This article is so true. I've learned to take those WebMD sites and the like with a serious grain of salt. When I do the symptom checker they typically tell me either to seek medical help immediately or that I have something impossible like some childhood develpmental disorder. If I followed that, I'd be in the ER every month and at the doctor's office every week! Fortunately I didn't do that even once; the first time I weighed it and I decided that I'd rather be sick and miserable at home than sick and miserable in a crowded ER. After a while, I got better. Now I just give everything time, thinking that if it's really bad it won't go away. Of course, I do know the symptoms of a heart attack or stroke and I know that those must be acted on immediately.
This is one of the root causes for my serious panic attacks (which landed me in the E.R. after I'd nearly gone hypothermic because I was hyperventilating, they had to bring me heated blankets, which was nice :D). Eventually, I recovered, and have been right as rain since, but I believe that information, mainly from the web, helped fuel the panic and caused me to misdiagnose myself many times.
I had issues with burning and tingling in my legs and feet for almost 2 years, went to a dozen doctors and a score of tests and they didn't know what was wrong with me. I did a ton of online research and none of it helped.
Finally my "simmering" case of shingles became acute and two months later I was much better. My doctor had said he had only ever heard one other possible case like mine.
MEDICINE IS EQUAL PARTS SCIENCE, ART, AND LUCK.
Perhaps when lab on a chip becomes cheaply available things will tip in favor of science.
Kiseba
Just because you had a problem using the sympton checker, no one else should use them? Drs. are not gods, they don't always get it right. The symptom checker is a tool, not a solution. Using a symptom checker might help some patients to give more precise information about their symptoms to their Dr. which might lead their Dr. to do the correct tests and make a diagnosis faster.
Finally some things us mere mortals can do to learn what we may be plagued by. Doctors are to busy to ask reluctant patients the CORRECT QUESTIONS and then prescribe billions of dollars of quack medications on the way to thousands of patient deaths DUE TO DOCTOR MISDIAGNOSES. NOW IT'S THE PATIENTS FAULT!!!!! BULL CRAP!!!!!!!!
For people with undiagnosed symptoms which doctors have been unable to diagnose or treat successfully, thorough Internet research by the patient or their family may be the KEY to discovering that a RARE disease is responsible.
Some rare diseases have a confusing array of seemingly-random symptoms that may be like the blind men touching and describing different parts of an elephant.
Doctors are NOT knowledgeable about some rare orphan diseases and may have never seen or heard of a patient with one. In these cases, diligent Internet research can uncover information that finally puts all the confusing pieces together.
I have a ZEBRA disease for which the internet (including scholarly articles and medical journal research) has proved INVALUABLE. And yes, I DO know a LOT more about the disease than most doctors.
Very very true. When I was 16 I started having crippling abdominal pain. Not just "ow that hurts" but more like "Excuse me while I drop to the floor screaming." So I was taken to the ER. The doctors said, "Oh you're sixteen...you must be pregnant and hiding it from your mom." I told them it wasn't possible, they called me a liar, and I would get a pregnancy test that was always negative. Eventually they started treating me like someone who was just looking for a fix of pain meds.
So I started looking online and discovered a condition that perfectly matched every single one of my symptoms. The next time it happened I told my GYN, "I really think I have endometriosis." I was armed with a ream of printouts from the internet describing the disease, but I was told I was "way too young" and dismissed.
My mother was furious by this point and took me to a second GYN who went in with a laproscope and found my intestines and pretty much everything else in my abdominal cavity was completely covered in endometrial adhesions. They were removed by laser and it was very literally like getting my life back to have that pain be relieved.
If I hadn't gone searching on the Internet and had just gone with the emergency room doctors I probably would have had a world record for negative pregnancy tests and still no resolution. That said, self diagnosis isn't always the right answer. I had a friend who was once thoroughly convinced that she had a tape worm after reading about them online - turns out she just had an enviable metabolism. But in some cases when you know deep down that the answers the doctors are giving you aren't satisfactory, you need to advocate for yourself and go on your own hunt for information.
chibidraco I truly believe that drs are totally ignorant when it comes to fertility related diseases in young women. I have had drs tell me that it is not possible that I am infertile becuase I am 26! Yea, tell that to the other thousands of couples out there going through this. Just because it is rare does not mean it does not exist! I am happy that you have gotten treatment for your endo, that is truly a horrible condition!
I was diagnosed with DCIS, a form of breast cancer, several years ago. I used the internet to understand my diagnosis, and I used that knowledge to work with my doctors on the best course of treatment. Unfortunately, cancer returned about 5 years later, and I again used the internet to understand what was going on. I made the doctors spell out everything, then I could look it up when I had time. It helped me come up with the questions I needed to understand everything. Cancer free now, and I thank my doctors for that, but any understanding of the disease I had, I got from the internet.
Cancer sucks. Hang in there and within a decade it will be a "manageable" disease with nanotechnology processes for producing protein covered gold spheres to uniquely attach to cancer and "zapped".
I think a huge part of the demand for online help rather than going to a doctor is doctor visits usually include the following:
1) 5-10 minutes with the doctor, 90% of it is looking at his notepad or computer and not giving you the option of bringing up symptoms or things you're concerned about.
2) Doctors giving you a bad attitude when you bring out a list of symptoms, as if you're just making crap up.
3) If a doctor immediately offers to treat X condition with Y expensive drug, and you decline or ask if there is something else that could help, they give you an attitude.
