Do you have any idea how a 1099 form would create more tax revenue? It mostly "penalizes" tax dodging contractors, since the businesses that are filling them out and giving them to the IRS don't have to pay additional taxes. They want to track who is receiving the money FROM the small business so they can then properly tax those people.

The small businesses filling these out are only "penalized" for the amount of time and effort it takes to fill out the forms, keep them for awhile, and then send them to the IRS. When you consider the amount of time it takes to run a small business, this additional paperwork, although still a pain in the rear, is not going to put them out of business. If a contractor doesn't want to provide the necessary info to complete the form, then perhaps they don't deserve the business.

Repealing this provision will be a boon to tax dodgers.

Lets put it all on small buisness - I mean they are the backbone of America, lets break em! How bout big brother given em some incentive to keep trying?

Oh get real, in the age of computers this is nothing. Only tax cheats would want it repealed.

If this is nothing then it would only take a small incentive to offset the cost, yes? Try this, open your own small buisness and then post some comment.

I have a small business.....and this is nothing.....now what is your point exactly Russell?

That's not what this provision is about. It's for reporting income being paid at to smaller earners. Then these people earning the money pay tax. It's supposed to be about accounting for every dollar being earned and taxed.

Well, so much for ANY democrat keeping their seat in 2012.

To liberals: Your party just plain sucks.

Welcome to the new Amerika. Your papers please!!

What, no papers... off to the concentration camps for you!!

Lisa, do you own a small business? Do you employ anyone? I do, and I do. I'm FOR "Obamacare". You don't speak for me, Rush doesn't speak for me, Republicans do not speak for me.
Take your "I am America" and "America has spoken" and stuff it.

Wow...all the conservatives who whine and complain about "people not paying their fair share while others foot the bill" seem to be the ones arguing that it's wrong to expect someone to pay taxes on something THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY TAXES ON. Once again--"let's be fiscally responsible unless it means I'M going to have to put money in for it."

This provision never should have been in the health care bill to start with. It is a completely unrelated issue that was stuck in the health care bill as a gimmick to try and show the health care bill as revenue neutral. The impact that this is going to have on small business is huge. The additional record keeping is a significant amount of work for a small business to take on and the reality is that this is not going to bring in anywhere near the revenue they projected in the health care bill. The idea that this will raise revenue at all is highly suspect. Once you factor in the additional costs the IRS will incur in having to deal with this flood of additional 1099s, much of the supposed revenue disappears. However, because the money for the IRS to collect taxes comes from a different pocket, the health care bill side gets to claim the additional tax revenue in their math but does not have to show the expense for collecting it, so the idea that the health care bill is revenue neutral is just an accounting trick, not reality.

River Rat,

I am also a small business owner and a contractor ( kitchens and baths) and I believe if people reported all their income, taxes could be more evenly distributed and we would be in much better shape. Tax cheats hurt all of us, denying a reasonable level of healthcare to anyone and their children is amoral and diminishes us as a people.

JKH

Lisa Lisa what are you talking about - the Obama legislation has given small businesses tax credits for hiring. My husband was a SBA lender and what this administration is doing is helping not hindering - get off the Faux News and learn to think

JS...As time goes on, since none of the Democrats bothered to read the bill before its passage, we will probably begin to see a bunch of others items in this bill that has nothing to do with it, like student loans.

The nanny state created by the Democrats and RINOs of the past 80 years is what is giving rise to the Tea Party. I only wonder what took so long.

SMC - This means more paper work for the guy wanting work done, more postage, more paper, more envelopes, more ink, more time tracking resolving disputes, printing replacements for those who lose theirs, more expense to track, PDF, send to the IRS. . .

This is not a big deal for a business that only has a few people to do this for, but will really harm small businesses who have hundreds to do this for. Just add that to new registration fees dumped on financial businesses, new education requirements to pay for many businesses, higher taxes, higher energy costs, higher health insurance costs, higher credit costs, higher down payments for loans, combined with stagnate sales.

One little straw may seem like nothing, but enough will break a camel's back.

I've dealt with a lot of people. There are cheaters, but more like 1 in 10 or 20. The more you regulate the more underground you will get. This is the general public's way of saying - you in the government are hogs!

Jim Hayes, I agree. Instead of finding ways to make more revenue by getting creative with extra taxation, the government ought to be simplifying the tax code to make everything fit on one page! Lowering tax rates, reducing spending, while closing loopholes and eliminating credits and deductions would be a great place to start.

the US Chamber of Commerce has absolutely NOTHING to do with small business. It is comprised entirely of multinational corporations and is a K Street lobbying concern.

Boy Texas L., you sure need to quit drinking that Koolaid. All of the poor and only some of the "middle class" pay taxes(the upper half that is.) Go do some research at the IRS website and then you will know who really pays the taxes. Maybe looking at the data before you open your mouth will prevent you from looking dumber than the steriotype.

I won't pretend to speak for everybody, but I own a small business. This will take about 10 minutes of my time at the end of the year. The biggest inconvenience is the postage, but it will be more than offset by the savings I will get on one month's health insurance premium. I'd be happier if they did away with the filing provision, but it's not that big a deal to me if they don't.

With Quick book, and other small business software I do not understand how it is a hardship to report paying a vendor $600 or more to the IRS all it does is stop the under the table tax dodgers, those building contractors working for cash, and others that are not paying their taxes like those of use working for a pay check.

Look at all those in the Gulf that are crying foul right now because they can not get paid for lost income because all these years they worked off the books not paying taxes, they earned over $100,000 and much more each year and never paid a dime in taxes and now are screaming foul when they can not collect form BP because they do not have any income or tax records to prove their income, everyone was working under the table for cash and did not report their income from what they were doing.

All a small business person has to do when they pay a vendor is ask for that companies tax ID number, enter into their quick books along with the other information that quick books will ask to generate the check, quick books will generate the forms, fill them out all the business owner does is review and sign them and mail them. I have consulted with small and med. size businesses, I know Corp. accountants and all this law does is catch tax cheats.

Patrick-1112710
Papers> only Americans will have to have those... The DEMS give a free pass to any one that is Illegally here.

See all you libs in 2112 bye-bye commies

Sam Cranford tells you lies about who pays what taxes in this country. GOP SOB SOP.

I am another small business owner (Founded in 1999) who supports Obama, his healthcare bill, and letting the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% expire.

The GOP retook the house 27 days ago. Where are all the jobs?

jcj...., when do the new "smarter then you" Republicans start??? Did you think the they are part of that lame duck thing in Washington?How is your government bailout working for you? How many union employees do you have? Where are all those new jobs you ask, why you are a Obama supporter, so how many did you and Obama make? Hmmm, sounds like you are looking for a job. So I'm going to help you out, what do you make? I want to run to wal-mart and buy your stuff!!! American buying American, now thats the ticket!!

AZChzhd and others objecting to the reporting requirement: this is actually designed to close a loophole which allows independent contractors to report their sales on the 'honor system'. By requiring these reports from the businesses purchasing from the ICs, the IRS will have a means of checking the accuracy of the ICs reports.

Tax avoidance - taking advantage of all legal means to reduce your tax bill is fine; tax evasion - using illegal means to reduce your tax bill is...illegal. Under-reporting sales to reduce your taxes is clearly tax evasion.

Why anyone would support keeping a system that is so easily cheated is beyond me.

Something to note: while the new reporting requires disclosure of purchases over $600 from any one vendor - that does not mean that there aren't any sales in larger (perhaps significantly larger) amounts.

Hey Republicans? FU!!!! Access to HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT that ALL Americans shoukd have......

Lose your starched OLD LADY panties and move into the reality of what is RIGHT for Americans.....moan and groan, then get OVER it..............

<PS. Your John Boehner needs to apply more sun screen, else we'll ALL pay for his melanoma treatments.........talk to him, Repubs, as ONLY "you" can......>

Anyone who thinks that this stupid provision is going to bring more money into the treasury has to be a liberal democrat congress person. No one else on the planet is that stupid.

If the Feds would SET AN EXAMPLE and ALL of them file their taxes,then perhaps these name-calling do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-in-jerks wouldn't be so hated.Here we have to deal with rick scott who apparently will file taxes with a dam prepaid visa.

Let's just require giving a 1099 everytime anyone pays in cash. You know....those waiters, waitresses, bartenders, pizza delivery people. How dare they not report all their tips....Oh my, how about them exotic dancers....minimum wage on the books, a thousand or more in $1.00 bills a week....buy something at a garage sale and give the guy you just bought a used skateboard from a 1099....

Better yet.....let's do away with cash.

Everyone must have a card swiper connected to the IRS. This way they can tax every penny anyone earns. They take the tax out and then send the rest to your bank account. Yeah, it really bugs me that pimps and ho's and drug dealers aren't paying their fair share of income taxes. Especially all those high priced escorts in DC...... Tax bribes and extortion, campaign contributions...this is sounding better all the time....oh wait, as they always do, Congress will exempt themselves....

Paying taxes is patriotic. Tax cheats hurt everyone. 'baggers seem to think everything should be free and shouldn't be allowed to vote because their brains are the size of a pea.

jcj78...I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people do not know the new congresspeople do not get sworn in til Jan!!!! They don't jump right in November 3rd. Thats why this is a lame duck session.

For 2 months, people who are pissed off about their loss and do not care anymore are going to ram in anything they can get before they leave.

John...why are you singling me out? I didnt say a word about what you are talking about.

jcj78...I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people do not know the new congresspeople do not get sworn in til Jan!!!! They don't jump right in November 3rd. Thats why this is a lame duck session.

Product of a modern American educational system.

Most likely a liberal democrat

To those who are saying that this is no big deal. Perhaps you should read this article from CNN:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/smallbusiness/1099_health_care_tax_change/index.htm

This isn't about a single purchase in excess of $600, this is about all purchases from a single vendor within a tax year adding up to $600 or more.

That means that if a small business buys more than $600 in goods from a local retailer in a year, they will have to prepare and send them 1099.

Spend more than $600 during the year at OfficeMax, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, or the local flower shop and your busines will have to prepare and send them a 1099.

