Grag, how much have our tax dollars had to go to support all these children up until this revelation? Don't you think for every person that would choose to take advantage of the free birth control, is one less child that has to feel unwanted or unloved. Not to mention the cost savings of raising a child on the tax payers dime.

I don't see how trying to reduce the expense of tax subsidised child raising is a bad thing.

Obama is funding cracking skulls and sucking out brains while a baby is being delivered? His death toll is up to 50 million now? Any proof of this? After all if he is responsible for 50 million deaths, it would be used heavily in this election cycle.

I have not seen any attack ads stating Obama supports baibies being killed during delivery while he is campaigning for his fellow Democrats.

Patrick - you're a jerk. First, the use of "Kenya" is just racial bigotry. Gee, I'm sorry that you can't deal with the fact that a black man won the presidency. Get over it. He's one of the smartest and most thoughful people to hold that office in many years. He's certainly far better than his predecessor, who knew almost nothing and shot from the hip, rather than engaging in a thought-based process.

Second, your view that Obama has "killed" anyone is a religion-based view - and, thankfully, our country is not run by your religion.

Third, as a prior writer stated, it is far better to promote birth control than to have more unwanted pregnancies and either abortions (which none of us thinks is a good thing) or unwanted children who may end up on the public dole.

Patrick, you are so ******* ignorant. Get an education will ya? You are the epitome of those births we should be preventing.

@Patrick-1112710

Because we want to prevent unwanted pregnancies! What is the problem with that? Patrick, I assume you are male, so I'm wondering why this is so important to you? If you truely believe what your wrote then it's best that you don't reproduce.

If birth control were free, or inexpensive, I believe we would have healthier WOMEN, and Babies that are loved and wanted. The poverty cycle that you all point to, is actually reversed for an unwed teenage mother. Where's she going to get a good job? Finish high school or go to college? The Girl/Teenager can be from any social class, but getting "knocked up" can often be a dead end for her.

If premarital sex, preventing unwanted pregnancy, and abortion are against your lofty moral code, then please don't do any of it, and thank God you have a choice.

Patrick - HELLUVA lot cheaper to PREVENT pregnancy than to pay to raise a welfare baby!

Hey patrick, most abortion doctors are white men. So actually, I think a better campaign slogan would be "white men killed 50 million babies." At least let's have a little more truth. After all, Roe v. Wade was co-written by a republican woman named Cook, and babies have been murdered throughout the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush AND Obama presidencies. And with the exception of one, they were all white men.

Tell us, Patrick, why DO these white men love sucking out babies' brains?

The same people that complain about this are the same that complain about welfare, abortion clinics and do not support tougher child support laws. Unbelievable

Does Patrick realize there are only about 4 million births in the US each year? The idea that Obama has killed 50 million is just laughable. Only about 2% of women 15- 44 have an abortion each year. You do the math.

Why should my money be used to help others NOT get pregnant?

Agreed with qualifiers -

Why should our money be used to prevent pregnancies - ESPECIALLY when we already know the 100% reliable way to do so. It just requires self-control.

And yes, Obama does support partial-birth abortions, it's in his voting record. He likely hasn't participated (that I know of) but he agrees with its legality, which Bush did not. So there is a difference.

It maybe the only thing I agree with in the health care plan. We need to throw in some welfare reform along with it then. No Support for additional babies conceived after welfare assistance begins. Just something along those lines. Welfare was not designed to be a way of life but it has become so. Maybe the catch phrase for this itemin the healthcare package should be "Save The Children"

The Party of No doesn't care about women...only abstract embryos.

Once you are born, you need to "pull yourself up by your placenta straps."

Patrick, we need to implement a one-time post-birth abortion just for you.

This is WAY too sane a policy for the fear-mongers and haters.

25 years ago--college women could get full access to the pill at any health clinic on campus in California for FREE --don't remember the sky falling then either.

Imagine--women, regardless of their income having full control of their bodies. Be afraid, American taliban members. Be very afraid.

I am against Obama care in general because it will not control medical costs and will in general drive up the cost of medical care. However, free birth control makes sense and will save huge sums of money. It is far cheaper than providing medical care for children.

How about free vasectomies as well?

A wise person once told me a long time ago that nothing is "FREE" on this earth. A good point to remember.

everybody wants to cry and whine about who gets what kind of birth control, you bitch if they want an abortion, you bitch if they want the pill and if they need to be on welfare , americans have became hate crazy, well if someone cannot afford to raise a child then they shouldn't be forced to have a child, if someone doesnt want children then they shouldn't be forced to have one and abortions and birth control pills prevent you the tax payer from footing that bill and you should be happy about that even though its not going to effect what you pay in taxes it will help decide if the monies can be used for greater things that might benefit everyone , in any case everyone needs to quit finding fault about everything the next guy does or what he or she gets,we are always bitching about losing our freedoms a little at a time and here ya go helping the politicians beat you down some more, now do you want more government or less government? cant decide? thats what i thought ur mostly all just whining ass tards just bitching to be happy..

Isn't birth control already free if they want it? Also, I'd rather they have birth control instead of a new baby every year by a new "baby daddy." That probably won't happen. There are too many benefits associated with more kids in the house.

Congrats on a good thread repelling Patrick and his ilk. And hats off to the American Chritian Taliban for not invoking Jesus even once. Just trying to see something positive here.

What positive about the issue Jeff is; a big increase in STD's. especially among the poor and teenagers.

I'd rather pay for someones birth control for their entire child bearing period than have them churn out a kid every 9 months for the tax payers to raise. Besides that would be less unwanted and neglected children running the streets.

I knew as soon as i mentioned the Hairy Thunderer or the Cosmic Muffin, the Pro-Arrested Development types would surface. [sigh].

Sorry. My fault. Now they will spread over the entire discussion like jock itch.

PNSM @1.13: "Why should our money be used to prevent pregnancies - ESPECIALLY when we already know the 100% reliable way to do so. It just requires self-control." But even Sarah Palin didn't have that self-control you're touting should be used. She knowingly didn't use self-control when she CHOOSE to ignore the scientific data on the high statistical probability of a woman over 40 having an "intellectually challenged" (the latest PC term, as far I know). I'm happy she didn't choose abortion, even though she even admits to a few seconds thought of it. But had she used that self-control you touted, she wouldn't have had to face that decision anyway! Instead, she choose to have her pleasure which resulted in a "intellectually challenged" child that VERY likely will require a caregiver at some level for the rest of his life. That abstinence thing didn't work for her because she didn't use it, and obviously her daughter didn't, either. If the Palin household would just admit that the abstinence method isn't 100% according to how it's used (kinda like a woman forgetting a pill), then more teenagers and other woman may consider birth control of some kind, too. I'm anticipating her jumping on this bandwagon, touting the self-control method, and being a hypocrit all over gain! No doubt it will happen.

AngelP, there you Christians go again, asserting that an innocent child is "justice" for the immorality of the parents. You are not going to stop people from having sex for fun, so at least let them be in control of their fertility. Are you willing to personally care for all of the unwanted children. Many children now live lives of abuse and neglect in orphanages and in the public foster care system. Time is now to be good stewards over our God given procreative powers.

The one constant among the people that believe they have a say in a stranger's health care decisions is that they also oppose welfare to support the unwanted baby.

MAW-1297690, you said:
"The left allow free viagra for even sex offenders. True."

Where's your proof to this claim?

Rather, here's proof that this absurd assumption about, 'Viagra for sex offenders' is an illogically and intentionally contrived, right-wing-marketed fabrication:

http://getbetterhealth.com/the-no-viagra-for-sex-offenders-amendment/2010.03.30

Nothing is free somebody pays for it. If it's govt sponsored it's the taxpayer. That said; Itbeats paying for an abortion or welfare pregnancies and unwanted children. I'm all for free condoms to prevent abortion, welfare pregnancy, and STD. As a fiscal conservative it makes sense. I only hope people have sense enough to use it.

Keep morality out it. Morality is personal choice and should be left out of politics. I'm not an Obama or HC bill supporter but I support this one aspect.

Any woman who is physically able to have children should be on birth control with the exception of those trying to get pregnant. Also, it's common sense to wait until they are financially and emotionally ready to have kids. If more couples had that mindset, we'd see fewer emotionally neglected children and smaller numbers of women and children on welfare.

Most parents value their children for emotional and sentimental reasons. There are a minority who view having kids as a means of getting more welfare money. I think that if a woman is having kids for that reason, she needs to have an IUD ASAP. It's better for the kids she already has if she's unable to have more.

