This reminds me of the 80's movie "Heathers." How heartless and cruel can someone be, to laugh in the face of the corpse of a girl you bullied to death, at her funeral? It turns my stomach.

We have to start trying to change the culture in the schools where this kind of behavior is acceptable. Where are our hearts, our souls? It all starts with the children. We must teach them respect and love for one another. School bullies, road rage, why can't people learn to be kind to one another?

An eye for an eye. -Holy Bible.

I agree with you JDUNZ. Bullying is harassment and I believe it should be a crime. As adults, we don't have to tolerate being harassed. We can file a restraining order and/or have a bully charged with harassment. So why should it be treated differently if you are not 18 years old and out of high school? There will always be bullies (in and out of school) but maybe if there were legal ramifications, there would be fewer bullies and less suicides among our youth. We owe it to our children to do something about this.

Karma is a b***h. These bullies will get theirs.

The girl who laughed over the casket - question: where are her parents in all this. These adults should be sued or prosecuted!

When will the bullies be held responsible? The school? The parents? Fu...ing M.th..r Fu..ing dammit i am just PISSED. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE.

A culture of hate, anger and lack of respect for human life breeds just that. There are too many parents not involved with their childrens lives, too many parents not setting a good example.

Prayers and blessings to the families who lost loved ones.

Someone needs to tell these kids who are wacking themselves that suicide only takes you to hell.

And people wonder why others have a negative attitude toward Christians. This is one of the cruelest things I've ever seen. How DARE you presume to say who is going to Hell (if there even IS such a place) and who isn't? Last time I looked, only GOD had the right to make that decision - and I'd like to think that He has more compassion than some of His followers - like you. With that kind of hateful attitude, don't be surprise if YOU'RE the one who ends up in Hell.

The part of the article that made me shake my head in disbelief was the bit that described how Drew Juratovac defended Eric Mohat from a bully and punched the bully in the face. Drew was then suspended for standing up to the bully and defending Eric.

I have seen other cases like this. The schools can't be bothered to discipline or punish the bullies but they are quick enough to punish those who stand up to the bullies! That is beyond pitiful - that is just sick.

In the cases described in the article the bullied student's distress turned inwards and they killed themselves. Let us not forget the Columbine massacre when the two bullied young men Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold turned their anger outwards and slaughtered those around them. Suicide is an act of mental illness and so is mass homicide - it could go either way.

School authorities ignore bullying at the peril of their own lives and the lives of their students. Bullying is not a joke, it is not "kids acting up" or teasing, it is a severe and brutal form of harassment that can result in terrible mental anguish and death.

If it was my child's funeral and some b%^&$ came in and started laughing at her in the casket, I think there would of been another funeral. Why didn't the parents throw the stupid bint out? I would of grabbed her by her hair and threw her out the door but I might of forgot to open the door. I mean, they done the damage by causing this problem and they still want to laugh at her in her casket? What kind of people are these girls? I think I still would take the jail time and there would be some more funerals in the future.

mark-2347393

Someone needs to tell these kids who are wacking themselves that suicide only takes you to hell. That would stop all suicides.

Are you on prescription meds or something? Hey kids, if you kill yourself, you'll go to an imaginary hell instead of the real one you're in right now... There.. problem solved.

Why do you see the problem as being the victim, and not the bullies?

This should be a national media push to get this message out. Ooops, oh yeah, the media are a bunch of liberal god haters.

Liberal God Haters? I thought they were supposed to be kool aid drinking socialists? Damn it I can't keep all these conspiracy theories straight anymore...

By the way... just speaking for myself... I don't hate God... I just hate your fictional version of God... there is a difference.

They'd rather make a stupid law that protects to weak and hurts the strong. Survival of the fittest thats what america use to stand for.

OK, so you ARE on meds.... if not... maybe you should be...

Let me educate you... what this country used to, and still does stand for is that...

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, AND THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS... THAT AMONG THESE ARE LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS...

Go read a book other than the bible bubba...

Robert-1410076

If it was my child's funeral and some b%^&$ came in and started laughing at her in the casket, I think there would of been another funeral. Why didn't the parents throw the stupid bint out? I would of grabbed her by her hair and threw her out the door but I might of forgot to open the door. I mean, they done the damage by causing this problem and they still want to laugh at her in her casket? What kind of people are these girls? I think I still would take the jail time and there would be some more funerals in the future.

You took the words right out of my mouth... (or right off of my keyboard)... I would have beat the holy hell out of those kids, if they laughed at my child in a coffin... totally worth going to jail to deliver that beating.

Normally I don't believe in revenge, but in this case maybe payback should be beyond brutal. Something that would make Stephen King crap his pants.

Mark - you're an idiot. Do you really think that you can stop suicide by teaching people that they will go to hell if they kill themselves? Get a grip - your version of god and religion will not stop miserable people from committing suicide. And trying to protect unhappy people from bullies is not harming the strong to protect the weak. Your viewpoint is moronic.

I remember from my time in school. First year, I was held down on the playground and kicked in the testicles repeatedly until I urinated blood. My mom discovered what had happened and talked to my teacher, who informed her that the students involved in this brutal attack "had a hard home life" and that was the end of the inquiry, zero consequences for any of them or the for the recess teachers who should have seen something going on and done something to stop it.

That wast only the beginning. The next 10 years were full of constant violence, intimidation, and terrible verbal abuse, degrading and insulting and dehumanizing, wearing myself and others down to the point we internalized what we were being told, started to believe it and hate ourselves, which led to deep depression and anxiety and paranoia, enormous stress. Learning was not the focus, avoiding the torment was. I faked sickness constantly to avoid having to go to school. I was full of hatred and anger and self loathing. I saw no way out, no escape, no chance of things getting better. Fighting back got me nowhere, asking for help got me nothing - no one took it very seriously.

I didn't kill myself. I tried though. And I wasn't the only one. Decades later, based on this article and others like, the problems are just as bad if not worse. Some kids don't understand the harm they are doing. Some are just hateful, violent, psychotic people. There needs to be a way to identify these children and separate them from the rest, preferably at another location. The fact that they get to systematically torture other students and get away with it, get a slap on the wrist, detention or suspension, a little written note in their file. OBVIOUSLY, these measures are insufficient. The school faculty from teacher to principal is criminally negligent, they don't take matters seriously enough. Because if they did, these rotten, evil children would be REMOVED, EXPELLED, or at least PUNISHED with great enough severity that they would change their behavior!!!

There has been a failure at all levels, parents, schools, children, politicians. The consequences of this failure are misery, mental illness created in previously healthy and happy children, suicide attempts, death, and many years of therapy for those involved.

We need to teach young people how to be mentally/emotionally tough, how to defend themselves against the onslaught of wickedness in public schools. Otherwise, this cycle will continue to repeat itself. With tragic consequences.

Barbara Coloroso, a national anti-bullying expert, says the school is allowing a "culture of mean" to thrive, and school officials should be held responsible for the suicides — along with the bullies.

"Bullying doesn't start as criminal. They need to be held accountable the very first time they call somebody a gross term," Coloroso says. "That is the beginning of dehumanization."

that last part is utter bs, it isnt just the schools responsibility, its THE PARENTS as well! Parents need to teach theirr kids, just like teachers at school do. if a kid misbehaves, talk to the parents, part of where the schools hands are tied, is some, not all, but some, unable to act. if i was caught being a bully when i was in grade school, i got a yardstick across the back of my head, as well anyone else. My parents were miffed, not at the teacher, when that happend in 1 instance, and 1 only, cause i never did it after. they werent upset at the teacher, it was me. same went for the other kids back then. then when you f'd up, you got punished. your parents were not forced to pay a fine for your misbehavior, and kids could care less if the folks have to pay a fine on their behalf. parents cant hit their child, and thats bullsh!t, cause one of mine midbeahves in that fasion, they know it is going to be hell to pay in one form or another. i dont tolerate that type of nonsence, my kids know it, and respect it. now my oldest is out of HS, she understands why i was the way i was about certain stuff, and she's a better person for it.

An eye for an eye. -Holy Bible.

Turn the other cheek. -Holy Bible

Behold America what you have wrought!

Bullying has been and always will be a problem. No amount of laws or restrictions will ever fix this problem. What needs to be done is put personal accountability for the bullies actions and protections in place for their victims.

However, when schools today have students geared towards the 4 Fs (Fashion - Fame - Fortune - Functions), the balance between protection and over protection is very small. We can't override the constitution, but we can make bullies pay for their actions.

Survival of the fittest thats what america use to stand for.

Uh, no. You're confusing America with fascism. America is about liberty, freedom, human dignity. How do you get 'survival of the fittest' out of that?

@ mark:

suicide only takes you to hell.

Victim Blaming is the litmus test for the Bully Gene.

untill the parents of these slez bag bullies are dealt with nothing changes.

This is what happens in the kinder gentler world where you can't punch some bigmouth a-hole in the face for running their mouth. Ive never met a bully yet that didn't shut up when someone put them in their place properly.

Somebody should pull these bullied kids aside and teach them martial arts. Then they can destroy the lives of these bullies, before their own lives are destroyed. And perhaps, the others will leave them alone in the future. Just imagine a one time bully having to spend the rest of their youth walking down the school hall to the sounds of "faggot beat you up" It is just.

In the cases of the kids who bullied my sons, the parents had no problem at all with it! One was a lawyer and threatened us if we decided to sue! And in all but one of the situations, these were kids from very wealthy homes. They were the worst monsters you ever saw and they truly delighted in tormenting the crap out of others. The one student who was involved in the one incident where my oldest was badly injured who was middle class, his father brought him over and made him apologize. The rest continued the bullying until we decided to go with homeschooling.

I know it may come off as being mean and crass, but I think it needs to be said. I'm no Bible-thumper who believes these kids will go to hell for committing suicide and all, but for the parents to blame the "system" for their own kid's misguided actions is a complete waste of time. It's about time parents start teaching their kids to not take that kind of crap from other people and to stand up for themselves. I keep hearing people talk about how things were and how they wish they could go back to the way things were, but these kids wouldn't know how o handle things if it were the good ol' days. Not all, but a lot of these kids today are just plain soft and mentally weak. And before any of you say I'm bashing the kids, I think adults that commit suicide are soft and mentally weak as well.

The best way to deal with a bully is to put them on their back!

Kids will be bullies, its kinda what they do. I blame the parents - both the bully's parents AND the bullied kids parents.

The bully's parents need to teach their kids to respect others. But often, unless the kid is just an evil little git, they are bully's because they are lashing out due to having a crappy home life.

The bullied kids parents need to teach their kid to stand up for themselves. I truely believe that many parents are actively teaching their kids to be wimps. Im sorry, but if your kid is walking out the door wearing pink monkeys on his arm - hes going to be made fun of. So either the parents need to stop the kid from doing this, teach the kid to fight, or explain that your going to get made fun of. That is all on the parents, and it was also the kid's choice to dress like that. Kids are going to mock whats different, adults mock whats different. Thats life!

My pops took each of us out when we were 5 and taught us how to throw a punch. When we were older, he taught us how to roll with a punch. My parents taught us young, defend yourself - even if you get your butt kicked, if you fight tooth and nail the bully will move on to an easier target. And that was true.

It seems our parents now are just weak, the only thing they have to say is "Violence is never the answer". Well, violence isnt the answer, sometimes you get it wrong on purpose.

I can't believe those animals laughed over the girl's casket. They better thank God that I was not the mother of that dead girl because I would have done major damage to those animals. Put me in jail because I wouldn't care. Sue me, I wouldn't care. The way I see it my life would be over if anything happened to my daughter especially at the hands of bullies. I will seek revenge.

I agree. I was tormented by the kids who were popular and the athletes of the school.

No teacher or parent was going to do a thing about it because they were quote the special kids.

I told my mother and she just ignored it because she was too busy trying to figure out away for us to be like them.

Today I have nothing to do with anything school related and noone remembers me and I like it that way.

Jo Ann: I could not have said it better myself

How many more will it take for this school system to clean friggin' house!!!!!

I would think something as drastic as this would have been done after the second suicide.

Gloryoski!!!

"When the family tried to retrieve records about their reports of bullying, school officials told them the records were destroyed during a switch to computers."

How convenient.

The whole school administration needs to be fired. This is outrageous.

