Would have been easier to have eliminated those who have the most trouble getting insurance by letting anyone over 50 buy into Medicare. I don't understand how those great plans offered to federal employees DO NOT have pre existing condition clauses. Those in governemnt who want to keep things just as they are should scale back their own plans. The ones we pay for. When they receive health insurance paid for with OUR tax money it's called a compensation package. When we receive that same health insurance it's called socialism. They can't have it both ways. Let's cut taxes.

Sorry to disappoint you. I support real health care, rather than health insurance reform and I live in MA. Obama’s plan is modeled on the failing Romney care plan we have now. It is doomed to fail. Cost is off the wall and it is almost impossible to find a primary care physician. The idiotic mandate has failed and the state has had to give so many waivers that it is meaningless. Provider administrative costs are climbing. Our wonderful politicians are looking to return to capitation (which failed miserably in the 90s) and even taxing hospitals to support insurance companies as solutions to the mess. All of this in a state with a comparatively very low uninsured rate and a large number of “non-profit” insurers.

One thing that MA has demonstrated is that the idea of providing universal health care coverage by buying commercial health insurance doesn’t work.

quagmire,

To people that lived under their boots, fascists, communists, and socialists were all the same, brutal self serving dictators.

You make a distiction without a difference.

Rev,

I completely agree. I also live in MA, and since this has gone into effect, our premiums have skyrocketed, healthcare costs are up over 50% and finding a primary care physician is next to impossible. I had to wait over 3 months to get in to see a new doctor when I moved. I've since moved again, and I commute about a hour to see my doctor just because I don't want to deal with the hassle and uncertainty of finding a new one.

The projected costs for this plan has gone up by over $100 million per year to the state than when it was first enacted in 2006.

The four major healthcare providers in MA (Tufts, Harvard Pilgrim, Blue Cross, and Fallon) have all posted major losses because of the escalating costs but regulation that doesn't allow them to raise premiums to offset those costs. And as much as everyone hates the health insurance providers, what would we do if they actually failed?

MA is a good preview for this, and it's failing here. Why should we believe it will work nationally? I'm all for healthcare reform, because I do believe that something needs to be done so everyone can afford healthcare, but this isn't the solution.

ScoMata,

not understanding the difference makes comparisons uneducated and silly. some would call richard cheney a weak dictator. is there distinction and difference. absolutely. just depends on your perspective.

With a name like "demoncat" how could we doubt you...

I have a very sick friend in the state of Illinois and they are unable to get health insurance because the state has no money.

Last year's costs were denied because the coverage lapsed - even though the policy wasn't even a month old.

I think this was STILL setup to fail by all of the back bending done to satisfy the right, then they didn't even vote for it at all.

I will wait and see. Insurance company participation is required and I foresee they will have to have their hands slapped a few times before they settle down and bite their bullit.

America NEEDS A National Healthcare System just like those in Canada, England, France, Denmark, Sweden, China, Russia, Israel which by the way, American Taxpayers pay for Completely, Germany, Italy, Vietnam, Costa Rica, Chili, Spain, Portugal and the list goes on and on and on. We do not need a "healthcare system" which panders to and is controlled by the national healthcare insurance companies.

Scole, wow. how can i argue with that long winded incoherent tough guy come back. you smart be very. talk about the 'dumbed" down masses. your already there spiffy.

actually, the creator of family guy (seth mcfarlane) is also anti-republican. add that to the list of garbage you know nothing about.

Scole, you are a perfect example of why our education system is failing. You are one ignorant puppy.

Tyler, Your falling behind better get all the rest of these personal attacks off here!! Its okay for glen, dennis and the rest though huh.. Whats good for the goose should be good for the gander!! At least for now that is!!! Pathetic

Or maybe the people didn't want this nearly as bad as Obama did!

PhantomBeast - you do realize that the quality of health care goes down, don't you?

Instead of looking for the root cause of a health issue, socialized health insurance does not cover anything unless it is spelled out to the letter.

Break your right arm and the receptionist checked left? Guess what, there is nothing they will do for you because your left arm is not broken.

Rev

Amen to that brother. I too live in MA and we are getting hammered by the Romney plan. I asked my doctor what she thought about Obama's health insurance modification care plan and she spun around and said "Don't ask me that question when I'm holding a sharp object in my hand. I might hurt myself."

To those Healthcare Reform proponents...it's time to reap the fruits of your ill-gotten (no pun intended) and short sighted support of a bill that is doomed to fail

Demoncat I suggest you give up the cool aid for a while... Rev you are right on point...

In the Southeast, most of the uninsured do not seem to want insurance. They are most likely too poor or they are willing to pay the fine - or whatever- rather than buying insurance. I also do not think the government has done enough to try to enroll them in an insurance plan. We have people down here who cannot read and do not watch any of the news networks on a regular basis. As difficult as it may be for the government to grasp, a lot of people are not listening or do not want to know about this. They plan on continuing to depend on the kindness of strangers.

Another plan by our government that is already failing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Another waste of taxes with too many bureaucrats involved in wasting our tax dollars.

talheure, you hit it right on the head. We're all where we are, and have what we have because of our choices.

I used to have a crappy $15 an hour job with no insurance. I decided that I wanted more, so I went to college at 28 years old. Now I make twice the money and have great insurance. College is a lot of work, and costs a lot of money. Why should my taxes pay someone else's medical bills when they could pay them them self if they made the choices and put in the time that I did?

"About 3,600 people have applied and about 1,200 have been approved so far in state plans that started in the beginning of July, according to data from the states and federal government. Officials say the new plans, although a better deal than anything comparable on the private market, still may be unaffordable for many people. Eligibility requirements are another possible barrier. And states have had little time to publicize the plans."

That's because nobody wants to pay for anything. The entitlement mentality is on display for everyone to see. combine that with not wanting to be responsible for their own actions and this is what you get. I bet if you lowered the price to $100 a month many would consider that too expensive. The big problem with a large number of the US citizenry is they don't value healthcare coverage. $400 a month would buy an awful lot of beer, movies, and eating out. Why buy health insurance? It only does me any good when I get sick.

For what it's worth, I live in MA too. Since this plan went into effect, I've changed my primary care physician easily; I've seen him three times and never waited more than a week for an appointment.

Also, I have Blue Cross and my premiums have gone up during this time, so clearly there's no regulation preventing that.

I have a house payment, a car payment, student loans, car insurance, life insurance, basic cable, cell phone and I rarely eat out or go out. Add the cost of fuel and food and I am sorry but $400 a month is too much. I would have to go to work and go home and have NO social life and put NO money into savings if I had to pay that. I make $40,000 a year and live in Colorado. Sorry but I will make do without for now until something else becomes available. I am in good health and will be 50 this year.

sorry Spencer and Talheure...."crappy $15 an hour job???" The majority of Americans are still praying to get a $10 an hour job one day. Not just a few Americans...but the vast majority. $700 a month for insurance, Talheure? Most Americans in this country bring home around $800 a month to live on. Are you suggesting that they sacrifice, make choices, buy insurance and stretch that extra $100 to tough it out? Spencer...I think it's great that you went to college. Hey...millions of people do that every year. Do you think they all get well paying jobs? Not even half of them...not even a quarter of them. The words you should be thinking of are "lucky" and "blessed".