Thank you Scott. I have been making this exact point and few of the defenders seem to care. It's all just going to be automated, easy and almost free according to them. Lol.

Almost 30 days since GOPers won, where are the jobs? I thought surely that as soon as corporate America saw that the American people put their peeps in office that they would start kicking down some of those record profits now that there is a "pro-business" House-elect. What gives?

Stop making excuses Old Dog and you fake AZer. Just show me the jobs.

Old Dog, I am a turf grass producer. I'm thrilled that you want to buy some sod. Where will I send the trucks? I assume that means that there is new construction in your area, which means that the banks there must be loaning money. Where is this magical place? See, my small business is located in Madison County, AL, which is consistently one of Forbes and Money magazines top picks as areas to find employment and to live and was in fact, Forbe's '#1 Place to Survive the Economic Downturn'. But still, there is not a lot of new contstruction, because banks won't lend money, which is required for new construction. In fact, I planted a good bit of soybeans on what would've been fescue ground, because there was no market for fescue.

Now GOPers claim this lack of lending is because of over-regulation, and then offer no evidence to support this claim. I claim that it is because they are greedy SOBs, and offer as evidence that their partners in corportate America are making record profits. Tell me lackey, what's your theory?

As for what jobs I have created, I let people go. Of course, I did this back when the housing market collapsed, back when your boy Dubya was what passed for a POTUS, and a job creating GOP one, too.

Anyway, I'd be a lot more worried if you had a candidate who wasn't a canuck with a clown car vagina and questionable genetics for your next POTUS candidate. But the reality is, that's what you bring to the table. I can't wait to see the tantrum you asshats throw when Barry O gets re-elected by YOUR OWN grandkids.

Votes cast by voters 18-30 in 2008= 21,000,000

Votes cast by voters 18-30 in 2010= 9,000,000

GOP margin of victory in 2010 = 5,000,000

If just half of the 11,000,000 Voters, aged 18-30 who stayed home for the midterms come back to vote again in 2012, you lose, again. IF JUST HALF.

Now we all know that old white people won't vote for Obama. In 2008, no white demographic voted for Obama except the 18-30 year olds. In 2012, no white demographic will vote for Obama except the 18-30 year olds. But that's all it will take. White Baby Boomers, you greedy SOBs, your days of running the show are over. Get used to it. STFU and sit down, or get ready to be put in your place by your own grandkids, again. Its up to you. Just remember that in a few years, we'll have your power of attorney when your dementia gets a little worse.

Almost 30 days since GOPers won, where are the jobs? I thought surely that as soon as corporate America saw that the American people put their peeps in office that they would start kicking down some of those record profits now that there is a "pro-business" House-elect. What gives?

Obama is still blaming George Bush even though he's been gone for two years and there was a Democratic congress for four. He just did it today as part of his "summit" speech. So how can a single house of congress who hasn't been seated yet be responsible for current job creation? Which is it? Is it the president's fault or congress? You guys love having it both ways. Blame GWB from two years ago and also the new congress that hasn't even been sworn in, while never, ever taking a lick of blame on yourselves. Sad.

That would be because the economic downturn started on Dubya's watch, after he let the terrorists attack us and never caught them.

Before Dubya got sacked in 06 the GOP had full run of the nation for 6 years. And they dug this giant hole and tossed the rest of us in it. And you thank them for it, lackey. I bet you're hoping there's some good scraps in your bowl tonight, huh doggie?

Its called history, you should read some of it sometime. Obviously that's generally too much trouble for you tools, who keep proposing Hoovernomics every twenty years like something has changed that will make that voodoo work all of a sudden.

Hilarious.

You didn't answer my question. Which is it?

jcj78...fake? lol Whats up with that? What did I ever do to you? I was just wondering why you are blaming people that aren't even in power yet and wont be for another 2 months.

So the recession started on Bush's watch...true. Maybe if the Democrats put forth a respectable candidate in '04 things would be different? Worse maybe? Bush introduced legislation a few times to tackle the root of the lending industry problems, Fannie and Freddie. But the Democrats, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in particular, led the crusade to filibuster and kill that. The Democrats are the ones in bed with Fannie and Freddie, and I mean that literally since that fudgepacker, Barney Frank, his hunny worked for Freddie.

A little bit of history shows that just about every president inherited a recession of come kind from the former POTUS. Bush inherited the dot.com bust from Clinton plus a recession after 9/11. Amazing, the unemployment averaged, under Bush through not 1 but 3 recessions, around 5%. Clinton inherited a recession from Bush Sr. Reagan got his from Carter. The list goes on and on and on. Does it matter?

Now if you want to bury the hatchet, I need some sod. I need to put grass in my backyard and side and seeds dont take well under the Arizona sun.

Once the Demos took over Congress in Jan 2007, things took a dip for the worse quickly at that point. It wasn't until the Dems had a year in Congress til the crap really start hitting the fan. Dec 2007, the market began its slow death spiral.

I did answer your question John, before you even asked it:
I thought surely that as soon as corporate America saw that the American people put their peeps in office that they would start kicking down some of those record profits now that there is a "pro-business" House-elect. What gives?

What gives lackey?

AZfaker- Let me know when you're coming to pick up your sod. Otherwise I might mistake you for one of the ag-killing Minute Men who murdered Rob Krentz and shoot you in percieved self-defense. That would definitely put a damper on your fake outrage, now wouldn't it?

You're right about one thing: Once corporate America saw that the orgy-parties were coming to an end in '07 they stuck their bottom lip out and are still in danger of tripping over it. I guess when you own all three branches of government for six years you kind of get used to it, huh? So they are still threatening to take their ball (which is not really theirs anyway), and go home. Poor widdle babies. Good thing that they have lackeys on leashes like you to do their bidding and spread their falsehoods, ain't it? Too bad your grandkids know what a sucker you are and don't fall for the same BS. That's why you lost in 08, and that's why the canuck clown car will get blown out of the water once we get her the GOP nod in 12.

What the hell are you talking about?? Because I am from Phoenix makes me public enemy number one in your eyes? Do you hate all Arizonan's for what certain politicians do here?? When did this discussion become about illegal immigration? Why are you on my ass about Robert Krentz and border issue and minutemen? Why all the personal attacks and assumptions about my life and Arizona? In other words, what do you have against me? WTF??

I don't like lackies. I'm sorry that offends you. Naw, I'm really not. I'm glad it does. It should. Because little lackies offend me, so its just recipriocity. I wasn't "on your ass" I was just looking out for your safety and personal well being. I didn't want to accidently shoot you.

How about you take your sod money and buy some thicker skin, crybaby? Why don't you and Sarah Palin start a club for people that everybody is just mean to for no reason?

I don't like fascists, AZchild, and you reveal yourself to be one. That's WTF, sissy.

I did answer your question John, before you even asked it

Ah, now I see. You didn't comprehend the question. It's ok little fella. Maybe one day your mom and dad will stage an intervention to break you away from World of Warcraft long enough to attend a few of your middle school classes so you can learn, although I don't hold out much hope if you're in a public school.

I did graduate public school, then public college. Then I went into business for myself, entirely self reliant. I'm sure that's completely alien to a trust fund baby, ain't it?

Maybe you could take some of that chingy chingy and buy AZchild some thicker skin?

I'm sorry that it offended you that I exposed your lack of reading comprehension. Maybe you shouldn't play with the big kids, if your feelings are just gonna get hurt?

Tell your grandkids merry christmas, and thank em for me in advance for re-electing POTUS Barry O. You'll still have time to pop a viagra before Hannity comes on.

My feelings aren't hurt. I'm just speculating about why you can't seem to understand my question. It's not complicated or particularly challenging. I guess I'm being coy, though, because the I already know the real answer. You are seeing the world through your liberally biased glasses, and in that world, conservatives are always the problem (although I don't consider Bush to have been a conservative...but I'm trying to put myself if your shoes). So if Bush is the president and there is a liberal congress, Bush is the problem. If there is a hard left wing administration and a hard left congress that gets the royal smack down in an election, now the conservative elect is the problem. So....ultimately, with regard to you and your opinion....I just think....whatever....and shrug. Thanks for the laugh, though. ;-)

I have heard not ONE solution for this country's current crisis from the Tea Party or GOP. They are awesome at generating hate and discontent among this country's zealots that take their daily marching orders from the likes of Rush and Beck ( You do realize if you didn't buy what these two were selling, they'd be looking for work along side the millions out of work today right?) Boggles the mind!

This is just another way of shining the light on tax evading scum that care only for themselves. How much is enough and at what cost? It's as UNAmerican as you can get.

jcj 78 259..., Glade to hear that you are a farmer, I real have no need for sod at this time! Its getting cold here and the snow is stating to make things white! And also I do not have a lot of time to talk politics, but you did say that you had planted soybeans and that made me want to share something with you! On the farm report, (a radio talk show) this Sunday morning, they made the comment that soybeans are in big demand in China! Exports this year are looking good and driving up the price! I hope that your crop worked out for you! I looked up Mike Austins Ag report on the stations web site, but I could not find the story, but here is a link anyway. Good luck and I hope things work out for you! http://one.wtaq.com/stationfiles/shows/mikeaustinag.asp?catid=5&subcatid=23

This happened in the Senate where Dems still hold a majority. If you're looking for Change, you'll have to tune to the House side.

Nothing will change as one chamber can't do anything without the other but...

Once the temp holiday employment runs out.... and 3 months later.... watch the Fed/Labor dept, down grade the outlook again. Also look for a new round of small business closures and 1st time unemployment filings.

I'll know I'll hear about this now.... I'll be nice and hold my I told you so till April.

(p.s. - Thanks again Nevada!)

We tried the Unions bussed their employees to the polls, straight from the Casino's. Plus when you went in Reids name was already checked, you had to uncheck it. Oh did I metion the Unions suprvised the polling places SEIU was in charge in NV.

Oh plllease - if the kooks on the far Right hadn't nominated such a crackpot - they might have actually won this time. But even lifelong Republicans in Nevada realized that they couldn't afford to lose Harry Reid in the Senate.
That's what happens when you nominate a complete looney-tune like that Sharon Angle kook. I personally am "more qualified" to serve in the Senate.
Harry Reid is "effective" and has done great things for Nevada.