This is horrible and so sad. I am a teacher and I see first hand how mean and cruel kids get towards each other. I have to say - that parents need to take more responsibility. I have called parents when I see bullying and more often than not they deny that their child had any part - "He/she didn't learn that at home" or "he/she said it didn't happen" or "we don't use that kind of language" well the kid learned it somewhere - if it wasn't at home - than maybe you should take a closer look at who they are hanging out with and what they are watching. As a parent I understand that ones first instinct is to defend your child - but the denial that I see is rampant. I think that both the parent and child need to be held responsible - and there needs to start being more serious consequences for bullying - suspensions and parenting classes and counseling for parent and child. And in cases where people are dying (like Polly Prince and Tyler Clementi and others) there has to be something the justice system can do.

"The school said the records were destroyed during a switch to computers???"

but NO OTHER school records were lost in the changeover?

THAT would sure seem incriminating to me, if I were serving on a jury...

These useless punks need to be expelled and also put in juvenile delinquent homes. And their parents need to be fined big time!!

God Bless these victims and their families.

I was bullied when I was in school cause I was over weight, but I fought back. Knocked one guy right on his ass, (and I'm a girl). He never touched me again. I finally lost weight.

As they say - Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem. The thing is if these kids would have made it out of high school they would have gotten over their problems. In College they would not have had this bullying.

But I also blame the Schools with this no bad feelings for the kids. No dodgeball or games in gym where there are losers. Kids aren't prepared for rejection and don't know how to correctly process these feelings. Let kids feel rejection as when they lose a game so they can learn this. I wonder how far these kids will take this into adulthood and kill themselves when a Boss yells at them or rides their back. The truth is there are winners and losers in life and it starts when you are just starting to walk.

@ mark-2347393.... you are douche bag. People like you is why more and more people are falling away from religion. instead of preaching god love you all no matter what you preach god only loves those who live like this. the rest are doomed to hell. screw you! All you guys do is try to force your beliefs down everyones throat and judge people. Last i checked god is the only one who can pass judgement they say. So all you bible thumpers who would say these kids are going to hell because they committed suicide should just live your life and believe what you want without infringing your beliefs on everyone else. Oh and shut your freaking hole! im glad your comment got collapsed.

Michael-366427

I feel your pain buddy. I went through a similar experience from jr. high to high-school. I remember my first year of college was when columbine happened. My dorm-mate and I (who was also a bullied nerd) sat there and watched the news come in. We both looked at each other and said, "someone is FINALLY standing up to the bullies. They deserved it. Maybe now people will learn not to pick on the nerds" Although I admit that these feelings are cruel, mean, evil, (whatever you want to call it), I don't care. To this day I do not feel sorry for the bullies killed in columbine . . . I feel each and every one of them deserved it. Does that make me a bad person? Definitely. But at least I admit it.

I actually took a different route than you, however. The bullying I endured fueled a rage that led me to working out 7-days a week, and an undying passion to be successful in life. I was determined to end it. They say "living well is the best revenge" . . . and that is completely true. Let's just say that my high-school reunion was one of the greatest nights of my life.

Am I a bad person who is overly cocky and wildly successful? You are damn right I am. And I don't tolerate any bullies anywhere . . . no matter who they are attacking.

You said it all!!! Did you know that self-righteousness is a huge sin, Mark??? Just not lest ye be judged!

Gee, MArk, did it ever occur to you that the kids who have ended their short lives willingly did so because they already saw their lives as worse than hell? Of course not you sanctimonius son of a bitch! In fact, as the victim of such behavior until I was in 8th grade, I can tell you that no written or supposed image of hell compared to how I felt during that time.

How amazingly thoughtless of you to rely on some assinine twist of your obviously twisted view of religion to drive the knife in further, to increase the pain the families of the departed feel already. Mark, they might ban me forever for this, but, YOU GO TO HELL! I'll meet you there and start in on you for real when I see you.

William J. Brock,

I'll be right there beside you (or across from you, as the case may be, as I've a feeling you won't mind tag-teaming his ass with me for the rest of eternity). ;-)

When I was going to high school there was a certain group of kids who thought that picking on me would be fun because I looked nerdy (those goddamned birth control glasses) and was rather bookish(reading a book was far more entertaining than hanging out around those douche bags) and didn't participate in sports. For weeks I sat there and took their crap-" Come on faggot! Anytime! etc..." So one day I got fed up and followed the ringleader to his locker after class- when all of his buddies weren't with him- and I said' OK, Now.". He acted all apologetic but I wasn't going to buy that. He and his buddies would have been back at it the next day. So I punched him in the mouth and the face until someone pulled me off him. That night his father called mine and threatened to sue him because Big Mouth had to get a series of stitches on the inside of his cheek. For the next couple of says I had to watch my back and BM and crew did manage to jump me in between classes at one point. He sucker punched me but I ended up choking the living sh/t out of him by the end. I skipped my next class and searched BM out in his. I walked in to that class, interrupting it, and told him I was going to kick his ass royally after school whether his buddies were with him or not. Apparently I was reacting in a way he hadn't planned on and it scared him, because he called me during lunch with lots of apologies and promises. I let it slide that time so I wouldn't end up expelled. That was the end of the problem. He's never uttered another syllable to me to this day though I hear he is still an a$$hole

I didn't tell that story to brag, but to show that people need to stand up to punks that bully. They are usually so weak that they need a group around them for security and make themselves feel bigger by putting you down. If you show them that you'll fight back no matter what they do or say to you they chicken out very quickly. BM made the mistake of thinking that my generally kind and gentle nature made me a weakling. He also forgot that I grew up with 6 brothers and I was willing to take a couple of punches to win in the end.

Lastly, bullied students should keep in mind that even though they are minors, they are still citizens and entitled to the guarantees of our Constitution and the protection of the law if necessary. Also, sometimes being expelled is worth it. The worst thing one can do with bullies is tolerate them- they see it as weakness and encouragement. Always, always, ALWAYS fight back- even if it means an ass kicking. Just do your best to leave them a permanent calling card(scar) so they'll always remember that you fight back hard- even if you do lose.

This is just absolutely tragic. These schools know about the problems and do nothing to protect the victims of these horrific bullies. I hope they sue these schools and fire all the staff involved for not putting a stop to all this bullying on the campuses that they are suppose to be overseeing.

Another thing I would like to include, is that we need to put restrictions on church and religions that teach people hate and bigotry against gay people and against those that refuse to become a part of their religious nonsense.

People are born gay as people are born heterosexual, and as some people are born STUPID!

We need to put a stop to religions and church for using their God to promote and justify all this hate, bigotry and ugliness within our communities.

Tax all church and religions: End their free ride in America now!

BoBo,

That doesn't always work. I was taught to fight. Trust me. But, when I fought back against those who bullied (and even raped) me in school, I got suspended, and my bullies got nothing at all. Our school principal even took a few opportunities to call me a faggot and a "pussy little queer" when I was in his office. I'd get the @!$%# beaten out of me by entire groups of students, then I'd get paddled by the principal (who would leave the backs of my legs deeply and completely bruised), then I'd get suspended after the paddling, then I'd get beaten by my drunk dad when I got home...

Yes, trust me when I tell you your suggestions are a bit misguided. It's often not just the bullies' parents' fault, and it's rarely the victims' parents' fault (unless they, too, bully their own children to boot), but also the fault of school administrators who might not just be turning a blind eye to such bullying, but actually engaging in it themselves on more than a few occasions (yes, I'm talking to you, Ronald Brawner, former principal of Greenland High...you evil, fat old son-of-a-bitch...assuming you're even still alive).

Unless you've been through this yourself, BoBo, it might be best to ask questions about the problem, rather than trying to give answers to it.

Those little trash b*tches who were laughing at the funeral should be charged with a hate crime, and any other little scumbags involved at the school, too! And the parents should have to pay reparations to the family.

Seriously, I'm 20... and I thought people were mean back in my day.

If I ever find out who those punks were who laughed at her dead body... they just better watch their own pathetic backs.

RIP all :(

[edit]

More constructively, why not broadcast their names and Facebooks for the world to see. That way, they will never get hired by anybody... due punishment?

I have LJ. I was a little white kid in a not nice neighborhood in the Bronx. I got my a$$ kicked almost every day, but i fought tooth and nail. Eventually, they moved on to easier prey, but i when i got caught, i made damn sure that at least one of them went down with me, no matter what. They let off because it wasnt worth the effort. So yeah, ive been through it, and that worked for me. Sorry it didnt work for you, but i would offer that advice 1000 times over. I wont make random assumptions about your life, like you did me, but you can offer your experience, and i will offer mine. Thats kind of what forums are for.

Our supposed administrators (government) are limityed in what they can do because of the 1st Amendment. The guarantee of free speech prevents taking action against these maggots. Just look at the church in Florida who get away with mocking our soldiers and government because their 'rights' are protected. Yes, something has to be done, but there is little the authorities can do because of our laws and the Supreme Court rulings.

It's time to take our country back. This is a government of the people and it is our responsibility to correct the wrongs and protect the weak.

All this venting about doing something to the bullies or the administration that doesn't control the bullying is off target. There has to be a manditory ethics course in every year of school from 6th grade on. Not to stop the bullying, to teach the "Normal" students to support each other, to teach inclusion instead of exclusion, to train students to exclude the clique culture. Only when children learn to identify their own covert prejudice can they learn how repulsive their thoughts and actions are. Approach this from the viewpoint of the students that knew of the bullying and didn't do anything to stop it. Don't turn them into snitches because they think on a different level than adults. Teach them to respect themselves by giving them reasons to respect themselves and they will learn to respect others. At that age, Might Makes Right, so they have to learn that is wrong.

I can't believe those animals laughed over the girl's casket. They better thank God that I was not the mother of that dead girl because I would have done major damage to those animals. Put me in jail because I wouldn't care.

No jury would ever convict you.

This whole story makes me so angry at the @#%^ bullies and sad for the victims---especially the part about those girls laughing over the corpse. They didn't stop, even after she was dead. Makes me wonder (frightfully) what sort of "adults" these girls will become.

I was tormented ruthlessly all through high school, by boys and girls, because I was quiet, shy, a slow learner in some respects, plus a birth defect caused me to be short and have a "funny" walk. I talked back to some of my tormentors, and reported them, but none of it did any good. The tormenting progressed to harrassing telephone calls to my home, sometimes even late at night. They also shouted insults as they drove past my house and when they saw me in public.

My father died of leukemia when I was eleven, and by the time I was fourteen Mom had a verbally abusive alcoholic for a boyfriend. So life at home was no peach, either. Depending on her mood, Mom might laugh at me when an insult was shouted from a vehicle passing our house, or when she knew I received a prank call.

At first the callers would ask for me if Mom or someone else answered the phone, and if I answered they would say "Whatcha doing,-----" and immediately hang up. Eventually, the callers would just make their taunt and hang up no matter who answered. I recognized the voices; there were three or four individuals who did this. One of them (Kortney M.) was a boy with a very distinctive voice. He always denied making the calls when I accused him to his face, yet there were times when I heard him brag about it.

Yes, there were plenty of times when I contemplated suicide. During my senior year, I didn't bother to buy a high school ring or a yearbook. All I wanted was to get out of that school. I didn't want any @#$&! mementos.

Fast forward about twenty years. One of my male tormentors is now 40 but looks like he's 60, complete with receding hairline. He had been handsome in high school. He had made fun of the way I walked. He now walks with a cane. But I still don't! When I met him after all those years, I didn't recognize him at first. I was stunned when I found out. I was also kinder than some people would have (understandably) been, because although all sorts of nasty things went through my mind, I didn't have the heart to say them.

It's hard for people who SURVIVED school bullying to put it behind them. I sometimes wondered what became of Kortney M., who was one of the worst. Turns out that he was recently released from prison. All I've been able to find out is that he served nearly five years for 2 counts of sexual battery of a child and 1 count of child endangerment. He's a Tier 3 sex offender, and will have to register for the rest of his life. Can't say I'm surprised. What a total piece of $#!* I can't say I'd be kind to him if our paths crossed again.

