I think most normal parents would be concerned about whether or not that they are doing the right thing in getting their kids vaccinated in the face of so much conflicting noise and information. I felt the same way when my 10 yr old was an infant - but in the end, not vaccinating seemed a lot more dangerous and risky to me than the very slight chance that our son would have an adverse reaction associated with getting vaccinations. (And I'm talking about KNOWN risks, not speculation.)

Just how far will they go for money? I believe and studies prove that the vaccines ARE connected to AUTISM!!!! They say that ASPARTAME and FLUORIDE are good for you too!!! SUCH LIARS!!!!

I think the reason so many folks put creadence in this study is that we have a fast climbing rate of Autism in this country and we just don't know why.

We have an autistic child in the family and I would not want to wish that on anyone and if I thought there was a contributing cause, I would try to tell the world like Jenny McCarthy has done. A poster suggested these mothers acted like they "have mad-cow disease." Unbelivable ignorance.

This is the ONLY study done, which ONLY looked at 12 children. 12 children, all from the same neighborhood, does not adequately represent a population. I knew this so-called study was bogus when I first heard of these details. I am not surprised by this "new" revelation that the guy is a fraud. If you read the article, since the study was published, several further studies have been done, and NO-ONE was able to link autism to vaccines. Insisting that it is a lie only hurts those children who have autism because a REAL treatment/cure will not otherwise be found!

But then the real question is-Why the sudden spike in autism? This is what needs to be answered.

The only study? Try the real life experiences that parents deal with when they get their child home from getting the MMR shot and have a seizing child hours later. It doesn't take some doctor or rocket scientist to say there's an association. I've lived it and believe me, there is.

What the aarticle should have told you is there are many parents who brought their child home from getting a vaccine and saw seizing (sometimes leading to death) hours later. Or when a parent can see an immediate change in their children, including decreased attention span, innability to communitcate, etc. All diagnosable signs of autism. Don't believe one article, because for this ONE article there are ONE MILLION parents who can tell you there is a link. My family is included in that one million who will tell you, some children can develop autism from vaccines.

This vaccine study is of course true, after all the rise in Autism could not possibly be caused by improvements in diagnosis and by Autism being a term that covers a large specturm of disorders.

This rates right up there will Al Gore's claims of Global warming even while he conveniently didn't publish certain information that would have discounted his theory. People will believe anything, if you only give them half the facts.

No one ever claimed that vaccines caused all cases of autism. It's a mixture of genetics and enviromental causes. People can continue to believe everything they read (such as this article) but, you'll just be more ignorant after it.

Essemess,

Thank you. The number of disorders that are now considered to be on the autism spectrum has increased. If you broaden the definition of autism, of course there will be a spike in the number of cases. Statistics can be manipulated.

So whos going to jail?

This study has been known to be fraud for some time. They uncovered records that Wakefield was paid by an attorney who was representing plaintiffs in a vaccine-autism case to falsify the data. This was done so the lawyer could win a big judgement - which by the way did not happen even with the faked study.

Anyone who says that the vaccine fund has paid out for claims that vaccines caused autism is lying through their teeth. This has never occurred and challenge anyone to provide a case/docket number for any such suit that has prevailed. There have been numerous studies done that refute any linkage between vaccinations and autism. In reality, it is not the vaccinations that were claimed to cause the autism, it was a product called Thimerosal that was used as a preservative in vaccines. No study has been able to find any link between Thimerosal and autism, and there have been dozens of studies done. In addition most, if not all vaccines given today no longer contain Thimerosal and have not for about 5-10 years.

Wakefield should be banned from practicing medicine anywhere in the world. He should also have all of his assets seized as illegal profits from his fraud. The money can then be used to compensate the children who came down with preventable diseases and were harmed because their parent believe Wakefield nonsense and did not get them vaccinated. As for Jenny McCarthy and the rest of the celebs - Anyone who takes medical advice from some celebrity who has no medical training is an idiot. The only reason I feel sorry for people is that I feel sorry for the kids whose parents were so stupid as to listen to these wingnuts. The children wound up paying for their parents ignorance and lack of common sense.

Its funny how anti-vaccine supporters discount masses of scientific research against their views while endorsing a couple of anecdotes as truth.

The biggest authorities on Autism --- do not know very much about Autism. It is wrong to call it a disorder, especially the less severe ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorders) including Asperger Syndrome. I am a mature adult of 55 years of age and I grew up with Asperger Syndrome. I also, mostly, have grown out of it. I am not very eloquent with public speaking, but I am very good communicating one on one, and in writing. In any of my communications I have trouble reading my audience.

With the right child rearing techniques, I believe even the most severe Autism difference cases can grow up to have normal or even exceptional lives. Many of the most successful men and women through history have had Aspergers Syndrome.

I believe the Autism Spectrum, much like many other "disorder" spectrums including ASD, ADHD, bipolar, and even Schizophrenia are part of the human genome. I believe that genetics through the course of our evolution has created a wide array of human behavioral, neuroprocessing, data storage, analytical, and psychological genetic traits. Just like other genetic information that determines physical traits, psychological traits are expressed and interact across broad spectrums, and are expressed in human populations in statistical bell curves. A very small number of people will have a very strong expression of the trait, a large number will have a moderate expression of the trait, and a very small number will have a weak expression of the trait.

Combined, thousands of traits determines who we are, how we sense the world around us, and how we process that information. Severe autism is the rare circumstance when a certain combination of traits have very strong or very weak expression. What we call disorders, in my opinion is actually merely a different expression of traits in the human population. All people, no matter how they are born or how they relate to others has a right to confront the challenges of life and experience success or failure. Society needs all of these traits --- or at least needed them when we were evolving -- as hunter gatherers, in order for the genes to survive and continue to be expressed through reproduction.

The autism spectrum in modern society does much of the numerical analysis required in engineering, architecture, the sciences, and even in business finance. I say congratulations if you have a child on the autism spectrum. And if a child has the extreme expression of several traits that combine to cause the "disorder" call autism, then there are ways to teach that child what she/he needs to know to live what THEY would call a normal and fulfilling life. YOU may not call it normal or fulfilling, but then, it isn't YOUR life! It is time to get off the backs of the autism spectrum, and let them get back to the business of making the world a better place.

A big party of the problem the ASD must face in the world, is another disorder that exists in the population, what I call "SOCIAL DOMINANCE DISORDER". Those with social dominance disorder (SDD) react viscerally and often violently when confronted with an ASD. These people run the world, because they believe that they have to be in charge -- that they have the divine right to be in charge. They think they are "normal", but they are just as aberrant as the rest of us. They bully and torment their "lesser", and have some kind of biological urge, to especially torment the ASD. The biggest thing society could do for the ASD is to get the SDD off their back.

Gary,

THANK YOU for an excellant and helpful comment.

As a mother of a child within the spectrum, I applaud your success, honesty and the great hope you have given so many people tonight!

Didn't Penn and Teller debunk this @!$%# a year ago?? Misinformation is dangerous.

Gary...

I also applaud you. As a mother of a 12 y.o. son with an Asperger's DX I could understand so much of what you said... and look forward to my son's development and impact on our world. He asked me once if it "bothered me" that he has an Autism "disorder"... I said "No, does it bother you?" and he said "No. I like being different"... Wish we all had that self-confidence and self-acceptance... As the years pass, I realize what a "gift" this young man, my son, truly is. Thank you for sharing. Kudos to you!

after all the rise in Autism could not possibly be caused by improvements in diagnosis and by Autism being a term that covers a large specturm of disorders.

You don't understand. It isn't just PDD and Aspergers that have increased. Full blown, classical autism, the type nobody could have missed 50 years ago OR today, has increased enormously and that DOES require an explanation.

GenericName wrote:

Its funny how anti-vaccine supporters discount masses of scientific research against their views while endorsing a couple of anecdotes as truth.

There's nothing funny about it at all! It's very scary how many parents jump on the no vaccine bandwagon due to this one "study". A coworker of mine even convinced a pregnant coworker not to have the flu vaccine because it can harm her fetus. Of course the girls ob-gyn recommends the vaccine.

use the

herro

tags.

Autism is being diagnosed more because we understand the disorders better and we are defining it and the whole spectrum better.

Could there be environmental reasons? Sure. It could be things we ingest, it could be things we are exposed to that have an effect. But, the SCIENCE says it is not related directly to the vaccines. It is wrong for the misinformed or uninformed to scare parents the world over. As a parent, I had concerns. I spoke to the pediatricians, I did my research, and I made what I believed was a good decision. My children are healthy and now they are also protected.

You don't understand. It isn't just PDD and Aspergers that have increased. Full blown, classical autism, the type nobody could have missed 50 years ago OR today, has increased enormously and that DOES require an explanation.

Either you don't understand or you are exaggerating beyond belief. My brother is 45 years old and he is severely autistic. NO ONE was able to diagnose his autism until he was nine years old! To say that children with "full blown" autism were easily diagnosed 50 years ago is simply not true. Mothers were told that they didn't love their children and that was the problem. Haven't you heard the term "refrigerator mother?"

The thing is, if young parents had asked their parents or grandparents about immunizations, they would have said...."no one had autism when we were young and ALL of us had to have our shots to begin school in the first grade." I can't believe the balls that this doctor had to make up this stuff in the first place. Think of the harm he has caused to millions upon millions of parents and children, who weren't given their innoculations. Whooping cough has reared its ugly head again and it hadn't been heard of for decades. Whooping cough DOES sometimes kill its victims. What about small pox, polio vaccine...diptheria...tetanus etc?

This man needs to be strung up. PERIOD.

I make this comment as someone who has absolutely LOVED and FOUGHT FOR the Autisitc children that I have cared for, to the point of leaving my career to go back to school for Occupational Therapy to be able to help them acclimate to society. And to the parents of autistic children, please get them as much therapy as you can and try any healthy diet that might help. I can't say any ONE remedy can heal them, but some diets and many therapies can make things easier, as long as they are not detrimental to their overall health.

That said... I will not say a broad statement that ALL vaccines work always. But I will say that I personally tested the Rabies vaccine that many of you have given to your dogs and cats. And it worked. Specifically, the Merial IMRAB, yes, according to USDA testing regulations(I did other vaccines as well) I was required to test EVERY SINGLE SERIAL of vaccine we produced, by vaccinating a certain amount of mice with the vaccine, and then seven days after their booster shot, I personally injected the rabies virus into the brains of those same mice (and some control mice to make sure the virus would kill). EVERY BATCH of the vaccine must pass the test before being released. If it didn't pass, it got two retests(due to sometimes tester error) and if it did not pass, it was destroyed. (this is the abridged version of what we did, as the test was much more specific as to how many mice were vaccinated and percents that must survive, etc.) Human vaccines are created and tested in the same way animal ones are, just using specific strains to humans. This said Thimerosal is not a very nice substance, and I would not take a vaccine with it personally.

I will also not say that vaccines are ALL good. I personally believe that when it comes to any medicine or vaccine, we should be more cautious about what we put in our bodies. We do not need an antibiotic EVERY time we get sick. I do not get the Flu vaccine, because I do not remember the last time I got the flu, and also I am not a risk factor for complications to the virus. I do not advocate getting vaccinated for something unless it is a risky disease for the indiviual person(like influenza with the elderly and young, or those with asthma, etc), or it is highly contagious and prominent in your region. I am not big on the Chickenpox vaccine, unless a person is at a higher risk of fatality or complications. But because I tested with live Rabies virus, I was vaccinated for it, yes. I do believe that natural immunity is best when someone is generally healthy and not prone to disease complications. There are two types of vaccine typically used. Modified Live Virus, and Killed virus. Killed is basically that the virus was grown in a cell stock and then inactivated or killed, and MLV is when a virus that is typically harmless to humans has a genetic portion of the "virus desired" spliced into the harmless one. These introduce the virus DNA into your body to produce an immune reaction by your body, without actually infecting you. So those who say they "got flu" from the flu vaccine, did not get the virus from the vaccine, they got the same symptoms that your body will produce when you are infected by the virus to fight it. But it will not invade your cells and replicate in your body(which is how viruses work). The symptoms you get, fever, aches, etc, are symptoms of your body producing an immune response.

In relation to autism, I believe that there are BOTH genetic and environmental factors to Autism. I believe that certain people have a genetic predisposition to Autism, or to a vulnerability to getting it, but then certain environmental things make it come about(and nothing has been proven as a cause for every case of autism with 100% certainty... Sorry people, but that is a FACT). I have seen twin studies where both identical twins were vaccinated with the MMR and one became autistic, and studies where both twins WERE NOT vaccinated with MMR, and one got it. Also Autism is very hard to diagnose. It is not like you can go to your doctor and get blood drawn for a titer. It is a series of tests done by Psychologists and specialists using DSM-IV guidelines. Many children diagnosed at 2, 3, 4, have been autistic their entire lives but symptoms were not noticed until developmental delays, especially speech were seen at 1 yr, 18 mos, etc... There are also disorders that are confused with autism such as Rett Syndrome and Fragile X.

This said, this Wakefield guy, having been PROVEN to be a fraud, has only SMEARED the name of people who are trying to TRULY find the reasons for autism. But I also say, there really is no need to get your child vaccinated for ALL THREE at once. You do have the option of vaccinating your child for all three diseases a few months apart, but docs push the MMR because insurance co's do not want to pay for three visits. You can also ask for Thimerosal-free vaccines (Thim is a mercury based preservative) And I INSIST that whatever your decision is, be sure that your doctor is following your orders. do not accept a doctor that will only give certain vaccines and forces them upon you as it is your decision.

PARENTS OF CHILDREN WITH AUTISM: DO NOT blame yourselves. DO NOT feel bad because you think you did something wrong or missed something. You know you love your child if you feel the least bit guilty, even though there is nothing you could have done to change this. Just start from TODAY. Do what you can from today forward. Please get your child all the help they can, and just love them. Know they literally cannot do some of the things most children can do, like sharing toys and hugging (some Austistic children can, but don't feel bad if if your child doesn't). Make sure they are in a school that knows how to help them, and is educated about autsim, as this will help your child grow. And also, watch the HBO movie Temple Grandin. It is SO inspiring!!!

Let's see bravegirl, should we believe you or the men and women who have spent decades studying immunology. When you spend 10 or 20 years studying diseases and vaccinations then maybe your opinion will actually MEAN something.

bravesgirl31: I can't thank you enough for your post. Everything is exactly what I've been trying to get through to people who are just too narrow minded to see another side of things. Honestly it took me a while to see the side of autism that may be caused from other stuff than JUST genes. I've learned the environment can play a part in autism. I used to be one of those people that said autism can't be caused by a vaccine and mothers are just overprotective and too worrisome. That was until I saw autism develop in what used to be a normal boy who loved sports and hanging out with his friends. My brother turned into a child who secluded himself because he didn't know how to communicate with people anymore, he stopped making eye contact, his daily duties such as brushing his teeth became a struggle. Autism has been a very difficult thing to deal with in my family, but we've all learned a lot, including patience. We have finally found a treatment that works for my brother and I can see him breaking away from the "autistic" label. There is nothing more rewarding than seeing him finally be able to be a kid again.

I can't say it enough, to those parents who think a vaccine could have caused your child's autism or those parents who think it couldn't have been a vaccine and it was just genetics, whatever you choose to believe is fine. But, no matter what you believe never give up on your children. There are treatments and therapies that work, it may take a while, but one that works for your child is out there. Don't let anyone stop you from helping your child. You should never be criticized for doing anything in your power to help your child, no matter what these narrow minded people tell you.

Let's see "differnet" if you want to talk immunology, there are many autistic kids who benefit greatly from biomedical treatment, which focuses on fixing the immune system with natural supplements. I've seen great things happen with this treatment. It's amazing what clearing up nasty stuff in the body can do for the minds of these children. And if you don't want to sound ignorant in future conversations, you could happen to research or read the books of the many doctors who have been working on biomedical. Dr. Bernie Rimland is considered the founder of biomedical treatment. As the father of an autistic child, he thought there was something that could be done to ease his son's symptoms. He started this research in 1967. It's 2011, I'll do the math for you, that's 44 years of studying ways to ease an autistic childs symptoms using immunology. This concept of finding alternate ways to define and treat autism is nothing new, it's just new to you because you read one article which happened to be published today.

Don't believe one article, because for this ONE article there are ONE MILLION parents who can tell you there is a link.

Really? "ONE MILLION"? I'd like to see from where you pulled that number.

Also, just because you only read this singular article on MSNBC doesn't mean it's the only article about this. I found dozens of other articles showing a lack of a link between autism and vaccines, including many academic publications, within 15 seconds of searching on Google and Google Scholar for the phrase "vaccine link with autism".

Is this article true? Here is the real question. How many scientists are paid by the phar./vaccine companies each year to do their research? Here is another big question. How many of those studies are shelved by the phar/vaccine companies because they don't fall in their beneficial range of agreement?

Until they do a control verse a non-control/ vaccinated and unvaccinated comparison vs the autism amounts we can't be positive, if the vaccines cause autism. Or maybe someone already did it and the phar./vaccine companies shelved the study.

I know what causes autism, but it is impossible to cure without thinking bigger than ....

First, you clearly have no idea how science funding works. Unless your work is classified or falls under the category of an industry secret, your funding source doesn't have much power to stop you from publishing your results to the scientific community. As a scientist, it really irritates me when people like you try to get people to believe that scientists only publish what is good for their funding source. If we *really* only cared about money on that level, then we wouldn't be in school and really crappy research jobs until we're 40.

The amount of children diagnosed with autism DOUBLED from 2003 to 2009. Over a span of six years, that's a pretty scary number. It doesn't take a scientist to realize there is more to this than genetics and it doesn't take a scientist to understand what families of autistic children face on a daily basis. You can throw the fact that you're a scientist all you want around, that doesn't mean you know jack about autism.

and for the record, google is NOT a reputable source.

bizbub1959, Janine, and other global climate change deniers:

You attempt to promote a parallel between this bogus connection between the vaccine/autism controversy and the human-caused global warming debate when, in fact, there is no similarity at all. The autism study was done primarily by a single physician and failed its peer review. The discrediting of the connection between the vaccines and autism happened several years ago and it is only the tenacity of non-scientists like Ms. McCarthy who have kept this myth alive .... to the detriment of millions of children at risk from serious diseases because their parents have been duped.

Conversely, human-caused global climate change has withstood peer review and virtually all climate scientists believe that the changes in the composition of the atmosphere due to the actions of human beings have caused and will continue to cause dramatic changes in global climate conditions. Virtually all of the opposition to the global climate change theory comes from individuals and groups that are either uneducated in the atmospheric sciences and from the energy industry (which, after all, has good economic reasons for its oposition) The statement on the subject by the American Meteorological Society is included for your reading pleasure

http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2007climatechange.html

In both of these cases, scientists are correct. In both cases, people with no expertise in the field have promoted false ideas. The false vaccine/autism connection was promoted by the uneducated Ms. McCarthy. The false information about human-caused global warming is promoted by conservative, uneducated talking heads like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity ..... all acting as shills for the fossil fuel energy industry.

Differnet... I do not know how you go spouting about me not knowing immunology. Nowhere in my comment did I state anything about how long or short I have worked in research, so you spouted off at the mouth without any information.

In terms of vaccines working. They do, and that is NOT OPINION. That is OBSERVABLE FACT that I saw with my very own eyes. In ther numerous tests I performed, and by saying that I mean numerous DIFFERENT tests, and numerous repititions of those tests, I saw the vaccines provide protection against disease. And I did it using 9CFR testing and procedures that are required by not just an immunologist, but the GOVERNMENT before releasing a vaccine out.

I never sat steadfastly on one side of the vaccine debate, except that they do work in effectiveness. In my opinion, every vaccine is not necessary for every human. And I did state that as my opinion previously, and as a "know it all" you can recognize that the constitution gives me the ability to state my opinion. I will not state my opinion as fact, nor will I state fact as my opinion. If you disagree with my statement of vaccines working, well then show me, not just some article, but your personal expereince including data and that you saw it with your Own eyes. Because I did. I really do not want to spell out all the details of the tests i performed, but I will if necessary. If you find fault with my opinion that not all people need every vaccine, then I ask you, do you believe we should vaccinate an AIDS patient with vaccines like tetanus, chickenpox, et al? Because people with supressed immune systems would have bad reactions and possibly death, to certain unnecessary vaccines.

Since you are so smart, and think me so dumb, why don't you specifically tell me where I was so wrong? And prove it.

I repeat, the problem with Autism is that we have not found a consistent cause for it in 100% of cases. That is fact as well. But these children are amazing wonderful children that can be treated to a point where they can have productive lives (as long as their autism is not compounded by an additional disorder).

I can understand why a parent with a child that has been diagnosed with autism would want to try to find out why this happened to them, and who's to blame. That's part of our human nature. Unfortunately the research of actual scientists doesn't back up this vaccination theory that so many people have been clinging to for years now. There have been some studies that actually have found a factor that increases a child's risk for developing autism. There have been several studies that have established a probable link between older parents(especially the mother), and an increased chance of having an autistic child. This would place blame on parents waiting too long to start having kids, rather than vaccines, and the evil pharmaceutical companies. This of course wouldn't be the cause for all cases of autism, but it would explain why there has been such a rise in the number of cases of autism. We all know that more women are starting their families later. Before these women were warned of the increased chances of having a child with downs syndrome, but now autism seems to be an issue to consider as well.

I agree with you science first.

Look at it this way people. Children are getting more shots these days. So that means that if someone develops autism, it is even more likely that it would be shortly after they have had a shot. Look at the tens of millions of children that are getting shots every year. That means that if you claimed that the shot caused autism, and that the changes started in the month or two after the shot, well that is 16% of the a year, if they only get the shot once a year, get shots twice a year, and you are up to 32% of the year falls within 2 months after the shots. So if any child develops autism, it will fall within 2 months of having the shots 32% of the time. Does that mean that the shots caused the autism? No that just means that the shots are more often, so the likelyhood of autism starting close to the shots is greater.

More children are flying in airplanes also. I bet if you looked at when kid started developing autism, you could find hundreds if not thousands of cases where the child developed autism within 2 months of flying. Does that mean that the autism was caused by flying?

The only way to get an accurate answer is to look at the studies. Count the diagnosed children with autism. Count how many had shots, how many did not. Then compare those numbers to the total number of children that had shots and those that did not. From the studies that were posted on another part of this thread, there is no difference. If the rate of autism for those with shots is 1:100,000, it is also the same for those that did not have the shots. Pretty clear evidence that the shots did not cause the autism, if it did, then the rate of Autism would be much higher for those that had shots vs those that did not have shots.

You can get all sorts of anecdotal "evidence" that the shots caused it. People say that their child was find and then after the shots started to develop autism. Who is to say that they would not have developed it even without the shots?

You just have to go with the mainstream, peer reviewed studies that show that the rate of autism for those with shots is the same as those without shots.

I have had the opportunity to be exposed to a wide range of claims and 'research' in regard to the link between autism and vaccinations, as well as child patients of mine, many of which their parents claim they were "vaccine-damaged."

Some of the research/claims I read, not only about autism links with MMR, but also Polio, as well as others, made my skin 'crawl' and my stomach ache, and simply put, made me quite angry at the time. This is a topic that to this day I am conflicted about, especially now being a Mom and faced with the decisions that nearly every parent is faced with.

As a Chiropractor I've worked on people with all types of 'conditions', ASD including Aspergers and ranging to the extreme high-pitched vocalizing (but w/o words that made sense) toe-walking hyperactive type of ASD (more often boys), and including the hypotonic nervous system tone (usually girls) requiring assistance with a walker even at ages 8 or 9. Whether these children's conditions were actually caused, contributed by, or simply blamed on the vaccines is honestly a mystery to me. However, I've spoken to some pretty convinced parents, and that is worth something in my book.

Gary Root posted some great comments, which I appreciated. I believe and have seen a whole spectrum of ASD, both as a chiropractor, and also earlier on when I assisted with people with 'special needs'. I have also unfortunately become quite familiar with SDD and 'Sociopaths' through my ex, and I would agree that the havoc they wreak on others' lives (as well as their own) are in no way comparable to someone with ASD (generally speaking of course - dangerous blanket statement).

Before having my son, having the experiences of (many) parents with "Vaccine-damaged children" come to me to help re-build or re-organize the neural network pathways and communication systems of their nervous systems, and in combination with information I was exposed to while in chiropractic school especially, I didn't think I would ever vaccinate my child. I preferred to take the risk in having his/her nervous system and immune system as healthy as possible, should he/she develop an illness/disease. Most of the diseases we vaccinate against are ones that an otherwise healthy and strong individual can recover from. Of course there are exceptions, and particularly for those who are immuno-compromised.

