Here is an idea for the FDA and the government to create jobs. Make it a law that all drugs sold in this country, must be produced in this country instead of off shore. Just last month millions of dollars was awarded because GSK had not controlled the dosage amounts in its pills of Paxil that was produced by the Puerto Rico Plant. They said there was no harm, guess what, my husband committed suicide because of those pills that he was taking. I am still doing more investigating myself and will be headed to a lawyer that would like to get involved with my case. It is time for the drug companies to be put in their place and they owe the public many answers which is all covered up by our own government. Maybe Wiki leaks could help me out on this too!
When I was a kid, some over the counter cough syrups were 40% alcohol. Many of us visited the little grocery store across the street from the middle school on breaks and bought a bottle of cough syrup to get us through the day.
Johnson and Johnson is headed for some major trouble. They make Neutrogena sunscreen products and also Neosporin and these two items never have an expiration date. They only have a lot number which is in white on the crimp edge of the tube. You can't even read it and if you do, you have to call them with the lot number. I don't know what they are trying to hide, but these two products should visibly have expiration dates because of the consequences if these products are ineffective. Listen up Johnson and Johnson.
FYI -- No sunscreens have an expiration date, not just the J&J ones. Expiration dating means that at some point, the product will be ineffective...sunscreens are effective for lengthy periods of time, far in excess of when the chemical degradation would occur. Sunscreens are seasonal products in most markets (exception being southern states), and a majority of unsold product is returned to the manufacturer at the end of the season. The production for the following year is increased/decreased based on how much was sold the previous year. This way, you're never having product sit on the shelves for years at a time.
As for Neosporin, it's an ointment with no active ingredient to break down, therefore no expiration date. It doesn't need one.
Expiration dating is for products in which chemical degradation will limit the effectiveness of the product. You don't have this scenario with the products you mention, therefore no expiration date. It's not a sneaky manuever by any stretch...it's just not necessary.
This is what happens when a corporation is overrun by sneaky weasels who more than anything want to pinch pennies and cause as much pain and suffering as possible . . .
It takes a while for everything to escalate to the point that it becomes completely and totally out of control, but sneaky weasels are both patient and insidious . . .
And while the general lack of quality control is troubling, from my perspective the most disturbing aspect--which as best as I can determine was revealed for the first time in this MSNBC/REUTERS report--is that Johnson & Johnson apparently does not manufacture some of its brand-name products:
Just a week ago, J&J recalled 9 million bottles of Tylenol because packaging did not adequately inform customers about the presence of trace amounts of alcohol. They were made by a third-party manufacturer.
It is no surprise that medicines made in Puerto Rico are suspect, because while being an unincorporated territory of our great nation, it is an island essentially in the middle of nowhere in the Caribbean Sea that for a long time was used primarily for target practice by the U. S. Navy, and it operates according to a very different set of rules, which in part are the consequence of its being fourth from left-to-right in the geographical sequence {Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico} or first from right-to-left if you reverse the order, which politically makes a bit more sense in some respects . . .
In terms of the least desired places for obtaining any type of medicine or medical equipment, I put Puerto Rico somewhere between China and India in the range of worst to pretty bad "Just say, 'No!'" countries of origin, but so what . . .
So what!
This is not such a difficult thing to discover, and it certainly is no surprise here in the sound isolation studio, but it is quite disturbing to discover that Johnson & Johnson has been having at least one of its brand name products manufactured by a "third part manufacturer", which basically moves everything into the realm of "Just say, 'No!'" countries . . .
The problem is that most generic medicines are manufactured in the "Just say, 'No!'" countries using formulations that are not the same as the brand name medicines, even though they share the same basic chemical formulations or derivatives of the original brand name formulations . . .
Even with something so apparently simple as aspirin, which has been manufactured for over a century, there is (a) Bayer aspirin and (b) all the other aspirins, and while the only basic chemical differences might be the fillers used in the tablets and the super-duper coating or whatever, there are differences, which perhaps is easiest to understand with an analogy, metaphor, or simile from the soda pop arena, where there is (a) Dr. Pepper made in Dublin, Texas with Imperial Pure Cane Sugar and (b) all the other Dr. Pepper which is made with high-fructose corn syrup, which also is the case with (a) Mexican Coca-Cola, which is made with pure cane sugar as is most Coca-Cola made outside the US and (b) Coca-Cola made in the US which is made with high-fructose corn syrup (with the exception of seasonal Kosher Coca-Cola made in the US, which is made with pure cane sugar or sucrose, if you prefer) . . .
If you think (a) that nothing matters and (b) that there are no differences based on ingredients, then if you enjoy original Dr. Pepper, order a case of the Dr. Pepper in the 8-ounce glass bottles from the Dublin Dr. Pepper bottler and do your own comparison, which certainly will be enlightening, for sure . . .
And if your local Walmart Supercenter has a Latin section, then you might be able to find some outstanding Mexican Coca-Cola made with pure cane sugar in 12-ounce glass bottles there, as well as some fabulous Sidral Mundet apple soda made with pure cane sugar, which additionally has real apple flavoring, as well as no caffeine for those folks who do not have the "coffee achiever" gene . . .
For prescription medicines, one of the biggest concerns is the way time-releasing is handled, which for generic drugs typically is not the same as the way it is done for the original brand name drug, so while the basic active ingredients might be the same biologically or chemically, the time-releasing agents, fillers, coating, and so forth (which for some medicines comprise the bulk of the actual tablet, capsule, or whatever) are not the same, so what happens is that (a) the various medical literature based on studying and reporting the way medicines work when they are in their patent-protected years and cannot be copied or sold in generic formulations is used by medical doctors to determine how to prescribe and monitor medicines, but then (b) along come generics and while some of them might behave the same way as the original brand name drugs, this is not always the case, so while the brand name drug works wonderfully, there are problems with the generic drug, since it is not identical in every respect to the original brand name drug, and this can be confusing to medical doctors who never take the time to focus on details or perhaps essentially are ordered by their employers or by agents of patient health insurance companies to prescribe generics unless the medical doctors can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the brand-name medicine is the only one that will work . . .
The differences might appear to be insignificant to the FDA, health insurance companies, and anyone whose education pretty much is based on completing a few elementary school science classes and watching a 30-minute training cartoon, but there are differences, and my general perspective is that differences tend to be significant, even when they might appear to be insignificant . . .
And toward the goal of identifying and eliminating sneaky weaseling, it is useful to know that Bayer has started manufacturing some of its aspirin in at least one "Just say, 'No!'" country, although at present it is difficult to determine whether any of that aspirin is sold in the US, because Bayer dropped all obvious references to anything that might provide a clue regarding where its aspirin actually is manufactured, which insofar as I am concerned is one of the early signs of sneaky weaseling, along with such meaningless and deceptive labeling phrases as "distributed by", "packaged in the US by", and so forth and so on . . .
I want to know where it originates, who makes it, and so forth, at which time I can make an informed decision . . .
If it is made in China, then tell me . . .
The Chinese certainly have the ability to make good stuff, so I am not arbitrarily opposed to much of anything, but provide the information and let me decide what I want to do based on having as much information as possible . . .
Chile has some outstanding table grapes, and Perú has the best sweet onions in the world, so knowing the country of origin is both very helpful and quite likely to map to my paying more rather than less for products, which certainly is the case with the Mayan Sweets® onions from Perú, which are stellar in every respect, with some of them being grown in Nicaragua, although the ones grown in Perú are the best . . .
And this also is the case with the Viña Los Vascos coastal vineyards in Chile where an outstanding but typically quite inexpensive cabernet sauvignon is produced using grapes from ungrafted pre-phylloxera Bordeaux rootstock and is grown in the "dry and flood" style, which puts the most stress on the grape vines, thereby causing the plants to go into "self-protection" mode, which maps to increased levels of proanthocyanidins and other flavonoids, which in turn maps to stellar taste and perhaps some health benefits, as well . . .
And in some instances, generic medicines might work better for some patients, so it all depends on the specifics, but here in the sound isolation studio I am not thrilled to learn that a so-called "brand name" company is having some of its medicines made by a "third-party manufacturer, since for all practical purposes this makes it appear to be a brand-name medicine when it actually is a generic, which insofar as I am concerned is egregious sneaky weaseling, and it appears that the FDA and other federal health and safety officials have similar concerns . . .
And based on the quantity of recently recalled Johnson & Johnson products provided in the MSNBC/REUTERS report, I think it should be obvious that over the long run sneaky weaseling never saves money for a company, since when the level of sneaky weaseling becomes egregious, it is quite likely to result in the destruction of the company, its brands, and its goodwill . . .
