You already had the right to health care! All you had to do was walk your local hospital or doctors office and you could get all of the medical attention you desired or chose to pay for. Just like you walk to BestBuy and buy the biggest flat panel you can buy on credit, while refusing to buy your own insurance policy. You socialist libs, you're liable to get what you ask for under this idiot Obama. I just wish the rest of us sensible Americans didn't have to suffer along with you when that does happen and it's realities begin to really settle in.

When you say health care is a right guaranteed by the governement, what you mean to say is your health care is something you, as a non-productive society leech, want every other working American to pay for. Why don't you just come out and also admit that you think the government should guarantee everyone who wants to work can have a job, and the rest will be taken care of by ... yes, the governement.

STexan: did you not just read the article? It stated that one in seven people are being denied coverage by the major for profit insurance companies, for pre existing conditions. what does this have to do with leeching off of the general public?

The way I see it, these for profit organizations are the ones creating the quagmire!

The issue at hand here, is these companies are scared to death that their massive profits are going to dry up. i predict they will because just as you say you can go into bestbuy and have a variety, when these monopolies are destroyed by nationwide health care the cost will be driven down. These people are just trying to rape the american people for as much as they can stow away before the hammer falls and you and your false thinking is allowing them to continue. You must be an exec for one of them! get yourself a brain and get off hannities band wagon. Think for yourself and realize what is right for humanity. no one is taking a handout from you.

IOW he hates the working poor who cant afford healthcare, and the unemployed who, because Wall Street is ready for record bonuses, got their jobs cut...let 'em die.

He's for socialism all right...socialism for the rich. Capitalism for working people.

STexan: What about the people who CAN afford health care but are DENIED by every insurance company because of a condition that's pre-existing? What about people who ARENT 'non-productive society leeches' as you put it that can't get insurance? I work a good job, I contribute to society, and I gladly give my 1% of my paycheck to help other people who can't afford insurance. I have insurance, but I'm denied coverage for my pre-existing condition, that I can't afford with out insurance coverage. Am I a leech for wanting the government to FORCE insurance companies to cover me and others like me so I don't end up paying so much in medical coverage I loose my house or my car and can no longer get to work?

Honestly, how self centered and dumb could you be to think you're immune to it all? That you're so much better because why? You think that having a job means you get covered for everything? I hope you get some annoying condition that requires you to be on medication for life and tests every 3 to six months, loose your insurance and have to pay out of pocket until 2014 and THEN you can tell the rest of us how stupid we are for asking the government to HELP people who are getting bent over and raped by insurance companies who just don't want to deal with it.

Obama has way overblown his criticism of insurance companies and implied government run stuff will solve everything. We can come up with just as many "government horror stories" if you looked into the VA health care system.

Obama has way overblown his criticism of insurance companies and implied government run stuff will solve everything. We can come up with just as many "government horror stories" if you looked into the VA health care system.

I wonder if everyone who extols the free market health care system would feel the same way if they were poor, had no insurance, and their child was dying of cancer. I somehow think their idealism would dry up pretty quickly.

STexan......You apparantly do not or choose not to understand the situation. Many people are not being allowed to buy health insurance. We are not talking about Medicaid here, we are talking about people who are willing to pay the $1200 to $1500 a month to buy health insurance and are denied because of a pre existing condition, that pre existing condition by the way would not be covered anyway ( under present or Obama program when it kicks in ) but these people are not allowed to buy and pay for insurance to cover other medical conditions that may arise.

STexan ran away from a fight, refusiing to defend his/her ridiculous statement. Must be a tea partier.

L8RG8R....laws allowing illegals and other freeloaders to get free emergency ( note it is emergency only ) health care, have been around for decades and have nothing to do with the new health care initiative. Fact is, the new health care initiative could in theory ( not likely to happen ) allow some of these people who are getting free emergency care to buy health insurance and actually pay into the premium pool so that taxpayers actually fund less of their care ! I don't see that they will be lining up to buy health insurance, but at least now it will be possible, where before it was not.

The Repubs just 8 years ago were preaching for single payer and ending pre-exiting exclusions. I sure hope after Nov. 2nd they'll stop sucking tea bags and get serious about our health crisis. BTW, the Repubs still need to man up for all of their burrowing and spending between 2000-2008. How can the Repubs get away with the hypocrisy is beyond me?

Nancy-2487006....please, we can't wait !

This is not about the right to get health care for free, it is about the right to buy and pay for insurance. It is also not about having health insurance pay for a pre existing condition ( it won't ) but about someone with a pre existing condition being allowed to pay the premium to cover other non pre existing conditions that might arise.

That Nancy is one angry, frustrated human being.

Bush,

For starters, health care is not a right. And nobody is arguing that we shouldn't have it. In fact, most of us actually believe that we should. What we are arguing is that business shouldn't be forced to pay for it. It is not a zero cost idea. You can't blame business for not hiring when we don't know the costs. Ever heard of "don't bite the hands that feed you"?

How about a tariff on imports, making imports more expensive, reducing outsourcing, increasing US hiring, and using the tariff money to pay for social programs such as healthcare. Couple that with the fact that China has an export tax which is basically a reverse tariff on things we buy......

"We can come up with just as many "government horror stories" if you looked into the VA health care system."

Yes, we've all heard about the VA hospital nightmares caused by the Bush administration's refusal to care for our veterans. That is truly a disgrace, especially since they caused so many of the injuries.

A more caring administration is currently cleaning that mess up.

Just wait for all the cards haven't been played by OBAMA yet for you will see rationing of health care in the future===just wait and see for OBAMA CARE will not work plus firearms bill is included in the HEALTH CARE bill. When your done laughing go to the bathroom you will need it.

Ellie,

There is already rationing of health care. Its called denial by the health care industry. If anything they invoke death panels more then any government entity would.

Health insurance claim denials rose by half in recent years

I told all of you that this would happen.

Bush Bankruptcy - ....it is an American right.

Show me in the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights that "it is an American Right".

Bush Bankruptcy -Obama did the right thing.

For himself and the Demoncraps with his closed door "secret" meetings at the White House. President Obama's Insurance Scam passed just in time for Campaign Contributions for the November 2010 Elections.

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

It is like I stated before GET THE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS OUT OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION.

During the Great Depression (similar to Unemployment now), President FDR instituted Real Universal Health Care by eliminating the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession. The Result was an 80% Decrease in Medical Treatment Costs. One of the last vestiges of this is what Congress gets for $42 per month. And do not even come up with the uninformed baloney about the Health Care Insurance Exchanges that Congress gets as those are special Insurance Rates for Political Favors that even the Insurance Corporation Employees cannot get.

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video, 1:40) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Coming up next. Those that were previously Uninsured that must buy Insurance or face fines or possible prison under President Obama's Insurance Scam are automatically placed into the highest risk (unaffordable) Insurance Category.

Bush Bankruptcy,

you very screen name states that you do not know anything, the proof:

1. The Wars. UN Missions. 1980s US Military Involvement with Iraq (Iran Iraq Wars) and Afghanistan (Senator Charles Wilson, Democrat Texas, Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen). Note if you want to decrease the US Military Budget by 50% eliminate all the US Civilian Jobs in the US Military. That will throw about a few million US Civilians on Unemployment.

