Just maybe the American people are wising up to the fact that the FDA, and their government can no longer be trusted on anything! We read every week about some drug that was heavily advertised over TV for the past year or so, and told you could not live without it and recommended by the FDA only to be recalled now and some law firm wants you to join a civil action for millions of dollars! Consider that big Pharma made billions on the drug now they will be asked to pay a 20 million penalty.big deal! Mean while how many were permanently crippled,killed or disfigured by the damn drug? Every drug has a side effect, minor to some. lethal to others and the mercury that is in some, a known carcinegin! The body left alone will handle most of it's problems!

Sounds like many of you were not around before polio vaccine, or other communal diseases that have pretty much been eliminated in the USA. Maybe you should take a look around at other locations in the world where they have not been able to obtain the vaccinations we have been offered.

more like too many people are ignorant clutching bibles for healing.

but in reality its more to do with DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO. so u make the kid get it then um gotta go..............

Most Americans are idiots who wouldn't know science if it slapped them in the face and called them Sally.

Are there risks with vaccines? Yes. They're not perfectly safe. But the risk of taking a vaccine is DWARFED by the risk of going through your life unvaccinated. Those who listen to Playboy models and research-faking ex-doctors over actual scientists are placing themselves, their children, and EVERYONE AROUND THEM at risk. Measels is back because of the anti-vaccine movement, and killing children again. If you're arguing against vaccination, if you're convincing people not to get themselves or their children vaccinated, those deaths, and the deaths by other horrible, preventable diseases that are making a comeback because of this pseudoscience-based idiotic movement are on your hands.

You are killing children with your ignorance.

If you read the CDC information on Measels 100% of all the cases are people that where vaccinated for the diease. You can do what you want but I am not putting myself or my children at risk because of the government says so.

Healthcare is supposed to be about helping the sick. It has become an industry hellbent on preventative medicine, which in most cases is a waste of money. I haven't had a flu shot in close to 20 years. I've gotten the flu maybe three times since then. I only take daily vitamins that consist of a powered mixture of fruits and vegetables, and nothing more. If my body was supposed to be immune to a lot of diseases, they wouldn't affect me. However, allowing myself to get sick also builds my immune system so that in the future, I won't NEED to get the vaccinations in my later years.

Renee Johnson, the CDC does not say that every person who has gotten measles has had the vaccine. this outbreak has been well-documented to be primarily in unvaccinated people. people like you place everyone at risk, because there are some people who do not get adequate protection from being vaccinated, and rely on the HEALTH of all of the VACCINATED people around them to stop the spread of this disease. so while you non-vaccinators are sitting around, waiting to let natural selection be practiced on you, you are KILLING innocent people who have tried to do what they needed to be safe and to keep their kids safe. when one of your kids dies from measles, or your son is left permanently sterile from mumps, I am sure you will be so very glad then that you didn't vaccinate!

and for Dr. Pitstick- you chiropractors do no service to either yourself or the greater medical profession when you perpetuate myths that are just unfounded fears fed by pseudo-science. sure, you guys can help relieve some types of structural injuries, but you're not supposed to be practicing medicine. that is outside your scope of practice and you know it!

You are killing children with your ignorance.

Agreed. This 'Doctor' Mark Pitstick has a PhD in chiropractic. He can't even prescribe drugs to people. What he's stating flies in face of my two doctor friends (UW and Johns Hopkins MDs, meaning they're real doctors) and my own education in statistics.

A point by point rebuttal:

Maybe Americans are realizing that vaccination programs are dangerous and a huge cash cow for the pharmaceutical industry.

The first point is entirely wrong, the second point is correct but not by the margins of a blockbuster new drug. Mark here won't be able to produce real evidence that vaccines are dangerous, and by dangerous I mean anymore dangerous than getting into a car in the morning. He'll try to cite some figures but I guarantee you they're bunk.

A child would receive over seventy vaccinations if all of the recommended shots are given. This is a shameful travesty of the very word 'health care.'

No. That is a lie too. He's double/triple counting the same vaccine administered in series.

Many of my patients who receive flu shots get the flu or have other adverse reactions. There are no studies researching the long term side effects of injecting weakened viruses, chemicals and heavy metal preservatives directly into the human body.

While this may be true what he doesn't point out is the effects when people don't immunize their children. Basically they're creating really nice vectors to make mutations with diseases which will then sicken others who either weren't vaccinated as well or their vaccination didn't take.

If we would have taken the advice of people like Mark we would still have smallpox. Thank God there's other people out there like Trailfoot to point out that their policies are ignorant.

Oh, and BTW, if you're this guy Mark:

http://www.radiant101.com/

Stop spreading misinformation so people will buy more of your holistic crap. It was a person like you who told me they had cured their cancer through vitamin intakes, while my father died of cancer in my arms.

Huge Cash Cow?!?!?!? That is a complete lie, up to the point that certain vaccines caused the companies to go out of business. These are for our health, drugs make Big Pharma money not vaccines. People who fear vaccines should look at causation rather than correlation.

DJ-2783102, I refuse my share of the vaccines and offer them to under-priveleged countries. As far as I know, I had the whole nine yards when I was a kid, got everything standard in the "new kid package"(and my kids will get the standard package also). I've never had a flu shot I can remember and can count on one hand the times I was real sick(coughing, hacking, colds) in the past 15 years. I don't wash my hands 20 times a day and beleive what don't kill me will only make me stronger. Add up the amount of vaccines given every year, it's probably not a "huge" cash cow but a big enough one to pay a few bills.

confused - you certainly are confused! Vaccines don't make money for Big Pharma? Like the swine flu vaccine that was produced in mass for a falsely rated pandemic throughout the world? Like the Guardasil vaccine that has been such a non-success story for them that they are now trying to market it as a must for BOYS!! Oh yes ... we need protection from that dreaded anal cancer that is afflicting the world! Wake up already.

Swine flu had the potential to be a horrible thing, and the consequences of not treating it like doing so and being wrong were FAR greater than the consequences of treating it like a deadly pandemic and being wrong.

Did any of you know the best and most longterm way to develop immunities to illnesses is? Not vaccines, but by allowing ourselves to catch things and recover. It's basic health. Your body develops immunity by fighting off the infections. Yes, shingles are painful, but are treatable.

And the Dr is right about the number of vaccines children get. It doesn't matter how you slice it. Sure, some of them are split into 3 to 4 mini doses (bc a full dose has been proven deadly), however... they inject foreign chemicals into their bodies each time. There's no doubting that fact. And many of these viruses are no more deadly thatn the side effects of the vaccines. They are however inconvenient. God forbid we have to stay home with sick children and miss work.

I have never had the flu shot, have small children and have never had the flu. My husbands had the flu shot one time and got the flu. Other than that, he has only had it one other time. (And he had to miss work, but the world didn't come to an end.)

Wake up... we are the guinea pigs here. PETA keeps scientists from testing on animals, but who protects us? And if there is any doubt about this, simply look at how many drugs have been put on the market (many for things other than what they originally were designed for) only to be pulled from the market after discovering they have terrible side effects. If you need an example look at Guardasil. It causes major nerve damage to young girls. Why? Why take that risk?

And for those of you with personal issues with this Dr, I'm sorry. The person with the comment about clutching the Bible for healing. The Bible doesn't heal. God does. However, you also have to use common sense. Treating cancer with vitamins and suppliments is obsurd. You have to know that sometimes, in the right setting, medical professionals are needed. But they can't be trusted and unchecked. (ie: the Pediatrician who vaccinated my child early bc he didn't know they state's laws therefore requiring her to need extra vaccines.)

Our bodies are quite complex and were designed to do just what these vaccines do, all without pumping us full of chemicals. The question is, will you allow your body to work correctly, or will you line Big Pharma's pockets (as well as the ins company's, the medical field's and our govt's)? Do you really trust them that much?

"Doctor," take your tinfoil hat off and kindly stop dispensing dangerous nonsense in the form of conspiracy theories. There is very little profit margin in vaccines, the men in the black helicopters aren't trying to control your brain waves through vaccines, and it's not an alien plot. Vaccines save lives, full stop. Get your children vaccinated...because of moron parents who get their health info from the Internet (and people like our good "doctor"), rates of measles, mumps and rubella are spiking, and these diseases are once again killing children.

The only way vaccines could line the pockets of the insurance companies is if they work - if they don't, insurance is paying for something and not getting anything in return. They fund vaccines because vaccinating you for a disease is cheaper for them than treating it if you catch it.

"There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution."~Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961

Quoting a sci-fi writer for your science? Really?

Dude, you completely missed the point, which is that what Aldous Huxley wrote is coming true today.

confused - you certainly are confused! Vaccines don't make money for Big Pharma? Like the swine flu vaccine that was produced in mass for a falsely rated pandemic throughout the world? Like the Guardasil vaccine that has been such a non-success story for them that they are now trying to market it as a must for BOYS!! Oh yes ... we need protection from that dreaded anal cancer that is afflicting the world! Wake up already.

Ignorant statements like this irk me. Obviously you weren't around in 1918 when the "Spanish flu" did turn into a pandemic & kill millions worldwide. All it takes is a single pandemic to make vaccine believers out of ppl. It's probably why your own parents were urged by relatives who lived thru that to make sure you were kept safe from killer diseases like lockjaw (tetanus), diptheria, smallpox, polio, whooping cough (pertussis), measles. And it's the anti-vaccination crowd who's contributing to the high infant mortality rate in the US. If you prefer to risk seeing your own children die in agony from preventable diseases as our ancestors had no choice but to watch, keep your kids away from everyone else's & hope they never step on that proverbial rusty nail. Lockjaw's not a pretty way to go.

If you knew anything about HPV you'd also know it's transmitted via sexual contact just like herpes or any other STD. Boys may not have a cervix, but they most certainly are carriers of HPV & can pass it along to your daughters.

And I'm sure Farrah Fawcett & others similarly afflicated would've run to get a vaccine for anal cancer. Simply b/c it's rare doesn't mean your kids are going to beat the odds.

Jeez, have you learned to make fire yet?

vaccines are not a cash cow at all, that is why there are so few manufacturers in the US.

'sup doc?

#1.13 perhaps. Yet thousands of swine flu vaccines ended up in the trash - fact.

For those who think poor wittle ole pharmaceutical companies don't make money on vaccines.

Novartis Profit Rises on Pandemic Flu Vaccine Sales (Update5)

Vaccine Industry Growing Amid Increased Funding, Higher Profits

Sanofi’s Profit Rises on Vaccine Sales

Human Vaccines Market to Reach $19.2 Billion by 2010, According to New Report by Global Industry Analysts, Inc.

So let's lay this to rest once and for all. Pharma companies don't make money on vaccines is a myth.

Apparently people that are against vaccines don't realize that for them to give you an immunity to said disease that the vaccine has to be the disease. Usually the vaccine is a smaller dose than what you'd contract normally of the living virus/bacteria so that your body knows how to fight it. Otherwise it is safely inactive sample of that disease or made from parts of the disease.

Immunity only needs the first step in catching a disease - the introduction of the pathogen into our systems, which is what the vaccines are. Our white-blood cells identify this pathogen and then build the necessary response to it. Also it stores the information of this response for future infections.

The number of vaccination types a standard person would need for just living in America are minuscule. Once you look at traveling and see the recommendation for vaccinations before visiting other countries, it'll be evident that you can easily double what vaccinations you've had by just taking an overseas trip.

Most of the dangers of vaccines lie in one of two areas: actually contracting the disease and the substrate/delivery medium to allow the transmission of a cell that normally would be long dead and decomposed before delivery. Early vaccines had used some toxic and harmful mediums, which have been removed from modern vaccines.

With traveling overseas I'll be more than happy to be going to get a few more vaccinations so I don't become a victim and carrier of other diseases that aren't common in the states.

No money back guarantees if you get the sickness you have been vaccinated against...??? Sounds like money to me..!!! Just say NO..!!

"Most adults don't get the vaccines they need"

Most adults don't "need" vaccines.

The sad thing is that most people don't know that there immune systems are not working "fully" and get "Dis-ease" in there bodies. So we don't need vaccines any way.And this hole argument is not relevant. If the people boosted there immune systems there's nothing to worry about.

When their is a vaccine for death, then I'll take one!!!!!

scar tissue says:

All it takes is a single pandemic to make vaccine believers out of ppl.

The fact is, all it takes is the CDC and greedy pharmaceutical companies knowingly marketing the cure for a FALSE pandemic (aka "cry wolf") for the world to lose trust that they are working in the interests of our health rather than their bottom line. When the real pandemic arrives, why would anyone believe it?

Of course there are vaccines that are essential. That doesn't mean that all of them are. Big Pharma would market a vaccine for sneezing if they could figure out how to make one. Guardasil offers protection for not only a very rare condition, but it is limited protection that only last a short time before another vaccination is needed. That is a recurring dividend for something that is ineffective and has been proven to cause irreversible damage and even death in children.

