death sentance is not to, "ease the pain of a victims family," it is so the people the did the crimes are punished. if we start letting people out because they are old what are we going to do when those same people commite crimes again also the cost will increase for their care outside the prison system because the cost inside to care for an inmate is less then it is on the outside becuase the medical quality is not the same. again sorry for any spelling errors in the post

Patton, as a friend of BJs65, I can assure you that no, she is not a prison guard, but we both know people who are (at least county jail level) It is a dangerous job and these guys have to be on their guard at all times. There's a lot of jobs in prisons that cannot be entrusted to the inmates. Those that can be - fine - let them work but guess who is going to have to babysit these guys while they are working and hope they don't use the tools to rip each other up?

I'll let these inmates come work for you in your office. Yeah, that might help.

The guards.

Telling someone to "comprehend better" is rich (in sh*t) - especially coming from you.

rippin' flippin' editing. Oh well.

The USA incarcerates more people than any other country in the world. Our sentences are longer and more severe. Our inattention to poverty and dysfunctional andallowing our citizens to be uneducated just increases the probability a person will grow up and spend their life behind bars.

Disgusted in NY:

Straight jacket too tight this evening?

Never once did I knock prison guards, they earn their money...

Try reading my post again, from a different angle this time instead of from the left...

Why should we? You never listen to anyone who disagrees with you anyway.

Have a nice day.

The good thing is that people like you rarely get to a place in life where your opinion makes much difference. I wonder how many people you've hurt in life would like one of your eyes.

I agree with Peter....It should be an eye for an eye...Death penalty should be more common.

Agreed with peter also. The right's movement people think its torture. No, the family has to live with the thought of what that person did to their son, daughter, brother, or sister. THATS TORTURE.

so what you're saying is: kill the murderers, sexually assault the sexual offenders, assault the violent assailants, i suppose deprive drug offenders of drugs<(what to do here?)give everyone else a two year sentence, and then let them who survive your justice, go?

I have read dozens of stories of prisoners in the US who have been released from prison, sometimes after 10, 215 or 20 or more years of incarceration, after DNA analysis of evidence proved they were not guilty of the crime.

The justice system is NOT perfect! have you never read about cops who withold or fabricate evidence, clever lawyers who successfully argue for conviction based on flimsy circumstancial evidence and corrupt or incompetent judges? Would you want some of those people determining your fate? Would you want some of those people having the power of life and death over you when you know you are innocent of the crime for which you are accuse?

Remember folks, it might be YOU who will sit on death row some day because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and falsely accused of committing a capital offense.

If an innocent person is convicted and imprisoned and later found to be innocent, they can be released from prisoner but an executed person cannot be released from death!

I agree in part with the death penalty. For some offenses execution would be justice. However, I simply do not trust any justice system to be so unfailingly accurate as to be trusted to execute the actual guilty party, each and every time with no errors.

Just as it is better that 10 guilty go free than one innocent be convicted, it is better that all be imprisoned for life than one innocent be executed.

That's why it should be an eye for an eye

You assume the purpose of government is vengeance, rather than protecting life and property. The latter does not require the former.

An eye for an eye? All you get are two blind people. Unbelievable we are living in the 21st century with talk like this. Sounds like we need an old witch burning too. This is a very complex problem, voters demanded longer prison terms, and these three strike rules which effectively takes away a judges discretion on legal sentencing is to blame. Then throw in a recession economy and you have a disaster. Kill them? Really? Often times and it has been actually proven to exist is the disparity regarding competent lawyers representing indigent clients and mistakes in death penality cases are often made. I do not believe justice is served if one innocent man is killed in our prison system. How little all of you value a human life by putting a price tag on it's worth.

In some places in the world its off with there heads for those crimes. Also most government job dont pay that much. Also most of the state are cutting cost on a lot of thing that is pay and jobs too. So think before you write it down and post it.

James, your premise is entirely wrong. Frequently the only way to achieve the latter is the former.

If the State had discharged its obligation to the People properly by ridding us of Province and McCluskey, Linda and Gary Haas would still be alive.

Killers, rapists, etc decide their own fate. The State merely sees to it that consequences are carried out. At least, it should. Swift execution would take care of myriad ills.

