Shell game

too bad you didn't take the time to explain exactly how Obamacare cost you your health insurance..

guess the accusation is much more effective then an actual explanatiion

Shell game

Sorry that you fell victim to the standard health insurance practices of dropping you because you were sick and not picking you up because of pre-existing conditions. That's what you are describing and that has been and still is current health insurance practice.

But, thank you for the opportunity to correct the record. Once Health Care Reform (what you call ObamaCare) is in fully place these practices will never happen again. These are two of the major initiatives in HCR and are not in affect yet. What you say you are experiencing has been experienced by countless other Americans. Many of them testified to these facts before congress and that is why these provisions were put into HCR.

Again, I'm sorry for your situation, but you are a victim of health insurance greed, not "Obamacare". If you truly are in this situation, you really should be telling your Congressperson to not repeal HCR. It is your only hope.

My family of four has been without health insurance for years, ever since my wife and I chose to be self-employed. Although our businesses have grown and we live an average middle-income lifestyle, there is no way we are going to pay $14,000/year in premiums and deductibles before realizing any benefits. Had the single-payer or public option gone through, we'd be covered. Thanks GOP for looking out for small business, the self-employed, and middle America.

They are probably referring to the Senate bill that lost the public option. When the public option was lost, so was the tool to depress insurance rates. The insurance companies will use the repubs to weaken the patient care changes and keep the sales advantages. While at the same time they will blame the bill and raise rates! And Obama didn't see it???Or did he just cave???

Shell game....

And just think how many more families or individuals have had their insurance dropped by companies, or health insurance carriers raised rates exponentially, because of the Mandated Universal Health Care Reform legislation.

This is just the tip of the ice berg because of the legislation.

• Health care premiums are expected to skyrocket.
• More businesses are terminating employee health care.
• More families/inviduals will be without health care.

Yep, can't blame it on Obamacare.

The economy was in the toilet before the 08 election. That has nothing to do with 'hope and change' and you referring to it shows a degree of contempt that should be below you. If you want someone to blame, blame Alan Greenspan and Warren Buffet and all of the banks and Wall Street people who raped and pillaged our economy and aren't in the least bit sorry, either.

And you can't lay the blame on the Health Care Reform bill either. If your employer cut insurance and blamed it on that, they were looking for an excuse to cut it anyway, and blaming it on the president was simply convenient. And if it was the insurer, they are LYING and you need to contact your state insurance commission. A place to start is to type 'insurance regulation ' into Google. I'm in Oregon, and it took me about 40 seconds to find the page of regulations and specific info on health insurance laws and the specific link to the page that details the provisions of health care reform. They even have numbers so you could call and talk to a human being. There is no excuse for not being more informed, and no excuse to throw up your hands and blame it on someone else.

Shell Game...I DO NOT believe you.

You give no explanation for how a law that just started coming into effect 2 months ago cost you your insurance. I do not believe you and encourage other readers to take comments like yours with a huge grain of salt.

What a lot of opponents of health care reform refuse to admit is that anyone who has health insurance is being subsidized by the American Public. It may be through their work place, the income they receive from their services or the inflated charges those who have insurance pay for those who do not. It is a 'I have mine, just try to get yours' mentality. Those who do not have insurance pay for those who do everyday in the normal course of life. Anyone against Health Care Reform refuses to admit the hypocrisy of their position. Then again, they may just not understand it.

Jon

you say "sorry shell game for insurance being dropped because you were sick"..(paraphrased)

she never said the insurance was dropped because they were sick!!!

in fact as Family Woman points out - shell game gave "no reason" for their coverage to be dropped!

Obamacare is not good for insuring people either. It is designed to drive insurance companies out of business and increase union memberships. It does little to help real people. It is a powerplay.

I for one believe Shellgame. I know that our family's insurance rates are increasing along with our deductibles, co-pays. Is it actually because of the new healthcare regs or because the insurance company's are trying to raise the rates before the regulators hit full bore? Who knows? It reminds me of that wonderful credit card reform that was supposed to make my life better. Instead, credit card companies, afraid they'd never be able to change terms again, raised rates, ended fixed rates, and did all manner of changes in anticipation.

If you are going to change an industry for the "good of the people," you can't give said industry a four year heads up.

So, yes, the new health care laws increased my rates just like the credit card regulations upped my credit card rates. It may not have been the intent, but it was the probable outcome of the new regulations.

Wait till the loony right gets done aka the Tea Party & their GOPee allies the number will be double that amount as the US begins to look like a third world country.

What an amazing way to create jobs: Give every American health insurance, with a public option to keep private insurers in line.

Imagine how many doctors and nurses and hospitals and clinics and people needed to process the information are going to be needed to take care of everyone from birth to death.

It'd also be great for construction companies, manufacturers of all sorts, transportation, etc. It'd be one big endless party.

Come on! Let's get to work... Oh, wait. The Republicans are in power again. Oh, well, so much for all that.

Sorry, but it wasn't Obamacare that cost you your health insurance. It was because you and your family got sick and used your health insurance. How can the health insurance stockholders and executives make billions if they have to paid claims to people like you. As the man said, "Don't get sick and if you do get sick die quickly". Man, you freeloaders who don't take care of yourselves and expect your health insurance to pay for it! You got what is coming to you.

Of course, if you don't get sick, but your credit score drops below 800, the health insurance company will drop because you aren't good risk.

Ido #1.5

got to love your post

1. next time you give talking points - try to find them from some place else then the back of a T shirt at a Tea Bagger Rally.

2. its great to know your main concern is for those who "may" have a premium increase greater then what they have seen every year since 2000 (increases from 84% - 120% since 2000-2009).

3. it great to know your main concern is more families/individuals will be without coverage..

will these new people without coverage add up to more then the current "59 Million"?

Goodlife #1.11

you say "I agree with shell game"....

what do you agree with? what reason did she give for losing their insurance?

did she say it was because of increased rates?

and how is that "obamacare" since those reforms don't start until 2012???

You are one of the lucky ones if you have never been without healthcare coverage. Thanks to Obamacare your husband will be able to get more health insurance, otherwise he would have gone through the rest of his life at a county facility. That is where people go with no health insurance. Have fun there here..

I would love to hear again how the GOP is "listening" to the American people.

Here's 59 million Americans they aren't listening to.

ir12: I agree with your point. Perhaps we should take your point even further. Let us start from the beginning...

Employee is insured through company. Employer sometimes subsidize part of the insurace (pretax). That pretaxed portion of employer subsidy can now be used for company write off against earnings as one of the deductable. Therefore if the deduction is not there then the company will have to pay tax on the earning/profit. Hence it is literally a "tax incentive" or a form of "tax cut" Since it is now a deficit, then that revenue must be covered by tax payer. So I absolutely agree that it comes on the backs of the workers and the tax payers.

Now we should take this even further by studying the premium increase, the reduction of benefits and the increasing profit margin of these healthcare insurers. What exact service are they providing? They are providing a gambling scenario such that the investors predicts that they will be able profit from the healthy while shedding the sick because the healthy customers will over pay while the sick ones will under pay. Is this a service? Or is this simply a house that operate like a Casino?

The difference is that Casinos are regulated! The difference is that Casinos are not protected against competition (yes, the insurance companies are okay to monopolize like Professional Baseball.) The difference is that the insuance companies annually increase their premium at double digit rates far surpassing that of the single digit inflation. Remember, medicare and social securities operate at approximate 3.7%.

Now if people are sick without insurance, it will fall on the backs of the tax payers. Now if employees are sick with insurance, it will fall on the coverage of the premiums which are tax deductable which is still covered by tax payers. YES, THE insurance companies are double dipping IN THE TAX PAYER TROUGH!!! YES, the Republicans and their new Tea Party branch has convince you chumps to vote against your own interests!!!

Ap - read post 1.11 and obama care is already in motion and is projected to remain in motion till 2016.

You can also search the net for obamacare to get a timeline of what regs kick in and at what time.

Do you always require someone to lead you by the hand??

The level of ignorance in this country is astounding. My hat is off to the GOP and Fox "news". They successfully got middle America to fight against what is good for them and are instead looking out for the rich. Because the middle is the ones getting crushed by this. The poor get Medicaid, the rich can afford it, what does the middle class do that don't have jobs that offer health care. Sounds like most go without. The middle class loses again. Middle class people fighting for the rich should be ashamed.

Goodlife (@ #1.11) -

So, yes, the new health care laws increased my rates

I have seen annual increases in my medical insurance premiums (accompanied by decreases in benefits), for just about as long as long as I can remember. The difference is, within the last several years those increases have been very large ones.

I also suspect there are some savvy employers out there who are being squeezed by this economy and who know an opportunity when they see one: the timing is perfect - cut medical benefits, raise employee premium contributions, pocket the difference and blame it on "Obamacare."

You all can thank Senators Joe Lieberman and Scott Brown for squelching the public option. Lieberman is from (represents the insurance companies) Connecticut, the insurance capitol of the country (Hartford).

Scott Brown was heavily lobbied by Mass Mutual Insurance Company which is on the Mass - Conn border.

They held the key votes!

Obamacare - Bailout for the insurance industry

My single hope for change is the promise that liberal politics always end up in a circular firing squad, and the next two years will be no different.

The time for debate is clearly over. Profiteering insurance companies need to be removed from the health care equation. As long as health care is a profit-driven industry, people will suffer and die so that others may fatten their portfolios.

I know, I know. It's the "American Way." The American way will change.

Shell game

too bad you didn't take the time to explain exactly how Obamacare cost you your health insurance..

guess the accusation is much more effective then an actual explanatiion

Yep, typical "fact free" Tea Party/Republican BS! Let's just throw some on the wall and see if it sticks or if anyone notices the smell!

Shell game....

And just think how many more families or individuals have had their insurance dropped by companies, or health insurance carriers raised rates exponentially, because of the Mandated Universal Health Care Reform legislation.

This is just the tip of the ice berg because of the legislation.

•Health care premiums are expected to skyrocket.
•More businesses are terminating employee health care.
•More families/inviduals will be without health care.
Yep, can't blame it on Obamacare.

Cut the crap....prove it!!

OK, those that are complaining about insurance companies raising their rates this year need to look around. I have Blue Cross Blue Shield and they have increased their premiums 7% per month next year. About the same as any other year. I wonder what will happen if we get the public option. I
think it would force them to be competitive.

The newly elected will not likely do anything other than trying to suck more off from their Sugar Daddy. The changed that the newbies promised to their supporters will never happen, because they don't have the support of the Senate nor the WhiteHouse. This is why the White House and the Democrats pushed so hard the 1st 2 years. Sure, it cost them their jobs, but shouldn't it be about doing what is best for us?

Rememeber that there is another branch, the justice dept. There lay the true legacy of GWBush. Yes, the United decision that pronouced that the corporations are people and in reality have more rights than natural humans is more haunting and stinging than anything thing that GWBush could have done to our economy.