I got my sex ed before Bush pushed through abstinence only sex ed. I think that the sex ed curriculum needs to be taught in a more realistic manner to discourage teenager and young adults from having kids they cannot support emotionally and financially. It would be a real wake up call if some 16 year old girl found out through testimonies from another teenage mom that having a kid was harder than she thought it would be before she got pregnant. Teach kids if they're going to have sex and they will how to prevent pregnancy. The pill, IUDs, shots are all options for girls. Boys need to know they have to wear a condom since they are just as responsible as their partners. It's common sense to use all forms of protection possible if you want to have sex and not get pregnant.

rradiko, I was going to comment on that nonsensical "viagra for sex offenders" comment, but you beat me to it. The far right fringe seems to be addicted to made-up and wildly over-the-top lies about the left and moderates, and seem to be unable to resist repeating malicious gossip and pretending its true.

Unfortunately, such individuals tend to ignore any evidence thet doesn't fit into their fantasy world, so quoting facts won't stop the rumor mongers. We can only hope to reach the more reasonable on the right.

After the first child that you can’t properly financially support, educate, mentor and nurture both parents should be sterilized.

First thing - there is nothing that is "free". Someone is paying for it.

Second thing - yes kids often are not very responsible. The worst thing you can do is constantly step in and "save" them. Each time you do, they learn that they don't have to be responsible. Think about it, if you don't have the money for birth control, then you don't have the money for a baby either.

My wife and I made sure we paid for protection for both of us until we were ready. We didn't have a problem with birth control before we were married we abstained. It's not that hard. We were taught we had to, and if we didn't, their would be minimal help if a pregnancy should occur.

What are we telling these kids. Go have at it and here is free protection so nothing will happen (none is fool-proof), and if you do get pregnant, you can get rid of the problem with an morning after pill or an abortion. And if you don't do that, put the kid up for adoption, or the state will give you money for you and your kid.

First of all they don't think anything can happen to them. When it does, they can be pretty smart about working the way through the systems to help. Is that what we want to teach them?

Blueball, DB and the rest,

Are you people for real! How can dropping the abortion rate be a negative thing! How can dropping the teen pregnancy rate be a negative thing! How can lowering the number of crack babies be a negative thing! Because that is what we are talking about!

All you people do is spew hatred and bile. wake up and start thinking about the good of our country for once!

Blueball,

What you are proposing is absolutely vile and has no place in the American dialog.

I'll bet angel isn't worrying about going against "god's creative power" when he's jacking off and wasting seed (which is an abomination according to the bible).

We all see how good abstinance works, huh? Ask Bristol Palin.

I have a hard time understanding the religious right on this one. I understand how they can be against abortion, this is their right. But I'm having a hard time understanding their postion on birth control.

Birth control is technology which we have the luxury of using, instead of counting days, etc... Sex has been for pleasure since before Jesus or whoever else you want to believe in was around. I prefer to live in todays world rather than centuries ago.

Then I have hard time understanding how people complain about supporting all these "Welfare babies", and here is a possible partial solution, but against that too.

So I ask, how are these "religious" people much different than the Taliban that we hate so much for trying to live in the past?

The problem is, that the Mexicans will not use it - Catholic influence. In 20 years, this country would be >50% Mexican, especially if they have the benefit of our infant survival rate, instead of Mexico's infant survival rate.

Hey Patrick, what sort of punishment should a woman get if abortion is outlawed and she gets one anyway? A fee? Prison time? Execution?

bloggit,

You are using the same argument that they used against abortion since 1870 only back then it was the Irish and Italian papist the nice white people were scared of! Pure bigotry then and NOW!

Patrick,

50 million babies what are you talking about! As for funding NGOs active in Kenya again what are you talking about. Just Because Chris Smith says it is so means nothing. Chris Smith is a well known anti-choice fruit cake! Wow isn't it horrible that we would encourage Kenyans to vote in a constitution that limits the power of Mullahs. Don't want that whole women's rights thing to spread do we!

What you are proposing is absolutely vile and has no place in the American dialog.

Says who?

What facts, evidence and science are you basing this opinion on?

I agree with bloggit. The Latinos will not use it and eventually take over much sooner than predicted in 2050. The average height will be 4 feet tall! What will the NBA do? We got to do something!

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. Way to go Patrick. You really pissed a bunch of people off. Isn't this fun?

Pay for your own "stuff". Take responsibility. You either pay a few bucks for a condom and birth control, or pay for raising your own child. Or, for Christ's sake, DON"T HAVE SEX IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD the OUTCOME. Neither of these things should be the government's bill. The inmates are running the asylum. Why is it that it's come down to who pays for what. Pay your own damned way and make your own choices but keep the tax payer out of it!!!!! Morality- there are many levels, but the most important is owning up to your own deeds. To me, it's GREEDY to expect everyone else to pay for your deeds, one way or the other!!!!!

Why should our money be used to prevent pregnancies - ESPECIALLY when we already know the 100% reliable way to do so. It just requires self-control.

So even myself...a married women who cannot afford to raise another child...you're suggesting I shouldn't have sex with my husband if we cannot afford the cost of birth control?

I think covering birth control is one of the better provisions in the law. I'm so excited about it, in fact, that I think we should throw a party, were we dispense a liberal supply of birth control to all the teabaggers, racists, and short-sighted people that can't see that we need to spend money to save money on heath care. Happy bedroom time!

Paul

Answer me this question. If most of unplanned pregnancies occur in women using some sort of birth control, and the major problem is improper use, how would this plan covering birth control stop those pregnancies?

SEX EDUCATION, you know, the thing all these religious people are fighting being taught in schools.

I know, teaching abstinance at home would do a better job, right? Sure did work for the Palins.

So much nastiness.

This is one conservative that does not mind providing birth control for anyone who wants it.

Calling it "FREE" is clearly dimwitted, as taxpayers again pay for all of this "FREE" stuff.

Just how simple minded are the writers at MSNBC?

Amazing, he's the only muslim on the planet with a radical christian pastor

One thing that irks me more than anything is when men have such strong opposition to birth control, abortion, pre-marital sex, etc.

Face it, if a young single woman becomes pregnant prior to obtaining an education and/or job, odds are she will end up raising the child alone and she will suffer financially. Even if the father provides child support, the fact that young fathers generally do not hang around leaves the woman with a huge, time intensive responsibility making it even more difficult for her to complete an education and obtain a decent income. She is the one that will suffer most of the social and financial set backs related to having the child. Further, her child will likely suffer developmentally as well creating a vicious cycle.

Men should reserve their opposition to birth control/abortion, etc. only for their own relationships -- and only if they are married and/or fully committed to their wife/girlfriend.

I know that you may feel you are entitled to give you opinion if your tax dollars are going to pay for these things, but trust me, many more of your tax dollars have paid for welfare and foster children in the past. Obama is trying to do the rationale thing here without allowing religion to screw things up like it always does.

Patrick, you posted up a right-wing opinion editorial: "Obama Admin Illegally Funding Pro-Abortion Kenya Constitution"

You also said: "Plus, it was an article on MSNBC as well. So much for your insults. I guess the joke is on you, much like your president is a joke on the USA."

The accusations are suppositions and hyperbole. Did you follow up on that supposed request for an investigation against the President? Seem like you didn't. If you did, would know it went nowhere. Moderates in the Republican Party (what few are left) admitted on talk radio shows in both Florida and Texas late night broadcasts, that the accusations from their conservatives peers complaining about Obama and Kenya were likely groundless because they took it out of context and went by indirect and shallow associations in their flawed train of logic. Their conservative peers' call for an investigation against the President for supporting the constitutions of our pro-western democratic allies like Kenya, wasn't even formally supported by the minority whip in the congressional GOP.

After doing a Google search, the only time MSNBC posted up any mention of this with your own words, was in reference to your own comments, simply because MSNBC is a host to Newsvine for everyone's comments posted here.

Here's a suggestion, and you don't have to follow it if you don't want to: Next time you want to post up a slant to justify your beliefs, post up sources that are more politically and religiously NEUTRAL in their journalism, and you may get a more receptive audience -- because some people here don't accept what you're about to say on face value alone. Linking the arguments in your defense to websites that publicly state they have a political bias to support the views of ONLY ONE SIDE of the political and religious spectrum isn't going to help prove your case, it only reinforces with all of us, your personal prejudices.

In this case, Patrick, you've proven time and again on this and other posts on the web, that you're ANTI-CHOICE. Patrick, we understand that you're anti-choice, and you're against the existence of women's rights, you're against governments helping their own citizens in any shape or form, and against the use of birth control both in the U.S. and in the rest of the world ...WE GOT IT.

WOO HOO!!!! Let's all get naked, jump in a pile, and get sticky!!!

Birth control may be free under health care overhaul

free?

is canada paying for it?

maybe venezuala is picking up the tab?

free my ass. LOL

try: tax payer funded for non-tax payers to get for free.

Why should my tax dollars go toward preventing somebody elses poor choices for pregnancy or go towards raising thier children? Can anybody answer this for me? I choose for my tax dollars to go toward more worthy causes, not to help out those who can't keep their legs shut. I believe in choice, but not if I have to pay for it. That is what is wrong with this.

