As long as drug companies pay doctors to study effects the outcome will be the same. The only way to get ay true results is have them tested by people that have nothing to gain. Once again big corporations win and the little man pays the price for greed. I am glad the FDA was able to get some money to ease their collective minds for not doing the right thing yet again. Too bad nobody wants to be proactive.
This is relevant!
This article is not about legalizing Cannabis, it's about using it as a legitimate medicine to ease the needless suffering of millions of people! Thank God! This time it's PTSD. Tomorrow it may be autism or lupus or another. If you don't like it, don't read it!
Kaneh bosm!
Garry Minor
General use of cannabis for PTSD Symptoms
Raphael Mechoulam, Ph.D.
Dr. Mechoulam is the Israeli scientist who identified THC as the psychoactive compound in marijuana, and decades later he discovered the brain's endocannabinoid system and the endogenous neurotransmitter anandamide. He is one of the most respected Israeli neuroscientists and has been a senior advisor to the Israeli government on marijuana policy and the ethics of research with human subjects. He discussed his experiments demonstrating the neuroprotective effects of the endocannabinoid system in mice that have had traumatic injuries to the brain. He believes the neuroprotective effects of marijuana may eventually have applications for other neurological and psychiatric conditions, including Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease.
Another fascinating discovery, one with implications for PTSD, is that the cannabinoid system is integrally related to memory, specifically to memory extinction. Memory extinction is the normal, healthy process of removing associations from stimuli. Dr. Mechoulam explained that an animal which has been administered an electric shock after a certain noise will eventually forget about the shock after the noise appears alone for a few days. Mice without cannabinoid systems simply never forget - they continue to cringe at the noise indefinitely.
This has implications for patients with PTSD, who respond to stimuli that remind them of their initial trauma even when it is no longer appropriate. By aiding in memory extinction, marijuana could help patients reduce their association between stimuli (perhaps loud noises or stress) and the traumatic situations in their past. Working with Army psychiatrists, Dr. Mechoulam has obtained the necessary approvals for a study on PTSD in Israeli veterans, and hopes to begin the study soon.
The Alternative Medical Journal: General use of cannabis for PTSD Symptoms.
Sorry about the intro, but, it seems that we have some very sensitive readers when it comes to revealing the many medicinal, nutritional, industrial, and Spiritual wonders of this plant! How could you not want to help someone?
Our society is filled with doctors that prescribe some sort of medication at a moments notice, which contributes to the fact that America has become a pill popping society. Thanks to the pharmaceutical companies we have more prescription pills lying around homes more than at any other time in our history. That being said, people have to take responsibilities for thier own actions. I am not saying that this young man deserved to die, however, he should have been more responsible for his drug interactions. This is tragic for his family and I understand thier concern, I am sure I would feel exactly the same if it were my child that this happened to. I do ask myself, who supplied him with the pain killers?
Ken, I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a moderate amount of higher education, but I don't have the hubris to think I am better qualified to comprehend drug interactions than a doctor. What is a young person without the benefit of a Phd to do when confronted with a medical situation they cannot understand? Turn to the "experts" who pretty much do what the marketing geniuses at big pharma tell them.
Taterwheel- I must say I disagree. I have a slew of medical issues, from chronic pain, depression, PTSD, OCD, and God knows what else! I know more about the interactions of meds than many of my docs. They have PDR on line (physician desk reference) that tells one about the meds. I had a doc prescribe Wellbutrin for depression and Ultram for pain. I knew it was a no-no. Wellbutrin can cause a lower seizure threshold of Ultram. Another doc put me on Clonidine for opiate withdrawal symptoms. Though it is used often, it is usually done INPATIENT because it is a blood pressure medication. My blood pressure dropped out and I wound up passing out, hitting my head, and in the ER. When I go to the doctor's office, I usually know as much about the drugs I am taking, or those they may give me because I've researched endlessly! Seroquel almost got me arrested! I was taking it for depression and one day while shopping, I was getting paranoid and very agitated. I thought I was going to snap! I had to leave the basket and get home. Another trip to my psychiatrist resulted in him talking to me about Pres. Johnson's penis (yes, you read that right)! He handed me some meds that a med salesperson just handed him and left. "Here, take some of these." I have lost nearly all confidence in the medical community. And I feel sorry for those families who have lost loved ones from being prescribed the wrong meds!
Another trip to my psychiatrist resulted in him talking to me about Pres. Johnson's penis (yes, you read that right)! He handed me some meds that a med salesperson just handed him and left. "Here, take some of these." I have lost nearly all confidence in the medical community.
RJ-They (the medical "professionals" in general and the psychiatric community at large) have created this sentiment by their blatant shilling and corrupt relationship with drug cos. Your research and efforts to define EXACTLY WHAT they hand to you is WELL PLACED AND HEALTHY.
Here's additional resource's for drug interactions, adverse reactions and negative reports.
In addition to its dangerous and violent side effects, Seroquel and its maker have been fined in the BILLIONS recently for its failure to disclose data showing a link to obesity, diabetes, and for promoting off label uses. This data was found during clinical approval studies and buried by the drugs maker.
That's a NICE reward for putting their life on the line in battles zones.