The only parts of Healthcare reform that have taken effect added hundreds of thousands of dependents under age 26. These are some of the healthiest and least expensive patients in regards to medical cost. If anything, this should drive insurance costs down, because ins companies are covering more healthier people.

If you actually had a problem, your problem would be with the insurance company your employer choose and your employer. They are the bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor, not the govt. My company negotiated for a better plan that replaces an ins company that has raised rates every year for years- that was before healthcare reform.

If justice was blind, uninsured TP/GOP/FauxNews watchers would be shown to the door at any hospital or clinic. But because of "socialists" like me who do not want to live in a 3rd world country that leaves the sick and poor in the street to die, you will be treated and I will end up paying your unpaid bill.

shell game could have lost her insurance to obamacare as it is cheaper for a company to pay the fine then to pay for the health coverage. As for insurance going up this Jan 2011 will be the fist time in many years that my co pay for anything is going up.

I wonder what part of the 59 million are illegals.

Mari, I am glad your insurance "co pay" is just going up this year, because my health insurance premiums have gone from $464 a month to $1709 a month in 4 or 5 short years. The premiums in most years have taken a 25% to 35% increase each year. We, of course are small business owners, and have to buy individual insurance and the insurance company (Anthem) is sticking it to us. Anthem holds a basic monopoly in our area with little infiltration by other carriers. These increases prior to this year have had nothing to do with "obama care" It has to do solely with the profits of Anthem and their greed.

How many of YOU Americans voted Boner, MConman and Can't or else IN????

Did you people think it was going to be a free ride to cut off your noses to spite "commie/socialist" prez O's Face???? These Republican TeaBaggers Do NOT Play Around. They eat their OWN and Everyone Else's. NO Healthcare AT All is what You Rocket Scientists voted for while the RepuBags stick our TaxPayers Money in their Own TAX FREE Pockets While Your Family Suffers!! Did You really think these guys whom YOU Voted IN House Majority CARE about You and/or Your Family????????????? Their Motto/Maxim??? You Sick??? Die Quick!!!!! Fools.

Well if 59 million Americans don't have healthcare that would mean 241 million do. How Obamacare will cover the cost of this is unknown. But I think it's one of those ideas that will bankrupt itself. Unless we go back to about a 49% income tax rate. You can't have both increased social programs and low income tax rates. And Countries that have socialized medicine usually have higher tax rates to cover it. Or they lack other programs we have.

Or they lack other programs we have??? WTF are you talking about? What programs???

I would imagine that with 100% socialized medicine there is no need for Medicare as all is the same. I believe SS still exists in most places in one form or another. If you haven't, watch the movie "Sicko". It'll give you a lot of insight as to other countries. Also, there would be no need for Medicaid, as once again all is the same. 100% social medicine, I can deal with. We're trying to walk the tightrope between the two and I'm not sure it's working?

Well, sounds like you are looking for a welfare handout rather than making a bet with an insurance company that you will get expensively sick while they bet you won't. I have refused to make that bet for the past 62 years. I figure I've saved over $120,000 in premiums.

If I were one who runs to the doctor for every little thing, I suspect I'd still have come out ahead paying out of pocket. But since I don't run to the doctor for every little thing (only seen a doctor twice in my life), I really have come out ahead by not betting against the house with an insurance company.

I seriously resent the government's attempts to force me to do so. Sharpening my pencil, I see I'll still come out ahead by paying the fine instead of paying off an insurance company.

You can't have both increased social programs and low income tax rates.

Well.. the GNOPers bitch, whine and moan about anyone getting anything for FREE so what makes you think that any of these social programs should be FREE ? I for one would be damned GLAD to pay extra in taxes if it meant health benefits. Are you people just dense or what ??

I think it's the GNOPers that are the ones that want something for free.... anything and everything is "ok" as long as you don't dare raise their taxes. GOD FORBID they actually have to pay for something that benefits anyone OTHER than their own greedy asses.

Blue Star, I agree with you.

They "talk the talk" but when it comes to presenting verifiable, politically-neutral historical facts, what can they present as evidence, as proof?

Links to blogs, links to openly biased sites, Fox News talking points, info taken out of context, right-wing marketed fabrications later proven wrong by anti-hoax sites and independent watchdog groups, emotional name-calling, political echo-chamber mottoes and mindless echo chamber accusations ("socialists," "communists," "libtards" etc.), vulgarities, "flaming," and "dissing" that one expects from adolescents and narcissist cynics, suppositions they turn into "facts," or sites with authors posing as experts because they stole seemingly official-sounding content from other bloggers, other PAC's and lobbyist sites, amateur propaganda videos, political agenda "hit pieces," pseudo-intellectual double-speak, Joseph Goebbels and Glenn Beck-style, influential speaking tactics, etc. etc.

For them, they want to us to accept what they say at face value. No need to fact-check, no need to question. Just accept what they say, as gospel.

---------------------------------------------

Reveling in ignorance: Fashionable but dangerous

Excerpts:

A friend of mine Facebooked this little dart of insight the other day: “America doesn’t need better leaders. It needs better followers.”

A little glib, sure, but dead-on about where we are as an electorate as the front bumper of Election Day bears down on us — accepting, often rewarding, even celebrating candidates and figureheads who espouse nut job views, reject legitimate expertise, embrace ignorance.

Sarah Palin, who, New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd says, “has made ignorance fashionable.”

Sharron Angle, whose comments about Second Amendment remedies and government as idolatry are only two exhibits on a long evidence table of ridiculousness.

Christine O’Donnell, the Tea Party Republican vying for a Senate seat in Delaware. She uncorked this stunner during a recent debate: “Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?” Never mind that you could stock a law library with the decisions and scholarship on this issue — the word “separation” doesn’t appear in the First Amendment. So O’Donnell, a major party’s candidate for a full-time job as a member of an incredibly select lawmaking body, had to ask.

In a reasonable world, we the people would have hooted these folks out of the public square. Instead, Palin’s making bank yowling “Obamacare” to cheering crowds. O’Donnell, behind in the polls, remains a Tea Party darling. And Angle, according to pollster Nate Silver, has the edge in Nevada. Accepted, rewarded, celebrated.

I get that people are confused and cheesed-off by the gridlock of status-quo politics. In a lot of cases, that’s not unreasonable.

But there’s a dangerous notion at work here, that the less tainted you are by actual knowledge of how government works, or by an accurate grasp of history, or by a belief in science, the better politician you’ll make.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/25/reveling-ignorance-fashionable-dangerous/

Yes we do have insurance and pay for it.It is every body elses we don't want to pay for.

Do you have any issue with paying for an uninsured person's ER visit? You've been doing that forever without complaining.

HCR wasn't supposed to affect everybody else's insurance as explained, but it most definitely is. Nobody except the extremely poor will benefit from this program. Everybody, insured and uninsured, will pay the expenses of maintaining and administering the program. Those who can pay something will and we'll pick up the rest. I believe at the very least the Supreme will request a public option? Will it be enough?

Well I believe Shellgame. When I had a job and had insurance my husband and I couldn't afford to use it. When he was added to my health plan, it became a family plan and the 1,000 out of pocket per year went to 4,000 per year. The same plan that I had 3 yrs ago thru my prev employer now costs the employes 300.00 more per month. Many have dropped the plan and go without because they can't afford it. Obama care didn't find and fix the root cause of such high increases. Now the ins cos are raising rates real high to make up for what's coming in that darn bill. Companaies are skimping on coverages and requiring higher copays and deductables to help keep their portion under control. So yes Obama care is the cause of all the misery felt by a lot of people this fall as new rates and such come out. Sorry you liberals but this bill has got to go. (I do not have health ins. I can't afford it)

If Sarah Palin and the tea party orchestra get their way, no one will have health care. Talk about death panels.

John-1022651 - Let Me guess..... You helped vote in the republican/teabag criminals AS Long AS YOU GOT YOURS!!!!! John, what goes around, comes around.......You will not get away with it.

Well, let's see. I've had no health insurance since May, and two weeks ago I rolled my ankle so hard my tibia popped out then back in. The bruising was so pretty I want to paint my truck that color. I think I know how to tape it so it can continue to heal, but the persistent swelling is worrisome. I don't know, will I need surgery for torn whatever? I can't afford that. And 59 million Americans without health insurance (read that : without health care). Let's see, how's that jingle go? If we don't have insurance, we'll have to buy the government's insurance. But if we can't afford to buy that insurance, we'll face a stiff fine? Somebody tell me that never got passed as part of the package! But still, that's a hefty chunk of dough to pour into the Federal coffers. Maybe we'll use it to bail out a few Savings and Loans.

The main thing everyones seems to forget is that the health care premiums have been sky rocketing for several years now. Not just since we passed the health care. I am one o those who have no coverage. What they offer at my husband job would take half his monthly take home. So it really comes down to house payment or health insurance. Food and heat or health insurance. No I am not rich but i work for everything I have. It may not be much but it's mine. Like most people that I know that don't have coverage, we don't want a hand out but we would like to be able to afford it

I would put it passed these neocons to push legislation to make it legal for a hospital to refuse service if you can't show you have insurance. The neocons want poor people to die and to die quickly.

Poor people have medicaid and are covered better than most.

For the love of god turn off FOX news for a change and step outside and see the suffering Americans are enduring. We are going through one of the worst recessions with millions uninsured. We have children with pre existing conditions denied coverage all the while Health care CEO are raking in billions. Stop taking the sides of the filthy rich who could care less if you live or not and pay attention to those around you.

Health care premiums began to skyrocket significantly in 2007 when insurance companies realized that HCR would be on the election menu. They got out ahead of any possible limitations by raising premiums at usurious rates. Recently, Anthem and Wellmark (both BC/BSs) announced they would no longer provide child-only policy coverage. Well, CA passed a law that said if insurance companies drop child-only coverage, they won't be allowed to sell any individual policies in the state for 5 years. Every state should adopt this law.

HR3962 has a stipulation on p. 22 or 23 about premiums not being charged over 125% of what others are being charged (off hand, I think it pertains to pre-existing or age criteria, can't remember exactly which). So, the insurance companies pad premiums for 3 years with 10, 20, 30% increases, so by the time that provision kicks in, (1) they've built in their profits, (2) the government is going to pick up the difference for those on the exchange, and (3) we are all still paying for everyone's health care.

So that public option thingy is going to start looking pretty good here in about a year or two, Republican majority in the House or not. When people and their children start dying because insurance companies raised premiums way too far out of sight, that public option will be implemented - and the Repubs will be back out on their well-padded butts. If we had eliminated the insurance middle man in the first place, we could have saved about 6% of the GDP, or about $800 billion - which could have gone directly for HEALTH CARE COSTS and not to insurance companies.

Jon, you do realize that you pay for the uninsured via your taxes and (increasing) insurance premiums, right?