Lack of cost effective access to reliable Consummation Abatement generates incredible sums of cash. Wrapping the WMD is plastic may not fully contain the explosion. The world is full of monkey's demonstrating a remarkable breadth of expression. In some cases the word "plastic" is too long. The "well of souls" has specific criteria for manifestation, don't waste it.

You just made a judgement call thinksbeforejudging. One doesn't need BC after menopause but a STD can still be transmitted. Sex is not just practiced by the younger set. Medical treatment for who knows how many by the time the disease spreads is far more costly than a condom. Not sure if Medicare covers this. Those between 45-65 are probably at greater risk ergo so are the taxpayers in terms of cost of cure.

The headline should read "Thanks to the politicians, if you want birth control pills, you can force everyone else to pay for them. Coming soon: Government run healthcare; Just eat your vegetables!"

I am not in favor of the HC Bill, and certainly not the way it was shoved up our combined asses by a bunch of asses. Far too much pork that has nothing to do with HC. IMO it should have dealt with Insurance reform in being able to cross state lines as well as tort reform in reguarding the number of bogus and overpaid suit happy people in this litigious society. It was stated that 15% of the people did not have health insurance so why screw around with the other 85% other than for socialist government control?

Given we pay for those on welfare and illegals to the tune of 3.8 billion/yr for all illegal benefits we are going to pay for this BC proposal anyway by hook and mostly crooks. I just as soon not pay even more for raising more of their offspring, abortions, and STD. It is the only thing in that abortion of a HC bill that will save us money. It has nothing to to do with morality just the bottom line. Personally I don't give a damn about bedroom politics.

Patrick - you mean the same Western Journalism Center that sent out messages questioning Obama's citizenship. Yup, there's some investigative reportin' for ya'.

It’s only free to the naive. Somebody’s paying for it but the dregs care not as long as it isn’t them. Perhaps chairman Obama will make that rich 2% that he’s always ranting about pay for it. Whether they begin handing out these little pills for free is actually of little consequence to me, just don't BS me about them being free.

It doesn't appear that many of you are aware of current government programs for reproductive health. Currently, if a woman would like to get on birth control, but cannot afford to pay for it, she can go to her local District Health, have an annual exam and receive birth control. They use a sliding scale to determine how much the woman pays and payment is not due upon service. District Health will allow a woman to make $5 a month payments forever if that is all that she can afford. Check it out people. There should not be an excuse for ignorance in this country. The FEDERAL government gives these programs money already, but for whatever reason, women do not take responsibility for their sexual health. There is no reason for any woman out there to say that she cannot afford to be on birth control. Not having money is just a cover excuse for not being responsible.

I'll go you one better:

Birth control must be included, and in some cases, enforced. Issue licenses after would be parent(s) have completed rigorous training, including mental examination.

Why do we go to lengths to produce quality DNA in horses, hounds, etc., but exclude Human; allowing them to breed indiscriminately, and often at taxpayer expense?

And we won't even get in to the subject of illegal immigrants and there never ending stream of stake-baby brats.

blueball,

So, you can't understand how suggesting that we sterilize poor women who get pregnant by mistake is a repugnant and Un-American idea! Wow!

We have rights in this country that many of us have fought and died for! Forced sterilization of the impoverished seems to be an assault on those rights!

>So, you can't understand how suggesting that we sterilize poor women who get pregnant by mistake is a repugnant and Un-American idea! Wow!

I would say in the modern world every child has a right to not be abused. Even animals feed, support, mentor and nurture their offspring. I have Cocker Spaniels where I see parenting better than in our welfare ghettos. Sterilizing is only the most benign penalty that I could suggest for that kind of offspring abuse.

>We have rights in this country that many of us have fought and died for! Forced sterilization of the impoverished seems to be an assault on those rights!

The ancient Greeks had no concept of human rights, instead they had human responsibilities.

You may enjoy reading my corrections to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

http://blueball.newsvine.com/_news/2010/09/29/5201987-human-rights-and-human-responsibilities-and-a-correction-of-the-un-universal-declaration-of-human-rights

BB,

Are you blue from lack of oxygen?

Who gets to be the judge and jury deciding who gets sent to your sterilization camps?

Why is your animus being aimed only at "welfare ghettos"?

I have seen plenty of horrible parenting in middle class and wealthy families! Or is your sterilization program aimed only at the impoverished(read colored)?

Perhaps before we take the leap into Nazi practices we could make Birth control and abortion readily available to everyone so that the number of unwanted children conceived is diminished without sending the poor to your camps!

Or is your real idea to get the impoverished(read colored) into the camps for other reasons?

Wait you forgot, don't masturbate.

Why not blame the woman for utilizing her body as a receptacle for the male sperm with no thought to the results? It isn't the religious right getting her pregnant, she is doing that herself with the help of a male who obviously doesn't have enough feelings for her to care where she ends up afterward. Get some self respect and take some responsibilty for yourself.

so tyler, women are whores who mindlessly use they're bodies as a 'receptacle for the male sperm with no thought to the results'? Get over yourself.

Isn't that what you libs called Bristol Palin?

I just call Bristol an irresponsible teen. Fortunately for her child, the family has wealth and the child wont have to worry about be considered anything more than just a headache.

How about we blame the man for lying about some made up condom allergy or that he promises to pull out. Can't forget telling her that he loves her. Last I checked, men are just as much to blame.

So, she lets some man con her and it's the religious right's fault according to the post I was answering. How about knowing the man a little better before getting cozy and even then taking responsibility for protection. The man isn't the one who is going to take a baby home. And why would you call Bristol's baby a headache. Maybe that is what they are considered in your family, but most of us love the little tykes.

Reread it again Tyler, I said "the child wont have to worry about being considered..." This means the child will be OK despite the moment of irresponsibility on Bristols and her boyfriends part.

Comprehend something someone typed before you attack it.

I think everyone needs to accept that in reality, people of all ages have sex. Its been going on since the beginning of time. I laugh when I hear people proclaim abstinence only and forbid premarital sex and all that hoopla. Stop trying to legislate morality and living in make- believe land.

And in addition the religious right is promoting Viagra without a remedy for its effects.

I know you far right will deny this, but I have never seen you oppose the sale and use of Viagra.

Or blame the woman for spreading her legs at the drop of a hat.

The "religious right" probably think that ANY sort of birth control is a "sin against God" is why they would complain about birth control. The hell with 'em - THEY contradict themselves at will to try and prove whatever point they are trying to make at the time. I'm all for free birth control -the world's already overpopulated and it needs to slow down.

Hey, if a man is stupid enough to let a woman use his dick for pleasure with no thought for what will happen to his semen afterwards - no thought for whether she's pro- or anti-choice, or whether a child will be born that he'll have to pay for for 18 years, he's got no one to blame. He willingly let his dick grow hard. Don't like the consequences? Keep it soft and go to church instead.

Responding to telltherealtruths:

How can the religious right, who want to out law abortion completely,complain about birth control? At least preventing pregnancy prevents abortions!What a bunch of hypocrites. Sure, teach abstinence only, don't take birth control, don't have sex, don't get pregnant, don't have abortions, don't ask for assistance if the dad is a dead beat, but if you can't afford to provide enough for your child, You're a bad mother,...As usual, make it all the woman's responsibility, blame the woman for having a womb...

First, Catholics are NOT the Religious Right. Many people lump them in together when talking about it, but the RR would not consider Catholics to be a part of it due to many disagreements and most Catholics don't consider themselves in it either. They may be on the same page when it comes to preventing abortion, but the RR generally has no qualms about birth control.

It's not hypocrisy when you're talking about different groups saying different things!

And where's the hypocrisy in saying "don't have (premarital) sex, don't take birth control, don't get pregnant?" Last I checked that was a fact. The only 100% reliable way to prevent unwanted births, in fact. And that's the only part the Catholics are saying.

And then you go on to say other things (unrelated to Catholic church teaching) about asking for assistance, bad mothers, etc. I don't know if these are statements you've heard from the Religious Right or if it's just your impression, but the Church gives so much to those 'asking for assistance' through St. Vincent de Paul, huge adoption agencies, crisis pregnancy centers, adopt-a-families, food pantries, rent assistance, job training, diaper drives, etc. The people saying "don't use artificial birth control" are NOT the same people saying "don't come to me for assistance."

I think birth control should be cheap. But nothing should be free, to anyone.

Most states give condoms, and the pill to low income persons already.

For me, tax money should not pay for, birth control, or babies.

Nothing should be free, for anyone.

Well speaking of silly.....

Where the hell do you think your taxpayer dollars go if that child is unwanted and abandoned. You're right--nothing is free. Unwanted children have a price.

Passive BC methods like Norplant should be required to receive welfare (all, not just TANF and WIC).

Don't deny birth control unless you're all willing to pay millions in extra taxes taking care of all the unwanted babies.

Problems just don't go away when you close your eyes and pretend it isn't there, 'baggers.

PNSM, great comments!