Let the bashing of drug companies begin. One word of caution: Although I agree that the system needs to change - truly independent drug studies would be a good start - I am reluctant to dub drug companies the big evil of our society. If not for drug companies I would be dead right now, no two ways about it. I lost my thyroid to cancer last year and I am just grateful that there are drug companies that did the research and came up with a thyroid hormone replacement pill and continue to produce them at a reasonable cost. A person cannot live without thyroid hormone and without my daily pill, I'd hav no way to replace what my body is no longer able to make. I'd be dead. So before we start bashing all the drug companies for their greed and demanding lawsuits to bring them to their knees and bankrupt them for some of their less-than-honorable practices -- remember there is still a lot of good that comes from drug companies. There needs to be changes made - better oversight of practices (particularly studies), less involvement between drug companies and doctors, no marketing of prescription drugs directly to consumers, etc - but let's not brand them all as evil, ok? Reform the idustry, just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Nice post Saddened. Hoping that your thyroid problems are totally behind you (except for the need for the meds apparently). You are right, pharma does give us consumers relief from a malady of health issues, and the needs for reform you so eloquently included sound very common sense. It seems no industry is above corruption if left unchecked, no matter the good they also do.
The "standard of care", as instantiated in such services as the VA, which is informed by the biopsychiatric approach to treating PTSD has, at best, met with mixed results. For decades now, there has been considerable debate over whether treatment of combat-related psychiatric conditions be approached as purely medical, or as a psychosocial "condition"(or an admixture of both). To date, the VA seems to maintain its paradigmatic approach in treating soldiers as one would an "organic" disorder.
The VA, as a federal administration, has seen fit to "treat" as it does, not because of the success rates, but more importantly, for that of expediency. The medicalizing of the moral and social, that is the blood letting of battle, the mplications of war, of the toll it takes on the "susceptible" psyche, are just too overwhelming for a system which concerns itself with the status quo. As the liberal psychiatric establishment would have it: Alter the individual and you alter the social. This is exactly what the psychiatrist qua social engineers has effected, certainly the VA system. In effect, psychiatry is our culture's social and political tranquilizer, and, I dare say, medicine does not figure foremost.
seems to me that an important fact is being overlooked. he was taking a drug that was not prescribed. duh!!! maybe that had something to do with his death. needs to be investigated correctly to identify the real cause of death and what was to blame. don't blame the legal prescribed drug until you have all the facts.
Your assertion, at face value, is reasonable enough. However, I don't think it is too far fetched to consider many of the psychotropics as questionably therapeutic. As to date, there is no satisfactory etiology of PTSD. All manner of biopsychiatric model has been proposed, but no one postulation points to a disease marker, and for good reason! PTSD has been around as long as humankind has been warring. The bloodletting that is battle is traumatic and, no doubt, there are those who are more susceptible than others. However, there is no unanimity on the etiology of PTSD. It has been suggested, that it is the very nature of treating PTSD solely as a biological "abnormality", might be the very thing giving rise to the "negative therapeutic outcomes". In short, the trauma that is war does not affect everyone in the same way. And, I would go further and say, that it isn't in the appeal to the purely biological that one stands to address this supposed medically emergent issue.
More importantly, it is the psychosocial state of the individual soldier,and his or her "network" of social support , that seems to hold greater promise of treating an existential issue. Any holism, be it biopsychiatric or not, will fail to take into account the importance of the social matrix in the soldiers life, and the importance that such connectedness lends to any treatment modality.
A 'dr' (many of whom are on payroll by the drug companies to WRITE these prescriptions) ISN'T going to change the chemicals in the drug and the way they react to the body.
Seroquel was KNOWN and FOUND to have detrimental side effects DURING CLINICAL TRIALS. The drug company BURIED these findings so they could obtain approval & there by MAXIMIZE their profit margin.
A recent stat- one company holding patents on 12 drugs made OVER $180 BILLION and was fined $2.3 BILLION for violating federal regulations. QUITE a business plan & profit margin.
Great, I was just put on this medication because I cannot sleep, I have never been able to my whole life. I told them it makes me feel angry, my friends and work partners have dubbed it the "mean pill" and have mentioned I say terrible things that I would never say any other time. I wake up as mad as a wet hornet and I feel worse than having a bad hangover...looks like I need some other drug, been through numerous sleep studies...I have tried them all so far and that is why they put me on this one.
I am no doctor just a vet with my own issues, I use Trazodone for my sleep. I take it for about six months and my sleep time degrades the other six months. I take the scrip dose for a couple of months then take one half the dose for four. I know ninety percent of the time one persons crap is different than anybody elses, I hope your in the ten percentile
They gave me generic Ambien at the V.A. However, I have better luck with 2.5 mgs of Valium and two melatonin tabs and try to go to sleep at the same time every night. I try to avoid naps during the day. Sometimes, bad pain wakes me up and I do half a pain pill and go back to bed, but that does not happen often.
Seroquel taken at night as a sleep aid made me into a zombie.
Also 25 mg of benadryl is better than Trazadone. Been there and done that. For PTSD I take 40 mg of Celexa once a day and two 5 mg. Valium tabs. That seems to work the best once you come to terms with "how your PTSD affects you and what you have to avoid."
trazadone was origanally prescribed for anti depression, having found in studies its redeaming qualities in drowsiness, it has been prescribed off label for a long time now for sleep dissorders as i have been prescribed it for same. seriquel is a aweful drug! it does indeed cause anger and in cases people have slept for up to 2 days! as far as these folks dyeing looks like alot was drug interaction, opiate pain meds are the widest abused drug of any and thats including street drugs! problem is they are over prescribed and the dr and hospitals being forced to comply in treating pain simply throw opiates at anyone who hurts! thus for addiction is almost garaunteed when taken longer than 30 days strait. america is addicted.
RoadDog give it some time. I've been on 300mg of seroquel for almost 3 years and as long as I take 2-3 mg of ativan to operate the on/off switch it works great. I know everybody is different but I go to the gym 5 days a week for 2 hours a day, watch and control my food intake and my physical health has never been better since 1972. Prior to dumping the VA and seeing some real docs and getting real treatment I was a walking disaster. My psych doc says it's time to go back and try to deal with the VA again. Maybe they're treating the Vietnam vets different now. Sgt. E-5 67-73
Holy crap! Seroquel is like giving a guy propofol. I can't believe they would give that to soldier under any circumstance! These parents have a right to be enraged.