I talked to a doctor once about depression, we discussed my symptoms and determined yes indeed I had depression. He immediately suggested a drug, I told him I would feel better trying counseling first than to immediately go on a pill. His response? "Come back when you've realized it doesn't work and you really want to take my advice seriously."
Conclusion? Counseling worked marvelously. My depression became manageable, and eventually gone. I told my doctor this on a follow up visit, and he just walked out of the room.
The point being people want Medical Advice, they want a doctor to take a few minutes and get to know them, ask deeper questions, give us the opportunity to bring up things without feeling rushed, and to not immediately jump to a pill to cure everything. I want a doctor, not a drug dealer. I want a doctor to respect my beliefs of trying non-chemical methods first if they're at all practical.
Doctors in this country could do well by stripping all drug ads from their offices, and allocate more time to patients especially during their yearly well-man/well-woman exams to ask questions, get to know the patient beyond a chart, and ask lifestyle questions that could indicate a problem even if it's not linked to any obvious issues.
Pepster, I've wondered about that phenomenon in doctors too. You go in with aches, they send you to a rheumatologist. You go in with fatigue, they send you to a cardiologist. You have a question about a skin tag? No they can't remove it, they want you to see a dermatologist.
But the minute you mention your mental well being, they're more than eager to give you something. I mentioned at my last doctor's appointment that I was experiencing a lot of stress (work, life, etc.) and she swore up and down that I needed Prozac.
I agree with above posters that the info about certain conditions is often very valuable. I have gotten very important info about medications-particularly side affects not told to me by doctors-and also about certain proceedures I was considering. Perhaps I'm the only one with hypochondriac tendencies! LOL
Doctors do NOT know everything - they are your "employee" such as an auto mechanic is. They have knowledge, true - but they need to know specifics, and way too often, they just want to be (as was mentioned) a drug dealer and get you out of the office. Years ago, I learned, question the doctors. If they won't properly answer you - find another one. Anytime a med is suggested, I ask the following: Are there any other ways to treat this? How long has it been on the market? What are known side effects? What happens if I DON'T treat it? Are there lifestyle choices I could make so this med would be unneccessary? When should I expect improvement in my condition by taking this? When should I come back in if it doesn't seem to be working? Is there a lab test that can confirm I actually HAVE this disease you want to treat? Yeah - some get annoyed. They get fired.
I agree about the employee thing. Doctors have gotten so arrogant and forget that they are hired by you to perform a service. They are not all knowing and regularly make mistakes. The only ones I trust are those that are able to say they don't know and will take the time to find out!
If you need all that one on one time with a doc, then I would highly recommend a concierge service. Physicians don't have gigantic patient panels, and therefore aren't as rushed to keep up with the demand. Most would love to spend the time to talk to the patient about everything, but in today's environment it's just not possible.
That doesn't take that much time to answer those questions - IF the doctor is willing and able. These are things ANY doctor should know before prescribing anything to anyone - and if they don't - fire 'em!
they tend to not trust physicians when they are told there is nothing wrong with them.
LOL
I have had 3 unrelated life-threatening conditions, one of which required emergency midnight surgery. In each case, I was told repeatedly that nothing was wrong with me.
I absolutely despise doctors. I wouldn't trust one to clean my toilet.
Wow. Nice blanket generalizations. Way to slur an entire profession dedicated to helping people. I guess doctors didn't perform the life saving midnight surgery?? Maybe it was prayer or a faith healer? Ooops ! Contradiction!! I am sorry you didn't get the diagnosis you wanted, but if you hate doctors, stay out of the mainstream medical arena. They're plenty of alternative shysters who want your money.
Yes the stupid doctors performed the surgery after I lived for months in agonizing pain while being told it was all in my head until my gall bladder literally burst and almost killed me. They performed the surgery because the AMA functions as an unelected branch of our government and prevents other practitioners access to labs and hospitals. Otherwise, I would never so much as pee on one if he was on fire.
If you are so naive that you believe doctors are a profession dedicated to helping people, God help you because that's the ONLY help you'll get.
As for "alternative shysters" how would you explain the allopaths all jumping on the bandwagon now? It wasn't that long ago that your favorite idiots were lecturing us that what we ate had no effect whatsoever on our health. They are arrogant idiots and have always been arrogant idiots.
I firmly believe that there are very good doctors out there who take their patients seriously, listen, and research before making a diagnosis. That being said, I think the vast majority of doctors are too arrogant and fail to listen or even to respect patients. I have been misdiagnosed to the point I ended up in the hospital for a week fighting off a life threatening infection that shifted my airway. I had gone to 8 different doctors over the course of three months, each of which was very confident his or her diagnosis was correct. None took the time to research my symptoms and several even told me some of my symptoms were in my head. I would write this off to a freak incident were it not for the fact that my son, my mother, and several close friends have all had similar experiences. I am an intelligent woman and with a hair of effort I have been able to research a number of illnesses/injuries that my children and I have had through the years. Going to the doctor with an idea of what could be wrong has allowed me to use doctors to my advantage and ask appropriate questions and challenge them when necessary, so that they are able to make a better diagnosis. I no longer look to them as the experts, but merely another tool to help me care for myself and my family. After all nobody is ever going to take your health as seriously as you are. In this day and age to rely solely on the advice of a doctor when so much information is at your fingertips would be insane. If people use half their brain and read with discretion and logic the internet can be a life saving resource. Doctors should encourage patients to use it and provide them guidance as to which sites are the best.
What's even worse is when you are a physician and start delving into textbooks looking for reasons for your symptoms. Medical students are the worst hypochondriacs out there.