All told, more than 200 million bottles of J&J products have been recalled in the past year, including painkillers Tylenol and Motrin, allergy treatment Benadryl and Rolaid antacid.
Doing a bit of simple arithmetic based on the average retail price of $5 a bottle, this maps to well over 1 BILLION DOLLARS at retail, which I suggest is a more than sufficient amount of money to build quite a few state-of-the-art manufacturing plants in the US or at least to provide the various equipment maintenance and other workers with tools, spare parts, high-quality cleaning materials, brooms, mops, and so forth and so on, really . . .
Wow, you've really gone off the deep end. Here are a few points to consider, however:
1. J&J has a long history of third-party manufacturing. It's the way they've always operated, save for a few US manufacturing facilities. Consider that there are over 100 J&J subsidiary companies, and most of them operate with third-party manufacturers, not their own individual plants.
2. Third-party manufacturers give the ability to easily cut and run when issues arise. When these companies know that J&J could take away business in a heartbeat, they don't relax on product quality.
3. The major issue with J&J and the FDA this year was with an internal J&J manufacturing facility in Pennsylvania, not with a third-party manufacturer. This led to most of the recalls for this year.
4. The recent recalls for Tylenol, Mylanta, etc. were based on the chemical treatment of wooden pallets and the lack of information from a supplier as to the alcohol content of the flavoring used in some formulas. This has nothing to do with whether the company is in the US or overseas.
5. This is not "sneaky weaseling", as this is a VOLUNTARY recall, and the money used for the recalls is coming straight out of J&J's pockets. If they tried to justify the sale and use of these products without a recall could be weaseling, but to recall everything out of precaution is not sneaky in the least bit. Especially when it's so public. This is to insulate them from any lawsuit-sniffing lawyers, and is to protect the public at-large.
6. Finally, the product recalled for the alcohol content issue will be relabeled, repackaged, and sold. The company is eating the cost of recalling the product, but the product will be back on the market and therefore your figure of a billion or so dollars is not quite accurate, not to mention the fact that the per bottle figure you gave is the retail price, not the price sold by J&J.
Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. You'll find that most things you buy are made by third-party manufacturers, not just globally but also right here in the United States.
Sneaky weaseling abounds at the dawn of the early-21st century . . .
Regarding the idea that "the product recalled for the alcohol content issue will be relabeled, repackaged, and sold", I certainly hope not . . .
The thought of hundreds of low-paid temporary workers opening individual packages, handling the containers and perhaps the contents, and then repackaging everything is a bit frightening, really . . .
Really!
No doubt, all the temporary workers will be screened for influenza and other communicable diseases, and all of them will be wearing "clean suits" in a sanitized work area . . .
And the Tooth Fairy is real . . .
On the other hand, your information regarding a lot of so-called "brand-name" products actually being made by third-party manufacturers appears to be quite accurate, which is not a comforting thing from my perspective, since it pretty much negates the justification for paying more for a "brand-name" product based on the apparent fantasy that the additional cost is due to higher quality manufacturing practices, better paid workers, and top-quality raw materials . . .
Common sense tends to suggest strongly that if Johnson & Johnson actually was making high-quality products, then there would be no recalls of their products, so the general view here in the sound isolation studio is that the best strategy regarding Johnson & Johnson is to "Just say, 'No!'", for sure . . .
For sure!
P. S. The biggest problem with the idea of "repackaging" recalled products that already have been shipped to distributors and stores but then are returned is that the original supplier (in this instance, Johnson & Johnson) has lost control over security, hence Johnson & Johnson cannot state for certain whether the products are (a) genuine and pristine or (b) counterfeit and adulterated, which I think is more than sufficient reason to destroy all of it . . .
Otherwise, it becomes a matter of using applied mathematics (probability, statistics, and so forth) and actuarial science, since it probably is neither practical nor possible to have a worker check every individual package to verify that the lot number and other security information is correct, as well as to ensure that none of the packages and containers have been opened or whatever . . .
Whatever!
So, one has to do what I call the "light bulb thing", where the basic strategy is to select a few light bulbs and to test them to determine the confidence level with respect to the light bulbs actually working for a specified amount of time, although in practice there is a lot more involved than just randomly selecting a few light bulbs, since quality control testing is done at every step in the manufacturing process based on some variation of Statistical Process Control . . .
Depending on which of many sources one finds to be more credible, I think that it is reasonable to suggest that perhaps as much as 10 percent of medicines are counterfeit and either do not contain the stated active ingredients or contain a lot of other stuff, some of which can be deadly and in fact has been a problem in our great nation for a long time, where an adulterated or tainted batch of medicine that caused deaths in the 1937 is what led to the Congress in 1938 creating the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which gave the FDA considerably expanded authority and power . . .
So that we are clear on the "sneaky weaseling" aspect, my perspective is that the sneaky weasel approach will be either (a) to do as you suggested and simply presume that all the recalled products are genuine and pristine at which time they will be repackaged and then resold with correct labeling or (b) to do the repackaging and relabeling but instead of reselling the products in the US, ship the repackaged products to a third-world country and sell them there, based on a variety of elaborate actuarial and statistical calculations that weigh the cost and profit factors of the various scenarios with respect to the probability of consumer problems, the cost of domestic vs. foreign shipping, adverse event litigation, and so and so on . . .
Another option might be simply to attach a sticker to each package without every opening it, which also falls into what I consider to be the "sneaky weaseling" category . . .
Historically, the general concept of highly-secure tamper-proof packaging of over-the-counter (OTC) drugs originated with Tylenol after a series of murders in Chicago in 1982, where Extra Strength Tylenol capsules laced with potassium cyanide killed seven people . . .
Folks younger than perhaps 35 to 40 years-old probably have no idea about all that mess and the way it changed packaging, but prior that event nearly nothing sold in grocery and drug stores over-the-counter had anything even remotely resembling highly-secure tamper-proof packaging, including food . . .
Jars of mayonnaise did not have plastic security seals, and nothing else had plastic or aluminum foil safety seals, although as best as I can recall, I think that the lids on plastic gallon containers of milk were the same in the 1970s as they are today, since I remember saving the lids and using them for checkers, where the general strategy was to get an equal number of containers with red tops and some other color of tops, which usually was possible either by switching brands or getting a different type of milk (for example, buttermilk or chocolate milk), since the tops usually were color-coded to specific products . . .
Of course, another reality at the dawn of the early-21st century is that for the most part nobody cares about anything anymore except pinching pennies, and the same general sneaky weasel thinking that created the current huge mess at Johnson & Johnson probably will continue to self-perpetuate itself by making more patently bad decisions . . .
If I were the product manager for Tylenol at Johnson & Johnson, there is no way I would allow even one bottle of Tylenol to be repackaged, relabeled, or anything else after it left the factory, because those words lead quickly to opening a can of worms that took Johnson & Johnson years, if not decades, to close and to relegate to the dark side of history . . .
The fact of the matter is that nobody over the age of 40-years old or thereabout will touch a bottle of Tylenol that does not look right, and while I have purchased some Tylenol at various times in the 1990s, it was the elaborate highly-secure and tamper-proof packaging that provided a good level of comfort, even though getting the actual bottle open took a few minutes, which is fine with me, for sure . . .
For sure!
The thinking here in the sound isolation studio is that if it requires a knife or a pair of pliers to remove the foil safety seal on a bottle of Hunt's Ketchup, then I am very happy, especially since the fine folks at Hunt's stopped using high-fructose corn syrup and started using pure cane sugar for their now outstanding ketchup, really . . .
Really! :)
P. P. S. To be clear regarding the most recent recalls, there were 12 million bottles of Mylanta, 85,000 bottles of AlternaGel, and 9 million bottles of Tylenol, as explained in this news report from REUTERS, where the Mylanta and AlternaGel products are liquid in bottles that most likely have the ingredients incorrectly stated, so "repackaging" them would require either (a) emptying the liquid from the bottles and putting it into new correctly labeled bottles or (b) putting a new correct label on top of the existing incorrect label, which is a mess, since overall it conveys the message that the product has been shipped all over the place and handled by a virtual festival of people, most of whom are not under the direct control and supervision of Johnson & Johnson . . .
However, there might be a way to build a machine that would verify the antacid bottles; wash and rinse them; and then automatically open and dump the liquid into a bit vat, where one might suppose the liquid in the vat could be tested to ensure that it is what it is supposed to be, at which point it could be rebottled and sold, but does anyone sell that type of machinery?