2. Elimination of those Laws to prevent another 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression. This legalized the causes of the Global Depressions, so now here we are again with the same causes causing the "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Financial Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Mortgage Crisis", "Credit Crisis" etc. of 60-100 Trillion USDs. This will also allow the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs to occur.

3. You clearly do not know who "Mr. Corporate America" is. Hints: Former Senator from Delaware, previously former Senator from Coal State of Pennsylvania (as to why you will NEVER have "Alternative Energy"). Had his people brief the US Supreme Court about Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions, to prevent the 2008-2009 from becoming Invalid for violations of the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act). His constituents were the Bailout Babies. As the Democraptic Party Controlled Congress passed the November December 2008 Billion USDs Bailouts as "Time Sensitive" just in time to buy the January 2009 Electoral College Votes. August 2010 he was fined $200,000 for violations of the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act).

4. Over 23 Million Illegal Aliens, sucking 1/8th of most US Taxpayer (State and Federal) Funds.

ETC.

yeah, and if you left wing nut cases beleive this info prior to the election I have a senate seat I would like to sell you....so naive to think this data being released at this time is accurate or intended for elections. Funny how Obama wants detente with big business and called off the moratorium on gulf drilling and exploration with major caveates just prior to the election. Dam, he almost sounds Republican at this point. So are some of the Demacrat hopefuls running for office. I heard a debate in North Carolina yesterday and the Dem candidate talked the Republican talking points almost as though she were a conservative. Bet that will hold up if she gets a seat and meets with Reid or Pelosi. they are all LIERS.

There is nothing anyone can post as a reply that can justify allowing suffering for the satisfaction of Greed that is demonstrated by the insurers and the insane extreme Republicans.
Can any person with the ability to read my reply surely and without any reservation say that a person should suffer from disease , injury and / or illness if that person is without insurance or the ability to obtain medical care for lack of money?

If you can, then I refer you to and thus relegate you and your abject insanity to the realm of the likes of Herman Goering and the Third Reich -- too dispense life and death in eternity-- in insanity.

From what I've learned about Obama's plan to insure people with pre-existing conditions is that there are only a certain number of slots open for those people so not everyone in that boat is automatically going to be insured, and it will cost upwards from $450.00 to $900.00 a month. AND you have to wait until 2014???

No, STexan, that's like me walking into a bestbuy and trying to buy a TV with cash, and they deny me saying they only accept credit cards.

BTW, I follow articles on newsvine, and I've seen both you and others copy and paste that same argument, word for word, many times. Please come up with some new material.

cgw tex, play the fascist card all you want; grandfathering people into the system is one thing but destroying healtcare in America is another. The democrat healtcare bill is forcing people out of coverage, medicaid and medicare are denying meds and driving doctors from the system, rates are skyrocketing, hospitals are going closing, emergency rooms are overtaxed and underpaid and the bill isn't fully effective for 2-4 more years. This is the left forcing people into the arms of the benevolent big brother. Get it right. There are few things in this bill that were ok. Many of us wanted them to take this slower and create a better system, not a revamped govt program. But your party wants the whole enchilada so to speak. I think you know what I mean. They buy votes with our tax money.

Ya know, I was reading the Constitution and I couldnt find ANYWHERE where it says that people have the right to health care! ITS NOT A RIGHT! I saw the post that says you can walk into Best Buy and buy the nicest flatpanel TV you can afford. Health care is the same way. Why should a homeless person be allowed to have a huge flatpanel TV without paying for it? Tell me, why? Huh? I didnt hear you. @!$%#ing libs. YOU can pay for their health care! I already pay for mine!

Healthcare is not a right and you can get all you want when you pay for it. Just like an insurance company turns down people with bad driving records for insurance.

A Companies first responsibility is to it's stockholders. These are private insurance Companies and are in business to make money. They did not incorporate and start to be a social welfare program for the public-that is the Gov's job. Just as any business can refuse service to an individual.

It is not the Public's fault that you can't afford to pay your Doctor bills and it is not the job or responsibility of everyone to see that you get care. If I have to pay for your health care will you come and mow my lawn or do other chores for me. Why not I'm paying for your healthcare.

Why is it that everyone who doesn't want to work for something in this Country thinks everyone else should pay for them. Get a job as a cashier in a supermarket they have healthcare or even McDonalds has healthcare for it's full time workers. But you feel this is beneath you but it is not beneath you to live off of my back.

A right?????? Health care is a right you moron???? Where in the constitution does it say you have a right to health care????? And who is to provide that right???? Me?? Any doctor you walk up to claiming he must treat you or your rights will be violated???????????? What an idiot!!

Naturally these numbers would come about when insurers see what is about to happen. Unethical, very much so, savvy business move, yet another head nod. I'm not saying it's right, but these are cash in before they get cashed out moves. Stack a few chips before everyone starts to dip. The problem with the new health care agenda that is coming down anal lane is that people are scared, rightfully so. The elected officials did not read it and they stated “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy"---Pelosi. That is reckless even if it creates a utopia that has everyone living 100 years or more because it sets a bad precedent. I don't want to see younglings or the poor forced to go through life sickly, but at the same time at the very least the inner workings, details, and new direction should have been explained clearly.This pass a massive turd, and sift through it to see if it's good fecal matter....stops. No more of this, its the type of behavior that generates distrust and volatility.

All you liberals and progressives keep whining about who needs medical care and who pays for it...well if your only excuse for being forced to pay for health care is because insurance co. are making huge profits then you should actually look up what industries actually earn the most...you might be surprised to learn that the medical industry makes the least on average

The medical industry "makes the least on average" because what you are referring to are profits. Profits do NOT include exorbitant salaries nor do they include bureaucratic waste. We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world because 1/3rd of all money spent goes towards nothing other than processing insurance claims. One would think that all the big proponents of market efficiency would have a serious problem with this, and the simple fact that every single payer government medical system processes things more efficiently than our free market system.

The health industry always seems to make profits in the range of 2-4%. No other industry is capable of consistently hitting the numbers in this range. This, in of itself is suspicious..until you realize that, basically, they just pull out pretty much as much cash as they can get away with. That's what it really is about.

More liberal propaganda. Pregnancy as a pre-existing condition? That made me laugh so hard.

New requirements begin Jan 2011. Because my company is on a fiscal year beginning Oct 1, we had to modify all of our insurance electives to meet the impending legal requirements. To put it simply, I now have to pay 50% more in premiums each week for less coverage and higher deductables...and God forbid I ever have a hospital stay, because I'll be another $8,000 out of pocket before insurance starts to help, which is 4 times what I would have had to pay before.

I have LESS insurance now for 50% more money as a direct result of this healthcare reform. So let's hear all the PRO's explain how this is better. That money's got to be going somewhere, but all I know is it should have gone home with me.

I imagine that as more companies go through this, the rose-colored view of this health car package that some are still holding onto will begin to fade.

What's funny here, the people who are against the "Obama Care" probably haven't been hurt by the present system.

My wife and I make over 100 K each, no kids, have worked since we were young adults, pay more taxes than most, paid for our healthcare all of our lives, but are close to the end with the limit on healthcare, as a policy only covers to 1 million dollars lifetime. We have never had a lapse in healthcare, as there was one time we needed to pay almost $1000 monthly for Cobra when we were relocating closer to family and starting over again.

