District court judge blocks federal funding for embryonic stem cell research
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comStem cell reversal: Ill Americans deserve better
Seeded on Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:46 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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Can you say "Activist Judge?" Something the right wing and Faux News are always decrying.
How is it an activist judge when he is just following the letter of the law? Did you read what the law states? The writer of the article spelled it out for you. The writer of the article also in essence wants the judge to be an activist by ignoring the law. But yeah, it is all the fault of Faux News. Or maybe, what people should take away from this article is the law as it is written currently stinks. We should get rid of the restrictions in the law. Then one of the few things I agree with Obama on can actually happen. Change the law. Let federally funded stem embryonic stem cell research on new cell lines begin. The vast majority of these embryonic cells are going to be tossed in a bio hazard bag and disposed of. Why not put them to good use.
The forces of ignorance and superstition are alive and well in the form of Judge Royce Lamberth. Lamberth is the same type of judge who would head witch trials and inquisitions’ during the Middle Ages and all this is being brought to you by a group called the Nightlife Christian Adoptions more religious nuts equivalent to the Taliban trying to force their superstitious, ignorant dogma on the world.
Even the writer of the article states the order is in clear violation of the law. The only question seems to be if the complaining parties have standing. Since a higher court gave to OK for the case to proceed the judge ruled the only way he could.
I am 100% in favor of embryonic stem cell research. But this amendment needs to be overturned to get the matter out of the courts quickly.
If we are to make any progress in debating the legal, moral, ethical, financial, social, psychological and medical ramifications of embryonic stem cell research, then we must abandon perjorative ad hominem arguments. State your position, offer your argument in a valid form, and demonstrate your conclusions.
I'm all for stem cell research if it can help the sick and injured do it. So many embryos are abandoned or throw out why not push medicine into the future, so much good could come of it. I understand money is a big issue but on the other hand so much money is waisted on things such as government employees big bonuses, etc. Now we need to check out other options to help cure the sick and hardly living. If there was a chance you or your loved one could be saved by the potential out come of this research wouldn'tyou take it? If you are anti killing embryos then thing of it this way Theses embroyes arent dying in vain they're dying so other may have a chance to live a better life. So you can see it as they are being reborn.
If they're against killing stem cells then they have to ban the creation of stem cells. I don't know why none of these articles mention it: UNUSED STEM CELLS ARE INCINERATED. aka: "KILLED". What difference does it make if they are used for science, if they're going to be incinerated anyway? If you are again "killing" embryos, then you need to lobby for them not to be created in the first place!! The illogic in the argument about "killing embryos for stem cell research" is mind-boggling!
Have to admit I'm confused by the article. Sounds like he's saying "yes, Obama's executive order is a clear violation of the amendment, but the judge should suspend any ruling on this because the case in consideration is without merit." I didn't see an argument that the case was without merit, I DID see that the author agreed the amendment and executive order were in direct conflict, and finally, the whole thing was thrown to an appeal that there were some immediate magical cures which would soon be made available that are dependent upon the continuation of embryonic stem cell research - again, just asserted, not argued. I don't get it. Is he making a case, or just emoting?
PS - Ines, your comments are chilling, in the extreme. "these embryos aren't dying in vain - they're dying so others may have a chance to live a better life." I guess the end justifies the means? Well that makes it all OK, then, doesn't it?
You have the right to your opinion, Ben, but if you are against the use of otherwise discarded embryos in stem cell research, you must throw equal emotion and effort into shutting down all IVF clinics as this is where these embryos are created and unused ones ultimately destroyed. Or does that end justify its means?
The logic would lead to the parents of the hundreds of thousands of embryos that arent born as babies, being charged with murder. If they create and abandon these embryos, it should be a crime.