Why can't some of you understand. We all want health care reform, do you get that. We just did not want this crap that was passed. We all agree that there are people out that need help in getting health care and that is not a problem, we do not mind helping them. The few things that did not need to happen were leave those who have health care alone if they can afford it and are happy with what they have. Yes we do need to do something about illness that cause insurance companies not to accept you. We also need a good RX plan for all, mostly for the Seniors. Close the loop holes on the illegals, i.e. anchor babies, only if it is life or death, leave Medicare alone, reform Medicaid make the rules stricter and the verifying more in depth. Of course there is more but I think I hit the high spots. We did not need a government mandate for health care and as I see it the government wants to control more of our lives. Do you know that we will be paying for this carp right out of your bank account? That is right it will be taken out automatically. Don't believe me go read the darn thing it is in there. As always just my opinion.

I am up in the air about the mandate. I am however disappointed that the public OPTION came off the table (I don't want something free but I want to pay into...something (disclaimer: I am uninsurable on the current "free" market because of a chronic condition)).

When you have insurance companies as public entities that answer to share holders, how can you expect the insurance product to work as...expected.

Huge cave to the insurance industry on both parts, IMHO. They get millions of new customers (or else) and no competition from a large not for profit entity.

The free market answer to the health insurance industry that answers to shareholders is a colossal failure when it comes to helping people who have the audacity to get sick. I'd like to see McCain, Paul (both of them), and even Obama go out and get health insurance on the free market. Most likely denied even the opportunity to purchase health insurance.

Health care costs started rising after the implementation of Medicare. The new health care law will make costs rise even more. The government is also robbing Medicare to "pay" for the new HC law. There is no "fix" for the decrease in Medicare payments to doctors. How many will continue to care for the elderly with a decrease in payment of 23%. Would you continue to do your job for 23% less? Yeah, they make LOTS of money. But they put in years of education and SAVE LIVES. Medical costs are going up because of new technologies, lack of tort reform and the inability to purchase across state lines. Doctors also run every test under the sun so they won't get sued for not doing everything.

Adding more layers of bureaucracy will not bring down health care costs. You don't have to have a degree in accounting to figure that out.

If people receiving Medicare and Medicaid were given vouchers to go buy their own Health Insurance, maybe the costs would go down. That would cut out some of the fraud by having private insurance responsible for payments. They do a better job of policing the industry.

How on earth do private insurance companies "police the industry"?

If one raises the rates, the rest follow.

What causes health care costs to rise? Forget about your party, or your rhetoric, what actually causes health care costs to rise 200-500% faster than inflation? Is it evil Republicans? No. Silly Democrats? Yes. How? By injecting fake government money into the equation. If you and I purchased health care directly, without insurance or other buffers, it is likely costs would be much closer to a dentist visit than a doctor visit.

No, it's not actually that simple, but this constant name calling is completely pointless.

Obama and his crowd decided that this monstrous 2,000+ page bill was the answer. Some idiots said "well at least they passed something". So that's why we pay all of these millionaires to serve in Congress? To pass "something?"

I have to ask - why build a bill that no human could comprehend without months if not years of reading? Why not break it out into 10 - 20 smaller bills that could actually be understood?

My guess is because the bigger the bill, the easier it is to hide the truth from us.

The one thing we know for sure, having 90 years of "income tax" history to look at, and it is this. Politicians lie. They lie alot. They also mislead. They use assumptions to take more and more money from us. They waste tremendous amounts of this money. 90 years ago no income tax. 90 years later, they take several TRILLION from us each year, and have on top of that overspent by $13 trillion. They plan on spending a TRILLION more than they expect to take in next year. And the next. And the next one after that.

We cannot afford to insure everyone for everything with no cost caps. The plan won't work. No matter how compassionate you or I are, we cannot afford this "dependent class" that our government keeps adding to.

Yes we should care for our old, our young, our frail. But not with the monstrosity that was passed. We must do better, and we can.

America was founded on the individuals right to choose!

We were a capitalist society. There were and should be, consequences for the choices one makes, not entitlements and bailouts.

America still to this day, offers the OPPORTUNITY for a inidividual to succeed,

Being in America should NOT BE A ENTITLEMENT GUARANTEE for being born, which is where we as a nation are headed.

The question remains, are we in America a socialist, communist, or a capitalist country?

Why should I plan my life, work to "get ahead", only to be "punished" (taxed) for my efforts, to "reward" those who did not do so?

When will people/government realize there are thieves, liars, cheats, "milking" the American entitlement system, at the expense of the hard working, tax paying, American, and our government has failed to protect our tax dollar in the US, by policing the government entitlement programs?

Government Crooks, bought and paid for by "special interest" looking out for their entitlements!

Have insurance premiums rose steadily over the years? Yes they have, but not this much or this fast. BO admitted in a speech that they couldn't control rising health costs, but maybe contain them or slow them down. The reality is they're still rising as much as or higher than normal and all sorts of little tidbits are coming into the equation that were unanticipated. Assume that 59 million people are uninsured. Where do you think the government will get the funds to pay for the program and remember the costs will continue to rise. There is no logic or rationale for it. Employers will raise the employee's contribution, cancel benefits, or drop insurance altogether.

Paul, 300 million people in Europe would call your analysis idiotic. Precisely because they have socialized medicine, they pay less than half of what do, have longer life expectancies, and are far, far more happy with their health care than Americans are.

Private insurers skim up to 30% or more off the top to do what? Pay billions to employees with no other job than to work at denying coverage to people who need health care, while providing billions more for their executives to again, do what? The government does better management with 3% overhead because they have no incentive to milk the system for personal gain.

skeptic, health care costs have been skyrocketing since 2000 at least. avg increase in premiums 11 to 14%. The current trend merely echoes the previous trend. The drastic and unsustainable increase in insurance cost was one of the reasons for attempting HCR. That has not changed. Tea party/GOP activists poisoned the HCR debate with lies like Death Panels which weakened the case for health care coops, the best of the various so-called public options. Having poisoned the bill they now want to kill it off entirely leaving us with 59 million uninsured and climbing, skyrocketing costs, insurance companies refusing to treat people who get sick, and all the other previous problems. The GOP plan is to de-regulate health care and allow scam operators to set up shop in red states resulting in the biggest transfer of wealth in human history.

ceecee-540789 healthcare reform is one thing. But with the healthcare reform that recently passed, it did nothing to address insurance premiums and has actually caused prices to rise even more.

The truth is that the cost of delivering care must be addressed. That has not happened, nor is it possible to impact the cost of care delivery by a lot. We have a rapidly aging population that needs more medical care. To cover those expenses, insurance premiums are increased on everyone. Wait till these baby boomers hit Medicare. The amount of money needed to fund Medicare will also need to increase or that well will also run dry.

A point well made. Health care costs aren't constant. They are constantly increasing. That means the cost of HCR will continue to increase as people get older, more cost, more care. Medicare and SS---same. Decisions will have to be made. I'm in favor of raising the $106,000 SS cap to unlimited. Some state pension plans use a 2 and 3 tier system depending on the hire date. The retirement age has already raised from 65 to 67 and there's talk of doing away with retirement at 62 altogether. Nothing like getting your first check in the coffin. #1 on the agenda----the tax cuts. Then, DADT or HCR.

bmilleroh

Do you have any issue with paying for an uninsured person's ER visit? You've been doing that forever without complaining.

Actually they do bring up a good point here. We hear you and I agree, from now on when you visit an emergency room you should have to show proof that you are an American citizin and you are actually responsible enough to have obtained health insurance. If not you call immigration and have them escort you back across the border. Just think of the money we would save?!

What hospital in this country would turn away a female in labor or a badly injured accident victim over a green card. In theory, that's nice. In reality, it doesn't work that way. I worked for a hospital where a farm girl was impregnated 3 times by 3 different migrant farm workers. The state picked up the tab all 3 times including having her tubes tied as she couldn't keep her britches up. She was a citizen. They weren't. Un-named fathers and no child support at all. I would expect that welfare picked them up when they left? Green cards were supposed to be mandatory for all services. The further south you go---the more of this you'll see. A badly injured patient is just not going to get turned away.

follow the yellow brick road.

What hospital in this country would turn away a female in labor or a badly injured accident victim over a green card.

Damn this is awesome! Liberals actually contributing to and working for the good of this country! Thanks follow, ok what we do is post at all border crossings in multiple places so as to be able to be viewed by drivers and pedestrians alike. In multiple languages.

"Its the Land of the Free, not the Free to Land" Before crossing take into consideration, we are not the land of entitlements and you are personally responsible for all expenses you incur. If in labor or in your last trimester of pregnancy you may not enter until after you have given birth. Thank You, hugs, kisses, and warm fuzzies to ya. Have a Great Day!. The United States of America."

OMG some people are so stupid, Your premiums are going to continue to rise, It has nothing to do with obamacare. I work for an insurance company and it's like this. Insurance is a must have, so insurance companies can raise the rates sky high because they know people have to have it. It's called supply and demand. Now for you dumb bells who blame Obama because your premiums went up, you really need to finish school or go back. Obamacare would have made your premiums go down because the big insurance companies would have more insurance companies to compete with. Now you can bet that when and if the GOP repeals obamacare your insurance premiums will go through the roof. Big companies are punishing us because of who's in office. Now all the stupid ass, unemployed, uninsured dummies who voted for the GOP, you'll get exactly what you asked for. Deal with it. Why would you vote for someone that does not want you to have insurance that you can afford? Stupid

Gee Bill_Meeks, You must be pretty young then because obviously you were not around during the Bush/Cheney years. They completely destroyed our economy; allowed abuse in the health care/insurance industry, started two wars without paying for them (clearly lied to the american public to push their own power agenda); cutting taxes during a war (are you kidding me), incentized companies to ship jobs overseas...the list is endless.

"It certainly is counter to President Obama's argument that he is bending the cost curve down."

How can you possibly say this when most of the programs have not even started yet? What part of the 10 year plan did you not understand. The CBO ( that you righties seem to forget) showed substantial savings over a 10 year period.

The 3-5 page paper proposed by the republicans covered an additional 3 million people and costs more money. I do not believe it is the socialistic hyperbole that you imply when a country wants to make sure that the less fortunate, elderly have health care options.

Also, the requirement that if you can pay you have to is totally reasonable. This does adjust the curce because then you do not have people milking the system by not having paid coverage only to expect healthxcare when they eventally require it. I am tired of paying for those that elect to not have insurance (when they could afford it.) Those that do not pay; but demand service raises the costs for all.

If the Republicans think they have a clear mandate for repeal, they will find their control will be short-lived. Just take a look at the polls. There is no mandate to repeal the HCR.

nonnah, Obama wanted a public option to "keep insurance companies honest". the best public option under consideration was Health Care Coops, which are to health insurance what credit unions are to banking. Local, member owned, non-profit, service oriented. Regional health care coops would have been able to provide better coverage at lower price than current levels and would have forced insurance companies to compete or fail, with no bail out. This idea was under consideration in the Senate Finance Committe when Palin came out with her idiotic "Death Panels" charge, which accomplished her goal of turning the HC debate into a circus.

thanks.

yeswedid20101:

You're absolutely right.

By the way, if your house ever catches fire, put it out yourself. Why should I pay out of my pocket to protect you and your personal property?!?