She had a few problems which required major brain surgery and a few other lesser surgeries. With the system the haters love, after paying premiums for the last 30 years, the limit is close to the end, and if anything happens we will most likely lose our savings, home, and whatever else they want to take.

Geez, what a great system you all are defending! But I understand, we are low life bums as you say are the ones not deserving healthcare.

I laugh when people say they don't want the government in control of their health, but trust companies that only give a hoot about profit, and will let you die to make it.

Headline says denial claims risen, however the article says nothing about claims, only about purchasing insurance. There is a difference.

Everyone has access to medical care. Saying people are dying because they can't get healthcare is BS. It's like when the US rep or senator got up and said how horrible the insurance companies were. She said she got a letter from a poor elderly woman who said healthcare had to be passed to help people like her who, because of not being able to afford healthcare, had to wear her dead sisters dentures.

Touching story, yet because of the lack of intelligent media, no one ever pointed out that dental care is NOT covered under health insurance.

It's all smoke and mirrors and you fell for it.

In less than two weeks I've gotten a CT scan and an MRI. Guess what? I don't have the money. What I do have is a brain and a willingness to do what I have to do. I simply went to them and said I don't have it, but I will agree to pay $50.00 a month until it's paid off. They accepted my terms.

I know people don't want to have to go on a monthly installment plan to pay for medical services, however if the alternative is dying what would you do?

I find it amazing that in the 10% unemployment times, I can get a part time job to help pay for my medical bills, in addition to my full time job, yet so many others complain they can't do anything. Determination goes a long way. Perhaps those that whine about everything that doesn't go there way should give it a try.

I definitely believe the current (now former) system needs to be fixed, but why do I want to spend even more for less? This just isn't the answer. It's like I've been driving a beat up car that only gets 11 miles to the gallon, but I'm being forced to trade my car in for a bike in pristine condition because it gets better mileage, even if I'm the one doing all the pedaling...and on top of that, I have to make bigger payments on this bike than I did on my car!

I hate to say it but I have some experience with this. I understand why an insurance company would make pregnancy a "pre-existing" condition should you be pregnant at the time you seek insurance. Not only is there the cost of delivery (which is insane... I mean women used to drop 'em in the woods after all). - Sorry, don't mean to sound insensitive, but women really were having babies well before modern hospitals. While it was riskier, it's still a pretty natural process that should not cost thousands to go through when previously it was free. But, I digress.

I am one of the reasons (one half of one anyway) that an insurance company would not want you to sign up pregnant. My ex wife and I have three children. Our first was born with a heart defect that required two open-heart surgeries when she was born and several more since then with more to come over her life (she's 16 now). Had an insurance company taken my family on when my ex was pregnant, they would have gotten slaughtered. By having us on-board before the crisis, the cost was built into the coverage by actuaries who know that x percent of women in that age are going to get pregnant and y percent of them are going to have pregnancies that end in enormous medical bills. That makes it possible to bake these costs into premiums. If the insurance company were to be forced to take her in her 9th month, they get none of the premiums, a serious incentive not to seek insurance until a problem arises and they become charitable organizations that exist only to pay and never to profit. That model won't work anywhere. You don't practice that sort of altruism in your own life, so why ask some faceless corporation to do so?

But, let's be honest. Medicine works like supply and demand does in all other industries. The fact is that nearly free health care has driven the cost through the roof such that it consumes more than 10% of our annual resources as a country. Some people pay premiums that are more than their mortgage. Why? The reason why is simple. It costs many people NOTHING to go to the doctor (or it costs them something measly like $10.00). When the government is giving out free health care to old people and companies are providing "benefits" to employees that make it such that it costs them nothing to run to the doctor, guess what will happen. Then, when people over tax the medical system, they raise prices to deal with all the additional resources they need to be able to fulfill all the artificial demand that they deal with. On top of that, people sue them once they get their nearly free health-care. This further drives the cost of medicine up.

If a major surgery is not covered by insurance, it will be affordable. Take for example breast implants. You can't have a broken arm treated for what it costs to get breast implants. When there is a free market, people make decisions based on cost benefit. If it's free to me, why not just go get it? Why suffer even the smallest inconvenience if it's free to go deal with it?

We did not need government insurance reform (at least of this type). What we need is for the free market to work again. We need people to buy medicine and medical coverage in a free market. Insurance plans should be catastrophic in nature only (if you are in a car accident, get cancer, someone shoots you... we (insurance) pay; you get the flue, stub your toe or need stitches, you pay).

BTW, I know that not everyone experiences this free insurance phenom. That's because your employer shifts the burden to you and/or you are self-employed and have to just eat the entire cost (which private sector employees do as well, they just don't look at it the same way others do). In your (our) case, we're the suckers paying for all this free coverage for everyone. I mean seriously, go to the ER and just sit there and watch who comes in. You won't see much in the way of emergency. If you don't want to go to the ER, call and ER doc and ask him/her about it. I myself have a good friend who is an ER doc. As my last aside, many of the people we wind up treating should be left to be dealt with by evolution. That's the ultimate kicker. We're paying all these costs to weaken our species. LOL.

I'd love to see insurance companies have less money. But, I'd like that to be the case because the cost of health falls due to a falling demand and a competitive open market.

linof - glad I'm not the only one who caught the difference between claims being denied and coverage purchase being declined.

Al - you get it!

Yay, hurrah!!!

Obama made the tax payer cover bloated inflated healthcare costs that people under 80 grand a year wont have to pay(subsidies) and that previous conditions(Only people that just got a good job didnt have insurance on a pre existing condition)people that have money already had insurance.

So Obama obligated the government to cover the insurance on 85% of Americans(thats how many dont make 80 grand a year and get the subsidy)and some people are celebrating this?

Perhaps if it didnt cost 40 grand to have a baby, 250 grand for heart surgery people wouldnt be terrified of having pre existing conditions and not getting coverage.

Woot yay!!! Hurrah! America will be Bankrupt by 2025!

Bush...who the hell told you that healthcare was a RIGHT? It is NOT! No place in the Constitution is that even implied. You want healthcare? PAY FOR IT! You Socialists are idiots!

linof,

you got an MRI and a CT scan and you are paying $50 a month. When will you be done paying the bill?

An MRI scan costs $10,000. I dont know about a CT scan but I must imagine it costs around $20,000.

It isnt fair to Americans that medicare enticed healthcare corporations to raise prices astronomically and then blame it on frivolous law suits. My brother is a surgical tech. His doctor pays around 8 grand a month in insurance against lawsuits. The hospitals pay insurance also. I guarantee you that the cost of a hospitals insurance and the salaries of the hospitals board of directors would make a persons eyes open...

Fix the bullpucky healthcare prices and we wont have a healthcare problem. All Obama did was try to satisfy as many people as possible with one piece of legislation. Good ole Chicago politics.

Health insurance and healthcare is not a right. Stop with the false arguments, it just weakens your case.

Caring for sick people and providing healthcare to every citizen is a noble cause.

Most insurance companies profits are government controlled, so calm yourself with the "greed" nonsense.

If an insurer cannot cover the costs of insuring their customers, ultimately they go out of business and all of their customers lost their health insurance. Many health insurers have laid out this truth to the idiots in DC who cannot do simple math.

Insurance is a terrible method to pay for healthcare, but someone must administer this big pile of crap.

