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Clearly the news media is trying to be provocative by making one person's misdeeds a national headline.
Let's see how many extremists come out to comment on this one...
Well DUH, that's what the media does! Your point?
He is why there are extremists out there, guys like him who break the rules have no place working in medicine.
The guy is simply another sicko who needs to be jailed!
A little insight into some of these "doctors", most can no longer practice medicine in any other field other than abortion, most do not have admitting privileges at any hospital, they can not write orders for any treatment of any kind, if something goes wrong all they can do is call an ambulance to transport the patient to a hospital. As a paramedic I was called many times to the local clinic to pick up some young lady after the "doctors" procedure had gone wrong, the first few times this happened I would ask the "doctor" if he had any orders and he would reply get her the hell out of here, as a paramedic I could do more for these poor girls than the "doctor" could, because the only thing they were good at is DEATH.
AS to this doctor the fact that his license has been revoked in so many other states should say volumes about him, the fact that he is still doing late term abortions also speaks to his state of mind. If you read the whole story you see what he was doing was killing the fetes then sending the patient to another doctor to remove it, all he can do any more is kill things. I doubt that he would even be allowed to work on animals in this country if he looses his license because we have more respect for animals that HUMANS. Don't tell me that these are not humans because he is doing late term abortions and most of these babies would survive.
He couldn't have had the best interest of his patients transporting them 60 miles into another jurisdiction, that concept is so 50's retro - Maybe it was acceptable as an underground means of providing an ALTERNATIVE service back then, but certainly not today.
He gives the WHOLE concept of alternative means to an end a BAD NAME.
If he were considered safe, competent and responsible, he wouldn't have been suspended previously in other states. And let's be blunt here: do you REALLY want a guy like this performing "safe, legal" abortions, when he has been shown to be both unsafe and illegal?
Glad he finally got what he deserved. A real creep trying to lead sheep to the slaughter - a definite slaughter for the child. Abortion defined: The worst type of child abuse !!
so it would be child abuse even if the baby was the result of a rape?
I used to be totally pro-choice, but the more and more I hear of these stories (especially about late-term abortions, which I think should be illegal anyway) I'm starting to come around to the other side and be against abortions.
But the argument is a no-win proposition. I believe both sides have valid arguments and separating a woman's right over her own body and the rights of an unborn child is both literally and figuratively impossible to separate.
On the one hand I believe that the government shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her own body, but on the other hand I think it's a sin to kill a fetus (especially late-term), which IMHO is taking a life away from a future person.
It's a tough one, and I'm not surprised it's an issue that will never go away.
My only wish is that people would stop to consider the other side's point of view. Not much can be accomplished by hateful words and anger. I know it's an emotional issue, but sometimes you need to just step back and look at things from both sides.
It's too bad that this country is so backward. We've got a set of Mr. Potato Head laws, each state determining something that should be done at a national level. Late term abortions should be legal in certain conditions, and the women, not the bible-thumping nutjobs, live with the consequences of their action. Almost all late-term abortions are done because the mothers have health issues that could kill them if they went full-term. This is a private matter between the individuals involved.
I don't like the fact that uneducated religious nutjobs home school their children, perpetuating their stupidity, so why should religious people butt into other people's private matters?
It's people like these that make the US a laughingstock among western nations!
I agree with a lot of what you say, and I am very much pro-choice. But I really have an issue with late term abortions. In reality, a lot of these late term abortions are done because parents discover that there is something wrong with the fetus, such as Down Syndrome. I can understand that some parents abort because of health complications with the mother, and though it's not something I particularly agree with, I support their right to make that decision. That's something I personally could never live with. I'd rather risk dying bringing my child into the world, than living knowing that I made the decision to end my childs life. And that's just me. But what about the abortions that are done simply because the child will be born "abnormal". Is that ok? I really don't think so, though that's just my opinion.
If the "late term" abortions this doctor is doing were medically necessary then the mothers would be in a hospital, not being shuffled between two different clinics in two different states.
All of this "doctors" late term abortions are for convenience, as the story points out he has to send the mothers to another doctor to remove the now dead baby, he does not have privileges in any hospital anywhere. For those that don't know "privileges" are the legal right to practice medicine in a facility, which is why he has to operate out of his clinics the way he does. If they take his license I hope it is for good, if what he was doing was in anyway legal they would not be taking his license.