What a tragedy. I hope that his families of these heroes are able to cope with their losses and not get consumed in the political turmoil and finger pointing that is sure to come from this information going public.
One of the persons in this article said she "trusted the doctors and the drug companies" and now that her son died, she apparently thinks that trust is violated. In some cases this may be accurate; perhaps so in this case, but I don't have the data to judge at this time. However, what people don't realize is that medicine is not a "rocket science". It is still an art in these borders of knowlege like treating PTSD. These doctors and drug companies were probably well meaning. It is just when you're treating massive numbers of people with severe problems in areas where there isn't a lot of research, bad things can and do happen. The only alternative is not treating people.
On the other hand, the government needs to get off their butt and fund some research on PTSD, brain injury, and other research, if it is going to continue to fight massively expensive wars that damage and kill our young people. I'm not against fighting wars, just dumb wars like Iraq that make us take our eye off the Osama Bin Ladin ball. If we could have put all that time and money into Afghanistan initially, we could have come closer to having a successful outcome, but we dithered and now we are paying the price.
Our local VA hires psychologists that also treat PTSD with EMDR. ( www.emdr.com/ ) It is one of a few more psychological methods used to treat PTSD and in conjunction with medications it definitely helps.
I know of one local physician who gave his wife seroquel for her fibromyalgia. This is a painful, but non-fatal muscle pain disease mostly caused by sleeping problems. Thus, for him to give his wife whom he loves this, I would have to presume he thinks this is not something that would kill or harm her. Innocuous, no, helpful yes.
Now the polypharmacy is an issue and is something that makes pharmacists crazy. However, there are now many programs out there that track all the medications a person is on and will alert a doctor if there is a potential problem. However, if not all medications are listed, it is potentially useless, as was possibly the case here.
So, while this makes for good media, it is so typical of the potential medical side effects of practically any medication a person can name - how about tylenol? Very fatal in high doses, but it is over the counter. Thus, while there needs to be responsibility by the doctor, the drug companies, and the patient and their families, we also need to realize that some people will also die from medications.
There is a trade off and we as a society have to come to terms with what this is and if we are willing to accept it. Otherwise, the trial lawyers will just get richer and richer.
Why isn't every veteran given screenings for TBI? I'm not talking about interviews, either, I'm talking about SPECT scans to determine the damage done from concussions they are exposed to.
PTSD is a handy diagnosis to give when the only thing offered is an interview with a psychiatrist and a drug catalogue.
No human is in need of that many chemicals without having an underlying physiologial cause for symptoms.
This young man is, unfortunately, a poster child as it were, for the limits and pervasiveness of drugs, drug marketing and the robotic process of "modern" healthcare.
He is, unfortunately for he and his family, the storm crow of what veteran's families have to look forward to in the days, months and years to come.
Ive thought for a couple of years that off label prescribing of Seroquel should be BANNED no matter WHO the psysician is! Psychatrists are very cavalier about prescribing medications!
I've never been in the service but I've had PTSD and I've been on meds for over 12 years. I've been on Seroquel for over 9 years. I take a cocktail of medications to keep myself stable.
There are a number of side effects to all the medications that I take, the psych ones and the ones for other health reasons. Each person has to be aware of the side effects and not take the word of the doctors. You have to do your own research, you have to be aware of what you put in your body.
Yes, I did this when I was at rock bottom because I had adverse reactions to many medications they tried me on when they were trying to get me stable.
The other thing that is important is, each psych needs to listen to the patient, no matter who they are. If you are not feeling right on your meds after a week or so (time for your body to adjust), you shouldn't have to keep taking them. Slurred speech, jerking limbs, joint pain are all indications that there is a problem.
The other thing is: the lowest possible dose should be used in all cases and any increase in dose should be carefully monitored. I called my pdoc many times when things weren't right and told him I was stopping medication because I didn't feel right.
I am sorry that so many have died because of Seroquel or the mixture of medications. This tells me that the pdoc's who are handing out the meds aren't doing their jobs. This means the Federal Government isn't doing their job.
Something needs to be done about this because these young men and woman are fighting for our country and coming home and fighting for their lives. There is no reason for what they are going thru with their medications.
Again, I'm sorry for what all of your are going through and I hope things get better. Stand up for your rights and don't let others dictate what you should and shouldn't put in your body.
"...and decades later he discovered the brain's endocannabinoid system" Now, even the potheads have a theory for ADHD, thanks to the professors work on the endocannabinoid system. As it stands, there is never a clear connection, for example, between the endocannabinoid system, and its link to either PTSD or ADHD. The lacunae between the brain science and the understanding of how drugs work to "treat" mental illness and disorder, is most problematic and, to date, still speculative. It might seem a moot point to ask whether the drugs actually do treat a medical condition, rather than, say, mask or dull affect, but I think that such a distinction needs to be transparently discussed. Obviously, in matters of treatment, the mental health profession has become heavily reliant on some disease model or other. It is this seeming intransigence, in the face of many contradictions and inconsistencies, that the MH profession might be making people truly susceptible. Most "mental illnesses" and emotional trauma do work themselves out, and I cannot find anything to substantiate that drugs are of any long-term benefit, if any at all.
Our military fighting men are not cut out to be cold hearted unremorseful killers. During WW11 our fighting men had a patriotic reason to kill the Japanese, Germans and their allies. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan is not the same as we are fighting within these countries primarily for political reasons and not to protect the U.S. homeland from actual invasion. Its no wonder that our military men come home with emotional problems as they are not cut out to be what they are made and required to be.