I'm pro choice which is why i made the comment "if you're anti killing embryos" thousands if not millions of embryos are being unused and tossed away. Why not give the "parents" of the embryos the option instead of throwing away the embryos give them to science who will hopefully be able to find curse for debilitating illness. And for abandoned embryos after a clinics and exhausted it way to contact the "parents" instead of disposing of them give them to science. Its not a full term baby were talking about its an embryo( ) n. , pl. , -os . An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
This is to "dubiouslyconcerned,"
Are you saying that if I'm against domestic violence I have to marry every one of them?
You seem unaware that other countries have very strict rules about in vitro embryos, mandating the maximum number of embryos that may be created and some even mandate that all embryos that are created must be implanted.
There is a strong argument that embryos are created to be children, an end unto themselves. Mom and dad pay to intentionally take advantage of licensed medical personnel and technology because they desire to hold a child in their arms. What makes the brothers and sisters of those babies already in their parent's arms not human-enough to be protected from becoming means to someone else's ends, especially when it means the intentional and purposeful use of more licensed personnel and technology to deliberately end their lives?
Well, BNuckols, then those who participate in IVF must be required to implant every single one of those brothers and sisters, otherwise they are not being protected but rather are involved in the "intentional and purposeful use of more licensed personnel and technology to deliberately end their lives." You can't have it both ways.
I understand that there are c. 300,000 patients in the world that have been treated with adult stem cell therapies for quite a number of years, whereas there are supposedly ZERO patients who are being treated with embryonic stem cell therapies. As with much of what is called "research," just follow not the money trail, but the middle class paycheck trail. A good example of this is the Dead Sea scrolls. Once they were made public, you no longer heard about researcher seeking funds to "research" them.
http://www.punditandpundette.com/2009/03/induced-pluripotent-stem-cells-have.html
Your point isn't clear...
Once again, the rest of the world will continue to pass us by...
We are on the precipice of many scientific revolutions that America will be a minor player in. As the rest of the industrialized world moves forward, we continue to move backwards, hamstrung by endemic ignorance, superstition and stupidity...
This is 1 of the most realistic postings I have read in a long time! USA has lost dominance in so many things because of being hamstrung by emotion and politically correctness! One of the few things USA still excels in is our higher education system and many graduates are from other countries while USA students drop out at a high rate because of lack of preparation in USA Primary & Secondary schools that teach "feel good" instead of "get smart"!! Research is going to other countries after graduating from USA Universities. In a recent survey only 5% of CEO's said USA still exports innovation! Reason is Judge decisions like this prevent it!
It is my understanding that for quite a number of years there have been c. 300,000 patients benefitting from adult stem cell therapies, whereas there are ZERO patients being treated with embryonic stem cell therapies. Perhaps this is really about never ending "research" with its accompanying never ending middle class paychecks. Remember all those grants that were given to "research" the Dead Sea scrolls? Once the scrolls were made public, you never again heard about grants to study them.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/10/AR2009031002842.html
I disagree with this professors view of how we make ethical decisions simply for potentially beneficial outcomes. Killing and or using killed fetuses for the benefit of those alive (albeit greatly suffering) in not ethical. This is still killing. As well, as others have pointed out the quality of research using adult stem cell therapies provides significant potential for medical advancement. We as a society should do more and better research. But not at the expense of infants. I am not concerned with appearing to keep up with other countries or trying to be first in some discovery. That is not good motivation for medical research.
Do you have similar concerns re: IVF clinics then? Or is that different to you? Where do you think these embryos come from? They aren't being created just for research.
Thing is they aren't talking about killing a fetus. They are talking about taking a ball of cells, likely smaller than the period at the end of this sentence, and using them for research. This dot of embryonic cells won't have ever been implanted in a woman to develop. Dots as small as that are failed pregnancies all the time. If I recall correctly, roughly 50% of pregnancies end in failure by the end of the first month. A woman has her period and never knows she was even pregnant.