I was bullied in school and so were a few of my friends. This makes me so freaken sick that those cold hearted immature beasts called girls get away with this. It is said that a child is reflection of the parents.... the parents must be so proud that they raise such tacky, cold hearted children. Im sure they saw them laughing and smiling at the casket. Unfortunately they dont know too much about karma. And Mike you dumb ass, hell is HERE ON EARTH. If it wasnt, then why are so many people suffering....????

Why do kids have to be so mean? I know bullying has been around for decades. I don't know if there is more of it today or the news is just reporting it more. I despise mean kids and I despise the parents of the mean kids who let their children get away with it. Kids today, it's all about them. Spoiled rotten little brats! Kids have no fear or should I say respect for the school administration. If the school tries to correct a problem the little darling goes home and lies to their parent(s) and the parent(s) come down on the school. It's time parents become parents again! Kids know what they are taught and if they are taught that their sh!t doesn't stink then they will walk around as if they are above everyone else. Material things is what is ruining our kids. Clothing, cell phones, ipods, where one shops. The parents have created these monsters! If the kids had to wear school uniforms everyone would be the same on the outside, that might be a start. We are not all the same on the inside and we should not be picked on because of it. You don't have to like everyone, all you have to do is be polite!

I'm glad you shared those stories Aquilina. For those contemplating revenge, keep in mind that for a lot of these bullies, life has more pain and suffering and humiliation in store for them than you could hope to inflict. And 'life' won't go to jail for it either. Think of it like a big karmic boomerang, they can throw it at you, but it's going to come back to them twice as hard.

For those contemplating revenge, keep in mind that for a lot of these bullies, life has more pain and suffering and humiliation in store for them than you could hope to inflict. And 'life' won't go to jail for it either.

Some things are just worth the risk. I don't count on karma or fate to always get things right. I'm into "teachable moments". Some people don't deserve the comfort of ambiguity, to be able to rationalize and feel like a victim during their suffering. Sometimes people need to know that they're getting what they asked for and deserve. They need to see video of them sitting at that drive-thru menu ordering that knuckle sandwich with extra ketchup.

You're right, Michael. Someone else once told me, "Some things are best left to karma."

Still, the temptation can be hard to resist.

Roy,

A! Men!

My son Andrew William Kliner who lived in B'Lyn .New York commited suicide in March 21,2008 on Good Friday.Andrew William Kliner was bullied all grade level Schools.He dropped out of Abraham Lincoln High School &was good in Wresling Matches.Andrew told me;(They say I talk like a baby).Charles Sherpard at 17 years old found Andrew William Kliner hanging from beam in basement at 7:30AM.Charles at 8AM knocked on my bedroom door & said I do not see Andrew in Basement.Andrew was acused by across thr street neighbor son on Saturday March 15 of 2008 shooting him with a Bee Bee gun Andrew owned.Andrew was at hardware Store with friend Shane & me buying window pane.Dennis our neighbor told him cops are at the house stay with me.Andrew was arrested by the cops along with 4 other friends.Andrew could not handle the fact that police arrested mother at 9PM for what his friends did &we got out of jail Monday 17Th.I was talking to son Andrew about Court date April 15-2008 on Holy Thursday at 11PM.Itold him to ask for a trial hearing so boy across the street could perger himself on the stand.Andrew replied;(Mom I did not think of that & I will do it. When Andrew got out of jail Monday ;said i am looking at 3 years jail time.Even thou they dropped 1/2 62 Precent Charges against me 7 court date April 15.2008.On Friday at 12AM in morning Andrew told me to please go up stair & not comeany closer to him.I never got to go to my son's funeral & was told 300 people showed up.His school teachers & wrestling friends and students who liked him.At the funeral they placed a Wrestling Champian Belt in coffin.My brother -Sister -Step Son Video the funeral for me on March 26,2008.At Coney Island Hospital on Suicide watch they found me blue & 5minutes away from death.When they checked to see if i was awake yet for brother John.I woke up at Gracy Square Hospital on March 27,2008 with step son at my side from husbands 1ST marriage.My hearts go out to all the other parent loosing there beloved child &theone family 3 children.Andrew would of been 20 years old on Jan.27,2008.

i cant believe what i am readin..how come they isnt one person in that whole town can do sumthing about what is happenin in there.. not one person has the balls to stand up and get those bullies to stop.. or suspend them for life or something.. and when they asked for copy of the records they told them that they got destroyed.. that school has something to hide and i can not beleive that someone wont step in and stop them from doin that.. what kind of parents are raisn such children that they can do that to another person..its tyme to put the kiddz gloves away..and bring out the bats..but like that say karma is a b****..they will get there's sooner or later..and i pray its alot sooner then later.. how many kiddz have to die before somthing before sumthing is done?? this is a crazy world we are livin in..

Bullies will understand only one thing. They need the the same treatment they give out so they know what its like. Had that been my daughter, the moment the girls laughed at the casket, would have been the last moment they would have been standing, as I would have faced prison to beat the @!$%# out of them.

Since parents now a days don't want to believe that their little darling(s) would do anything wrong maybe the parents should get a ticket when their child bullies, smarts off or does anything that is considered disrespectful to others. then maybe they will start making their kids mind their manners. The kids should be fined along with the parents...community service or something in that line.

Tristan, in reference to your post #1.19, please note:

An eye for an eye. -Holy Bible - Old Testament

Turn the other cheek. -Holy Bible - New Testament

Note also that "an eye for an eye" is interpreted by many (and notably by rabbinical scholars) not as a call for revenge but as compensation for an injury that is suitable to the offence. Not necessarily that one gives up one's own eye as a punishment for causing another to lose their eye but rather to compensate the injured party in such a way that it makes up for the loss.

Lastly note that much of the teachings of the Old Testament are not consistent with the teachings and philosophy of Jesus Christ although many "Christians" tend to ignore that fact and cite the Old Testament when it supports their prejudices or agendas.

No I am not a Christian but I do like to see the facts of any situation presented clearly.

The worst part of all this tragedy is that those who had a hand are being protected by the school. I've been bullied as well but in my case it didn't last very long as I'm more than willing to fight violence with violence not that it makes it right but in my experience most people can't stand a taste of their own medicine.

Well, one way to work on the problem is to bring back the paddle. My parents utilized spanking to keep me in line. I go spanked maybe three times after which the threat of it would be enough to keep me in line. Now I am a well functioning polite person. A couple of good thwacks with the paddle associates bad behavior with pain and it is psychological fact that humans avoid pain at that level. The problem now days is that there is no real punishment associated with this kind of bully like behavior be it physical or mental harassment. Something is needed and I do not buy that whole load about negative punishment being worthless.

Another note. I have seem some comments about the whole Jesus said "turn the other cheek." It does not mean what it sounds like it means seeing as how the bible has so much symbolism in it. When a higher ranking person back in the time of Jesus would strike someone they would do it with the back of the left hand as it was considered filthy to use the right hand for such a thing and using the palm rather than the back of the hand was an acknowledgment of equality. To turn the other cheek would force the use of the palm or right hand to strike them again. Effectively it was an act of striving for equality to turn the other cheek. Jesus was not saying just take beatings without ever fighting back in any fashion.

Source of this is my college religion class on the new testament from a professor who specializes in study of the gospels especially the gospel of John.

Come over to my house Mark, we'll see if you survive. I doubt it. Bullying is nothing new, and it's not going to stop any time soon. People don't like different or something they can't understand. Kids are underdeveloped people who learn how to act from their parents and peers. The fact that these horrid grubby creatures had these dark feelings of hate and self-loathing in their hearts and chose to take it out on easy prey, is just awful.

Someone who chooses to be a disingenuous prick and use hell as reason not to commit suicide, isn't a Christian or a nice person. If you think you are being held back, as a Christian you should stop and lend a helping hand willingly, with no reservations. If it pains you so to be held back by such a weak society, then leave society moron. Remarks like that are not productive, realistic, and lack any other redeeming value, other than showing how ugly and small your soul is. How little compassion you have for another human being. Sounds like you used to be a bully, Mark.

yea like the way the guards did that guy that always beat on Tim Robbins character in the Shawshank Redemption

All of this talk lately on the subject of bullying really takes me back to my days in the glorious hell hole known as public school. I too was the subject of the bully's ire throughout the majority of my primary and secondary academic career. The psychological effects of bullying on a child cannot be understated. From my personal experience, those effects are quite profound as I find myself still encountering their remnants 13 years after the fact. It seems you can only be told that you're worthless and will never amount to s**t so many times before you start to believe it just as you can only be taken advantage of so many times before you start to believe that you deserve it.

It took me years of the most intense, untreated, depression before I finally started coming out of it. Was it because I was weak willed/minded as some seem to suggest? Possibly. However,when most of the external voices you hear are negative, your internal voice has an odd way of taking the same tone. In the end, my tormentors didn't really need to torment me as I soon took that task upon myself as well via negative self-talk and perception. Talk about a double whammy!

It may have been easier if I had a few non-familial voices to help balance out all of the negativity I was internalizing on a daily basis. Sadly, the only people that could fill this role for me were the administrators and staff at school who turned out to be just as bad as the students. Scratch that, they were worse. They helped to reinforce the BS I was fed by my fellow students. In the end, my "education" from public school taught me nothing except to distrust authority figures, a sense that there is no justice in this world (since every time I stood up for myself, I was the one in trouble), and an unhealthy amount of self-hatred.

Why do I share this? Because it seems far too many people I've met still equate bullying with the good old fashioned physical kind. Don't get me wrong, I took my lumps as well, but the physical aspect was easier to deal with. It just hurt like hell for a while and then you got over it. Physical bullies were easy to avoid. Mental bullies are the worst of the lot, they do the most damage in the long term and are almost impossible to avoid. Let me tell you, physical wounds heal a lot quicker than psychological ones.

I've seen a few people make reference to the whole "bullies have hard home lives" line. Sure, but those people tend to be the physical bullies and really don't do as much harm overall since most "geeks" like I was understood them to be idiotic Neanderthals and could at least claim some sort of Parnassian higher ground on the intellectual front as a means of coping with their barbaric antics. The worst student bullies I encountered believed they were better than everybody else and loved nothing more than viciously belittling the "unworthy" people they felt below them for sport. These were people smart enough to employ more than mere one liner insults such as fag/queer/dork/geek/loser or any of those other patently weak insults that only leave one feeling rather unliked. Oh no, these were kids that knew exactly how to craft their words while seeking out and exploiting every weakness/fear/insecurity no matter how carefully hidden to render one feeling ultimately worthless and unfit to be breathing the same air. These same people were also masters of public humiliation. This sort of torment can only go on for so long before you begin to doubt yourself which leads to the sorry state of affairs I described earlier. Worse still, these little s**ts know exactly how to get away with it and are generally well liked so now you not only feel like nothing, but nobody believes these f'ers could possibly be so cruel when you take up the matter with any of the authority figures!

"So, what's your point?" I can hear some asking. Simply that there really isn't a whole lot that can be done. The most insidious offenders are also the ones that are the hardest to stop. The only thing that can be done is for parents to be observant, notice what's going on with their kids, and intercede as necessary. It helps if you cultivate a relationship early on with your children that involves them being unafraid to share their innermost feelings and issues as my parents did. Even if some of it seems trivial to you (in retrospect, I see a lot of what I endured as trivial), chances are it isn't trivial to them at the time.

If my parents hadn't have been proactive and involved in helping me cope while doing little things to help me feel special, I probably would have offed myself as well since nobody else was giving me any sort of positive reinforcement. While I'm not saying that this would work in all instances, I can say that my love for my parents far outweighed my pain any time the thought of suicide crossed my mind as it so often did. It also didn't hurt that my parents talked to me openly about suicide when I was young and explained how selfish the act was since it only ended the suffering of the individual while inflicting undue suffering on those who loved them most. In the end, had it not have been for the open candor of my parents and their immense love for me, I doubt I would be here to type this today.

As one final note, I think that it is important to point out (just in case anybody has forgotten from their school days) that when you're a school aged child you believe the way you interact with people at that age will be similar to the way you interact with society as an adult. The very prospect of everlasting torment until my death is usually what brought me to consider killing myself. It could be quite helpful to point out how this isn't the case and that life does get a lot better once you're an adult. If nothing else, I would point out to my kids that there is an interesting correlation between juvenile behavior and later socioeconomic standing. At least from my experience, the biggest pricks grew up to be the ones on the bottom of the ladder or at least much more pathetic than they made themselves out to be! Poetic justice as far as I'm concerned. I guess too much time honing insult skills left too little time for the development of the intellect. (Note: I'm not trying to be classist here, it's just rewarding in a sadistic way to know that those that tormented you the most as a kid didn't make it very far. It's a feeling I'm sure every bullied person here understands.)

