The worst ones cost society $22,000 a year in health care, lost productivity
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comNeurotic people are not just unhappy, they're expensive
Seeded on Tue Oct 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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Unfortunately, in our American society, there's a negative stigma against seeking or getting mental health treatment. If you do, you stand to be singled out, avoided, excluded, mocked, even reviled.
Mental health is one of many interpersonal and social essentials in this technological day and age, a humanizing venue of identification, counseling and treatment services that offers personal checks and balances, and offers personal growth and self-improvement options in our lives -- which are unfortunately, considered by many political conservatives as "non-essential" programs or a budget than needs no attention nor support from anyone.
The impact that maladaptive behaviors has on our economy in the cost of health care and lost productivity adds up fast. That, and if left untreated, can result in needless, terrible, single to multiple-victim tragedies that make the front page news.
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“The unexamined life is not worth living” - Socrates
Rradiko, I agree with you that mental health needs are largely ignored in this country and should not be ignored. But I totally disagree with your statement about many political conservatives thinking these programs are non essential. In NC, a democrat controlled state, our leaders have been the ones to drastically cut the budgets for our Department of Health and Human Resources. I am a Republican and conservative and find their actions appalling.
raleigh d - During the Bush administration in NC and many other states, many mental health and geriatric services were privatized and now they all are based on profit, not treatment. Get your "facts" straight!
Politicizing the issue validates the article.
Anindividual, most in NC are not privatized -- get your facts straight.
raleigh - when tax revenues fall because jobs are lost, that is exactly what happens - tough cuts are made. i've watched here in michigan over the last decade, tough cuts all along the line...and education has been hit really really hard. so many manufacturing jobs in michigan have fled to mexico, china or cheaper southern states...no jobs, equals crappy tax base = very little to address the problems that exist.
and of course, according to republicans, its our democratic governors fault that all these companies chose to leave our state because they couldnt get free handouts to keep their business there. so then our governor tries to lure business to stay, or new business to come here with essentially waiving their tax liabilities...and wouldnt you know it, thats not really the reason they wanted to leave at all anyway...they just dont want to pay workers very much.
this is our new reality, the haves and the rest of us.
Quick Hit – While I was suppose to be working……………
@Jessica – now that the full impact on our form of Democratic government will change with the implementation of the “Citizens United” political contributions decision of the Supreme Court I can only expect matters to worsen and what we once recognized as
America has possibly changed forever. We are quickly morphogening into some sort of have and have not nation and a country ruled by a power elite in partnership with foreign interests. We can draw up various scenarios, which only makes me more depressed than before the planning for the future.
The “austerity” programs are being drawn up as we speak, when Congress will deal with these settle on the means to stabilize and reduce the deficit has already begun. I will try and find the time to research the recommendations of the committee formed for the purpose of forming a plan that will stabilize and even over time reduce the interest on the Federal interest on our debt. How this will be accomplished we are debating now. Only one example of the of ideas is to boost the full retirement age to 70 years of age, early draw of Social Security would be at 67 years. I repeat is being debated but the 70 age requirement looks as though it may fly the early retirement could be 68 and 67 years, issues to push back to 67 years after a couple of decades. No public service retirement until age of 65 but that may just be drawn up to reflect that of the private sector.
This is only one major issue there are other significant measures that will have a direct financial impact on all Americans that will come to pass sooner than later. I should stop my post but I have to mention the rising of co-pay for Medicare health plans and the prescription medications. If this is not a death panel than what is? Medicaid will be greatly diminished of course and the means testing and how to configure this aspect is a work in progress.
Means testing should that include, for example, if you own a home or not and could that home be borrowed on to pay for various benefits and thus exclude you from benefits that are not means tested today. I could go on my escape to the Net while waiting for paper work to be sent to me has come and gone, I was able to sneak away to the Vine and make a post.
You are correct about the business practice of laying off people then rehiring replacements at a lower wage rate, at this time this practice seems to be very much in vogue, among other unsavory practices. Many changes for future generations of Americans and whom will pay for the Bush years and the remedy for the near second Great Depression. Along with the ongoing restructuring of American society. Someone will have to pay and it seems it will the middle class.