And then there's polio, which has been gone for how many years? Yet, one of my former patients, as well as (another) former instructor, had post-polio syndrome. My patient's ankle/leg was noticeably shorted/twisted as a result of the polio. Not a fun disease. Yet, a wonderful person who lived with it, was kind, had a family etc.

To be blatantly honest, I am not on either end of the spectrum of pro-vaccine vs. autism/other-unknown-ill-effects reservations w/vaccination. I have serious professional as well as personal reservations about immunizing in general, both related to scientific study, research (or lack thereof to prove safety other than through seeming mass-experimentation with the public at large), as well as personal/spiritual thoughts (did God really create us so imperfect that we need to inject foreign substances into our bodies?) I'm sure some of you are rolling your eyes now, but on the other hand perhaps others are not.

Ultimately, and I admitantly here don't feel great about my decision, but I have gradually, slowly chosen to immunize my son - one vaccine at a time, never combining (other than the ones that are combined like MMR). And I'm not doing every one, but nevertheless, most of them. If my ex-partner (son's father) and I had decided together not to vaccinate, I probably would have agreed...but he was adamantly opposed. Then there was my Mom and her concerns, the not wanting to jump through all the public school vaccination rules hoops, etc.

I admit, I never like giving him an immunization. He's had at least one small physical 'reaction' than I witnessed - a strange hard nodule/bump at the site that stayed for more than a week. I can also say, he nearly always seems behaviorally 'off,' short, or cranky/irritable for about a week following a vaccination.

Truthfully, I think many of the children who have severe reactions following a vaccine must have something metabolically or otherwise medically which predisposes them to be more sensitive (and thus more easily harmed), and/or they were in some way immunocompromised at the time of the vaccine. However, why we should be knowingly injecting anything akin to disease/poison into our bodies also seems counter-intuitive. I know it's all said to be for the potential to reduce/eliminate the reaction from the live/real exposure to the disease... It's just the process seems unnatural to me.

I also sometimes recall my own traumatic experience with vaccinations, and the time I limped for about a week from pain in the site where I was vaccinated, and the fact that I quite often got 'sick' (i.e. colds etc.) growing up. As soon as I moved out, and was no longer getting vaccinated, I rarely if ever got sick. This is true to this day - even having gone through a particularly stressful year. The one time I got sick several times (including a severe UTI which transformed into a kidney infection), was the 4-5 months following "mandatory" vaccination(s) to prepare me to live in the UK for a year. Coincidence?

Given that 9 men have autism for every female with autism, it's clearly linked with sex. If we stopped thinking of autism as a disease with a cause and a cure and instead accepted alternative theories of autism as merely a product of male brain variability, it would be easier to understand.

The rise in autism is likely due to increased diagnosis, but a primary factor is most likely brain evolution by the concentration of traits by occupation. This is speculation on my part, but it is clear that self-selection of mates through dating several dozen people is a mate selection method that is very different than anything humans have ever known before.

Vaccines vs autism. This is all you need to know. Thermisol use peaked in the 70's and has largely fallen to the wayside as a preservative. The spike in autism rates began in the 90s. There is no way the 'cause' could have pre-dated the 'effect' by 20 years.

Father of a 6 year old girl with autism here, but at least I understand basic statistics.

(btw, autism rates for children of engineers is double that of the general public. Autism rates for children of older fathers at time of birth is higher than for younger fathers. I was a hair from being a chemical engineer (cancer during my college years prevented me from finishing a chem-e.) and I was 38 when my daughter was born. ) So yeah, I have an idea what caused my daughter's autism.

What many parents observe is that they get their child vaccinated and then -- bam -- autistic symptoms appear. In some cases, a child even loses the ability to speak. After reading about a study like the one Wakefield did, it's easy to see how a parent becomes absolutely convinced that the vaccine caused the autism. They feel that it just CAN'T be a coincidence that their child's autistic symptoms appeared within a couple of weeks of the vaccine.

What most people don't realize, however, is that it *CAN* be a coincidence. Consider that approximately 1 out of every 100 children these days has some form of autism. Now consider the number of children in the US (many millions). Next, think about the fact that the autistic symptoms had to show up at some point within a 2 or 3 year period for every single one of those autistic children. Over a 3 year period, you've got about 150 weeks. If, therefore, there are 500,000 autistic children in the US right now (probably a conservative estimate), that's 500,000 divided by 150 weeks = over 6,000 children in the US right now that would be expected to start showing autistic symptoms within two weeks of a vaccine by random chance alone.

Ohh....in my above post, I was too conservative in another respect -- that number of 6000 children showing autistic symptoms within two weeks of a vaccine by random chance alone assumes that the child only got one vaccine. If the child gets 3, that number jumps up to 18,000 children in the US that start showing autistic traits within two weeks of a vaccine by chance alone.

You have to also consider that many parents (because of the bad press that vaccines have received) start LOOKING for autistic traits after a vaccine and ....sure enough... many see them. They may not realize, however, that the autistic traits were already there but were not noticed until after the vaccine.

As I began to read some of the posts, I noticed that some people had their posts collapsed by the community. The funny part was that those that had their comments collapsed were people who are in disagreement with the article. This is one of the reasons that we will never truly know what causes autism. If a comment is not in line with the government and their major contributors, Big Pharma, ignore the comments. Instead of ignoring these comments, listen and include them in studies. Our experiences as parents should be a part of any and all studies. People should hear first hand what a parent saw and lived through with their autistic child. Good healthy debate is needed and we will never see that for I hve noticed that if one does not follow the majority, they are called names and dismissed.

Since there are so many learned people here, I would like for one or more of you to please tell me what happened and how it happened to my son.

As a toddler, my son was talkative, outgoing, happy and more than willing to hug me, cuddle with me at bedtime and hold my hand. In fact, the only way he would go to sleep at night was if I cuddled with him. After getting booster shots in order to attend head start, my son was lethargic and did not want me to touch him. At first, I attributed this to the shots as I figured he did not feel well since that is a listed side effect. Then he started doing some weird things like tearing strips of paper, running around watching the paper fly behind him. He fought me about putting clothes on. I was not allowed to brush his hair, hold his hand while walking or cuddle with him at night. I could not give him a hug without him having an outburst. He was 4 years old at this time. When I told the doctors about this, they said it was the A.D.H.D. but I knew it my gut that it was something else. I had not even thought of autism on any level. The evening prior to his booster shots is the last time I was able to cuddle with my son, hold his hand, brush his hair or hug him. At age 5 , his kindergarten teacher told me that he would sit just outside of reading circle (didn't want to be too close to people) hitting his head with his hands. Again, I questioned doctors and again I was told A.D.H.D. At age 8, his dad called him a turkey. My son replied that he was a little boy and therefore could not be a turkey. At age 12, I told him to put an egg in his shoe and beat it. He took an egg from the frige and put it in his shoe. I stopped him from beating the egg and explained to him that it was just a saying. This time, when I took it to the doctor, he set up an appointment with a pediatric neurologist. At age 12 1/2, my son was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. I do believe that vaccines play a part in autism. I do believe in getting a child vaccinated but not at the current day schedule and not in multiple doses at one time. There is no reason for a newborn to have a hepatitis b shot unless the hospital and doctor's office plans on using dirty needles.

Now, a few months ago, it was revealed that a lot of studies on new drugs (now on the market and causing people some big problems), were falsified. The author gave the Big Pharma the results it needed in order to get F.D.A. approval. That story has seemed to disappear.

Come on people!! Big pharma is in business to make money. More money that you or I could ever dream of having. The F.D.A. and N.I.H. have people on staff that have ties to big pharma and our wonderful elected officials get large contributions from big pharma. Put the puzzle together and look at the big picture. If this is not reason enough to question and debate then we all might as well throw our children away. Me? I plan on fighting for my child until I take my last breath. By the way, my son is now 22 and I have convinced him to return to college after a major meltdown in 2007 and a prolonged battle with severe anxiety. However, he attends online and does not go to a campus.

For all of you that want to be sheep being led to the slaughter, please feel free to believe that the F.D.A. , N.I.H. , federal government , all receiving kickbacks in some form from Big Pharma, would never do anything to harm you or your children. I will continue to fight for you as well as for all children.

Denise, I think that some comments are being collapsed by the community because they are simply not helpful. When it comes to determining the cause of autism, anecdotes are completely uselss because there is no way to determine what caused the autism in a particular, individual child. All we can really do is look at a large number of children with the understanding that, if vaccines caused autism, this would show up in a sufficiently large sample. Dozens of studies have done this and have found no relationship between vaccines and autism. Even studies with sample sizes in the hundreds of thousands (!) have found no relationship.

I simply do not believe that hundreds of scientists (most of whom are funded by NIH grants, NOT Big Pharma), the FDA, NIH, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association, etc, etc, etc, are **ALL** part of some huge conspiracy to permit thousands of children to be harmed -- in exchange for kickbacks from Big Pharma. I'm a research scientist myself and I assure you that I have never received a single penny from Big Pharma.

I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties your son faces. I know them well because I also have a son with autism. I would respectfully submit, however, that you are simply looking at a coincidence of timing (see my posts above). There are numerous other plausible explanations. To mention two:

1. As the brain develops, numerous genes are expressed at different times. In some cases, perhaps, a "defective" gene wreaks havoc on the developing brain -- but only after it begins to be expressed. The result may well be a sudden loss of skills like you describe.

2. Some other environmental agent. Our children are exposed to countless natural and synthetic chemicals all the time, very few of which have been adequately tested for safety. When a child hits 18 months, his or her mobility increases dramatically. This opens the door for exposure to a vast array of substances that the child previously had no access to. In some cases, autism might be caused by exposure to some chemical and we just haven't identified it yet. If this is the case, we will only discover it by doing careful science. Endlessly insisting that vaccines are the cause may well divert precious research time and funds away from such a search.

I have a problem with business giving immunizations at the behest of government. I have a problem with bankers "advising" the government. I am a cynic and I believe that evil finds a way.

From what ive read about Autism and its varying spectrums, i've always leaned towards diet - which includes the diet of the mother while she's pregnant.

I think part of the reason I lean this way, is beacuse my partner has Multiple Sclerosis - which is a neurological disorder, and what we've found to be the most effective treatment is diet and stress reduction.

I think our eating habits, coupled with our skyrocketing obesity rates over the past few decades, corresponding in a rise in neurological disorders...it just seems like the most logical connection.

And that includes the chemicals sprayed on crops and hormones injected in our foods, especially meat.

Obviously my experiences are not that vast with autism...but I do know of a family in which the mother has MS and the son has Autism...and ive seen their diet, rich in sugars...processed foods.

I have a friend who ate horribly all through pregnancy and all her kid consumes is sugar and processed foods, and he's about as spastic and add as it gets. It's not "lots of energy"...I have nephews with lots of energy, you can completely tell the difference between a kid who cant focus, and a kid who just wants to do something for fun...

MGinRochester "anecdotes are completely uselss because there is no way to determine what caused the autism in a particular, individual child. All we can really do is look at a large number of children with the understanding that, if vaccines caused autism, this would show up in a sufficiently large sample."

I disagree in this way, I think sometimes the only way to find a real connection is by listening to people explain their entire situation - whatever point you may believe irrelevant, might actually end up being the missing link.

And it's ignorant to believe if vaccines were the culprit, that of course it would have to show up in far more children. Isnt that sort of like saying, if Smoking REALLY caused lung cancer, far more smokers would die of lung cancer? In fact, its quite odd to really think about how some people who smoke a pack a day for 20 years can get lung cancer, while someone else who smokes 3 packs a day for 50 years, doesnt. Yet, WE KNOW that smoking causes cancer...we just dont know 100% yet why some people wont get it.

Genetically we are so different, and mutations in our genes constantly occur...and often times, those mutations are spurred by environmental factors. It's very plausible that Autism and its variety of disorders, is caused by multiple factors - and vaccines might just be a small part of that. It would stand to reason why it would be difficult to duplicate quality results if say 5% of people who get autism got it via vaccines, thats not a quality number...and statistically that will read as not valid enough to give it full blame.

We know that a human being can get a variety of different cancers, yet they are all still CANCER...and we know that a variety of different things can lead to different cancers...

Why is it illogical to conclude the same possibility for Autism?

I can only hope there are good scientists who arent willing to rule anything out, including vaccines...so that someday we can isolate the genetics that are predisposed for vaccines, and save a few kids and familes from this hardship. Otherwise, if it we just offhandly dismiss it...we'll never help those folks, because we wont have bothered looking in that area anymore.

Autism, like ADD, has become a dumping ground for children with emotional problems. So, in part, using those diagnosis as a means to categorize the children in and of itself has caused a "surge" in numbers. It surprises me the number of people willing to religiously point to one, (now debunked) study as proof of their assertions. There are so many other possible reasons, it boggles the mind. First, we are now "saving" many babies that in the last century would have died as infants, and now these children are having children as well. We are removing natural selection (survival of the fittest) from the picture. Don't you think that would be a possible cause for increases in cases like Autism and ADD. We are damaging the health of our genetic pool by trying to save all the babies. Second, our diet has changed much in the last century as well. Diet has much to do with both disorders. I could go on, but, you get the idea...

The vast majority of American have had vaccinations with no ill effects. Whether of not vaccines sicken a very, very small minority remains to be seen. Foremost, REAL testing needs to take place. Infants would need to be closely studied by PROFESSIONALS both BEFORE and AFTER receiving vaccinations. Yes, professionals, those who can be OBJECTIVE in the observations. Those who are not out looking for someone to blame, (and subsequently sue!)

@Gary and ColleenE - my 14 year old son was diagnosed with Aspergers about 4 years ago, and he recently saw a t-shirt, which had his now favorite saying on it " You laugh because I am different, I laugh because you are all the same"

Vive la difference!

Jessica-1170252 wrote: "And it's ignorant to believe if vaccines were the culprit, that of course it would have to show up in far more children. Isnt that sort of like saying, if Smoking REALLY caused lung cancer, far more smokers would die of lung cancer? In fact, its quite odd to really think about how some people who smoke a pack a day for 20 years can get lung cancer, while someone else who smokes 3 packs a day for 50 years, doesnt. Yet, WE KNOW that smoking causes cancer"

Actually, this supports my point not yours. Let's look at your smoking example: you mention the guy that smokes three packs a day for 50 years and doesn't get lung cancer. Yet, there are people that don't smoke that still get lung cancer. What does this mean? It means that you cannot simply look at one or two individuals to determine whether or not smoking causes cancer.

Why? Because when we say that smoking causes lung cancer what we really mean (of course) is that you are more likely to get lung cancer if you smoke. It's a matter of probability. That's why anecdotes are useless for answering this question.

We know that smoking causes cancer because, when we compare large groups of smokers to large groups of nonsmokers we see that the smokers get lung cancer far more often.

Now let's consider autism again: we all know that some children that don't get vaccines will have autism and some won't. We all know that some children that DO get vaccines will have autism and some won't. The only way to figure out if vaccines cause autism is look at a very large group of children that received vaccines and see if autism is more common in that group than it is in another large group of children that DIDN'T get vaccines. This kind of study has been done dozens of times and the results are consistent -- children that get vaccinated have the same rates of autism as those that don't get vaccinated. End of story.

Jessica...

Anecdotes might inspire or shape a hypothesis for a study, but they can not be used to shape a conclusion once a properly designed experiment has been conducted. And even then a a properly designed experiment may fail to consider some other element and inspire yet more studies that may find different results.

Good science is a process.

Science First's post above has the concept right when it comes to anecdotes.

Hey Bravesgirl,

Just curious, how do you tell whether a rat is autistic or not? I mean, testing on rats is all well and good, but how many genes do rats and humans even have in common (besides the obvious anomoly in Bernie Madoff)?

There's a reason that they call what doctors do a practice, because they're usually just applying an educated guess to everything they do. Until the human genome is fully explored and mapped (1000 years from now?) we're never going to really fully understand the full effects of ingesting or injecting ANYTHING. Just a few decades ago there were several things on the list of KNOWN carcinogenic agents that it appears that now may not really be so horrible. That's because it's probably a good bet that if you run any substance through a rat at the rate of 100 or 1000 times its body weight then bad things are bound to happen to that rat. You tend to throw all kinds of systems out of whack in any organism that you overload with any one thing. That's the false logic that is applied to any number of studies. No one takes in to account that in order for a human to be at the specified risk of whatever the study indicated for ingestion of a substance, they would have to ingest on the order of 100 or more times their body weight in that substance for the control numbers to be considered accurate. I don't know about you, but I don't think I'll be ingesting 20,000 to 200,000 pounds of anything anytime soon. Ok, maybe twinkies, cause they're delicious. :-D

What is up with all of you people saying that kids were hurt because they thought they had gotten autism from vaccines? For those parents who take a stand for their childs autism the way to alleviate symptoms is biomedical research. Seriously, there is like 2 percent of kids that this doesn't work for at all. Most other kids show signs of improvement, some small, some large. Tell me now, how is that-all natural supplements, nothing at all harmful- is detrimental to kids?

This belief doesn't mean that thousands of children were wrongly hurt. It means that it is one cause that people believe caused their child to have autism. They aren't having any treatment that hurts them. They aren't becoming worse because their parent believes it's due to a vaccine. Children can still have the same therapies or treatments for having this belief. It doesn't matter which side of the story you believe, autism is autism, and it doesn't change when parents think there are different causes for it.

I'm not saying people should stop vaccinating their children, but the junk in those vaccines should not be injected into anyone. Choosing the lesser of two evils is stupid. Find another way to protect everyone from these diseases instead of injecting poison.

As a baby growing up I was a screamer.

Then when I was around the age of 5 I had a seziure lasting 1 hour 45mins. The next following five years went through three different medicenes. Even during that time period, one thing my parents did not understand was oversensetivity to things like change. Every year starting school I would have an emotional breakdown.

It wasn't until I was 10 and off the epileptic medications ( brainwave results from sleep-deprived EEG's were finally where they should be), that I was taken out of school once or twice a week to go to a different city and hospital and put through a series of tests (mental, cognitive, emotional,memory, Oral etc..) for a year.

What was found was underdevelopment of some areas and what not. However the Emotional Sensetivity was due to a condition called Generalized Anxiety Disorder or GAD. The easiest way of explaining what GAD does is that it makes transitions harder to adjust to changes and accept that without worrying overexcessively about little things to irrelevant things. When left untreated it can inhibit a persons ability to function in a social setting and impair a persons ability to work. ( I am still on medication to help lessen my anxiety, and I am learning how to manage what anxiety I still have to this day.)

As well as being diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, due to the underdevelopement with physical gestures while talking (i.e. eye contact) and the obession of talking about limited subject matter or whatever you call it. As a result of this during my years in middle school I had help to recognize these things and worked with a psychologist on things like eye contact. It took about 5 years to be able to look up at my mom while talking and at least feel somewhat comfortable. I was also put one medication to help somewhat.

With such an improvement I found that speaking to other people was not a challenge. Even during High school my Speechs for my Junior and Senior AP English Classes were very well done academically, than say the writing parts of assignments.

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On Wakefield:

What an embarassment to the medical community. I find it rather disgraceful that a person would manipulate their own study's results. Darn right! he should get his ability to practice taken away. He's a bad seed of the scientific method.

McCarthy: If a person is sick and they eat a cookie and are instantly all better, I wouldn't say they are "cured". It's just a temporary fix.

Same goes with Autism Spectrum Disorder, while you're child might "out-grow it" that doesn't mean they are "cured".

Stop scaring people, it doesn't benefit anyone or anything except that pocket in one's wallet. Geesh, get some real sciencetific studies done not spook-a-thons

Denise-992717 -

You mentioned that you son was "normal" until he got booster shots to attend Head Start. Children have to "qualify" for Head Start which includes income requirements, but also usually developmental delays in the child. Can you clarify why your son was going to attend Head Start if he was completely "within range" for his age at the time?

There's a reason that they call what doctors do a practice, because they're usually just applying an educated guess to everything they do.

I agree with Denise. I read the collapsed posts and noted the same interesting pattern. She is correct. One post was from the mother of a child with autism who noticed a reaction after their child was given a vaccine. Why do we discount actual eyewitness testimony? Is this not as good as the author of this article?

Whether or not vaccines are related to autism has not been proved or disproved, but while our government is so busy throwing money in the toilet on other studies like bovine flatulence, why are they not funding a credible group to look into something as important as this? I understand why pharma doesn't fund the study, there's no money in it. But why are the top minds in the country not burning the midnight oil if there is the smallest possibility that we are doing irreparable damage to children? Why is there any debate on this at all?

And while we're on the subject, what exactly is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? And why have they paid out two billion dollars to people who have been injured by vaccines? Furthermore, why have drug companies been given immunity from being sued by our government? If their products are so great and so safe, why would they need immunity? Two billion dollars? These injuries include GBS, which I have seen with my own eyes, and it was caused by the flu vaccine last year. No wonder there are so many conspiracy theories floating around. It doesn't take a genius to see that something stinks here, and that somebody is not being truthful.

How long will it take for my post to be collapsed by this community?

My daughter is going to be getting her first vaccinations & I have been a bit nervous having that in the back of my head. I do feel much better about it now.

Temporary fix? With the medical intervention Jenny McCarthy supports, children have actually been taken off the spectrum. It's a mix of natural supplements, detox, therapy, and diet changes. If these things are kept up, a child can be relieved of many symptoms. It's a change in lifestyle that's for sure. But I've witnessed the miracle that can happen with the treatment Jenny supports. It may not work for everyone, and you may not believe it. But, for someone who has seen great things happen, I would suggest that you find out more about what Jenny suggests before you knock on anyone.

@ Fiona - please cite the source for your statement,

One in 3 children is affected by vaccinations.

"bklynj

But then the real question is-Why the sudden spike in autism? This is what needs to be answered."

---------------

It has been answered many times.

1) Better diagnosis = more cases able to be found

2) The ever changing and broadening definition of autism = more cases previously called by other names now lumped in under the name 'autism'

3) More awareness of autism = more children being brought in for diagnosis = more cases able to be found

I'm having severe problems with people claiming the insanely high autism rates as compared with years past when the issues above are clearly impacting the statistics.

I'd like to see a real statistical analysis done that uses the exact same definitions of childhood developmental disabilities used say 10 years ago so that we can compare today's rates with what was happening then. We woudl get an apples to apples comparison instead of this jumble of garbage that we have today.

Is it possible that there is just a rise in the diagnosis, not necessarily a rise in the disease? There was some talk about this on NPR, and I have to wonder myself. I'm not talking about severe Autism of course, but the "mild" cases that come up so frequently these days.

Of course Autism exists and affects so many families in this world; however, so many conditions that come with a medicinal treatment seem to increase dramatically when there is a drug to "help" the symptoms. I'm thinking of ADHD and bi-polar conditions as well. Is it possible that some kids are just out of control because they are, well, kids and don't feel like going to school (there are more kids with learning "disabilities" in classrooms than without)?

I believe every parent should exercise caution whenever it comes to their child(ren)'s health, but opting out of all vaccines seems a bit neglegent. I'm not a huge advocate of the flu shot because well, it's often the wrong strain and I like to give my natural immunity a chance, but diseases like polio and whooping cough should not be a modern concern.

When real evidence proves otherwise, than concerned parents can have great ammo for staying away from these vaccines, but until then, why risk some of the worst diseases history has ever known?

Ben, I think you have an actual understanding for what needs to happen. You know for something that really does have quite a controversy, why isn't it looked into more? Why aren't more studies funded (and done correctly, unlike the one in this article) for something that's honestly quite important.

To me, I don't get why, like you said, drug companies have immunity. I don't think it's logical to say we're doing nothing wrong, but we won't prove that to you. Hopefully this topic can gain more respect and be studied further.

What people are NOT understanding is that children are BORN with Autism. You cannot 'get' Autsim. There are two different types of Autism: Regessive and Classical. Regessive Autism is where you will see children developing typically but around 18 months the signs of Autism become apparent, however to a trained eye, there will be signs before that as well. The world needs the REAL information and crack-pot doctors like Wakefield should run from this field before they hurt more children. Way to go Jenny McCarthy, you IDIOT. And Wakefield...way to cause an epidemic of Measles in the UK. That's an accomplishment.

WeRdoomed--Head start is not for children with developmental problems. Its for low income families that can't afford preschool.