Well, in case you have not noticed Tyler, humans are sexual creatures. We have also evolved to the point where we can be masters of our own destiny in terms of child bearing. Finally, i will go out on a limb and say ti since no one else does: sex is enjoyable, and to be able to have sex without fear of an unwanted pregnancy is a wonderful thing.

No government, no society, no other woman, no man (including a husband) has the right to reduce a human woman to the role of breeding stock. We do that to animals. Not women.

A man's seed is not so Holy and supreme that it trumps the rights of a sentient being.

The woman MUST have complete control and final say as to what happens to her body. No exceptions. Educate women to be fully cognizant of their role in society and their power as the decider. Any other option reduces women to being animals subject to the whims of men.

Thank you Jeff! Women should not be punished by having control over their bodies. I don't see anyone demanding men stop whoring it and hand over their rights to the government.

Knock someone who isn't your wife? Snip snip so you can't do it again! Man whore? Snip snip so you can't create an army or bastard children that you won't pay for. Honestly, equality is much needed in this world. It takes TWO to make a child.

So how many of you posting here, with free birth control, won't have to worry about their daughters spreading there legs and becoming pregnant?

PNSM, thank you for your comment!

No worries at all. For now, she still has a choice. And I would respect that choice. Very simple.

And no james, i would nto be wringing my hands at the possibility of offending some diety, and neither would she. I would raise my daughter as a reasoning, intelligent, humanist, that makes her own deicisons about her life. And I would respect her decisions. No problem sleeping at night at all, becasue i know i do nto own her. She is not property. She is not a slave. She would be a free woman.

And then you go on to say other things (unrelated to Catholic church teaching) about asking for assistance, bad mothers, etc. I don't know if these are statements you've heard from the Religious Right or if it's just your impression, but the Church gives so much to those 'asking for assistance' through St. Vincent de Paul, huge adoption agencies, crisis pregnancy centers, adopt-a-families, food pantries, rent assistance, job training, diaper drives, etc. The people saying "don't use artificial birth control" are NOT the same people saying "don't come to me for assistance."

Amen to that, PNSM. I happen to volunteer at one of those missionaries here in Florida; where I've worked in the kitchen preparing free meals to the poor, the pantry where we give out free groceries, helped in the job training where we assisted many in gaining employment and their independence, the thrift shop where I sorted donations and I helped organize and participate in holiday meals and activities for children. Never once in the years I've been doing this have I nor any one ask anyone in need of they now us or ever used birth control. Furthermore, even though we are ran by the Catholic Church, we never, EVER asked anyone looking for help their religion, or lack their of, and we had them coming in in Yarmukas, Burkas and Turbins. Hungry is hungry in any culture.

Too bad the religious haters only want to dig out the dark side and even make stuff up when they can't find enough to fit their agenda.

Carolyn:

You represent those people that were called Christian in my youth. i was taught to respect and honor those people. I did. Still do. It is a pity that your type are nto seen in the news any more for your good works. I honor your service.

I recommend everyone pick up the movie called "Maafa 21" and see the real truth behind Planned Parenthood and our government cronies dishing out $1000,000,000 a day to support Planned Parenthood especially in these black neighborhoods. It is a real eye opener folks!

No one wants to be responsible for their actions these days. It all comes down to morals and principles between a man and a woman. The government shouldn't be involved in the abortion and pill industry. It is all about GENOCIDE of the Black and minority groups and the ruling white class. My tax dollar should not be going to support abortions here in the US or overseas or anywhere else as far as I am concerned. We need to turn things around in this country or we won't have children roaming our streets anymore. You can thank our government and Planned Parenthood for that.

PM

First of all, I don't get my information from movies. They're normally make believes dug out of people imagination and has little to do with actual facts. As for Genocide, I haven't seen any signs of it. You obviously don't know what that word really means. I suggest you read up on the holocaust in Europe or the Ethnic cleansing in the Balkin Islands and Darfur Africa to truely find out. These are factual books, not a fiction. That's a very serious accusation and it's a word that shouldn't be tossed around lightly.

I haven't seen or heard of any armies invading homes and neighborhoods of minorities, removing the citizens, enslaving them and or killing them here in the United States. No bombing or spread of chemical agents reported. No sign of concentration camps that I know of. Do you? If so, I suggest you report them immediately so it can be stopped.

Carolyn; you and the people you volunteer with are good people. It matters not what religion or no religion if you extend beyond yourself to help those in need. I too am a volunteer and I appreciate all you do.

In our small town there is one church built in 1677 and 3 religions share it. When it needed a new steeple the town voted to fund it. It was also used as an overflow for town hall meetings. I guess we're not all that PC. We see it as a community of unity that simply helps when help is needed, no questions asked. A man here in town who was helped through his youth won the lottery he in turn built the new school. We are not here to judge we are here to help.

Folks stop the bashing. If you must bash, it's Halloween, go find your own pumkin.

The anti-choice movement is now moving on birth control as well. Look at the Legislation on the ballot in Colorado, it would declare a fertilized egg as a life. Thus anything that would prevent that life from say attaching to the uterine lining would be killing it. Therefor the pill and the morning after pill would be come illegal due to the fact that they can prevent the "life" from attaching!

About 65 Tea Party Republicans on the ballot have voiced support for this legislation.

They say they are against big government, but they want a government so big it can force it's way into every bedroom in the country!

They are nothing more than an American Taliban!

The religious right doesn't condemn birth control. Different faiths allow different methods. Their contention is that using birth control of any kind or not is a lifestyle choice, not preventive medicine. Just as abortions aren't anything but a life style choice. Many conservatives and liberals agree on a woman's right to choose but still think abortion is murder. Some are less fervent than others. I believe a woman should be able to choose because it is her life, body and soul she is dealing with and that of her child. I still believe that abortion is wrong and that life begins at conception making abortion murder, but I recognize the fact that not all people believe as I do. In any case, abortion does equal a choice, or an elective just like tummy tucks and breast implants, neither of which I want my tax dollars spent on. Even in cases of rape, incest, or re-constructive surgeries in the case of implants. I was burned at a very young age, I have scars left from the skin grafts, but it has always been my choice to live with them or to have plastic surgery to get rid of them. It has always been my choice. That is how I view unwanted pregnancies, and other cosmetic surgeries in general. The only exception I could see is in re constructive surgery necessary to prevent disability.

Thanks, Jo. That is what Christianity is really all about. Not what people always report in the papers for sensationalism. We believe in giving and helping our neighbors because it's the right thing to do. There are those who will exploit the religion for their own gain and unfortunately those are the ones who give us a bad name.

Good to hear from all the left wing bigots tonight. The "religious right" do not all believe what you folks are spewing, but keep the dimwitted ignorance alive - you libs who keep spewing this bigotry wear it well.

James Herman, why not do a little worrying about your son lying on HIS back, eh? But hey...you don't want him to get free birth control, so when he comes home with a bunch of kids from a bunch of women you don't know, remember...he's got to pay for them all!

And where's the hypocrisy in saying "don't have (premarital) sex, don't take birth control, don't get pregnant?" Last I checked that was a fact. The only 100% reliable way to prevent unwanted births, in fact. And that's the only part the Catholics are saying.

To begin with, those aren't "the only 100% reliable way to prevent unwanted births", as alternative forms of sex such as masturbation, oral, anal and bestial also are 100% guaranteed not to result in any pregnancy or unwanted births. Masturbation is also guaranteed not to transmit any venereal disease, too.

The hypocracy is the Catholic priests are either gay or have no sex drive, yet they try to tell the rest of us how to run our sex lives. Do we really want sex advice from someone that is either "in the closet" or neutered?

I recommend everyone pick up the movie called "Maafa 21" and see the real truth behind Planned Parenthood and our government cronies dishing out $1000,000,000 a day to support Planned Parenthood especially in these black neighborhoods.

Yet another lying right wing scare tactic, and a rather rediculous one at that. Fact is, by providing contraceptive information, Planned Parenthood prevents far more abortions than they perform. Planned Parenthood has set up offices where they are needed, which happen to include some ethnic neighborhoods along with some white middle class neighborhoods, too. Nobody is forced to use their services, all their clients enter freely.

BTW, the government does not pay for abortions, the Hyde amendment makes sure of that, and that applies to Planned Parenthood, too.

archangel, a abortion is NOT a choice when the person seeking one is a 12-year-old who has been raped. It is NOT a choice when the female in questino has been molested for years and is pregnant with an incestuous fetus. Get off the puplit and livce in the real world. No, abortion shoudl NOT be used as "cheap birth control" but when there is danger to the mental or physical health of the mother, that is NOT elective - that's necessary. Would YOU want to be born to someone whom you would later find out hated you before you were even born? Get a life.

Does anybody here really think that people will quit having sex out of wedlock?

For all of you upset that us "LIBS" are saying negative things about the Christian far right let us stick with the facts.

ON the BALLOT in Colorado: Amendment 62, would change the state constitution to say that rights of citizens are granted from the "beginning of biological development." The change would ban abortion services, as well as some forms of birth control and fertility treatments.