Well, ANTI-USA, the killing of an innocent person has worked out before. Just ask the Christians.

Sounds like we are going to generate a bunch of elderly criminals who can't/won't afford health insurance. Commit a crime, get convicted and get healthcare for free. What a marvelous concept and solution to health insurance issue! :(

and now that we had DNA so now that more of the cons on death row where convected with it? i would that would make those that are put on death row now are more likely to be guilty of the crimes that they where convicted for... Anti -USA and what about all the guilty people that have gone free because of a slick lawyer or flimsy evidence? also the USA should be feared across the world look that the military mite we have. part and a large part of the reason we are hated is because of our freedoms. I will also not hold it again people that hate me if they hate me because of the propaganda that their state owned and run goverment feeds then or the propaganda that their religous leaders feed them.

Agreed. Frankly, they should not be given life-saving treatment. Put them on comfort care only. Let them fade away.

so it's their kids fault?

It probably would be cheaper to release them, get them on Medicaid and put them in a home. If you were sure they were too sick or infirmed to hurt anyone.

Please explain how i gods name it the familys job to take care of an aged prisoner who if example was in for drug charges and never recieved treatment???????? Or the family who's father killed their mother how is it their problem to care for someone, I too work my butt off hold two jobs and currently raise 8 children (fostercare) most of whom have parents in the system so I see both sides BUT would you except my son or daughter at 18 right out of foster care to care for the sick person that put them all their life. the answers are not so black and white.

veritas_aequitas: It's certainly not my fault that he is old and sick. Why should my taxes be made to pay for this guy to get better health care than 50% of the people who have done nothing wrong in their lives? It's not his kid's fault either, but, they are family and they should be taking care of their own. I, personally, feel that ALL inmates, in jail or prison should be made to earn their keep. This can be through any number of jobs - landscaping, license plate making, furniture making, etc. All prisons should be required to use inmate labor to build new facilities or buildings within their own prisons - use the inmates for upkeep too - at least, they would be learning a trade. EVERY prison should be required to produce it's own food - gardens, crops, livestock, farming - and every prisoner should be required to do their stint in producing that food. There should be no TV, unless the prisoner or their families pay for it, no telephones, no down time of any variety unless the prisoner does not have a high school education - then, he is required to complete his GED during his off times. There should be no free college or free lawyers - they must pay for everything - just as if they were outside. Also, only basic medical attention, such as a homeless person would be eligible for. Prison or jail should not be a pleasant place to be - it's punishment. Then, maybe we wouldn't have so many in ill health and living better than people outside.

Look at it this way. I know a family where the kids were molested by their father, who was sent to prison.

Their mother was left with three kids to care for - no child support, as scumbag was in prison.

Would you suggest these kids take care of their father? Spend their hard-earned money for his care?

Not on your life.

People forget - families of the criminal are (usually) innocent victims as well.

I'm with all who would just line up child molesters and shoot them, like the scum they are. They can't be rehabilitated so why keep them on this earth? They have no use in society. If any group of people need a death penalty, it would be these.

I suppose you would rather have child molesters kill their victims which is probably what would happen if they knew they would be executed anyway. No witnesses that way. Most child molesters don't kill their victims. I agree that they don't necessarily deserve to live, but I can't see how killing them would make things better.

no matter if you release them or not, they will continue to cost taxpayers money. very few of these released inmates will be able to fend for themselves or have any sort of health coverage. therefore it will fall upon taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Prison is to be about rehabilitation. Currently, it is not. It is for profit. I know of several young teenage men who in the 1960's committed crimes. One is now a CPA. Then in order to get out on parole, they had to have a job waiting. Then employers felt it part of their civic duty to aid the rehabilitation and would hire those leaving prison. He received a job with a messenger service. He never went back to prison. He went on to community college then a four year college and is now a contributing citizen. One of the reasons for so much recidivism is the fact that they cannot find a job and are forced back to crime to make ends meet.

Politicians have made this such a hate/divide and conquer issue for election that has hurt the country with high recidivism rates and high cost of incarceration.