Here's an idea. Let's put a court room next to the school (not in it, but next to it) with a judge and a jury and lawyers and everything, and try this stupidity as it happens. You know, an assembly line, from the classroom to the principal's office, to the court, to the judgement, to the exoneration or punishment of the accused, then to the compensation or fine...all before the close of business... Feel free to add to this...

Anybody think this is a good idea?

'cause all I see is bitching and whining and not too people offering very many solutions...

On a personal note; If I was being bullied, I'd end up over in the courtroom next to the school for defending myself...

Parents, you won't always be there to protect your children but you can let them know that they have the power to defend themselves and the bullying will stop if given the right motivation. Who says that violence never solves anything?

I grew up in a small town and I was picked on all the way through middle school because I was smaller than everyone else (I was a year younger than everyone). I got beat up a lot but I remember that in 3rd grade I beat the crud out of these two kids that pushed my face in the snow. I went home crying and my mom asked me what was wrong. She was proud of me that I stood up for myself. She said it was okay to fight if I was defending myself but not to pick on others, that was wrong. That turned things around for me because I found out that I had some power to defend myself and I wasn't going to put up with it anymore. I hated fighting but I also wasn't going to put up with being picked on. That landed me in several fights, too many to count, but it didn't matter how big the bully was or how many people I was fighting, I'd still fight and fight til someone stopped it. By the time I reached high school, people figured that they couldn't pick on me anymore because no one wanted to fight me. I still got teased but then I'd give them this look and they knew they'd pushed the limits so they backed off or suffered the consequences. I didn't get into any fights in high school.

I did not enjoy the bullying but beating a bully up was enjoyable because they soon realized that they bit off more than they could chew. Most bullies pick on those that are smaller or different or those that don't defend themselves but I did. I wish that more kids would stand up for themselves and not tolerate the teasing because no matter how much a person bullies another, there will always be someone there to kick their a$$.

I completely agree. Two of my kids were bullied in school and the school did nothing to stop it, even though we complained repeatedly. It stopped when I took matters into my own hands and went after the kids myself.

Several states have been trying for years to pass laws making it illegal to bully or harass another person - Get your politicans to do something meaningful by introducing anti bullying laws. Remember it was once OK to sexually harass someone until it became illegal by law. Use more than your voice - VOTE!!!!

@Mark

Your mental deficiency is quite advanced, perhaps you should get that looked at.

1) Only Catholics hold that suicide sends one to hell. It is dogmatic. Keep your bull@!$%# religion to yourself.

2) American stands for equality for all, freedom for all. "For all" means the weak as well as the strong. Get with the program.

Robin Steele, if you think a solution is for the learning disabled to take martial arts, you do not 'have an elevator that can reach the top floor'.

Anyone should teach their kids to stand up for themselves.

How does one teach kids how to not get murdered? Your implication that there is a definite way to do this sounds like a 'mealy-mouthed' defense of the bullies.

Agree. Between the complete loss of control over how your kids are raised and the extremely poor job of basic education I'm surprised there isn't a wholescale abandonment of many Urban Public Schools.

I guess those that take this proactive approach are the ones who actually care and are involved in what their children are learning and how they are being indoctrinated in things that the parent disagrees with. Those that are left are the ones who are truly at risk IMO.

I live outside of Detroit and this is exactly what has happened in the Detroit Public School System. Lousy scores indicative of a completely susbstandard education product and a graduation rate in the 30% range. And these poor children will be a continuing problem both for themselves and their Society, again, IMO.

The reason there isn't abandonment of public schools is because parents have blind faith in teachers and school administration, and the educational system itself. They don't have a clue what is going on there each day (they'd be horrified and disgusted if they did) and they are ok with that. They don't take matters of bullying seriously until it's too late. Parents can tell something is wrong with their kids, that they are hurt and upset regularly, but still order them to go to school and endure the torment until they are broken down.

Unfortunately, it can take something truly terrible to shake people out of their blind faith and apathy. All parents in this school district (and every other one) should take this opportunity to sit down their kids and talk to them about these issues, and give them a very clear understanding that bullying behavior will not be tolerated, ever, and there will be severe consequences for those who do. And a pledge to protect their children from such a thing.

And when a teacher corrects your child you parents go ballistic.... This boils down to parenting and not allowing correction in school.

Thank you tactical. People are always quick to blame public schools and the teachers for their children's lack of self control and poor social skills. Maybe if parents did a little parenting their kids wouldn't be such dip sh!ts.

Being in the military my time available to go to my children's conferences is very limited by my wife and/or I go to all of them when we get the chance. My son's teacher calls and tells us that he isn't turning in his work, we question him as to why. They inform us that he's slacking off in class? Guess what? We randomly pop up in the school and let him know that we aren't putting with nonsense or immature activity while he is supposed to be learning. My kids know that school is for learning. It's not a popularity show, it's not a hang out place. If their in sports and their grades slip, then sports are obviously a problem and I will pull them out until their grades get back up. They are required to read for at least one hour a day after they are done with their chores and homework. Parents need to take responsibility for their children. If your kid is screwing up in school, it's probably not the teacher's fault. Occam's tells us that it's most likely your child being a dip sh!t when they're supposed to be learning and that is a character flaw that you as a parent allowed to happen.

We have a saying in the military: Soldiers are a direct reflection of their leadership. The same thing applies to children and their parents.

Prime example of what happens when a$$ whoopin's fall by the wayside. If parents would discipline their kids, there wouldn't be any bullies.

i believe the family has shown so much class, they never snooped down to the level of the horrible people who tormented their child, truly they must be a truly loving family, these are true Americans and some of the best Humans America has to offer,as fare as the bullies go, may God rebuke them for their wrong-full hurtful acts, if i were to say condemnations it only makes them want to try and hurt others more , the cruel behaviour of the bullies are not only acts of aggression and verbal torture but show signs of sociopaths and psychopathic behaviours , the authorities really need to watch those people apparently they thrive on harming others with no feelings for others , very disturbing, they need to be committed into a hospital and be completely evaluated by psychologist, In my opinion they will definitely find signs of mental dysfunction,,in this story we can see the best and worst of Americans.IN my opinion the schools teachers and administrators are a big part of what is happening there, no doubt in my mind, the community needs to tell the school bourd to fire them and if they dont then recall the school bourd and replace them, NOW

JEREMY-664722...Prime example of what happens when a$$ whoopin's fall by the wayside. If parents would discipline their kids, there wouldn't be any bullies.

Agreed Jeremy, however we have allowed DCF to take away our RIGHTS to dicipline our own children. I remember watching my 14 yr old niece tell her parents as she climbed out the bedroom window..."I AM NOT GROUNDED....GO AHEAD, TRY IT, I WILL CALL THE COPS AND DCF ON YOU"....and she DID!

Ironically, she died of a drug overdose on the bathroom floor several years later....she was a mother of 2 small children herself...the first was born when she was only 16

Marika

Bull Puckey. There was terrible bullying since the first time two kids ever got together. I graduated H.S. in 1965 and bullying went on every day and every place. Kids learned where not to go and when. Some parents were like you think and others were not. I met parents that were proud of their kids being able to push others around. I met parents that didn't know their kids were punks and some of them then layed down the law and sometimes that worked if it was soon enough. No, Marika, there is no world like you saw, and there never was.

Prime example of what happens when a$ whoopin's fall by the wayside. If parents would discipline their kids, there wouldn't be any bullies.

Except there's no evidence that corporeal punishment actually helps at all. The bigger issue is one of responsibility - parents are simply refusing to be responsible for their children or their behavior. This is reflected in many of the teacher "accountability" laws that were recently passed in many states - all of those laws place 100% responsibility on teachers and NONE on students or parents.

seems to many for small district

Odds are, there are some copycats. Juvenile suicides often come in spates. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that there is anything different about this district just yet.

No, odds are that the same group of little s-h-i-t-s is bullying lots of kids. How many in that school are suffering right now at the hands of these girls/guys?

To any kid who is bullied that might be reading this: Keep your head up - there is a big world out there when you leave high school and most of your tormentors will end up living in the trailer park with 5 illegitimate children...at least mine did.

From the Best-idea-no-one-wants-to-hear-file...

To any kid being badly bullied: Don't commit suicide, there's a better way. Instead, take out the bullies that are the problem. You'll feel better, the world will be a much better place without them, and you'll be out of juvenile detention when you turn 18.

I think also in Arkansas, where those three boys opened fire was because of bullies. If you look at most of the school shootings, the ones that are behind the guns have been bullied by those of a certain click. I don't condone the shooting but they might not of happened if the schools would punish those who bully the kids. If you look, most of the bullies are the athletes or cheerleaders. Of course, the schools will protect them and let the "geeks" or outcasts be picked on. It happened to me when I was in school because my family was poor. We didn't wear the name brand clothes so of course we were the victims. I never thought of taking a gun to school, but I was in trouble for fighting every now and then. I tell my son to stand up for himself and if they get in your face get right back. If you let it start it will continue. If you let them know you will not be a victim than you won't be. If they hit you, hit them back but only harder. I think that if most of these kids who are bullied fight back, then the bullies will find an easier target.

All kids that are being bullied need to turn to there parents for help! If nothing else, there is a shoulder to cry on and let the anger out. Secondly, they need to attend a self awareness class or two when they are away from learning some form of a martial art. They don't have to go and kick anyone's butt, but they will learn a lot of self confidence and how to handle more than one idiot bully at a time. The worst bullies by a long shot are girls, mostly because they have grown up in a protected enviornment and don't realize the consequences of their actions. Most boys, will end up with a punch in the nose, or two, and learn at an early age not to be a bully.

No, odds are that the same group of little s-h-i-t-s is bullying lots of kids. How many in that school are suffering right now at the hands of these girls/guys?

I see that you have a lot of support, but it is statistically unlikely that the bullies are so much more vicious here than on average, and that is the cause of the 4 suicides.

Bullying is a hot button issue at the moment, but it's not new, and there is no evidence that it is more vicious today than it once was, or that it is causing more teen suicides. Occam's razor, folks.

Teen suicides do cluster, and media glamorization and hype is a factor. This npr article discusses a Columbia University study on the issue.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120755264

Here's another slightly older study about clustering of teen suicides.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2296/7/32/

No, I'm not defending bullies either, I was on both sides of that coin at different times growing up and it is terrible for all involved.

I make these points because there is so much emotion around this issue that I fear we're headed for criminal prosecution of children for being jerks (like we criminally prosecute kids as sex offenders).

These stories evoke an emotional response in all humans, these things are tragic. However, we must be rational (and not emotional) when considering how best to remedy the problem.

I promise if my child ever comes home saying she was bullied, I'm going to school the next day with her and everyone is going to sit down and have a little talk. Don't think I won't snatch up someone else's child and jerk a knot in their a$$.

If my child came home and told me about being bullied, I would find out where the bully lives and pay a visit to his/her parents. I would make it perfectly clear that it better end or they will be in the hospital and or court! I would also have my child carry a recorder in her pocket.

I give that man in Florida who got on the school bus defending his daughter a pat on the back. He has the right idea.

I would make it perfectly clear that it better end or they will be in the hospital

That'll show 'em that violence isn't the answer!

Shave the girls heads. I think that would be a good punishment for the snooty little bitches and no make up. For the boys make them clean the bathrooms after school or before school for the school year and no playing sports!

Bullying is a hot button issue at the moment, but it's not new, and there is no evidence that it is more vicious today than it once was, or that it is causing more teen suicides. Occam's razor, folks.

Bullying itself, perhaps not. But the ability of rumor to spread is much higher now than in the past, and it's much harder to hide without complete social isolation, which for most kids is not a feasible alternative (or potentially even more destructive).