Health Insurance vs Health Care - Get it straight.

You can get plenty of "health care" by going to the emergency room. They cannot turn you away.

What people are complaining about is health insurance. The claim in the article about 32 million being covered is bunk on two counts; first, it is not available until 2014 and second, people have to apply and be approved for it - it's not automatic.

If more people had jobs, namely in the private sector, they would have access to pooled health insurance coverage. Deal with the jobs situation. Give companies tax breaks to provide pooled health insurance to their employees.

Other countries are getting out of nationally funded healthcare because it is bankrupting them and the quality of care is poor. We have the best medical resources available here in the U.S. If this healthcare reform actually moves forward, getting in to see a doctor, specialist, or surgeon will take forever and the quality of care will be poor because medical staff will be over worked. It will also cost the individual American that actually works a lot more for government insurance than it does for our present coverage. Currently we only have to cover our family. It will increase a lot when we have start covering other peoples families.

it is likely costs would be much closer to a dentist visit than a doctor visit.

Has anyone asked the dentist about this? I have mine doesn't take medicare or any of the government payment plans. Why? Costs to much for the paperwork, hours and hours for filling out the forms, and getting paid is a nightmare. He says he would rather give the patience a discount than, try to get money from the government programs.

AngieB28:

You are wrong on every count. Can you provide any references to back up anything you said? Other countries already pay less than half per person for health care, on average, than the U.S., and they have longer life expectancies and more satisfaction with their care. I'm not aware of any country that wants a U.S.-style system. I'm sure you believe what you're saying, but it's just not backed up by reality.

take a look at what is happening in England today. they trashed the Conservative parties building. give it time...we are heading in the same direction. the war between the rich and the poor is about to get ugly. soon their (rich) covert actions will back fire, and they will either fight or run to china; the new land of opportunity and slave labor. the sad part is that our complacency and partisan retoric will have allowed it to come to all out war.

politically, who is to blame......both parties!!! Nixon opened the door to china. Clinton sighed NAFTA.....etc........we have been caught up in their shell game or good cop bad cop tactics. good luck when the crap hits the fan folks.

59 million today and next year ? the army of protesters is growing and the battle lines are becoming well defined.

here is a little bit of information for you...did you know that obama was responsible for the extinction of the dinosaur? Ha Ha Ha.......

idiots playing a shell game with the rich andpowerful. grow up and use what little of that socialized education i paid for. i don't have one child and went to Private school and the only thing that i have to complain about is we got kids that can't even make change at the store without the machine figuring it out for them. another fraud played out by the rich and powerful...dumb them down.

I think a lot of people are overlooking what seems to be the bigger picture here. A lot of the states have populations that exceed the populations of countries that everyone touts as having better and or free health care.Just the number listed in this article as uninsured exceeds the population of many countries.

It has been said that some things are too big to fail. It could also be that some things grow too big not to fail-- Perhaps the USA might be one of those things if we continue down the present road.

Other countries are getting out of nationally funded healthcare

Name one. Every country in the world that provides nationalized healthcare covers its citizens at a lower cost per capita than the US does (even when you include all the uninsured in the US in the equation.) And many of them have BETTER healthcare and better health outcomes than we do.

The last World Health Organation ranking of health systems put the US in 37th place worldwide. (Behind Colombia, Dominica, Costa Rica and Singapore.) And yet we have people fighting tooth and nail to keep us right where we are.

As was explained in the article, people with no insurance let their illness develop to the point where they end up in the ER which gets paid by--us. It makes more sense to offer preventative care.

You may not have noticed it, but your taxes have gone DOWN in the past two years. And the President is adamant that there will continue to be tax cuts for the middle class.

Well, is a good thing the Republicans got control of the House. I am sure they will now fight for the middle class. Two years from now you should be better off because of their efforts.

enemyplanet......"...everybody loves free stuff."

Who is EVERYBODY ?? Please explain.

Yep, they just discovered very high radiation coming from some "unknown material" in the Milky Way. Could be a WORM HOLE, BLACK HOLE, or UNKNOWN PLANET. Is that where your ENEMY PLANT is located ?? Must be.

enemyplanet....The solution is to start making the rich--people making $quarter miliion or more-- pay more.

The middle class (and don't even try telling me that $250,000 is middle class!) get stuck because the rich keep all their money. Trickle down is a myth! They keep their money or they make "charitable donations" to the institutions THEY use most, like fancy universities and art museums---and politics.

Taxes on everything known to man have gone up so our taxes have gone up.

LOL!!!

MAW.... Blanket statements dont PRESENT FACTS: Try explaining which taxes have GONE UP????

If you search on the WEB... Look for Tax Schedule for 2008, 2009, and 2010

They will tell you that your TAXES went DOWN... but I know LOCAL and States taxes did go UP... So GO YELL at THE STATE Government TEABAGGERS

Because that is NOT Obama's FAULT!!!

Oh, but Family Woman, don't you know that what you are proposing is, according to Fox News, the Republicans and Tea Partiers, is <shudder> "class warfare"?!

It's so strange when it's ok to make things harder on the middle and lower class, but trying to make the rich pay their proportionate share of the freight is evil class warfare. Well, here's a middle class woman who's tired of the rich making class warfare against me.

luitgard - "and I am from the government to help you" lol!

ron-895187 - you betcha, my taxes went down because I got moved to a lower bracket! lmao!

And the leftist talking about paying your fair share are always the ones NOT paying a damn thing.

enemyplanet,

I am not looking for anyone to foot my insurance bill...all I am looking at is being able to become part of a "small business" group...which in turn will allow me to purchase insurance at an affordable rate.

if you haven't figured it out yet, the rich get richer and the middle class get the bill every time republicans gain power. why else would they support a tax cut for billionaires? figure it out -- the rich have the money to fund advertisements and foundations to support "grass roots" organizations that just happen to support their tax preferences, lack of support for the middle class and business advantages. the american congress is bought and paid for. i a disgusted with the american electorate -- the deserved getting screwed because they don't even take into account what is in their own best interests -- they just go for a sound bite like "don't tread on me" some other such nonsense while they pay for tax cuts for billionaires and 30 percent of uninsured americans who walk into really expensive emergency rooms because they have no insurance -- but hey, the insurance companies still make money, so who cares?

As long as the people in Washington are wealthy Lawyers what type of laws do you think will be passed. No one votes against their own self-interest. Who do you think will vote for a flat tax-how many people would that put out of work. You now have already seen how the change in this healthcare is going to work. And people with businesses write it off as a tax deduction for a business expense.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Devil, but I'm pretty sure that I subsidize you and quite a few other conservatives to boot.

On average, those of us in the blue states subsidize those in the red states, and those of us in strongly Democratic areas such as Silicon Valley do so with a vengeance.

JimCa, you ain't seen nuthin' yet. If the GOP's plan gets passed, all the health insurance companies will rush to set up operations in LA, AL, MS, and other states with little or no regulation and no prosecuion for fraud. Red States. Scammers with the ethics of Bernie Madoff will sell you cheap insurance, then refuse to pay claims, safe in the knowledge that their GOP buddies in the state house will never prosecute. This would result in the largest transfer of wealth in the history of human commerce. That's the GOP plan. It will enrich their buddies and bankrupt the nation and won't improve anyone's health one bit.

REPEAL taxpayer-provided heathcare for politicians!!!!!

B707320C

Well, is a good thing the Republicans got control of the House. I am sure they will now fight for the middle class. Two years from now you should be better off because of their efforts.

No the GOP is what caused this problem where have you been for the last 8 years? On mars?

Also for all of you who keep barking that govt is the promblem and not the solution. If we didn't have govt to put regulations in place BIG companies would screw the hell out of us. Where there is not regulations all hell is going to break out. That's why the GOP wants to reduce the size of govt so the BIG companies can continue to send the jobs overseas and still get those hugh tax breaks. You think things are bad now, wait until the GOP opens the the gates up for the BIG companies to run wild. But that's what some people want right? right america proved last tuesday thats exactly what they want. I know some people who supported the GOP and I know some people who didn't even vote. The day after the elections the GOP starting saying that the first thing they would do is make sure Obama would be a 1 term president, I told those folk I know who supported this mess to shut up and don't complain about Jobs and money becuase you had 8 years worth of proof that the GOP was not concerned about the poor or the middle class so we get what we ask for.

No the GOP is what caused this problem where have you been for the last 8 years? On mars?

the public school system....is it not great what they have done with our children, while we where preoccupied with two incomes trying to make ends meet.

put your hand on your heart and repeat....

i pledge allegiance to the rich and powerful of the united states of America, and to the republicans (corporations), for which they stand, one nation... under tyranny...with no economic liberty, nor justice at all.

enjoy the riots!!!!! (see England, France and Greece for a preview)

Pretty sobering stuff:

From the NY Times:

Our Banana Republic

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.

C.E.O.'s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.

most of the republicans probably don't have a pot to piss in and they still think the republican politicians are talking about them. take a look at the links provided by RealAmericansFirst and get a grip!!!

years ago a million dollars was a lot of money, but today it's a house, a car and maybe a 5 year vacation....get sick and it's all gone.....fools!!!

And here I thought that after the Soviet Union collapsed the vile ideology of communism was dead. But I find I was wrong. It has found a new home in the Democrat Party.

B707320C You're being facetious right ? Because if you seriously believe what you just said you're mentally unbalanced and should seek psychiatric help ASAP.

REPEAL Taxpayer-Provided Healthcare for Politicians!

This country can't afford to pay insurance for lazy do-nothings (See: Republicans)

We pay more and get less that anyone in the developed world. Our maternal and infant mortality rates are disgusting- even with the CYA 'just in case' obscene rates of c-sections. But we can't spend money on proper prenatal care, and education of course, because that costs too much...

'A stitch in time saves nine', and a dollar spent on preventative care save four later on. What part of that equation are we not getting?

Government is the problem - NOT the solution. All of the institutions that are getting rich from health care (insurance, hospitals, doctors, pharma, and trial lawyers) are protected by government policy/regulation while blaming the "other guys" for the high cost of health care. Government will choke you (the entire society for that matter) to death with debt while claiming to take care of you because they are too cowardly or corrupted to make the real and difficult decisions. They will ignore a thousand people covertly dying if they can overtly prove they kept one alive.

Unenlightened one. The government is the problem because it is run for the benefit of the corporations. Don't you get that?

It's not that government itself is an evil. If it's not run by the people, it is going to fail the people.

REPEAL Taxpayer-Provided Healthcare of Politicians!!!

Bill York

The health care industry (especially insurance) leads the American business strategy of giving less for more. With double digit percentage increases in cost each year this situation will only worsen.

And yet you continue to pay them. Who does that make the idiot?

The best thing we can do to lower heath care costs is to break the monopoly the government has given doctors, hospitals, and drug dealers. Make them compete for our business. It is also essential that we have to think about cost every time we run to the doctor. Having a third party pay distorts the market for health care. People should have to pay cash for the services they consume.

