Becareful FringeDiv. you might just get accused of living off the government like the other poor saps. I am the generation that will be paying for the baby boomers and I don't have a problem with that...I only hope that when it is my time to collect the baby boomers haven't rigged the system to go against me or my peers. You hear all the older folks and boomers railing against the government and the "obama/romney care", but the very next breathis get your hands off my SS or Medicare, which are BOTH Government Programs. This is way I cannot get on board with these folks. It's ok not to touch my government aide, but for future aide, let's shake up the system for the younger generation paying into it. That doesn't sound fair to me. I know is that the next 5-10 years will be crazy as the boomers start to get much older and health will be more of an issue. Do we get control of healthcare cost or just let the system go as is? Note: the politicians has everyone fretting about social medicine, while their employer (the government) has the best healthcare plans for our dear representatives. Ponder that for a moment.

Medicare did not exist until 1965, so many of today's seniors did NOT "pay in all their lives" as so many insist.

I remember back in 1981 a class discussion in High School on this issue. Even back then, my peers saw little chance of any benefits from social security when they retired. To us even that far back, Social Security and Medicare were programs to benefit our parents and grandparents but not us. Today I see a world where 401k's, pensions and paid off homes are also benefits that do not apply to my generation.

The senior citizens of today have spent the past 30+ years voting to send this country over a cliff. They have gutted this nation of its very marrow leaving their children with nothing but starvation and death.

Social Security was a dead issue for my generation (I'm 47) even BEFORE George Bush added the prescription drug benefit to the plan. I do not remember any protest from AARP other than those condescending BS commercials they put on acting like they gave a damn about what happens to today's children when THEY grow old.

When I go to Casinos and watch senior citizens gamble away their Social Security checks on slot machines; checks that I must pay for but will never receive, I feel sick. (I was in the casinos seeking employment; not to gamble)

Today's senior citizens could have saved this country any time over the past 30 years. They could have voted for the Constitution (Constitution party) or for Liberty (Libertarian Party) but instead they voted for socialism; in spite of what they saw socialism doing to people in other countries.

Today's senior citizens sold their children's lives and futures for their social security checks. Thanks a F^%$ING lot OLD PEOPLE

Regan's tax cuts (the dot com bubble) plus Bush's tax cuts (the housing bubble) = greed. No one cares about our children. Can they vote?

It won't be around for an extended time because Democrats are going to destroy the best health care system in the history of human existence. Just stand by and watch what unfolds over the next 10 years.

Hello,

FringeDivision, according to your self report, you began paying into SS when you were only 4 (four) years old. We live in the USA and our child labor laws make your contrived scenario impossible.

Be Well,

Medicare and social security was funded fine until both democrats and republicans got their greedy paws on it. Using that money to fund useless wars and pet projects...... I guess everyone seem to forget who to really blame

gary, we have the most expensive health care, not the best.

Maybe if the hospitols didn't charge more for a single aspirin than a whole bottle you can buy at the store, Medicare and SS would be better off. They figure since the tax payers are footing the bill, they can charge 20x the going rate for things. $1060.00 billed to us tax payers for a 60 pill script of Oxycotin.

Our politicians have raided the coffers, but not nearly the amount the hospitols and insurance companies have billed us tax payers.

Here is something for the younger generation to chew on; you say we older folks should have saved more? Guess who consumed most of our paychecks - spoiled brats who were never satisfied with one or two toys, and only on special occasions. You greedy little worms used every excuse in the book to con your parents into giving you 1000 times more than we ever got. Who paid for your college - our parents didn't even ask us about college, let alone pay for it.

My investment is my son - he is currently over half way through med school - and guess what - he totally gets what we have sacrificed for him in order to have it better than we did - and is more than willing to care for us in our old age...happy chewing.

Mike in NY -- No Mike, we have the best health care system that has ever existed. The richest people around the world, who could go anywhere, come here for treatment when sick. That's the proof of the pudding. The Saudi Arabian king recently came here , not Great Brittan, or France, or Canada , or anywhere else. Any knowledgeable person if given the choice and the resources would chose the USA. Be proud of our accomplishments; there will be few in the future after the Democrats finish with our system. Its excellence will tarnish and we will be no different that anyone else. Then we can embrace the equality of mediocrity delivered to us by socialism.