It's funny -- if not amusing -- but it's also a subtle indication of what's wrong with modern medicine. The focus is exclusively on disease symptoms rather than health. Interestingly, modern medicine doesn't even have a definition of health.
Which makes sense, I guess, given that it can't cure anything. All they can do in most cases is suppress symptoms in order to trick you into believing you're better, often with medicines that will create a different disease which they will pretend is completely unrelated.
Even the "miracle drug" antibiotics is threatening to become the worst enemy mankind has ever known. We still have plagues -- think AIDS -- and now we have staphylococcus and other bacteria that used to be fairly stable in relation to humans but have now morphed into something 10 times more powerful and basically unstoppable. In the meantime, the pharmaceutical companies keep turning out stronger antibiotics which themselves have become a threat by destroying the immune system.
Well, I've been almost killed by doctors also. Mine was with the assistance of all the hospital staff. I was completely at their mercy with no one to advocate for me, and they didn't believe me-in fact they ignored me. I had an undiagnosed spinal headache and could not get up, in fact could barely move my head; and they were refusing me any fluids or nourishment, saying I had to get up and get it myself-that I had to "help myself." At admission they had d/c all my medications cold turkey including meds to prevent migraines (anticonvulsants) and a medrol dose pack I had been taking for a severe intractable migraine. I was taking nothing at all for pain.
Believe it or not, they also doctored my medical records. If you look very closely you can see inconsistencies in the chart (I'm in the medical field and know what to look for) such as doctors' evals that are clearly made up but not made up enough to belong to another patient. There are also inconsistencies in medication records and what the nurses notes say they gave me. It's unbelievable. I don't think suing is the answer anyway-I think getting my story out is more important, and I fully intend to do so when the timing is right.
I have a child with epilepsy, the only information I can find on that is on the internet, including locating the local chapter of the Epilepsy Foundation. Our local library has two shelves packed full and overflowing with books on autism, and there is only one small, skinny, 30-year old volume on epilepsy--and it's a cookbook. The chat rooms and on-line communities have been invaluable. The neurologist never fully explained the terms that we needed to know in order to have a real discussion, looking up those terms at least helps us to use the right words when asking our questions in the limited time that we have with the doctor.
Yeah, depend on a 20 minute appointment with a busy doctor when you have complex issues and see how it goes for you. It is true that it does require careful research but I have so many stories about what happens when you lack information. My sweet nephew is sleeping downstairs because after dealing with some awful doctors, I found one who actually understood epilepsy and cared to help him. Yes, gasp, on the internet. Previously, his neurologists told him to go to the emergency room, where they told him to call his neurologist, round and round. I researched. I struggled. I got him to the right doc and instead of having a tonic clonic seizure every 3 days, they are rare. He was crazed, not himself and got locked up for mental problems. Before the internet, he would have died because I could not have researched his problem and got him to the right doctor. Or, my sister with brain cancer (glioblastoma multiform). Many horror stories. Her cancer doc told her in her first appointment to prepare to die soon. I told her to prepare to die but not without a grand fight. They proposed intravenous medication with limited success rates; I found that she was qualified for help from the drug company to get a drug by mouth that was less toxic and more effective. She lived for 4 years instead of the 2 to 6 months her first doctor directly told her. Maybe she would have anyway. I doubt it. But she believed she had hope and control. On to my brother who was misdiagnosed for his whole life, till I discovered he had a not well-known form of bipolar in which the "manic" phase is expressed as anger and irritability. Knowing this, I was able to get him medication and he is off the streets and in an apartment with a good situation and a loving dog. Recently, I had an endocrinologist state that my nephew with diabetes shouldn't eat so many beans because they are high in carbs. I didn't argue, but they are a great source of protein and the carbs are mitigated by the high fiber content. She should have said watch out for simple carbs, saturated fats. Hit me if I am wrong but I find nothing that works as well to stabilize his blood sugar as foods like that. I have many other stories where I was able to get information that helped me or others. I love my doctor and I learn from her, but she is not my only source of information, and I am grateful that she appreciates my love of good nutrition and healthy living. I get that this tool can be misused, but it's like saying that all knives could be banned because some people cut themselves.
I've found on several occasions doctors were not up-to-date on the latest research coming from news articles. They simply don't have time to keep up with everything. I think they might be a little intimidated that patients come to them with printouts that contain medical advances that they are "supposed to" know about. It's a pride thing. Now in the Internet age, doctors are going to have to try even harder to keep up with research advances so they don't get upstaged by their patients.
The state of medicine in these United States is truly pathetic...doctors give you 15 minutes of their time, do no physical exam and fail to diagnose in an alarming number of cases. If you come back a second time with the same ailment you are sent to a specialist who again fails to diagose. I have 2 college degrees and an IQ of 148.
After going to seven doctors over the last 2 years with an strange 'illness' that I felt was killing me, I ended up in an emergency room because I went into heavy seizures in a grocery store. The ER Doc sent me home after Catscans produced no results, and a day later my regular "doctor" told me i had a 'tic' in my entire body from stress, I got so angry I decided to hit the internet. After typing in my medication and 2 major symtoms (seizues and nausea) I came up with Seratonin syndrome. I went to a neursurgeon 2 days later and she verified.
I fired my regular doctor who told me he was sorry but he had never 'seen' seratonin syndrome before so didn't recognise it. I told him I saw about 6 computers in his office and 3 people doing nothing and there was no excuse.
Just so you know I have successfully self-diagnosed a gallstone that was causing me a lot of pain, macular degeneration in my sister, and various other ailments my frinds and family have had.