The truth is whether the government does it (fraud, inefficiency, incompetence, error) or private companies do it (same problems but likely a better chance of efficiency). The responsible method would be to turn all "insurers" in to not-for-profit organizations. That would shut up the yapping left and likely save all of us a little money.

Add to that the reform of litigation (the real cost of lawsuits is difficult to measure, as there are less doctors because of the actual suits and the threat of suit) and we might have a chance at beginning to control costs.

The reality is that Doctors / specialists spend enormous time and money to become who they are. If the return is not there, these people / this resource will become even more scarce, and we will see (with a single payer system) a secondary healthcare industry thrive under private insurance, just like England.

In reply to Zeke-_stryker's excellent post. I also have a pre-existing condition. While I was able to buy health insurance, my policies always have had riders attached to them which enabled the insurer to refuse to cover any expenses related to my pre-existing condition. These riders made my out-of-pocket costs enormous and difficult to budget for since I was never sure how far the insurer would try and stretch the language of the rider. I live in PA and heard about a plan that creates an insurance pool for people like me so that we can buy affordable insurance, have reasonable deductibles AND get coverage for pre-existing conditions. Its a measure to protect us until 2014 when insurers will no longer be permitted to ask about pre-existing conditions. I can't wait to cancel my expensive and extremely limited insurance and begin buying my coverage through this new program in November. Those opposed to health care reform are crazy if they think this would have ever happened without the government legislating the issue and providing some incentives to the private insurance companies who will be managing the program. Now even those foolishly opposed to these common sense reforms will have better access to health care than I, and millions of other people, have had. If they are unlucky enough to develop a chronic illness, they won't spend countless hours fighting their insurer for reimbursement that doesn't come. And if they change jobs or insurers, they won't find that there is no affordable and reliable health insurance to be purchased at any price. There are similar programs being set up or in place in every state. Unfortunately, I know that the programs are limited in size and that the prices vary considerably but it is a good beginning. For more information go to http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/preexisting/index.html. Thanks Obamacare.

So why didn't the Democrats require coverage for pre-existing conditions for EVERYONE immediately?

They had complete control of Congress, including a filibuster proof Senate.

Why are people blaming the insurance companies for doing what the Democratic Congress told them they could do for another 4 years?

Why pass health 'reform' that only made small changes on the fringes, while allowing the worst practices to continue?

Insurance companies merely do what's best for themselves and their stockholders, so the real blame for the allowing continued bad practices is with Congress.

They should have passed universal health care when they had a chance, but they lacked the courage to do it right, so we have a piecemeal approach that will just make matters worse.

I think it is sad how little the people in America understand about insurance. Insurance is buying coverage for an unknown. We buy homeowner's insurance in case of fire, windstorm and other unknown risks that could potentially damage our home. We do not buy coverage for pre-existing problems...you can't go get a policy after the tornado comes through...that would be fraud. Health insurance companies don't accept pre-existing conditions because that would bankrupt them...not just reduce their profits. Therefore, most states have created programs labeled pools much like the pools for employers who can't get workers comp through a standard market because they are high risk. With the new health care reform, it is predicted that all non-government markets will pull out...this is already happening. So, we will be left with one market, that to me is scary and will be more expensive in the long run for everyone. It would make sense to reform the pools to make sure everyone can at least obtain quality coverage without losing all those jobs within the private health insurance market...it isn't just the big wig company execs that will be out of a job, don't forget the claims adjustors, CSR's, salespeople, and the list goes on. Do you really want to be forced to deal with a government employee regarding your health care and only have one option? That would be the same as being forced to eat all three meals from a public school cafeteria and not having the option of packing your lunch from home even if it is just a lunchable. As my father said, "The Democratic party is not my grandfather's party anymore."

HEY!!! I might be a nut case but right wing I take offensive to. Neener!

The reason Americans cannot obtain health services is because BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT politicians LONG AGO sided WITH national network insurance companies (who were funding their re-election campaigns) - essentially setting up a protection racket for insurance company pets - and AGAINST the LOCAL and AUTONOMOUS solo and group PHYSICIANS and their local patients who were working together locally for MUCH HIGHER QUALITY health services and at much lower prices, that is now only a memory. Once the central planners got into the picture with their self-protective schemes (think HIPAA - only CYA for bad service and bad bureaucracies, not for patients at all - after all what "privacy" can there be when our EMRs are over in India!)

The "new" Kenya-care (AKA "DMV office as medicine" model) is a sad and cruel JOKE. This will "give" government more control, and give insurance companies more money for themselves and to fund politicians, but it will only "take" from citizen taxpayers, bleeding them dry of their money for services and access that are non-existent or such poor quality that even a really sick person may as well stay away. This comment comes from first-hand experience of one of the worst healthcare companies in the US that is being touted by Congress as one of the best. What a lie.

America is a deteriorating situation due to the amorality and greed of the big government and big business partnership. Anyone who believes they were helped by the latest "taking" masquerading as healthcare is either a fool or someone who must be in perfect health or without much experience in the healthcare system. Anyone who is not a fool is planning to vote out most all incumbents in 2010 and 2012 and seek repeal of the abomination just passed as a healthcare scheme.

A Companies first responsibility is to it's stockholders. These are private insurance Companies and are in business to make money.

Agreed. It's just too bad that a woman being pregnant costs the company, so they deny coverage.

I honestly did not know that aspect until now. Health Care Insurance needs to be taken out of the hands of those profiteers, and handled in such a way that no pregnant American woman will EVER have to worry about affording health care for her, or her child. That's just insane. Who is running these companies, Ebenezer Scrooge?

Stupid $hit. Failed political ambition.

If the alternative party could find someone besides the complete a$$holes they have come up with to run for the seats, they might have a chance. We are now stuck with choosing the lesser of the evils and the Tea Baggers have managed to find people even less qualified to run than the people already in office.

You know what the difference between Repugnants, Demoncraps, and In Depends (Adult Diapers) is.

NOTHING.

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

The Price Tag Of Politics

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

I am a registered Republican but vote on both sides of the isle for the best canidate. There is no vote down just your party's side as there are losers in both parties and we are supposed to be voting for the best. Only people who vote without knowing the canidates vote a straight party line and it is those people that do the most damage, don't vote if you don't know who or what your voting for.

It is actually best to have the houses and the POTUS in oppossing parties as that seems to be the best for the people. The one party control always seems to screw us the worst.

bklynj gets a gold star. History tells us the best advancements in economic & social conditions in America has been when neither party had full reign & dominance over the country. Gradual change is good, but drastic shifts in social, political, & fiscal policies cause social tension & economic stress. Big man needs to shift to the center, the lifers hit the road, and/or there is the creation of a "legitimate" middle ground party. I would love to see middle ground extremist, people so radical that the purge the left & the right from this country.

Clearly what we need to do, then, is to repeal all laws passed since 1850.

Oh, wait...

Capitalism will find a way to survive...but UNREGULATED capitalism will destroy us, as it already has proven. The 'free market' is a myth perpetrated by the wealthy to delude the right. There is no 'free market' in America, certainly not in health care. The GOP and the right have ensured that this country is becoming a plutocracy like Mexico.

STexan: "I feel like I'm living in idiotville."

Being from Texas, he still can't figure it out ... the town was named after him !

I think you should go back to horse and buggy times and maybe steam engines, because nobody should have fooled with that, because it was the best. Get a grip mister! The rest of the world will move on, because it just doesn't want to live like you, be like you and most of all we all have a conscience. The shrinks have a name for people such as yourself; sociopath.