As a small business person myself this will be easy to generate and I look forward to it. As a programmer I know these forms will be easily generated in most corporations. What this will finally do is nail all those tax dodgers.

Whoppeedud

take a civics class and see how the system works...

Your are aware that none of the 63 congressmen and 6 senators have taken office yet, right?

Another rant from a corporate welfare recipient. Now it is the "left wing" that is against business BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT PROOF OF REQUESTED BUSINESS EXPENSES. WHY DON'T WE JUST STOP ALL TAX'S. Why don't we just stop all government. Why don't we just SHOOT anyone that has something we want. Why do we need government? YOU FOOLS, GOVERNMENT IS THE ONLY THING KEEPING YOU ALIVE, YOU IDIOT! Without tax's we cannot survive ALONE! Everyone believes they are a rock and not vulnerable to the whims and wishes of the "outside" world, WE ARE NOT! I NEED OTHERS THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE, YOU NEED ME TO CONTRIBUTE, WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER! STOP YOUR WHINING AND PAY YOUR TAX'S, IT WILL HELP PROTECT YOUR OFFSPRING MORE THAN YOUR FEEBLE ATTEMPTS!

Wow, talk about a rant. I value a constitutional government that restricts it's activities to those enumerated powers that provide for equal opportunity for me and everyone. Most of what you've written about government is laughable and shows how steeped in left wing ideology you are. I suppose you like it that your government is the first, second, third and fourth thing you have to cope with every day because its presence instills the illusion in you that you're safe. As for me, I choose liberty over tyranny.

I prefer government over anarchy. Checks and balances. The rule of law. All that good government stuff.

B Dune - You're the 1 that's assumed the post meant something it didn't say.

The article spoke only of Senate inaction. If you're looking for CHANGE, you'll have to look to the House. Doesn't mean you're going to get it but it's the only place where Republicans made big gains. Got that now?

Don't need a civics class - teach 1. What do you do, B Dune, besides spit the usual sarcasm?

PLM - NO business looks forward to doing any paperwork - unless it is going to generate revenue for them. Good try though!

John, get the @!$%# over your self-centered self.

John, get the @!$%# over your self-centered self.

Ok, done! Now what? ;-)

@WhoopTeeDo: Sure, look to the House and expect things to change. That is why over 400 House bills are still languishing in the Senate and will have to be readdressed in the 112th Congress, since most if any will not be addressed in this lame duck session. The Senate has the final say before a Conference committee on bills getting to the President.

As for people blaming Obama for this, it was the Congress who put that into the bill. As for other "non-related" items in the final bill, they are related because the final bill was NOT just a healthcare reform bill but a healthcare and education reform measure. That is why HRC is not the correct acronym for the final bill that was signed into law. This is typical of how bills come out of conference committee not looking like the original bills passed by the separate legislative bodies. The same goes for the stages of a bill. The original House version of HRC was a compromise on the THREE committee bills. The Senate bill was a compromise on the TWO committee bills, and the final bill was the House/Senate conference committee version.

Whoopteedo,

"This happened in the Senate where Dems still hold a majority. If you're looking for Change, you'll have to tune to the House side."

The only reason why it didn't pass in the Senate is because they couldn't agree on how to make up the lost revenue. That's even in the article so I guess you didn't read it. The Democrats admit they don't like it so don't make it sound like they do. They just couldn't agree on the fix but they agree it needs to be fixed. There is a big difference.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you're a CEO of a major company you probably have a lot to be thankful for on Turkey Day. The government reported Tuesday that corporate earnings hit a record in the third quarter.

Businesses collectively posted profits of $1.67 trillion, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. That's up 28% from a year ago.

Yeah, Johnny G 212, that OBAMA and the DEMS. Corporations and Businesses only turned in RECORD PROFITS under the DEMS and OBAMA. Yeah, so much for being Anti-Business. I wish they were as Anti-Mr. Truth 2731651 and they are anti-business. Maybe I'll have record income next year too !!! I like you you guys always complain about government intrusion, well, I mean, except when it comes to PROFILING "other" people of a certain color or religious affiliation. I'm sure you were all for the ARIZONA "show me your papers" law. When it's, you know "those people" then, it's hey, too bad. TS. But when YOU GUYS are the one under the governments scrutiny, now all of a sudden, it's SOCIALIST OBAMA, COMRADE OBAMA....... 3 words for you. HIP. PO. CRITE!

This proves how many people have no idea what is going on!!! Here is one for you "Government Health Care, Take Care of Me I'm a Lazy Fool" people! Just got back from CVS and what a shock I got. I know that the Democrats plan to screw us with their Health Care Bill and it was going to start killing jobs next year. But the sad news is that it already started!!

First, we know that we will be charged $625.00 next year for my wife medication, now we pay $100.00 this is to pay for Obama dream crushing health care bill!! But today I was told that my co-pay for the kids’ medication went up to 100.00, it was 60.00 the reason is to start paying for the new health care bill that we are being forced to take part in!

Second, The lady who works there told me that her dad who sells Health care insurance is just got the good news from the Obummer plan, He will have to sell 5 times more next year to make the same money he made this year!!! She told me that her dad and her were big Obama fans, but she said seeing people dish out more money for meds, (some just saying that they will go with out), that they will never vote for a democrat again!!! Wait when she sees this article!!! Yep it is printed and I’m going to give it to her just to keep that fire burning!

And last, who makes out with this new bill? Don't know; well ask the hospitals CEOs, they are planning huge profits!! Not doctors, not the nurses, not people that work in the lab, the CEOs with the 4 year business degree are going to make the huge Obama bucks, the same ones who now thinks that they are in control of your health care! You say I'm wrong, nope I'm right, because a doctor here was told that she might need to work some place else. Why is that, well she is a gynecologist and she was told that she is not getting enough women in for a hysterectomy! The business unit manager said that they need to pay for their fancy new helicopter and if she can not keep the operation room full, that they will need to find someone who can! This is also a non-profit hospital, and how they can call themselves that is beyond me! The pay out huge profit sharing to their members of interest!! One other doctor at the same healthcare origination was told that he can no longer work at the free clinic because he was stealing business from the greedy hospitals CEOs!!! They told him if he still wants to donate time to help the needy, he needs to go outside the country!! So Obama fixed what? Sounds like he is working for the fat cat hospitals CEOs!! So who do we need to vote out next to get this Obama mess cleaned up!!!

2012 send some more liberals home, vote them all out!!! We sure don't need them to make our lives any better!! Ask your doctor if they will make more or less next year, I was shocked that Obama is stealing from them too!!! $250,000.00 or less is another Obama lie, he is stealing from us all!!!

Hey, Johnny G. If you want to live in a government free society or as you prefer to call it -- a limited government who exercises only the powers enumerated to it in a strict reading of it's constitution, then boy do I have a place for you !!! A place where you can have ALL the GUNS and AMMO you can carry, holstered, concealed or even mounted to the back of your pick-up truck......hardly any federal government to speak of.....it's called "SOMALIA". I hear things are working out just fine over there !!! Bon voyage!

OldDog26 - who told you the reason for your increased costs was Obamacare? How do you know they were telling the truth? As someone who was at the Conservative Values Summit, I'm sure you were receptive to this idea.

Same thing for the 'lady who works there' and her insurance salesman father. What independent confirmation is there of this?

Brandon –What’s this, “The Democrats admit they don’t like it so don’t make it sound like they do.” Nothing remotely close to those thoughts in my post. Geez!?!

Bark about it all you want. Health care legislation passed in a Congress that was duly elected by the people of this country. You'll just have to "suffer", I guess.

As a healthcare provider, I can tell you that the pts will be the ones that suffer.

Whopppeedud #2.10

you teach....guess that explains alot of things...

what do I do besides spit sarcasm.......actually very little.

you know how it is with us libs....we just be sittin on the porch everyday waitin for the govt mens to be dropping off our checks...as long as they be comin regular ....we just be sittin and singin and singin and sittin.

just a hopin we be hearin the word of the conservative mens tellin us how we to can be good mericans if we follow their word..

All of you whiners about this 1099 requirement a bunch of douche-bag babies. For starters, I own two small businesses and have 24 people on payroll between the two. Anytime a service contractor provides me a service, like deep cleaning my kitchen every month or fixing a radiator or providing security services after-hours, I am duty bound by law to report a 1099 to the IRS indicating the amounts I paid those contractors. Why? So the contractors can be held responsible for paying the taxes they are required to pay, by law, on their income. Most contractors try to deal in cash, to hide their income and thus shirk their legal responsibility to pay taxes. If you are a service contractor and you are not reporting all of your income in order to avoid taxes then, you deserve to go to jail or pay huge fines. Period. Living in this Country isn't free; driving on interstates, bridges and tunnels isn't free; sending your children to public school isn't free; having access to police, fire, public libraries and many other services you take for granted aren't free. Pay your taxes and stop the crying. Secondly, the small businesses are supposed to be sending in those 1099's TODAY...BY LAW! This is simply an enforcement mechanism that kicks in at $600. And if you own a business and complain about the paperwork this creates - then again, you're a stupid douche-bag who doesn't deserve to own a business. Every heard of Quickbooks nimrods? There's a little button called 1099 reports! Once you setup your Vendor in Quickbooks (or any other accounting software), flag them as a 1099 vendor, you can then run a report on any payable vouchers paid by you during a period of time and then it will automatically fill out the 1099 form for you. That's it!!! Wake up and stop being a bunch of puswah's!

John, want more proof? What do you want? Forget it, and here is why, because 2 more liberals going to turn to the right and vote Obama out in 2012, you will have your proof then!

What is this? "As someone who was at the Conservative Values Summit" There is a summit? Great I missed it!! Uncle Tedd did not tell me about it!! Tedd is out hunting, so maybe that is why I missed it! Next time I'm in Michigan, at the farm, I will let Uncle Tedd know about it! Maybe the 3 of us could go together, but you got to promise to keep your big liberal mouth shut! So where and when??