Maybe doctors offices need to acknowledge that there is too much information for any 1 man to remember or recognise and have on staff a medical reseacher who enters symptoms and gets a diagnosis the doctor can explore.
It's like we are living in the dark ages of medical technology and the doctors ability to use it.
I told my doctor to get a program for his computer that would recomend and flag clients for pertinent tests at a given age and he looked at me like I was insane.
Kathie, you may want to buy a Merck manual. It's what the doctors use to diagnose, assuming they are not too lazy or overbooked.
IMO, people need to understand that it doesn't require a great deal of intelligence to graduate medical school. It requires stamina and a good memory. Having a good memory can make people believe you are intelligent because you can rattle off a lot of facts and information. My ex is like that. He has a prodigious memory for stuff he reads, but really is rather stupid. He can't extrapolate as well as my cat.
Anyway, all a doctor does to diagnose -- assuming he bothers to do this much -- is look up your symptoms in Merck, order tests to confirm, and then look up meds in the PDR. His years of experience can be a blessing or a curse, depending on his level of arrogance and stupidity, and how complicated or obscure your problem.
In most cases, with the exception of ordering tests, you can do what he does as well or better.
whatever, if there were a reliable network of medical answers we mere citizens wouldn't be cyberchondriacs. I recently cyberchondriac-self-diagnosed myself with semicircular lipoatrophy, which I found through google after extensive searches about my current condition. I firmly believe the condition is real, but there isn't a localized database of symptoms and conditions so I can't confirm my concerns....
Another scenario that taught me not to trust doctors: I had a miscarriage and went to hospital for a D and C. a week later I was feeling severe pain in my pelvic area and getting ill. I went to my GYN 3 times in 10 days and on the final appt he would not see me..he sent his nurse out to give me a card to see a psychiatrist because he said I was a hypocondiac!
I was at home crying and my mother in law came over and took me straight to her Doctor who spent more time with me and found I had a staff infection from the D and C and could have died of it if it kept going untreated.
After some antibiotics I was better in 3 days. I wrote the GYN and told him he was incompetent boob and I would like him to cancel his bill for my care, which he did, but with no apology.
Another time I had heavy peeling skin on my hands and feet and was in a lot of joint pain. I went to a rheumatoligist who told me I must have 'dipped my hands in some chemicals without realizing it" hahahaha I said "oh yeah and did I stick my feet in there too while I was at it"? He practically threw me out of his office.
I went to the University medical center and was diagnosed with lupus and sjogrens syndrome (related to lupus).
I never believe anything they say and go home and research whatever they have told me before I take the medicine or whatever they recomend.
Anxiety is an appropriate response when your doctor has misdiagnosed a potentially fatal condition. If I took the advice to "see your doctor first" , I would have been dead several years ago. As far as diagnosis goes, I find that doctors at my HMO are wrong about 90% of the time, but with access to the internet, I am correct about 70% of the time, and can then seek competent help at the ER or an online pharmacy.
For physical damage doctors are great. For nutritional support they know virtually nothing. They tend to treat symptoms because the medical industry works that way. If you cure the patient, you lose the money stream. They will never prescribe something healthy if there is a drug that will add additional ailments to your condition which creates a vicious cycle of additional medication. Doctors rely too heavily on pharmaceutical sponsored studies which are tainted and ignore many additional health risks in addition to the ones you read on the label.
The comment in the article about drs knowing all is completely bull. I knew I had a medical problem, went online, found a couple of options for what it could be and brought a list of symptoms that I have to my dr. She told me that my symptoms were normal and not to worry. I asked for a referral to someone who knew more about infertility (my symptoms were related to my infertility) and she sent me to an RE. When I told the RE about my conversation with my family doctor he was shocked and could not believe she was so ignorant about basic human biology. He actually wrote her a letter to tell her she was wrong and that she could have saved us all some time by properly diagnosing me! Needless to say, I no longer trust her and have switched family doctors!
For those of you who know about TTC, I asked her if my short luteal phase could indicate that I might have a hormone disorder. She told me that hormones could not cause infertility, simply miscarriages. While she is technically right, miscarrying every month before we knew were pregnant is one of the definitions of infertility because it led to 12 or more months without a positive pregnancy test!
The internet isn't the only ones to misdiagnose. My bosses wife was diagnosed with a life threatening disease, given a few years until the end and no psychological counseling. An e-mail to my sister in law gave hope and the path to the correct diagnosis.
In our area it's worse - in many cases you have to see a "physician's assistant" (PA) with minimal training. Everyone in my family has been misdiagnosed by one PA or another and prescribed inappropriate medications.....
Actually, WebMD has helped me twice. Once I woke up with a terrible pain in my abdomen, but I was so sleepy I couldn't figure out what to do about it. I got on the computer and got on WebMD to try to figure out what was wrong. Eventually I got to a piece of advice - call a doctor. It was the middle of the night, but I finally figured out an option - go to the emergency room! No kidding, I was so groggy, it took that long to figure out what should have been obvious. It's a little scary that I can work the Internet just fine while being half asleep. :)
The other time was after I badly dislocated my shoulder, with a 20-year history of shoulder dislocations behind me (but never this bad). I kept trying to find some way to strengthen it, or get it back into place, or whatever. What I kept coming up with on WebMD was, surgery. I had the surgery a few months later.
So, WebMD did help - but only in guiding me to where I could get some real help!