This is the problem with conservatives and republicans. They spread this ridiculous lie that the "have nots" have nothing because they haven't tried or haven't worked hard enough. Most of them are really out of touch with reality. If you consider $15 an hour as "crappy", then you haven't really lived in the REAL America. I can assure you Spencer..many people have worked just as hard as you have or harder and it just hasn't come together for them.

Both your comments are a great example of what's wrong with the idea behind conservatism. You all want to pat yourselves on the back and feel special when you've accomplished the American dream. But you never realize that millions of people every day are dreaming, working, making careful choices just like you...but won't make it. There simply just aren't enough happy endings and feel good stories to go around.

You're not special...not smarter...not better than anyone else...just lucky and..... blessed.

Nice research MSN. New Mexico has had a high risk pool available to those with prexisting conditions since 1987.

http://www.nmmip.org/hrp1/

Kind of reminds me of the trip Obama took to Ohio to tout that "poor woman that couldn't get coverage anywhere" only to find out she was eligible for several programs. OOPS

So now we're starting to hear the truth about this ridiculous bill.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that as many as four million uninsured Americans would be eligible and that 200,000 would actually be enrolled by 2013.

All of that hoopla, redoing the entire system even though more than 70% opposed this bill, to extend eligibility to 4 million and expecting 200,000 would enroll? Folks, there are 300+ million americans. So all of this is to get coverage to 0.1% of the population? Oh, and of that 0.1%, 80% of those people had coverage available to them prior to the bill through their states CHIP (43 out of 50 states had a program in place).

But hey, lets strip 500 billion worth of care to the 43 million senior citizens to help out these 40,000 people.

Add in that it's going to increase the premiums for EVERYONE....maybe because Nancy and her cronies forgot to actually work on REDUCING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.

Vote all these idiots out

Canada...for all the bashing they get...takes care of their citizens...

Here in the USA..where people continue to tout us being the greatest country on Earth, you're on your own and only hear from Washington when our President and Congress need something..

This proves very little. First these plans are not available in all states or advertised. Second, if you are unemployed, you can't afford health care of any kind. Third, unless you have serious health issues that you know you will have to pay for anyway, why pay premiums that are on par with a car payment? Not to mention it is already illegal not to have car insurance so that comes first.

When the Exchange goes into effect in 2014 we will have a better idea. But if premiums aren't lower, I won't like a mandate. I agree with the other poster that insurance reform isn't enough. We need real health care reform.

Thanks to the pro Big Business Republican/Tea Party, we will keep getting ripped off by insurance and pharmaceutical companies and health care providers.

I don't. I devoted myself to a company for a WHOLE YEAR. I got paid $6 a hour, and it was company policy not to give raises. And they didn't. I knew a woman who had been there for SIX YEARS and still made $6 a hour. I worked hard. Selling people like you their coffee on their way to THEIR jobs every morning and taking their money for gas, etc, etc. What makes you so much better than a clerk?

Are you saying that some people don't deserve to have health care? Or a decent place to live? Or a reliable vehicle? Get over this stupid idea that if you work hard you get rewarded. You don't. If you do CERTAIN work for CERTAIN people then yeah, you do.

But what it sounds like YOU'RE saying is that simply being human doesn't make you worthy of being healthy and taken care of. Apparently if you don't want (or can't, because believe it or not some people really are just stupid, by birth) to go college or get into business, law, medicine or politics then you don't deserve to live a basically decent life.

Good to know that I am where I am because I have the audacity to just want to put in my 40 hours on an assembly line (building YOUR new car) or at an office somewheres (processing YOUR paycheck) and then go home to my kids.

TruePatriot, chuck and cobigred,

Ok...the average usage for someone currently with health insurance is in the $3600/year range. That works out to be $300/month.

So you want to pay $100/month for $300/month in services? And who shall we charge the difference to? Responsible people that are already paying their fair share?

Hey, lets go further with it. It isn't fair that that college graduate that has worked hard and made a good living lives in a nice house. You should be able too as well, and you shouldn't have to pay more than you can for that house should you? I mean this is America...the government should make it so everyone can afford one. If you can't, no problem, we'll loan you the money.....oh? That policy didn't work so well? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac crashed? financial meltdown?

But why not apply the same principals to healthcare cause I'm sure history won't ever repeat itself!

Chuck, there was no luck involved. There was lots of planning, lots of going without while I worked my butt off in school, and lots and lots of hard work.

And I'm an atheist, so I don't believe I was blessed either.

Yes there are a lot of people that work hard, and they're having a rough time right now. That's because of the recession. The recession is the exception. Not the rule. When the economy revives, people will have jobs, and they'll have insurance. With the small exception of the people with some form of handycap, the people that don't have a job, or insurance don't have them because they weren't willing to put in the work that the rest of us have.

Good health care in American will never be cheap, hence the reason it's called "good health care."

I, personally, would love to see each and every American have good health care. Then again, I'd like to have a house on the beach in Malibu with a staff of servants and my own private helicopter and my own personal movie studio.

@talheure - I don't think you're grasping the point. We aren't just talking money dear. I'm talking about the fact that you shouldn't have to afford health care or a decent place to live. You want a mansion, fine, go to college and all that jazz. But if a person is willing to work, they should have an option besides the ghetto. It shouldn't be "rich or poor" just like "paper or plastic". There should be a basic standard of living that EVERYONE is entitled to, and then there are extras. A telephone, for emergencies and to keep in touch is not an extra. A car, especially in an area without reliable public transportation, is not an extra. More than one outfit a week? Seriously? Changing clothes IS NOT AN EXTRA. And feeding your kids something besides ramen noodles and spaghetti o's is not an extra either.

And btw, I am currently unemployed because my most recent job was with the Census Bureau, which you might have noticed is a TEMPORARY job. At that job, I started out as a clerk and ended up as a manager. During peak operations I put in 60 plus hours a week, and there were a few times I didn't even go home for 2 or 3 days.

And where am I now? Earning poverty wages on unemployment. I've applied to over 50 positions in the last month and I'm registered with two temp agencies. I would love to go back to school but unfortunately, I'm living in a new state, which means even with a Pell Grant I can't afford the out of state tuition. And I don't have the credit to get student loans. But then again, I did max out a card buying my newborn child diapers WHILE I WAS IN SCHOOL AND WORKING AT MCDONALD'S AND STILL COULDN'T AFFORD ANYTHING. But wait, that's right. I had a child out of wedlock. I should get nothing! (Note the sarcasm).