Gary

Money changes everything. You don't have access to that care. So you don't have the best, they do. Just like everything else.

Gary, while your examples lend me believe that this country may have the best physicians, as long as we still have sick people dying by the thousands every year because they cannot afford treatment, I will never agree that we have the best health care system.

Drain,

It is the kids fault that parents spoil them?

Your generation is the most spoiled, self-centered generation of them all. You blame everyone else for all the problems you have either created or made worse. On top of that, you expect your children (and everyone else's children) to pay for your messes.

All of the comments I have read have much validity. Overall, we have all lost our freedoms, our voice and our ability to change anything in our governments policies -- or we wouldn't be in this economic mess. But, have no fear, if our government keeps up it's foolish, ignorant ways and poor policy and decision making which favors THEM -their lobbyists and special interests on Wall Street we won't have to worry about retirement.... we may have to worry more about a war. China and Russia are laughing all the way to the bank.... once they have greater economic control.. they will go for the gold a US takeover!!! If you don't believe it... start reading things that NBC/CBS and most of the other controlled media won't tell you!! Wake up America.... the least of your worries is Medicare and Social Security. For those of you who want to read some truth go to CoasttoCoast and read books that are offered through that venue. You will be surprised at what our government doesn't want you to know.

We PAID FOR IT!!! :)

@JEM - If you're planning on relying on your Social Security to fully fund your retirement, you just haven't been paying attention. It was NEVER intended as such. It was meant to supplement your retirement only.

The Conservative, Market Fundamentalist shift, over 30 years, was largely sponsored by Boomer voters.

Any struggling Boomer that voted Republican, over the last 30 years, is getting exactly what they voted for.

As an educational exercise I took my recent Social Security statement showing the projected payout at the time of my retirement, escalated it at 3% per year as an assumed inflation rate till I hit 80. I then entered in all of the years of earnings from when I started working in 1967 till the current 2010 year. Multiplied each years earnings times the percentage of social security payments (both worker and employer). Then assumed a 3% compounded interest on each of those years of payments to Social Security. If I retired this coming Monday January 3rd, 2011 I would only get 31 cents on the dollar back no matter whether I requested Social Security at 62, 66 or 70.

While I agree with the Social Security concept as it kept my in-laws above water, I disagree with the way our politicians have stolen the money to pay for other things over the years. As such I'm relying on my 401k and Roth accounts to get me through retirement.

MeHere-1865442....I guess you are stupid. Didn't you go to school? I am 54 years old, I've been working a full time job since I was 13 years old, and had to retire at 45, almost 46, so you do the math you low brow uneducated Moron!

Medicare did not exist until 1965, so many of today's seniors did NOT "pay in all their lives" as so many insist.

Exactly. It's the much-maligned baby boomers who have been supporting Medicare financially for their entire working lives.

No Mike, we have the best health care system that has ever existed. The richest people around the world, who could go anywhere, come here for treatment when sick.

If your criteria for a health care system is how well it treats the richest people in the world, I guess you're right. If your criteria is whether it provides quality care at reasonable cost to the actual people who live in a country, ours has failed miserably, especially how much money has been poured into it. American health care is rife with overtreatment, unacceptable outcomes, medical errors, exorbitant expense, and anemic public health policies. Does that sound like the best system in the world to you?

Hello,

FringeDivision, You wrote: “(33 years), and as of 2003,” and “retire early (at 45).” That would be 12 and not 13 and you would now be 52 and not 54. Please get your contrived story corrected.

Be Well,

You fail to understand. The only way to save the system is to have Social Security offices at all boader crossings to issue Social Security numbers to anyone foolish enough to enter.

Even that won't save the system.
Another Ponzi scheme waiting to fall.The only ? is what will fall first
Social Security or Medicare.

" won't be around for an extended time because Democrats are going to destroy the best health care system in the history of human existence"

You know in countries with nationalized health care, I hear that when they get debating it a common refrain against those who are complaining is "Well what do you want to do, go to the American system?" And the reply is usually no.

We have the most expensive health care system in the world and those of us who care about the statistics know that we’re 24^th in life expectancy and 37^th in quality of health care worldwide. I have no problem being number one on all counts but it looks like most of our elected Senators and Congressmen in Washington who have a luxury health care package do not. If our health care statistics were the win loss records for a basketball or football coach they would have long since been FIRED!