This article is so true. I've learned to take those WebMD sites and the like with a serious grain of salt. When I do the symptom checker they typically tell me either to seek medical help immediately or that I have something impossible like some childhood develpmental disorder. If I followed that, I'd be in the ER every month and at the doctor's office every week! Fortunately I didn't do that even once; the first time I weighed it and I decided that I'd rather be sick and miserable at home than sick and miserable in a crowded ER. After a while, I got better. Now I just give everything time, thinking that if it's really bad it won't go away. Of course, I do know the symptoms of a heart attack or stroke and I know that those must be acted on immediately.
This is one of the root causes for my serious panic attacks (which landed me in the E.R. after I'd nearly gone hypothermic because I was hyperventilating, they had to bring me heated blankets, which was nice :D). Eventually, I recovered, and have been right as rain since, but I believe that information, mainly from the web, helped fuel the panic and caused me to misdiagnose myself many times.
I had issues with burning and tingling in my legs and feet for almost 2 years, went to a dozen doctors and a score of tests and they didn't know what was wrong with me. I did a ton of online research and none of it helped.
Finally my "simmering" case of shingles became acute and two months later I was much better. My doctor had said he had only ever heard one other possible case like mine.
MEDICINE IS EQUAL PARTS SCIENCE, ART, AND LUCK.
Perhaps when lab on a chip becomes cheaply available things will tip in favor of science.
yeah well you obviously don't know how to use the symptom checker correctly.
Kiseba
Just because you had a problem using the sympton checker, no one else should use them? Drs. are not gods, they don't always get it right. The symptom checker is a tool, not a solution. Using a symptom checker might help some patients to give more precise information about their symptoms to their Dr. which might lead their Dr. to do the correct tests and make a diagnosis faster.
Finally some things us mere mortals can do to learn what we may be plagued by. Doctors are to busy to ask reluctant patients the CORRECT QUESTIONS and then prescribe billions of dollars of quack medications on the way to thousands of patient deaths DUE TO DOCTOR MISDIAGNOSES. NOW IT'S THE PATIENTS FAULT!!!!! BULL CRAP!!!!!!!!
For people with undiagnosed symptoms which doctors have been unable to diagnose or treat successfully, thorough Internet research by the patient or their family may be the KEY to discovering that a RARE disease is responsible.
Some rare diseases have a confusing array of seemingly-random symptoms that may be like the blind men touching and describing different parts of an elephant.
Doctors are NOT knowledgeable about some rare orphan diseases and may have never seen or heard of a patient with one. In these cases, diligent Internet research can uncover information that finally puts all the confusing pieces together.
I have a ZEBRA disease for which the internet (including scholarly articles and medical journal research) has proved INVALUABLE. And yes, I DO know a LOT more about the disease than most doctors.
Very very true. When I was 16 I started having crippling abdominal pain. Not just "ow that hurts" but more like "Excuse me while I drop to the floor screaming." So I was taken to the ER. The doctors said, "Oh you're sixteen...you must be pregnant and hiding it from your mom." I told them it wasn't possible, they called me a liar, and I would get a pregnancy test that was always negative. Eventually they started treating me like someone who was just looking for a fix of pain meds.
So I started looking online and discovered a condition that perfectly matched every single one of my symptoms. The next time it happened I told my GYN, "I really think I have endometriosis." I was armed with a ream of printouts from the internet describing the disease, but I was told I was "way too young" and dismissed.
My mother was furious by this point and took me to a second GYN who went in with a laproscope and found my intestines and pretty much everything else in my abdominal cavity was completely covered in endometrial adhesions. They were removed by laser and it was very literally like getting my life back to have that pain be relieved.
If I hadn't gone searching on the Internet and had just gone with the emergency room doctors I probably would have had a world record for negative pregnancy tests and still no resolution. That said, self diagnosis isn't always the right answer. I had a friend who was once thoroughly convinced that she had a tape worm after reading about them online - turns out she just had an enviable metabolism. But in some cases when you know deep down that the answers the doctors are giving you aren't satisfactory, you need to advocate for yourself and go on your own hunt for information.
chibidraco I truly believe that drs are totally ignorant when it comes to fertility related diseases in young women. I have had drs tell me that it is not possible that I am infertile becuase I am 26! Yea, tell that to the other thousands of couples out there going through this. Just because it is rare does not mean it does not exist! I am happy that you have gotten treatment for your endo, that is truly a horrible condition!
I was diagnosed with DCIS, a form of breast cancer, several years ago. I used the internet to understand my diagnosis, and I used that knowledge to work with my doctors on the best course of treatment. Unfortunately, cancer returned about 5 years later, and I again used the internet to understand what was going on. I made the doctors spell out everything, then I could look it up when I had time. It helped me come up with the questions I needed to understand everything. Cancer free now, and I thank my doctors for that, but any understanding of the disease I had, I got from the internet.
Cancer sucks. Hang in there and within a decade it will be a "manageable" disease with nanotechnology processes for producing protein covered gold spheres to uniquely attach to cancer and "zapped".
I think a huge part of the demand for online help rather than going to a doctor is doctor visits usually include the following:
1) 5-10 minutes with the doctor, 90% of it is looking at his notepad or computer and not giving you the option of bringing up symptoms or things you're concerned about.
2) Doctors giving you a bad attitude when you bring out a list of symptoms, as if you're just making crap up.
3) If a doctor immediately offers to treat X condition with Y expensive drug, and you decline or ask if there is something else that could help, they give you an attitude.
I talked to a doctor once about depression, we discussed my symptoms and determined yes indeed I had depression. He immediately suggested a drug, I told him I would feel better trying counseling first than to immediately go on a pill. His response? "Come back when you've realized it doesn't work and you really want to take my advice seriously."