I have no idea, but anything is possible . . .
Whether it makes any sense to do all that work is another matter, so my best guess is that if the folks at Johnson & Johnson have any sense and additionally have some skilled tax accountants, then they will destroy the recalled products and enjoy the benefits of a handsome tax deduction, as well probably as a nice insurance claim, since they probably have insurance policies for stuff like this . . .
And regarding conspiracy theories, I think that when a company has to recall 200 million products for quality control issues, then ipso facto it is well beyond anything associated with conspiracies, hypotheses, and theories . . .
A conspiracy theory is that the Reptilians are increasing their activities deep underground, which among other things caused the recent BP "Macondo" well blowout and oil spill, as well as the ongoing earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, all of which are related directly to the discovery of the Montezuma's "Black Room" and portal to the underworld underneath Mexico City, the Desaguadero Meteor near Lake Titicaca just a few hundred miles southeast of Machu Picchu, and the Guatemala City sinkholes . . .
The thought of hundreds of low-paid temporary workers opening individual packages, handling the containers and perhaps the contents, and then repackaging everything is a bit frightening, really
Taking bottles out of packaging and relabeling/repackaging by machine isn't that hard to do. It's done all the time whenever a mistake is noted. It doesn't have to be done in clean suits or clean rooms...you're not opening the filled bottles to relabel the outside, and there's no requirement for the product to be sterile (which would necessitate the clean suits).
No doubt, all the temporary workers will be screened for influenza and other communicable diseases, and all of them will be wearing "clean suits" in a sanitized work area
This doesn't happen when the product is initially filled and packaged, so why would you expect it to occur when it's just relabeled?
...since it pretty much negates the justification for paying more for a "brand-name" product based on the apparent fantasy that the additional cost is due to higher quality manufacturing practices, better paid workers, and top-quality raw materials
Hold your horses, there...although the products are made by contracted facilities, they are still made via high quality manufacturing practices with top-quality raw materials according to the standards of the parent company (in this case J&J). These contract manufacturers are directed to buy specific raw materials from specific audited suppliers, and are held to the same standards as "in-house" operations. These third-party manufacturers are audited by J&J and if they don't abide by the rules, they don't produce anymore for the company. So relax...everything's on the up and up.
Common sense tends to suggest strongly that if Johnson & Johnson actually was making high-quality products, then there would be no recalls of their products
Uh, no. Every company has recalls. Need I remind you that this is a voluntary recall to include more information about the alcohol content of one of the flavoring ingredients. This is not about "bad" product that doesn't meet specification. You would be out of luck if you tried to find products from companies that never repackaged or recalled some product for a minor issue like this.
The biggest problem with the idea of "repackaging" recalled products that already have been shipped to distributors and stores but then are returned is that the original supplier (in this instance, Johnson & Johnson) has lost control over security, hence Johnson & Johnson cannot state for certain whether the products are (a) genuine and pristine or (b) counterfeit and adulterated, which I think is more than sufficient reason to destroy all of it
That's why there's tamper-evident packaging, dude. That came out of the Tylenol scare of the 1980s. You're behind the times.
since it probably is neither practical nor possible to have a worker check every individual package to verify that the lot number and other security information is correct, as well as to ensure that none of the packages and containers have been opened or whatever
There's electronic label verification equipment involving cameras and UV detection to ensure that the label information is correct and that the tamper-evident packaging is intact. Maybe you should know what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off.
Depending on which of many sources one finds to be more credible, I think that it is reasonable to suggest that perhaps as much as 10 percent of medicines are counterfeit
These statistics relate to the medicine entering the country from overseas, not to medicine on the shelves from intact, monitored distribution channels. Again, think before you speak. As for statistical process control, that's a staple in the pharma and consumer industry...already in place, buddy. AQLs are used every day to sample product.
to do the repackaging and relabeling but instead of reselling the products in the US, ship the repackaged products to a third-world country and sell them there
Your cynicism shows no bounds. Why even repackage if you're going to ship outside this country (especially since most other countries take different label copies in different languages)? This makes no sense!
Another option might be simply to attach a sticker to each package without every opening it, which also falls into what I consider to be the "sneaky weaseling" category
Not if it's a voluntarily recall to include additional information missing from the additional information. Again, this is done all the time, with the next label copy revision incorporating the new wording directly on the labeling. This is by no means sneaky -- attaching an extra label does not mislead in any way, shape, or form!
If I were the product manager for Tylenol at Johnson & Johnson, there is no way I would allow even one bottle of Tylenol to be repackaged, relabeled, or anything else after it left the factory
Once again, the product in the primary package is untouched, with the security seal remaining on the bottles. Only the labeling will change. I don't understand how you think that the product inside the bottle could have been altered. I think you're misunderstanding the term "repackaged". It means the labeling and secondary packaging, NOT the bottle itself.
To be clear regarding the most recent recalls, there were 12 million bottles of Mylanta, 85,000 bottles of AlternaGel, and 9 million bottles of Tylenol, as explained in this news report from REUTERS, where the Mylanta and AlternaGel products are liquid in bottles that most likely have the ingredients incorrectly stated, so "repackaging" them would require either (a) emptying the liquid from the bottles and putting it into new correctly labeled bottles...
You clearly don't understand the issue. They would NEVER empty the liquid from the bottles. Relabeling and repackaging them would not necessitate this. Sorry, you're just wrong here. Nowhere in the articles or communication from J&J did it say this was required.
It is clear you do not understand the issue or corrective actions necessary here. Please stop with your false rumors...it does no one any good to blather on about fictitious "emptying the bottles" strategies...that is not the case here.
It appears that the discussion has wandered even deeper into conspiracy theories, which certainly works for me, since being an entertainer who currently composes songs about ladies underpants, I have plenty of free time with nothing to do other than to practice creative writing and touch-typing, which is fabulous . . .
And prior to jumping head over heels into the most obvious conspiracy theory, let me take a moment to state two facts:
(1) I am having a discussion with a penguin . . .
(2) Other than ladies Jell-O® wrestling--but only when watched exclusively by men--there is only one non-gay sport, which to be specific is golf . . .
Why is golf not a gay sport?
Great question!
(1) Each player is required to his his own clubs and balls (ipso facto, sharing clubs and balls is prohibited) . . .
(2) Touching the shaft of another player's club is prohibited, as is touching another player's balls . . .
(3) Each hole is surrounded by turf and has a clearly identified entry point with a "little flag" on top . . .
(4) Players who hit their balls "out of bounds" are penalized two points for bad aim . . .
(5) Foreplay is expected, and there are no penalties for taking a long time to get to the hole . . .
You wrote this:
That's why there's tamper-evident packaging, dude. That came out of the Tylenol scare of the 1980s. You're behind the times.
I wrote this:
Historically, the general concept of highly-secure tamper-proof packaging of over-the-counter (OTC) drugs originated with Tylenol after a series of murders in Chicago in 1982, where Extra Strength Tylenol capsules laced with potassium cyanide killed seven people . . .
Folks younger than perhaps 35 to 40 years-old probably have no idea about all that mess and the way it changed packaging, but prior that event nearly nothing sold in grocery and drug stores over-the-counter had anything even remotely resembling highly-secure tamper-proof packaging, including food . . .
Jars of mayonnaise did not have plastic security seals, and nothing else had plastic or aluminum foil safety seals, although as best as I can recall, I think that the lids on plastic gallon containers of milk were the same in the 1970s as they are today, since I remember saving the lids and using them for checkers, where the general strategy was to get an equal number of containers with red tops and some other color of tops, which usually was possible either by switching brands or getting a different type of milk (for example, buttermilk or chocolate milk), since the tops usually were color-coded to specific products . . .
Of course, another reality at the dawn of the early-21st century is that for the most part nobody cares about anything anymore except pinching pennies, and the same general sneaky weasel thinking that created the current huge mess at Johnson & Johnson probably will continue to self-perpetuate itself by making more patently bad decisions . . .
If I were the product manager for Tylenol at Johnson & Johnson, there is no way I would allow even one bottle of Tylenol to be repackaged, relabeled, or anything else after it left the factory, because those words lead quickly to opening a can of worms that took Johnson & Johnson years, if not decades, to close and to relegate to the dark side of history . . .
The fact of the matter is that nobody over the age of 40-years old or thereabout will touch a bottle of Tylenol that does not look right, and while I have purchased some Tylenol at various times in the 1990s, it was the elaborate highly-secure and tamper-proof packaging that provided a good level of comfort, even though getting the actual bottle open took a few minutes, which is fine with me, for sure . . .