65 Republican candidates are on the record endorsing this bill!

Good only if taken, once "forgotten" and pregnant... it becomes a waste of MY tax dollars!

All for change: It hasn't stopped unwanted kids in 50 yrs.; isn't going to start now. If it did stop unwanted kids, we wouldn't have abortion clinics. (BTW, as a retired nurse, I know that legal abortions were done in hospitals many yrs. ago for rape, dangerous pregnancies & incest, so forget that argument FOR abortion clinics.)

GovHater, check out my post below at 4.4. Birth control will evolve over time and this is the first step.

Also, I have to say it's hard to take you seriously with that name. If you were from Iran or something it would make sense, but if you live in a democracy, at worst you can only hate yourself, and at best you hate half the people around you. I know we are in a representative democracy, but at the end of the day over a broad time scale, we are the government. It's as if you have forgotten that very basic fact, and that not all of the world has as much control over its government as we do.

What if you had been "unwanted".

To U of Chicago Student - I think you may have spent too much time studying governmental theory to see how it works in practice. Democracy has never been really about rule by the people - in a perfect world, a democratic government (and in representative democracies such as our own, the representatives in government) would be a reflection of the public will. However, in practice, an election is a popularity contest, and the candidates that are the smoothest speakers, are the most charismatic or have the most marketable pedigrees, or have the support of a few influential special interest groups, are the ones that are elected. In fact, a Washington Post poll from early 2010 found that two-thirds of the public is "dissatisfied" to "angry" with the way the Federal government is run and that the government wastes 53 cents of every tax dollar - however, I highly doubt that come November, two-thirds of the officials up for election will be replaced.

I know how it feels to be unwanted. I spent my childhood years in an orphanage.

University of Chicago Student -

You might want to study a bit more, the United States of America is NOT a democracy. We are a republic. A federal constitutional presidential republic, to be exact.

In a true democracy, the majority would rule, which is not the case in America. We are a republic in which the people are represented by a Senate and a House. We use an electoral college system rather than a majority vote. This results in not everyone's voice truly being equal. If your representative does not wish to vote in the way you think he or she should vote, you have no control over it. Your votes only serve to tell them your opinions.

actually we are a democratic republic -rolls eyes-

A democratic republic is still not a true democracy - it is a republic, which retains some of the elements of a democracy out of neccessity. Monarchies are also sometimes democratic monarchies, but they are still a monarchy, not a democracy.

Silver - you are correct. America is a "representative democracy". This was done by the founders because true democracies fail very quickly. The problem is that people figure out that they can vote themselves money corrupting the whole process. What we are seeing today is similar - vote for the representative who brings the most money back to there district. Hopefully Tuesday, that will begin to change. This is not a sprint - it is a marathon.

Progressives work very hard to fell that they are smarter than you. Consider them as persuasive writers. They will give you enough information that supports their position, but ignore whole meanings and facts that dispute their positions. They are very prepared with very strong arguments. However, study both sides of their arguments, and their arguments are fatally flawed. We don't have opportunities to waste on partial truths.

Get used to it and stand firm.

A republic is a form of democracy; it is perfectly acceptable to use either word to describe America.

Did you see the line that said half of all unwanted pregnancies are in women all ready using birth control methods? How is free birth control going to stop them from using it improperly? Isn't that something that is already being taught by the doctor or nurse practitioner prescribing the pill or patch?

Of course it won't prevent the 50% of unplanned pregnancies due to improper use of birth control. But, it would help reduce the 50% of the unplanned pregnancies due to reasons other than improper use of birth control. No, it won't stop all unplanned/unwanted pregnancies - but it will reduce the number of unwanted/unplanned pregnancies and that's better than nothing.

Now they have implants. Just shoot it in the arm and that's it for a few months. It doesn't however stop the spread of STDs.

Sex education in schools to 12 & 13 year old should be mandatory.

Free contraception is in the right direction to help prevent unwanted pregnancies. Not only the pill there are several options available (The injection was good for me as I kept on forgetting to take the pill.)

The male should always use condoms to prevent STD and an unwanted pregnancy

Long term couples should be offered after they have planned their family discounts for vasectomy. (which is quick and can be performed in an out clinic)

Patrick - You first tell me why MY TAX MONEY is being used to repair the ROAD IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE ?

Also, why MY TAX MONEY was being used to vaccinate YOUR CHILD AGAINST H1N1 ?

MY TAX MONEY MY TAX MONEY MY TAX MONEY ..BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

Look - All you jerks need to understand that we have a government here in the US. One of the job this government does is to collect taxes from all citizens and then spend it for the COLLECTIVE GOOD (gasp ..i used the word collective - now cue in soundtrack decrying SOCIALISM - absurd).

Nowhere does it say that YOUR TAX MONEY will be used EXCLUSIVELY to provide services to YOU. Get that notion out of your head. Who puts all these moronic ideas in your heads people ?

Indeed. The government gives out nothing for free.

We're being bribed with our own money, and it will be our downfall.

What will cost less for the taxpayers in the long run; paying for birth control or paying for welfare for all the extra children?

The BIG Picture: Today..government supplied contriception. Tomorrow..government mandated sterilization. Repeal Obamacare. It's the beginning of the end of freedom in the USA. Keep the government out of my bedroom, and my medicine cabinet.

Thank you Rational. I find that some of my conservative friends aren't as conservative as they claim when it comes to this subject. Better access to birth control will help reduce the number of people sucking up tax dollars on welfare. How is that not what conservatives should want?

I see DenverCyko is going down the slippery slope argument. I think he has the right idea, but the wrong execution. Today government supplied contraception, tomorrow one pill on/off fertility - which would be great! When the government accepts something like this, it spurs research in the field. Do you really think 300 years from now people will be debating about abortions? No way, it will be a moot point because everyone will have control over when they have children.

Everyone DOES have control over when ( or IF ) they have children. But it takes a first step. (Planned Parenthood has been giving out contraceptives for over 40 yrs.)

As far as expense is concerned, the article is very clear - and does not state or imply that the program would be more costly because it's government sponsored. Nitwit. It states that additional expense may occur when a patient has adverse reactions to generic birth control medicines. In such a case, name-brand versions with properties that do not make a person ill can/would be prescribed. And in the big picture (to repeat those thinking persons who have comments earlier...): expenseive pill is much much much cheaper than expensive babies.....

Don't like paying for birth control? Then keep your mouth shut about abortion.

Abortion should be legal. Birth control should be cheap. But tax payers should not pay for either.

If you cannot afford a baby, take birth control. If you cannot get birth control, stop having sex.

If you pay no taxes, you should not get anything taxes pay for. That covers rich and poor who avoid taxes.

Tired...does the sun come up in your world?? You've never met someone who had sex they later regretted? Grow up.

Tired - Ask to be beamed back up to your world.

Hey and our health care costs three times more per person than any other nations! Yeah government run health care costs so much. Wait...we are the only privatized health care system, and our health care is three times more expensive. But...i thought that government isn't as "efficient" as privatized industry? Ah, no privatized industry is just better at exploiting those who buy from them.

DenverCyko

The BIG Picture: Today..government supplied contriception. Tomorrow..government mandated sterilization. Repeal Obamacare. It's the beginning of the end of freedom in the USA. Keep the government out of my bedroom, and my medicine cabinet.

I see that you've been donning your pointy aluminum foil hat, again.

I could get behind an idea like government mandated sterilization...Maybe as a condition of receiving welfare.

Rational

It shouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. If these women would take responsibility for their behavior, then they wouldn't end up pregnant with an unwanted child.

AP:

"Tired...does the sun come up in your world?? You've never met someone who had sex they later regretted? Grow up."

I have met people who have had sex and regretted it, but no pregnancies resulted because they (and I) took precautions. Being on birth control and using a condom.

I always went by the rule if you aren't ready to have a child, you aren't ready to have sex. And it's worked out well for me. I was a virgin until I hit adulthood, and I haven't had any unwanted pregnancies. I'm on birth control, and have been for a while, and I pay for it out of pocket. My health coverage is terrible (thanks to the State of Massachusetts, the model for Obamacare), so I have to pay for medications out of pocket until I reach a deductible of $1,500.00. I haven't reached that deductible yet, and it's November. I won't reach it by the end of the year. So I will be paying it out of pocket until I get a better health plan.

If you can't afford a child or birth control (this includes condoms), don't have sex.

But I would rather have women on birth control than spitting out a dozen babies while on welfare. I just wish some people would take personal responsiblity for themselves.

Oh really, and how much of your federal taxes going to an insane military machine including to halliburton and blackwater ??? MANY BILLIONS !!!

IT IS TIME THAT SOME OF YOUR TAXES PROFIT EVERYBODY, INCLUDING YOURSELF !!

I would rather pay for subsidiesed birth control than support hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies every year like we do now. I am pretty sure housing kids in facilities for many years costs more than birth control.