There was no bickering on both sides of the aisle. The Republicans were shut out of the sessions and their ideas weren't used. This bill was all about power and controlling people.

The Republicans had ideas on health insurance? What planet were you on? Death panels were the only Republican idea on health insurance. They only offered a three page sheet of "ideas" after the bill had passed both houses.

Republicans were SHUT OUT!!! LOL !!

I watched the C-Span coverage on Health Care... I seen plenty of Republicans speaking and providing ideas for Health care

Shut Out my FOOT!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Agree. Democrats had the majority while Republicans threatened to use filibuster, and they managed to pass a much-compromised bill. It's not ideal, but it's a good start. Why some people keep on saying it's about power and controlling people? Isn't majority rule one of our basic constitutional principles?

How can anyone be so heartless, knowing 59 million people without health insurance, still decide to do nothing? And, worst of all, blame those people who decided to do something, calling them bullies and worse.

We need to expose these people of their real intents.

maxk - and we have seen the results.

has no one questioned the following as reported in the article?

Nearly 59 million Americans went without healthcare insurance coverage for at least part of 2010, many of them with conditions or diseases that needed treatment, federal health officials said on Tuesday.

They said 4 million more Americans went without insurance in the first part of 2010 than during the same time in 2008.

The findings have implications for U.S. healthcare reform efforts. A bill passed in March promises to get health insurance coverage to 32 million Americans who currently lack coverage.

this is a difference of 27 million people, who will be the lucky ones covered?

MAW, you either have severe memory loss or total delusion going for you.

Did you pay attention at ALL to the endless debate on the health care bill? Did you not see the Democrats do everything but kiss Olypia Snow and Susan Collins' senatorial asses, give away the single-payer option to satisfy Chuck Grassley, all of whom then STILL refused to vote for the bill? It was the classic Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown even after promising that this time she wouldn't.

The fact that the "Party of NO" who refused to negotiate, compromise or cooperate have now convinced people like you that they were SHUT OUT, amazes me, but demonstrates to me why Republicans constantly underfund education and seek to cut college tuition grants to the poor and middle class.

Keep 'em stupid = keep 'em controllable. And you are the poster child.

Barry said everybody would be insured when 30 million lacked health insurance and now we have 59 million that at some point lacked it last year?

Man, these numbers are not adding up, and Obamacare is only going to cost lower income families more for health insurance and reduce the quality of their care - the very issues that Obamacare supposedly would resolve if only we all would let the government manage our health care dollars......what a true scam.

i get the feeling that if 95% of the country had no health insurance, the voices against a national health plan would mysteriously out number those in favor. i know it sounds rediculas, but i have been watching the practice of cutting off your nose to spite your face become increasingly popular.

lets face it, we are now a nation of idiots. no, my mistake. we are not a nation. we are just a bunch of people who just happen to live in the same place. there are no social bonds between us. why that would be socialism. so, F%$# my neighbor...i got my own problems.

Penn, I'm sorry you feel that way. When you get tired of shallow friends and being lonely, please reach out and do something nice for someone, just because...not to get something back.

Penn, I'm sorry you feel that way. When you get tired of shallow friends and being lonely, please reach out and do something nice for someone, just because...not to get something back.

do you mean something like advocate a national health plan? ok!!! penn advocates a national health plan. free health care for everyone. i will pay the extra taxes, and yes, i do have health insurance and i am lucky to have what i need so i won't be directly benefiting from my act of kindness.

how about you? are you ready to do something nice for nothing in return? if not, im sorry you feel that way. when you get tired of your shallow friends and being lonely, please reach out and do something nice for someone, just because it is the remedy you have suggested.

lets face it, we are now a nation of idiots. no, my mistake. we are not a nation. we are just a bunch of people who just happen to live in the same place. there are no social bonds between us. why that would be socialism. so, F%$# my neighbor...i got my own problems.

Were you just being cynical? I read it like that's your outlook on life. Was I mistaken? I do nice stuff all the time for people with no return. It's a lifestyle thing for me. And only the size of it rises and falls with my personal fortune. I lost my job in May, but I can still rake my neighbor's yard. It's not that I think I'm anything special...at best I hope it's contagious. At worst I'm that way because that's how I think everyone should be. And really, people who say "*&^)& my neighbor, I have my own problems" doesn't really get it. So someone like you would take advantage of someone like me without a moment's hesitation...not that I even do it for a thank you. And unless of course, you weren't serious.

Republicans have done nothing but whine about health care reform and REfused to work with Democrats in getting a comprehensive bill that would be fair to all Americans. Just like we don't get tax cuts because THE RPuBLiCANS want tax cuts for the WEALTHY or no one gets them. How does that help the majority of Americans? It doesn't. The wealthy 1% do not give jobs to the rest of us - they go overseas. We, in Ohio, got a Republican idiot as Governor who promised jobs. Before sworn into office, he has vowed to return millions of Gov't dollars instead of putting in a mass transit system and putting Ohioans to work. He has also vowed to get rid of "obamacare". For the record, Obama care is American Health care that Republicans were asked to contribute to. Some actually did, but none would vote for it. I see a perfect country where there are no Republicans - just Americans who care about other Americans.

Levi777;

So someone like you would take advantage of someone like me without a moment's hesitation...not that I even do it for a thank you. And unless of course, you weren't serious.

levi777, i want to be a nation, but people are increasingly becoming cut throats. you can experience what i am talking about by simply taking a ride in the car and watch how people drive........like i said we are no longer a nation. just a bunch of people in a fish bowl and the water is evaporating..........

i check in on an elderly gentlemen twice a week .......it is a 120 mile round trip. i have been doing it for 5 years.

there are no social bonds between us. why that would be socialism. so, F%$# my neighbor...i got my own problems.

i wrote this statement to reflect what has seemingly become the American attitude, not the way i think. please!!!

Pursuit of happiness does not include health care coverage. It means that there is a level playing field for all to create a good life for themselves. It doesn't mean that the government using tax payer dollars from those that have worked hard to create a good life for themselves should pay for everyone else who hasn't. Look to every universal health care system...they are failing. In France there is a 19% income tax to cover health insurance...and still 90% of people buy additional insurance for themselves and their families. Yep that system is working out real well...that means if you make $40K a year, you are paying $7,600 in taxes to cover just your health insurance...and then you need to go buy more!! Please!! Entitlement programs lead to lazy people. Get the government working on creating jobs, improving the economy...that is the only way this country will survive. Debt and more debt from giving those that have not everything they feel they deserve...well, people are not going to work harder to pay more taxes. Look at France now...riots over working until age 62 instead of 60.

Could'nt have said it better myself.

Why should my pursuit of my happiness be mandated to include paying the cost of your life's circumstances? From my perspective, it's not the government's business to mandate to me that I obtain health insurance for myself or to subsidize your health insurance costs. Those are issues for the risk pool not for a bunch of bureaucrats and elected officials who have bankrupted this nation and only seek more revenue for the redistribution effort. Why on Earth would any liberal, with all of that supposed intellect, place their lives in the trough and trust them to a pig named Washington?

How can a Taxpayer enjoy 'Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness' when their means to do so is forceably taken from them by an evermore needy government? I've got life, I work my butt off for liberty, only to find I'm not working for myself but 20% of my work is used to pay for Constitutionally mandated government services that 49% of the people don't pay for but get to use and another 25% of my work goes to give someone else liberty and the freedom to pusue happiness - effectively making me a slave to people that want even more of my labors. Get government off of Taxpayers backs and maybe we could get the economy humming again so the people that aren't earning or paying their way could fine a job to do so.

I agree with you Harold. So you pay the money and we'll all get health care. But don't steal my money for your sick twisted idea of utopia. I have my own sick twisted idea of utopia to spend my money on. But I bet you think you have the right to usurp my idea of utopia for yours, don't you? I bet you think your opinions are better than mine don't you? I bet you don't have a problem spending my money on your idea, huh? Heck, everybody thinks that way. Tyranny happens when people like you force your ideas on people like me. That's what has caused most of the wars in history. Slavery was outlawed for a reason. It's evil. Don't reinstate it under the name "taxation".

Oh, you might try reading one of my earlier posts about government being the problem - not the solution. It never will be either.

I can assure you that there are people out there who are paying more taxes than you are. And you are deriving the benefit of their taxes. By your own logic, you are a parasite on them. How does that feel?

u know what u never hear in the news? My sisters boyfriend is from Germany and the health care system there is government/i.e. single payer or private. YOU CAN CHOOSE! if u don't like government run health care u can go private! Why do we never hear about this in the media?! I asked him what he thinks about health care here in the US and he says its a rip off!

Yep that system is working out real well...that means if you make $40K a year, you are paying $7,600 in taxes to cover just your health insurance...and then you need to go buy more!! Please!! Entitlement programs lead to lazy people.

LMAO.. I just love this moronic statement. How the hell is universal healthcare an "entitlement" program if the citizens are PAYING FOR IT THROUGH THE PAYMENT OF TAXES ??? Obviously something is not FREE if you have to pay for it Einstein. And...you're full of s h i t because France ranks #1... yes... #1 out of all countries for health care.

And health care for an entire citizenry DOES NOT create laziness... it creates a PRODUCTIVE society with little sickness and higher satisfaction and happiness.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

This is a TRUE example of an ignorant Rethuglican talking out their ASS with nary a fact to back up their inaccurate Faux News generated bull s h i t.

By the way... the US ranks 37th in health care !!! And you have the BALLS to criticize anyone elses health care system ???

Oh... here are some more FACTS... we know how Rethuglicants hate FACTS.

http://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/us-ranks-last-among-seven-countries-healthcare-performance

As far as quality of life... the first US city mentioned ranks 31st which is pretty piss poor IMO.

http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-report-2010

Funny how all those "socialist" countries have BETTER HEALTHCARE and a BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE. Hmmmmm... think maybe there's a correlation there somewhere ???

never thought I'd hear the day that being anti social was preferable, and like Smc31569 so clearly pointed out,............

it is not an entitlement if you pay the taxes to support it idiots !!!!!

Get your fingers out of your ears and stop shaking your head screeching NO! NO! NO!

you (repugs) all remind me of blue parrots, and if you don't wise up, you will all soon to be handed out as republican feather dusters at the next corporate board meeting!!!!

No, it' not just those class of people, it's also us Democrats who are tired of footing the bill for those that want something for free. Those of us who struggle every day to put food on our table and take care of our kids. If this healthcare remains law as it's set up, my insurance coverage, my doctors fees, will change. I do not stand to benefit at all from this, I'll lose. Healthcare is already available for anyone who wants to work for it, earn it. And as far as I know, there is already a program set up to provide care for our children, whether they have insurance or not. For them, I'd be happy to pay a bit more, but not for a working age adult who has not made his way through society. I started working at 16 and by 18, was providing myself with insurance through my employer. It is there. It is available. You just have to want it and be willing to pay the premiums not covered by the employer.