And it's the anti-vaccination crowd who's contributing to the high infant mortality rate in the US.

Ignorant statements like that are what irk me.

And it's the anti-vaccination crowd who's contributing to the high infant mortality rate in the US.

What a load of unscientific baseless ignorance.

And it's the anti-vaccination crowd who's contributing to the high infant mortality rate in the US.

What a load of unscientific baseless ignorance.

Robert is correct here, with childhood vaccination levels in this country at near highs, it has negligible contribution to the infant mortality rate.

Where the infant mortality rate gets really high is lack of education (on how to care for babies), statistically speaking anyway.

You hit the nail on the head, man.

It is a lean year, for them, too.

You know what happens if you get adult onset chickenpox?

Shingles.

Yeah, really awesome.

Shingles is not just awesome.

Shingles is horrible and is a real ordeal to go through.

Mine is still ongoing after years. There is no cure.

But there is a vaccine against shingles.

Nobody told me about the vaccine!!!

But bicfj, didn't you know that vaccinations are dangerous? I mean, instead of getting shingles you could have gotten autism or become paralyzed or something. *sarcasm*

According to some people here it's some government conspiracy to make the pharmaceutical companies richer.

Try telling that to bicfj.

Ok FATM,

A government conspiracy to make the pharmaceutical companies richer? Wow. You mean the government might not be telling us the truth? Like they were with the guatemalans they were experimenting on? Or the fellows in the tuskegee experiment? They have such a good track record.

We should believe everything we're told, and do exactly what the CDC tells us. We should have gotten our swine flu shot back in 76. The government knows best and is always right. Same for doctors. They've been to medical school and know better than us. They're smart, and only have our best interest in mind. The multibillion dollar pharmaceutical companies are also just interested in making us healthy so we won't need any more of their drugs.

Why bother telling anyone about all of this? It's much easier to just sit back and watch. Take all the vaccines you want. Give them to your kids too. I really don't care. If you're that stupid, then maybe it's best for your genes to be removed from the pool.

Why bother telling anyone about all of this? It's much easier to just sit back and watch. Take all the vaccines you want. Give them to your kids too. I really don't care. If you're that stupid, then maybe it's best for your genes to be removed from the pool.

Wait, so I'm stupid because I think vaccines are necessary? Do you even know how vaccines work man? You know how much MORE money pharma makes on treating diseases than preventing them? You are a very paranoid person.

If I had kids they would be vaccinated as well. I'm not stupid for doing that, because if that were the case the majority of Americans are 'stupid.'

Also, I got all the required vaccines and get a flu shot every year. I haven't been sick in a long, long time. I even got the immunizations necessary before going to Africa...

Still around, still not autistic or paralyzed or anything. Perfectly healthy actually. Oh, and I also didn't pay for any of them because I have great health insurance.

No, we're all total idiots, please tell us how vaccines work. Please tell us what's in vaccines. Do you know what's in all of the vaccines? Or do you just line up with the rest of the sheep and take what you are given? Sorry, but yes, I think that's stupid.

I'm glad that you are in such great health. Congratulations. But how do you know that you wouldn't be in great health if you had not taken all of those shots? How do you know that one day, you will not come down with something like Gulf War Syndrome, which no one can explain?

Yeah, I think I'll just take my chances. You can have mine.

By the way, if you have insurance, you're paying for the vaccines. Maybe not directly, but you are.

It typically isn't fatal, however it is considered serious because of the severe neuralgic pain it inflicts- much more severe than chicken pox. Prognosis is good unless it spreads to the brain, and that may result in nerve damage that causes deafness, damaged/impaired vision, loss of the ability to taste and possibly intractable neurologic pain- just to name a few potential long-term disabilities.

While shingles itself tends not to be a killer, it may cause enough chaos within a person's immune system to open the door for any opportunistic infection, and that could ultimately wind up being the killer. The compromised immune system can not fight the virulent flu, pneumonia, or whatever else could be going around, and there you have it- a death.

Not that I support immunizations- I haven't bothered with any since my parents had me immunized as a baby, not even tetanus for cuts. However, I wouldn't diminish the seriousness of some of these diseases, nor their long-term effects.

its not. its beneficial while being a lazy fat american u can complain about your shingles and thats why u cant work and collect........

Shingles is terrible. Not getting vaccinated and exposing yourself and any immuno-compromised people around you to awful diseases is worse.

LOL - please. we're now vaccinating because of pain? Vaccines are preventative correct? Well here's a dose of prevention. Stop eating food that comes in a box. Eat locally grown organic fruits and vegetables and hormone and anti-biotic grass fed and finished meat and wild caught fish. Don't eat anything but that, get some exercise 4 to 5 days a week and guess what - your immune system will take care of itself.

Americans need to stop being lazy and stop eating all the crap so called food that's available in the big box grocery stores. That'll do more to improve your immune system against all disease than any vaccine will.

Except that vaccines will make you immune to whatever strain of disease it's against.

Shingles isn't "pain." I've never had it (thankfully), but I know people who have. One suffered permanent brain damage from it - lost most of his hearing. Another worked his butt off fifty hours a week when not having an outbreak, and couldn't pull himself off the sofa without falling over from pain-induced vertigo when he was.

I challenge any of you who think shingles is a mild disease to talk to someone who has had it. I've had two relatives go through it and it's excruciatingly painful. Also, one was just over 50 and the other was younger than 50.. so for her there was not even an option for the shot because insurance won't cover it under the recommended age.

Shingles is a terrible nerve disease. 'pain' is the least of the symptoms of shingles. and everyone who had chicken pox as a child is at risk to get it. the virus is still lurking in the large nerves of you body, and if you are one of the many unlucky people in whom it resurges, you are at great risk for permament nerve damage, causing permanent pain, usually described as 'burning' or 'searing'; loss of vision, hearing, and other senses; loss of use in your limbs; and sometimes paralysis or brain damage if the virus manifests in your spinal cord. it is so NOT 'no big deal'.

but there are some people who are crippled by a lack of empathy- you just can't give a sh*t about another human being's problems, because it (whatever it is) has never happened to you. then when it does happen to you, you are typically the one screaming loudest and whining the most about how much you are suffering, and how nobody (in the government, or the doctors, or your company, or whatever) can do enough to help precious you. because you are the kind of person who believes the whole world revolves around you. THAT is what the world is really coming to- people who only think about themselves.

A friend of mine (who is 35) got shingles last year while on a mission trip to Honduras. He eats only organic food and never any red meat. In other words, he does everything "right." Apparently, shingles can be triggered by enormous amounts of stress and anyone who has ever had the chicken pox, has the shingles virus lying dormant in their bodies. My friend is now permanently scarred all over his back, side, and stomach from his shingles outbreak. I can assure that if he had known about the shingles vaccination, he would have gotten it.

Well here's a dose of prevention. Stop eating food that comes in a box. Eat locally grown organic fruits and vegetables and hormone and anti-biotic grass fed and finished meat and wild caught fish. Don't eat anything but that, get some exercise 4 to 5 days a week and guess what - your immune system will take care of itself.

Yes, because everyone who ever got shingles could have prevented it by eating well. Let me guess, the 100 percent proven method to prevent cancer is vitamins right?

Yeah well, my sister's best friends cousin's baby sitter's uncle said..... blah blah.

I've had chicken pox. So has everyone I know. We may get shingles. But probably not. The last flu shot I took was back in the late seventies. I've had the flu a couple of times since then. I'm not taking any more flu shots. The only people I know who got flu last year, took the shot about two weeks before coming down with it.

Other than polio, and maybe a few other really deadly diseases, I see no reason to take vaccines. Unless you live in countries where sanitation is a problem, I don't see why anyone would. You people can quote the CDC and other government agencies all you want. They have lied to us over and over and over, so why would anyone believe them now?

I have an older relative who suffers terribly from shingles--it's practically an annual occurrence. Tell him it's no big deal. Tell my friends and relatives who survived polio (and who lost childhood friends to the disease) that kids today should not be vaccinated against it--By the time they had walked (hobbled!) across the room to say hi to you, you'd have already changed your mind!

That said, only one of my children had the chicken-pox vaccine, because I was too sleep-deprived to register what "varicella" was. The rest got their immunity the old-fashioned way, because the vaccine wasn't common for my oldest, and I decided to wait until they were starting school (by which time they'd been exposed). However, the exposure my oldest had at age 3 (with a light rash) did NOT give him immunity; he missed a week in 6th grade and has some permanent scars, including a few large ones on his face. My youngest was almost 2 at the time--old enough to scratch and too young to stop, and young enough not to have had the vaccine--and he has some scarring that might fade completely, if he's lucky. The other child got a light rash, more than #1's first exposure--the doctor and I can't decide if she needs the vaccine or not.

What really bugs me is, telling young girls and college-aged to get vaccinated against an STD. I could see telling a hooker to do it, but my little girl? I'll tell her about STDs and show her the gruesome photos--same with the boys --when they're old enough. Kids need to be educated so they can be functioning adults, not wrapped in bubble-wrap till they turn 18 and then don't know how to take care of themselves.

Flu shots are for those at risk, not the general public. A single working mom with young children might be considered at risk (financially if nothing else) but the "average" adult doesn't need it.

There's still too much policy made by those with stock in Pharma. Like those new airport scanners.

Shingles is not just awesome.

Shingles is horrible and is a real ordeal to go through.

Mine is still ongoing after years. There is no cure.

But there is a vaccine against shingles.

Nobody told me about the vaccine!!!

LOL - please. we're now vaccinating because of pain?

Spoken like someone's who probably never done more than skin his knee his entire life. Pain is not a joke, sonny. Nerve pain in particular is excruciating. It feels as if you've been dipped in lighter fluid & had some jerk toss a match at you. You literally feel as if you are on fire & it is paralyzing pain where you can't move until it starts to ebb. If you're lucky it's merely an irritating hot tingle & that's with medication to tamp it down. I guarantee you, if someone like you who thinks pain is no big deal experienced nerve pain, you'd be screaming for a pill to lessen it. And I'm not even talking about shingles, which I hope I'll never get as I did have chicken pox as a kid. If you think drs are pushing the shot for this, you're wrong. Did you pay attn to how old you should be b4 it's even covered by ins & how expensive it is if it's not? It just doesn't attack ppl over 60.

I think you can figure out where I'd tell you to put that childish LOL'ing. Didn't your parents ever teach you any manners that you pop online & look for ways to belittle ppl who are in pain?

What really bugs me is, telling young girls and college-aged to get vaccinated against an STD. I could see telling a hooker to do it, but my little girl? I'll tell her about STDs and show her the gruesome photos--same with the boys --when they're old enough. Kids need to be educated so they can be functioning adults, not wrapped in bubble-wrap till they turn 18 and then don't know how to take care of themselves.

All hookers are somebody's little girl.

I'm sure their parents didn't raise them to be one when they grew up. Sometime ppl make bad choices. If you want your daughter to die from them, that's your prerogative.

HPV was also all over the news just months before the first vaccine came out. The virus's role in cervical cancer is very interesting, but the timing of the information and release of the vaccine are suspect.

"when did Shingles become a serious disease?"

My mother was crippled with pain by shingles for six months, spent the whole time on Vicodin to be able to bear the pain. Kent, moronic ignorance is nothing to be proud of. Remember when people used to be ashamed to show ignorance? Now they appear to be positively proud of it.

This is what happens to shingles when too many people vaccinate without knowing what happens. Also vaccination does not equal immunity.

Exposure to varicella boosts immunity to herpes-zoster: implications for mass vaccination against chickenpox

Mass varicella vaccination is expected to cause a major epidemic of herpes-zoster, affecting more than 50% of those aged 10–44 years at the introduction of vaccination.

What really bugs me is, telling young girls and college-aged to get vaccinated against an STD. I could see telling a hooker to do it, but my little girl? I'll tell her about STDs and show her the gruesome photos--same with the boys --when they're old enough. Kids need to be educated so they can be functioning adults, not wrapped in bubble-wrap till they turn 18 and then don't know how to take care of themselves.

Because the side effect is cervic cancer, the sooner you get it the sooner you can forget about it, besides making them immune to an std isn't going to make them start having sex earlier.

To the OP: You have obviously never had shingles... It's a horrible, painful disease. I got it at the age of 33. It feels like thousands of stinging ant bites all over the affected area, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. I still have a scar...

Unfortunately you're going to get sick at some time with something, and I guarantee you that you will die. Life is a gamble. You can eat right, take vitamins, take every vaccine on the planet and still get something. You can also have bad reactions to individual vaccines, or the combination of multiple vaccines. Vaccines may also actually give you the disease. There are no guarantees in life.

But just because someone is a doctor or a government agent does not make them right or even truthful. Government employees tend to retire with healthy retirement packages and go to work for companies that they know. Drug companies are in business to make profits, not to make you healthy. Is this a conspiracy? Maybe. Or is this just how it works.