He's not dead he's sleeping have you checked?after all he was taking a powerful drug to help him sleep This drug works it put them to SLEEP wasn't that the complaint?
A nurse asked the doctor to give Seroquel to my mom on her first day of admission related to respiratory issues. The nurse, who had been caught slapping my mom, thought it would be calming.
We looked it up and told the doctor NOT to give it to her. It is only an ACCIDENT that my brother overheard the conversation and intervened. Otherwise, they woulda had her doped up with it. It can give dementia to people who don't have it, for starters - and she didn't. And the heart and respiratory cautions should get this thing black-boxed.
The nurses had gone to a pizza luncheon where they received pens and notepads (and pizza) from the makers of the drug that week...
This subject really bothers me. Most disturbing is that we medicate soldiers for PTSD and then send them back out on the battlefield. All of these heros should receive a Purple Heart as PTSD is an injury. I can't understand why they don't. The problem with these meds is not just a military problem, but a national problem as well. Doctors perscribe these meds to regularly and always seem to treat symptoms and not the cause. If they can give a person a pill, and they quit complaining they feel like they have done their job.
I always thought that medication was designed to eleviate a condition. These days once perscribed, it is endless. Forever is a long time. My wife takes celexa daily and I asked the doctor how long the medication will be neccessary and his answer was until my wife decides she doesn't need it. I'm sorry, but how is that practicing medicine? She also perscribed herself with colonopin, lorecet, and several other muscle relaxers. Each time the doc said try this and if you feel better keep taking it. This needs to stop.
In general, the psychiatric "community" will, as a delivery apparatus for the pharma industry ( an ethical and professional CONFLICT OF INTEREST) create and fund "studies" showing a particular demographic group, (VETS in this case but it could and has been foster children, the elderly, school children et al), as being "underrepresented". They then take these "doctored up" studies to a funding source, typically the governments of what ever country they are seeking to "represent" in and obtain state sponsored funding to "treat" those "underrepresented" demographic groups.
And they get it-IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
That is ALL this is about. $$ in pharma pockets delivered by the psychiatric industry
You have no idea what you are talking about. Quacks? Just where do you really think medical advances in treatment come from (Neurology, Trauma/emergency treatment and many more) The military (the Army), that is where. As awful as war is/are/were, many advances do come about by attempting to keep people alive.
My heart goes out to this soldier and his family, tragic accident. Considering the article mentions that he was also taking other meds, some unprescribed, we simply don't know the entire story. I truly empathize with all veterans, after fighting and serving your country, then dealing with substandard medical care and fighting for promised benefits, aside from enduring PTSD and the horrors of combat, I sincerely thank each and every one of you for all that you have given to our country. However, as a mental health worker and someone who also suffers from PTSD, please don't be so quick to hate the meds. I work with 57 mentally ill, substance abusers and formerly homeless folks and these meds often do wonders. I take meds myself, after being attacked twice and left for dead in a ditch, it had taken years for the nightmares and continual falshbacks of absolute horror to subside to a mangable level where I can go to work. I dont claim to know anything about combat or what vets go through, but a good doctor will use small doses of meds in combination with therapy when you are ready for it. This young man being on 1600mg of seroquel, our schitzophrenics arent even on that high of a dose, this doctor is more to blame, if anything. Then there is the gettign strung out on benzo's, klonopin, xanax, valium that works wonders for anxiety but creates addicts out of most of us, myself included. It took a long time to kick Klonopin when you rely on it just to leave your house, add a couple of scotches, paxil and my dishonesty to all my doctors and I set myself up for a lot of problems. Its a vicous cycle and it preys on vulnerable folks. Meds were necessary for me to get my life back, and for many of my clients, many of whom are vets. Talk to each other and get educated about meds, read the interactions and ask your doctor questions! Thats what they get paid for, we are customers with our lives in their hands! Take care, all of you!
I am quite familiar with PTSD and with seroquel. Seroquel AT THE RIGHT DOSES can be very helpful for some people, though the weight gain and related side effects must be considered. Allowing a patient to increase his or her own dose of such a powerful and potentially dangerous med sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Also, these meds do interact with a number of other meds; and a patient needs to know exactly what they are-not just prescription meds. The patient himself or herself has to stay on top of all that; because not all doctors will. Look it up or ask a pharmacist. One source needs to know all meds you are taking, even non-prescription ones. Even cold meds or anything over the counter. Ask the pharmacist if you can take these with your prescription meds before you start taking them. It's vitally important.
It's impossible for a drug manufacturer to test interactions between a number of drugs taken together. You have to stay informed and ask questions.
I am not trying to lay blame or anything. I am sorry for the losses suffered by these families.
though the weight gain and related side effects must be considered.
Obesity and quick on-set debilitating diabetes. The VA "treatment" (with Seroquel and other psychoactive medications) of both active duty and returned Gulf conflict vets is UNCONSCIONABLE.
I just got the results of my son's death. ingestion of seroquil. He was a veteran with PTSD. Legalized murder. The VA psychiatrist said he wasn't a candidate for medication (I read it in his medical records) yet prescribed him six different drugs including seroquil. He was 33 and father of 4 children. Who is going to replace my son and ease my grief.
As long as drug companies pay doctors to study effects the outcome will be the same. The only way to get ay true results is have them tested by people that have nothing to gain. Once again big corporations win and the little man pays the price for greed. I am glad the FDA was able to get some money to ease their collective minds for not doing the right thing yet again. Too bad nobody wants to be proactive.
This is relevant!
This article is not about legalizing Cannabis, it's about using it as a legitimate medicine to ease the needless suffering of millions of people! Thank God! This time it's PTSD. Tomorrow it may be autism or lupus or another. If you don't like it, don't read it!
