WalkWithMeInHell

Having a Child whose mild Autism was sparked EXACTLY when she received the suspect Vaccines, I can 100% attest to there being a "vaccine connection"; my child was progressing "normally", but within a few months after the shots she began suddenly and drastically "regressing".

----------------------------------

I feel for you with the problems you are encountering with your child and yourself. I can't imagine how I would feel should I be in your place.

Please be certain that you are using scientific methods to determine the causes of these problems. Antecdotal evidence (vaccine + months later = developmental problems) isn't always right. I understand your desire to find the answer - to find the cause and prevent it. I would be working hard to find the answers too. Just please, don't let emotions take over your reasoning and fall into the trap of 'sounds good junk science' and emotional responses (aka the 'that doesn't agree with my opinion so therefore it's can't possibly be true).

There's lots of actual science out there (governmental and otherwise) that shows no connection between autism and vaccines or the mercury/themerisol/preservatives in them. However, there's lots of scientific sounding information out there that tries to tie them together. Most of that scientific sounding information is not science at all. It's emotional opinions masked behind a facade of false science. Even the original study that did create the link has been thrown out because of the gross negligence and failure to follow basic scientific process by the scientist that did the study.

The reason that scientific process has stood the test of time is that scientific process works. When we abandon scientific process for the sake of finding answers that fit our personal beliefs, the truth and finding actual cures go out the window. In fact, often when scientific process is abandoned for 'I believe it, so it's true' in the medical world, people die. We used to call this quackery. Now all too often it's lumped in with what's called 'alternative medicine' instead.

I don't want you to abandon your quest for the truth - just be cautious. Many people believe in 'thier' cure so much that they become zealots for it - and loose touch with the truth.

I don't want you to abandon your quest for the truth - just be cautious

Sounds like you abandoned yours a long time ago. Must have been the military hazing.

Robert

Man writes a reasonable, thoughtful & respectful response and this snide bs is the best you can come up with?

What a jerk.

Hartvig - Robert is a perfect example of what is dragging our society down. Some people completely lack brains and those are usually the types that over-utilize their freedom of speech, unfortunately.

Man writes a reasonable, thoughtful & respectful response and this snide bs is the best you can come up with?

It's a condescending disrespectful post. He may write an empathetic word but he's basically telling the guy/girl that s/he's not scientifically literate and is falling prey to emotions and pseudoscience.

It couldn't possibly be that s/he or child actually was injured by a barrage of vaccines.

It's the same old same old. "I'm smart you're stupid argument" surrounded by "i feel for you" and "keeping looking for the truth , though"

Walk with me in Hell- I hope your screen name does not reflect your feelings towards your daughter.... I am a mother of a son who has Aspergers plus much more which ends up with 13 doctors. I will not say that my life is hell... I am grateful that he is my son ,has made significant strides but the journey is far from over. I don't blame vaccines, mercury etc, genetics can be a factor plus combined with environmental factors. I have an identical twin with a son with Aspergers, we have a cousin with Aspergers and have been told that many of our great uncles fit the profile looking back thru family, historically..... my family has been on an island since 16oo's and still live there.The researchers still dont have the full picture yet. Remember Asp/ Autism was diagnosed 50 years but the research remained dormant for a long time.... Hopefully an answer will be found.

I know that the road we parents travel with children on the spectrum is long and sometimes hard just think there are families who reject and neglect their children esp if they have disabilities.

I hope you will find some peace and hope!

Mercury in vaccines not linked to autism, new study finds

Thou dost protest too much methinks.

Just to play devils advocate...but if we didnt have vaccines you would be a whole lot worse off than "chronic fatigue"....do a quick google search on all the diseases we've essentially wiped out...I would look it up myself but I dont need to got mine vaccines and plan to make sure my kid(s) are too

.but if we didnt have vaccines you would be a whole lot worse off than "chronic fatigue"

There is no way to conclusively make that statement for any one individual. It is pure speculation.

.I would look it up myself but I dont need to got mine vaccines and plan to make sure my kid(s) are too

I looked it up for you. Most diseases were on the wane before vaccines came into play. Therefor there must be other factors besides vaccines for the precipitous fall.

"United States Disease Death Rates"

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2654:united-states-disease-death-rates&catid=55:united-states-deaths-from-diseases&Itemid=55

Aswiftmom:

I think Walking in Hell was most likely referring to the endless array of health problems plaguing him/her since receiving vaccines. Although I wouldn't say dealing with personal illness and a child with a disability is a walk in the park.