As fireman stood around and watched a man’s house burn down yesterday for a lack of payment ($75) fee you can expect that there won’t even be a fire truck to come to your home when the real serious measures take hold to deal with our payment of our national debt. I think our state (CA) passed a budget yesterday that was $19 Billion in the red, we will borrow the money to meet the outlays of money in the budget. I could be wrong but I am sure that is what I heard on the car radio but maybe I misheard. I will check this out later. Speaking of later, I am out of here………..Later
Our current trend in the treatment of mental illness/substance dependence is to instantly prescribe antidepressants, mood stabilizers, and anti-psychotics, as well as the ever popular benzodiazepine medications. It makes more sense to initially attempt CBT or another acceptable theory to at least see how the patient will respond before totally changing their brain chemistry and then having to sift through the sometimes significant side effects. It troubles me that physicians often prescribe these medications on the first day of contact with the patient after only minutes of contact. More often than not, benzodiazepines are prescribed to alcoholics/ addicts without question and this is contributing to a huge problem. But, I understand that the love of money is quite strong and outweighs common sense.
With profits more important that the patients, more Rx's are written for the symptoms of all medical conditions rather than treating the root causes which take more time and patience and more knowledge. If our schools are bad, then the foundation for medical educations is bad. The Medical Industry in the USA makes money when more 'scripts are written for symptoms and subsequently the side effects of those medications. Root causes of conditions are not even considered, discovered or treated.
America is caught up in symptoms rather than causes in every aspect of daily life.
Western Medicine is SICK CARE, not health care. There's a reason they rarely seek the "root problem" and treat that, and rather only focus on the symptoms and treat them for the rest of your life. There's more money to be made that way.
Of course, it's entirely possible that western medicine is reflecting the patients attitude towards their own health care.
How many people opt for losing weight to lose their diabetes - rather than taking meds for the rest of their life to regulate it?
Medicine is a business - just like any other business. What's the incentive to actually CURE something? Then you never come back... and repeat business IS business!!! Unfortunately (and I've even had this confirmed to me from medical professionals) more and more they are turning to a "pay per patient) style within the medical system. The more patients you see per day, the more you will be paid. So why would you CURE anything if that means you'll have fewer patients to see? where is your incentive to help?
I am very lucky that I found a nurse practitioner as my primary care, and she still does a good job.. and there have been times that she's run late with another patient and kept me waiting quite a while....... and apologized profusely when she finally got to see me. The only response I could give her was "Don't apologize, Doc. The fact that you took the time to see them just tells me that hopefully when I need you to, you'll take that extra time for me also." and I wish more docs were the same way... MD, nurse pract, etc..........
Consider the roots of why people become neurotic and you see that it's not entirely the fault of the neurotic individual. The familial, cultural, environmental, interrelational, mental and a varitety of other factors lend a hand in how some learn to respond to life. If they want to save billions, find ways to raise people who don't have so many hangups and have a happier society.
Not to mention that the article states it is genetic and therefore, inherited. The affected individual has no control over that aspect of their lives. And not all doctors start with drugs I have had doctors use bio feedback and I could bury the needle in his office but out on the street when the worry and anxiety hit bio feedback was out the window.
Too many people rear their children "like I was raised" rather than improve upon child rearing because it takes effort, patience, and dedication. When people have "trophy" children as extensions of themselves or fail to heed responsible birth control advice (rather than just say no), inept people become parents and the children suffer. Too many people turn their heads away when they know children are not being taught or treated as growing human beings. Too many parents are unaware of the stages of development in their children's lives. We have robbed our children of their childhoods and healthy ones are rare!
Mental abuse in the home is one of the most hidden aspects of American society and has been for generations! Children need safe and healthy environments to grow into healthy adults.
I dont buy genetics (until they find genes that they can turn on and off) but I do buy the reality that parents pass on traits to their children via learned behaviour. Our habits become ingrained to the point that most dont even want to try to change those habits, it's too difficult to overcome - or rather, requires too much effort to work on.
The older I get, the more I realize that i've got a lot of my mom's habits...but you know what else, i've also got a lot of my dad's habits, but my dad isnt my biological dad, so...how did I get his traits? Because I grew up watching his behaviour and without even trying, I evolved to become similar to him in a variety of ways, just as I have my mom.
I've also changed some habits because of living with my partner for 11 + years...i've become a calmer person because of her - simply because she's quick to freak out about things, it gives me a perspective of "ok, is this a rational response?"...im not sure i'd be this same type of person in frustrating situations, but my dad is just like this...so i assume I learned to be like this from him.
I believe any bad habit/behaviour/reaction can be unlearned if someone really wants to change how they are. I just dont think most people want to change, I think most people see themselves as perfectly fine...or that their dysfunction has no affect on the world around them, or at the very least they may want to change just not want to go through the effort.
Medication works, it's a simple mask of the problem...but it's an expensive solution
My thoughts exactly. We are blank slates when we come into this world. Experiences with the world both positive and negative make who we are.