Kaneh bosm!
Garry Minor
General use of cannabis for PTSD Symptoms
Raphael Mechoulam, Ph.D.
Dr. Mechoulam is the Israeli scientist who identified THC as the psychoactive compound in marijuana, and decades later he discovered the brain's endocannabinoid system and the endogenous neurotransmitter anandamide. He is one of the most respected Israeli neuroscientists and has been a senior advisor to the Israeli government on marijuana policy and the ethics of research with human subjects. He discussed his experiments demonstrating the neuroprotective effects of the endocannabinoid system in mice that have had traumatic injuries to the brain. He believes the neuroprotective effects of marijuana may eventually have applications for other neurological and psychiatric conditions, including Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease.
Another fascinating discovery, one with implications for PTSD, is that the cannabinoid system is integrally related to memory, specifically to memory extinction. Memory extinction is the normal, healthy process of removing associations from stimuli. Dr. Mechoulam explained that an animal which has been administered an electric shock after a certain noise will eventually forget about the shock after the noise appears alone for a few days. Mice without cannabinoid systems simply never forget - they continue to cringe at the noise indefinitely.
This has implications for patients with PTSD, who respond to stimuli that remind them of their initial trauma even when it is no longer appropriate. By aiding in memory extinction, marijuana could help patients reduce their association between stimuli (perhaps loud noises or stress) and the traumatic situations in their past. Working with Army psychiatrists, Dr. Mechoulam has obtained the necessary approvals for a study on PTSD in Israeli veterans, and hopes to begin the study soon.
The Alternative Medical Journal: General use of cannabis for PTSD Symptoms.
Snipped
http://veteransformedicalmarijuana.org/content/general-use-cannabis-ptsd-symptoms
Sorry about the intro, but, it seems that we have some very sensitive readers when it comes to revealing the many medicinal, nutritional, industrial, and Spiritual wonders of this plant! How could you not want to help someone?
Thanks for the very informative post, Garry.
Our society is filled with doctors that prescribe some sort of medication at a moments notice, which contributes to the fact that America has become a pill popping society. Thanks to the pharmaceutical companies we have more prescription pills lying around homes more than at any other time in our history. That being said, people have to take responsibilities for thier own actions. I am not saying that this young man deserved to die, however, he should have been more responsible for his drug interactions. This is tragic for his family and I understand thier concern, I am sure I would feel exactly the same if it were my child that this happened to. I do ask myself, who supplied him with the pain killers?
Ken, I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a moderate amount of higher education, but I don't have the hubris to think I am better qualified to comprehend drug interactions than a doctor. What is a young person without the benefit of a Phd to do when confronted with a medical situation they cannot understand? Turn to the "experts" who pretty much do what the marketing geniuses at big pharma tell them.
Taterwheel- I must say I disagree. I have a slew of medical issues, from chronic pain, depression, PTSD, OCD, and God knows what else! I know more about the interactions of meds than many of my docs. They have PDR on line (physician desk reference) that tells one about the meds. I had a doc prescribe Wellbutrin for depression and Ultram for pain. I knew it was a no-no. Wellbutrin can cause a lower seizure threshold of Ultram. Another doc put me on Clonidine for opiate withdrawal symptoms. Though it is used often, it is usually done INPATIENT because it is a blood pressure medication. My blood pressure dropped out and I wound up passing out, hitting my head, and in the ER. When I go to the doctor's office, I usually know as much about the drugs I am taking, or those they may give me because I've researched endlessly! Seroquel almost got me arrested! I was taking it for depression and one day while shopping, I was getting paranoid and very agitated. I thought I was going to snap! I had to leave the basket and get home. Another trip to my psychiatrist resulted in him talking to me about Pres. Johnson's penis (yes, you read that right)! He handed me some meds that a med salesperson just handed him and left. "Here, take some of these." I have lost nearly all confidence in the medical community. And I feel sorry for those families who have lost loved ones from being prescribed the wrong meds!
RJ-They (the medical "professionals" in general and the psychiatric community at large) have created this sentiment by their blatant shilling and corrupt relationship with drug cos. Your research and efforts to define EXACTLY WHAT they hand to you is WELL PLACED AND HEALTHY.
Here's additional resource's for drug interactions, adverse reactions and negative reports.
Search Adverse Reactions
SSRI Stories
In addition to its dangerous and violent side effects, Seroquel and its maker have been fined in the BILLIONS recently for its failure to disclose data showing a link to obesity, diabetes, and for promoting off label uses. This data was found during clinical approval studies and buried by the drugs maker.
That's a NICE reward for putting their life on the line in battles zones.
#ITSTHETHOUGHTTHATCOUNTS
It's a shame when "semper fi" doesn't go both ways.
Freedom isn't free, and here's on more price tag paid by a Marine!
Let the bashing of drug companies begin. One word of caution: Although I agree that the system needs to change - truly independent drug studies would be a good start - I am reluctant to dub drug companies the big evil of our society. If not for drug companies I would be dead right now, no two ways about it. I lost my thyroid to cancer last year and I am just grateful that there are drug companies that did the research and came up with a thyroid hormone replacement pill and continue to produce them at a reasonable cost. A person cannot live without thyroid hormone and without my daily pill, I'd hav no way to replace what my body is no longer able to make. I'd be dead. So before we start bashing all the drug companies for their greed and demanding lawsuits to bring them to their knees and bankrupt them for some of their less-than-honorable practices -- remember there is still a lot of good that comes from drug companies. There needs to be changes made - better oversight of practices (particularly studies), less involvement between drug companies and doctors, no marketing of prescription drugs directly to consumers, etc - but let's not brand them all as evil, ok? Reform the idustry, just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Nice post Saddened. Hoping that your thyroid problems are totally behind you (except for the need for the meds apparently). You are right, pharma does give us consumers relief from a malady of health issues, and the needs for reform you so eloquently included sound very common sense. It seems no industry is above corruption if left unchecked, no matter the good they also do.