Having a Child whose mild Autism was sparked EXACTLY when she received the suspect Vaccines, I can 100% attest to there being a "vaccine connection"; my child was progressing "normally", but within a few months after the shots she began suddenly and drastically "regressing".

I wouldn't describe symptoms appearing months later to be sparked exactly. To me immediate effects would take place within days, maybe weeks at the most.

I have two boys with autism and I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I don't waste any time worrying that the cause might be vaccines. I would like to see more research into genetics.

I would like to see more research into genetics.

Genetics is a red herring. There cannot be a genetic epidemic. Do they play a part? Sure, they play a part in a lot of diseases.

Epigenetic factors are more likely.

Mostly the rise in Autism has to do with better diagnostic tools and wider definitions of the disease not with an actual increase of what was diagnosed in the 70's and 80's. If we compare numbers with the old definition they are practically stable.

Generally speaking, humans have a hard time accepting responsibility for their own decisions, genetics or otherwise and choose to seek out a physical source to direct their distress. It's natural and a deep part of nature to hide your own genetic disorders. Autism could be linked to anything in this world. Maybe preservatives, pesticides, pollution, genetics,..... Unfortunately people have decided to target vaccines. Hell, they even have some famous spokespeople screaming about it, so it must be true. Plus... after all this fuss, how could they just lay down their arms and say: "hey, we were wrong"...

I agree that it is now time to move forward with the research needed by all parents and families to find the truth or truths about the Autism Spectrum. With stem cell research re-emerging after 8 long years, Let's push the government, the scientists, education and physicians to push this to the front of this issue. If we can not get this ball rolling then the next generations will still be fighting for answers and our grown children will still find it difficult to live independently , pay taxes etc. My son is 17 and I know the answers are not availble yet, he is running out of time despite all our attempts.

"Mercury should not be in vaccines in anyquantity?" Why?

ALL poisons are dose dependent. Even water has an LD50.

Water is not mercury.

Yes, of course, dose makes the poison; but water is not mercury. What a ridiculous comparison.

Thimerosal is 49% ethyl mercury. Ethyl mercury, like all organic mercury compounds, is a neurodevelopmental toxicant.

Comparing water to Hg is ridiculous.

ALL poisons are dose dependent.

All people are variables. One person can snort massive amounts of cocaine for years while one can snort a little one time and die.

Poisons are not very nutritious to the body.

I wouldn't recommend them. Especially to a 3 day old.

Yes water is not mercury, but all poisons are dose dependent.

Even though "Thimerosal is 49% ethyl mercury. Ethyl mercury, like all organic mercury compounds, is a neurodevelopmental toxicant."

The comparison between water and mercury is not ridiculous, John, your thinking is just not broad. The comparison is apt because there is a level at which Thimerosal is safe, just like there is a level at which water is unsafe.

To state that "Poisons are not very nutritious to the body." misses the point: nutritive materials can also be poisons, again, it is all dose dependent.

Water is necessary for life. Mercury isn't. Mercury is poison and stays in the tissues in the body to do damage. Injecting unsuspecting people with mercury, both children and adults, is absolutely insane. All they have to do is use the one dose, not multi-dose, vaccines and the problem is solved. Must be more costly that way. The public needs to be kept informed about these vaccines and insist safer forms are used. Without pressure from the public, nothing will change.

you can die from drinking too much water, was the point. It is all dose dependant.

Some things just shouldn't be ingested or injected, period. The idea of injecting mercury into people must have been the product of mad scientists or the mercury industry. I'm sure they could come up with a better way if they tried.

you can die from drinking too much water, was the point. It is all dose dependant.

So what dose did Hannah Polling take? What dose did Bailey Banks take?

Because you are medically trained? Because you are able to perform a broad spectrum of diagnostic tests yourself and interpret the results in an objective manner? I am sorry to hear you are struggling with autism in your son, but so many parents are accepting the hysterical junk science out there and are mistaking correlation with causation (just because two things happened at the same time doesn't mean they are connected, e.g. an airplane just went down in Venezuela at the same time someone in Caracas sneezed - one didn't cause the other). Parents of autistic kids are desperately seeking some explanation or scapegoat for what happened to them - it's unfortunate they've latched onto something that is a fundamental component of public health.

Because you are medically trained? Because you are able to perform a broad spectrum of diagnostic tests yourself and interpret the results in an objective manner?