Southern Snipe: I know what snipe hunting is..and your argument is like it. Number one, the public option was not to be free, just a less expensive option . But , currently your supporting a low level free service called the emergency room. And the insurance companies are reading the new bill without a public option, and are adapting. By raising rates and blaming the bill, and we will be required to use them. The senate made a bill in favor of the companies , not the working public. Obama should have vetoed it.

Southern Snipe, you certainly named yourself well.

It must be absolutely fascinating to be omniscient and a mind-reader to boot.

Health care coverage is NOT available to everybody, and you lead a darned protected life if you really believe that. I know people who juggle several part time jobs just to keep food on the table, and believe me, in an economy that was raped and pillaged by Big Banking, they're bloody thankful to have _any— jobs. My oldest has two part-time jobs and does freelance work on the side. And you may not know this, but part-time jobs DO NOT offer benefits. Not even health insurance.

And what about those who aren't working? Oh wait- you 'know' that they just don't want to work, right? I've got new for you- my son-in-law's job went to India, and he has been killing himself looking for work. He's got no health coverage now. And their saving are gone.

I think your empathy is about as good as your mind-reading abilities, frankly.

So Southern, who do you think is paying for your insurance. Don't try to tell me you are. The people who pay your wages are. This includes everyone in the United States who does not have health insurance that uses or buys whatever service you provide. Do you or your employer offer them a lower price if they do not want to pay the amount included in the price or your product or service that pays for your insurance cost?

Southern Snipe, We Americans need to start thinking like a community.

Enough with "I've got mine and that's all that matters" None of us has as much control over our circumstances as we want to think we do. As the saying goes, "We plan and God laughs" We can't, and maybe aren't meant to, know what life holds, so we have to humble and think of others.

Watch --just watch--how fast your life changes when you or your spouse or child gets a cancer diagnosis or is seriously disabled in a car accident! The insurance you think is so good will drop you in a millisecond. Believe me. I know (because I have cancer) and my six-year-old niece (the car accident survivor) knows.

Respectfully, do you think you are so special that nothing like that will ever happen to you? Don't be so smug. Learn from others. I worked hard and earned well six into figures until cancer put me on permanent disability. And no work meant no health insurance. It happens every day.

I hope you never have to learn all this from experience.

Jim,

Did you just cut your hand deeply and can't stop the bleeding? Then go to any E.R in America and they will fix you up, even if you can't pay.

So now the question is, who just paid for your visit, taxpayers, that's who.

So we don't need obama care, we need reform, not entitlements to illegals and non payers, etc.

Robert

I know you think you are pretty clever, but the point of health care reform is that we (the tax payers) do not want to pay for Jim if he cuts his hand and is able to afford his care. If Jim did not want to purchase insurance, should the taxpayers have to pay for it.

I went for years without health insurance and am a diabetic, I paid my own way and never asked for a handout like the rest of you lazy left wingers that want the government to hand you whatever it is you need.

Tony, that is commendable. So when your blood no longer flows through you arms or legs and they have to be amputated, what will you do then? Are you going to be able to afford the care you will need. How about if the diabetes causes you to go blind? Have you collected enough money from the people of the United States or your employers to cover your living costs? If HCR is repealed, I certainly hope so, or do you plan to sponge off of the individuals that pay for their health care?

You poor misguided ignorant fool. Sarah and all those repubs do care about people having health insurance, but not at the expense of bankrupting our great nation.

REPEAL TAXPAYER-PROVIDED HEALTHCARE FOR THE POLITICIANS!!!!!!!

That would give " The Devil . . Orange Man" Boehner and Bi@tch McConnell pause.

Jake: Bush bankrupted this country with his wet-dream Iraq War . . .and the subsequent expense of rebuilding "their country"!! . . . You Misguided Fool!!

Jake, what is really bankrupting our country is military spending.

We have to be honest with ourselves about how we have chosen to spend on wealth.

Social spending is a fraction of what weapons cost. (And, btw, our current military spending does not include taking care of our veterans as we should)

I complain about healthcare reform not because I don't want to see everyone insured, but because of the way that Congress and the Administration chose to take care of it. They chose to pay for healthcare reform through fuzzy math and delay tactics This system they have created will never insure everyone. Read the law. Even those it does cover, it does not prevent you from having to declare bankruptcy because of healthcare costs. There are no limits on deductibles, co pays, out of pocket maximums.

The law is extremely flawed. It needs to be repealed and replaced. Replaced with what? I personally believe the only way to provide health insurance for all is through a single payer system. However, that system has its drawbacks. The rich will have immediate access to care and the poor will have to wait for care and often have care rationed. This is the issue that keeps this from happening.

Good life

HRC was one step forward. Repealing the law will do no good. All you have to do is convince the people that did not participate in its passage to add the provisions you would like to see.

I don't believe in govt mandated or subsidized healthcare. My employer does not offer insurance. I make just shy of $18,000 a year and I pay for my own health insurance. I made sacrifices where I needed to to afford it. It absolutely blows my mind that people expect me to add more of the money I barely make to pay for their subsidized care. And, oh I do pay, part of not having children means that I don't get all those lovely tax breaks at the end of the year. I don't own my own home, or make enough to qualify for head of household. When you want to swoop down and pay for my healthcare and taxes let me know. Until then I'll keep working my little full time job to put myself through school and pay the $80/ month to Aetna, with a $10,000 deductible and be happy providing for myself without your help.

amen jim amen.

Is your employer a doctor? If not then he can't legally practice medicine and provide you with health care.

He might divert part of your compensation to purchase insurance, but that's a very different thing from health care.

Most people with a decent income come out better by self-insuring rather than betting against the house with an insurance company. I have for 62 years. I've saved over $120,000 in insurance premiums, and the two times I've actually needed medical treatment which I couldn't legally obtain without going to the medical monopoly, I paid the bill out of part of the money that $120,000 has earned me over the years.

Natasha... are you just mentally inept or what ? Under this plan YOUR health care would be subsidized. Where on earth did you ever get the idea that any of your taxes ( and I know for a fact that if you're only making $18 K a year you're getting every dime back so you're paying jack @!$%# into the system but maybe a few measly bucks ) would be paying for anyone else.

Please remove your head from that bottomless pit called URANUS.

And the answer is: Nobody cares. The reason for this is simple. The doctors have done the secret grips and grins with the insurance companies and are accepting what the insurance companies pay for a particular service. The doctors of course wnat that co=pay, but if they don't get it they don't really care. There still getting that insurance money. If someone does pay it is just more money for them, and if they don't it is a right-off. The goal is to see as many patients as you can on a given day period. They also conduct uneccessary tests to drive up their profits. Drugs are passed out upon request. It's a great system for everyone. What a joke. I'm sure MR. Bohener will solve everything in January.

RangerDon, do you know why they do so many tests? It's because they are afraid of getting sued for malpractice which happens all too often because people want easy money. If the amount a person could receive for a successful malpractice lawsuit was limited to a certain amount, health care costs would go down.

Jim -

I am very sorry you didn't live someplace like Canada, or the UK. Your bill would probably be well under a grand, if that.

I'm sorry too Jim. a great number of bankruptcies in this country are the result of medical bills. The obvious solution to health care reform was a single payer system, or at least a public option, but those were stripped out of the plan in order to prevent a Republican fillibuster that would have jeapordized any chance of even a small bit of health care reform. Obama's plan has not kicked in yet and won't for several years unless the Republicans trash it completely. In that case it never will. Since they don't have a veto proof majority in the House, they are holding the country hostage by threatening to refuse to finance the plan, or parts of it. It is far from perfect, but why not at least give it a chance before deciding to trash it without even presenting an alternative?

Jim, if it was up to the republicans, they would have preferred to see you die

Harsh, but the facts

Will you be paying the Eighty Five Thousand Dollars?

If so, good luck on your future life of serfdom -

...unless of course you're rich where in something like this would simply be an irritant...way to go mr boyscout, to what/who can you attribute such accumulated prosperity?

If you can't pay, well, shame on you for getting sick - this is why the republicans would prefer you DEAD - they will have to PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE!!!

Aren't these the "all life is precious" people? Oh ya, right up until the bill comes...

24/7/365 fOX type news has turned y'alls brains to mush...and your hearts to stone...still excited to meet your maker?

Do you feel that that your life was worth $85,000? Do you think the hospital, nurses, doctors, and support staff that cared for you deserves to be paid?

Do you pay for your own groceries? You need those to live too. While I feel for you, the hospital has indiginant programs that will severly write off large portions of that bill for you. People who refuse to accept personal responsibility for their own care have only themselves to blame.

What a callous, coldhearted c---.

Natasha-1792818

you logic is about as comforting as a 5 lb, ice cold suppository. did your mama charge you a dollar to suckle? thank god when she had health insurance when she dropped you on your head, however, she should have retained a lawyer for the outcome.

It hasn't been instituted yet, and not fully until 2016. Or never thanks to the incoming Repubs.

JF, I don't think that is correct some of it is already in place.

Don'r worry Jim, Mr. Bohner will pay. No Tri, Unfortunately Mr. Grassley watered down the bill. They created a fine so low that it is cheaper for insurance companies to just pay the fine and not provide coverage to those with preexisting conditions. As a retired soldier I have seen socialized medicine and it works. The reason we will never have it is about money. You can't fix the problem by treating symptoms of the problem. The only way will ever get serious about health care is if a pandemic hits and all those uninsured start threatening the health of the insured. Until then it's every man for himself.

Ranger Don, my roommate works for Army Recruiting, and she says that Tri Care WORKS and she wishes that we could just expand it. It can't be done because of entrenched systems in the civilian market that financially benefit a few, but isn't it nice to dream of?

It hasnt even started yet!! See--that's the problem--all of this whining over the one damn thing we ought to be agreeing on--the need for Americans NOT to go broke because of an illness--and it comes down to your hatred of democrats. At least Mitch McConnell's attitude I can understand--Of COURSE he thinks we've got terrific health care in this country because HE does in the Senate--

I'm a disabled veteran and receive my healthcare from the VA. It's fine if you have minor problems but pray to God you don't have anything serious. I had to wait 4 weeks to get a MRI and then they had to outsource it. You rarely if ever see a doctor just a nurse. This is what we would get with a single payor system. I know a number of people on TriCare and they feel the same way.

TriCare does work for the military - both retired and active. But remember the recruiters that promised "free" health care for life if we would but serve our country? I worked three years in Washington preparing budgets for submission to the Congress. The amount computed for military pay raises was ALWAYS offset by the discounted value of life-time health care - and the savings from PX/BX and commissary. What the retired serviceman gets today is deferred income. So your roommate works for Army Recruiting - she and all your other friends can jump on "the gravy train of lifetime health care" simply by joining one of the uniformed services. And, oh yes, TriCare is also under attack by the Congress. But then so too are all of the government health care programs in Western Europe. Did anyone pay attention to the French Minister when he stated that the costs of their social programs was were unsustainable? They have the same high increases in health care costs as we do in the United States. Higher costs are driven by technological change - new medication simply costs more than leaches.

The bottom line is that there are too many who do not pay any income taxes and the burden is becoming too heavy for those who do pay taxes.