Conclusion? Counseling worked marvelously. My depression became manageable, and eventually gone. I told my doctor this on a follow up visit, and he just walked out of the room.
The point being people want Medical Advice, they want a doctor to take a few minutes and get to know them, ask deeper questions, give us the opportunity to bring up things without feeling rushed, and to not immediately jump to a pill to cure everything. I want a doctor, not a drug dealer. I want a doctor to respect my beliefs of trying non-chemical methods first if they're at all practical.
Doctors in this country could do well by stripping all drug ads from their offices, and allocate more time to patients especially during their yearly well-man/well-woman exams to ask questions, get to know the patient beyond a chart, and ask lifestyle questions that could indicate a problem even if it's not linked to any obvious issues.
Why would you go to a medical doctor for depression? Why wouldn't your Dr. recommend you to a Psychiatrist or Mental Health Counselor?
Pepster, I've wondered about that phenomenon in doctors too. You go in with aches, they send you to a rheumatologist. You go in with fatigue, they send you to a cardiologist. You have a question about a skin tag? No they can't remove it, they want you to see a dermatologist.
But the minute you mention your mental well being, they're more than eager to give you something. I mentioned at my last doctor's appointment that I was experiencing a lot of stress (work, life, etc.) and she swore up and down that I needed Prozac.
I agree with above posters that the info about certain conditions is often very valuable. I have gotten very important info about medications-particularly side affects not told to me by doctors-and also about certain proceedures I was considering. Perhaps I'm the only one with hypochondriac tendencies! LOL
Doctors do NOT know everything - they are your "employee" such as an auto mechanic is. They have knowledge, true - but they need to know specifics, and way too often, they just want to be (as was mentioned) a drug dealer and get you out of the office. Years ago, I learned, question the doctors. If they won't properly answer you - find another one. Anytime a med is suggested, I ask the following: Are there any other ways to treat this? How long has it been on the market? What are known side effects? What happens if I DON'T treat it? Are there lifestyle choices I could make so this med would be unneccessary? When should I expect improvement in my condition by taking this? When should I come back in if it doesn't seem to be working? Is there a lab test that can confirm I actually HAVE this disease you want to treat? Yeah - some get annoyed. They get fired.
I agree about the employee thing. Doctors have gotten so arrogant and forget that they are hired by you to perform a service. They are not all knowing and regularly make mistakes. The only ones I trust are those that are able to say they don't know and will take the time to find out!
If you need all that one on one time with a doc, then I would highly recommend a concierge service. Physicians don't have gigantic patient panels, and therefore aren't as rushed to keep up with the demand. Most would love to spend the time to talk to the patient about everything, but in today's environment it's just not possible.
That doesn't take that much time to answer those questions - IF the doctor is willing and able. These are things ANY doctor should know before prescribing anything to anyone - and if they don't - fire 'em!
LOL
I have had 3 unrelated life-threatening conditions, one of which required emergency midnight surgery. In each case, I was told repeatedly that nothing was wrong with me.
I absolutely despise doctors. I wouldn't trust one to clean my toilet.
Same here. Doctors have come close to killing me!
Wow. Nice blanket generalizations. Way to slur an entire profession dedicated to helping people. I guess doctors didn't perform the life saving midnight surgery?? Maybe it was prayer or a faith healer? Ooops ! Contradiction!! I am sorry you didn't get the diagnosis you wanted, but if you hate doctors, stay out of the mainstream medical arena. They're plenty of alternative shysters who want your money.
Yes the stupid doctors performed the surgery after I lived for months in agonizing pain while being told it was all in my head until my gall bladder literally burst and almost killed me. They performed the surgery because the AMA functions as an unelected branch of our government and prevents other practitioners access to labs and hospitals. Otherwise, I would never so much as pee on one if he was on fire.
If you are so naive that you believe doctors are a profession dedicated to helping people, God help you because that's the ONLY help you'll get.
As for "alternative shysters" how would you explain the allopaths all jumping on the bandwagon now? It wasn't that long ago that your favorite idiots were lecturing us that what we ate had no effect whatsoever on our health. They are arrogant idiots and have always been arrogant idiots.
I firmly believe that there are very good doctors out there who take their patients seriously, listen, and research before making a diagnosis. That being said, I think the vast majority of doctors are too arrogant and fail to listen or even to respect patients. I have been misdiagnosed to the point I ended up in the hospital for a week fighting off a life threatening infection that shifted my airway. I had gone to 8 different doctors over the course of three months, each of which was very confident his or her diagnosis was correct. None took the time to research my symptoms and several even told me some of my symptoms were in my head. I would write this off to a freak incident were it not for the fact that my son, my mother, and several close friends have all had similar experiences. I am an intelligent woman and with a hair of effort I have been able to research a number of illnesses/injuries that my children and I have had through the years. Going to the doctor with an idea of what could be wrong has allowed me to use doctors to my advantage and ask appropriate questions and challenge them when necessary, so that they are able to make a better diagnosis. I no longer look to them as the experts, but merely another tool to help me care for myself and my family. After all nobody is ever going to take your health as seriously as you are. In this day and age to rely solely on the advice of a doctor when so much information is at your fingertips would be insane. If people use half their brain and read with discretion and logic the internet can be a life saving resource. Doctors should encourage patients to use it and provide them guidance as to which sites are the best.
That would be a liability issue.
What's even worse is when you are a physician and start delving into textbooks looking for reasons for your symptoms. Medical students are the worst hypochondriacs out there.
LOL (My bro is a doc-he said the same thing,)
LOL That can affect anyone who studies health.