Hannah Poling's dad is a medical doctor in neurology with a PhD. That line wouldn't work with him.

just because two things happened at the same time doesn't mean they are connected,

Who are you to say that it DIDN't happen in this case? Would you tell Jon Poling MD, Phd that? His daughter was finally awarded $1.5 million in what should have been a slam dunk case. But because this involves the "baby" of public health her highly educated parents were drug through the mud. What chance does a less publicized case have with vaccine damage?

Please see post 1.1

There is a big difference between anecdotal "evidence" and rsearch results.

please know that epidemiology does not apply to any single individual.

I wasn't talking about the Poling case, but since you bring it up... IIRC, they concluded that the vaccine may have aggravated an undetected rare mitochondrial disorder she had, it was not the direct cause. The bigger point is that although vaccines are safe for almost everyone, nobody is saying vaccines are absolutely 100% effective without any side effects for everyone, no medication on this planet is. The Poling case was a rare outcome. But the opposing alternative of not vaccinating anyone would result in millions and millions of unnecessary deaths. I hope this is not what you are advocating.

KPern. Right there with you. Lost my son to autism at 18 mts the day he had his 18 mts recommended vaccinations. I feel your pain and anguish. Frusteration too. It seems that they would close a well travelled interstate highway down to investigate a accident, but here, when parent after parent reports side effects, all they do is come up with the 'perhaps he caught something at the office' excuse. Or if they do decide to do something after parents go the extra mile to do the end-around, they sit in their labs trying to smash 2 match box cars together to reconstruct the scene.

Just know that your not alone.

But the opposing alternative of not vaccinating anyone would result in millions and millions of unnecessary deaths. I hope this is not what you are advocating.

I would hope you could reference that. Where does this BELIEF come from? The CDC says that it saves 33,000 per year. How did you get millions and millions?

Vaccination should be a choice.

Millions globally.

"Vaccination should be a choice" No, it shouldn't. No way I'm letting your (or any other anti-vac parent's) kid infect my kid with something that was easily preventable. You don't want to vaccinate? Fine, then keep them quarantined until they are 18.

Millions globally.

You assume the population is homogenous. It is not.

"Vaccination should be a choice" No, it shouldn't. No way I'm letting your (or any other anti-vac parent's) kid infect my kid with something that was easily preventable. You don't want to vaccinate? Fine, then keep them quarantined until they are 18.

YOUR vaccine should protect YOUR kid. Either you haven't thought of this or you don't have faith in YOUR vaccine. If your faith is a little weak then you an have my intended vaccine and double up but don't force your medical mandate on my family.Case closed. If your scared of disease then you should quarantine your child until they are 18. BTW my kid is not contagious. You have to have an infection first. Details.

a tuna sandwich is more dangerous and of course it is not dangerous either if you dont eat it every single day.

I don't eat tuna too often. Of course you should only have your mercury amalgrams in your mouth no more than 2 times per week. A little mercury is good for the brain.

The bottom line is that family should have never had to go through courts to get the money. If what pro-vaccine people say is true--that vaccines are not 100% safe, in that some will have a severe reaction-- then the family should have received due compensation without all the fanfare. Admit vaccines can screw up some kids and compensate the families and be done with it.

i could have told you this. i am autistic and i predate these shots. people grasp at any excuse to blame for things.

This seems to be a new trend. Newly diagnosed aspies saying "Hey I'm autistic it didn't have anything to do with vaccines" therefore vaccines are safe.

The autistic spectrum is very very wide.

All of autism is not caused by vaccines.

All vaccines don't cause autism.

Vaccines CAN cause autism.

Robert: "Vaccines CAN cause autism"? Where are the scientifically-based medical studies that prove this link? Parents of autistic kids blamed thimerisol for years, but now it's gone and autism diagnoses continue to rise. How to explain that?

ANOTHER AUTISM CASE WINS IN VACCINE COURT

The Court found that Bailey's ADEM was both caused-in-fact and proximately caused by his vaccination. It is well-understood that the vaccination at issue can cause ADEM, and the Court found, based upon a full reading and hearing of the pertinent facts in this case, that it did actually cause the ADEM. Furthermore, Bailey's ADEM was severe enough to cause lasting, residual damage, and retarded his developmental progress, which fits under the generalized heading of Pervasive Developmental Delay, or PDD [an autism spectrum disorder]. The Court found that Bailey would not have suffered this delay but for the administration of the MMR vaccine, and that this chain of causation was... a proximate sequence of cause and effect leading inexorably from vaccination to Pervasive Developmental Delay.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

Courts have sentenced innocent people to death too. Not much of a scientific recommendation.