For sure!
Consequently, it is obvious by your reply either (a) that you did not actually read my previous reply or (b) that you intentionally ignored my remarks about the Chicago Tylenol Murders, which of course points only to one thing, which is that you have information that you want to reveal but cannot at this time reveal, although you would like to reveal it . . .
So, toward the goal of helping you with your dilemma, I think it will be useful to review what we know from studying news reports of recent events and the historical documents:
(1) Long before the 2008 election, our President--an Hawaiian who apparently was trained as a youngster in a Muslim school in Indonesia--befriended Bill Ayers and moved to Chicago, and we know that Bill Ayers was a terrorist bomber and a high-ranking leader of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and sometime later the Weather Underground . . .
(2) Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa apparently disappeared just a few years after Bill Ayers moved to a senior position in the Weather Underground . . .
(3) When rising to power within the Students for a Democratic Society, Bill Ayers was headquartered in Detroit, Michigan . . .
(4) Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa was seen for the last time outside the Machus Red Fox restaurant in Detroit, Michigan . . .
(5) Red Foxx was an African-American comedian who had a popular television series called "Sanford and Son" . . .
(6) The Sanford company makes pencils and pens . . .
(7) Pencils and pens are used by writers to compose speeches like the various campaign speeches President Obama makes, as well as his State of the Union addresses . . .
(8) President Obama has strong ties to many people in Chicago . . .
(9) Bill Ayers lives in Chicago not so far from President Obama's house, which then political activist and U. S. Senator Obama apparently obtained in what appears to be a "sweetheart" deal that occurred on the same day as another real estate sale of adjacent properties, which involved reputed Chicago mobster Tony Rezko . . .
(10) The federal prosecutor investigating the Tony Rezko conspiracy case is Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the U. S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois . . .
(11) The only U. S. chief executive with formal university training in Economics was President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, although he was best known by his nickname "Jack" . . .
(12) Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown. And Jill came running after . . .
(13) President "Jack" Kennedy's wife was Jacqueline Kennedy, which is the feminine French name derived from Jacques . . .
(14) On September 23, 2010 Christopher G. Kennedy, who is the son of U. S. Senator and Attorney General Robert Kennedy, was instrumental in denying Bill Ayers emeritus status at the University of Illinois, in part because Bill Ayers dedicated a book to the terrorist assassin who murdered Kennedy's father . . .
(15) Within weeks of Bill Ayers being denied emeritus status, there were new rounds of Tylenol recalls . . .
(16) And there were initial rounds of Tylenol recalls earlier this year beginning just a few weeks after the 40th anniversary of the March 7, 1970 explosions in Greenwich Village which resulted in the deaths of several friends of Bill Ayers who also were fellow Students for a Democratic Society, where as he describes it at his website this explosive event "announced widely the existence of the Weather Underground" . . .
I think that with this foundation of facts, it is not so difficult to connect the dots, and if you have any information that you care to reveal about the involvement of President Obama, Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground, and Antoin "Tony" Rezko in the disappearance of Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa and the Chicago Tylenol Murders, it is OK to tell the world, because the truth will set you free, for sure . . .
Consequently, it is obvious by your reply either (a) that you did not actually read my previous reply or (b) that you intentionally ignored my remarks about the Chicago Tylenol Murders
No, dude...I read it, but it in no way resembles the facts in this matter. Fact: There are tamper-evident packages for this recall, which would easily show any package that had been opened. Easily screened before repackaging. Fact: The bottles WILL NOT be opened during repackaging. The primary (bottle) or secondary (carton) packaging will be relabeled, but the bottles will remain sealed. There is NO possibility for the Tylenol incident to repeat itself, which is why I said your argument is moot here.
That being said, there are three recall incidents you seem to be mixing up, none of which have anything to do with the recalls from the 80s due to cyanide.
The first is a microbiological screening that was not done for children's Tylenol products (among others) for which B. cepacia was not tested. This caused the PA plant to be shut down for the time being. Product was recalled and NOT put back out to market, as testing would require opening the primary package.
The second involved chemically-treated pallets (instead of heat-treated), which caused a musty odor in bottles. Product was recalled and NOT put back out to market, as it affected the product inside the bottle.
The third is this issue, in which one flavoring component had trace amounts of alcohol. The product will remain unopened, and will be relabeled to disclose the trace alcohol content. Nothing sinister here.
Please stop with the conspiracy nonsense and actually learn the facts before posting. Your lengthy drivel about nonsensical topics is annoying.
So it is like the Pepsi-Cola glass bottles in the late-1960s and early-1970s that had the red, white, and blue dots, where only the bottles with the red dots did not have LSD added by the CIA?
I can see this working, because consumers just need to avoid the Tylenol that has alcohol, which should be easy to do if they read the label . . .
Of course, since the contraindications for Tylenol state very clearly that taking Tylenol with alcohol can cause liver failure, this creates a bit of a paradox, but it might be resolved by adding a so-called "black box" warning to the repackaging, which is fabulous . . .
There are TRACE levels of alcohol in the product's FLAVORING, which is a minimal FRACTION of the overall formula. You're really stretching here. But this is exactly why the recall was done. You're proving my point. The recall will correct this oversight, which was the fault of the flavoring company for not disclosing the alcohol amount in the flavoring, and now you want to rip J&J apart for doing the right thing? I don't get it. Your conspiracy theories do not apply here, though.
Is this a great country or what? A trace of alcohol, and they spend millions to recall the product, but keep right on feeding us aspartame and genetically modified foods. Can no one think any more?
As the alcohol is only present in trace amounts of a flavoring which is then only a fraction of the overall formula, it likely has no effect at all. You might want to consult with the doctor who suggested taking the product for an infant, however. I don't know if the product was ever meant for infants, but it's unlikely that this fraction of a percent of alcohol would ever make a difference. The recall is based mainly for legal purposes, not for a health hazard.
What is worse then a product recall? The mass hysteria caused by ignorance that follows. Not sayin' you are going crazy Cindy, however some people are so easy to panic without getting full details and information. Calm down and have a chat with your doctor. Chances are very very very small that it means anything for an infant. But I agree with penguin....mylanta for an infant? Who knew?
Laos Deo, I think Johnson & Johnson is different from S. C. Johnson Company, which touts itself as a family run business. I may be wrong, and don't have time right now to research it, but if someone knows for sure, please let us know. Thanks.
I'm all for recalling dangerous products - but this is for trace amounts of alcohol! This is NOT a big deal by any standard, yet we've gotten so scared of our shadows that we're recalling for THIS?
This is coming from an "old" quality control/quality assurance/ lab manager guy who fails to understand why these recalls are becoming so frequent. I guess I'm more surprised in light of today's automated 'Good Manufacturing & Laboratory Practices' that are designed to ensure that all systems (not just the regulated ones) are in full compliance with specification requirements, company policies and procedures. And this should happen at third-party manufacturing facilities with the same degree of rigor as it does at the main manufacturing site.
I am convinced that a company of J&J's stature already has these (and more) effective systems of checks and audits in place. So why the failures resulting in the product recalls? Again, having seen how we have become so overly reliant on automation, to the exclusion of human interaction and judgement, I can only surmise that more human element needs to be reintroduced into the operations. And this should happen at all levels: from vendor validation, confirmation of raw material integrity (and that includes the local water supply), equipment maintenance (Blending, Lab, Manufacturing, Packaging Depts, etc), to the training of the hands-on guys. Most importantly, these individual entities must communicate freely (without fear of reprimand) and be able to speak the 'language' that can be understood by that Department's personnel. Like any good football team, a quarterback will be able to provide motivational and compliance leadership, clear direction and oversight. So too, a basketball team will flounder in the fourth quarter if the point guard cannot provide leadership.
Simply put, I feel J&J need to bring back more of the human touch in their manufacturing operations and this can happen without the detriment to automation and productivity. They are desperately in need of a point person to guide them through this malaise and return them to their former glory.
I think part of the problem has to do with these outside vendors that don't have control over their own operations. It usually stems from cost-cutting (especially in these hard economic times), where behind the big company's back (in this case J&J), the third-party company chooses a cheaper (and potentially lesser-quality) option for raw materials, etc. These decisions are usually out of the hands of J&J, unless a specific grade and supplier is requested to be used in the product specifications.
Sometimes it's also a mix-up of components at the third party site. If only J&J is requesting that a certain material is used, and all other companies serviced by the third party company use another material, it's not hard to imagine that an operator might inadvertently use one material over another when automated tracking systems aren't used. So I don't know whether reverting back to human tracking is the answer either, as human error is more likely than automated system errors.