I'm not even going to try and be civilized and educated right now. People like you make me sick. I am not lazy, I probably work harder than you, I just need a friggin' job to actually do. And quite frankly, it scares me that a doctor wouldn't give me the same level of care without the pay. That tells me he's more likely to diagnose an imaginary illness to get himself a new Ferrari. Me? I want a doctor who treats me because it hurts his heart to see people sick. I'd like to think you're teaching because you love kids, but you probably just want the opportunity to make sure they continue to the rhetoric of blaming the have nots for being have nots.

Believe it or not, there is right and wrong in this world. And it's not determined by dollars. It's how you treat people and in our country, we treat people like crap. That is the end of the story. I'm not whining because I don't have it all. I'm not whining period. I'm screaming out the window that I am mad! I am pissed! That people like you, get to "have it all" and I can't even buy my child school supplies.

This country, is not right. You shouldn't have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to be treated like a human being.

Nite - the things the republicans proposed and were accepted by the democrats did not hurt, but rather helped the Bill to save money or prevent confusion. I'd bet you cannot name one thing they got in the bill that hurt it.

If you are refering to the public option. The demcrats had enough votes, that if all their members voted, that would have gone through. The Trouble is that there were 18 democrat senators and around 60 House democrats who did not want the public option. Ther Republicans had no say unless democrats voted with them.

Private and not-for profit insurance calculated the cost for pre-condition insurance to be 12,000 - 27,000 per year.

22 states kicked the problem back to HHS. Since there is no public option, HHS contracted with a private company for those states. The costs in the article are the numbers of the private contractor.

The plan is an HSA - 300 per month 2500 deductible, then 20/80 or 40/60 until you pay another $6400 then the Health Insurance covers all. To get there you have to pay for tests out of pocket, that may or may not be counted toward your deductible. This doesn't include the money (limited to $6500) you contribute to the HSA to cover for the deductibles and out of pockets which clearly you would need to pay before the insurance pays for everything.

One last thing, this insurance is only a bridge until the Health Insurance Exchange opens. With the costs the health insurance industry thinks that insurance will cost, I doubt there will be many companies try to survive joining the exchange.

There should be a basic standard of living that EVERYONE is entitled to

Michelle, everyone is entitled to a basic standard of living, just as everyone is entitled to even more. All you have to do is work for it.

Magnolia...you need to make up your mind. First you claim that your insurance premiums have risen drastically and then you claim that the insurers aren't allowed to raise premiums to cover increased costs. Those two statements are completely contradictory.

Why should my taxes pay someone else's medical bills when they could pay them them self if they made the choices and put in the time that I did?

Because they know there are people like you (and me) who are too proud to rely on the rest of society and are willing to pay our share. But those people feel entitled to our earnings. Their attitude is "why should I earn my own way through life when I can get the government to give part of somebody else's earnings."

Michelle - People are "entitled" to earn what they want and are able to earn.

there were a few times I didn't even go home for 2 or 3 days.

I'm glad you weren't in my area taking census polls at 2-3 a.m. during those times. How did those people that you did interview during those times welcome you? If you were a manager during those times, who were you managing since the other pollsters weren't out canvassing? Wait a minute, who tended your kid while you were gone during that extended canvassing?

I'm screaming out the window that I am mad! I am pissed! That people like you, get to "have it all" and I can't even buy my child school supplies.

Your earlier rant was that people should be able to make choices. Didn't you make a choice to have sex and carry a child to term knowing your financial situation? Didn't you make a choice to follow advice or ignore the warnings of the possibility of becoming pregnant? Didn't the school/parents conduct any type of sex ed? These are just some of the choices you made and are now getting to live with the outcome of those choices. Maybe the rest of society is pissed at having to support those that made poor choices and now are rebelling at those "entitled" to a minimum standard of living. As long as there are those that can get something for nothing, there will be.

Michelle-2248725 - Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. Now if only everyone else saw things as logically and morally as you do.

Spencer-399802 - Your rebuttal was absolutely pathetic. I'm pretty sure you skimmed what she said without actually reading just to find a sentence, completely out of context, to post your inane comment. "All you have to do is work for it"? Try to actually READ Michelle's post this time. You'll see the entire point of it was that people DO work hard and sometimes fall short.

Smc:

"Magnolia...you need to make up your mind. First you claim that your insurance premiums have risen drastically and then you claim that the insurers aren't allowed to raise premiums to cover increased costs. Those two statements are completely contradictory."

Actually, they're not. Massachusetts premiums are the highest in the country, yet because of the rise in healthcare costs, those raises are not enough to cover the costs to the health insurance companies' costs. The state of Massachusetts (in particular, Governor Patrick) has put restrictions on how high health insurance companies can raise their premiums. There is actually cases in court right now about the legality of the state putting restrictions on the insurance companies like it is right now. It's to the point where some of the insurance agencies are thinking about pulling out of Massachusetts if some kind of resolution can't be made.

So my statements are not contradictory. Our premiums are through the roof, yet the health insurance companies still can't cover their costs.

I apologize for the lack of proofreading on my last post, but the general idea is there.

talheure:

and yet the barrista is getting taxed higher than other in the physican/lawyer/banker bracket...the 1% seem to think they get it all...nothing for anyone else. sorry...america thrives when all of its citizens thrive...

give or take 21,000 per year, with about 28% in taxes...

yes, When did it become an "of course" kind of thing to assume that one set of people owes another set of people anything? Just because it's about money and not skin color does not make it right.

besides, in my state a waiter's wage is below minimum wage and they are expected to earn a living off of tips...I heard for one place it was $2.95 an hour plus tips...

again you miss the point, when people who are making less than you are taxed more than you, and then you sprout off about "one set of people owes another set of people anything" your sense of entitlement is amazing...you really are a part of the 'true welfare bunch' aren't ya'...

oh well, the expiration of bush tax cuts is just around the corner.

Go ahead dangle the d*** carrot who the f*** cares anymore (been there, did that, one to many times)

My job isn’t on the line is yours…and by the way any money I get from tax season is used to offset the amount I am taxed the rest of the season. Next year’s tax return $ was going to go to an overpriced plumber so he would fix my house (costs a hundred dollars for a plumber to come see what needs to be done and give me a quote…my boss, in his line of work, gives free quotes, figure that out)…

It will be so worth it not to get tax return $ next year to see you get some perspective seeing as you want me to feel sorry enough for you to continue funding your portion of the IRS bill so you can enjoy your $14.00 per plate meals while at the same time you are advising everyone that isn’t you to “work harder” and “you aren’t allowed to have the extras”.

Which is funny because those who are making more are usually trying to sell, as many as possible, some crappy product or service with a high price tag, even higher interest, and every charge, penalty and fee that they can tack on to get even richer...

So, yeah, I think all Americans are entitled to some basic health care that won’t leave them in the poor house…especially those on ‘high/low’ welfare

When there is an income tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income.