I got bullied a lot in school for being poor up until one day in second grade, 2 boys followed me out of school, and were calling me names, pushing me, and I tried to "ignore them" like the teacher & my mom said. But then one boy knocked my books out of my hand. So I turned around, and punched him as hard as I could. He fell to the ground, and the other boy ran away. I beat the boy on the ground pretty good, until my mom saw what was happening and called me off. The embarrassment of being beaten by a girl was enough to where the bullying stopped, and the other kids left me alone because they didn't want it to happen to them. That's how you deal with a bully. Ignoring them DOESN'T WORK. Telling an adult DOESN'T WORK. Beating the crap out of the bully DOES.

Although such a tragic case, but lets be fair, what can the school do to the bullies without get sued by their parents ? The laws need to be changed and people have to be accountable for their actions, Thanks for all the liberal agendas, they don't have to now..

" but lets be fair, what can the school do to the bullies without get sued by their parents ? "

really aaww? the schools should be more interested in protecting those kids that are being bullied instead of worrying about being sued by the parents of the kids who are doing the bullying. there are many things they can do to keep this from happening. they can put the kids in seperate classes; they can give "detention" to the ones doing the bullying...or do they even have that anymore? they can suspend or expel kids that are hurting others. they can monitor the halls between classes. there are LOTS of things school administrators can do besides turning a blind eye. all of this could have been avoided if people had paid more attention.

"Let's be fair" 1st time warning, second time expulsion. Let them get home schooled if their parents are smart enough, if not tough Sh!!!t. McDonlald's hires every day.

Bullying is a national epidemic and not just among kids. One need look no further than the comments on newsvine. People say whatever they want with no consideration for the feelings of others and no concern of how they will be perceived. People troll through articles just so they can blame the president (or Fox News or whoever) for everything. This isn't about expressing an opinion or debating ideas - it's all about name-calling and insults. Adults are no longer polite or kind to each other in person and they're far worse in cyberspace. Until we all decide to be considerate and civil to each other we have no chance of ending bullying.

joanne you are repulsive...if I'm not mistaken this school was located in the suburbs, not the inner city. A little "street justice" might not be such a bad idea under the circumstances. HRT thank you for your insightful expression. We have turned into a Nation of whiners who just love to play the "blame game" without knowing what in the hell we are talking about.

HRT-

I agree completely. Some of these posters on Newsvine could easily be the parents of those bullies in school. Not much respect out there any more.

If these bullies are breaking the school rules, then the school cannot be sued. Oh, I forgot, do the kids have rules to follow or are they in charge? Expell these future jail birds.

Firstly, my sincere compassion and sympathy goes out to these families. This is a society that is supposed to be civilized and yet in the year 2010 primitive and wild behavior runs amok. We adult citizens are all to blame for this erosion of trust and the guarantee to just be able to attend a school, go to the store, or walk down a street safely. Also, for an adult or a child, to allow mental and physical abuse to go on and to allow persecution and mean spiritedness and yes, mental illness to continue when we know better. Our society has become too violent.

There are so many great statements here, on the one about drugs, I was thinking the same thing. Ohio is like a stew of ingredients; poverty, ignorance, and addictions as dope gets trucked through here like crazy and meth is a big problem too. Crack and Methamphetamine addiction eliminates feelings, affect and mood and produce zombies whose bodies, especially teeth are quickly decaying. Throw in some severe sun starved cabin feverish depressives whose parents are either worried working busy upper or middle class or destitute on welfare and you have a lethal mix. Much is not dealt with due to corruption, lack of financial and physical resources, and danger to law enforcement officials on the local level. Social services workers get intimidated, there are not enough counselors to go around. Some towns do better than others. The north gets hard up the 77 - Canton, Akron and then you have Cleveland which is a dark and cold city in the winter. It is known that the cities in the north around the great lakes have a high rate of depression and suicide for many years now. This austerity, combined with a strict small town conformity and the finger pointing and competitiveness of bourgeois consciousness creates a horrific alienation and class distinction. All of these problems on the psychological and social level from generation to generation create the ongoing situation.

We only have ourselves to actively get up and change the situation, not some bearded guy in the sky. Believe in ourselves and participate in local community decisions related to health and safety first. Always. This is where parents can be pro-active, get together in neighborhood watches and council meetings to keep their community safe and break through these barriers. Although there is some mean spiritedness, cold winters, and other obstacles (financial), Cleveland has had some stellar representatives who have worked tirelessly and loved their City dearly, such as the wonderful Stephanie Tubbs-Jones who passed away so suddenly a couple years ago. What a warm personality and a beakon of light she was, and I am sure there are many others who shine extra brightly there because they have learned to be extra strong in their home environment! As with any-town USA, Cleveland has an interesting history and some great things too.

As has been stated, there are options. Home schooling or a small group of students schooled privately with parents who care and shift off is an all American alternative that has been very effective in some neighborhoods, this is a choice for parents which is not left or right or up or down or any which way. This is a concern of the health and well being of their children and goes to a foundation beyond anything partisan. Shifting off gives teaching or tutoring responsibilities to the best experts in different areas of study. Some may excel in English, or History, others at Mathematics or Science. So the group of parents can fill in for each other in skill as well as time supervising and teaching. It is also ethical in the real sense. Concepts like the golden rule should be taught early, clearly and by example - like table manners, making a bed, washing hands, hygiene and brushing teeth, etc.. These things are taught at home and the teacher in the community public or private school is limited in discipline, therefore, depending on the parents to do their part in instilling the basic values and lessons of life that come from a good loving home.

The private or public school teachers do a lot but cannot do it all. There are too many latch key kids and too many whose parents are burnt out, have adult problems and are not there emotionally due to overwhelming pressures of making a living sufficient to putting the food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads. This crosses class stratification boundaries. The middle, rich and fixed income families are all feeling the stress now, some very severely if a home has foreclosed or a parent laid off, for example. I see more expensive homes up for sale now just as much as the lower priced ones and they are all sitting, just sitting and getting more and more dilapidated. Part of Cleveland, and the other cities and towns in Ohio are just boarded up homes going for next to nothing. Many of the beautiful big turn of the century homes are getting torn down due to infestation of rodents and termites. They are gutted out and the copper pipes stolen to be turned in for money at the metal recycling places. This is truly a shame because with each mansion, we are losing a piece of our heritage and history, not to mention beautiful woodwork and craftsmanship we may never be able to afford or replace again.

These are not easy times and the children have been watching the parents argue, or the parents are gone, are workaholics, or in being depressed themselves are getting so loaded they cannot function. So the children get hurt and angry inside, especially when abused or neglected, and quite naturally, they will act out at school. On one side or the other, when kids see that someone new or different is not going along with their clique, they have an instinct, similar at times to a pack of wolves, to ostracise and pick at a victim, and it gets worse as time goes on and nothing is done to stop it. As in nature, there is this horrible rejection of the outcast within human nature as well. If a teacher recognizes this beginning it is up to them to put a stop to it in class immediately and notify the parents and if it persists, to notify the principal and vice principal and also to administer MANDATORY counseling if the school has a counselor and therapy must include the parents and teacher. If the parents are delinquent, the school and authorities should have a right to expel or suspend the child and encourage the parent to either home-school or enroll the child into another school. There should be no restraints on this such as enforced busing either. It should be a parent's right to drive their child to a school farther away if need be...or find/arrange a carpool with other parents whose children attend that school whether it be parochial, public or private.

Sometimes a teacher dislikes a student who is different or has a personality characteristic that is obnoxious to the teacher and the teacher may also pick favorites. Teachers must check themselves if they recognize that they are favoring the star performers over the quiet or learning challenged children. Some schools have different level classes, for example, two third grade classes, one for learning challenged and one for high achievers. There is good reason for this and that is that more attention that is appropriate to your student's needs is available. Many schools cannot afford two classes or are not large enough and so must include all levels. If your child is at a level where you think he or she is being held back, perhaps there is extra tutoring available at school or home, or you may wish to consider enrolling your child in a more specialist school that offers a more appropriate curriculum.

One bad apple is so true in a class room. I have seen one bad kid ruin or hold back an entire class by repeated disruption to the point that I really wished that child could be tutored or sent to another class. If others get infected by this student's rebelliousness or acting out, and think they can get away with it, they will start in and it is best to separate them to the other side of the room as quickly as possible before it settles in as routine behavior. Bad sportsmanship on the playground is also something to watch out for, teaching good sportsmanship is so important. Without the losers there could not be winners...so we sing "For he/she's a jolly good fellow" for good reason. Whatever the level, it is character building lessons like these that children take into the rest of their lives. As a good teacher you will have built a part of that person forever. As a mother you have named your child, given that child life, and nurtured, sheltered, fed and clothed your child until they can go out to have a home of their own, again, a gift given to a future life that is forever.

Cherish your children, they only come to you once and then are grown and gone and your life is lived, and the years have gone by you. Each and every one of us create our reality through our feelings, thoughts and actions. We have the power to bring into reality an idea or thought or to leave it there and not bring it into action. Whether we each create a heavenly life or hellish life is simply up to each and every one of us. If we all realized that no one can own everything for ever...we just rent this body for awhile and then its over as we age, there would be less reason for any strife. Smile and say hello to your neighbors and let the sunshine in. Life is too short. Let there be peace and let it begin with me. These are just some loving and caring words of wisdom from the experience of having been bullied and traumatized in elementary school and having been a teacher for many years, they are only insights and suggestions and words of comfort, not anything written in stone, however, I do hope my spelling and punctuation is good, and I hope that many American children grow up with a kind teacher who is good at English punctuation, spelling, and penmanship too so that some day after I am gone, they can enjoy reading many fine books and do what I am doing now!

Mostly though, to my young people, if you should read this, remember that there are options and communicate your problems, if you need help, reach out, someone is there to help and change your situation whatever it is and whatever your age. Reach out to someone who cares, be it a neighbor, a teacher, a friend or a relative...do not give up and blame yourself when there are many reasons for what is going on...victims do not live in vacuums. This is a social problem. Shine on, believe in yourself! I did and it all worked out over time. High school was blah, but later I went to junior college and I got my AA, got through college with my BA, taught and got my MA, and my life improved greatly. It wasn't always easy but I finally made it after many years. Hang in there, this is the USA and although life comes with no guarantees such as natural catastrophes or accidents unforeseen, everyone is born with a natural aptitude for something, everyone has a special gift that they can give to this world. You know what you like to do, what interests you, so go for it because the opportunity is still there for you now if you just take that class or go to that activity and work at it! Know also, that others will see that you care, that you are serious and trying and they will be there to support you, really. Wishing you the very best. ;D

thanks for the wonderful comment! god bless you and your family! Cheers!

Anonymous Insight you have one of the best posts I have seen on this site. Kudo's to you for posting it.

I was bullied in some ways when I was in school to. Mine was mostly verbal bullying but it hurt all the same. I was a poor, white kid, I had difficulty learning some subjects and in others I did pretty good. I was also very shy and awkward. Fortunately I did learn some self defense techniques that worked for me including a few fighting (self defense) moves taught to me by my dad and my brothers (I had 7 younger brothers eventually & I was the only girl). I was always taught to be kind to others and I was also taught that while I should try to be kind to the bullies I did not have to take it if they kept up with it. Kindness does go a long ways and will really throw a bully off kilter. I turned the other cheek as much as I could but when I couldn't take it any longer I learned how to strike back with my words when necessary (I didn't use "nasty" language either) and not end up getting myself in trouble in the mean time. I never actually had to resort to being physical with anyone thank goodness but if I needed to have done it I might not have won the fight but the bully would have been feeling some of my blows at least. I know a few of them felt my words when I finally used them. They were a bit surprised but...it did help me. I was also able to help a friend or two of mine who were also under going some bullying by the same bullies. High School was the worst for me because I ended up going to 3 High Schools. The first one, a parochial High School wasn't all that bad and I liked that school but the other two were both public High Schools and they were definitely a culture shock for me with the way kids talked, behaved etc... . I had just been through 6 years of parochial school (4 grade school years and 2 High School years) so I was not very well prepared for how public school kids acted, talked etc... I never dreamed of doing such things to others whether they were other students, my parents, teachers etc... . I had to much respect for them and for myself to be so mean and cruel. Needless to say I was very happy to finally graduate from High School and have never gone to a High School reunion or anything like that and don't care to start now although there are some people from all of my High Schools that I do regret loosing contact with and would love to see them again. I am 63 years young at this time. I am a much stronger person now and not near as shy as I used to be. Now I would speak my piece much sooner and if I were physically attacked I would fight as hard as I could and if necessary get hold of an equalizer of some kind to make the fight much more equal.