Finally, I think that the frequency of these recalls are the result of the findings from the original McNeil plant (J&J owned) in Pennsylvania. More scrutiny stemming from this FDA audit led to everyone re-examining their own vendors, suppliers, and manufacturers. This in turn led to "Aha!" moments at certain vendors who weren't following the specifications, therefore the frequent recalls as the deficiencies were found. I expect this to continue for awhile until control is completely restored, with a relative period of quiet after all deficiencies are settled.
That being said, other companies (and not just pharma companies either) are recalling products too, but since J&J was in the spotlight for their huge recall earlier this year, any recall by them is subject to another big headline. Let's hope that they restore to their glory, because obviously 2010 has been a huge headache for them (ironic that Tylenol gave them a headache rather than cure it).
When will the Mylanta be back on the market ?????? I really really miss it. That is
the only antacid I can take. All others make me sick. I could take it and eat tomatoes and other things with acid and not have any problems. Please put Mylanta back in the stores soon.
Here is an idea for the FDA and the government to create jobs. Make it a law that all drugs sold in this country, must be produced in this country instead of off shore. Just last month millions of dollars was awarded because GSK had not controlled the dosage amounts in its pills of Paxil that was produced by the Puerto Rico Plant. They said there was no harm, guess what, my husband committed suicide because of those pills that he was taking. I am still doing more investigating myself and will be headed to a lawyer that would like to get involved with my case. It is time for the drug companies to be put in their place and they owe the public many answers which is all covered up by our own government. Maybe Wiki leaks could help me out on this too!
I still think the Stuxnet virus has something to do with all of these recent recalls.
They just don't want to admit it for obvious reasons.
Puerto Rico is an American Territory and its people are American Citizens. The FDA would have the same jurisdiction there as anywhere else in the U.S.
This was made in the U.S. and the plant is closed because of hygene issues, High volume of mexican labor is used in that plant. Go figure.
OH MYLANTA!
OH MYLANTA!
Relieve indigestion by getting drunk, not bad a 2 for 1 remedy
When I was a kid, some over the counter cough syrups were 40% alcohol. Many of us visited the little grocery store across the street from the middle school on breaks and bought a bottle of cough syrup to get us through the day.
What is happening with this family owned business????????
They should face criminal charges. People should start going to jail. This includes the drug companies and their lethal medications. This is criminal!
What a waste of money! I don't blame J&J though, they have to protect thier a$$es from some lawsuit happy idiot.
Agreed.
"First, do no harm". Words of wisdom to be followed.
Johnson and Johnson is headed for some major trouble. They make Neutrogena sunscreen products and also Neosporin and these two items never have an expiration date. They only have a lot number which is in white on the crimp edge of the tube. You can't even read it and if you do, you have to call them with the lot number. I don't know what they are trying to hide, but these two products should visibly have expiration dates because of the consequences if these products are ineffective. Listen up Johnson and Johnson.
FYI -- No sunscreens have an expiration date, not just the J&J ones. Expiration dating means that at some point, the product will be ineffective...sunscreens are effective for lengthy periods of time, far in excess of when the chemical degradation would occur. Sunscreens are seasonal products in most markets (exception being southern states), and a majority of unsold product is returned to the manufacturer at the end of the season. The production for the following year is increased/decreased based on how much was sold the previous year. This way, you're never having product sit on the shelves for years at a time.
As for Neosporin, it's an ointment with no active ingredient to break down, therefore no expiration date. It doesn't need one.
Expiration dating is for products in which chemical degradation will limit the effectiveness of the product. You don't have this scenario with the products you mention, therefore no expiration date. It's not a sneaky manuever by any stretch...it's just not necessary.
This is what happens when a corporation is overrun by sneaky weasels who more than anything want to pinch pennies and cause as much pain and suffering as possible . . .
It takes a while for everything to escalate to the point that it becomes completely and totally out of control, but sneaky weasels are both patient and insidious . . .
And while the general lack of quality control is troubling, from my perspective the most disturbing aspect--which as best as I can determine was revealed for the first time in this MSNBC/REUTERS report--is that Johnson & Johnson apparently does not manufacture some of its brand-name products:
[SOURCE: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40462026/ns/health-health_care ]
It is no surprise that medicines made in Puerto Rico are suspect, because while being an unincorporated territory of our great nation, it is an island essentially in the middle of nowhere in the Caribbean Sea that for a long time was used primarily for target practice by the U. S. Navy, and it operates according to a very different set of rules, which in part are the consequence of its being fourth from left-to-right in the geographical sequence {Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico} or first from right-to-left if you reverse the order, which politically makes a bit more sense in some respects . . .
In terms of the least desired places for obtaining any type of medicine or medical equipment, I put Puerto Rico somewhere between China and India in the range of worst to pretty bad "Just say, 'No!'" countries of origin, but so what . . .
So what!
This is not such a difficult thing to discover, and it certainly is no surprise here in the sound isolation studio, but it is quite disturbing to discover that Johnson & Johnson has been having at least one of its brand name products manufactured by a "third part manufacturer", which basically moves everything into the realm of "Just say, 'No!'" countries . . .
The problem is that most generic medicines are manufactured in the "Just say, 'No!'" countries using formulations that are not the same as the brand name medicines, even though they share the same basic chemical formulations or derivatives of the original brand name formulations . . .
Even with something so apparently simple as aspirin, which has been manufactured for over a century, there is (a) Bayer aspirin and (b) all the other aspirins, and while the only basic chemical differences might be the fillers used in the tablets and the super-duper coating or whatever, there are differences, which perhaps is easiest to understand with an analogy, metaphor, or simile from the soda pop arena, where there is (a) Dr. Pepper made in Dublin, Texas with Imperial Pure Cane Sugar and (b) all the other Dr. Pepper which is made with high-fructose corn syrup, which also is the case with (a) Mexican Coca-Cola, which is made with pure cane sugar as is most Coca-Cola made outside the US and (b) Coca-Cola made in the US which is made with high-fructose corn syrup (with the exception of seasonal Kosher Coca-Cola made in the US, which is made with pure cane sugar or sucrose, if you prefer) . . .
If you think (a) that nothing matters and (b) that there are no differences based on ingredients, then if you enjoy original Dr. Pepper, order a case of the Dr. Pepper in the 8-ounce glass bottles from the Dublin Dr. Pepper bottler and do your own comparison, which certainly will be enlightening, for sure . . .
http://www.dublindrpepper.com
And if your local Walmart Supercenter has a Latin section, then you might be able to find some outstanding Mexican Coca-Cola made with pure cane sugar in 12-ounce glass bottles there, as well as some fabulous Sidral Mundet apple soda made with pure cane sugar, which additionally has real apple flavoring, as well as no caffeine for those folks who do not have the "coffee achiever" gene . . .
http://www.novamex.com/sidral_mundet
For prescription medicines, one of the biggest concerns is the way time-releasing is handled, which for generic drugs typically is not the same as the way it is done for the original brand name drug, so while the basic active ingredients might be the same biologically or chemically, the time-releasing agents, fillers, coating, and so forth (which for some medicines comprise the bulk of the actual tablet, capsule, or whatever) are not the same, so what happens is that (a) the various medical literature based on studying and reporting the way medicines work when they are in their patent-protected years and cannot be copied or sold in generic formulations is used by medical doctors to determine how to prescribe and monitor medicines, but then (b) along come generics and while some of them might behave the same way as the original brand name drugs, this is not always the case, so while the brand name drug works wonderfully, there are problems with the generic drug, since it is not identical in every respect to the original brand name drug, and this can be confusing to medical doctors who never take the time to focus on details or perhaps essentially are ordered by their employers or by agents of patient health insurance companies to prescribe generics unless the medical doctors can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the brand-name medicine is the only one that will work . . .
The differences might appear to be insignificant to the FDA, health insurance companies, and anyone whose education pretty much is based on completing a few elementary school science classes and watching a 30-minute training cartoon, but there are differences, and my general perspective is that differences tend to be significant, even when they might appear to be insignificant . . .
And toward the goal of identifying and eliminating sneaky weaseling, it is useful to know that Bayer has started manufacturing some of its aspirin in at least one "Just say, 'No!'" country, although at present it is difficult to determine whether any of that aspirin is sold in the US, because Bayer dropped all obvious references to anything that might provide a clue regarding where its aspirin actually is manufactured, which insofar as I am concerned is one of the early signs of sneaky weaseling, along with such meaningless and deceptive labeling phrases as "distributed by", "packaged in the US by", and so forth and so on . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/magazine/02fda-t.html
I want to know where it originates, who makes it, and so forth, at which time I can make an informed decision . . .