If we allow people to have abortions in this country, where a developing embryo, or fetus depending on the stage of development, then using a cluster of cells that never were growing in a person should be no problem. With that being said, there are obviously many people who don't feel abortions are acceptable either. But at least with the abortion debate, both sides have good points. Thats why it will never end. Both pro life and pro choice are right.
Those who create all these embryos should be responsible for them. They can pay to store them until they can be born. Or they can be charged with crimes like neglect or murder even.
embryo( ) n. , pl. , -os . An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form. why should they be charged with neglect or murder. A clinic purposely fertilizes several eggs in hops that at least 1 will attach and develop. what if the couple separates, most people don't what to have a baby that was fertilized by an ex they want their own. And why be charged with neglect the embryo cant live out of it tube and the only care needed for theses embryos is freezing temperatures. So theses embryos are frozen not developing. I can bet you anything most people in this economic crisis have made the decision to discontinue theses clinic's services to keep their embryos frozen because of the cost. IF they were to kill their living breathing baby then yes, charge with MURDER AND NEGLECT because with proper care they couldve lived but to charge a parent of an embryo with such harsh crimes is ridiculous so women who miscarried should be charged with murder and neglects too? Because unforeseen and uncontrolled circumstances played in the role of the miscarriage. Also should clinics who had system failure and as a result embroys were "lost" should they also be charged?
dubiouslyconcerned- According to many it is GOD that creates the embryos, so what do you want us to do crucify him?
I call dibs on T-shirt concessions though!
If that is what you believe then by all means you or your family should not consider procedures like abortions or embryotic stem cell transplants.
Just because I do not share your beliefs, does not make me unethical. What is unethical is when you attempt to force your beliefs on others.
If they're against killing stem cells then they have to ban the creation of stem cells. I don't know why none of these articles mention it: UNUSED STEM CELLS ARE INCINERATED. aka: "KILLED". What difference does it make if they are used for science, if they're going to be incinerated anyway? If you are against "killing" embryos, then you need to lobby for them not to be created in the first place!!
Birdman2010, You obviously believe in the difference between right and wrong (else why argue "ethical" at all?). You don't really think that might makes right, do you? If not, what's the difference between your force that ends the lives of embryonic humans and the force that would make you follow the law? Well, besides the fact that you are not actually irrevocably harmed.
mduckworth, it's okay to create stem cells and use them, as long as no one dies. (You do recognize that not all stem cells are embryonic, don't you? And that the stem cells are part of the embryo, only present after the embryo has at least 3 identifiable cell types - in other words, the embryo has proven that an organized and healthy organism. The embryo ceases to exist when the stem cells are removed.)
I have an uncle who suffers from brain stem injuries and who could potentially benefit from stem cell research, but I still have this one question that looms, when do humans stop trying to play god? If there is no suffering, no hills to get over, how will people ever know how fragile and beautiful life is? Am I saying that I wouldn't love to see my uncle walk again, no. What I am saying is that if there was some cure for his trauma that I wouldn't be the person I am today, that I would never know tragedy and I would never know how lucky I am. And besides my question of where do we draw the line, there is also the point that patients benefit from the use of their own adult stem cells more so than they can from donor embryonic stem cells. People have been treated with adult stem cells for decades, and some people have even invested into having their children's umbilical cord blood saved because it is rich in stem cells that could later save their lives. People need not be so naive about stem cell research, the inability to use embryonic stem cells is not that much of a loss when you look at the whole picture.
Never. We Never "stop trying to play god." If we had, your uncle probably wouldn't still be alive now with the brain stem injuries he currently has. There have been many times over the years in which new medical technology was about to come forth and groups touted this very argument against it - when will you stop trying to play god? Yet after science pushed on, those same groups would have no problem benefiting from those very therapies. My question in response: when do humans stop playing hypocrites? When will you denounce any and all available treatments that may have come from what you think was unnecessary use of embryos? (You can start w/ some vaccines.)