Tedd and winter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauk7Ub_JGQ&feature=related

Tedd and food, love reminding him of this! Chew, then talk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9BtMOeJR9Q

Hey, Johnny G. If you want to live in a government free society or as you prefer to call it

Show me where I called it that? Like most liberals, you make stuff up and attribute it to others. I'm not the one who should move out, though, because I cherish the liberty foundations of this country. Maybe you should move on since there are lots of socialist backwater countries in the world you can live without ruining ours with the same.

For those of you spouting off about business reporting record profits, you'd better do a little research about the profile of business in America. Most businesses aren't reporting quarterly profits because they are privately held and considerably smaller than the publicly held corporations that are required to disclose on a quarterly basis. Even those large corporations are reporting relatively flat revenues and are achieving record profits through cost savings. Many do this because they know their stock prices will take major hits if they report reduced profits so they do whatever it takes to make sure their profit inches up each quarter if possible. The businesses that are really hurting, however, are the much smaller, privately held companies that mostly do business on a local and regional basis. These are the companies that are especially vulnerable and are coping with the massive downside risk inflicted on the economy by this administration and congress. This is definitely a small business recession although the job losses run the gamut.

Government is the only thing standing between you and Enron. Think about it. Do you really think the private industry gives a crap about your welfare?

Government didn't prevent Enron. Government didn't prevent Madoff. Government didn't prevent...

"First, we know that we will be charged $625.00 next year for my wife medication, now we pay $100.00 this is to pay for Obama dream crushing health care bill!! But today I was told that my co-pay for the kids’ medication went up to 100.00, it was 60.00 the reason is to start paying for the new health care bill that we are being forced to take part in."

I'm sorry you are experiencing this, but someone has sold you a bill of goods. This hike in your drug prices and your copays is not due to HCR as most of the law has not even taken effect yet. Unfortunately, some insurance companies have tried to raise their rates and blame HCR. See here: http://factcheck.org/2010/11/the-truth-about-health-insurance-premiums/

In fact, one of the provisions of the law is that insurers must spend 80% of the premium money they collect on actual health care costs for insured. If they don't, they must refund the money.

All I'm convinced of is democrats want socialism, not matter the effect (destruction) on America and Republicans do not.

And the same goes for the GOP. They just try to use other terms for what they are doing. Corporate welfare IS socialism just as much as individual welfare. Subsidies to rich oil/gas producers, etc. is corporate socialism. That form of socialism is more destructive on America than the other form of socialism.

I am personally against all forms of government subsidies for corporations, farms, unions, individuals, whatever. The corporatists and unions in bed with the government have been very ruinous of this country.

"We tried the Unions bussed their employees to the polls, straight from the Casino's. Plus when you went in Reids name was already checked, you had to uncheck it. Oh did I metion the Unions suprvised the polling places SEIU was in charge in NV."

And your point is....?

people who are anti-union are fascists.

Some of them are even proud of it. They are the same people who were republicans in the 30's (like Prescott Bush), telling us all how great Hitler and Mussolini were because of how they dealt with the unions. And how they dealt with the unions was, they sent soldiers to bayonet them. Which is exactly what the GOP would love to do here. At least back then they didn't try to hide it. These are the same types who attempted to oust President Roosevelt in a military coup, and were only thwarted by the great American hero Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC, who loved America more than he hated Democrats (even Roosevelt), which sets him apart from most Republicans, especially modern ones. Well, that and the fact that he actually served in the military sets him apart from most modern Republicans, but you know what I mean. And if you don't, what I mean is, GOP fascists are bad for America, just like they've always been.

STexans-

Simple idea, for a simpleton. No wonder the GOP depends on you to keep voting em in. You're precisely the tool who would vote for a bumper sticker slogan.

Good dog, good dog.

B Dune - Thx 4 Ur last entry. I can rest my case on it. If U have that much time 2 leave that much gribble, Ur wasting more than Newsvine space and our time.

Enron got away with what they did because the government looked the other way. That's what will happen with regularity if you get 'government off your backs'.

Enron got away with what they did because the government looked the other way. That's what will happen with regularity if you get 'government off your backs'.

Interesting contradictory statement. My interpretation of what you just said is that government oversight was a failure with Enron, so efforts to reduce government oversight will cause more Enrons. Um.....weird.

By the way, he gulf oil spill was a terrific example of relying on the government for oversight instead of the free market. The Interior Department regulators got all cozy with the oil rig guys and were rubber stamping their engineering changes without much of a thought. So let's double down on that! ;-)

Did you say that three weeks ago when you voted in a bunch of lying pond-scum hypocrits?

Lrry,

How do you know so soon how many people don't like it? ok, since we make our own numbers up, my numbers say that 89.56% of the people LOVE it. 10% undecided.

Lrry - must be the 59 million uninsured americans who don't want it. You don't have a clue what you are saying. Check the real facts.

The "lame duck" Congress decided this. The newly elected reps and senators do not take office until January. I'm not sure the additional paperwork will add that much overhead. I'm sure there are programs that will generate the form based on a wizard.

The additional paperwork is meant to track more income for fair taxation. Is it a bad thing for everyone to fairly disclose their income?

And the only way we will ever "clean house" will take six years minimum to do it as well as passing the two constitutional amendments that the Popular Amendment movement is petitioning for. Go to www.faircampaignreform.us for more information on the two amendments: election/campaign finance reform and term limits.

I've studied (and taught) accounting. What exactly is the IRS supposed to check the vendors records against - or are they just supposed to take the vendors at their word?

I suppose you take your bank's word for how much money you have in your account and, you'd be willing to take the IRS's word for how much you should be paying in taxes?

Vendors = People that sells material to contractors. Read the post.

Someone that actually understands WHAT this law was designed to do. AnDdalso WHY business is so against it's implementation of it, another republicrap smoke screen designed to stupefy the public again, they are getting good at it. YOU CAN FOOL SOME SOMETIME, BUT NOT ALL.

Not only that but paying under the table will be verbotem! Hurrah can't hire illegals for below minimum wage, can't doctor the books or as we used to say cook them. Now go after the big c ombine farmers who get subsidies and have put our small farmers out of business, yeah change has come - middle America has got to come back or we will be a third world country!

Vendors can be both big and small (single individuals) just as the "contractor" businesses. As a general manager of a small business (owner, myself, and two part-time employees), I know that this entails both for us. Our suppliers (vendors) are mostly big companies and this is a way for the IRS to verify that those vendors are filing all of their income as well as the "independent contractors" that we might utilize. When I operated my ad agency/publishing business, I had both also and I was the sole employee of that business. I was both a vendor and a "contractor." The problem then was that the IRS never really enforced the law on the 1099's. They are now starting to do this, and this amendment in the "HRC" (as everyone insists on calling the bill) simply reinforces that IRS requirement. We have been getting forms to complete from all of our major customers for the past two years at the business I manage. Like my own business, this one is both a vendor and a customer, as are most businesses. We are a wholesale/retail custom apparel printer. We buy from vendors and we are a vendor to our custom print customers (individuals, government agencies, non-profits, and businesses.) Thus, we get 1099's and have to file 1099's.

There is a simple answer to your problem - start a buisness. It's just as great as you claim!

charleyb

People don't start businesses to provide jobs for idiots like you, we risk our money to make a profit and provide for our families, and if we can't do it all ourselves, we hire people to provide a service. Start your own business, take a risk with your own money, and I'll bet you'll feel different about government intervention.

Your decision to start a business was for YOUR gratification, not anybody or anything else. Your idea to STAY in business was for your gratification AND your family. Your desire to have more is O K, your desire to make more is the only reason you hired anyone. Do not try to insult my intelligence with your "rational excuses". We know what, why, and how you succeeded or failed, YOUR DRIVE. That does not make you any better than some bag lady on the street. Government is to protect everyone from thieves, and some businesses are just that,THIEVES!

CharlyB, I'm with you !! Same here. I am SICK and TIRED of getting a plumber, a carpenter , and mason, a car mechanic, etc etc and getting 2 price quotes. The CASH price and the CREDIT CARD price. Gee, why is that ?? Hmmm, I'm sure there's a reason, I just can't think of it. Maybe the 20% CASH DISCOUNT has something to do with the 2% fee VISA charges. No wait. That doesn't account for the other 18% of the discount. Hmmmm, could it be TAXES ???? You know, half these people INHERITED DADDY's business and for some reason, they think they have some GOD GIVEN right to stay rich at all costs and not pay taxes. Sorry bro, that ain't the way it goes. FINALLY, the IRS has joined the NFL to catch tax cheats. NFL = NOT FOR LONG, cheaters. The party's over. Join the rest of Team America. Stop clamoring for WARS and then REFUSE to FUND them. You guys are the same people cheering for DUBYA, and, just like the people in college who would go to a house party with free beer, and the minute they started passing the hat to get another keg, all of a sudden, "oh, I have an exam to study for tomorrow, I gotta go". These clowns are the same way. Cheering for war, and now that OBAMA is passing the hat around to pay for it, now they have to go home and study for an "exam". Yeah right. HYPOCRITES. PS, I DO in fact own my own business and I feel privileged paying taxes, you know, I SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

marco- or better yet dumbarco, who do you think originally proposed this in the last admin? You are so bent on critizing this admin you don't even have any facts. The FACTS ARE: Bush led us to ruin with the war and gifts to the rich in tax breaks. Last gesture was to bailout his buddies with TARP which will cost us billions. Last - he has the deaths of thousands of young men on his head from this unpaid for war.

And you think this admin is dumb. You obviously supported the repubs and so I'd say we've got YOU to thank for this mess.

ones thing is for sure Marco......we are all certain you are an expert in the field of "wet dreams"!

Jessie....Bush's TARP were loans since paid back with interest. Obama likes to take credit for that little tidbit. Obama's stimulus was given freely with no oversight. Millions went to save the endangered fly in California. Give me a break.

This "rich" person writing this making $50k a year saved a lot money with Bush's tax breaks and child tax credits. So dont tell me this only helped the rich. If you want to pay more taxes, you may do so. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. I am wondering if its you that withholds the facts?