The greek scoffs.

What type of message does that send to parents? That they really have no protection from this mass vaccinating system. When the court finds that a vaccines permanently injures someone, the mass vaccinators, policy makers, and medical authorities scoff at the decision.

Courts have sentenced innocent people to death too. Not much of a scientific recommendation.

When a vaccine kills someone is that a scientific recommendation?

Robert,

Aspies are those with asperger's, just one point on the autism spectrum. Not all kids with autism have aspergers. This person stated they had autism not aspergers. The two terms are NOT interchangable.

As the parent of both a child with asperger's and one with autism there IS a difference.

And for the record my child with full autism was born after the thimeresol (sp?)was removed from the vaccines. There may be something to the side note to this study that thimeresol actually reduced the incidence of autism based on my personal results.

Aspies are those with asperger's, just one point on the autism spectrum. Not all kids with autism have aspergers. This person stated they had autism not aspergers. The two terms are NOT interchangable.

All kids with asperger's are on the spectrum of autistic disorders.

But not all people with Autism have asperger's.

I'll wager my keyboard that the person writing is an aspie newly diagnosed.

Robert I'd wager that you dont have any family members diagnosed with EITHER as you fail to actually grasp the difference between the two medical terms.

For the record if you read my previous post you would know its one of my children that has aspergers and the other has autism. Unfortunately I know the difference between the two terms as I live with it each day. Where shall I pick up my new keyboard ?

Is rickmarc your son?

I wasn't questioning if you know the difference between autism and aspergers and the spectrum of autistic disorders. So no you don't get a keyboard just yet. I'll keep typing.

Rickmarc: i am autistic and i predate these shots.

And they're have been aspies, not this one, using this line of reasoning lately. I know a few aspies. It's not even close to the same as regressive autism.

Read the article: vaccines show no statistical link. We all have Atrazine in out blood. You can't get any processed food without cornstarch or corn sugar in it. We all have bpa in our blood (it's in the lining of all cans). Most of us have triclorsan in our blood (it's in all the antibacterial crap they sell us). The list goes on. Many people intentionally introduce VOCs in their homes (air fresheners). There's a lot of other stuff to look at.

Exactly, and time wasted having to prove over and over again to the Jenny McCarthy crowd that vaccines aren't the cause takes away from research into treatment, cause and even accurate diagnosis of ASD. We know the problem, lets work for a solution and once we have a solution we can work on finding the cause. Studies have proven that early and aggressive treatment provides the best outcomes so lets work on finding the best early treatment. Lets work on the way to best diagnosis this preferably at birth and lets work on finding a way to cure this.

The blame game doesnt help any of our children affected by this now.

The sad part is because scientist have to keep disproving this over and over and over again they are not looking for the real cause

Got news for you. The same scientist designing papers for vaccine compliance are not the same ones looking for cures...for anything.

That argument is bunk.

Then prove it...I have seen a million studies showing that vaccines do not CAUSE Autism! On the other side I see rightfully upset parents looking for something to blame! Try genetics!!!!

Then prove it...I have seen a million studies showing that vaccines do not CAUSE Autism! On the other side I see rightfully upset parents looking for something to blame! Try genetics!!!!

After you prove you've seen a "million studies". That's called hyperbole

What you fail to understand is that NONE of the studies show that "vaccines do not cause autism". What the studies do is show is a failure to show cause. Vaccine have in fact been shown to cause autism in some individuals.

There is no such thing as a genetic epidemic. The only argument that you could make is that autism is NOT an epidemic and the diagnosis is wrong or previous rates were massively inaccurate or something along those lines. Rates cannot rise because of genetics.

actually with the increase in both a) older fathers and b) reproductive assistance there really is a reason for genetics to play a role in the increase.

do we also see a similar rise in chromosomal disorders such as down's syndrome? I don't believe so.

Genetics can play a role but they are not the cause. Saying a gene is involved is not enlightening. It's like saying leaking holes are involved in flat tires. What caused the tire to go flat? If one answers the leaking hole then it doesn't say very much.

Genetic changes do not happen over a few decades. They happen over thousands of years. Epigenetic changes can happen over a single generation. Epigenetic changes involve the environmental status of the cell.

Genenut...it is obvious that no matter what scientists and researchers show these people they will continue to blame vaccines..it is just an easy out...someone to point the finger at!