The "standard of care", as instantiated in such services as the VA, which is informed by the biopsychiatric approach to treating PTSD has, at best, met with mixed results. For decades now, there has been considerable debate over whether treatment of combat-related psychiatric conditions be approached as purely medical, or as a psychosocial "condition"(or an admixture of both). To date, the VA seems to maintain its paradigmatic approach in treating soldiers as one would an "organic" disorder.
The VA, as a federal administration, has seen fit to "treat" as it does, not because of the success rates, but more importantly, for that of expediency. The medicalizing of the moral and social, that is the blood letting of battle, the mplications of war, of the toll it takes on the "susceptible" psyche, are just too overwhelming for a system which concerns itself with the status quo. As the liberal psychiatric establishment would have it: Alter the individual and you alter the social. This is exactly what the psychiatrist qua social engineers has effected, certainly the VA system. In effect, psychiatry is our culture's social and political tranquilizer, and, I dare say, medicine does not figure foremost.
seems to me that an important fact is being overlooked. he was taking a drug that was not prescribed. duh!!! maybe that had something to do with his death. needs to be investigated correctly to identify the real cause of death and what was to blame. don't blame the legal prescribed drug until you have all the facts.
Your assertion, at face value, is reasonable enough. However, I don't think it is too far fetched to consider many of the psychotropics as questionably therapeutic. As to date, there is no satisfactory etiology of PTSD. All manner of biopsychiatric model has been proposed, but no one postulation points to a disease marker, and for good reason! PTSD has been around as long as humankind has been warring. The bloodletting that is battle is traumatic and, no doubt, there are those who are more susceptible than others. However, there is no unanimity on the etiology of PTSD. It has been suggested, that it is the very nature of treating PTSD solely as a biological "abnormality", might be the very thing giving rise to the "negative therapeutic outcomes". In short, the trauma that is war does not affect everyone in the same way. And, I would go further and say, that it isn't in the appeal to the purely biological that one stands to address this supposed medically emergent issue.
More importantly, it is the psychosocial state of the individual soldier,and his or her "network" of social support , that seems to hold greater promise of treating an existential issue. Any holism, be it biopsychiatric or not, will fail to take into account the importance of the social matrix in the soldiers life, and the importance that such connectedness lends to any treatment modality.
A 'dr' (many of whom are on payroll by the drug companies to WRITE these prescriptions) ISN'T going to change the chemicals in the drug and the way they react to the body.
Seroquel was KNOWN and FOUND to have detrimental side effects DURING CLINICAL TRIALS. The drug company BURIED these findings so they could obtain approval & there by MAXIMIZE their profit margin.
A recent stat- one company holding patents on 12 drugs made OVER $180 BILLION and was fined $2.3 BILLION for violating federal regulations. QUITE a business plan & profit margin.
Those are the kinds of $$ we are talking about.
Great, I was just put on this medication because I cannot sleep, I have never been able to my whole life. I told them it makes me feel angry, my friends and work partners have dubbed it the "mean pill" and have mentioned I say terrible things that I would never say any other time. I wake up as mad as a wet hornet and I feel worse than having a bad hangover...looks like I need some other drug, been through numerous sleep studies...I have tried them all so far and that is why they put me on this one.
I am no doctor just a vet with my own issues, I use Trazodone for my sleep. I take it for about six months and my sleep time degrades the other six months. I take the scrip dose for a couple of months then take one half the dose for four. I know ninety percent of the time one persons crap is different than anybody elses, I hope your in the ten percentile
Crabdusty,
They gave me generic Ambien at the V.A. However, I have better luck with 2.5 mgs of Valium and two melatonin tabs and try to go to sleep at the same time every night. I try to avoid naps during the day. Sometimes, bad pain wakes me up and I do half a pain pill and go back to bed, but that does not happen often.
Seroquel taken at night as a sleep aid made me into a zombie.
Also 25 mg of benadryl is better than Trazadone. Been there and done that. For PTSD I take 40 mg of Celexa once a day and two 5 mg. Valium tabs. That seems to work the best once you come to terms with "how your PTSD affects you and what you have to avoid."
Good luck,
LTC Rattus, USA, ret.
trazadone was origanally prescribed for anti depression, having found in studies its redeaming qualities in drowsiness, it has been prescribed off label for a long time now for sleep dissorders as i have been prescribed it for same. seriquel is a aweful drug! it does indeed cause anger and in cases people have slept for up to 2 days! as far as these folks dyeing looks like alot was drug interaction, opiate pain meds are the widest abused drug of any and thats including street drugs! problem is they are over prescribed and the dr and hospitals being forced to comply in treating pain simply throw opiates at anyone who hurts! thus for addiction is almost garaunteed when taken longer than 30 days strait. america is addicted.
RoadDog give it some time. I've been on 300mg of seroquel for almost 3 years and as long as I take 2-3 mg of ativan to operate the on/off switch it works great. I know everybody is different but I go to the gym 5 days a week for 2 hours a day, watch and control my food intake and my physical health has never been better since 1972. Prior to dumping the VA and seeing some real docs and getting real treatment I was a walking disaster. My psych doc says it's time to go back and try to deal with the VA again. Maybe they're treating the Vietnam vets different now. Sgt. E-5 67-73
Holy crap! Seroquel is like giving a guy propofol. I can't believe they would give that to soldier under any circumstance! These parents have a right to be enraged.