Love,
Hal9000
Neurotic Misanthrope
I could not agree more with your comment. My husband was a happy and normal child until his 1 year old brother drowned in the family pool when he was about 5. His family never sought grief counseling and his father dealt with the death by becoming an alcoholic and starting beating my husband for the littlest infractions. It's no wonder than my husband has anxiety. He has done remarkably well despite growing up under those conditions, but in order to try to move on with his life he has become distant to his parents. He can't bring himself to say I love you on the phone anymore to them. It's really sad and the worst part is they can't see what they did was wrong. I think if they would just say they were sorry then I think everyone could begin to heal and reconcile.
Children have so much potential when they start out in the world. Parents and a whole host of other factors can really mess that up.
" . . . in order to try to move on with his life he has become distant to his parents. He can't bring himself to say I love you on the phone anymore to them."
He is honest. Nothing like a huge dose of childhood physical and emotional abuse to create intolerance for hypocrisy. He lived in pain and fear for many years. He was damaged.
Do not expect an acknowledgment of wrong doing, let alone an apology from his parents. His mother--and other family members who knew--allowed the abuse to persist.
A child psychiatrist whom I respect once stated that under such circumstances, it is healthy to flee.
Your husband needs support to keep on preserving his 'sanity.' That means you, his wife, should not be expecting or pushing for a magical transformation into a happy family. Instead, encourage him to seek counseling and stick with it. Attend any Al-Anon meeting and you will hear the newcomers tell their stories of dashed expectations and broken dreams. Al-Anon can help your husband, as can talk therapy.
Man, seem like I am kind of neurotic, sometimes my mood changes. I think we should look to help people who need help rather than say these people cost society burden.
Oh, Great! Another thing for the neurotics to freak over. Thanks again, scientists and actuarials.
It's not just neurotics. People with sociopathic symptoms cause as many, if not more, problems.
Come on, it's an inherent risk of being human
Okay, so neurotic people cost more..... What causes it? One could point to Freud, who claims "The more intelligent man becomes, the more neurotic he becomes"
Could it be society is some of the cause, with the pressures, the gridlock, and yes - the Malarkey that pervades many work places.
This article sounded like a bunch of Wanesian acturialism which leans dangerously close to sounding like Mein Kampf. The averages are also a lie as they lump the entire test lot into a single category and blot out individual results.
I really want to know if the person(s) who did this study is a secret Admirer of Reinhard Hyedrich, Josef Goebbels, and Leni Riefenstahl......
We all know your 'tests' can create any result 'you' want to find. So keep on conducting them and prove whatever makes you feel important.
Now were talking about how people "COST" society?!?
The concern over what various disease states cost society is nothing new. Where have you been that you haven't noticed until today?
The cost of obesity probably significantly outweights (pun intended) neurotics...most everything has a cost bryje, why shouldnt we talk about it?
Think of it from this perspective - let's say it's thousands of years ago, and you live in a little hamlet of say 20 people...and one becomes horribly sick. Suddenly, a second person becomes horribly sick. Then the first person dies.
Do you keep everyone together, taking care of the sick people...or do you make the decision to kick the sick person out, and hope that no one else gets sick too?
It's not an easy decision...and while have more choices than people of the past had, we dont have an infinite amount of options. Take cancer for example - I strongly believe we are going to bankrupt ourselves trying to save people who cant be saved from cancer, simply because we arent capable of letting go and accepting that somethings cant be fixed, some lives cant be saved. Women are choosing to cut off their breasts, do reconstructive surgery, because they've got the gene associated with breast cancer. There's no evidence this works, yet women are making this choice...while doctors say out of one side of their mouth "it reduces your chance for cancer down to practically zero"...then out the other side "there's no guarantee you wont get cancer".
This practice hasnt been going on long enough for any medical professional to say with a straigth face that it reduces your chance down to practically zero.
Capitalism is really just about inventing jobs - regardless of need. Head doctors need patients too - at least when you go to the head doctor, you get to talk about your favorite subject - yourself.
Research is always "interesting" at one point homosexuality was claimed as a mental disorder until taken out of that classification in the 1970's. And lets take a deep breathe and give medical research and data a big round of applause as continually breakthrough medications designed by leading specialists are taken off the market after a few years of government approval as the side effects and drugs themselves prove hazardous, typically leading to law suit and class actions.
I'm glad I'm not neurotic.
You and me both.
Ha! That's a good one cheetah! LMAO!
Wait...are you talking about me?
Err? Their cost to society based on a personality questionnaire, and the days they missed from work, and their medical costs?
Was it ever considered that their medical problems could be the SOURCE of their so-called neuroticism? Or are their medical costs forpsychiatric treatment the only ones cited?