Bob are you relly so nieve to truely beleive we live in a capapitlistic society.Ever hear the words bailout.

STexan: I hope for your sake you or someone you love don't have terminal illness or pre-existing condition and get turned down by every insurance company because you'd be considered a high risk for those greedy insurance companies. Get your head out of your arse and THINK, THINK, THINK about what you've just said. Are you sure you're not saying the same thing Faux News tells you because I'm pretty sure it's the same kind of garbage they tell their listeners. I guess you won't know the TRUTH until you get DENIED when you need healthcare most. Good luck to you, Idiotville!

STexan. You my friend are an idiot! How can you justify your ignorant comments?

Yes, Stexan, you are clueless and an idiot living in your own little self-righteous delusional idiotville.

To Stexan and all the other "haves" in health insurance. Just remember you are just one illness or injury away from falling through the cracks.

I worked 35 years and enjoyed great health care benefits until life threatening illness and multiple surgeries left me painfully disabled. Requests for disability benefits repeatedly denied, my savings almost exhausted, I cannot afford the outrageous cost of health insurance.

I never dreamed I would ever be in this position.

Be careful Stexan, it could happen to you.

Here is a real life scenario, my nephew came down with a curable but rare disease at the age of 2 which will require him to receive periodic follow up echo-cardiograms for the rest of his life. If the health care laws hadn't changed, he would most likely not be able to even PAY for his own insurance as an adult because of this pre-existing condition.
I myself have worked in health care for 16 years and have seen people denied cancer medication even with prior authorizations from physicians. I have seen seniors who have hit the "donut hole" with their medicare Part D plans play "what med can I do with out" game because they couldn't afford their medication even though they kept paying their monthly premiums. I have had to help people make informed choices on what medicine to buy and what to go with out because they have no insurance and paid out of pocket. Not to mention making follow up calls to MD's to change medications to either something that is less expensive (because of lack of insurance) or because the person's plan wouldn't cover the the medication.
As you can probably deduce, I work in Pharmacy. It used to be that people had one copay for generic and a higher copay for brand. Then it changed to one copay for generic, one for preferred brand, and even higher for a non-formulary brand. Now many plans are enacting a tiered copay system that even if a medication is a generic, if the Average Wholesale Price is over a certain amount they have to pay a higher cost.
I have seen perfect strangers step up and pay for someone else's medications. I personally have paid for medications for a few.
I do not believe that everyone should be given a free ride but the article is talking about those who have the money and are willing to PAY for a health plan but are denied. Any child who develops or is born with a chronic condition/disease be it asthma, juvenile diabetes, spina bifida, etc can be denied health care coverage under the previous laws (or lack there of). If a child (or an adult for that matter) does not have the choice of preventative care to help manage their conditions, they will most likely resort to using their local ER for a primary care physician thus raising the overall health care costs.
Yes, the reform bill passed isn't perfect but it is a START and that is what it should be viewed as A START!!!
I suggest you spend a day in some kind of health care setting practice so you can observe first hand how bad it can be. I'm not asking for an Insurance company to pay for experimental procedures/medication BUT to be required to cover anyone who can pay the premium and to cover the basic necessities without balking. Heck, I remember about 10 years ago when it was not required for an insurance company to cover prenatal vitamins. That changed when they would cover Viagra.
Systemic change of this magnitude comes one step and stage at a time. Right now, this is really just the crawling stage. You have to look at the larger picture of a healthier nation in the future that can be more productive thus leading to less time lost from work etc etc.

You people amaze me. Read the friggin law. No, the insurance company cannot turn you down for a pre existing condition. Nor do they have to cover it. There is nothing in the law that limits what the premiums will be. There is nothing in the law that is tort reform, so doctors will continue to have to pay over $100,000 a year for malpractice ins. And the law does not bar illegal aliens from participating in the ins. programs, even the free ones for the poor. Used to be called medicade, now it's Obamacare.

This Obama plan has just caused the sale and shutting down of Mercy Hospital in Pennsylvania. The CEO admitted in a statement that this insurance coverage was part of their consideration to close and they will be closing additional Hospitals also.

So the ones who read the Laws through their Attorneys are already bailing out. What right does the Gov have to tell me how I have to spend my money as a business. It is like telling them to buy a bad deal knowing you will lose money. Who will pay for it?

Health care is not a right nor is the right to live forever no matter your condition. I heard a scientist say the world can support around 3 billion in reasonable comfort (read 1/5 the stuff of the average american) sustainably and we have 6 billion climbing to 9 billion on the planet. Right now we are using up the resources of the world faster than the world can regenerate so every year less and less people can be supported in decent comfort with basic and not american standards of medical care. Why do you think any medical care you want is your right when 2/3 of the people on the planet are going to have to quickly die for the planet to survive. Do you think you are more special than the other 2/3 and your grandchildren. There is no "right" to food or medical care simply because there is not enough to feed or care for the world sustainably. Anything you have is taken from those that there is not enogh for either now or your grandchildren.

The funny thing is that the stats are upside down - 6 out of 7 were accepted.

If this were the government, that would be a staggering win.

The government sends out checks to thousands of dead people and it's no big deal. Imagine their administering healthcare. Who in their right mind thinks this is a solution?

So cd, will you and your entire family be the first to offer to die if there's not enough food or if your child needs some outragously expensive treatment? NO?? I didn't think so you sociopathic, selfish, moron.

You know, you seem fairly intelligent and well-spoken, but I can't take you seriously when you use a silly term like "Obamacare". Was that the bill where Obama personally came to your aid and healed your wounds whenever you were hurt? Does the president descent from the heavens to stitch torn flesh and mend broken bones?

On another note, if this health care reform works out well perhaps a similar change might be made to other insurances in the future so that you can get flood insurance again. Granted it would be silly to require everyone to get flood insurance so I don't know how they'd work that out, but it'd be nice if no insurances had "pre-existing condition", "bad risk", etc. clauses so everyone that might need the insurances could get them.

Thanks to the Republicans, "Obamacare" did not go nearly far enough. For a country that considers itself civilized, we ought to be ashamed of ourselves that not everyone has the same splendid health care our elected officials have. We are paying for their healthcare, but we, the people, are not entitled to the same?

Halifax....ref your comment about requiring everyone to get flood insurance, they are working toward that right now, re writing all of the "flood plain" maps to require far more people to buy flood insurance and to increase the premium base. Seems to me in many cases the same people collect on federal flood insurance year after year, how about if after they paid a major claim they just bought the property, tore down the house and refused to insure that parcel again ! Always amazes me how shocked people are when they live near a river that floods every three years since time began and they wake up and find that " son of a gun, that rivier is rising again, who would have expected that to happen ? "

Very good point Carl D. I wish the government would create health insurance coverage that we can afford. Who wouldn't mind paying and being assured they'll be taken care of. That's how it works in France and other more intelligent, civilized, humane countries. In the U.S. you might pay for 20 years, then suddenly you loose your job or have an accident or illness and can't make a payment. You get NOTHING! And loose all the money paid for being healthy. It's just crazy!