Its cuz of people like Scooby Poo Poo, we have laws like these tday...Tht r unfair 2 hard working & honest society.

it's scooby poo poo's fault now? c'mon people, think about it before you post.the inmates will cost american taxpayers money no matter what. besides the article is about elderly or disabled inmates. do you think thet will be able to take care of themselves without government support of somekind? believe me, i don't like it either, but thats just the way our bleeding heart country works.

Steph, I've read every one's entrys. I have to say that as simple as your statement is, It's the most intelligent one on the page.

Steph's comment intelligent?!

It's so poorly written as to be gobbledy-gook. Her spelling, grammar, syntax and punctuation are atrocious.

ok, i read everything you had to say. and my responce is this. one of my family members is a victom of criminal sexual conduct. and, he went to prison for a very long time. not too long ago. but, if they would have offered a death sentence in court to me or my family member. i would have said no. why? because that is a religious belief. and there is no way i will have anothers death at my judgement day. i would not want him to be released. but, some day he will be. and what kind of resources, treatment, he gets while in prison, makes all the difference in when he is released if he re-offends with the same crime. without treating the sickness, there will be no change.

Because it's better to execute 20 innocent men than to let one guilty one go free! Right? (We've NEVER convicted anyone by mistake. Like Meese said: "They wouldn't be a suspect if they weren't guilty.")

"I'd be a burden on my kids," said the native Texan. "I'd rather be a burden to these people."

That's you and I, people. Why should we have to pay for him to have three meals a day, free medical, an electric scooter, a library, etc.? I am 73, fighting my second bout with cancer, able to walk barely. I can't get a free scooter because I get $60 per year over the income allowed. If I were not living with my daughter, who hauls me everywhere I have to go and fixes my meals, I could not make it. Yet, I have never committed a crime. Where is the justice in these prisoners having a better life than I can make for myself? I'm making it personal, because that's what I know; but think of all the elderly out here who lead miserable, no medical treatment lives while their taxes pay for these murderers, robbers and rapists to have a good life. It should be their family who pays for their care. If they were not in prison and had a heart attack or stroke, their family would have to foot the bill. Not that it's a good example, but in China, when an offender is put to death, the family is sent a bill for the bullet. We are the opposite extreme of that apparently. Kill someone and we will support you in comfort the rest of your life. Something is wrong with this equation.

BILOXIPAT: If you had actually READ the entire article, you would know that the state didn't buy the scooter; his family did.

You are comparing us to China now? You really want to go down that road? Where they have no concern for individual rights, and entire communities are pushed aside for a Dam, with little or no compensation? Where there are no rights for employees to work in a safe environment, and people are regularly poisoned by food from lax oversight? You must really hate America.

acidrain

But let's also look at the fact that, whether they are old or not, they're in for a reason. As for as China's system, look at the outsourced jobs they have received. Their legal system do not allow for someone to plea bargain out of something. As for as the poisoning by food, I'd need a link for that, but in all fairness, we that here to.

I just find it strange that people always forget to mention the fact that we have the best legal system money can buy. Sad thing, it's proven every day.

acidrain

Where there are no rights for employees to work in a safe environment

Maybe during the Cold War, it's a whole different ball game now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38726105/ns/business-forbescom/

Cajun, the simple fact is they DO NOT HAVE THE WORKER RIGHTS OR SAFETY STANDARDS of the US. Things brought to you by liberals, mostly.

I assume you are referring to this from the article: "It appears China is beginning to exit that phase and enter the next, of treating its workers better. In the past year Chinese workers have been allowed to form unions and strike for higher wages and shorter hours at various auto and electronics plants."

Good for them. It still doesn't change the fact that they are taking baby steps, and there is a lot of government suppression.

Unions?

acidrain

Might be because they have a lot of standards that we don't. One a better ethics then this country. But if they are only taking baby steps...

Over the last ten years China’s economy has surged past those of Canada, Spain, Brazil, Italy, France, and Germany, and is expected to pass Japan this year, to become the second largest economy in the world, behind the U.S.

I think it's more than just baby steps. Just my opinion though. Yes, there is a lot of government suppression, but I see little difference between their suppression and being ignored by our government. One just as bad as the other.

Hahahha! That's hilarious. Better ethics?

A surging economy doesn't mean better standards and better rights for it's citizens, no matter what the crazy right wing says in this country.