Can you really consider missing days at work to be a COST to society?
Is it really a COST TO SOCIETY if they are earning that money, and paying it back into society? That money goes to the psychiatrist, who then eventually in some manner will reinvest that money again in many things - food, housing, entertainment, etc.
How about we study the costs to society for consuming alcohol?
Skeptic, the study of what alcohol costs society is done on a continual basis. All you need to do it Google it and the answer to your question can be had instantaneously.
...or eating a bad diet and too much of it at that!
how 'bout we study the effect on society of funding stupid studies like this one instead of funneling that money toward cancer research, environmental clean energy research, the effects of social programs, educational theories, etc. I mean, I just saw a new article about the lack of research and pharmaceuticals for rare diseases.
Curious why someone would do a study on the costs of having a bona fide illness. I have never heard anyone doing a study on the societal costs of cancer patients or ms sufferers and rightfully so! This study is crap.
Why not a study on the societal costs fo people who use recreational drugs or are acohol abusers. Or maybe a study on people who like to do dangerous things in their free time, like rock climbing, mountain climbing etc and the costs to society. How about the costs of people who eat like pigs causing all kinds of illnesses and their societal costs.
Mental illness is not brought on by bad lifestyle choices and poor habits so why the hell are they always being picked on! Get a friggin grip and start studying the costs of losers on society or maybe the causes and cures of mental illness!
Willy - get a grip on yourself. First, neuroticism is not a "bona fide illness", whatever that means, it is a personality trait. Please try to comprehend the difference.
Second, the costs of illness is studied all of the time. Google "the cost of obesity" or "the cost of diabetes" or "the cost of alcohol abuse".
Third, mental illness most certainly can be brought on by lifestyle choices and poor habits. Look up "substance induced mood disorder" and then check out the correlation between obesity and diabetes and mental illnesses like depression and schizozphrenia.
We used to blame the smokers for putting too much strain on the health system, then last week it was all about how much the fat people are costing us followed by the studies that showed not all fat people are "unhealthy" (I guess I missed the study that proved "thin" people never get sick or die) and now this week I am so glad to find out it's really the neurotics' fault.
I have this sudden urge to eat a pie while I puff on a cig so I can worry about how bad the pie and the cig is for me...
Newsvine,
"To better understand the overall impact of neuroticism...They looked at their medical costs and the amount of days they were absent from work to come up with an annual figure (in dollars)". The annual figure represents the financial cost to society of neuroticism.
The scientists apparently classify absence from work, as a cost to society, to be measured in dollars or marks or francs or whatever. A potential problem with this is that it denigrates persons who are not involved in working for someone for a salary, because it classifies the not working for someone for a salary as a financial cost to society.
This is contemptuous of persons who are not working for others for a salary, because persons who are not working for others for a salary are capable of productive activities such as: studying to acquire skills that eventually financially benefit society; self-employed production of things that not now but at a later time will be sold to society; self-employed production of things that are not sold but given to society.
Looking at history, society has received much from persons who were not working for someone for a salary or immediately selling what was produced for money. Looking at history, much harm has been caused to society by persons who were employed for money or were involved in selling what they produced as soon as they produced it.
It would help to balance out the picture if it was recognized, that a financial value can be placed on goods and services and skills that are not produced or acquired in exchange for a salary or immediately sold in exchange for money.
Sometimes but not always the conscientous path for a person is to take advantage of a chance to have free-time and to not work. Especially for persons who are amongst 'the best and the brightest', using time for purposes other than producing things that are sold or working for a salary, could be the ethical thing to do.
Sometimes through no fault of their own, persons are put in a position where the opportunities they have to earn money, eat up too much of their time and energy relative to the amount of money that is paid for the time. Some people due to the misconduct of others are put in a situation where the best use of their time and energy is in activities other than working for others for money or producing things that are immediately sold for money.
One problem with modern culture, is that too much of it is produced by people who are all employees of the same small economically dominant group. Years ago there were more self-employed persons, more small farmers, and more diversity in terms of which group a person was employed by. When there is a diversity in cultural output, there is a large variety to choose from for the chooser who wants to choose the best.
The article is frightening: it is entitled, "Neurotic people are not just unhappy, they're expensive The worst ones cost society $22,000 a year in health care, lost productivity"; it proclaims the genetic roots of neuroticism and the economic cost of days absent from work as a result of neuroticism; it fails to provide counterweights to the intimidating concepts it publicizes.
-- David Virgil
i think this problem is very common in south America, too. the society of this time is changing the mood allways. in this case is a good idea of Europa that the health related with its effects is considered the most important. i think that the people shold be relaxed and to take the life more tranquil... the mental problems can´t continue to damage our world.