Furthermore, those with little or no scientific knowledge (as you say, naive) should try not to comment on those subjects they know nothing about. Then, you wouldn't so easily decry the use of embryo stem cells over adult. There is a difference between the two, and there are some concerns over the latter. If not, why on earth would scientists even go after the former? I don't have enough time or space to give you the information you would need to make a "not so naive" judgment call on this subject, and you clearly are not prepared. Instead, why don't you continue to enjoy your beautiful, fragile, life and when the you know what hits the fan, hopefully there will be good medical science available to you and your loved ones even if you didn't support it.
saws - If you bothered to do your research, you would know that umbilical cord blood actually shows just as much potential as embryonic stems cells. The stem cells found in umbilical cord blood can be manipulated in much of the same, they are also less likely to be rejected than adult stem cells and they don't raise any of the moral issues that some people object to. Also, there is a lot of research and documentation out there showing that embryonic stem cells cause tumors - so if your loved one had a brain injury would you rather they be cured of that then die of a brain tumor? I have studied this topic for years, so please don't call me naive. And trust me I very well know the hypocracy of what I said about playing god, because it is a constant debate that I go through in my head.
God is a fairy tale and religion is the opiate of the masses to allow weak minded and fearful people to understand and cope with the natural world around them.
Anyone who hides behind and believes in religion is confused. Come on, it is the 21st century, time to escape from these superstitious myths created to control people and to face reality. All religions are idiotic and based of fairy tales and myths.
SRK-2254520
That's cute, but wrong.
If you truly had "studied this topic for years" then you'd know the difference between a multipotent and pluripotent stem cell. Here's a hint: One (umbilical) is certainly more versatile than adult stem cells & can become many different types of cells, but there are limitations. The other (embryonic) is completely undifferentiated and has the capacity to become any type of cell. Herein likes the BIG.FAT.HUGE difference.
Furthermore - the amount of cord blood stem cells is considerably less per umbilical cord & they do not culture/grow as well as embryonic. What does this mean? Much harder to use in research. Second, you cannot create an exact genetic copy with umbilical cord stem cells except for use in the individual the cord blood came from...guess which kind you can use to do this for anyone? Here's another hint: it aint from the adult stem cells either.
And studies that show hESCs cause tumors?!? Really?!? Sources please?
Next?
for once a judge was being an activist for just because an amendment stated no federal funds can be used to destroy embryos for research does not mean researchers could not look at other ways to get lines for research like maybe using cloning or working with other countries. this ruling will unless its over turned fast will have the u.s wind up farther behind in the research farther then we are and the u.s thanks to the judge will wind up losing in the end. for once a judge ruled as an activist.
If it's not much of a loss then WTF is the difference? To few telling the rest of the United States what is right and wrong with every thing.
Since I am not " a God"fearing but believe that "a God" gave us science for a reason and brains to make decisions based on TODAY'S world.
Not one based on thousands of years ago when our knowledge of science was the world was flat and WE were the center of the universe, almost dragging our knuckles, if one believes that.
It's time to use what we have to heal the sick that have been waiting for too long already.
My point is that much of what is referred as important research, IMO, is quite often a vehicle to continue getting funding that can be turned into middle class paychecks for researchers. Without such funding, researchers can become unemployed. The example of the Dead Sea scrolls was chosen because they were studied for c. 45 years. As a matter of fact, when I am leading a project, one of the first things I tell my team as that we are not working on the Dead Sea scrolls; in other words, let's get it done.
So who determines that this line of research will or will not develop into a viable breakthrough? Isn't that the point of research - to see if this action will produce this reaction?
**cough**cough**Adult Stem Cell Research**cough**
*Cough* *cough*. I am a geneticist by education and I can tell you that at least at this time, embryonic stem cells potentially hold more promise than adult stem cells. *Cough* *cough*
Let the research move forward. Change the law there can be at least hope for people who have disorders that may potentially be treatable with what we will learn from the research.