Kent...

You have never had a pain that won't go away. If you had a pain that kept you from even moving, let me tell you, you would be begging for anything to stop it. You would become addicted to a narcotic, you would be begging to die, you would be wishing that you had gotten that vaccine for pain you mentioned above.

It is not at all LOL.

I am anxious to see the result on our military service personnel with the palethora of shots they"HAVE TO"take and many for things that do not work like anthrax and it's constant changes? When you mix something with something else it becomes something completely new and there were no test for that unseen product of the money maker drug companies! Look at the unexplained symtoms of our service people that never occured in any other war?

cuz military personal being exposed to these diseases in third world countries should not be an issue and they shouldnt be forced to be able to withstand exposure to them..... grats on being brainless

The deadliest epidemic in the history of the world was influenza. A vaccine at the time would have saved millions of lives.

They want you to get your flu shot not to keep you from getting the sniffles, but to keep you from KILLING THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU with a disease that's known to evolve quickly. The less people who are at risk of catching a given year's flu, the less chance those viruses have of changing into something that ravages the world the way the 1918 pandemic did.

So all the people who die every year from complications of influenze "didn't really need" to get vaccinated? You have so far been unaffected by influenza, so apparently that is as valid as scientific proof in your eyes.

People need to learn just how useless personal experience is to science, particularly when that experience is "it didn't happen" or "something happened after something else."

Learn to understand a scientific paper, and the world will open up before you.

Also, vaccines work.

Studies are beginning to come out showing that kids exposed to dirt when they're younger have stronger immune systems than kids who were kept wrapped up in a plastic bubble or exposed to a multitude of unnecessary antibiotics (note: I didn't say they were ALL unnecessary).

If all double blind placebo studies listed their bias then I would agree with you Trailfoot, but you never know where the money is coming from these days. Even Universities have large endowments from big pharma so I don't tend to buy into those studies either.

Science used to have the element of observation. A good Doctor could observe a patient or population over twenty years and he could tell you about their diseases and what worked for them and what didn't. Science has now replaced any critical thought with methodology that seems to serve big business. My observation.

I'll stick to treating my body well and if I do come down with some disease like shingles - I'm betting my body will handle it just fine.

In addition: if we're truly going to be buying in to herd immunity because we want to keep the masses safe then we need some evidence from the FDA. I would recommend the FDA start attacking the food in the grocery store if they truly want me to believe that they're approving vaccinations to save people from dying. The food in the grocery store will kill you faster than most of these diseases.

Part of Public Health looks at the cost to the American Worker Productivity. They want kids to get shots so that Mom doesn't have to stay home from work. No thanks - Mom's TLC worked for thousands of years before we had vaccines for common mostly non-life threatening diseases. I think that'll work just fine.

Polio, Meningitis, Tetanus - you bet ya - those are all vaccines that are valid. Measles Mumps Rubella - How much is that vaccine costing? how many people are we keeping from some life long complication or death? Sorry, but when I do that math the winning column is survival of the fittest.

Observation isn't as good as actual studies. That's just fact - it's how science works. A good large-scale double-blind study will tell you more than fifty years of observing a patient any day of the week.

Your opposition to these studies reeks of anti-intellectualism. Your "betting" your body will handle a disease just fine instead of reading studies and learning the truth of the world does so even more.

My grandfather's entire immediate family was killed in the 1918 flu pandemic. Mother, father, brother, sisters, all of them dead along with several other close relatives. A few years later he contracted polio which left him disabled for the rest of his life. My grandfather's life would have been completely different (and for the better!) if he and his family had had access to these "completely useless" vaccines. People don't know just how good they have it these days.

Merianya - didn't say you shouldn't get a polio vaccine - I question many of the others that are for less severe diseases.

Kent -

You may have a valid point when the vaccine is more to treat a nuisance condition that a life threatening or life altering one. But any time an article comes out about vaccines, the kooks come out of the woodwork that think all vaccines are bad. So this arguement isn't really completely about the article in question.

Still, HPV kills, and Hepatitis is no joke and perhaps shingles are perhaps a serious enough problem for older people to warrant protecting against it. The article said the the shingles one was recommended after 60 - long after the speculation about autism links is irrelevent.

It is true that many vaccines are an extremely good idea to take but the flu vaccine may not be completely necessary, note that I did not state that it was useless. I type this due to the evolving state of the flu. When the vaccine does not contain the right parts of the right virus then the medical value is questionable, but to those who say that a person has a stronger immune system without vaccines is shot down in this reason, the flu changes every year, a immune system can destory diseases only if they have been already caught, complete the puzzle.

Kent,

And what about the flu? The original poster in this thread seems to think that the flu is just some harmless little thing that doesn't really hurt anyone. I was pointing out that the flu can *kill* and can do so in large numbers, such as my grandfather's entire family. Even today, people die every year right here in the US from the flu. Other diseases like measles are making a comeback and killing children because they've stopped getting their vaccines. I'm not sure how you define what are the "less severe diseases" but I figure anything that has a good chance of killing an otherwise healthy person is pretty dang serious.

I got the flu shot when they were administering them in my office. The two people in the office who didn't get the shot got the flu.

So by your logic, it would have been better to get the flu and miss a week of work rather than just get the shot and have that week to work disease free.

The next time you travel to Africa, remember to catch all the diseases you can so your immune system can work it through your system. I'll stick to the vaccinations thank you very much.

I think ALL vaccines are "bad" and I am not a "kook" thankyou!

The Amish do not experience autism, polio, rubella, measles or any of the learning disabilities such ADD that plague the mainstream society. The Amish live in a society that consists of outdated technologies and ideals, by contemporary standards. Their diet consists of eating organic, fresh, locally-grown produce, and of course, they do not follow the established vaccination routines. To the dismay of the mainstream media and the medical establishment, this has resulted in a healthier people, that are void of all of our chronic diseases. Heart disease, cancer, and diabetes are virtually non-existent in Amish villages. Equally non-existent are modern, chemically-engineered medicines, enhanced (chemically-engineered) foods, G.M.O. foods, and of course, vaccines. How is it that those who are without the "miracles" of modern orthodox medicine are healthier? The truth about health, medicine, and how they both relate to the Amish is becoming an embarrassment to some rather powerful people.

The Amish do in fact experience these things. They just don't diagnose it because they don't believe in modern medicine.

The strong correlation between vaccinations and autism is absolutely undeniable, unless you work for the medical establishment (of course), the government, the FDA or the mainstream media. Proponents of the status-quo claim that the Amish obviously have a special super gene that makes them immune to autism. (BALONEY) They pathetically try to rationalize that autism is some type of genetic failure (i.e. God's fault). This truly is F.D.A. and A.M.A. science in all its shining glory. Vaccine proponents are willing to espouse any ridiculous explanation, so long as they do not have to accept that their entire industry of vaccinations is causing chronic disease including many types of cancer, as well as autism for 1 in every 100 children now!

The Amish are constantly harassed by health officials, who attempt to convince them to vaccinate their children. Whilst most Amish still refuse to vaccinate, a small minority are beginning to succumb to the scare tactics. This continues despite the fact that health officials actually have no legal right to visit peoples' homes and harass them into accepting these poisons. As more of the Amish vaccinate, the autism rates in their community will rise. Fortunately, the majority of the Amish still contend that vaccinations are against God's will, which interestingly enough, does indeed seem to be bringing about blessings on their children. When the Amish are simply left alone, to live free of chemical toxins found in our medicines and dead "pasteurized" (nutrient deficient) foods, they are not plagued with diseases, learning disabilities, or autism. They are categorically more intelligent, with the exception of advanced (college-level) writing skills, which is explainable by the fact that English is not their primary language. Could it be those same Amish 'super genes' at work again? Society could learn greatly from their example, if we would only stop allowing ourselves and our children to be poisoned on a routine basis.

Kooks don't think they are kooks.

As more of the Amish vaccinate, the autism rates in their community will rise.

Prove it. The last guy who did a study concluding this, Andrew Wakefield, published a study that couldn't be reproduced. As a result in the UK vaccination levels went down, and 2 children died from measles. You heard me right, DIED FROM MEASLES. The UK stripped him from the medical register this year.

So yeah, keep pushing your ideas. These ideas cause people to die, thanks a lot!

And BTW, Lynn D. you ever think maybe the reason why the Amish don't get the diseases as frequently because they aren't exposed to as many people as say someone living in NYC?

To me this sounds more plausible than vaccination = poison. I've had every single vaccination required of me since I was a child and I am perfectly healthy.

Really? don't be so sure sunshine.

Good one, charls. She probably wouldn't, once she sees how huge the needles are for that & understands how many of them she's going to have to get & where they're going to stick them. She'll just get some other kook to lay hands on her.

Polio, Meningitis, Tetanus - you bet ya - those are all vaccines that are valid. Measles Mumps Rubella - How much is that vaccine costing? how many people are we keeping from some life long complication or death? Sorry, but when I do that math the winning column is survival of the fittest.

Me me me me me, it's all about you, Kent, isn't it? Except apparently when it comes to reading comprehension.

My mother is legally blind b/c she had measles at age 6 in the 1940s b4 there was a vaccine available. Yes, you can get measles in your eyes & she's living proof of it, if you non-believers want to talk personal experience as criteria for not getting vaccinated. The lenses in her glasses are so thick it's a wonder they don't fall out of the frames.

Mumps has been proven to cause sterility in males, so those of you who have just sons & don't care to have grandchildren, there's your ans, instant birth control applied via parental negligence. I'm sure your sons' unsuspecting wives will thank you for taking away their right to have a child w/ their husbands if they want.

I had rubella, what we used to call "German measles", 3x myself as a kid. Getting a disease once does not confer immunity. Keep your unvaccinated darlings away from all women of childbearing age, as exposure to rubella can cause crippling defects to a developing fetus. I'd hazard the same ppl who think "vaccinations cause autism"....then why aren't there huge numbers of autistic adults among the age grp that were the true "guinea pigs" for the 1st vaccinations?....would shriek if a pregnant women wanted to abort a fetus damaged by a case of rubella, caused by your kid whom you didn't vaccinate b/c you're not a kook.

It's not all about you. It's about how your stupidity impacts ppl around you.

I'm so sick of this rampant case of self-entitlement to do whatever the hell you please. Maybe someday there'll be a mandatory vaccine for that.

I'm so sick of this rampant case of self-entitlement to do whatever the hell you please. Maybe someday there'll be a mandatory vaccine for that.

Thank you. That's what most of these 'I'm not a kooks' fail to comprehend. It's not about you, it's about public health and having a society where we don't have to fight these diseases.

Lynn D... did you pull that information out of your ass ? You must have. I've found PLENTY of data that proves you absolutely WRONG.

Polio: There was an outbreak of polio in 1979 among Amish in Pennsylvania, Iowa, Wisconsin Missouri and Canada. The North American population of Amish was essentially unvaccinated against polio at the time. The spread of the disease was halted by an emergency vaccination campaign. This was the last significant outbreak of the disease in the U.S.

Measles outbreaks among the Amish

http://www.jstor.org/pss/30119502

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/4/e60

Several outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases were described previously among undervaccinated Amish communities, including polio, rubella, and measles.^8-11 In the United States, several communities or groups do not vaccinate their children against many preventable childhood diseases, including Hib, some for religious or philosophical reasons.^12,13 Although vaccination is not prohibited by Amish religious doctrine and several Amish communities have participated in mass vaccination campaigns after outbreaks, levels of vaccination for routine childhood vaccines remain low in many Amish communities.^8,14,15 In the course of investigating the cluster of Hib disease among Amish children in Pennsylvania, we examined factors that might explain the unusually high number of Hib cases in this population, including Hib vaccination levels, pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) patterns of causative strains, and prevalence of Hib carriage.

The Amish are MORE susceptible to communicable diseases because they live in large families, small communities and because they are already at risk for disease, genetic and otherwise because of inbreeding.

Lynn, typing in bold doesn't make what you write stop being moronic nonsense, which it is. The Amish get all those diseases, and I challenge you to find sources that prove they don't. I won't hold my breath.

Trailfoot:

A good large-scale double-blind study will tell you more than fifty years of observing a patient any day of the week.

Then you should talk to someone about drafting some good ones up for the influenza vaccine

These review of the literature don't bode so well for people who "believe" in the flu vaccine.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/o/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD004876/frame.html

Due to the poor quality of the available evidence, any conclusions regarding the effects of influenza vaccines for people aged 65 years or older cannot be drawn.

