Strict food rituals may send mixed messages, experts warn
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comEating disorders on rise for Orthodox Jewish girls
Seeded on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:26 PM EST (msnbc.com)
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Wow, I can't imagine how hard it must be to live in a community in which there are so many food related rituals and have an eating disorder at the same time. And then possibly not receive the needed support from family and friends to conquer this illness. Challenging isn't even the right word here.
These food rituals have existed for decades, centuries not the eating disorders. These so-called eating rituals have to do with healthy eating. I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist. Not anymore but still follow the eating rituals. I do not have an eating disorder. I am not a size four or obsessive regarding weight. In a special showing the areas of the world with the most centenarians, they only place here in America were the Seventh Day Adventists. They follow closely these food rituals.
What brought eating disorders is the replacement of one form of oppression with another. Barefoot and pregnant was replaced with being a size four. It is not natural. It is as emotionally demanding as the control of depending on a husband for income while being tied to a house full of children.
I agree with much, though perhaps not all, of what Radio Free America points out. Born and raised Roman Catholic, as a child, during Lent, I participated in fasting (one meal a day 3 days a week), and every Friday there was also abstinence from red meat. I grew up very healthy.
And why are Jews picked out as if they are the only group with "eating disorders" which are blamed on "ritualistic" eating? Countless different religions, Jewish, Christian, Islamic and more, have eating regulations. It would be a more useful article if the whole question of eating disorders would not discriminate against the Jews.
When I married a Conservative Jew I studied and followed the moderate Kosher rules, and continued healthy ever since. I have read that ailments like anorexia, bulimia, etc., are certainly not due to ritual eating that has been in place for centuries. These ailments should surely be treated with therapies required by psychological disorders.
There are so many positive behaviors and thought, including self-discipline that these rituals provide, and it annoys me to see "blame" for behavioral disorders made on eating rituals by this self-indulgent society of ours today. Perish the thought we take responsibility for ourselves... but lapse into handy-dandy blaming anything and everything but our own bad judgment or attention-getting drama.
And I wonder who are these unnamed "experts" being quoted so copiously in this article? And what are their qualifications? They cite one case and go off and running. In my experience it is nonsense.
When are we going to become parents again and be there to help, teach, and support our kids appropriately? When are we going to stop making excuses for attention-getting behaviors? Most of all, when are we going to take responsibility for ourselves instead of constantly looking for something to blame... and teach our kids the same?
yeah that's true, Catholics are just as bad. I also have a friend at work who isn't Jewish or Catholic, but probably Jahova Witness or some other form of Christianity, and fasts too.
Well sure. We (single young women) are pushed up against a wall. This focuses on the Orthodox communities, but it's a problem for other denominations, too.
There's no way out. We have to marry, and with marriage rates low, and too many stories of Jewish men who don't want Jewish women. It's all about looks. There are too many kind Jewish women who go unmarried, so it's definitely not about personality.
We starve because it's either that or leaving the community for good.
This proves my point below.
You think ugly and fat people are not part of the community.
Useless piece of flesh.
leave the community for good - your own that is - there is decent life out there
Just like the many branches of Christianity there are many forms of Judaism. Catholics would be lost if they walked into a Quaker service. Its the same with Judaism. I wouldn't be comfortable in an Orthodox Temple.
I do have to say the one thing from a personal experience ; my Jewish family is obsessed with food preparation. Whether it is for a holiday or graduation or losing a first tooth.... My parents are retired and still spend hours in the kitchen cooking together and eating together and then after the eating there is the discussion of the meal and plans to be made on what they will try next time . Oh, and then they rate it! Maybe this happens in all families---it can sometimes drive me a bit nuts.
dirtybleach, you are being suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
I'm not Jewish, I'm 28, never married, where's my husband, lol???
How sad that even the ultra-orthodox want a bone-thin bride. I would think the Jewish people would value health more than appearance, especially a hard to achieve and undesirable appearance such as excessive thinness.
Where is the pressure coming from for a bone-thin bride? From the men? The women in the family?
I thought the ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox shunned the values of the world. My sympathy goes out to young Jewish women who struggle with food-illness.
Skinny people think they are gods of humans.
It's always a quest to be better than the majority.
Even if your always hungry and a biltch.
Anonymous, the impression I got from this article is that the pressure comes from the women in the family *because* it's what's they know the men are looking for. Same as in some Middle Eastern cultures that value fatness and parents send their young daughters to be force-fed - they want their daughters to make the most advantageous match possible, so they try to make them look like what the eligible men want. Sad.
Religion can send a lot of mixed messages to children.. Growing up Catholic, we were also told that our bodies were temples in one breath, and handed sexual/physical shame in the next. I am surprised to learn that Israel has such a high rate of eating disorders..