I taught my childrent that they did not have to take being bullied, they could defend themselves verbally and/or physically if necessary. The one thing I stressed to them was never to throw the first punch (that way you didn't start the fight) but that they never had to take a second punch. Take that first one so you aren't blamed for starting the fight and then go at the person with all you have so as to defend yourself. My kids always tried to stop things verbally before they resorted to their fists and most of the time they were successful at that but the few times they had to resort to their fists they took that first punch and then laid in to the other person. My kids knew that I would defend them if they were in the right. They also knew that if they were in the wrong then they were going to be answering to me and anyone else that they needed to answer to to. Thank goodness my kids grew up to be some very decent people and they even defended a few others who were unable to defend themselves for one reason or another. My daughter and son used to fight like cats and dogs between themselves but one time when some kids were picking on my son and he was unable to defend himself adequately my daughter went out and beat those kids up. I asked her why she did that when she was always beating on him etc... . She said it was because he was hers to beat up and not anyone elses. Needless to say those kids left my son alone so they didn't have to answer to his sister. Both my son and daughter still don't agree and get along on a lot of things but...they did become very good people.

I also have a son who is both physically and mentally challenged but as far as I know he never was bullied in school. Of course, he was in a lot of "special classes" so that may have made a difference but when he was associating with "normal" kids he usually managed to make friends out of them so...maybe that helped to make a difference for him. Of course, when he was in school kids were being taught a lot more about being kind to those who are different from you so that probably helped to. A lot of those "normal" kids also helped in his classes so they were well exposed to the differences of the physically and/or mentally challenged. My son became "Just J---" which was an attitude that I really appreciated seeing because it meant that those kids were accepting him for who he was, as he was.

When I was in school they had ISS (in school suspension) It was no picnic you had to do your school work, you ate lunch in there and you got a bathroom break in the morning and one in the afternoon. There was no talking in the classroom and if you did you got more days in there.

Bullying is a national epidemic and not just among kids. One need look no further than the comments on newsvine. People say whatever they want with no consideration for the feelings of others and no concern of how they will be perceived. People troll through articles just so they can blame the president (or Fox News or whoever) for everything. This isn't about expressing an opinion or debating ideas - it's all about name-calling and insults. Adults are no longer polite or kind to each other in person and they're far worse in cyberspace. Until we all decide to be considerate and civil to each other we have no chance of ending bullying.

I don't think this is anything new - it's just that the web has increased communication to a such a degree that now everyone knows about it. People are used to wearing masks and showing different faces to different groups, but when everyone's connected that doesn't work so well.

I treat offline and online the same - I don't believe in anonymity unless my actual safety or security is at stake. I only wish that more people thought that way.

@Anonymous Insight: That was absolutely beautiful! Wish I could think of something to add, but I feel you covered it all too well. If only more people had have told me some of that when I was young, I could have skipped a lot of miserable depression and regained my life sooner. Sadly, I had to learn the truth of your words the hard way.

To any currently bullied kids who might be reading, take a long hard look Anonymous Insight's post and take it to heart. It's truly important information.

Sorry hampster, the tort system now in effect will not allow teacher's to do their job when it comes to bullies. When society starts holding parents responsible for their bully kids and shift the tort system will this chit stop. Or better yet cane the bullies, use corporal punishment on the bastards.

the really really sad thing about this, is that the school is most likely afraid of negative consequences if or when they punish bullies, they are usually the ones whose parents themselves were either bullies or they encourage their children in this behaviour and they are very loud when it comes to defending their offspring's "honor", or they refuse to believe anything bad about them. the day the gov't stopped corporeal punishment in the school started a domino effect. kids know they can get away wit(literally) murder. PARENTS, TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO BE GOOD PEOPLE. correct them when they are wrong and don't believe every single word out of their mouths, believe me, they aren't the angels you think they are

Hampster... I believe you should re word your post.. It’s not so much that the teachers and administrators WONT do anything.... there really is very little they CAN DO any more... Corporal punishment is either outlawed or an "un holy sin" according to some... The teachers and administrators are pretty much powerless to do anything anymore, and that’s why there are so many problems in schools and with children...

Spare the rod and spoil the child... used to be the rule... Well... we started sparing the rod... and now look at the mess we have... Now kids get punished by going to "time out"??? What kind of punishment is that? Sit in the corner and don’t do your school work... do you really think that is punishment for someone who probably doesn't want to do their work in the first place? Or sent to sit in detention... again, what kind of punishment is that?? I spent many an hour in detention (BTW, I’m not a bully, in fact, I was bullied EVERY DAY from Kindergarten till My senior year in High school) so at least I have some idea how these kids feel... I also have a saying that may help someone considering suicide.... I came upon it at a dark moment of my life when I was considering that as an alternative...

"Life never gets better if you're not there to see it"

If our school teachers and administrators could administer corporal punishment like they could when I went to school, you’d see allot more well behaved children.
When I was in school, you didn't even have to send the kid to the principal to get "licks"; the teachers could just take you out in the hall and whale away... I know it did wonders for "MY" attitude.... You will remember the pain of getting your ass paddled, you will remember the humiliation, and you will remember the laughter of your classmates when you walk back into the room trying to hold back tears.... Those things you will remember... detention, or time outs, you forget by the next class, or you look at it as time to catch a few winks, or maybe some quite time to think through all the crap your gonna pull in your next class.
Suspension... that's pretty useless too.. If your parents work, it's a free day to whatever you want... take my word for it; I used to get suspended at least once a month. Of course I realize that they do have in school suspension now... not sure how that works, but it sounds like a good place to do your homework (if you are so disposed), which will give you plenty of time for trouble making after school.

You see, it’s kind of like the laws that govern Juveniles... you can pretty much get away with anything until you are 18, and the kids know this... Kill someone, you get to go to Juvie for a while.. But in most cases the law can’t touch you because you are a minor... Steal a car... again Juvie... and a clean record once you are 18.. Well in most cases... The kids know this... Paddle your child at home... they'll probably call child protective services on you... “I” would never have dreamed of doing that to MY parents.
Is there any wonder why our kids are out of control? NO EFFECTIVE DISCIPLINE = NO RESPECT FOR ATHORITY = BAD BEHAVIOR and so on.

Im not advocating the “beating” of children, that’s wrong period, but you don’t have to beat a child to discipline them, My father used a Frat Paddle on me… “bend over and grab your ankles son” and I knew all to well, when I did something wrong, id be meeting “the board of education”. And it worked quite well for me.

All this kinder gentler BS and trying to make EVERYBODY happy is just useless... Some parents do nothing to discipline their children, the schools can do nothing to very little, the police do what they can, which in most cases isn’t much... granted Juvie isn't a good place to be, and for some it does the trick, but sadley to say for a majority, it just takes a punk kid, and makes them into a real criminal.... So again, maybe we need to re visit the old Spare the rod, spoil the child issue. YA think?

GDI - violence is a cycle. One person is attacked, hurt, in pain. And that leads to anger and hatred. And they in turn find someone else to take it out on, someone weaker and vulnerable to them. And then that victim finds their own, and so on and so forth.

How do you teach children to not be violent by using violence on them? It's setting the wrong example. You don't need to be an adult to understand complete hypocrisy.

Physical abuse from parents leads to all sorts of horrible things. You turned ok, but that makes you the exception, not the rule.

Well Michael... I was raised on corpral punishement, and Im not violent, of course my parents also did a good job of teaching me right and wrong, along with many other things that have made me a decent human being as an adult... also, there is a BIG difference between physical abuse and discipline... but I guess lots of people dont know that.

Paddleing, or spanking is not physical ABUSE... it is a from of Discipline, ei correcting someone when they do something wrong.

But as for Pysical Abuse... and the cycle created by it.. I agree 100%

Paddling and spanking aren't abuse, but to Michael's point, it does send a mixed message.

This is an anecdote, not evidence, but I was raised by parents who changed their mind about corporal punishment midstream. I was spanked, my sister was spanked until age 6 or so, but not after, and my younger brother was never spanked.

We're all respectful, functional members of society and I don't think the form the discipline takes is the important thing. Parents need to be willing to discipline in a firm and consistent matter, period, no matter how they do it.

As a former teacher, I can tell you the teacher's hands are tied. I once told a parent what was going on with her child being bullied but told her NOT to tell the principal I told her as i would catch he!! What did she do? told the principal and I got in trouble. I don't really regret it as the bully was exspelled(6th grade) but my life was he!! the rest of the year with a principal who told me I should keep my mouth shut. By the way, the bully's parents were so smoked up they did not even know where they were when they came to a conference.

Hope you reported that principal to the school district, and on up.

Here's a map about the corporate punishment in the USA> Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States.svg

Well Michael... I was raised on corpral punishement, and Im not violent, of course my parents also did a good job of teaching me right and wrong, along with many other things that have made me a decent human being as an adult... also, there is a BIG difference between physical abuse and discipline... but I guess lots of people dont know that.

GDI, my parents decided corporeal punishment was a terrible idea pretty early on in my life, and I have a strong set of principles and ethics. Corporeal punishment isn't necessary, and is very easily abused. Positive reinforcement is just as if not more potent than negative reinforcement.

Mentor can be a challenging place...I had a friend with an accent who tried to make a hotel reservation there, and heard there were no rooms available. I called (accent-free)shortly thereafter and had no problem, there were quite a few rooms. Why did my friend not hear the same thing? ah, well, uhm...the clerk said, there must have been a misunderstanding.

TRAGIC teen stories.

Zero tolerance for any kind of bullying........................

after the second offense the parents are held accountable as well as the student.....................

third offense and the student is out for good in that school district and the parents must pay for costs that may be incurred by the victim for therapy as a result of the ABUSE of their student.

ZERO TOLERANCE.............ALL held accountable....students, teachers and parents...............expulsion....firings....fines.

It won't stop until the abusers are feeling the pain they themselves cause others.

NO PAIN NO GAIN.

Debbie. THAT IS PERFECT!!

Good idea, Debbie. Voted up!

actually what needs to happen if a student is caught bullying or proven to be bullying is the get suspended, 2nd offense, expulsion. getting a good education is a right for everyone, but it is also a privilege, and bullying teens should lose that privilege.

Debbie, the problem is, schools have zero tolerance today. . .only they punish the victim as well.

They don't take any crap and will punish all involved. That is BS.

You just try to defend yourself or push a bully away. BOOM! You get the same punishment as the bully. The bully doesn't give a damn that they got in trouble. The victim probably does. So much for building confidence in a kid. You're only options are to run or get the crap beaten out of you.

But as for the fine thing, I like that.

Agreed. Someone shoved my son, he reacted instinctively and accidentally broke the persons arm. Guess who got in trouble. I was called by several teachers. They told me they had multiple students that saw the incident and my son reacted after he was shoved while standing at the top of the stairs, but policy required that my son receive a suspension. My son is not a bully, but is a BB. They spar a lot and develop reflexes.

my son was bullied by a troop of 5 boys..............after he cooperated with the school and still was accosted I told the principal that he was free to defend himself in any way needed, as the school did not, and if if happened again or if my son got in trouble for defending himself I would sue the school for NOT enforcing their NO TOLERANCE RULE for the months and months we had come to them for protection...........................I had all the reports ( get documentation of each instance of your child being accosted) and I told them that a lawyer would have a field day with them..................................it stopped immediately.

Three weeks later I found out that there were at least 10 other students experiencing the same thing.............................schools love to make parents believe that they are the ONLY ones experiencing things---ask around, you and your student are not the only ones..and there is power in numbers---2 or more is very powerful.

Only problem is now if you fight like we did in the '60's and 70's, instead of shaking hands and letting all be back to normal, you have to worry about them coming back and shooting you or worse...

RD - Today instead of bullying left at school it has been pushed out into cyberspace and now they bully online which can be extremely harmful because if that child is sitting alone and on the internet reading this stuff, it could be fatal. I was bullied by girls when I was younger especially in Jr. High. Having red-hair and freckles, I was an easy target. Even today, I deal with self-esteem issues so it can last even after you are adult.