Vaccines for preventing influenza in people with asthma

Few trials have been carried out in a way that tests whether asthma attacks following influenza infection (as opposed to following the vaccination) are significantly reduced by having influenza vaccination, so uncertainty remains in terms of how much difference vaccination makes to people with asthma. The included studies suggest that the vaccine against influenza is unlikely to precipitate asthma attacks immediately after the vaccine is used.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/o/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD005187/frame.html

Influenza vaccination for healthcare workers who work with the elderly

We conclude that there is no evidence that only vaccinating healthcare workers prevents laboratory-proven influenza, pneumonia, and death from pneumonia in elderly residents in long-term care facilities.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/o/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD004879/frame.html

Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children

The review authors found that in children aged from two years, nasal spray vaccines made from weakened influenza viruses were better at preventing illness caused by the influenza virus (82% of illnesses were prevented) than injected vaccines made from the killed virus (59%). Neither type was particularly good at preventing 'flu-like illness' caused by other types of viruses (33% and 36% respectively). In children under the age of two, the efficacy of inactivated vaccine was similar to placebo. It was not possible to analyse the safety of vaccines from the studies due to the lack of standardisation in the information given but very little information was found on the safety of inactivated vaccines, the most commonly used vaccine, in young children.

Norm, I am a veteran of Desert Storm and a recipient of the "cocktail" of vaccines, including anthrax and botulism vaccines. Along with other medicines we were given to ward off effects of nerve agents, my body has been a complete wreck for the last 20 years. Joint and muscle pain that varies in intensity and hits all joints, swelling, chronic fatigue along with intestinal problems. My problems are so bad that I am disabled. I am in my fifties. I will NEVER take an other vaccine again even if they develop one for immortality.

For those that think autism is caused by vaccines, I know a kid who with autism who was not vaccinated... They actually think that it may be caused by pesticides from not washing fruits and vegetables properly

Learn to understand a scientific paper, and the world will open up before you.

Yes, You'll be able to see the corruption of science right in front of your eyes.

And if you stop condescending people be acting like you "know" science and they don't therefore they are stupid, then maybe, just maybe you'll be better at influencing people.

Factofthematter:

Prove it. The last guy who did a study concluding this, Andrew Wakefield, published a study that couldn't be reproduced. As a result in the UK vaccination levels went down, and 2 children died from measles. You heard me right, DIED FROM MEASLES. The UK stripped him from the medical register this year.

So yeah, keep pushing your ideas. These ideas cause people to die, thanks a lot!

Before you get all huffy puffy you need to understand the facts. Emotional diatribes don't help your cause if you're supposedly speaking from the side of objective science.

If you read Wakefield's paper you would see that it didn't make any conclusions. It was a case series report.

You might also want to know that in the 10 years prior to Wakefield's paper that more children died of measles than in the 10 years after. The facts conflict with your assumption that children died as a result of his paper. You should at least have brought some evidence that showed more children died from measles after his paper.

More than likely you're just repeating something you've heard somewhere else and it fit with your belief system.

You might also want to know that in the 10 years prior to Wakefield's paper that more children died of measles than in the 10 years after.

I suppose those are directly correlated then, instead of, oh, I don't know, a downward trend independent of his paper?

Also, I did read Andrew Wakefield's paper, as I studied statistics at university with an emphasis on drug efficacy:

"Findings: Onset of behavioural symptoms was associated, by the parents, with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination in eight of the 12 children, with measles infection in one child, and otitis media in another. All 12 children had intestinal abnormalities, ranging from lymphoid nodular hyperplasia to aphthoid ulceration. Histology showed patchy chronic inflammation in the colon in 11 children and reactive ileal lymphoid hyperplasia in seven, but no granulomas. Behavioural disorders included autism (nine), disintegrative psychosis (one), and possible postviral or vaccinal encephalitis (two). There were no focal neurological abnormalities and MRI and EEG tests were normal. Abnormal laboratory results were significantly raised urinary methylmalonic acid compared with agematched controls (p=0·003), low haemoglobin in four children, and a low serum IgA in four children."

So, what part of the findings sounds like it's not a conclusion as you purport it to be?

So, what part of the findings sounds like it's not a conclusion as you purport it to be?

Every single bit of what you just quoted. Those are observations quoted, not conclusions.

Also, I did read Andrew Wakefield's paper, as I studied statistics at university with an emphasis on drug efficacy

You don't need statistics when it's a case series of 12 patients.

I suppose those are directly correlated then, instead of, oh, I don't know, a downward trend independent of his paper?

No, if you're going to imply that he "caused" 2 measles deaths then you should have some facts. AND the facts should support that. You had neither.

Had there been an upward trend would you have concluded that to be independent or would you have made other unsubstantiated assumptions?

Robert, when you say that 9 children out of the 12 have autism, what can you logically conclude about the MMR vaccine?

With the prevalance of autism much lower than 9 out of 12, what does this study do other than scare people?

Even if we have 5 percent of the population not getting the necessary vaccines that is a problem. Right after Andrew Wakefield's paper was published the rate of coverage of 2 years old receiving the MMR jab began dropping, to a lowpoint of about 80 percent five years ago. It's only recently begun coming back up.

http://www.onmedica.com/newsarticle.aspx?id=e3564f28-9cf2-4ecf-bc6d-406af807a932

But still below where we need it to be.

You can go ahead and have your opinion on the matter, but I think 100 percent coverage is what we're looking for. Disagree? That's fine. My interest in making sure no one gets these preventable diseases.

Oh, and also Robert:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683643.ece

So yeah, thanks for breaking the herd immunity.

Robert, when you say that 9 children out of the 12 have autism, what can you logically conclude about the MMR vaccine?

This was not an RCT. And no don't ask me what I conclude. Show me the author's conclusion in his own words. I don't think you understand the design and purpose of the study.

You can go ahead and have your opinion on the matter, but I think 100 percent coverage is what we're looking for. Disagree?

I agree that YOU are looking for 100% coverage.

So yeah, thanks for breaking the herd immunity.

How did I do that? you should think things through first.

Oh, and Wakefield's paper was a fraud...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40930256/ns/health-mental_health/

Let me guess, MSNBC is trying to frame him now right?

They don't get enough cyanide either!!

Most vaccines dont have mercury in them anymore

They don't get enough ethylene glycol either. You can't fix stupid.

And according to a poster further down, vaccines that do have as much as a can of tuna.

The only vaccine that is made with mercury is the flu shot and you can get them mercury free.

exactly..... its quite odd the united states has turned into a lazy fat complaining society. but when it comes to stopping disease they complain against it. it is just more proof of how society has gone palin stupid.

Vaccines are less profitable by far than treating disease is. The drug companies would love you to stay unvaccinated - they'll make a killing on antivirals and other drugs when you come down with a disease you could have avoided, or become a carrier for one and infect a dozen other people.

So true Trailfoot..

Melanie, kids today do not know how lucky they are to have the chicken pox vaccine! I still have pox scars myself.. including on my face. Of course everyone else I know has them too..

trailfoot:

Vaccines are less profitable by far than treating disease is. The drug companies would love you to stay unvaccinated - they'll make a killing on antivirals and other drugs when you come down with a disease you could have avoided, or become a carrier for one and infect a dozen other people.

Another myth!

Could you break down the numbers of disease treatment vs. vaccination?

When considering the money path for disease treatment you need to consider who and what companies get that money. What you'll see is that the money is spread out and not concentrated. And only a minority of the population needs treatment or even gets clinical disease. Tens of thousands at most.

Vaccine money is concentrated to a few companies and you're talking about hundreds of millions of customers.

How much money does Sanofi get from selling their whooping cough vaccine vs. treating whooping cough? Do they even have any pertussis treatment medicine. Are there generics available? Are there competitors?

I would rather have my child vaccinated against pertussis than to get it. Whooping cough can kill a child!

There's the rub. The one's who are most risk at risk are too young to be fully vaccinated or vaccinated at all. So the strategy is to create a herd immunity by having everyone else vaccinated. But the pertussis vaccine doesn't work the way others do. The vaccine is for the toxoid not the bacteria. So, a vaccinated person can still be the carrier for the bacteria and give it to small infant.

That is why this manufacturer says this

“It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants.”

Im allergic to the Pertussis vaccine. So I am relying on those around me to get vaccinated and help me not get it. Pertussis is making a comeback because people arent getting their kids vaccinated. Hopefully I dont get exposed to it because someone didnt want to get a shot.

I'd love to see these studies. Show them to me?

its not toxins they are full of the disease they are preventing DUH...... prime example of palin stupid. grats 2 u.

Vaccines are not effective? They haven't nearly wiped out many diseases? Only kooks think that. And you can only contemplate even suggesting it because everybody vaccinated around you is protecting you.

Our country is full of idiots, for example a vaccine MAY contain minuscule amounts of ethyl mercury, it may be dangerous but the ingredients in your average thermometer are much more toxic, before you go fearing the element in question, look at its compounded state. Sodium metal is explosive, Chlorine gas killed during WWI, if what your saying is true Jolie 999 then table salt, sodium chloride, not potassium chloride, is dangerous.

I'd love to hear a sensible explanation for the eradication of smallpox without crediting vaccines.

When i grew up, I got the oral polio vaccine and the smallpox vaccine. I got chicken pox and have some pox marks because I scratched. I had measles. And I had mumps and didn't become sterile because I stayed inactive like I was supposed to do.

All my friends had the same 2 vaccines as me, and all the other childhood diseases and are still alive.

Post hoc, ergo proctor hoc.

ANN - I think Tetanus is supposed to be given every 10 years. Double check with your doc, but I don't think you need one every 3-5.

I am under the impression that it is good for ten years unless you get an injury that might expose you to the bug. Then you need it more often. But that is just what I heard one time.

I used to get the flu vaccine every year like clockwork...until a friend's daughter now has the equivalent to autism. She started having seizures TEN MINUTES after the vaccine, and had NO PREVIOUS SYMPTOMS before the shot. I'm sorry, but that's too much of a coincidence for my comfort. I don't trust our government enough to do enough testing on vaccines to make sure they're safe. I'll get a tetanus shot every 3-5 years. I'll take my chances with yearly testing, and go to the doctor when I think I need to. I don't have children, and it's my body.

What would you blame the seizures on if she hadn't had a flu shot 10 min earlier? 10 min? Are you serious? That's not long enough to produce an adverse reaction to anything. Some ppl are born w/ seizure disorders. You do realize you prefaced that bit of nonsense by saying you used to get flu shots yearly like clockwork, right? And you never had a seizure or any adverse reaction, right? So you're going to stop doing that b/c ofsome freak coincidence? That makes sense.

Another me me me me me. Flu shots aren't just to stop you from getting sick. It's to stop you from making everyone w/ whom you come into contact sick.

You naysayers have no clue how many ppl whose lives you may have destroyed (by, say, making them lose their jobs over being out too long for a case of pneumonia) or that you may have killed already. Children, infants, the elderly, pregnant women, AIDS sufferers, cancer survivors, ppl w/ chronic lung disease, ppl w/ compromised immune systems, all of those are far more susceptible to a case of the flu than you.

When you get sick & you drag yourself out to the closest drugstore to stock up on OTC meds, you're handing over contaminated cash or germing up the keypad entering your CC or DC info. Do you think that stuff gets sterilized at all, let alone after each use? Um, no.

Thanks for doing your part in winnowing out those who don't fall under Kent's "survival of the fittest" game plan.

Kent, you are right about tetanus every 10 years, but if you haven't had one within 5 years of an open injury (laceration) then you will get one.

Scar, you can have an allergic reaction within seconds of getting any injection. In truth flu shots are questionable at best, if for no other reason that probability. Ther are thousands of flu viruses, and you are only exposed to 3 or 4 in a flu shot. The odds are not in your favor.

your parents shouldnt have forced u to get your polio shot. sad u were deprived of polio because of that...... palin stupid award 2 u too

Vaccines eradicated smallpox. They're currently in the process of eradicating a disease of cattle that's wiped out millions of head. They've made the worst of the childhood diseases third-world problems - and people like you are bringing those diseases back for the next generation of children. Children are dying, and it's on your head.

Your life does depend on it, and you don't even realize it.

To be fair, it might not be his life.

It might instead be the life of that person with HIV or a transplant or a genetic immune disorder next to him at work that's lost to his ignorance.

really mr. spurloc who's the dummy here.funny i got the polio shot when i was 4.had no say in the matter.

your life depends on it, and you don't even realize it.i'd rather take my chances. if you build up your imune system, you won't need this garbage.espesially flu shots. oh by the way i also had the flu too, this year. n o problem.a little discomfort and i'm still here.isn't that amazing.oh and i didn't give to anyone either.

oh and me bringing back the deseases, and it's on my head,oh please, let's not get overly dramatic here shall we? first of all when i'm sick i stay the hell home where i belong. i don't go near kids and i don't go near cattle, or any animal for that matter.go after the people who drag their kids out coughing and hacking,into crowds spreading crap, because it's too in convient for them to stay home., go after the people who go into crowds sick, coughing and hacking, again because it's too inconvient for them to stay the hell home, go after them.

you want to shoot yourselves up with this money making crap.especially the flu vaccines then knock yourselves out.i do as i see fit,harm no one and no one tells me.got that?