Marco - I expect from you a level of courtesy when addressing my and your President - if you choose to use your stupid slang than get off this link and go to a local red-nec k bar sorry I regressed to your level. But you get my drift either contribute or shut up name calling does not solve problems!

Most of these loans were not paid back yet, BECAUSE there was no stipulations of when and how to pay this money back. Goldman Saks "borrowed" over 45 BILLION and they repaid it in almost no time. THEY DIDN'T NEED IT, THEY USED IT TO BUY THEIR COMPETITION AND GIVE MILLIONS IN BONUSES. Republicrap ways of helping the economy. Give to the rich and screw the poor! PRESIDENT OBAMA takes credit for his accomplishments, not some third rate political idiot. I say let the tax cuts lapse until all our debt is paid. Republicraps will not want to do that either, they do not want to fix THEIR mess, that is their strategy, keep everyone so scared and poor that they will work for nothing, just to survive. Keep your attitude all the way to the unemployment line, and while there remember YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF.

Hey Marco

I think Barbara Adams Jackson called you out.......going to answer her or are you working on yet another "wet dream"?

Yeah, you most definitely keep electing idiots. That's why all those republican hypocrits were elected by fools like you.

AZchd #8.3

hey - are you one of the rich bagger/conservatives here in AZ who go out and protest that the border isn't safe enough...you want all the illegals gone...

then on Monday morning drive over to the Home Depot put 5-6 illegals in the back of your truck to do your lawn work?

or do you just have the illegals you hire at the plant come over on Saturday to do the lawn work?

He's not really from AZ. All the Tea Baggers just pretend to be in AZ to fake outrage at the death of that poor old rancher that the Minute Men killed and are trying to pin on an "illegal alien drug smuggler" (whatever the hell that is).

I live in Phoenix. The fact you have no idea what an illegal alien smuggler is, or coyote for short, shows how ignorant you are. And I am not rich. How is a household income of $50k rich? I get by and am happy, but rich? Give me a break.

Maybe you should read before you post. Then you'd only look like an azz half the time, instead of all.

Now I'll repeat the question, just for you, m'kay, Mr. Special?

What is an "illegal alien drug smuggler", which is what the Minute Men and their accessory-after-the-fact tea bagger friends claim murdered Rob Krentz? Was it an illegal alien, or a drug smuggler? Get the story straight. This is why only tea bagger cons were intrigued by this story. Everyone else saw that it was full of holes from the get-go.

I certainly hope you have enough money to buy your own health insurance and don't use any form of insurance paid for with tax monies (Medicare, Medicaid, VA, military, federal or state employees, or employer insurance that receives government subsidies). If you do, you're a first rate cheat.

Right. When we paid our own health insurance, it was around $1000 a month. When we switched over to my wife's employer insurance, it went down to around $300 a month.

The Republicans want to end employer provided insurance. Do you really advocate paying $1000 a month yourself with like a $5000 deductible? Seriously? You should see the rates jump if you have a pre-existing condition, too.

Why should we let a 'bagger vote?

The reason your insurance went from $1000 per month to $300 per month is because your employer was paying the other $700 per month. It is actually probably a lot more because you don't seem to have a large deductible any longer. Think of what your spouse's employer is paying as wages for your wife.

Bookem' Danno

Sorry, but most often that is not the case. Employer provided insurance often benefits through negotiations revolving around the size of the employee pool involved. Similar situation to the considerable breaks given to insurers by hospitals that far undercut the rates given to private payors.

And employers get to write that off.

Imagine the shock to the 'baggers if the Republicans succeed in killing off employer provided health insurance and end up having to pay over half their monthly paychecks on health insurance alone. No brains.

Since the cost of employing a person will go down, employee pay rates will be adjusted upwards if this should ever happen.

How is small business "suffering" when filling out a 1099 is no different than filling out a W-2 for an employee ? I used to be an Independent Contractor for numerous companies. Any company that paid me over $600 was already REQUIRED BY LAW to file a 1099. Doesn't make any difference if it's for goods or services. I provided a service. Without Employers and Businesses purchasing goods/services filing these forms IC's can virtually bypass the IRS by not claiming any of the income and no one is the wiser. Obama is just ENFORCING a law that ALREADY EXISTS !!! This is nothing more than LOST REVENUE that will now be able to pay towards the cost of Healthcare. And the problem with making people PAY THEIR SHARE OF TAXES ALL EARNED IMCOME is what exactly ????

There is absolutely NO burden or "suffering" on the business person other than filing some damned paperwork. God forbid. That's what they have accountants for.

I believe that most small businesses are above that $250,000 threshold that will get hit with the tax under Obama's plan. If you are so adamant for protecting small businesses, raise it to at least $1 million and we'll talk. Under $250,000 business is no more than maybe a handful of employees.

AZChzhd - if you are talking about the fruit fly then you are as stupid as Sister Sarah - look it up - I'm not here to teach you you obviously have a computer look up fruit fly and see why we are interested - I refrain from saying or calling you a name, however are you against research to benefit mankind?

AZchd

"raise it to a million and we'll talk"......you speak for only yourself....."we'll talk".....guess it would be a stretch to assume you are a bagger/conservative, eh? one speaks and you think you speak for everyone!

btw - thanks for letting us know you make alot of money.......it sends a chill up all of our spines!

bdune...why are you such an ass?

Barbara...the what? I was talking about the $250k threshold not being high enough for small businesses. I dont know what got your undies in a knot.

Actually, AZChzhd, the definition of "small" business needs to be changed. A business earning over $250K per year isn't really a small business, is it? Just because it might only be owned by one or two people does not make it a small business....Koch Brothers are just one example of that.

AZchd

"b dune - why are you such an azz"...

well AZ - someone has to let you rich conservatives who feel that you are somehow "entitled" to let the rest of know what we should think...know yours isn't the only "world" out there.

your phrase "we'll talk"....who is the we? you? you and your little coffee klatch that meets after getting in nine before having 10:00 a.m. lattes? Or did the "we'll" mean you would use your powers to talk to the bagger/conservatives in Congress to let them know they should chat?

I'm the azz? Was there any reason any of us needed to know you saved $50,000 in taxes? Besides the fact of course you wanted us to know your status and somehow your input would have a greater effect.

Listen AZ - being called an azz by you was not only the highlight of my day....but coming from you - also the best compliment. Thanks!

"I believe that most small businesses are above that $250,000 threshold that will get hit with the tax under Obama's plan. If you are so adamant for protecting small businesses, raise it to at least $1 million and we'll talk. Under $250,000 business is no more than maybe a handful of employees."

Small businesses have already gotten several tax breaks, under Obama.

Extending the tax breaks for people making $1m or more will not change the taxes for small businesses. It will just make the rich richer, without creating jobs.

Also, if taxes are related to job creation, then why were 22m jobs created during the Clinton administration, when taxes were the same as before the Bush tax cuts, why did Bush create only 1.1m jobs, even with the tax cuts?

bdune...I think you took what I said a bit too literally. My opinion of where a small business should begin at is every bit as valid as yours or anyone else who thinks $250k is a good small business threshold.

I am still perplexed where I said I saved $50,000 in taxes. I just said thats what our household income was and how the Bush tax cuts helped us out, not just the rich. I didnt say I SAVED $50,000 in taxes.

Actually, it doesn't matter what you think AZchild. SBA estimates that 95%-97% of 'small businesses', that is assets worth less than $8 million, would get the Obama tax cut.

It is interesting how you think that your opinion is somehow as relevant as real facts are. Why do you think you have such an issue with knowing your place? Are you so uppity because you're white, or rich, or white and rich?

The best part is, your own grandkids aren't fooled. And they'll re-elect Barry O and you'll probably suffer a stroke your blood pressure will go so high. Damn, that sounds like a happy ending to me.

Okay sounds good bro. Good luck on your sod business. With Obama at the helm you will need it.

Thanks for another opinion that doesn't really matter! You're great at dispensing those, huh? Especially over the interwebs anonymously! What character and bravery!!

You could talk and debate with your neighbors about it, if they hadn't all been evicted in forclosure, couldn't you? Good thing that your grandkids showed you how to use Newsvine, keeping the rest of us in fresh opinions like that last jewel. Better hurry and pop a viagra, almost time for Hannity and at $50K, you ain't got a pool boy like Rush.

Tell me, when you got that $200 Bush Tax Credit, how far did that go, after gas went to $6 a gallon? Do you remember? Like most dementia patients, you no doubt find it easier to remember what happened 45 years ago than to remember what happened five years ago. I'm not sure why that doesn't disqualify you from voting, driving, owning firearms, stuff like that, but apparently it doesn't. Good thing there aren't enough of you types to tip the scales in POTUS elections anymore.

billybob: have you not yet come into the 21st century and started to use a small business accounting program to do your bookkeeping? If you haven't, maybe it is time you did so. You just might find that you actually haver more time to do actual money making work. Not enough business to justify the few hundred dollars? then you aren't doing enough business were this provision would be of major impact to you.

Screw the Tea Party. They are a front for the corporate elite.

For you all that think owning your own buisness or being a GREEDY MONEY HUNGRY DOCTOR - make the investment required, then post a comment!

Another brainless rant from the empty-headed lunatic fringe.

Billybob

get a room with Russell.....you two can cry the night away on each others shoulders.

pretty simple Billy...if this addition of new paperwork is going to break you down and destroy your business....then you aren't doing all of the other paperwork you should be doing.

thus - you are the one who has created the problem in the first place!

Join your tea baggers, stop paying your tax's, use your "second amendment rights". I would give a little more of my hard earned money to see the likes of you IN PRISON, where you belong. A TAX PAYER FUNDED RECREATIONAL PARK MADE JUST FOR GULLIBLE LIKE YOU. After all you even started to believe your own lies and inadequacy's.

And it is NOT new paperwork. This has been the requirement for several years as noted above by myself and others.

Where in the constitution is health care identified as a right?

47% of Americans don't pay any federal taxes.

Health care is a privilege that we have a right to demand.

Life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, read that anywhere lately?

Health care is a privilege that we have a right to demand.