For people that say they took mercury out of the vaccines that was only in 2000 and it's still in all flu vaccines, that our doctors push on us incessantly. In other child vaccines there is Aluminum and formaldehyde. The possible reason Autism has gotten so out of control could be because in the 70's kids were given I think about 8 shots, since the 90's kids are getting 20 by the age on 2. All stuffed full of Nerotoxins. Lets have a non-government, non-pharmaceutical funded study and see what happens.

Autism is NOT like catching a cold or the flu...you just don't get it that way. Autism starts in the brain during development in the womb. It is a developmental disorder that children have and is usually not recognizable until the age of 2 when language and social skills begin to develop. Your child will develop all of the gross motor skills, talk, and even start to potty train; then one day your child starts to regress in all of these skills and become closed off to socialization. That's when you want to have your child tested. So please don't worry about your child "catching" or "getting" autism from someone or a vaccine. You were vaccinated as a child and you turned out ok...I hope. I work with children who have developmental delays and trust me none of the children "caught or got" these delays from a vaccine.

@Ben

Good questions in your post.

1) Yes, science does disregard "eyewitness testimony." Scientists call it anecdotal evidence. The problem is that you can find anecdotal evidence to support any claim you want to make. The only use science has for anecdotal evidence is that it occasionally gives them a starting place to start looking for answers. Science works with much greater precision and accuracy than just taking people's observations or opinions about what happened.

2) The problem with vaccines is not what the people who object so much to childhood vaccines seem to think. The problem is that there is little or no money to be made making vaccines. The manufacturing process is very subject to contamination and when that happens, the vaccines are thrown away, the equipment sterilized, and the months-long process started all over again. For that reason, the government subsidizes the manufacturing process so that there will be enough supply to vaccinate all who need the vaccinations.

3) Vaccinations work by evoking a response from a person's immune system. But not everyone's immune system responds correctly. ALL vaccinations have some level of side effects because the body targets itself instead of or in addition to the virus or bacteria being vaccinated for. This is a situation where the greater good is measured against the known risk of side effects, some very serious and long-term.

4) For most vaccinations to work as they should, something over 70% of all people need to be vaccinated. This is called "herd immunity" and is what really protects us in vaccinations. For many people the vaccinations to not work completely or at all because their body does not respond "normally" to the vaccination. Herd immunity protects those people and those who did not get vaccinated by interrupting the free transmission of a given disease from person to person.

5) Because it is so risky and unprofitable to manufacture vaccines and because there are known side effects and because herd immunity is a desirable public health issue, the federal government has its own court setup with "special masters" as judges who hear all vaccination injury cases. Their rules of evidence are very low. All you have to prove is that you received the vaccination and then exhibited a known side effect some time thereafter. Since some of the side effects can include long-term disability or injury the awards can be quite large. Most awards are structured settlements with inflation adjustments built in, so the amount can be very large. But in truth, the courts buy annuities with the money, so the awards are around twice what is actually paid out by the federal government.

6) We are probably not seeing any increase in autism. What we are seeing is an increased diagnosis of Autistic Spectrum Disorder. The disease can range from symptoms that can only be detected by a trained professional to profoundly inert personalities. As time goes on, more and more kids are being diagnosed earlier and earlier because schools and physicians are being much more watchful because most ASD can be ameliorated when caught and treated early. Most of the increase is simply that we are lumping a bunch of older diagnoses into a single disorder.

7) Andrew Wakefield has already been punished in Britain. He was fined heavily for medical misconduct and had his license to practice as a physician pulled. The misconduct was not the nature of his papers, but that he failed to disclose that he was commissioned to do the study by an American lawyer and the payment was contingent on linking autism with childhood vaccines. This is fraud. It was also considered academic misconduct that 10 of the 14 authors of the paper in "Lancet" had never seen it or heard of it prior to it being published. Wakefield cannot practice medicine in Canada or the U.S. because of reciprocity agreements with Britain.

8) The supposed villain in the vaccines was Thimerasol (not elemental mercury) which was used as a preservative. It was especially important because multi-vaccines such as the flu shot and childhood vaccines because the risk of contamination rises sharply with the number of vaccines combined. Two vaccines multiply the risk by 4, 3 vaccines by 9, and 4 vaccines by 16. The amount of mercury in a childhood DPT shot would have been equivalent to that you would get by opening a blister pack containing one CFL light bulb. But Thimerasol was removed from childhood vaccines over a decade ago and there was no drop in real autism rates.

Hope that helps some.

boo TODAY'S vaccines!they are not healthy because they are too poowerful and too many of them

The amount of children diagnosed with autism DOUBLED from 2003 to 2009. Over a span of six years, that's a pretty scary number. It doesn't take a scientist to realize there is more to this than genetics and it doesn't take a scientist to understand what families of autistic children face on a daily basis. You can throw the fact that you're a scientist all you want around, that doesn't mean you know jack about autism.

I never once said I know "jack" about autism. I only said that you were throwing out numbers without citing your sources, and I claimed that you don't understand how science funding works. You completely missed the point. I stated that it's just not true that the FDA can "shelve" studies they don't like, and that, as a scientist, it is frustrating for people to claim that there's some sort of greedy conspiracy where scientists can't publish their work.

and for the record, google is NOT a reputable source.

Again, you missed the point. I never said that Google was my source. I said that you could easily find reputable peer-reviewed publications refuting a link between autism and vaccines by using Google. For you to think that I meant that I got my information from Google, and not from the journals indexed by Google, either means that you don't understand what a search engine is or that you wear a tinfoil hat and think that Google is working with the FDA to hide what you want to be true.

"1 in 3 children have been damaged from vaccinnation" Hogwash. You might have noticed if 33% of your peers were suffering from a neurological disorder. That rate is 33 TIMES the rate of autism.

Ali: Yes, I understand now. We surely must follow the medical opinion of a woman who was able to get a highly talented pizza-tossing job out of high school. She went on to prove her medical know-how by posing naked in Playboy. How could I have doubted the medical knowledge of Ms McCarthy? Can you not sense the dripping sarcasm?

You might ask why do I have so much vitriol for Jenny? Especially since her centerfold used to adorn my wall while I was in college. It's simple. With no understanding of the science, and without the math to understand the statistics, (remember, before she was a playmate she tossed pizzas for a living.) she has embarked on a one woman campaign to address what she feels is the problem. Doing so has caused countless studies to be redone over and over, which wastes money that would be better spent actually helping autism patients and developing new and better treatments. It also backlashes into a community fearful of causing such a terrible disease in their children (and what the..? is correct, you don't 'catch' autism, you are born with it) that many parents will not vaccinate. Measles is among the most contagious diseases on the planet. One child with measles exposes a 200 yard radius around them, and the virus stays in the air for up to 2 hours after the child leaves. Mumps and polio are deadly crippling diseases as well. The decision not to vaccinate will surely cause some number of children who would otherwise have been protect to contract one of these ailments. So Ms McCarthy's efforts do not just harm the autistic community by deflecting potiental research, but also harms the well community as well.

Chris - post#1.69 -- best post I have seen today -exceptional. Everybody should look at this post to be informed.

weRdoomed - for the record, my son was allowed to go to head start because our income was low. He was not delayed in any way, shape or form. The child was speaking before the age of one. His diction was quite clear and his motor skills were fine.

I agree with your comment David.

>.> Okay it's one thing to be a "normal" person with a "typical" occupation and start a "movement" ( I use that word for a lack of a better word) is much more credible than someone whose background is questionable through the likes of Playboy.

I thought the deal was to raise awareness of Autism, Jenny? How does exposing your flesh solve that problem other than gaining support through means that are not even relevant to raising the awareness of Autism. It doesn't. Being a "celebrity" can always have its drawbacks on the original good intentions, and well this is a good example.

Would it be fair to say she is the Sarah Palin of the medical world?

There are plenty of other women, I bet, who are actually working on studies into the complexity of Autism, not just commenting on and using personal experience as valid medical testimony.

While that is good for I don't know a walk-in clinic, in the big world of medicine, there has to be a lot of valid evidence supporting a school of thought to be valid. It's not "I feel so and so, which means it's true".

If anything Logos before Pathos people!

:D Have a good day.

Amanda-2875410- Really? What is your profession that you can state that children are born with Autism? I have YET to read any of that in the research. I have read that they are looking into that but nothing definitive!

All we ask is that science take a REAL look at all possibilities and that includes that some children are unable to break down the toxins in vaccines. Especially when given anywhere from 3-9 shots in one doctor visit.

There have been NO studies on the effects of mixing all these vaccines!

Chris, Kudos for your answers. I like a healthy debate. I appreciate the fact that you didn't even call me an idiot.

• I understand what you're saying, but I don't totally agree. I understand how scientists look at anecdotal evidence, but when you see a pattern in anecdotal evidence, and it is being repeated over and over, I don't see how some of these cases might not be connected. And maybe it's not autism that these children have; I've seen it called vaccine induced brain damage. Is it mercury poisoning? And why all the smoke and mirrors about mercury or thimerasol in the first place?
• If the government is subsidizing vaccines, then they are making it profitable. I do not have a problem with making profits, I'm all for it. How much profit is there?
• I understand the auto immune response. A healthy immune system is also important. Vitamin D is also key. But a compromised immune system can't protect you no matter how many vaccines you may take. Correct?
• Herd immunity is an interesting concept. I'm not sure I agree with it being what really protects us though. For instance, I believe modern sanitation played a much bigger role in preventing most disease in the last 100 years in the industrialized world than it is credited. And if you're going to vaccinate so many, it would also be nice to be able to tell who's not going to respond normally to vaccines before using them as guinea pigs.
• I'm not sure about the courts either. From my understanding, you better have a great case to win. And if they've paid out 2 billion, there appear to be a lot of great cases. It does make you wonder, are the side affects approaching the point of being worse than the actual disease?
• I couldn't say if we are seing an increase or not. Obviously, we would have to compare apples to apples, and it's just not possible since the definition is a moving target. The last figure I saw was 1 in 88, which sounds a lot more like an epidemic than last year's flu.
• Obviously scientists can manipulate the data as much as anyone. The East Anglica group and the Global Warming Hoax proved that. Just because someone is a scientist does not make them honest. You will notice, however, that the global warming crowd has not been chastised to the same level as this Wakefield fellow. I do think we can rule out Al Gore running for president again any time soon.
• I'm not sure you are correct on the Thimerasol being removed. I've heard it both ways. I understand squalene is also an ingredient in some vaccines, which sounded terrible to me when I first heard about it. But then when I looked it up, it turns out to be a natural organic compound. It just sounds bad if you don't know what it is.
• And Autism isn't the only controversial possibility with vaccines. My friend came down with GBS after taking last year's flu shot. He was partially paralyzed. His eventually got better, but he has some side effects to this day. I saw this with my own eyes. Now, did he get flu anyway? Yes. He might not have if he had not taken the shot and even if he did, he would have most likely been fine in the long run. But he's not the only one, and there are others who have deadly reactions.

Ali, thanks for your comments. You make some valid points also.

Denis- Austim (as part of ASD) is a Developmental Disorder in that sense it can start at a very young age since most people are not versed in highly analytical liteature on what behavoir indicates Autism in the earlier years of life ( a lot can happen in two years). Which is probably why it is detected around these ages of 2-5 too. Not JUST BECAUSE OF VACCINES.

One condition can overshadow another as I found out. From the age of 5-10 I had been diagnosed with childhood Epilepsy, went through three different meds, like Tegretol and Lamictal. Then diagnosed again (after being told that I had outgrown my Epilepsy) at the age of 10 once with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Asperger's Syndrome/High-Functioning Autism. Since then I've been on a Multi-vitiman and two medications, which has been about 10 years now.

But I am from a foregin country (Peru) and adopted, during the time which was my birthmom's womb and she struggled to get enough of the right nutrition. There was a lot of external stressors, like shootings, sexual violence against women and violent social instablity throughout the area I was born in.

This Anxiety from my mom in some way could've been passed on to me and made me much more sensetive to things like abrupt changes with the uncertianty.

But oh well, most days it could be anything. :P

I'm not an expert, but I do have some concerns based on what I've been reading.

According to the CDC, about 25-34 children out of 100,000 who receive the MMR have febrile seizures (siezures associated with fever). The increased risk is in a window 8-14 days after the shot. It should also be noted that the CDC said there was no increased risk of impairment in neurological development in these cases.

I realize that there has possibly been some misinterpretation of timing. The shots are given at an age when symptoms of autism are most likely to show up anyway, if they are going to show up at all. In fact, A Wikipedia article that I read said that symptoms of autism typically show up before age 3. However, Denise indicated that her son began developing symptoms (of what would later be diagnosed as Asperger's) at age 4, but only after receiving some type of booster shots. Even though MMR was not directly mentioned, I have to wonder about the timing on her son's symptoms.

At this point, it seems to me that there is much evidence weighing against Dr. Wakefield. If massive innoculations begin once more, we will all soon see for ourselves who is telling the truth and who isn't. I sincerely hope there will be no regrets.

Finally, I too find it very disturbing that specific comments on this page speaking against the vaccine were collapsed, especially considering the fact that there have also been some extended and detailed comments supporting the vaccine, made by people who apparently are medical or pharmaceutical professionals. The conjecture that these comments were collapsed because they were of no value is nonsense.

Correction: it was not the CDC but the NEJM, 2001 (found on an American Epilepsy Society page). The CDC cited mathematically similar data on its own webpage, from FDA studies, but indicated the studies were not complete as of the web posting which was before 2009. I got my pages turned around.

How many children have had the rash, fever and loss of skills immediately after receiving the mmr? I would really really really really really really really really really like to see that number.

I know a few mothers personally who've seen it happen, and I've read the same account hundreds of times in books and in internet support groups.

I would like to see: Of X number of children who received the mmr, Y had immediate loss of skills.

Would that be scientific proof or still anecdotal? Is it anecdotal because they can't prove the mmr caused the loss of skills? Is the loss of skill even reported as a side effect to the vaccine or is it always chalked up as coincidence?

Aren't these questions the CDC should be asking? Aren't these questions every doctor and parent should be asking? Are there any answers? Anywhere?

I am truly asking non- sarcastically.

Steve564412 - My 4 yr old had to get a booster MMR as we were unable to find it on his record even though I faithfully had his vaccination card with me for each visit and requested that the medical staff write it in. When I told the school IT was given at age 3, they saw he had a well child visit and received some shots but because the MMR was not listed (I should have looked) we were told he HAD to get it.

Tracy - my situtation took place in 1992. I did question my doctor as well as the Visiting Nurse when I took my other kids for well child checks. bot told me it was just a phase. When I wouldn't let it go, they sent me for counseling and arranged for him to have counseling. No results there either except to be told it was A.D.H.D. The counselor said he believed that I was looking for trouble. Right! Like I wanted my precious little boy to not hug me or even allow me to brush his hair after being able to cuddle with him for 4 years. I read everything I could about A.D.H.D. but KNEW that was not the problem. It took me 8 1/2 years and 3 states to find a doctor who agreed there was a problem. He immediately sent me to Denver to a pediatric neurologist who finally gave me the correct diagnosis. My son and I then attended a seminar with Dr. Tony Attwood and learned a lot. My fear that I may not be able to assist my son as too many years had gone by was for nothing. I spent many hours teaching him about emotions and playing out situations so he could mimic proper behavior. (he laughed and clapped at his great grandmother's funeral. I was horrified and unable to explain to anyone why as we did not have a proper diagnosis at the time). He would come home from school frustrated and hurt because he had no friends. I encouraged him to write it out. I told him he could use everything he felt inside and unable to express to put it in a story where he could dictate the outcome. I encouraged him to write poetry. Now, at age 22, he has returned to college where he hopes to be a writer. He has taught a lot of people how to be patient and more loving, as well as how to look at the world through his beautiful blue eyes. He has said that he would like to know why he has Asperger but he doesn't want to be "cured" as he like who he is, most of the time.

Denise, you are not alone. There are many others like you who have been sent to counselors because they were "looking for trouble". After all, modern medicine does not appreciate non-believers or anyone questioning their supreme wisdom. Keep asking questions and don't automatically trust authorities or anyone who had MD at the end of their name.

The rest of you may question my agenda or even hers. But niether of us are trying to sell you something. What is the agenda of those that are trying to sell us something? What is their agenda when their product causes harm? What is the agenda of our government, which seems hell bent on doing nothing good these days?

Either you don't understand or you are exaggerating beyond belief. My brother is 45 years old and he is severely autistic. NO ONE was able to diagnose his autism until he was nine years old! To say that children with "full blown" autism were easily diagnosed 50 years ago is simply not true. Mothers were told that they didn't love their children and that was the problem. Haven't you heard the term "refrigerator mother?"

So what? Regardless of what anyone thought of the cause, at least they knew there was something seriously wrong with your brother. What I'm saying is that such cases multiplied almost overnight. I probably have Aspergers, and I agree that people like my brother and me weren't being diagnosed 40 years ago, but frankly, I think that's a GOOD thing.

Denise, thank you for the additional clarification. That is very eye-opening. I'm glad to see that your son seems to be on his way to a happier life.

Ben, I have had questions about the motives of some pharmeceutical companies, as you seem to have, too. Between 2 and 2 1/2 years ago, I was the victim of some overly-eager marketing of a company that took one of its products designed for one purpose, and started pushing it for another purpose. The use for that other purpose has had many victims nationwide, and someday, the info will become public.

Steve, I understand. When someone wants to sell you something whether its food, medicine, ingested or injected, you really need to know what's in it. Why wouldn't you? You cannot depend on the government to protect you. In fact, it appears that we now need protection from our government. If you doubt this statement, just think about how many times we have been lied to in the past. Too many times to count, and that’s just the ones we know about.

I used to give much more credibility to science. I held scientists and doctors in the highest regard and questioned what they said very little. Not anymore. We have seen Global Warming repackaged as Climate Change and had it crammed down our throats for years now only to see that the planet is actually cooling; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkzNmWlCig8&feature=player_embedded# . (Don’t get upset just because this was a FOX report.) The activities at East Anglia prove that scientists are not immune to intimidation, or outright bribery. But there are plenty of honest scientists who opposed the global warming hoax at great sacrifice to them financially and professionally. They should be recognized and honored for sticking to their ethics. Those who lied should be fired and shunned. There is no place for politics, fraud, intimidation, and obfuscation in science. Leave that to the politicians, they’re experts.

If there is the smallest possibility that vaccines may be causing harm, it’s time to look into it by someone who is still credible (may be hard to find such an individual). Every day that goes by more and more lives are possibly being ruined. In the meantime, do your research. And do not trust anyone automatically just because they have a higher education than you or they were on Oprah. A little skepticism may save your life.

Ben and Steve, my post #544 near the end, is about the above subject. Someone posted a reply to my post that listed a lot of good resources on this subject.

Tracy, I read some of your posts and you seem genuine. I've noticed here a lot of opposition to the idea of any sort of investigation into vaccines. That disturbs me, and it should disturb everyone. It's in all our best interest, especially our children. The fact that it is not being looked at says to me that someone already knows the answer, and perhaps they don't want us to know. I do not trust our government. Not anymore.

Ben-1671313

Tracy, I read some of your posts and you seem genuine. I've noticed here a lot of opposition to the idea of any sort of investigation into vaccines. That disturbs me, and it should disturb everyone. It's in all our best interest, especially our children. The fact that it is not being looked at says to me that someone already knows the answer, and perhaps they don't want us to know. I do not trust our government. Not anymore.

There've been tons of investigations into the effect of vaccines and whether they cause autism, are you kidding?! When companies even try to cover this stuff up, they are caught very quickly, just look at the old Vioxx scandal!

Think of the lucrative class-action lawsuit given the sheer number of recipients of the MMR vaccine! If there was a positive and reproducible direct-relationship between the vaccine and autism, numerous studies would have shown it.

To date, no one has been able to scientifically prove, or even show a direct correlation. The ONLY study that ever did manage to has now been shown to be a fraud.

Lastly, your comment:

I do not trust our government. Not anymore.

Why did you EVER trust our government? That was foolish. There's plenty out there to be worried about, and government corruption is playing a part in screwing us all, but it would be better if you focused on something of real gravity, rather than chase your tail with the pseudo-science and nuts like Jenny McCarthy uses to stay in front of a camera.

Focus on SLAPP lawsuits related to food disparagement laws; how the FDA doesn't adequately inspect large commercial growers; how big pharma has been allowed to consolidate itself into a handful of massive oligopolies that restrict the supply of important drugs and artificially raise prices in the process.

Because you're focusing your attention away from actual problems that have a clear source, you're solving nothing with the energy you expend.

Autism is a very unfortunate family of disorders, best we spend resources trying to truly prevent and treat it rather than go nowhere and point fingers unnecessarily =)

No, not that kind of fraud.

But on a side note, I have some tinfoil hats for sale. Very reasonable prices.

im sure he already has basement full of tinfoil, food can, guns, clean water.... oh yeah, he believes in the Eastern Bunny too.

If you think what I posted is wrong, prove it.

It's not. BTW, the tinfoil hats are the new fad in LA where the dead birds are falling from the sky. Should be manditory if you live within 5 miles of any Monstanto factory.

You're listing facts. Great. I believe you. Yes, the government knows about GMO and does nothing about the risk. All facts.

Doesn't change the FACT that Wakefield is a fraud.

Josh, I agree with you that Patrick sounds a little...hysterical.

But, it is surprising how many doctors, nurses, and other health care workers absolutely refuse to get a flu shot.

fiscal - ..............................its absolutely surprising that so many normal Americans refuse flu shots in general...why assume that those in health care are any saner than those not in it? You want to know the two jobs that produce the weirdest psychos on the planet? Dentist and Orthodontist... don't beleive me? get to know one - they all have severe mental trauma of sorts..

You two are so brainwashed it's funny.

Lets go over my post:

Aspartame - it's in your soft drinks, kids vitamins ect... TRUE STATEMENT

Phony drug studies - FDA pulls drugs off the market all the time after finding out the studies were falsified. TRUE STATEMENT

Antibiotics - Just released, 240 MILLION TONS used last year. TRUE STATEMENT

GMO FOODS - 44,000 Documents and are GMO's on the market, yes. TRUE STATEMENT

Vaccines - Still Birth Rates are 700 times higher after a flu vaccine. Search the net, the facts are there if you are interested. TRUE STATEMENT 1 in 100 are helped by vaccines, it's big pharmas only study. TRUE STATEMENT

When people die from the flu, they don't tell you how many had the shot prior. - TRUE STATEMENT

FDA run by Monsanto? - The people in charge of the FDA are former Monsanto reps, officers and lawyers. Wikileaks just released a document showing our ambassador to France wants the country to be punished for NOT allowing GMO foods. The government is working for Monsanto. TRUE STATEMENT.

Why don't you two quit trying to be cute and get a real education before showing your ignorance by posting on these forums.

Absolutely spot on. How ridiculous, drugs solve problems?

well, waver, if those in healthcare are not "saner" than those who are not, why should we trust them at all with our healthcare? Sorry, but your post is utter and complete nonsense, and totally illogical.

Quote from Patrick: "If you think what I posted is wrong, prove it."

Patrick, as any first year student will tell you you can't disprove a negative. Your argument is suspicious on multiple grounds, you provide no background to your claims and generally spout off information that we're used to hearing from tinfoil hat wearing crowd.

Next time, try to post some facts you can actually back up with references.

That's the problem with conspiracy theories. Toss out a bunch of facts and let people think someone is out to get them.

If we got rid of pharmaceuticals, vaccines, food additives, antibiotics, etc. today how many of us would still be alive? A lot fewer I can bet. That does not mean that there aren't problems with the current system but it is the conspiracy theorists who go so far one way that they would toss the baby out with the bath water.

Now ask yourself honestly if you would still be alive today or better off if it wasn't for all the evil empire's products you have benefited from over the years.

Yeah, and I bet a Catholic Priest has never molested a boy too... you know, because we entrust them with our kids and to help lead us in some moral direction.

fiscal, jesus are you serious? For starters, i know a lot of people in healthcare. Obviously you do not. Why should we trust them with our healthcare? GOOD @!$%#ING QUESTION. They are humans, not gods of sorts, so there is some possibility, my freind, that some doctors/nurses/whatever might not actually be real healthy in the head. You're serious? You blindly think a profession someone carries directly relates to how mentally secure they are? So by this thinking, I have to think you feel that people who work on cars are all scammers. Or that an Arab probably drives a taxi. Hey, I bet all you think firefighters are the nicest people in the world too. Because you've never known one.