.

if you people want to fill up on that crap then by all means knock yourselves out.

And if you don't know you're sick? Most diseases are contagious for a while before symptoms show up. And when you're in that phase, you're risking infecting anyone with a compromised immune system around you, and killing them.

again overly dramatic.

Not really. It's fact, not drama.

If you're not immunized, you're making a decision that notably increases the chance that you'll be responsible for the death of someone else.

They are wonderful.

overly dramatic.of course i'll be responsible. what a crock of S h i t. pedal it somewhere else i'm not buying!

you want get vaccinated then like i said kn ock yourself out. you or anyone else are in any position to make statements that dramatic.i wouldn't be responmsible anymore than you would. your blowing it out there and you don't know what your blowing it out about. blanket staement with no real backing. pedal it some where else.

So fear is good, get out of the field of medicine you tea party idiot.

Read the science, gloria. You're making a choice that puts other people at risk. Refusing vaccination is the moral equivalent of drunk driving.

trailfoot there's a pulpet waiting for ya go find it. perhaps your a paid mouth piece for the drug companies.

again not qualified to make overblown statements.go pedal it or preach to some other sucker. like isaid a crock of s h i t. about the equivilant of a frog giving you worts.

I'm not preaching anything except an understanding of science and basic consideration for your fellow man.

who are you to tell me about the basic consideration of your fellow man. like i said find pulpet and pedal it somewhere else.i'm not buying.

your mentyality is that of the TSA crowd who believe being scanned, groped and molested, is for your safety. go talk them, you have alot in common.

Gloria, why are you bring up being groped and molested? You seem to have a problem. A vaccine might not be in order....maybe some haldol would be more appropriate.

Gloria--learn to spell before you post again.

Trailfoot - You're obviously a robo schill on here representing the pharmaceutical companies, so take your medicine and STFU already!!!!

Let's see if I can follow Trailfoot's "logic" on this:

You are contagious before symptoms show up, which means you could make someone else sick before you yourself even realize you're sick. Meaning, you feel fine and you think you're healthy, but in reality you're contagious and could infect someone else with some disease.

Under that logic, those of us who think they are healthy should stay home anyway because we might infect someone, and then we'd be responsible for people getting sick. In other words, all the people of the world should never leave their homes for fear of giving or receiving a sniffle to or from someone!

We've already seen many others on this vine citing examples of people who got the flu after getting a flu shot. Under that "you'll be responsible for making people sick" logic, there is not a single person on the face of the planet who should ever be allowed to set foot outside of their homes for fear of spreading some terrible virus they don't even know they have.

Come on, get a grip! The best way to strengthen your immune system is to eat healthy. Get plenty of vitamin C. Load up on it - it's water-soluble, so your body just gets rid of what it doesn't need.

hey 11madness a name that is a true tribute to yourself.as far as the other s h i t. you take it!you need it more than me.

momof4 tell it to my keyboard. it's called a typo lady!

I guess if vaccines don't work, what happened to smallpox? It was willed out of existence through strong immune systems?

You can have your vaccines. Olive leaf extract or LDM-100 will kill the shingles virus along w/the herpes virus and HIV as will Extra Virgin coconut oil as they are all ANTI-VIRAL, ANTI-BACTERIAL, ANTI-BIOTIC and ANTI-FUNGAL.

You Big Pharma cheerleaders think whatever you want. Those of us who've practiced natural/homeopathic/holistic medicine can vouch for it's effectiveness AND safety because the results have been proven over and over again. I will NEVER use another synthetic drug in my lifetime.

Unless you've actually studied alternative medicine and UNDERSTAND how and why it works you don't have the expertise or credibility to dispute it's efficacy so don't even BOTHER responding with some bull$hit Big Pharma rhetoric.

You're all part of Big Brother's brainwashed lemmings. The NWOs agenda is unfolding as planned and you can thank yourselves for it.

Let's see if I can follow Trailfoot's "logic" on this:

O c'mon, Wall of J, you're dramatizing just a tad, dontcha think? Of course there are illnesses that are either not contagious or for which there is no vaccine available that will make the rounds no matter what precautions are taken or if you stay home or not. Trailfoot was talking about illness that is totally preventable from being spread if ppl stop buying into this autism hysteria & vaccinate their kids already. Did you see the bit about the Amish epidemics above? That's kind of the reference pt.

As always, this thread has strayed OT. The seed was about adult vaccines, not children's, anyway. So get your flu shot so you don't compromise others' health, get your shingles shot if you've had chicken pox b/c that is not a nice disease to have, & get your tetanus booster b/c as I said earlier, lockjaw is a bad way to die.

Actually, I think routine titers should be run on all adults to check their immunity to things they were vacccinated against as kids. The rubella vaccine wasn't around until the 80s & there was no chicken pox vaccine available until the 90s. Just b/c you didn't catch these things or even if you've had them doesn't mean you're immune to them. When I was in college I was told by the health center there that I had to either get an MMR booster b/c it had been over 20 yrs since my intial series, or get a titer done to prove immunity, in light of the 3 cases of rubella I'd had. Some of the vaccines from the 50s, 60s, & 70s weren't as potent as what they gave out in the 80s & beyond, particularly the MM one, so you may not be immune to measles & mumps, & you're certainly not immune to rubella & chicken pox b/c the shot didn't exist back then. Luckily my titer showed my MM took & my recurrent rubella had finally made me immune to it. But ppl our age don't want to come down w/ measles, mumps, chicken pox, or rubella, b/c it's way more severe in adults than in children. It's not a bad idea to make sure, esp on the rubella if you're expecting grandchildren.

momof4 tell it to my keyboard. it's called a typo lady!

There's this wonderful invention called "spell check". It's that ABC icon w/ the blue checkmark at the far R of your reply box. Find it & use it & don't make excuses for such horrendous postings that no one can even understand.

Thsi is a typo. Your posts are largely, um, uncomprehensible gobbledygook. You're a scroll-by for most.

Read the science, gloria. You're making a choice that puts other people at risk. Refusing vaccination is the moral equivalent of drunk driving.

trailfoot, I think you need to read the science. You're filling in blanks that just aren't there. That's not very scientific. You're drinking the science blog's kool aid.

Science blog? Scientific studies. Lots of them.

I read them. Regularly.

My first and only flu shot was 15 years ago. Today I will not touch that shot. I take my vitamins though, and I am rarely sick. Reason being: I trust my immune system to do its job. Sorry scar, but I am not getting another flu shot. I don't trust it, I don't need it, and I have yet to see definitive evidence that there are any benefits.

I only skimmed the article, so maybe I missed it, but I was looking for costs. Thanks for providing one. I figured that was part of the issue. Who would write an article about this without discussing the costs involved. Dumb.

I personally did get shingles, but I was on the younger side. It might have been really bad for an older person with a less well working immune system. But the treatment drugs were effective and a lot less than the cost of the vaccine, at least for someone my age. Perhaps an older person would not fare so well.

A lot of that cost is there because the companies know insurance companies are paying for it. People with insurance that covers everything just don't care what things cost, generally, and that runs up the prices for people covering things like this themselves. If people were paying for it themselves only, the cost would be far less, I am sure. Otherwise the companies would have no sales. Insurance imbalances pricing.

So Brianne you want and think you need the service.....but you aren't willing to pay for it, is that right? My girl friend also works in the pharmacy and she doesn't live check to check....Oh but thats right she is a conservative minded person. People that live check to check have made a choice in life to do so. Unless you are talking about the disabled or retarded.

We on the conservative side of the arguement call it personal responsibility. You know getting up in the morning going to school and working at the same time so we can pay for our education. Then when we get our education and get a good job, we save our money for a rainy day and retirement. But then we find out it was all for naut, All we had to do was whine and cry and the government will take it from someone else and give it to you.

If everybody avoided vaccines at all costs, the cost would be mass death. You realize that, right? That cost is ok with you?

Or so you say

Mr. Fog, look at smallpox and polio and measles before vaccination. It's not just lorent saying, it's HISTORY.

Actually Lorent - yes it is. Mass death is a fact of life. The earth cannot support 7 billion people. It's over populated. In the big picture, we need some mass death in order to re-balance the earth. Sorry - but death is a fact of life. Maybe it'll be me - maybe it will. I don't believe that we all have a "right" to arrive at the ripe old age of 85 in perfect health. Some of us will die long before reaching that age. It's just how life works. I think it's incredibly arrogant of "us", humans to think that we're going to somehow avoid that.

Anti-biotics were touted as the best thing since sliced bread - what has bacteria done - it's mutated and now we have anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Would it have been better to not mutate the bacteria which will now affect younger and healthier people? I don't know the answer to that but there is always positive and negative in everything.

All isolated 3rd world countries are dead right? That's what your saying is that human existence is not possible without the toxic vaccine injection. How did we evolve without this miracle vaccine to the point where we could live long enough to create it? Your logic is obviously flawed.

Pharma propaganda!

Children died, Oracle. Lots of children died. Others were horribly disfigured for life by diseases like smallpox and polio.

We didn't die out as a species, but we suffered from things that, today, we don't have to because of vaccinations.

Fog - not sure who u are addressing. I don't believe we need all of the "miracle vaccines". I said survival of the fittest. The more fit strains of humans survive and the weaker ones die. Fact of life - always has been, always will be. Vaccine or not.

Ok, lets go down this path. Clearly there are vaccines that do have some benefit to life. Also, clearly there are vaccines that have no benefit to life, but claim to have a benefit. Yet, all the vaccines are grouped as a whole that they have benefit when they do not. It's like our food and water. Stop putting garbage in it when there is absolutely no benefit to health whatsoever. You want Mercury in it? No, I prefer not to have Mercury in my body. You want dead cancer cells in your body? Not me. You want to eat Genetically Modified food that produces it's own toxin? No thanks. You want water that contains flouride and chlorine in it? Go for it, not me. You want your vaccines to maim children for years to come? Your children first, then prove it to me. These products are put out in the public as an 'emergency' and not tested very well. You and your children need to be the guinea pigs, not me or my family.

Nonsense.

If you take too much Vitamin D, you will be too healthy and they know it.

Actually if you take too much Vitamin D, you'll get hypercalcemia. Just saying.

We didn't die out as a species, but we suffered from things that, today, we don't have to because of vaccinations.

Many suffered at the hands of the vaccines that didn't have to. But they weren't given informed consent back then.

Ok, now how much Vitamin D is too much considering very healthy people in countries that do daily farming get as much as 50,000-150,000 IU of Vitamin D from the sun. It doesn't really matter to me. I'll take my 2000-5000 IU per day and not get colds or flu and you can read articles about how damaging Vitamin D is for you.

Ok, now how much Vitamin D is too much considering very healthy people in countries that do daily farming get as much as 50,000-150,000 IU of Vitamin D from the sun.

That's BS. After your body gets the equilibrium point it starts being degraded. You can't have 50k IUs of vitamin D without toxicity. Even if you were in the sun all day the max is 10k IUs.

Just because you throw numbers into your comment doesn't make them right, CHECK first.

Fog you need to do your homework on Vitamin D deficiency.. low levels in children causes rickets (brittle bone disease).. In adults, deficiencies screw with your thyroid, your digestion, your muscles, your bones and your immune system.

I am taking 50k weekly plus a daily 800 of vit d due to extreme deficiency..(my level was 11, for a 44 yoa wf). Your level as an adult should be somewhere between 75 and 100.

50k DAILY causes toxicity over a period of a few months. The amount that you get from sunlight and foods is a minimal addition to daily intake.. unless your using artificial lighting source to enhance your daily intake..(ie.. tanning beds) and even then it is nearly impossible to get to the rates that you quoted.

You need to read up: http://www.webmd.com/diet/vitamin-d-deficiency

http://www.bing.com/health/article/naturalstandard-125188/Vitamin-D?q=vitamin+d+deficiency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_deficiency

http://www.answers.com/topic/vitamin-d-deficiency

Just a little bit of reading material for you.

Ok linkers, isn't his interesting:

Although there are documented cases of pharmacological overdoses from ergocalciferol, the only documented case of pharmacological—not industrial—toxicity from cholecalciferol we could find in the literature was intoxication from an over-the-counter supplement called Prolongevity. Koutkia P, Chen TC, Holick MF. Vitamin D intoxication associated with an over-the-counter supplement. N Engl J Med. 2001 Jul 5;345(1):66–7. On closer inspection, it seemed more like an industrial accident but it was interesting because it gave us some idea of the safety of cholecalciferol. The capsules consumed contained up to 430 times the amount of cholecalciferol contained on the label (2,000 IU). The man had been taking between 156,000–2,604,000 IU of cholecalciferol a day (equivalent to between 390–6,500 of the 400 unit capsules) for two years. He recovered uneventfully after proper diagnosis, treatment with steroids, and sunscreen.