I was raised Mormon and I am a lesser person because of it.
Religion actually hurts the soul.
It breeds hate and fear.
See!
ledgeroo-I'm not affiliated with any particular religion, but I LOATHE the shame associated with Catholicism, the way kids are taught that masturbation is a sin, that it's gross and dirty and shameful, and that sex is shameful. The way they're taught that if they masturbate, have premarital sex, or don't have sex to reproduce only......and if they do any of this, that they've somehow desecrated their bodies. The reason masturbation is so frowned upon is because it doesn't produce babies. None of it is shameful, and it should be a person's choice if they masturbate or have sex. They shouldn't let their religion dictate what goes on with their bodies, as long as their responsible about it, especially when it comes to sex.
And you know so much about it, do you, ledgeroo, isis, and like-minded disgruntled commenters? Well I have five kids and it was wonderful... get off the bigotry trips. I wouldn’t trade my values for yours any day of the week...
Sex without commitment is nothing but lust and you obviously do not know what real love-making is. I do not know where you came up with your misinformation but I went to Catholic schools from pre-school through high school in Chicago, and we were taught nothing like that. Go back to your How-To-Manuals-of-Human-Copulation and get your jollies. They are so transient it’s pathetic.
Boy, are you missing something.
You think what you describe is “responsible”? That is your idea of freedom? Freedom is NOT Free. Using another human being for a meaningless exercise is nothing but abuse. Using yourself shows you have no respect for yourself.
Love and loving are what is responsible they are as well true joy and beauty. Sex? It’s barely two-dimensional in comparison and “responsibility” plays no part in it; it is the most irresponsible behavior of all. Ye gods, you do not even know what you are missing. And you are too ignorant to learn.
You are caught up in a pathetically brief rush of experience, just as the lower orders of vertebrates do to produce young. But, o my, producing young couldn’t be further from your thoughts, and personally, I thank whatever powers that be for that. The thought of perpetuating zombies like yourselves is abhorrent.
I feel sorry for you. You have nothing.
HEY SECOND SIGHT...
delusional maybe?
a. check in on your children to see if THEY are happy. It's not about you anymore.
b. Call those that disagree with your Virgin Mary delusions of grandeur/perfect wife and mother syndrome- disgruntled? Everyone here has a right to an opinion so GET OFF your High Horse.
c. I wouldnt be surprised if your husband is out cheating on you or worse. Check your stable mary before you try to lecture others.
lastly..you sound like a real bitch
@Second Sight- HOW DARE YOU. How dare you say that I have no self respect, and that I lust over every man I see. How dare you say that I'm using myself, or using and abusing anyone else. I would never do that. If I wanted to have sex with somebody, it wouldn't be casual, and for you to assume that about me is stupid, narrow minded, judgemental, and frankly, your whole post makes you sound like a fanatic. I don't have misinformation, you do. You're an uptight little Catholic girl. I'm not uptight, not religious, and therefore, am NOT ashamed of my sexual desires, like you were taught. I'm not lustful, either. I respect myself enough to wait to have sex until I'm ready, so SHUT THE @!$%# UP about self respect. I'm not ignorant, not caught up in anything, not a "zombie" (but you're a religious mind controlled bitch) For your information I'm a VIRGIN. Wrap your uptight little head around that. I feel sorry for YOU. You're uptight, and narrow minded, unwilling to listen to anyone else's views on sex. And I never said you should have sex without commitment, but marriage shouldn't be the only commitment that counts. If you believe that, then you obviously let religion dictate your life. I bet your family can't stand you.
@Emilio-I agree with everything you said, thanks for the help.
How delicious it is to read your posts Emelia et al, particularly the outrage of Isis who cannot even read accurately and totally misquotes me. What an interesting insight it provides. btw, Isis, the word "judgmental" is not spelled with an "e" in the middle of it. Your "assumptions" are as valid as your spelling.
To the ranters and ravers in this thread who find my views of achieving self-discipline in life unacceptable and who defend their personal gratifications to the nth degree ...
“The most subtle, most pervasive, and the blindest of bigotries is that of the self-indulgent unable to achieve a modicum of self-discipline.” (a statement from the athiests' web pages) I quote it to exemplify the cross-section of idealism for any who take the trouble to educate themselves.
There is wisdom in our culture perhaps unknown to you ... so let me quote Shakespeare (have you heard of him?) who perfectly describes your assertions in Macbeth ...
Out, out, brief candle!