Speaking of support systems: This would be a good time for parents to tell their children, "If you are ever bullied at school, you have my permission to fight back. But it had better be someone your size or bigger. I had better not find out you hit someone smaller than you. Other than that, you have my permission to defend yourself, even if it gets you suspended. I will back you. You are that important to me."

hellalujah- The only thing I would add you might also want to teach your child how to defend themselves or enroll them in some sort of martial arts class. Otherwise, spot on!

Ken E - you advocate fighting the bullies. Problem is, a lot of them are much bigger and stronger than the people they bully. A lot of times, the victims who finally retaliate against the bullies get in more trouble than the bullies do.

They need to be taught that if the bullying gets out of hand they must defend themselves. The worst thing we have done in this country is to vilify a kid for socking another kid in the nose after they say something that is out of line. This is when kids learn the lesson of respect. You have to do it.

I stood up to kids in the new school i went to for 6th grade, and then again in 9th. All I had to do was kick someones arse and everyone knew that I was not a push over.

I don't think being made fun of for being a "city kid" in any way compares to being constantly ridiculed and hazed for being a foreigner in a new country or for your sexuality.

And in what way exactly does society tell kids it's "worth committing suicide?" I'm curious.

Unfortunately in these PC times, kids aren't "supposed" to be taught these things. It's gotten ridiculous.

I don't advocate just going around punching anyone that annoys you or hurts your feelings, but with kids who are bullies, sometimes that's all they understand, and once a "weak" kid who has had enough knocks the crap out of a bully, the other kids often think twice about bullying him or her again. Kids have to learn to defend themselves and stand up for themselves, without violence, if possible, but again, I think it's necessary to get the message across sometimes.

ethotex, that is a very simplistic answer, not all kids that are bullied have the strength or willpower to fight back, it certainly doesn't mean they should be bullied, the school needs the power to help take care of the issue.

The bullying kids are going through in school today is a far cry from what happened 30 years ago when I was in high school. When bullying went on then it was face to face. Today, in the Internet era, there is no escape and now way to fight many times. How do you stand up to the anonymous Internet posters? How do you find them.

My daughter graduated last year and was bullied non-stop from middle school through high school. She did learn to stand up for herself, but it also took many trips to school officials and for a brief while even being walked to class by campus security because her life was being threatened.

To say these kids just need to toughen up and stand up for themselves is naive. And when they do break and do stand up for themselves, they often are the ones who are expelled from school for violence.

The change needs to come from adults, especially those who think we all went through it and survived. Its a different world out there today.

i think it all goes back to the parents, who are sue happy and think their darlings can do no wrong. can I take them back behind the barn for a lesson?

When I was a kid, fights happened. I don't remember anyone getting sued, seriously injured, or even actually suspended. maybe sent home for the day. Yes, there was bullying back in the day, but there were more natural checks and balances in the school yard than there are now.

Schools need the firepower to be more hardnosed so they can bounce and punish kids. learning to conform to the schools rules is part of learning to fit in society... what we're teaching them is if you sue and complain loudly, you get what you want eventually, so that rules don't really matter.

The bullies gain the upper hand in an atmosphere of entitlement and fear. No one, school admin and teachers included, wants to be the one to rock the boat and feel the wrath of the parents that spawned that little demon. because you know the odds are with it that they learned that behaviour from home...

The kids may not have the power, but we can't look to the government, in this case the school, to solve every problem for us. We now expect our schools to perform dozens of different functions each day for our children including feeding them breakfast, sex education, non bullying education, drug and alcohol awareness, proper manners...etc. The list goes on and on. How about we start parenting???!!! I grill my kids daily on what they did in school, who they talked to, how their friends are doing. Let's stop blaming the schools for every problem our child has.

Jordan

I wouldn't say society tells kids that its worth it to commit suicide, but society sure glamorizes death and the attendant attention that the dead receive afterwards.

I have always taught my kids that they shouldn't start anything but that I would stand by them 100% if they needed to stand up for themselves against bullying. The problem is that they are not allowed to stand up for themselves. The school says if they are being picked on that they are supposed to "hug" the kid who is picking on them until an adult shows up to handle the situation. Really?!?!? My son did not follow that policy and stood up against a bully that had been picking on him all year. Not only was he suspended from school for a week but the school called the police and he was charged with misdemeanor fighting in public (he was 12 at the time). He was read his rights and then released into my custody. 3 months later I received a letter from the juvenile court saying that they would not pursue the charges but what a total circus act. I don't think we can ever stop bullying but when we take away a kid's power to stand up for himself/herself then the school (or the government, or the police department) only adds to the bullied child's sense of helplessness. I praised my son for standing up for himself. Sometimes you have to push back.

redjoe,

I don't want the schools to have non bullying education, I do want the schools to moniter and prevent bullying. When my kid goes to school, I expect him to be there getting an education not being there having to avoid bullies. I think that school officials and teachers should be out and about and knowing what is going on in the school. If even one child is being bullied it needs to be stopped. My nephew tells me that the eighth grade kids like to grab the smaller 7th grade kids and fight them in the locker rooms. I asked him where the coach was and he told me in his office. How come he doesn't know crap like this is going on. Joseph is in the 7th grade and helped defend his cousin who is smaller than he is. I think that this kind of stuff is wrong and that the schools need to be patrolled by staff and this kind of crap stopped. One thing is that the eighth grade kids are black and they only try to grab the small white kids. If it was reversed the school would be all over it.

I don't think race matters to bullies. The violent history of this Country makes that crystal clear; do you think? The fact that no Blacks were involved in the stories that have recently come to National attention should tell us all something: Bullying is not a race issue; it is something more sinister than than that...

IF the bullies are bigger than the victim, hope the victim carries some kind of liquid acid to throw on them. Self defense is necessary and liquid is a great defense mechanism. Put it in a water pistol and go for the eyes! Unfortunately, you have to show these creeps that they will lose.

etothex

The worst thing we have done in this country is to vilify a kid for socking another kid in the nose after they say something that is out of line.

You are absolutely wrong. We should all defend ourselves (and teach our children the same) if physically attacked, but if you advocate violence as a response to words (even hurtful words) you are part of the problem.

@atheismo - hardly, you are absolutely wrong. If a kid said he would rape my daughter and then my daughter knocked him out or kicked him in the nuts, I would take her to Chuck E. Cheese not punish her.

Mark if you don't like America, you are free to move to another country, why don't you try Iran.

I hear you Mark. I grew up in Canada. However, bullying doesn't make America suck. The fact that we value stuff, money, status and appearances above all else makes us suck. That we are churning out crappy high school graduates but sing our own praises about how smart we are and how our graduation rates are improving makes this country suck. We believe our own propoganda. It's really pathetic.

Hey Ken, if you like America so much, why don't you go to Canada and find out why their educational system is NOT plagued with problems like ours and then come back and sing America's praises.

No - I understand what he's saying. People come to America for a better life and have this happen to their children. It is embarassing.

First I don't think this article was about immigrants...

Secondly Troy I LOVE THIS COUNTRY! I fought for it and support it. I may not agree with the politics, the processes and other things we do, but I love it!!

We may not have the perfect society, but what country does? You like Canada's education system, good for you. I am sure there is no corruption or bullying in Canada....really? Come on be realistic.

I'm embarrassed.

I wish I could go call another place home but if I leave my tribe strips me of my tribal affiliation.

Maybe the country sucks because we now justify violence and react with self-righteous revenge. Reacting with violence only creates more violence. To deny this is folly.

In 2010, Americans prefer gossip over facts; we have lowered our own standards of conduct. Just look at what sells and what our society now values! Garbage in, garbage out. Just as politicians reflect who we are as a people in Congress, our kids are reflecting who we are as they grow; we set examples whether we intend to or not. America needs some major mental health treatment if our children are not respecting themselves or others. Kids learn most from the examples of their parents - take a close look at the parents of those who bully and you will find the root of the problems. We even have coaches in team sports for little kids who are teaching them to jab, kick, trip, and win by unsportmanship practices, all with parental consent! What has happened to honor?

All American adults need to step back and take a close, emotionally honest look at ourselves and ask ourselves if we are accepting the responsibility for our own actions and for the examples we set for our own children and the children of our communities.

Hey you should move to Europe, where the immigrants bully the natives.

Especially muslim kids.

Unfortunately a problem for years now and I will just say immigrants do take over towns and neighborhoods bringing their own problems with them from their original countries.

Unfortunately under zero tolerance weapons policies just carrying the spray could get her expelled.

I teach all 3 of my girls how to fight both street fighting and I have them enrolled in Karate class I'll be damed if my kid gets bullied to death I will be the first one to not only stand up for my child but I will make sure she dishes out the same punishment she recieved. I will be just like that dad on the school bus....I would put the fear of God in any bully and willingly go to jail AND wont apologize for any of it.

Good for you. May years ago i had that edge and was forever thankful for that. The most useful thing dad ever taught me was police style holds. If I could get the other guys arm, the fight was going to be over. Whip it up around behind them and force the hand up to the head. you're in control and most of the time they're suprised and squealing.

It's also why I probably never got sent home for a fight. I wouldn't start it, but I sure as hell knew how to end it.

S--t. Let a principal send my daughter home for carrying pepper spray. I'll tell the a--hat that does that right to his face that, hey, look at what's happening in school these days. Piss off, I'm protecting my child.

For that matter, this all depends on if she goes to a public school anyway. :/

Yes Mom, I am also worried about my grandchildren and what kind of future they are going to have if this keeps up.

My daughter just turned a year old, and reading all of this makes me terrified of putting her in public school. But I work long shifts, sometimes 72 hours, and I can't be home to home-school her, but we can't afford private school, either. So it's either my husband stays home and educates her, or she HAS to go to public school. Or I keep going to school and kill myself for an M.D. Which I might do anyway, just to make sure that by the time my daughter goes to High School, we have enough money to make sure she can get into a private one.

To Anindividual, you've hit the nail on the head, and I echo your sentiments. Parents, and all adults in general, need to behave like adults and take adult responsibility for their own choices. As adults, we all need to think first before we act ... that is what really teaches children.

TheAddy -

I would strongly recommend putting your daughter in a self defense school like Karate or something similar at the earliest age possible. It's not that expensive and it could save her life one day. At least it will giver her a chance that she wouldn't otherwise have. Check around your town to see what's available. Go to the Dojo and talk to the people there just for the heck of it. You may be surprised at what you see and hear.

Not forever! I don't remember ANY bullying in the 60's and I never heard of much bullying when my kids were in school in the 80's and 90's. It seems to have happened in the last 10-15 years. Perhaps in the inner cities earlier than that. But I grew up in the city! And we ALL towed the line. If we got in trouble in school, we would be in more trouble when we got home.

It is so sad. I cannot understand how children got so mean and so disrespectful of others. It seems like there is not enough respect for the teachers any longer..

To former Virginia, there was some bullying in my schools in the 60's and 70's, but it was definitely not obvious to the school officials. When the staff became aware of it, they did something about it. Teachers have to be very careful now about disciplining students, and I think that causes them to look the other way most of the time. Children have to know there are consequences for their behavior. If the teachers' and principals' hands are tied by legislation, then there's only so much they can do to gain respect in the schools. A healthy amount of fear is a good tool to learning respect for your elders. It worked for my generation.

Unfortunately, "tolerance" cuts both ways. It's tolerance that allows this bullying behavior to continue. A healthy amount of shame and guilt is a good thing, and it should be shameful by society's standards to lack empathy for others. The way it is, though, is that we (as a society) say we value tolerance, kindness and empathy, but just look at what is coming out of Hollywood ... violence, violence, violence. That shows you what we really value ... it doesn't matter how the violence is candy-coated with a moral to the story ... the point is, people enjoy the violence. As long as that is the case, there's very little that can be done to get through to youngsters. The best that can be hoped for is to watch them closely and quickly discipline them when they start going down the wrong path. But then, the legal system has made it almost impossible for school staff to discipline children except for suspending them ... and in my day, that was hardly a punishment ... more like a vacation. We've got to stop worrying so much about the bully's rights and focus on the what is morally right and wrong. Bullying should be made to seem shameful at school and in society. Adults need to start behaving like adults and take some responsibility for how their choices affect the children in their care.

One problem: that would require the parents of these little brats to actually be paying attention to them. And giving a rats a--.