Susi O....Why would you blame that on the Republicans? The Democrats get the golden health care also. Plus, they are the majority, so even IF the Republicans wanted to scale back, the Dems. wouldn't let them. It's so unfair all the way around, how these politicians force feed things on "the people" that they won't put on themselves. And another year without a cost of living increase for the Social Security people.....yet they voted themselves a raise and gave welfare a cost of living increase. A LOT of people on welfare could get a job, and have probably never or hardly ever paid into SS get an increase, whereas, SS people, mostly elderly and retired, who have paid FOR YEARS into Social Security get buttkis.

Carl D.-580212 - and all Others...

Have any of you taken the time to actually READ the Health Care Reform Act???

The Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) portion of the Act PASSED in AUGUST 2010, meaning all states are NOW REQUIRED to either use the government program or create their own program to cover any American Citizen who has been denied coverage based on a PRE-EXISTING Condition who has not had coverage for at least 6 months.

EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!!

https://www.pcip.gov/

I am a California citizen who has properly applied for the coverage, and who is about to be able to walk into a health care provider for long-awaited coverage I've been denied because of my pre-existing condition. I know without a doubt this will be a life-changing thing for myself and millions of others. I am a hard working individual who has been repeatedly DENIED COVERAGE not because I cannot afford it, or because I'm lazy, or because I do not work, or because I'm trying to rip off the system. I work for a small company who DOES NOT offer their employees insurance. It's unfortunate, but it's a REALITY for MILLIONS of AMERICANS who work for themselves or for companies such as mine.

The coverage is not $10,000 per month (wow, really?)... it's $288 per month, well within my budget, and on par with most American Citizens monthly premiums. Monthly payments are based on age and region of applicant. I would like to see this eventually change for people who cannot afford even this amount, and perhaps base premium off of earned income.

I hate forums such as this, because I feel that nobody listens, and all you want to do is complain about "The Other Side".

This is not about Republicans or Democrats, Obama or Bush, Right-Wing, Left-Wing, Socialism or Tea-Partiers.... this is about BASIC HUMAN DIGNITY.

That's all I have to say.

Aggie345886,do you know how the system works,the majority do not rule,filibuster,hello.

Did you notice my big "IF"? Filibuster wouldn't have changed anything anyway. Look how well it worked with the HCR.

@Carl

If the cost is so high you cant afford it, whats the difference. you still aren't insured...It sounds good but its still not guaranteed you'll get affordable coverage... Sorry to break the news to you..

That's a good point. It's another reason to take the insurance companies out of the picture for good.

Health Care does not need to be a profit making business. Not when letting people die is cheaper than treating their illness.

It has to be a for profit business, because if there's no profit in it, we'll be stuck in the stone age when it comes to medicine.

We only advance in our knowledge and abilities in medicine because someone is going to make a profit for what they do.

Insurance companies aren't evil. They are out making a profit. If the governement allowed more competition between them, they would open up more to allow more people into the pool. They only reject people because it will be too costly for the entire pool (and yes their portion of profits).

Insurance companies take care of people on the educated gamble that you'll not draw on the money they receive from you too often. If someone walks in and already has an ailment before they put a dime in the policy, then the company is just inviting ruin.

It works the same way as your car insurance. You pay that every year "just in case" you get in an accident. But for auto insurance companies won't cover you if you get in a crash every 2 months... same principle.

Maybe the profit in medicine and health is living a longer life and being able to do more. That's plenty enough profit for me. Profit doesn't always have to be monetary, and many does not live on bread alone.

That's great if you're living a long happy life. If you want to take care of all of your ills and live long and happy and able to do more.

You're doctor makes a living off of you living a long happy life and he needs money to live off of.

If someone told you to work your job and tell you you weren't getting paid for it, but you should just be happy that you're bettering humankind, that doesn't put bread on your table at all.

Its fantastic that everyone just thinks that doctors should just be working for free and accepting that when they use time and effort to make people well, that a hearty pat on the back is enough. You wouldn't do your job for free, they shouldn't have to either.

It has to be a for profit business, because if there's no profit in it, we'll be stuck in the stone age

I disagree. I don't think paying corporate executives of Insurance companies does a damn thing to advance medicine.

I didn't say FREE, I just said, non-profit.

I know many for profit doctors and they don't care about your life.

Dennis-816242, you're falling for the idea that the insurance companies are all fat cat executives smoking cigars and riding on private jets. Really, insurance isn't as luctrative as you may think. The typical profit for the company being about 5%... dismal by business standards. That's why there's so few of them now and another reason why they're so expensive. If there were more companies and we could buy across state lines, there would be lower prices and better alternatives.

The Health Industry is all inter-related. You don't think that Health Insurance Companies want pharmaceutical companies to do well? Or advancements in cheaper and more plentiful technologies? Of course they want you to get into the services that will keep you the healthiest and prevent them from having to pay out money for you.

That's why in many socialist countries they have lines to get into a doctor or, as in Canada, not enough MRI machines in a PROVINCE to use. You only have the government discerning where the money should go and what it should be spent on. How quickly do you're potholes get filled? How well is the Social Security Administration or the Postal Service operating? The government is not efficient, because there's no risk of another government that you can go to in order to get your care, except when you go to another country to use their care. Though more people come to the US than go overseas to use their care, but if you think of that, you're using their system without putting in, and that's part of the problem. Another part of why costs are so high in the US when people get their free care at hospitals.

And No, Nav, they don't care about you. The only one who cares about you is you and maybe your parents. Other than that, you're own your own. And if you're asking doctors to care about you, then maybe you need to meet someone! They're paid to do a service, not be your friend. Can you find a 'nice' doctor? Sure. But don't mistake a doctor's demeanor for his ability. We train great doctors in the US. That's why they're so expensive and why people come from all around the world to learn medicine here. I know many doctors as well, in and out of my family, and I can tell you that they rarely have any personality or social abilities! But the amount of knowledge is what I'm concered about.

If I walk into a doctor's office, he tells me I'm fat and need to lose weight. What else are you expecting? I go get my bloodwork and he tells me it's not good and I need to change my habits. What's the common denominator? ME. If I wanted to keep my own costs down, I'll take care of myself. Or not. It's my decision and I don't need the doctor to take me by the hand.

Joe, I am certain that Insurance companies strive to make a profit for their shareholders, and by collecting insurance premiums, then denying claims, they can increase their profits. The motive has been coupled with evidence. It's been happening for years.

Hell, just last night I was arguing with them over a prescription. They did not agree with my doctor and denied the claim, leaving me to pay full price. If I lose my job and cannot remain covered, which is a sure bet as COBRA isn't exactly cheap, I could be denied coverage now, based on my "pre-existing" condition. THAT is worth fighting over.

I hate the damned insurance companies so much I see red. So I vote BLUE now. NO WAY am I going to stand aside and let the Insurance Companies off the hook now. I would prefer to have them taken out of the picture entirely.

I highly suspect that a lot of insurance company money is being dumped into the Tea Party, now that the SCOTUS allowed them free reign, and they can do it without disclosure. THAT really sucks!

Dennis -

I read an article earlier that stated that the bill itself was written by the lobbyists which is part of why Pelosi said we need to pass it to find out what's in it. You have just as much to blame the Dems as the GOP. I blame both... they ALL get money form big businesses, don't let them fool you. Many corporations contribute to both sides, to make sure their bread is buttered on both sides.

Many Insurance Companies do resist offering certain services and will try to sneak around them to try to pay out the least they need to. Do you know what it takes in most cases? A doctor to push for you. That's it.