Totally illogical? Totally? all or none with you huh? how's church working out for you?

You, kind sir, ARE abso@!$%#inglutely illogical.

I have a son who is autistic. Trust me I've done years of research; I happen to agree with Patrick1112710! You others say he cant prove any of his words; you all cannot DISPROVE them! The scientific world, for years, has and will continue to keep us in the dark until we laymen can learn enough to do our own studies.Why is my son autistic? I never smoked, did drugs, drank. My mother made me eat my vegies, and clean my plate thank you very much! I was an athlete. No one before my son in my family has autism...You all just THINK you know sooooo much! F off! and btw, my son was diagnosed when he was 2, in the state of AZ, 6 yrs ago.

Still, what bearing does that have on an anti-immunization nut who has been shown to be a fraud? Seriously though, he is nutty the same way those anti-psychology nuts are, in saying there is no such thing as mental illness. Its all a plan to push drugs. As I have said before, any woman who kills their kids, because something makes her think they are better off dead, and it is the right thing to do for them, is very mentally $%@*^!

Well, the fact is probably that autism has NOTHING to do with any kind of drug exposure by the parents or newborn child. It could well be a random chromosomal regulatory change during development so that the social information processing parts of the brain don't connect.

Don't like vaccines? Fine, I hope you have a good time when your kid is in an iron lung or is permanently damaged by rubella. Those are real, hard outcomes. And even better, your unvaccinated children can contribute to others getting these diseases as "herd immunity" is eroded. Thanks, don't change a thing!

@Patrick---I randomly chose a couple statements that you made and googled them. Reputable websites and 100% on the money. Thanks for the post---I feel more informed.

BTW---I was joking

Hey Pat- WELL, the answer bucko, is to NOT avail yourself of anything that modern society produces. So stay away from the dentist, the doctor, media, ....pick one.

Move to Pakistan- they are heading to the 16th century from the 17th, and I'm sure they need a dhimmi to work for them. A simple, short life.

Thanks Patrick you're spot on. I knew a few of those things you said to be true so I didn't automatically choose to believe pharma like these other drones here. After doing some research I found you're completely right. Thanks for the help.

Okay, Patrick, let's see your 'proof'. I'm not denying what you're stating, but you're being quite acrimonious to others in this discussion, throwing a gauntlet down with these so-called 'facts' and telling others to prove their point.

Doesn't exactly make you a reliable source of information. If people want to know why autism has been on an exponential rise these past 20 years, why don't they look at all the kids who were drugged up with Ritalin and Prosac for 'ADD' and 'ADHD' in the 70s and 80s. Or how about all of the diet drugs adults are so fond of. How about steroids?

Of course, now kids are guzzling Monster drinks and all these new 'energy' drinks and parents just let them do it, without regard for long-term consequences. People want the quick fix, always have, and don't care about what it will do their future children.

Yes, the government sucks, but so do far too many parents who would rather drug their kids than work with them.

Patrick... You are some kind of fool! The total (2009) WORLD production of soybeans is only 210 million metric tons. Are you out of your mind telling us that 240 million tons of antibiotics are in the food chain? Maybe you just messed up the amount of zeros in your article. Please get your facts straight before you post here again!

Patrick -

If you want people to take you seriously, why don't you post a link to a website for a reputable organization where you get your information? Especially the claim that there is a 700% increase or whatever in the rate of still births from women who got a vaccine. Or my favorite, the coverup of all the deaths or people who took the flu shot. I get a shot every year and have not had the flu since the early 90s. You can't expect people to go through the work of doing the research of claims they view as ridiculous. The way you do it, you are only preaching to the believers. And if that is your goal, why do you bother to post here where no one will take you seriously.

Otherwise your posts do provide comic relief. As much fun as watching Kyle and Stan on South park reruns.

Patrick

The vast majority of "drugs" the FDA pulls or forces to change their labeling as a result of phony/doctored "studies" are so-called "natural" drugs/supplements/vitamins -- TRUE STATEMENT

Your "big pharma" tirade is getting boring, especially when you pull so many "facts" from "news" websites that are actually the sales arms of "natural" cure companies and love to quote articles out of tabloid-style papers like The Daily News. Additionally, you fail to recognize that if "big pharma" is so bad, why is the life expectancy of poorer nations as well as primitive tribes, both of which lack "big pharma", lower than that of "advanced" nations? Why is the still born rate significantly higher in countries that completely LACK access to a flu shot? Why is the leading cause of death in primitive, indigenous, Amazon basin tribes stomach ulcers that could have been prevented/forestalled by over-the-counter remedies like Pepto-Bismal or Mylanta??? Oh the horrors of big pharma, protecting us from an early painful death!!

Why should I have to disprove statements I haven't seen proof of in the first place? Offer me valid proof and argument and then I might consider your statements.

Patrick,

I hate to do this, but I have to call B.S. on a lot of the things that you said.

1. Yes, it is true the Aspartame is a used as an artificial sweetener product; however, that is a subject for the 1980s. This argument has been pretty well dead for decades. Granted, you have your right to an opinion, but pretty much all evidence points to aspartame being safe at its current consumption rate.

2. Phony drug studies - where were you going with this? Yes, it's unfortunate. Yes, the FDA misses things at times. Do you really think the FDA has time or budget to duplicate every study submitted to them? It requires integrity by researchers. It just sucks that it doesn't always happen.

3. Antibiotics - I hope you realize that you said 240 million tons of antibiotics were used last year. That is 480,000,000,000 pounds. 480 billion?!?! So, the average person on the planet used 96 pounds of antibiotics. I'm going to have to see an actual reference on that which doesn't come from an "end of the world" website.

If you're referring to the amount that were used in farming or ranching on foods that we eat, then I would encourage you to at least take a look at a pharmaceutical text book to find out about systemic elimination of antibiotics, how they are broken down, types of antibiotics, etc.

4. Genetically Modified Foods - 44,000 documents? What is this number even referring to? Is there a website or journal where these are at? Or are you just throwing out a number that you read on a website? I'm sure some GMOs are bad, but some are quite beneficial.

5. Vaccines - You contradict yourself. In your first post, you said that 1 in 100 flu vaccines work. Then, in your second post you manipulate the number to tell a different story. You said in your second post that 1 in 100 of all vaccines work. That's just not true in either case. Nobody is saying that vaccines are 100 percent effect. They require herd immunity. They don't work for everybody. Specifically, nurses who get the flu vaccine experience the flu at a rate 42% less than those who choose not to get vaccinated.

6- You're right, every possible stat in the world is not kept. That does not mean that somebody's trying to hide something. Sometimes, they are. I seriously doubt that the people in charge of these studies worry too much about convincing you and the crowd you hang out with. From my experience, nothing will. However, there are studies comparing infection rates in those that are vaccinated compared to those who are not vaccinated. You're obviously not looking hard enough.

So, since you are questioning other people's educations, I want to ask where you got yours. Your random spewing of incomplete facts is not very impressive. I try to be respectful of other people's opinions. You can avoid what you want and encourage others to do the same. I support that. However, I would encourage you to at least do more fact checking first (on both sides of the fence).

I do realize that in a million years, what I wrote here will not change your mind. However, there are those here who might be swayed by what I wrote to do some fact checking on their own.

Have a Happy New Year!

Patrick: All of what you said can be found if these brainwashed ostriches would open their eyes and close their mouths. They'd rather be spoon fed and believe whatever big pharma wants them to believe. These poor infants are drowned in shots before they can even see. Maybe if they spread some of the vaccines out over time and see if the autism rate drops. Also, Aspartame is known to cause aneurysms and they knew it before they even started using it. Pepsi and Coke both did not want this in their product, but they were pretty much forced into it. Research it.

I'd much rather wear a tin foil hat on this one than bury my head in the sand like the ostriches on here.

dsrtflr: I'm sorry about your son.

I make this comment as someone who has absolutely LOVED and FOUGHT FOR the Autisitc children that I have cared for, to the point of leaving my career to go back to school for Occupational Therapy to be able to help them acclimate to society. And to the parents of autistic children, please get them as much therapy as you can and try any healthy diet that might help. I can't say any ONE remedy can heal them, but some diets and many therapies can make things easier, as long as they are not detrimental to their overall health.

That said... I will not say a broad statement that ALL vaccines work always. But I will say that I personally tested the Rabies vaccine that many of you have given to your dogs and cats. And it worked. Specifically, the Merial IMRAB, yes, according to USDA testing regulations(I did other vaccines as well) I was required to test EVERY SINGLE SERIAL of vaccine we produced, by vaccinating a certain amount of mice with the vaccine, and then seven days after their booster shot, I personally injected the rabies virus into the brains of those same mice (and some control mice to make sure the virus would kill). EVERY BATCH of the vaccine must pass the test before being released. If it didn't pass, it got two retests(due to sometimes tester error) and if it did not pass, it was destroyed. (this is the abridged version of what we did, as the test was much more specific as to how many mice were vaccinated and percents that must survive, etc.) Human vaccines are created and tested in the same way animal ones are, just using specific strains to humans. This said Thimerosal is not a very nice substance, and I would not take a vaccine with it personally.

I will also not say that vaccines are ALL good. I personally believe that when it comes to any medicine or vaccine, we should be more cautious about what we put in our bodies. We do not need an antibiotic EVERY time we get sick. I do not get the Flu vaccine, because I do not remember the last time I got the flu, and also I am not a risk factor for complications to the virus. I do not advocate getting vaccinated for something unless it is a risky disease for the indiviual person(like influenza with the elderly and young, or those with asthma, etc), or it is highly contagious and prominent in your region. I am not big on the Chickenpox vaccine, unless a person is at a higher risk of fatality or complications. But because I tested with live Rabies virus, I was vaccinated for it, yes. I do believe that natural immunity is best when someone is generally healthy and not prone to disease complications. There are two types of vaccine typically used. Modified Live Virus, and Killed virus. Killed is basically that the virus was grown in a cell stock and then inactivated or killed, and MLV is when a virus that is typically harmless to humans has a genetic portion of the "virus desired" spliced into the harmless one. These introduce the virus DNA into your body to produce an immune reaction by your body, without actually infecting you. So those who say they "got flu" from the flu vaccine, did not get the virus from the vaccine, they got the same symptoms that your body will produce when you are infected by the virus to fight it. But it will not invade your cells and replicate in your body(which is how viruses work). The symptoms you get, fever, aches, etc, are symptoms of your body producing an immune response.

In relation to autism, I believe that there are BOTH genetic and environmental factors to Autism. I believe that certain people have a genetic predisposition to Autism, or to a vulnerability to getting it, but then certain environmental things make it come about(and nothing has been proven as a cause for every case of autism with 100% certainty... Sorry people, but that is a FACT). I have seen twin studies where both identical twins were vaccinated with the MMR and one became autistic, and studies where both twins WERE NOT vaccinated with MMR, and one got it. Also Autism is very hard to diagnose. It is not like you can go to your doctor and get blood drawn for a titer. It is a series of tests done by Psychologists and specialists using DSM-IV guidelines. Many children diagnosed at 2, 3, 4, have been autistic their entire lives but symptoms were not noticed until developmental delays, especially speech were seen at 1 yr, 18 mos, etc... There are also disorders that are confused with autism such as Rett Syndrome and Fragile X.

This said, this Wakefield guy, having been PROVEN to be a fraud, has only SMEARED the name of people who are trying to TRULY find the reasons for autism. But I also say, there really is no need to get your child vaccinated for ALL THREE at once. You do have the option of vaccinating your child for all three diseases a few months apart, but docs push the MMR because insurance co's do not want to pay for three visits. You can also ask for Thimerosal-free vaccines (Thim is a mercury based preservative) And I INSIST that whatever your decision is, be sure that your doctor is following your orders. do not accept a doctor that will only give certain vaccines and forces them upon you as it is your decision.

PARENTS OF CHILDREN WITH AUTISM: DO NOT blame yourselves. DO NOT feel bad because you think you did something wrong or missed something. You know you love your child if you feel the least bit guilty, even though there is nothing you could have done to change this. Just start from TODAY. Do what you can from today forward. Please get your child all the help they can, and just love them. Know they literally cannot do some of the things most children can do, like sharing toys and hugging (some Austistic children can, but don't feel bad if if your child doesn't). Make sure they are in a school that knows how to help them, and is educated about autsim, as this will help your child grow. And also, watch the HBO movie Temple Grandin. It is SO inspiring!!!

Eric-2189088 - Dr Wakefield was never anti immunization! He just believed that maybe MMR should NOT be given as one shot or at one time but to be spaced out by a couple weeks or even a month.
I alos believe that the other authors were threatened with their licenses so as to discredit Dr. Wakefield. Not one person tried to repeat his study in order to disprove him, yet everyone is ready to say he is a liar and fraud. I would like for someone to repeat the study and give us the data but that won't happen and if it should, I am quite sure that big pharma money will be paying for it in which case I would not believe it. The more vaccines given, the more money big pharma makes. Do you honestly believe that they would have no influence in the study? they certainly will NEVER admit that they screwed up. They are too fearful of the money they could lose even if they are covered in the U.S. by the vaccine court.

Patrick, you're simply headed in the wrong direction. Your just listing things and ASSUMING that we all should know why they are bad. The fact is most of the things you list are simply scapegoats and hysterical fears created by rumor and ignorance. So what if the FDA passes GMO's or if there is aspartame in some food? What you think you know isn't half of what the truly informed understand about these things. You are simply dead wrong on most everything you say.

My background is in biochemistry and I am a working scientist. None of my money comes from any industry and I can tell you that federal funding does not mean federal control. Scientists are free to do what they want and publish what they want, but if it doesn't pass muster, as is the case with Wakefield, your piers will find out and you will be cast down as a fraud. Neither money nor information are the currency of science, integrity is. Integrity of data leads to integrity of reputation. Money is just a means to that end.

No single study is good enough to prove anything. Duplication by many different and independent labs is necessary for consensus. There is simply no consensus supporting your views or those of Wakefield. In fact there is a great deal of consensus opposing them (even though the persistent internet rumor is that there is not). When there is no independent proof of one scientist's conclusions it usually means something is wrong with their work. That is part of the business of science: outing frauds and proving the mistakes of others. I'm sorry, but facts are facts. Factiness and truthiness are not. Rumor and hyperbole are not facts. Internet anecdotes are not facts. Following the money doesn't lead to facts. Only facts are facts.

You can make fun of Patrick all you like but he makes a lot of valid points. And aspartame is poison. Enjoy your diet coke.

Funny because 3 of my children had major issues with the vaccines and almost died after getting them. Funny how their personalities changed to more aggressive within months after getting their shots. Funny how the fourth child did not have any of these extreme issues because we decided to wait until she was two to start the shots. Oh but the fact she is fine is not factor right? Or the fact that one of the boys developed Autism after getting the shots is all in our heads. What kills me is people like you who seem to trust the pharmaceutical companies. It's not like they would have ANY reason to lie would they! They don't create drugs for profit, no is all for the betterment of society. Sorry trying to maintain a straight face here. And lets not forget who regulates them. The corrupt and underpaid FDA. By the way Brad in Colorado you don't get a doctor to rubber stamp Autism. There is standards that they have to pass first before a doctor will state it is a case of Autism and not just a case of under developed social skills. You would know if your kid was one of them.

god bless.. Robert 294233

What is your background to make such statements? There are side effects to most all drugs, vaccines included, so who are you to simply dismiss this! Albeit, the study was flawed, but i'm not convinced that there are possibilities of such outcomes. And yes, Brad, i know what I'm talking about, seemingly unlike yourself.

Robert, sorry to hear about your children. I wonder if you know that children typically develope bad attitudes. No, wait, it's autism fo' sho' cuz some tv star said so, yo!

Let me propose a different idea.

It's not the vaccine that caused the problem nor the additives for preservation. It's the fact that people now pump all the vaccines into a few shots during infancy instead of spreading them over months and years like they used to do in the 60's and 70's. There was a time when it was recommended not to get ANY vaccinations until the child was 24 to 36 months and not in the battery of shots that they do now.

You admit that the 4th child that has not been affected by vaccination never got the first shot until she was two. Kind of revealing isn't it?

I post this with great respect and hope that you and yours enjoy a long and fruitful life. I mean no ill will but I post in proposing a hyposthesis for honest discussion.

Brad M - while I agree with the vaccine/autism link being a fraud, your idea of autism is WAY off base and a serious problem if we're going to move forward with figuring it all out. I work with children of autism and while some parents might see it as just "weird social behavior", if it's diagnosed correctly, you will see there's a lot more to it and not always an easy fix. It takes a lot of time, patience, and cooperation from parents and professionals for the child to have a sense of "normalcy".

Robert,

My son changed after his shots too. He was developing normally as a baby then started regressing after his MMR shot. He is now dxed with Autism Spectrum Disorder and is on an IEP at school I think there are kids who are too sensitive and shouldn't be vaccinated according to the CDC's aggressive vaccine schedule if at all.

If some kids can be severely allergic to peanuts then there must be some kids who are intolerant to the ingredients in vaccines.

Unfortunately, due to aggressive marketing by the drug companies, the American public is given a false sense of security that the shots are completely safe when in fact no safety testing has been done on the culmulative effect of 24+ shots given according to the CDC schedule on a young childs immune system or on a childs neurodevelopment. No toxicity testing is done on the culmulative effects of the shots or a childs mitochondria.

Theres a lot the public does not know including the fact that millions of dollars in gov't payouts have been made to people injured by vaccines. That there is a vaccine court established to hear cases of vaccine injury.

If someone wants to get shots then by all means go ahead, but respect my right to decline.

I respect your right to decline but in turn, you need to keep your unvaccinated child AWAY from anyone and everyone who is at risk for contracting any of these diseases because they are too young to be vaccinated. When you can respect other's rights not to contract theses diseases through no fault of their own, then I will respect yours. Deal?

dear autism parents: News flash: NOT ALL KIDS ARE THE SAME. What is good for your kid, will be bad for mine. We are not all "created equal".

Just because your kid had a bad reaction, does not mean that mine will, or even will not in the future. I sincerely wish you well with your kid(s), but condemning vaccines because some people have an adverse reaction is like taking cars off the road because my kid wrapped my car around a pole. Doesn't mean yours is going to.

Bad things happen to good people. Good things happen to bad people. It's called "life"

Please explain how my child is a threat to yours if your child is vaccinated?? Unless you have no confidence in the efficacy of the vaccine, then there shouldn't be a problem.

My son has had all his shots required for entrance to public school by age 2.. most parents I know have had there kids vaccinated because we believed they were safe and we wanted to protect our kids.. too much a good thing can be a very bad thing for some kids.

Shots should be spaced out more and at the very least the CDC should safety test the immunization schedule that they promote to peds. I mean safety test all the shots given according to the CDC schedule in total not just individually.

So let me guess ... these same vaccines have been used since WWII, yet only in the last 20 years have they suddenly cause all of these autism cases. Yeah, I believe that ... not.

Want to know what changed? ADD and ADHD diagnoses in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Kids being drugged out on Ritalin and Prosac and other 'new' drugs. But since you people believe in a fraudulent study, it's GOT to be the vaccines.

How about looking at studies of children who were NOT vaccinated. Know the results? No difference in autism rates. AT ALL.

But you people cling to your beliefs. And ignore all the other potential factors.

The truth is, children most often start to show signs of autism at exactly the time when they are getting the bulk of their immunizations. For that reason, many people feel that they are absolutely linked, which is not and has never been true.

Your unimmunized child is a threat to others because there are kids who are not old enough to be immunized for some diseases who may contract a childhood disease from your child. Further, there is the issue of the embryo, who is vulnerable throughout the pregnancy.

As for flu shots....here is one medical professional who gets them faithfully, every year, as do my children and grandchildren, and we will continue to do so.

Brad M

Anyone who for a moment who thought Vaccines caused Autism was a farking moron, plain and simple.

What's worse is from what I can tell many cases of autism really aren't autism, but just children with less active social skills,

#3 - Wed Jan 5, 2011 4:11 PM PST

What they are is desperate for an answer as to what's wrong with their kid and they won't accept one of the two obvious selections:

A) Genetics

B) Environment

As for robert's post, I'm sorry to read that, but the vaccine isn't to blame because millions of other children get the same vaccines and experience no problems. Furthermore, we know know that autism presents itself in subtle ways long before the inoculations.

A doctor close to me suggested that it's our ability to move around and pick more selectively our mates that is contributing to the rise in autism. Now that we're not forced to limit our potential partners with the local groups we live near, humans tend now to increasingly find people who are more like themselves, which any geneticist would tell you is not the best idea. Now that we're no longer limited to mixing genes with more variety, incompatibilities are starting to take form in the various autism cases we see.

My cousin has five children( Bless Her) and her oldest son was diagnosed with autism. However, her other four children are perfectly normal. They all received their vaccines at the recommended ages just as her first son (the only one with autism).

If the MMR vaccine caused his autism, then by some arguments all of her children should have autism because it is caused by the vaccine.

I'm not trying to be negative or confrontational just adding to the discussion.

I'm not saying that vaccines don't play a role in autism, but I can't say they do either.

The many people who say their children started to regress after getting the MMR, did you ever think that this is the age where autism rears its ugly head and the MMR schedule just happens to coincide with onset of autism?

The problem with any theory regarding the cause of autism is that no one really knows what it is or exactly how it should be diagnosed in the first place.

Just putting some thought out there. I wish there was a black and white answer to the cause of autism or diagnoses or treatment for that matter.

I am happy to say my little cousin is healthy by all other means.

if your children are vaccinated and the vaccinations work then you have nothing to worry about

The reason some children develop it and some don't is due to the state of the child's immune system at the time of administration of the vaccine. I got all of my shots, developed with no problems. My brother on the other hand had a compromised immune system ( which is why doctors are NOT supposed to give a vaccine if the child is sick in any way, but they do it anyways. ) Due to this compromised immune system the mercury in the shots used as preservation was too much for his body to handle. Causing an almost immediate reaction. Autism is a growing problem and you don't know what it's like until you experience it.

Anyone who for a moment who thought Vaccines caused Autism was a farking moron, plain and simple.

What's worse is from what I can tell many cases of autism really aren't autism, but just children with less active social skills

--

My son has Asperger's Syndrome, a "higher functioning" subset on the autism spectrum. I was always skeptical of the vaccine-causes-autism position and, the more I studied it, the more convinced I became that autism is by FAR a genetic condition....all types of it. My own sister would have been diagnosed with AS, and my husband's brother, too; however, they were born way before even the psychological community was much aware of the condition.

Folks, the REASON for higher incidences of autism is merely because people are aware now. The DSM-IV only included AS in 1994...and AS dx's are included in the overall stats about autism. These dx's don't account for the entire rise, but prior to general awareness, kids would just be labeled mentally retarded.

This really isn't a hard thing to understand, IMHO.

Oh, my son is now 25, doing well, working in a science lab, earning good money. We attributed this to early intervention and an insistence on appropriate modifications provided at his public school.

As someone who has dealt with autism for years and as someone has a relative with it (as well as someone whose niece has another developmental disability!), you have a choice.

You can either spin your wheels by allowing your son to become a completely dysfunctional adult, or you can do what my cousin's wife did and fight against autism.

Do you want the results?

The older son wound up in the United States Army and the younger son is in a public elementary school, while both have their respective issues, both are excelling far beyond the prognosis they were given.

The choice is yours, robert. Make the right one and he will thank you for it later. All I can say is don't baby him-at all. I've seen what happens when parents do that. They resent their kids for being so rigid.

Parents of children with autism (like myself) may be labeled as "ignorant" for thinking that a vaccine may be a factor that causes this disability. But the reality is that we will believe anything to make out some sense of what's happening to our children, and that makes us only human.

I like the way you Ostriches had Patricks comments collapsed. That Proves you have your heads buried in the sand.

You know what chemtrails are? You know what happened to the honey bees? Oh, that's right, you all could care less.

BTW, I have a developmental disabilty myself. I wasn't expected to do jack @!$%#. I was supposed to be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life without any ability to talk, move or think.

So, Robert, it really is all up to you.

Brad M

Anyone who for a moment who thought Vaccines caused Autism was a farking moron, plain and simple.

What's worse is from what I can tell many cases of autism really aren't autism, but just children with less active social skills

First off, nice calling folks morons. I DARE you to say that garbage to my face. Second, I have a friend who moved here to America from Cuba with her 7 year old son. He never received 1, not 1, vaccine in his life. He was a normal, healthy boy. Comes to America and is forced to be vaccinated and guess what? He developed autism shortly after. Now douchebag, tell me how this happened and what is the link?

