Yet another female-oriented msn article greatly overestimating the complexities of man. Sometimes I find articles like these pretty funny.

It's also odd seeing that a woman was heading this study. If it were a man instead, he'd tell in 2 minutes why no doesn't mean no to some men. The answer is that men have the instinctive desire to pro-create and in some situations, not even the stigma of acting disrespectful will stop him from his goal. It's the hunter mentality at play as well.

There, we could have saved a lot of money from doing studies and saved people from boredom in endless and pointless evaluations!

Clarke: ABSOLUTELY! Men think because they have a sex drive then it follows that women do too. What a misconception.

No doesn't mean no because women almost never give a binary answer. Women themselves do not know if they want to have sex, particularly the first time with a new partners, and instead, place the burden of "Yes" on a man. Should we be surprised that men aren't unable to mind-read a woman that actually wants sex but has hesitation?

For many women, NO occurs after the act of sex itself, and sometimes days or weeks afterwards. Consent is withdrawn after a consensual act when the sex does not produce the desired results, usually a relationship commitment from a man.

Vincent Denali, speaking from experience as a man, that's not the way a woman's mind works. When it comes to sex they ask for it in a totally different way. It's not their style most of the time to openly ask for it like men because they do so indirectly by sending signals and it's up to the man to be able to deduce and play their game. This is tough for most men because it takes experience/good mental acuity to understand what the woman is implying.

If there's really good chemistry and the love session is pretty good, then you shouldn't worry about the woman ever saying NO when it comes to sex.

Wow, Clark, really? I know the article is about men's misperception, however, let's not jump on a band wagon because it seems like the right thing to say/do. I know as many women with raging libidos as men. I do think that when people hope for something to happen (whether that's a hook-up, winning the lottery, etc) they can project those thoughts or only see signs that they feel coordinate with the end results they want. SO,... don't just blame it on men. There are women in the world that having raging libidos and there are men that actually don't have sex with every woman that offers (I know for some these things are hard to believe lol).

I agree with Vincent, when you have good chemistry, there's usually not a misinterpretation of signs and things go smoothly.

So, in conclusion, be it a man or a woman, if you're having to look had for signs or throwing out signals and nothing seems to work, what about good old fashioned communication? Actually using words? It could be as simple as, "I enjoy talking to you. Could we see each other again sometime?" (Before trying to have some crazy make out session), but expect that the answer may be "Thank you for the invite, but no." The truth hurts sometimes, but I'd rather have that little bit of bandage-ripping, toe-stubbing, carpet-burn type pain early on than the gut-wrenching, heart being ripped out of my chest (still beating), drawn-and-quartered (extremely painful experiences etc) kind of pain later.

Maybe its expected societal/gender roles? Women are supposed to say no and guys are supposed to wear them down. Think of all the movie plots revolving around a hard to get girl.

Women also lie about rape. Estimates are between 8% (FBI) and 50% (FBI/Airforce) of all rape reports are false. Lying about rape is power.

Vincent Denali Geez, could you hate on women any more? I'm a man and even I'm getting sick of your cruel comments towards women. Just remember, a woman gave birth to you, fed you and changed your stinky diapers out of love. She also took great care of you when you needed it most and this is how you pay them back?

Vincent... having been an AF commander I`m going to call you on that 50% AF stat. False. Sounds like you got in trouble while in the AF for rape and now have a bad attitude.

In what century will this happen?

You hit in right on the nail Kozakura. It seems like no one teaches their children to have respect for anyone anymore or if they do, they are the exception rather than the rule. That's the problem.

I should add: regardless of gender or status*

or regardless of anything for that matter.

Lucy123 wrote "It seems like no one teaches their children to have respect for anyone anymore or if they do, they are the exception rather than the rule."

Men are explicitly taught not to hit anyone and particularly not to hit women. If only women were taught a similar respect.

Men are explicitly taught not to hit anyone and particularly not to hit women. If only women were taught a similar respect.

You seem to imply that ALL men are taught this. Well I hate to break it to you but thats not the case. In any case ALL children of ALL genders should be taught to Respect ALL others. That being said, they should also be taught to defend themselves should someone not respect them back.

Yes, all men are taught to not hit other men except in self-defense and to not hit women at all. Women are not taught that. When media features women kicking men in the groin or tasering them in a bar for asking questions (TV series "24"), that is comedic, right. Female violence against men is considered to be material for viewer enjoyment.