There's a scene I was remided of in Life of Brian from Monty Python where a vendor on the side won't just sell an item because you need to haggle. That's pretty much how many insurance companies operate. If you need something, you need to go up the food chain. Push them and they will fold.

I agree that many items need to provided. Pre-existing conditions should be overlooked, but only if you can still pay for your premiums. If you don't pay your premiums, you need to get dropped. Do you realize how easy it would have been to just make a piece of legislation that said: You cannot deny people for their Pre-Existing conditions as long as they pay their premiums and if they drop the insurance before a bill is fully covered, the receiver of the benefits is responsible for the difference.

There. Done. Simple and it didn't take 3,000 pages that no one can read. And it doesn't force obscene rules passed on to companies. There are a few companies that are now dropping their coverages due to the rules and recordkeeping that they are forced into. So they could either lay off people or provide health insurance. Which would you choose? Save a few people and give them their health, or employ all the employees but not cover them? This is what's being done to people now.

Boeing is the latest corporation that this affects. Not really a small company.

This system is going to collapse and it's going to bring everyone with it. If you have trouble now, think about the future with this bill in place.

I think some people would rather see the whole system collapse rather than be realistic with who is covered or how well they are covered.

While I agree that ALL politicians are partly to blame, and will be the first to agree with you that they ALL lie, I am siding with the liberals on the health care debate. Here are some examples of why:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/madison-leuchtmann-girl-d_n_364270.html

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33411196

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/26/health/main6335430.shtml

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/health-care-reform/now-segment.html

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/still-working-on-it-83277707.html

I understand your point, but repealing what we have won't get us there.

Not to mention, if you ever get a disease like cancer and are able to survive - don't expect to ever get insurance again. Or, if you manage to keep your job while fighting cancer, you'll never be able to change jobs.

I'm not thrilled with the idea of the gov't taking over healthcare, but given the two options I guess I'm stuck with the gov't making it slightly more fair to the consumer.

I have survived cancer and I am scared to death of losing me health care coverage. My oncologist told me if you don't have insurance, no chemo for you and then you're basically good as dead.

The only way to make Health Care work better is for the Republicans (and especially the Tea Party) to LOSE in November.

Everyone needs to educate themselves about what still needs to be done, and who is willing to do it, versus who would rather your children die than lift a finger to help. If there ever was a moment to take a stand, to fight for what is right, now is that time.

If we sit back, if we don't decide to go vote, the Tea Party Anger will triumph, and the little reform we DO have will be killed, along with countless victims of Insurance Company Greed. The Tea Party is energized by what they perceive as a grave injustice. They honestly believe there were Death Panels in the bill, and they BELIEVE that Insurance Companies are way better than any Government Agency when it comes to running anything.

And they are Angry. They are kept Angry by their leaders, who use scare words and misinformation to drown out truth and compassion. THEY will not listen, so don't even bother. Just grab your fiends and neighbors and head to the polls.

Do you remember during the debates/ town halls that Obama hosted when a little old lady walked up to him and asked if she would get a new heart if she needed it?

Yeah, he told her she would get to live off a pill. Sounds like a great alternative to me.

And Insurance Companies are better than government options... that's why people come to our country all the time for their surgeries and care. The government can't control it's own budget. That's why they just take money from taxpayers instead of actually fixing holes. The Medicare system is a shambles financially!

No, people come to America because we have great doctors, and great higher education creating those doctors. Insurance companies have nothing to do with it.

THANK YOU!

Lucretia. I believe that things ill become better when all the laws are applied. If some of our congressmen weren't in the pockets of some of the insurance companies this would not have been a problem. this health bill could have been a lot stronger but special interest has watered it down to the point of being darn near useless.

I'm optomistic that in time we will get it right but only if people realize that this is really about healthcare and not profits. I don't want these agencies to loose their viability nor their profits but I am really sick of us as citezens paying into these business for years and years just in case and then when it comes time for them to honor thier side of the pact all these scenarios arise to keep us from getting the proper life sustaining care that we need.

You can't blame the program that is in place now because yes it is faulty but it is that way because the insurance lobbyist i'm sure have done their best to water it down.

6 months into this monstrosity (no human can explain this bill as it is nearly twice the size of the Bible) there are already problems. Waivers are being considered for companies, as without them, these companies will be forced to eliminate their existing policies.

So the first big fat lie was "you can keep your coverage if you want to" delivered by the smiling, arrogant President of ours.

I'll say it again for clarity - the President of the United States told us on many occasions "don;t listen to the scare-mongering Republicans - you can keep your coverage if you want to".

Without most of the actual changes that this bill will ultimately thrust upon us, it's already a bad bill, and confirms the President is a liar, the democrats are liars, and the Republicans were right.

Can't wait to "see what's in it" next year.

It is like I stated before at post#1.21

GET THE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS OUT OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION.

This worked before.

Bush Bankruptcy - I sell health, life, and annuities policies for a living.

HEY EVERYONE Bush Bankruptcy IS THE SAME KIND OF PERSON THAT, WORKS WITH THE PEOPLE DOING THIS:

Health insurance claim denials rose by half in recent years

Aren't we just a barrell of human kindness. Careful of the ill you wish on others - it often becomes your own legacy.

In the case of Japan, that is the truth...I lived there and my wife had breast cancer and we fought it there and though we lost her....I wasn't bankrupt and I raised our 3 young kids well. Believe me, I never once wondered if we could get care, or whether we could afford it....the same when we lived in Belgium, and in Greece and in Singapore...believe me, it is sad to see all the we spend and the poor care that results.

I have been arguing for the Swiss system for years and I am a Repub in case you couldn't tell. No one here will listen. ObamaCare is not the answer-not even close to the Swiss system and it will bankrupt our country. I am not going to educate you on the Swiss system. Google it for yourself - its very easy to find. I will say that it is very similar to what our elected representatives enjoy. The first start is to repeal and replace!

@Obama Free in O-13 - hate to tell you our country is already bankrupt - other countries already own the US, they just haven't recalled the notes . . . yet.

Bob said "Or pass a Medicare for All model so that everyone in the USA is an equal recipient of our first rate health care system."

i agree with this completely and the way i see it we are half the way there ? now every one who pays taxes pays into the Medicare , medical, medicaid system but we don't have access to it ! WHY NOT ? a coworker of mine who works part time seasonally(four months a year part time ) has full welfare benifits food stamps , medical and a check every month . she was over weight by 55 pounds and medical paid for her lap- band ! actually everyone who pays taxes paid for her lap-band ! i have a big problem with this . shes 28 years old and has no medical problems that would prevent her from applying the good ole diet and exercise method !

i say give the people who are paying into the system the same benifits as those who dont ! you want to take a lil extra money from our checks that fine with me !

and for the record no my family doesn't have insurance ..... we cant afford it ! if we get sick we pay out of pocket and pray that things don't get to serious ! i would love to have affordable insurance available but since we don't give us access to what we are already paying for !

In 1992, the govt took over a legal whore house in Nevada for taxes. The law says the govt. must operate the business until it is sold. However, after 9 months of running the business, the govt. had to close. Seems they couldn't run a business selling booze and p---y. And you want to trust you health to these same people?

save your breath. STexan's a gutless troll.