That's why I was for and am still for the recent health care changes. In my opinion they did not go far enough!

vote libertarian

What out who you vote for! Special interests are rampant and, the China model seems to be in "vogue" these days.... No child labor laws, no safety regs, slave wages, absulutely NO rights for the workers...A TOTALITARIAN CORPORACY, run by COMMUNISTS no less! This is the "new" way of doing business in America! We've gone back to the Robber Baron giulded age days of the early 20th century....History repeats itself! What out who you vote for...they might have the Bible in the "left" hand and, the DAGGER in the"right"!!!!

What do you mean when you say "What out" ?

NotMelinda, ignore Deathnell, he hasn't the education to put one sentence together let alone one word.

The results of our "Educational System" and teacher's unions. Sad.

What = Watch I believe.

MikeinNY, thankyou. Watch is exactly what I meant to say!

Rummy....razzberries for ya!

NotMelinda, what up?? Wha happenin'???

:^)

DJ,Obama's aunt received all benefits when she was an ILLEGAL.
That was illegal on her part. But, instead of being prosecuted she was awarded
legality for her crimes.

Bruce, do you honestly expect anything different from ANY of "today's" politicians? They are all in the SCREW THE PEOPLE PARTY!!! Party, for them, HELL for us!! Our votes are but a mere smoke screen, the division that these a "parties" have been causing is very effective! Since we are all "so" busy fighting each other, it gives them plenty of room to play with our LIVES!!!!

Your quick to assume that the illiegals are causing a deficit in the Social Security System, but a Social Security Administration study estimated that the illegal aliens add four years to the solvency of the Social Security system.

See USA article: http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

May be naive, but I'm not sure illegals get these benefits.

Undocumented workers contribute about $7B a year to Social Security and Medicare but are not eligible for either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

If you want to pay his medical bills, then go for it.

I think their talking about social security not medicare. Social Security was started in 1935 and medicare came in 1965, so when most seniors say they have paid their whole lives they are probably talking about S.S. and it is true. Because seniors didn't have health care, medicare was established.

One way to hold down SS costs is to stop people from taking it at 62. If you can work than you should have to wait until your time at 66 or 67. None of us want to, but that's a lot of money that they are forking out for perfectly (well, maybe not perfectly) healthy people to sit back and collect. If you collect early you collect less but it's still a lot of money going out. It's a sacrifice that we just have to make.

That's the way big business and our government (one and the same) want it. It will take them awhile, but they will get there

Agree.

We, the people, must do something to prevent this

Agree.

Like, actually using our heads when VOTING.

While this is good advice, unfortunately it will have little effect on an individual's working life as far as debt. It is up to them to work and spend.

Public schools and the media convince us to overconsume, to keep us in the work/spend cycle.

About 9 years ago I found out it was far easier to not spend $10 than it is to earn $15. By using the masses of overspent consumers as cover (they keep the companies making useless products in business), I am able to work less and spend less with relative ease.

Here's a quick litmus test to see if you are overspent:

1. Owe more than 2x household income on mortgage, school loans and cars combined.

2. If after working 10 years you can't afford to take one year off without pay, you've spent more than 90% of what you earned.

Forget the current generation of OLD PEOPLE. What about us and our kids when THEY get old. Today's seniors have been voting to spend the future on themselves for 30+ years. My sympathy is therefor muted.

hey JEM: your parents are old farts, it is the freeloaders, and flower power lefties who have broken the bank.

The bank was broken by those who have insisted on voting Democrat and Republican (left and right wing socialism) over the past 30+ years knowing all along there was no possibility their children could enjoy the benefits they had. Neither Dem or Rep parties ever had this countries interests at heart.

If you voted for John McCain on the last election, you really need to read this.

"http://amconmag.com/article/2010/jul/01/00010/"

If I was serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would be very glad I was fighting under Obama instead of McCain. This article will make my logic very clear.

It was the Democrats who led the US into both world wars, Korea and Vietnam. It was Republicans who led the country out of Korea and Vietnam. The Democratic party is the party of war.