Demand? I hope you mean purchase. Or do you think it should be free?

A right, A RIGHT??? Boy your Constitution is different than mine.

We need no further example of how "Liberals" are destroying the fundamental view of the Founding Fathers that the best government is a small government.

Texas Liberal,

You're not serious, right? Nobody can be this pro government, pro welfare and pro stupid.

When these businesses pay those taxes they will have to pass the costs to the consumer! You and I will pay higher costs for the products and services as well as higher health insurance premiums. We lose, lose, lose thanks to the progressive (regressive) liberal Democrats!!

Medical care is not a right, because it is not something we ourselves possess, it is made, like all goods and services. It takes the hard work of countless individuals to bring it into being, good people who have the right to demand fair compensation for that effort. Slavery begins with one man thinking himself entitled to the produce of another's labors, and this is a thought you have clearly expressed here, TL.

Next, and you really need to understand this, everyone pays every tax, though often only indirectly through higher prices and scarcer goods. This class warfare B.S. serves only to distract people from this reality. Taxes on earned income limit growth, but taxes on what you call "passive" income, which is in reality investment income, actually consume and diminish the wealth of all, rich or poor.

Lastly, your last statement on taxes betrays a complete ignorance of what America stands for. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I can say with certainty that not only do I not want government to get its hands on any more of my money, I don't want them to have any more of anyone else's money either. Our country is founded on the idea that taxation without representation is tyranny. That I stand for small government, and the rights of all, makes me the true liberal (look this word up in the dictionary, it does not mean what you think it does) and patriot. You are not a liberal, my friend, you are a fascist.

Texas Liberal— you loiv ein a state with no income tax. Yu have no right to want to demand ANYTHING unless you are willing to pay for it. Your comments are null and void

Hey Jogger... why don't you jog your frigging brain and figure out that BUSINESSES aren't paying the taxes... the vendors/suppliers are and they rightfully SHOULD be reporting ALL of their EARNED INCOME to the IRS and paying their fair share of taxes.

DUNCE !

Tex

I have my pocket constitution in hand and I can't find the section that makes health care a right. You libs read the constitution and find abortions for all, free health care for illegals, and Miranda rights for terrorist, but you have trouble accepting the second amendment which clearly states the peoples right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

TEXAS LIBERAL: You want other people to pay for your healthcare, and if they don't they are declaring war on you. You sound like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum in the grocery store because Mommy won't buy you a lolly pop. Grow up. If you want something, buy it yourself, and don't look to others to provide for you. Or just cry, drop to the floor, and kick your feet. That might work to.

The beauty of America is that we the people can change the system. Most Americans want universal health care. And who cares if it is not in the constitution anyway? I don't. The constitution is not carved in stone. The Bill of Rights was added, and for good reasons. The semantic defense that "health care is not a right" just gives heartless people some dumb phrase to latch onto. It's not in the constitution to be allowed to deny a person medical treatment either.

Actually avoiding taxes is entirely legal. If you can organize your finances legally in such a way that you pay less taxes it is very much your right. Tax EVASION is illegal.

Health Care is a right

No it's not.

You have to pay for it, just like anything else.

You expect health care providers to work for nothing?

What do you do for work? I want what you produce for free!!!

I bet most whiners wanting freebies are lazy bums who suck up my taxes and are too lazy to work.

Time to put on your big boy underwear people!!

John, it's in the same place that building roads, ensuring that citizens can receive an education, providing tax breaks to businesses, and a host of other goods or services are provided for you and the rest of us.

"47% of Americans don't pay any federal taxes."

Nope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Thank you much. We are glad to hear some sense coming out of Texas.

Free market capitalism is good to a point, until it degenerates to nothing but exploitation and greed.

A society that wants to have any 'SOCIAL' concern, will have some degree of "SOCIALISM".. those words are not related by accident. Things that any civil society needs such as educational opportunities for all, libraries, schools, you know, streets that we drive and walk on, public utilities, HEALTH CARE, defense (military) .. basically the things we share that keep us functioning as a group... these things must be "SOCIALIZED" to some degree, because they are for the common good, so managed by the common good.

Many of the things in that little list (and many more that you all enjoy) are already socialized. How dumb.. how utterly delusional and simply childish do you have to be to miss this point??????

Yes, I want socialized medicine as well, and I damn well voted for it and will again. I do not want to be the only developed nation with no medical care. It is simply shameful and stupid. You folks who don't even know how to wear shoes find that sister, and mother are the same person, I can forgive you. Bu the rest of you ignoramuses, just need to get a damn education or disavow yourselves from any and all political participation.

How about instead of nearly half of our budget going toward the DoD we divert some money to give universal coverage a try?

I wish we controlled where our tax money was allocated.

Lie. Half our budget doesn't go toward DoD unless you consider about $700 billion of a $3.5 trillion budget to be half.

Hot damn, I didn't even know Texas had Liberals. Way to speak the truth.

T exas Liberal..says.. If these Republicans would quit trying to evade paying their taxes all the time -></p>

Why would you use" just Republicans" in your statement. Other than you are far to the LEFT''
and other than you have "Tunnel Vision whenever you disagree with a liberal promoted artical.
I guess Charles Rangle is a Republican?"NOT" More than Half of Obama's choices for commitees in Washington have long records of "TAX EVASION"..Open your eyes and read the facts maybe then you would stop your ficticious posts....................But your posts do fit the norm on the MSNBC website..

Texas Lib,

I don't disagree with your general sentiment about healthcare... it is something more than a commodity, and should be treated accordingly. But you are absolutely dead wrong about taxes. We (the United States) have one of the most steeply progressive tax systems in the world. Meaning, the highest earning Americans pay vastly more taxes than middle and lower earning Americans. The top 10% of earners pay roughly 90% of the income tax collected by the government in this country. The progressiveness is especially steep when one considers that the lower and middle class (and I am among them) receive the overwhelming majority of benefits from federal spending of tax revenue. Your post made it seem like the highest earners in this country are skating by on the taxes of the lower and middle class. If that's what you meant, you're dead wrong.

Well, for one you live in the wrong state to be a liberal. Second there are many nice countries that have socialized medicine. You should pick one and move there!

Third your an idiot! There are no guarantees in life. Your born and you die. Those are the only guarantees.

I don't know of very many republican tax evaders. But I sure list a number of democratic tax evaders.

Tim Geuthner a.k.a. Tax Cheat Timmy

Tom Daschle

Charlie Rangle

Maxine Waters

Bill and Hillary Clinton - Remember White water. Didn't think so...

BillyBob,

Why do you guys always start and stop at "......the right of the people.........and shall not be infringed....". Like that's the WHOLE sentence. Isn't in a WELL REGULATED MILITIA in there...........somewhere...........you know, like........PRECEDING infringed ??? And Besides, no where in the constitution does it talk about, ....shall not be infringed......, EXCEPT for convicts and felons. I mean, do you want violent felons to ALSO have the right to keep and bear arms ?? Because it's not in the constitution that says they can't. Just curious. Just curious how you guys cherry pick only the parts you want. Like when Dubya cherry picked the intelligence to start a TRILLION DOLLAR war that now YOU GUYS don't want to PAY FOR.

@Joe: 'there are many nice countries that have socialized medicine. You should pick one and move there'

why is it that you people assume that those of us who understand the benefits of living in a civilized country must therefore forfeit our *right* to remain in this one? the Founding Fathers that you so often quote designed (in what they all admitted at the time was an experiment) to be able to change to suit the needs of the people. all of the people, as determined by voting. the majority of people wanted, and still want, access to affordable health care. and given the fact that so very, very many tea partiers are either on Medicare and Social Security, or counting eagerly the days and hours until they qualify for said SOCIAL programs, this holds true no matter what your party.

I was born here, I work and pay taxes here, and I want my tax money to go toward what I want it to go toward- and health care is one of the things I want. in America. my country too. deal with it. I don't see you volunteering to move to some other low-tax, low-public services, heavy-military involvement country, do I? if I have to live with your war-culture, you have to live with my public service culture. welcome to the real America

There you go! A liberal ignorant! The US has a graduated tax code -- The more you make the higher the rate of taxation. Ignorance and "It's my right to get your stuff" goes together. Get educated, get a job, get your own health care like we do!

Allie 22--Well said. That is all.

Tex Lib,

Leeches like you, who think you are entitled to health care (probably so you can get your drug fix on the backs of us tax payers) are ruining our country. If you think health care is a right, then you prove the validity of the statement "liberalism is a mental disorder."

Health care may be a right but I reserve the right to NOT pay for anyone else's but MINE.

Health care is not a right. Health care is a service provided by doctors, nurses and other health care professionals, and you don't have a "right" to their time or service. You don't have a right to walk in a docotr's office and demand treatment, anymore than you can walk in to a store and demand a Twinkie, or take your car to a garage and demand they fix it because you have a right to a car(which you don't, by the way)

.

Texas Liberal, I pay taxes as I should, as everyone should, but listen...

HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT, it is an entitlement program we as a country cannot afford. Rather than use that 16 billion towards another entitlement, right-infringing, ponzai scheme, they should apply to the deficit. THE HEALTHCARE PACKAGE WILL NOT WORK.

If you wish socialized medicine, I suggest you, and all others who share your opinion, get out of the United States. Your attitude towards socialism is a direct slap in the face to our Constitution and to every man, woman and child who've died in the fight for freedom since the Revolution.

Your kind is not wanted or needed. What kind is that? Those who won't take responsibility for their own lives or expect others to.

Preemptive strike: Yes, I've been on hard times, including homelessness, and I have NEVER taken part in welfare, unemployment or any other kind of socialist program. Why? Because I am RESPONSIBLE for ME. I don't expect anyone else to take care of me. I am proud. I am independent, and I am wholly, one hundred percent...

AMERICAN.

Now, get the hell out of my country.

Why should free medical care be a US citizen's right? American's don't have a right to free food and humans can not live two weeks without food. American's do not have a right to free shelter. You will die a lot faster without protection from the elements than if you never receive health care. So if food and shelter are not rights why should health care be a right.