Vincent Denali No, not at all, all children (girls, boys, etc.) are taught not to hit others. The reason why it is comedic is because women generally aren't pre-disposed to violent acts like men are so it's unusual - hence the funny reaction given the situation. The same goes for kids who do the same to men like in a movie where Zach Galifianakis gets tasered by a chubby boy - funny because it's rare for kids to knock men to the floor.

From your comments I see you don't have much experience with women either that, you have a hard time catching on. But I don't hold it against you.

Let me drive my point home: would you rather enjoy a mens mud wrestling contest or a womens mud wrestling contest?..... My work is done here

I must disagree with you there. Really, it's just perceived that women aren't as violent as men (though, really, I'd like to think that most people wouldn't go around hurting people after they find out that other people have emotions just like them.) It's more likely that generally women are smaller than men (not going into the outliers) and that supposedly makes it impossible to hurt a REAL MAN! No, it doesn't. Especially if weapons are involved.

But, hopefully, we can live in a world where violence towards anyone wouldn't be condoned. That's my wish...

And now I have to ask - Kozakura = little cherry blossom? Maybe? (it's been a while since I've been in Japanese class, sorry.)

Lady Alice Arsenic

Really, it's just perceived that women aren't as violent as men

Are you sure about that? When a woman gets into a argument with another woman, typically it doesn't escalate beyond screaming at each other and maybe shoving matches. But if the same happens between men, rarely does it not escalate to pummeling each other with fists or broken bottles or threatening to do so. I don't mean to talk smack about men because I'm a man myself. The truth is that it takes men less to get physical or throw the first punch at an opponent.

what_the_81 wrote "No, not at all, all children (girls, boys, etc.) are taught not to hit others"

I'd agree that this could be the case for children that grow up in the absence of their fathers because teaching against physical violence is a strong element of male culture.

I raised my girls to understand that don`t say No if they think they may mean yes. They need to either say yes or no but not equivocate. I taught my son that when a women says no than accept it as No and do not press it until you think you have gotten the answer you want. I also taught all of them do not have sex with someone if there is anything about them that you could not live with for the rest of your lives. Accidents happen regardless as to the precautions taken and you better be prepared to live with it (not necessarily as a married couple either).

As parents we are responsible for teaching our children to be.... well, Responsible.

Which brings up the other reason not mentioned in the article: Maybe the misinterpretors are just mentally slow.

This article, while not intending to, shoves blame on to victims saying that "Men misinterpret a WOMAN'S cues"

Only the guys that don't care.....how do you misinterpret an 80 year old woman, in her own home wearing a pink bathroom and having curlers in her hair as "wanting it"......not saying it's in the article, just that it happens. If you are a sexually agressive male, I doubt much of anything will stop you.

Why are men held responsible for sex? Men have been educated "No means no" for all of time, and particularly intensely for the last four decades. Women need to be taught to give a clear verbal signal as well as to get stand up and get out of the situation. None of this passionate "No no. Don't stop. No no" stuff.

More blame the victim crap? GTFO. Yes if a woman rapes or molests a man and he says "no" then yes she should also be help responsible. Lets place the blame where it belongs shall we, on the rapists/molester not the victim.

"don't blame the victim" is a catch-all phrase for freeing women of all responsibilities of all inter-sex interactions, be it sex, marriage or employment.

"Don't blame the victim" means that you do not place blame for anything on the victim of unwanted or injurious actions.

If someone is mugged in a parking lot by walking to their car, you must obviously think it's their fault for A) walking, B) being in a parking lot, and C) having a car to which to walk.

By all means, don't let the perpetrator be blamed for anything. After all, he's just a weak-minded caveman who only responds to animal urges and he can't be held responsible for anything, right?

None of this passionate "No no. Don't stop. No no" stuff.

"No" is a clear verbal response no matter how it sounds. How can you ask for a clear verbal answer then turn around and say it doesn't count if her tone sounds like a yes? You got your "no" take your "no" and go home.

Don't play that game with anyone for your own sake.

College. I remember meeting a girl at an on campus dance. Spent the entire evening talking to her. She seemed interested in me. I drove her back to her dorm. As she was getting out of my car I was going to give her a kiss. She looked at me and said, "I have a boyfriend." Which is fine but you have to wonder why she didn't mention it up to that point.

Later I met her roommate. We have been happily married for almost 25 years.

Saying "no" is pretty clear, so I don't see what having to read emotions and body language would have to do with it. Some people are just selfish self-serving a**holes.