It was Nixon who severed the last link between a gold standard and the dollar setting the stage for our current economic tragedy. Had Nixon kept our Federal Reserve restrained, we would not be in our current mess and my career in manufacturing would not have been ruined.

Republicans are never in favor of fiscal responsibility, controlling government growth or cutting actual spending while they are in power. Republicans only speak constructively when they are serving under Democrats.

It was W and his neocon Republican cronies who started 2 wars and CUT TAXES.

It is the only time in the history of the country when taxes were reduced while we were at war.

So don't even start the "blame the Democrats" routine. It makes you look like you have the memory and reasoning capacity of an emu.

This train wreck has been predicted, discussed and written about in columns for over 30 years. Today's senior citizens just didn't care.

Those who sounded the alarm loudly were labeled as "ME GENERATION".

Today's seniors could have stopped this train wreck any time over the past 30 years but they valued their SS and Medicare more than their children's lives.

I say to he11 with today's senior citizens. They deserve nothing but the early death they have left for their kids.

Wow Jem

you are a pessimist. Don't bother thinking deeper that the surface. Come up with a solution that doesn't involve whining. I agree with a poster above that the money spent went to creating the brats who don't understand how the system is set this way by the money at the top. It is the profit motive (unrestrained) that makes healthcare too expensive. It is the profit motive that prompts lawyers work. It is profit and the unwillingness to prioritize our national need against the "need" of the money power.

It was the Democrats who led the US into both world wars, Korea and Vietnam. It was Republicans who led the country out of Korea and Vietnam. The Democratic party is the party of war.

Are you ignorant or just demagoguing?

Find a way to hide your investments so that there isn't a paper trail leading to them. Well buried gold or a stock of undocumented guns might work best.

So JEM, are you giving ALL your money to your kids (if you have any)? If not, you're SELFISH! (by your logic)

The left? The money is conservative. The money didn't make jobs. The money just pocketed. You are addled by the left right dichotomy. The left. Ha ha.

The left is doing it's level best to protect your butt. Put the blame where it belongs, please.

The what agenda? The progressives have been working hard to protect the American people from being completely outsourced to the agenda of big business, wall street and other interests. The conservative agenda would have you begging in the street for a scrap of bread the roof over your head would be cardboard and your health would be at the mercy of an emergency room that could decide whether to treat you or not.

And you are a fool to your masters. You are bollixed. They have conditioned your thinking. Profit makers are the cause of the problem. Welath distribution up through capitalism is the problem. Greed is the problem. It is greed that makes you gnash your teeth.

kedbob nobody does anything for nothing. this has be true from the foundation.

Edwardo is living proof that if you tell the lie enough times no overwhelming preponderance of fact will over come it. He'll go to his grave believing this crap. I feel bad for people like him.

The policies you are speaking of, what are they precisely?

Would those be the ones that reduced taxes on the wealthiest Americans, thus reducing overall revenues and raising national debt?

Or would those be the ones that started two wars?

Or would those be the ones that allowed even rewarded those companies that created jobs overseas at the expense of US jobs?

Maybe it would be the ones that created the massive trade imbalance?

Tell me which ones are you talking about, would love to know.

Money makes the fraud. Money can't be wrong in this country. The wealthy steal what they can't sneak out by skimming the operation.

The fraud is being discussed, right at the highest levels, for the first time in years. Policies have been put in place to curtail waste and fraud, and the right calls it "cuts." It's now our fault you don't listen when these important issues are being discussed.

The USA is a democracy; or at least was until the last few years. Today's senior citizens spent the past 30+ years voting for one socialist exertion after another until they finally ruined the nation for their children. This is not the fault of Big Business; this is the fault of voters in past elections.

If you want to save this country, I beg you to VOTE LIBERTARIAN.

Don't blame business for the sins of the STATE.

The USA is a republic not a democracy.

The U.S. is a Democratic Republic. Please people, read your civics books.

Our founding fathers wanted it that way so that the majority would not be able to dictate to the minorities.

Honestly, if you people cannot make out the meaning of how our government works, then you have no right to assert statements that are based on your own biased mindset.

Who voted for social security? Was there a referendum? Or were representatives in our democratic republic off the leash?