Plato

Look, I'm back. @ Talheure. Your neighbor may pay more taxes, but he still takes home more. And when you have a LOT, and taking some still leaves you with a LOT, that's better than making LITTLE and having some taken and being left with LESS.

I do believe that 200k minus 60k still leaves him ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

And the other dude? Now, he has 17,000.

Hmmmmmm. Which number is bigger?

Oh, but mister 17,000 will get his 3,000 back. Which makes 20,000. Compared to 140,000.

I don't know Talheure. Math isn't a "specialized skill" for me. Since you made all the right choices maybe you can figure out which number is greater?

Oh, I forgot though. Waiters are less important than your neighbor. Even though without them you would have to stay home and cook your own food and serve your own family and clean your own kitchen. But yes, they're less important, so really, who cares if they have a safe place to sleep at night? Or die from a simple cough?

They're waiters, they don't count.

Only people who go to college, and make the right connections, and work at the RIGHT jobs count. Silly me, thinking like a socialist again. Forgot this is America where our economy IS our government.

not really, maybe just pay your fair share...instead of being on "welfare" for the rich (i.e., bush's tax cuts for the wealthy)

that quote was from an assignment I did in one of the classes I take in college...oh my, yes, I am in college:O

I have been trying to talk about how I feel about the comments you and your ilk keep saying (all the time) that I'm not paying my debt to society even though I'm paying 33% of my salary (or more) between that and the nickle and diming for the basics...

huh, Bruce Almighty is on...and he just had a meltdown because he didn't get chosen...

Your racist comment diminishes your argument and only gives the liberals more firepower. Stick to the issues, not personal attacks. Don't give ammo to the leftstream media who is all to happy to portray anti-Obama people as dumb, racist, redneck, bigoted, filthy rich, birthers, clinging to guns and religion.

I don't care who is trying to jam their plans down my throat, fact remains that as it stands now I will not be able to afford this government insurance and neither will many of my neighbors. I've been out of work over a year now and barely paying rent to keep a roof over my head. I don't give a sh!t if he's pink with green stripes.

If you look up Arab World in Wikipedia. Under Geography it states "The term "Arab" often connotes the Middle East, but the larger (and more populous) part of the Arab World is North Africa" I am not saying he is an Arab that is from Africa (I admit I didn't look it up), but just because he is 3/8 Arab does not automatically make him less African

William,
President Obama is OUR PRESIDENT, including you.

Such disrespect is getting redundant.

The healthcare system we had (past tense) has been responsible for more medical advancement thant the rest of the world's healthcare systems combined. Now we are moving to nothing but 'maintenance mode' where will the next advancements come from?

My son's only long-term chance for a normal life is continued advancements like Avastin. And the current powers in Washington are assuring the demise of the sytem that has gotten us this far.

Mike O-369068

im sorry but what your saying is that requiring people to have private industry insurance, that pays your medical bills is going to ruin the advancements in healthcare? are you really suggesting that? so you are saying no one should have health insurance right? and that will make advancement in healthcare explode. do you and your son have insurance?

That's bull that my comment got collapsed. First part is truth...second part is my opinion. What is wrong with whomever collapsed that?

mandatory didn't fly when Hillary tried it and it's not flying now. what I want to know is why doesn't the market prevail anymore? The consumer has no power at all only the greedy snot nosed investors and board of directors. I dumped health ins. 8 years ago because they raised the premiums way too much, cut the services and increased the deductables. So did a lot of other people, yet the prices keep going up.

All the markets seem to be controlled by a few only interested in their profit margin and paying CEO's to be greedy asses and buying the govt to get their way. Capitalism is free markets subject to supply and demand, guess they can't compete.

Talheure,

We have the BEST HEALTHCARE MONEY CAN BUY. That is for sure.

Trouble is the money part.

The President being Black has no more to do with healthcare than Bush being white and starting two wars and collapsing our economy. And anyone who doesn't think our current healthcare system is a catastrophe is either staggeringly wealthy or has never been sick a day of his or her life. The concept that the job of the loyal opposition is to provide legislative and racial roadblocks to any form of change is neither constructive nor loyal. This country has and always will be built on differing opinions, but it dysfunctions when they become hateful and devisive.

Congratulations for making the dumba$$ post of the day. In case you forgot the majority of Americans elected Obama. I guess is a high percentage of them read or heard at least a little of his plan for healthcare during in the period before the election. So this isn't really a surprise to the majority of us Americans. Granted what we got was a watered down pile of horse poop, but what do expect when you leave it to the house and senate. So far he hasn't done anything I didn't expect, why are you so shocked?

Second this "the healthcare is evil because (fill in this weeks talking point)" is getting old. This the healthcare bill passed two things have happened in my life. First off, the insurance company lost the ability to decide if they were going to pay for the care my daughter needed to survive and thive, which she's doing both of now. And I got a shiny new job in the healthcare industry. (it created jobs, not the opposite. Unless you worked for the drug pushers, opps...big Pharma)

Conservative us some more.

Toby, this seems to be the dying battle cry of liberals. Try to equate what bush did to conservatives. Bush claimed to be a conservative, but he was far from it. When conservatives talk about being conservative, think Reagan, not Bush.

Talheure,

We have the BEST HEALTHCARE MONEY CAN BUY. That is for sure.

Trouble is the money part.

This is the way Obama talks. Use the recession to justify highjacking the health care industry. Yes there's a recession. Yes people don't have insurance because they lost their job, and can't afford it. I'm ok with the government helping out in extreme circumstances like this. But the recession is not a normal thing. When it's done, and there are jobs, the government needs to stop helping. People need to work harder. If they can't afford health insurance, get educated so you make more money. It's pretty easy.

We haven't had a recession for more than 10 years. Healthcare premiums have kept most of us working stiffs from getting a decent raise for at LEAST 10 years. Where have you been?

talheure
It's no accident that world leaders (whose countries do/don't have "nationalized" health care) come HERE when the chips are down and the diagnosis is dire.

Hmmmm. Wonder WHY.

They come here if they can afford it. The current system works great if (1) you have a job that provides employee health coverage. (2) can afford to pay for your own health expenses, or (3) can afford and qualify for private health insurace. You don't qualify if you have had much more than a pimple.

I have several friends that fail on all three, and in all likelyhood, by the the time they qualify for medicare the cost will be much higher then if they could have gone to a physician now and gotten a simple perscription.

It's kind of hard to make the arguement that this is being crammed down people's throats when the whole point of the article is that fewer people are opting to enroll than expected. But then, your racist second comment exposes you as a person with a flawed way of thinking, so we can't really expect you to mount a lucid arguement about much of anything. People like you are what is wrong with America. You are just too racist and ignorant to realize it.

Such disrespect is getting redundant.

One can't demand respect. Respect is earned, not mandated despite the position or level of authority.

the insurance company lost the ability to decide if they were going to pay for the care my daughter needed to survive and thive, which she's doing both of now.