Women (not all, in general) do give mixed signals, but if she's saying "no" and fighting you off, that's a pretty good cue to stop. Then again some men don't care about if it's welcome or not, which is the point of rape.

I've never met a woman that explicitly stated either Yes or No, and my sample size is large enough to be a study in itself.

You must be one of those men, get help.

Vincent Denali, if you are waiting for a direct answer from women when it comes to sex, you'll be waiting for a long time. It's not her fault. Like I said before, they have an indirect way of asking for sex. Women have been sociallized since birth not to be as direct, that's how most are, especially when it comes to sex. They do want sex as much as men, they just ask for it in a totally different way. You have to play their game and be alert/experienced enough to know she's into you and understand her signals. She wants to have sex too, she just wants to get to that point in a much different way than you do.

When I wanted sex from my male friend, I'd call him up and ask him if he wanted to come over and play under the sheets......since he was usually here within 1/2 hour, I'd say I was fairly direct......without being totally blatant about it.

I've never met a woman that explicitly stated either Yes or No, and my sample size is large enough to be a study in itself.

Generally your type of woman won't answer "yes" or "no" because she's getting paid for the deed and won't say "yes" for fear of being busted for prostitution or "no" because she doesn't want to lose the business.

Women in general are unable to comment on this topic because they have no opportunity and thus experience with initiating sex with a woman. They are about as qualified to comment as a man is on the experience of delivering a baby.

Vincent, you're the walking and (unfortunately talking) definition of a pig . . .

And, yes, I have a large enough sample to know . . .

Yeesh!

No means no regardless of how that no is expressed...

In most situations where a woman has to say "no" the man and woman have spent a decent or better evening together, which possibly led to some "making out" or what have you... She may have enjoyed the evening, and even the making out part, but it doesn't mean she wants to take the next step...Since she enjoyed the man's company it doesn't make much sense for her to say "no" in a rude or blunt/hurtful way... Being a little coy or polite about it should be sufficient... If a woman suddenly screamed "NO! Get off me you idiot!" (which is basically the extent of what some of these commentors apparently expect in order to take a hint) then she'd be getting slack for being a horrible person...Of course, in some cases, "NO! Get off me you idiot" STILL wouldn't work...but that's a whole other issue...

Sex is about sex. Quit believing that Feminist Rape Activist nonsense that sex is never about sex.

Obvious troll is obvious. Psychology 101 will disagree with your ridiculous claim, btw.

Psychology 101 reflects modern Feminist rape activist values that sex is sex only when a women and not a man believes it is sex.

Sex is about sex. Quit believing that Feminist Rape Activist nonsense that sex is never about sex.

Sex is about sex. Rape is about power and control. Rape is not sex in the sense that you're thinking. It is a violent physical assault that incorporates terror, pain, and humiliation into one act, using a man's penis rather than a gun or knife. The instrument being used is what's causing the confusion between the definitions of "sex" and "rape."

As a man who's had an ex-girlfriend raped and who has adopted the daughter of a victim of date rape, I can point to at least two women who can tell you just how full of BS you are.

modern Feminist rape activist values that sex is sex only when a women and not a man believes it is sex.

Generally, that's true. If the woman doesn't feel free to share intimacy with anyone, then yes, it is rape. Even if my wife tells me "no," I drop the subject. I don't pressure her into going along because sex is about us, not me.

But maybe I'm more considerate than most, hm?

Just to back this up... I remember reading something a while ago about a guy who was put in jail for child molestation and was castrated (I believe chemically). Well, he ended up being released, and then there were some kids who said that he was molesting them. They weren't believed, but then they figured out that the guy actually WAS still doing it. Apparently, counseling is supposed to work better than simply castrating the guy, meaning that there are other factors at work.

Then again, there was also some guy in Japan who raped a girl whose apartment he was robbing because "he wouldn't hit a girl" even though this is much worse and will likely be a source of much trauma, ESPECIALLY if her body decided that it was good. An orgasm doesn't mean it wasn't rape, believe it or not.

PistOff8 wrote "Sex is about sex. Rape is about power and control."

No, it is not. Rape is about sex. We've been fed this feminist "Rape is not about sex" non-sense for decades. Don't be a parrot.

"As a man who's had an ex-girlfriend raped and who has adopted the daughter of a victim of date rape, I can point to at least two women who can tell you just how full of BS you are."

This in no way qualifies you to say that the perpetrator of the rapes was not having sex. Rape is about sex. That is why it specifically involves the insertion of the male phallus into the female vagina.