If the United States was a democratic republic, our representatives would have to vote exactly as we tell them. They don't, your civics book is wrong. As for voting libertarian, that's a great idea if you want to live by the company store. Look how well libertarian ideals worked out for Appalachia. Take government protection away, like libertarian business men want, and they control everything from your working conditions to your education. That's the dirty little secret they don't want you to know. Why do you suppose they want to get rid of the department of education? And the department of Agriculture? Those rules on "safe food" cut into the obscene profits they want to make. And social security/medicare? Say goodbye to that right away. If you vote libertarian, you may as well follow up by cutting your families throats, followed by your own. Learn the truth about these people before you make a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your short life.

In other words, if your young stay healthy because young people cannot expect anywhere near the healthcare of their parents generation.

Thanks a lot OLD PEOPLE

JEM, I'm getting sick of your whining. Take a part time job at a homeless shelter and find out what you have been missing.

You come across as a spoiled ignorant brat who hasn't had his breast-feeding for the day.

Do something constructive and find out how the other half lives.

Yeah

Jem, work for it. Take it from the top. Social security was gutted by uses other than originally intended. You can thank you political leaders.

Billie, excellent advice that isn't stressed enough.

JEM, just eat a bullet would ya? One less "Old Person" to worry about in the future. Sheesh.

All of today's senior citizens knew this was coming for at least 30 years. They just didn't care.

Vote LIBERTARIAN. Save your kids.

eduardo you remain ensconced in your fantasy of blame. Deadwood and freeloaders indeed. Sounds like you and Jem missed the boat. A libertarian vote would result in the capping of business dominance over government. It's bad enough now when business buys the government and works to keep people down. I have as much respect for bank robbers.

I don't know what you do, however consider what a great number of us do in this economy and that is consult in our field. Surprisingly it is fairly lucrative and while it doesn't have the same benefits many organizations are more than happy to bring on us older experienced resources at good rates as consultants.

Start an LLC, protect your earnings. Do some internet searches for others in your field who might be in the same boat and start at network. Join LinkedIn and form a group. I have been doing this for a few years now and doing pretty well.

You have totally invested in the lie.

I am always in shock to see all of the excuses people are willing to give to the politicians who have caused all of this MONSTROSITY!

If the liberals weren,t hellbent on deluting medicare with their BS! not free health care! (it will raise the cost of everything the middle class and poor will be hardest hit) people wouldn't have to worry about their future health care. You cannot spend all of that money on everyone and expect that money to be their for our emergencies and our elderly.

Show us your math. In my math less people on medicare using that service costs all of the tax payers less money.

Somehow?????

Your insane math tells you that flooding our medicare with everyone will be cheaper.

Some how My math brain must have missed the part of the equation Where everyone now pays for medicare and do not all use it. They are suporting the system and suporting less people.

Many people prefer privet insurance and that is a math win for this country. They still do pay for medicare.

Don't we collect taxes from the insurance Businesses? How much money are we losing on that bad financial move?

How many taxable incomes do we lose on that bad financial move.

We have traditionally put the people who are in need at times of emergencies on medicare along with our old people and this is fine but it is ridiculous to put everyone on this system and force it into failure.

Since you refuse to hear the people they have spoken and they have said NO!

The way you spend LOL how many people or businesses can you afford to put out of business? How much in lost revenues have you cost us? How much more of our revenues will you force out of business with your insane tax rules and unaffordable ideas.

If we had surplus money everyone would want to try some new things.

The real fact is we don't and we wont (NOT EVER) if this continues.

When all the tax payers are gone, who will pay for all of your unaffordable delusions?

The liberals MUST destroy the entire country. the elderly who they seem to hate with a passion. Who else is to blame for your incompetence?

Act like grown ups! We do not have the money and we must make cut backs. The people of this country do NOT want to increase the cost of living and lose their jobs for you. This will not help anyone in the middle class or the poor.

If you worked for me I would fire you!

You're right. I'm planning my retirement as if Social Security won't exist when I am of an age to draw it. I have a fairly large income and am self-employed, so I pay a good bit into SS, but don't expect to get anything out of it. I'd rather have the money to invest privately, as my retirement fund is doing pretty well. I realize there are risks to private investment, but they seem to me to be outweighed by the risks of trusting the government to provide for me. I hate to see what my son, who is 6, will go through to retire.