For some interesting vitamin D facts go to this link:

http://www.grc.com/health/vitamin-d.htm

Eh. Pharma uses the free market to make piles of money at the expense of people by charging rather a lot more than what their product costs to develop and manufacture. I won't deny that they need more oversight.

Science, though, has two things to say about vaccines - they work, and the risks of vaccination are far outweighed by the benefits.

The drug companies charge more than they should because people don't have to make a personal decision about what to purchase when their insurance is designed to cover everything. If people want a more expensive treatment, they should have to put something out of their own pocket to do it. Even if this is a token amount, people would then let economics control pricing.

But we have all these insurance programs that don't put any cost on people that abuse or overuse their benefits. So the drug companies can charge whatever they can get the insurance companies to pay, which is a lot more than people themselves would pay.

I had shingles a few years ago. The dermatologist gave me Valtrex. It worked fine. But then I learned that acyclovir would accomplish the same thing for 20% of the cost. I have real "insurance" vs. many people that have all inclusive health plans. My insurance just covers big problems. So it costs a lot less. And I can shop around for basic medical care and prescriptions. The Valtrex worked fine, but the inflammation took longer to clear up than the prescription lasted. So I had to go back for more anti viral meds. This time, though, I asked about acyclovir. She said sure, that would work, too. but it has a shorter half life and has to be taked 5 times a day instead of once or twice for the name brand patented Valtrex. Basically, for the convenience of not having to take a few more pills, she had cost me about $70 on that first prescription. She is probably so used to treating people who have medical plans (not really insurance) that cover everything with no need for people to make an economic choice, that she justs prescribes the most expensive treatment without thinking about it. This is one of the main reasons medical care costs so much and why drug prices are out of relation to their costs to develop and manufacture. I have several other examples of this same type of waste in our medical system.

Containing costs requires individuals to have to make good financial decisions about how to treat their health issues. People who think everybody should have whatever they want without having to pay any price for cadillac treatment when a hyundai would get you there are out to lunch. Until people have to watch their medical expenses they same way they watch money out of their pocket, medial treatment will bankrupt people and countries.

If you are looking for waste, look no further than the military industrial complex.

Whats Iraq going to cost when benefits, heathcare, and equipment replacement is factored in...ive read > 1 trillion. Drug companies are the least of our problem.

Science, though, has two things to say about vaccines - they work, and the risks of vaccination are far outweighed by the benefits.

Science doesn't say crap. People do. Science is amoral, areligious, and doesn't make value judgements. People do. And people have all sorts of ideas and ideologies even if they are scientists and government policy makers.

People can have agendas. Science - the Scientific Method - does not, and it makes hiding your agenda and making false claims to other scientists quite difficult, for part of science is inviting others to verify your work.

Scientist come in to experiments with a priori. They get fooled all the time. Mass vaccination is one of them. The scientific method is messy when applied to medicine. The method itself is not infallable in medicine. Then you add ideologies of people using and manipulating science into the mix and it becomes a great way to coerce people and transfer wealth. Just tell them they are stupid toothless fools and baby killers if they disagree with you. How scientific.

Science is a useful empirical tool. It is not my religion. It may be yours but I do not believe in a totally empirical quantitative universe.

Cite a study that's not discredited on that, please?

There's a few dozen that say you're wrong. There's no causal link between vaccines and autism.

And you are Dr. who?

I have read many articals siting it. Thank you

My girl friend works in the medical feild and she says there is no way she would take a flu shot.

DBowyer is right. they tell you no link but you can bet the bank there is. can yohyu imagine the lawsuits if it causing autisism got out?no no he's right, all hell would break loose.

they're just coverinn it up like did have done with everything else in the past.

I'm someone who knows how to read a scientific paper, D Bowyer. And I've got a few dozen scientific studies backing me up.

In response to the hysteria over vaccines the government conducted multiple studies and found no link between the two. It has been reported in many places for a long time. You don't need to be a doctor to understand articles explaining the results. Doctors just read the studies, too, so they have no first hand knowledge.

The issue has been investigated and refuted, but certain groups of people will not accept the result no matter how much it is proven. Arguing with them is a waste of time. But that doesn't mean they win the argument, as much as they seem to think so.

Trailfoot: Then why are so many normal babies developing autisic behaviors after being vaccinated?

You're committing a logical fallacy, PMoscatelli. It's called "Post hoc, ergo proctor hoc" - after, therefore because of. I got a raise today after eating bread; therefore eating bread leads to getting raises.

The first round of childhood vaccines happen at about the same time autistic regression tends to happen. There's no causal relationship between the two - they just happen to occur at the same time. The human brain likes to make associations between things, so it looks to the parent as if the vaccine caused the autistic behavior when in fact the two just happen to have been done at the same time, and since the two are both linked to that moment in development - not to each other, but to that moment in development - it's statistically more likely that one will happen around the same time as the other.

The child showed signs of autism because the child reached a certain age. The child was vaccinated because the child reached a certain age. The two share a cause; one was not the cause of the other.

While I wouldn't be surprised if "childhood" vaccines (NOT the flu shot) are a trigger to autism, I don't think they are the underlying cause. If they were, more people in older generations would have developed it. I had to undergo plenty of vaccines as a child, yet you don't see the autism rate in my generation (30s) near what it has been in the last decade or so. I seriously think there is something that we just aren't seeing, whether environmental or processed foods that weren't around when I was real young that may be the true culprit.

From what I've seen, autism is genetic. Seems to run in the German line around these parts.

it m ay be genic in rare cases.however 1 in 110 is no longer genetic nor is it rare.they are no trying to link autism to kids living near free ways.funny freeways have been around for years and not very many people developed autism. now they come out with this news flash.yeah i believe it of course i do.

1 in 1 people are human. Being human is genetic.

The "autism epidemic" is largely a result of improved diagnostic techniques - we have learned enough about the spectrum of disorders that we recognize them far more often, and thus more people are diagnosed with autism in spite of no actual increase in per capita cases.

Also I know someone whos kid was not vaccinated yet and he has autism. Another possible cause for autism could be pesticides

thats not necessarily true either. there's the other end of the spectrum it's the lesser of 2 evils. they over stamp autism also.

Trailfoot-- We also have broadend the definition of the condition to include alot of folks who previously wouldt have been included.

I think Autism is caused by sushi restaurants. There has been an explosion of sushi consumption over the last 15 years or so. That sushi explosion coincides with the increase in autism. I definately see a cause and effect relationship. I believe the sushi restaurant owners and producers are keeping this information from us. It is a conspiracy.

I blame anime. As exposure to this horrible plague of wide-eyed hand-drawn characters has expanded, so too has autism! Oh no!

Trailfoot, correlation doesn't always indicate causation, but a high correlation is at the very least worth a closer look.

In the military they make you take it. I felt ill one time afterwards. I felt like I had the flu. But I think that was just my body responding to things in the vaccine. The symptoms were my body's response, not actually having the flu. I just went to bed early and felt fine the next day. I think it would be wise for people to get the shot in the evening so that they can sleep off any side effects rather than doing it in the morning and potentially messing up their day.

Some people, though, may be more sensitive to ingredients in the shot. My wife has had several adverse reactions to various medications and foods. It sounds like you might be one person that should skip the vaccine. But that doesn't mean everybody else should.

But I think that was just my body responding to things in the vaccine.

Yeah. Microbes and toxic chemicals.

Vaccines are made of deactivated viruses. For diseases whose most recognizable symptoms come from immune action, you're going to see symptoms after a vaccine - that's the vaccine working. That's your immune system attacking the vaccine and learning how to fight the disease it's made of.

Like puking your brains out - just like from getting the disease naturally (if you get it at ALL)?
PASS.

HOT - you can make all the dumb objections you want, but they are still dumb. Like Trailfoot says, it is your body's immune system reacting to the dead virus or viral pieces, not chemicals. Some people perhaps might have an adverse reaction to some of the chemicals, just like my wife has to many medications that are useful the vast majority of people. That doesn't make it poison. Lots of people have bad reactions to peanuts or shellfish. That doesn't mean everybody else should avoid those things. Your objections are nonsense.

The symptoms will be less severe, and you WON'T BE CONTAGIOUS. You won't be at risk of the complications of the disease that could kill you. You'll get a little sick, then you'll be better quickly.

Cause and effect???

You get a little sick, then you'll be better quickly.

And we have a WINNAH! The dumbest reason to vaccinate and the dumbest statement yet on this thread!!!

Getting the vaccines exposes your immune system so that if you are exposed to the disease again your body can recognize and attack it before you suffer any symptoms of it. You anti-vaccine people have issues.

No HOT, you aren't sick, you only feel sick temporarily as your immune system reacts to what it thinks is actual disease. That is what prepares you to knock out actual live virus without getting sick.

It is your comments that are among the dumbest on here.

That's even more an idiotic statement than you previously posted.

No HOT, you aren't sick, you only feel sick temporarily as your immune system reacts to what it thinks is actual disease.

Oh, I see...you're not really sick, you only think you are. You don't really feel lousy, you just think you do. I get it now, it all makes sense!! Eureka!!

It does make sense. Your body may have (not everyone has it) a small reaction to what's in the vaccine & for a few hrs you feel "not normal", which ppl interpret as "I feel sick". That means the vaccine is doing its job in your system & nothing more. Most ppl don't have any reaction to a flu shot. When I get mine I don't. Just b/c a minority of ppl experience a reaction doesn't mean it's bad or that it's everyone's experience, & it shouldn't be used as a reason to avoid them.

trailfoot:

The symptoms will be less severe, and you WON'T BE CONTAGIOUS. You won't be at risk of the complications of the disease that could kill you. You'll get a little sick, then you'll be better quickly.

Some people get febrile induced seizures from the vaccine and then die. So, no, not everyone gets better quickly.

Sometimes, it really is simple: if you feel sick, you probably are sick. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me.

Sometimes, it really is simple: if you feel sick, you probably are sick. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me.

So explain how autoimmune disorders work then. Or inflammation reactions. Neither are caused by bacteria, virus, nor fungi, yet they can make a person feel incredibly sick. (Kind of similar to how a flu vaccine creates an immune response.)

Being fatigued can easily be caused by lack of sleep or stress. Doesn't mean the person is actually sick though. Indigestion can make a person feel sick, doesn't mean it's anything more then too much chili.

Yes, I don't get it. Feels like the flu, coughs like the flu, fever like the flu, aches like the flu. Nah, you just "feel" like you have the flu. It's not REALLY flu.

You know what? You're not winning any brownie points from the person suffering from the vaccine by telling them that what they have is in their head.

The doctor sold them an image that they WOULDN'T feel like that and they were let them down.

Have you gotten tested to see if it was the flu? Flu symptoms are common among other infections and illnesses. Take coughing- is it specific only to influenza? Are chills only specific to the flu? Everytime you have a fever, is it the flu?

Could it be that these are also symptoms of immune response?

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000821.htm

Please explain though how a dead, deactivated viral vaccine can cause the flu. And I say this as a person who has a history of "bad" vaccine reactions.

I'm not saying that the person got the flu from the vaccine itself. But from a consumer standpoint, people don't care what a virus looks like under an electron microscope.

Fear sells vaccines. Death is the number one tool used. But for most people I think it's the avoidance of that "icky" feeling. The flu vaccine is sold a security from that. If you get the flu shot and still get that "icky" feeling like the flu then I don't think that person cares what the doctor calls it. The "well at least you didn't get the flu from the shot" is not a consolation.

The flu shot is notoriously known for failing to do what it promises to do.

It's not always just an icky feeling, although I will admit I share some of the same views as you do on it not being a "vital" vaccine. But can we take a second to look at it from my standpoint: If I got the flu right now, I could die. In all seriousness. I'm pregnant and my asthma has gotten worse since. I also have some other issues that I'd rather not discuss publicly. My allergies plus asthma almost sent me into hospitalization and premature labor already. I also have the complication of I physically cannot have the flu vaccine, due to an egg allergy. I do rely on the people around me getting vaccinated.

Honestly, I really do not care if a person vaccinates or not. I have my opinions and you have yours. We shall not change each others minds. But I do take great issue with talking about certain diseases as nothing more then "icky" or harmless. For most, this is true. For some, it really isn't a laughing matter. At a young age, I contracted strep throat, normally a complication-less problem. For me, it turned into Scarlet Fever and stunted my growth, ruined my heart, and caused some other problems. Now, there isn't a vaccine for Scarlet Fever, but I say this to show that, for some of us, it's not a matter of just icky.

And, like I said previously, I do have a history of bad vaccine reactions. My last round of shots gave me a bad case of inflammation. I have every reason to not trust vaccines, yet I do.