If it is made in China, then tell me . . .
The Chinese certainly have the ability to make good stuff, so I am not arbitrarily opposed to much of anything, but provide the information and let me decide what I want to do based on having as much information as possible . . .
Chile has some outstanding table grapes, and Perú has the best sweet onions in the world, so knowing the country of origin is both very helpful and quite likely to map to my paying more rather than less for products, which certainly is the case with the Mayan Sweets® onions from Perú, which are stellar in every respect, with some of them being grown in Nicaragua, although the ones grown in Perú are the best . . .
http://www.sweetonions.net/Sweetonions/mayan_sweets/programhighlight.aspx
And this also is the case with the Viña Los Vascos coastal vineyards in Chile where an outstanding but typically quite inexpensive cabernet sauvignon is produced using grapes from ungrafted pre-phylloxera Bordeaux rootstock and is grown in the "dry and flood" style, which puts the most stress on the grape vines, thereby causing the plants to go into "self-protection" mode, which maps to increased levels of proanthocyanidins and other flavonoids, which in turn maps to stellar taste and perhaps some health benefits, as well . . .
http://www.lafite.com/eng/Other-Estates/Vina-Los-Vascos
And in some instances, generic medicines might work better for some patients, so it all depends on the specifics, but here in the sound isolation studio I am not thrilled to learn that a so-called "brand name" company is having some of its medicines made by a "third-party manufacturer, since for all practical purposes this makes it appear to be a brand-name medicine when it actually is a generic, which insofar as I am concerned is egregious sneaky weaseling, and it appears that the FDA and other federal health and safety officials have similar concerns . . .
And based on the quantity of recently recalled Johnson & Johnson products provided in the MSNBC/REUTERS report, I think it should be obvious that over the long run sneaky weaseling never saves money for a company, since when the level of sneaky weaseling becomes egregious, it is quite likely to result in the destruction of the company, its brands, and its goodwill . . .
[SOURCE: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40462026/ns/health-health_care ]
Doing a bit of simple arithmetic based on the average retail price of $5 a bottle, this maps to well over 1 BILLION DOLLARS at retail, which I suggest is a more than sufficient amount of money to build quite a few state-of-the-art manufacturing plants in the US or at least to provide the various equipment maintenance and other workers with tools, spare parts, high-quality cleaning materials, brooms, mops, and so forth and so on, really . . .
Really!
Wow, you've really gone off the deep end. Here are a few points to consider, however:
1. J&J has a long history of third-party manufacturing. It's the way they've always operated, save for a few US manufacturing facilities. Consider that there are over 100 J&J subsidiary companies, and most of them operate with third-party manufacturers, not their own individual plants.
2. Third-party manufacturers give the ability to easily cut and run when issues arise. When these companies know that J&J could take away business in a heartbeat, they don't relax on product quality.
3. The major issue with J&J and the FDA this year was with an internal J&J manufacturing facility in Pennsylvania, not with a third-party manufacturer. This led to most of the recalls for this year.
4. The recent recalls for Tylenol, Mylanta, etc. were based on the chemical treatment of wooden pallets and the lack of information from a supplier as to the alcohol content of the flavoring used in some formulas. This has nothing to do with whether the company is in the US or overseas.
5. This is not "sneaky weaseling", as this is a VOLUNTARY recall, and the money used for the recalls is coming straight out of J&J's pockets. If they tried to justify the sale and use of these products without a recall could be weaseling, but to recall everything out of precaution is not sneaky in the least bit. Especially when it's so public. This is to insulate them from any lawsuit-sniffing lawyers, and is to protect the public at-large.
6. Finally, the product recalled for the alcohol content issue will be relabeled, repackaged, and sold. The company is eating the cost of recalling the product, but the product will be back on the market and therefore your figure of a billion or so dollars is not quite accurate, not to mention the fact that the per bottle figure you gave is the retail price, not the price sold by J&J.
Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. You'll find that most things you buy are made by third-party manufacturers, not just globally but also right here in the United States.
@penguin:
Sneaky weaseling abounds at the dawn of the early-21st century . . .
Regarding the idea that "the product recalled for the alcohol content issue will be relabeled, repackaged, and sold", I certainly hope not . . .
The thought of hundreds of low-paid temporary workers opening individual packages, handling the containers and perhaps the contents, and then repackaging everything is a bit frightening, really . . .
Really!
No doubt, all the temporary workers will be screened for influenza and other communicable diseases, and all of them will be wearing "clean suits" in a sanitized work area . . .
And the Tooth Fairy is real . . .
On the other hand, your information regarding a lot of so-called "brand-name" products actually being made by third-party manufacturers appears to be quite accurate, which is not a comforting thing from my perspective, since it pretty much negates the justification for paying more for a "brand-name" product based on the apparent fantasy that the additional cost is due to higher quality manufacturing practices, better paid workers, and top-quality raw materials . . .
Common sense tends to suggest strongly that if Johnson & Johnson actually was making high-quality products, then there would be no recalls of their products, so the general view here in the sound isolation studio is that the best strategy regarding Johnson & Johnson is to "Just say, 'No!'", for sure . . .
For sure!
P. S. The biggest problem with the idea of "repackaging" recalled products that already have been shipped to distributors and stores but then are returned is that the original supplier (in this instance, Johnson & Johnson) has lost control over security, hence Johnson & Johnson cannot state for certain whether the products are (a) genuine and pristine or (b) counterfeit and adulterated, which I think is more than sufficient reason to destroy all of it . . .
Otherwise, it becomes a matter of using applied mathematics (probability, statistics, and so forth) and actuarial science, since it probably is neither practical nor possible to have a worker check every individual package to verify that the lot number and other security information is correct, as well as to ensure that none of the packages and containers have been opened or whatever . . .
Whatever!
So, one has to do what I call the "light bulb thing", where the basic strategy is to select a few light bulbs and to test them to determine the confidence level with respect to the light bulbs actually working for a specified amount of time, although in practice there is a lot more involved than just randomly selecting a few light bulbs, since quality control testing is done at every step in the manufacturing process based on some variation of Statistical Process Control . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_process_control
Depending on which of many sources one finds to be more credible, I think that it is reasonable to suggest that perhaps as much as 10 percent of medicines are counterfeit and either do not contain the stated active ingredients or contain a lot of other stuff, some of which can be deadly and in fact has been a problem in our great nation for a long time, where an adulterated or tainted batch of medicine that caused deaths in the 1937 is what led to the Congress in 1938 creating the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which gave the FDA considerably expanded authority and power . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_Drug_Administration#The_1938_Food.2C_Drug.2C_and_Cosmetic_Act
So that we are clear on the "sneaky weaseling" aspect, my perspective is that the sneaky weasel approach will be either (a) to do as you suggested and simply presume that all the recalled products are genuine and pristine at which time they will be repackaged and then resold with correct labeling or (b) to do the repackaging and relabeling but instead of reselling the products in the US, ship the repackaged products to a third-world country and sell them there, based on a variety of elaborate actuarial and statistical calculations that weigh the cost and profit factors of the various scenarios with respect to the probability of consumer problems, the cost of domestic vs. foreign shipping, adverse event litigation, and so and so on . . .
Another option might be simply to attach a sticker to each package without every opening it, which also falls into what I consider to be the "sneaky weaseling" category . . .
Historically, the general concept of highly-secure tamper-proof packaging of over-the-counter (OTC) drugs originated with Tylenol after a series of murders in Chicago in 1982, where Extra Strength Tylenol capsules laced with potassium cyanide killed seven people . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders
Folks younger than perhaps 35 to 40 years-old probably have no idea about all that mess and the way it changed packaging, but prior that event nearly nothing sold in grocery and drug stores over-the-counter had anything even remotely resembling highly-secure tamper-proof packaging, including food . . .
Jars of mayonnaise did not have plastic security seals, and nothing else had plastic or aluminum foil safety seals, although as best as I can recall, I think that the lids on plastic gallon containers of milk were the same in the 1970s as they are today, since I remember saving the lids and using them for checkers, where the general strategy was to get an equal number of containers with red tops and some other color of tops, which usually was possible either by switching brands or getting a different type of milk (for example, buttermilk or chocolate milk), since the tops usually were color-coded to specific products . . .