Your argument that taxes strongly favor the rich is rediculous. Roughly 50% of all American's pay no federal income tax and many of those get more money back from the Federal government than they pay in. Almost none of those American's are rich. I would love to see a flat tax with no deductions allowed for anything that would be applied to any income you earned whether from employement or passive income. However, it would be those 50% of American's that are not paying income tax now that would feel the brunt of that change.

So "AMERICAN" my advice to you is get a clue.

"Where in the constitution is health care identified as a right?"

There are many "rights" that are not spelled out, in the Constitution.

It is up to the Supreme Court to determine if the health care act, as currently written, is constitutional.

Until that happens, all we have, on both sides, are merely opinions.

So, why don't we just drop the "health care act is not constitutional" rhetoric, since your or my opinion is not going to sway the court one way or another?

It was a very simple question that you can't seem to answer. Let me ask you a different way. Since the powers of the U.S. goverment are derived solely from the constitution, from where in the constitution does the federal government derive the power to compel me to engage in a long term contract with another private party and with terms stipulated by the government? Please cite the article and section. I'm not asking rhetorically.

The requirement to buy insurance was a bad compromise. Socialized medicine now. Insurance companies take 20% off the top of health care - what service do they provide other than telling my doctor what treatments I can't have?

Socialized medicine now.

Same question, different context. From where in the constitution does the federal government derive the power to implement a national health care system? And if one is implemented, do you think that a bureaucrat isn't going to tell you what treatments you can't have? Look at the statements of Dr. Berwick who now runs CMS about "containing health care costs" and let me know what you think.

http://www.biotechnologyhealthcare.com/journal/fulltext/6/2/BH0602035.pdf

whynot-2284594 said...
American's don't have a right to free food and humans can not live two weeks without food. American's do not have a right to free shelter. You will die a lot faster without protection from the elements than if you never receive health care. So if food and shelter are not rights why should health care be a right.

Who the hell is talking about free food? And you're talking that kids can live for two weeks without food? Where the hell is your compassion? And where are people who're trying to support their kids supposed to get their money? We gave China and other third world countries our jobs long ago. These people are going to turn to crime just to get a bite to eat. And there's always dealing drugs... Are you condoning this behavior?

What planet did you come from? But thanks for the laugh! :-) That's a good one!

Health Care is not a right it is a service. You have to pay someone for it. Doctors don't work for free. You want the best health care profesionals possible, well your going to have to pay for it. If you socialize health care doctors won't make as much and the smart young people that choose to be doctors for the money will become lawyers instead.

"the smart young people that choose to be doctors for the money will become lawyers instead."

I think you mean the mercenary young people..... And I certainly hope what you predict comes true. Most of the physicians I know are not in it for the money, but the few who are only concerned with their bottom line definitely need to choose another profession.

Lie. Half our budget doesn't go toward DoD unless you consider about $700 billion of a $3.5 trillion budget to be half.

Sorry John Galt, slip of the tongue, I meant half of discretionary budget. Also, if you factor in the cost of the wars through appropriations (not technically parts of the budget) we spend MORE than half of the discretionary budget.

I think you mean the mercenary young people

When we come down to the point where profit motive is hated and people who wish to earn a decent living are considered mercenaries, then something is horribly wrong. What the heck is wrong with you DrDr?

You are correct! The care of your Health is your right. You have the right to choose to be healthy or unhealthy. You have the right to sit on the couch and get fat or get up and exercise. What you do not have the right to do is tax me more to pay for your unhealthy choices.

This is not health care and it has not been health care for decades. This is "sick car". This is reactive here is a prescription take a pill once it is to late care.

The problem is American's not the system. Our hospitals are great and provide great care. We have excellent doctors and nurses. We have a country full of people that want the easy way out all the time. American's want to live unhealthy and expect the system to fix all the bad things they do to them selves.

So here is an idea America....go buy a cook book, by some cooking utensils and some pots and pans. Go to the store and buy some raw ingredients and if you really want to do it right buy organic. Go home and cook it is simple just follow the instructions in the cook book. When you are done instead of watching the Simpson's or CSI or Desperate House Wives go exercise. Do this for 21 days to form a habit. In 6 months you will not need health care or a PCP. Instead you will only need major medical for your broken bone, because you will now be healthy enough to actually do an activity where you will break your bone.

Wake up America the USDA and the FDA have been allowing us to eat poison. Genetically engineered food, hormones, preservatives and artificially created garbage. And now they are going to manage our health care.

Your PCP should demand that you see them once every 90 days. Not to change your prescription or to do a physical. To simply do a nutritional consultation and go over your fitness plan. Now that you could call health care, because someone would actually care about your health.

Do no tell me it is your right and sure as hell do not tax me because you can not take control of your poor eating habits and lack of exercise.

No John, I don't believe that a"profit motive is hated and people who wish to earn a decent living are considered mercenaries." YOU said that those who were in medicine FOR THE MONEY (mercenary reasons, in other words) would switch to the law if they couldn't make as much money in medicine. And I think we're talking about more than just a "decent living" here.

How would you justify calling it a right, where is that defined anywhere?

Also not all people who want to keep there money are rich, a salary of 50,000 pays 10% of that to the federal government-5000, and 170,000 pays 17,000, after that it goes up. 5000 has some pretty good financial potential, maybe even more if you can invest intelligently now. The government has not invested intelligently lately. Wars that don't fix the problem and take time and lives, are the reason why we aren't competing globally, we are investing in things with no return. We are taking care of ourselves, not our children. Our focus as a nation is policing the world, not competing globally and due to that our children are not being prepared for our future challenges. If we were engaging terrorism intelligently and not regulating drugs that are less dangerous than what we due on thanksgiving as a family, I would put some money on the government without a peep. As far as being liberal, I'm a hungry jazz musician, and I think the right is short sided when they try to make decisions for people that are nobody else's business, but I also think that of the left. Roads great, national transportation even better- planes aren't the best option these days, but blowing things up in places where the enemy is no longer standing with money that I could be putting into a college fund, what gives anyone that right. By the way, health care- a right? No, but a worthwhile investment of any country running itself. Just wish someone else is running it.

No John, I don't believe that a"profit motive is hated and people who wish to earn a decent living are considered mercenaries." YOU said that those who were in medicine FOR THE MONEY (mercenary reasons, in other words) would switch to the law if they couldn't make as much money in medicine. And I think we're talking about more than just a "decent living" here.

There is nothing wrong with trying to make as much of your limited resource as you can. I don't presume to define "decent" for anyone else but myself, and I admire someone who can choose to do whatever they wish to better their standard of living. If you don't like it or take it on yourself to define what is the right amount for someone else to earn, your are simply jealous.

Well, not denying some of the things you said, but look at some other facts. My elderly parents both had had open heart and God Bless the USA for the fact that the system has provided for them, but recently we were told that in January they MUST purchase a MEDICARE Supplement at $110 per each check that would allow the MEDICAID to continue giving the same coverage. My mother is on an atrocious amount of medicine - all legit - and the MEDICARE + MEDICAID will continue to take care of it. Maybe you say, well that is fair. The $220 out of their check will be more than compensated, granted, but you may not realize that combined they receive $1,450 / month. Now with $220 out of the check - well it is not hard to fathom that $1,200 does not go a long way these days. We, as children, have gladly filled in gaps and now we must strive to dig deeper to fill in a greater gap while trying to get our children on their feet via college, their young children, hard to find jobs, inadequate or non-existent health care and forget about buying a home for my son, nieces, and nephews.

Again, the insurance industry and the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry have all bilked America, but I still am not sure that allowing the U.S. government the right to demand this level of Health Care overall was the right choice. Look at them, they cannot balance the biggest budget in the world so how do they figure they have all the answers. Hey Obama, what good changes happened in debt-ridden Chicago while you and your cronies were watching over it with your all-seeing Alinsky eye. Nothing except it got worse and worse and may disintegrate into a Mad-Max-Chicago-Gangland before it implodes. Ok, I could go on, but that is enough.

federal workers like the US Army, Navy, Airforce, FBI, CIA, Social Sec ADM, Medicare, Air Traffic Controllers, etc??? Like them?

Why didn't you mention your STATE workers, like State Troopers, DMV, DOT, etc. like them fired?

How about city workers, county workers, like teachers, cops, etc.

BEST PLACE TO START WOULD BE THE TRILLION THAT IS for TAX CUTS FOR RICH.

No, the paper pushers and all the dead weight. And the thousands hired to promote Obamacare.

The federal government employed 2,198,100 in October, excluding the military and postal service, up 137,300 (or 6.6%) from 2,060,9800 when Obama took office, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports.

Federal workers earned an average of $81,258, plus $41,791 in benefits in 2009, for total compensation of $123,049, reports the Commerce Department. Federal compensation has grown 35.8% faster than the inflation rate since 2000 while private compensation grew 8.8% to an average of $61,051 in compensation.

We could start with the IRS workers.

namnut

you got the right idea......get rid of all the federal employees...

of course now that they are not working we won't need the banks they bank at, stores they shop at, gas stations they buy gas at, hospitals they used to go to, barbers they used to go to, hair salons, car makers, roofers to repair their homes....besides all the fed employees being let go...we could get rid of all these other employees as well!

if we could just get rid of these Federal Employees and the dollars they put into the economy each day.....things would be perfect!

you've got a good idea there namnut on getting the economy back on its feet!....take away as much spendable income out of the economy as possible!

But if these were private employee's instead of government employees we wouldn't have to fund the waste of the federal government. They could have their jobs, their benifits, their retirement and still be a part of the support team - those that pay the government employees salaries.

Russell

nice spin there buddy....but that is not what "namnut" said...

he said "lets lay off 500,000 federal employees for 20 years"....or roughly 50 Billion in spendable income each year.

you are not his sock puppet - why not let him defend his own stupid azz comment?

TAX CUTS FOR RICH

Please define 'rich'.

My guess of your definition: "people who make more than me".

"Russell

nice spin there buddy....but that is not what "namnut" said...

he said "lets lay off 500,000 federal employees for 20 years"....or roughly 50 Billion in spendable income each year.

you are not his sock puppet - why not let him defend his own stupid azz comment?"