It's a miracle that the healthcare program that hasn't even started had such a profound effect on your daughter.

You think this is slow...

Just wait....

Bend over, here comes your Hope and Change people....

...and waiting for the Republicans to fix our healthcare system, which is in shambles BTW, as far as costs to the insured go,......tic tic tic tic.

Waiting.....where is their plan???

They want America to fail so they can come along and "save" us. They forgot they had to have some sort of PLAN.

They want America to fail so they can come along and "save" us. They forgot they had to have some sort of PLAN

Really NiteOwlett? Did you you even try google before that last post?

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

As I recall it was dead before it even got introduced because of partisan politics. I won't claim that it was better, but I am not impressed with the current plan either.

The PAMPHLET of their healthcare plan???? It was not a plan. If they actually CARED about reforms they would have had a real one.

Hey Boston Butch

I didn't vote for BO or JM. I voted libertarian only because I could still smell the stinks rising off of both camps while holding my nose tightly.

Niteowlett

"..and waiting for the Republicans to fix our healthcare system, which is in shambles BTW, as far as costs to the insured go,......tic tic tic tic.

Waiting.....where is their plan???"

They have put forth their plan. It would have cut 30% off the cost of health insurance by doing just two things. Allow cross state sale of health insurance and adopt looser pay tort reform.

Not proven, only rhetoric, no facts to back this up????

While Obama's plan had to be passed so we could see what was in it. Have you tried reading that monster?

My cobra is more than that and I'm younger than that. If you had lived in one of those evil so called socialist countries, the only payment you would be making now is for transportation to the doctor. The health industry here pays the tab, that is your premium money to lobbyists to get laws written for them.

the only payment you would be making now is for transportation to the doctor

So, in your world, who pays the doctors/nurses salaries and for the medicine and equipment?

janice,toby may be from canada and he or she is right about only paying travel expense,but that is the only current expense.i`ve been pretty lucky and healthy and half the money i spend goes to health care for all citizens,when i need health care i consider it prepaid,not free.

I'm uninsured and never once thought it would be a "free" program, no one ever said it was going to be. It was stated from the beginning those that didn't "purchase" the plan would be fined.

How can anyone assume its free if the word "purchase" is thrown in the mix?

Maybe because it was called "free health care" by so many uninformed people or to uninformed people to manipulate them?

A LOT of people thought somebody else would be paying, a LOT.

Hell, you had people thinking they wouldn't have to pay their mortgage, get a subsidy for gas and food, car payments, free healthcare...........

All this because they elected the first black president!

You might deny it Ophelia, but quite a few of those giddy Obama supporters naively and sincerely thought money woes would be a thing of the past "now that Obama is the president!"

Those people will NEVER understand, but thank God the majority of the rest have realized what a mistake they've made!

I often wonder how many of those 'giddy Obama supporters' have lost their jobs, their homes, and are forced to eat from a can with no can opener?

Fortunately I'm not giddy and deal more on the logical side of the universe. Some of us can see through the smoke.

Job losses have not been a MAJOR part of what you can blame President Obama for, even today.

People who do not understand economics should stay out of that discussion.

I often wonder how many of those 'giddy Obama supporters' have lost their jobs, their homes, and are forced to eat from a can with no can opener?

Yeah, me too.

Ya think they learned their lesson?

Get real. The only people claiming it was free were RepubliCons who were opposed to any and all health reform and always will be to health reform b/c to reform health care you have to cut the profits of insurers. It was the Repub ,as they always do, that something is free and it's going to welfare and poor people. The fact is most people without health insurance have jobs which don't offer benefits of insurance. This program is not dirt cheap as it has to pay for itself, but it's cheaper than these people can get on the open market b/c they are " virtual untouchables" with a pre-existing condition without paying an arm and a leg.

Maybe that is it, the feds know people cannot afford to pay the kind of premiums talked about here, so like me, many will pay the fine at tax time.
Another avenue for new taxes for the govt. and they get to control your body.

No one expected that it would be free. What we expected is that it would be similar to places like Canada where EVERYONE paid higher taxes, but when the time came to actually have to go to the doc's/hospital you DIDN'T have to cough up a huge deductible, let alone pay HUGE monthly premiums, to begin with. This health care plan was whittled down to the point that it is no different than the way things are *already* done in the healthcare industry. The only difference is who it is run by. Major let-down. Oh yeah, I've been unemployed for a year, too. Good luck getting that $500/month from me.

If someone in Canada gets sick they go to the hospital and get taken care of. They aren't given a mountain of paperwork, nor are they expected to fulfill a $2,500 deductible before remaining costs get paid for. They also do not pay monthly premiums. It comes out of their taxes paid (heaven forbid our tax money actually be spent to provide something useful). I'd rather pay higher taxes and at least know that the extra tax money is actually benefiting ME and not some other country, which is the norm.

JC - Unfortunately many of those don't even file taxes at the end of year, who covers them?

Single payer will never happen in this country, there is too much money to be made by big pharma and the health insurance industry..

Why would we do what the U.K. is doing? Their program is underfunded and they are going to make changes to it.

Why is it the Governments responsibility to provide health care?

The answer you will get is how awful their care is and you can't see a doctor. The ones who tell you this have never really lived it, just read about it. Mention to them that there are over 100K military and state dept employees and their dependents stationed in the UK. All of them receive their care through the British National Health. For those who metion how bad the health care is there, have them call their congressman and tell them of the need to build US military hospitals there. If they don't, they do not support the troops.

Here is one person right now. Call your congressman and tell them to build those US military hospitals in the UK. Support the troops. The constittion says nothing of providing an education through public schools either, lets stop tax money from going to education.

I see where the UK is ready to file for bankruptcy. How's their single payer thing working for them? Not too good, I imagine.

I think the government should provide healthcare and free higher education. To fund this I would reduce social security and completely eliminate it for those making over $250K in dividend/interest income once they retire. There are more of those than you think. This would go in effect for anyone born after 1966. Alternatively, give young people a chance to choose free tuition for college in exchange for giving up social security benefits in their old age. They would still pay social security tax but it would essentially pay off the government education. This plan gives people the education and healthcare for a long and productive career that will allow them to fend for themselves in old age. Anyone not going to college still gets the old ss benefits, unless they strike it rich. Then all bets are off. We have it backwards. By the way am 11 years away from retirement, so I have no ax to grind.

Check it out with the bankruptcy, the UK is the third largest holder of our US debt. All healthcare is more expensive, the difference when it comes to rationing, we do it by ability to pay. It's OK to have our service members treated in that system though. The one you call substandard.

Actually the Japanese single payer system appears to far more cost effective and you have access to all of the latest technology without waiting or any rationing! They need to come here and teach us a thing or two like we did after the WWII!