There will be no logical debate about this subject until people can leave their silly superstitions at the door and treat the issue as it is meant to be treated, in the scientific community. Since when do we allow religious bigots to decide national policies? I don't believe life starts at conception. Does that mean I have to be bound to a country that bases its scientific decisions on religion? Why should someone's religious beliefs allow many to suffer needlessly?
As the mom of a visually disabled child whose retinal degenerative disease will almost certainly be halted by stem cell treatments, this is just another delay in her getting some sort of cure - a delay that might result in her going blind. It is unconscionable to me that cures that could help so many people, many of them even more severely afflicted than my daughter, are being continually delayed by politics. It breaks my heart that so many people will continue to suffer needlessly due to this type of political interference. You can bet that I will be looking at other countries where they value ending human suffering over politics to provide a cure for my daughter.
I'm really impressed by the quality of bio-ethical argument conveyed by those opposed to embyonic stem cell research who see a better way to finding medical improvements/cures than destruction of life. I agree with Ben. Sounds like the author didn't disagree with the judge's conclusion, he just doesn't like the implications.
Earlier this week I listened as a young student in a wheelchair with cerebral palsey cried out to God for more of God. He wants healing. He believes God will heal him but he doesn't care when. He serves a God who heals, and he loves this God and he wants to glorify God more than he wants his own desparately needed healing. Suffering is hard. As a parent I know one of the most difficult things in life is to see your child suffer. But we fall way short if our highest aspirations are the elimination of pain and suffering and the pursuit of pleasure. Many will dismiss this as religious mumbo-jumbo, but there is a far greater reality that transcends the day-to-day existence of most of earth's inhabitants. We didn't evolve from pond scum. We were carefully chosen and created in love for the purposes of the Almighty. God is love. God is just. God is truth. God is life. God is merciful. God is righteous. God is holy. His discipline and His delight, His anger and His peace are never in contradiction. And deep within the soul of every man is a pure hatred of this God. It is only by the quickening of the Holy Spirit of this great God that we can see and know our sin, and cry out for mercy in repentance, that we may know Him and learn to love Him. It is in that place that the only real life is found. O' that we would open our eyes and see.
That's a really beautiful sentiment Qweltr. I think it's amazing that you have such faith in the healing power of God. I don't think it's reigious mumbo jumbo. Your faith is admirable and I respect that. But I don't believe in God in the same way you do and I don't think it's right for those who do to keep others from a different path. It's simply a decision you cannot make for me. You go your way, I will go mine. Don't tell me that I can't have an abortion because your God says it's evil. Don't tell me I can't save the lives or prevent the suffering of thousands of people because your God says a group of cells is sacred. You can practice your faith however you wish as long as it doesn't strip me of my rights.
God is a fairy tale and religion is the opiate of the masses to allow weak minded and fearful people to understand and cope with the natural world around them.
Anyone who hides behind and believes in religion is confused. Come on, it is the 21st century, time to escape from these superstitious myths created to control people and to face reality. All religions are idiotic and based of fairy tales and myths.
Amen Qweltr, well said. Nicole, some things are right whether you believe them or not. What you speak of is moral relativism, what's good for you is fine, what's good for me is fine. Doesn't there have to be something that is pure truth? Killing one for the benefit of another does not make us progressive, it makes us barbaric.
Oh, and Chris, God loves you too even though you feel this way. We will pray for you...
Why do intellectuals have to be handcuffed to the superstitions of a magical book of fairy tales? I didn't remember the section of the bible that opposed embryonic stem cells? What was that genesis or revelations? If you wish to remain ignorant, it is your choice. But the rest of us who wish to move forward, shouldn't have to drag you around with us. No one is telling you you have to support ESR, use techniques or treatments from ESR, hell even say embryonic stem cell research, we just want the ability to practice OUR religion, SCIENCE!