Hopefully, there are some scientist probing forward to come up with the true cause for those of us reasonable enough to want to know, cause I for one would really like to know what caused my sons ailments and I saw no changes during vaccines at all.

Being Military brat born in Germany I had 18 shots in a 2 week period just to come to the US, so the 4 kids get at one time aint nothing! As for you against vaccines, I hope and pray your kids will be ok, one of my friends just lost her 16 month old son due to Chickenpox, she is devastated, but I have a hard time having a lot of sympathy cause she could have prevented it, but because another friend of hers filled her head with crap she lost her child!

Genenut...it is obvious that no matter what scientists and researchers show these people they will continue to blame vaccines..it is just an easy out...someone to point the finger at!

Until the health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated is done then yes. Until then you can keep waiving your hands.

Hopefully, there are some scientist probing forward to come up with the true cause for those of us reasonable enough to want to know, cause I for one would really like to know what caused my sons ailments and I saw no changes during vaccines at all.

That is called confirmation bias. At the same time there are plenty parents who did see changes.

Being Military brat born in Germany I had 18 shots in a 2 week period just to come to the US, so the 4 kids get at one time aint nothing!

Maybe that should be looked into!

As for you against vaccines, I hope and pray your kids will be ok, one of my friends just lost her 16 month old son due to Chickenpox,

That is terrible. Lightening kills more people than chickenpox every year. You're one of the only people in the U.S. who even knows someone who died from chickenpox. Keep that in perspective.

she is devastated, but I have a hard time having a lot of sympathy cause she could have prevented it, but because another friend of hers filled her head with crap she lost her child!

What is more terrible is you not having sympathy for your friend because of you sitting on your vaccine high horse. The chickenpox vaccine has an effectiveness of 44%. And of those people who do die ( which is extremely extremely rare) some of them ARE vaccinated. You have no idea if vaccinating would make a difference. It's speculation and faith in the prophecy of a vaccine.

Robert there are tests that are done as early as 12 weeks for Downs. Maybe the lack of increase in the downs rate is due to testing and unfortunately, the termination of those pregnancies that are determined to be afflicted with downs. In addition downs is not a genetic disorder. It is an abnormality that happens in the egg or sperm. People do not carry genes for Downs syndrome.

There does not at the moment exist a definitive test for autism before birth so termination is not an option.

But the advent of reproductive assistance technology allows people who normally would not have had children to do so and there may be a link to less than perfect genes/eggs being successfully fertilized and brought to term along with older eggs/sperm being used.

But the advent of reproductive assistance technology allows people who normally would not have had children to do so and there may be a link to less than perfect genes/eggs being successfully fertilized and brought to term along with older eggs/sperm being used.

That could easily be shown with a study. But that is not the case. Also, Most less than perfect embryos will be aborted by the body.

actually with the increase in both a) older fathers and b) reproductive assistance there really is a reason for genetics to play a role in the increase.

So what genes change from when the man is younger to when he becomes older? They don't. Every cell in the body carries the same genes.

BS, Robert. The chicken pox (varicella) vaccine has been found to be 70-90% effective at preventing regular chicken pox, not 44%. Makes me suspicious of any other figures you spout.

American Academy of Pediatrics:

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;105/1/136

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/422041

Since licensure in the United States, studies have shown that varicella vaccine’s overall effectiveness ranges from 44% to 100%, with substantial protection against moderate and severe varicella; however, breakthrough illness has been documented in up to 56% of vaccinated individuals.

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/12477940

The effectiveness of the vaccine was 44.0 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 6.9 to 66.3 percent) against disease of any severity and 86.0 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 38.7 to 96.8 percent) against moderate or severe disease. Children who had been vaccinated three years or more before the outbreak were at greater risk for vaccine failure than those who had been vaccinated more recently (relative risk, 2.6 [95 percent confidence interval, 1.3 to 5.3]). CONCLUSIONS: In this outbreak, vaccination provided poor protection against varicella...

speculation as to a cause without any scentific study/backing doesnt help the children here and now.

Focus your energy in a more productive direction and help the children that are here now with autism.

I suggest you read the linked article post from April.

And I suggest you put your energy to something that will do far more good in the long run than playing the blame game.

How many children with autism have you helped or supported today?

And I suggest you put your energy to something that will do far more good in the long run than playing the blame game.

I am.

How many children with autism have you helped or supported today?

None. So far but its still early.