I am not here to argue the merits of medically necessity only what this ONE doctor is doing. I am basing my position only on my experience from the 12 years I worked as a paramedic and nothing else.
Quotes from the story for those that missed them.
This is not a broad generalization of the field as a whole, but a very clear commentary on this one doctor. HE HAS TO GO
Quite agreed. This one guys a quack, no doubt about it. But because of this one doctors actions, I'm afraid many pro-life activists will use this example to villify all doctors who perform abortions. It would be a mistake to do so. This doctor is NOT the norm.
So all of you can speak, thanks that your mom was pro-life, is there any reason for late term abortions... MAYBE, but the "CHOICE" is clear if you don't want a babe, DON'T HAVE SEX, if you wanna have sex, THEN USE A CAP, what most pro-choice defend is: "Ok this is an honest mistake and is the girls life and body, she NOW does not want the baby, let her have an abortion.." what an IDIOT response, the more Idiots defend Pro-Choice the more I realize they never went thru an abortion, or they wouldn't be telling their HATE speech..
Reeze- I think it's safe to agree that most women are going to have sex, regardless of whether or not they are intending to get pregnant, correct? That being said, would you prefer that this woman brings an unwanted child into this world when she is unprepared and ill equiped to care for that child? So many children are born to people who have *NO BUSINESS* being parents. The result is that these innocent babies are horribly abused and neglected, resulting in terrible childhoods at best, and at worst, death. It's hard enough to raise a child without adding into the mix that the parent never wanted the baby to begin with. Personally, I would rather she abort the fetus before it has any cognitive abilities rather than bringing a fully aware baby into the world to be unloved, unwanted, and subjected to horrible abuse.
LPV123, THANK YOU, THAN YOU VERY MUCH.. YOU just prove my point, if you don't want any of what you just said then DON'T HAVE SEX AND IF YOU DO THEN PROTECT YOURSELF.
NOW WHY? late term, are you going to the doctor until your melanoma is so bad that your hand is falling of your body, do you have an internal rupture in any organ, you feel the pain, and you just go the store for some aspirin, and then wait if it goes away.. is that what you do? PLEASE, if we can take care of all that then why do we have to support late term? ain't that ridicule?
Reeze- I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ass here, but I seriously cannot respond to your post because I have no idea what you said.
Is there anyone else out there who is torn on the issue of abortion?. I agree that it is MURDER....BUT...i hesitate to insist that my views infringe on another persons liberty to determine their own medical treatment.....yet it is murder....so I should object?......Or should the individual's liberties be honored?
I know how you feel. I'm vehemently pro-life & have no problem calling it murder. But I can tell you from personal experience, very few on the Vine will agree with this; they will attempt to shout you down into silence and accuse you of being "anti-choice," "anti-woman" (which is weird, because I AM a woman), and lots of other choice words. Doesn't matter, we're entitled to express our opinions and our objections to abortion just like they are entitled to express their opinions, so don't be ashamed of how you feel.
Legally, the individual's rights are safe, abortion is not going anywhere. But I see no reason to "honor" their choice when I think that choice is so horrible. It is asking too much.
.
Murder is murder... I feel that one either objects to all murders or objects to none.
for those who bemoan the death of innocents in iraq and afghanistan, please consider the death of the same here, in the usa
I think the real issue is one that is the cause of alot of other issues that are even not just abortion. Different states with different regulations that allow people to hop out of trouble.
MSNBC, please do not use the terms "abortion clinic" or "abortion doctor." They are inaccurate, deceptive, and inflammatory.
do you prefer the term reproductive center, and reproductive engineer?
Most, not all but most abortion doctors only do abortions, most do not have any other medical privileges at any facility other than their clinics.
I'll call 'em the way I see 'em; he was an abortion doctor taking women to his abortion clinic in Maryland.
Nightnurse: You believe it is murder; I do not believe it is murder. Who is right? Each individual must answer the question according to his or her own set of beliefs. The state, on the other hand, does not have that freedom. It must decide the issues that are brought before it. On this issue, the legislature being unable or unwilling to act, the courts have had to step in. Whatever you might think about the way the courts have dealt with the issue, at least recognize that without their intervention, chaos would be the result. Coat hangers up the vagina, back alley abortions, dead mothers, deformed fetuses brought to term, abortion clinics across the border in Mexico, girls shipped off to their "relatives." President Obama is right on this one. Let's make abortion legal, but rare, through education, birth control, open discussion of the issues, and support of the institutions that contribute to this approach.