I Pay for Enough: How come if the federal government "pays" for something it is considered "free"? It comes from me & every other hard-working taxpayer.

Think of it as it's a LOT LESS EXPENSIVE than supporting an unwanted child on welfare till it's 21 years old.

Contraception is far cheaper than paying to feed and educate a child, or to deal with the social problems that result from broken families and unwanted children. This program could save billions of dollars, and we would all pay less taxes! Nothing is free!

Will be a perfect ploy to enact Obama's comprehensive immigration overhaul... How else will we get all the Illegal Aliens on the pill?

Taxes should not be paying for the birthcontrol, or the babies.

Illegal immigration should be a prision or death penalty. It is invasion of our country. Makes illegals enemy soldiers.

You want an abortion, pay for it. You want birth control, pay for it. Can't pay for it? Stop having sex till you save up for it.

Government paid birth control not only prevents the possibility of the government paying for the care of a neglected and/or abused child, and/or one raised on welfare, it would have an effect on our prision population in the future.

Though no excuse for criminal, violent behavior (but a factor in it) well over 50% of male violent offenders have been neglected, and/or physically and/or sexually abused when they were a child. Granted, not ALL were from a family member. But many were. We hear every day of a child being physically abused, or killed, by a father or mother. When the child isn't wanted, or the parent(s) care more about other parts of their life (partying, drugging, etc.), the toll on the child is horrendous. The child starts out angry and frustrated, isn't taught how to cope with those feelings, and often ends up lashing out in a way that lands him in prison. If the parents had used birth control, that child wouldn't exist, and the number of male violent criminals would decrease. The cost savings would be monumental!

TIred of silly

Taxes should not be paying for the birthcontrol, or the babies.

Illegal immigration should be a prision or death penalty. It is invasion of our country. Makes illegals enemy soldiers.

You want an abortion, pay for it. You want birth control, pay for it. Can't pay for it? Stop having sex till you save up for it.

Tired, I'm sure the the Taliban agrees with you, 110 percent.

Tired of Silly: You want an abortion, pay for it. You want birth control, pay for it. Can't pay for it? Stop having sex till you save up for it.

How are things going in Fantasyland?

,

love how the librals are so desparate to protect thier right be irresponsable...lol. cant keep thier units in thier pants,...cant keep thier legs closed for two minutes,...and cant own the consiquences to thier behavior,...and expect everyone to pay for thier poor choices...then they blame everyone else for thier lack of moral fortitude,...then say well i dont want to pay for those unwanted children we librals are so inclined to have,...they insist they are smarter than everyone but fail to grasp even basic level biology,..nor can they read the instructions on a condom package, nor can they take thier pills when they have to...and when they have that unwanted pregnancy they run to the abortion clinic to have it yanked out,...only to return to the same pattern of behavior...many getting HIV in the process...spreading it along....and they think conservatives are the problem,...because aparently in thier minds self control and personal responsability is, well just plain stupid...and as this world crumbles around thier feet...and as they are scrambling for thier next desparate atttempt at an orgasm...maybe one of them will snap out of it and realize that they had it wrong all along,...women are not empowered with birth control and abortions,...these things only illustrate the lack of empowerment women have...women who are empowered dont have unwanted pregnancies,...they dont put thier lives at risk by having unprotect5ed sex,..they dont abort thier developing babies because they can afford a child...that what pathetic sad little people do who have no power over thier own lives.

Or stop paying for babies. If people had to pay for their own, they would have fewer.

whiteyzx

If you are to poor to pay, see planned parenthood. They regularly handout condoms for free and the pill at huge discounts to those who are in poverty.

archangel 3:16, Many young women who can't afford the pill make too much to qualify for reduced or free birth control from planned parenthood or their local health department or other low income clinic. In fact, many of these women are in their 20s, have no insurance (either because it isn't available at their jobs or is out of reach financially), are single and childless (making them ineligiblefor medicaid, regardless of their income). This age group is also least likely to be in a position to actually raise a child, if they were to have one - so when they have a child, they are more likely to end up on welfare assistance. This is also the same age group that has the most abortion - 57% of abortions are women between 20 & 29. Condoms should be used to prevent STI's, but have a lower efficacy rate at preventing pregnancy that birth control pills (if properly used - which is very important). Ideally, if the person isn't allergic to latex, they are using both condoms and birth control.

archangel - Planned Parenthood doesn't have offices everywhere. Silly, people wouldn't stop having babies, but they would be unable to feed them. Soon, you'd see those commercials about the starving children in America - you know, like the ones about the starving children in Africa and third world countries around the world.

In comments filed with the Department of Health and Human Services, Catholic bishops say they oppose any requirement to cover contraceptives or sterilization as preventive care.

Bishops (all male, of course) should stick to what they do best: bible-thumping, and stay out of women's health issues.

Ironic that those who can never become pregnant and will never father children (bishops) are the "authority" on issues such as this.

Pennies, that has always cracked me up. A man is going to tell me how not to become pregnant, raise my child, and how to live my life that has taken a vow to not have sex, so they can't father a child.

I'm pretty sure he's a human too. That doesn't give him any authority, expecially if he isn't living life the way I am daily... oh and doesn't have a womb.

I find the Catholic church super funny sometimes.

Men in dresses and fancy, shiny red shoes telling women what to do. LMAO.

And they don't like gays. Right, coming from the man in a dress, funny hat, who sleeps with little boys.

But U.S. Catholic bishops say pregnancy is a healthy condition, not an illness.

I wonder how many of those U.S. Catholic bishops have ever BEEN pregnant...

It's a HEALTH condition, not necessarily a HEALTHY condition.

Some people on this board act as though everyone will be REQUIRED to use birth control! Read the article again if that is what you understood it to say!!! It would only be a paid benefit of health insurance, if one chooses to receive the benefit. I'd like to see vasectomies included, too. There are some insurance programs now that include birth control, including tubal ligation, but don't include an option for men. That is discriminatory, IMHO.

In comments filed with the Department of Health and Human Services, Catholic bishops say they oppose any requirement to cover contraceptives or sterilization as preventive care.

In other words, keep your hands out of our future collection plate.

If all children had to be WANTED - or not exist at all - a lot of adopted children wouldn't be alive today - including me.

I was born in Newark, New Jersey - one of the most impoverished and violent slum cities in America. I'd have been a perfect candidate to be denied the gift to life. Thank God I was born in the 1950s - before everybody went abortion-crazy.

BC is free for the poor but limited numbers of children mean less welfare and less subsidies. Personally, I think it should be mandatory for anyone that cannot support themselves.

Spirited, I have a feeling no one will respond to you, so I will. You are basically saying that you are glad you were adopted and not aborted. That's fine, but would you have a problem with it if your parents had been using birth control? Same scenario for your existence I suppose, but can you really say you think that people should not take birth control when they are in a sexual relationship, just because you benefited from that? If so, we are probably beyond the point of debating this and will just have to agree to disagree.

Spirited 1,

We are not talking abortion here, we are talking about contraception. Should every potential egg be fertilized? Should we be forcing nuns to bear children? Should it be illegal to be a single woman or a Lesbian? What are you really saying here. Your statement makes no sense!

graindesel: I'm truly LMAO at the postings on here about how unwanted kids will be deleted from our society saving us BILLIONS! Hysterical. Just that it's deja vu. THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT WAS BEING MADE BACK IN THE 60'S WHEN THE PILL CAME OUT & WE ALL LINED UP TO TAKE IT. How wonderful that we were now going to rid society of one of its' worst ills. And with Planned Parenthood, nobody would have to go w/o a reputable guarantee against unwanted pregnancy.

So, why do we still have the problem 50 yrs. after the pill was 1st. marketed? The simple fact remains that some women simply don't care to take regular precautions. They don't have to worry with all the options open if they have a child-WIC, subsidized section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicaid, free breakfasts & lunches at school, food banks, Salvation Army, ad nauseum.

We tried it once & it didn't work. Why should it now?

So just try once and if it fails, abandon it? Fifty years ago, women were fighting to get out of the kitchen and were thought of little more than child bearers.

With that mindset, it was designed to fail.

Bevis and Butthead,

If we are to save the planet, we will have to get human population under control. Just because we failed in the past to solve our problems, does not mean we should give up in despair and quit. These problems MUST be solved. Habitat loss for the creatures who share our planet MUST stop. It is our responsibility to be good stewards over the planet that God has left in our care.

@V. Bevis

BC pills have gotten VERY EXPENSIVE in the last 40 years, and the implanted BC is even more expensive. Ideally, the implanted BC would be covered by insurance without a deductible.

OR, we could just chop off...

Amazing how the 3 of you completely missed the point. There WAS a paragraph beyond the 1st. It essentially said that SOME women are simply NOT responsible. Sorry if that pisses you off. Unfortunately the stats. bear me out.