What a tragedy. I hope that his families of these heroes are able to cope with their losses and not get consumed in the political turmoil and finger pointing that is sure to come from this information going public.
One of the persons in this article said she "trusted the doctors and the drug companies" and now that her son died, she apparently thinks that trust is violated. In some cases this may be accurate; perhaps so in this case, but I don't have the data to judge at this time. However, what people don't realize is that medicine is not a "rocket science". It is still an art in these borders of knowlege like treating PTSD. These doctors and drug companies were probably well meaning. It is just when you're treating massive numbers of people with severe problems in areas where there isn't a lot of research, bad things can and do happen. The only alternative is not treating people.
On the other hand, the government needs to get off their butt and fund some research on PTSD, brain injury, and other research, if it is going to continue to fight massively expensive wars that damage and kill our young people. I'm not against fighting wars, just dumb wars like Iraq that make us take our eye off the Osama Bin Ladin ball. If we could have put all that time and money into Afghanistan initially, we could have come closer to having a successful outcome, but we dithered and now we are paying the price.
Our local VA hires psychologists that also treat PTSD with EMDR. ( www.emdr.com/ ) It is one of a few more psychological methods used to treat PTSD and in conjunction with medications it definitely helps.
I know of one local physician who gave his wife seroquel for her fibromyalgia. This is a painful, but non-fatal muscle pain disease mostly caused by sleeping problems. Thus, for him to give his wife whom he loves this, I would have to presume he thinks this is not something that would kill or harm her. Innocuous, no, helpful yes.
Now the polypharmacy is an issue and is something that makes pharmacists crazy. However, there are now many programs out there that track all the medications a person is on and will alert a doctor if there is a potential problem. However, if not all medications are listed, it is potentially useless, as was possibly the case here.
So, while this makes for good media, it is so typical of the potential medical side effects of practically any medication a person can name - how about tylenol? Very fatal in high doses, but it is over the counter. Thus, while there needs to be responsibility by the doctor, the drug companies, and the patient and their families, we also need to realize that some people will also die from medications.
There is a trade off and we as a society have to come to terms with what this is and if we are willing to accept it. Otherwise, the trial lawyers will just get richer and richer.
Why isn't every veteran given screenings for TBI? I'm not talking about interviews, either, I'm talking about SPECT scans to determine the damage done from concussions they are exposed to.
PTSD is a handy diagnosis to give when the only thing offered is an interview with a psychiatrist and a drug catalogue.
No human is in need of that many chemicals without having an underlying physiologial cause for symptoms.
This young man is, unfortunately, a poster child as it were, for the limits and pervasiveness of drugs, drug marketing and the robotic process of "modern" healthcare.
He is, unfortunately for he and his family, the storm crow of what veteran's families have to look forward to in the days, months and years to come.
So much for "serving" your country.
Ive thought for a couple of years that off label prescribing of Seroquel should be BANNED no matter WHO the psysician is! Psychatrists are very cavalier about prescribing medications!
I've never been in the service but I've had PTSD and I've been on meds for over 12 years. I've been on Seroquel for over 9 years. I take a cocktail of medications to keep myself stable.
There are a number of side effects to all the medications that I take, the psych ones and the ones for other health reasons. Each person has to be aware of the side effects and not take the word of the doctors. You have to do your own research, you have to be aware of what you put in your body.
Yes, I did this when I was at rock bottom because I had adverse reactions to many medications they tried me on when they were trying to get me stable.
The other thing that is important is, each psych needs to listen to the patient, no matter who they are. If you are not feeling right on your meds after a week or so (time for your body to adjust), you shouldn't have to keep taking them. Slurred speech, jerking limbs, joint pain are all indications that there is a problem.
The other thing is: the lowest possible dose should be used in all cases and any increase in dose should be carefully monitored. I called my pdoc many times when things weren't right and told him I was stopping medication because I didn't feel right.
I am sorry that so many have died because of Seroquel or the mixture of medications. This tells me that the pdoc's who are handing out the meds aren't doing their jobs. This means the Federal Government isn't doing their job.
Something needs to be done about this because these young men and woman are fighting for our country and coming home and fighting for their lives. There is no reason for what they are going thru with their medications.
Again, I'm sorry for what all of your are going through and I hope things get better. Stand up for your rights and don't let others dictate what you should and shouldn't put in your body.
"...and decades later he discovered the brain's endocannabinoid system" Now, even the potheads have a theory for ADHD, thanks to the professors work on the endocannabinoid system. As it stands, there is never a clear connection, for example, between the endocannabinoid system, and its link to either PTSD or ADHD. The lacunae between the brain science and the understanding of how drugs work to "treat" mental illness and disorder, is most problematic and, to date, still speculative. It might seem a moot point to ask whether the drugs actually do treat a medical condition, rather than, say, mask or dull affect, but I think that such a distinction needs to be transparently discussed. Obviously, in matters of treatment, the mental health profession has become heavily reliant on some disease model or other. It is this seeming intransigence, in the face of many contradictions and inconsistencies, that the MH profession might be making people truly susceptible. Most "mental illnesses" and emotional trauma do work themselves out, and I cannot find anything to substantiate that drugs are of any long-term benefit, if any at all.
Our military fighting men are not cut out to be cold hearted unremorseful killers. During WW11 our fighting men had a patriotic reason to kill the Japanese, Germans and their allies. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan is not the same as we are fighting within these countries primarily for political reasons and not to protect the U.S. homeland from actual invasion. Its no wonder that our military men come home with emotional problems as they are not cut out to be what they are made and required to be.
I Guess the Drug works no trouble sleeping now money well spent
He's not dead he's sleeping have you checked?after all he was taking a powerful drug to help him sleep This drug works it put them to SLEEP wasn't that the complaint?