Neither of you know what caused the "Global Economic Crisis" of 60-100 Trillion USDs do YOU.

Capitalism didn't almost melt down our economy - the Dem Congress since 2007 is what has put us in a depression that we aren't close to recovering from. Fannie and Freddie put us in a recession but Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank & Obama are the cause of our economic problems now.

Except that you do not seem to understand that there is no competition in the health insurance industry, it is exempt from anti trust regulations. They have divided up the country into segments and there is almost no competition for business within any area. You are lucky if you can find two insurance companies competing in any geographic area.

Please remember: insurance does not equal healthcare. If we come to understand this, getting rid of the biggest cause of the healthcare exploding cost, the insurance companies, then we can start to deal with it.

Kirk-388895 - Please remember: insurance does not equal healthcare. If we come to understand this, getting rid of the biggest cause of the healthcare exploding cost, the insurance companies, then we can start to deal with it.

They have their brains so wrapped around the axle that they cannot figure that out.

Just like long ago the majority of Insurance Corporations had their starts with Organized Crime Arsonist "Tommy the Torch" selling Fire Insurance or "Business Insurance".

post #1.21.

It doesn't matter how many there are as long as the only option WE have is whatever selection the company we work for chose. Which is usually the cheapest. It still doesn't mean you will be covered if you have health issues. It also doesn't prevent the Insurance company from denying a claim because they think your doctor is wrong. Who would YOU trust? An Insurance company looking to make a buck, or your doctor, who knows your medical needs?

wildbill-2502678........what you are referring to was the "public option" which was traded away to get the bill passed, it was in the original but to get it done and get the votes of the few republicans and the blue dogs, they took it out. My guess is that in a few years they will tweak it back into the law.

A public option will end up being single payer which will lead to a rationing of health care and that is not what we want. Ask Canada and the UK - Google the Swiss HC system and you can get a good idea of what would work here. First we have to repeal and then replace.

Do you want the govt. who mailed 85,000 stimulus checks to dead people in charge of your HealthCare? That is what you will get with single payer.

Actually, auto insurance companies DO refuse to sell insurance to some drivers. And so do homeowners insurance companies. And malpractice insurance companies. Why should health insurance companies be forced to play by different rules than other companies? And do you really think that, if forced to insure bad risks, they will absorb those expenses and not pass them on to policyholders?

And do you really think that, if forced to insure bad risks, they will absorb those expenses and not pass them on to policyholders?

You are correct. That's another reason to get rid of Health Insurance companies entirely. When a human being gets sick, they become a FINANCIAL RISK to a company. The profitable solution is to let them die. Coverage Denied.

Is that really the way you want your health to be handled?

Larry, your solution for the freeloaders who don't want to pay for their own health care is certainly justified, but not allowed by common decency. The opt out for purchasing health coverage is that you don't get the health insurance tax credit. Right wingers are trying to turn it into an individual freedom issue. They're defending an individual's freedom to stick the taxpayer with their health care bill.

Good One Larry! Wait until your premiums go over $1,000 a month. I'll be waiting to see your post!

Exactly, Larry. I can't help but think of that poor family whose house burned down because they didn't pay the fee (insurance) to the fire department. It's a sad example of what happens when we don't think of ourselves as a community. This whole rugged individual thing has gotten way, way out of hand. Human beings are social beings, not hermits.

What's next...only getting to drive on interstates or have the police protect you if you've paid the fee? Paying your taxes isn't enough anymore? Is there no longer any feeling that we need to look out for each other?

Larry. I'm waiting at this very moment to hear back from a health insurer, hoping they accept me, even though I have a pre-existing condition of slightly elevated HDL (179). It they do, I'll be paying $586 / mo for me and my wife. I'll certainly be glad when the full reform package kicks in.

Dave-860614..........my premiums are well over that now ! ( And I don't have any pre existing conditions and have a $2300 deductible ! )

MM, my deductible's $3,000 with a 30% copay. annual out of pocket is $8K for each of us. If I'm lucky enough to be accepted. If not, I'll have to join the new gov't high risk pool.... all that because of slightly elevated LDL 2 years ago.

I was a supporter of the idea of health care co-ops, which would be to health care what credit unions are to banking. The idea was under discussion in the senate committe when that a$$hole Palin came out with her Death Panels nonsense and pretty much ruined the health care debate.

Coops would have been local organizations set up by doctors, hospitals, and the co-ops managment board, elected by the members. Local, non-profit. Too bad the idea was killed by that idiot.

softdude..........you are not likely to get 500 plus people, most of whom are lawyers or are funded by lawyers to vote to limit malpractice claims ! If they would just make contingency illegal it would quickly solve the frivolous suit problem, but that is not likely to ever happen in a congress controlled by lawyers !

joe mota,

The Co Ops were formed by President FDR as part of his Universal Health Care.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

This was not shot down by the Repugnants but by those that would benefit by Campaign Contributions from the Insurance Corporations, Pharmaschutical Industry, and the Medical Device Industry, just in time for the November 2010 Elections, this is what Professional Politicians do (all parties).

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

My other previous posts (different topic) indicated a solution to eliminate the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession.

How would any buisness survive with out a profit can one of you Obamites explain in detail,thats like a car dealer selling cars for the same exact price as they paid for them.How would they stay in buisness,oh I get it another stimulas package lol.

The cost issue on healtcare goes way beyond insurance company,but yet the insurance companies get the blame lol.America's Health Insurance Plans ((AHIP)), the industry's trade association representing 1,300 members, reported last October that annual health insurance premiums averaged $2,985 for individual coverage and $6,328 for family plans in 2009. Using the industry average profit margin of 3.4% means that insurance companies make about $100 per policy in profits for individual coverage, and a little more than $200 in profits for each family policy.

So even if we could strip away 100% of the health insurance industry's profits, it would only save patients between $100 and 200 per year in health insurance costs.

Hint......Has anyone else noticed huge ass Hospitals being built everywhere when the economy is supposed to be bad ??? Anyone care for a $200.00 asprin,or how about one of those fancy disposable $300.00 ice packs,$129.00 box of tissues,or how about a $90.00 I.V that cost 70 cents,this is just a tip of the iceburg for hospital overcharges.Its estamated hospitals overcharge patients 10 Billion Dollars a year.Think we should have a little more clarity on the true cost of health care in America.The Health Care Bill Obama passed is going to do nothing but destroy the only way Americans can pay for Health Care,that would be Insurance !! LQQK a little closer at your hospital bills from now on!!

Jc--I know how an aspirin cost 200.00 the hospital charges for the pill by accessing the cost of the person who unloads the freight, moves it to the pharmacy, the pharmacist tech that logs and selves the medication, the pharmacist that dispenses it to the floor the tech who transports it to the floor, the ward secretary that transcribes the doctors orders, then the nurse who dispenses it to the patient. I use to be a nurse and never quite understood why people would complain about the cost of hospital medication, and then I had a series of medical issues that ended me up in the hospital, I was shocked when the bill came and one dose of pain medication was 45.00. I complained to the billing department eventually I talked with the hospital administrator and that's how he explained the process. What a load of crap, so now when I have to go to the hospital I take my own heart medication, and other routine meds I am on. I flatly refuse to take theres except to pain medication(anything other then tylenol or ibprophen which I bring) I just ask the doctor write an order that patient may use own medications. So far that has saved a lot, but it's crazy.