Jthomas:

How about looking at studies of children who were NOT vaccinated. Know the results? No difference in autism rates. AT ALL.

Would you care to provide a reference? I don't think you will. How about also providing us a with a RCT comparing the health of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated. There isn't one.

RetiredRN

Your unimmunized child is a threat to others because there are kids who are not old enough to be immunized for some diseases who may contract a childhood disease from your child. Further, there is the issue of the embryo, who is vulnerable throughout the pregnancy.

You still fail to show how someone's child is a threat. Your making an erroneous assumption that unvaccinated means infectious with a deadly disease. It doesn't.

As for the whooping cough for which you allude to if you cared to research the California outbreak you'd find that most were vaccinated.

Robert, let us just put it this way. We don't let dangerous criminals walk around society because they hurt us. Similarly we don't want unvaccinated children walk around in society because they hurt our children who do not yet have immunity. It is a good thing schools require proof of vaccination, if your child isn't vaccinated, I don't want him/her hurting mine, simple enough.

It's sad for YOUR child, but necessary for the safety of everyone living in the society.

Similarly we don't want unvaccinated children walk around in society because they hurt our children who do not yet have immunity.

You're comparing an unvaccinated 4 year old to street criminals? seriously?

So tell me again how an unvaccinated child hurts your child. You're missing some facts that someone has, unbeknown to you, put in your head. Wouldn't a child have to at least be infectious to even pose a possible threat? How long would this child be infectious for. And, even then, who would be at risk for possibly being "hurt" by this child. Aren't most children vaccinated? Aren't they protected? If you want to say "what about the children who can't be vaccinated" then you need to reference how many of these people there are and for which vaccines you refer to.

Are you people insane?! Thimerisol never was removed in vaccines! They still use it as a cheap perservative. Read the insert on your shot. It's there. It's manditory in all multi-dose vile vaccines. Some vaccines only come in the form with thimerisol in it (example: the flu shots). My mom is a nurse at U of M hospital and has worked there over 20 years. People automatically assume their doctors don't make mistakes and end up making a choice that will cost them and their children.

Just so we're all clear thimerisol is a form of Mercury, the most potent neurological toxin there is. How can you inject in your blood and NOT get side effects?!

Another one of these studies that disproved the Autism-Vaccine link using blood tests said the same thing as this article. However, there is one important fact the scientists didn't mention...Mercury doesn't show up in blood tests, it binds to tissues in the body. It can, however, be shown in urine porpharine tests. A few years ago my family had this form of testing done (Side note: my little brother is autistic, and my mom and I have aspergers). In every member of my family who had had a vaccine from a multi-dose vial their levels of Mercury were ridiculously high. In my little brother, Kevin, his levels were so high that our doctor was surprised that he was even alive.

When Kevin got his vaccines he turned blue and the doctor's refused to admit the vaccines had done anything. He was a perfectly normal child before those shots. Afterward he forgot everything he had learned previously. While he is doing much better now after intense IV celation and Immunoglobulin my brother will never be able live a normal life thanks to vaccinologists who care more about profits than people's lives.

It is sad that we live in a world were human life means so little.
And no, Brad M, I. am. Not. a. "farking moron, plain and simple."

Robert @ 3.1

"Funny because 3 of my children had major issues with the vaccines and almost died after getting them."

I cry BS. This not only would have be major news in medical journals, it would have been jumped all over by the anti-vaccine crowd & fed to the popular media.

Would you rather have non-thiomersal (that's the correct spelling) vaccines which are home to colonies of bacteria instead?

Thiomersal is an antiseptic. Before it was used, preservation came at the cost of efficacy.

And no, thiomersal is no longer used in routine vaccines given to your kids, even though it has been proven to do no harm.

In other words, a crock of BS. You ingest much more dangerous compounds by eating a popsicle, in much higher concentrations.

Would you rather have non-thiomersal (that's the correct spelling) vaccines which are home to colonies of bacteria instead?

You mean non-mercury vaccines aren't pure? They have bacteria colonies in them?

You ingest much more dangerous compounds by eating a popsicle, in much higher concentrations.

What if you inject the popsicle?

Robert:

You asked somebody up above for a reference regarding comparison of autism rates in vaccinated versus non-vaccinated children. Here are eight references:

1. pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
2. pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/114/3/584
3. pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/112/3/604
4. jama.ama-assn.org/content/290/13/1763.full
5. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa071434
6. archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/65/1/19
7. www.ajpm-online.net/article/PIIS0749379703001132/fulltext
8. pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/112/5/1039

As you can see, you're wrong. There is no difference in autism rates between vaccinated children and non-vaccinated children. Many of these studies even hint to the fact that vaccines can be protective against neurological disorders.

Regarding your argument about how your non-vaccinated child places other children in jeopardy: Simply put, he doesn't if he is the only one not vaccinated. However, when a large portion of the population remains non-vaccinated, then it becomes a problem. All vaccines require a certain percent of a population to be vaccinated in order to be effective. It's called herd immunity.

There will always be a certain number of people who do no respond to a vaccine. Because of this, they are only truly protected if everybody around them is protected. Thus, if the vaccine doesn't work for a child who got the injection, then they need everybody around them to be vaccinated.

This is the concept. It's a true concept. That's the best that I can explain it. Sorry, if you are unable or unwilling to understand.

Vaccines that do not contain thiomersal can not be stored for long periods of time and can not be stored in multi dose containers. With the advent of modern technology, it is no longer needed to safeguard against contamination during the synthesis of the vaccine and as a result they have removed it from virtually ALL shots given to children under the age of 6 (since 1999.) The flu shot is one of the few given to children that does contain thiomersal, though it is also available without upon request. Furthermore, in every study that I've ever read regarding this matter it is demonstrated that children actually pass the majority of ethylmercury in their stool and urine, and very little actually remains in the body for any amount of time. Lastly, autism rates have increased over the last ten years since thiomersal has been removed from childrens vaccines which would be the opposite of what you would expect to observe if there was a causal relationship between the two.

I am not sure about a Popsicle being more toxic than vaccinations but logic would dictate that if eating it was bad for you then injecting it would probably be worse.

For those of you who think the link between autism and vaccines is ridiculous then answer a few questions for me. Biomedical research is something Jenny McCarthy supports to no end. This approach tests children on many INTERNAL levels, such research has found that many autistic kids have high levels of mercury and other toxins, they have gut problems: "leaky gut". Basically this approach tells what problems in a childs body are suffering, not the mind, the body. The thing with many of these internal problems is they can be fixed. Children will start on an assortment of natural pills that replace some of the vital things that are missing in their bodies. If high levels of mercury are found, they start a detox program to get metals out of their body, something their immune system can't do on it's own. The results are incredible. Granted, not all children benefit. But, the majority do. It shows that if you clear up the things that make them feel crappy and foggy inside their body, it can clear up their mind and make them a functioning person.

So, tell me, if autistm is infact a genetic issue and not an environmental issue, why do they benefit from natural treatment? Unless some crazy scientific breakthrough has happened, you cannot fix a genetic problem with a supplement. Also, tell me why many of these children do have a mercury overload. Honestly, let's face it, where else are you going to get mercury into your system? I read in one of Jenny's book that the amount of mercury in a vaccine administered to a baby would be a suitable amount for a 245 lb man. Uhh, yet it's safe to put that into a baby?

This idea of unsafe vaccines and biomedical treatment is gaining more and more attention. People have the choice of researching the issues and making themselves knowledgable or they can read ONE article and think they know everything about autism. It took years of reading books, researching, and living everyday with an autistic child for me to come to a conclusion about what I believe. Don't act like you read one article and you know what you're talking about.

.

Yes! References! From Peer Reviewed Journals. There are eight quality references staring you in the face. Yes, they are longer than the two paragraph articles that you're used to reading on your typical extremist websites.

I'm sorry - I couldn't get in touch with God to have him appear in front of your face and tell you that you're wrong. So, I simply put together a good starter list for you. Considering your five minute response - I'm assuming you didn't read a single one.

But, at least somebody else can look them up and learn from them.

Don't get me wrong. Autism is a very sad issue. Nobody has the answer. It just bugs me when people pretend like they have the answer. Stopping vaccines does not stop autism. Science backs that up.

Have a good one.

I couldn't agree more and there are a couple of other things to consider: 1. older couples are having children now, and they never used to....older eggs,& sperm give rise to all sorts of abnormalities...Down Syndrome, for one. 2. Autism also may be caused by all of the additives put into foods.....or... air and water pollution.

Whether you believe in climate change or not, air pollution has to be changing our bodies. Parents follow every "tom, dick and harry" when it comes to don't feed your baby any fruit, cereal, fruit juices etc before they learn to drive...Look at the young children who are allergic to peanuts and peanut products. When I grew up, no one was allergic to peanuts. All of this stupidity stems from "so-called— medical specialists who forbid parents to expose their children to anything other than breast milk. Children have become the "bubble boy". I gave birth to six children and never breast fed any of them...they had Enfamil and never puked up that soured nasty "natural breast milk" and they were as happy as could be. They each slept through the night by the time they were a month old, didn't have "colic" because their tummys were full of good wholesome Enfamil and they smelled wonderful.. AND THEY WEREN'T ALLERGIC TO ANYTHING. They drank milk, fruit juices and ate rice cereal (at first) plus Baby Gerber Peaches, Apple sauce...bananas...etc

As you can see, you're wrong. There is no difference in autism rates between vaccinated children and non-vaccinated children

Did you actually read those studies? Which ones were RCTs? Do you understand what "unvaccinated" means?

Please just look at the facts instead of believing a book written by a woman with no medical degree. Many of us that are in favor of vaccination, including myself, have small children and have done the research on the topic out of genuine concern. I am sorry that others reached a different conclusion than you did, but to contend that you are more informed simply because you have a child with autism is not a correct assumption.

I'll even do the work for you, look at table 1 and you can see which vaccines contain mercury. I suppose the FDA could be lying on their website but if that is what you think then I don't know what to tell you.

#t1

Robert:

Yes, I'm a doctor. I understand these studies. I have read them. They were peer reviewed. I have a good understanding of the subject. I understand what it means to be vaccinated. Specifically, these deal with thiomersal and its proposed link to autism.

You can read them to find out if their methods are up to the all-mighty Robert's standards. There are several types of randomly controlled trials (RCT). I assume you mean a double-blind study. The type of double-blind study, that you're surely hinting at, on a non-consenting child would be very unethical. You will never see one. Any one who claims to have performed one should be questioned. However, they are epidemiological studies which are very sound.

We all wish the answer were as simple as, "no more thiomersal." Unfortunately, it's not. I only gave you eight references. There are hundreds, if not thousands more out there.

Don't get me wrong, I know I won't convince you. You care more about being right than you care about solving the problem. At least others can read them.

It appears you're trying to argue some version herd theory and very badly.

Regarding your argument about how your non-vaccinated child places other children in jeopardy: Simply put, he doesn't if he is the only one not vaccinated.

Uh, you're forgetting one thing aren't you? My child has to actually have said disease to even potentially spread it. What about tetanus? Can she spread tetanus to an unvaccinated person? Lumping all disease and vaccines into one box doesn't make for a good scientific argument.

However, when a large portion of the population remains non-vaccinated, then it becomes a problem. All vaccines require a certain percent of a population to be vaccinated in order to be effective. It's called herd immunity.

So are you saying that your vaccine will not "activate" until your neighbor is vaccinated also? Is you vaccine somehow not "effective" and dependent on someone else' vaccine status.

excuse me, but i truely believe that these shots do have something to do with the problems mentally and physically with the children of today. i am not saying that they are totally to blame. think about it. we all had the same shots as kids. how many of us have autism, add, adhd......... these poor kids these days are given shots for everything and there isnt a thing we can do to protect them. its is the law that they have these shots before starting school. yes i do think the enviroment and the stuff they put in foods these days are also to blame. just think about all of these things combined at an early age.

ajbdmb

Yes, I'm a doctor.

You must be kidding!

THE FACTS ARE THAT I LIVE WITH THIS AND EXPERIENCE THE SAME THINGS THAT THIS WOMAN WHO WROTE A BOOK DID. I don't need a freaking medical degree or book to tell me what I experience on a daily basis. I'm not saying I'm more informed because I deal with it every day. I'm saying I'm more informed because I do research and I do read other books than Jenny's including some by many doctors who have been researching this for years. Jenny's books do provide some quotes from specific doctors, but they also give people a sense of hope. We can hope by reading her books that things will change, and we know that we're not alone.

First - No, I'm not kidding.

Second - I did make a generalization to make a point. Tetanus is not spread human to human. It is spread via fomites. Herd immunity applies to diseases spread from human to human, not from animals to humans or from fomites to humans.

You're just trying to point out details that have nothing to do with the point at hand. I wasn't making a "scientific argument". I was simply explaining something that you obviously don't understand. You tried to make somebody else feel dumb because they couldn't explain how your child puts their child in jeopardy. As a result, you were called out and now you are choosing to argue a point to which you already knew the answer.

Excuse me for not pointing out every exception to the rule. If your child is not vaccinated again tetanus, then you're right. It is very unlikely that he will affect any other child.

abjmd:

There will always be a certain number of people who do no respond to a vaccine. Because of this, they are only truly protected if everybody around them is protected. Thus, if the vaccine doesn't work for a child who got the injection, then they need everybody around them to be vaccinated.

What if my child has already has antibodies for said disease? Does that count enough for your herd immunity? Or is only vaccines acceptable?

That would depend on the disease and the titer revealing your child's level of immunity (depending on the disease, if a titer is available, etc.). It becomes hard to give straightforward answers when it has become clear that you only ask questions to fish for a general answer and criticize the exceptions. You are just trying to bait people.

Do you even know what antibodies are? Do you even understand how they're made? Why they're made? What makes them? The five different types? What type can cross the placenta? How old a child has to be before they can produce their own? What parts of the body secrete each types? etc. You know nothing except for how to spell 'antibodies'. Yet, you pretend to be an expert who has a right to question others.

Do what you want with your kids! I'm not taking that right away from you. You should have that right. I'll fight for you to have that right. Just stop acting like it should be a decision without consequences from those around you. It DOES affect others.

Here is Robert's (not terribly bright) point.

If Child A has not been vaccinated, she is not automatically a threat to anyone else. Child A has to, first, actually become infected with whatever it is that she has not been vaccinated against in order to become a threat. If Child B has been vaccinated--then theoretically, Child A only has a problem for herself even if she becomes infected.

This logic only works if everyone else has been vaccinated and Child A has not. If there is just the very rare Child A who has not been vaccinated, then the likelihood that Child A threatens Children B-Z is really quite low. It is not, however, nonexistent.

Here are the issues: not all children are yet vaccinated; not all children who are vaccinated actually become immune; not all children are "children" (some are teenagers or older adults who were vaccinated so long ago that their immunity is now lowered--some diseases require a booster) and some become pregnant not knowing that they are once again susceptible to said illness.

Child A, then, represents a potential (if not yet active) threat to all these individuals mentioned above. Let us say that lots of people are as stupid as Robert and start to not vaccinate their children. We will call these Children A1-A100. If only one of these children becomes infected, it is very likely that all Children A1-A100 with whom he comes in contact will also become infected. This multiplies the risk to all three categories of individuals mentioned above (the too young, the didn't-take-the-first-time, the got-a-bit-too-old and their fetuses).

Further, Children A1-A100 will incubate the disease possibly allowing it to mutate and then threaten pretty much everyone, regardless of whether or not they were vaccinated.

So, yes, a potential danger is a danger--it is an actual danger, if not an active danger in the same way that a nuclear warhead that is pointed at your house is a potential danger even if it hasn't yet been launched at your house as an active danger.

Doctors are interested in potential dangers and in eliminating said dangers because they, you know, like to prevent problems rather than treat them after they have occurred--which is why they like to give vaccinations.

Personally, I do think that people should know that vaccines really can cause bad reactions. There are some children who die from vaccines--but that is because all medical procedures have some dangers. One has to weigh the known rate of bad reactions against the known rate of infections from the given illness.

I do not believe that vaccines cause autism (I don't think a child is going to "get" autism from a vaccine), but I think that a child who already has autism and runs a nasty fever as a result of a vaccine (or has an allergy to some component of a vaccine) might have his/her autism aggravated to the point that it is noticeable. I also think that a child who has autism and is exposed to too much electronic device stimulation can have his/her autism aggravated to the point that it is noticeable, by the way. The likelihood that said child would eventually be exposed to that same compound that was in the drug (not necessarily the mercury derivative) or run a nasty fever is extremely high. Eventually, that child's autism is almost certainly going to become noticeable.

There might be a case or two in which a child might not have had his/her autism aggravated had s/he not had the vaccine--but this is not an epidemic or enough of an issue to avoid the vaccine, just as the occasional death from vaccines is not enough of an issue to avoid it. All medical procedures have some risk involved--some children die from going to the dentist--and Robert needs to deal with that.

Well, if there really is a Robert who has children. Frankly, I think Robert is a teenager who likes to bait people and is inventing stuff out of the clear blue sky--but that's how discussion boards work.

Just so we're all clear thimerisol is a form of Mercury, the most potent neurological toxin there is. How can you inject in your blood and NOT get side effects?!

Have you ever eaten a tuna fish sandwich? Did it kill you? Has your child ever eaten a tuna sandwich? Did they die?

Every time your child eats a tuna sandwich, they are absorbing more mercury into their bloodstream than they did when getting a vaccine.

For what it's worth, you do want side effects when you inject vaccines into your bloodstream, specifically, developing antibodies for diseases. That's kind of the whole point.

All of these people making the argument, "Well, my child got vaccines and then developed autism." The argument works just as reasonably if you say, "Well, my child started eating solid food, and they developed autism." Solid food is obviously bad for children, since millions of children have developed autism soon after starting to eat solid food. We don't hear about it because the solid food industry doesn't want to lose a lucrative market.

ajdbmb: You are of course aware the "studies" you listed are based on a study of thimerosal and neurological disorders that:

a. did not assess for autism and so cannot be used to disprove or substantiate any claims regarding thimerosal and autism

b. the original study specifically excluded encephalitis or brain inflammation which is linked to the development of autism and thus selective sampling excluded potential autism cases

c. tested a population from birth to 7 months which is well before the full exposure of thimerosal was received by the study participants

d. the other studies based on that original data, published in NEJM are not "new", "independant" or otherwise groups of children other than the original selectively sampled, non assessed for autism children prior to an age when autism is most commonly diagnosed

you did know that before putting the eggs in the basket to claim those publications are "proof"...right?

Do what you want with your kids! I'm not taking that right away from you. You should have that right. I'll fight for you to have that right.

What about the child's rights? I think it is a darn shame that children have to suffer diseases that would otherwise be preventable if they were properly immunized.

Byron: You are of course aware the tuna sandwich encounters a mucosal barrier throughout the digestive system and the immune system responds differently to mucosal surface exposures or toxins than injected ones?

You are also, of course aware that children with autism also have bowel disease conditions (and if you don't want to listen to Dr Wakefield, listen instead to the gastro team at Mass General in Boston) which exposes them to mercury, aluminum and toxins differently than people who have intact and functioning guts, so that in your tuna fish example, are more like to accumulate higher levels of the toxins overall?

I'm sure you are also aware that vaccine are cultured in media derived from the foods to which people are the most allergic and that aluminum (like in the vaccines) when injected with food proteins, is the way that researchers create food allergies in lab animals?

Eating a food and being injected with it are two entirely different situations, calling for entirely different immune system responses. Creating a puncture wound to introduce genetically modified viral material in a solution of detergent and culture medium with oil emulsions and heavy metals and random viral contamination is not how a body recognizes it should mount an immune response to an airborn or bodily fluid transmitted or surface contact exposure to a virus. Inevitably immune dysfunction occurs when the body is overexposed to foreign material in this fashion.

The point is moot, however, in the circumstances of Dr Wakefield, et al, suggesting further study be done specifically on MMR and the incidence of autism. MMR never had thimerosal in it. It does however, have residual food proteins and aluminum,and manufacturers caution about giving it to children with a history of allergy. Unfortunately these vaccines are given at such a young age the only indication of an allergic reaction to an ingredient occurs when the vaccine is administered.

There is likely far more to the "solid food"causation than you suspect. So convenient that you brought it up.

JThomas2121 - yes, some of these vaccines have been used for many years. However, kids today get MANY more vaccines than what was given then or even in the 50's and 60's. I am NOT against vaccinating. I am against giving a child 6-9 vaccines at one time.

I have one child with Asperger syndrome with A.D.H.D. and one with A.D.H.D. w/Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Two of the other children have no problems. I believe that 2 of my children were able to break down the toxins in the vaccines better than the 2 with problems. Since there is no way to tell if a child will develope a neurological disorder, the best thing to do is space out the vaccines. I believe the age of the child as well as the amount of vaccinations given at one time and the child's ability to break down the toxins all play a part in the host of neurological disorders that have increased over the years. I have no proof as no one has done an honest study in this area. Everyone is just too willing to say "No! That is not the cause." Then they keep pushing that message instead of truly looking for the cause.

I am 51 years old. I have my vaccine record. I got the polio vaccine, whooping cough vaccine and a couple others. I had a total of 6 vaccines. My kids had over 20. No, I did not get a vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. I lived through those diseases. I also lived through chickenpox, which kids are vaccinated against today. My sons did not get vaccinated for chickenpox as they lived through that one just prior to the vaccination being released. However, for education purposes, they did have to get a blood test to PROVE they had the disease.

What is it that makes this article, medical journals, doctors, pharmaceutical companies, or even the CDC so believeable, but eyewitness testimony from people like Robert and other front line parents unbelieveable. Robert was there. So were many other partents who notice a difference immediately when their children are vaccinated. Why are they maligned and their comments collapsed? Am I the only one who sees a pattern here?

really? where?

go forth and vaccinate!!!

I have 4 sons, all vaxed according to schedule. They range in age from 14 to 4.

3 of my sons are developmentally normal.

my 11 year old son has Aspergers, which is on the Autism spectrum.

I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE BELIEVE THOSE SHOTS CAUSED IT.

yes, that's right. I do not think the shots have anything to do with HIS or any other person being an the spectrum. In fact it makes me sad to read all these comments from the ASD parents that do. Most days, I don't even CARE what caused it because my son is the child he is supposed to be, and I love him and don't want him any other way.

On the other hand, I do want to know...because there are a lot of kids that could benefit from that knowledge.

You need to be exposed to the millions of parents who have had a child develop autism in direct association to a vaccine.

And for Catie: do not tell me that a shot can't cause autism. Have your child tested for mercury. Many children with autism have a very high level of mercury in their system, pretty much the only source would be from a shot. Do not tell me that I didn't watch my brother change after he got home from getting the MMR vaccination. There was an enormous change and that change put him on the autism spectrum. Now your child may not have developed it from vaccines, not every child does. But don't you think for one minute that all these parents are lying about the correlation between vaccines and autism.

Actually, your kids are far more likely to build up high levels of mercury eating seafood than from their vaccinations. And as for mercury, it used to be the stuff in thermometers, and it was a favorite childhood pastime to sit and play with the stuff any time a thermometer broke. Despite that, autism was pretty much unheard of when I was young, and it wasn't because they weren't diagnosing it, it was because it wasn't there, or at least not in any significantamount. We also had cribs and homes with lead-based paint, drank unfiltered water, rode in cars without car seats or seat belts (there weren't any), I could go on and on, but you get the idea, I hope ....and not only did we thrive, but my generation has made more scientific and technological advances than any other in history.

Look elsewhere for your cause, because if you believe the current research my entire generation should have been a large mass of gibbering idiots, and it just didn't happen that way.

I might not agree with what some one says on these forums, but easy on the community collapses.

I understand "the code", but you guys are censoring the guy for speaking his version of the truth. If you are offended by profanity, don't read it.

Better watch out though--that have this Internet thing, television, etc and they say dirty things all the time. (sarcasm)

Ali

Was the sun out that day? Maybe the sunlight caused his autism. Did he eat Rice Krispies for breakfast? Maybe they caused the autism. Did he wear blue jeans to the appointment? Maybe the blue dye caused the autism.