[Your] life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing." — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28
@Second Sight-you have your views, and I have mine. So I had ONE word spelled wrong. If you want to be a spelling and grammar nazi, go teach a writing class, stop making such a big deal. Oh, and you spelled Emilio wrong, you can't spell, you can't spell!! Irritating, huh? I don't think your self discipline views are unnacceptable, but not everyone has to have the same views you do. Most independent people choose what they want to do with their own bodies, and let no one shun or shame them for it. If they get an STD, or get pregnant, or get their heartbroken from it, well they can deal with that, but it's THEIR choice, and NOT your place to call them lustful. It is NOT your place to call them abusive. ABUSE WOULD BE RAPE, OR MOLESTATION. The way I see it, marriage is NOT the only commitment. Boyfriends and girlfriends can make love, and have an emotional commitment and bond. I admire that. If you're calling me an idiot, have the guts to do it outside of a Shakespeare quote.
Emilio's right. Get off your high horse.
It sounds like we should all listen to each other and perhaps step out of some preconceived notions. I hear people saying to others that they WERE taught such and such (ie, all Catholics taught masturbation is a sin) while the others insist that they were not taught that (not all Catholics were taught that apparently) but the point is lost as insults fly back and forth. OK. Some were taught one thing and some another. Perhaps some have a stereotyped idea of what a certain group teaches that not all in that group actually teach-on both sides. It also sounds like each side has its own definition of certain terms like "abuse." This makes it hard to have a pleasant discussion.
I'm not Catholic so I can't address what they teach, but I'm sure it varies somewhat. No doubt the beliefs of non-Catholics vary widely. If we can stop stereotyping and truly listen to each other, I think our discussions would be much more productive. And we all make typos on here, so that really does not add or detract from one's point in my mind.
*I prepare for both to jump on me now*
Since we are wondering about Jewish attitudes beyond food I thought that this link may be informative. Titled "Sex in Judaism"
http://www.blip.tv/file/4473634
I grew up in an Orthodox household, and as time went on, I actually wondered if some Jewish laws, such as Kashrut (Kosher laws), family purity, and others actually came about because of a propensity towards OCD?
Comment # 6 deleted. Awful reference to the holocaust.
iPan, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
This story is full of misunderstandings about modern Judaism. Conservative Judaism is very different in terms of practice than ultra-Orthodox Judaism, so it's poor reporting and just plain silly to use a Conservative Jewish woman's experience as the only actual anecdote.
Second, fasting is not a common occurrence in Judaism, so it's silly to ascribe a rise in eating disorders to its prevalence. There are two major fast holidays (Yom Kippur and Tisha B'Av) in which people fast for a single sundown to sundown. There are five other minor fast holidays in which people fast morning to sundown scattered throughout the year. This is not something that dominates a person's life and many other religions have holy days that involve fasting.
Third, kashrut is no more of a food ritual than vegetarianism! It's just a set of laws for what foods you can eat. When you grow up with it, it's no big deal at all. I've never missed any of the forbidden foods because I have no idea what they taste like. Kashrut is even less of an issue for the ultra-Orthodox that tend to live in communities with other ultra-Orthodox because (at least in my experience) the greatest issues with kashrut come as a kid dealing with friends who don't understand things like why you can't eat at their McDonalds birthday party.
Finally, the claim that eating disorders are on the rise because religious communities are more accepting of it than smoking or drinking is probably true, but only because an eating disorder is easier to hide than a smoking or drinking addiction. While drinking to excess is not encouraged (except on Purim!), wine is an important part of Jewish spiritual observance. We make kiddush with wine as part of the meals every Shabbos, and the Passover seder involves drinking four cups of wine. I think the author of this article may have confused Judaism with Islam or certain forms of fundamentalist Christianity.
Miriam, I agree with you. While there is SOME truth with SOME orthodox families hiding illnesses, it is not the case in all orthodox families. And not at all in conservative, at least no more so than any other religion. I actually embrace fasting as a spiritual and physical cleansing process - and I am not close to thin. It's funny how people wonder how we keep kosher. As you said, it's like someone being a vegetarian, someone who has a food allergy, etc. If you are brought up kosher, it is not thought of as a hardship. For me it's a sense of pride.
Miriam, thanks for saying everything I wanted to say about this article. It was very presumptuous for the most part. Glad that it's in the open though. As an orthodox women, I've known about this issue for years now.
You make an interesting point about not blaming religion for the disorders but the jab you make at Islam and Christianity at the end is totally unnecessary and a bit harsh.
Having married into a Jewish family, I will say that I would probably develop an eating disorder too if I had to eat that kosher dreck every day.
Let's do chinese tonight!