A nurse asked the doctor to give Seroquel to my mom on her first day of admission related to respiratory issues. The nurse, who had been caught slapping my mom, thought it would be calming.
We looked it up and told the doctor NOT to give it to her. It is only an ACCIDENT that my brother overheard the conversation and intervened. Otherwise, they woulda had her doped up with it. It can give dementia to people who don't have it, for starters - and she didn't. And the heart and respiratory cautions should get this thing black-boxed.
The nurses had gone to a pizza luncheon where they received pens and notepads (and pizza) from the makers of the drug that week...
EXACTLY! In addition to the diabetes and obesity.
#3
#7.2
The prescribing of multiple HARMaceuticals resulting in serotonin collapse disorder
(as in the case of Heath Ledger) is no mystery!WAKE UP EVERYONE!
This subject really bothers me. Most disturbing is that we medicate soldiers for PTSD and then send them back out on the battlefield. All of these heros should receive a Purple Heart as PTSD is an injury. I can't understand why they don't. The problem with these meds is not just a military problem, but a national problem as well. Doctors perscribe these meds to regularly and always seem to treat symptoms and not the cause. If they can give a person a pill, and they quit complaining they feel like they have done their job.
I always thought that medication was designed to eleviate a condition. These days once perscribed, it is endless. Forever is a long time. My wife takes celexa daily and I asked the doctor how long the medication will be neccessary and his answer was until my wife decides she doesn't need it. I'm sorry, but how is that practicing medicine? She also perscribed herself with colonopin, lorecet, and several other muscle relaxers. Each time the doc said try this and if you feel better keep taking it. This needs to stop.
There's not money in curing.
army doctors are quacks, and someone must be getting kickbacks for prescribing so much of that medication.
In general, the psychiatric "community" will, as a delivery apparatus for the pharma industry ( an ethical and professional CONFLICT OF INTEREST) create and fund "studies" showing a particular demographic group, (VETS in this case but it could and has been foster children, the elderly, school children et al), as being "underrepresented". They then take these "doctored up" studies to a funding source, typically the governments of what ever country they are seeking to "represent" in and obtain state sponsored funding to "treat" those "underrepresented" demographic groups.
And they get it-IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
That is ALL this is about. $$ in pharma pockets delivered by the psychiatric industry
Consumers say big pharma influence on docs is concerning
AstraZeneca On Seroquel Risks: What Diabetes?
Army Suicide Report Ignores Suicide-Causing Drugs
AstraZeneca Settles Seroquel Lawsuits
AstraZeneca On Seroquel Risks: What Diabetes?
You have no idea what you are talking about. Quacks? Just where do you really think medical advances in treatment come from (Neurology, Trauma/emergency treatment and many more) The military (the Army), that is where. As awful as war is/are/were, many advances do come about by attempting to keep people alive.
My heart goes out to this soldier and his family, tragic accident. Considering the article mentions that he was also taking other meds, some unprescribed, we simply don't know the entire story. I truly empathize with all veterans, after fighting and serving your country, then dealing with substandard medical care and fighting for promised benefits, aside from enduring PTSD and the horrors of combat, I sincerely thank each and every one of you for all that you have given to our country. However, as a mental health worker and someone who also suffers from PTSD, please don't be so quick to hate the meds. I work with 57 mentally ill, substance abusers and formerly homeless folks and these meds often do wonders. I take meds myself, after being attacked twice and left for dead in a ditch, it had taken years for the nightmares and continual falshbacks of absolute horror to subside to a mangable level where I can go to work. I dont claim to know anything about combat or what vets go through, but a good doctor will use small doses of meds in combination with therapy when you are ready for it. This young man being on 1600mg of seroquel, our schitzophrenics arent even on that high of a dose, this doctor is more to blame, if anything. Then there is the gettign strung out on benzo's, klonopin, xanax, valium that works wonders for anxiety but creates addicts out of most of us, myself included. It took a long time to kick Klonopin when you rely on it just to leave your house, add a couple of scotches, paxil and my dishonesty to all my doctors and I set myself up for a lot of problems. Its a vicous cycle and it preys on vulnerable folks. Meds were necessary for me to get my life back, and for many of my clients, many of whom are vets. Talk to each other and get educated about meds, read the interactions and ask your doctor questions! Thats what they get paid for, we are customers with our lives in their hands! Take care, all of you!
I am quite familiar with PTSD and with seroquel. Seroquel AT THE RIGHT DOSES can be very helpful for some people, though the weight gain and related side effects must be considered. Allowing a patient to increase his or her own dose of such a powerful and potentially dangerous med sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Also, these meds do interact with a number of other meds; and a patient needs to know exactly what they are-not just prescription meds. The patient himself or herself has to stay on top of all that; because not all doctors will. Look it up or ask a pharmacist. One source needs to know all meds you are taking, even non-prescription ones. Even cold meds or anything over the counter. Ask the pharmacist if you can take these with your prescription meds before you start taking them. It's vitally important.
It's impossible for a drug manufacturer to test interactions between a number of drugs taken together. You have to stay informed and ask questions.
I am not trying to lay blame or anything. I am sorry for the losses suffered by these families.
Obesity and quick on-set debilitating diabetes. The VA "treatment" (with Seroquel and other psychoactive medications) of both active duty and returned Gulf conflict vets is UNCONSCIONABLE.
The Forgotten Wounded of Iraq by Ron Kovic
I just got the results of my son's death. ingestion of seroquil. He was a veteran with PTSD. Legalized murder. The VA psychiatrist said he wasn't a candidate for medication (I read it in his medical records) yet prescribed him six different drugs including seroquil. He was 33 and father of 4 children. Who is going to replace my son and ease my grief.