Did the vaccine trigger or exacerbate an ALREADY PRESENT TICKING TIME-BOMB genetic pre-disposition for autisim? Maybe...or maybe it was a coincidence just like all of the other factors listed above. As for mercury in vaccines, it has been used since the 1930's, was previously used in much higher concentrations, and was found in ALL vaccines prior to the 1970's (was removed from many as unneccessary when single dose vaccines vials began to be used rather than multiple dose vials -- the mercury is in the preservative that prevents bacterial growth in the vaccine as it is repeatedly exposed to air through the breach in the cap by needles for multiple doses from the same vial), BUT the dramatic RISE in autism diagnoses didn't occur until AFTER the disease was redefined to include what previously had been a smattering of unrelated personality traits and learning challenges.

Everyone has some level of mercury in their system these days, especially if you eat any seafood on a regular basis.

mercury is also in the dial-style thermostats (the mercury in the bulb completes the circuit) also in CFC lightbulbs... millions of those are popping up.

And if you have three kids who all get sick, it's obviously something more related to GENETICS than to that the unlikely event that vaccines are causing it.

The reason autism wasn't around years ago is because the amount of shots administered over a lifetime was much less. 5 shots per year jumped to 20 shots per year, with the majority before a child is 12. To accompany that, during the same time that the number of shots increased the number of children with autism increased. Don't you begin to tell me that seeing a child seize after having a shot when they have been fine before that isn't caused by the shot. And the amazing thing is. There are parents who had a child seize and didn't believe it was from the shots, because that's what doctors tell you. But, then the next time these children got shots they seized again. All of this along with diagnosable signs of autism. You can be ignorant and say it could be anything like the sun or rice krispies, but come on now, in this world there isn't much in the environment that is truly safe. Doctors tell you there are trace amounts of mercury in shots, which is once again a lie.

And genetics do play a part in autism, that's a given. But those who research and live with autism every day know that there is another side to the story. Everyone wants to turn us down and tell us we're wrong. Take a walk in my shoes for a day, or anyone who deals with an autistic child every day. Seeing these kids suffer from autism is heartbreaking, don't put down those that are trying to make better lives for their kids. Quite honestly the new approaches to treating autism are working with great results. Kids don't have to just live with it, parents don't have to sit back and accept it, these children's lives CAN be made better. Don't try to put any parents effort down.

Retired RN 439841 What you may fail to realize since you have retired is that children today get far more vaccinations then we ever did as children. In the 50's and 60's we received an average of three shots. Children today get as many as 36 shots and that's not including any flu shots they may take in addition to the vaccines.

Before you have your child or grandchild vaccinated be sure to ask your doctor if they have had all 36 of the same shots they want to give your child. Or better yet ask your doctor if they are willing to inject that amount of mercury into their own body adjusting for the difference in weight between and adult and a small child. If the doctor would be so bold as to do so I sincerely believe you would see the gibbering idiot you are referring to.

I am not totally against vaccines but I think we are going overboard with them. In 1976 a child got 10 vaccines before they started school now they get 36, 24 of them before they are 1 year old. As far as thimerosol being safe there has never been a study, in 60 years that prove it. We just have to take the pharmaceutical company's word for it. In the 1980's autism was found in 1 in 10,000 children, in 2005 it is 1 in 250, and today it is 1 in 150. Perhaps this is why we are lagging in education. And now Big Pharma to maximize profits uses more adjuvents (Chemicals like squalene) to induce an immune response and less antigen. Parents should make an informed decision about vaccines and not just blindly follow what their doctors say. I think more and more doctors are working for big pharma and not us, the patients.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/pages/the-danger-of-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development.aspx

ALL children get more vaccines. The number of children who get autism might have increased, but it is still a tiny fraction of the total number of children. It is obvious that vaccines do not cause autism. For every child you can show me who got autism after getting vaccines, I can show you 20 who didn't.

Byron:Its good you can show the ones who didn't get autism following vaccines...now go through that group and cull the ones with food allergies, ADHD, asthma and other learning disorders. Subtract from the ones who are left the ones who develop blood disorders, autoimmmune conditions and immune disorders. Guess what you have left? an extremely small number of children who actually survive the vaccination schedule unscathed by the experience.

Thank you GrammaKnows! Now, if only people will read and think about it.

The mercury preservative (thimerosal) was removed from all childhood vaccines in the US in 2002. The autism rate has not fallen. Stop blaming mercury!

Secondly, while the amount of shots has increased, the amount of antigen in each shot has decreased to the point where kids are actually receiving a smaller overall dose of virus and bacteria particles than they were 30 years ago. Because scientists continue to refine vaccines so that they are more effective with less risk, just like the anti-vaxers keep claiming they want.

so Gramma according to you, practically EVERYTHING that hurts a child is caused by vaccines? None of those disorders/diseases you list are caused by genetics, environment or just plain bad luck???

I do think that in some cases, the vaccines MAY have a causel effect for other disorders, IF there are other factors involved...and there have been too many changes in the environment, foods, water, air quality over the past 20-30 years to completely rule out or rule in causes of each of the disorders you mentions, not even considering the guidelines for diagnosing them...and yes I have a son with Asperger and ADD, and I personally believe that his being born 5 weeks early plays a part in both of those, as well as the symptoms of Aspergers and ADD I see in older family members on both sides for him...but would I EVER consider not vaccinating him against potentially deadly diseases? NO WAY.

Gramma,

show your math

@ Ali:

Have your child tested for mercury. Many children with autism have a very high level of mercury in their system, pretty much the only source would be from a shot.

Be reasonable for a moment and think this through. The concentration of mercury in a multidose vial (thimerisol is only in the multi dose vials to keep it sterile from use to use, the single dose does not contain it and neither do the recommended childhood vaccines) is lower than the amount of mercury in a helping of tuna. Tuna contains methyl mercury and thimerisol is a form of ethyl mercury. Thimerisol given by intramuscular injection is cleared from the blood at a faster rate than the methyl mercury absorbed from the intestines after eating tuna.

So several facts:

thimerisol = ethyl mercury

tuna = methyl mercury

There is less ethyl mercury in a vaccine than there is methyl mercury in a helping of tuna.

ethyl mercury is cleared nearly three times faster from the body.

there is no thimerisol in recommended children's vaccines, yet autism continues to rise.

Methyl mercury is found in the environment and we are all exposed to it, so if children have persistently high levels of mercury in their bodies perhaps you need to be looking for other sources.

The levels of mercury that are required in the brain to cause damage are much higher than anything that could possibly come from shots - even ones with thimerisol.

The math simply does not add up.

Our bodies are extremely complicated and often somewhat unique in makeup. Autism is likely one of those things we can't pin on one cause. You can pin influenza on one bug (at a time) but my naive understanding is Autism is more about the wiring going wrong. Probably not a single 'cause' but a set of domino's falling, remove one domino and the rest won't fall.

The dangers of the diseases we vaccinate against tend to weigh against not vaccinating, even if there were a decided inarguable link with autism. We should be vigialant of course, we should make sure they are safe... but at this point we may be missing more important factors by focusing on this one.

Thermisol though, that stuff gives me the creaps. But as noted has NOT been used in child vaccines in years.

You want to know why our children ARE getting these disorders? We eat far more sugars, far more 'special grown' foods, are exposed to more tv and sendentary lifestyle, drink more redbulls and a billion other factors. You want to convince me that autism is caused by vaccines you are going to have to show me organic farmer's children who've been vaccinated getting it about the same rate.

Excellent post, radagast. I was trying to find my sources regarding the two types of organic mercury but you beat me to it.
I still haven't found any sources that link ethyl mercury to disease or neurological dysfunction. Methyl mercury is, however, quite neurotoxic.

As a physician with several autistic patients, I obviously read a lot. Ali-do you have any reputable sources that state "many children with autism have a high level of mercury in their system"?

I substantiate radagasts claim that even tho thimerosol has been removed from all but some flu vaccines the incidence of autism has continued to rise over the past decade.

radagast:

I'm aware of seafood being a source for mercury. But personally, I know people including my brother with austism. Of the children I know with autism, as a child they didn't eat fish. Children are picky, not many of them are going out for seafood. Considering many children are diagnosed before three years of age, I find it very odd that you're telling me all of these children just ate seafood. It doesn't matter what type of mercury is in these things. The reason it's an issue is becuse these kids immune systems are broken down. They can't get the mercury out of their systems which is causing the mercury to stay in the system and do damage.

And I don't need to give you a specific journal or article. I can tell you from the conferences I've been to, the many parents I've talked to, and my personal experience that high mercury levels can be a problem for autistic children. Never did I say all, I said some. And trust me, I've been to many, many conferences and meetings and talked with parents in the same situation I am, and many can tell you mercury has been a problem for their child.

CHeck out this link about the Amish population-

Autism used to be diagnosed as simple "retardation". It generally WASN'T diagnosed correctly, back in the day. People used to think smoking was simply bad manners or a "dirty habit", not actually unhealthy or deadly. A lot has changed over the years and decades since I was a kid in the late 50's and 60's. That certainly includes medicine and science. I mean, mothers used to drink while pregnant ALL THE TIME (not mine, if that's what you were thinking...), and there was no particular reason NOT to, back then. Kids got thrown into the back seat, no car seat. Sugar was used in EVERYTHING. There were NO diet sodas or "Weight-Watchers" type of meals in the store (except "Tab", which was the very first as far as I know).

Anybody who claims autism is some raging new anomaly is simply bananas. And claiming mercury toxicity in today's children is a result of childhood vaccinations is truly asinine. In fact, the more widespread the affliction, the less likely it could be due to medicine contamination, of ANY kind. All that stuff is tested to death. It's always possible something weird could happen once or twice in limited quantities, but nowhere NEAR enough to be causing a measurable percentage of modern autism cases, totally undetected. It's just impossible.

We need to look elsewhere for the real solution, and quit wasting our time on total crap like this. I understand why parents are concerned, but you're looking to blame something (or anything) else for your child's problem that, most likely, came directly from YOU. Just the way it is. You may not like it, or believe it, but most of us know it's the truth. Just like baldness, blue eyes, "big bones", and bad teeth. The cause of autism is certainly no different, really, although it's a lot more serious, I realize.

You people truly have my sympathy. But I'm sorry, it's not the vaccinations.

Considering many children are diagnosed before three years of age, I find it very odd that you're telling me all of these children just ate seafood. It doesn't matter what type of mercury is in these things. The reason it's an issue is becuse these kids immune systems are broken down. They can't get the mercury out of their systems which is causing the mercury to stay in the system and do damage.

There is no truth to any of these claims, esp. the part about immune systems being "broken down". The type of Hg does matter-see radagast's post why.

And I don't need to give you a specific journal or article. I can tell you from the conferences I've been to, the many parents I've talked to, and my personal experience that high mercury levels can be a problem for autistic children.

Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence.

Ali-2872976

And for Catie: do not tell me that a shot can't cause autism. Have your child tested for mercury. Many children with autism have a very high level of mercury in their system, pretty much the only source would be from a shot. Do not tell me that I didn't watch my brother change after he got home from getting the MMR vaccination. There was an enormous change and that change put him on the autism spectrum. Now your child may not have developed it from vaccines, not every child does. But don't you think for one minute that all these parents are lying about the correlation between vaccines and autism.

--------------------------

What you have is not evidence of a link between vaccines and mercury in a child's blood, nor do you have evidence of a link between vaccines and autism.

What you have is POTENTIALLY related items (child, vaccine, mercury in blood) and you do not have a specific case, you have 'what you've heard and read'.

I don't think parents are lying - I think that they are grasping at straws and are desperate to find a cause and a cure. I know damm well I would be if this happened to one of my children.

What we have here is amateur night at the science fair.

Child + vaccine + eventual diagnosis with something bad = cause and effect

It's not that simple because there are too many unknowns and too many variables.

Did the child already have an unknown problem that would have revealed itself at the same time anyway?

Did the vaccine actually contain mercury?

Did the child eat lots of seafood that caused him to have mercury in his blood?

Were there genetic defects that didn't show themselves when the child was younger?

Did another disease that the child have cause the issue?

Did something environmental (and not the vaccine) cause the issue?

and so on.

Simply connecting dots and proclaiming that you have the answer is amateur night at the science fair. It's not real science - but it can look and sound like it.

Add in pile of studies that don't follow scientific method to support the 'answer' because you so desperately want to be right, couple that with other desperate people and voila - you have the current anti-vaccine autism movement.

IMO, "anecdotal evidence" is basically a subset of "eyewitness" evidence...which has been proven time and again to be the least reliable form of evidence. Ask a cop. People witness the same crime or accident and report completely different scenarios and facts, and that happens all the time, WAY more often than not. The reasons behind that are many and varied, but include lying, biases, money, self-preservation, vantage point, time lapse, power-of-suggestion, you name it. No other form of evidence is as likely to be wrong, as eyewitness evidence. And these days, even more so than in the past.

just like other forms of "eyewitness" or personal accounts of events, the problem with anecdotal evidence is it's completely in the eye of the beholder. If you don't know the beholder or give him much credit, it's entirely worthless information. That doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but it DOES mean it can't, necessarily, be trusted.

Ali, my daughter was vaccinated AFTER Thermosal. Please explain her autism (she was diagnosed at 3 at the low end of the spectrum with possibilities of another underlying syndrome that we have not found yet). My younger son is fine. I have never believed the vaccination/autism relation was the end-all answer and neither should you or anyone else. The true answer is out there still. Thousands of years ago when there were eclipses of the sun, people thought the gods were angry. Thank goodness we know better. If I were to go by your reasoning, because I had an epidural with my daughter and not with my son, the epidural was the cause - case closed, end of story, put a ban on all epidurals. I'm not making light of this because, who knows, maybe there is a connection, but I'm not going to assume and tell all women not to get an epidural.

Also, your statement: Of the children I know with autism, as a child they didn't eat fish. Children are picky, not many of them are going out for seafood. So, just because you never saw a child eat fish means none of them do? My children like fish. They even make fish sticks to appeal to kids. Also, it doesn’t mean mothers don't eat seafood during pregnancy/breastfeeding.

Perhaps vaccinations can cause an allergic reaction in some (i.e. some people are allergic to penicillin) and is being misdiagnosed as autism. I also googled about Jenny McCarthy' son - there are quite a few articles about Evan's autism possibly being misdiagnosed (Landau–Kleffner syndrome). I didn't see where Jenny states this herself, so it looks to be some arm-chair doctors giving a possibility. But, it is a possibility that could be the truth.

My daughter also has epilepsy. People can seize for a variety of reasons and seizures are not always clearly seen (she has both petite- and grand-mal). Petite-mal can be a 1- or 2-second eye-roll or even just a blank stare (can look like daydreaming). You would never notice it unless you knew to even look for it. Febrile seizures are sudden spikes in temperature. I read an article about a girl who seizes from hearing a dog barking, Miley Cyrus and Beethoven. That article explains that sounds and even smells can trigger a seizure. Too much stress or excitement can trigger a seizure with my daughter - even with her anti-seizure meds. So, there is a possibility that something else could trigger your brother's seizures. Are you absolutely 100% sure your brother doesn't petite-mal seize at any other time and the stress of getting a shot brings out a grand-mal? These are possible explanations.

Don't take what I am saying the wrong way - I feel for your brother and your family. It's frustrating not knowing WHY and in our times we gotta know the answer not today, but yesterday. Just like autism, there is no understanding of what causes epilepsy. I'm just saying that we all shouldn't stop looking for the true cause.

My son has Autism. I have made sure that he and his siblings all received their vaccinations as scheduled and I do NOT believe for a single second that they are the cause. There are too many possible causes which in combination could be for why the spike in ASD is being diagnosed so much more now a days, many of which could be that we have learned to recognize the signs better. For example, my grandparents would say that his speech delay was probably just because his older siblings talked for him (which they didn't) instead of realizing that there really was an issue. There are behavioral signs that can start appearing before the child even gets their first MMR but many parents don't seem to notice them because either they are new at being parents and don't realize its not normal behavior or because they don't want to acknowledge it because, subconsciously, it means that their child is not normal.

Autism has affected my entire family's lives because of my son. It is a difficult thing to deal with as a parent, knowing that your child may not ever have a normal life and its terrifying to think of what will happen to him once my husband and I are no longer there to stand up for him. But there are too many factors involved to say its from the MMR vaccination... I think its just about the time that when a child gets the MMR that they have reached an age at which it is no longer possible to be blind to the signs of ASD and as parents, we psychologically, need to have something to blame to help with us grieving that we will have to deal with this challenge for the rest of our lives.

Ali,

I never said that autistic children got mercury poisoning from eating tuna, I merely stated that there is more mercury in tuna than in the childhood vaccines. It is widely known that methyl mercury is more toxic than ethyl mercury (thimerisol). However it has not been shown that mercury poisoning is a cause of autism. Yes, high levels can lead to brain damage, however those levels are much, much higher than what the shots can deliver.

The reason it's an issue is becuse these kids immune systems are broken down. They can't get the mercury out of their systems which is causing the mercury to stay in the system and do damage.

The immune system has nothing to do with the clearance of mercury from the body. Studies in monkeys given thimerisol containing vaccinations shows it is cleared in a matter of days - much faster than methyl mercury, and it never reaches toxic concentrations.

I would really like to see verification of toxic levels of mercury in autistic children. Anectdotes are not proof. Simply having a measurable level of mercury in the blood does not mean it is a toxic level. So if parents have had their kid tested they may not understand what the information means and may simply be jumping to uninformed conclusions. This is very similar to when arsenic is detected in water. The proper question isn't "is it there", the proper question is "how much is there?"

This whole argument is rendered moot by the fact that thimerisol has been removed from children's vaccines many years ago. Children are not getting mercury from vaccines.

How can you get a build up of mercury from a shot that doesn't contain mercury?

In the end, it ends up being like seatbelts. People will anecdotally tell you about someone whose 'thrown clear' and that seatbelts will trap you in a burning car. But statistics (in my case personal experience, so an anecdote) tell me to strap in. We should endeavor to make the shots safer if we can, and frankly I have little doubt even 'cold evil' big pharm doesn't want that.

Ken K-oPho

How can you get a build up of mercury from a shot that doesn't contain mercury?

In the end, it ends up being like seatbelts. People will anecdotally tell you about someone whose 'thrown clear' and that seatbelts will trap you in a burning car. But statistics (in my case personal experience, so an anecdote) tell me to strap in. We should endeavor to make the shots safer if we can, and frankly I have little doubt even 'cold evil' big pharm doesn't want that.

Agreed! +1 for you

It's nice to find a breath of fresh air given all the brainfarts I keep running into on this thread ;P

Oh and before the 80-90's, if you're weren't normal you were always sent somewhere else, and in a few cases being kept a secret from other siblings in the family throughout their lifetime.

Which could also account for the lack of comphrensive data and studies on the Nature of Autism with how it manifests itself in the brain affecting the development of a child, before the 20th Century.

Good point Light. Look at the movie The Boy Who Could Fly (1986). The lead character was a boy with a moderate but functional level of Autism and in 1986 the recommended treatment was to ship him off to a hospital/sanitarium. A mere 25 years ago you were considered too damaged to contribute to society if you had what can now be mostly overcome/handled to become a productive member of society.

To Ali in 4.4: Mercury is generally a bad thing... you're right about that. However, the amount of mercury a person used to get (since it's not in there anymore) in their whole life time from vaccines is comparable to what you get from eating 3-4 cans of tuna. I'd like to see your references for the 'high mercury" levels in kids with autism.

The same is true for aluminum. You get more aluminum from daily life than from vaccines.

I understand that people want to know what causes autism and people want to be able to stop it from happening, but we should look more at the industrial pollution and other environmental toxins we're spewing out than at highly regulated and safety proven medications.

Oh by the way... to those who think that there is profit being made on vaccines, you are wrong. Many pediatricians no longer even stock vaccines b/c they lose money on them (I should know, b/c I am a pediatrician and I do stock vaccines), and there are often shortages b/c pharm companies can make more money off of cholester meds and meds for erectile dysfunction than they can off of vaccines.

TJW-2819083

to those who think that there is profit being made on vaccines, you are wrong

YES!!!!

I love all this nutsos going on and on about big pharma when it comes to vaccines! The US government and much of the rest of the world has to subsidize the production and dissemination of vaccines! There's NO profit in the venture whatsoever!

One need look no further than orphan-diseases to see that big pharma would rather stay away from vaccinations than anything else

Novartis Profit Rises on Pandemic Flu Vaccine Sales

Sanofi’s Profit Rises on Vaccine Sales

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/business/11sanofi.html

Vaccine Industry Growing Amid Increased Funding, Higher Profits

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/61874.php

Novartis says swine flu vaccine boosts profit

January 26, 2010

Swiss pharmaceutical group Novartis posted on Tuesday an 8.0-percent jump in core annual net profit for 2009, saying that business had been boosted by sales of swine flu vaccine.

http://www.physorg.com/news183705900.html

Global Vaccine Market To Top 23 Billion Dollars

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Global_Vaccine_Market_To_Top_23_Billion_Dollars_999.html

J&J eyes vaccine market with $2.3 billion Crucell bid

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B71R720101208

Ali - you need to get past the assumption that mercury was only introduced into a child's system ONLY thru a shot. There are other possibilities. Do I believe mercury can cause illness in a child/adult? Yes. Do I believe that a sufficient amount of mercury can come from a shot to do this? No

Robert-1126350

Indeed, and WHO was their biggest customer? Who was paying ANY price to rush the vaccines to completion.

GOVERNMENT ;P

Most people were getting, and ARE getting their swine flu vaccines FREE! It's taxpayer dollars buddy.

Yes, there's profit in the venture, WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WILL SUBSIDIZE IT =)

ON top of it they're stealing from the government. Our own money.

The government subsidizes vaccines because it is cheaper than treating the complications caused by the disease the vaccine prevents.

Say what you will, but I am old enough to remember friends with leg braces from polio, and I have seen children sustain lifelong catastrophic damage and even die from what we used to term UCHD...Usual Childhood Diseases. As a parent and a grandparent, my feeling is that having an autistic child is far better than having a headstone to visit.

get him for treason...

he is indirectly killing American.

actually get him for genocide. he indirectly killed children all over.

GTFYRE: What an incredibly stupid thing to say. Jenny has a son with Autism and you are blaming her? For questioning the drug companies after a "trusted" doctor came out with this important study, relied on by many experts.

This study made the MAJORITY of parents worried when having to vaccinate their children. You are nothing more than a mouthing-off jerk to say such a mean & hateful thing to a good mother worried about her son and also using her means to try to educate other mothers. Use your stupidity on Wakefield.

She helped push a line of reasoning about which she was totally ignorant of, and about which there were many studies and analysis to the contrary staying that it WAS and IS safe! She helped scare who knows how many parents into not getting the MMR vaccine for their kids....who knows how many of them suffered.

You're right, Stu. But Wakefield is British, so I doubt that we can do much to him as Americans, for better or worse.

Until February 2010, when the Lancet retraction occurred, he was working in Austin, TX at a place that claimed to help autistic children. I hope he is not still practicing in the US, as his British medical license was revoked in May, and he does not have a Texas license.

Ali-2872976, I have to agree with you. Jenny is just trying to educate and empower other autism families through her experiences.

I see that many of these threads are not focusing on the real topic which is the fraudulent information this doctor provided to the world about vaccines and autism. This is a very delicate subject for the people who live with a person with autism. It is so difficult to digest that for one reason or another you cannot communicate with your child and you really don't know why that is.

I love how people quote Jenny McCarthy...Last time I checked, I did not accept the medical opinions of a former playboy playmate as gospel. We all can sit and read books and internet articles and listen to what people think happened to their child, but that doesn't make it fact.

Also, Jenny McCarthy's son was re-diagnosed with something else. Kid has something going on, but it isn't autism.

Also, Jenny McCarthy's son was re-diagnosed with something else. Kid has something going on, but it isn't autism.

Would you care to reference that or are you going by something you heard?

3 kinds of people are at fault here: the researchers who use fradulent results, celebrities who push their opinions as medical facts, and people who believe celebrities' "medical" opinions. They may not take the blame equally, but all are still to be blamed for hurting children.

They may not take the blame equally, but all are still to be blamed for hurting children.

Hurting children? Who?

Jenny's child, Evan, is autistic. And I don't have to read some medical journal to know what I live with everyday and what I see with my own eyes. Ask parents all over the country or the world for that matter. People push these children off as if autism is something to live with and that's that. Truth is, there are other options. And I see the option of biomedical treatment work on my brother every day. It seriously makes me sick to read all of these comments where people who know NOTHING about autism can sit here and tell me what I do and don't see on a daily basis. If you want the truth about autism read a book or an article or ask someone with an autistic child what they deal with everyday. Until then, you should not speak of what you do not know.