BTW, it was MY generation who 1st. raised the flag about population control-something almost never spoken/written about today. With only one exception, everyone I grew up with (friends) or dated believed in having no more than 1-2 kids. Almost to a person, we all got vasectomies or tubal ligations; I had mine in 1974.

Simply look around today when you are in a mall, a sports game or at an amusement park. How many have only 1-2 children? Three-or-four is what I've been observing for several yrs. now.

BTW, I worked in a OB/Gyn's office & the reason B.C. pills are so expensive is the same reason routine inoculations are so for kids-law suits. This health care bill has nothing in it covering torts.

Oh & Gary Root: I've been "rescuing" domestic pets for over 40 yrs.? What have YOU done to help our planet?

Spirited1:

What are loose sexual morals? I see a bunch of taboos based on a mythology that has overstayed its usefulness, but loose sexual morals? As long a children are not involved and the people involved are consenting adults, what is the problem? [Harm a child and I would vote to have the person torn limb from limb.]

i have never been able to grasp this concept that has driven so many to sexual dysfunction and torment just because some weird holy person declared something a "sin".

Help me understand the harm, harm meaning something beyond offending some mythical being that has been awarded/said to have way too many human personality disorders.

I sincerely look forward to your response. I want to understand this.

Okay. I respectfully waited around for an answer and got nothing. I was looking forward to holy words being sprinkled on me so that I would see the light, or maybe even see a Sears lawnmower being sold fully assembled. . . some kind of miracle of that magnitude.

I suppose i will just need to make do with human reason.

Jeff,you make good points. I have a very dear friend who struggled daily with the fact that he is bisexual. He said the person who preserved his sanity was the therapist who told him "You do NOT have to choose just one if that is not how you feel."

How in the hell does rescuing domestic pets contribute to saving the planet? I work full time in the business of reducing the carbon footprint and saving energy for commercial buildings. I got a vasectomy after my second child. I support planned parenthood. And I vote for Green Party candidates when a better Libertarian candidate is not available. Domestic pets, especially house cats are scourge on the environment, and should all be neutered or spade. Cats should be kept indoors because they are one of the biggest threats to bird life.

Then the church can foot the bill on the hundreds of thousands of unwanted children born every year in the U.S. alone.

If you are against abortion and birth control, you can pay for all these children. I for one would like to see less taxes spent after the fact. Proactive always trumps reactive.

The only thing an insurance company will give out for free is a bill.

The Catholic church would be forced to provide a plan which provides it. If the people who work for the church are really Catholic, they won't obtain it, no one is forcing them to use it. The only way your logic works is if you assume no one who works for the Catholic church really cares about the church and should be forced to care by their employer.

Babies are not the "just" punishment for the immorality of their parents!

Why should a church have to pay for somebody else's loose sexual morals? If you don't want kids - stop having sex out of wedlock. Oh, is that too old-fashioned for you modern enlightened people? Take some responsibility for your life. Actions have consequences. It isn't all about YOU.

Gary: is it immoral if a married couple becomes pregnant, the husband dies, the woman is unable to care for the baby, so she gives it up for adoption? Not all babies are conceived out of immorality you know, and birth control will only save a lot of time and heartache for people who have to make these tough decisions

Jess, birth control should be available to everybody. My point was to address the objections of those who believe that a child should be made the "consequence" for having sex. People will not stop having sex for fun no matter what the religious fanatics have to say about it, and if they do have sex for fun -- it is wrong to require that an innocent child suffer the consequences of the choices made by their parents.

Spirited 1: Preach it!!!!

Gary, "Babies are not the "just" punishment for the immorality of their parents!" An interesting perspective stated very well! I like it! I like it!

If they are an employer, then they either act like it - and pay their freaking taxes. I, personally, do not think churches should be tax exempt as employers.

Oh, and babies are not "just punishment from God for commiting sins of the flesh." Babies are not punishment at all - babies are GIFTS.

I was waiting for someone to mention a reason besides preventing pregnancy. Its not the reason I'm on it right now. Its for medical reasons. Now I am lucky enough to be able to pay for mine.

I think it would be great to help all the woman who suffer from one medical issue or another, not just to avoid getting pregnant.

Thank you! Having PCOS, I KNOW that there are women who require birth control for reasons beyond preventing birth. I am one of them. Keep in mind that between 5-10% of women have this condition (according to my OBGYN) and without birth control, the risk of cancer, stroke, and diabetes goes up dramatically.

I too know of several women who need to take the pill - but not for birth control.

Well, see, now no one can comment on this thread because it makes too much damn sense.

I use BC, not because I don't want any more children. I would love another child. But if I were to get pregnant, it could potentially kill me due to a health condition.

Would it be responsible to leave my child motherless because I just WANT another child? No. And so I use BC as recommended by my Dr. My husband fully supports that rational decision.

There are many, many women like myself. So, yes, BC SHOULD be covered and given to every woman that needs or wants it. It's sad that so many people want to judge others and destroy lives, rather than love their neighbors.

And how much do tax payers pay for unwanted children ??? You right wingers are just too stupid to make an intelligent argument. You just cannot imagine in your narrow brains the long time benefits, of things like universal health care.

When it comes to conceiving dependent children, we will end up paying one way or another. Contraception is cheap in comparison to the cost of feeding and educating a child, or incarcerating an adult criminal suffered from the consequences of an uncaring or unloving family. Nothing is free.

Jack, I'll foot the bill for the birth control if you foot the bill for all the children born that end up as just another tax credit. Sound good to you?

Take your hate blinders off long enough to see how much we are paying now. Would this suggestion have been made if we were not paying out so much already for all the discarded children?

MikeInNy, you presume that people who don't use birth control do so because they can't afford it. Sorry, birth control is cheap. Those who don't use it, do so because they're irresponsible or ignorant. Not because they can't afford it. Try again.

Contrare, Jack. There are women who cannot afford birth control pills, the IUD and/or the diaphram. I personally know women, who if it were not for Planned Parenthood, would not be able to afford any of those above mentioned methods. The minimum wage job only goes so far, you know. They know they might end up pregnant without it, and are very grateful that it's available to them. These are smart women who know better than to rely on the boyfriend (or husband, if married) to always have a condom available, and then always being willing to use it. They know it will be them whose life is impacted the most if they would become pregnant. Money should not be the deciding factor as to whether or not a child gets conceived. And we all know, abstinence isn't always the answer because it only takes a few seconds of passion to override all common sense in the bedroom!

Unfortunately, Planned Parenthood is not always available in the rural areas. The rural woman needs equal access.

Amen, Love it!

Should be mandatory for people with intolerant attitudes and who don't base remarks on facts.

I wasn't wanted at the beginning - but thank God my birth mother had the decency to allow me to live - and be adopted out of the inner city. My life's path led me into a successful music career, a season as in LA radio advertizing, another season in aerospace, and now owning a graphic design company. I'm very happy I was given the chance to live, and am especially relieved that YOU were not my mother.

Same here, Spirited 1. The best day of my life was when I was relinquished for adoption.

We should all realize that whether we are conceived or not is largely a matter of chance. Think of all the eggs that are fertilized but never implant, or are miscarried. My mother had a miscarriage before I was conceived; should I mourn for that child that was never born? I don't think so, because I don't think a fertilized egg is a person. You can argue about whether a fetus is a person, but it is hard to argue that the fertilized egg has all the components of a person: mind, heart, brain. Those are all still wrapped up in its dna.

Every woman has about 1.5 million eggs --- should we be trying to fertilize them all? How absurd! Many potentialities never come to fruition --- and should not. Every life is a miracle and we are all lucky to be alive, but an unlimited number of human beings on the planet would be irresponsible and would destroy everything that we all love about being alive. Let us not create so many human beings that human life becomes a curse rather than a blessing.

I know where you are coming from Spirited1. My mother was 15 when she got pregnant with me, and my father was only 17. Now I know that my parents could have have an abortion, but obviously they didn't. My parents had a very difficult time for many years because of me. I brought together two people that likely should never have been together. Now I don't consider myself a mistake or anything like that, but I sometimes can't help but wonder how much better off or how different my parents' lives could have been if I hadn't come along. But anyways...

The use of birth control doesn't kill off anyone, it simply prevents life from even starting. And that is what so many low-income families need help with. They don't need/want another mouth to feed.

Both my sons were wanted. The daughter I miscarried was wanted, but not to be. After the birth of my youngest son, I had my tubes tied. Had I not miscarried my daughter, I would have one son and oen daughter - no more than 2 children for me.

Absolutely agree with you!! There is no "lesson" to be learned by those that have children who are not prepared (mentally/financially/etc) to take on the full responsibility of raising a child, which is why child welfare services all over the country are completely overwhelmed.

For all those who think like AngelP - "I would much rather support a "welfare" baby and allow them to have a chance to live according to God's plan than to pay my tax dollars towards something that goes against God's creative power." - If you haven't already, perhaps you should step up and become a foster/adoptive parent. Truly put your money where your mouth is.