So explain how autoimmune disorders work then. Or inflammation reactions. Neither are caused by bacteria, virus, nor fungi, yet they can make a person feel incredibly sick. (Kind of similar to how a flu vaccine creates an immune response.)

Auto-immune disorders...I assume you're referring to disorders like lupus? Those with auto-immune disorders are sick. They have the added misfortune of getting sick because of their immune systems. Inflammation - you're referring to allergic reactions? If you have allergies, you certainly are sick, as my fiancee and my father can tell you from experience.

Being fatigued can easily be caused by lack of sleep or stress. Doesn't mean the person is actually sick though

I never equated fatigue with sickness, although not only can it be a side effect of being sick, it can also make you more susceptible to illness.

My point is, if you have sinus congestion, a fever, upset stomach, or other flu symptoms, it's condescending to say that the person is not really sick, but only thinks he is.

Auto-immune disorders...I assume you're referring to disorders like lupus? Those with auto-immune disorders are sick. They have the added misfortune of getting sick because of their immune systems. Inflammation - you're referring to allergic reactions? If you have allergies, you certainly are sick, as my fiancee and my father can tell you from experience.

My point was that the immune system has a specific response with specific symptoms, not unlike what you would experience after a shot. In both cases, the immune system is working overtime to respond to a problem. The difference is what is being responded to- in the case of autoimmune disorders, the threat is only percieved whereas in the case of a vaccine, it is the immune system actively responding to an "invading" force.

And I actually did not mean allergies in inflammatory response. I meant the inflammatory response that the body creates when dealing with the immune system. In relation to vaccines, the body creates an inflammation response to start "cleaning up" and healing the body. But it also can create a rather unhappy feeling in the person, such as feverish and aches. Things that can very easily be taken for the flu.

Look, I'm not trying to sound condescending, but just because a person feels sick after the flu shot does NOT mean that it is the flu, no matter how similar symptoms may be. My point is that the person is NOT sick due to the shot, but due to the body's reaction. Perhaps the medical community could be a little more friendly on that front, but that is a whole different story.

just because a person feels sick after the flu shot does NOT mean that it is the flu, no matter how similar symptoms may be. My point is that the person is NOT sick due to the shot, but due to the body's reaction.

OK, so if you get the actual flu, you're not actually sick from the flu, but from your body's reaction to it? I've been told (correct me if I'm wrong) that the flu vaccine is basically a watered-down version of the flu, mixed with other unknown chemicals. So, there really is no difference there.

If it looks like a turd, smells like a turd, and feels like a turd, it probably is a turd. The differences here are so minuscule that you would actually be better off saving your money and opting out of the shot.

I've been told (correct me if I'm wrong) that the flu vaccine is basically a watered-down version of the flu, mixed with other unknown chemicals.

That is at least misleading, if not downright wrong. First, the actual flu is a virus. And, to some degree, flu symptoms are symptoms of your body reacting to the virus. Fevers, mucus production, and aches, in general, are the immune system reaction to foreign invasions.

The flu vaccine, however, is a completely inert, 100% dead virus. It is not live. It can do nothing. It's a corpse. What happens is your body sees this "corpse" of a virus and freaks out, because it's new and invading. The virus does absolutely nothing, but your body creates antibodies (a battle plan or a weapon) to "destroy" this virus. (It's the creation of these antibodies which is the immune response, essentially) Now, lets say a month later, your body encounters a live version of this flu virus. Your body already has a battle plan of specific antibodies mapped out, so it can just attack right away without hesitation and you wouldn't even notice it. Otherwise, if you encountered the live virus without being vaccinated, your body has to go through all the steps and processes of creating antibodies, which leaves time for the virus to settle in and start causing problems.

Also alot of people who say the "got the flu" actually didnt even get the flu. They had a cold which is not as severe. When you are sick for 2 or 3 days and then perfectly fine, that is not the flu. When you are sick for 2 weeks then that is the flu. So if you get a flu shot (and get sick because of the reaction of your body fighting it) you dont have "the flu" you're not contagious, and you're fine after 2 or 3 days. If you get sick a few weeks later and that illness last a couple days and thats it then it probably wasn't the flu. It was probably just a cold virus.

OK, so what ultimate benefit have you gotten from it? Either way, you are sick, you are probably contagious with whatever has you sick, and you're out the cost of the shot. What did it prevent?

Wall of J, what Becca is saying is that the slightly sick feeling you might get from the flu shot is short lasting, (about 2-3 days), but the actual flu is a lot more severe and lasts two weeks. That is true for me. I've had the flu, and to me it's better to get the shot, because after the flu, I always get a secondary bacterial infection like sinusitis or bronchitis, which requires a doctor visit and antibiotics, costing more time, money and misery than a simple flu shot. If you don't want it, that's okay, but I'll take my flu shot!

Oh, and by the way, yes I do take care of myself, eat right and exercise, but I have allergies, so I guess that's why I can't shake the secondary without antibiotics. I've also found that the first couple years that I got the shot, I felt a little sick, and then my body became very adept at forming antibodies to that year's flu strains without any sick feeling at all.

Wall of J -

The flu shot only protects from the flu, not a cold. Lots of people say they had "the flu" when they were only mildly sick for a couple days. Those people probably didn't have "the flu" they probably had a cold.

The flu shot may make you feel kind of sick. Some of the symptoms mimic a cold. You are not contagious, unlike if you had an actual cold. These people like to say they got the flu from the shot.

Also alot of people that get the shot and get sick later that winter (with a cold) they say they got the flu, when in fact its a cold.

OK, so what ultimate benefit have you gotten from it? Either way, you are sick, you are probably contagious with whatever has you sick, and you're out the cost of the shot. What did it prevent?

The benefit I get is being less likely to get the flu. I may still end up getting a cold or 2 but probably not the flu.

If I get a cold then yes I am contagious. But the flu shot is not to prevent a cold, so I don't think that should have any bearing on whether or not I choose to get the shot.

If you get sick from the flu shot (as in a mild reaction similar to a cold, like you can get with ANY shot) then no you are not contagious, and I would rather have a mild fever and runny nose for 2 days than the flu.

I don't have to pay for the shot because my insurance covers it so I am not actually out the cost of the shot but if I had a choice between paying for the shot outright, or getting the flu and being sick for a couple weeks, then I will chose paying for the shot. That way I don't miss 2 weeks or more of work, and will have more money in the long run.

As advertised, the flu shot protects against at most 6 strains of the flu. How many strains are currently floating around? How much mutation has occurred since then? The flu shot is tantamount to preventing flooding in New Orleans by bailing with a bucket.

That's not true, Wall of J. Most years, the strains are predicted correctly, and the ones that mutate don't mutate enough to make the vaccine ineffective. The antibodies a person's body produces for a certain strain still work if the virus mutates only slightly. Your New Orleans bucket scenario doesn't hold water.

Cute pun, evanusk, but I still have no reason to trust the vaccine. When you consider that the vaccines were only tested for a couple months before being released to the public. Sorry, but I'm nobody's guinea pig.

They've been making the vaccines the same way for many years in the same labs, so I don't see a problem. Based on my experiences, for me, it's easier and cheaper to get the shot and avoid the flu than to go through all the misery of the flu. As I said earlier though, You have your choice also, and that's okay with me. I don't try to force anyone to get the shot. I never used to get it either. I didn't feel I needed it until I started getting the flu most years, so now it works better for me if I get it.

It comes to a point when the chance of getting the disease from the vaccine is greater than getting the disease from the general population.

We're not there yet, HOTTICKET. And even if we were, if we were to stop vaccinating, we'd leave there right quick.

Vaccines are GOOD.

Hot - you can only contemplate your point because you are protected by everybody else that is vaccinated. Since you get to have the benefits of vaccination without accepting the risks, perhaps you should be the one paying for vaccines. It might be hard to make vaccine avoiders pay to not be vaccinated, but perhaps people that get vaccinated should actually be paid for it. Then that is money you have to put into the system through taxes and premiums that you won't get back.

The dumbest and most Anti-Constitutional and Anti-American statement I have come across, and there have been many here: paying for something you don't receive.

You are receiving the benefits of vaccination! That is what you don't get! And you are putting others at risk. Hell yea I'll charge you for that. But like I said, you don't need to be directly charged. People who are responsible can just be compensated for being responsible. Irresponsibility should cost.

You're getting something you're not paying for - the rest of us get vaccinated, and you get protected by herd immunity.

And, by the way, there's no Constitutional protection against taxes.

Trailfoot, you seem to be forcing your morality on the rest of us who don't want vaccines. Who are you to tell me what I should do? What is your moral basis for not wanting to see others die? Life has cycles and evolution has and will handle living species the best way it sees fit.

I responded to this elsewhere in the thread. Posting the same thing to the same person repeatedly isn't exactly helpful.

No, but there is Constitutional protection against forcing any ADULT to take a shot they don't want. So I won't pay. YOU want the needle up your a.ss? Pay for it yourself.

You wouldn't have a choice. You can't decide not to pay taxes. And if people were paid to get vaccinated you would essentially be paying not to get vaccinated.

Yet another moronic statement. You have any more????

And if people were paid to get vaccinated

But they are NOT. So it's a moot point. Having a problem comprehending that???

Having a problem comprehending the Code of Honor for the 'Vine that you're calling ppl morons?

What Trailfoot has been unsuccessfully attempting to say to you is this:

I get a flu shot. The US govt sends me a nice check for, say, $250 each time I do it, & my dr doesn't charge me anything when I get it. I'm not getting sick, I'm not making anyone else sick, I'm getting a reward for that, I have extra spending $, & I'm happy as the proverbial clam.

You don't get a flu shot & you refuse to vaccinate your kids. So not only do you not get the monetary bonus coming in like I do, the US govt legally levies a tax upon you for your choice to put everyone who comes in contact w/ you & your kids at risk for disease & driving up health care costs by spreading illness like Typhoid Mary. Let's say the tax is $250 per person & you have a wife & 6 kids who aren't getting any shots. So you lose $2K per yr by choosing to say "no" & the govt uses the $ they collect from ppl like you to reward ppl like me. You are not happy as the proverbial clam b/c now it is costing you $ to not get seasonal shots & other vaccinations for you & your family.

I have an incentive to get my flu shot b/c I am being pd $250 per shot & it's a freebie. You have a penalty for not doing it & you're paying out $2K.

Now what's your choice?

Do you get it yet? It's called a "hypothetical situation".

Okay. Let's go over this again. Okay? I'm typing this REALLY slowly. Just for you.

A hypothetical situation is not a situation actually occuring at hand. Presently, people pay to get immunized, NOT people who don't. You got cash, or insurance, you get the shot if you want it. NO ONE forced you, as a consenting adult, to get it. So don't whine about paying to get it. As the current health care fiasco sits now, this REALITY scenario isn't likely to change. So my choice is NOT to get it, based on REALITY, not on some FANTASY. It would STILL be the same if I WAS compelled to subsidize sheep who receive it just because the government pays them for being sheep.

Glad I could help you out with that.

Um, where was there "whining" about cost?

I typed really slowly, too, but I reckon not slow enough if you're just making stuff up.

I don't believe for a minute that the Almighty Dollar wouldn't convince you to stick out your arm if it was going to cost you $2K not to do it.

THIRD time for the mentally impaired: what is "IF" is NOT what is "ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE."

And I'd like to think my personal freedoms are worth more than your thin-aired figure of $2k.

The Almighty Dollar?? I've turned down ten times that to protect my health to stay on days, instead of working the night shift, sweetie. MOOT POINT.

I can post this as many times as you like, chump. But I doubt you'll get it. NO MORE time wasted on my part.

Give my regards to your herd keeper. Bye.

Essentially, everyone already does pay for vaccinations, whether they get them or not. Most of the vaccines you receive as a child, which are available for free at public health centers, and these are funded by tax dollars. If your children don't get them, then you're just missing out on a benefit you've already paid for as a tax payer. Well, you're actually only missing out on part of the benefit; you still get to enjoy herd immunity.

What trailfoot and lorent are essentially suggesting is internalizing externalities in the public health expense equation. There is a cost associated with preventable diseases (human suffering, lost productivity, medical costs, sometimes lingering disability). A person who contracts these diseases accrues personal costs for it, and a person who transmits these diseases to others accrues public costs for it. So basically charging a person for willfully putting themselves at risk for harboring disease is just a form of preemptive civil liability. If you were to contract a preventable disease, you could pass it to any number of people; not only would it be nearly impossible to track and prove who you infected, but you would be unable to pay for all the potential health costs those people incured. So instead you'd pay a set fee for being unvaccinated, which accounts for the likely social costs of each individual carrier in a disease outbreak. I'm sure you'd rather pay that set fee for non-vaccination than actually be civilly liable for every person you might infect with whatever disease, including flu. Factor in hospital visits and missed days at work, and each "victim" could really add up and bankrupt you. Of course, you might also just wish to actually get the vaccine, if your risk-taking wasn't free. (And risk-taking is never actually free; the cost comes in the form of an externality, speaking in economic terms.)