Not getting vaccinated is endangering everyone. Vaccine/Autism correlation is superstition. I'll bet every kid developed sypmtoms shortly after drinking water. There is not enough mercury in vaccinations to cause elevated levels in a body. Autism cases still increased after California banned mercury preservitives. Hunt another witch to blame for the problem.

@Robert-1126350

Here you go: a simple google search would have given you this and many other results: 

Seriously, what you don't get is the fact that there may not be super high levels of mercury in shots. You're correct, there are small amounts for preservation purposes. BUT, the body of an autistic child can't process the mercury and get it out of the system like a healthy body would. Which means, over time, a child gets more mercury in their system due to the shots that are required. That mercury builds up because the child's immune system doesn't work right. So, this mercury thing, for some kids is more of something that builds up over time- for many years you may not have a clue anything's wrong- until it overloads the body and then the childs attention span, eye contact, and communication skills are compromised.

Seriously, what you don't get is the fact that there may not be super high levels of mercury in shots. You're correct, there are small amounts for preservation purposes.

Please update your info. and stop using this outdated scare tactic. NO MERCURY EXISTS IN ANY VACCINES SINCE 1999 except one type of flu vaccine.

@Ali - so you are admitting the vaccines do not cause autism? The child was autistic prior to any vaccinations, just not exhibiting any symptoms. Sounds like a genetic problem, and not something caused by vaccinations.

I should add, an 'underlying' genetic problem.

lets boot you out instead...if ANYONE here thinks Big Pharma gives a sheeeit about their health, you are as batman used to say, a "poor, deluded, child"

van-1120261

get him for treason...

he is indirectly killing American.

actually get him for genocide. he indirectly killed children all over.

Does it really qualify as genocide when he and Jenny_McCarthy are merely advocating to gullible and stupid people to self-selectively remove their children from the genepool?

Nah, there are enough sue happy people in the world, take them to court for fraud, malpractice, and criminal negligence.

no what's disgusting and immoral is when people deny there's an autism crisis or cover up the fact attributing it to so called "better diagnosing"...CDC reports that 1 in 70 boys in the United States is dxed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Autism clusters have reported in parts of California and in Minneapolis, Minnesota where 1 in 28 US born Somali children have been dxed with severe autism and still no answers from the CDC.

Silence and denial on this issue hurts kids!

1 in 70 boys dxed with autism, a 600% increase in autism over the last 20 years... so, where's the outcry?

Why do people care more about the flu than the autism crisis? One's recoverable, the others is lifelong. Why?

They didn't even show that any information was doctored! They just took statements from another doctor that's on pharma's payroll and published it as fact. This article presents nothing! No proof of fraud! No reason to even assume fraud to start with. It's the same reason Wakefield's study was removed in Britain, because Britain's medical board is made up of Pharma employees. When your company stands to profit by hurting Wakefield you're going to do all you can to ruin him.

Keith

The information showed a difference between what Wakefield claims was the medical history of the children in the study and the actual medical history of the children in BOTH the hospital records and personal physician records for the children. How is that NOT fraud? How can you say that all 12 children had NO SIGNS of mental challenges prior to receipt of the vaccine when there are MULTIPLE records for 5 of the children ALREADY being diagnosed with developmental delays BEFORE the vaccine was given?

Do you get the feeling that in the past people are ashamed to have someone in the family labeled mentally diordered? Today, it is more acceptable, hence cue rise in statistics.

Why do people care more about the flu than the autism crisis? One's recoverable, the others is lifelong. Why?

30,000 people die of the flu every year in the US, and no one knows how many in the entire world. That might be why people care about the flu. Some of us think that people dying is serious business.

Autism clusters have reported in parts of California and in Minneapolis, Minnesota where 1 in 28 US born Somali children have been dxed with severe autism and still no answers from the CDC.

Silence and denial on this issue hurts kids!

That's because the CDC doesn't know what causes autism. Although we can be reasonably sure that vaccines do not cause autism, we still don't know what the actual cause is. By "we", I mean rational people, not the angry nutjobs who are convinced that two things happened one after the other means that they must be related in all cases. The bottom line is, vaccines do not cause autism. Using your own statistics, we know that 69 out of 70 kids are fine.

The simple fact that there are geographical autism clusters means that it cannot be vaccines. Almost every kid gets vaccinated. Therefore, if there was a relationship between vaccines and autism, then autism should be evenly distributed throughout the population. The simple fact that there are geographical autistic clusters means that it can't be vaccine related.

The interesting thing is that there is a higher case of incidence of children being not vaccinated properly, and there is a rise in autism. It is as reasonable to argue that the lack of vaccination is what causes the rise in autism.

30,000 people die of the flu every year in the US

That is actually misleading. According to your own source, the CDC states the following:

The 36,000 estimate was presented in a 2003 study by CDC scientists published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), using similar statistical modeling techniques, but only refers to a period from 1990-91 through 1998-99. During those years, the number of estimated deaths ranged from 17,000 to 52,000, with an average of about 36,000. The JAMA study also looked at seasonal influenza-associated deaths over a 23 year period, from 1976-1977 and 1998-1999. During that period, estimates of respiratory and circulatory influenza-associated deaths ranged from about 5,000 to about 52,000, with an average of about 25,000. While the 36,000 number is often cited, it’s important to note that during that decade, most of the seasons were influenza A (H3N2) prominent and H3N2 influenza viruses are typically associated with higher deaths rates. CDC believes that the range of deaths over the past 31 years (~3,000 to ~49,000) is a more accurate representation of the unpredictability and variability of flu-associated deaths.

If the science of the study is s#$! don't trust it but please do not say it was from big business keith, (by the way Wakefield was funded by the anti vaccine movement). This reminds me of the first "viable" discovery of cold fusion... and why the FDA uses extremely large and mostly random groups of people for clinical trials.

Ali:

Within the last 20 years or so of my life that I have been on this planet. All I can say is, so what. There are greater tragdegies, like having a child winding up in the states care, due to a lack of comprehensive data and studies done on such a condition.

If I remember correctly in the earlier part of the 20th century it was seen as the mother's fault. It has gotten better since then.

But up until like the 80's or so if you feel below "society's norms" in behavoir parents were ashamed of these children and either kept them in the dark in secret or sent them off to an insitution for most of their life.

There were a number of other studies by toxicologists that weren't doctored, interesting this is the only one mentioned. Selective disinformation, cherry-picking in short with plausible deniability built in. Statistical science isn't science, but insurance. Anecdotes are real events that happen to real people, deaths, illness and so on ignored because they don't support the statistical bias being sought.

Doctors who go against standard lies are smeared or eliminated. Welcome to the brave new world, or is it 1984?

http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/UpdatedDeadScientists.html

How is it that a "study" of 12 children made it into a medical journal? Really 12??

I deeply respect your ability to seek the truth rather than blindly follow those who happen to have a convenient (though false) reason for Autism. It has always seemed like mothers of autistic children act like they have mad cow disease with a tendency to grasp for any and every reason for the disease, no matter how illogical or false. It's as if they are all scientists and have put it all tot he test and have some kind of facts.. it all reminds me of religion... people desperate to feel like a member of some kind of group, to fit in and be smiled at. These mothers had nothing else to hold on to so when Jenny McCarthy stepped up as one of those with Mad Cow Disease, mothers across the world (who also likely have subscriptions to every movie star stalker magazine out there) stepped up the scream with her.... I feel sorry for them in a way, but many diseases yet to have a good explanaition for there appearance and autism is no different at this point.

Look, mothers,... the world is not out to get you and everything will be O.K.

Just start using your brains right away, Mad Cow Disease can show up anytime.

You did the right thing and your child will ultimately be better protected because you got the child vaccinated. You are not the cause of the autistic spectrum diagnosis and you are not at fault.

Ali

Did your brother eat tuna or any other large fish or fish product at any point prior to the vaccine? The amount of mercury in a standard serving of tuna is greater than the amount in a single dose of MMR vaccine. Did he ever have his temperature taken using an old style mercury thermometer? Another source of mercury.

Truth be told, just like ANY medicine, there are people who would have a bad reaction to vaccines. Your brother suffered an adverse reaction due to a genetic predisposition for autism. If the mercury was the major culprit, it was only a matter of time before tuna would have triggered the autism, yet I don't see people saying tuna fish causes autism. That a vaccine can contribute to autism is possible, maybe even probable in some cases, but that is a far cry from saying a vaccine causes autism.

You can't think of any other sources of mercury? How about seafood?

But I still don't believe there's a link, as food is more tightly controlled now than it was decades ago, and autism is still here.

Most childrens vaccines these days do NOT contain any mercury, or thimerosal (the specific organomercurial that is found in adult vaccines.) Flu vaccines are the exception, though I can tell you this and last year both were available without it upon request.

Also, thimerosal has been used since the 1930's so it seems as though autism would have been an issue long ago if there was a direct correlation. I also find it odd that despite the many studies performed (as recently as 1999), none have found a causal link between the two.

Hahaha. My brother does not eat fish. My brother has not had a mercury thermometer, come on we're in the modern age of digital. People do have bad reactions to vaccines, which include a fever or not feeling well. An adverse reaction does not take the life from a child. It does not take away the communication skills and the attention of a child. Genetics play a part in a way, as I've stated in every post. But tell me, what caused that sudden change. Not fish, not a mercury thermometer. The shot triggered it. Honestly, society relies way too much on what they hear and read. You read one article of one study that went wrong that had like what 12 kids? I don't need a study gone bad to tell me what I see on a daily basis and I also don't need someone who doesn't know the situation telling me that I'm wrong.

And you're ignorant to think vaccines do not contain mercury. They do. In fact, they contain an amount that isn't right for the size of a baby or small child. Vaccines are one size fits all, there's a problem right there. More vaccines are given when you take your child into the doctor now than there ever has been, there's another problem.

You can think what you want about the issue, but you're quite the arrogant person to sit here and tell me what I think and believe isn't correct when I've lived it every day for 13 years.

Actually Ali, vaccines are not one size fits all. Most children's vaccines do not contain mercury because they are single dose vials while most adult vaccines DO contain mercury because they are multi-dose vials (the mercury is only in the preservative needed to prevent bacterial growth as the vaccine is exposed to air through the repeated puncture of the cap).

As for the results of an "adverse" reaction, not only can it take "the life from" a child, it can take the child's life literally (see the recent case where a family was recompensed as a result of a seizure that killed the child due to a bad reaction to a vaccine). You claim he had sensitivity to mercury, so be it...as I stated earlier, that was a time-bomb waiting to go off (again, the amount of mercury in a dose of MMR is far exceeded by that typically found in a single serving of tuna). It is ENTIRELY possible his reaction to mercury would kill/damage brain cells or otherwise effect brain chemistry to such an extent as to bring on autistic-style disabilities. This is no different than a person with a peanut allergy having an attack and suffering brain damage. This doesn't mean peanuts cause brain damage anymore than vaccines cause autism...EXCEPT in SPECIFIC cases. Perhaps the shot DID trigger it in your brother, but that does not make the MMR vaccine the CAUSE of his autism, rather his genetic susceptability to mercury was the cause and the vaccine was the trigger. Again to the peanut comparison, the peanut is not the cause of the brain damage, but rather the peanut ALLERGY is the cause and the peanut is the trigger.

Adult vaccines contain mercury compounds. For the last ten years, children's vaccines have been virtually free of mercury. Prior to this, there were very few that did and they were in very low levels. Children also do NOT receive adult doses for most vaccines, ask your pediatrician about this (usually given at half dose until they are a certain age.) This is a FACT, not a guess or speculation like you seem to think. I can appreciate your frustration but resorting to name calling and providing information that is simply wrong doesn't really advance the discussion.

While there may be a link in your family between the vaccinations and the resulting diagnosis of autism (though forgive me if I am skeptical), it can be said with near certainty that mercury compounds are not the culprit. I can even appreciate the fact that children seem to get a huge amount of shots before they turn one, I was very surprised that my son was getting two shots per visit sometimes. It was quite startling and coupled with the hyper mania about the subject at the time I did a lot more than reading one study, or one book by Jenny McCarthy. Sorry if the conclusion I reached is not the same as yours, but again there is no need to be offensive about it. If you have any studies that show a causal link between mercury and autism that come from non homeopathic doctors who specialize in this type of medicine I would love to read it or be pointed in the right direction.

In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, here are the fillers:

aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphate,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells

From mercola.com

You can find out what is any vaccine easily online

The funny thing is, if Ali's brother had super-high levels of mercury in his blood, then we already know that it couldn't have come from the vaccines because the amount of mercury he would get from the vaccines, collectively, is tiny.

It is possible he got brain damage from super-high level of mercury. That would be a reasonable assumption. Fortunately, though, he also got vaccines and that will help protect him from further diseases. It would have been a worse tragedy if Ali's brother had autism AND suffered from measles, or the like.

@Alykatma

Your Dr. Mercola sounds like a nut case. 

@Alykatma
That list is the components that go into the production of vaccines, not a list of what is in the final vaccines. Most of those components (especially the full cells) are broken down and purified out of the final product. Almost all of them are present in the final vaccines only minute concentrations if at all.

Just to address the most obvious red herrings:

thimerosal: removed from childhood vaccines in 2002

phenoxyethanol: is not the same as anti-freeze, which is ethylene or propylene glycol. It's actually an antibacterial that's also a component of a lot of skin creams and sunscreens.

polysorbate 20 and 80: these are just nontoxic emulsifiers used to help keep the other components in solution, they are also found in shampoos and toothpaste.

neomycin: an antibiotic which is present in tiny amounts, it's only listed on the ingredients list for people that are allergic

potassium monophosphate/diphosphate: these are just salts, in aqueous solution they are just potassium (you know the good stuff in bananas) ions and phosphate (an essential building block of numerous biological molecules) ions. This stuff is already floating around all over the place in everyone's body.

sucrose: also known as table sugar

I know biology and chemistry seem hard and complex, but these big words are really not all that scary if you understand what they mean.

What you people aren't processing is that a child with high mercury levels has it there because his body can't process it, much like how you can't process the fact that there could be other reasons for autism. Every person could have mercury from a shot, or from seafood in your system at a given time. It's not dangerous for most people because our bodies are healthy and can process it.

For those children who were given vaccines, BEFORE MERCURY WAS LOWERED OR ELIMINATED from vaccines, the mercury build up was from the multiple shots they were given that were required.

And as "Alykatma" provided a list of the fillers in vaccines, you want to tell me that that's safe for any reason? Mercury aside, you're saying that you want that injected into your body. Sorry, most would be sickened by that list.

And my brother was given all of his shots, so no he won't be suffering from measles anytime soon. But what most of you don't realize that there are more and more children not getting certain vaccines and guess what THEY'RE FINE. The more you chose to give medicine or vaccine to a body with no logical sense of danger for getting the disease is ridiculous. That's why the more antibiotics you get for a certain problem you may have could eventually decrease your bodies response to fighting off the problem on it's own. Same for children who have a decreased immune system and are given shots. It wears their body down. Their body can't fight for them like a healthy body would. You can't tell me that I haven't seen the test results. I mean seriously, when you go into a DAN! doctor (defeat autism now) they first run a number of tests. Including urine, stool, blood, hair. This is to check for the harmful things in this childs body. I've seen the results first hand that states a high level of mercury was in my brother's body. (now, don't start with the whole seafood thing. He doesn't eat seafood.)

I'm not telling anyone what to believe, because I've made my own mind based on experience and research. I would just love it if more people would be open minded to the fact that genetics are NOT the only reason for autism. That doesn't mean you have to think vaccines are a cause. But there are other environmental concerns. There are ways to help these children, no matter what their cause of autism was. That's the only thing I wish people would really see.

I understand your anger. But thousands upon thousands of mothers are not wrong. I"m one of them who has a child with autism, and know the frustration you face everyday. Someone has to be the fallguy for the pharmacutical companys mistakes.

hmb... thousands of moms are not wrong? in a world with billions, soon to be 7 billion? intersting. and theres no such thing as the KKK, either, out for their witch hunts

What you aren't processing Ali is that the DAN! doctors you trust so much don't have any scientific studies (real controlled studies rather than testimonials or anecdotes) backing up any of their claims or treatments. Case studies do not provide sufficient evidence that a particular treatment works. This is especially true for autism, because it's presentation can change dramatically just from the child changing as they grow up (up to 30% of diagnosed autism cases will resolve on their own as the child develops).

Furthermore, the tests you say were done on your brother were likely done in such a way that ANY individual would display high mercury levels. The most common is a provoked mercury test, where a chelating agent (which binds to mercury and allows in to be excreted) is given to the patient before the urine sample is collected. Because everyone has some amount of mercury in their tissues, this produces a large amount of mercury in the urine. The sample is usually then compared to an unprovoked control (thus not a valid comparison), which guarantees that the patient sample will have higher mercury levels.

As far as the ingredient list, as I stated before, most of those components are broken down and purified out of the final product. Stating that these are in vaccines is the equivalent of stating that your smoothie has a blender in it, your cookies have an electric mixer in them, or that your glass of milk has a whole cow in it.

Ali,

Please read on thimerosal:

#t1

Not sure if the link goes exactly to the spot, but look at Table 1. See how many vaccinations had very little traces and now no longer have or NEVER had thimerosal.

If someone has too much mercury and can't get it out of their body, then that tells me it isn't autism, it's something else. There is mercury poisoning and other mercury-related diseases. Perhaps your brother should get a second or third opinion.

Also, thermometers/thermostats, light bulbs, fish and vaccinations are not the only places for mercury. Your brother having high levels of mercury, I thought you would have researched this or your doctors would have given you more insight....many of our processed foods contain traces such as high-fructose corn syrup. That's in a lot of sodas. Kids are drinking more pop nowadays. Google "foods that contain mercury". Granted, I wouldn't trust all the sources to be 100% fact (as one time I found a site that blamed milk for everything). It does make you think though.

Ali, if it is true that children with autism can't process mercury, then it is also true that the shots didn't cause that condition. If a person has a defect in how their body transports organic and inorganic metals then they will absolutely run into this problem with or without thimerisol. We get mercury, lead, zinc, iron, manganese, aluminum, magnesium, etc from our diets and environment. Many are required nutrients, but in the wrong places in the body and in the wrong concentrations they are all toxic. So someone who has a defect in how their body processes and transports metals will invariably suffer disease due to toxic metal accumulation.

The vaccines have nothing to do with it. Again - all the vaccines combined do not contain enough mercury, even if all of it were concentrated in one spot in the brain (which is highly unlikely especially if there is a defect in transport). If autism is caused by a defect in mercury transport, then the mercury is coming from everywhere and the child was in trouble from the start since his body can't handle normal environmental mercury levels. I however, cannot begin to think of what could go wrong to cause this. Certainly genes involved in metal transport have been studied and no markers have been found. I also wonder why it doesn't kill the sufferer as this buildup would continue into adulthood to a point where it would affect the entire body not just the developing brain. Vision would suffer, muscle development would suffer, the heart would suffer, etc. We don't see this.

oops, didn't notice the link wasn't copied right...

www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodBaccines/SafetyAvailabilty/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1

OK, I'm an RN (master's level) with 25+ years experience in primary care and pediatrics. In addition to the above, I have a special interest in public health, preventative medicine, and an emerging field of medicine called Children's Environmental Health.

I am a parent of two grade school children, who I vaccinated (no TCVs or HepB at birth though. I do not have a child with autism. I am not anti-vaccine (at all), but I do have several concerns about vaccine safety.

HERE ARE THE FACTS - I

Methylmercury (tuna, etc.) and ethylmercury (thimerosal) are both mercury-containing organic compounds (organomercurials). Like all organomercurials, both methylmercury and ethylmercury are dangerous and potent neurodevelopmental toxicants.

Parents should be concerned about perinatal exposure to both methylmercury (tuna, etc.) and ethylmercury (most vaccines from ~1990-2000, and the majority of the flu vaccine supply TODAY), and to -all- neurodevelopmental toxicants.

HERE ARE THE FACTS - II

"Lead and mercury are both highly toxic to the developing brain and nervous system. Excessive exposure can begin in the intrauterine period, leading to adverse effects at birth. Prenatal exposure is more common with mercury."

"All forms of mercury are quite toxic, and each form exhibits different health effects."

"Mercury in all of its forms is toxic to the fetus and children, and efforts should be made to reduce exposure to the extent possible to pregnant women and children as well as the general population."

"Mercury is a neurotoxic agent that is particularly harmful to the developing nervous system."

"Mercury exists in several forms. First is the volatile elemental form, which is liquid at room temperature (thermometers). A second form is inorganic compounds, such as mercury salts. Third is organic compounds, such as methyl mercury, ethyl mercury, and phenyl mercuric acetate. The organic forms of mercury are the most hazardous to humans because they are the most readily absorbed by the body and have the greatest uptake into the central nervous system."

There are zero medical scientists who actually study the etiology of autism (such as the multi-disciplinary team assembled at the University of California MIND Institute) who believe that vaccines are the sole cause of autism. No one believes that. The etiology of autism is undoubtedly complex and multi-factorial. The hypothesis is: Can vaccines contribute to the cause of some cases of autism? That hypothesis has not been proved nor disproved.

#toxicology

It is thought that vaccination is generally well tolerated by the vast majority of the pediatric population. But can vaccination -especially under the post-1980/90 CDC "recommended immunization schedule"- contribute to the cause of autism or other neurodevelopmental delays/disorders in a subset of the pediatric population who is genetically susceptible. That hypothesis has also not been answered. Indeed, investigations have barely begun.

However several major NIH/NIEHS funded studies are underway -such as the CHARGE study (Childhood Autism Risks from Genetics and the Environment). The EARLI study (Early Autism Risk Longitudinal Investigation). And the National Children's Study (NCS).

Vaccination is one of the key variables being investigated in all of these studies.

Ali, I'm trusting what you type to be true, however if you're wrong my trust of a very simplifed and cut/paste understanding of Autism, you will have just fallen to the rest of the majority of beliving everything they read without questioning the source and looking into many other sources and qualifications.

(Sarcasm)

Personal expierence might help you in persuading other people.

However this is scientific and analytical results over years of time.

As far as I know a vaccine's benefits outweighs the cost.

Oh but who are we to determine the cost of a persons body and development.

If anything that's a lot of Burden of Proof to collect, to prove otherwise. Happy Hunting.

HERE ARE THE FACTS - IV

About 4 million children are born in the US every year. For over a decade (~1990 to 2000), approximately 40+ million newborns were injected with 12.5 mcg of ethylmercury on their date of birth from administration of the thimerosal ­containing Hep B vaccine (regardless of their birth weight, including preterm neonates). These same infants were then injected with between 50 to 62.5 mcg of ethylmercury on a single day at their 2, 4, and 6 month "well visits" from thimerosal­ containing pediatric vaccines (TCVs). Then, these infants were injected with 50 mcg of ethylmercury at 15 to 18 months. This is total exposure of 237.5 mcg of ethylmercury via IM or SQ injection for a child who at best weighs 10 kg.

While vaccination is generally well tolerated by the vast majority of children, these may have been highly relevant bolus doses of ethyl mercury for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of those infants. Hence the concern of the medical scientists and autism experts at the University of California MIND Institute. Hence, their rather audacious --and still current-- statement to the public:

"The University of California MIND Institute supports the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines, and encourages parents to specifically request that the vaccines given to their children be thimerosal free."

Today, TCV's are -still- being used. Since 1996, the flu shot has been officially recommended by the CDC for administration into pregnant women and 6+ month old infants. Since the vast majority of the flu vaccine supply in those years contained thimerosal (I can provide links), one has to ask how many infants and how many fetuses (via maternal flu vaccines) have been exposed to thimerosal -a potent neurodevelopmental toxicant- over the last 4-5 years? Hundreds of thousands? A million? 4 million? More?

I provided 4 to 6 references with links to all of my posts above? Why did they not post? Anyone know?

WHAT is THE CAUSE AUTISM?

There is no single sentence answer to that question because it is increasingly believed that there are different 'kinds' of autism (even within the DSM-IV "autistic disorder" 299.00 diagnosis) with different and probably multiple causes. It is increasingly believed that full-dignosis autism is certainly not soley a genetic disorder (as was thought by some in the past). Autism is best defined as an environmental disease with genetic susceptibilities.

Genetics load the Gun. Environment pulls the Trigger.

WHAT is THE CAUSE of AUTISM? II

-------------------

“Do Toxins Cause Autism?”

NY Times.

February 24, 2010

By Nicholas D. Kristof

“Autism was first identified in 1943 in an obscure medical journal. Since then it has become a frighteningly common affliction, with the CDC reporting recently that ASDs now affect almost 1 % of all children in the United States.