Embryos are microscopic cells that couldn't fit on the head of a pin. It's very disheartening that Protestant evangelicals and conservative Catholics hold the ridiculous belief that every embryo has a soul. I've been paralyzed for 10 years and am appalled by this ignorance and superstition.
I agree. If these embryos are people then there are a lot of muderers out there when they dispose of the ones no longer used. I can see the use as a way to memoralize the embryos into ways to help others who have lives but need cures or treatments
Once again the party of no says no. A minority group of religious fanatics blocks progress and better health for us all. American Taliban, they inserted the amendment, they appointed the judge. Are their victums any less brutalized than the villagers of Afghanistan? They are doomed to be paralysed and blinded, with a cure so very close, by an orthodoxy they do not share. Where is American religious freedom? The struggle against religious extremism is as much here as there. We must fight it with votes. That amendment will be there as long as republican votes are required to pass the law.
God help us!
By the way, my background includes work as a hospital administrator and health care executive. My comments are informed by many years in the health care industry. I believe in life and life-giving treatment. Eugenics, euthanasia, abortion, physician-assisted suicide and embryonic stem-cell research and treatment are all life-taking. I don't pretend to understand everything about everyone's suffering. I've watched patients get their wounds scrubbed in burn care units. I've watched family members endure as multiple loved ones lay dying in the emergency room. And I've lived with intense physical pain for years that stem cell research might one day alleviate. But how can we claim to be human and not love and above all support life?
So it's OK to incinerate the unused embryos, but not use them for research? Isn't incinerating them also "life-taking" according to you? How is that supporting life?
blackwood25 banned, spamming.
just to make it clear, embryos are not humans and aren't "killed" per se. They are cells that make a fertilized egg that is awaiting a host(uterus) , oxygen and nutrition to have potential to become a fetus.
Please keep emotion out of the sentence and keep the info clear. There is no "dying in vain"; that implies they are alive of which clearly they are not.
This is why this country is falling so far behind the rest of the world. Every time some progress in any field is making headway some 'activist' organization comes along and sues to have it stopped.
It aalso amazes me that people says the stem cells could be viable fetuses and should not be used in research but don't complain when these same stem cells are discarded.
I'm glad that bone marrow transplant research was not hindered by the idiot groups and bigger idiot judges or I'd be typing from the other side of the grass.
This is political BS!!! As someone who could benefit from this science, I am totally frustrated and disgusted with the US handling of the matter. Do some research folks, stem cells, be it from embryos, placenta, or even our own fat, have been used in other countries for YEARS, and continue to advance everyday! Why are we so behind? Politics, cash cows for the pharmaceutical companies, religious fanatics, etc. The US is no longer the leader in health-care and/or advances, and with this delay, we risk falling behind even further. It would seem that the US people don't really hold a lot of pull in what we need over what "they" want.
Great, once again the religiots in America will stunt our ability to compete in the global economy. Then, when the rest of the scientific world is kicking our collective economic butts, they will whine that greedy CEO's are exporting our jobs. Welcome to the end of the Republic as we know it.
So it is up to congress to change the law?
Good luck on this 3rd Rail, too many people want to say potential life is life.
My opinion is if a woman elects to have an abortion or a person elects to have embryotic stem cell transplant it is their business. IF this goes against your religous beliefs than by all means do not seek these procedures.
Unfortunately you have too many people that cannot even except the fact of Roe vs. Wade is law, and believe they know what is best for you and me.
We have research that could change medical science, not to mention the potential economical impacts, and we get a cease and desist. ALL in the name of God?
SO MANY PEOPLE want to mock radical Muslims, when Christianity is just as much crap as all the other organized cults. WITH that said it is your right to practice what ever voodoo you want, but keep it out of my yard!!!
To steal a lyric from Johnny Paycheck; Take your God and Shove It!
Birdman 2010...
I like your response most of all................couldnt agree with you more!
excellent post BIRD!!!
Yep Ben it makes it right.