And, if we get rid of the tax cuts for the rich, we could save another $70B per year.

But since the government employees actually contribute to the economy, why not just keep the federal employees and keep the $70B of tax revenue, when the tax rates for the rich revert to what they were under Clinton?

"Please define 'rich'.

My guess of your definition: "people who make more than me"."

I would say that being "rich" means that you make more money than about 97 or 98 percent of the rest of the population.

At the height of my career, I made about $75K per year. I think I could live quite comfortably on $250K or more per year, even taking into account those increased taxes. As an individual, I would not be getting the additional tax breaks that have been afforded by Obama to small businesses, but I can live with that.

Ah, so "rich" is defined uniformly for the nation based on what PuddleDuck speculates he could comfortably live on using the high point of his career as reference. Got it. ;-)

But, even Warren Buffett is concerned that he pays a lower % of his income than his chauffeur. Hmmmm?

Then why doesn't Warren Buffett put his money where his mouth is and give the government what he feels is the right amount? The government does accept donations. They're not tax deductible, because the government is not considered a charity, but they do accept donations.

The thing is, you liberals hold up the examples like Warren Buffett, but until he willingly gives up the percentage of his income that he considers 'fair' instead of sheltering every dime he can, he's just another two-faced liberal that thinks he's better than everyone else.

Then Warren Buffett is always free to write an additional check to the IRS in the amount that will satisfy his "conscience".

@Elmer1

It is an interesting figure, isn't it? What most people don't realise is that it is spread thoughout the income spectrum. To some degree it is effected by the number of write offs one can come up with (real or imagined) as well as the ability to defer income or loss from one year to the next. Of course it is much more complex than that overall. I'll date myself a little bit here, but in one such instance years ago, there was quite a bit of uproar when it came to light that one of my favorite actors, John Wayne, hadn't paid taxes in a number of years. Have a pleasant evening.

Plus, almost half of the members of Congress (261 our of 535) are multi-millionaires. They pass tax cuts that are going to benefit their wealth and the wealth of the rest of their multi-millionaire friends. And most of the rest of them are looking for ways to write off their poor management of their money when they personally spend beyond their means. Look up the data on the "poorest" members of Congress. All members are required to file reports on their income every year. That is what got Rangel in trouble. His reports weren't prepared accurately by his accountants and he signed off on them without really studying them first.

Of course this is what they all do on all of the legislation too. Their staff members do a lot of the writing of the bills and give them a synopsis of what they put into them, hehe. Hell, half of the time, the members don't even know what the measure is that they are casting a vote for. (It isn't always just the bill they are cast a vote for. It may be such a complex wording of action to take action on an action to take action on another action, ad infinitum that they can't even begin to understand it.)

Hum, Social Security - a good thing. Yes, it give big brother a pool to pull our hard earned dollars from. If this Social Security is so GREAT, why don't our, oops, your elected leaders participate?

And who moved it from a secure account to the pool?

Bob...I believe the civil rights movement was born by Republicans. MLK was a Republican for instance. The Democrats were the party of KKK. Look no further than the late Robert Byrd, the former KKK leader.

dragonmaster...We can all thank the Democrat, Lyndon Johnson, for that move.

ridiculous. The current GOP has nothing to do with the former Republicans. Also, Byrd was a Republican for MOST of his career, then he just got sick of ya'll.

Whiners who have a "I deserve whatever I want" are ruining this nation.

"Ask not what your country can do for you..."

That's out of vogue today. Now, all the leftists 'expect' things that they want to be handed to them.

Get an education, get a job and shut up already!

Stop whining about your pitiful selves and do something for yourself, stop asking the rest of us to carry your lazy asses.

Social Security is ridiculous, Bob. The concept was simple in the beginning - help people retire by putting away a % of each paycheck. Then each retired person gets what he/she put in + a respectable interest. Great idea but a bad implementation by politicians bent on stealing from the SS trust fund.

1. No secure accounts = too much temptation for politicians to transfer funds to other government programs.

2. We have 401K and IRA options today where even the most conservative investor can earn much more than SS.

3. No detailed accounting like I get with a 401K or IRA. All I get with SS is a "projection" of what I will get paid when I retire. And that has been decreasing.

4. SS funds withheld from the current generation of workers are sent to current retirees. That is not an investment. It is a shell game and should be illegal.

5. I have no control over how my SS withholdings are invested. That should be a crime.

We have outgrown the neaderthal "retirement" program known as Social Security. How can this program be viewed as progressive? It's time to transfer all SS funds into private, secure, individual 401K or IRA accounts.

healthcareforall2010....here's a little history lesson for you:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/13/194350.shtml

@masteroftheobvious: Do you really think you have control over your 401K or IRA? This recent stock market crash should have shown you that you have little or no real control over them. The only way you would have control is if you are spending every waking hour doing nothing but playing the market with your investments. My last 401K at the beginning of this century (just 10 years ago) lost every matching fund my employer put in and part of my investment until I finally wised up and put all of it into Treasuries. And my 401K provided by the employer only let you make changes every three months, so what kind of control is that? Neither private form of retirement savings (or a life annuity policy from an insurance company) will cover your "retirement expenses" any more that SS will unless you live a short life. Everyone better pray that they don't live beyond 70 because by the time you reach that age (unless you are close to it now and already have a few hundred thousand socked away in a guaranteed savings plan), you will most likely need to have several million set aside. If you end up needing assisted living, that will most likely cost you tens of thousands each month. I know what it costs right now as we had to put my 89 year old mother into assisted living. They just changed her to Level 4 care that now costs $5,000 per month (it started at $3800 for level 2 when we placed her there in September.) Her savings are almost depleted trying to pay the difference between her teacher's retirement and widow's SS benefits. We are now hoping that she will get the VA widow's benefits that she never claimed when my dad died in January 1986.

Anti-trust...I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with your mom. I know times are hard for alot of people that are the target of spending cuts. But if we dont get a grip on this somehow, someway, this will have some serious affect on this country's prosperity, or whats left of it. The rioting in France about their benefits is close to happening here because we are going broke. I am not a fan of SS because I am paying $4000 a year into it and may not see a dime of it. My wife, the same deal. Thats $8,000 from the 2 of us, plus the employer doubles it....so $16,000 a year from us alone. If that money could go into an account just for us, we would be so much better off and secure. Instead my generation funds the previous generation. I do not know how to change this since we are already down the path we are on. I am thinking either the government get SS out of the general fund and put it back in its own trust fund, or do away with it altogether and give us back the $600 a month my family pays into it.

Everyone wants whats best for them. You want it to stay the same since that benefits you. I want it to change so it benefits my generation. It sickens me to pay into something of this caliber that I may not see any benefit from it. I do not know the solution but I know the path we are on is the path to doomsday.

Do you pay car insurance? Do you pay property insurance? Do you think you will ever have a claim that will "pay back" all that you invested in those insurance policies? Social Security is and always has been a retirement "insurance" plan and is one that actually does "pay back" what you put into it.

Social security is not insurance. There is no guaranteed benefit, your heirs get nothing if you die, and there is no underlying capital requirements to insure its solvency. The cupboards are bare, don't perpetuate the myth.

If the life of a buisness owner is so great, why don't we all own one? Have you walked in their shoes?

I never worked for or received a pay check directly from a consumer. And I guess all that corp to corp commerce that goes on doesn't really count, huh?

Do you think this paperwork requirement will bring the cash under the table economy into compliance? If so, I have some land I'd like to sell you.

Give it a rest Russell...

You're not the only one who owns a small business...

But you are the only one who doesn't realize you can slap your 6 year old granddaughter on the computer and generate the paperwork they are asking for....

Maybe what you should be saying is all of us small business owners don't do all of our paperwork out of the trunks of our cars as you obviously do!

I generate forms, I submit forms, I pay taxes! I already submit to the 1099 laws. But, I am fed up with big brothers continual increase of demands. They require us to pay SS for ourselves and our employess. They refuse to participate in this program for themselves, having a better option. They exempt themselves from the Socialized Health Care they say we really have to have. Is there something I am missing or are we"lower classed" citizens, paying the way for the "chosen few"?

b dune -

Didn't you realize that there are child labor laws? Or do you like exploiting children?

mecium... you are exactly 100% spot on. I work in a field where instead of companies hiring us as employees they were hiring us as self-employed 3rd party Independent Contractors and filing 1099s on any wages they paid us over $600 in a year. This way these companies could make us work all hours and as many hours as they wanted with no overtime or benefits. They paid nothing into SS, Disability, Unemployment etc. The entire burden was on us. When there was no work we could not file for unemployment. If we got hurt on the job we were SOL.

Secondly this law has always been on the books. Only now it's being ENFORCED to curb not only employer abuse of employees but it eliminates tax cheats by forcing them to claim all of their earned income and contribute to SS & Medicare.

Tammy

I only get concerned about "child labor laws" being exploited when Kathy Lee does it....when I do it it's ok.

I exploited each of my four children over the course of 25 years....it is called "Small Business Income Shifting"....the income they made paid for each of their college educations...

Just a little old lib taking advantage of the policies put in place by the conservatives for the conservatives.

Russell

now it's not the paperwork...but who pays SS?

shifting rant you got going..

Since all Federal Employees, senators, congressmen pay into social security - whats your problem?

Since all Federal Employees, senators, congressmen pay into their Healthcare Program - what's your problem?

It's obvious you can't defend your stance on the new paperwork....so move on and attack another issue you will fail at.

The businesses were already killed, under Bush. Vote out the Teatards.

Too right frag!

True conservative Americans don't want the waste, dont want the ear marks, don't want the back room deals, don't want any of the things that are bringing America to her knees. We don't just blame republicans, we don't just blame democrats, we know that all are guilty. Government gets bigger, sets up special benifits for the members of the government and deminishes the benifits we, the working people try to provide for ourselves. It is out of hand, has been and continues. How do we stop it?

Never thought conservatives WANT war. Was Lyndon Johnson, the man who greatly escalated the Vietnam War, a conservative?

...and they call themselves 'christians'...

Christians indeed!