Note that this logic doesn't apply to diseases with controllable transmission routes, because people can avoid infection through behavior. So one should not be penalized for failure to get, say, the HPV shot, because there are other practical ways to avoid HPV infection. But you can't realistically avoid contracting or transmitting airborne flu virus.

Kids have to have, like what-- fifty thousand shots by the time they hit kindergarden now????
That's WAY too much new world order forced immunization.

Agreed!!!! I only allowed one shot per visit, and with the HIB vaccine, if you wait till 18 months, they only need one dose instead of 4. Does that make any sense?

It makes perfect sense. The reason some vaccinations are given in increments is b/c if the entire thing was given at once, it could make the infant really sick or even die from it. It's too much at once for their undeveloped immune systems to handle. By 18 mos their immune systems are fully developed & they can handle the HIB in one dose. It's the parents' choice if they want to start protecting their child earlier or later. One shot at a time is the norm. You can't give a baby every single vaccination they need all at once unless you want to kill it.

This seed is not about vaccinating children, but adults. I wish ppl would pay attn & stay on topic instead of blathering about anything that pops into their heads.

Are you talking about a family of 4 adults? That's not exactly common. A nuclear family would only cost $50, not $100, since children can receive their flu shots for free at a public health center. If your family of 4 scenario is a single parent with 3 children, then it could be only $25 to vaccinate the whole family.

I would never get the HPV shot

And anyone who makes their daughter get one is just plain dumb.

A shot for your daughter because everyone assumes she will go ahead and have unprotected sex?
That's the most ludicrous concept I've ever heard.

Refusing to vaccinate her because you assume she won't, and putting her at risk of an incurable and possibly deadly disease for one indiscretion sounds worse to me.

Yet so many will go and have unprotected sex. And even if you have protected sex, it doesn't matter! HPV isn't stopped my condoms. Perhaps a little limited, but not stopped. Any skin to skin contact can spread HPV. And yea, your daughters are going to have sex. Virtually all of them anyhow. And most aren't waiting for marriage. And when they do it, they aren't going to tell you about it. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you like, but that is just the way it is.

I don't know what the level of risk with the HPV vaccine is, but it is likely low. Giving a few anecdotal examples about negative reactions to it proves nothing. The fact of the matter is that thousands of women DIE every year from cervical cancer and others have to have hysterectomies and such or chemo to make it through. This vaccine is new and perhaps shouldn't be pushed too early, but unless the downsides of the vaccine exceed the downsides of cervical and other cancers, pushing against it is misguided.

Unfortunately, dumb people think that if a vaccine has any potential side effects, no matter how miniscule, it is something to be avoided and fought against. There is no arguing with stupidity.

So you are just going to believe any doctor or nurse coming at you with a needle saying "oh don't worry - the side effects are miniscule"????
THAT'S stupidity.

I'll believe science - the full, overwhelming consensus of the scientific community - over a Playboy model and a discredited ex-doctor.

I know the statistical costs of not taking the shot. The costs of taking it are miniscule to nonexistent. You don't seem to understand that though.

And anyone who makes their daughter get one is just plain dumb.

A shot for your daughter because everyone assumes she will go ahead and have unprotected sex?
That's the most ludicrous concept I've ever heard.

Everyone has unprotected sex. There wouldn't be any procreation if they didn't. And everyone lies about how many partners they've had or if they've ever had an STD, b/c if they went around saying they had 100 notches on their bedpost & just got thru w/ a raging case of the clap, no one would sleep w/ them. You're delusional if you "assume" your daughter isn't going to have unprotected sex. Ppl do get caught up in "the heat of the moment" & forget. Men dislike wearing condoms & the female condom has never caught on. Males are carriers of HPV. They can't get cervical cancer, but they can increase your daughter's risk of getting it every time they ride bareback.

I would never get any vaccinations as an adult. I have MS and I believe the the Hep B shot is the reason why I have MS. I do not vaccinate my daughter. She has never been sick. All my friends children are always sick. She never had a diaper rash or a fever nothing. We need to start thinking for ourselves and question everything. Just because they say it is ok does not mean it is so. The Pharmacuitical companies make billions of dollars off of us. The funny thing is that I am always seeing commericals where they are have class action law suit for different drugs out on the market. I would never get the HPV shot. Women around the world have been dieing from getting that shot. All I am saying is just be careful what you do and don't believe everything that you hear.

Maybe your friends' children are always sick b/c your unvaccinated kid is making them sick?

Source for ppl dying all over the world from Gardasil, please?

Drs don't know what causes MS.

http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/calc.html#calc

This is the National Vaccine Information Center's Vaccine Ingredients Calculator. It goes by either CDC's recommended schedule, or you can enter the name, producer & dosage of a particular vaccine. Sobering information, and NOT from the whackos.

I don't believe vaccinations cause autism. There may be a genetic 'trigger' at work in some way, (still waiting for the studies currently being done), but no proof yet. I DO believe it is naive to believe everything you are told by the government/drs/cdc, or anyone else. There are and have been many cases, (see CDC reports on Vaccination Reactions), of seizures, paralysis, memory loss, aphasia, etc. as a direct result of vaccinations, and a good number of those are adult reactions. It is just like any other drug; the list of possible side effects is staggering. It is also naive to believe that the money made off of drugs and vaccines is negligible and is not one of the motivating factors for pharmaceutical companies. The H1N1 vaccine was on the market in less than one year. Do you REALLY believe it was fully tested? Do you honestly believe this is so safe that you shouldn't be able to get a regular flu vaccine without it AND the H1N3 (which is an even newer strain)?? Yet if you got a flu shot this year, it had all 3.

Overall, yes, vaccinations have saved many lives. The pure fact behind the issue are that vaccines are made by humans, who are fallible. There is no way vaccines are perfect and do not do any harm at all. The problem comes at deciding what percentage of damage is acceptable, and most people agree it is whenever it affects them personally. The truth is that we DO NOT fully know the repercussions / ramifications of the widespread use of vaccines.

If there is no way for you to get a copy of your immunization record you can have titers drawn. (simple bloodwork) They will measure your immunity to different diseases and be able to tell what you need to have shots for still. This will show your immunity whether you are naturally immune to something or immune because you received a vaccine.

The downside is, insurance doesn't always cover these tests.

Oh wow. I'm sorry, but you're happy that the state has a record of your child's (and your own) medical records?? You're happy that Big Brother is watching you? This is why our country is becoming a Police State - the sheeple want one! I hate to quote Star Wars, but Padme's line in Revenge of the Sith fits perfectly: "So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."

Nope, Polio cases were in decline before the vaccination came out. Read the "Vaccination" Book by Neil Z. Miller)....All the real facts about vaccinations are in there (taken from Top medical journals).

quackery

What are you worried about. If your kids are vaccinated who cares if sick ones come around or not. Your kids are protected right? I thought you believed in the vaccines?

Before you call it child abuse, do your homework and read "REAL" facts from studies done about vaccinations! There is nothing wrong with educating yourself and always "questioning" what is REALLY going into your body. Believe me, i have always believed in vaccinations UNTIL i started digging deep into the reality and REAL facts. We need to protect our children and NOT educating yourself is a form of child abuse to your kids. Pediatricians always push it on us, but are they really necessary? don't just go along with what they tell you to do. RESEARCH it! it will blow your mind!

Steve, if my child has an immune disorder and you don't vaccinate your child, you're putting my child at risk. Herd immunity is one of the primary advantages of vaccines.

Mini, I'd like to see those studies that you claim discredit the value of vaccines. Show us your research - and remember- "Google" is not synonymous with the word "research." Also, playboy playmates are not considered valid sources, nor are doctors who falsify ther research data. Keeping these things in mind - go right ahead, show us that research.

There are many books published that have actual links to reports from top/reputable Medical journals all around the world. Here is one of many books to get your feet wet on this subject: Vaccinations - by Neil Z. Miller

I always recommend parents who are 50/50 (not sure) about vaccinating their kids to read the Dr. Sears Book. He's not against it 100% , but he recommends to spread them out because of the risks. If you must, this is the smartest way to go.

Hey, don't get upset that some people care enough to actually read and do research on their own. We do it because we care about our children. I don't "Just believe" everything they tell me...most doctors are puppets to the pharmaceutical companies anyway! Oh, and by the way, a lot of doctors don't even vaccinate their own kids.

Don't read books on science. Read the actual studies, and learn to discern a good study from a bad one.

Mini, I am curious ... where did you read about all those "FACTS"? I can Google just as well as the next person. Personally, I question most of what I put in my body. I eat healthy and exercise (unlike most of America). I don't take over the counter medicine unless absolutely necessary. BUT, I regard vaccines against major diseases as absolutely necessary. No amount of exercise or vitamins is going to protect me or my children against diseases like measles. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry has gotten out of control (not sleepy? TAKE Lunesta! Not feeling ok today? Take Lexapro!) but to not get a rubella or measles vaccine? It's just foolish (no matter what Jenny McCarthy says).

That's true since they finally removed it in most vaccines back in 2002.

Thanks for that info. I was reading about people making the mercury objections. I thought I had read somewhere that they use different preservatives now. But even if they still use mercury, those levels are very low. How many cans of tuna have I eaten? Hundreds I am sure...

Don't forget the mercury levels in food like shrimp and other seafood. Should we start boycotting Red Lobster for selling us food they know has mercury in it?!

And the EPA has warnings on the consumption of seafood and mercury.

I've never had a flu shot in my life. I've had the flu probably about 6 times in my life. I am still wondering why we even have a flu shot. Oh sure there are those that will point to flu pandemics. But current vaccines will do little for those as the virus continues to change every year.

Thousands of people die every year from complications of the flu. That is why we have the flu shot. I don't get them now, but when I get older, I might.

Steve, as the virus changes each year, so does the vaccine.

I may be mistaken but I thought that the flu vaccine we get every year only vaccinates for the virus from the previous year because it takes some time to make the vaccination. If someone knows differently, please correct me!

The flu season is staggered six months in the southern hemisphere. The scientists try to predict what strains are going around. They do have to guess. And they don't always guess right. And there is a lag time. But they aren't simply making something to combat the virus from the year before. I suppose it may include that one, too, though.

the only time I ever had the flu was when I was deployed with the army and they make you take flu shots (first time I had ever had the flu shot) since getting out I have never had the flu shot nor the flu. The flu shot is pointless for healthy young people. Let the elderly and the sick take it, but don't waste your time if you are neither, you will probably just find yourself getting sick.

Thanks Lorent!

Logically everyone who gets flu shots will get Gilllain Barre Syndrome now.

Can we get more scary stories posted here? I want everyone to be scared of vaccines of any sort.

Even if there are some downsides to the getting it, until the downsides of getting it outweigh the downsides of not taking it it still makes sense to take it.

You are gambling if you don't take it. Perhaps you are gambling if you do take it. But which is the better bet? We know thousands die who don't take it. Where are the thousands dying from taking it? Even if hundeds die taking it, if thousands would have died it make sense to take it.

Anecdotal cases do not prove it is the poorer bet to get the shot. For every bad outcome you bring up, there may be ten people still alive that are difficult to count. That is what studies are for.

Not true... there are plenty of natural herbs and remedies that can be taken on a regular basis that have natural ANTI-VIRAL and ANTI-BACTERIAL, ANTI-BIOTIC or ANTI-FUNGAL properties. Extra Virgin Coconut oil is one, Olive Leaf Extract is another, GARLIC, Colloidal Silver yet another and LDM-100 yet another. Shall I go on ? Not only will they PREVENT infection but they will also CURE infection by killing the virus, bacteria, fungus in its tracks. That goes for Herpes, HIV, influenza, shingles, measles .... etc etc.

Don't believe me... RESEARCH IT. Big Pharma sure the hell isn't going to let you in on it.

Can these things work? Yes. But everyone eats olive oil; if olive oil was a magical cure tincture we'd never catch any viral diseases ever.

Herbs won't fight HIV. Condoms, and currently-in-development vaccines and stem cell-based treatments will.

Smc -

Do you really think that herbs can cure Herpes and HIV?!?!?! If they could don't you think those that have those diseases would have figured it out and told other people?

keep goingf old buddy. Bravo!

Vaccines are nothing but a way for the elite to control the cattle herd. These elite don't care about us: THEY HATE US. When people finally wake up to that fact the eilite's house of cards will come tumbling down around them.

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover

Vaccines are nothing but a way for the elite to control the cattle herd.

Misinformation is nothing but a way for the elite to control the cattle herd.

There, fixed that for you.

So you never got any vaccines? Even as a kid? I'm not sure I believe that...

Wasn't the Polio still around then?

So you never got any vaccines? Even as a kid? I'm not sure I believe that...

It happens. Lot's of people don't get vaccines. You're are letting your fear guide you.