Vincent Denali are you speaking ouf of your vast knowledge on the subject of rape? Yes, we see people that are attractive all the time and it's one thing to imagine having sex with that person but it takes a special and sick person to commit such an act as rape to force the victim to have sex with you. Rape is not just about sex, it's about putting the victim in a powerless situation where the victim has no choice but to allow the aggressor to take advantage of what is most precious to the victim, his/her body. The aggressor during the attack is in control of his/her body and he/she has no say what happens in the attack. This sounds like there is at least some element of power to me. This is such a horrible and unimagineable experience that it drives some victims to suicide.

Maybe you'll change your mind about this if a woman that is close to you ever has to deal with this, heaven forbid.

Geez, what's up with the low class of people on here? We as a society are doomed if there's more like you. Here's hoping you won't infect society by reproducing. But good thing you hate women so much, that way we can be rest assured you won't.

Psychology 101 reflects modern Feminist rape activist values that sex is sex only when a women and not a man believes it is sex

Wow... Umm...sex is an act between two consenting adults...TWO...so yes, sex is only sex when both the man AND the woman consider it so...Otherwise, it IS rape...

So if a woman ties a man up and uses some sort of object on him without his consent, is that suddenly ok because SHE considers it sex, even if he doesn't? Or does your logic only work that way if the man is the one being the enforcer?

The entire premise of the article is that men are occasionally unable to judge sexual consent because a woman are often unable to communicate sexual consent.

Vincent Denali, They do communicate it, see my comments #1.4 & #4.5

The entire premise of the article is that men are occasionally unable to judge sexual consent because a woman are often unable to communicate sexual consent.

Or because most of them (the initials of one of them are V.D., appropriately enough) are too ignorant or fixated on their own urges to care enough about reading the signals.

No. I spent all of my time reading the vague, wavering signals that ultimately produced consensual sex in thousands of sexual experiences with a 100% hit ratio.

You actually have sex with women? That just sounds so dysfunctional to me being that you view women at a level just above rats. It shouldn't be healthy to give yourself so much credit though, any guy has a 100% hit ratio when he has the option of paying a 'working girl' for sex.

A swift kick to the ballsack?

But for some men the pain is actually still a turn on. I'm not sure men like that have an "off" button.

Colleges are not the rape festivals we've taught they are.

FBI "Crime in the US" 2008 report including 525 colleges reporting rapes + attempted rapes :

63% of schools had 0 rape

23% of schools had 1 rape

15% of schools had 2 or 3 rapes

Rounding to two places makes it difficult to show school that a fraction of a % had more.

That's because many of the assaults go unreported to police, however the counseling centers get the victims in there. Take your crap to someone that will believe you. When a woman is held down & entered forcibly after screaming her @!$%#ing head off NO!!!! that is not sex - it is an assault & if you think it is simply sex please take the advice offered to you earlier GET HELP!

And now to enjoy discussion without such an obvious troll.

The counseling "women's centers" on the campus are empty because, according to FBI stats, there are 0 rapes/attempted rapes in the majority of college environments.

"When a woman is held down & entered forcibly after screaming her @!$%#ing head off NO!!!! that is not sex"

No one is arguing that. Rather, feminist rape activist researchers have a list of liberal guidelines for rape, including a man providing even one alcoholic beverage to a woman before the act or any sex that a woman felt verbally-pressured but still consented to sex. Petting that is aborted by the insertion of a finger in a vagina is also considered to be a rape. This is why reports such as "Sexual Victimization of College Women" conclude by anonymous phone survey that there is an epidemic of rape with a hypothetical 10,000 student campus producing 350 rapes per year. Yet, the FBI reports 0 for the majority of colleges. When any woman repeats that 25% of college women are raped, they are quoting the conclusion of probably that paper (otherwise Koss's paper).

For dim-witted individuals like V.D., I'll also point out that if the woman is pushing you away, crying, saying/screaming things like"Please, stop!!""You're hurting me!!" This is rape. If a woman is completely passed out before & while you're banging her, this is also rape.

You contradicted yourself Vincent, and you never provide any actual logic to your arguments. No actual validity, no proof, nothing. Who are you trying to convince, yourself or us? It's not working on the latter...that's for sure.

Feminist rape activists have long included any alcoholic consumption before sex in their definition of rape as any amount of alcohol apparently completely impairs a woman's ability to control consent. A glass of wine with dinner also describes that vast majority of activity preceding sex.