But you still must agree that THIS guy is not much better than your scenario of coat hangers.
Jamie, although I am against abortion because I do believe it is the killing of a human being, I also agree with most of your statement. Education is the key to most of our country's problems. If legislators would truly investigate all aspects of the abortion issue and not just take a side and start chewing on each other, they would most likely discover solutions that would help both mother and unborn child.
But again, that requires both sides to stop yelling names at each other and start listening and truly communicating. And as we see from the blogs after each news article, that's going to take a miracle!
When abortion providers are getting killed, no wonder that the doctors staying in the field are those who have to take risks. Then the abortion-is-murder crowd can turn around and condemn them.
GOOD! Sounds like this guy NEEDED to lose his license; whether you're pro-life or pro-choice it's clear he valued money over his patient's safety.
Absolutely. 'nuff said.
great point.
Doctors take an oath to save lives, not take a life....these kind of doctors should be tried for murder. Plain and simple that's exactly what it is. It's PRO LIFE or PRO DEATH. No middle of the road with this pro choice CRAP..........
Wrong, American Doctor's took an oath to make as much bucks as they can and if they should help someone in the process so be it.
This doctor took these patients to Maryland to perform a procedure in which THE PATIENT both requested and paid for. Why is all the blame put on the doctor? Patients are fully informed of everything during a consultation and the patients were saved money by going down to Maryland instead of paying for the hospital visit. I was in the hospital for a few hours and was charged over $3,000 for various stuff I didnt even know they did. If people stopped coming to the doctors who perform the procedures then there woulnd't be any issues but that is not going to happen anytime soon. Seeing all the information the fetus' that were aborted late term were all determined by physicans in other areas to be deformed or have medical problems such as Downs or brain polyps. Many of these patients were referred to this doctor. Although I do not agree with late term abortion it is not solely the doctors fault. There were actual people who wanted it done. He did not force anyone to have an abortion. And he wasnt even the one who botched the abortion in Maryland, it was some other doctor who was licensed to practice in Maryland!
Its all part of corporate business. This has nothing to do with humanity, sanctity of life, etc. Money is too be made and the game is scrapping a fetus out. Everything in the USA is money. There is no freedom, no choice, no feelings. We live in the corporate cut throat world of profit. There is no shame or guilt anymore. The almighty buck is the only thing that counts. Why hold the doctor accountable? He could not do any of this without willing patients who got pregnant out of laziness, lack of education, bad luck, etc. They went to him. He did not come to them. He provides a service for a fee. Much like a hooker, or a tailor. Its time to remove the illusion of feelings, and right and wrong, religious guilt, and all other immaterial debris which confuse the real issues. Let the man continue to scape as many fetuses as he can get to. I for one, would be happy to assist for $100 bux a procedure. I need a new audi. I am a true american.
Robob: "We have more respect for animals than humans" - Really???
Do we breed humans and slaughter tens of thousands of humans every day for the sole purpose of becoming anothers food? No, we do not.
Secondly, a fetus is not a human being. Thats why its called a fetus.
Btw, I'm not disagreeing that this doctor should have his license suspended/revoked. He has endangered the lives of these women with back-alley medical practices.
the animal comment was geared toward the protected species like the spotted owl and other where it is a crime punishable by jail time and a fine for breaking a protect species egg.
If a fetus is not a human being then what is it and why is an owl egg considered protected under the same rules as the adult bird, but not a human being.
As to the slaughter of animals for food that is a whole other topic not in anyway related to this topic, this is about a doctor who preforms elective late term abortions that have resulted in patients having to emergency surgeries, and not following the laws and guidelines of the states where he is practicing, resulting in him loosing the only medical license he has left. He has lost his license in other states for not following medical guidelines and laws in the other states which shows a pattern of misconduct on his part, which even the pro-abortion posters on this thread agree that he should loose his license.
Most people believe that late term abortions are necessary for the health of the mother. These abortions are performed in the last trimester. It takes 2 to 3 days to prepare a woman for a partial birth abortion. To me, if the mother's health was an issue, why wouldn't a C-section be performed, immediately???? These babies could live if they were not stabbed in the back of the neck with a sharp instrument. Very barbaric and deeply sad that this country would allow this...