It's funny -- if not amusing -- but it's also a subtle indication of what's wrong with modern medicine. The focus is exclusively on disease symptoms rather than health. Interestingly, modern medicine doesn't even have a definition of health.
Which makes sense, I guess, given that it can't cure anything. All they can do in most cases is suppress symptoms in order to trick you into believing you're better, often with medicines that will create a different disease which they will pretend is completely unrelated.
Even the "miracle drug" antibiotics is threatening to become the worst enemy mankind has ever known. We still have plagues -- think AIDS -- and now we have staphylococcus and other bacteria that used to be fairly stable in relation to humans but have now morphed into something 10 times more powerful and basically unstoppable. In the meantime, the pharmaceutical companies keep turning out stronger antibiotics which themselves have become a threat by destroying the immune system.
Well, I've been almost killed by doctors also. Mine was with the assistance of all the hospital staff. I was completely at their mercy with no one to advocate for me, and they didn't believe me-in fact they ignored me. I had an undiagnosed spinal headache and could not get up, in fact could barely move my head; and they were refusing me any fluids or nourishment, saying I had to get up and get it myself-that I had to "help myself." At admission they had d/c all my medications cold turkey including meds to prevent migraines (anticonvulsants) and a medrol dose pack I had been taking for a severe intractable migraine. I was taking nothing at all for pain.
I hope you sued them.
Believe it or not, they also doctored my medical records. If you look very closely you can see inconsistencies in the chart (I'm in the medical field and know what to look for) such as doctors' evals that are clearly made up but not made up enough to belong to another patient. There are also inconsistencies in medication records and what the nurses notes say they gave me. It's unbelievable. I don't think suing is the answer anyway-I think getting my story out is more important, and I fully intend to do so when the timing is right.
I have a child with epilepsy, the only information I can find on that is on the internet, including locating the local chapter of the Epilepsy Foundation. Our local library has two shelves packed full and overflowing with books on autism, and there is only one small, skinny, 30-year old volume on epilepsy--and it's a cookbook. The chat rooms and on-line communities have been invaluable. The neurologist never fully explained the terms that we needed to know in order to have a real discussion, looking up those terms at least helps us to use the right words when asking our questions in the limited time that we have with the doctor.
Yeah, depend on a 20 minute appointment with a busy doctor when you have complex issues and see how it goes for you. It is true that it does require careful research but I have so many stories about what happens when you lack information. My sweet nephew is sleeping downstairs because after dealing with some awful doctors, I found one who actually understood epilepsy and cared to help him. Yes, gasp, on the internet. Previously, his neurologists told him to go to the emergency room, where they told him to call his neurologist, round and round. I researched. I struggled. I got him to the right doc and instead of having a tonic clonic seizure every 3 days, they are rare. He was crazed, not himself and got locked up for mental problems. Before the internet, he would have died because I could not have researched his problem and got him to the right doctor. Or, my sister with brain cancer (glioblastoma multiform). Many horror stories. Her cancer doc told her in her first appointment to prepare to die soon. I told her to prepare to die but not without a grand fight. They proposed intravenous medication with limited success rates; I found that she was qualified for help from the drug company to get a drug by mouth that was less toxic and more effective. She lived for 4 years instead of the 2 to 6 months her first doctor directly told her. Maybe she would have anyway. I doubt it. But she believed she had hope and control. On to my brother who was misdiagnosed for his whole life, till I discovered he had a not well-known form of bipolar in which the "manic" phase is expressed as anger and irritability. Knowing this, I was able to get him medication and he is off the streets and in an apartment with a good situation and a loving dog. Recently, I had an endocrinologist state that my nephew with diabetes shouldn't eat so many beans because they are high in carbs. I didn't argue, but they are a great source of protein and the carbs are mitigated by the high fiber content. She should have said watch out for simple carbs, saturated fats. Hit me if I am wrong but I find nothing that works as well to stabilize his blood sugar as foods like that. I have many other stories where I was able to get information that helped me or others. I love my doctor and I learn from her, but she is not my only source of information, and I am grateful that she appreciates my love of good nutrition and healthy living. I get that this tool can be misused, but it's like saying that all knives could be banned because some people cut themselves.
I've found on several occasions doctors were not up-to-date on the latest research coming from news articles. They simply don't have time to keep up with everything. I think they might be a little intimidated that patients come to them with printouts that contain medical advances that they are "supposed to" know about. It's a pride thing. Now in the Internet age, doctors are going to have to try even harder to keep up with research advances so they don't get upstaged by their patients.
The state of medicine in these United States is truly pathetic...doctors give you 15 minutes of their time, do no physical exam and fail to diagnose in an alarming number of cases. If you come back a second time with the same ailment you are sent to a specialist who again fails to diagose. I have 2 college degrees and an IQ of 148.
After going to seven doctors over the last 2 years with an strange 'illness' that I felt was killing me, I ended up in an emergency room because I went into heavy seizures in a grocery store. The ER Doc sent me home after Catscans produced no results, and a day later my regular "doctor" told me i had a 'tic' in my entire body from stress, I got so angry I decided to hit the internet. After typing in my medication and 2 major symtoms (seizues and nausea) I came up with Seratonin syndrome. I went to a neursurgeon 2 days later and she verified.
I fired my regular doctor who told me he was sorry but he had never 'seen' seratonin syndrome before so didn't recognise it. I told him I saw about 6 computers in his office and 3 people doing nothing and there was no excuse.
Just so you know I have successfully self-diagnosed a gallstone that was causing me a lot of pain, macular degeneration in my sister, and various other ailments my frinds and family have had.