As a nurse in an Internal Medicine practice, the "worried well" take up a lot of the Dr's time and the other patients' time. Since the early 70s, more people see a Dr that don't really need to, but they are convinced they do. They're usually not interested in seeing a therapist. They usually have family problems and their family members complain about how hard it is to live with someone who sucks the air out of the room (in so many words.) Very sad and pathetic. And narcissistic....sigh.
Neurotic people are typical product of current ill society. Employers and society doesn't care about mental hygienic conditions. The only target is to earn money, profit for companies and great bonuses for top managers and politicians. Nobody doesn't care about regular people, what they think, or what they wish. There is no time for family life. The ideal worker is 24h/7days in work. On other hand there is the layer of the richest of this world having fun of the problems of majority people, spending money for nothing. But the revolution is the way out of it. Try not to be a stupid sheep, use your brain. We have to fight against this new way of slavery!
Neurotics have been around as long as people have.
Instead of flushing money trying to determine the costs of neurotics we should be spending the money trying to determine a better treatment for them.
Someone called neurotic people the "worried well" when in fact they are not well. Being neurotic is a sickness too - a sickness of the mind. Much as someone who is totally mentally sound but physically very ill may be more expensive to society, someone physically well but mentally sick will drain on society too. But the difference between civilized society and the rest out there is that we take care of the ill - in some lines of thought, the ill should all be rounded up and killed since they drain society.
Unfortunately, that idea is gaining some ground again, mostly amongst insurance companies who would rather let you die than pay for medical treatment. No, at the insurance companies they dont walk around heiling Hitler, but the end result is the same - a society where only the fit are allowed to survive and the rest can go die.
The correlation between mental and physical problems is a good one, and the article did not point it out. Commenters above noted that a) neuroticism might sometimes be caused by ill health; b) neurotic people take up a lot of time and money seeking treatment for (nonexistent) physical ailments. I do not believe we should always be trying to separate mind and body. The one profoundly affects the other.
Finally, I am pleased that so many of the comments have been thoughtful, courteous, and humane. It is heartening to see people use their minds and to support the idea that human beings have worth, even when they have something wrong with them.
I don't think that the idea that they are seeking treatment for "nonexistant" physical ailments is accurate. Worrying and stress actually can cause physical symptoms, but because the symptoms are started due to something in the mind, it can't be easily diagnosed when the physical body is examined. How many people have had a stress induced headache? Stress induced stomach ache? Imagine that as a chronic disorder... add in some joint pains.... The mind is a powerful thing, and the mind also triggers the edocrine system to release certain hormones, and if these levels are out of whack they can begin to break down systems and reek havok on the patient and actually cause a real physical ailment.
Oh my gosh!! Now I have anxiety that I might be neurotic!! (But at least I'm a cheap neurotic!)
OH GEE! People aren't happy all the time! What a shame. Topic is right, now we have something else to be anxious about. Tell you what, if someone is happy all the time, s/he is on some kind of medication or isn't in touch with reality. Give me a break. Let's just point out everyone's problems and bully them out of existence.
On second thought, is this a healthcare insurance plant article? We've seen several regarding mammograms (probably planted by someone who wants to cut the costs of testing--forget the savings for early detection). Now if we are sad, we are costing more to maintain? The elderly are old (who would have thought about that?), and they are costly to take care of. It's either a "duh" moment or a conspiracy. I'm voting for a conspiracy because I was in a bad mood this morning, so I bought donuts to cheer me up. There you go--article validated.
just like my grandaddy once said about the moon landing, that's Horse***t
First they came for the smokers...then they came for the fat people...then they came for workaholics and/or slackers (depends on the study...now it's the neurotics. Whose next? I sgree with all those who say the symptoms have been given the focus w/o looking for the cause(s). Everytime we turn around we are being told to watchg for about various diseases, medicines ( side effects, cure-alls, etc.), terrorist/terrorist attacks et al ad nauseum. Neurotic? Why not? Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.
BTW, should we lump in the guy whose house burnt because he didn't pay a fee? How's that to make your li'l psyche feel all warm and fuzzy!
"Forget" to pay your home insurance and then see what kind of sympathy you get from the adjuster after the fire truck leaves and your house is a total loss.
Fortunately, the homeowner, did remember to pay for his home insurance.
they should have let it burn.
They did exectly what they were supposed to do. If they did otherwise, there would have been a class action lawsuit by those who did pay. The fire started because the twit was burning trash next to his house!
as someone else mentioned, pass paying on your home insurance and then see what happens when you have a claim!