Read the US Constitution - no where in the Constitution does it say the government should pay for health care or education. The founding fathers stated the Federal Government should protect the states from invasion, collect taxes to support the Federal government, support the post office and the roads, handle immigration and importing, exporting and trade between the states. After that, they needed to stay out of the states business and let them run themselves.

All these social programs, Medicaid, Medicare, health care, social security - came about because the Government decided that we, the American people, were too dumb to take care of ourselves. The years have proved them right, yet, everyone complains that it will cost them too much. These programs must be paid for - where do you think the money is going to come from? Your pockets! You can complain about the insane amounts of profit that the insurance companies make, yet, you don't have to use them if you don't want to. You have the option of paying out of your own pocket. If the American people had stepped up to the plate and taken care of themselves, the medical industry would not be in the position of making you pay what they want. You all want the best of care, even tests that have no business being performed and then, you want to sue when a doctor makes a wrong diagnosis or makes one you don't like. The health care bill didn't even address the tort claims that people make which directly drive up the cost of health care. If the government had wanted to fix this mess, they would have set up a system of fair prices for any medical procedures, etc. Then, you could pay out of your pocket however much you wanted to afford. All medical bills would then be deducted from your income taxes, there by reducing your taxable income. They would also have put a reasonable cap on medical malpractice suits to enable doctors and hospitals to do their jobs without having to worry about stupid people that refuse to follow directions when given. Our government, whether you want to blame this mess on the Democrats or Republicans don't want to really fix health care.

The UK is not a single payer system, it is actually socialized medicine. The government supplies the hospitals and doctors.

The ideal plan would be to extend Medicare to everyone with a degree of changes to our payroll tax payments for younger participants.

America should be able to provide ACCESS to affordable healthcare in today's modern era.

Do any of you not have friends that have lost EVERYTHING due to illness? Most of us do.

When you give massive tax cuts to the already wealthy while waging a VERY expensive war on two fronts, you are TAKING from all of us and giving it to some of us.

B707320C: College today is not the same thing as it was when you, yourself were in your early 20's. A college education today doesn't really mean a whole lot. Everyone has one. People with Master's degrees are still finding themselves working at Taco Bell. A few may bet lucky ... doctors, nurses, and of course financial investors... but lots of other people with a college education are stuck in limbo with jobs continuously being sent out to other countries. A Bachelor's degree pretty much means squat these days.

That said, I do agree with you that it would be nice for some of us to be able to have our college loans forgiven in forbearance of receiving Social Security. This especially holds true for us 20 and 30-somethings who will never be able to collect social security anyway, because it will be LONG GONE by the time we are old-enough to collect. Of course, we are still expected to pay all the SS premiums... at least if we could have our college loans forgiven we would get *something* in return for all of the SS taxes we pay for something we will likely never be able to collect in the end.

Why is it the Governments responsibility to provide health care?

cuprace, why is it currently employers reponsibility to provide health care?

Dale,

I dont agree that it is the employers responsibility to provide health care either. It should be optional.

The employers that do however tend to get a better workforce. The smart employers know this and provide plans that are ver competetive. I provide 100% for my employees, and I have very little turnover and higher than average ( for my industry) productivity.

@ NMEast. Social programs started during the Great Depression -- when no one had any money and all of a sudden we realized that you can't have an economy based on paying for things, when no one has a way to pay.

As to the whole economy issue, could everyone who does not hold a Masters in economics please shut up?

It's not black and white. Capitalism does not guarantee you an income, or a place to sleep, or food to eat. Pure socialism often leads to dictators, BUT socialism does guarantee everyone a place to sleep, work to do, and food to eat.

We need a fair and balanced mixture of things. And we need to always consider our actions, and what makes us stupid is simply calling something we don't like names and equating it with evil.

What we need to do is realize we can't do anything without each other. Human beings are social animals and we depend on each other for survival. What's damning us all is this persistent "me, me, and did I mention me!" attitude.

It's not about you! If for just one day, everyone can be as concerned with another person as themselves, we wouldn't need welfare. We wouldn't need government to take care of us. The reason we have problems, is because we're selfish, hateful creatures and we never want to think about what's best for EVERYONE and for our progeny. All we care about is what we want now and how we can get it now.

They don't need to give it away for free to illegal aliens. They will get free health care anyway, because hospitals are not allowed to turn them away. There have been several hospitals in New York that have closed their clinics because they can't afford to treat the illegal aliens that utilize them since they don't get paid by Medicare or Medicaid.

When the MASSES don't have enough money to actually go see a doctor, much less be treated for their illnesses, or when they lose their homes, and everything else in order to be treated, this signals me SOMETHING IS ROTTEN and not in Denmark.

Nite,

The masses? Give me a break. The masses are not loosing their homes due to medical costs. You have a weak point if you need drama to prove it.

Throwing money at something doesnt fix the problem. A look at tort reform needs to be front and center.

There you go again Talheure. Tell you what, why don't you take your high and mighty "good choice" riddled self down to your local Social Services. Spend a day, or several days, there talking to the people applying for services. Talking to the social service agents. Actually find out the back stories on people applying for welfare.

I cannot believe that you SERIOUSLY think that many people are "just lazy". The thing is, we can't all be doctors lawyers and specialists. Someone HAS to clean up the mess. That's a job, that has to be done. You might consider a doctor more important, but every job NEEDS to be done. If everyone was a doctor, who would they treat? Couldn't we just diagnose ourselves?

The point is that not that every job should pay the same, but every job should pay a basic wage that you can SURVIVE ON. Healthcare is not an extra. Education, is not an extra. Plastic surgery, that's an extra. But going to the doctor when we're sick is a basic human right.

As to making choices, um, your HUD house is considered welfare. Hmmmmmm, sounds like you once used the same system you're damning everyone else for you. Yes, I know, you sacrificed and got off it. Whatever. The system is designed to be a hand out, not a hand up. So in and of itself it doesn't create an environment where people can readily move from on. That's a whole other debate right there. But once again, it's complicated. Not black and white. Not "people are lazy, rarrrr". It's "if you do any kind of work you don't get food stamps. Even if the work you do doesn't leave you able to buy groceries. So in effect, you actually come out better staying home."

Now before you speak, Talheure, I'm sure those people just made poor choices.

But what about the child of the ghetto? Who grew up on welfare, and in a crappy education system, so can't barely read and was just passed out of high school and now the only job they qualify for IS as a barista (btw, LOVE you practically turned that into a racist term). Because of their lack of education and lack of exposure they can't understand the complex systems designed to"help" them --- i.e, miles of paperwork for financial aid to include finding documents they never knew even existed, etc etc etc. Add to that the massive struggle it is to come up out of a situation like that, and no one there to tell them it's worth it, no one there to help them get over that hurdle, I could go on.

Or perhaps they're like my neighbor. Who had her child in high school. Not a poor choice on her part because she was practically a child. Her mother should have stopped her. She didn't. But this girl, this girl got up early to walk to McDonald's to work. Not the one by the house, the one a few miles over. They ultimately fired her for being late ---- even though she already had to leave when it was dark just to get there five minutes late. Their mother didn't teach them anything, they didn't know any better. What people know is, go to work. What they don't know is, going to work does not equate survival.