"Great idea, except now when they stand up for themselves, which I agree would be great, they are the ones who get suspended or kicked out of school, not the bullies."

Sad, but true. If your grades start to suffeer due to bullying, then getting punished for defending yourself will just add to it. It's a lose-lose situation.

I agree that the system is screwed up. I just hate the American mentality of sue, sue, sue. Money in this case is completely useless. If I gave you a million dollars for your dead kid, would you feel better (careful answering that one!). And the school system...it is big business like everything else. It will take a hit and then just move right along.

What we need is education for educators and eduction for parents. A lawsuit is a "legal" act of retaliation. While sanctioned by our system of government, it is just another way to hit someone. We need to be careful that in our distress we don't become like the thing we are fighting against.

You're absolutely right Troy, what these kids needed was the right to bear arms, that way there wouldn't be no need to sue, sue, sue--we just take the law into our own hands. Only pansy liberals oppose the arming of every man, woman or child. Guns is what made 'Merica great, and guns will be the salvation of the survivors. Viva le Tea Party!

Did you never hear that violence begets violence? Those who live by violence are more likely to die by it. Is that what you want? Nuts. You've got to be kidding.

STOP THINKING ABOUT THE POLITICS! This happens in spite of both sides! Jebus! Can't people think about the next generation for a change?

I'm 26, and PISSED at what my elders have left for people my age, and for my children. And I'm fighting as hard as I can to make it better for my baby. I only wish people had thought of us before this whole mess started.

ITS NOT RIGHT vs. LEFT. It's about what's RIGHT!

I agree TheAddy. This is much more basic than a partisan issue, it is a survival issue and a human dignity issue. We can do better than this. There are volunteer programs for retired people (especially former teachers) to help with supervising and tutoring young folks at the schools, also Ameri-corps has a senior volunteer program and some of the projects have to do with literacy improvement and other tutoring and activities. It would be nice to see some empty nesters helping working parents out in the afternoons in our communities and many parents are still getting those higher degrees in night school, stretched too thin by the demands of our society, to be three places at once and worried about your child!

It is a horrible feeling. A parent must feel safe to function...if not, it is time for Mom to be a house wife and forget about all the effort, if she is being used as a pawn by this society and damage being done to her children by others. She should consider staying at home and have a right to her choice to make sure her children get the quality care necessary especially in the early years. What are we really racing after, a better quality life for our loved ones, by not being around and paying half our salary to child care, that is crazy! It seems we may be defeating the purpose of quality life and yet the stay at home Mom has been put down and made to feel guilty until some have recently made their case and stood up for it again...a Mom is many things and works 24/7...doesn't get paid for the job and is not appreciated or given proper credit for all that she is and does.

In the old days Moms did not have this pressure nearly as much, it is all about the money, the economy as they say. Now, where it only took one breadwinner, it takes two to afford the same standard of living. Our definition of work is changing and our technologies too. We should not be so hard on ourselves or each other and our technologies should actually be freeing us up time-wise, not ripping us off. It is a time of changing definitions and values and we need to keep the good, not be fooled by the bad. Again, principles like the golden rule, manners, hygiene, and other basic character traits are from lessons that come from a loving home. If Mom is juggling between a full time job and night classes to get ahead as a breadwinner, she is not there to provide the time to know her kids in the detail of their daily changes and attitudes about their lives as they get settled in and their feelings and issues go unattended. They get the feeling they are not important, not good enough, rejected by the one that is most important to them in the world, MOM. Mom is feeling overwhelmed by all the adult pressures and her own needs. Those early attitudes and inner thoughts and habits get set in and can be there for life if not altered or dealt with.

One of my children never sucked her thumb at home for her entire babyhood, at three years old I put her in daycare while in college, and she began to suck her thumb - learned it from another kid there and she had a terrible habit for a few more years that was impossible to break until she grew out of it. It messed up her teeth and cost me dental care bills down the line. I really could have done without that. But more than physical, I worried about my child's fears, can you remember being homesick when little? So we do have the separation anxiety and other problems and insecurities that can set in and create later psychological patterns and problems.

A parent must check out the environment of care and learning she chooses, and be assured that the quality and safety of that daycare center or school is sufficient, alsocheck in frequently to observe and confer with the teachers and daycare workers. There are problems and pressures these days on the teachers to follow certain procedures and policies. It may have become too intimidating and arbitrary, ie. a teacher is afraid of a reprimand for doing something outside of the proper best practices. This really squashes creativity in teachers to teach a fast lesson in the moment, such as good sportsmanship in a spontaneous event, or decisions about whether to report something or get involved with something rather than let it slide. The fear of losing one's job these days is a big problem for many. Unfortunately, the attitude now is that teachers are a dime a dozen and can be easily replaced. Many teach adjunct part-time or substitute and are not tenured with benefits. There are more teachers out there than jobs.

The decisions that young mothers are making are based on different times and conditions than we had in the past. I would say to be very aware of the unique local social and physical environment and to take all the present factors into consideration when making arrangements and plans for your children's future, you will be the one to guide their destiny and to shape their attitudes about what they are exposed to in their formative years. We are long overdue on placing more attention and funding to our public schools, no one should be left behind (for real) or ostracised and all should be included in this amazing melting pot where all humans are created equal - our children are the great American Mix...a treasure of amazing beauty, strength and talent that too many self-centered and obsessed parental strivers are blind to. Quality is the key. As a parent you must stop and ask...What is the real quality of all this striving I am doing and how does it affect the quality of my child's life? If it is stressing you out or making you and your family ill, perhaps it is time to redefine your lifestyle and goals to create a more simple easy going existence allowing for more family time or the creation of a home schooling group in your neighborhood that provides a more personal quality experience that only those who truly care can provide.

Are you a slave to the status quo or can you downsize and budget to create a less showy yet more comfortable environment and steer funds toward an alternative learning set up? We can no longer define ourselves in the same old way. It is time to stop trying to live up to this or that and focus on one's own quality of experience ongoing. Life goes by you when you are making big plans and many times the dreamy plans or ego trips are long term illusions that never become actualized. In the meanwhile wake up and check out the daily do-able improvements in your current yard. When all is ship shape, everyone feels safe and content....and most of all, good enough already. People who feel good enough already, do not make trouble to get attention by aggressively bullying or belittling others to make themselves feel bigger and better.

Anon-

Bravo, and well said. How much better can we do when our focus is our children and not the latest big screen T.V and Viagra?

Robin Steele, if you think that a kid with a learning disability can learn martial arts to defend themselves, you do not 'have an elevator that reaches the top floor'.

fgh -

Obviously the learning disabled cannot defend themselves and should not be put into a situation where they would have to. I couldn't find Robin Steeles post so I don't know what was said.

Even though I strongly support having children start learning defensive skills at as early an age as possible, I also realize there are those who for whatever reason will not be able to do so. Most children with disabilities of that nature are kept in an environment that is supposed to be safe from dangers such as bullies but we all know that human nature makes it virtually impossible to protect them at all times. That is why it must be the responsibility of the care takers to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Like a say, I was unable to find the post you referred to so I cannot respond to what that person said. But it seems that your response may have been a little on the "bully-ish" side.

See how easy that trait comes out in us?

Is she was getting calls in the middle of the night they may have continued. Don't forget that she lives within the neighborhood of her classmates. Just because she's in school doesn't mean the bullying stopped.

Schools have a responsibility to protect kids. Parents have a responsibility to protect their kids and teach them to protect themselves.

This may be one side of a story, but it's a very sad one--sad enough that I really don't need to hear the other side. And I cannot and will not believe that you are siding with such heartless b*tches as the girls who would laugh at her. Unless of course you happen to be one of their parents. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

Agreed, What the.

If you live in the same neighborhood as a bully, the bully can find where you live. They can just torment you after/before school, etc.

That's exactly right. If bullies live in your neighborhood the only haven you have is inside your home. If you ever want a life you have to figure out a way to make a stand for yourself. Outside the school environment the parents can only do so much without crossing legal lines. If they touch the bully they can go to jail. Sucks, but that's the reality of it. If you call the cops and tell them a bully is picking on your child, there's a better than even chance that nobody will respond with all of the other "more important" issues they have to deal with. Luckily the police in our area do respond to calls of that nature.

I have a better solution than that; the government taught me how...

There's other ways out too -

For myself, I avoided bullying because I was simply disconnected from the vast majority of my peers. Not only was I an outcast, I wasn't even aware I was an outcast, nor would I have cared if I was. Physical bullying was cracked down on hard in my school, and I never really attracted that sort of attention.

I would love to see the parents of these bullies get interviewed, studied. See how much responsibility rests with them. In some cases, I would guess a lot. Most people in prison or jail had abusive or neglectful parents, dysfunctional families, family history of mental illness. That is the future of these bullies, continuing the cycle, eventually their ways winding them up in prison - if we're lucky. Some continue to get away with it their whole lives.

Some of them can be saved. Some are rotten to the core and beyond any hope.

Clearly, they don't care. Laughing over someone's casket.

Michael, I remember that a parent of one of the bullies who was involved in that Phoebe (can't remember her last name) case recently. This mother actually defended her daughter, stating the whole 'kids will be kids' and that it wasn't serious. Unbelievable. Just un-f-ing-believable.

Now that's what I'm talking about!

I love it when bullies get hurt bad. Thing you'd have to watch out for, is more retaliation. They're going to heal and come looking for payback. Where does it end? Ask Israel and Palestine.

Thats What Im talking about!!! when a 200Lbs come to be a bully Im pretty sure my kids will need A BAT! and they are not gonna come for more

NO BULLYS CAMPAING!

Xipotec, I don't feel that anyone who stated they stood up for themselves feels superior to this poor girl. She obviously did not have the support system she needed and was unwilling to stand up for herself.

The fact is that suicide is not the answer.

In case you haven't been around the U.S. not everyone in this country of "over priviledged, entitled or "God" fearing American youth" are bullies or want to cause harm to others. Why would you lump all of today's youth into one? Most kids just want to go to school and get educated.

Perhaps in your mind you see that it is ok to hate outright, it certainly is not for me or for my household, or my extended family, my friends or my community. Perhaps it is time that you get involved in your community and help make a difference.

Although I like your idea of a peaceful world, I never forget that we are humans and that our world as we know it has been built on destroying others, from individuals to societies, to countries. To condone it would be stupid, to accept it and move beyond it I think is the responsible thing to do.

I respect your comment Ken E. But I have seen these bullies first hand. To me they all seem to be cut from the same mold. They are usually the popular kids, they have a large group of friends to back them up, and they are heartless. They also project an innocent piety to adults around them. Again my experience only.

When I was speaking of the youth of America I was referring to the bullies, not everyone.

The issue again is tolerance and understanding. which is sorly lacking in our society today. Just look at the news headlines.

And BTW , you will soon see alot of posts from people saying, "well I was bullied, and I didn't kill myself" These people are negating the seriousness of this issue, and trying to bolster their own self esteem. Because this stories have NOTHING to do with them, only the poor families burying their children

Torturing someone until they kill themself is sick. People who derive pleasure from the suffering and torment of others are psychopaths, just like shrinks maintain, children who torture animals are displaying a symptom of a pathology of the human mind. Psychopaths have no conscience and feel no guilt when they torture others.

Bullying is this very pathology, deriving pleasure from the misery and torment of others is sick, anyway you slice it and dice it. And, sometimes, it backfires and goes the other way, just like at Columbine. Even a sweet dog will grown mean and bite back after he has been kicked over and over.

Bullies need psychotherapy, drugs or mental hospitals, and no one should ever consider suicide because they run into a sicko, psycho. This is when the individual remains strong and realizes, the bully is crazy; they are the real losers in life.

Suicide is always a tragedy, a failure of society and all her institutions, and if anyone believes suicides go to hell, they're worshiping the wrong religion and false gods. Parents, teach your children that bullies are psychos; they are the whack, nut jobs for abusing others.

parents of these bullies should be prosecuted and thrown to jail for the gruesome abnormality of their children. i applaud the parent who defended his daughter in the schoolbus. that's what every parent should do- get involved! the school won't waste extra time to deal with this issue, we parents should! i will do the same to protect my kids. i will confront these kids and teach them a lesson what real fear is!