I would think that if you married into a Jewish family, you would have learned what Kosher means. It's merely the rules surrounding what and when certain foods can be eaten (i.e., no dairy and meat together and no pork) or the method of raising meat for food, i.e., Koshering food (brine and blessings). It isn't a type of cuisine.
There is even Kosher Chinese, Italian, etc. So your comment about dreck has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's Kosher or not but more likely says something about the chef.
I'm with Jennj99738 on this one, your comment just makes you sound ignorant!
Could you possibly be more rude? Equating one's traditional food with a serious mental disorder is entirely out of line. It's not Kosher food that sucks, it's your attitude.
I agree, John/ORD - you are rude! why did you marry into a Jewish family if you are so antisemitic?
Everything "ultra" is usually bad . Try to stay moderate.
Go to New York City. Its hard to find a skinny Jew anywhere.
It is sad that as knowledgable as we have become as a society that we still let social stigma/tradition rule over health. What happened to the importance of being a good, honorable person? Does that account for anything anymore?
It does if you are a Klingon. Somethings never change and never will .
I suppose the male are svelte just like the brides to be? A perfect "nation/religion" doesn't that sound oh so familiar? Who else wanted a 'perfect race way back?'
It's sad......
I was thinking the same thing....
The author of this article mixed apples and oranges. The subject of her article was a concervative jew with problems and an eating disorder, much different than the orthodox jewish girls.
Eating disorders among orthodox jewish girls have nothing to do with the laws of keeping kosher or observing Jewish fast days. They have everything to do with the demand from the young men's religious schools demanding that the girls are size "0." There was a song bantered around that ended with "zero-you're my hero." The first question teachers and school heads ask when looking or are asked about a match for a boy, is what size is the girl and what does she look like. Because the number of boys seems to be less than the number of girls, girls feel desperate and don't eat to be that size 0. Obviously this is wrong, but no one says or does anything for fear that they or their daughters won't make a match.
As an Orthodox Jew, I can validate your points 100%.
Eating disorders in Judaism has absolutely zero to do with any Jewish rituals, laws, or fasting requirements. This is just a case of very poor reporting on MSNBC's fault.
There are issues with anorexia in the Jewish community though, and it's because Orthodox girls are considered undesirable for marriage if theyre not thin. I don't see a problem with promoting healthy lifestyles, and I also don't see a problem with any specific guys wanting to date skinner girls (who you date is your choice).
But girls are encouraged to be size 0s, which isnt about healthy lifestyles as much as it's about an obsession with total skinniness (for lack of a better term). It's an issue, and often Rabbis are too willing to sweep these types of issues under the rug rather than deal with them.
N-529260,
"Eating disorders in Judaism has absolutely zero to do with any Jewish rituals, laws, or fasting requirements. This is just a case of very poor reporting on MSNBC's fault."-
Actually, this has less to do with MSNBC's(Associated Press's) "poor reporting", and much more to do with your reading deficiency. The mention of Kosher was merely a contextual tie-in, and an apt one at that. The article specifically states these rituals may only exacerbate the problem or perhaps psychologically condition formative young girls to tolerate the restrictive modes imposed by the disorder. Translation: The fasting requirements are not the impetus for the eating disorder, but rather behavioral training for those who are susceptible to the actual causes. Curiously, immediately after taking great umbrage with the suggestion that Jewish Laws may somehow compel impressionable young women into a disordered state, you volunteer an indictment on Jewish culture instead.
This story is sad...food is about the only thing men can put in a Jewish girl's mouth in order to shut her up.
i live in israel. this doesnt surprise me. israeli women are the most vain people on the planet, in addition to being extremely materialistic. ...and in all honesty, its probably less "anorexia" and more "food is just too expensive." the cost of living here is ridiculously too high. many would call me "anorexic" just because towards the end of the month, when i run out of money, i cannot eat.
highlighting the abuse,
while neglecting the benefits of the use of proper fasting,
is ridiculous.
It's not something done on a regular basis like the abuse this article leads off with. A check with a doctor is recommended first for one. On a related note many diagnosis, require a 24 hour fast before tests are administered.
The Judeo /Christian fast was and is for many things which were not to be done often,
1. Cleansing
2. Submission, humility, repentance before God.
3. Before making Supplication before God on matters of extreme importance.
This article begins with a diatribe more aptly directed towards the disorder anorexia. I refused to read the whole thing, as a result, of lines crossing into agenda journalism.
You are right, mtsr1... However, I did read the entire article, and was appalled by its idiocy.
btw... Journalism is my background and I would not call this nonsense to be "Journalism" in any way. The writer is incompetent, and her Opinion Piece (yes, that is all it is in the tabloid style) is full of flawed genralizations and promotes asinine bigotry. Her attempt at sensationalism falls flat with thoughtful folks...
rofl... of course, it also reveals the o so "free" persons who foisted themselves into an off-subject discussion defending promiscuity, and attempting to apply the bigot's usual device of saying everyone unlike them is wrong.