Sorry to hear about your experience in VA. That's a VA problem, we need to address that. Americans are sometimes too nice, shout at them, throw a cup or two at them. See how that goes.

But, never be afraid to change because of that. MANY other countries already have universal healthcare. MANY countries in the developed world do that. Just look around, it is the right way to go.

Do you know that from 1980 to 2009, U.S. population increased from 231 millions to 307 millions. But the new graduates from all med schools kept at about the same level of 16,000? (see aamc.org) That means there will never be enough doctors for all patients, and that also means that all doctors (even bad ones) are guarantee to have big pay checks for a long time. Do them want public to control the price? Of course not, they want the market force to work in their favor.

Healthcare is not a free-market industry, and it's now controlled by several powerful special interest groups (doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies). Of course they don't want big government to interfere. An analogy of that is, a group of thugs beating up a young man on the street, a policeman sees it and wants to interfere, and they say to him "Big government, stay out of our affairs".

Personal suffering aside, the huge health insurance premium (14,000 dollars per year, as one reader put it) significantly reduces the competitiveness of the U.S. industry, especially manufacture and export industry. And you should know the consequence of that.

The "controlling special interest groups" do not include doctors. I know several doctors who said that they wouldn't go into medicine now, esp. primary care. That's why there will be a shortage of doctors--who wants to go through all that training to work 60 hours weeks plus weekends on call, and have their income continually cut by the govt (Medicare, a huge "single payor" system). Those who want to make "big" money are going into business schools. The ones who want to really be doctors do it because it's a calling, like the ministry or priesthood. . . My son lives in Barcelona, and says the head of OB/GYN at the largest hospital there makes 35,000 a year. Would you have all that responsibility and schooling for that? Also, do you see the big advances in medicine coming from those European countries? Nope. Without a profit potential, things don't get improved, from mousetraps, to your car, to lifesaving medical advances (so more of us can live long enough to take advantage of Medicare). Look at the newest/bigges buildings in your city--it's hospitals and insurance companies, not doctor's offices. Doctors are more and more just employees, not calling their own shots anymore.

Tri-care works ?? That's a joke. The military health care system almost killed BOTH of my children. Most of the facilities are run down, with out of date equipment and I swear to god the doctors and nurses that staff military health facilities are the ones that no decent facility would take. They must be all the St. Georges Medical School rejects.

Ever wait in the ER for NINE (9) hours with a 3 wk old infant that has a temp of 104 degrees because of spinal meningitis ? Or what about a 1 yr old who gets sent home from the clinic by a doctor that can't even recognize a potentially LETHAL bite from a poisonous spider and tells you to go home an "put ice on it" ?

After those two incidents I NEVER, EVER used a military medical facility again and used civilian providers only. The level of incompetence is shocking !

I agree with your last statement. Abortion can be cost effective and should be covered by any national healthcare plan.

Ok you have the answers to the 55 million uninsured question - get an education, get a job, provide for yourself. This is not about jobs, education, its about life, health, and preventive care. Its about the million diseases one can have at any time in their lives - as a child, as a teenager, as a young adult, middle-aged, or elderly. What if you get laid off your job or you have been fired, or what if you have an accident, prior to getting healthcare coverage. So many varibles other than what you are proposing.

Sorry Southern Snipe, but you've got your facts wrong. My sister and brother-in-law are living proof of that. My brother-in-law has a very good job as a regional manager for a building company. He makes good money. And my sister, while not exactly in the professional working class, works hard grooming dogs for a local vet's office while she also takes care of their two children. But because my brother-in-law's small business employer can't afford to provide insurance and because he doesn't make the megabucks required to buy a family health plan on his own, they go without. Recently, we had a big scare when my sister found a lump in her breast. Fortunately, it turned out to be a watery cyst. But she and my brother-in-law are left with the very sizeable (think cost of a brand new sedan) bill to pay off. They dearly needed the health insurance option that will be provided in 2014 now in 2010. But the insurers, as usual, won that argument. So, no, hard work does not equal health insurance in this country.

Southern

It is obvious that you cannot not understand. The problem is there are too many people in the United States just like you. You should try to understand before weighing in with comments.

I'm a working age adult. I got an education, a job, provide for myself, and have no kids. But I don't have health insurance provided by my employer, because I'm self employed. I own a small business, and work 60-80 hours a week. I get by, but not by much. I can't afford health insurance. And no, I don't have a big screen tv, or an elaborate apartment, or a fancy car. I haven't taken a vacation in 9 years, and I don't go out on the town.

I'm 42 and I haven't had a physical in 10 years. If I get sick and can't work, my income drops to zero. And if I did dare go to the hospital to get checked out I'd be afraid that anything they found would be a 'pre-existing condition' if I ever did manage to purchase insurance.

This law will allow me to afford insurance for the first time in years. I have no problem with paying for my own insurance, but I have to be able to afford it, and I have to count on the fact that they will actually provide the basic services I need and not cancel me when it comes time to use it.

So it's not just the lazy and uneducated who don't have insurance. It's also people who work their butts off and just barely get by. And that group is growing.

For many, it is a matter of choice. Priority is not set sufficiently high enough to "afford" health insurance. After all, emergency care will be taken care of - my "brother" will only be too happy to pay both his and my responsibility. Know anyone who thinks that way?

Wal-Mart is one of the largest employers in the U.S. Do you understand now why a lot of people could be working yet not have insurance?

Southern Snipe how could someone work long enough to get unemployment?

An employer has to let lay someone off with no fault of their own before they could collect unemployment. Its completely out of the employees control.

I have 2 structural welding certifications and a welding diploma. I also have bipolar disorder and chorns/ uncertive colitis. Since I was laid off I have not been able to afford the 700-1000 a month for medicines I need just to make it through the day. Its hard to get work when you must use the bathroom every hour. You do not get insurance at most employment until 3 months. But don't worry snipe if I don't win the lottery here soon I will be dead. So don't worry about giving me any freebees. Not everyone is just "lazy".

Southern Snipe:

You need to get out there and discover what's going on. You're statement is scary. The unemployed lose their healh insurance and (try to) purchase COBRA at an exhorbitant rate. Many cannot afford it.

There are many out there on the fringe who work for large companies at low wages and no insurance. You need to wake up to this.

bmilleroh, actually walmart provides an insurance plan for its employees. They have to pay a share of the premium, as you do at any job. (It may not be the best coverage but it is insurance. They can choose from numerous plans.

Angie, simply put Wal-Mart health insurance sucks. If you do not believe me, ask anyone that works there.

Angie, I might add, at least you get low prices. You probably eat at McDonald's when you go out for dinner as well.

Why is it the naysayers can't see past their own noses. I've got mine, why don't you have yours. You know life happens, maybe it hasn't happened to you yet but during life things happen that you don't plan for. Like being laid off, having a child not planned for, accidents, insurance you just can't afford, the list goes on and on of what could happen in ones life. There are millions out of work right now who never dreamed they would not have a job and not be covered by some kind of insurance. This is due through no fault of their own, jobs left the country, factories closed, businesses closed down, on and on. Believe it or not, most people want to work. The naysayers make it seem like all these people are out of work because they don't want to work or like to sit on their butts as one blogger said. Granted there are probably thousand of those too but for the most part people want to work and provide for their families. The Health-care bill was only a start and it has to be tweaked, of course. A start is better than nothing at all. Some measures in the bill have already taken place. It is due to kick in fully by 2014 on most measures. One is you won't be able to be dropped by your insurance company if you becomes sick and no limits, like once you hit a million dollars, the insurance company won't pay anymore. They won't be able to do to drop you. There are some good Health-care measures in this bill but more needs to be done. This is only the beginning, unless the Republicans, destroy it completely, which would be an horrific catastrophe for this Country, it's people and business. After all what is more important than the people. If there are no people to service, buy, sell, do for, nothing to Govern, nothing left but a sorry bunch of Republican Demagogues, then, we might as well be another lost country in Africa.

actually, I dont eat at McD's at all, but my mom works at walmart and the insurance offered is not that much different than what I am paying $1709 a month for on the individual market.

I am not a "walmart fan", they do not pay enough, and generally treat their employees poorly, but how is that any different than most employers in this bad economic market. Walmart could do a much better job, yet any insurance is better than NONE.

Well Angie, if you eat out at all, most likely the person serving you does not receive health benefits from their employer. I only used McDonalds as an example. Do you realize most of the best government health plans cost 500 to 700 dollar per month less than what you are paying? Seems to me you could be saving a lot of money if you joined forces with like minded individuals that did not want to be taken advantage of by the insurance companies.

I hope your mother likes her job. My wife used to work for Wal-Mart and I know
the insurance is worthless. I do not understand why they cannot raise the price
of some of the items a couple of pennies and provide their employees with
decent health care.

Southern Snipe,

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/managing-your-healthcare/healthcare/articles/2010/09/07/large-companies-more-likely-to-offer-dental-insurance.html

The article at the link above was published Sept. 7, 2010.

They found that 56 percent of U.S. companies offered health insurance, 35 percent offered dental insurance, and 63 percent of those that offered health insurance also offered dental insurance.

So I'm guessing you are older and have one of those higher-level jobs where health insurance is a given.

More companies than ever are parsing out what used to be full time jobs into part time jobs so they don't have to offer health insurance. As FamilyWoman pointed out above, millions of Americans are working multiple part time jobs and NO these do not offer any benefits (not even paid days off) at all.

Many companies will not hire a person with a health condition that would raise their premiums. Others will find ways to keep that type of employee off the insurance rolls. I've seen that happen for myself to someone.

At Walmart and Sam's Club, for instance, an employee has to work full time for an entire year to be eligible for health insurance. Oh, and there are a lot of companies that pay such low starting wages, that they hand out instructions on how to sign up for food stamps and Medicaid in their new hire packets. I've seen this in multiple situations for myself (other people having been hired by some of these companies and showing me the paperwork). To emphasize the point, these WORKING people are paid such low wages that they still qualify for food stamps and Medicaid (if they have children in the latter case). That's insanity. No one who is working should be denied health insurance and that's what the HCR was supposed to fix, among other things.

As for temp services, their insurance plans are priced out of sight, given what they pay their temps. Many companies are using temps, who are paid about 60% of what a permanent hire would be paid. In 2003, I was told by my temp agency that the client company would only pay $12.20/hour. I was originally told I was the "door opener" - that if I did well enough, others would get jobs there, too. It was presented as temp-to-perm, but the VP introduced me to everyone as 'the temp until we hire a permanent assistant'. I was the assistant to the company VP and his 19-member department. The permanent person I replaced had worked for HR before that position and in the desk was the company pay sheet for every grade. The mid-point pay for the job I was doing at that grade level was $44,700/year - $21.49/hour WITH BENEFITS. I found out the other temps from the competitor agency (the existing agency, not mine) were being paid $16/hour. When I asked my manager about that, the manager told me "door opener" meant that my hourly rate (paraphrasing here) would undercut the competition so the agency that placed me would get the exclusive. I left. Abbott has a contract with Manpower and when Manpower can't fill a position, it subcontracts to other agencies. A temp has to work 2-3 years before even being considered being hired. And then that new hire has to wait for the eligibility time to pass before signing up for insurance. Abbott, the pharm.