Yet they constitute a huge national health burden, and suspicions are growing that one culprit may be chemicals in the environment. An article in a forthcoming issue of a peer-reviewed medical journal, Current Opinion in Pediatrics, makes this explicit.”

[Landrigan PJ. “What causes autism? Exploring the environmental contribution.” Curr Opin Pediatr. 2010 Apr;22(2):219-25.]

“The article [states] that the ‘likelihood is high’ that many chemicals ‘have potential to cause injury to the developing brain and to produce neurodevelopmental disorders.’”

“It adds that the “likelihood is high” that many chemicals “have potential to cause injury to the developing brain and to produce neurodevelopmental disorders.” ”

The author is not a granola-munching crank but Dr. Philip J. Landrigan, professor of pediatrics at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York and chairman of the school’s department of preventive medicine. While his article is full of cautionary language, Dr. Landrigan told me that he is increasingly confident that autism and other ailments are, in part, the result of the impact of environmental chemicals on the brain as it is being formed.

“The crux of this is brain development,” he said. “If babies are exposed in the womb or shortly after birth to chemicals that interfere with brain development, the consequences last a lifetime.”

Concern about toxins in the environment used to be a fringe view. But alarm has moved into the medical mainstream. Toxicologists, endocrinologists and oncologists seem to be the most concerned.”

Kelly, I think you are out of line here. I used to work with child psychiatrists and they long ago abandoned the bad mommy theory of autistic development. It is a brain thing and not the result of either vaccines or ineffective parenting. Yes, some parents do not work well with autistic children but in no way are they responsible for their children's retreat from the world.

Kelly, I'm sorry your family is going through that, but you can't reach for "easy" answers--especially ones that have already been discredited.

I hear you, Kelly. I have two children on the spectrum. Why? Because I, myself, am on the spectrum. I just went undiagnosed until my daughter was diagnosed and it became obvious where it came from. The upside of it is that my children do not have to suffer what I suffered most of my life. They have gotten services from early on and they live with parents who accept them for who they are. We don't treat autism like it's the end of the world or a disease. It's just is. I am not running around looking for cures for my kids. I am looking to help them function in a neuro-typical world. Being autistic myself, I am not looking to "fix" either one of them. I see that a LOT from neuro-typical parents......this desperate need to "fix" their "broken" child.

Karen and AP, I think you missed Kelly's point, which seemed to be that she suspects a possible genetic link given the variety of other kinds of neurological and psychological disorders present in her family. If family members on both sides exhibit such disorders, it is not illogical for Kelly to wonder if her children's autism has a genetic cause.

The harder question is why incidences of autism have risen so sharply, though it is clear that it is easier now to recognize the disorder (many people went undiagnosed for years, if not their entire lives). And bad science is bad science -- the link between autism and the MMR vaccine was always suspect. Vaccines have been a great benefit to our society; they have saved people's lives. Of course, not every treatment works 100% of the time, and some people will always have bad reactions to medicine, but vaccines work for the common good. That really cannot be denied.

My cousin's oldest son was diagnosed with mild autism. So thinking it had to be the vaccines, they chose NOT to vaccinate their 2nd son. His autism was more severe than their first. They chose to vaccinate their 3rd child, a girl, and she is fine. Rory, not only is he a beautiful child, is a handful. With a lot of behavioral theray, Connor, the oldest, is doing well.

I don't know if they will ever find the cause. Or if we would ever find a way to prevent it. But these families do need access to care. Most insurances limit or don't cover behavioral therapy. This is where the focus needs to be and not to continue to blame vaccines that had nothing to do with it.

I will confess I know very little about Autism. Never had anyone in my family with it. But I like Karens correlation about her family history and her childrens autism. It could be that like certain types of Cancers, alcoholism and drug abuse even epilepsy, while not necessarily hereditary, autism could run in families. There are certain Emotional problems, Bi Polar, Schitzophrenia, that can also run in families. Perhaps Autism could be listed as well

SO- for those families who have an autistic child, with no family history of autism, bipolar, add, adhd, mood disorders, etc. etc. What's your reasoning then?

And again, for those who talk about it running in families, YOU ARE CORRECT. No one is trying to take that away from you. It can run in families. But many definitions are calling autism a mixture between genetics and the envrionment now, where as before it was all based off genetics. And like I asked before, what's your reasoning for there being absolutely no family history of a disorder like this?

Ali - if autism is a recessive trait, i.e. both parents need to have the gene to pass it along to the child, and the parent would not necessarily have the disorder...my son was diagnosed aobut 4 years ago on the spectrum, and no one in the family had been diagnosed BUT once we had a diagnosis, I started to recognize similiar behaviors in other family members...it is not that the disorder was not there, it just may not have been diagnosed or labeled as such...and there are people who get illness in which there is no family history...sometimes things just happen, and there are not clear explanations...

Ali-

Even in DNA replication the DNA Polymerase can cause accidental deletions, skips, over-endowing, and mix-up of nucleotides, which could possibly mix up the processing of Amino Acids for protein production ( if I rember correctly).

So it is possible to have no history in your family of conditions (although not typical) just from a few misplaced,missing,mixed up and over-endowed area of the Chromosome.

While other conditions like Hodgkins, Cystic Fibrosis follow the Dominant-Dominant, recessive-recessive path of transmission.

I'm glad I took a class on Genetics in high school.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sleep disturbances and sensory issues may be noted in the first year. Despite early signs, children with ASD often do not come to medical attention until after the second year when language delays are obvious.

(most vaccinations aren't given until the second or third year)

"Recent analyses indicate that the “autism epidemic” does not reflect a true increase in the incidence of ASD, but is attributable to increased awareness by both the public and professionals, leading to more complete case finding together with broadening of the diagnostic criteria [Gernsbacher et al 2005, Fombonne et al 2006, Shattuck 2006, Taylor 2006, Atladottir et al 2007]."

"Seizures develop in approximately 25% of children with autism. In addition, the rate of electroencephalographic abnormalities is increased in children with autism who do not have a history of seizures [Kim et al 2006, Spence & Schneider 2009]."

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1442/

And not all at once either. Space them out, and never get them when child has been sick, could be a factor in why some children have reactions and others dont

Ha ha ha ha! Too funny, and too true!

Yeah everyone that smokes crack doesn't die either genius. Everyone that falls off a bike doesn't break their leg. Everyone that sneezes doesn't accidentally fart as well... Get it yet?

does everyone in America have a milk, wheat or peanut allergy? Is every one in America bald? have big feet? some yes, not all... it's called human variation.

The same idea of variation applies to our immune systems and how an individuals immune system respond to various triggers in the environment.
Some people can tolerate things that others cannot.

everybody hasn't recieved the same vaccines in 1983 a child got 24 shots now its 71 it may not b the mmr shot mayb its the amt of vaccines in the timeframe how can ppl automatically say these parents are idiots for looking into it or even believing vaccines are the cause until you see your child change after the vaccines you can't comment. you want facts here goes one The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has ruled that the death of Elias Tembenis, son of Harry and Gina Tembenis, board members of the National Autism Association, was a DTaP vaccine injury.proving that Elias’s December 26, 2000 DTaP vaccination was a legal cause of his epilepsy and death." it happens more than you know but it isnt publicised please stop following blindly because someone like the govt ,fda, or doc say its safe how many time are drugs recalled there is no connection between vaccine and autism sure ok but there is some conflict of interest why is the american academy pediatrics pushing vacc because they get moneywhen they endorse vacc

Yes, most of us have had the MMR series of vaccines. But what children experience today is quite different from what we experienced - MANY vaccines at the same time. We were never vaccinated for chickenpox, hepatitis or cervical cancer, for instance. And there are still toxins like formaldehyde and other preservatives in these vaccines. The same parents who will conscientiously not allow anyone to hold their newborn baby without first washing their hands will permit FIVE vaccinations of the same newborn infant.

We should follow the example of Japan. When Japan (a highly educated nation with an extremely effective public health system) changed (not eliminated) the mandatory vaccination schedule to BEGIN when a child turns 2 years old the immediate result was that their nation's SIDS cases almost disappeared. And no infant MMR epidemic resulted from this delayed schedule, either.

Well, as you already know vaccines contain high doses of mercury, and I later discovered that my son was allergic to mercury! If I would have known this before, i could have avoided having my child bombarded with all those vaccines, but then again that did not promise that he was not going to be diagnosed autistic at the age of 2..It may now seem stupid, but it made sense to me then...

Jenn- that was epilepsy not autism. No one has said some children arent allergic and could have a bad reaction to ANY medication or drug. This child had an allergic reaction, same as some kids have allergic reactions to peanuts or shellfish.

Woman, there is no mercury in 99% of all childhood vaccines and there hasnt been in 10 years.

Tina1970...I wish i was as simple as you are. Stupid people are the happiest.

Jenn

Epilepsy/seizures are a known, albeit rare, side effect of the DTaP vaccine. The court simply ruled that, yes, in fact the vaccine was the trigger for the seizure/epilepsy that took the boy's life. This does NOT prove that the DTaP vaccine is unsafe or the cause of epilepsy/seizures in any other cases wherein epilepsy devolped after vaccination. It applies ONLY to ONE PARTICULAR case.

OhJoy...you missed two VERY crucial pieces of information about your Japan analogy. First, Japanese vaccination was (and still is) 100% mandatory. There are NO exceptions. There is no opting out for personal or religious reasons. This means 100% of the population is vaccinated giving any form of epidemic a very, very small percentage of viable hosts. This means by changing the ages, you are NOT raising a potential threat because the population has already been innoculated to the threat. Its the same reason why immigrants to the US from countries that still suffer occasional polio outbreaks need not be vaccinated, the general population of the US is already innoculated to the disease.

Second, Japan has one of the slowest growing populations of any advanced nation because of low birth rate and minimal immigration. This, again, goes towards a small population of hosts for any sort of epidemic vs. an innoculated population. This is NOT the case at ALL in the US where potential epidemics cross the borders by the hundreds daily.

There are other studies out there, not just this one, But it is tough to fight big business.

Well, as you already know vaccines contain high doses of mercury, and I later discovered that my son was allergic to mercury!

Your son is not alone. Every single human being is allergic to mercury. Mercury is a poison. That is why vaccines do not, actually, contain high doses of mercury. Vaccines contain very low doses of mercury.

Sorry to inform you but I am NOT a stupid idiot!

Have you EVER given thought to the fact that some kids bodies are able to break down the vaccines (many given at one time) while others are unable to break it down or unable to break it down completely?

I don't "run" with every theory. I look at all the evidence and take it all (I was going to say with a grain of salt but...) with a box of salt. I spend at least two days a month doing nothing but research to see what or if there is any new studies out. Guess what? None have been done. All I have found is comments on previous studies. All I am asking is that our researchers, research. They need to look into the vaccines with the notion that maybe the child's body just couldn't break down the 6-9 vaccines they got in one trip to the doctor. Instead, what I get is "stupid idiot" or "mad cow". this type of discussion gets these unfortunate kids NOWHERE!

Jenn,

71????? Really? What age range are you going by? Birth to 18?

Wow, Jenn-that's quite the run-on sentence. Pressured speech and flight of ideas can be signs of mental illness...maybe you should have that checked out?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1442/ Awesome stuff on Autism.

Shows Genetic,Metabolic findings in studies of Autistic children and then some.

Also includes different diagnoses that have similar symptoms to that of Autism (ASD).

huh?

I think we need a corn vaccine!

Seriously though, high-fructose corn syrup tastes nasty compared to cane sugar. No amount of re-branding will fool my taste buds.

I stopped drinking soda period, and I am healthier for it. Just green tea sweetened with Stevia and water for me. You do know that Monsano GMO crops are probably contaminated with Roundup pesticides. They are genetically modified to resist the pesticide and what we have now are super weeds that resist roundup. Nature finds a way.

Oh, get over yourself, Cathleen! I imagine you haven't read the original study in Lancet, have you?

What appears to be happening is this:

A medical doctor published a study, whose findings were not popular with the medical establishment which PROFITS HUGELY from the sale of these vaccines.

Anyone who thinks that the medical profession is beyond reproach, or who vilifies a man who bucked the medical establishment, is, in my opinion, putting too much trust in the "herd" mentality.

If you really care about your kids, read the doctor's study, go investigate how the hospital in question established their so-called "findings" which ran counter to the study, and let us all know what you discover.

You throw around phrases like "voo doo science" in an arrogant and know-it-all manner! Who died and appointed you King of all Facts, anyway?

You come across as judgemental and reactionary, Cathleen. Do us all a favor and don't show up for jury duty, if called!

Please share with us the secret of your Omniscience, Cathleen, because we are all just dying to know it.

People who jump on the bandwagon, like you just did; and are quick to vilify others without knowing all the facts are intellectually lazy, and, at worst, they endanger the freedoms of anyone who dares to take a courageous stand!

I am familiar that the so-called study contained only 12 children. That's not what any intelligent person would consider to be an accurate representation of the population. But you go ahead and keep calling me names instead of providing some intelligent conversation.

whose findings were not popular with the medical establishment

It's not that they weren't popular, it's that they couldn't reproduce the experiment to yield the same conclusions. (try reading the article)

Anyone who thinks that the medical profession is beyond reproach, or who vilifies a man who bucked the medical establishment, is, in my opinion, putting too much trust in the "herd" mentality.

Make up your mind. Are you accusing me of thinking the medical profession is beyond reproach, or are you upset that I am criticizing this doctor's practices?

If you really care about your kids, read the doctor's study go investigate...

Really? Investigate who? One doctor's study (that no-one else can duplicate), or the entire AMA? Someone who REALLY cares about their kids would get a second opinion. Instead of calling me names, why don't you print a list of other doctors who agree with this moron!

Who died and appointed you King of all Facts, anyway?

My previous post (#16) contains no facts... just my opinion, which I am entitled to!

Monticello,

This study was done using HOSPITAL medical records showing how he changed patient information to fudge his data. This "doctor" lost his medical license due to the fraud he committed. The original study has been retracted from the Lancet, 11 of the 13 doctors who originally singed off on it have removed their support, the other doctors are Wakefield who was stripped of his medical license and one other dr who is facing similar sanctions.

In addition the reason he did the original study.... to help a lawyer win a lawsuit against a rival vaccine maker. He did the original fraudulent study to help win money. Yes BIG PHARMA FUNDED THE ORIGINAL FAKED STUDY.

All subsequent studies done using scientific methods by doctors and scientists around the world have shown NO link nor could they recreate the results Wakefield claimed to have achieved.

So I would suggest you read this study and see how big pharma tricked thousands of parents to endanger their children by not vaccinating them by paying Wakefield big bucks to manipulate data.

The only bandwagon that was jumped on by intellectually lazy people are those who still think Wakefield's study was valid. Its a fairy tale and fairy tales have no place in modern medicine or science.

As to the profits in vaccines.. there are none. This is why there is a vaccine court in the US. Without the protection that court provides no pharma company could afford to make vaccines for our children. Their liability would be too great.

Wakefield should be prosecuted for any deaths of children related to a parent choosing to no vaccinate based on Wakefields original study. His deliberate manipulation of the study has and continues to endanger millions of children and adults EVERYDAY.

Now Monticello shut up , sit down and actually read this study. and the retraction in the Lancet and the history of this fradulent study before you comment again.

For the record I have 2 children with autism. One who got vaccines with thimerisol and one who got vaccines without. Both exhibited symptoms of autism prior to the vaccinations. Neither was caused by the vaccines.

Monticello

This is more informative than that illegitimate study by Wakefield: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1442/

I stand corrected.

How can an unvaccinated child harm a vaccinated child? If the vaccine protects the child then what exactly are you so worried about? How about stop chastising those that don't want to poison themselves so pharma can get rich.

Vaccines aren't 100% effective the same way condoms or the pill aren't 100% effective. They work on the notion that when enough of the people are vaccinated, the transmission rate is reduced to close to 0. The more people who go unvaccinated, the greater the chance the virus has to take a hold in the population again, allowing it the opportunity to infect the people whose immunity might not be complete or those who are immunocompromised, they are ultimately going to be the first who are negatively impacted by those who do not have immunity.

The more people who go unvaccinated, the greater the chance the virus has to take a hold in the population again, allowing it the opportunity to infect the people whose immunity might not be complete or those who are immunocompromised, they are ultimately going to be the first who are negatively impacted by those who do not have immunity.

...such as pertussis (whooping cough) making a comeback. Diseases can mutate and when that happens the current vaccines would become ineffective against them. That is why vaccination is important and that is why it is concerning even for those who are vaccinated.

Keith children get vaccinated on a schedule.

For example a 2 month old may not have gotten a DTaP vaccine yet and may go to a daycare with a 2yr old whose parents refused vaccination and who has Diphtheria.

Because the 2yr old is not vaccinated and the 2 month old cannot be vaccinated yet the parents of the 2yr old have not only put their own child at risk but also the children of others.

Also while there are simple treatments for illnesses such as the measles, they may be brushed off because symptoms often mimic the flu or the common cold. Also, most Americans are vaccinated or have benefited from the vaccination of others so we don't know the symptoms of these"ancient" illnesses.

While a 5 yr old might be fine after treatment for the mumps a 60 yr old may have severe complications.

There are also children who are too young to be vaccinated but are still susceptible to infection, or those who are allergic to a vaccine component. For example, people allergic to eggs can't have the flu vaccine.

Keith: Several infants died in San Diego in 2010 after being exposed to whooping cough. The DPT vaccine is given in a series of 3 shots over six months, with followup boosters. Until the initial three shots are given an infant is very vulnerable to complications. The MMR vaccine is given when a child is about a year old. Exposure before the vaccinations are given and become effective can lead to deafness and meningitis, and sterility. A pregnant woman can suffer a miscarriage after exposure to mumps and measles, or the child can be born with known associated birth defects. Measles is the leading cause of blindness in children in countries where vaccines are not routine. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. Vaccines have saved countless lives over the last 60 years. To pretend otherwise is just wrong.

Karen,

See my comment at 16.1.

What I've never seen from those that cite Wakefield are all the followup studies that are supposed to find results in line with his. Peer review science is based on the notion that A. Your papers can be reproduced under the same conditions with the same results and B. Followup studies based on the preliminary study further cement the validity of the first study. The laws of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution didn't become the scientifically accepted principals they are based off of one researcher's work, it took hundreds, if not thousands of studies before they could proven almost beyond reproach, which is also why you hear in medical studies "hey eggs are good for you" one year then "eggs are bad for you" the next year then "only eat egg whites", none of these things should be reported on with the degree of authority they are until the next leg of research is done to verify the data.

Exactly, Cher. This is one of the reasons why Wakefield is not allowed to practice medicine in Britain anymore and why he has been unable to get a license here in the US.

Please go to Mercola.Com and search for the Andrew Wakefield interview. You'll take it all back. You have no idea what the"industry" did to this prestigious physician. It's very lengthy but very worth your time.

I love Dr. Mercola. Get his free newsletter and it has changed my life for the better, not 100% but working on it. I would probably be in sad shape if I hadnt found out how cholesterol lowering drugs were damaging me. Big Pharma is out to make money, any way they can. How many drugs have been pulled after years of harming people. Would you trust a study financed by a corporation out to make profits?

ROFL... Mercola.com is a "medical" website that is run by an all-natural supplement selling company. The website is such bogus that its main page has the following warning in a large print banner across the bottom of the page (bold is my addition).

"* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using this product."

This is neither a scientific nor medical website, but rather an advertising pitch that preys on the uninformed, ignorant, and fearful. Over half the web articles reference stories out of tabloid papers like The Daily News and World Weekly. Its amazing how you claim "Would you trust a study financed by a corporation out to make profits?", but use as your proof a website with the main purpose to sell a product.

So it's the medical/drug industry's fault that addicts exist? You do know that there is a black market for prescription drugs, right? Many people who are addicted to drugs did not obtain them legally, or abused the ones they were legitimately prescribed.

That and the studies showing that over half the people going into rehab are for prescription drugs

You mean for abusing prescriptions drugs.

Some doctor had to write that prescription.

Sandy, it's the medical/drug industry's fault that they continually allow this to happen. As the son of an addict, I do blame doctors and the drug industry for allowing this to continually go on. My mother has been "hooked" on prescription meds for over 35 years... She has never obtained them illegally. Many things that I've witnessed her take have been proven to be nothing short of poison (darvocet, oxy, xanax, etc...). The vast majority of this stuff is nothing more than a fraud. Lets face it. With as many protections that the drug companies have because of payouts to politicians, how good are these products.

I've been to a psychiatrist's office with my mother. I asked this person why she was treating my mother for "bi-polar". She gave me her reasoning. I simply asked if she knew that my mother was already taking four different medications, one of which was a pain-killer (I believe it was oxy), and drinking on top of it. I then asked do you think that may be attributing to my mother's problems. The psychiatrist's response, "maybe"... I've been with her to her regular doctor(s) as well and told them she has a problem. They all continue to give her medication. The industry is a fraud! You need to understand something. Drug companies pay doctors to sell there medication. It only amounts to legalized drug dealing.

Since the church is involved, it doesn't surprise me a bit. Organized religion has been pulling shams on people since there was "organized religion". The vast majority of the practice is a fraud.

Do yourself a favor and check out how many nurses in your area are being suspended or having there licenses pulled for drug abuse. I think you'd be surprised. It doesn't surprise me, my mother used to be a nurse.

The sheer fact that you have to sign a waiver (in case of what?) before getting the shot of vaccine is itself a bad sign. If it went the other way I might consider it; doctors, hospitals, etc are persnally responsible if the vaccine has deleterious effects, including reactions of sickness and death, anecdotal or not

Even better if their insurance doesn't cover it and it comes out of their retirement fund. Vaccines woud disappear, because the vast monetary motive will have dried up.

If a doctor writes a prescription for a legitimate drug, and the patient then chooses to abuse that drug, that is the patient's fault, not the doctor's. Hocfish, it was not the doctor's fault that your mother washed down her pills with alcohol; it was her fault. Should they have withheld treatment? Locked her up?

The fact that a medication has a potential to be addictive or sedative does not make it a poison. All drugs have risks, and these must be weighed against the benefits. This requires both the doctor and the PATIENT to assume responsibility for proper use. The doctor cannot go home with the patient and dispense his/her meds.

I'm aware there are problems with drug addiction in the health care field, but this does not make all providers addicts, nor does it mean all drugs are bad. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

That's because these parents are looking for someone else to blame for their kid's misfortune. It's time they quit trying to take money from others to make themselves feel better. There is no guarantee that a child in utero will be born healthy, or even be born alive. Stop seeking attention from the public for your personal problems.

Excuse me bethcat! I am not looking to make money or blame anyone for my child's misfortune. what I am looking for is for the FDA, NIH and all scientists to take a hard look at all possibilities. I am not seeking attention either. what I am seeking is answers for parents of autistic kids and answers for the autistic kid! Don't they deserve answers?

There is no case of autism in my family or that of my husband, yet my son has Asperger Syndrome. I had 4 "normal" pregnancies and yet one son is Asperger w/ A.D.H.D. and another has A.D.H.D. w/ Oppositional Defiant Disorder. All too often, parents blame themselves and try to figure out what they have done wrong. We need to know for our own peace of mind and to benefit future children. Is that too much to ask? Is it more important to know the mating habits of mosquitos?

Is it more important to know the mating habits of mosquitos?

It is if you happen to live in an area where malaria (or any other mosquito-spread disease) is prevalent. But I'm just being silly, because clearly kids in Africa aren't nearly as important as kids in rich countries.

That's a red herring. We have a right to fight for our own children, in our own country. Are they less. How about those who gie birth to kids are required to take care of them. It seems there are a lot of them

According to the WHO, 300 to 500 million people develop malaria and 1.5 to 3 million (mostly children) die each year. That's not even considering yellow fever, dengue fever, west nile virus, or equine encephalitis which are also mosquito-borne. So while you are right that parents should fight for their own kids, to say that research into a diseases that affect and kill far more children than autism is not as important is rather heartless and short-sighted.

Darn right.

Just take what you can find, regardless of any attempt of "you can do better than this". Thank you society for applauding and encouraging mediocrity.

I thought the medical profession was about people who actually CARE about the integrity of the medical field. Looks like what you end up with results has to be right and correct, takes a higher standing than accepting what the results say and STICKING to them, even if they do not turn out as a success.

The scientific process takes a lot of trial and error.

Apparently learning from error is a bad thing.