And speaking of choices, you in your little HUD home. This barista lived in the ghetto for the last year. To keep down on costs. I paid $325 a month for a home that was constantly broken into, and I didn't have tv. I do subscribe Netflix. Oh, but that's entertainment. Even at $15 a month, I could be saving that towards being well off like you and say "look, I made good choices, I didn't experience culture for 10 years!". Note the sarcasm.

But between rent, a car payment (and before you get started dear, I've LIVED in 10 year old Chevys my whole life. But when the last one blew a head gasket we decided maybe it's time for a FIVE year old car. Tsk, tsk, I spent 8,000 on a car instead of my usual 3. I am such a wasteful spender!), the subsequent full coverage car insurance (like how you have to it, but it doesn't have to be affordable), the light bill, the rent, the replacement of things stolen and, now this is REAL waste the dance lessons for my child, somehow, even as a manager, I still didn't earn enough.

I know. I should have just given my child away and went to school for ten years and explained to her bitter self on graduation that I did it for us! Because we should sacrifice time with our children so we can feed them. This is, after all, America. I mean, we can't expect to KNOW our children as people AND take care of them, can we?

Oh, that whole thing was to say that after spending money "those other ways", no I couldn't afford a doctor. I wasn't really gambling I wouldn't need one, I was gambling that keeping my lights on was more important than preventive health care.

Obama is a phony.. He campained for the "public option" and caved-in to big pharma and the powerful health insurance lobby when got elected..

At least, the Democrats tried which is more than can be said for the Republicians. It may not be perfect but for those of use in my condition, something is better than nothing!

Actually, Racheal, Republicans offered a plan but were told by Obama to sit down and shut up. As for the democrats "trying" so hard: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." That's one of Obama's "shovel ready" projects.

Another funny thing! The resultant healthcare plan is pretty close to what McCain was calling for during the presidential campaign!

Be careful what you wish for, Racheal. Taxpayers will be paying a big something for a little nothing. The government cannot manage anything effectively. That is the track record. Look at the 2009 -2010 billions in taxpayer IOUs that were thrown at the so-called loan modification program (with a new wave of foreclosures in the wings) and just short of 5,000 loans were actually modified at what, a cost-benefit ratio of maybe 1000000 to 1? Not even 5000 closed files and BBBBBillions in cost. And look at the anti-financial reform, otherwise known as the Banksters Bailout Bonus Reprise. The list goes on and on. And those programs would pale in comparison to the size of this anti-health takeover by the government. This is not progress. This is regress. This is not moving a car out of the ditch. This is pushing the car over the cliff.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is also our military. Ineffective?? Expensive, yes, but the best on the planet.

Our Medicare system has protected our seniors for decades now.

i pay for group insurance for my company and pay about 550.00 a month for health and dental, with a 5000.00 deduct for the health . this plan actually sounds a lot better thatn what i pay now!

Racheal, I think in this case though, the "Nothing we had" is better than the "Something we've got"!

It's a lot more expensive than what I pay: $187/mo w/$1500 deductible. That includes me and my child.

tolerant1, it gives most of us no joy to face reality: America's social experiment with its first affirmative action president is failing. And failing miserably. He can't perform. The campaign was over almost two years ago but to this date this one seems to think this only job is photo ops, repetition of the same tired old throwaway lines on the stump that should have ended almost two years ago, and that's enough. He seems to lack the wit for a sophisticated, improvised line and that's just fact. Even immigrant barbers understand that you create JOBS before you spend a bankrupt country into further oblivion. You need a cake before you ice a cake. But the poison ivy professor in chief does not seem to grasp that 2 plus 2 is not 22000000000. (By the way, you are so correct that there is not much difference between Republican and Democrat. They are all the same self-serving person for the most part, or they would not be there.) And even the Washington Post (7/13/10, cover story, was forced to admit the truth: "6 in 10 Americans lack faith in Obama" to make the right decisions for this country's future.

The vaunted health bill will ultimately go down as yet another of this Washington era's collosal failures, despite its thug-force ambitions. Tone-deafness is not leadership. Americans did not want this abortion so it is no wonder the new health plans are off to a "slow start." Americans see the failure of government health plans all around the world. Americans see that when those with wherewithall in other countries need care it's to the US. OR that's been so up to now.

Vote out all incumbents in 2010. And 2012.

how do we the people take back control from the people with all the money when money is all washington cares about?

I feels same about your Retardican Tea baggers

I agree

ahhh sorry Tom, the Chinese will stop lending us money way before that happens....

The Public option or atleast a medicare buy in would have helped to provide competition to insurers. But, the real failure of the pan to control cost is in things like lack of negotiation on drug prices by medicare/medicaid and lack of the re-importation of drugs. It's actually asinine and against smart business practice to not negotiate drug prices if you're customers are a huge user. Every health plan in the country does it and even the VA does it but medicare and medicaid don't. On drug re-importation, US citizens pay many times more for the same drugs, made in the same factories, by our own US based companies b/c were American. We essentially subsidize cheap drugs for other countries b/c the drug companies can jack our prices and then sell drugs cheap other places based on the excessive profit from Americans. Both of these things were filibustered by Republicans and corporatist Dems for one simple reason, it would hurt insurers and drug companies profits. They didn't care that it would actually reduce cost. That's the hypocrisy in our politics, everyone talks about saving money, but don't do it when it would cut corporate profits.

gee jeremy, i live in canada and you ain`t got a clue.

Talheure,

So how come other countries paying 3 times less for same drugs then?

Insurance is no longer insurance, but welfare, if the company has to cover pre-existing conditions. You don't sell someone an automobile insurance policy after the accident and expect the company to pay for the damages already incurred.

That analogy is not relevant here. In the case of an auto accident, it is a one time cost to repair your car. If a person does not have insurance, they pay this cost one time. With pre existing conditions, it is a cost that is repeated for the rest of a person's life through specialist appointments, special tests, etc. So, with your analogy, it is like saying because this person got into a car accident, insurance will not cover any future accidents. You cannot treat a pre-existing condition as one accident with a one time cost when it has costs ad infinitum.

comparing car insurance to health insurance should be irrelevant,see you learned a new word.

The FIX is to get the bottom dwellers out of the system.

We need no stinkin' health insurance providers. They blew it.

greedy corporations

their not greedy,they just don`t have a useful purpose in health care.

Amen!

Dear RG-1922771 depending on the state you live there are plans availble to you. I am licensed in 10 states and I have colleges licensed in 48 states. I am sure depending on your budget there are plans available for you. If your interested I can let you know how to get in touch with me.