Of course, another reality at the dawn of the early-21st century is that for the most part nobody cares about anything anymore except pinching pennies, and the same general sneaky weasel thinking that created the current huge mess at Johnson & Johnson probably will continue to self-perpetuate itself by making more patently bad decisions . . .
If I were the product manager for Tylenol at Johnson & Johnson, there is no way I would allow even one bottle of Tylenol to be repackaged, relabeled, or anything else after it left the factory, because those words lead quickly to opening a can of worms that took Johnson & Johnson years, if not decades, to close and to relegate to the dark side of history . . .
The fact of the matter is that nobody over the age of 40-years old or thereabout will touch a bottle of Tylenol that does not look right, and while I have purchased some Tylenol at various times in the 1990s, it was the elaborate highly-secure and tamper-proof packaging that provided a good level of comfort, even though getting the actual bottle open took a few minutes, which is fine with me, for sure . . .
For sure!
The thinking here in the sound isolation studio is that if it requires a knife or a pair of pliers to remove the foil safety seal on a bottle of Hunt's Ketchup, then I am very happy, especially since the fine folks at Hunt's stopped using high-fructose corn syrup and started using pure cane sugar for their now outstanding ketchup, really . . .
Really! :)
P. P. S. To be clear regarding the most recent recalls, there were 12 million bottles of Mylanta, 85,000 bottles of AlternaGel, and 9 million bottles of Tylenol, as explained in this news report from REUTERS, where the Mylanta and AlternaGel products are liquid in bottles that most likely have the ingredients incorrectly stated, so "repackaging" them would require either (a) emptying the liquid from the bottles and putting it into new correctly labeled bottles or (b) putting a new correct label on top of the existing incorrect label, which is a mess, since overall it conveys the message that the product has been shipped all over the place and handled by a virtual festival of people, most of whom are not under the direct control and supervision of Johnson & Johnson . . .
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B105420101202
However, there might be a way to build a machine that would verify the antacid bottles; wash and rinse them; and then automatically open and dump the liquid into a bit vat, where one might suppose the liquid in the vat could be tested to ensure that it is what it is supposed to be, at which point it could be rebottled and sold, but does anyone sell that type of machinery?
I have no idea, but anything is possible . . .
Whether it makes any sense to do all that work is another matter, so my best guess is that if the folks at Johnson & Johnson have any sense and additionally have some skilled tax accountants, then they will destroy the recalled products and enjoy the benefits of a handsome tax deduction, as well probably as a nice insurance claim, since they probably have insurance policies for stuff like this . . .
And regarding conspiracy theories, I think that when a company has to recall 200 million products for quality control issues, then ipso facto it is well beyond anything associated with conspiracies, hypotheses, and theories . . .
A conspiracy theory is that the Reptilians are increasing their activities deep underground, which among other things caused the recent BP "Macondo" well blowout and oil spill, as well as the ongoing earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, all of which are related directly to the discovery of the Montezuma's "Black Room" and portal to the underworld underneath Mexico City, the Desaguadero Meteor near Lake Titicaca just a few hundred miles southeast of Machu Picchu, and the Guatemala City sinkholes . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians
The evidence is overwhelming, but until we actually capture a Reptilian, where is the proof?
I have no idea . . .
Taking bottles out of packaging and relabeling/repackaging by machine isn't that hard to do. It's done all the time whenever a mistake is noted. It doesn't have to be done in clean suits or clean rooms...you're not opening the filled bottles to relabel the outside, and there's no requirement for the product to be sterile (which would necessitate the clean suits).
This doesn't happen when the product is initially filled and packaged, so why would you expect it to occur when it's just relabeled?
Hold your horses, there...although the products are made by contracted facilities, they are still made via high quality manufacturing practices with top-quality raw materials according to the standards of the parent company (in this case J&J). These contract manufacturers are directed to buy specific raw materials from specific audited suppliers, and are held to the same standards as "in-house" operations. These third-party manufacturers are audited by J&J and if they don't abide by the rules, they don't produce anymore for the company. So relax...everything's on the up and up.
Uh, no. Every company has recalls. Need I remind you that this is a voluntary recall to include more information about the alcohol content of one of the flavoring ingredients. This is not about "bad" product that doesn't meet specification. You would be out of luck if you tried to find products from companies that never repackaged or recalled some product for a minor issue like this.
That's why there's tamper-evident packaging, dude. That came out of the Tylenol scare of the 1980s. You're behind the times.
There's electronic label verification equipment involving cameras and UV detection to ensure that the label information is correct and that the tamper-evident packaging is intact. Maybe you should know what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off.
These statistics relate to the medicine entering the country from overseas, not to medicine on the shelves from intact, monitored distribution channels. Again, think before you speak. As for statistical process control, that's a staple in the pharma and consumer industry...already in place, buddy. AQLs are used every day to sample product.
Your cynicism shows no bounds. Why even repackage if you're going to ship outside this country (especially since most other countries take different label copies in different languages)? This makes no sense!
Not if it's a voluntarily recall to include additional information missing from the additional information. Again, this is done all the time, with the next label copy revision incorporating the new wording directly on the labeling. This is by no means sneaky -- attaching an extra label does not mislead in any way, shape, or form!
Once again, the product in the primary package is untouched, with the security seal remaining on the bottles. Only the labeling will change. I don't understand how you think that the product inside the bottle could have been altered. I think you're misunderstanding the term "repackaged". It means the labeling and secondary packaging, NOT the bottle itself.
You clearly don't understand the issue. They would NEVER empty the liquid from the bottles. Relabeling and repackaging them would not necessitate this. Sorry, you're just wrong here. Nowhere in the articles or communication from J&J did it say this was required.
It is clear you do not understand the issue or corrective actions necessary here. Please stop with your false rumors...it does no one any good to blather on about fictitious "emptying the bottles" strategies...that is not the case here.
@penguin:
It appears that the discussion has wandered even deeper into conspiracy theories, which certainly works for me, since being an entertainer who currently composes songs about ladies underpants, I have plenty of free time with nothing to do other than to practice creative writing and touch-typing, which is fabulous . . .
http://www.surfwhammys.com/Im-Going-Goo-Goo-Over-Ga-Ga-11-28-2010-2-DP7.mp3
Fabulous!
And prior to jumping head over heels into the most obvious conspiracy theory, let me take a moment to state two facts:
(1) I am having a discussion with a penguin . . .
(2) Other than ladies Jell-O® wrestling--but only when watched exclusively by men--there is only one non-gay sport, which to be specific is golf . . .
Why is golf not a gay sport?
Great question!
(1) Each player is required to his his own clubs and balls (ipso facto, sharing clubs and balls is prohibited) . . .
(2) Touching the shaft of another player's club is prohibited, as is touching another player's balls . . .
(3) Each hole is surrounded by turf and has a clearly identified entry point with a "little flag" on top . . .
(4) Players who hit their balls "out of bounds" are penalized two points for bad aim . . .
(5) Foreplay is expected, and there are no penalties for taking a long time to get to the hole . . .
You wrote this:
I wrote this:
Consequently, it is obvious by your reply either (a) that you did not actually read my previous reply or (b) that you intentionally ignored my remarks about the Chicago Tylenol Murders, which of course points only to one thing, which is that you have information that you want to reveal but cannot at this time reveal, although you would like to reveal it . . .
So, toward the goal of helping you with your dilemma, I think it will be useful to review what we know from studying news reports of recent events and the historical documents:
(1) Long before the 2008 election, our President--an Hawaiian who apparently was trained as a youngster in a Muslim school in Indonesia--befriended Bill Ayers and moved to Chicago, and we know that Bill Ayers was a terrorist bomber and a high-ranking leader of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and sometime later the Weather Underground . . .
(2) Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa apparently disappeared just a few years after Bill Ayers moved to a senior position in the Weather Underground . . .
(3) When rising to power within the Students for a Democratic Society, Bill Ayers was headquartered in Detroit, Michigan . . .
(4) Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa was seen for the last time outside the Machus Red Fox restaurant in Detroit, Michigan . . .
(5) Red Foxx was an African-American comedian who had a popular television series called "Sanford and Son" . . .
(6) The Sanford company makes pencils and pens . . .
(7) Pencils and pens are used by writers to compose speeches like the various campaign speeches President Obama makes, as well as his State of the Union addresses . . .
(8) President Obama has strong ties to many people in Chicago . . .
(9) Bill Ayers lives in Chicago not so far from President Obama's house, which then political activist and U. S. Senator Obama apparently obtained in what appears to be a "sweetheart" deal that occurred on the same day as another real estate sale of adjacent properties, which involved reputed Chicago mobster Tony Rezko . . .