But then, being a bigot is the survival tool of the inept.
Here is an excellent article from one of the biggest Orthodox websites about the issue:
http://www.aish.com/f/p/48925557.html
I marry a Jewish lady I prepare Kosher food Italian Stile. my children and my wife and all my jewish relative don't mind eating my Kosher Italian mediterranean coking, in fact the loved. I am much healthy and for the past 23 years I never Had food poisoning,. in the first 46 years of my life I had food poisoning app. 23 times and 2 times being near dead from shell fish and spoiled meat..
sad to hear that about food poison with shell fish. Unless you have steady diet of shell fish, some get stomach upset eating them. So, only eat only when you see it alive before they clean and cook it. This includes clams, etc. If you still have stomach upset then you maybe allergic, or if you have bad reaction healthwise, you are allergic.. There are people who are allergic to shellfish including shrimp, etc. sad for them, more for me to eat. boo har har.
suffering from anorexia + religion + lead to poor health = cuckoo
same story, different people and their religion. Unfortunately, why is this on the rise in jewish folks? What about islams or catholics? I think catholics fast at least one day in a year, just not sure what day...
delusional maybe?
a. check in on your children to see if THEY are happy. It's not about you anymore.
b. Call those that disagree with your Virgin Mary delusions of grandeur/perfect wife and mother syndrome- disgruntled? Everyone here has a right to an opinion so GET OFF your High Horse.
c. I wouldnt be surprised if your husband is out cheating on you or worse. Check your stable mary before you try to lecture others.
lastly..you sound like a real bitch
A lot of extreme religious rules are about being Obsessive Compulsive. Needing 2 separate sets of dishes & utensils? Not being able to turn a light on during Shabbat? It's a breeding ground for mental illness.
Rude, rude, rude, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Could it be that eating disorders are from the constant stress of impending terrorist attacks rather than superficial American priorities of being fashionably thin?
Maybe there are extremely thin orthodox women because they have large families and the cost of food is exorbitant?
Maybe orthodox women don't own cars and walk much more than the average civilian thus keeping their weight down.
I have seen the women in Israel - they on a whole are curvier then western women yet there are less obese.
My ex-husband was jewish. He suffered badly from ADHD and some type of pesonality disorder. He had extreme depression too. I tried to talk to his family about his problems to hopefully get some support in helping him to get help and feel better. His family turned against me terribly, and my ex-husband then took my children away in a major custody dispute. The mental illness in his family is outrageous and he is now harming our children for his own gain. I never knew about this denial of jewish people about their own mental disorders, but I saw it first hand in my ex-husband's family. It is real, and it is very destructive. They do not want to admit any mental problems whatsoever, and they will not seek help in dealing with it. They live in denial and blame unfortunately.
Gentiles do this also, quite often.
Jane, you take your experience with one Jewish family and make it about all "Jewish people?" "They, they, they." Mental illness has always had a stigma in the U.S. and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Denial is nothing new, whether or not is applicable to your situation.
I'd be careful with your generalizations there Ms. Jane-800424. Sorry about your failed marriage, really. I don't want that to happen to anyone. But really, generalizations are simply not okay.
Sincerely,
a very wise, grounded, brilliant Jewish woman from a (holocaust-hurt, but beautiful) and "normal" (even by gentile standards!) family.
I worked for an ultra-Orthodox Jewish woman who refused to eat "regular" Kosher foods fromt he local deli because they were not "Kosher enough". She ate hard boiled eggs at work washed down with Diet Coke ( how the heck is "diet coke" more Kosher than Kosher deli foods???) .
She cut her hair short and wore a wig to "keep her head covered" according to her religious laws, and wore clothing that covered her from head to toe. She was supposed to keep separate from men as well. Sounds like an Islamic woman, doesn't it? That's what happens when religions stay in the dark ages.
And before you rant on me, I'M JEWISH TOO but you'll never see me doing that ridiculous @!$%#. I agree with many posts here, the fundamentalists of *any* religion are prepped for ( or already have) major mental illnesses. While "my people" may not want to discuss it, due to "very close bloodlines", inherited mental illness is a problem among the the conservatives who refuse to marry outside of out own. In fact, genetic testing, counseling is almost routine with new couples to check for any inherent genetic disorders that may be passed on to children. That is a FACT.
Arn't you glad there are no possibility that there will ever be a "morality Police" in Judaism? No Kosher Police. None.
This is good