If your a male and not a minority, your screwed.

al said it,your`re screwed

I am hard working married person with family with mortgage and making sure I have insurance for me and my family so I don't have to go to emergency when sick and bring everybody insurance up. I know your federal taxes didn't go up so don't lie about that, and doubt your property taxes are up, since housing market is down. So if you whining about higher sales tax or something you should talk to your state legislature and governor. If you don't get health insurance, then just smaller Tax return check going to be and that it.

We have that heathcare system already here in MA. Created by Gov Goodlooks Romney when he was the Gov. here! It's the model for Obama's plan. Another fine Republican contributuion to this country. He's lining up for a 2012 run for office. Lets hope he doesn't win otherwise we're screwed even more than you think we are now!

what are you discovering are the shortfalls in the Mass plan?

hey moron, nobody said it was free, like Retardican ideas was better: do nothing

add more chlorine...and some acid

Here's the plan, poolboy. Here's the solution:

1) JOB creation. First things first. An American must have a JOB at a level of self-support first and foremost. Any overreaching and thinking legislator or executive should know that the JOB and its income ripe for government taking must come first. You must HAVE a cake before you can ICE a cake. Only those who care nothing for this country or their oath of office pushed through this irresponsible, petulant, premature and blatant campaign-debt-payoff of an anti-health bill.

2) Lower TAXES. On BOTH individuals and companies. On companies so they will begin hiring again to create those JOBS, as above. (With the fiscal insanity and uncertainty coming out of Washington no wonder companies are not hiring. Nobody with any sense is going to do anything except hunker down in the current bully-brats-spending-binge and hope to weather this madness. No wonder to that.) And lower taxes on individuals so they can begin to afford the basics of life again without duress and restabilize themselves and their families.

A KEY POINT IS: Many, many Americans' health would dramatically improve if they could spend their money on themselves and their families (not on an insatiable, wasteful government beast) for more and better quality food, stable housing, more family time, time to exercise and relax, time to seek and rediscover a faith worth having, not the tin god fakes of this age. Good food beats taking a handful of big pharma pills more often than not. (That's what I've always heard and observed from my 91 and 93 year old parents, both remarkable and still living in their own home.) And more often than not the legacy of bad habits and the overwork endured to pay for wasteful government programs and irrelevant consumer junk is what lead to the need for all the pills in the first place.

3) Shrink government DRAMATICALLY. To spare yourself, make spare the spoiled government. There are certainly functions suitable for the government - a common currency (if this one is not run in the ground we will all have dodged a bullet) and a standing army are two that come to mind. But so many functions that we have all numbly, dumbly allowed the government to incrementally creep into and take are personal matters between us and our families, between us and those with whom we choose to have and do business - and with the government intruding into those relationships it is just too crowded.

4) Retire the career politicians. Impose term limits. Get some fresh talent into the inbred and declining government pool and maybe it will be less stagnant. Vote the incumbents out in 2010. And 2012.

5) Restore America to a more SOUND economic footing as job one (which brings us back to JOBS, as in one above.) Accept that bankrupting programs such as hubris healthcare, the cap and trade con and other pipedream politician programs will just have to wait (what a novel idea - you don't spend what you don't have. what a good idea - politicians should think before putting their mouths in gear), must have financial reality to ever get off the drawing board, maybe never come into being at all.

6) Then having achieved ALL of the above FIRST, then and only then consider healthcare in a balanced, measured, considered and rational manner. Nothing good happens fast, as this bad healthcare law makes clear. Hopefully it can be repealed ASAP.

7) Push back the government gatekeeper model of healthcare - it is insane that a clerk in a cubicle is telling doctors what they can and cannot do. Repeal HIPPA - there is no "privacy" when your medical record is now in Mombai. And the anti-healthcare facilities are just using this cover to bilk for unnecessary tests in their white-collar scheme. Like pregnancy tests at $450 a pop for postmenopausal women and other abuses. Seek LOCAL solutions to LOCAL problems. No one cares about the health of you, your family and your community more than you and your neighbors, and your neighbors as local officials. The answer is DEcentralization and localized, customized solutions to fit you, your family and your community. NOT a centralized, one-size-fits-all abomination of a health scheme.

And above all the immediate solution is: Vote out the incumbents in 2010. And 2012.

Here is answer to your nonesense rhetoric talheure and Elaine-771403.

Unless you millionaire or billionaire, no job will help you if you have pre-existing condition, you will not get coverage. So stop saying oh get better career or job. I am tired of seeing people pay 700-1200 month for health care premiums because some people don't want to get health insurance or some really can't afford one and when they sick they run to emergency room and then I have to pay for them anyway. so if you have health insurance you will not be affected by bill much and if you don't then you have to help our by getting health insurance or get less in income tax return. Elaine, when did and where did you get idea that government is telling what they can or can't do, give me fact, not from FOX news. You know who does that Health Insurance does that, not government. Local idea will not work due to state don't have enough money to run it. Oh wait that called Medicaid. And by the way the health care law that passed is almost same as one Republicans(Retardicans) offered to Clinton, how conveniently they against it. It not shrinking government we need, but have it right size, you can't lower too much then you get what Reagan and two idiot bushes did to cause economic meltdown, that current president have to spend to keep us afloat. And please stop whining about deficit Republican tea baggers, if you so cared about it why during Reagan, BUSH Sr and JR we grew huge deficits? please give me real reason. When you guys come up with real solutions not whining and pointing fingers then come back and talk

...and who is going to pay for it??? I guess the fact that other countries that you refer to don't have near the population or illegal immigration problems we do... Not to mention countries like Canada who have a very limited military for the last 50 years.. after all don't need it they have the US military courtesy of the US taxpayer to pay for it.. Your comparison is what's dumbed down, to anyone who can basically add there is no way we can afford it.

Capt

They also come to America for the newest treatments and no waiting times. They waiting list in Canada for seeing a general practice doctor is four months. A knee implant is 9 months and a transplant is never. So much for the government single payer option.

Cappy

I wouldn't be so quick on pointing towards the way the do it in other countries. Many of them are so taxed out to pay for it all and the level of service so watered down/delayed that they are talking about abandoning their system in favor of one more like ours (pre Obamacare). Canada and Germany, for example. But why let the facts get in the way of Obama's dream of Big Government/Big Nanny State. Afterall, he will be long gone before we feel the full effects of his massive spending(read deficit spending) programs and the huge tax increases that will have to be put in place to pat for it all.

Commonsense_Texan solved the problem: stop having wars and a big military. The money we've spent on those useless wars just to line the pockets of the military industrial complex could have easily paid for free health care for all for years to come. And good health care too. Good health care need not be expensive just wise. We spend too much in health care to line the pockets of the health industrial complex. We don't need a "big government" to do this, perhaps a streamlined and efficient one would do instead of the fat corrupt one we have now.

Captain, good point, Crusty, Kevin plus stop lying about Canada lines, where you heard this from FOX news, or your friend?

Commonsense_Texan? illegal immigration lol is very small problem, its nice republican distraction.