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/124171,CST-NWS-obama05.article
(10) The federal prosecutor investigating the Tony Rezko conspiracy case is Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the U. S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois . . .
(11) The only U. S. chief executive with formal university training in Economics was President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, although he was best known by his nickname "Jack" . . .
(12) Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown. And Jill came running after . . .
(13) President "Jack" Kennedy's wife was Jacqueline Kennedy, which is the feminine French name derived from Jacques . . .
(14) On September 23, 2010 Christopher G. Kennedy, who is the son of U. S. Senator and Attorney General Robert Kennedy, was instrumental in denying Bill Ayers emeritus status at the University of Illinois, in part because Bill Ayers dedicated a book to the terrorist assassin who murdered Kennedy's father . . .
(15) Within weeks of Bill Ayers being denied emeritus status, there were new rounds of Tylenol recalls . . .
(16) And there were initial rounds of Tylenol recalls earlier this year beginning just a few weeks after the 40th anniversary of the March 7, 1970 explosions in Greenwich Village which resulted in the deaths of several friends of Bill Ayers who also were fellow Students for a Democratic Society, where as he describes it at his website this explosive event "announced widely the existence of the Weather Underground" . . .
http://billayers.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/march-6-19702010-a-day-to-remember/
COMMENTS
I think that with this foundation of facts, it is not so difficult to connect the dots, and if you have any information that you care to reveal about the involvement of President Obama, Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground, and Antoin "Tony" Rezko in the disappearance of Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa and the Chicago Tylenol Murders, it is OK to tell the world, because the truth will set you free, for sure . . .
For sure! :)
No, dude...I read it, but it in no way resembles the facts in this matter. Fact: There are tamper-evident packages for this recall, which would easily show any package that had been opened. Easily screened before repackaging. Fact: The bottles WILL NOT be opened during repackaging. The primary (bottle) or secondary (carton) packaging will be relabeled, but the bottles will remain sealed. There is NO possibility for the Tylenol incident to repeat itself, which is why I said your argument is moot here.
That being said, there are three recall incidents you seem to be mixing up, none of which have anything to do with the recalls from the 80s due to cyanide.
The first is a microbiological screening that was not done for children's Tylenol products (among others) for which B. cepacia was not tested. This caused the PA plant to be shut down for the time being. Product was recalled and NOT put back out to market, as testing would require opening the primary package.
The second involved chemically-treated pallets (instead of heat-treated), which caused a musty odor in bottles. Product was recalled and NOT put back out to market, as it affected the product inside the bottle.
The third is this issue, in which one flavoring component had trace amounts of alcohol. The product will remain unopened, and will be relabeled to disclose the trace alcohol content. Nothing sinister here.
Please stop with the conspiracy nonsense and actually learn the facts before posting. Your lengthy drivel about nonsensical topics is annoying.
@penguin:
So it is like the Pepsi-Cola glass bottles in the late-1960s and early-1970s that had the red, white, and blue dots, where only the bottles with the red dots did not have LSD added by the CIA?
I can see this working, because consumers just need to avoid the Tylenol that has alcohol, which should be easy to do if they read the label . . .
Of course, since the contraindications for Tylenol state very clearly that taking Tylenol with alcohol can cause liver failure, this creates a bit of a paradox, but it might be resolved by adding a so-called "black box" warning to the repackaging, which is fabulous . . .
Fabulous! :)
There are TRACE levels of alcohol in the product's FLAVORING, which is a minimal FRACTION of the overall formula. You're really stretching here. But this is exactly why the recall was done. You're proving my point. The recall will correct this oversight, which was the fault of the flavoring company for not disclosing the alcohol amount in the flavoring, and now you want to rip J&J apart for doing the right thing? I don't get it. Your conspiracy theories do not apply here, though.
Is this a great country or what? A trace of alcohol, and they spend millions to recall the product, but keep right on feeding us aspartame and genetically modified foods. Can no one think any more?
My 4 month old grandson has been taking mylanta since he was a few weeks old for a reflux problem...what does this mean for an infant????
As the alcohol is only present in trace amounts of a flavoring which is then only a fraction of the overall formula, it likely has no effect at all. You might want to consult with the doctor who suggested taking the product for an infant, however. I don't know if the product was ever meant for infants, but it's unlikely that this fraction of a percent of alcohol would ever make a difference. The recall is based mainly for legal purposes, not for a health hazard.
What is worse then a product recall? The mass hysteria caused by ignorance that follows. Not sayin' you are going crazy Cindy, however some people are so easy to panic without getting full details and information. Calm down and have a chat with your doctor. Chances are very very very small that it means anything for an infant. But I agree with penguin....mylanta for an infant? Who knew?
The fda is getting ridiculous!
This was a voluntary recall by J&J, not directed by the FDA.
Oh my-lanta... ;-)
oh my lanta ;-)
Laos Deo, I think Johnson & Johnson is different from S. C. Johnson Company, which touts itself as a family run business. I may be wrong, and don't have time right now to research it, but if someone knows for sure, please let us know. Thanks.
SC Johnson & Son = private consumer company
Johnson & Johnson = publicly-traded consumer, pharma, & medical device company
2 different companies (Wikipedia pages for the 2 companies actually say "not to be confused with" the other company at the start of each page).
I'm all for recalling dangerous products - but this is for trace amounts of alcohol! This is NOT a big deal by any standard, yet we've gotten so scared of our shadows that we're recalling for THIS?
This is coming from an "old" quality control/quality assurance/ lab manager guy who fails to understand why these recalls are becoming so frequent. I guess I'm more surprised in light of today's automated 'Good Manufacturing & Laboratory Practices' that are designed to ensure that all systems (not just the regulated ones) are in full compliance with specification requirements, company policies and procedures. And this should happen at third-party manufacturing facilities with the same degree of rigor as it does at the main manufacturing site.
I am convinced that a company of J&J's stature already has these (and more) effective systems of checks and audits in place. So why the failures resulting in the product recalls? Again, having seen how we have become so overly reliant on automation, to the exclusion of human interaction and judgement, I can only surmise that more human element needs to be reintroduced into the operations. And this should happen at all levels: from vendor validation, confirmation of raw material integrity (and that includes the local water supply), equipment maintenance (Blending, Lab, Manufacturing, Packaging Depts, etc), to the training of the hands-on guys. Most importantly, these individual entities must communicate freely (without fear of reprimand) and be able to speak the 'language' that can be understood by that Department's personnel. Like any good football team, a quarterback will be able to provide motivational and compliance leadership, clear direction and oversight. So too, a basketball team will flounder in the fourth quarter if the point guard cannot provide leadership.
Simply put, I feel J&J need to bring back more of the human touch in their manufacturing operations and this can happen without the detriment to automation and productivity. They are desperately in need of a point person to guide them through this malaise and return them to their former glory.
I think part of the problem has to do with these outside vendors that don't have control over their own operations. It usually stems from cost-cutting (especially in these hard economic times), where behind the big company's back (in this case J&J), the third-party company chooses a cheaper (and potentially lesser-quality) option for raw materials, etc. These decisions are usually out of the hands of J&J, unless a specific grade and supplier is requested to be used in the product specifications.
Sometimes it's also a mix-up of components at the third party site. If only J&J is requesting that a certain material is used, and all other companies serviced by the third party company use another material, it's not hard to imagine that an operator might inadvertently use one material over another when automated tracking systems aren't used. So I don't know whether reverting back to human tracking is the answer either, as human error is more likely than automated system errors.
Finally, I think that the frequency of these recalls are the result of the findings from the original McNeil plant (J&J owned) in Pennsylvania. More scrutiny stemming from this FDA audit led to everyone re-examining their own vendors, suppliers, and manufacturers. This in turn led to "Aha!" moments at certain vendors who weren't following the specifications, therefore the frequent recalls as the deficiencies were found. I expect this to continue for awhile until control is completely restored, with a relative period of quiet after all deficiencies are settled.
That being said, other companies (and not just pharma companies either) are recalling products too, but since J&J was in the spotlight for their huge recall earlier this year, any recall by them is subject to another big headline. Let's hope that they restore to their glory, because obviously 2010 has been a huge headache for them (ironic that Tylenol gave them a headache rather than cure it).
When will the Mylanta be back on the market ?????? I really really miss it. That is
the only antacid I can take. All others make me sick. I could take it and eat tomatoes and other things with acid and not have any problems. Please put Mylanta back in the stores soon.
Thank you
Dolly