You really don't see any difference? WE GET TO VOTE NEW PEOPLE IN. Ignored by our governemnt? I assume you are somehow referring to general policy? Obama won, get over it. He was elected, and he'll do the job he was elected to, and maybe he'll get re-elected and maybe he won't. Or maybe you are referring to prop 8 in California? It doesn't matter if a majority of people voted for it, it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL to inflict the will of the majority on the minority.

You need to get your head checked if you really think we are anything like China. Stop listening to Glenn Beck for a few nights; you'll live a lot happier.

another well thought out post.

Not so, older patients that require multiple surgeries to keep them alive on top of the normal housing and feeding costs would cost more than to execute. The costs of execution are court costs, of which many appeal now anyway without execution, so the cost measurements are very flawed.

Let the muslims take care of them, it is written in the koran that they should do this and the commander in chief and president of the USA says they should have that right.

once again, well thought out...j/k

Depends on what your definition of "everything" is. In this instance, "everything" means just the essentials. It's not even close to normal coverage; stop with the straw man arguments.

Old Charlie should have the right to profess his religion and serve his god whereever it should be.

i think you've watched starship troopers to many times.

Let us not forget the rare individual who is innocent of the crimes for which they've been incarcerated. Quite frankly, I feel that anyone (other than a victims loved ones) who would want to watch a televised death sentence being carried out is a step away from being a murderer themselves.

are you here to just voice ill thought out garbage?

It will take them sometime to figure out they need to lower the wage of the CEO of the system in order to make ends meet.

Actually the prison system is designed to keep the criminal population seperated from the civil population. Rehabilitation is a goal only after that is met. Unfortunately most criminal behavior that gets criminals placed into prison is not so easily corrected. Being an ex police officer I have seen many of the "people" and how they act in prison. Their are a few, very few, who want to be rehabilitated. Most of them continue to commit crimes even while in prison, including crimes as bad as assault, rape, and murder.

As for your comment of an infirm person being unable to commit murder, there was a case a few years ago in my state where a 80 year old man in a wheel chair brutally killed his wife. She was NOT confined to a wheelchair. Apparently he got fed up with her nagging him all them time (not a joke). True, it is unlikely that he will have the oppertunity to kill again, but don't think just because a person is old they are disabled.

Lastly these inmates actaully get better care in the system than they will if released. It is a shame that people the same age who never committed a crime will have difficulty paying for required medical care, while taxpayers have to pay for inmates care. I think that Texas had a good idea when they had inmates work for a living inside the prison. Teach them a skill and have them pay for their burden like everyone else.

If we would stop aresting people for drugs, then we can aford to keep dangerous inmates in prison untill they die. You conservitive cant lock every one up, then expect to lower taxs. that not the way it works. You cant have it both ways. you silly christians run scared, and you should. Most of your propaganda is based on fear. We incarserate more people than any other nation. I like it when the system gets bauged down. Maybe after enough of you rich folks have your taxs doubled, you will get it through your thich christian skull, that you cant just lock everyone up that dosnt agree with you. Your prisons are full of pot heads. Then you wonder why you cant aford to house violent inmates. Maybe having violent old people on the streets, will help you see the folly of your ways. I believe that we should allow the system to colapse, under its own weight. This will forse us to look at who needs to be in jail, and who dosent. But we want you christians to feel safe and warm. Wouldnt want you to have to be around us evil pot heads. And to sammcgee, Texes has had a lot of things, But one thing they have never had, is a good idea!

Both of you are right - the prison system is supposed to both rehabilitate, and protect the public from violent offenders. Instead, it's being used to punish. We should be advanced enough as a civilization where we don't need use punishments on other human beings, to purposefully cause pain (mental or physical) as a means to 'make them sorry' - we should have methods to rehabilitate them so they can go back to society and function.

For an example where this is successful, look at Sweden's prison system. It is more of a group-home setup where prisoners are taught life skills and are actually rehabilitated, instead of being thrown in a cage where they're raped, beaten, and taught how to become a better criminal, as happens in US prisons.

Apologies for the double post.

please read the article before you post. it was about the disabled and elderly prisoners, not revamping the system to execute murderers to relieve costs.