Were any of these women's lives in danger of death of themselves if they were to deliver the baby instead of having a late term abortion? I would guess that the majority of these women were not at risk of life themselves, so how can anyone about to give birth and feeling that life inside them moving, wait so long to kill it? This procedure is so sinister, so selfish, it is absolutely beyond disgusting!!! It should not matter what ones beliefs are on this abomination. Have the baby and put it up for adoption. I know it may seem like there are not many good people left in this world that would do the right thing by a child, any child, a human being, a person, but there are. There are folks who can not themselves conceive and long for a child to love, nurture and guide to adulthood. This guy should be charged with murder, of these babies and nothing less. That's what it is, no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it. I have 2 beautiful grandsons and 2 wonderful step-grandsons. They are all a blessing to us no matter how difficult things are in life. And now, we are about to welcome identical twin girls into our family. We are all over joyed and excited with anticipation. Those babies may not be born into a family of means, but they will be born into a family with so much love to give. They my not have the very best that money can buy, but they will never feel unwanted, unloved, abused, abandoned or hurt. What are all these women afraid of? Why would they wait so long to have an abortion? Any excuse given is no excuse at all, with all the advancements in the medical field these days. This guy should rot behind bars for the remainder of his life and never be allowed to be around women or children ever again. He is a danger to humanity!!!
Kevin, a "fetus" is a human being. Are you aware that a "fetus" has a heartbeat in 18 to 25 days after conception? Brain waves have been recorded as early as 40 days. When the "fetus" is 11 to 12 weeks along, the "fetus" is formed, meaning it looks just like a "miniature" baby. The "fetus" can squint, swallow and make a fist. The "fetus" can suck it's thumb, kick, has fingerprints and weighs about 1 oz. and is approx. 2 1/2 to 3" long. Many people suggest that because the fetus cannot yet survive outside of the womb that it is not a viable human. Now, how many babies would survive ouside the womb if they were not cared for after birth?? A fetus is a human being.
Nicely put!!
All you have stated only proves it is "alive", not a human being. You saying a fetus is a human being is only an opinion, not a scientific fact. Just because you believe something is true does not make it true.
Great argument Kevin thank you for proving their point.
By your own logic this also applies to you.
How many of you have actually SEEN a baby in utero via 3 or 4D imaging? After seeing my last child on the screen at about 16 weeks, it's absolutley undeniable: A FETUS IS MOST CERTAINLY A HUMAN BEING & DESERVES OUR UTMOST RESPECT & PROTECTION! Very few circumstances would merit a termination of a pregnancy for the health of the mother. Come on people, where is your sense of MORALS & ETHICS?????
DOESN'T ANYBODY BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE ANYMORE???????
Don't drag the Bible in to this. God himself killed every "first born" in Egypt, so I don't think the Bible is the right argument.
Some of the fetuses are better off being aborted than being born "unwanted".
BTW the world would be better off, if more Americans had abortions
You mean like your mother should have. Because your mother chose life Curt why don't you start us off, you go first, we will call it a retroactive abortion . We will follow you, promise we will. Dis boy is out side of his mind.
Robbob-1667446 now see, you took the bait like a good "bible thumping" American.
Just the kind who should have mandatory abortions for the good of mankind.
Btw, I'm not American, just had to live with to many for to long.
I have posted not one word on this thread about religion, I have only posted from the side of good medicine as a former paramedic and I a proud AMERICAN, the fact that you can come on to the AMERICAN built internet and bash us is very AMERICAN of you, I also will defend your right to express your views as a American hating nut-job. If your are having to live with too many Americans why don't you go somewhere there are none, then you wouldn't worry about it. SIT AND SPIN.
Just because you typed it in capital letters does not make it a scientific fact either...
So all of you can speak, thanks that your mom was pro-life, is there any reason for late term abortions... MAYBE, but the "CHOICE" is clear if you don't want a babe, DON'T HAVE SEX, if you wanna have sex, THEN USE A CAP, what most pro-choice defend is: "Ok this is an honest mistake and is the girls life and body, she NOW does not want the baby, let her have an abortion.." what an IDIOT response, the more Idiots defend Pro-Choice the more I realize they never went thru an abortion, or they wouldn't be telling their HATE speech..
I Like to QUOTE Judee-2325351
" To me, if the mother's health was an issue, why wouldn't a C-section be performed, immediately???? "
VERY GOOD POINT.. now who has the answer?, who will contradict this, or is it all about money..
Pro-choice - HATERS..., be thankful your mom was pro-life..