I was talking to a bus driver today. In this town, that company is a large employer and the starting pay isn't bad as jobs around here go. But most of the drivers are not considered full time employees (even the ones working 39.9 hours/week). If they aren't considered full time, they don't get insurance. He was hit on his motorcycle about the middle of October from behind. The ambulance ride and the 5 hours in the ER cost $10,000. Because the accident wasn't his fault, the insurance company of the person who hit him will have to pay. He didn't have health insurance at the time for him and his family - his wife had lost her job that provided that coverage. That's about to change, though, and they will have insurance once again. He said he looked into individual family policies. The premiums would have been $1,100 a month. The bus company doesn't pay THAT well.

In 1999, I researched and found a better health insurance plan for my employer, who had three offices. One employee in one of those offices, a divorced single mother, was called by someone in management level when the first plan was implemented and basically told she'd better not sign up or she'd lose her job. I didn't know this when the sign-ups went out for the new plan when this story came to my attention. I was originally told she CHOSE to opt out of the first plan. And while she was ELIGIBLE for both plans, she opted out of the second, too, because she didn't want to lose her job. Her ex-husband had the kids insured on his employer's plan, but the employer didn't know about the divorce.

In our town, the Mickey D's are all in one franchise. The "insurance" plan offered (and they have to work there quite a while to qualify) has a yearly benefit cap of $5,000. You read that right. That won't even cover a broken bone. And they charge an awful lot to the employee for that piddly coverage.

I don't know where you get your information from, but what you describe and posit is absolutely not what's really going on in the work force right now. Don't criticize and berate those who don't have insurance or who advocate for health care reform. Obviously from what you posted, you have not walked in their shoes. And believe me, you don't want to.

Southern Snipe. I'm happy for you that your situation is so much better than 59 million Americans without health insurance. I'm not a lazy bum trying to get a free ride, from you or anyone else. I am 62, and have been working continuosly since I was 16 (13 if you count delivering newspapers). I was laid off several months ago. Good luck finding a job at any age right now, and it isn't likely to ever happen for a 62 year old. We are supposed to work until we are 70 now, but nobody wants us after about 55. When I was laid off, my health insurance ended. I qualify for COBRA and so far have been able to afford it, but not out of unemployment benefits. I'm more fortunate than many in this country because so far I have been able to afford the premiums. So, I have health insurance now, but I'm afraid to use it in case any trip to the doctor ends up being called a pre-existing condition when COBRA runs out. I won't qualify for Medicare for three more years, which means I will have a gap in coverage for about two years when I am most likely to need it. Since you seem to have all the answers how about coming up with one for me, because I sure haven't been able to.

I don't think the teapublicons have the ability, or the interest frankly, to distinguish between an average down on their luck family, when compared to a crack momma with 7 babies.

It's black or white, (no pun intended) - either you're a worthless obama votin' freeloader, or you're one of their proud American patriot "hard workers".

Maybe it's easier for them that way - they never need to come up with answers for what happens between the two extremes...you know, in reality, where our actual life happens.

jt in sd- You should check into private policies, they are probably cheaper than Cobra. As well as long as you have a private plan within 60 days after Cobra you will not have a pre-existing condition.

Natasha: don't know where you got your figures from but to insure my family of 3 with $5,000 per person deductible and no preventative the best I could find was $3,600 per month which is exactly what I take home per month. But then I am over 50, my husband is 62 and my daughter has a pre-existing.

i just hope, as i lay dieing in the street outside of the hospital, that some repugnant doesn't comfort me by telling me how Lucky i am that i don't have socialized health care like euorpe. it just might revive me long enough to rap my hand around their throat. the other free hand will be to make sure they don't take my wallet.

Penn... that was PRICELESS !!!

Hey.. you might enjoy this ... a little Rethuglicant humor :

http://addictinginfo.org/news.php?post=32

Smc31569'

Ahhhh!!! why did you do that to me? It's depressing!!!! ......and then i read 28

28) You believe Bill Clinton was an immoral cad, but Newt Gingrich and Henry Hyde were faithful husbands (and Larry Craig just has a wide stance).

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! wipe tears from my eyes and change my underwear and pants from pissing myself laughing.........a vote up!!!

Study the European systems. France no longer has a single payer system. Germany never did. France did have but has deleted so many procedures from coverage....they now recommend that citizens buy private insurance to cover the care that has been dropped by the government as unaffordable. Single payer systems did not deter the escalation in health care costs.

Funny, no one here has mentioned the word CANADA--just sayin...

health care coops would be better than single payer. they are to health care financing what credit unions are to banking. coops would be member owned and would negotiate with doctors, hospitals, etc. to create a choice of plans. they would be non-profit and regional. this was a great idea that was being considered by the senate finance committee when that a$$hole Palin came out with her Death Panels lunacy, which managed to turn the HC debate into a circus.

We have a single payer system. You are the single payer. Please pay cash at the door.

Here.. you all might find this interesting. It ranks countries by quality of life, healthcare etc.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/15/interactive-infographic-of-the-worlds-best-countries.html

Japan ranks #1, France ranks #7 and the US ranks #28.

I don't know about you but that's a pretty PATHETIC position if you ask me. EVERY European nation ranks higher than the US. If "socialized health care" means a better quality of life, I'll take it in a heartbeat. The Nordic countries are always in the top 5.

What is your choice? If you are referring to having health insurance, do the rest of us have the right to refuse you service at the emergency room is you do not have insurance?

No way. Anyone presenting at the emergency room MUST be provided care. If the patient cannot pay, the hospital "eats" the costs - that is, recovers it from other patients - thereby causing health care insurance costs to rise. Some are free-loaders through choice - some are truly unable to pay.

Sorry Ken, can't have it both ways. If you are too dumb to buy health insurance or support universal health care, you need to die when the opportunity arises. That is called natural selection.

We don't have that right ir12, because government has infringed it. That law should be changed.

Since when is it someone else's responsibility to help you get a "basic need?" How about taking responsibility for yourself? You are correct though, that it is not Obama's fault you don't have health insurance. It is your own fault. I don't want the government to "help" me get insurance. I'll work and provide for myself thank you very much.

Here's hoping you never become a burden to the rest of us John...

Think for a minute the brutal mental anguish and self loathing - sure would be hard to take knowing you've just become one of those you so proudly despise.

If it happens, would you be opposed to us just taking you out back and putting you down like a lame thoroughbred?

See you in church on Sunday y'all!

John-1742244

You are the epitome of narcissism. I congratulate on your self absorption. I truly feel for our society when we have people that think only of themselves. Not everyone in need is a freeloader out to get your precious booty.

Yes, there will be abusers of any program but the small percent of abusers is not a reason to not help those who, through no fault of their own need help.

Cathy, oh Cathy,

I feel your pain and understand your shock about being out in the cold after a lifetime of doing "all the right things". It's not what any American ever expects and it feels like betrayal when it does.

I wish your husband and you well. Stay strong.

Cathy, Your's is an example of paying into the system for over thirty years and not being able to receive care from that system.

God bless you and your husband.

I can bet you that he was fired because his company was afraid that the insurance company would raise their health premiums because of his cancer. They wanted to get him off their payroll and off their insurance as soon as they could.

Cathy: My family and I will keep you and your family in our prayers. Truly sucks when you do everything right and it goes all wrong.

Obama did not need Republican support.He had control of both senate and the house.He sould have worked on a few more Democrats instead of blaming Republicans for poltical gains.

John, what are you talking about? Do you really believe there was not one Republican who thought health care reform was a good idea? Everything would have been fixed if Massachusetts had any sense.

The Republicans were so determined not to allow the healthcare bill to pass at the end of last year that they wanted to filibuster a bill to provide funds for the armed forces. They threatened the filibuster on a Thursday & the war funds were running out Friday at midnight. Google Republican filibuster and look at the hits you get. Then tell me how much control the Dems have had.

The Repubs have only had one agenda (and still do) ever since the day Obama got elected:

Get him OUT.

Nothing else has mattered to them, least of all furthering the best interests of the people.

The republicans and corporate America are railroading Obama just like they did Carter. Exact same game book. Just when we start getting a government back that is for we the people, Corporate money, power and Brain washing rules the day. Ironictonic is right, The American voters are Idiots. Welcome to slavery 2011 and more years of Bush style stagnation!

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

What insurance company do you work for?

yea doug, I guess I could say that Bush planned 9/11, but that would be CRAZY..... just like the nonsense you are spewing. Obama is not anti american and it is ridiculous to say that.

The parties, Dem/Rep. are not that far apart but with all of the rhetoric you would think we live on different planets.
Health care reform... a plan very similar to the one passed, actually started out as a Republican idea. It is basically the Mass. plan passed and supported by Rep. Gov. Mitt Romney.

No amount of health care will ever be able to fix stupid people.

Did you mean reign in prices? Or reign in PROFITS?

How much did our system profit off sick Americans last year?

Billions upon billions of dollars

How can we increase earnings for 2011?

Easy, collect more and more, pay out less less less - either more people have to get sick, or we make more profit off each customer/patient...

Sickened yet? it's just business.

The premiums were $400-500 a month. I don't consider that "free" insurance.

Yes, the misinformation machine was indeed on full tilt boogy last summer - we got what we got based on how stupid and easily divided we are...

bmilleroh... geez... my state wants me to pay $675/mo w/a $5000 deductible and NO Rx's. Sure the hell doesn't sound "free" to me ! Because of all of my pre-existing conditions which include numerous permanent physical injuries I am only able to work part time. $675 is HALF of what I make and then I still have rent, car pmt, car insurance, food, gas,utilities, phone/internet, credit cards I'm paying off from my PRE-ACCIDENT days when I was making damned good money that was more than sufficient to pay for everything. Even then I was denied insurance for being self-employed and having other Pre-existing conditions.

Guess if I get sick or have an accident I should just go curl up in a corner and die according to them ( GNOPers ).

Buy a smaller/cheaper house and take care of your personal responsibility for health care.

jerk

What he's actually saying is buy a shack with an outhouse. Some people are so f*cked up and they vote.

ken, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You probably have employer sponsored health care and have not had to deal with the individual insurance market. Mpmp is right.

**

I have been on all 3 sides, no insurance, bought my own insurance and employer supplied insurance. It is heck to deal with no matter which one you have and it is going to worse. Just wait until the true costs come out. I do not believe the single payer type will work either, there is to much of a difference between all the people and some will get treated right away and some will have to wait and that is not right. To the poster who said taxes aren't going up well I just found out that the part my husbands employer pays is going on the income side of his tax forms so that means we get to pay taxes on it right. As always just my opinion.

Sure, Ken, tell me what you'd do if you had a baby with birth defects and your insurance company won't insure it because of pre-existing conditions? You wouldn't be living in any house - it would be a cardboard box in the park.