Maybe doctors offices need to acknowledge that there is too much information for any 1 man to remember or recognise and have on staff a medical reseacher who enters symptoms and gets a diagnosis the doctor can explore.
It's like we are living in the dark ages of medical technology and the doctors ability to use it.
I told my doctor to get a program for his computer that would recomend and flag clients for pertinent tests at a given age and he looked at me like I was insane.
Kathie, you may want to buy a Merck manual. It's what the doctors use to diagnose, assuming they are not too lazy or overbooked.
IMO, people need to understand that it doesn't require a great deal of intelligence to graduate medical school. It requires stamina and a good memory. Having a good memory can make people believe you are intelligent because you can rattle off a lot of facts and information. My ex is like that. He has a prodigious memory for stuff he reads, but really is rather stupid. He can't extrapolate as well as my cat.
Anyway, all a doctor does to diagnose -- assuming he bothers to do this much -- is look up your symptoms in Merck, order tests to confirm, and then look up meds in the PDR. His years of experience can be a blessing or a curse, depending on his level of arrogance and stupidity, and how complicated or obscure your problem.
In most cases, with the exception of ordering tests, you can do what he does as well or better.
whatever, if there were a reliable network of medical answers we mere citizens wouldn't be cyberchondriacs. I recently cyberchondriac-self-diagnosed myself with semicircular lipoatrophy, which I found through google after extensive searches about my current condition. I firmly believe the condition is real, but there isn't a localized database of symptoms and conditions so I can't confirm my concerns....
Another scenario that taught me not to trust doctors: I had a miscarriage and went to hospital for a D and C. a week later I was feeling severe pain in my pelvic area and getting ill. I went to my GYN 3 times in 10 days and on the final appt he would not see me..he sent his nurse out to give me a card to see a psychiatrist because he said I was a hypocondiac!
I was at home crying and my mother in law came over and took me straight to her Doctor who spent more time with me and found I had a staff infection from the D and C and could have died of it if it kept going untreated.
After some antibiotics I was better in 3 days. I wrote the GYN and told him he was incompetent boob and I would like him to cancel his bill for my care, which he did, but with no apology.
Another time I had heavy peeling skin on my hands and feet and was in a lot of joint pain. I went to a rheumatoligist who told me I must have 'dipped my hands in some chemicals without realizing it" hahahaha I said "oh yeah and did I stick my feet in there too while I was at it"? He practically threw me out of his office.
I went to the University medical center and was diagnosed with lupus and sjogrens syndrome (related to lupus).
I never believe anything they say and go home and research whatever they have told me before I take the medicine or whatever they recomend.
Anxiety is an appropriate response when your doctor has misdiagnosed a potentially fatal condition. If I took the advice to "see your doctor first" , I would have been dead several years ago. As far as diagnosis goes, I find that doctors at my HMO are wrong about 90% of the time, but with access to the internet, I am correct about 70% of the time, and can then seek competent help at the ER or an online pharmacy.
Computer problems are the 21 Century's biggest threat to the entire world!!!!!
For physical damage doctors are great. For nutritional support they know virtually nothing. They tend to treat symptoms because the medical industry works that way. If you cure the patient, you lose the money stream. They will never prescribe something healthy if there is a drug that will add additional ailments to your condition which creates a vicious cycle of additional medication. Doctors rely too heavily on pharmaceutical sponsored studies which are tainted and ignore many additional health risks in addition to the ones you read on the label.
The comment in the article about drs knowing all is completely bull. I knew I had a medical problem, went online, found a couple of options for what it could be and brought a list of symptoms that I have to my dr. She told me that my symptoms were normal and not to worry. I asked for a referral to someone who knew more about infertility (my symptoms were related to my infertility) and she sent me to an RE. When I told the RE about my conversation with my family doctor he was shocked and could not believe she was so ignorant about basic human biology. He actually wrote her a letter to tell her she was wrong and that she could have saved us all some time by properly diagnosing me! Needless to say, I no longer trust her and have switched family doctors!
For those of you who know about TTC, I asked her if my short luteal phase could indicate that I might have a hormone disorder. She told me that hormones could not cause infertility, simply miscarriages. While she is technically right, miscarrying every month before we knew were pregnant is one of the definitions of infertility because it led to 12 or more months without a positive pregnancy test!
Doctor's burry their mistakes!
The internet isn't the only ones to misdiagnose. My bosses wife was diagnosed with a life threatening disease, given a few years until the end and no psychological counseling. An e-mail to my sister in law gave hope and the path to the correct diagnosis.
In our area it's worse - in many cases you have to see a "physician's assistant" (PA) with minimal training. Everyone in my family has been misdiagnosed by one PA or another and prescribed inappropriate medications.....
Actually, WebMD has helped me twice. Once I woke up with a terrible pain in my abdomen, but I was so sleepy I couldn't figure out what to do about it. I got on the computer and got on WebMD to try to figure out what was wrong. Eventually I got to a piece of advice - call a doctor. It was the middle of the night, but I finally figured out an option - go to the emergency room! No kidding, I was so groggy, it took that long to figure out what should have been obvious. It's a little scary that I can work the Internet just fine while being half asleep. :)
The other time was after I badly dislocated my shoulder, with a 20-year history of shoulder dislocations behind me (but never this bad). I kept trying to find some way to strengthen it, or get it back into place, or whatever. What I kept coming up with on WebMD was, surgery. I had the surgery a few months later.
So, WebMD did help - but only in guiding me to where I could get some real help!