They consider their anti-progress attitudes, a virtue. They would celebrate the fact that the U.S. is now slipping back on all fronts, back, eventually to the DARK AGES, before the Age of Enlightenment, when the infant mortality rate was sky-high, and people were lucky to live beyond age 40.

What can you expect of the Religious Right that consider the Biblical scriptures to be of infinitely greater value than any laws written by mortal men, like the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Civil Rights, etc. I'm sure they would be overjoyed if the U.S. devolved back to the BRONZE AGE of the Middle East.

Absolutely, and so should vasectomies! And if women who receive welfare would be REQUIRED to be on birth control, perhaps some thought should be given to the men who practice a form of polygamy by having babies with more than one women! Perhaps they should have vasectomies, and they can hope the drs. find a way to undo that procedure in the future.!

Vasectomies CAN, in some cases, be reversed now, as is also the case with tubal ligations.

I agree, I don't get is why the Catholic Church even cares, or why anyone non-Catholic cares about their opinion...they don't pay taxes after all!

To the Church: Just preach abstinence from your pulpit and do a better job of getting through to your parishioners. If they don't buy what you're selling, however, maybe you need a different product.

Sigh, then there are the kids, like both my sons, conceived while mom is ON birth control....

Plenty of Catholics that oppose contraception are Democrats.

graindesel: I missed the memo; guess I didn't look up high enough!

You bet we're going to obstruct...not only NO, but HELL NO...to Obamacare, to bailouts, to higher taxes, to BIG GOVERNMENT and to populists programs...Tuesday, here we come...

juanita, and all those who protest the Health Care Reform legislation. Please know that the changes being made will make a huge difference to many of us that are disabled and frantically trying to pay for our prescriptions AND keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. I'm not sure what specific problems people have with HC reform, and when I challenge them, they ultimately don't have any problem.

Read, think and research what this legislation is projected to accomplish. You may know one or two people that have chronic illnesses or are disabled because of accidents, etc. Ask those people, and the uninsured and underinsured, how hard it is to manage their medical needs. We split pills, we skip doses, we go without a lot of the time.

This doesn't have to be about politics, but so many people are making it political. Taking care of our own is the right thing to do.

The bailouts started under Bush, caused by years of dereg and nonreg of the industry, going back to the Reagan era. Since the alternative was to let the entire world economy tank, this was the lesser of two smelly evils. The bankers got us into this mess, they were allowed to get us into this mess, then held us hostage to get them out of the hole they dug themselves and us into. The money given out, by the way, has mostly been repaid.

You make me laugh!!!!

Blame Bush. Blame this. Blame that. Blame the GOP.

Why is it that they just before the election say,"Hey, Free crap!!!! All Free!!!"

Someone pays. Get it. Some one foots the bill. HELLO!!!!!

And you know who?????

The Taxpayer. You and me.

And the idea that the Government would help bring the costs down. Let's see? Where did that go? Oah Yea, Costs are going UP!!!! Fooled You. Ha Ha Ha.

Thanks Obama!!!!!

Taxes go up. No jobs. Everything is free. What's wrong with this picture?

Sooner than later, you wake up to find you are a slave.

Welcome to the Democratic Socialist lieing machine.

Vote Tuesday for freedom and the Right to choose.

Not Government Control.

But if that's what you want, be careful, you may get more than you bargained for.

Remember all those 70's movies that show the "State" having all the control.

Well, the people may just be stupid enough to vote it in.

Revolt against the Machine. While you still have a chance!!!!!

Gary Root

Plenty of Catholics that oppose contraception are Democrats.

Gary, that's an unhelpful hyperbole, and you know it. Plenty of CONSERVATIVES THAT EXIST IN EITHER PARTY, regardless of their religion, oppose contraception, and more so, the REPUBLICANS. You want proof of this claim? GOOGLE IT.

Got to respect somebody that references "all those 70's movies . . . " as their base of knowledge.

Little black girls? What a racist. You don't think girls of other races do or will use birth control pills?

Tyler I believe lee was just reiterating the conservative mindset. As a person from the country...this is exactly what many of the white conservatives would think.

Ya, I would have to laugh at that, since I have white friends who got pregnant... twice, before age 20. I have some black friends too who got pregnant as well. I on the other hand had a good mother who taught me not to throw my life way. Its not about race, its about good parenting, smart choices, and oh, proper birth control.

And you claim to know exactly what white conservatives would think? Wow. Do you have natural powers to read minds or did you get some kind of degree in it?

lee-atwater.......ALL people WONT be paying into this health care debacle....ALOT WILL BE GETTING IT FREE THRU SUBSIDIES ....SUPPORTED BY THOSE WHO WORK TAX DOLLARS.....MUCH LIKE NOW ONLY WORSE cause MORE people will be ON IT ....

So actually yes....SOME of us WILL be paying FOR ALOT OF YOU who want "free stuff".....THAT IS WHY people are angry.

YOUR HEALTH CARE AND YOUR SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY....IT IS YOURS !!!!

GET ready for POPULATION CONTROL like China NEXT....because ONCE THE GOVERNMENT PAYS FOR YOUR BIRTH CONTROL.....THEY CAN THEN TELL YOU HOW MANY KIDS YOU ARE OR ARENT ALLOWED TO HAVE......This is WHY they want to CONTROL your health care TO BEGIN WITH......TO DECIDE WHO GETS CARE AND WHO DOESNT AND WHAT TYPE THEY RECIEVE.....IF YOU LIVE OR DIE......

But you liberals just are TOO DENSE to see what is going on here....YOU are all out for FREEBIES and are blinded by their REAL agenda.

Obama EVEN SAID HIMSELF on the Daily Show....THEY HAVE DONE THINGS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT EVEN KNOW ABOUT .......PERHAPS some of you liberals SHOULD ASK WHAT THOSE "THINGS" ARE ? That doesnt sound TOO TRANSPARENT to me ......and WHO wants people in power with an AGENDA THEY ARE HIDING FROM THE PEOPLE ?

Char, you said: "YOUR HEALTH CARE AND YOUR SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY....IT IS YOURS !!!!"

In that case, after you become a parent, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF, and DON'T go depending on your spouse for help, DON'T go asking your parents for help on raising your child, DON'T ask your church for support for you having a baby, DON'T ask your friends for help, DON'T turn to your like-minded neighbors for help, DON'T turn to your employers for any support, DON'T ask a midwife for help, DON'T go to any hospital for help, DON'T ask for the government to help you out in any shape or form, DON'T ask ANYONE for help.

BY YOUR RIGHT-WING LOGIC THEN, ASKING FOR HELP, LIKE HEALTH CARE FOR YOU AND YOUR BABY, IS EQUIVALENT TO BEING IRRESPONSIBLE, AND IT WOULD BE SOMETHING ONLY A "LIBERAL" WOULD DO.

Good luck in raising your child, ALONE, AND WITHOUT ANY 'HEALTH CARE', and WITHOUT ANY SAFETY NETS, subsidized or not! That way, you can say you were being completely "responsible" for yourself, by yourself, to yourself, and for your own sexual choices!

And by the way, you imply the liberals' supposedly have a secretive, "REAL agenda." DON YOUR SHINY TIN FOIL HAT AND YOU TELL ALL OF US JUST WHAT YOU BELIEVE IT IS, BECAUSE FOX NEWS AND THE BIBLE TOLD YOU SO.

rradikko,...what a rediculous and pathetic argument,...i guess when they found the libral gene they forgor to tell everyone that same gene is reposable for schizophrenia, sex addiction (go figure) and a number of other neurosis....so i guess i shouldnt be surprized by the level of desparation the librals are sinking to to protect thier little shop of horrors.

OSIG wrote: "rradikko,...what a rediculous and pathetic argument,...I guess when they found the libral gene ...that same gene is reposable for schizophrenia sex addiction (go figure) and a number of other neurosis..... so i guess i shouldnt be surprized by the level of desparation the librals are sinking to to protect thier little shop of horrors."

Learn to to use a spellcheck lately? You couldn't even get my name right. Taken an elementary-grade grammar course, lately? Or how about a basic science or biology course, 9th grade level? ... or are these public educational activities, "too liberal" for your ultra-conservative insensibility?

If anyone wants to "protect thier little shop of horrors," it's people like YOU that don't want any affordable or available health care preventative options available for consenting adults that live in our modern civilization. I'm sure you would like it if we went back to the bad old days of back alley abortions in this country.

But let me take a guess, OSIG, you want America to exist only for the selfish benefit of anarchists like YOU that don't contribute a DAMNED THING to what one of our Founding Fathers coined, "for the common good." Let me introduce you to Somalia, where there's no pesky government and where they don't pay taxes. The Taliban there would see you as one of their brethren; your posts on this issue share so much in common with their line of cynical and simplistic thinking!

thiscanbe, with 72% of all black babies being born into single parent families is most certainly is about race,